Wow... most appalling is the idea that so many people are ok with the government telling people what they can and can't wear on their head...

But it is a Euro country so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. The EU will soon have a law on how many times you can wipe your arse after each restroom break probably in the name of saving the planet.

Ninja's everywhere are shaking with fear!!!!!!

This is not as some in this article contend, an issue of religious freedom !!

Per the article, "Muslim leaders concur that Islam does not require a woman to hide her face"

I'm tired of folks hiding behind religion freedoms, racial sensitivities, etc. all in a pathetic attempt to get their way because their arguments when opposing something like this law, simply have no merit !!!

So Mr. Rogers If you were a LEO how would you approach the car on a traffic stop. Id make he/she/it get out of the car on he/she/its knees and remove the head covering.Its a matter of public safety

Wow... most appalling is the idea that so many people are ok with the government telling people what they can and can't wear on their head...

I would bet you are not from, nor have ever been in a country, where these types of headdresses are common. In some places in Europe they are very common and I know that a very significant number of women who wear them do not do so voluntarily. They do it under pressure from their male relatives and refusing to do so can result in consequences up to death. They even have places women can hide to avoid the oppression inflicted on them by male relatives.

The idea that all of these women are wanting to wear the viel is a myth eagerly promulgated by their patriarchal religious heirarchy. This law will be freedom for many, likely most, women who are currently forced to wear it against their will.

if france feels this is best for their nation, then more pwoer to them!!

we could learn a lesson from france. we have become a nation of politically correct pussies.

To paraphrase michelle, "for the first time in my life, I am proud of....France! France gets it and we still don't. What is wrong with this picture?

Look France has never been a Muslim Country and in todays climate of Radical muslims blowing themselves up, it is the right of the French People to have the Muslim Community, ( who the majority are from different countrys ) not wear burkhas in community settings.

Justice, it is well documented that many do so "under pressure" . . . this is why the fine for forcing a woman to wear one is $38,000 while the fine for wearing it is only $180. Based on the difference in the fines, and using common sense, what do you think the law is REALLY trying to prevent?

Logic is hard

I do not understand why they felt they had to enact this law, (have there been a rash of crimes by veiled women?) however since the women are not required to wear face veils by their religion I see no reason to disobey the law. If they want to pay the fines let them!

This is about government power to tell people how to live.

Freedom is not always politically correct or convenient. I feel bad for America as people don't understand these concepts anymore.

Id make he/she/it get out of the car on he/she/its knees and remove the head covering.Its a matter of public safety

Taking it off during a police stop and being fined because you are walking down the street with one on of your own free will are two completely different things. Come one.. .use your brain.

Government telling you how to dress is nanny state Socialism, par for the course for Socialist France.

However, all aspects of Sharia law, as they are enforced in the UK and France, should be abolished, like this garbage here:

http://www.homesoverseas.co.uk/news/Sharia_law_enters_France/8971-1002

France, keep your laws the same and do not alter them for Muslims or Hindus or Buddists or....

They (muslims world wide) will just demonstrate and kill a few of each other then France will back off.

Sounds like a plan!

Wow...can't believe I'm saying this, but Way to Go, FRANCE!!!

From this day forward I will call my fried potatoes French fries once again!

I can't believe I am saying this but, "Viva La France". It is time someone stood up to them and said this kind of crap will not go down in my country disguised as a religous practice. They are not required to wear the veil, and the woman they asked was probably accompanied by her husband, per her religion, and therefore would have most certainly told them she liked it. Then again she might just be a really ugly woman. Either way it is not right and it needs to stop.

If a person walks into a store wearing a ski mask, the people in the store feel that their lives are in danger.

I do not feel safe when a person (could be a man or woman) is in a burka because they cannot be identified if they commit a crime.

Having the face covered up in public should be against the law PERIOD.

@Justice-2347239 "how do you know they do it under pressure.."

Because in my lifetime(33 years), I have seen only one woman from a culture outside Islam put a full face covering on voluntarily, and that was Lady Gaga. To recap, out of all the thousands of women whom I can verify face no social pressure to assume the veil or face covering, the only one out of that populace who has appeared in public with a full face covering did so as entertainment in her act, not in real life.

Ergo, no woman wears a full face covering in everyday life unless she is under some form of compulsion.

we could learn a lesson from france. we have become a nation of politically correct pussies

America is enough of a police state as it is, in many ways more than Europe. I don't think we need to give cops additional reasons to tase and beat law abiding citizens or put more people in jails for non-violent crimes since the US leads the world in this category already.

Wow I wonder how many of these anti-viel posters call themselves "conservative"... probably most judging by their islamicphoiba...

Typical neo-cons... believe in "small government" but have no idea what that means.

Mr. Rogers.

What is wrong with this picture?

