Because luckily, our world leaders aren't quite that insane.

Indeed, I imagine this would just thrill China; poison N. Korea for who knows how long, fallout into China, removing their only buffer zone on this peninsula.

China isn't particularly thrilled with the North and it's actions, but it serves a purpose... otherwise, 'lil kim likely would have been dealt with by Her some time ago. Even now, limited involvement as China is hoping cooler heads will prevail; after all, other military exercises can continue to be conducted proving to the North that we and the South have superior capabilities.

There really isn't a good reason, given the politically tense climate right now, to conduct these exercises on this particular island area. It's not asking that much not to provoke right now.

Harvey,

I can understand your frustration with a situation like this. But indeed, the reason our leaders need to govern themselves through their intellect and not through raw emotion becomes very clear in times such as these. This situation in Korea is likely one of the most dangerous that currently exists on our planet right now. As much as I don't like pin heads like "Lil' Kim" believing his own rhetoric I also feel that he is exceedingly dangerous. Not because of his words, or his bizarre and crazy threats. But because he has nothing to lose by carrying them out.

Most leaders (I do say most) try and lead from the standpoint of protecting their people and insuring the security of their Nation. (Lil') Kim does not, he could not care any less for those under his heel, and that is made plainly evident by the way they Govern, the way they do not provide basic needs for and the way they continually place their people in Mortal danger. Sure! (Lil') Kim may be able to kill thousands.... However Harvey said it himself, by doing so he would virtually guarantee the destruction of his Nation. IMO, what he would really like to see is one of his taunts set off a situation that brings China and the US toe to toe.

As a Conservative, I will rarely if ever hearken back to a Democrat, But since JFK was a part of what was TRULY the Democratic Party, a respectful and great party of the people, instead of what they have devolved into today, a Bevy of Liberal/Progressive blow-hards hell bent on Socialism... I will do so with a clear conscience.... JFK faced down the Russians during the Cuban Missile crisis through a careful escalation, followed by a clear headed (on both sides) negotiations. The Russian pulled all of their medium/intermediate range Nuclear Missiles out of Cuba, and later we learned that our part of the deal was to remove aging and obsolete Jupiter Nuke Missiles out of Turkey and Italy. This never being admitted during the time, but in fact being true.

Does that mean we backed down?..... No!

Does it mean the Russians backed down?.... again... No!

But what could have happened was unbelievable, we had no idea for a time that Russia had the Missiles there (Cuba), there had already been the blundered "Bay of Pigs" invasion, and the Kennedy Brothers along with Robert Mcnamara were planning another invasion that would have been a bloodbath and touched off a Nuclear war between the USSR and the USA. Clear heads prevailed and with hope and common sense they will again.

The only way we come out of this situation in the Korean Peninsula without touching off a major incident.... is to keep a clear head, and decide is it REALLY that important to fire those shells? Are we just giving (Lil') Kim a new burst of Gas to add to his bag?... I believe in both cases, if we can leave (Lil') Kim looking like a mad Man, shouting and cursing his way through his leadership... we go a long way to having a clear conscience and a clean mandate should (Lil') Kim ever TRULY step over the line and DEMAND through his action our retaliation. But this simple and silly situation is not worth a single human life.... Its just not.

I agree, bellicose rhetoric meet America.

harvey....you just can't go around "nuking" countries no matter how stupid they are. Even though it sounds like a good idea, the outcome would not be good.

Nuking anyone is a bad idea, the radiation could create a nuclear winter that could envelope the entire earth and most definitely harm our allies in Asia as well.

I think you need to read the article closer. China backs them, nucs available. They are one step closer to having nuclear weapons, plus they are China's ally, nucs available.

Damn; has ANYONE been on the vine without having to see these broken english spammers?

I'm pretty sure "NUKE THEM" and "WORLD PEACE" shouldn't be in the same sentence.

I understand Harvey. The frustration runs deep and I'm sure you don't want to kill millions of Innocent men, women, and children. I get frustrated too when all we do is pay North Korea off to quiet them for a while.

I do have to make a solid "nuclear" point though. What should America do if South Korea is hit with a nuclear strike from North Korea? Should we pay them off even more in hopes to encourage them to never nuke again?

If war breaks out between the Koreas, then let's end it swiftly. Political wars can't be won and only costs America money which it doesn't have. All I'm asking is if we commit in going to war with North Korea supporting the South, then let's enter into it with absolute conviction to win the war quickly and decisively.

Why can't America respond to North Korea's threat by stating "We will retaliate by destroying your nuclear facilities should any aggression be taken by North Korea against South Korea." At least we would have a reason to destroy their nuclear facilities in the future since the North Korea hemoroid will flare up again. Can't say we didn't warn them.

DUDE: Good point, I agree.

But, we should have focused on taking out the North a decade ago rather than getting derailed in Iraq. With Sadaam in power, Iran would not have a nuclear program. Two problems solved. Thanks a lot BUSH!

Scientists and engineers should be running our country rather than lawyers and MBAs. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. Time for evidence based decision making.

http://www.sefora.org/

North Korea is an annoying little ankle biter that does not have nearly enough influence to affect "world" peace. Just laugh at the arrogance of that shrimply little dictator and ignore them. Any act of aggression against the US would mean swift annihilation, and they know it.

To "nuke" anything should be a last resort. There are enough conventional bombs to level NK and only send a silicia cloud from the concrete and a little smoke airborne, not an acid rain, hair falling out, funky cloud. When/if the war starts, everything should be pointed straight up Kimmie's a$$.

I sincerely doubt Kim would ever nuke South Korea, even as crazy as he is.

Nukes in this day and age seem to be more of a bargaining chip than an actual weapon. No country would use them because of the threat of global thermonuclear meltdown. ("The only way to win is not to play.")

China wouldn't allow NK to nuke SK because of it's proximity.

Probably because there's innocent civilians living in North Korea who can't be at fault for the actions of their leaders.

Why do people honestly think that firing an ICBM or launching a nuclear warhead at someone is magically going to solve these problems?

It's all posturing at someone else's expense. Kim believes if he doesn't talk and act tough some underling will put a bullet in his head because that's what he or any other NK politician does to gain power. If we really wanted to influence the situation we would pull all of our trade out of China, but heaven keep us from upsetting the apple cart. The world will stop if we don't buy up Chinese goods and the Chinese don't have a large country of economic idiots to push them on.

World trade does have some positives though. If we weren't trade partners with China then our only trade partner in the situation would be S.K, and then by custom we would be obliged to "stand up" for South Korea with some show of force, which nobody really needs to be involved in.

The other odd, but upside: where do you think US manufacturers will be headed toward when the Chinese demand real wages for their labor?

N. Korea

Iraq

Afghanistan

Somalia

Sudan...

MovingOut, "If we really wanted to influence the situation we would pull all of our trade out of China....". Are you serious? We're not far from trading dollars for yaun. China owns us. Walk in any department store and randomly pick ten items. I would almost bet my life that seven of them are "Made in China". If we're gonna threaten China to do something or we'll stop doing business with them, then we better have a helluva contingency plan.

Oh, man. It seems that Kim's been nipping at the Chivas a little bit too much this Holiday Season. Again.

To set the N Korean dictator straight we should publish a strike plan without publishing the priority of the targets or order of their destruction. This is to let them know that we can and will reduce their military and government infrastructureto rubble with a minimum of trouble on our part and without having to invade their broken little kingdom. Our ability to spot their military and pinpoint them to within a few meters should make targeting with GPS missiles and bombs a no-brainer. This could and would be possible within moments of an attack by the north on the south or US assets. As a matter of preparedness it should be an ongoing thing being updated in real time by analysts as we type in our comments. suffice to say that should the north strike a deadly blow then a retaliatory strike has been planned and only awaits the release order from national command authority. The use of nuclear weapons is a LAST RESORT measure and should be used ONLY if it would save the lives of hundreds of thousands of lives. Were we to have invaded Japan at the end of the Second World War it would have cost us upwards of a million troops and many millions of Japanese who were innocent civilians. Thus the use of the only two nuclear weapons ever used in anger was justified. For us to use modern nukes, which are an order of magnitude more powerful, on a country that we are most likely not ever going to invade is counter intuitive. Also, China AND Russia would be dis-inclined to see the reason for such force, as would a majority of our own citizens. That said I too feel the urge to create a glass parking lot where the N Korean capitol stands.

I strongly disagree with Derek and his "turn the other cheek" desire. I don't want to go to war with NK/China, but by the same token at what point do you stand up to a mouthy mean spitited bully. We have turned the cheek - they fired on an island killing people - not soldiers but civilians - should have done it then - but in the spirit of toleration and realizing the larger scope, SK didn't. It is a school days senerio- and NK is a bully that won't stop until someone knocks the stuffing out of them. I really don't think our current administration has the fortitude to do it and yes it could escalate into a really bad situation of world proportions. This has been coming for a long time - certain things are fortold in history and unfortunately, this is probably going to be one of them - if not now - then soon. You can't lay a foundation and then be surprised by the outcome . . . not and still maintain a voice and have the respect of the international community. We're close to be considered "quitters" already. First Viet Nam - we just left instead of doing what we said we would do . . . . and it's really went downhill from there . . . . there is no such thing as rights and rules in a fight. If that's what it boils down to then you do what is necessary to stop it from escalating and leave. Don't stay don't be big brother - go back if necessary but do what needs to be done and leave. And NK would be a good place to start.

mmmmm....... Chivas

> Why don't we just nuke them an get it over with, they will never change and are a constant threat to world peace.

I could say the same thing about the US. But I'm sure you would have a problem with that.

The "they" to whom you callously refer is comprised mostly of innocent civilians. You would make a lousy God.

With the South starting more war games,the North says it will respond(more threats from the North)If they go ahead with them.The South has every right to have these excersises in their territorial waters,which are disputed by the North(the North disputes everything).The South usually runs like a puppy with it's tail between it's legs.It's time for the south to stand up to these threats.If the North responds in any way then the South shoud do the same.It's time for the South to "Man Up"and attack the fools of N.K.It is the only way they will listen.If this is not enough and the North attacks Seoul then we should send in Air Strikes to hard targets that will get the North's attention.We would not need more forces on the ground.It can be done in the air,with Air Power and our ships and subs shooting cruise missles hitting military bases and then if they want to continue,we hit Pyongyang and the rest of their nuclear capabilities that they are now bragging about.1 well placed missile (we can hit a fly from 200 miles or more,depending on which system we use)can shut this fool up.He wants to see how much he can get away with and so far it's been everything.It is time to Stand Up or Stand Down and get out if we cannot help an Ally whom we have signed a Protection Treaty with,to stop the North from these attacks.And also we have a Carrier Task force in the area.A Carrier Task force is probably the 10th largest Navy(and Air Force) in the world,when combined with all the support ships,subs and Air Power,An Aircraft Carrier is surrounded by a task force that may have 30 ships within a 150 mile radius.If the North did send missles at one of our Carriers it would never even get close to its target.In response to this we can have planes(F-15,F-16,FA18 and F22 raptors and now the F35)in the air within minutes to hit hard targets in the North.And I am sure from bases in S.K. we have all the stealth fighters,bombers that we need.Our Fighter/Bombers have the capability with most flying at mach2.2 and higher to hit the North in a matter of minutes.If the North does bring in the bombing of Seoul and innocent civilians will be killed it will be a whole new ball game.

Too bad we can't nuke these idiot spammers that try to sell their bull@!$%# here......

have you ever seen a nuked country? Grow up....

Telling North Korea what you will do to them specifically will do nothing but ready them if something happens. Kinda shatters the element of surprise and prevent loss of military lives. The South must take a measured response if the North does something less than bright and not escalate any situation.

Respect him or despise him, any thoughtful person would agree THIS is when President Obama truly earns the money and benefits we provide him.

A wrong word - a wrong move, and the world could explode. NO amount of money could compensate for the stress, pressure and worry this situation puts him in. While the nation is busy with shopping, holidays, parties, etc., the President must worry about this, terrorist attacks on a shopping mall filled with shoppers, airplane hijackers, etc.

I'm glad I'm not him.

Randy from Maine.

The president has little to do with any of this; no position one way or the other. Think he's doing something about it, is personally involved with any talks (that are none existent), isn't shopping himself?

Has he, our any of representatives, come out and said anything? Continue with these exercises yet move them, continue where they are, had another televised speech? What exactly is he doing about any?

Agreed, there could be dire consequences, but to say our prez is doing something,.... NO.

harvey: ? havent you ever heard of M.O.A.B. (mother of all bombs) it is the largest conventional non nuclear weopon built...some 20,000 + plus pounds of pure hell. those will do just fine and wont cause any radiation poisoning or fallout they take out about a square mile at a time, down to the dirt leavs the land quite usable the very next day!!!

Randy207, "I'm glad I'm not him.". Me too, his approval rating isn't all that high.

unknowntoyou, "leavs the land quite usable the very next day!!!". Or when ever it cools down enough, whichever comes first.

MOCOUNTRYBOY,

Thank you for respectfully responding to my post. And thank you for being civil instead of attacking.

