What is a big surprise to me is the venom and hatred the right wing (mostly) has towards illegal immigrants. Just look at the comments being left by people. These are the same ones who tout Christian morals. Jesus said "Love thy neighbor" he didn't say "Love thy neighbor if they are legal citizens".

Hypocrites. How can you profess to have Christian morals and harbor such hatred in your hearts for fellow humans?

Why don't you let the whole family move into your house? C'mon, put your money where your mouth is!

Love "Christians" especially the born-again kind!!!!

Phil Commander................>>Because we are sick and tired of paying their way while true Americans (who do not have a Spanish surname) are not able to get into the system because minorities "come first."

Phil CommanderSo you are saying that since you are not a Christian you do not have to love others? Sad...really sad.

I love my family, everyone else is optional.

Illegal immigrants are THIEVES. I give no quarter to killers, liars or thieves.

illegal immigrants are law breakers and so are you everytime you go 26 mph in a 25 mph zone when driving. You become the exact same thing as them...no better or worse. A lawbreaker is a lawbreaker. So get off your high horse.

Unfortunately, your forefathers were illegal immigrants.

clarke ong

Unfortunately, your forefathers were illegal immigrants.

Sorry, not mine.

I don't think you hate illegal immigrants, I think you hate the illegal immigrants that abuse the system, wreck our borders and commit criminal activities. This kid has been here since a baby, this is the only country he knows. He is going to be a productive member of the US, who knows what he is going to contribute. To just make a blanket statement of hatred for all illegals is not rational. I use to say the same thing, but with less vehemence, no hatred just no tolerance. There has to be a way to let the ones who are contributing stay and show no tolerance for the violent, welfare types to go.

i spent two summers working with them in the fields and they are kind and hard working and just trying to better their lives. I can't hate them for that.

Commander--Understood. But no provision for citizenship based upon one's "niceness" is made in our immigration laws. That is the point---not all this hateful back and forth between everybody.

Phil - nice try. Not. I never said a word about tolerating lawbreakers. I was just pointing out what nonsense your comparison was. And it's still nonsense, and you know it, as your feeble response clearly indicates.

Phil Commander

Go back and read your first sentence genius!!!

In case you can't figure it out... see below...

**ILLEGAL**

grama - what is ignorant is refusing to recognize what a huge problem all the illegals in this country are and how much money this is costing all of us. THAT's ignorant. And for every one person like this young man, there are THOUSANDS of immigrants who ARE criminals and a serious liability.

Mexico is not pushing doctors and engineers over the border, I assure you.

Anarius-1900096: Incorrect clarke. My forefathers were conquerors. They came to this land, they destroyed the native cultures and they made it their own. If Mexicans and the like want to try to conquer the United States, by all means have at it. Illegal immigration is different. If you ask me it warrants a lot harsher of a punishment than simply being sent back to the sh*thole you crawled out off. Something closer to losing your feet seems more likable.

Soooo what you are saying is that people who take over without the use of force...are not conquerors? you realize the Majority is no longer much of a majority anymore? Your forefathers were indeed immigrants unless you are native american which I doubt you are.Just because your forefathers killed to get here doesn't mean they weren't immigrants.

hey, I like this thread, it's alot more exciting than that crap soph0571 writes, can I come play, please

Strange... I would have thought a fiscal conservative would see the economic benefit in giving someone who's going to complete college, get a well paying job, and put a decent chunk of money into the system in the form of taxes.

I would have also thought a fiscal conservative would recognize how much money would need to be used in government spending to actually deport the millions of illegal immigrants currently in the country. I thought they might understand the increase in size of government this would require... Well I guess fiscal conservatives don't understand that.... what a shame...

berenerd - talking about the history if immigration into this country is pointles.s Just how far back are you going to go? Because the truth is even "native americans" were immigrants. So where does this end?

The fact is, the U.S. is NOW a sovereign nation with clearly-defined borders and clear cut immigration laws that our federal government is required to enforce, something they've been failing at miserably for decades. It has got to stop.

Grama1111, stop using the "illegals do the jobs real Americans won't do" BS!!!! There are so many people in my area who were "laid off" when this recession hit, but all the illegals are still employed. Check all the factories in the Midwest and that is most of what you will see employed there. My best friend lost her job of 8 years, right before Christmas too. They kept all the illegals and laid off all the "gringos". They raided her plant once and within4 months they were all back with brand new names and identities. Get out in the real world and stop believing everything you read in your kool-aid news. I don't consider myself a "christian" as that is too broad of a term anymore. But I love my family, God and my country. It's hard to be caring and compassionate when our taxes keep going up up up and we can't afford health care, but all the illegals have our jobs and get free health care and food off of our taxes.

Phil, I'm not sure where I fall on this issue. I do take issue with a few of your statements though:

1) You have no problem paying for them? I think all should carry their own weight.

2) You compare being in this country illegally to speeding, because both are against the law? So you would then also put murderers on par with speeders? As you put it, "both are law breakers, no better or worse". I do not support some of the ignorant comments others make here, but those two arguments are ridiculous by any measure.

This student and many very young immigrants who were brought to this country, without the ability or right to consent, should be treated differently from their parents, who broke immigration laws. The law should make reasonable and fair concessions for these children, not the parents. Many of these young immigrants have become adults, they can't get drivers licenses or hold a bank account, and have no memory or cultural connection with their home country.

There is no room for hate in this matter, it does not help those few states trying to enforce the immigration laws. But there is room for properly placed compassion.

Ken get off the roids....Where are you frum? R U frum unuther @!$%#ry? So wat u r saying iz that if sumwun can't spel then thay don't no what they r talking abowt and can't hav an opiniun?

Ken, you're right, there is a lot of poor grammar and spelling here. To focus on that is really not the point. I think you understand someone's point of view, regardless of how they spell it. Take issue with their message, not how it is conveyed. The reality is one has nothing to do with the other.

So then fiscal why don't you focus on that problem instead of spending time/money/effort trying to deport this one? Students who are here illegally that were brought here by their parents and often think they were actually citizen don't fall into that same catagory as the ones that come here that create problems with this society. They actually learn the language, end up paying taxes, and doing much more for society then freeloaders here that are citizens.

Your problem here is that you're enraged by one issue of illegal immigration and decided, without thought or reason, that this person and others in his exact situation should be tossed into the same category as the one that pissed you off. That's called emotionally reacting to an issue rather then rationally analyzing it....

This is truly so sad, and this is the reason we are in the state we are in. So much hateful venom being spit around, whether its politics, religion, healthcare, the homeless, the war, our President, we have become a "take your pick and gripe" society. The rest of the world is watching at the rhetoric we keep, as Americans, spitting out. Our so-called melting pot is showing its cracks and its not because of issues, it's because of the basic way we are treating each other instead of working together. Shame on you. What would you do if you were in his position? Go back to Mexico??? I seriously doubt you would leave the creature comforts of your home.

It's time that Americans take to the streets and stay until the last illegal and their kids are put on a bus back to Mexico.

Phil Commander

illegal immigrants are law breakers and so are you everytime you go 26 mph in a 25 mph zone when driving. You become the exact same thing as them...no better or worse. A lawbreaker is a lawbreaker. So get off your high horse.

Umm...are you actually saying that going one mile per hour over the posted speed limit is the same as grand theft, breaking-and-entering, fraud, tax-evasion, etc.? Really??

Are you aware that illegals are ripping off this country and sending the spoils of their ill-gotten booty back home, where the cost of living is only a fraction of what it is here? And, our government just turns a blind eye to the flood of illegals taking our jobs, getting free education, health care.....and due to their sucking our welfare system dry, real Americans who need help end up having to do without. Jan Brewer had the right idea in Arizona, but unfortunately, we have an administration that thinks breaking federal laws is "okay", as long as you are not from this country. Stealing from U.S. citizens is just fine and dandy as far as Obama's concerned.

Grama --

The jobs taken by these people are jobs that our own American Born citizens don't want.

Excuse me? He is in college on a scholarship -- no American kid wanted that scholarship?

Furthermore, when he graduates from college, do you think he's going to be working in the fields -- or competing with an American citizen for a high-paying job?

I find your "logic" bizarre. That's the nicest way I could think to put it.

Send him home he is illegal

Devil.

Look up previous post regarding statute of limitation of rape.

Look up other post regarding separation of individuals ripping off society and those that will contribute to it.

Having Christian morals, and loving people regardless of citizenship doesn't mean that we Shouldn't expect would-be immigrants to follow the rules. I counter that cheating the system and coming illegally to this country hurts legal immigration from other countries, who don't have the benefit of sharing a border with the United States. Besides Christian charity doesn't mean letting people run net deficit costs on your states, because of all the services that they receive in the medical and educational arenas. Common sense has to play a role, just having a big heart is not going to cut it.

Why is it so hard to understand that illegal is ILLEGAL? He's been here since he was three... sad, but still illegal. Length of time may add to his hardship or the fact that it is a sad situation - but nothing more. If you make length of time he's been here an issue, you then set a bench mark: "you only have to stay in the country and remain uncaught THIS LONG and you get a free ride to citizenship". The fact that he's the student body president means nothing: "Well, you can stay if you are popular enough to win an election among college students". I'll admit, it's bad situation, but it's one his parents caused, not us. His parents need to be deported, and I hate to say it, but so does he. Now - if any of them want to OBEY THE LAW and FOLLOW THE RULES towards citizenship, like so many of their fellow countrymen have done: wonderful. Welcome them with open arms. Until then - they are criminals. This is not hate, it's a statement of fact.

First let me say I feel truly sorry for conservatives in California who have witnessed the downward spiral of a flourishing state, almost a nation unto itself, into a 3rd world socialist welfare state that is in immediate need of fiscal sanity. Alas, the majority of voters in this state still don't get it. To you I say enjoy your crappy hell hole state. You deserve the $hit for brains politicians who are ruining your once idyllic life and state. I'm so thankful I do not live there. You couldn't pay me enough to move there. I do not hate immigrants of any stripe, I just expect them to follow OUR laws and if they choose, that the steps needed to become a citizen, I will welcome you with open arms. By the same token, it makes my blood boil that illegal immigrants get special treatment in regard to college tuition. My daughter will be in hock to the tune of $100K by the time she graduates. No one is helping her, nor would I expect anyone to. Oh and one more thing, Washington congressmen take note, when California comes calling for the federal government to bail their sorry a$$ out of the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s they owe, if you do so, we the voter will remember you, and your political career will be finished on your next election bid. Have a nice day.

It's not about venom or anything but the fact that they are here illegally and getting a break in tuition. They get up to $23k break in thier tuituon while I had to to pay $55k for mine, Of course I am a natural born citizen so what was I to do? Lie that I was here illegally? As far as the poster that said, "Love thy neighbor," I do and I can tell you, that student is not my neighbor. I don't care what people say, the word illegal is just want it states in the dictionary.

a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa, esp. a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson.

Now if everyone that thinks an illegal alien has rights here in America, I guess we can allow anything illegal in America, because that is what will happen when a good defense lawyer gets his chance to challenge the constitution. Just to give you an idea, here are a few of the illegal happenings in America now.

unlawful; illegitimate; illicit; unlicensed. Illegal, unlawful, illegitimate, illicit, criminal can all describe actions not in accord with law. Illegal refers most specifically to violations of statutes or, in organized athletics, codified rules: an illegal seizure of property; an illegal block ( in football ). Unlawful means not sanctioned by or according to law: an unlawful claim to the inheritance; to take unlawful advantage of the trading situation. Illegitimate means lacking legal or traditional right or rights: an illegitimate child; illegitimate use of privileged knowledge. Illicit, which originally meant simply “not permitted,” now most often applies to matters regulated by law with specific emphasis on the way things are carried out: illicit conversion of property; an illicit attempt to control the market. Criminal most often refers to violation of the statutes of penal as opposed to civil law. All felonies are criminal as are all crimes sometimes punishable by death such as murder, arson, and kidnapping: a criminal act.

Hey Phil Commander- Get a clue. Sure some people may say things in a way that comes off as 'venom". But the issue isn't wether to 'love thy neighbor". its wether or not my money should be used to "pay" for my neighbor. there is a legal procedure to becoming a U.S. citizen, and thats the road that should be taken. My wife's parnets came from Belgrade, and their proudest day, outside of having their kids, was the day they became U.S. citizens- and they went about it the right way. How do you think they feel when they see all these illegals getting a free pass- and people like you supporting it? Bottom line is that the funds used to support education, etc- come from taxpayers, U.S. citizens, and frankly, its not right that we have millions of people here taking advantage of that money. We have plenty of people who ARE citizens that the money could be used to help. So please, spare us all with your ripping on the right, or pleading to someones morals,- the bottom line is that its not right. Its not sustainable any longer, and it needs to change. I'm sure the kid in this story is a fine young man- but he is not a U.S. citizen, and I should not have to foot the bill for his education.

Deport him!

He has just admitted to criminal conspiracy against the United States people.

Enough talk. Deport this criminal.

Phil,

I agree that we should love other people, but please don't take one verse out of context. If you read the Bible, you will find that Jesus was also asked of paying taxes, etc... His answer was "render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasars..." In other words...obey the law. Using your logic that Christians are hypocrites, if we don't love other people, I must assume that the illegals are willingly violating the laws and therefore defiant in their duty to follow the law.

@Svenolafson
In regards to your comment about Phil being the second to post... perhaps you should learn how threads work. There were already over 10 posts prior to his chiming in.

MY stance on this is this: According to our forefathers, we are to accept immigrants because that will build our country. It's a melting pot that consists of immigrants from all over the world... that's that made the USA so great!

However, the USA is not so great anymore, so it's run it's course. Deportation is a slap on the hand. They are returned only to try and try again until they succeed. The educated people who contribute to our society DO have a place here and those who take pride in their educational endeavors can earn their way and pay for out-of-state tuition. Here's an idea... all of those lobbyist and legal groups can stop spending the money to keep the illegal criminal aliens safe and changing our streets to names of Mexican heroes. Then they can spend the money on scholarship/citizenship funds for the young men who do want to attend university and achieve positive goals that contribute to our society.

FYI: If I had to live in Mexico, I would want the hell out too!

And another note: I live in Texas and am constantly surrounded by Mexican people. For the most part, they are good people who care for their families and work harder than most to achieve very little. But to most of them, taking care of their families is achieving a lot!

Why should a student in the country illegally have an advantage of better fees than someone that is a legal citizen of this country and that may want to attend an out-of-state school. Maybe the schools should just do away with in-state and out-of-state fees. Set one fee to make it even for all students.

This is just another problem of a decades long issue of broken borders.

For those that keep going back with the "how did your relatives get here" line, uummm, things like immigration did not exist hundreds of years ago. We, like many other countries, have had immigration laws on the books for a good long time now tho, even prior to 1910 when my relatives came through Ellis Island, a legal point of entry. They had fees to pay, medical certificates, and proper papers to give to authorities.

@ phil commander - I and many of the people i know are Democrats and we are sick of it also. This is not a right side only issue or a racist thing or a christian - non christian thing.

This is an American problem. I for one have seen way too many positions taken by me here in INDIANA from illegal immigrants who have decided to do IDENTITY THEFT by having fake SS and DL"S.

12 million illegal immigrants in the USA my ASS...way more than that. I can't even tell you how many were fired from my work..to bad they only fired them and not hand them over to ICE. I had even been threatened by one of them when i found out.

They are taking middle class manufacturing jobs that I myself need and many, many legal immigrants and citizens NEED.

It is at this point in time hurting us even more than ever now that we have so many people unemployed. They are using resources they do not contribute to.

No hate in the race or person, but in the actions they do.

You really have no idea how many Illegal Immigrants are among us using IDENTITY THEFT.

They portray all Illegal Immigrants as DAY LABOR and it couldn't be further from the truth.

So many blue collar jobs throughout america would be open up and the unemployment % would drop down drastically. We can't just let the whole world cross our border undocumented and hidden!

People harbor hatred because if they didn't know it before they are beginning to realize how illegal immigration effects health care costs, crime rates, drug and human trafficking, gang violence/crime and certain diseases that were once thought to have been non existant here in this country. (bed bugs anyone)(Chagas disease etc)(TB) Not to mention that so many of these people have anti american view points and don't assimilate. A couple of years ago a Ford plant in Oregon was raided and over 200 illegals were rounded up. So what was that about them only working jobs that American citizens didn't want??????? Yeah right. 80 Hospitals in Southern California were closed down because of excess costs due to illegals as of 2004 or 2005. I don't even know how many since then. I'm on the E. Coast and the level 1 trauma center near me has had to make millions of dollars in cut backs annually because of illegals abusing the system ie free care and food etc. So yes.... they're doing serious damage to our country that people like you refuse to acknowledge. Your jokes aren't funny george lopez.

Phil, stuff a sock in it. You are such a pompous fool to say things like illegal immigrants are the same thing as people who go more than 2 miles over the speed limit. By your logic someone who goes 2 miles over the speed limit is the same as a murderer. After all, a law breaker is a law breaker.

The problem with this idea is that the illegal immigrant is paying into the system - a system that you are taking advantage. His social security and medicare taxes are supporting YOU.

On the other hand, a guy going 2 miles over the speed limit can be a risk to me.

So you are right, they are different. Just not in the way you are implying.

Since my forefathers came through Castle Garden in the 1830's and some through Ellis Island in the 1890's, they must have been stupid for immigrating legally when all they had to do is walk across the border from Mexico and receive the same benefits.....makes sense to me!

The venom; the bigoted, misplaced hatred; and the abject the fiscal and moral irresponsibility of so many proposed 'solutions' are truly disheartening, downright unAmerican, and anathema to Christian teaching. But what is truly unforgivable is the downright LIES being spread by those preaching hatred and exclusion.