Nothing... this is America and I don't want the government telling me what kind of head gear can be worn or not.

Absolutely ridiculous. This is not even about religious freedoms, its about general freedoms. This isn't private school, we don't need the government in the business of dress code enforcement.

Last time I checked Mr. stands for you being a man and as such you wouldn't be wearing the veil regardless. So my question for you is.... Are you against the government telling you what you can and cannot wear? Or are you against the government telling you what you can or cannot make you wife wear? This law has nothing to do with telling someone what they can wear or not, however it has everything to do with telling a MAN what he can make his wife/girlfriend/daughter wear. The select few who choose to wear it voluntarily will get over it. This was about making a statement that France doesn't give a crap about what you want, they aren't going to let you force your opinions on you female friends and relatives.

I think the Women who was Interviewed was very clear about what she was saying.. Her words made us understand that she was wearing it voluntarily. "They do it under Pressure" how do you know they do it under pressure..

You understand, her husband made her say those things, right?

Longhair, you are so correct. This has nothing to do with religious freedom. If someone in a store is covered up and the only thing I see are eyes then they better stay away from me. I don't care who you are and I don't care what religion you practice. I don't care if you're purple, green, yellow, white, black, orange or magenta.

Also, I'm getting real sick of the media labeling everyone "Islamophobia". It's not true and the labeling is getting old.

Muslims and Liberals,

It isnt racism, bigotry, or anything else when it comes to Muslims and Muslim garb. If Muslims were thought of as peace loving, enlightened people then this sortof thing wouldnt happen. Why is it so hard to understand why a persons heartbeat goes up when they see someone wearing a burqa? Most of the people on this vine arent even European. Americans dont know what happens when Muslims begin taking over a community.

The French do.

If we went back to the 19th century, and talked to Europeans about the Ottoman Empire, we would be having an entirely different conversation about Muslims.

One last point. American Muslims and Liberals always want to show their superiority over everyone else when they make statements such as, "its only a small group of extremists". Dont these people know that the small population of Muslims in America and the slightly larger European population are the actual small portion of the Muslim population on this planet. Their are more hate-filled Muslims in Syria and Iran than all the peaceful Muslims in the United States and Europe, probably by a factor of 100.

Just for once, I want American Muslims to apologize and quit making excuses. Its like a goth satanist girl demanding respect because its just the small radical population of satanists that actually kill puppies and kittens.

Pathetic!

Ban the burqa in America. Lets be proactive about this. It wont be to long before a burqa wearing Muslim walks into a Publix and blows herself up in the name of Allah.

Oh but its just the small radical group.....

ViVa America!~

But nun's faces are not covered, that is the point here. It's for identity and safety purposes. There was a woman here in the states that tried to have her driver's license photo taken with her veil on, that kind of defeats the whole purpose, doesn't it?

Mr. Rogers, your reasoning is flawed.
Government is not telling ppl what to wear in the privacy of their own homes - but, when you go out in public, society has a right to protect itself.
Consider - a bank robber (yes, there are females) dons a full veil - she cant be identified, and, of course, if the police, are searching, they will only stop veiled women, a recipe for discrimination claims.
The Florida Dept. of Motor Vehicles was sued by a woman who claimed that it was her right to have her driver's license photo taken with her veil on. She lost ( I mean, c'mon now, do Muslim women have the right not to be identifiable ? Do they have MORE right to anonymity than non-Muslims ?
THINK of the bonanza it would represent to Muslim terrorists - to be able to have their plans, weapons, etc., carried in public, with no chance of being discovered.
Add that to the "stated" reason of the law, to protect women, especially minor women, who are compelled by their families to cover up.
Mr. Rogers - WHERE was your voice when, 8 years ago, it became a crime for a Jew to wear a Yarlmulke in a public school in France ?

Kerry and Mr Rogers- I suggest you walk into a bank with a full covering over your head and see what happens. It IS a law here already....just one more we choose not to enforce on SOME members of society. You know, like voter intimidation laws in PA being "overlooked" by holder.

DougM......read the article without bias and hatred. France is throwing away democracy for dictatorship. After being at war with Afganistan and Iraq to spread democracy; most of these comments on the board suggest the American people are for dictatorship.

It makes one wonder why these people would want to live is any country do diametrically opposed to their muslim culture. Oh yeah, I forgot it’s because they want to overrun it and impose their culture and laws.

Apparently the muslim population is France has exceeded 8% thereby exerting a dangerous influence on the country so this is probably France’s last opportunity to retain their country and culture.

Mr. Rogers - WHERE was your voice when, 8 years ago, it became a crime for a Jew to wear a Yarlmulke in a public school in France ?

Newsvine didn't exist 8 years ago nor had I heard of that law... ROFL.... obviously I would be against that as well.