As I said in my post, MoCountryboy, I cab most certainly understand how some feel anger and even rage when they hear these ceaseless threats from (Lil') Kim....

But let me try and be a bit more clear, "Turn the other cheek" is NOT what I am trying to say is the answer here. What is more closer to what I would like to see happen is for the US to continue to show (Lil') Kim as a Loony Tune.

By doing so, when/if this situation should escalate further out of control and the US is backed into a corner that hey MUST fight out of. They will be far less likely, and far harder of a target for the Anti-US drivel that would certainly start in earnest world wide. Just remember Mo-country, Unlike North Korea... The United States should they have to go to war against N. Korea, would have to fight the N.Korea's plus the Anti-Everything-ers right here in their own back yard.

Since Vietnam, Most of the battles we fight wage here as much as they do in the land they are fought. And right now, If the US were to "Jump into the middle of this feet first" They would get BLASTED for doing so. And regretfully I would have to say...."Rightfully so"...

The Korean Peninsula's Nations are not action as if peace were their concern... And I must be honest Mo Country.... There is not 5,000 people in S. Korea I would feel justified to losing just one American for.

Now, the moment N. Korea does something like Take a shot at an American ship or aircraft. Ans in doing so kill or injure and American or destroy a piece of American equipment.... Then all bets are off...

Then N. Korea has done the ONE THING that I am sure both China and Russia have told North Korea to NEVER do.... Start a Hot War with the US where Large weapons are on the table....

And I can say the "MoCountry".... You don't really want that and neither do I, because what you are talking about will be the end of it all the way we no it today.

Because when you nuke a country civilians die, not the responsible parties of chaos. So that's not a very reasonable option, nor is it very effective.

Seoul is probably too close to North Korea to risk using a NUKE

Anyone who wants to nuke or attack North Korea is as brainless as they are heartless. North Korea is literally a country of brainwashed citizens. If you were born in a country where disloyalty gets your entire family killed or put in 'worker camps' for the rest of your life, you would be no different.

The real problem is the government. All the politicians and especially Kim Jong himself are the core evil to this problem. There is no reason to kill a bunch of innocent scared people just because we refuse to understand their situation.

Unfortunately, there are very few effective and civil ways to solving this problem. Being diplomatic is first and foremost. Killing is the last option.

the domino effect. We fire a nuke, the whole world would see us as the aggressors. No matter what NK did first. Unless of course, they fire a nuke first. Then and only then do we have enough provokation to strike back with nuclear weapons.

Randy207, what are you talking about? Obama has the easiest job in the world. What other job comes with a built-in and widely accepted scapegoat like Bush? Nothing is ever Obama's fault. How easy would I sleep at night if I could blame all my deficiencies and incompetence on someone else and have my boss buy it? Talk about a dream job.

The Sout can not be waivered in their day to day activies as the NK make this threat and that threat other wise they are already under the NK dictatorship.

A fight will come eventually the South had better be prepared and carry out it's MRX's as they normally would because if war come all that training will help them. It's only a matter of time before OFL is on his death bead and orders the harliners to do as they will so that he has nothing loose for this is ow his mind operates. He lacks faith in his son and in his country to continue his will upon his death and will ensure that a war is waged prior to his own demise.

Nancy,

Back in the real world...

Being the President of America has to be one of the most stressful jobs in existence. Obama, Bush, any of them have to deal with balancing their own politics with appeasing idiots on both sides.

There were two Nuclear bombs dropped within 3 days in 1945 and it did not cause Nuclear Winter.

Nuke 'em? I like the idea. You can't argue with success...it worked with Japan.

Right the n koreans had cannibalism through the 90's but getting better now. These people cannot and will not do anything but try to extort all they can. Our LAME A$$ president will do all he can to continue to allow this action. No wonder the World knows the US is weak. Keep reid and the restl to keep on with the administration of apologetics.

Bdobb, are you a moron? I'm just asking... Using a nuke on them would be the ABSOLUTE last thing we should or will do. I have served my country and would have gladly destroyed any number of countries with a smile, but now I have to live in reality. Too bad you haven't gotten to that point yet.

Nuke 'em? Who is 'em? North Korea has one self absorbed ruthless dictator, who I'm sure cares far less about his own people than his personal vanity. The 'em would be hundreds of thousands of innocent people who would likely like nothing more than to be a part of South Korea if given the opportunity. That would certainly make us look great in the eyes of the world creating mass slaughter. China could rein in North Korea in a second if it truely wanted to. They are allowing that irritating mosquito that has been buzzing in the free world's ear to play out his idiotic war games for decades. China just l-o-v-e-s to export its products by the billions to the free world. Yet it continues to support and promote North Korea and condone or meagerly complain about its actions. China is afraid to even allow the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize to leave its borders.......what are you so afraid of? You love the money we give you but want to pester the world with egocrazed dictators, and are afraid of the voices of your own people. I know the prices of goods from China are tempting in times of a bad economy.....but, since it appears we are not going to tax the hell out of Chinese goods coming into the country.....just stop buying them and make a statement even if it costs a bit more. The unfortunate thing is that China has such a chokehold on us that if their economy goes down, so would we. So great, we are bound to a communist dictatorship How'd we get into that mess? I don't really understand.

First of all, Nukes would never be a solution. Second of all you really need to know what your talking about before you start saying "redicilious" statements like that. Killign 100's of thousands of innocent people would go against the geveva convention and would make our country no better then a communist state.

Americans are brainwashed and getting dumber by the day!

Nuke them? Killing innocents doesn't bother you and the nuclear fallout won't bother anybody? Daaa

Nuke them huh? are you stupid?? If somebody launches even one nuke you can bet somebody else will untill the world is blown to smitherins because everybody used every nuke that they had. DUH!!!!

Also it is just a matter of time before there is another draft and war with north korea, there is talk in the armed forces of going to war with n korea

Last week you wanted to nuke Nigeria. Maybe you should leave the kickass in the refrigerator.

I think we should nuke someone... if for no other reason than to show the world that we're not afraid to use 'em so you better at least fear us. We're already hated by the rest of the world, that's not going to change. Better to be hated and feared than to be hated and not feared.

So if we're going to nuke someone, why not N. Korea?

We just cannot afford another war... The ones in Irak and Afghanistan have already cost us too much in all respects. Wars, I believe, are a primary cause for empires and nations to collapse. The US is not inmune to failing and collapsing. Certainly our dire economic situation does not help at all. We need to find a better solution

Like I said...Nuke 'em. Use tacticals first, set up retaliatory interception in advance at sea or in SK, then send in the big bytch to finish them off after we have relieved them of further defensive nuclear response...melt those coke-bottle glasses to the face of that little pig. Yahoo!

Onward Lemmings, MARCH!!!

This is just more nonsense from North Korea. Their SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) is to;

1 - Create a provocation to get attention.

2 - Threaten all out war.

3 - Ask for more concessions to 'cool it", such as food, oil, money, etc.

It's worked every time so far, so why should they change their tactics?

I don't know, Roy; that has been their SOP, but this time may be different...not all may agree, but someone has to be the bigger man here (pun, perhaps intended) and say, 'one day of live fire, towards AreaX, given what's happened already..... nope, let's step away from this one' and perhaps change course or directed firing, if nothing else.

Nuking everyone just doesn't work... Unless you want to hurt S. Korea and Japan as well?

Defeating the North would be pretty easy if we waged a war against them, however, it would be very bloody. The U.S. Military believes that 2/3 of the North's arsenal will be deployed just behind the DMZ with at least half of them within range of Seoul. That's 500,000 rounds per hour for several hours. Seoul is hostage to the North right now. After this happens, the vast majority of occupants of Seoul will flee. This becomes a problem because the U.S. Army reinforcements plan to arrive through Pusan, with only 2 good roads up the length of the peninsula, which will probably be flooded with fleeing civilians. What's worse, Pusan is a target for Northern missles as well. All of the other bases the U.S. plans to use are all targets as well. Plans would rely on U.S. airpower against targets in the North... stealth aircraft, cruise missiles, and smart bombs.

In 1994, they considered going to war. William Perry, John Shalikashvili and Gen. Gary Luck anticipated the costs of the war. They estimated that there would be 52,000 U.S. military killed/wounded, along with 490,000 South Korean Military. This would take place in the first 90 days. It was later calculated that the end toll would be more than 1 million dead, 100,000 of that number being Americans. The cost for this would be about 100 BILLION dollars, as well as 1 TRILLION in damage to South Korea's economy... The 1994 casualty estimates have not changed.

I believe that if the North callapses... millions of refugees will flood across the boarder to China. This would put huge demands on reources of China, much like what is happening in the U.S. with the millions crossing the border between Mexico and U.S.

Just let Kim continue to be the raging lunatic that he is, the annoying, yappy dog barking at the end of his chain will go to sleep eventually.

The idea that China is behind this or that China wants this or that China can somehow benefit from escalations of tension on the Korean Peninsula are silly and ill-informed at best. For the last couple of decades, every time there is ANY escalation of tensions between the North and South, including incidents that don't even make the press here, China rushes thousands to hundreds of thousands of troops to the North Korean/Chinese border to turn back the thousands of refugees that try to flood across. They absolutely do not want hundreds of thousands of North Korean refugees on Chinese soil and the regional destabilization that would bring.

The fact that the North Koreans called over (allowed) Richardson at this time is a good indication that they are not all that eager to let things get out of control.

There were two Nuclear bombs dropped within 3 days in 1945 and it did not cause Nuclear Winter.

Two low-yield (17 to 21 kiloton) atomic bombs in 1945 vs. dozens (or more) high-yield (10+ megaton) hydrogen bombs today. No comparison.

Not going forward with these drills will only serve to embolden the lunatics in the north and consequently lead to more aggressive and dangerous attempts at intimidation in the future. This means reprisal is in order if they commit any agression as a response to these drills.

At this point, any talk of nuking them is just as crazy as they are.

Lake,

Am I a moron? Why, yes...you want lessons?

dozens (or more) high-yield (10+ megaton) hydrogen bombs today.

A: Dozens? We're just asking for one to be dropped.

B: Why use hydrogen? We have plenty of plutonium left.

See we all can say why not just Nuke those dumb Koreans, well the difference is we think about our actions and these Koreans don't, if they are placed in a position that they feel threatened do you really think they would think twice about using their Nukes to kill all our people in S. Korea, these people are not like us in any shape or form dying means nothing to them.........

Dropping nukes might be an answere to the problem, but that is like driving tacks into drywall with a sledge hammer. Is it the people or the government that is making these rediculous threats? And why is our government and other governments enabling this behavior by doing nothing? Was the shelling of that little island and killing un armed civilians legal? And then Little Kimmy and his government threatens SK for making moves to defend themselves? So who is the lunatic, the person making the threats or the victims that are making excuses on the lunatics defence?

Kim is a murderer of men women and children. I dont see where punishing the rest of the country is a fair and just act when it is a few that are committing crimes against humanity. Justice needs to be well placed against those that are committing the crimes.

This guy has to be a real idiot!

First, I do not care how bad the threat, the right to freedom and the choice to freely participate in military drills should never be stopped by a mad man. Now with this being stated, could we at this time support and fight a war on another front? I think we can, but we would be stretched to just about the breaking point. But, although we do not have the power at this time situated over there to stop an attack, we do have the means to put a quick stop to the North if they did try to cross the boarder, because once they are crossed over they will be away from their bunkers.

Second, this should show us the grave situation that we face right now of having all our products done in countries that could either be hostel to us, or could be shut down because of hostilities. I have felt that in the name of national security we need to maintain the manufacturing structures in our country to resupply ourselves in the time of war, and even if these structures are ran with a skeleton crew with a small amount of manufacturing, we need to have the ability to in short notice to be able ramp up and become self sufficient. Sadly, both parties have been in a stampede to give away our manufacturing structures over to third world countries, and quite a few of them are semi-hostile of not totally hostile to us. If we do not wake up, and make the necessary investments, one day we will wake up and it will be too late.

I keep seeing Nero fiddling while he is watching Rome burn, and sadly I am beginning to see that 99% of our politicians are doing the same.

This is a last threat as the changing of the gaurd arrives. He has shown the World his son and we know he will take over. It is believed Lil Kim has cancer and this is his last hurrah. We need to send info' to the general public in NK and let them see the rest of the World is not starving or dying on the streets as he feeds them his propoganda.

Worse comes to worse let's send in a black ops team to take the two of them out. Then all their hidden wealth can be released to the people.