To correct a few of the more common misrepresentations, in the aggregate, undocumented Americans are:

• MORE LIKELY than citizens to be actively engaged in the work force, at one or more jobs;
• LESS LIKELY than citizens to receive welfare or other government handouts;
• FAR LESS LIKELY than citizens to commit felony crimes (this is especially true for Latinos in general and Mexicans in particular);
• DO pay taxes, and, in fact, pay MORE in taxes than they receive in government services (unlike American citizens in the aggregate, in these day of deficit spending);
• PAY for, and SUBSIDIZE, government programs that they are ineligible for, such as Social Security, to the tune of billions of dollars a year;
• Have NO legal option for adjusting their residency status;
• Own homes or pay rent for their own homes;
• Are productive members of the communities they live in; and
• Are patriotic and love America;

What makes the LIES so unforgivable is that the FACTS are out there for anyone who chooses to do serious, objective, unbiased research. Current policy is counterproductive and deleterious to America's national self-interest. Policy prescriptions based on LIES are far worse, and should be condemned by any thinking person.

Most of you guys truly disgust me and I'm ashamed that you are actually Americans, from the way you talk, it just seems like the Taliban talking... "he's a criminal" Lordie, Lord... give the kid a break~! Because your child wasn't smart enough to get scholarships doesn't mean you should take it out on a kid who only knows America as his home... his parents (or Mexico) F-ed his life up, and he's paying for it. Dag nabit, this dude is the student body president and has scholarships; aren't these the sort of individuals we need in this country? No I forgot, we need the like of Sarah Palin, Bachmann and Christine O'Donnell.

God save your souls.... and enjoy all the HATE in your heart. I'm not saying to grant the dude citizenship, but dang, be a lil considerate or compassionate at this young fella's plight... what am I even talking about... you don't give a dung!~!!

All of you making hateful, discriminatory comments should be ashamed. There are MANY "citizens" of our country who live on welfare (rather than get a job)and waste taxpayers money - and then there's this person, who was brought to America as a toddler, who is trying to be a contributing member to society, and you spew juvenille comments - really? How about encouraging him to become a legal citizen and continue on with his great efforts? These people just want to be able to live a decent life, like we get to...try putting yourself in their shoes. I'm thinking, we would hope that someone, America, would give us a chance to contribute.

Tunde Akins: Have to side with your compassion, but gosh darnit, you sound like Sarah Palin talking. From where did you learn to say Lordie, Lord, Dag nabit and dang? Very colorful...LOL

Since my forefathers came through Castle Garden in the 1830's and some through Ellis Island in the 1890's, they must have been stupid ... when all they had to do is walk across the border....

RobWI, it's time someone told you the TRUTH. Your forefathers didn't walk, they rode a boat; but all they did was cross the border. They did NOT obtain permission to immigrate here. No one did in those days. They did NOTHING beyond show up, work hard, and raise their families. That is exactly what this young man's parents did.

When your family came here, they were welcomed by MY family. It's up to you to decide whether to honor your forebears by welcoming New Americans and offering the same opportunities that your forefathers were allowed to take advantage of. Doing so would probably make your ancestors proud.

God Bless America and the American Dream!

Bryon, not necessarily. If they are illegal and paying taxes, the possibilities are they have stolen ID and yes, in that case they are paying taxes they may or may not try to collect. Yet if they continue to live here into old age, they may attempt to apply for social programs for assistance. Then there are the children of illegals born in this country. A large number of them are in social programs, ie:, education, free lunches, medical. Next there are those that are paid under the table as day laborers, paying no taxes at all yet using benefits from our social programs, ie: medical and low income housing.

According to this theory....My Dad steals a Million dollars...they know he did it, but the cash is on MY bed......so I get to keep it !!!! After all....it wasn't my fault he did something illegal, I was just a little kid sitting in the car when he did it....I just reap the benefits !!!

Sing along everyone.... " I like to be in America.....eberyting free in America" !!!

What part of the country do you live in commonsense? That sure is not happening where I live! Are you doing your "objective, unbiased research" on the net, or living it? Hmmmmm, I wonder.

NO "Dream Act mass Amnesty!"

This illegal aliens is NOT legally allowed to get a JOB inside the USA; so he should not be taking up space in any state college!

We need CITIZENS in college.

I think that for most of us, if a person comes to the US, legally or illegally, what needs to happen is that they apply for citizenship within a certain time frame. I have no qualms about someone coming here, working and at the same time going thru process of citizenship. Its the people that have no intention of doing what is right to gain citizenship, full or dual, and pay the appropriate taxes on their income. Canadians come to the US to work all the time. Americans go to Canada and work. We have dual citizenship available to those folks.

We have a great deal of Central and South American immigrants in the Southwest just like South Florida get a lot of Cubans and Haitians. Canada gets a ridiculous amount of southeast Asians. European countries get a lot of African and Middle Eastern immigrants. We all have these issues. Most countries send them home if they don't meet certain criteria or get a job/enroll in school and apply for citizenship. In America, we actually go the opposite way and give more rights to benefits to illegal immigrants than to needy citizens. This is the issue that need attention.

I'm not a sympathizer, nor a radical. I just want a peacefulsolution found that doesn't include citizens suffering so a non-citizen can have rights they have not "technically" earned. At least make them make an effort to earn their benefits. No more being ok with the anchor baby laws. This country was founded on, and made great by, the import of people from other nations. The great melting pot, yes. But when they got here, they had to do it the right way. What is wrong with liberals and conservatives agreeing that we make them apply for citizenship? Thats the right way. If they don't meet the criteria, they need to go back where they came from. Why are we the only country that allows them to stay? Heck, you can't even visit Canada if you have a DUI on your record. We allow convicted murderers to come here, set up shop and stay for desert. It makes no sense.

So lets see if I got this correct. States like California have said it is OK to give people who have no legal right to be in this country in-state tuition, but if you are a legal citizen, not from the state of California, then you must pay the higher out of state tuition? And California wonders why they are broke. Anyone want to bet that if they cut off all aid to illegal immigrants a large portion of their economic problems would go away. If I were a legal California resident I would sell my property and leave the state ASAP and leave California with nothing but illegal immigrants. I can't help but wonder how long the "Garden State" would survive without hard working "LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS" to pay for the benefits for the illegal immigrants. California is a prime example of a failed Socialist style Government. To think this is what Obama and the Democrats want for the rest of the country and it will happen unless American Citizens STOP it.

A unanimous state Supreme Court, led by politically conservative Justice Ming Chin, said the California provision was constitutional because U.S. residents also had access to the reduced rates.

Did the justices get their education by reading Law for Dummies? How can someone be so shortsighted? Just because U.S. citizens have access to tax payer subsidized education does not mean that non U.S. citizens deserve the same benefits. I had to read the paragraph 3 times to assure myself I didnt misread it. So, with this idiots logic, anyone from any country has the right to discounted education if they enter our country illegally.

What f'n logic! A mexican, who jumped the border, has a right to tax payer subsidized education because U.S. citizens have that right.

All of you read the paragraph a few times and let it sink in.

Oh and for you Grama. No. All Mexicans arent criminals. Unfortunately most of the illegals are gang members and drug smugglers.

The other peaceful illegals should be considered refugees. Mexico is collapsing and the peaceful Mexican views America as a safe haven.

Annex Mexico! Hey conservatives!! They have OIL!!!

I am completely and utterly in shock over Phil Commander. I sincerely hope he was screwing around with his posts... If so - good one; that is pretty funny.

If not... wow, that... well, there's just no excuse for those kind of statements.

inronic, during the vietnam war if you were in school you could get a deferment. If you weren't then you got drafted. Sounds like someone thinks the same program would be good for illegals; go to school or join the service. Are these people held in such high regard they are priveleged at the level of a citizen or vietnam verteran? I've always wanted them out but if our ahole leaders won't close the border!!!!! This is our government in action or is it inaction? They all need replaced. 2012 is the next big "change".

Phil

I too second the comment - How about all the illegal aliens move into YOUR house.

America Today - ALL CALIFORNIANS

The next time a CA Supreme Court Justice comes up for a vote - VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!

We need to rid the state of this entire court.

1. If you deport him, make sure his whole family goes too. For everyone who says "he doesn't know the home of his birth" he'll get used to it. Its no different than his parent coming here... did they say: "Oh, no, we can't go there... it's so different and strange!!"

2. Since he was in violation of his legal status, he'll have to hang out for a few years in his birth home and apply for his greencard again. Just like so many other fine Mexicans do before they come to the US and toil as hard or more hard than this kid who's getting a ride through college.

3. He's illegal... any penny he makes here is illegally made, even the money he's taxed on. Which those taxes won't be income tax because he doesn't have a SSN... if he does have one, then he's commiting another crime.

4. I found it interesting that he said he couldn't accept the stipend because he couldn't lie. When he graduates college, does that mean he's going to work under the table, or it OK to lie then?

5. People that speed break the law. They are given a ticket for their infraction and report in front of a judge if they want to fight it. The illegal driver who collided head on with me from over an island from the opposite end of a intersection during a red light (really, only old people do that!!) didn't get so much as a slap on the hand, because the cops knew that if I tried to press charges, the illegal immigrant could just disappear.

JM California,

LOL, you know I had to keep it colorful with the yahoos on these boards.... btw, I learnt my English from the Bay Area, CA. Ha~!

Trunde:

You betcha!

A little humor goes a long way in this divisive subject.

Karen,

How about all the illegal aliens move into YOUR house

You can't seriously maintain that people are living in your house. They live in their own homes, which they either buy or rent, just like everyone else.

MORE LIKELY than citizens to be actively engaged in the work force, at one or more jobs;
~Illegally making money is a crime in the US. Also, if they're working 2 jobs, those are 2 jobs they're taking from a legal citizen.

LESS LIKELY than citizens to receive welfare or other government handouts;
~Come to Massachusetts. We live to give out benefits!! Also this story is about a kid who is receiving a scholarship. And they should be less likely, they shouldn't be allowed to apply for welfare or other benefits. If they do get them, they're lying about something.

FAR LESS LIKELY than citizens to commit felony crimes (this is especially true for Latinos in general and Mexicans in particular);
~We have some pretty decent gangs like MS-13 and the Latin Kings. Also, the act of not being legally ackowledged to be in the US is a felony crime. No one should be claiming that the average decent latino is a lethal criminal, that shouldn't be in the topic. But if they do commit a crime, other than being illegal, it's more difficult to find them and bring them to justice.

DO pay taxes, and, in fact, pay MORE in taxes than they receive in government services (unlike American citizens in the aggregate, in these day of deficit spending);
~If they are paying Income Tax they are commiting a crime as they never should have legally received the funds to begin with. Their employers are also at fault. If you're speaking of taxes and such on food and goods, everyone pays those anyway.

PAY for, and SUBSIDIZE, government programs that they are ineligible for, such as Social Security, to the tune of billions of dollars a year;

~Again, they shouldn't be making money to pay into this system and we have illegal immigrants who get on the Social Security system. Obama's Aunt Zetunia is the highest profile person I know who is getting several type of benefits from the state and federal gov't. She's not the only one.

Have NO legal option for adjusting their residency status;
~That's because they are illegal. If they were legal, they could have moved to any state in the US freely.

Own homes or pay rent for their own homes;
~They shouldn't be buying residences in the US if they aren't citizens. They would have had to file paperwork that was lied on to get into the property. Renting is up to the landlord to ask for that info. If he doesn't it's on him.

Are productive members of the communities they live in;
~Just like any legal member of a community, there are good eggs and bad.

Are patriotic and love America;
~Tell that to the kids that celebrate Cinco De Mayo. And you know who else loves America? American citizens.

This isn't an issue of good vs bad or whether you're being a good Christian.
This is about rules and laws. A land of laws was established here. People were free to enter for a period of time and then rules were set up to make sure the resources weren't taxed too quickly. That's why countries, not just the US, have immigration policies. Our Forefathers may have came here in the 1800s after our country was established, but after a certain point we had to slow down the influx and created a law against free overflow into our country. No one is denying these people citizenship in the US, they just have to do it right and follow the rules.
It's not good or evil or un-Christian. It's about the law.

BTW- Every country in the Americas, North and South, stomped on the Native Americans who were here. So stop the BS of the indians were here first. The Mexicans are just as guilty as the US for what happened to the indians. And even though our gov't forced them onto reservations, can any of you find me an Aztec or Mayan reservation?!

I get tired of the rant that your forefathers were illegal. The truth is that mine came from Europe and followed the laws in getting here. So they were Immigrants not illegal Immigrants. The current crop if Illegals are breaking the law.

Hello Non-Californians

I too suspect that we will ask for a bailout. Tell your representatives NO BAILOUT FOR CALIFORNIA.

We need to do something to keep our idiot politicians and citizens in line.

I support you. It's apparent that my voting for their opponents did not help.

You can't seriously maintain that people are living in your house. They live in their own homes, which they either buy or rent, just like everyone else.

You can not be serious. They are living in vacant homes that have been through foreclosure.

They live in Section 8 housing - sponsored by the federal government.

They live 20 people in 1 room.

I am so sick and tired of barely surviving cause California is so @!$%#ed up.

The reason why we are so screwed is cause look at who has been running the show here in our awesome @!$%# hole of a state 8)The legislature for 40 years has not changed......

Answer 8) Liberal Democrats.

I am a hard working American Tax Payer and my taxes go to pay for illegals.

The illegal who is working is stealing a job from an American Citizen who is unemployed.

My old man who is 60 with MBA (epic fail) 3 years now no job.

My wife just lost her job (were screwed) house is going in Feb.

Both of my brothers mid 20s have college degrees but cant find work so they live at home 8(

We are dying financially here in California.

26.5 BILLION in the hole & why do you think that is

Over Regulation on business & high as @!$%# taxes.

Big Al,

Im sorry to hear your plights. Everyone can witness the real affect on America, and California.

Good luck for your future. You can have some of mine.

• MORE LIKELY than citizens to be actively engaged in the work force, at one or more jobs;
• LESS LIKELY than citizens to receive welfare or other government handouts;
• FAR LESS LIKELY than citizens to commit felony crimes (this is especially true for Latinos in general and Mexicans in particular);
• DO pay taxes, and, in fact, pay MORE in taxes than they receive in government services (unlike American citizens in the aggregate, in these day of deficit spending);
• PAY for, and SUBSIDIZE, government programs that they are ineligible for, such as Social Security, to the tune of billions of dollars a year;
• Have NO legal option for adjusting their residency status;
• Own homes or pay rent for their own homes;
• Are productive members of the communities they live in; and
• Are patriotic and love America;

``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Want to come to California, more specifically L.A., where I live and find out how much BS this is?

8 out the 10 most wanted are illegal aliens

Welfare fraud is rampant and the vast majority collecting a check are for Anchor Babies of illegal aliens. Someone else mentioned Section 8 housing, is all going to house illegals (because of the stupid 'anchor' baby law that needs to be repealed). California is 'starting' to clamp down on the fraud and cut people off, FINALLY!

Hispanics in California have over a 60% drop out rate in our school system. Most are 'English' learners, who receive free breakfast, lunch and after school snacks from the school cafeterias.

Our prisons and jail populations are being saturated with those of Hispanic heritage, primarily illegal aliens.

Our 'gang' membership rolls are over 65% filled with illegals aliens.

I could go on and on and on. I didn't even touch our hospitals (which emergency rooms are being overwhelmed and shutting down). What's 'really' going on in our schools. Jobs or anything else. This is just the tip of the ice burg. Illegals are sucking this state dry and NO ONE (except the taxpayers, who are leaving in droves (those that can)...

Except for the last election, California's have OVERWHELMINGLY tried to pass initiatives and Propositions that are anti-illegal, only to have them overturned upon appeal.

We voted in English Only, Prop 187, No schooling to children of illegals, Going after landlords who rent to them and more, nothing came to fruition and now were being screwed.

I can't wait to leave Mexifornia...

Well I guess this thread struck a nerve....

This whole country is made up of immigrants. None of us were here originally.

I am guessing that Mr. Ramirez has been a fine, upstanding, non-citizen, who is looking forward to contributing to this country that is just as much his as it is ours. He just doesn't have the paper to prove it.

So don't blame him - I am sure at the tender age of 3 he decided to leave home for a better way of life.

So now here he is, a grown man, wanting to contribute, getting an education (and yes a few scholarships to help out with school).

Not everyone that comes here is a low-life - Pick your battles wisely. Deport the ones that are here to create trouble - not those that are willing to contribute.

And Mr BigAl369306 - I also am acutely aware of the job market pain you are suffering - I have been laid off twice in the last 24 months and have had 4 extended periods of unemployment over those 24 months. To boot, I am over 55, so I guess the companies I would work for go for the younger less expensive folks... Getting old s@#ks - so you have to re-invent yourself... I have started over about 4 times now over the years - Corporate America does not give a crap about your employment condition - you are a tax credit.

Uncool RGrant...

Send them home. It's a rational answer. When they can come back legally, we'll welcome them back just like any other American.

When times were better, we didn't notice the things that we could allow for other people to do for us. But there comes a time when you need to tighten your belt, get yourself organized and then when you're all set, you can bring people back.

You wouldn't invite people into your home when it's messy, would you? No, you'd clean up a bit and then welcome them in when it's tidy.

DenverBob - I'm sure he didn't decide to come here at 3, but his parent brought him illegally. He's not to blame, it's his parents. But just because he didn't intentionally break the law, he's still not a citizen. Every cent he earns and has earned is illegal. He never should have gotten a red cent from the US. You can't change the past, but it can be corrected. He should go back home and come here when he's legally able to. Work out a deal with the governement and plea for some aid and talk to the school to help himself get the green card he never corrected for when he found out in high school he was illegal.

No one should be saying the kid or his parents are lowlifes, but they broke a law where the ramification is to be deported back to the country of origin. For all you "speeding is illegal too" folks, the penalty is a ticket. You get one when you get caught, and he got caught doing something illegal.

The Colleges are funded by property taxes make sure the illegals pay property taxes before giving them discounts. Being illegal they don't pay state or federal income tax, so make them get caught up on their taxes first.

I do want to pick my battles, but not at the expense of my blond hair, blue eyed MALE child, for someone who does not belong here, period!

