And who can we thank for your stupidity? The MORAL decay, as you put it, has been going on for a good long time, much longer than two years. Something like that cannot be blamed on politics or an area such as Washington, D.C. Someone's morals lie within themselves. WOW! Some people!

Well said.

I highly doubt that boy knows the difference between a Republican and a Democrat -- sheesh. The people that bring their extremists POLITICS into a tragic story like this need to rearrange their priorities.

The court was told that found a .22 caliber handgun and

"I sincerely believe that you can rehabilitated," the judge told the boy.

Isn't anything proof-read anymore before publishing? The article sounds like an inarticulate foreigner is speaking. Since a "chaotic life" is too broad a description, one can only imagine what this boy was going through. Was he beaten? Denied food? Screamed at constantly? Is he an only child?

So you eqate Clinton having sex in the Oval Office as being on the same level as the shenanigans, for want of a better term, of the presidents I mentioned. REALLY? Look, I am not condoning Clintons actions with Monica Lewinsky but, his getting sex did not affect or effect national policy, did not affect or effect anyone's life except him and his family and Lewinsky. You really need to get over the whole "bj" thing. Maybe you would feel less ummm frustrated, yes that's it, frustrated in your own life if you got your own Oval Office action going on, if ya know what I mean.

elsabio,

it does seem that proofreading is in serious decline. I notice it more and more.

Sandie and The Thinker -- this is NOT about politics!

This is about a tragedy happening to a 13 year old boy and his parents/steps! It didn't matter WHO was sitting in the WH, it had no bearing on this incident.

Beth,

Of course, you are correct. Mea culpa. So..... who'd you vote for? LOL!

I know I am going to get slammed for this ("you'll bruise their poor little ego's, if you spank them"); I have an aunt and uncle, who refused to spank (I'm not talking about beating) their children, they did that "time out" thing. They were the only ones on either side of my family that didn't spank their kids. Now, they have the only children in the entire family, who do not hold jobs (they were all 3 sent to college), constantly are asking their parents (who can not afford it) to give them money, have had to be bailed out of jail (even the daughter) more than once, one of the boys actually went to prison for 2 years for DWI's. He's lucky he didn't kill someone; he still doesn't have a driver's license, his Mom drives him to work; if he quits his job they will send him back to jail.

Without punishment, that will be remembered, a child doesn't learn the boundaries of acceptable behavior. The definition of a spanking is: when you have a hard time sitting down, but there is no permanent damage or bruises. Grandma was the one I feared; she went for the willow branches, those suckers raised welts. I only got one spanking from Grandma, that was enough for me.

My parents taught us to respect our elders; you did not talk back to Mom, not if you wanted to sit down at the dinner table that night. What ever Mom asked you to do, it was "yes, ma'am" and you did it; my Dad did not tolerate disrespect. Yet, I also recall a time, when I defended one of the kids from special education class (he was crippled and had leg braces; a bully tripped him), by punching a bully in the gut...I got suspended for 3 days...when Mom picked me up at school, she asked me what I did, I explained it to her. She didn't say a word all the way home. I figured I was dead for sure when Dad got home; Mom met him outside. They were out there for about 15 minutes; I heard the back door open, and Dad's boots coming down the hallway. He sat down beside me on the couch and said, "Girl, I don't agree with how you handled the problem; but, I would have probably done the same thing. Anyone that bullies a crippled kid, deserves a good punch in the gut." That doesn't mean I got off scot free: in those 3 days I was suspended, I had to clean out the garage, the out-building and the attic, plus do all of my regular chores. I was so tired at the end of those 3 days, I welcomed going back to school. I think he made me do all the cleaning, so that I would think twice about how I handled the next problem I encountered.

My reason for telling that long story is this; I don't think I ever got a spanking that I didn't deserve. Mom and Dad were fair; he could have blistered my rear end for beating up that boy at school, but he didn't. He wanted me to realize that some things are worth fighting for, but not neccesarily with your fists. It was a lesson I have never forgotten; and I thank God for the parents that I have, they are wonderful people; some kids aren't that lucky.

It sounds like this boy, is one of those children that weren't so lucky. I hope he learns from his mistake, takes the opportunity the judge has given him, and straightens his life out. Being abused as a young child can have some horrible consequences. That is why child molesters should never be released on society again.

I'm not sure what your point is...are you saying that the boy probably killed his parents because they didn't spank him when he misbehaved and he was "spoiled"?

@Marie Pierce

Thank you so much for that anti Adlerian bit of drivel.

Violence begets violence, no matter how you attempt to skirt the pretense. You now advocate applying physical harm to a child. You are the proof.

I would guess you are also pro choice. In your world it is OK for a Parent to kill it's child, but an atrocity for the child to kill it's parent, even though the chances are that the latter has far more indication.

Consider the message you are sending.

Enjoy your new world order, you asked for it.

@ Marie Pierce

Well said.

@ Hatchet-101

What new world order are you talking about? I believe she's insinuating that we should return to the way things were, when kids had to respect their parents, and when parents wanted that respect, rather then their kids friendship.

Oh, and thanks for your "drivel".

PJ - or is it at all possible that his parents were EXACTLY like Marie Pierce's parents...but perhaps the kid didnt care for parents who discipline and decided he'd had enough?

My parents RARELY spanked us...and my oldest brother, who's the big success in our family - finished college, is an engineer, used to laugh in my mom's face when she would try to spank him. He would turn, look at her and laugh the entire time...see, he was smart even at a young age, to realize a spanking is not a punishment. It stings for a short bit...who cant tolerate that? Who is truly fearful that a spanking will become blatant abuse? Not my brother...

Meanwhile, all three of us have turned out fairly well - with good steady jobs, we dont borrow anything from our parents, and we are all responsible upstanding citizens.

Contrast that with my partners parents, who's dad was a state police officer and he used to spank them quite a bit as kids, and they were always fearful of breaking the law (because he was a cop) and only my partner can say thats she's a responsible adult. The adult son has had his house foreclosed on, been evicted from homes they rented and they have 2 kids...and they still borrow insane amounts of money from their parents. The middle son, has been the endless college student - refusing to grow up and get a real job with all that education, and isnt paying for a cent of it...and now is awaiting a rape trial thats been going on for 2 years - and during that time, he's not been able to work or go back to school.

So Marie Pierce, as you can see...even with similiar circumstances, the outcome can still be so different.

Big DM - I believe she's insinuating that we should return to the way things were, when kids had to respect their parents, and when parents wanted that respect, rather then their kids friendship.