Looking at some of your comments, some of you guys have no idea what your talking about. What this about Nuking them? I'm a Brit and I LIVE IN SOUTH KOREA and the international media is fuelling the fire by blowing this situation out of proportion and twits like yourselves just perhaps might learn something if you go online and read the English version of the Korean newspapers. I showed some Korean friends the kind of comments left by people like you and they were really shocked! The international diplomatic community have been making some big mistakes that have led the Korea's to we where they now stand. Yes it's a complicated situation but airheads like you are doing exactly what the dictatorship in the North wants you to do! Now go and do some proper research and learn something!

just " nuke em' ? you obviously have no idea what your statement means or the destruction of what using nuclear weapons would mean, do , or cause , to the already fragile security and anxiety of the world we live in today. do you have any idea what the fallout of a nuclear bomb exploding in north Korea territory would do to , not only the rnk, but our own troops , not to mention the thousands of citizens in nk , sk, and our own troops stationed there and beyond? your a classic example of people who never watch the news except when there's a crises in the world that concerns america and then jump ahead and say stupid remarks like you did.

as a member of a family who's father served during the vietnam and korean war and retired after 24 years,and a brother of one who served and was stationed in s. korea in the special forces from 88-90 and also served in many other conflicts , including , but not limited to, operation desert storm, operation endearing freedom, Somalia in 93, granada, panama,Bosnia , and other " classified" operations, i know first hand what it feels like to know what and how our soldiers feel about the talk of using a nuclear weapon where they themselves would be a statistic from a careless decision like the one you speak of. grow up, think about anything harsh that you may do , BEFORE YOU DO IT. i can't believe i even responded to your reckless suggestion.

Thanks for posting, Me. Your comments are a refreshing change from the loud, ignorant calls for war being made by recliner-bound warriors who have nothing to lose in another Korean War.

This is not the time or the place for making thoughtless, precipitous actions that will ignite the entire Korean peninsula and lead to a conflict that will be extremely destructive, expensive, and costly in terms of human lives, including thousands of American lives. The loud mouths in this discussion need to do some real reading about the original war and the events that have led to the political and military realities of the current situation. There is no simple, easy solution to this problem and nuking North Korea and making other stupid, aggressive responses will not make things better. It is, in fact, appalling to see how many uniformed people participating in this discussion think such actions are called for here.

Sad, sad, sad.

The reason we do not drop nukes without an act of great provocation is that we can manipulate data, we can deceive people into believing the other side acted first, we can fool people with smoke and mirrors. However, short of using a nuke as a response to a nuclear attack, we cannot convince them a nuclear attack was justified. Since our entire premise for the invasion of Iraq was their possession of WMD's, it surely would not do anything for us amongst the powers of the world to utilize them. The US will find itself in the world hotseat for being the ONLY country to use the ULTIMATE WMD.....TWICE!!! If you honestly think that the governments of the world are not watching the US with an ever watchful eye, you are wrong. If you think they are not bothered and concerned with the current US Imperial expansion, you are wrong. If you think that smaller countries all over the world are not worried they will be next, you are wrong.

The attitude of the US has become "We must invade them before they attack us".

How then do you call the leaders of other countries insane?

The whole philosophy of "Attack before they attack us" is that of an insane mind. It also shows a fear-- a fear that any and every action is a perceived threat against one's welfare. That mindset is attributed to tyrants who know that sooner or later, the oppressed will rise up against them so they must squash them before they grow.

Do none of you see in this situation the similarity between the US and North Korea and Pharoah and the Jews? Pharoah wanted to make sure that no Jew rose up against him so he slaugtered their sons. Don't tell me it's different. It's the exact same.

You are the same sheep that would be bleating the their throats bloody if Russia and Cuba were conducting exrcises in areas uncomfortable to the US.

But I will leave you to rally your mantra ..."BAAA...Seig Heil!....BAAA....Seig Heil!"

It's nice to see there are ignorant, inflammatory statements coming from both ends of the political spectrum in this discussion. It shows that democracy is live and well, although it does not bode well for the critical thinking skills of some of the people participating in this thread. Still, trolls do serve to make these discussions spicy and entertaining, if not thoughtful or informative.

I will now leave you to your mantra of blah, blah, blah...

Kudos, that was rather clever although in no way, shape, form, or fashion did it do anything but fall into the same category you just described.

Time to go downtown with a few JDAMs and send the old man to his grave a bit early along with his son.

I think this would be BIGGER News, had NKorea said nothing....LOL

Yep, I believe if I lived in Seoul that I would take a vacation or something before Saturday....maybe as far south as I could get.

One thought... The USA is part of the live fire. If the South is fired upon, the USA might respond with a few well placed missiles, into the nuc facilities. If the USA does this, they will with secret notification to China. The result, no nucs in North Korea and both the USA and China will be happy.

Who would be hapy over the release of radioactive material? They need to take the two of them out quietly. One day they wake up and they don't.

NAAH....I would to see us try the Neutron Bomb...or loan one or two to S Korea

Perhaps someday, when you die, you can explain to God how you think it's ok to nuke millions of innocent civilians because you wanted to "get things over with".

While I agree with not launchcing preemptive military strike, I would continue with the pre-anounced military excersise. Further if we do get involved I hope we can hit the military targets and not "millions of civilians". Clear heads includes not knee jerking to NK demands.

guess what someday when you die you no longer are there and your not going to see or talk to god you are not going anywhere except in the ground

Do unto others as they do unto you in this case do it first South Korea has to redraw the line in the sand. North Korea has lied from day one. They have shelled a South Korean ship, and shelled a South Korean Island. South Korea has had enough, they have shown enough restraint. The North Koreans have met offers of diplomacy with more threats, offered no apologies or excuses that the acts were bad judgement. I for one expect a gunfight on the Korean penisula. There is no doubt that every piece of artillery in North Korea and every North Korean rocket has a missile pointed at it, and North Korea has no airforce or navy. The North Koreans really are minutes away from being obliterated, any other act of aggression will be met with massive strikes on there weapons includng nuclear sites and there capital.

Dealing with Lil Kim is very tricky. Does the world ignore him like you would a spoiled child and eventually the behaviour will improve, or do you stand up to him like the bully he is. Typically when confronted bullies back-down and run. However, this guys brain is not firing on all cylinders and he is unpredictable. Coupled with the fact that he has little regard for his own people. With the US supporting S. Korea (which I do) we risk pissing off China.

Something must be done to ensure this little man understands his little dot on the planet does not run the world, but what to do? I am not against nuke weapons in any way but in this situation it is not even a realistic response.

scopata messico, I agree. We "loan" SK the weapons. Or maybe do a little "for hire" work as a completely "un-bias" party.

Mick, May the Lord have mercy on your soul!

Amen Mike

hmmm if that hurdtogen particle accelorator in Switzerland has the potential to create black holes, all we would need to know is how to close a black hole.....My idea is we create a black hole in the middle of N Korea, let them get kinda....well sucked in, and close the hole. After all, no one knows for sure whats on the other side of one. For all we know we're sending them to a happier place. And we'd never have to deal with them again!

-glad I'm not a world leader with a degree in physics, eh?

Respond to any NK attack by sending swarms of conventional cruise missiles into Kim's palace in Pyuongyang followed by the same treatment for all NK military barracks. That should settle things for a while.

Also, a MOAB attack on all NK troop concentrations on the northern side of the DMZ would be beneficial.

This would take care of several things although the current administration will not allow any of this. Better to kiss a$$ and play politics than do anything.

NK is just mad because Bill Richardson didn't arrive with a sackful of money like they were expecting for their usual Christmas bonus! Ho Ho Ho, just coal for you!

This is what I've said in the past; the truly big dog knows when to step down, and it's not a sign of weakness.

No one knows if 'lil Kim will start something again later, but continued provocation at this time seems to be the unwise move for all involved. The South, the US should be the bigger man here and step down; it's really not important enough (these 'games') to potentially start a war over.

What are you talking about?

I was stationed in Korea and it's the NK that's doing all the saber rattling. Neither SK or US is provoking anything. In fact we have tried to bring them to the peace table several times and each time they tried to pick a fight. Neither the SK or US has struck back at them for incidents they caused and your blaming us.

The only thing I can agree with is not using Nukes and that's mainly because the fallout could cross the boarder into China or blow it back into SK where we have our people stationed.

I doubt that any think otherwise; N. Korea is definately the antagonist. The only question becomes whether or not it's worth it at this time to continue with these exercises amidst such tensions.... the results could be numerous dead, including our own, and that's first and foremost. But after this, we all know cyclones tend to draw outsiders into the storm; what could potentially be the end result?

As Kenney Rogers said; know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. In this particular case, and given Il's health and longetivity estimates, it doesn't seem it would be a case of backing down or appearing weak to cease plans for this particular exercise, and do others. The North will still see what military capabilities both the US and S. Korea have; that's the purpose in these games, isn't it?

One big problem. We give in and they just make even greater demands. We tried that with them before thinking the we give you give approach would work. Next thing you know we have 3 dead NK soldiers inside the DMZ wearing SK uniforms and a NK spy sub sunk off the coast but within weapons range of Seoul.

I would look at it less of a cooperative effort, and more of buying time; such as with foreclosures. Il's health is poor, and agreed it's only putting off another incident... but right now, it seems more likely than ever 'lil kim will go through with his threat.

The other side of the coin? He may be doing all this now because of his health.

i got an idea, how about we get the hell outta there and let those nations that live next door figure this @!$%# out with the help of the UN.

We don't need to be there.

The WHOLE WORLD is not AMERICA. It's ok to care about people but we don't need to be the "government" or "military" of the world, for god sakes.

We don't even have any real enemies any longer except for a hand full of Nuts at this point in time.

We don't need to spend 60% of our Budget on DEFENSE. Times have changed. We are trade partners with our so called few enemies, that should tell you something about the times we live in. We do not need to police the world any longer.

Since 2000-2009 we have increased spending for defense an average of 9% for each year. That is crazy. We need ot scale back and use those funds for other things

Total overhaul of infrastructure and finally a solid path to renewable energies and new technology.

From Bill Clinton to George Bush, negotiations with Norht Korea have garnered nothing but lies and continual threats of turning South Korea into a "sea of fire." If American had to hear one of its neighboring countries talking trash like this and then actually lobbing shells to kill American civilians, that country would be an ash heap. The South Koreans have been more than patient with the spoiled brat Kim Jong Il and his "Mini-Me" son, Kim Jong-Un.

Earlier this week, South Korea had its first nationwide air drill in at least a decade. It's been showing its resolve by running continual naval and air exercises. To not be prepared would send the signal to North Korea that its southern neighbor is weak and ready to give in to the North's slightest provocation.

It is possible war may come to Korea. If so, it will terrible to both sides, but North Korea will finally be destroyed in the end. For those of you who think North Korea can be controlled or pacified, let me ask you if you would have given Nazi German or Fascist Japan anything to avoid World War II and the tens of millions killed. Would you have given up Poland and Pearl Harbor? Would you have allowed the US to be partitioned into a western half dominated by the rising sun and the eastern half ruled by the swastika?

Grisham, I don't see how you percieve the US and South Korea as provoking them. They are having exercises in their own territory. North Korea is provoking this by their rheortic and actions. They are the ones who blatantly attacked S. Korea's ship in March and shelled their island a few weeks ago. If we weren't doing military exercises, Lil Kim would have another complaint, namely that S. Korea belongs to him.

I would only purpose that two wrongs don't make a right; 'lil kim certainly wants this, whether it's because he's dying, because his nation is for his actions, because he's finally lost it... reasons may not be clear, but by continuing on this path, he's going to get what he wants.

War.

By avoiding this particular area, continuing military exercises elsewhere and he does something again, it falls squarely into the worthless hands of the UN; it should have after the ship incident, and then the following bombing and loss of 4 lives. Being the money distribution entity they are, they'll likely do naught, and all will see them for what they are. Yet, at the very least, other nations will come on board, and it won't be a U.S. and S. Korea problem alone.

As it stands, we have options. I'd believe that one of the soundest, common sense ones would be to not necessarily back down, but not provoke. Again; the purpose of these exercises should be to demonstrate military capabilities but not to skate that razor's edge and push right up to the line in the sand...

While I don't agree that what's going on in these exercises is 'provoking', Kim does; and it gives excuse to give the turd what he wants.... why do that?

The North Koreans see friendly overtures as a sign of weakness and an opportunity to blackmail the rest of the world. They have signed treaties and agreements on nuclear issues then broken them after good will was heaped on them for signing the treaties. this has proved they cannot be trusted but instead must be stopped, otherwise South Korea will be attacked again and again. They have exported there nuclear expertise to Iran and possibly even terrorist organizations putting the whole free world at risk. Time for talking is over.

HowULikeMe -

A) We are part of the UN.

B) Our Defense spending is 23% of the budget as of 2009. Granted that's alot, but don't spew unfactual evidence just to support your loose point.

C) Yes, the Federal government needs to cut back spending. However, the number one job of Washington is to protect it's citizens and secure Liberty for those who need it (inside or outside our borders). We need to roll back spending on SS ($678 Billion), Medicare/Medicaid ($676 Billion), Interest on Debt ($187 Billion), "Mandatory Spending" ($607 Billion), etc. etc.... before we even have the discussion of cutting Defense drastically.

D) The period of American military pre-eminence has seen fewer major conflicts than any other period since the rise of nation-states. U.S. military strength improves global stability ("peace through strength"). For example, the presence of the U.S. Navy enables commercial shipping, provides quick response to natural disasters, such as the earthquake Haiti, and deters aggression, as with China and Taiwan.