When are people like you going to get that? For every one guy like the one in the story there are thousands that are his exact opposite. We don't need any of them to succeed as a society.

Charity begins at home and we've enough of our own to see to first...

Just thought of an analogy:

If you sneak your kid into a baseball game (or whatever sporting event) and you sneak real close to the field and find some seats that look unoccupied (but could be filled by people who bought them who may be running late) but then you're discovered, say in the 6th inning... Should your kid be allowed to stay and watch the game? And since you were his guardian, should you be allowed to stay with him? I mean, your son has been there for most of the game... shouldn't he be allowed to sit in ill-gotten seats in front of everyone who paid full price for their tickets?

No. He gets ejected with you.

Nice analogy, MytJoe, except that he isn't passively watching a baseball game, he's making valuable contributions to his university, and will almost cetainly go on to make a great living and pay a lot of taxes. I say kick him out if you like. It will be your loss more than his.

I can understand how this young man feels. he's been here since he was too young to even remember Mexico.

I wouldn't call him a criminal. His likely illegal immigrant parents perhaps, but he's a victim of that circumstance. It's not like he had a choice in the matter at the age of 3.

It's one of those few things that I agree with GW Bush on. We need some kind of guest worker program for the migrant Latin American workers so they can come here to live and work legally, and so they can pay their dues/taxes to our society in a proper fashion just like the rest of US while they are here enjoying the benefits of our social welfare systems.

Every illegal immigrant has broken multiple American laws, and each is not paying income taxes into the system like American citizens have to, yet somehow they are able to fleece our Social Security systems, our health care systems, our educations systems, our fire and police people.

They should have to pay some kind of cash penalty for breaking immigration laws just as natural born citizens have to for breaking any other laws, but as long as they haven't caused any criminal trouble in the community they reside in, I think a stiff fine and getting them documented into a proper guest worker program should be sufficient recourse.

I don't care if you came here illegally from Mexico, Columbia, Isreal, or England. You have broken the laws of our country, and you should have to pay some kind of penalty back to the society you have been stealing from.

It has nothing to do with loving thy neighbor. That argument holds no water. Do you think these illegals love you as a neighbor when they are stealing from your government and your children's futures, stealing your tax dollars essentially?

Wow . . . look at all the hateful posts. Well I don't have a problem with this kid, because he worked to get into college. If the illegal is a committing crimes (besides being illegal), obviously that is a different story. But apparently all these anti-illegal immigrant posters are afraid of reality, so I need to be the bearer of bad news.

First, if your kid is having trouble getting into college, that is because your kid is stupid. No one wants to hurt your feelings, but you raised an idiot. If an illegal studies hard in school, and gets better grades than your worthless kid, then good for him/her. I'm a white male, and had no problem picking the college I wanted to go to. Why? Because I studied and maintained a 4.0 gpa. If your kid lost his spot to an illegal, it's because he/she does not have the intelligence to get in. Affirmative action was abolished a long time ago, so don't give me that cry-baby excuse.

Second, and on a similar note, if you lost your job to an illegal, you are stupid. Seriously, if you are only qualified to do the manual labor of an illegal immigrant, I have no sympathy for you. You should have made better decisions with your life. What's worse is I hear people give me a sob story about how they can't support their family because an illegal took their job. Why did you have a family with such a pathetic job? At what point did you say: "Hey, I make minimum wage. Maybe it's time for me to pop out a few mouth-breathers."? So no, an illegal didn't take your job . . . you did not make more with your life. Stop blaming other people for your own failures in life.

Third, not all illegals are violent criminals. But the ones who are should be treated the same as any violent criminal. I have no tolerance for that. If they simply want to get work cleaning toilets, let them. You won't take that job. To the person claiming to live in California and not able to find work. I live here too, my company has been looking to fill spots for over a year. My girlfriends company is in desperate need of new employees. These are jobs that can NOT be filled by illegal aliens . . . so stop crying. The jobs are there, you just need to get off the couch and look.

If your kid is having trouble getting into college, it usually has a lot more to do with the joke of a K-12 education they received. My college professors were constantly reminding the entire class of how poorly prepared most of us were for college because of the garbage K-12 education we received. Hell they kept trying to encourage us to group together and bring a class action lawsuit against the State Board of Education.

The rest of of what you said, I don't necessarily disagree with. However, the fact is illegal immigrants willing broke our laws to be here. Now I'm not considering that to be anything more than a misdemeanor, a relatively minor infraction. Our government needs to stand up for American citizens. Amend and enforce the laws so that everyone is being treated as fairly as possible. This isn't about hating on illegal immigrants. This is about redesigning the system so that they can be empowered to pull their own weight, and I'm sure many of them do wish that our government would get their act together and come up with solutions that will work for everyone. I'm not saying they are the primary cause of our Federal, State, and local level governments' monetary problems, but they aren't helping that dire situation either. If they became documented guest workers that fully pay into our system like the rest of us do, then they would become entitled to fair wages, better working conditions, employee rights, etc. They would be able to hold their heads high in public, and be fully respectable members of our society.

@ Phill Commander

he didn't say "Love thy neighbor if they are legal citizens".

THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS:
Romans 13:1-4, TLB. "Obey the government , for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow. For the policeman does not frighten people who are doing right; but those doing evil will always fear him. So if you don't want to be afraid, keep the laws and you will get along well. The policeman is sent by God to help you. But if you are doing something wrong, of course you should be afraid, for he will have you punished. He is sent by God for that very purpose."

Hypocrite....

"Why dont you drive over to his house, pick him up and seperate him from the country he knows and throw him over the border where his is as much of a stranger as you are. Come to think of it...you might actually enjoy doing that to someone."

I WOULD GLADLY DO THIS.... THIS ACTUALLY JUSTIFIES A VACATION TO CALIFORNIA WHICH I HAVE REFUSED TO TAKE SINCE I AM BOYCOTTING THEM, THEIR PRODUCTS AND EVERYTHING FROM THERE.

@Thoughts from Cali

"if your kid is having trouble getting into college, that is because your kid is stupid.[...]Affirmative action was abolished a long time ago,"

BULL! I studied hard. I also ran track. A minority who usually placed behind me in competition decided to attend the same U as myself. They gave her a full scholarship while offering me only a partial. Want to know the real kicker in this story? She could not pass the ACT test after 4 attempts to qualify for even being on the U track team. I passed it on the 1st attempt. What was their solution for her? They used the language score from one test, the math score from another test, the science score from one of the others. Basically they took the top score from each test in each section to combine and barely get a passing score. Was this fair to me? No it was not. She was a minority and it made them look good to have her on scholarship.

fiscalconservative(not!), you said:

what I understand is that for every one illegal like this young man there are THOUSANDS of illegals here who are outright criminal

But that simply isn't true. In the aggregate, male US citizens aged 18 to 39 commit crimes at a rate approximately five times undocumented males in the same age group. Good policy has to be based on the truth.

Ship the criminal and his criminal parents back to their country.

Where is the story about the single parent working 3 jobs, paying taxes, and obeying the law, whose kid did not get accepted to the school because this criminal took their place?

Kick him out. Period.

So why my U.S. born son that born to a U.S. born mother (and father) and so on struggles to pay for his college education (me and my son,by ourselves) the illegals get discounts and more financial aid that we do. Financial aid comes from the TAX PAYING CITIZENS and I think if they got to vote on this I think they would want it to go to the LEGAL CITIZENS not the illegals. What a phucked up mess this country is!

Byron Raum - The problem with this idea is that the illegal immigrant is paying into the system - a system that you are taking advantage. His social security and medicare taxes are supporting YOU.

Wrong. As stated by La Raza (US Taxpayer Funded), M.E.Ch.A., etc. "CASH FOR WORK ONLY", as employer paperwork means more deductions (less money), and more apprehensions and deportations. This is a violation of the US Tax Evasion Laws that enabled the US Government to seize most of Las Vegas from "Organized Crime", including the "Houses of Ill Repute". That's Right what goes on in Vegas doesn't stay in Vegas, and is known to US Government.

commonsense.... post#1.64.

Uninformed post as usual. Reference your other Newsvine posts on other Topics.

My posts on other Newsvine posts other topics, pertaining to Illegal Aliens prove how uninformed you are on this topic and many others.

Grama1111

Unless you are privileged (born with a silver spoon in your mouth) or senile.

The jobs that most Americans will not do, are those jobs that I did when I was young. Age 11, dragging a lawn mower around to mow everyones lawns to make money to buy a bicycle so that with the bicycle I could go further to mow more lawns to make more money. Later on, teenager picking cucumbers from 6am to 6pm. High School after moving to Georgia, picking peaches. After moving to Alabama, picking cotton at the small farms, so that I could afford a motorcycle and insurance so I could go partying with my friends at Florida. Later moved to Germany (during which I busted my arse working as a Warehouseman). At the end of High School I received my Selective Service Card and earned my College Education, then reentered the US Military as an Officer.

Currently those jobs and other jobs are held by the Illegal Aliens, that do not pay taxes. This driving the US Unemployment in this category (Children of US Citizens, High School Students, High School Graduates, Desperate College Students) to twice the National Average of Unemployment.

Phil Commander,

It takes one to know one, as well as knowning who is not one (Commander). As your posts reflect that you are NOT one (Commander) and is insulting all of us that have to use that title, Commander, as Commanding Officer.

And being the Commander in a video game does NOT count.

Add to post#1.112.

After explaining to him that it is his parents fault, they need to deport him and his parents out of this Great Country.

That way his parents will face the life long wrath of their son's anger for violating the Laws (both US and Mexican) as punishment.

My Senior NCO of my Command, An American (US Citizen First) of Mexican Ancestory (used as a descriptive historically only), Earned his US Citizenship via the US Military, has other more harsh words and things that should be done.

Someone mentioned that my forefathers were illegal immigrants. Agreed, but they assimilated. They came, worked, payed taxes and became americans legally.

Ever been to a Western Union or Moneygram office on Thursday and Friday? More illegal immigrants than you could count sending their untaxed cash back to their country.

Ever see what happens to illegal immigrant when they get sick or injured? Free ambulance, free emergency room and free hospital. Well, not free exactly...tax payers foot the bill.

This disgust me. He took and used funds that were meant for US citizens. Unfortunately, as a former employee of a college I attended, we had student coming in with fake SS numbers and getting financial aid assistance. I was told to keep my mouth shut or lose my job.

These colleges need the students so the people running them keep their big salaries coming in at the taxpayers expense.

The rules of University and Colleges are: if anyone is caught cheating, or of any criminal or illegal activity on a campus will lose all their credits and will be removed from the campus. All the hard work this illegal man did should be erased, and he should be prosecuted according to the law of the land.

Unfortunately, the colleges and universities have the right to overlook these rules and ignore them if they please.

I am so glad I live in a country where the regime in power refuses to abide by the law, refuses to enforce the law and refuses to listen to the overwhelming majority of American citizens. In 2012 I will again vote against every Democrat supporting this invasion.

The Republicans better take note. I like the majority of American citizens don't want more weakness on this issue. Round these invaders up. Cut them off of our public systems and the welfare state, cut them out of our education system, put real criminal penalties on being here illegally and on employers breaking the law.

This is not about hypocritical Christian values, white entitlement or racism. This is about what is right and what is fair.

It is not right for people to enter countries illegally. It is not fair that just because Mexico, and in turn South America are attached to this Nation that they hop a fence and become a burden on our already tired and overcrowded education and social systems. If anyone is tired of having 30+ kids in our public schools, lets weed out the people who shouldn’t be there.

It is not right to allow people to cheat systems that are in place. Giving illegals in state tuition makes is completely unfair to charge citizens or people in the country legally out of state tuition. That fact will in turn cause out of state tuition to be removed and in state tuition to be increased, again punishing the everyday citizen.

Our Nation was built on immigration. I am a second generation American myself. The difference is my family came her with visas in hand and became citizens. It is just plain wrong to provide benefits and services to people who are not citizens if all citizens don’t have them first. It’s not like this is a new idea, check the rest of the world. You can’t wonder around Europe and go to school and get a job if you are not supposed to be there.

If you want to do something about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, go to www.numbersusa.com and become involved

But that simply isn't true. In the aggregate, male US citizens aged 18 to 39 commit crimes at a rate approximately five times undocumented males in the same age group. Good policy has to be based on the truth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then here's you 'truth'... YOU are wrong

In Los Angeles, over 95% of arrest warrants issued for the crime of murder are for illegal aliens. At least 83% of arrest warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens. The number climbs to 86% for Albuquerque. The most wanted lists for each of these cities is comprised of at least 75% illegal aliens.

from this link

www.associatedcontent.com/.../statistics_crimes_commited_by_illegal.html

. I am a second generation American.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm first on my mother side (her first language was not English. Guess what, she (and her family) had to learn it before she went to school as Greek was not covered under 'bilingual' education) and my grandfather picked the harvest during the depression and sent his wages home to support his parents, brothers and sisters (when the wages actually supported large families in a middle class lifestyle). I'm sick and tired of the lies the pro-illegals spread. If the illegals were so damn in need, who did the jobs they take before they arrived? Any job a that they say "Americans' wont do can be filled with prisoners, welfare recipients and or the poor of THIS country, before we ever need 'illegals' to come. American politicians better wake up, because the sleeping giants are starting to rumble...

Chunky-Monkey,

I don't know about you, but the college I went to had us sign an ethics clause in our applications, that everything we put down on our applications was the truth and should they find a 'lie/untruth' written with in it, we could be taken out of school for an ethic violation. I'm pretty sure most colleges have this rule. Why he's still allowed to attend university is a travesty to those ethic clauses, but then others have been allowed to continue their with educations for committing way more egregious crimes...and it's "Northern" California, Pelosi land...

AngelaLD

Let's run for City Council and Board of Supervisors. I completely agree with your take on the state of our city, county and state.

The minute I read your post about your blond haired, blue eyed son, I had to write.

Two of my nieces are also blond haired, blue eyed. They LOVE the Bratz dolls and I wanted to buy them a blonde Bratz family. I wanted them to have blondes because they are blondes. Bratz has always been keen on dolls for all the different ethnic types.

I could not find one blond haired Bratz boy in Los Angeles. I looked everywhere. I finally bought it online from a store in PA. We're the minorities.

What ticks me off about this decision the most is the fact that their parents did not financially contribute to the state in the form of taxes but now their illegal alien kids pay in-state tuition.

And you know what? Our legislature made it possible because the rules for in-state require the student to be a resident (whether legal or not) and a graduate of a CA high school.

I wish I could move but there is not much use for my skills outside of Los Angeles.

I hope you become more active in politics (as much as you can with a child) because CA needs help and you and I know what's wrong. BIG AL does too.

PS AngelaLD

I'm first generation too - on both sides. My mother's first language was French and you'd never know it today. She has an American accent.

That's just great Angela and now you wonder why you work so hard to pay our deficit and want Pedro Ramirez to be your excuse, I don't think so! If your beloved Grandfather didn't send money back home to support his family we wouldn't be in this situation. Pedro should apply for a temporary visa and he should receive one just like your Greek mother who also felt the repercussion and faced the same discrimination Pedro faces now, it's too bad your Grandmother didn't have more support back in those days. She should have stayed in Greece! but no she wanted to stay here and leave you here to retaliate with everyone not born here and complain how bad America treated her and how hard it was for her to succeed in life. My Uncles should not have allowed her to stay if they knew you and your Grandmother were going to be so bitter!!!!!!!!

Opionated

I am so glad you enjoy our AMERICAN blogs.

It's pretty boring up there in Canada eh? So boring that you prefer to be excited by reading posts by Americans (for the most part) talking about America.

Canada did a good job with the Olympics and most Canadians are nice. I think you talk funny and spell words wrong, but that said, you have some beautiful cities.

You mean you have nothing Canadian to talk about with other Canadians?

True American

WHAT DID YOU SAY? Are you critcizing someone because they do not want illegal aliens using benefits paid for by LEGAL RESIDENTS?

Your view is part of the problem. Pedro does not come from a country that faces political persecution. He is from MEXICO. Our own President applauded with Mexico's President in disdain of AZ's law. Technically, Mexico is civilized as in it's not El Salvador.

Angela's mother did not come from a political persecution country either. Her mother HAD A VISA. That is how Angela's mother LEGALLY ENTERED THE COUNTRY.

My parents had visas too BEFORE coming in the country.

I understand why people feel bad for the student. It's not the kid's fault. But, it's not our fault either.

Why in the world should this person get SCHOLARSHIPS and in-state tuition? THOSE SCHOLARSHIPS SHOULD BE GIVEN TO A DESERVING AMERICAN STUDENT.

We have to stop making exceptions. Is this the United States or Mexico? Driving through Los Angeles today, I really wondered.

I saw this sign on NUMEROUS storefronts.

ENVIAR EL DINERO A: MEXICO, GUATEMALA, ETC.

send money to: Mexico, Guatemala, etc.

Karen, your money goes all over the world, invest in the people you know will bring good to America, and if you think you pay to much or pay for something you don't want to pay for move to a Country where the weather is unbearable the residents there receive welfare checks that are partly being paid by your LEGAL RESIDENT status here or some other Country that receives our support let's not include Mexico they don't get welfare checks. Besides international trade and businesses is good for the economy. Did someone forget to tell you, that's where the taxes you pay are being sent to. Not only that you can afford sending your kids to college Pedros parents did.

True American

Your post has a run on sentence of 5 lines. I suggest you remember - subject verb period - to help you gain control over your prose. Sentences should never end in a preposition.

I have ZERO clue what you are trying to say which means the post is not effective to communicate.

I had a hard time following the post on which I did comment which is why I started with "WHAT DID YOU SAY?"

Angela LD

Chunky-Monkey,

I don't know about you, but the college I went to had us sign an ethics clause in our applications, that everything we put down on our applications was the truth and should they find a 'lie/untruth' written with in it, we could be taken out of school for an ethic violation. I'm pretty sure most colleges have this rule. Why he's still allowed to attend university is a travesty to those ethic clauses, but then others have been allowed to continue their with educations for committing way more egregious crimes...and it's "Northern" California, Pelosi land...

