Ease dropping on neighbors from a tree, while having a 13yr old tied up in the basement? creepy.......

There may be no connection other than that he saw the family in a store or passed them on the street. Look at the Connecticut home invasion family killers or Joseph Duncan, neither of them had any previous attachment to the victims of the horrible crimes that they committed.

I fear that the odds of the rest of the family being alive at this point are near to non-existent. This guy needs to be put down.

If he killed the other family members and friend, then yes, he needs to be put down.

I do not think that the issue is necessarily too many evil people as much as it is too many mentally unstable people. People that commit heinous crimes such as these, often display odd behavior for years before they commit these crimes. Far too many people are walking the streets with mental ailments that are noticed but not treated. I do not know what the solution is, but the problem is staring us in the face. The result of us just not doing anything is too high of a price to pay when we know what the results can be.

Absolutely, horrifyingly, disturbingly C R E E P Y.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look good for the other three. Glad they found the girl unharmed...if this bastard had anything to do with the kidnapping or disappearance of the others...fry his arse but good!

According to the Washington Post Hoffman's parents live near the little girl's house and he used his parents' address as a second address.

I'm guessing, no disrespect to the victims, he had an accomplice. We may be shocked who that person is, judging from many similar cases in the past. The young girl must have told the police what happened to those still missing. The police are not saying, for good reason till they find the missing and what lead them to this dirt-bag so fast, it may be a computer correspondence.

Evil, wicked, depraved! Man can sometimes be the most vicious and ferocious of species. A criminal mind such as his cannot possibly have a conscience. Preditors only know they want something and they take it, no matter the cost to other humans or the effort involved.

He won't make it in the general population...someone (alone or in a group) will take him out, so prison time is fine with me.

I listened to a much more detailed account of this guy and his weirdness that has been going on for a while but recently has been progressively weirder. I couldn’t believe my ears the accounts of him with the squirrels and the dogs, and the other extremely strange and erratic behavior.

The conclusion? This guy is completely bonkers.

He is living out a fantasy, while appearing rational, he is a dangerous killer; when he would be finished with the little girl, he would kill her also, and move to another prey; as for the three missing, they are in God's hands now !

Thank goodness that Ohio has the death penalty. (Ditto in Connecticut.)

When states finally start frying these abnormal animals, I can't help but wonder if the hundreds, if not thousands, of others don't move to states that don't have the death penalty.

Ease dropping on neighbors from a tree,

Hahahaha.

What do you think the chances are this girl will ever live a life without issues? Chances are nil. Once someone crosses that line and traumatizes another person, they are never the same. All the therapy in the world will not change what has happened but hopefully, she will learn to adapt her life and make good of it.

Sablelace - I think the chances get even slimmer when we reinforce in people the notion that they've just experienced something that should traumatize them for the rest of their lives.

I hope for this girls sake that she's got the determination of a champion, not the determination of most americans...who cant begin to figure out how to handle their kid if mcdonalds is forced to stop pimping toys with their unhealthy happy meals. Ya know, the bigger tragedy...a childs meltdown when he doesnt get what he wants.

Good point, I had thought about an accomplice(s) myself but on the other hand, a gun speaks volumes, if he had a gun. I Pray that these people are found safe and sound.

Sure he could. He breaks into an empty house. Picks them off as they come in, one by one. One of them has the presence of mind to fight back before s/he's overwhelmed, getting injured in the process; hence the blood. It's been done before.

Of course he could kill 4 people by himself, but then wouldn't there be more than one pool of blood in the house? Depending on how he killed them, that is. And I don't imagine that carrying around hundreds of pounds of dead weight would be an easy task either. I hadn't thought about the gun. You're probably right there, Chefaz.

Maybe not. If he grabbed the kids on their way home from school. All he had to do was take them home and threaten them to get mom and friend to cooperate. Any mom will tell you they will do anything to save their kids.

Also, don't forget the BTK killer, Dennis Radar in Kansas. His first victims were a family of four, including the ex-military father, that he trapped inside their house.