Freedom means people can wear what they want. Tollerance means you can tolerate what other people do when you don't like it.

Kerry- wherever you come from, this is second post about Nuns.It is the full face covering that is objected to.Unless we see different Nuns- have yet to see their entire face covered.

This is not hatred against a religion- it is actually security.I am aware for all the reasons for all the headcoverings of Islamic women.

But if everyone went around in Nixon masks- people would assume ulterior motives.Even in ATMS and banks they ask you to remove hats, as well as sunglasses.If you have not seen that ATM warning ,you either do not live on East Coast or this country.

Just make the veils transparent so the face can be seen enough to identify if need be by law enforcement personal. Should make everyone happy...except maybe the forceful husbands.

eddd5992-2a6a-4e1c-94c7-9be01cec7ce1
1.03.01

Some of you have a very skewed idea of what Democracy is.

Democracy isnt the right to wear, say, or do, whatever you want.

Remember that.

Joan, LOL great post. If you walked into a bank wearing a Nixon mask you would get shot immediately. Oh cry whine its not Democratic that I cant walk into a bank wearing a mask.. even a Nixon mask!!! ROFL!!!

Wow... most appalling is the idea that so many people are ok with the government telling people what they can and can't wear on their head...

I can understand that point of view, but the ban is not without some sort of precedent. I think you'll find that outside of halloween, any wearing of a mask in public will spark a police stop.

I don't think it is illegal, per se, but it creates suspicion.

I understand the motive of the French, but I think some of the dark warnings on this thread are a bit much. The presense of Muslims in our society is not a "mortal threat", any more than the presense of Japanese Americans were quite the threat we made them out to be in WWII.

It is worth mentioning that the French are also busily engaged in expelling Gypsies from their country, so there may be more at work here than fear of terrorism.

It seems oxymoronic to ensure female rights by outlawing their dress, doesn't it? This law will only make things harder for Muslim women in France. They will be trapped between their husbands/fathers who insist that they wear the veil and the state that says they can't.

What should be outlawed is forcing someone to wear an oppressive garment that they don't want to wear. It would seem to me to fall into the same category as child- and/or spousal abuse.

Thanks Kerry! I live in a country where all religions somehow coexist..muslim women walk around everyday, some veiled, some not. I have friends who are muslim and they (both men and women) have told me that it is NOT FORCED on the woman to wear the hijab, niqab, or burqa...it is a choice.

Its the same freedom that everyone else has. The only difference is that in some middle eastern countries the religion becomes the law of the land (sharia) so wearing the full covering becomes a way of life for everyone as opposed to a choice as Islam originally states.

Don't get me wrong I adhere to the old rule of 'when in Rome' so i do think there should be some facility that France should offer when veiled women go to get a driver's license etc where you can see their face...Its the main way of identifying a person. But this kinda encroaches on someone's religious freedom..what next, making it illegal to wear a crucifix because its a symbol of torture and suffering??

Mr Rogers:

Your arguments are weak AT BEST and treasonous at worst because you feel the need to let muslims hide behind burkas...The muslims brought this upon themselves because of their actions. If you cant handle it that's too bad for you because the rest of us support it...You are a very tiny minority in here, look at all the posts that support france (for a change) vs. those against it...

YOU LOST THIS ONE, you lost it BIG TIME...

Nice try, but your screed is a no sell in here Mr Rogers...

You too Kerry...

This has nothing to do with religious freedom. If someone in a store is covered up and the only thing I see are eyes then they better stay away from me.

Wow.. I am sick and tired of the SECURITY AND SAFEEY argument.

We have given up SO MUCH FREEDOM in the name security that Osama Bid Laden has already won.

America is no longer the land of the free when:

So called conservatives abandon freedom of religion and property rights principals in the name of fear and what happens to be PC at the moment.

America is no longer the land of the free when:

8 year old have their names on no fly lists...

America is no longer the land of the free when:

Children are subject to naked body scanners that save pictures and expose young bodies to dangerous X-Rays according to Columbia university study.

America is no longer the land of the free when:

The Executive branch can deem someone a terrorist without evidence and have them captured, interrogated, tortured, and executed by the CIA anywhere in the world.

America is no longer the land of the free when:

Federal court rules that citizens who are wrongly abducted by their government, held, and tortured, have no right to sue the government or the private companies involved in the rendition, due to STATES SECRETS.

America just isn't America anymore... the word doesn't even mean the same thing and the sad part is, most people are so busy watching football or Jersey Shore they deserve what they get...

America, land of the dumb, broke, and fooled....

Wow I just realized that the California school district is practicing Islamaphobia, and has been for almost 20 years, because they banned red and blue scarfs from being worn by students, and made rules against wearing the scarf over their face. How long has this been going on......