Hi Angela. I understand what you are saying, but that is not always the case. As a known felon on the campus I studied at and worked at as well, when I was attacked and the man tried to rob me, witnesses right there watching it, the college covered it upso they wouldn't be embarrassed since they gave him some prestigious award for changing his life around just 3 weeks prior of him attacking me. The same happened to a girl on the campus that was raped in the women's bathroom. Witnesses saw a man running out of the women's bathroom and they went in and found a girl on the floor with her clothes torn off of her. They covered that up as well just so the college doesn't look bad. When I came across a student that was using an illegal SS number, I was told to keep my mouth shut or start looking for a new job. All these people running these institutions are interested in is making money regardless on these that get hurt in the process.

It's always about the money, and people are expendable!

any one who violates a federal law is a criminal and not just a little lost

I love all the people saying that he's going to be a good productive taxpaying citizen after he graduates...

What if he doesn't? What if he decides that he doesn't in fact want to stay here or what if he takes all his money and sends it back to Mexico?

Not to mention he's illegal and won't be legally making money in the US, which means if he's paid under the table (which means he's more likely to wash dishes with that diploma than to get that Fortune 500 job... because as he said, he "couldn't lie and accept the stipend offered to the student body president...")

So that means no income taxes from this "potentially highly productive" student!

Try to think it through people.

Best case scenario for him: He illegally makes his millions and sends it to banks in other countries to launder it and he lives fat without actually paying a dime in taxes or for his scholarship. But don't worry, he's bettered himself...

It's great that he wants to make himself better, but he should have started from the bottom up and worked on his citizenship as soon as he found out in high school that he was an illegal alien.

commonsense...How did they buy those homes they live in?? Last time I bought one I had to submit my W9, W2s,Credit check, SSN.....So if they're here illegally how did they buy one?? Oh wait...*I* know....Because of the Government...You've heard of Freddie and his bi*ch Frannie yeah??

Somebody made mention that many of the hardworking taxpayers are illegal immigrants.

Uhhh...how does that work? Are we naive enough to believe that they are obtaining tax payer ID's? lol puhlease

nico-383340

inronic, during the vietnam war if you were in school you could get a deferment. If you weren't then you got drafted. Sounds like someone thinks the same program would be good for illegals; go to school or join the service. Are these people held in such high regard they are priveleged at the level of a citizen or vietnam verteran? I've always wanted them out but if our ahole leaders won't close the border!!!!!

For you talk about Vietnam and closing the U.S. borders in the same post is unbelievable. Wasn't it communism that we were supposed to be fighting against in Southeast Asia? And yet here you are... supporting a border closure exactly the same way as the communists did in Berlin after WWII. Would you be satisfied if we had towers manned with armed guards from San Diego to San Antonio too? Because that sounds too much like communism to me.

Rick's Real wrote:

For you talk about Vietnam and closing the U.S. borders in the same post is unbelievable. Wasn't it communism that we were supposed to be fighting against in Southeast Asia? And yet here you are... supporting a border closure exactly the same way as the communists did in Berlin after WWII. Would you be satisfied if we had towers manned with armed guards from San Diego to San Antonio too? Because that sounds too much like communism to me.

Now see, what sounds like communism to me is that our leaders want us to "embrace" our illegal comrades and welcome them into the fold.

A government "of the people, by the people and for the people" would actually make decisions that reflect the "will" of the people. I don't support a border closure, but if that's what "the people" of this country want, then we should try it.

We should put this entire immigration situation and the many options to solving it, to a national vote.

The will of the people does not mean that anything Americans "want", they get. It has to fall within the framework of the constitution. All three branches of government help impose the will of the people, but do so within that constitutional framework.

That big closed-border wall? Never ever gonna happen while this country is called America and abides by the constitution.

Rick's RealThat big closed-border wall? Never ever gonna happen while this country is called America and abides by the constitution.

time to change the name then.

Sara: Where is his home? Mexico does not have to take him back, he has been gone since he was three. It is so easy to say send kick him or her out, without looking at the whole story. What the parent did was wrong, but why should the child suffer, if he or she are being a productive member of society? He is going to school. I think the path to citizenship is what drives most people crazy, so I double the number of years or triple the number of years of eligibility for citizenship (10/15) instead of the required 5 years. As a resident alien he will be issued a SS card, pay taxes and can be drafted. The only catch is that he cannot vote until he becomes a naturalized citizen.

There are two issues here: What to do with non-citizen children of illegals, and whether to confer benefits on non-citizen illegals who are not paying into the system. We can have a civil discussion regarding the latter without having to address the former.

There are multiple problems with conferring public university benefits on illegals right now. The California university system has neither the money nor the space to do so without directly depriving California state citizen-residents. For example, the UC system has had to reduce the number of student admissions this past year by 2,300 students because of budget cutbacks. They also raised tuition by 32% this fall, and have plans for additional increases next year. They also increased the number of out-of-state students so that the UC's can charge higher tuition, further reducing the number of available seats for children of state residents. All of this is also happening at a time when student applicants are at a historical high because of a baby boom for this generation of students.

In this environment, by giving illegals the same benefits, the citizen-residents are being deprived a seat within the UC system, even though their parents have been paying state income, property and sales tax to support it. The reason the UC charges higher tuition for out-of-state students is because their parents have not paid California state taxes, and therefore should not be allowed to free-load. Why doesn't the same apply for the children of illegals who have not paid into the system?

While this particular student at Fresno State may have arrived when he was still a toddler, the state law allows anyone who skirted the law for 3 years by enrolling in a California high school to be deemed a resident for tuition purposes. This will only encourage foreigners to break this country's immigration laws in search of benefits that it otherwise may not receive in their home country.

Let's take care of our citizens and legal residents first!

"I just kept it within. One of those things you don't tell anyone," Ramirez told the Los Angeles Times. "But now I'm almost relieved to have to be open. Congress is about to vote on the Dream Act, which gives college students a path to citizenship. So, you know, here I am. It's me. I am one of the thousands whose fate is in their hands."

What a coincidence.

This is what aggravates me. He knew he should apply for citizenship, but he didn't. And that was probably because he didn't want to, and because he was benefiting financially with the school regarding his minority illegal alien status in California.

you hit the monkey on the nose there sara-1600751!! infact why stop at illegals? if your parent commited murder and died before being captured, THROW THEIR KIDS IN JAIL! its JUSTICE! WHO IS WITH ME!?!?!?

Ok...now that the insanity is out of the way...How about letting these kids stay? give them a chance to become legal and add to the tax pool. Who knows, maybe one of these kids will save the life of someone you care about.

For Last Iconoclast

Finally a well reasoned argument. I thought I'd never run into one.

I would agree that the 3 year limit is too short. It should probably be longer.

Consider this point though. The reason a state and government want to give out money for tuition is that the individual will use that education to contribute more back to society. If a college education allows someone to increase their wealth they would then increase the amount of taxes they pay back to society. From an economic standpoint you want to chose someone that will likely stay in your country contributing rather then take the education and leave. This is why you often restrict benefits to those with citizenship.

Now, if someone lives in the country from the age of 3 onward are they as likely to stay in the country as someone who was born here 3 years earlier? Very likely especially if they thought they were a citizen for most of their life. Would it be better to give that person an education especially if they're getting better grades and achieving a higher level of success compared to another person who was in the country during birth but is getting very poor grades and not likely to give as much back as the person who came here while 3?

The law should be changed to a longer period and be based upon academic performance. Incentives such as tuition reduction should encourage better academic performance and the likelihood of the student staying in both the country and California.

Finally, budget cuts and tuition increases are getting very bad for California. I don't think that money going to illegal immigrants are actually putting a dent in this problem. There are also plenty of legal citizens who's parents aren't putting much into the system outside of sales tax which illegal also immigrants pay. The legal citizens don't pay much if any at all in the form of income tax to the state.

The only real solution you're going to have to fix tuition increases and budget cuts to state run colleges is to increase state taxes. But..... no one wants to hear that so the problem of higher tuition and budgets cuts is going to remain.

Correct..he lied...for a long time. Liars should not be "handed" anything. Let him do things the right way and stay here if he wants. Give the in state tuition to someone who deserves it. Just my humble opinion.

why didn't he try and become a citizen when he turned 18 ? I'll tell you why, because he knew his whole family has broken the law, and instead of doing the right thing , he decided to keep breaking the law, no sympathy for these illegal aliens, send them and their anchor babies back to where ever they came from, enough is enough

Where do you think he is going to put his college-honed intellect and skills to use? Mexico? HE graduated high school and got scholarships (given to people who perform well in school) - he did it fair and square.

You think his family DON'T pay taxes?

While I feel he ought to pursue US citizenship, this doesn't mean that we should stop a capable person who will no doubt contribute to U.S. society from going to college.

Really, people, think it through. This guy isn't the immigration problem; the problem is people with no skills or means of support sneaking into this country and undercutting wages while sending their earnings to another country. That drains the economy.

This guy is no different than his US citizen classmates in cultural alignment.

Charlzm this is the current problem with this issue... It's enraged soooo many people that can't see this person as different from the one that murdered a couple in Arizona. Everything is now lumped into the same category. Unfortunately this happens all over the place in many issues because lumping things into a category of similarity is easier then dissecting each case.

Here are some other examples where people lump everything into one category as opposed to looking at individual cases.

Catholic pedophilia: Estimates of its prevalence match those of other organization yet everyone now things all Catholic priest are pedophiles.

Members of the religion Islam: Estimates for those of them that are actually terrorist are relatively low compared to the entire population but "everyone" now thinks that each one of them has a bomb strapped to their chest.

Illegal Immigrants: Some of them are detrimental to society, most don't effect it much, and a few become very very beneficial. Much easier to put everyone of them into the detrimental to society group.

Until people are willing to take a more difficult path and analyze each situation rather then lumping things together you will always see people refusing to think things through....

I am pretty sure his parents are included among those hard-working American taxpayers, unless they have been working under the table for cash for the last 15 years.

Here's the deal. I believe the article says that he PAYS in-state tuition. If the universities don't charge enough tuition to cover the services provided (don't ask me about the freebies that some student athletes get, that's a whole different conversation), then the tuition needs to be reassessed. So, this kid is paying his way. More than that, he's ambitious and self-motivated enough to become president of the student body. Exactly the kind of people we WANT in this country. It seems to me that universities are over-enrolled. I can tell you that I attended my share of higher education, and I would say that 50% (or more at some universities) of the students SHOULD NOT BE THERE. I would say that those people (and their clueless parents) are the ones guilty of mucking up the university systems. Not everyone should go to college, quite frankly, and not every career should require it. It makes incredible sense to take people like this kid and claim them as our own. It makes a lot of sense to take people who love this country enough to fight for it and claim them as our own. And it makes sense to curb the "problem" illegal immigration by curbing the demand side of it as much or more than the supply side of it. Kicking this kid out of the country because his parents broke the law will simply result in another country having someone with the smarts to be competetive with THIS country, and it doesn't have to be Mexico. For those that think he should have become a citizen, he didn't arrive in this country by legal means (not by his doing)--do you think it would have even been possible to begin the process without paperwork????

Nikita-2054298;

Your opinion is not humble, nor is it allowing the facts to get through.

He didn't know he was illegal until he was a senior in high-school. This means scholarships were guaranteed, colleges probably already selected and applied for, and college was pretty much his for the taking.

Since he is still in college it is likely he is only 22/23 years old. He has only known for roughly 5 years and ANY guidence counselor would tell him to not say anything, particularly if they care for this kid, or heck... even this country.

The kid is an exceptional individual who we WANT as a citizen. If he has been doing well in school, and I were anyone who knew the truth, I'd keep my mouth shut because it is a burden he doesn't need to bear.

Any student, legal or not, that does well in school is going to help this country! Particularly if they can still manage to get into college.

Yea, except many of the hard working taxpayers are also illegal immigrants.

TAx payers dont pay student loans the student does when he/she graduates. but this guy should have applied for citizenship years ago. Remember this, we are all immigrants unless your a native American.

So what do all you retards really belive that we are all paying for his education? Well guess what we are not his parents and his extended family whom i'm sure are hard working and humble people, unlike many of you! Not only do Mexican's/Latino's work hard for low pay but then they don't get to file for a tax return and guess where that money goes (most likely to the Appalachian trailer dwellers) Check for your yourself.

@fiscalconservative wrote "

Phil, stuff a sock in it. You are such a pompous fool to say things like illegal immigrants are the same thing as people who go more than 2 miles over the speed limit. By your logic someone who goes 2 miles over the speed limit is the same as a murderer. After all, a law breaker is a law breaker."

Yes, a lawbreaker is a lawbreaker. The difference is the punishment that is meted out when convicted. The 2 miles over the limit gets a warning, the murder gets life or the death penalty and the illegal gets deported.

Illegal is illegal. There is no gray area.

If that were the case, the penalty for jaywalking would be the same as the penalty for mass murder. Thankfully, it is not true.

the article says that he PAYS in-state tuition.

Since he's lived practically his whole life in California, and his parents have been paying California taxes for all that time, in-state tuition seems appropriate. Many states offer in-state tuition after only one year of residency.

This is the perfect example of a BROKEN system and neglectful parents! The parents should be ashamed!!! Don't give me the bs about "wanted a better life for my children..boo hoo"! If they wanted a better life for their children they would have come here the right and legal way. Instead they left an ax hanging over his head and an angry mob wanting to take the immigration issue all out on him.

IIn the 90's I worked in the maquilladoras on the U.S. Mexican frontiera, Reynosa, Matamoras, and Juarez before it was a war zone.
Every morning I saw kids crossing into the U.S. to go to school.
Although I commend this guy his achievements, college is a finite resourse. We are importing engineers,

Both of my great grandfathers came from Haiti, one as a stowaway, today, as Haitians they would be deported, it's the different treatment for certain aliens that burns my ass.

The guy in this article, and his cohort, are culturally Americans.

To remedy this , fix the cotton pickin' borders.

He pays taxes, dumbass.

this guy should have applied for citizenship years ago.

That sounds reasonable, until you examine the current law. The ONLY way this guy can apply for citizenship is to 1) leave the United States, the only country he knows, 2) wait 10 years before applying for an entry visa, and 3) wait until a visa is issued, IF he can even get one. Of course, if he admits to having crossed the border without inspection when he was three years old, which has not been proven but seems to be the case, he will automatically be declared ineligible for a visa, EVER.

Or, we could just change the law, and ALLOW him to apply for citizenship. In my opinion, he has already earned citizenship.

It was VERY brave of him to risk the life he knows and loves (and endanger the well-being of his parents!) to bring this important issue to light.

If they wanted a better life for their children they would have come here the right and legal way.

It is a common misperception that a legal avenue exists for everyone, when for most people, there is none.

Commonsense: Wrong again. Illegal is illegal. No grey area. There may be a grey area regarding the severity of the crime, but illegal is illegal. No argument.

There are no legal avenues for most people? You might want to go ahead and rethink that one.

There are also grey areas regarding the severity of punishment.

Example: Illegal to go 1 mile over the speed limit.

Punishment: Maybe an officer tells you not to do it again.

Still illegal right?

Example: Illegal to be brought to the country illegally at the age of 3 then find out about it over a decade later, enter college and likely to pay a nice amount of taxes to said country .

Punishment: Pays fees to immigration for citizenship

Problem solved.

le jabali, did you sneak across the border too? Do you know of L.A. The land of the reconquistadores? Our prisons, cities, hospitals and govt services are overrun and you talk of hard work? where the hell are you from and what is your agenda?

That; or, find a deterrent.

How about: forced labor for five years, followed by being deported. That might curb their incentive.

As opposed to govt spending and taxes as I am, at least we'd be getting some cheap labor, and there would be some sort of consequence, as opposed to just sending them home.

Problem solved.

SmallGov,

Do you live up to your name? Allowing this kid to apply for citizenship would cost him a few hundred dollars, maybe thousands, and the government nothing, because the fees are geared to the cost of running the program.

Problem solved. Efficient government.

Your proposal would cost hundreds of billions and possibly trillions, while providing no real benefit (beyond emotional satisfaction) to anyone.

Big problem. Big government. Ballyhooing counterproductive, self-defeating immigration policy as an alternative to justice and enlightened self interest is not small government.

"The legal citizens don't pay much if any at all in the form of income tax to the state"

Doggysaywhat, say what?! California's tax rate for those of us that make more than $47k a year (which in case you've never tried to pay rent in LA county, is far from rich) is a whopping 9.55%! No other states tax rates are that high until you hit at least $150k (Hawaii). California also has the highest sales tax in the nation, ranging from 8.25 to 10.75% depending where you are (though, as has been pointed out- even illegals pay that). We are paying out the nose for an utterly broken system. And while handouts to illegals are most definitely a problem, so are handouts to folks born here who have been living on welfare for years. Personally, I'm a lot more concerned with what someone contributes to society than where they happened to be born.

commonsense wrote "It was VERY brave of him to risk the life he knows and loves (and endanger the well-being of his parents!) to bring this important issue to light."

No. He was avoiding the issue during all parts of the registration process and only spoke out when he had already been threatened to be exposed.

How did he manage so long without a social security number? Did he knowingly use another person's #?

He is illegal. The school and anyone else who knew should be held accountable. Aiding a criminal.

Jahmekan - Sara: Where is his home? Mexico does not have to take him back, he has been gone since he was three.

The legal precedent has already been set. As the other case was a 1 year old child brought to the US by his Illegal Alien parents. At deportation he was a High School Student and had to go back to Mexico. His hatred needs to be placed where it belongs, on his parents.

The current International Reciprocal Laws pertaining to Citizenship apply. As (without all the legalese mumbojumbo) the child of two US Citizens born in a foreign nation once registered with the nearest US Embassy is a US Citizen. As is the case with McCain (born at Panama, (Panama Canal Zone) as formerly held by the US.). Translation. Irregardless he is a Mexican Citizen, until he becomes the Citizen of another Nation (denounces allegiance to the Nation of Mexico and sworn or affirmed allegiance to another Nation).