Don't think he'd kill them, just knock'em on the head and drag the bodies out of sight, one by one. No time to make sure they're dead, just unconscious and out of the way. IMO that's why there is still hope that they're alive, because he didn't kill them right there and then.

Or, as Rascal55 says, he grabbed a kid and used her/him to force the rest to cooperate. Either way, the fact that their bodies weren't found at the scene is encouraging, I guess. I mean, this is stranger on stranger crime, very difficult to solve if there are no witnesses. So in most cases, the pepetrator kills all witnesses at the scene.

Just sayin'. And wonderin'. Either way, this guy is one sick puppy.

@ beachbum - He could have abducted 4 people; which one of the women wanted to be responsible for getting a child hurt? all he had to do was grab hold of one of the kids with a gun/knife ...and he could have got women to do whatever he wanted if they thought have meant sparing the child. Sometimes shock/fear will cause a person to do things; maybe he immediately/abruptly attacked one of the four (in front of the other three), causing them to do whatever he wanted (keep them in line) :(

This makes me so sad. I hope the little girl finds her family. Hell of a way to go through this garbage dump...I mean world. I hope she has some relatives.

chefaz-1319563, Hello again,

Yes I totally agee.
Interesting that they did not say more about what transpried that the woman and child that lived with him not long before this event do not reside with him now!

All the very best

Very good points, MARSHA. We can put a lot of spins on this but until everyone is found or this guy confesses, it's all up for conjecture right now. Hopefully, those people that were living with him were not harmed and hopefully they find the girl's missing family members alive and soon.

it would not surprise me if the police find during their investigation that the girlfriend and child that was living with him are also missing

I have the same feeling. It makes me sick.

Yes, I have a sociopath living next door to me and she is pathetic. She always has her nose in my business paying attention to my comings and goings, what I purchase and then tries to outdo me. I just want to live my life but this crazy woman wishes she had my life and my husband, too. Her eyes leak misery and her family can't even see how badly she is in need of help, if there is even help for her at this point. It's crazy tragic.

I do not think that the issue is necessarily too many evil people as much as it is too many mentally unstable people. People that commit heinous crimes such as these, often display odd behavior for years before they commit these crimes. Far too many people are walking the streets with mental ailments that are noticed but not treated. I do not know what the solution is, but the problem is staring us in the face. The result of us just not doing anything is too high of a price to pay when we know what the results can be.

sablelace - how do people get their noses in other peoples business without being invited? im just trying to picture how this works, i've had neighbors all my life (im 31) and I dont recall any of them getting their noses in my business...unless you are talking to your neighbor (which begs the question, WHY?) how do you know that they are keeping tabs of your coming and going and buying things to outdo?

Maybe its you that has the issue? You seem to assume she wants to be you...and perhaps, you're just dead wrong on that. I know a few people who like to believe the world is hanging on their every word and move, and in reality...they just WISH people were paying attention to them.

If she really is a psycho neighbor stalker - cut all ties, stop talking to her and simply ignore. Problem is usually solved. It takes a mature grown up to follow through on this though.

how do people get their noses in other peoples business without being invited?

Practice?

This just occurred not an hr ago....I've wrenched my knee & so I called a nice neighbor & asked him if he'd mind running to the store for me, as I'm rather hobbled at the moment & it's a PITA to get out to the parking lot & drive. As he was on his way down here, he passed by the apt of the in everyone's business jerk of a neighbor, who's unfortunately one down from me & across the hall, & I heard this this idiot pop out of his apt & want to know why the nice neighbor, who lives upstairs, was doing down at this end of the ground floor! Is this his business? NO! But being an easygoing person who tries to get along w/ everyone (unlike me, who would've told this jerk to his face to mind his own business as I've done so in the past), the nice neighbor politely replied that he was off to the store for me b/c I'd hurt my knee. So now this will make the rounds of his little clique of equally nosy cronies in the bldg & I'm sure some story will be made up about it. By tomorrow I might be a homewrecking bitch stealing the guy from his wife or something the way this particular clique operates. Nice neighbor was doing me a favor & I still frowned at him for telling this dipstick my business. Some ppl need to get lives & quit living for penny-ante gossip about their neighbors.