Can you explain to me HOW kids HAD to respect their parents? What was going to happen if they didnt? A bruttal spanking? Really? Or were they going to beat the bloody pulp out of them? Or kill one of the kids to send a message to the rest? Im being serious...I think kids feared their parents before, unrealistically...and those smoke and mirrors are gone.

Unless of course, you want to replace smoke and mirrors with actual death and or severe bodily damage to really get through to the kids who dont care?

My parents were never my "friend" when I grew up...but they didnt spank me much or really level any real discipline down. They simply educated me and raised me and did their best to impress upon me WHY I should be a good kid...not relying on fear to be my educator. Im sure fear works for some, but not many...

that said, I see lots of parents raising good kids - without fearing them into it...so obviously, there isnt only one way. But EFFORT on the part of the parents does matter.

The kid is a confessed murderer, but I do hope that he can be rehabilitated, that's a good call by the judge.

I'm surprised the judge could still do that, given how badly our judicial system has been screwed up by idiots hell-bent on mandatory vengeance.

LOL

Hey, MAXON!!!!!

Moral decay?

When Bush senior spoke of "a thousand points of light"...those were the campfires of the homeless, languishing under the sick domestic policy of Anus Regan, that bastard who threw away hundreds of thousands of mentally ill people like so much garbage so his government and fellow whores could save some money.

Moral decay my a55. I was there, I had to spend years feeding and trying to shelter homeless, hungry people because of Anus Regan, and watch them suffer and die, in violence, despair, and freezing cold.

@ Jessica: I just cannot imagine any kid killing his parents when only normal discipline was involved. What would be the point? I wish that he would have done something different, like talk to the police or a school counselor, or his dad. But he chose the path he did, and now he will be locked up for years and hopefully become rehabilitated. The whole story is just so sad.

I love the adjectives used to describe spanking. Brutal, horrendous, and violence begets violence. You are all so perfect with yours sweet well behaved children who sit so nicely in your time out chair and listen to every little thing you tell them to do. Bravo to you! How in the hell do you equate a parent spanking one time on the rear with their hand as a brutal beating? I have seen parents never lay a hand and use time outs yet give BRUTAL verbal beatings to their children everyday. Mental abuse..you are so stupid, you can't do anything right. I won't waste my time with you. Etc.

I too have a family member raised 11 years apart from me. Never got spanked. Had 4 cars bought for her because she wrecked them. Can't hold a job and is married with a child and she still lives off her father. She also begs money off my mother. She has no self worth and knows nothing of the meaning of respect, value of money or family. It's all about her.

So please keep your drivel about your perfect parenting to yourself. Every child born into this world reacts to discipline different. I have 3 and each one responded to a different form. I had to adapt and I tell them how much I love them and explain everything I do to them. I despise when people like you come out and start throwing your know it all attitudes up.

@BigDM

I believe the term you wanted was inferring, not insinuating, as the latter is accusatory. You might have realized that with more education. You might also have realized that corporal punishment upon children occurs when the perpetrator is insufficiently educated toward viable option. I would hope that you choose to educate your children better, though your statement suggests otherwise.

Those who do not seek viable option are abusers.

The new world order that I speak of is made up of those abusers.

They are those who would rather dish out a good spanking than find a viable solution. They are the governments of the world that would sooner condone violent dissolutions rather than find amicable and amiable means to resolve differences.

The worst of those perpetrators follow the anti Adlerian pyschologies, which are readily evident in the manners of what is socially acceptable within their respective countries. Deny this and we can conclude you will remain insignificant to the resolve, as you cling so tightly to that bubble you choose to live in.

Everyone commenting on this story with these stupid political rants/ tangents should be flagged for inflammatory or no value.

We're talking about 2 people mudered and a kid that's going to have to start all over again and try to live his life, if that's even possible, stay on the subject folks.

Hatchet

Please educate me on your other viable solutions? Alderian also believed pampering children and neglecting children were just as evil.

Young boys molested in the Ozarks?

Impossible!!!

It appears from the article the boy's molestations were not in dispute but acknowledged fact, so

Sounds like the kid knew he was going to get another nighttime visits from Daddy and was so afraid he even asked a neighbor to stay over..most likely in hopes this would deter another assault...

The Department of Mental Health should grow some guts and admit who the molester was his Father and the Father should have been in prison.

And of the Father's Sister's words "She urged the boy to find God" don't ring to me..Looks like God fed him to the wolves and he did what "God", Mental Health Dept., Child Services, & Law enforcement couldn't.

Give him a medal

@anamerican

In my opinion, every situation requires an approach that is applicable to that situation. There is no standard course because there is no standard person.

'We are all unique, just like everybody else.'

There are no easy answers. If there was an easy answer, there wouldn't be a question.

Clinical histories, present status' quo, and a plethura of well documented research illustrate the point perfectly.

Educating ourselves, borrowing from the wisdom of others, and drawing our own conclusions is the best we can hope for to achieve those answers. Any one of us is nothing more than the accumulation of our life experience and what we may have been able to rationalize from it, or derive emotion within it.

As I see it, the fact remains that education is the best answer we have.

If this 11-12 year old child were better educated, he would have found viable discourse. If his parents were reasonably educated, they would not have faced an execution at the hand of their own child. It may be that they lacked the practical wisdom to apply the education they were afforded, it may not.

All in all.. an education never hurt anyone, a lack of hurts everyone.

Hatchet makes a good point. Parenting involves finding the solution that brings about a behavior change in the child. The one, above, who laughed at spanking obviously was not a child for whom that was effective.

I was spanked only for willful disobedience, breaking a rule for which I knew spanking was the penalty. My parents (usually my mother) almost never spanked in anger (or, at least, not within my perception) and only with the bare hand. I spanked my children under the same principle. My daughter, however, did not learn from spanking and we had to find other means of training, usually denial of certain pleasures.

I believe that a child who is never punished grows up to disregard rules of many kinds. Such people have to learn as adults what they should have learned as children: that society has rules and customs to be obeyed by us all and to disobey those rules brings certain penalties. These may be social disgrace, financial loss, jail time, or the denial of priveleges, to mention only a few. You can see in some of the posts above the results of children who were not taught these social principles.

Thank you @Cinclodesfuscus

I am unsure if it will help anyone at all, but sharing a point of my lifes' experience is the best I can do.

My son was four years old and extrememly fond of dinosaurs. He loved the "land before time" series and would watch anything he could on the subject. He was anxious to learn.

One day he was playing and pretending he was a dinosaur. He ran over to his mother and bit her. He had never done anything like that before. He was too young to rationalize that his sharp little teeth, combined with the strength of the jaw, could pose injury.

His mom would tell you that it really hurt. She teared up but waited for my reaction. She did not want to act out of anger or pain.