To all those that state "US Must Take the Moral High Ground", based on your previous posts. The descriptive is two faced (speaking two diametrically opposed ideas) hypocrites (changing your opinion when the situation is the same or worse but at a different location).

Example: "Those saying Illegal Bush Wars". 1. These (Iraq and Afghanistan) are UN Missions (Humanitarian Aid, Nation Building/Rebuilding). 2. Since the 1980s fully funded and approved by you thru the US Congress (the President does not control the funding). 3. By International Law (UN, 1907 Hague Convention, 1949 Geneva Convention, etc.), the Stating, Funding, Organizing, etc. of the Overthrow of a Sovereign Nation's Government is a Declaration of War, with President Clinton's H.R.4655, 1998, becoming the Declaration of War as the Invasion of Iraq by the US Military to: "Overthrow the Iraqis President and Iraqis (Parliamentary Democratic) Government to Liberate the Iraqis People" aka Operation Iraqis Freedom this was done to adhere to the 1973 War Powers Resolution. First US Military Operation after President Clinton's Declaration of War with Iraq was Operation Desert Fox, 1998.

If you want to do something about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS go to www.numbersusa.com. get involved!

I wonder what have we been doing with tax money collected from illegal working immigrants with fake SS cards? Where has that money been going to? It is not projected tax income in any budget...

Sara where should I send you if here is where you were born? I should pass a law to prevent your behavior!!!!!! Pedro has done more for Fresno than you have in my book, His personality speaks high volumes and you, you need more education, maybe you can't continue is that it?, you must have a criminal record and are stuck paying taxes for people who desire to do something good for America and achieve it. And for Santiman you should join Sara, it goes to the IRS du!!!! Do you both really think that they have been surviving on stolen goods. Good thing we still have good people in America especially the ones that don't complain about paying taxes and give scholarships to people like Pedro Ramirez, they made the decison to pay the scholarship and it didn't come out of your pocket!!!!!!

The True American-2652640, you got me confused: do you mean to say that the illegal immigrants are legally paying taxes!? If that is the case this young man probably already paid his dues (or his family did for him.) Otherwise, at the end of tax year IRS cannot balance the books against a tax form while keeping moneys illegally reported. Buying/keeping stolen goods makes you an accomplice to the crime. Duh!!

An enlistment in the Armed Forces for three years should clear a way to citizenship or allow immediate citizenship at end of service for him. Put his education to use in the public sector and reward his commitment to the U.S.

For westcoast1.

Let me clarify that in the sentence "The legal citizens don't pay much if any at all in the form of income tax to the state" I was referring to the group of citizens in the previous sentence "There are also plenty of legal citizens who's parents aren't putting much into the system outside of sales tax which illegal immigrants also pay." I should have used "those" instead of "the" in the previous sentence for clarity.

My argument was to point out that the 3 year rule may be abused but you need some sort of rule in place to encourage those people that will benefit society to stay in the country. This argument was also to counter the well reasoned arguments of lasticonoclast regarding giving benefits to illegal immigrants vs citizens.

Encouraging people to stay in the country is usually done by giving those benefits to citizens. But, this person as well as many others in his situation already have a huge incentive to stay and pay taxes so booting those ones out while allowing many citizens that are on welfare to stay is counterproductive to having a stable economy. This kid is probably going to be in the >10% state income tax range so keep him here along with others like him that will also be in that >10% range, serve in the military, or complete a college education.

The 3 year thing is a detail issue that can be worked out in courts as needed. If you made it 5 years but found someone that was here for 4 years but was going to college and had ties to the community, a judge could determine that they were deserving of citizenship. I honestly don't know how long it should be other then to say probably greater then 3 years but not greater then 10 with the option to adjust the amount on an individual basis.

doggysaywhat,

That makes sense, thanks for the clarification. There are a lot of folks who don't pay much in the way of taxes here (we have 12% of the US population, and 33% of US welfare recipients...), legal or not.

As for the years, I think you're on track. Three years seems very low to me, but I'm not sure what the right number is either.

amen!

j.wesley, you're a funny guy. You want to haul Obama before a jury? For what? Please enlighten us, and make sure you add why Obama should be brought up and not GW Bush. Thanks.

Alasdair - where is your compassion? You don't seem like the kind of person who who would help a stranger down on his luck.

Hopefully your ancestry isn't Scottish (bad enough that you have a Scottish name) - now that would be embarassing!

I'll take this "criminal" over Alasdair, Aaron and j.wesley (amongst others in this forum) without a second thought. He was a toddler when he was brought here, he didn't know he was here illegally until he was a fully Americanized part of society, and now he is student body president. If you have issues with those that are consciously crossing our borders illegally and killing our health care system, direct your anger at them and at the @!$%#s in this country that use them to make or save an extra buck, but this guy is not the enemy. He is now qualified to do more than pick tomatoes, and is probably a better hire than any of you for a position that would be instrumental in bringing this country out of the sorry economic condition it is in right now.

Because everyday he's in office, and does not up hold his oath of office, he breaks the laws of the United States. If he thinks the laws should be changed he has the same avenue for change as any other citizen actually more so, but he knows that SH*T won't fly. So he, and his stooge Eric Holder have chosen to stall enforcing the COUNTRIES LAWS.

The guy's in college, and he's a student body president, indicating that he is hard-working and ambitious. That tells me two things: First, that allowed to stay, within a few years he'll probably be making more money, and paying more taxes than any 10 natural born U.S. citizens. And second, that he's a heck of a lot smarter and more accomplished than most of the people posting in this column.

So, all that considered, I can see why you guys would feel threatened by him.

This is the perfect example of a BROKEN system and neglectful parents! The parents should be ashamed!!! Don't give me the bs about "wanted a better life for my children..boo hoo"! If they wanted a better life for their children they would have come here the right and legal way. Instead they left an ax hanging over his head and an angry mob wanting to take the immigration issue all out on him.

He's obviously intelligent, likable, hard working, honest, and going places in his life. I would assume he speakes Spanish pretty well, and could easily make a great living in Mexico, so deportation is something he couuld probably recover from fairly easily. The rel question is, why the hell would you want to deport someone who can and is contributing so well to society?

Future History and mandt- I'm right there with you. The kid didn't knowingly break any laws entering the US, and followed all the rules in California, odd as they are. With the kind of work ethic required to be a student body president, who presumably manages to keep good grades as well, this guy would make a great citizen. Good companies don't go firing their most productive or promising employees (well, usually)- what sense would it make for the US to kick out their most productive or promising residents?

I wouldn't hire anyone that used another person's social security number for his life.

He has no right to be here. He should be sent away. Period. He found out he was illegal, and stayed. What would the mexican goverment have done? That is what we should do.

Dave-2085674 - and not GW Bush. Thanks.

See post #2.37.

sanandrian - Alasdair - where is your compassion?

See post #2.37.

mandt - that allowed to stay

Sure if he and his parent pay for all the stuff they received at US Taxpayer expense FIRST, not after. examples: Health Care, Public Education, Public Assistance, etc..

Κυριάκος - The rel question is, why the hell would you want to deport someone who can and is contributing so well to society?

He has not contributed anything yet, and if he worked he is a felon (criminal) for tax evasion. Or using a fictious Social Security Number.

Future History, failure as Future History. As Illegal is Illegal let him punish his parents with his hatred after being deported with them.

but this guy is not the enemy.

Oh, yes he is as knowingly violating the US Laws while being a Mexican Citizen, since he has not denounced his Mexican Citizenship while becoming a US Citizen which he has not even attempted (proving either laziness or out right contempt for the US Laws).

fatima-2679446 - you ignorant pig! unless your grandfather is a red indian, u dont belong to this country either!

Clearly you do not belong to this country either. Or you would know that the "red indian" (real name native americans, indian being an insult) are no more native than anyone else as they too came to America by the Land Bridge (as to why they are genetically related to the Eskimos and Asians).

westcoast1 seems you have more work to do to solve your Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State of California, than be on here posting baloney. As California spends over $10 Billion USDs each year on Illegal Aliens of the $85 Billion USDs yearly budget. Money does not fall from the sky as "mana from heaven", it comes from all US Taxpayers. This $10 Billion per year spent on Illegal Aliens then becomes UNAVAILABLE for US CITIZENS (addition and subtraction as failed by you.), like Education (Tuition Increases USC), Firefighting (recent Forest Fires and Layoffs), Law Enforcement (Layoffs), Irrigation (recent droughts), Infrastructure, etc.). With the Illegal Aliens not paying taxes (as stated by La Raza, M.E.Ch.A., etc. Cash for Work Only, as employer paperwork means more apprehensions and deportations). This is a FELONY CRIME, TAX EVASION.

Translation you would rather support a Felon, Tax Evader from Mexico than US Citizens.

Alasdair, you're an absolute fool. Why should this kid be punished for something that he had absolutely no control over? What if someone came up to you tomorrow and said that you were here illegally and you had to return to living in suffering and poverty? How would you react?

1- I agree that if he is a student body president must be because he is probably a brighter mind than others not illegal.

2- He was a toddler and did not chose to be here, however, he did not take this country's opportunities for granted while others born here do and are more wasteful of tax money than what he is.

3- It takes from 5 up to 10 years to get a "green card". If your life situation would be a dire one would you wait 10 years or would you jump over the fence for a better life for your family?

4- It will cost us more to send him back now than keeping him here. The money has been used already, he is educated and bright. Why not using that brain rather than wasting it?

5- Illegal immigrants are willing to fight our wars for a chance to stay legally. Good chance for the discriminating locals to dodge the call of duty.

David, you are clearly the failure.

let him punish his parents with his hatred after being deported with them

Who even thinks like this? Promoting hatred is abhorent. You are an embarassment to this country and to mankind in general.

No, David, I just don't see the point in throwing out someone we have already invested in. When you deport someone, it's not as if the state and federal banks get a refund for any services rendered to an alien while they were here. Education is an investment in the future, and- like it or not- we have already invested in this kid. Sounds like he's a senior, who if granted resident alien status, would begin paying dividends in the form of taxes back to the US at graduation. I'll take that option over throwing 20 years of tax money spent on him down the drain. Also, the article mentioned specifically that he turned down his stipend, so he hasn't evaded taxes as you have speculated.

I'm not saying we shouldn't deport anyone- but as you pointed out, we have limited resources. We should be using them on the aliens that commit violent crimes and such, rather than those on the brink of making contributions to our nation.

*6*6*6*

He came when he was 3. Should he have moved back when he found out in high school? Should we punish people for crimes their parents committed?

What an A-hole.

Oh, yeah, that's a smart use of funds. You're a genius. You know it costs more to keep prisoners than to send kids to college, don't you?

True, locking him up is counter-productive.

He needs to be deported!

Why not let him graduate, get his degree, get a good job, and start paying taxes. He's obviously a bright guy. He'll probably be pulling down six figures in a couple of years. We need every big fat taxpayer we can find these days.

if he makes too much your republicans will see to it he can avoid taxes

Not to worry, snake, the dimocrats will make him pay and pay and pay because dimocrats never met a tax they didn't like.

Now what in bloody hell that has to do with the subject is a mystery. Or do you just like to whine because obama got slapped in the last election?

I do feel for this kid, he didn't know he was here illegaly and undoubtably was too scared to do anything about it when he did find out. He is only mexican by birth otherwise he is an American in every other way. He would be lost in Mexico.

Legally he is not allowed to work in the US.

Hey mandt,

He probably will graduate, and then take your job! LOL

1. He is NOT paying taxes. He can't get a job legally so he is not able to work so he is NOT paying taxes. He admitted this when he took the position as Student Body president. How is he going to get a job after college? He can't legally take a job without the proper paperwork. Any employer who hires him is also breaking the law.

2. Those who are working and paying taxes are doing so illegally via stolen paperwork and identities. Thus they are committing more than one crime. Crime 1=illegal status Crime 2=identity theft and fraud

3. How did he get into school to begin with? I had to have a birth certificate to start school. I remember applying for high school and they not only wanted my birth certificate but they wanted proof that my father was stationed overseas when I was born because I was born on an American base in Germany. Was my high school the only one doing their job by checking my citizenship? Same happened when I applied for University. These schools he attended need to be investigated to figure out why his family was not reported as illegal when he started school.

4. How did he get scholarships as an illegal? Scholarships in my experience required paperwork to apply. Including social security numbers. Frankly, those scholarships should go to the American kids. I am sick of hearing how minorities don't get a fair break.

In my experience, a minority is a number showing that the company is not discriminating. My former manager at Books-A-Million insisted I "assist" a minority in taking the test so that they could hire a "miniority woman" so that they would not be described as racist.

I want FAIR hiring practices. I want FAIR granting of scholarships. I want illegals working to pay taxes legally or get out of the USA and stop taking government assistance for the illegal's "anchor babies".

5. I feel for this guy but facts are he is illegal. His parents are illegal. He needs to go apply for citizenship and pray he gets it. Otherwise he needs to go back to his birth place.

He should have a good chance considering he speaks English; however, his parents should not be so lucky if they can't speak the language of America. I am really sick of non-natives insisting we accommodate other languages. Our constitution is written in English. English is the primary language in America. Learn it or get out. I was not happy to be told I was more than qualified in every way for a GOVERNMENT job except I did not speak Spanish. I should not have to speak Spanish to work for the State or the Federal Governments.

6. O and one last thing. If Mexico is such a horrid place to live then start a revolution and make changes to the government. I am sick of hearing how people come to America for a better life. If enough people are unhappy with a government the people will revolt. With our lax border system, we are making it easier for them to come here to ruin our nation rather than forcing them to fight to fix their own nation.

mandt,

How about this you go feed a hungry wild wolf. And when he comes back with his pack to tear you to pieces. Then tell me that is not what is happening with all the Freebies the Illegal Aliens are getting. Even those at Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State of California realized what was happening when they attempted to stop the Illegal Aliens from getting US Taxpayer paid Public Assistance with Proposition 187, "Save Our State" Initiative, which was defeated by the Lawyers of La Raza. With La Raza, M.E.Ch.A, etc. stated goal of the overthrow of States to form Aztlan.

Heck who wouldn't want to get all the Freebies. Instead of getting off their arses and making their own Country better.

This Kid has qualities most of our legal hell spawn could never have. Honor and Charicter are ingredients most of great leaders of our country possed. I hope this kid becomes a cornerstone in our society that can transcend a message to all of us. Most all Americans have a family tree of immigrants that were illegalat one time or another in our country's short History.

This kid is as American as any of you people denouncing him on here. He never even knew Mexico as his home country and was raised as an American. I'm a tax paying American and I SAY he stays!

Odds are if you knew him personally, you would be defending him, not just tossing him aside like some piece of garbage.

People cry over the costs of immigrants which pale in comparison to Bushs tax cuts for the very wealthy and few are up in arms about that issue. Not to this extreme anyway. Is it the cost or the race we despise?

We really have to stop isolating ourselves from the rest of the world. We spew as much hate towards other countries as do the Middle East extremists about us. How are we any better than them when we conduct ourselves in such a manner?

Wow, 21 million illegal aliens in our country. When did we finally take notice?

There probably is no path to citizenship for him. That's the point. He was brought here at the age of three, grew up american, and did not know his citizenship status until he was a senior in high school. He would undoubtedly be a valuable member of our society, but unless or until he marries and american citizen, there is probably no avenue for his gaining status.

You know what Craig? That's too bad. His parents should have thought of this before they came here illegally and put their kid into a limbo like this. But the fact that his parents knowingly broke our laws and created this problem for him shouldn't be allowed to become everybody else's problem.

And by clearing the way for people like him and giving him a path to citizenship, all you are doing is encouraging more of the same. That is exactly what has happened everytime we granted amnesty in the past.

HEY CRAIG------- How about the same way every other legal alien becomes a citizen

Why don't you go to another country illegally, and then try to become a citizen from within. It's almost impossible!

Yes his parents should have thought of it, but if you ever went to Mexico, you would understand why the hell they want to get out.

Jews fleeing nazi terror didn't give a flip about breaking immigration laws to get out. I'm not saying mexicans are being persecuted by their government, but it is not where you want to be, trust me. There are some laws worth breaking if your life or childrens' lives depend on it

So what JC? We should just throw our doors open and let everyone come here who has a rotten situation at home? Really?

And I have family who fled Nazi Germany. Some of them came here. Legally.

fiscalconservative: You know what Craig? That's too bad. His parents should have thought of this before they came here illegally and put their kid into a limbo like this. But the fact that his parents knowingly broke our laws and created this problem for him shouldn't be allowed to become everybody else's problem

What you are saying here is to punish the child for the offenses of the parents. So, why limit it to the children of illegal aliens. After all, fair is fair. If one of your children is arrested and convicted, you should be convicted with the same sentence. If anyone's child is arrested for anything, convict the parent along with the child.

Sorry Dale, but your "logic" is not logical. It's just more of the typical childish "reasoning" liberals on these boards regularly indulge themselves in and than pat each other on the back over for being so "clever."

And he is now a legal adult. An adult who is here illegally. He is breaking the law.

Because he is illegal he has no greencard which is the first step to application for citizenship.

Personally I work in education and I wonder how he is receiving aid and was even admitted, because he would not have a Social Security number and this is required.

If you would know a little bit more about immigration process, then you would know why people can't apply for citizenship. If you knew more about how tax payers money is used, you would know that undocumented immigrants have no access to any type of government money. Undocumented students pay for their own tuition with the help of community scholarships. Get your facts straigth.

Go to Mexico, get a job, then announce in the newspaper that you are there illegally, and you will be deported before anyone has a chance to post a mispelled comment about it. Wait, they'll have plenty of time to comment, because you will be deported AFTER you get out of jail for being an illegal immigrant. And if you're from Guatemala, the policia will most likely take all of your money, and maybe not shoot you in the jungle.

We should just throw our doors open and let everyone come here who has a rotten situation at home? Really?