Tho it is a pity the neighbor of this pyscho who had the bad feeling about him couldn't have done anything about it & perhaps prevented the current sorry situation. But you know cops would've shrugged off a guy stringing a hammock & lollygagging in it & told her he had the "right" to do that on his own property & not thought it odd behavior at all. The cops probably would've rolled their eyes behind the woman's back if she had called on this guy & figured she needed to mind her own business.

Jeez, Jessica - you seem determined to start a fight - first with the "Americans who can't handle their children" comment and now this.

I'm happy that you are 31 and never had a problem with neighbors. I'm 34 and have had problems...maybe you just need to give it more time ;)

Seriously though, don't generalize - all Americans are not crappy parents and your neighborly relations don't necessarily apply to everyone else.

Slivers of bamboo pounded under his nails and possibly electrodes attatched to his testes.

Yeah, because they ALWAYS tell the truth under torture.

LOL! yeah sometimes it seems like the right thing to do. Of course, it is not though......well....

Strap him to a board. Drop cold drops of water on his forehead until he's beyond insane.

Do the torture right, they will tell the truth...

I bet he would fess up right when he sees all the instruments laid out before him on a table.......

Under torture, he'd fess up to murdering Sharon Tate, ten years before his parents even met.

torture. does. not. work.

Yes!!!! Do all of the above to him until he fesses up!!!!!!! Scumbag....

"Under torture, he'd fess up to murdering Sharon Tate, ten years before his parents even met.

torture. does. not. work."

or maybe he'd lead them to where the bodies are since he obviously knows something since he had the girl. Its not like he'd just make stuff up and confess to shooting JFK.

Of course he'd make up stuff. He'll tell them anything to get them to stop. He could send them on a wild goose chase while those 3 starve to death. You dont torture another living human being.

If they find the people dead he is going to death row. If they don't find them at all there is enough circumstantial evidence to conclude that he murdered them so he could still get the death penalty. Either make a plea deal that would give him life instead of the death penalty or torture his ass. Both would work. The people on here do not know what they are talking about. Torture works when the person being tortured is the offender. What skeptics of torture argue is that people that are not involved give bad information under torture to make it stop. Trust me, every bad guy out there is not William Wallace from Braveheart. So please, would all of you self-made experts on torture please stop chiming in every time people frustrated with senseless violence suggest torture.

I couldn't agree with you more!

That is correct Innocent people give false information to make the torture stop because they do not know what the truth is. Its a form of guilty until proven innocent. There are 2 things wrong with torture. 1. It has and continues to kill innocent people and 2. the vietnamese have proven that it is far more effective to change ones paradigm (or belief system) than it is to torture them. Consider how many letters our captured military men wrote arguing how the US military should go home. Yes their words were taken out of context but their minds were softened and their words their own. Torture does not work which is why the FBI does not use such tactics.

And public hanging would do what? Monsters aren't going to be deterred by the threat of death. As you point out they are reality deprived.

First: My thoughts are with this family and my greatest hope is that they will all be found alive and be reunited - This poor little girl was certainly traumatized, and I truly hope the 'system' that is so often flawed will work to assist her in ultimately being able to live a full life. May she grow to be happy, healthy, and whole.

csh51274: prisons are penal colonies, not correctional facilities, as many of us would like to believe. According to a June 2006 U.S. prison study by the bipartisan Commission on Safety and Abuse in America's Prisons, within three years of their release, 67% of former prisoners are rearrested and 52% are re-incarcerated, a recidivism rate that calls into question the effectiveness of America's corrections system, which costs taxpayers $60 billion a year. Violence, overcrowding, poor medical and mental health care, and numerous other failings plague America's 5,000 prisons and jails. The study indicates that even small improvements in medical care could significantly reduce recidivism. “What happens inside jails and prisons does not stay inside jails and prisons,” the commission concludes, since 95% of inmates are eventually released back into society, ill-equipped to lead productive lives. Given the dramatic rise in incarceration over the past decade, public safety is threatened unless the corrections system does in fact “correct” rather than simply punish. www.prisoncommission.org/report.asp.