I did not spank my child.

I took him to a table and sat down with him and a dictionary. I wrote his name down on a piece of paper. We went through the dictionary together. I explained that he must find a word for each letter in his name. After he found one I found another pertaining to the pain he caused.

My sons name has 7 letters. We made it to the 5th letter when he suddenly welled up with emotion and started crying. He then ran over to his mother and wrapped his arms around her and kept saying he was sorry. She hugged him back and began to cry as well.

This emotional lesson, this practical lesson, this educational lesson insured us all that my son would not even chance hurting anyone without good reason. The issue never rose again.

If I had chosen to spank him, he very well may have learned that it is not ok to hurt others. More likely, he would have learned that hurting others is not acceptable, although quite effective in commanding what is expected. That would have been exactly what I would be doing had I spanked him, would it not?

Corporal punishments only address 3 issues. Acceptable behavior, Fear, and Consequence. These are not what I consider valued.

I went for the whole idea. It addressed Behavior, Sorrow and Remorse, Emotional consequence, Proactive and Reactive reinforcement, Interrogatory solution, and favorable outcome. All this from a 4 year old child. The pride was not mine, but my pride in him.

Yours et al.

You have alot of time on your hands don't you? So, please tell me what you would do with a toddler who sticks their fingers in a light socket, have a 20 minute sit-down with them and explain the concept of electrocution? Good God....spanking is one form of discipline, not a total concept of child abuse. I agree there comes a time when the discipline changes with the maturity of the child.

I also read that his real Father was sitting with him in court. Where was he when this child was being abused to the point that there was no way out except to kill his Mother & Stepfather? Children show signs of abuse...was no one paying attention?

altho i was wasnt sexually abused like this kid, i'll admit, i was beat constantly, and i mean beat, not spanked, not slapped, but a closed fist like i was supposed to be in a scrap with a title at stake.when i was 12-14 yrs old, i stood over my stepdad with the biggest sharpest kitchen knife i could find as he slept. Just as i had decided where i was going to start, i walked out, put the knife back, returned to my room, and cried.

Soc services were at the house prior to that, and after, and each time they were out, i coverd for my family out of fear, part for me, the rest for my younger brothers. My nose has been broken so many times i lost count. i had more fat lips, black eyes, than i can remember. i also decided when it was going to be him, or me, i left home. My mother would watch him do the beatings most of the time, and just have a smirk on her face when it was going on. The only time she would intervien, is when she thought he might actually kill me.

Growing up, i didnt take crap from anyone, even tho most the bullying was because i came to school beat, i dished it right back. i always, and still do take up for the little guy, and always will. Up until i was about 25 and my first child was born, i was a nice guy, who you didnt cross. The day my 1st daughter was born, i changed over night. Out of fear of being like my own father, i drank, and nearly to death.

3 kids later.... i never had an anger mangmt class, took parental guidance classes and so on. i never hit my kids other than a crack on the rump. my kids were never perfect, i wont keep a blind eye, cause who's kids are. They do however take after me the way i am now. polite, respect elders, kind, generous when they can be, and dont take crap. i dont believe in beating children, i do believe in spankings, and time outs, and having to exsplain when i know they dont understand, why they were going to get a spank, time out, or grounded.

This kid here, was molested by one of his parents, mother or father who knows. being that he killed them both, i'm going out on a limb to say both might have been involved, or the other knew, and did nothing. Remember, it isnt just the male who does molesting, women have been found guilty as well, and for both it is a shame. As i said before, the boy just got the break of his life..... i hope he does everything he can to get over his problems, fears, and personal issues, and does something to make himself a better person.

i too want to applogise for the long post, but felt that for those who like to condem, toss stones, and such, perhaps maybe a bit of shareing might help to point out, people change, and maybe this kid (i will take his side) had a good reason for doing what he did. If it was all true, then he saved everyone a bunch of $$ on garbage.

I'm not so sure I agree that this was done in cold blood. God only knows what life was like living in that trailer. I suspect there is a lot more to this story. I'm not sure who the real victim is. One thing is for sure. Being institutionalized for his teenage years will yield a severly troubled adult.

And you raise another sad part about all of this... our jail systems don't reform. We lock people away for 10 years, then toss 'em out on the street and expect them to be fixed. If people come out worse than when they went in, we have a serious issue on our hands. 2.3 million issues waiting to be released.

I don't know if I missed something in the story, but I have to think the boy must have had a deplorable life. I just don't know how a 13 year old comes to decide to kill someone - especially his Mother. I have a 24 year old son and a 9 year old and I just couldn't imagine this is a decision they would be capable of making.

Hopefully at the age of 13 he can be rehabilitated. I do wonder if he was being abused by his mother and/or stepfather that brought him to do this. Constant abuse by someone can cause an outcome such as this. I am definitely not saying what this child has done is okay if he was abused, but it would be at least a little more understandable.......I hope he gets the help he needs.

Being abused as a child does not justify homicide, otherwise, I would go out an kill several relatives, or at least should have when I was a child. Meantime, when this kid becomes an adult, he has a built in defense for any of his actions. If he was being abused, then he should have gone to the police, obviously he had a relationship with his paternal father. There are options other than murder, sorry he shouldnt get a pass. Children these days are more mature than previous generations using his immaturity was just a good defense move on his attorney's part, that was his job, not necessarily the truth. The only lesson he will get out of this, is that you can beat the system.

In my opinion, what's really telling is the fact that the kid asked the neighbor for shelter for the night. He knew something nasty was coming down the line and did not want to be there. Would that mean that he shot them in desperation? Maybe.

Would this have happened if the neighbor had a little more sympathy for him? Probably not that night, but unless the neighbor was savvy enough to understand that the kid would not have made such a presumptuous request unless he was pretty desperate, and called the authorities; sooner or later, that situation would have come to a head anyway. Though possibly not fatally. Or, it could have been the kid who died.

Not that I'm blaming the neighbor, not at all. Few of us have a good insight into what happens next door, and in a possibly abusive household, the adults would have made sure of keeping things private.

And Toomuchtime, how very cynical of you.

I think toomuchtime is correct. I think the kid was trying to set up an alibi of some sort because he already had his little murderous plan concocted.

I didn't see anything in this article that would lead anybody to believe the kid was abused. It said he had a chaotic home life...that could mean anything. Why didn't he move in with his father if his home lif was so bad?