A strong national defense and a coherent U.S. security policy are part of the foundation of our success as a nation. We must use our forces wisely and effectively while preparing for future conflicts which may not resemble today’s.

Grisham,

Every Country holds military drills and most often invites other countries to assist in them. Why is it any different for SK and the US?!?! Just because NK is ran by a little spoiled brat with a chip on his shoulder!

Again, let the UN prove they're worth something; in the meantime, aim elsewhere. Even if not so, the North percieves this area as being 'right at the line'; there's a difference betwixt giving in and being rational.

Really, what it boils down to is 'lil kim WANTS to go to war, and wants and excuse to do so, and has been looking and provoking for some time. His people don't; many are separated from family members in the South. Heck, his military likely doesn't either.... with him out of the way, all would be sooo much better, and- - there are ways that can be accomplished without any war whatsoever. Technology, assasins, .... several options.

He can be discarded without war, without acting now, and without more South Koreans and any Americans being killed. None really know what's afoot but the U.N. has proven what it's really about, China has done nothing to rein him in over the years.

To say 'if it's war he wants, then war he'll get' isn't what any in the region want; why more in the region, specifically China, haven't done more to stop this is really conjecture. They like their buffer, want a 'negotiating table', but have let it get this far. Again, the past 2 aggressive acts by the North, and nothing from China or the U.N. .

If we and the South are left holding the bag, then we need to work with it to our betterments.

If ding jong thinks today's exercises are too close to his border, then so be it; that's not being weak or friendly. It's calling on the U.N. to actually DO something, and eventually will force other nation's involvements.

No sane government will use nuks. They know what they do, and as far as not being able to use the land for a very long time that is not so. It all depends on what isatope they use. SK should not delay the exersise as that will only embolden the north to raise more cain every time they get a hang nail. The north is trying to be a bully and if you back down from a bully you only embolded him.

I don't give a crap about the UN. It's all part of the dream one world government promoted by Soros and his Marxist, socialist counterparts.

Why should we want a UN decision on how to protect ourselves. I don't know of any UN good for nothing forces in Korea.

@HowUlikeMeNow, I sure wouldn't want you as a friend watching my back! Where is the loyalty man?

Who's provoking Who? I think sinking a Frigate and Shelling somebody's island and killing two ROK Marines is pretty provacative, wouldn't YOU say so Grisham? How many times do you have to let a bully slap your face before you do something about it? I know the bible says if somebody slaps your face to turn the other cheek, but remember, you only have two cheeks.

AlKhdir, interesting that you bring up nazi Germany and Japan, because appeasement is exactly what they tried to do in Europe. And while England and France were trying to make Hitler happy, he spent the time building up his forces and we all know what the outcome was.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Although I'm not advocating bombing North Korea, I believe that we should allow South Korea to determine what action they want to take and support them as much as our treaties and agreements with them allow us to. It's their decision, not ours. At the same time, we let NK and China understand, to no uncertain terms, that we WILL support South Korea. And continue to ask China to leash their chihuahua.

Before WW2 England tried to appease Hitler. Then the London bombing started. Would rather NK attacks Hawaii or Alaska?

Grisham- you from N. Korea? If not there, then one of the utopian socialist states like CA or MA? Get a life. I'm sorry some of the above posters had to waste their time and their thoughts on attempting to educate you. Just go away you worthless troll. Take your left-wing peacenik apologetic views and shove them where the sun don't shine.

"It's strange that the US and SK keep provoking them. It's like they want a reason to go to war. I think NK is a serious threat, but poking them with sticks isn't going to help the situation."

SERIOUSLY!!??

So...if some punk kid vanadlized your house, but there just wasn't enough hard evidence to prove and convict, then you staring him down in an "I know it was you...you better watch your back because next time I will get you" way every time he walked past your property is provoking him to do it again too, huh?

I do feel that performing new, uncheduled maneuvers right on the border just to show force is a bit provacative, but it also isn't a whole lot different than standing on the edge of your lawn as that kid walks by...just so he gets the point. I think having one of our newest, hugest carriers sit in the Yellow Sea is point enough. I also think it needs to be there permanently.

bob5ford

Before WW2 England tried to appease Hitler. Then the London bombing started. Would rather NK attacks Hawaii or Alaska?

Alaska. Where do I sign?

Grisham - we, nor South Korea are provoking them. We have conducted joint exercises with South Korea since the end of the Korean War. I know because I was involved with some of them 25 years ago. This is BLACKMAIL, plain and simple. Besides with all the military hardware we have provided South Korea with since the end of the war, they don't need any help from us.

that like saying if the USA runs a few live fire drills in the middle of the firing range in the western part of Utah that the Canadian Military will launch over some shells of back-bacon.

SK has the right to test their military just like any other sovren nation

The U.N. is worthless, and that's the point; put the ball in their court, watch the inaction, and then disband the worthless. Money redistribution is their goal, and the faux 'world moderators' will fall when they do inact.

As far as making a point, we and S. Korea have; they're watching the exercises, trying to provoke and fish, and some want us and S. Korea to take the bait.

Giving some POS ego maniac what he's asking for because he's dying, because he's ruined his country, because he thinks China may help (doubtful as heck) isn't going to save lives, money or face.... it's caving in and being immature.

Demand the worthless U.N. do something and then back off this particular area of exercise for now; when they do nothing, disband the worthless money grubbing SOB's and charge whomever you can with wrecklessness, falsification, criminal intent, usuary, embezzelment, .... whatever is possible.

Then, if other surrounding nations sit on their hands, it may come to shove but let the world know there won't be tolerance of 'lil kim's bull, nor the U.N.'s, nor NATO, nor China's turning a blind eye. If it weren't for the redistribution of wealth allowed by our 535, the Fed Reserve, the U.N., NATO, the continuance of NAFTA, decimation of America due to utilization of 3rd world wages.... we'd be on China much more harshly for not reining in their little buffering neighbor. If no action is taken, then it is what it is, and we have some decisions before us....

Some certainly would call me protectionistic in my views, and I'm fine with that; seems this 'global' crap hasn't gotten us very far, has it now?

The US isn't provoking. My father fought in the Korean war in the 50's - trust me, there was no provoking. It was an ignorant and uninformed comment made. No one wants war - except those who have the most to lose - And if anyone says it was a "police action" or anything other than a war back in the 50's, they are also ignorant. Battles were fought, guns were fired and lives were lost. It was a war, period.

"It's strange that the US and SK keep provoking them. It's like they want a reason to go to war."

So, what are the US and SK supposed to do, stop all military training exercises whether joint or SK by themselves? Every time there is a training exercise NK starts making noise and threats it doesn't matter where in SK the training is done.

I say set up artilitary detecting radar facing NK and if the shells start coming counterfire before they have time to move the pieces. And yes I know much of the artilitary is in hardened bunkers but not all of it is.

Mac - That's why we have Bunker Busters.

, the number one job of Washington is to protect it's citizens and secure Liberty for those who need it (inside or outside our borders).

oh, that's just brilliant, "our job" is to secure our version of liberty for the rest of the world, whether they want it or not...

r u for real, or just a totally fffinnnng..idiot

Grisham, You've got to be kidding me who's provoking who where have you been. Nk has been instigating conflict for quite some time now let's see long and short range missile's, nuke program, ship sinking, destroying fishing villages and that's just some of the things you hear and see thru the media, not counting the things you don't know about. What I find more strange is why China their main benefactor would rather put the focus back on us and our allies instead of NK where it should be. NO I DO KNOW WHY.

apparently, according to jason"our job" is to play world police according to our manifest destiny.

however, we are allies with SK, and if they decide to go, it is for us to back them up. but it is NOT for us to instigate the war, it is between SK and NK

my personal preference for "future world conflicts" would be for us to use targeted assassination of individuals that are a direct threat to the US and leave the rest of the world alone.

Grisham... you are a moron. No one is provoking North Korea every stupid thing they do is done with no provocation. The US is not the problem everytime there is tension somewhere in the world. I find your Pollyanna why can't we all dance around the Maypole, except that mean Ol' US, short sighted and disturbing. But I don't think I am saying anything that everyone does not already know.

SK like every other country in the world has the right and duty to it's citizens to have drills within it's own borders. Do you think NK is not sabre rattling with it's military parades and testing of nuclear weapons and missile launches into the sea of Japan?

maybe you cannot @!$%#ing read. i believe nk fired the first shots and sk should knock them off the @!$%#ing map.

If you let this Bully (NK) continue with thier hostile actions, you will only encourage them to do more the next time. If you punch a bully in the mouth, HARD, they will respect the fact that you can hurt them and leave you alone. We do not need to go nuclear in order to strip (NK) of thier nukes.

Id just like to point out... those waters are disputed. Holding drills in that water is like me building my garage over your property line because I believe its my property.

yourliver;

This is a point I also made (somewhere on this 1st page). In some ways, it's pushing the envelope.

As an analogy, I have a dog at home that will bite me under the right (or wrong) circumstances; I know what will provoke this, so by doing it, I know what the end result will be. He's not right for biting and is in the wrong, but I'm also not right for doing action A that will result in this and am wrong if I expected something different or go off about it.

And, the point I made before; why give 'lil kim what he wants? If we, SK continue on this path (at the present political climate) we're really letting him bully us. Some would say it's backing down, but I see it more as giving in to the bully; and importantly, how many tens of thousands of our men and women are over in SK and Japan whom's lives depend on one decision (possibly, none is in stone)?

As you've said, there really is no need to stick your bigtoe across the line in the sand, push it right to the edge; why do it other than to see what will happen?

danwill, by your definition the target list would be our House, Senate, President, Justice Department, Wall Street, Bankers, etc. All that before proceeding beyond our own borders. You know, that whole foreign or domestic thing in the oath you take in the military? You did serve I assume? Of course it also mentions that little part about following the lawfull orders of the officers appointed over you and the elected officals over them. Who would you propose that we have take their place? Nazis? What about the Communists? I know, You want the Fascist party to take over. Or are you a kumbiya type of guy who will let anyone push him around? Grow up Danwill, We can not act like spoiled children when dealing with a madman. Killing him should be something that his own country does to him. Directed assassination is a moronic method of getting your point across. Do you volunteer to be the first assassin? How would the world look on you? Most likely as nothing more than a murderer for hire.

yourliver, This has nothing to do with a property line at all. It has to do with an unresolved war that is over SIXTY YEARS OLD! Any time in the past sixty years the North could have come to the table and negotiated in good faith and settled this without another drop of blood being spilt. Instead they have kidnapped Japanese nationals, South Korean nationals, shelled civilians, attacked and sunk ships, shot at troops manning the DMZ, and pushed their diminutive weight around like they were ten times as strong as they are. They could have negotiated the sea border but they chose not to. They are as guilty as can be.

Grisham,

Try to look at it this way. You and I are neighbors. On my property I want to build a garage/workshop for my two cars and a place to work on my hobbies. My project will not cause you any harm nor even come close to your property line and their is nothing illegal about it. However as my neighbor you don't want me to do it and tell me you will burn it down if I do. Am I supposed to cease and desist because exercising my rights (and not harming anyone) is something you don't like and you threaten my property with violence?

This is no different than what North Korea is doing to South Korea. North Korea has no legal standing to do what they are doing and any action they take is an outright and blatant act of terrorism and should be dealt with accordingly. Kind of like the bully in school. Once you stand up to them and cause them enough pain, it really makes no difference if you win or lose, the bully usually backed off, because the consequences of their actions were not worth it to them. The North Korea leader is nothing but a bully who needs to face a serious challenge and IF he makes it necessary, have the fight brought to him, so that he can see the consequences of his actions are not worth it.

I agree that using nukes is not the first action we should take. However we have the ability to take out North Korea's nuclear fuel producing abilities and if necessary we can very probably take out their missile sites long before they can launch. A blow of this type would very likely be enough to make North Korea leave South Korea alone for a very long time. So the next move is North Korea's. If they are bluffing, not problem. If they really do launch an attack because South Korea is dares to exercise their right to have a military drill, then a few well placed missiles that take out their nuclear abilities and cripple their missiles defense system should be enough to wake them up.

We aren't "poking them with a stick". S Korea is conducting military drills on it's own island. It has every right to do so. It's N Koreas fault to choose to over react. I highly doubt that we'd bombard a N korean island if it was conducting military drills. Keep a close eye on it, yes, but not fire directly on the island until we're 100 percent sure they've fired on us first. Maybe thats what N Koreas problem is, they don't have the tech to brains to actually know when artillery shells are hitting the mainland.

Ernie, I think the problem is... your new workshop is actually on my property and I was planning on building a pool. Please remove your workshop.

sorry lake, I don't consider our elected officials and those appointed by them to be "direct threats to the US", regardless of whether or not I agree with their policies. we put them there.

Lake's opinions are wishful thinking by those who want to believe in conspiracies and "evil-government" theories. Those opinions are untrue and are deserving of contempt and scorn.