Does that mean I think this guy in particular can be rehabilitated? No, not at all - and I think hanging is too lenient. He should suffer, greatly. This little girl should be able to sleep at night knowing that this predator can never, ever hurt her or anyone ever again.

lets televise his capital punishment. sell it like Pay Per View, and put the earnings towards the national debt. we will be back in the black in no time.

Watch this sicko hang or get tortured for the low low price of $2! Come one come all step right up and watch this...

Where in any article published have you seen information given that states this guy is a sex offender? Why have you immediately jumped to this conclusion? Where do you get your so-called statistic that 90% of them re-offend? Your number is inflated by 1900%. You say you spent 8 years in law enforcement. I think you're a either a total liar or you have a vested interest in perpetuating the lie. Which is it?

Read the Department of Justice's report and you will find that the recidivism rate for sex offenders is under 5%. People like this guy, who has no prior record other than arson, are always going to exist. Hanging, or any other form of death penalty, won't solve the problem because none of them consider the punishment prior to committing an offense. It's called "magical thinking". They think they will never be caught, so why worry about the punishment? That goes for ALL crimes, not just sex crimes, which this may or may NOT be.

Why not just stick to the facts, quit demonizing, and jumping to unwarranted conclusions?

They get probation right off the bat, and do not go to prison. Therefore they are not part of your statistics.

The comment from someone saying that a neighbor sitting in your tree every night listening to whatver goes on in your home is not a big deal - yes it is, as it is stalking. It is not normal. I don't know why the neighbor did nothing about it.

Back in the late 80's, I had a neighbor (in the next subdivision, but he could see our house from a field) plan to kidnap my child, terrorizing us for nine months until we moved. He was not violating any laws back then. He later went on to rape a neighbor's child, but the family wouldn't proscecute, moving to another suburb. I have a feeling he kidnapped and murdered a girl later on (Plano, TX), since he matched the description to a tee, except for the convicted murderer's hair color (on death row, thank goodness). There were no laws to protect us, and the police were helpless to do anything, as we. It was not normal behavior, and it was terrifying and creepy.

I'm with you.

Wow, you had me til your rant took an unfortunate turn and lost all it's value with your ignorant political plug.

That's why in most states kidnapping (or unlawful imprisonment) is second only to capital murder in severity of sentence. Many cases of rape result in significant sentences due to the kidnapping charge - rape is the lesser included (BION).

To wit: O. J. Simpson languishes in a Nevada prison while we read this.... sweet justice.

Thats weird, before liberals really made their impact on society...conservative communities (which was nearly all of them) were releasing prisoners left and right in the 70's and 80's...and slapping rapists and child molestors on the hands.

Im sorry, but you cant pin the blame the judical system woes on liberals...we are the ones who want to kick the drug dealers out of prison, so there can be more room for rapists, kidnappers and child molestors (oh and murderers too). Yet, its the conservatives who are filling our prisons and wasting our money by locking up (mostly) non-violent drug offenders.

Of course, I guess we can be thankful that our prisons arent littered with white collar criminals like on wall street...there'd be absolutely no room for murders or rapists or kidnappers.

nonexistance things like talking snakes , 3 headed angels , people that live to be 600 years , noahs ark , etc...

Some people believe in UFOs and the paranormal. To them, those things aren't non-existant.

HAHAHAHA! Whoa this is some crazy stuff you are writting. Take a lithium

Pat, "being experienced", meaning you had law enforcement experience and are an expert in kid napping? or are you experienced in kid napping and are using your past experience to know that the missing persons are dead. There is absolutely no information in this article to suggest that anyone was dead. As I mention in my other posts, so often people post the most ridiculous nonsense on here, because they can. What in the world does believing in UFOs or the paranormal have to do with anything related to this story? One thing you are correct about in your comment, is the "unfortunate" part, yes, for us.

Sheesh, what a stood:S

Being experienced? . . . in psychosis?

Ivan the Terrible had a huge frying pan made just for that purpose.