Eve...I agree with you, in part. I got the feeling he was desperate when I read that the boy asked a neighbor to stay the night. That was only amplified by the fact the boy had been abused before. As for the neightbor declining the invite, most people don't want to "get involved." Zahra's story is a prime example of that. I lean towards the idea that this boy had finally had enough & something snapped inside. He is very lucky to have had such an insightful judge. The judges statement about rehabilitation tells a story all by itself. He did kill two people and should answer for that with all circumstances considered. There's much to this story that we aren't getting.

I agree. This kid was mad because he did not like his step-father and was mad because his father and mother were not together anymore. Kids have no business in the decision of who should be with who. He should have moved in with his father instead of murdering his mother and step-father. He deserves to be locked up after he reaches the age of 21. He had a lot of anger in him and knew what he was doing. I don't feel sorry for him. No telling what he would do next if he had an argument with a neighbor.

Yeah, they did say "past abuse," Debbie. And Sandie, with all due respect: do you remember planning anything when you were twelve? (And don't forget, according to the article, the kid's NOT mature for his age.) I know I didn't have the foresight at that age; certainly didn't know what an alibi was.

Still: if he was cunning enough to create an alibi with the neighbor, how is it he left the gun in the woodshed; didn't injure himself and claim to be a surviving victim; heck, just stayed around and waited for the cops?

Debbie...from the article : 'A Department of Mental Health official told the court she believed the juvenile system was suited for the teen. Patricia Carter said the boy's chaotic living situation and past sexual abuse affected his development. She did not say who abused him.'

With three of my own sons, it breaks my heart to read this. One has to imagine SOMETHING was going horribly wrong inside that house to cause him to do such a horrible thing. And chalking it up to "backwoods MO" is a bunch of nonsense...things like this happen EVERYWHERE. I hope he DOES get help and DOES get 'rehabilitated' as long as it comes to light that this was 'provoked' in some way (and isn't just "cold blooded" murder). Too often kids that have done a horrible thing are given up on and as others pointed out above, they leave the system worse than when they went in.

Eve, I am not being cynical, even though I have a very low opinion of mankind and humanity. Fact is that there are countless dysfunctional homes, abuses both mental and physical, bad environments, lack of supervision etc etc. If these were valid reasons for murdering and there were no alternatives, then the world would be in total chaos more so than it is now. Murdering family members, neighbors, bullies, would just be the norm. Instead, it is the opposite, the majority of humans are cognitive that killing another human being is wrong. Most of us grow up with some sort of traumatic issues, we get over them at some point. We might have our own dysfunctional issues as adults, develop behaviors that need to be corrected, but we dont kill anyone or everyone in our way. At the age of 13, this young adult/teenager, was aware of what he was doing, apparently. It also wasnt, or isnt the neighbor's responsibility, after all, if there were no obviously signs of violence in the home, how would anyone assume there were problems. Jails, convictions and death penalties are not just meant for punishing the guilty, but are also suppose to act as deterrents to anyone contemplating a crime. What signal does this send out to other teenagers? that if they dont like they way they are treated, they can knock off their parents and use the " I am baby and immature" defense. I guess it was the fault of TV and video games and not this kids predisposition to committing a crime.

Marianne, can you REALLY be sure of his motive? Did you read the article that stated abuse and a chaotic home life? I don't condone his actions, but I don't condemn him yet either. He should answer for what he's done with ALL circumstances considered. There is alot to this story we aren't getting. The judges statement speaks volumes.

Do any of you people have a 12 year old? They are still very much children. If a child this age could make a decision to kill his parents and carry it out successfully, the kid probably did not have a great home life. When I was in the 5th or 6th grade, I remember certain things about a certain kid that still sticks out. There was a boy who always came to school with dirty clothes and he stunk like a garbage can. He never turned in his homework and was always getting in trouble by the teacher for sleeping in class. He never said a lot and he was always picked on by other kids, including myself. One random day, when we got to school the teacher was accompanied by a counselor. They explained to us that this kid that we all picked on, had shot his entire family. I later found out that he was being severely abused, mentally, physically, and sexually and had been for years. Kids this age do not kill for fun. They kill out of necessity. Not a day goes by that I am not haunted about my role in teasing that poor kid.

maybe in other states, but one thing Missouri has did correctly is to set up their juvenile system to focus on rehabilitation rather then draconian punishment and vengeance. It is called the Missouri Model, look it up.

"The Missouri Juvenile Justice Association has worked for 30 years to reduce the number of youth held in detention centers. Its creation of the “Missouri Model” has made it nationally renowned for its work. The model ensures smaller, more rehabilitative facilities for youth in state care. Facilities favor youth development specialists rather than guards and eyes-on supervision rather than isolation. the state has seen a lower percentage of younger people returning to detention centers or put in adult prison compared to other states. Over 65 percent of Missouri’s youth were observed to have become law-abiding citizens within three years of their release."

As a parent I know exactly what you mean. This child was 12. After I read the article, I got the feeling he shot his mother & stepfather out of desperation. When I was growing up, I went to school with a kid who's legs didn't develop correctly & he used canes to walk. I was one of the kids who picked on him. Back then I didn't think of how that must have hurt him. Years later, I felt guilty about this until the obvious dawned on me - I too was just a kid. You were just a kid, Travis - a kid doing kid things. Ease up on yourself.

CatChick, the Zahra murder is EXACTLY what I was thinking of. She was little more than a year younger than this kid was when he did the shooting. In that case, the neighbors had seen some abuse, but no one took it seriously. That little girl, too, desperately wanted to stay the night anywhere but home, and friends and neighbors recall that fact.

Toomuchtime, a twelve-year-old (which this kid was when he did the shooting) is NOT under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES an adult. They are still pre-adolescent, and their brains, with a few exceptions of course -- there are always exceptions -- lack the sophistication to plan a murder to the point of setting up an alibi ahead of time. Think back, for Pete's sake. What were you like in 6th or 7th grade? Kids start developing the ability to think abstractly -- a necessity for planning a murder and avoiding the consequences, for example -- in middle school and early high school. And this kid is young for his age -- or at least, not mature for his age.

http://aacap.org/page.ww?name=Normal+Adolescent+Development+Part+I§ion=Facts+for+Families

I get your point about crime, and you are, in many respects, right. However, to lump a twelve-year-old kid with adult criminals is IMO not just going too far: it's grossly unfair.

The reasons prisons don't "reform" is because they are outragiously overcrowded. This kid has a better chance to be reformed if we get tougher with the death penalty, and eliminate the many thousands of inmates who have killed or raped. These are the ones we are "wasting space" in our prisons for. The odds to reform the others ( including this kid ) becomes a lot higher when we quickly rid ourselves of this violent scum.