His assertions about the North Koreans coming to the table to bargain in "good faith" are laughable, too. Please refer to the official website of the North Korean government to see first hand how twisted their world view is and compare it to the events of the past few weeks. These events are not enough to justify a war, don't get me wrong, but the North Koreans are not honest or rational, either.

So because DPRK might get their feelings hurt, the ROK shouldn't train their soldiers?

What?

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

NK has absolutely no authority to tell Sk when or where they can hold military exercises on there territory. To say Sk is provoking NK is total bull. NK has sunk a SK ship and threatened to nuke, go to war, and destroy SK just about every other week.

Saying SK is provoking them by conducting these exercises is basically saying that you are rewarding the north for there unjust assault on SK. Now SK must seek the Norths permission on when and where they can hold military drills. And that the South shouldnt cause the North might attack? So the south has to comply with the Norths demand. Seems to me the North is the one doing provocative measures. Like shooting missles over Japan, testing nukes in the face of the UN. Sinking SK ships. But if the South conducts a military exercise they are at fault?

And the fact so many agree with you is plain scary. Go and reward the Norths hostile actions by saying SK should not hold drills on there soil cause the north might attack. maybe next time the North will bomb a city and sink another ship and then you can reward them more by saying the South should not train militarily cause the North will attack and we want to avoid war and not blaming the people dead set on war which seems to be the North. They attack and threaten war unless talks are started. So we should reward that behavior till they think that more attacks will mean more rewards

And HowUlikeMeNow,

If we leave. Then we lose bases in the pacific. We lose allies that think we just leave them when they need us. And when the North does attack and takes over the South and form a power and become a direct threat to us we can deal with it then possible on our own steps. People need to not just learn history from what they remember in school. But really educate themselves on certain issues before they post

So what, we're supposed to give in to every demand that North Korea makes? You don't get it: The north will NOT stop bullying the south. Ever. If they did, their government would lose its ability to control it's people. We stop holding drills close to their borders, they demand that the DMZ be moved a mile south. We do that, they demand that Seoul be moved because "its too close to the North's border and that makes them uncomfortable". I know, that sounds irrational, right? The North IS NOT rational! The sooner you figure that out, the sooner you realize they can't be reasoned with.

You are one of those people that have never travel the world, you believe what is said on TV and written in News papers. If you would travel and come over to the area you will see the truth, you will hear the truth and you will understand that it is time to tell the NK's, China and Russia that someone needs to stop the NK and make them join the rest of the world. they are still living in the past! Look as a night sat shot of the Korea's. You will the south has lights on! The north is almost blacked out and that is not because they elect to do that it is because if your rich, or live in the city, there is no services in the country. Good luck and hopefully one day you will wake up from your dream world. If you have not been over here, then don't say anything!

Typical. No one wants war really. But to do exercises in self defense and constantly saying that is all it is and NK still lies and twists the obvious just like the original attack, and still you find a way to support the NK view point. "I know they are wrong, but...yadyadayada." Clearly you voted for Barack OnthefenceBAMA. Sometimes we got to draw a line in the sand. The USA has given up lives and time to free the south,still educated Americans and so called "humanitarian" political leaders in the US seem to find a way along with you to undermine what the USA miracle is all about and you manage to play advocate to devilish passivism which in essence will stand by and allow the killing of many than the actual saving of many many"more" lives that could ever be imagined. Peace is something that is brokered and love is a sacrifice, truly the greater good comes at a price, and truly freedom and peace is not free. Look at Nk history and you ask yourself what side would you truly stand for? We are actually loving our enemies by helping stop the NK rulers from harming their own people worse than they already have. Wish it was not so,but that is the fallen corrupt world we are born into, we need to keep pressing for true democracy and true worship of the Only Living God Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Without God NK has no chance either way.

4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,a' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

@Grisham: ROK and US are not poking them to aggravate North. They have been posing a constant threat to ROK and international community by nuke and all sorts of craps that ONLY THEY think are sensible. Whether ROK holds a military training for their own defense, or send North tons of foods, they never stopped threatening ROK. Thousands of US military men and women are not stationing just for nothing, or "to poke North" and aggravate North. Perhaps either you don't know a squat about what's going on in the peninsula, or you are related to North to make such a senseless comment.

God bless you, Grisham! You have voiced my sentiments exactly. There is no military value to these live fire artillery drills on this disputed island off the North Korean coast, since they would have to evacuate this island anyway if full scale hostilites developed between North Korea and South Korea, or risk being completely taken over. It is clearly South Korea (and the U.S.) which are provoking this situation, and for the life of me I cannot begin to reason why. What South Korea is doing really seems insane to me, and I have already recommended that they might want to seriously consider taking away Obama's Nobel Peace Prize because of this. From the immediate looks of it at least, it is Russia and China who are behaving responsibly in this tense situation. There are 10 million people in the city of Seoul, and 24.5 milliion people in the total area in and around Seoul. It will be a slaugherhouse if North Korea opens up on Seoul with all of their artillery guns blazing. I can't believe this insanity is coming from our side !!! - Rick Carter

Okay, don't get North Korea riled up, but it is okay to get South Korea riled up?

Is Russia and China ever going to take the side of the U.S.A. ?

It seems for now, cooler heads have prevailed; we and SK have bought time through other's actions.

These aren't reindeer games any more with 'lil kim, and the worthless UN needs to do something in the next few days; THAT'S what they're supposedly here to do. Strip 'em all naked, and see what's really going on, and who is worth what.

If nothing is accomplished, then we'll know where China and the rest of 'em stand. It's down to being decisive once and finally, and remember... none want to go to war, there will be thousands dead; civilians that don't want this, soldiers that don't want this, and families that are divided in the North and South don't want this.... it's a tyranical ego nut job that wants this.

It's not N. Korean soldiers with family in the South that want to attack their own, it's one person (perhaps others close to him, but the exception); this can't be stressed enough. As I've said before, if China can't reason with it's buffer, if the UN isn't worth it's salt (which I believe to be the case), then it's time to really reconstruct the U.S.'s relations with all and make permanent changes. Then, again, decisions will have to made and it may become what none want; but, in the end, business as usual can't continue with others. It has to change.

There were no envoys when the S. Korean ship was sank and dozens killed; none when 4 were shelled and killed. None when Iran continued it's nuke projects, none when Israel was threatened by this, or when Israel and Hammas would skirmish. Still, the UN remains quite good at wealth redistribution.....

Again, in reality this area may not be disputed but 'lil kim thinks it is; is it really worth what could happen to continue in said area? I would still say it's time to see who will really do what, hold them accountable for what transpires, and act accordingly; this isn't a game....

brokinarrow, it's not OUR decision to make at all, it's South Koreas decision to make, it's their arse on the line, their families, their homes, not ours.

you seem to be all to happy to attack NK just because they hurt your feelings, but they aren't any kind of a direct threat to the US right now. they are a direct threat to a close ally of the US though.

so that still makes any decision fall on the South koreans, and not the Americans, no matter how you look at it.

tell me. what are YOU risking? (nothing)

What do you want to bet they already have the NK facilities targeted?

oh, they most certainly do, they just won't be able to stop NK from doing tremendous damage to seoul if it really did hit the fan.

however, it is really up to SK to make the decision to pull the trigger, since it is their rears that are on the line, far more than ours are (with the exception of the 28,000 US troops there now)

but this has always been NK's game, to push to the brink, and demand concessions.

they have been playing it that way for so long, it is doubtful that they even know how to act in a civilized manner.

.................

Night Hawk,

We are not provoking! Maybe you should change your name to 'Sunset Hummingbird'!

How much aggression from the North do you want before you'd like the South to respond? I mean, seriously..

I would argue that complacency by SK only encourages NK's actions. Just like a bully in the playground, they will keep pushing and pushing as long as there isn't any repercussions..

We have the world's greatest Navy and Air Force, neither of which is playing major roles in the Middle East right now. We don't need ground forces in NK to take them down if need be..

most military exerises are planned several months in advance - (mostly to make sure that the ammo is availble - you never use war stock ammo without immediately restocking it)

South Korea - conduct your exercise and keep your forces on alert.

North Korea - go ahead and run off at the mouth, your standing army maybe 1 million, but they have never been trained in anything above the brigade size and with very little live ammo (in fear the army would take over) your equipment is 30 to 50 years old (Russian and China hand me downs. The only training your commanders have done is get ready for the yearly parade. Plus you don't have the food or fuel for your people, let alone to conduct a winter war.

Yes, North Korea has a couple of nukes, station a few Aegis cruisers and PATRIOT units and shoot them down after they launch.

We need to stop living in fear.

And yes we waste to much in our defense budget.

The best thing about fighting in the Korean Winter is that the heat signatures from hot tubes can easily be seen and targeted. The exhaust from tanks and even soldiers standing around can really help a targeting officer decide what to shoot at.

War is hell but if you were a North Korean dying in a North Korean slave labor camp, wouldn't you want to be rescued? Most human beings want peace, food and shelter and just like the Germans held hostage by their NAZI brothers, the North Koreans are no different. 6 million German civilians, not including those killed in uniform or in the Death Camps, died in the war. Ask any sane German today if they would rather live under the NAZIs or under the Social Democratic system they have now and I think you all know the answer.

Sometimes you have to break a lot of eggs to make an omelet.

p

CBurroughs

1. Never said we are provoking, said S. Korea

2. Change my name ? lmao @ you. Fool! Are you going to take up a rifle and go fight over there, since we are presently short on man power fighting 2 other wars ( conflicts ) ? I am sure you are not, maybe you are just too old and cannot, so gonna send someone elses husband, or son to fight?

3. I also quess you cannot read very well for there is no doubt that you didn't understand anything that I wrote

Night Hawk, by your own definition the South Korean military should all just sit in their barracks and polish their weapons for parades and nothing more. By extension so should our own military. We shouldn't practice different tactics that will keep us on the cutting edge of staying alive on the battle field and making another countries soldiers die for their cause instead of ours dieing for our cause. We should just show them their shiny new weapons and never let them use them so they have no idea how to employ them. That worked out so well in the past that we should just go with the flow and buy toys for them. I served this country and we did a lot of wargaming when I was assigned to ships, That included LIVE FIRE! You don't know what a weapon sounds like or feels like unless you fire it. The South Koreans have an unresolved war with North Korea. There isn't a Peace treaty. What if Mexico started arming their military and was massing it along the border of the southern US? Their intent was to reasume control of Texas New Mexico, Arizona, And southern California. Would you want our military to be at the top of their game? or just parade ground troops? I know what my answer is.

Lake.

Trying to talk sense to people like that is pointless. Your example for instance should include what if Mexico told us if we had our military conduct live fire on our own land they would attack us. Night hawk their would say no don't conduct the exercises cause another country with a dictator said we can't. He thinks the South can't train their soldiers for war and defense cause the North will attack. He thinks the North should be rewarded for there hostile actions by having the South stop any drills they are doing on there own land. I assume he also thinks that the South should get permission slips from the North before training there military. Cause if they don't get the country that has shown hostile actions constantly then they might attack. And since we can't train without the other countries permission if they do attack they won't be ready. What a joke

Wow, another goof who hasnt a clue on what has and still is going on over there, lol

Shut what down? China wants to get paid? I have no idea what this means. China practically owns the US dollor. They've already gotten paid.

Sad but true.

Im sure that SK knew that holding those drills there would raise tensions. The question is why did they do it then? Are they or the US or both looking to start a war? Or maybe they want the war in order to give them an excuse (and a good one) to go in and take out the South's nuke capabilities before they can create one that's small enough to be used on a warhead. I'm leaning towards that as an answer myself. The South will use an excuse to try and unite north and south and the US would be able to take out the nuke threat. All they need now is to provoke the South, spark a war so they don't look like THEY are starting one themselves. Then they can plead self defense.

and let us learn to spell dollar

Grisham;

Unfortunately, yes... something has to be afoot, and that scenario is likely. What better excuse to use to diffuse the North's nuke potential capabilities?

Not to get off topic, but Iran, us already being over there, and a different story. Perhaps more is known by intelligence and has been for some time....

Did you ever think that South Korea is legally having these drills to provoke a stupid response so they have a reason to take a target out? South Korea is noted to have the ball and the US has commented to back them. The US politically would not be the aggressor just the support and defence. Moderation is correct in my eyes about something being afoot.

In a fraction of a second the USA can drop China to its knees and I suspect we eventually will be forced to do so rather we want to or not.

How?

We change our currency, we default on all of our debts and boom our defict is null and void AND china has no trade with tus :)

Done and Done.

You think China owns us? LOL They only hold IOUs very little of real value and we can instantly seize all of there assets here. Sure our economy will be worthless compaired to the world but then we'll stop being the world police force and start again with isolationalism, which would reset our crappy workforce. We'd stop being government dependednt becuse the government would have no money to pay us and we'd all have to work to make things instead of it beingso service orientated

Ted...If they call in our debt we will have to pay up or have our economy crash almost completely...That and the world will never look at us the same and we will be likened financially to a 3rd World country....So yeah....They own us....

Ted-803281, that sounds good in theory. As long as China doesn't come for their "assets" and decide to start WWIII. Do you realize how many American based companies have "assets" in China?