The truth is Jimbob, that without special training it is very unlikely your wife will be able to fire when needed. I would encourage special practice often at body targets to develop an instinctual response. You know, many are killed with their own weapons. Shooting someone is easier to talk about that it is to do.

I'm not feeling like this will turn out very good for now, but, you never know and just maybe they will be alright. I once heard if you want to be treated a certain way you must treat others the same, so what would be the difference of giving him just a little of what he put out?

It's time for America to demand a little more compassion for the non-violent criminals, a lot more penalties for the violent ones. Also to enforce them in a timely manner, if the perp was confirmed by DNA to have committed the crime.

I really don't have a problem with the death penalty itself, it is the possibility of mis-use within the system that scares me. You really can't say our system isn't corrupt and that just maybe it can be used against you personally.

I think the wild mob ought to be able to judge the perp themselves, that way, if he is found to be innocent they can share the responsibility. Remember be careful what you wish for.

Well you know she hasn't been sitting in his basement safe and sound for a week...

What judgment, he had a twelve year old girl bound and gagged in his house. If that were my daughter I would be the one sitting in jail and he would have no worries.

And I'm guessing that the only reason she was still alive is because he wasn't finished with her. Sad, sad world we live in.

Regarding screaming - it depends on what neighborhood/area you are in. It TOTALLY makes a difference.

Sheesh, cool your jets. The criminal is in the jail, not writing these posts.

What does pornography have to do with kidnapping, binding, and gagging a 13-year-old girl? Are you telling me that every person who has ever viewed pornography will kidnap someone?

Think rationally. Facts only. Check emotion at the door.

On another note, my thoughts are with this poor girl and her family. I hope they are brought home safely.

Did you stop to think maybe he could have had her tied up just as a Hostage? Or maybe in that wierd p-brain of his, he thought he was rescuing her Because "God told him" to do it!? Or maybe the Mother paid him to tie her up and hold her there until she and the "girlfriend" came back from a fling. or maybe even the Brother did it! MY Goodness people, you are jumping to all kind of conclusions. This does not excuse him and we all have our Ideas...But, PORN? REALLY! Maybe it was one of thoose AWFUL SCAREY childhood stories we all grew up with, Let's see, there's the one where the old witch put Hansel and Gretel in a cage until she cooked them, or the big bad wolf who ate the grandma and laid in wait for the little girl...etc. I would be more inclined to think one of those stories or Maybe even a show like "Vampire Diaries" caused him to go off the deep end rather than porn, and I do not even like porn. Who knows, We'll find out soon enough, and then the punishment should fit the crime!

Well said Pat

& don't forget all of the women, teenagers and girls who are abused in this enerprise..

Well, this is the ostrich talk. There is no possibility of getting rid of pornography so get real. What could be done to make things better? That is where the focus needs to be.
No one wants to look at the situation honestly. It is not naked bodies that make a problem, it is corrupt thinking. You get rid of pornography and leave corruption you still will have all the same problems. Just look at history.

Pat, there are plenty of normal people out there who watch a little here and there. That does not make them dangerous. In fact, I bet if you ask around, more people watch it than would ever lay claim to it.

Try learning to spell and you might be a tiny bit more credible.

The only influence porn has on anyone is to stimulate their sexual desires, at best. There is not subliminal message to go out and murder, rape or commit a crime. Otherwise the millions upon millions of people worldwide which view porn in any form, would be ransacking villages, murdering and raping women and children,So get real. These crimes are committed by persons that are predisposed to their crimes. They represent a very small percentageof our population, the rest are cognitive of the difference between right and wrong. Then again, your other post was in reference to UFOs and the paranormal. Having been a cop for 30 plus years, doesnt make you an expert on anything. Your other comment stating that you know that the other people are definitely dead shows how you jump to conclusions without the facts. Some cop you must have been under those circumstances. How many cases did you assume guilty without the facts because you just know it all, or is that your own paranormal speculation.

this guy professes to have been a cop for over 30 years. Can you imagine the amount of innocent people that he arrested using his own bias and prejudices and not the facts. Typical oh so typical.

@1... I read Pats post and it mentioned NONE of those things... I am also former law enforcement and I can assure you there is nothing worse in this world than having to clarify that your childs death was NOT suicide..