The ability to think morally develps at different rates in different kids. This is true for all kids, but especially noticable in kids who have suffered at the hands of an abuser. Even in a normal boy, the "moral compass" is just beginning to function at age 12. If this kid was abused, his moral compass was not developed. On the other hand, his ability to lift, load, and fire a weapon was not hampered at all. It is entirely possible that he flew into a rage and, in response to a fairly normal parenting situation, killed his family. The reality is that he may not need reform, as much as he needs a stable loving home environment to grow up in. It is entirely possible that he will not do this again simply because he will mature.

The only fundamental question here is "can the state provide a stable loving home where a kid like this can grow? I'm not optimistic.

I'm not either, Nick; I wonder if it would be possible to find a family willing to risk bringing him into their home?

I would be a little apprehensive. He needs a lot of TLC, and one on one attention; if he is to ever trust again.

This article was short on any real facts about this kid and his life.

and yet the comments are wild with speculation, being passed along as quality opinions based on facts.

we have no facts, other than he shot his parents, had a chaotic home life (whatever that means), was POSSIBLY abused (again, not sure to what degree or if its true) and that he asked a neighbor kid to stay the night.

For all we know, the kid was the crazy one...and the parents did their best to not make an issue of it, or have to turn their kid over to the system because they couldnt handle it.

Im not saying its not possible he was abused and this was his reaction, what im saying is that its not the only possibility.

When it comes to committing crime there is no such thing as "rehabilitation" which is why our prisons are filled with repeat offenders. Lack of faith in God and the fanatics who want to legalize marijuana, increase welfare and make excuses for some thugs actions are the real culprits to abuse of our children and the decline of family values.

Stop giving second chances to criminals...lock them up and throw away the key forever then you will see our streets safe to walk again.

Right....marijuana is the root of all evil.....

post2.18 piffle...this was probably the best post I've read on the vine that has to do with kids and crime. This is a perfect example of activating consciousness of a problem followed with leadership that's committed to change. They are taking what could be a legitamate threats to society and helping these children become something they didn't have a chance to be under the old systems.

Debbie...

Patricia Carter said the boy's chaotic living situation and past sexual abuse affected his development. She did not say who abused him.

None of us were there. My kid is fairly normal...at 12 was an Honor Student and Cheerleader, had extracurricular activities and really nice friends. Sounds truly traumatic, right? But there were times when "life" as she viewed it was overwhelming to her, and (in tears) she'd talk with me until she felt better...only happened a few times. Only a couple of months ago, a 12 yr. old at her school committed suicide because he couldn't take the bullying and abuse he was getting at school. I can't imagine how a child might feel living in a home that isn't the one place they should feel safe. I hope people will pray for this boy...he is still only a child, and probably a scared, lonely one.

Good rule of thumb for you people who do abuse your children, emotionally or physically...don't keep any weapons around.

@toomuchtime, and others.....

A Department of Mental Health official told the court she believed the juvenile system was suited for the teen. Patricia Carter said the boy's chaotic living situation and past sexual abuse affected his development. She did not say who abused him.

giving he was sexually abused, the home he lived in, a small trailer being chaotic (meaning constant fighting), and i think in the boys defence safe to assume he was afraid to talk to someone for fear of reprecussion, and being brought up in my own situation, i can take the boy's side. there isnt just a judge who is thinking this is the best thing for him, but everyone involved ha said the same.... give him a chance to show he is not a killer, and at the same time give the boy the help he needs, to become an active part of social life. Be it he gets the right help he needs, he might make an excellent counselor, or something productive.

Are you saying its okay to kill your parents if you don't like what they do? This kid knew right from wrong. Why didn't he go to his father. He had it in mind to kill them for a long time and finally did it. No kid should allowed to be free that kills their parents. I don't believe his story that he was abused. That is plain nonsense. He was mad at his mother for marrying his stepfather so he decided to kill both of them for revenge. You can't let this kid out. He will do it over again if his anger got the best of him. WAKE UP.

Marianne - It's not just "his story" about the abuse. He was a 12 year old CHILD. A child who is cared for and loved does not kill his/her parents under decent or even disfunctional/unhappy circumstances. They do not kill their parents simply because they dont like the step-parent. WAKE UP.

@Mariann Pepitone

Consider long and extensive therapy. You must do something about those delusions.

You spew like a disgruntled and abused child.

Mariann, how do you know what he felt? Do you know the kid? To just say, "He was mad at his mother for marrying his stepfather so he decided to kill both of them for revenge" is a bit presumptuous if you don't know the kid personally and don't know what the situation really was.

Yesterday's article was about the 17 year old that murdered 2 store clerks and everyone posted on here that he should be tortured and put to death. There is only 4, just 4 years difference between these two teenagers. Does anyone think that in those 4 years there is that much of a difference in maturity and during those years a sense of morality suddenly develops. The knowledge of knowing the difference between right and wrong develop at a younger age. All you saw yesterday was an older version of today's story. Except today everyone is sympathetic and thinks this kid needs rehab. Perhaps the 17 year had the same abuse, but for 4 years longer, is that anymore of an excuse, think not.

A$$. 17 is worlds different from 15, 14, 13, 12, or any younger age. 17 is when you can make a decision about the rest of your life. 17 is when you are starting to think about what the world has for you after school is done. Children don't plan. Children are pushed to a brink and then break. Crying only helps for just so long then there has to be a change, a way out. If this child were a bully, then there might be a mean streak in him and he might lash out just because he wanted to, but, with the little bit of info in this article, it sounds as if he is more on the receiving side of things, rather than dishing it out to others. I applaud the judge for seeing that there is a chance for a future for this kid. The 17 year old you bring up has decided to take from the world, rather than try to fit into society. This child needs a chance to find out what that means.

Toomuchtime... I read the story about the 17 yr old yesterday & I see a couple key differences. Age is a very important factor to consider - I remember when I was 12, then jump ahead of that age and think about what I was like at 17. There was a vast difference - in many ways, but especially in terms of accepting accountability & responsibility. The 17 yr old killed two innocent people who never even met him just so they couldn't identify him for the thefts- that's cold blood. This 12 yr old (at the time) killed two people who either abused him themselves (one or both) or turned their cheek to someonelse abusing him. Kids who are loved and cared for don't kill their parents.Both stories are very, very sad - but for very, very different reasons.

With all due respect to you, Toomuchtime: yeah, as a matter of fact, four years -- actually, five in this case: he shot them when he was 12 -- do make that much of a difference in child development. As well, the 17 year old had been in trouble before --just got out of an institution, as a matter of fact; and the neighbors all saw it coming. That is not the story with the then-twelve year old. He was most likely pre-pubescent at twelve; probably still is. The testosterone had not kicked in yet.