Not necessarily; if the mortgage lender was 'TBTF' that owns my mortgage, but was actually allowed to fail I would have my house free and clear.... can't pay some business that's out of business, bankrupted.

It really wouldn't matter how I looked in other people's eyes, the fact is the fact and I wouldn't be worse off for it, I'd be on the upswing. Defaulting on a debt to China, having to actually manufacture, produce, and work in America for American wages so Americans can buy American products at American prices and live the American lifestyle?

Doesn't sound so bad to me.

China may call in there debt all they like BUT in effect they have nothing if we have nothing. They prosper when we prosper. This is the bait. The switch when it comes is the drawn out process of trying to collect and counter. Obviously it would cause quite the world commotion and have lasting effect for countries of all kinds.

At that point every American is again on the ready because of the actuality and possibility that America steps toward the precipice. To again step back after assuring yourself your place in time America could most likely rebound again as a super economy. War is always profitable and that is why there remains those people preferring to hold that side of the argument . Now, is it profitable for the Government? Well look at where we are financially there and it is not the best. But many company's have profited quite a bit. Which makes there interest to hold war longer and get paid. With political connections and lobbyist access that is a powerful thought to have. ; ]

Cheers.

Mowdy ... China can't "call in" the US debt that it holds. The best that it can do is sell it on the open market. Otherwise, it has to hold it until maturity.

Barry- that is likely the point.

Perhaps the immense 'debt' to China we have has something to do with decisions being made; that does give us some leverage, but also influences poor decisions based on known monetary, deflationary crash. These decisions don't take into account human lives, as that's not business....

I still maintain that this 'global economy' farce will land the few on top that are currently there and elevate them to a status beyond belief; standards won't be raised, but lowered to the lowest average 3rd world economy wage, America no exception and perhaps moving that direction the quickest. Our lawmakers, both sides, are doing nothing to stop this and are really accelerating it.

That being said, the closest allied force N. Korea has is China and none will be able to convince me they don't have or couldn't have a heavy influence on what N. Korea does, per ding-jong ( I don't lump N. Korea's populace into this). Parts of China are becoming like what America once was prior to wealth redistribution.... money talks, and China could have afforded to do much, much more (not in terms of appeasing through cash incentives for the little spoiled brat).

Taepodong-2 missle? Anywho, the regime seems to be collapsing, it's getting harder to control the North Korean population entirely, some even see cracks developing, Kim Jong-il is dying and maybe it's about time to end it all.

They have the missile, yes, however they do not have the capability to miniaturize their nukes enough to get them onto it.

Let us not forget that the North Korean Government 'still' has posession of the U.S.S. Pueblo, which still sits anchored in Pyongyang.

*possession

R. D. Palmer,

The 'Pueblo' has already been written off. So if NK attacks SK, it does not matter if it ends up at the bottom of the bay!

RD -

Yup. The only commissioned US naval ship being held captive.. It's a great story, worthy of a movie. The whole "flipping the bird" in propaganda photos was classic.. As well as the pun used in CO's confession to the North (We paean their great leader Kim II Sung).. LOL! Hilarious..

If war breaks out, we should sink the Pueblo ourselves. http://www.damninteresting.com shows some of the photos of the bird.

Victorrr- Isn't that the WhoFlungDung-2 Missile?

Chris...The do have the capability......

Duct tape....Loooots of duct tape.....

How accurate you think one of those "Duct Bombs" would be? Probably like a bottle rocket without a stick. Round and round she goes, where she stops, nobody knows....

Duct tape and a REALLY big compass for the guy riding it to aim towards....

I'd say that's what going on. The south is taking a stance.

It's like a bar fight about to break out... The trouble is that you can't tell them to take it outside.

Kim has been starving his people for decades to pump up his defense budget. Have you ever seen a satellite photo of that area of the World and seen how that country is unlit like the rest of the area? Talk about being in the dark ages....

Yeah, just look at Google Maps. There are almost no cars on the road, even in the capitol. Then, compare it to South Korea. Big difference. Kim Ping-Pong-ugh just wants to strip every right of his people, force them to believe he can "control the weather", and bolster his own profits and military.

With state controlled media, how do we know Kimmie is'nt blaming the shortages of anything on the rest of the world? Brainwashing is an effective tool for convincing people to "stand up against their oppressors". They don't get to see anything other than what Kimmie wants them to.

Jeremy,

Actually He (Kim) is brainwashing his people.. I recently saw a specail on North Korea, and the government is teaching all the children in the North that the "Evil empire of the United States" invaded North Korea which was what the Korean war was all about... Nothing about the North attacing the south.... it was all about how the United States invaded (or as the North Korean propaganda ministy puts it "tryed to invade") North Korea, and how we are their enemies...

Gray 8817 first of all the UN I think is lacking, now the UN is just words and loose promises and a false since of unity. I wish this was a game but unfortunately it's not. What do you think the sanctions were supposed to do? cut them off of coarse. well as you can see it hasn't stopped them from doing what they do. Now look on a map and see where Cuba is related to USA comparred to N Korea Oh Cuba is cut off from us but does have relationships with others and let's not forget some Cubans risk there lives to come to USA. Which brings me back to the UN who can't stop all forms of trade with anyone let alone N Korea wishful thinking since china sustains them anyway and China rarely agrees with the UN. We have roughly 28 to 30 thousand troops in S Korea but I would suspect that there's actually more well more than your few thousand in any case there must be a a good reason for that small amount yes there is.

Eric, if that happens there won't be a next time.

Yeah, the North will pretty much be turned into a scale model of the moon.

@D.Golden,

China is very new at this. They have just recently stepped onto the world stage and are very inexperienced. Until the last few years, China has always concerned itself only with events and activities in countries on its immediate border. This was pretty easy for them because it allowed them to act with only their own interests to consider. Then about 10 years ago, they ventured cautiously into Africa with only limited success and influence. (In fact the South Koreans have been more successful in African diplomacy than the Chinese.)

Now, because they are such an economic power and a permanent member of the UN Security Council, a lot more is being expected of the Chinese. And they are not on their game yet. They look at situations like Korea and they tend to look only to their own interests. That is their "old" way of thinking. But the government leaders are moving to younger and younger people (they are already younger than our government leaders) and these people are hesitating because they want to look at the longer-range implications in a "new" way of thinking.

They look at a situation like the Korean tensions and the "old" thinkers say that it is good to aggravate the U.S. and keep us occupied and "off the streets." But the "new" thinkers look at the same situation and relish trade with South Korea and the impact of conflict on Japan and the U.S. and the effect of hundreds of thousands or even millions of starving North Korean refugees flooding into China and they say, "Whoa, not so fast."

These are complex situations and there are no simple answers.

I was an intelligence analyst with the Far Eastern Watch Center/5th Air Force in the late 1960's. I have kept up with events since then and surprisingly little has changed in the regional dynamic except China. We did not have any simple answers then and the smartest people in both diplomacy and the military have failed to come up with any answers since then. It's just settled into a classic impasse.

There are always the "nuke 'em" folks and the "we can take 'em on" folks, but they have no idea what they are talking about. We have no bombs that can take out the 4th largest military in the world and if we tried, we would quickly find that it had swelled to the 2nd largest military in the world. The effects of nuclear weapons or bunker-buster bombs or fuel-air explosives are all highly over-rated. The only thing that works is a rifle and boots on the ground in the final analysis. And we simply do not have enough of those available to do the job.

China does need to take the lead in calming the situation down. But this is very difficult for them to do while keeping the older heads from diverting all efforts away from long-range goals to China's immediate self-interest as they always have in the past. They are simply not experienced enough in diplomacy to deal with this yet unless there is a stroke of brilliance that I have not yet seen.

Don't even get the UN involved. It has been useless for years now. Look at where they have sent there peace keeping forces and then watched as the people were kill within site of them. Time to get rid of the UN.

Kumbiya and all that happy horse S#!t?

Grow up you idealistic moron! There are some people out there that don't give a tinkers damn about being nice and wanting to get along with their neighbors. North Korea is a dictatorship in the hands of the mad and moronic. They don't care one bit for their people. They only care that they are in power and are terrified that they will lose control and be called to account for their crimes. The only thing that that sort understands is force. They need an example of what happens to the stupid and inept when they try and act like they are in charge. China makes it hard to control them but not impossible. South Korea has been marvelously patient in not launching an all out attack on the north because they have so much to lose in an unrestrained attack on the north. Even their Patience has to be wearing thin though.

In the end though, your kumbiya comment about being a bigger man by stepping down is drivel.

I don't think the fact that the US President doesn't want to drop a nuclear bomb on a cou8ntry makes him spineless or yellow. It's a last resort. It's frustrating reading comments after every news story where people constantly think the answer is dropping a nuke.

Obviously diana-2333148 you were not paying attention in elementary school. And after an asanine comment like that, you have not been paying attention in life for that matter. What an idiot....jeez.

Mr RD Palmer i agree with Diana..... if it were not for people like her Mr, you would be speaking Japanese and working in rice patties instead of your freedom. Get some balls Palmer, or you may be wearing a Burkha and speaking muslim and working as a slave for some cameljockey. We cannot let these third world countries keep spitting on us like we have, or they will observe that we are nothing but a spineless bunch of wusses, and will attack us over and over. 1. Announce that if North Korea fires at anytime in the south, you will lose one large city 2. If you continue your brazen attacks, you will lose your capitol

Maybe that will get their attention, and they will have advance warning as to what their unprovoked attacks will reap, and the hell with China..... They are doing everything in their power to undermine us and they are not our friends by any means.....If they want to get in on it, let them..

As a Viet Nam veteran that has "killed" a large number of individuals in those rice paddies from that part of the World, I really don't believe that a pair of "balls" need enter your reply. Your reply is just about as asanine as Diana's.
According to Ron Paul, a member of the house banking committee, we owe China about 2 & 1/2 trillion American dollars. Which really means that if they were to call the debt, YOU would probably be in the rice paddies trying to make a living. I suppose that Arkansas would be a great place to have paddies.
So, really it is a truth that Americans that shoot off their mouths about issues they do not have the first idea, let alone knowledge about, really make this Nation look under educated and ignorant. If the shoe fits there, Jeffie....

A perspective:
In the mid to late 1990s, during the Clinton Administration, the United States attempted to negotiate with North Korea. At the time, the Koreans were in the process of constructing a nuclear reactor. It would be capable of producing nuclear weapons grade plutonium. The US government entered an agreement that stated in essence, if the Koreans stopped work on the reactor the US, along with some EU nations, would provide them with a new light water reactor along with 500,000 tons per year of heavy fuel oil. The fuel oil to be used in the Korean oil fired power plants. US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright visited Pyongyang, and met with Kim Jong Il. At some time during the course of these "negotiations" the North Koreans felt it would be a good time to move the USS PUEBLO from Wonsan on Korea's east coast to her present position on the Taedong River at Pyongyang, on the west coast. This was a voyage of over 1000 nautical miles, all in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. The US Navy observed this transit but took no action. Ultimately, the Koreans did as they always do in "negotiations," they agree to the terms, then they just **renege! The Bush administration was next in line to learn the ways of North Korean "negotiating." Now the Obama administration is in office and is attempting to open a dialog with the North Koreans through the six party talks. The mission of the talks - to discuss the nuclear plant and their plutonium processing operation.

Diana and Jeff---You both need a serious wake up call. Do you even understand the magnitude of a nuclear attack? Are you really, really that ignorant? Read a book, go to college....go learn something. JEFF--you think third worl countries spit on us? Are you friggin kidding me?!?!? we exploit third world countries on a daily basis through U.S multinational corporations. Get a grip man.

R.D. Palmer,

First of all you just said that NK renigs on all there talks with all administrations. Well then what do you expect SK and the US to do talk some more?!?! Time to talk has long passed and anyone with a grade school education can see that.

Like it was stated above, if KJI does attack SK it is time to take his A$$ out. And about the money the US owe's China, I think they would have a hard time collecting that debt if it came down to a 'call' on it.

R.D. Palmer

As a Viet Nam veteran that has "killed" a large number of individuals in those rice paddies from that part of the World, I really don't believe that a pair of "balls" need enter your reply. Your reply is just about as asanine as Diana's.
According to Ron Paul, a member of the house banking committee, we owe China about 2 & 1/2 trillion American dollars. Which really means that if they were to call the debt, YOU would probably be in the rice paddies trying to make a living. I suppose that Arkansas would be a great place to have paddies.
So, really it is a truth that Americans that shoot off their mouths about issues they do not have the first idea, let alone knowledge about, really make this Nation look under educated and ignorant. If the shoe fits there, Jeffie....

This is absolutely rediculous. If they call their debt they wont get paid. We'll nullify the debt and refuse to pay them, at this point that's all we could possibly do anyway. What would they do attack us? That would mean we loos the great wonderfull states in the west to nukes and china turns into glass. Here in the east we smile and chear because we get out from under our debt and the assinine communist states of america are no longer..