If not, then I guess that we should change what is written on the statue of liberty. Yes illegal immigration is a problem, but so is racism. Deal with the problem of illegal aliens without teaching our kids how to be racists.

his parents have been here for yrs illegally, they probably stole thiers and his, this has got to stop, the dream act only requires you say you will go to college and or join the military, they don't actually have to go, it will mean that any illegal alien 34yrs old or younger can become a citizen just by saying they will do something, we can not allow this liberal piece of garbage to be rammed down our throats like obamacare,ENOUGH IS ENOUGH send them all back, to whatever 3rd world cesspool they came from

First of all if you knew the immigration law, you would know that INS and congress have blocked certain laws that would allow this person to seek a path to citizenship. Without a family member like a mother or father to petition you there is no way to path for citizenship. A possibility would be for a company sponsorship of some sort, but with the ailing economy who is willing to higher and sponsor someone who is illegal. So the only road to citizenship is to wait till our Congress changes some of the laws in place. This comes from a son of an immigrant who came here 40 years ago, who now is a professional and latino and looks to change the ignorance of biased Americans have toward all immigrants latino of not. Check your grammer and spelling before posting something f such great throught!!!

Future History, the Statue of Liberty doesn't include the phrase "Send me anyone who can sneak across your borders."

applying isn't as easy as going to get a drivers license. You go apply without valid papers you can be deported. Even if you have valid papers (a Visa of some sort) and you happen to fail the citizenship test, you are deported and prevented from applying again for a period in the neighborhood of 2-5 years. Many of these people have no family in Mexico that they no of and so they get sent to a country that is foreign to them.

darciesdaddy - I didn't say that it did. My point is that, based on the comments in this forum, we are teaching our kids racism, which is a deeper problem than illegal immigration. I'm all for securing our borders, but I suspect half the dumbasses in this forum that are picking on the subject of this article could not even begin to hold a candle to him in the areas of intelligence and humanity.

Eric, why don't you go sponsor the kid? Or better yet, let him join the military... thats really all it takes to become a citizen... and quit playing the race card, opposing illegal imigration doesn't make anyone a racist...

How egregious is the irony of somebody who spells badly chiding others for spelling badly? Eric, you fail English AND Latino.

First of all if you knew the immigration law, you would know that INS and congress have blocked certain laws that would allow this person to seek a path to citizenship. Without a family member like a mother or father to petition you there is no way to path for citizenship. A possibility would be for a company sponsorship of some sort, but with the ailing economy who is willing to higher and sponsor someone who is illegal. So the only road to citizenship is to wait till our Congress changes some of the laws in place. This comes from a son of an immigrant who came here 40 years ago, who now is a professional and latino and looks to change the ignorance of biased Americans have toward all immigrants latino of not. Check your grammer and spelling before posting something f such great throught!!!

@Eric

Why the last sentence? Quick check of your errors.

What do you mean by "no way to path for citizenship"? Do you mean who is willing to hire instead of "who is willing to higher?"

You should have left of "of" in the statement "change the ignorance of biased Americans have"

Also did you mean latino or not instead off "latino of not."

Grammar is spelled with an a not and e.

There is an o missing in "something f great throught"

Thought is spelled without an r.

I would check my grammar and spelling but it was too much fun checking yours. SEND THE ILLEGALS TO THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.

Most of you guys truly disgust me and I'm ashamed that you are actually Americans, from the way you talk, it just seems like the Taliban talking... "he's a criminal" Lordie, Lord... give the kid a break~! Because your child wasn't smart enough to get scholarships doesn't mean you should take it out on a kid who only knows America as his home... his parents (or Mexico) F-ed his life up, and he's paying for it. Dag nabit, this dude is the student body president and has scholarships; aren't these the sort of individuals we need in this country? No I forgot, we need the like of Sarah Palin, Bachmann and Christine O'Donnell.

God save your souls.... and enjoy all the HATE in your heart. I'm not saying to grant the dude citizenship, but dang, be a lil considerate or compassionate at this young fella's plight... what am I even talking about... you don't give a dung!~!!

THANK YOU! Its pathetic to see all these people who were lucky enough to be born here just abuse it, Go home and drink your Budweiser and keep telling everyone to get out. Its sad that some of you recognize that people are coming here for a better way of life but right afterward you say go back to the @!$%# hole you came from, how pathetic. Don't sit here and tell me how YOUR parents did all this legally blah blah blah. I have a AS/BS Degree in Computer Information Security Systems... ILLEGALS ARE NOT STEALING MY JOB(s). EDUCATE YOURSELF AND YOU WILL NOT FEEL THREATENED BY "THEM" ANYMORE

it's not our fault, we didn't know, I just want a better life, I am sick to death of the excuses for breaking our immigration laws, go to your own country and apply, IT"S NOT UP TO THEM IF THEY CAN COME HERE, WE DECIDE WHO GETS TO COME HERE, what is so hard to understand about that, you touchy feely people out there you pay for them , I have given more than they ever will , and yet still they get more. enough already ship his illegal azz back to where he came from.

It seems everyone in the trailor park is fired up today. I wouldn't waste my time with them.Just take in how sad your country has become.

So the kid who came here at 3. Lived his whole life in America. Has all friends that are American. Went to American schools. Is payig tuiction just the in state not out of state rate, and is well liked enough to become student president of the US should be kicked out and sent back to a country he doesn't know cause he left when he was 3? I am all for immigration reform. And their are problems for sure. But imagine any of you who are born and raised America being sent out of the country and to Mexico and told to stay their cause of something there parents did wrong. The family shouldn't even have been able to enrol him in school when he was 5 or 6 when they were illegal. But they did and now hes lived his whole life here. And is educating himself as an American. So he should pay by getting kicked out of his only known home?

@Taken, you are right about how sad it has become. It is sad that there are so many liberal freaks out there who think there is a never ending supply of money and that we should pay for everyone who puts a hand out. Ok so we solve it this way. Pedro stays but his parents are shipped back with a do not return order, and Pedro becomes a citizen within six months or he gets shipped back to. He also has to in that time keep his address and prints on file with the local probation office, and be subject to random searches to verify his address. If he refuses he goes back, or disappears as they tend to do. When he is found he is shipped back without questions. Quick question, what good is a college education to a kid who has no social and shouldn't be working anyway? He cant get a job without a social in whatever he is studying for, so what good is that education? Oh yea, so he can take it back to Mexico and live there after we stupid Americans set him up just right!

Many people in this situation would get in line, if there was such a line. Current outdated immigration laws preclude students brought here illegally by their parents from becoming a lawful permanent resident (LPR) of the U.S. (they don't have a USC relative or LPR relative to sponsor them). You have to acquire LPR status first BEFORE you can petition to become a citizen. If people understood how the immigration laws worked, instead of labelling people as law breakers or criminals, you would understand how hard it is to "become legal." The laws are outdated and need to be changed. Current business as usual only hurts families. These people have paid taxes, if they work under the table, and never will see a social security check unless they are permitted to become legal and refile tax returns. What happens to these billions of dollars that ignorant people claim "these people" take from law-abiding americans? It sits in a social security suspense account. Many pay into the system for years, and will never see a dime of it. People should really educate themselves about the immigration laws before they purport to accuse the undocumented of being lazy and simply refusing to follow the rules. Many individuals would elect to become legal if they had a legal pathway to do so. Such doors are currently closed to them. They are penalized for 10 years before ANY visa will be issued to them under current laws. How is that for fairness?

Ericadm, if you are illegal and have lived in the U.S for only 4 years, you can NOT become a legal citizen yet. I think you have to live here for 9 years... but I know its not 4. Thats why he has not tried to become a citizen.

He is breaking the law

What law? That over a decade ago he crossed the border without a visa? That's not a criminal offense, it's a civil violation? It was a long time ago, and not something that he knowingly did, being three years old at the time.

WE DECIDE WHO GETS TO COME HERE

No, Congress does, but that's a mistake. Our Founding Fathers were much wiser; they allowed people to decide for themselves. They wanted a Free nation of Free men and women, not a centrally-planned country based on social engineering. Hitler tried that other way, and so did Stalin. It doesn't work very well, and wouldn't be worth it even if it did.

To some of the other postings, here, marrying a US citizen would not give him a pathway to citizenship. He would have to leave his homeland first, and even then, ant admission that he crossed the border without inspection would disqualify him. Nor would serving in the military if he came here without a visa. The DREAM Act would change that. The DREAM Act would give him a chance.

Maybe this is why California universities are so broke.

Funny, that some people think allowing this boy to attend college after earning a scholarship and getting elected to student body president is somehow unfair to other Americans. What's wrong with the merit system?

The family shouldn't even have been able to enrol him in school (when he was five or six)

Having spent some years in a country where the majority of people were illiterate, I have to say that anyone who opposes the American ideal of universal public education should reconsider their position.

@ ericadm- there is no where for him to apply for citizenship. Otherwise I am sure he would have done it. People are against immigration but unless you are native american at some point your family immigrated to the US! People here are often busy wondering why others don't just "apply" to become legal. It is not like that if it was we would not have this problem.

For those of you whom is placing the blem on this kid, and stating he should have apply for citizenship, I have a challenge for you.

I dear you to renounce your US citizenship and residency. Without asking your parents or relative to sponsor you, go through the immigration process. Then come back to share how it goes.

He would need status as a permanent resident to be able to apply for citizenship.

DaleP-1653887 to burst your unrealistic bubble, Parents are pecuniary liable for their Children's activities until they are of age.

And since this guy knew in High School that he was an Illegal Alien, so after High School graduation he is liable for his ILLEGAL Actions.

commonsense...., failure at commonsense.

As the number of scholarships decrease the more that are given. Meaning one less scholarship for a deserving US Citizen.

And on most scholarships the question is asked about US Citizenship Status. Meaning he lied.

Like mentioned before if he ever held a job. He also committed Felony Tax Evasion and or Identity Theft.

As a father of two kids in college, I can say that if you are sending your kids to private colleges, and not getting financial aid, you must have some serious income or serious assets. If your sending them to public colleges in state, you're getting in-state tuition breaks. If you have three kids in public colleges out of state, maybe you should talk to them about comming home...

If your kids didn't get scholarships, it sure as hell wasn't primarily due to illegal immigrants. Sounds like your kids didn't do well enough throughout school and now you are paying for it, or they didn't look hard enough for scholarships, or you are in a higher tax bracket.

He is a bright individual who is being made to pay for his parents crime. As long as he is being a productive member of society, he should be allowed to stay. I am speaking exclusively about this case.

JCinTxMx,

"If your kids didn't get scholarships, it sure as hell wasn't primarily due to illegal immigrants. Sounds like your kids didn't do well enough throughout school and now you are paying for it, or they didn't look hard enough for scholarships, or you are in a higher tax bracket."

But what about the ones that just missed a scholarship because of the illegal ahead of them? Another example of the dumbing down of America. People now rationalize what is legal and illegal instead of following the rule of law. More than likely they do this because it is too much of an emotional burden to do what is right instead of what feels good to them. Another societal offshoot of "if it feels good do it" hippie mentality.

I take it back. I know my situation, and I don't know yours. Good luck educating your kids and I hope they apprecate it.

In-state students receive tuition breaks on the premise that themselves and their parents have been paying taxes to that state. Illegal immigrants do not pay taxes, and therefore should not get tuition breaks. You'd be putting up a huge fuss it they were dipping into social security or medicare, wouldn't you?

Svenolafson - plenty of scholarships go unclaimed each year. If the person behind an illegal missed out on a scholarship, there are likely thousands more they are eligible for that will go unclaimed.

Also, this student is clearly in the upper echelon of scholarship applicants.

Of course, they pay taxes. Every time they buy something, there is a sales tax. Every rent check they pay, in part is to pay real estate taxes. Every paycheck they get is reduced by withheld taxes, which taxes if overpaid are never refunded. Undocumented persons pay more taxes per income bracket than others who can reclaim overpayments.

Anon Monster!

"Also, this student is clearly in the upper echelon of scholarship applicants."

So? What's your point?

Sven,

The point is likely that he is on his way to being your boss.

Many of you are not thinking clearly... nor do you want to. Your feelings about illegal immigrants rule your judgement and blind you to the basic facts.

Ramirez, who came to the United States at age 3, told the Los Angeles Times that he didn't know he was not a citizen until he was a senior in high school.

When he was elected as student body president last June, he told the administration he would serve without pay — a $9,000 stipend — because he could not lie on employment papers, the Times reported.

Sins of the father will not pass onto the son. His parents might be at fault, but he will not suffer for it.

And the fact that he is SERVING WITHOUT PAY... you want to deport him or punish him for not being a citizen?

He is more worthy of being a US Citizen than many of our own natural born! He is obviously a person WE WANT here.

Isn't that nice 11aa. What about those of us who are unmarried, childless and do no own a house, guess we get to pay for everyone else.

Sven - my point is that he would be more deserving of scholarships than the vast majority of candidates. There are likely few runners up for the scholarship(s) he obtained, and like I said, they are free to apply for the myriad of scholarships that go unclaimed every year.

Natasha - I don't really see your point. If you have no property, you're paying mostly sales/payroll taxes. Sales taxes might go toward education, but your payroll taxes don't really apply to state funding. You're hardly contributing (if at all) to the benefits of illegals, if that's what you're so worried about.

@MAStinks--Sounds like your kids should have worked a little harder to get scholarships. Denying this kid scholarships (and the ability to pay his own way) will not make your kids any more qualified to go to college. You make it sound like it's either a mark of honor or a huge burden that your kids didn't qualify for any scholarships...

I worked my butt off in high school to get scholarships to pay for my schooling because I knew I'd have little/no help from my parents. My loans were under $5k total. Scholarships are readily available for those that qualify. Yes, some of them have stipulations that you must belong to a minority group or an athletic club. But there are lots of private scholarships out there to help underprivileged kids, smart kids, creative kids, hard-working kids, etc. If your kids didn't get any, then maybe you should have considered whether they were ready for college in the first place. Put the responsibility on your kids to cover the costs of their schooling.

Most of you guys truly disgust me and I'm ashamed that you are actually Americans, from the way you talk, it just seems like the Taliban talking... "he's a criminal" Lordie, Lord... give the kid a break~! Because your child wasn't smart enough to get scholarships doesn't mean you should take it out on a kid who only knows America as his home... his parents (or Mexico) F-ed his life up, and he's paying for it. Dag nabit, this dude is the student body president and has scholarships; aren't these the sort of individuals we need in this country? No I forgot, we need the like of Sarah Palin, Bachmann and Christine O'Donnell.

God save your souls.... and enjoy all the HATE in your heart. I'm not saying to grant the dude citizenship, but dang, be a lil considerate or compassionate at this young fella's plight... what am I even talking about... you don't give a dung!~!!

fiscalconservative said-

And by clearing the way for people like him and giving him a path to citizenship, all you are doing is encouraging more of the same. That is exactly what has happened everytime we granted amnesty in the past.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would think that a college grad who was voted president of his class is EXACTLY the kind of person we would want "more of the same" of. No?

It's ironic really. While every year the Fed "legally" immigrates 1000s of people with skills, especially in the tech areas, which definately takes good jobs away from natural born Americans, no one seems to care much about that. Instead everyone wants to bully the poor Mexican laborers who sneak across a hundred miles of desert to do the crap jobs that no American citizen wants to do, for a crap wage that no American citizen would ever accept.

Can someone tell me why?

Please tell me why Mr. Ramirez is more worthy of being a citizen, than a natural born American who is a resident of the state of Ca. He is not stupid, he has been well educated at the expense of the tax payers of that state. Now as a senior in high school he found out he was not a citizen he made no effort to rectify the problem which I'm sure his school counselors could have made easy just as they did helping get scholarships. I'm glad he has chosen not to lie about empolyment on those papers.

I am disgusted with people who claim THEIR taxes are paying for someone elses education. If he is living somewhere with his parents or on his own, he is paying rent and if he is paying rent, he is paying property taxes (assuming the landlord is not cheating). Once I saw a cartoon where a rich guy was trying to get into heaven and told how he once gave a beggar a dime and maybe a couple of other times he was "generous". St. Peter said, "give him back his dime and tell him to go to Hell!" In the case of most of these commenters who worry about how they are paying for this man's education, maybe we should return the percent of their tax dollars going to this man's education and tell them to go to Hell. I doubt if they would get a penny.

Dred44, just FYI... there's no way he can become a legal citizen under current laws... so his counselors wouldn't know... imagine, the guy turned down scholarship because he's trying his best to straddle the law as best as he can - not to make a bad situation even worse. If it was me, I would have taken the scholarship money - my logic: I worked hard for it, and even if I was illegal, I'll feel like I deserved it :-p

And Yes, even if he did get married to an American, he still can't get ciizenship because he came into the country illegally. He would have to go out and back into the country to be able to do this.

HE is a criminal

Come off it. He wasn't accepted into college and elected student president for being a criminal. Since when is doing well in school a crime? He sounds like a good kid, and a more valuable citizen than some of the people posting here who seem to have abandoned the principles this nation was founded on.

WTF don't you get? HE IS A CRIMINAL in every sense of the word!

Of course he wasn't accepted to college or nominated Student Body Pres for being a criminal! Probably because he excelled in school.

Nontheless, he excelled while living as a criminal! HE IS A CRIMINAL, commonsense, and there is no debate on that. Zero.

By the way, as far as your ridiculous statement, in which you said he is probably a more valuable citizen than some of those commenting here; that is simply asinine.

Not really, SmallGov. Statistically speaking, he's likely to earn more than the average citizen due to his post-secondary education. He would then contribute more in taxes to society than some of us here. By that metric, he may well be more valuable than some posters here.

Or perhaps we're using some other metric. Even then, this is the internet, where surely we can find someone of lesser value in any category!

The other day I witnessed a 3 year old try and steal candy at a store. We should lock up that damn criminal too!! Maybe some hard time will change him. You can't let these kids get away with this stuff ... they know what they are doing.