And if you don't believe that makes a difference, just think back to your own teenage years, and the difference in your own body and mind between grades six and eleven. Think about it: how different were you in the summer after your last year in elementary school, compared to your next to last year of high school?

'Nuff said.

toomuchtime; there is a huge difference between 12 and 17. I was still playing with dolls at 12 years of age; at 17 I wouldn't have played with dolls on a bet.

To all of you, especially Dragoncrap that called me an ass, you are all wrong, you dont all of sudden learn that murdering a human is wrong between the ages of 13 and 17. This kid was playing with guns, not dolls. You are all reasoning this out from your own perspectives. Marie Pierce you are still probably playing with dolls now. I have raised 4 children to adulthood, and with successful careers and families of their own, I know very well what transpire between 13 and 17. I watched their friends turn out either good or bad as well. The ones that were problematic, continued to be. Talk to me in 10 years when this 13 year old is out, robs a store and kills someone. It was easy this time, it will be easier the second time around. They have kids 13 and younger fighting wars and killing men, women and children, take you dolls to them and see if they revert back to childhood. This 13 year, killed two people, no excuses.

So let me get this straight, the defense for this 13 year old is that he's "not as mature as others for his age"...and we are assuming the other 17 year old was, why?

Is it not possible that the abuse/trauma/issues in the 17 year olds life didnt stunt his maturity and ability to understand right and wrong?

Why are we assuming a 12 year old isnt capable of planning this murder and then carrying out a lie about it? Sociopaths can be this young.

Jessica, we're not assuming the twelve-year-old is not capable of murder. We are also not assuming that he killed his mom and step-dad because he didn't like one or both of them. We're picking up on the fact that there was definitely sexual abuse in the past, though no one seems to know if that was still going on when he shot them. (I'm guessing that something of that nature WAS still going on, based on the fact that the kid tried to get the neighbor to put him up for the night. But that's just me.)

We ARE saying that the judge and other people involved in this case must know of some mitigating circumstances (again, possibly abuse, possibly self-defense?) because they feel the kid's got a good chance of rehabilitation.

We are arguing with those on the board who, despite not knowing the circumstances, are ready to lock the kid up and throw away the key. Or even execute him. And we contrasted him with the seventeen year old, becasue that kid cold-bloodedly killed two convenience store clerks so they couldn't identify him.

Personally, I don't think we have enough information to make a judgement. But I keep thinking of that little girl, Zahra, who was abused by her step-mom and possibly her dad --allegedly, of course -- and ended up dead. What if this kid was abused by his step-dad, and possibly his mom, and couldn't take it any more?

A few people also noted that the kid didn't admit to the killing until after the judge said he could be rehabilitated. OF COURSE he didn't say anything! He's got a lawyer, doesn't he? What's the first thing a lawyer tells a client? Shut up and let me do all the talking!

Anyway, until there is more detail, I doubt anyone will budge on this.

@ catchick- so no other child has ever killed his parent(s) for no reason? If a parent(s) had been killed it's because the child wasn't cared for or loved???? That's ridiculous...people kill for little or no reason at all, even children!

RMil, you may think there is no reason, but there is always a reason. The reason could be anything from the kid's is a born psychopath who enjoys hurting / killing other living beings to self-defense to putting a stop to ongoing abuse. Just because you don't know what the reason is does not mean that there isn't one. We don't know in this case with all of its lack of information, but I'm guessing he just couldn't take any more abuse and he snapped. At any rate, I trust the judge's decision, and he does have facts. Normal well-adjusted kids from loving homes would not kill the people who gave them life and take care of them.

@marianne, and so on....

the physical abuse i suffered when i was a kid was enough. had i been molested by my stepfather, or mother, i am sure as the sun will shine, i would have killed them. Does that mean i am a killer? no, it means that in the situation i was in, where there was no out, no safe place that i knew i was never going to be beat again, and it almost got to that point. It wasnt for me untill i was 16, almost 17 it was enough. Untilless you are in that type of situation, where you feel there is no place you can turn, and when your parent(s) tell you, you will be called a liar, they will kill you if you tell someone, or hunt you down and kill you, and so on, you have no clue. It's a bit hard to exsplain, but i can assure you, this kid went thru enough hell, just living at home, and going by the official comments of his ordeal(s). Maybe i didnt kill my parents, but, had i done so, not even my step dads brother would have been angry with me. That he told me from his own mouth years after my socalled dad died, about 3 yrs ago. I to this day, dont think doing it would have made me a better person, but be it as it may, he got his own pain after i left. At times, i wish it hadnt been as quick for him as it was laying in his death bed dying from cancer. 320 lb man, reduced to skin and bones.... as sad a sight to see, i dont have much pity to this day for what he went thru. Devil may take my soul for feeling that way, some things you dont forget, or forgive.

The way I read it the sexual abuse was part of his history but not apparently related directly to the shootings. However, I do wonder if it indirectly led to what happened.

I really believe children are a product of their environment. It doesn't matter who they are born to, or where, but rather how they are loved, treated and raised.

You're right, Jennifer - this country is sadder every day. This morning on the local news a Mother was shoplifting in WalMart - got caught and ran out of the store.....leaving her toddler behind. Honesty, what is going on?

You don't think being locked up for 6 years in a juvenile detention facilty isn't a consequence? There is no room for remorse and repentence in your world. I wonder if you go to church at all?

I am with Badmoon. I find it interesting that this kid only plead guilty AFTER the judge decided to treat his Case as a juvie. This kid was willing to LIE all the way until that pint. He KILLED his family and should NEVER be let out of Prison. When he turns 18 his ass should be remanded to a padded cell for the rest of his miserable life. If and I say IF his life was so bad why did he not just do what all other kids do is to run away. If his dad was with him in the courtroom than he should have went to his house and let the authorities deal with whatever is going on in the home.

um badmoon, you really believe a child of 12 years can have the mental mindset to just blow away two people w/o years of abuse? puleeeeze

usa,

Generally speaking you are right on some points. However, do not forget the fact this was a sexual abuse case and retribution is very common. Anger that can cloud reasonable thought is easy to evoke in many of those cases and getting out(of the situation) becomes a matter of eliminating the cause because it is the only way to feel better and is the only way it will not happen again (no matter where you go).

This is why we have courts and investigations. On this forum we do not have the information to say even what happened, certainly not why or his mental state at the time. If the court thinks psychiatric help and juvie confinement is the best answer, I am betting they are making the best decision they can with the info they have.

In this day and age, I can believe that. Look at the number children, some as young as 5 or 6, who have taken somebody's life, especially on the inner city streets.