I agree.... anyway, if China called the debt in, obama would just hire more printers and print the money we owe them. Mr Palmer brings up Viet Nam as to which i was in the first Cav in 67 and 68 so he is not the only one that "killed in the rice patties" so i do know a little about that. What i dont understand from a vet is why they think appeasment and always turning the other cheek will work in todays world. These people out there want us dead and will do anything they can in their power to see that your kids and grandkids die. You have to be blind to not see thru these people, and sometimes you need a graphic reminder to them that Allah is not on their side and if it takes a nuke, so be it. Its not the first time we have used them and it wont be the last. So Mr big time gook killer, i dont agree with you nor do i understand as to why you are in bed with the likes of obama either... he is spending faster than we can print

Jeff and Palmer demonstrate the mentality that got us run out of Viet Nam. A real soldier would not be so proud of killing people who were simply defending their country from invaders. LBJ took us based on a lie, much as Bush Jr did in Iraq. The last 50 years of American wartime history is nothing to be proud of.

Mr Cleareye, for your information, viet nam was unfortunately a political war in which they did not let the military do their thing. Politics screwed the whole deal up and if it were not for that, we could have kicked some ass from one end of the country to the other. A real American would not shoot his mouth off about people that when kids had to go and serve their country proudly. We only did what we were asked to do, but its people like you that i hope one day will be thankful for the American soldier that served his country and in some cases gave their lives for this country. You are just another liberal democrat that as far as i am concerned, is right along with obama and nothing more than a communist.

I think you are right on with this. NK is nothing but a mere puppet, yet the funny part is, I dont think they even know that. I belive that NK or at least the whack jobs at the top truly believe that ka-ka they spew.

It is unfortunate (very) unfortunate, but Ipredict we will no doubt see a World War III in the next 5-10 years, and while i believe we will prevail, I think it will far worse than the previous wars.

I am so tired of north korea and stupid threats!

Anyone who thinks that China has any control over North Korea clearly has never bothered to read up on east asian politics... I'm sorry to break it to you, guys, but that's a pretty childish and unrealistic assessment, and when lives are on the line we cannot afford to live in a fantasy world.

Galoot, I sure am glad you aren't in a position to make any government decisions. You'd have all of us killed. Moron.

I don't see China doing anything about the situation.... Other than coming in after NK is a parking lot and building more manufacturing plants so they can send us more junk.

China is totally behind it. Mainly because China is threatened by the US's intention to form an Asia NATO. These war games are unprecedented. Why do we need such insane military might when we fight people in rags? Imperialism by US. I'm not judging I'm just saying. We need to get off our high horse for a bit and take a look around at what we've done to create our own problems overall. I think it's mainly the tards in Congress and the administration. Clearly they don't have the public in mind. We may be the last superpower, but that doesn't mean we know everything.

You all should check out this site --> http://globalresearch.ca/ Canadians know best.

IF that's the case, John, why did China basically tell the North Koreans last week that they are on their own?

China is not behind any of North Korea's actions. In fact China warned North Korea that if they started anything with the south or America that they would be on their own. They also told them that if they did start something not to use any nukes. That was not a request from China but an If you do we will stomp on you very hard. North Korea is afraid of China.

I live in China and I know what is happening with China and North Korea. I also know that China would also welcome a united Korea under the South's leadership. They have a very good working relationship with the south politically and economically with a good balance of trade.

From their total lack of being able to make NK do what they want, China doesn't seem to have a whole lot of control. Even if they did, what are we supposed to do about it? Stop buying Chinese goods? Nothing in this country would even work. They've had us bent over a barrel for about a decade, and it's only going to get worse, so we may as well get used to it. As for NK, maybe the best thing we could do would be to give SK a nuclear program. That would make China scream, but it might make NK behave.

I really musy say that Americans are proving the addage -"Idiots travel in packs"

If you think that for one moment we would not fire shots at Russia for conducting "exercises" in an area that made us uncomfortable, you're dead wrong. Really, all you knobs that want us to kill everyone should be our front line--you certainly have the mental qualificationd to be a bullet catcher.

This doesn't have anything to do with China pushing it, it has to do with the fact that N Korea watched what we did to Iraq--we couldn't take Iraq while they had WMD's or the ability to defend themselves. so we softened them up with UN sanctions and weapons investigators then we plowed in under the false flag of "paving the way for Democracy" and eliminating all the "WMD's" to make the world safe for all.

They do not want to be part of our Empire.

Remember, any of those "exercises" could very easily become an invasion force. Those "exercises" are meant to train the people in that area for conflict AND to sum up potential weaknesses. Have you ever seen a komodo dragon catch its prey? It doesn't usually go in and completely devour its prey unless it is so large that it can. It only needs to land one bite. The bite is poisons the prey and keeps the wound from clotting so that it gradually kills its prey...maybe in a day...maybe over a week. During that time, the komodo dragon follows it prey and waits. Every so often, it tests the prey to determine if it is going to an easy target, If not, the komodo dragon waits--it knows it will eventually dine on the prey. In the meantime, other komodos gather due the scent of the non-clotting blood. They too wait patiently. When the time comes, they all pounce on the prey and feast upon it.

Sounds eerily like Operation Enduring Freedom...

You sound like your smoking the liberal democrat peace pipe and your head is filled with delusions.... You need to move to your paradise, Europe. There, you and the rest of the socialism nuts can sit around and watch yourselves go broke while appeasing anyone that threatens them. You people are so sad, and for some reason your exactly the type that believes if we would just shower muslims with money, they would leave us alone... Wake up and see whats going on and forget about all your dragons and s h i t you see when your smoking that crap.

The West? South Korea and Japan are not part of "The West". My god, you're ignorant.

NK is a creation of CHINA.

NK is on life support from CHINA.

NK would cease to function if CHINA stopped it's support. (Get it yet?) Cease to function. (Got it now?) Couldn't function. (Now?) Couldn't do anything...including have a functioning military. (How about now?)

All CHINA has to do is stop it's support of NK.

CHINA is 100% responsible for all of this. And has been for decades.

Lowlife scumbag Ghetto Mamas raise their lowlife scumbag Ghetto Monsters who go out to terrorize the cities. They raise them that way, continue to feed them, continue to clothe them and continue to provide a place for them to stay. If it weren't for the lowlife scumbag Ghetto Mamas, the Ghetto Monsters would have nothing to eat, nothing to wear and nowhere to lay their heads at night. They would cease their criminal activity due to lack of logistical support. It would be impossible for them to continue.

CHINA, like the lowlife scumbag Ghetto Mamas, continues to pretend that it is in no way responsible for all the damage their criminal NK creation causes.

All CHINA has to do is 'pull the support plug' on NK. That's it. CHINA won't do it, though, because this is exactly what CHINA wants NK to do.

The Western world needs to give preferential trade treatment to India now. CHINA thinks it's the only game in town...which it kinda is...temporarily.

Build India up as a manufacturing giant and give CHINA a backseat.

Once that starts happening, miraculously, you will see that, in fact, CHINA can and will do something about their NK Ghetto Monster.

CHINA caused the problem, supported the problem...for decades...and CHINA can end the problem anytime they want.

Just - pull - the - plug.

It's really that simple.

Spoken like a person who has no knowledge whatsoever of east asian politics, Galoot. China has no more control over North Korea than Justin Bieber does.

Only a mild exaggeration: Bieber is supposed to be very popular in many parts of Asia. On the other hand, Toasty is correct: China does not wield the influence over North Korea that many people would like to believe it does.

lol, damn, I should have chosen a different celebrity! DAMN YOU JUSTIN BIEBER!

Excellent point, China would never allow reunification

fed29457, you or Galoot, know absolutely nothing about China. China would welcome a unified Korea under the leadership of the South Koreans. For several reasons. One being they have better economic and trade relations with the south to start with. Another is they would not have to support the south because they already have an economy that would rebuild itself and China would not be burdened with having to rebuild Korea. The only reason China assist the North Koreans is because of a treaty signed in 1943 by Stalin, Churchill, and President Roosevelt.

Jeff,

You sound like a guidon bearing, card-carrying, lifetime member of the Nazi Party. You spew forth insults but they carry no further than your snout before they fall on the ears of the intelligent as nothing more than "BAAA....Sieg heil....BAAA". Are you sure your Fuhrer has authorized you to open your mouth?

Hey Jeff, took a little time to explore what you said...I "sound like I'm smoking the liberal democrat peace pipe".

Are you trying to imply that I sound like these men?

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
Thomas Jefferson

I am mortified to be told that, in the United States of America, the sale of a book can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal inquiry too.
Thomas Jefferson

I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
Thomas Jefferson

A well-instructed people alone can be permanently a free people.
James Madison

All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree.
James Madison

Despotism can only exist in darkness, and there are too many lights now in the political firmament to permit it to remain anywhere, as it has heretofore done, almost everywhere.
James Madison

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
James Madison

Of all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
James Madison

We are right to take alarm at the first experiment upon our liberties.
James Madison

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy

Again, James Madison

Have you ever stopped to think about how over two hundred years ago they understood and embraced the way the world REALLY operates, were kind enough to come together and write it down, and provide you the freedom to be stupid enough to neither read nor understand what they meant?

Or do you not understand because they didn't use intelligent words like Sarah Palin's "refudiate" or because they lacked the literary and grammatical finesse of Bush?--evidenced by such great wisdom imparting quotes as "There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again."

Oh wait, if I were intelligent like you and the rest of the acutely obtuse right, here is where I would say "BAAAA...Seig Heil....BAAAA....Seig Heil".

And just where do you expect the money to come from to "end" this? I'm on SSA and I am tapped out. I can barely keep my bills paid, much less support another war...

When we attacked Iraq, we did so on the notion that they might have WMDs, and yet at the time we knew North Korea did have them. But North Korea had no oil. Alas, North Korea knows we have overreached.

We don't attack NK because of communist China, not because they don't have oil. Pay attention please.

Further more, it wouldn't be just us getting involved. There are treaties in place, similar to NATO, that would go into effect if NK attacked SK.

There is a transfer of power going on in NK, and this is posturing to strengthen support for the new leader. NK does not want an all out war. They know they would lose. But the world has gotten tired of their lies and threats.

China will keep NK going at any cost. NK knows China has their back, so they feel confident they can do just about anything they want to and get away with it. Doesn't matter if China likes them or not.

Why else would China plead with everyone to start yet another round of pointless negotiations? Because they want a buffer state between them and the rest of the world. If a few million North Koreans starve to death to support that? What does China care as long as the NK govt stays intact.

And you plan on stopping the Chinese aid how?

If I were you, I would enroll in the nearest World History 101 class and get "re-educated." You really need to be enlighened about the whole Korean War, and what the treaty dictates that the North did 'not' sign.

Appeasement never works Rick. And suggesting we should dictate to SK what they can or can't do is rather arrogant. They are the ones living under constant threat, not us.

What is happening is SK and the rest of the world are telling the new regime, we aren't going to take their crap, not now, not ever.

FIRST, The live fire that was the supposed reason for the N Korean attack was aimed AWAY from N Korean land. This was just another unprovoked attack by N Korea. The North knew in advance of the barrage that it would be aimed south of their lands but chose to respond with their own barrage aimed and civilians. Does this sound like a rational government or military? I don't support killing of any type but there has to be a limit to what is allowed. The capitol building of North Korea needs to intercept a cruise missile with a thousand pound warhead. That might just drive home the point that the South has had enough of their crap.

R.D>---would that be the World Histroy class where the Gulf of Tonkin incident happened or no?

Gadzooks>---While the US is on its real estate roundup, do you think other world governments should catch on that 'appeasement never works'

Does nobody see this as North Korea's refusal to allow the US to do to them what we did to Iraq? What we want so very badly to do to Iran? Any of the countries labelled by Bush as members of "The Axis of Evil" are absolutely 100% within their right to take arms and defend themselves. Bush told the world we were going after them---after watching the events in the Middle East, why would they doubt it? We already have to talk them into nuclear disarmament. If they paid attention, the disarmament of WMD's was one of the first steps in the take over of Iraq.

IF YOU WERE TOLD THAT US WERE COMING FOR YOU AND YOU SAW THE US CONDUCTING WAR EXERCISES WITH ANOTHER COUNTRY CLOSE TO YOUR COUNTRY, WHAT THE HELL WOULD YOU DO? I'll tell you right now, I'd fire a warning shot and if that didn't get the point across...

NK has absolutely no authority to tell Sk when or where they can hold military exercises on there territory. To say Sk is provoking NK is total bull. NK has sunk a SK ship and threatened to nuke, go to war, and destroy SK just about every other week.

Saying SK is provoking them by conducting these exercises is basically saying that you are rewarding the north for there unjust assault on SK. Now SK must seek the Norths permission on when and where they can hold military drills. And that the South shouldnt cause the North might attack? So the south has to comply with the Norths demand. Seems to me the North is the one doing provocative measures. Like shooting missles over Japan, testing nukes in the face of the UN. Sinking SK ships. But if the South conducts a military exercise they are at fault?