No one is taking a scholarship away from legal students there are tons and tons of scholarships if your kids don't have one they are not as bright or they are not trying to find scholarships. There are scholarships designed for different things

Oh but yes, really Anon.

It doesn't matter what kind of education he has, he absolutely will not be contributing more than the average American in taxes if he is not a citizen.

Unless he intends to take his Bachelor's and get a job that pays under the table, he will. Payroll taxes and sales taxes are automatically calculated and taken, and property taxes are automatically calculated (and taken out of most loan payments automatically).

An education he damn well didn't deserve. I live in California, I find it difficult to believe this guy was clueless about his citizenship. Did he or his parents ever get a drivers license? Did he have to get his social security card to find a job while he was in school? Didn't He and/or his parents ever have to show some form of proof of identity, receiving a speeding 'ticket' for example? Seriously, who does he think he's fooling?

I think he's a self entitled lair, flat out and should be deported along with the rest of his family. I don't care what age he came here, if he's in this country illegally he needs to go! Forcible, if necessary.

O.K. I'm really about done here, Anon. I don't know why I am wasting my time with this, but here goes:

If he were to take a legal job that payed under the table, it would more than likely not pay well.

He may pay some tiny amount of sales tax, but he would most likely not earn enough to make mortgage payments with a job that pays under the table - and furthermore, even if he did, he WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO VERIFY HIS INCOME, which, you may not know, is a very important part of becoming pre qualified for a mortgage.

Wrong again.

I so very much appreciate you wasting your time with me. This is the part of the internet argument where I insert a dismissive comment intended to undermine your argument, right?

Seriously though, I think you misunderstood me. My point was that he wouldn't be taking a job under the table, as most jobs requiring a degree would be reputable, well-paying positions. In such a position, payroll taxes would be withheld, income would be verifiable, and he would be making enough to purchase goods and services.

he absolutely will not be contributing more than the average American in taxes if he is not a citizen

If you changed that to "he absolutely will not be able to contribute as much to American society he is capable of if we deny him citizenship" I would agree.

But even as you write it, why do you revel in not wanting him to contribute more in taxes? Don't you WANT him to contribute taxes? I sure do. We need more people willing to shoulder their fair share of the burden.

@ Not the Sharpest

Actually, yes, on the whole illegals ARE taking scholarships away from legal students. There ARE tons of scholarships, however the vast majority of them are targeted at minorities. As a student fully involved in the scholarship search and college admissions process myself, it never ceases to amaze me just how biased colleges are towards minority students. I'm not saying minorities should not go to college, but there is a difference between equal opportunity and preferential treatment. About 2/3 of the scholarships made available at our school are minority-only and of those, most are for Hispanic students. As a white female, I have not yet seen a single scholarship I am eligible for. Colleges are desperate for minorities in order to increase their diversity ratings (after all, we can't have a white majority at our school because that would be racist) and on college applications, there is one space to choose from a list of ethnicities, and a separate, special space asking if you are Hispanic. Hispanic students practically get spoon-fed on their way to college. There are dozens of special workshops and programs, college counselors who will work exclusively with them, scholarships everywhere and a near-guaranteed admissions decision if their grades are decent. Many of them are even invited to certain scholarships without having to do anything other than be Hispanic. Colleges will look at two applications: one from a high-performing white student, and one from a comparable, but slightly lower-performing hispanic student. Guess which one they will accept? Here's a hint: it's not the white student. All of this makes it hard enough for white students to stand out, but when the Hispanic students are illegal? THAT'S when it turns completely unfair. Whether you like it or not, people of Caucasian descent are still a majority in the US, and yet opportunities available to that majority are rapidly disappearing. Illegal students have the advantage of race, and by using it, they take opportunities away not just from natural-born white students like me, but other natural-born minority students. Even if they have grown up here, illegals should not even be allowed admission into college without at least applying for a student visa, like all other international students are required to do. They don't even have to be citizens, just LEGAL permanent residents. Until such legislation appears dictating these conditions, I will continue to advocate for the exclusion of illegal immigrants from our higher education system. If they continue to receive handouts like this student, the problem will only increase.

excellent post, i vote you up

JCinTxMx - If your kids didn't get scholarships, it sure as hell wasn't primarily due to illegal immigrants.

Svenolafson - But what about the ones that just missed a scholarship because of the illegal ahead of them?

Svenolafson is exactly correct.

What do you think JCinTxMx there is an unlimited number of Scholarships (Money). That is why the US is in the current screwed up Economic Situation.

You and the other "feel goods" want to keep giving, more will come like they have in the past. So how about YOU pay for YOUR "feel good" baloney by liquidating everything you own, your family owns, your relatives own, your kids in their future own and give it all to the Illegal Aliens. Thought not, until it directly affects you, you will continue like all the other "feel goods" to spout feces out of all orifices.

Anon: assuming he would qualify for citizenship - which he would not, especially given his criminal record.

Commonsense: I am against anyone paying more in taxes. I am against big government, and the taxes needed to run big government, and particularly against taxes needed to run social programs!

Now, if he was going to contribute to the economy through the private sector, and yes, he appeared to be capable, he should have tried to go about it the legal way.

If only we could deport the worthless (legal or illegal) and keep the intelligent and ambitious, like this young man. I'm for tracking down idiots who post senseless BS online and deporting them. www.newsprism.com

How rude. He was here since the age of 3, smart, intellectual, attends a Uni and was ASB president. At LEAST he is in school making something of himself. He had no say in the matter at that young age and is suffering through his parents. THAT is unfair right there, finding out at the end of high school about his true citizenship was probably hard and at that point was confused.

Kuromi,

"He had no say in the matter at that young age and is suffering through his parents. THAT is unfair right there, finding out at the end of high school about his true citizenship was probably hard and at that point was confused."

Life's not fair. He should probably take this up with his illegal parent's. Do you understand the difference between right and wrong, legal and illegal? If you do then you are just rationalizing. I would say you don't have the emotional fortitude to deal with this issue and it's easier on your psyche to give in to your base emotions than to critically think about and judge the issue.

"Life's not fair" is for getting picked last in kickball or dropping your ice cream cone. It's not for being carried into a neighboring country illegally and not finding out until you reach the age of consent. Rationalizing is what people do; you're doing it when you argue to deport a productive member of society because "life's not fair." Perhaps the law is unfair.

Anon Moseter!

"Rationalizing is what people do; you're doing it when you argue to deport a productive member of society because "life's not fair." Perhaps the law is unfair."

Perhaps you should change the law. You're cute. You go girl!

The sooner he goes the better!

Svenolafson;

This is an individual we will keep. He is more than worthy of being in this society, and he is someone WE WANT to be counted as one of us.

I will never approve deportation just because someone doesn't have proper paperwork. So long as there is 1 good person among them, I will never allow it.

I will approve it when we can keep those that benefit us, and remove those that don't. This would include current Americans who are unproductive and unwilling to help out our society in some fashion.

So, I guess if Berie Madoff's kids didn't know that his fortune was gained illegally, they should be able to inherit his ill-gotten gains? Why punish them for the sins of their father?

That's kind of what people are hoping for with the DREAM act, Svenolafson.

I do appreciate you dismissing a rational argument as "cute," though.

darcie - that's not really how civil law handles criminal reparations. Assuming the statute of limitations is still in effect, any gifts/inheritance given is reclaimed for plaintiffs' benefit. Finding all of the inheritance can prove difficult, but they don't just keep it all.

liquid wolf- so you would keep 12000000 illegal criminals in this country just because 1 of them MIGHT be a good one, what about all the illegal gang members or the illegal welfare moms, are you prepared to tell that firefighters widow back east that the illegal alien who killed her husband and has been living here illegaly for 10 yrs and still can't speak english , that as long as thiers one good one we need to let the illegal who ran over your husband to stay. why don't you take care of them , I am tired of it.

BUSHWACKER01;

As I said, I would deport thousands of illegal criminals if we can also remove the thousands of legal ones with the same law.

But...

People who work for this country, who help make it a better place.... This kid... I will not allow a flood that would sweep them away just because those with papers believe they have an "easy solution" to our problems.

BUSHWACKER! said:

what about all the illegal gang members or the illegal welfare moms, are you prepared to tell that firefighters widow back east that the illegal alien who killed her husband and has been living here illegaly for 10 yrs and still can't speak english ,

Your anecdote puts you on factually shakey ground Bushwacker. Statistically Mexican immigrants are less likely to break the law (not counting their illegal entry) than American citizens are (only about 20% as likely). The overwhelming majority come here to work, have strong family ties, and strong religious convictions. Further, their fear of being found out and deported is incentive for them to mind their behavior in order to stay under the radar.

For the most part, they are moral people, who come here seeking the same thing you and I do, a safer and better life.

holly cow....what a deep and intelligent comment....

liquid Wolf who are you to allow, or not allow anything. We are a nation of laws irregardlessof what you think, get a grip poor fool life's way to short for delusions of grandeur.

BUSHWACKER!

When you say "your sick of them" What does that even mean? Do they poop in your yard like your neighbors dog? They are ALREADY HERE! We as a country are FUNCTIONING WITH THEM HERE RIGHT NOW AS I TYPE THIS!

What about the rest of his body?

Dred44;

With all due respect, my words are exactly as I mean them. Eventually things will reach a boiling point and we will need to pick sides.

It is unlikely any law will be passed soon that will fix this issue, but should one be passed that goes against what I believe is right I will do what it takes to protect those I believe worth it.

Violence, of course, is a last plan... and one I abhor... but it is still a plan. All Americans should realize that they, or their children, will inevitably need to fight and bleed for what they believe to be right.

I will not allow a law to be passed that removes good people from our society.

mandt- that firefighter would still be alive today if the illegal was never here, not to speak of all the rest of the legal US citizens who have died today because of some illegal alien that was never supposed to be here in the first place, yes US citizens do kill each other , and those people go to jail, the illegals walk , while they are waiting deportation hearing , and yes I'm sick of them being here, Steve -you take them home with you, you want them here you pay for them. me and most of the rest of the US have had enough.

BUshwacker I agree! My cousins boyfriend is an illegal, they have two kids. She is a US citizen. Because he cant be located on record she tells them she has no idea where he is in order to collect fullfledged welfare, health insurance, food, housing, fuel assistance and day care. They have projection screen tv's. A wII system, PS3, a surround sound stereo system, and he usually has three grand in his pocket at any given time. He just bought a five hundred dollar solid gold necklace with a pendant, a 300 hundred dollar touch phone for each of them, Just mailed a brand new eight hundred dollar laptop to his sister, and he sends back to Honduras 300 a week. They do not eat at home for the most part, and the food money she gets is spent on Goya crap for him! He has said routinely he has no interest in citizenship because it wont benefit him. He sees how hard the rest of the family in the house struggles because they are getting taxed to death on their paychecks. He said he likes the annonymity of being an illegal, as do his brother and cousin who are here, and as will the three sisters (two of which are pregnant) and mother who he has paid to get across the border next month. Just in time for Christmas awww! Guess what he was arrested for a few weeks ago? Swining a machette at two of my cousins in the house! Guess what happened to him for it? Nothing! And they even used his fake license and birth certificate which they knew was fake as a name on the court paperwork! The cop who arrived as he did this said he was going to kill someone, and the judge just said "Thats the way they settle disputes there he doesnt understand!" He got two months probation, kept his fake license and papers and was told just be a good boy and we will forget all about it! So lets back track...two kids paid for in full without his having to support him check! Comitting a major crime and finding a liberal bleeding heart judge to make it all go away check! Shipping more of his family in since the deal here is to good to refuse! Check! Americans that think these people are here to sing kumbya and hold hands are stupid. The judge said "This is the way they settle disputes over there" Hopefully its one of these freaks whose kid will get butchered by one, maybe then they will wake up! Of course me, i'll just ask the widow in AZ whose rancher husband was gutted by three illegals stealing veggies from his farm, and then she herself was run over by an illegal driver a few months later....Good luck America, we are gonna need it!

Bushwanker,

You seem to have a very peculiar senseof justice. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that your anecdote is based in fact, the perpetrator of the crime is the one, and the only one, who should be held accountable for his actions. To punish millions of others is not justice. Or do you want to be punished for the crimes of Timothy McVeigh, a US citizen who killed hundreds?

liquid Wolf don't let your mouth overloard you ass boy, cause you are just a pimple on a dogs ass. you say where, and I'll dam well bring it sonny or is that sunny.

Monkey bars, 3:00 PM. Be there.

Deport his ass!!!

Spoken like a true ignorant American high school drop out.

Kuromi,

At who's expense. That's right all US Taxpayers.

You and the other "feel goods" want to keep giving, more Illegal Aliens will come like they have in the past. So how about YOU pay for YOUR "feel good" baloney by liquidating everything you own, your family owns, your relatives own, your kids in their future own and give it all to the Illegal Aliens. Thought not, until it directly affects you, you will continue like all the other "feel goods" to spout feces out of all orifices.

Yes, we can figure it out, but I'm the only one that cares.

And the courts continue to support this sort of fraud. No wonder we are broke!

We're broke because of foolish right wing fiscal policy and borrowing from China. We're broke because we're in two unnecessary wars. We're not broke because some illegal immigrants are going to state colleges. Use your head.

Those are national budget problems, Dave. And to be more precise, we're borrowing from ourselves - China may be the largest foreign holder of U.S. debt, but they carry less than 9% of it. The American people hold about 70% of it. (not that I disagree on the two unfunded wars, Medicare part D, the Bush tax cuts, etc).

California is in fiscal trouble because of a bloated pension system, poor allocation of educational funds, and a prop system that makes raising funds nearly impossible. Sending productive, though illegal, members of society to college is not bankrupting us.

A lot of the problem is you don't see "well to do people" or educated people" trying to get into this country illegally. All you get in illegally is people that don't have educations, and criminals. Now what do you think they want in the United States of America. I can tell you this, as I know it for sure. They take a low paying job, but they work hard and get paid. The majority of the them SEND our American money, back to Mexico to help their parents or other members of their family. Now if anyone understands the economy, you will understand that WE are the economy. By saying that, the money we make, we spend in America and keep the economy going. When and illegal alien can come into America and earn money, and sends it out of America, the economy suffers. Pile the Government spending and the tax hikes they put through to pay for it, BINGO, you have the problems we have in the economy today.

You really want to pin America's economic situation on the meager amounts illegals send back home? What about the housing crash, or the credit-fueled spending spree the American citizen has been on for the past decade, or the lack of wage-growth over the past 30 years?

The country hasn't experienced tax hikes in well over a decade. The only current tax hikes on the table are those in the HCR bill, most of which don't go in to effect for a few years.

Knowing how California feels about the illegals the college will probably give him a FULL scholarship now since he was so "brave" admitting that he is cheating the system and sponging off of taxpaying American citizens and has been for 18 years. He will be rewarded for it.

@ skipster--OUR American money? You just said that the illegal immigrants earned it, why shouldn't they spend it where they wish? That is the crux of the problem. You see, they wouldn't be sending "our" American money out of the country if there weren't crooks hiring them at slave wages to begin with. Blame the people that are unwilling to pay fair wages and are willing to break the law in order to make money. Our economy suffers because we keep trusting the foxes in the henhouse (Wall Street, bankers, and Congressmen) to do the right thing.

Okay. Let's look at the economics on a micro level. What does the average illegal earn in a week? $250 tops I'd wager. So what does he spend it on? I'd estimate about $150 a week goes to food, another $50 per week for room and board, another $10-$25 on a few beers and maybe a movie, and the rest he sends home to his wife in Mexico. So out of the $1000 or so a month he makes, about $900 (90%) goes back into the local economy. $100 give or take goes out of the country.

Meanwhile, my wealthy, fat Republican "friend" who makes about $250,000 a year, pays most of that into his house mortgage, utilities, imported wines and his three foreign cars, a Nissan SUV, an Accura, and a spankin new $75K Mercedes. Of that $75K, I'd estimate that $50K went back to Deutschland. In one purchase my friend sent more money out of the country than the Mexican guy will send in 40 or more years. SOme of it he invests, and loses in the market, and perhaps about $2000 a month goes towards staples. So he probably puts about $12,000 back inot the local economy each year. Let's be generous and say $20,000.

Now, if you looked at 250 illegals making an average of about $1000 per month ($250,000 per year total) and considered that 90% of that was being spent locally, that's $225,000 being pumped back into the local U.S. economy.

Oh yeah, and ya know what my friend does for a living? He's a Corporate efficiency consultant. He fires people.

mandt- what country are you living in, the average illegal makes $10.00 an hr if you pick them up at home depot, they make more money than a whole lot of legal citizens, go to home depot and try to hire an illegal for $250.00 a week , they will laugh at you.

Construction work is one of the more lucrative professions for illegals, that's true. I happen to live in Fresno, where much of the minority population engages in farm work. The pay is significantly smaller for illegals in that industry and many others.

The majority of the them SEND our American money, back to Mexico

Wow. It used to be that if you had a job, the money you earned was yours and you could do with it as you pleased. Now we have people like skipster, who claims it really all belongs to him, even though he (or she) has done nothing to earn it. Does that suggest a problem with modern attitudes?

Those who have truly looked at the economics have concluded that undocumented Americans benefit the economy and generate jobs for US citizens (by EXPANDING the economy) and they pay more in taxes than they receive in government services.

mandt is on target. Our trade deficit results from us buying more foreign products (big ticket items from Japan and Germany and small ticket items from China) than we export. Solve that problem, and you fix the economy. Scapegoating people who work hard (or the people who hire them) is just plain wrong.

The problem is the law in question. California supreme court is limited to the language of the law which requires no LEGAL residency status to qualify for the Grant money. Ok, then, the best way to solve the issue is first to repeal the law and second, to mandate public funds/programs can be only used for the benefit of lawful citizens/immigrants on this land.

Dave-2085674 - We're broke because of foolish right wing fiscal policy and borrowing from China. We're broke because we're in two unnecessary wars. We're not broke because some illegal immigrants are going to state colleges. Use your head.