Porn for typical, non criminal minded adults is fine.. for children it is against the law but they get it and things like that happen more than people want to admit..

@toomuchtime.. what is typical, is your stereotyping.... you have no knowledge and no cause to make a statement such as that.. it is inflammatory and an uncalled for personal attack..

Yeah. Screw the 8th Amendment! And while we're at it, let's get rid of the 6th Amendment! Criminals don't need legal representation! Obviously, anyone accused of a crime is GUILTY of that crime!

While I don't agree with using Singapore as a role model for our justice system, perhaps jude didn't think a public caning was cruel and unusual punishment considering his crime. I read no where in jude's post that the suspect should not get legal representation before the caning.

perhaps jude didn't think a public caning was cruel and unusual punishment considering his crime.

Well, thank God our supreme court justices thru the years have had more sense than jude, huh? How could beating someone with a cane (causing pain and scarring) be anything but cruel and unusual punishment? And if we're going to dispense with the 8th amendment, why not dispense with other pesky amendments that stand between the accused and our appetite for blood?

tristan -

Let's say you have a beautiful 8 year old daughter. Now let's say a man kidnaps her, tortures and rapes her for a couple of weeks and then kills her and pitches her body in a dump.

What would you consider to be cruel and unusual punishment for a crime like that?

What would you consider to be cruel and unusual punishment for a crime like that?

Anything that inflicts physical pain. And I would wish every conceivable pain on him. But I would still recognize it as a violation of the 8th Amendment.

Where in any posts is it suggested the amendments to the constitution should all be thrown out? I only read others opinions of such a horrible crime against a little girl and an innocent family.

Right. Just remember the 8th Amendment was written by people just like you and I. When enough people get tired of the pain, suffering, and death that is being caused by heartless evil people, maybe they will give thought to adjusting the 8th Amendment appropriately.

Right now there is not enough of an incentive for criminals "NOT" to commit crimes. They know that all that will happen to them at most is they will have to sit in prison for a few years getting 3 hots and a cot. Even the death penalty recipients spend years and years in prison and may or may not actually get executed. Our punitive system is a joke.

Where in any posts is it suggested the amendments to the constitution should all be thrown out?

Any post that calls for this guy's torture implicitly calls for the abolition (or at least the temporary suspension) of the 5th, 6th, and 8th amendments. I'm not sure what other amendments posters have called into question.

When enough people get tired of the pain, suffering, and death that is being caused by heartless evil people, maybe they will give thought to adjusting the 8th Amendment appropriately.

And we have a system in place to do that -- and I highly doubt a majority of states and a majority of our Congress will approve of such a change. But the bloodthirsty can dream.

I think you need to look over your amendments again.

I think you need to look over your amendments again.

What's wrong with Al's take on the 8th Amendment?

Al in Oregon said:

"Right. Just remember the 8th Amendment was written by people just like you and I. When enough people get tired of the pain, suffering, and death that is being caused by heartless evil people, maybe they will give thought to adjusting the 8th Amendment appropriately.

Right now there is not enough of an incentive for criminals "NOT" to commit crimes. They know that all that will happen to them at most is they will have to sit in prison for a few years getting 3 hots and a cot. Even the death penalty recipients spend years and years in prison and may or may not actually get executed. Our punitive system is a joke."

Al - agree with you 100%.

Seriously, folks, do any of these people think about the consequences when they plan or find themselves in these horrendous situations? NO!!! Nobody thinks "Oh, crap, if I shoot this guy I might get the death penalty, a lethal injection that's so painless, yeah, that will deter me from killing this person............" People are going to do what they want to do. Hormones, rage, mental illness, drug or alcohol-induced actions................they are not thinking about the consequences............people will do what they want to do; they will NOT think "oh crap, I'm in Texas, do I really want to kill this guy or just injure him? Hmmmm....lemme think......"

#25.7 - Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:59 PM EST

Well heck if that's the case why don't we just abolish all laws since apparently nobody thinks about them anyway. :) Seriously.... Bloodthirsty?