. Go and reward the Norths hostile actions by saying SK should not hold drills on there soil cause the north might attack. maybe next time the North will bomb a city and sink another ship and then you can reward them more by saying the South should not train militarily cause the North will attack and we want to avoid war and not blaming the people dead set on war which seems to be the North. They attack and threaten war unless talks are started. So we should reward that behavior till they think that more attacks will mean more rewards

Tw1sted

IF the US had not said that it was going to go after North Korea, you might have a point. IF there were a peace treaty between North and South, you might have a point. IF the US were not involved in these joint exercises, you might have a point. IF the US had not said that they would do everything to prevent North Korea from gaining a nuclear capacity to defend themselves, you might have a point. IF the US had not already demonstrated that it can fabricate data, make fools of almost the entirey of its nation, and invade a nation without provocation, you might have a point. IF they were conducting these exercises in an area other than the area given to South Korea by the UN and to this day still not recognized by North Korea, you might have a point. IF the exercises carried out were not, in fact, designed to increase the coordination of South Korean troops and US troops in a military action against North Korea, you might have a point.

IF "if"s and "but"s were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

But the reality however, is that all of those things are true and North Korea has every right to see it as an act of aggression.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT THAN THE US GETTING ALL WORKED UP ABOUT RUSSIAN MISSILES IN CUBA!!!!

Seriously, you sheep need to find another mantra to chant besides "BAAA...Seig Heil!....BAAA....Seig Heil!"

Jeepers

When did we ever say we where going after the North? Please provide proof that we have ever said we would attack the North. If you do then maybe you'll have a point.

Seriously!?!?

Ahem...

Okay.

"Our second goal is to prevent regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction. Some of these regimes have been pretty quiet since September the 11th. But we know their true nature. North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens."

-State of the Union Address, 2002

He also lumped them into his "Axis of Evil" as country that harbors terrorists and said has said that the war in the Middle East is a war on terroism.

"These enemies view the entire world as a battlefield, and we must pursue them wherever they are. (Applause.) So long as training camps operate, so long as nations harbor terrorists, freedom is at risk. And America and our allies must not, and will not, allow it. (Applause.)

-State of the Union Address, 2002

I do apologize that nobody came to your classroom and connected the dots with a crayon, but leaders from around the world understood the threat, even other politicians in our government understood it...AND MOST DEFINTELY, NORTH KOREA UNDERSTOOD IT.

US Under Secretary of State John Bolton also said---

"States that sponsor terror and pursue WMD (weapons of mass destruction) must stop. States that renounce terror and abandon WMD can become part of our effort, but those that do not can expect to become our targets"

Lets see for starters I was stationed at Osan A.B. South Korea. Next I guess I'll have to teach you how to post a link seeing as that's what I asked for.

Now as for the State of the Union address: The entire address can be found here

americanrhetoric.com/speeches/stateoftheunion2002.htm

Notice how he keeps going back to the middle East but not one word on we shall start fighting in North Korea...just a blip mention. He also mentioned creating jobs to help end welfare but he outsourced us to China starting that same year. Here's a hint if your gonna fight a war you don't reduce the troops numbers in that area. Which was under draw down and relocation.

First off, you may want to go back and reread..you didn't ask for a link, you asked for proof. I gave you the quote and where it came from and again, you expect someone to connect the dots with crayon.

He keeps going back to the Middle East to focus attention on the matter at hand. You still have no counter for the statement by the US Under Secretary and how it connects to the statements made by Bush.

Leaders around the world (including American politicians) made the connection, how then can you not?

Here, let me connect this dot with a big, thick crayon for you...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1796034.stm

So that I might be able to paint it in a light you'll understand...

George walks into a room and tells Ron, Bobby, and Ricky, if you don't do exactly as I say, I'm going to kill you. Moments later, he walks over with Jimmy and he blasts Ron in the face. Now you're telling me that when he walks over to Ricky and begins reloading the gun that he is not threatening Ricky because he didn't bring Jimmy?

What color crayon would you like next?

Allow me to make the connections for you so maybe your young mind will understand.

NK is a pain in the butt which does a lot of saber rattling but has no real teeth. GWB and all the other world leaders understand this. Why because China will not come to it's aid in a WAR and NK wants to appear stronger than they are. Why because they have no real resources and it's people are starving. Instead of doing the one thing to show it's an adult and ready to take a seat at the grown-ups table they try to be the school yard bully.

The clown they have as a leader doesn't want to appear weak and knowing the world knows he is a weak minded dimwit he doesn't fear an attack because nobody wants to be viewed as picking on the helpless.

It's called lip service. When your done playing with your crayons will move you up to water colors. When you develope some more will let you use real paint.

Wow, you know what, the things you describe are also things that other governments of the world are saying about our looting of the Middle East. I believe school yard bully and USA are synonymous in many parts of the world.

I realize that since I put you in your place about the fact we DID announce our intent, and made it clear that North Korea is justified in perceiving this as a threat, you would like to do the equivlalent of "Oh look, a rabbit" and discuss why North Korea should be invaded. That's great, it just further bolsters my original point in stating they have a right to see this as a threat. LOL...Thanks for the assist.

You challenged my post concerning our intent as far as North Korea is concerned. Because you had not the knowledge, you asked for it. I gave it to you, but I didn't put a pink bow on it. You whined, so I put a pink bow on it. Now, you want to talk about another package entirely.

I think if you (and this time, I mean you...I'm not coddling you anymore) take some time to do some actual research, you will a great increase in the posturing of North Korea AFTER the statements I educated you to earlier. It's pretty much the same defense mechanism the frilled lizard employs to ward off predators and rivals--it does this so it DOES NOT have to fight. This technique, not unique to lizards, is used by people everywhere as a defense mechansim.

I can see right now that I'm going to have to buy more crayons for you and a roll of paper towels. The crayons because you keep eathing them and licking the window to make rainbows and the paper towels to clean your drool puddles.

Serioulsy though, the powers that be couldn't have asked for a better sheep than the one they found in you...

I'll now leave you to join your flock in their bleating "BAAAA...Seig Heil!!!...BAAAA...Seig Heil!"

No kid you didn't. GWB called them a threat but never once said "We will attack North Korea". Do try to keep up. Displaying your ignorance of the subject and then trying to brag only shows just how childish you can be.

Will gives kudos for the attempt however. It was lame but your trying so..golf clap..have a nice day.

MY ignorance? Whoa, step out of the dark with the mushrooms and turn on the light. For the US to simply claim "We will attack Korea" would put us in a situation to have to explain ourselves to the UN. To continue this global assault on any weaker government that opposes us, the US needs allies.

Instead, the language of diplomacy is used and the threat is still carried across. If world governments (including our own) understand this threat and clearly said they felt Bush crossed the line, how then by your failure to understand this am I the ignorant one? World leaders knew exactly what he was saying...again, time for you to do some research. By your rationale, calling someone "vertically challenged" is not the same thing as calling them short. While they are not the same verbatim, they carry the same meaning and intent.

I understand though that in your world only if GW had come out and side "We will attack Korea" in that EXACT verbage would you be able to understand it, this much you have made clear.

You don't quite grasp that the comments "Tigers are a threat. I will eliminate big cats that are a threat" equate to "I will eliminate tigers" but regardless of whether or not you choose to keep your head in the sand, the tiger is justified in getting prepared for conflict--especially when it sees the hunter loading its gun.

A child can be taught this--guess it proves the old saying --"No fool like and old fool.

An a 2 blip mention of NK is not the same as call to war. Plain and simple an in the words of the Diplomat "Where watching you" is all it meant.

You need to read more and when you listen you need to pay attention. There is another old saying "Old enough to know better and wise enough to know". Your missing one and it shows with each post.

How in the h*** does your comment sustain anything that is in this article? Another High School C- student. Obama has nothing to do with what is going on in Korea since 1959. Get educated, fool!

Michael is still drinking the mantra from Obama that somehow keeping taxes the same rate as they are, are "tax breaks for the rich". Why dont you crawl back in your ghetto and turn on Keith Obermann and enjoy his ranting and raving and brain wash he passes out to little liberals like you. You people that were lazy and shiftless with jobs that do not pay as well as others, and you people that dont save your money and spend foolishly and now find yourselves in deep s h i t, and just go cry in your beer and whine all you want about "the tax cuts for the rich" but your party lost so suck it up. Hopefully someday we will outlaw this welfare society you democrats seem to think helps everyone, and go back to forcing people to actually work for a living instead of sitting on their a s s e s.... Tell me one thing.... why do you democrats feel that the people that work hard and save their money, are the most evil people in the country? You people are sickening.

MICHAEL - you are a mindless blithering liberal idiot. HALF the households (Bottom 50%) in the US pay ZERO income taxes, and nearly HALF of them receive NEGATIVE income benefits (bottom 25%). The top 25% of income earners pay 88% of the income taxes. That leaves the "Middle class" or middle 25% of income earners to pay 12% of the remaining.

Why don't you mindless liberals start researching FACTS for a change instead of regurgitating the same childish LIES about taxes and tax cuts? Besides it is not a CUT. It's a CONTINUATION of the CURRENT tax rate.

Now go back and wet your bed, you jackwagon!

Michael, you must be one of the rich and can afford to have your taxes raised. And what in the H-LL does this have to do with NK and SK???? Get a life!!!

well, i havnt seen much imput from the soldiers that are over here so ill put in my two cents. being an army soldier over here while all this is going on,,is really lame. lol. its a constant back and forth everytime they open this rhetoric and threatening and its starting to make me wish that we did just strike first. ive been told that if they did fire first, our life excpectancy is something like 36 seconds.... we are soooo close to the border that if one salvo from different locations, all pointed at us right now on the borders were to hit the MASSive populated areas right next to us there would be millions dead. 3 minutes and you would have Seoul, a beautiful city, leveled. if the north does strike first, then it could be devastating, and right now we are all vamped up in case of something does happen, but in my opinion waiting for that to happen first is a mistake. but i dont think that the north is stupid enough to start shelling Seoul. military instalations yes, ROK soldiers would take a blunt impact first, the us troops here arnt that large in numbers. but either way...it sux, cause a lot of people will die if the north has the balls to actually hit Seoul. on the other side of the coin, u have the air force and navy, that would rain some woopass on them the second they did anything. so most likely it would end in a few short weeks of cruise missle and air assault strikes just like iraq. take out the nuke enrichment factories, drop the bulk of their artillary and missile systems off the face of the earth then let them try to talk back at us. they wouldnt be saying anything after that. leave the government and make them realize that their efforts in trying to become a radical nukelear power were totaly stupid. forgive my spelling...i could put more interesting things down, but i like my security clearance where it is ;) the main point im making... south and north korea are in this with themselves. for 60 years they have been going back and forth like this. the us will most likely not have much of an impact unless directly targeted, which we havnt yet. south korea may be a bit out of line for firing drills 7 kilometers from north shores, but either way, if the two talked out a price for the island, and if the north wanted it soo bad, they could always buy the dumb thing, its tiny...lol. sure its a nice little spot, but its right off the coast of the north, not a fun spot to go hang out at. its more of a nuicance to the north because of its proximity, ill give them that one. alls it is an artilary barge parked right in their backyard. the two countries need to be slapped by everyone else and tell them to either duke it out, or come to a mutual agreement on the major issues they have with each other. i for one, do not want to go to war with them right now. its freezing right now, and i want to have a christmas with what family i have here :)

7km from their shores, we just had a Chi-Com sea to air missle fired off our coast. Our Response, cut our submarines, anti-missle defense and NUKES. TRAITORS!

Too many video games for you!

Certainly don't need another repeat of M*A*S*H. I hope to GOD will never come to that! History has a bad habit of repeating itself.

Actually Gen. MaCarthur(SP?) was told time, and again to not to push past a river in the extreme north of Korea because the Chinese had concern about a US lead invasion of their country. When MaCarthur continued to advance even though he was warned time and again the Chinese felt threaten and "defended" their country. This is the main reason for MaCarthur being "fired".
Also North Korea was a child of the Soviet Union with China playing only a very small role in its birth.
Wars are good for enlightening people about terror, and death..(Hell, they aren't even good at helping the economy anymore.) People who believe otherwise typically know they wont be one of those fighting in it.

Update. China lost, according to one CHINESE offical, 400.000 THOUSAND troops in the Korean conflict--that means they sent in plenty more than 400,000. China also sent hundreds of thousands of her troops against us (again) in the Nam war. Research helps * Merry Christmas * to our troops. Hillary 2012.

EL Marr, your are mostly correct in your post. Where you are errant is in the 400,000 PVA troopsthat entered into North Korea. It was 600,000 troops. They were almost annihilated to the man. There was not enough of them to make a Battalion or troops when the Marines fought their way out of the Chosin Resivoir bring all the soldiers and Marines that were dead or wounded with them. That was the third time the Marines had advanced to the Chinese border. You are correct in the fact that China was worried about a US invasion. That is the reason Mao Ze Dong sent the PVA into Korea. He had two objectives in mind. One was to try to drive the US forces back south. The other was to find out how best to fight US forces. He achieved both objectives.