Evidently you do not use your's. except as a hat rack.

Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State spends over $10 Billion USDs per year on Illegal Aliens of the yearly budget of $85 Billion USDs.

California benefits more than any State from the Wars. All the US Military Installations, and Defense Contractors. If you say no then demand that all US Military Installations at California close to your Congressional Representatives and see what they say to you. By the way how is that closed under President Clinton Fort Ord working out for you (State Income and jobs from the US Military versus the nothing now).

36 years of Nancy Pelosi and you still cannot figure out that you do not keep repeating the same mistakes and expect different results.

We're not broke because some illegal immigrants are going to state colleges.

No but that plus all the other freebies the Illegal Aliens (not immigrants, as they have NO intention of ever becoming US Citizens, due to high cost of living) are getting has caused California to go bankrupt. Ask yourself what can you do with the $10 Billion USDs that the Illegal Aliens get at California each year.

LOL, "I am an Illegal immigrant" is now a "fashion" statement in California, in particular", no longer a legal issue. This country can't feed her "own" citizens and yet, cares more about illegals' "rights". This is what make this country broke. California is the "golden" state no more.

@dave................I was referring to California, not you, you moron. Every time I see one of your posts, I cringe. Like the girl might have done it in that triple murder in Ohio. You are really confused. What you been drinking in your tea? Never mind. I don't want to know.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Obviously, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

And the rest of his family!

One problem I have is when my wife and I go into Dunkin Donuts, late at night. We can't get a table because all the illegal aliens and their children are sitting there just talking. Now anyone that has any sense knows keeping a 2 year or 4 year old out at 11 p.m. or midnight isn't what America is made up of. I will never understand why DD doesn't ask them to leave when paying customers come in, I see people roll their eyes when they ask for a place to sit down. It is getting out of hand. No just in DD, but in America

a crime has been committed

There's something seriously wrong with thinking that applying oneself and getting an education is a crime. How is that 'patriotic'?

commonsense - I would bet that, by and large, the people screaming "deport him" and getting 25 "up" arrows are marginally making a living. When I first started college, while working as a police officer, I was discouraged at every turn by the older officers that were lazy and fearful of losing their jobs, or getting passed by for promotion. As it turned out, they were correct; I shot up through the ranks and went to law school. I now make more in a month than my old sergeant does in a year. No elitism as I came up through the ranks, paid my own way, and enjoy the fruits of my work and education. One can blame illegals, blacks, liberals, Obama, Congress and everyone that has done well, but in the final analysis, we control our own destiny.

More directly to the point of the article, Mexico is as foreign to this young man as it is to most posting here. Damned if they work hard and get educated, and damned if they are criminals. And, my grandmother was an illegal immigrant from Ireland. Virtually all her grandchildren are doctors, lawyers, and other professsionals.

He did not get a student visa because he COULDN'T get a student visa. That option is only for overseas students before they come to the US. Basically he is trapped here without any legal way out. How would you like to find out at 16 or 17 years old you had to go back to a country you've never known, leave your family and friends, and maybe not even speak the language? Since when do we punish kids for the crimes of their parents?

So here's an interesting question for you to ponder. What is a greater crime. Illegal immigration or rape? I'm willing to bet most people say it's rape. Why then is the statue of limitation on rape 5 to 10 years in most states but you don't have one for illegal immigration as a child.

Continuing this line of reasoning. Which is worse, murder or illegal immigration. If a child under the age of 10 murders someone, they usually aren't charged as an adult. So, why do we charge this kid who came here as a 3 year old as an adult?

I always find it funny how everyone on these forums has a 1-2 sentence answer for the initial question but no other form of reasoning to back it up...

I'm starting to think it would be a better idea to have a reasoning skills test and deport anyone that fails it. Start importing immigrants with better reasoning skills and we can fix our world rank in math and science as well.

Marsy, I will say this again. Too bad. His parents should have thought of that before they broke our laws, came here illegally, and put their children into legal limbo. Too bad.

Making exceptions for people like him only encourages more of the same behavior. And many of us out here have had quite enough of the shenanigans.

Marsy - Since they become adults and still do nothing about the crime they are now, themselves, committing.

I don't think we can issue reasoning tests to some people, the idea of it is kind of an oxymoron.

As a college student he is more than likely 19 or 20 instead of the 16-17 you quote. As a 19 year old I was drafted and sent to a country I had never known and forced to stay there against my will. Getting shot at daily was an extra he doesn't have to put up with!

As far as I have observed, most illegal Mexican immigrants have come to this country to make a better living for themselves and their families. They have bought into the American dream, as opposed to some legal immigrants, who despise this country and its ideals. I would vote to let every illegal alien who has broken no law other than immigration remain here and become citizens.

Latono,

"As far as I have observed, most illegal Mexican immigrants have come to this country to make a better living for themselves and their families. They have bought into the American dream, as opposed to some legal immigrants, who despise this country and its ideals."

Pretty sure you're not observing very many illegals. They do come here to make a better life for themselves and their families but not here in the US. They send all their money back home. They don't assimilate into society and keep to themselves. I've got some legal immigrant friends that received their US citizenship recently that would love to have a word with you outside.

wesley I'd try to put it in a way that you might understand but I'd have a better chance explaining it to my friends 4 year old....

But I'm stubborn so I'll try again...

We have statutes of limitations for far worse crimes then illegal immigration. If you would like to read about a few wikipedia can help you with that. Why are we willing to accept citizens back into society after they've done something worse then illegal immigration or not even punish them at all if it's been long enough but you'd be willing to go after the person many many years later so long as their crime was coming here illegally as a child. Note: We don't often charge children as adults in worse crimes.

The problem with people like you is that you're basically a one sentence thought. You're not thinking of either the repercussions of actually doing your statement nor are you actually analyzing the problem at hand. Everything to you is either one thing or the other with nothing in between. That's not how the world actually functions and talking like that makes you look like someone that can't analyze a problem or situation.

If our law enforcement would do their job and deport illegals arrested for felonious behavior, instead of letting them out on bail so they can skip to another part of the country and do it again, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Military service should be a path to citizenship.Those who put their lives on the line for this country earn their place here.Make it a provision of the Dream Act that the college students who want citizenship enter the military after they graduate and I will welcome this kid.

In the meantime send his parents back,he can apply to get them into the country legally after he returns from three tours in Afghanistan.

Doggysaywhat––While I see your point about the statute of limitations, I feel I should point out that illegal residence in the country is an ongoing crime. The statute of limitations on a crime does not begin to run until after the crime is completed which means that even if there were a statute of limitations, it could not commence to run until the young man either left the country or obtained legal residency. Think of it like kidnapping. I don't know the particular statute of limitation on kidnapping, but let's say for the purposes of this example it is 10 years. That does not mean that you can kidnap a person, keep him for 10 years and one day, and you are in the clear. The applicable time period does not begin to run until the victim is released unharmed.

Furthermore, the more severe the crime, the more likely a minor is to be charged as an adult, although there is a presumption really young children (I think the age is 5, or around there) are incapable of forming criminal intent, and therefore legally incapable of committing any crime at all. However, if we are talking teenagers, you are more likely to be charged as an adult for first degree murder than for shoplifting. Also, in many places, minimum sentences do not apply to juveniles, so often children charged and tried as such for minor crimes receive harsher penalties than they would had they been tried as adults.

What about all those Americans who choose to not serve in these wars? Should they be sent somewhere else? I don't think you'd stand for that.

Concerning this young man, I think he should have applied for citizenship once he realized he wasn't a citizen. His parents actions make it harder for other immigrants, those who come here legally, to get in. My husband, a UK citizen and software architect for Microsoft, has been waiting for months to attain his visa number and green card (resident alien) status. The system sucks for sure, but because of the actions of illegals it's even harder.

I don't think this kid should be deported but I do think he needs to apply to be a citizen.

His parents however, send them home.

doggy- I know the repurcussions of that act of deportation, cleaner streets, no gang graffitti, no identity theft, welfare rolls would come down ,more money in our schools , so I think I like those repurcussions. DEPORT ALL ILLEGALS NO MATTER HOW LONG THEY HAVE BEEN HERE

illegal residence in the country is an ongoing crime

No, it's not.

If you think it is, find the law and cite it, so the rest of us can look it up. I say the law exists only in your own head.

Prove me wrong if you can, and I'll admit to being mistaken. Until then, I think you're speaking out of school and presenting as fact things you know nothing about. I'll even give you a head start. Improper entry is a violation of Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter II, Part VIII, Section 1325(a) of the United States Code. Now, where's the law about ongoing residence?

Robbie you bring up an interesting point that has been sent back and forth in court cases. These cases often come up with how to go about determining legal status and the dangers of the illegal search and seizure.

United States v. Rincon-Jimenez, 595 F.2d 1192, 1194 (9th Cir. 1979) determined that that illegal entry is not a continuing violation -- that is, the offense is complete for statute of limitation purposes upon the alien's successful entry into the United States.

INS v. Lopez-Mendoza, 468 U.S. 1032 (1984) put some doubt on that previous idea by stating that Mendoza's deportation was legal.

In a dissenting opinion it was stated that being required to register was actually the responsibility of the parent if the child was under the age of 14. This would create some rather strange proceedings. You find a child under the age of 14 and you would be able to apply the statute of limitations since registering was the responsibility of the parent. You could deport the parent for failure to register the child but you couldn't actually deport the child until they failed to register when they hit 14. So 10 year olds parents get deported but he's legally allowed to stay in the country.

So the point of this is to show that whether or not staying in the country illegally is considered an ongoing crime has been questionable and would likely shift between a 5-4 decision to a 4-5 one within the next several years. This also goes to show the difficulty of dealing with this situation when children are either currently involved or were brought here while they were children.

Over the next few years you'll see a new Supreme Court case that tries to answer these questions. I would suggest reading http://www.justice.gov/olc/immstopo1a.htm

Now, for Bushwacker.... I'm assuming since you seem to know the repercussions to everything you have detailed analysis, projections, an economic degree, and years of study to back up these claims....If so please post them.

There are many more gangs of legal residents then illegal ones.... also, do you really think companies that hire illegal immigrants will suddenly hire citizens? Citizens cost much more then illegal immigrants do.... That is unless you want to work for a fraction of a salary with no health benefits.

For common sense. See supreme court decision INS v. Lopez-Mendoza, 468 U.S. 1032 (1984). The point is that it's not really well established law. There is a law against illegal entry but the question of whether that's a continuing crime has been left to the judges to figure out. In this 5-4 decision Mendoza's deportation was considered legal.

One thing I think people don't follow well is that a law doesn't have to be explicitly written to be applied. That's basically the judges job to interpret what the law means and what is a legal and illegal application of the law.

doggy, your logic is flawed on two counts - firstly, as american citizens, the convicts are protected by the constitution, and unless we are to become like the totalitarian governments that we have opposed over the last 234 years, we cannot pick and choose which citizens receive that protection. secondly, as robbie pointed out, illegal immigration is an ongoing crime, which is compounded the longer you remain in the country illegally.

here's what i propose: all illegal aliens who do not qualify for an exemption (such as political asylum) get deported forthwith and suffer the consequences, one of those consequences being barred from applying to come here legally for 2-10 years.

however, allow any illegal immigrant brought into the country before the age of 16, who has not committed a felony unrelated to his/her illegal status, to apply for appropriate documentation (green card, visa, what-have-you) leading to citizenship, without a waiting period. in other words, yes, they have to return to their home country, but they do so with a clean slate. the child should be required to do this within a 1 year period after learning of their illegal status unless they are under 18 years of age. those under 18 years of age would be required to do so within 1 year of their 18th birthday.

upon their legal re-entry into the u.s., they should be required to spend some specified period of time in public service, as partial compensation for benefits unlawfully received while living here illegally. alternatively, of course, the child could choose to go through the current application system, with the same statutes of limitations and the same requirement of public service upon reaching their majority.

a system such as this would preserve the integrity of our immigration laws, while recognizing the vulnerability of those brought here as children. it's not a perfect solution, nothing is, but i think it's a good one.

doggy, thanks very much for the education. I've downloaded the info from DOJ and look forward to reading it.

doggy- I don't need any of what you stated to make an intelligent opinion, and if you make them all legal, whats to stop them from demanding higher wages because you just made them legal, so now there are more illegals to take the place of the ones you just made legal, where does it stop ? are you willing to pay for all their needs? c'mon man up and take responsibility for all the new citizens you advocate for. so now what do we do with the next batch of illegals who are working under the table? you want them to? it will never stop until we have had enough and then someone gets hurt. the cycle must stop now.deport them all and no dream act

For Fifi. Not being a citizen of the US doesn't mean you don't actually have some rights. You don't have all of the ones that a citizen does but that doesn't mean you have none at all. For example, if you were to kill an illegal immigrant you would still be punished. Also, when convicting members of another country statutes of limitations still apply regardless of their citizenship. Secondly as stated in my previous post the decision of whether or not staying in the country is an ongoing crime hasn't been set in stone. You have a Supreme Court decision along a 5-4 line that allowed someone to be deported that challenged his deportation proceedings. However, previous court cases have stated that it isn't an ongoing crime along with many legal analyst. http://www.justice.gov/olc/immstopo1a.htm provides a detailed discussion on the matter with links or references to the court cases.

Now for your solution, if someone comes here at a very young age and finds out that they aren't actually a citizen it would be like you or I suddenly finding out we're not citizens and then forced to return to a country that didn't know us, we don't know them, we're not familiar with the culture and may not even speak the language. How would you like to find out that you suddenly had to leave your friends, family, job, school, and everything you've known to return to something completely foreign to you. Not to mention that the country you're going to may not even want you to come back there. This situation is different then most illegal immigrant situations due to the fact that they were brought here before they actually had the chance to even know the country they came from. This is why if they were brought here at that young of an age it would be rather cruel and inhumane to force them out when that's all they know. Refugee status should be granted in cases such as these since it's based upon the fact that returning to the country that they came from would be considered cruel and inhumane.

I would change your proposal to give citizenship to those brought here at that young of age, probably under the age of 14, especially if that person was currently serving in the military, going to college, or being an actual productive member of society as this person in the article clearly is. Yes you'll probably have a few that either just make or just miss the cutoff but they're a very small number in comparison to the whole group of illegal immigrants and won't adversely affect much. They can be dealt with in court systems on an individual basis.

Now, for Bushwacker again.... Here's why you need to add some of things I stated if you're going to make an intelligent decision or make such blanket statements. Cleaner streets won't be fixed by fixing illegal immigration, legal immigrants can be just as dirty. Gang graffitti comes just as much if not more so from black and Asian gangs which are legal citizens. Welfare rolls are based upon the health of your economy much more so then your illegal immigrant problem as evidence by having just as many illegal immigrants before the economic crash 2 years ago but having less unemployment. Secondly, places that hire illegal immigrants do it for the cheap labor and simply wouldn't pay a citizen to do one job when they can hire 10 illegals to do 10 jobs for half the price. Money for schools such as state universities and public schools come from state taxes and booting out all of the illegals won't do much to actually provide more money to schools. You have funding problems in states that have little to no illegals in them. Finally, if we were to go about trying to boot all of the illegal immigrants out, simply finding them all and establishing citizenship or not would require a huge financial undertaking that would adversely affect each of the things you previously state would be fixed without illegal immigration. So, yes it turns out you do need to do actually think about something before making a blanket statements.

Secondly, I'm curious as to your reading comprehension skills.... I never once stated in any of my post that we should make all illegal immigrants citizens. I never stated that because I don't think we should. I stated that in cases where a person was brought here as a child without the ability to say "no I'm going to stay in the country of my birth", shouldn't be in the same boat as the illegal immigrant that came here to feed off of the system. This is especially true in cases where that child grew up here, went to college, joined the military, and/or is paying their share of taxes because they actually work unlike many citizens. You won't have to pay for this groups needs because they contribute as much if not more to society as you do.

Now, do you actually have a counter argument to mine like some of the other posters? Note: a counter argument has to actually stay on the same topic as the original argument and not drift off into a different territory such as talking about making all illegal immigrants legal.

doggy - yes I have a reply, HE BROKE THE LAW, what part about that do you not understand, he had 5yrs to do something about his status , but he chose to lie on his college application instead, is this the kind of person you want here, the only reason he came forward is because he was outed, he even admits he would not have said anything because "it's something we don't talk about" he is a liar and a thief what part of that can you not understand, do you need me to tell you in sign language or better yet ,spanish. grow up , get a life , and come down to the border where I live and see what kind of crap we have to deal with because of you dumbazz liberal touchy feely types

Read the previous comments regarding the speed limit etc. and you might understand. I'm not going to re-post all of them.

The crap you deal with down on the border isn't due to this person or people like him. Not every illegal immigrant steals, murders, and takes things from you. This one actually pays back to society. He also told administrators of his undocumented status.

Here's another sentence from the article you must have missed.

"I think it does suggest that even though a student may be undocumented, they have a lot to contribute to the campus and come with skills, knowledge and a willingness to serve," Oliaro said.

OH look here's another sentence from the article.

Pedro Ramirez attends the university on scholarships and pays in-state tuition. When he was elected as student body president last June, he told the administration he would serve without pay — a $9,000 stipend — because he could not lie on employment papers, the Times reported.

Why yes... I must be mistaken. Clearly this student serving without pay as a school president caused all of your horrible problems down near the border didn't he....

FYI I'm Irish and Scottish. Personal insults don't help your position and make you sound like an idiot. Not a hard thing to do in your case though... And dude... work on those reading comprehension skills... they're rather useful.

OH yes... the scholarships he won clearly created all those horrible things like graffiti and gang violence you go through down near the border don't they...

the government would crumble and anarchy would ensue?

The US stands a better chance of collecting from the illegal individuals themselves than from the Mexican government .... so, no, that money is gone, and soon she will know how to push for more liberal policies and how to professionally bitch about how oppressive America is to illegal immigrants. Maybe some day she will ACTUALLY pay taxes back into the state/federal tax system.