Ok I could say a lot about the mindset of a 12yo, but won't go there. Too much of that going on anyway.

Here's the problem I have, is at the end of the article they tack on one sentence about sexual abuse. Now I'd have to go back to see if they said alledged sexual abuse. So I wonder, if the system knew about the sexual abuse then why wasn't the child removed? If they didn't know about the sexual abuse until after the shooting, then who was abusing him? If it was one of the parents then there would have to be a lot of evidence to support the charge, as neither one of them are around to defend themselves. If it was someone else than that raises other questions. And as people have pointed out he lied until it was decided that he'd be tried as a juvenile. As for him being 'young', or immatrue for his age, who's saying that? The lawyer? And what does he have to support that? Have psychological tests been done to determine if he is at the low end of the spectrum? And his lawyer could have advised him, to act a little slow.

A couple more points I'd like to make:

To all on here who've alluded to their own childhoods and that at the age of 12 they remember bullying someone else for being different, you all defend yourselves with the same mantra, buy hey we were kids, what did we know. Well, it's not a defense, even at that age, you knew, even if you don't remember now, you knew what you were doing was wrong. You either led the pack or went along with the herd mentality, in the end it makes you a childhood bully, plain and simple. You must not have thought much of yourselves growing up to have chosen to hurt someone else. Hope you've grown out of your bullying ways and haven't passed them on to your children. A 12yo does know the difference between right and wrong a 5yo does. And a chaotic home does not give one license to kill, otherwise there would be a lot more dead parents. And let's not forget the 12 yo that was just taken into custody, hmm, what were the charges? Oh yea he was being sought as one of the best assasins around.

Next someone said that we are wholly products of our environment. Well that's a load of bs. If it were true we'd have a lot more violence than we do. And your theory doesn't explain a lot of good kids gone bad scenario's or how about the kids from bad homes who grow up to do good? Environment is just one factor in who we become, it's not the only one.

Now being locked away for until he's 18 or 21 is what's best for him and society at this time. The problem comes in, is if that time will be spent helping to nurture a person who can re-enter society in a positive way or a negative way.

since you think a 12 yr old should be treated as an adult then can we assume that you also believe 12 yr olds should get married? drive cars? hold full time jobs? drop out of school? go to war? sign contracts? buy cigarettes and alcohol? After all *adults* can do all of those and if a 12 yr old should be treated as an adult then they should have all those rights.

Oh what about pedophilia?..since you believe a 12 yr old is an adult, that means they can give consent for sex and anyone having sex with them should not be charged with *child* sexual abuse and if the child *agreed* then they should not face charges at all? correct.

If the above is not correct, then please explain why you believe that only regarding criminal activity should a 12 yr old be treated as an adult. That for everything LESS they are too *immature*, but that somehow they have 2 brains? a fully mature one that is engaged for criminal activity and a second less mature one that covers everything else.

@Piffle: Excellent points, very well thought out and very logical. Thank you for the insight. We can't know for sure what all went on, but we can know that 12 years old is not an adult in any way, shape, or form.

Must really suck to be you. Must really, really suck to be your children.

rch, lol!

I agree rch, not only must it suck to be silver, but someone better take his gun away before we're reading about that family. He's officially friggin' idiot #2, and we barely have 20 posts on this story. It's going to be one of those days on the vine.

silver - the voices in your head are saying "stay indoors, away from rational people"

that has got to be one of the most irrational comments I have seen on newsvine.

Family reunions must be fun at the Silver home.

Silver.....put the gun down and back away slowly before you hurt someone.

The fact that you are scared of your own kids and don't trust them tells me that you are probably a bad @!$%#ing parent that might need a shot or 2 yourself, electro-shock. Maybe you could provide some more informations so we can contract the proper authorities and talk to your kids.

Silver, if you don't trust anyone, not even your own kids, you must be a very dangerous person yourself. I feel for your family. They must be very embarrassed to be related to you.

And if that's the way you think, you are among the saddest!

Silver....REALLY!?!? You don't trust your own kids? Are they always out to get you? Do they ask you how your day was & what you did that afternoon to gain insight into your habits - hoping to trap you someday? Get a grip. I feel sorry for your kids.

I heard a legend that Silver only works against lycanthropes.

But apparently it works WITH trolls.

wow!!! i so agree with the comment "it must really suck to be you and suck even worse to be your children - a child is born and the adult does with it what they wish!!! that 13 year old had a biological dad - where was he and why could the boy not go to him - probably turned a blind eye - not hard to do, eh?

Wow, I am sorry that you seem to have such a sad existance. Prayers for you.

A lot of divorced parents, are more concerned with their social lives, than their children.

I used to babysit for friends that got divorced, and were always looking for someone to take their kids, every weekend, so they could go out and party. I think it was probably the most normal time a couple of the kids ever had in their entire lives. When I see those kids now, all grown up, they still hug me, and tell me they remember staying at my house, and that it was always fun, and how they hadn't wanted to go home.

Not to say that all parents who are divorced are that way; I've also known parents who gave up everything, for their children.

Wow...if I'd had to choose Piffle or Silver as a parent, guess who I'd run from and who I'd run to? LOL

His actions MAKE him a KILLER. No different than any other Killer. Arent most serial killers ammo the same of " we were abused as kids and that is why we killed all of those people"? VERY LAME ASS EXCUSE.

I agree with Texas.

Children's brains work differently than adults. The frontal lobe, the part of the brain responsible for higher order thought-such as predicting consequences, choosing between good and bad decisions or socially unacceptable ones is not fully developed in many people until their early 20's. Their immature brains will also process trauma, abuse, etc differently-it is much more detrimental to their well-being than that of an adult.

There have been cases of children that killed their parents that were rehabilitated. I am sure this judge is familiar with juvenile cases, and if he thinks this child can be rehabilitated, he probably can be.

you are so right - that child is not responsible for those 2 adults screwed up lives but they are 100% responsible for his!!! his lawyer obviously found the right judge - thats over half the battle in our courts

Abuse is never an excusable matter when it comes to children, but do they really think that housing the kid in the Juvenile system until he's 18 will make him any better? I smell a repeat offender in the making.

Tezas Momma, Let me get this right now. You had thoughts of murder at 13 but, You didn't do that. So because you had thought like this it is alright for him to murder his parent? That's like saying he did it because he was mad and couldn't control his angry anymore. And that is way all angry people murder others so much.

I'm sorry, if you murder someone like this you need to STAY in jail. Bot no let's let him out after a few more years and tell him not to kill anymore people when you think that way.......GIVE ME A BREAK.....

No, that is bull@!$%#, the people have the right to own guns. They should however be locked up or otherwise inaccessible. People like you should really consider going shooting to see what is like and hold a gun to see that its not this super dangerous evil thing that can just jump up and shoot all of a sudden.

That is a terrible idea. Jack is 100% correct. I have owned guns since I was 15 years old and not one of them has shot someone. Education and proper safety precautions are all that is needed. Going by your argument, we should not be allowed have knives in our homes if we have children because knives kill people too!

We have the right to own guns. Some people should just lock them up better or teach their children that they are not to touch the dang gun! If you can teach a dog to "leave it" why can't we teach our children too...I think that they are suppose to be smarter than dogs.

Absolutely NOT!!!!! Ignorant statement!

I don't think that will work in our society. People are too attached. I'm much more comfortable working toward securing firearms in the home in locked cabinets or with trigger locks. The latter aren't very expensive and can save lives, especially those of young children who cannot understand that guns are not toys.

I do not personally have a firearm in my home because I have very serious migraine headaches. I'm afraid that, in the throes of the worst of these attacks, I might make a fatal decision to end the pain. A permanent solution to a temporary problem, as it were. To me, this is being responsible with my firearms. I enjoy hunting but keep my rifles and shotguns in a gun safe at my parents' home. The combination is known only to the adults in the family, not our children.

I would hope that with more hunter education and gun safety work, we can get more people to take more responsibility for their firearms without destroying the second amendment.

I agree. I don't think that the people here that would like to see him locked up for life understand what it is like growing up in an abusive home. It doesn't have to be physical abuse either-psychological abuse can be just as bad or worse.

I was raped by my birth father from the age of 2 until 7. Then, miraculously, he stopped wanting to see us and my stepdad was able to adopt us. From then on my life became blessedly normal.

No judge would believe us then (1968-1973). He was a bigwig in his church and he was also rich. They thought my mother was making us lie. So she had to keep sending us to him. I kept having to be raped.

I don't know why it stopped but I know this: If it hadn't, I might have been like this boy. I might have grown up angry and I might have killed my birth father. No one was helping me. No one was believing me or even listening to me and my life was sheer hell.

I am thankful for my mother and my adoptive dad. I grew up with such a secret that I never told for years and years. It could have been much worse though. I could have been just like this 13 year-old.

We shouldn't judge unless we know the whole truth. The judge in this case does. He thinks the boy can be rehabilitated. That's enough for me.

Beth, you are one of the few on this board who are speaking from actual experience. IMO, your views are much more relavent than most of the comments which are based on pure speculation. I don't know why your father stopped when you were seven, but I'm glad he did. Now if I had been your mother, I probably would have killed him myself. May the rest of your life bring you peace and happiness.

Isn't there an award you could be winning somewhere ?

Foster programs in many states are about revenue, not rehabilitation.

Many foster caregivers are so much worse than this child probably grew up with.

Foster of a child into a loving home that is willing to take this sort of situation on is IMPOSSIBLE. He will be beyond the age of adulthood on his release.

now those little boys have it comming gettin all dressed up in robes and such

Thank You Father Get A Grip.

Not just a client ?

'get a grip' for president ! of cellblock A

You do not have to be physically abused. I grew up in a terrible house and many times I tried to get help but 1) it is difficult for a child to articulate that kind of abuse 2) it is difficult for authorities to prove 3) some people dismiss such accusations by children because they think the child "just doesn't want to listen", etc. 4) people underestimate the power of this kind of abuse.

@patrick: This was a very short article with many details left out. We don't really know what sort of evidence of abuse there may actually have been. IMO, the judge made his decision based on whatever facts were relavent. I would not be second guessing his verdict, since we are not privy to all of the details.

I don't know Joe there are some folks just in need of killin. You see the judge has already said this lad can be rehabilitated so stick it in your bum he wouldn't be a judge if he wasn't at least a tad smarter than the rest of us.

Nomination abridgement.

'get a grip' for president of Texas!

You'll fit right in.

The bottom line is that a 12 yr old is a CHILD, with the maturity of a CHILD. period. end of sentence.

A tad smarter than the rest of us???? I am really hoping your being sarcastic. Apparently he had more information than what is in this article. The judge appears to be better informed, not smarter!!!!

Granpa, please tell Homer and Bart hello for me.

You said a bad word.

Gramps

Are you kidding me? Blame the NRA? 12 or not the kid pulled the trigger. He knows the difference between right and wrong.

This kid knew what he wss doing. He needs to be in juvenile detention until he is 21 then tried for murder. I don't believe his story. He didn't like his step-father and blamed his mother for divocing his dad. Why did he report his anger to the authorities instead of murdering them. If he has that much in him he will be a danger to the community. Get a grip. He cannot be trusted.

Mariann,

I don't believe his story. kudos. A simple opinion and can not be disputed.

He didn't like his step-father and blamed his mother for divocing his dad. ??? Where did you get this critical piece of information? If this is true then he would have been tried as an adult. I believe(opinion) you made this up and you had too make something up to support your already conceived judgement which required no evidence, evidence which was sorely needed to make such conclusions and judgements reasonable to anyone reading them.

look up the Missouri Model. 65% of missouri juveniles do not re-offend. That is because the Missouri Model for juveniles does not hire *guards* but instead hire social and psychological personnel, and they do not isolate, they instead use *eyes on*. Look it up, more states are starting to use this model because of the success rate or keeping juveniles from developing the prison mentality.

I get so disgusted reading these comments on here. First off it would really help if most of you obtained some kind of education, and no im not refering to you listening to rush limbaugh or glen beck in your car in the morning on the way to work....a twelve year old may have the ability to understand right from wrong, but a twelve year old lacks the ability to weigh the consequences of their actions fully,( theres a little thing called the prefrontal cortex, which doesnt develop until our mid twenties).. especially if they have been abused, and suffer from ptsd as most abused individuals do. Our correctional system in the US is set up for failure because of u closed minded individuals that have posted on here. BUT as someone pointed out earlier we have the MO model here in missouri and the recidivism rate is around 9%....rehabilitation works, we just have to give it a chance.. violence doesnt stop violence it only keeps the cycle in motion.. fear doesnt curb crime, EDUCATION does..So as u right wing conservative greedy people keep more and more adolescents from obtaining an education you will reap what you sew, and can have no one to blame but yourselves..

Well mostofuaresodumb, maybe before you start telling people they need an education, you should work on your own. For starters, you need to work on your punctuation, capitalization and spelling.

I think that refers to chicken killin dogs not parent killin kids dumb ass

Hawkeye,

Does that apply to members of the military as well? If so, then we've got a cr@p load of killers living amongst us!