Very good I'm with ya on this one!!!

mr. rogers,

America is enough of a police state as it is, in many ways more than Europe.

really? would you care to give detailed examples?

Wow I wonder how many of these anti-viel posters call themselves "conservative"... probably most judging by their islamicphoiba...

Typical neo-cons... believe in "small government" but have no idea what that means.

knock it off with the label bull@!$%#. if you can't state your case without name calling then you have no case.

Mr Rogers:

If you dont like America then leave it...I'll even help you pack...

Mr. Rogers,

Im so tired of the argument that it should be alright for a minority to break the law or rule.

Thank Xenu that baseball pitchers arent allowed to use the religious freedom argument... Zambrano would be sporting a 7 inch by 7 inch gold cross encrusted in diamonds everytime he took the mound.

Your argument and rationale is flawed.

Just read layers post..... hey bud.. I cant get in my car, drive to your house, and knock you in the head with a baseball bat. I may want to but its against the law...

You idiots need to grasp that Democracy doesnt mean I can light up a joint and smoke it on the footsteps of the Capital building.

Dolts.

really? would you care to give detailed examples?

I can give you dozens of examples, but the easiest and most glaring is the fact that the United States imprisons more people per captia than any other nation on earth including the socialist and communist regimes.

knock it off with the label bull@!$%#. if you can't state your case without name calling then you have no case.

You are either the most sensitive person on Newsvine, or that is your copout... I believe the latter is correct.

Mr Rogers:

If you dont like America then leave it...I'll even help you pack...

Typical Neo-Con response: "If you don't agree with me in destroying this nation by increasing the power of the government, launching endless wars all over the world, and running up the deficit further to bankrupt us, then you hate America and you need to get out"

It's almost laughable if not sad...

In the fashion capitol of the world, how could they ban head wear? I've seen many veils being worn on the runway. I guarantee they won't limit what designers can make during runway shows. Face it, it's Islamaphobia and those who try to hide this fact are self conscious bigots, afraid to show their true colors because they are cowards and make excuses like it's for public safety or its not required. This law affects 2000 of of 5 million Muslims and France probably wishes they they could affect more, but can't because they have their Nuns that dress almost identical excluding the veils. I guess it's take-what-you-can-get hate. Ban Halloween while you're at it.

You idiots need to grasp that Democracy doesnt mean I can light up a joint and smoke it on the footsteps of the Capital building.

It is VERY CLEAR that democracy and FREEDOM are two completely different things. You would hope that DEMOCRACY, a form of government, would be more likely to guarantee FREEDOM, a principal or belief in a way of life, however, history has shown as in the case of slavery, that this is not the case.

Unfortunately for America, most Americans believe everything they read on MSNBC or FOX NEWS to be the only truths and thus they are locked in endless debate in a false left/right game to realise they are being manipulated.

They should ban the wearing of clothes! Societal pressures is what make us wear clothes. And we should fine fathers that make sure their daughters aren't wearing too revealing clothing!

The United States already has a law that was passed by the congress and senate in the 70's. It was heralded by all as a step to curtail Klan Activity. Why should we make exceptions for the muslims or anyone else. It is a federal law if it is broken those doing so should be punished to the fullest extent of the law the way the same law has been enforced in the past. No bleeding heart liberal whining just enforce the law.

This French law bans not just covering your face, but also your head with Muslim head gear, even when the face is exposed. Of course a nun wearing her head gear is exempt as you and I would be wearing a baseball cap. Do you not see the problem now?

Will that law in France affect beekeepers?

This makes two countries...not exactly known for their rugged individualism ( Switzerland & France ) who have put their symbolic foot down on changes to their nations they do not want to see. Good for them. Why should every country have to kowtow to the wants of others, despite what it believes is right ?

The Swiss voted to prohibit large minarets of mosques from overtaking the skyline of their cities. Their's is a straight-democratic vote...majority rules...period. If a vote is taken and won by a single popular vote, it is a done deal. No politics. No influencing media hysteria. No nothing. Majority rules.

Imagine how the last two years in the US would have gone if we had such a voting system !!!

Here in the US....let's have anyone walk over the wishes of the many. Some dubious folks want a mosque near the site of a jihadist attack ?...No problem, can we hold your sandals for you when you enter.

One person sues a town over a simple nativity scene at Christmastime on the town green ?...No problem, we won't have the Christians insulting anyone anymore.

One child's parents don't like a Pledge of Allegience recited at school ? ...No problem, too many folks hold this country too highly anyway. And just exactly to which country's flag is that Pledge supposed to be, anyway ?

And don't you feel like a complete racist if you have any problem with the fact reported in today's news...that 7% of the children in this country under the age of 18 were born to illegal immigrants. You have a problem with that fact and you are an anti-immigrant bigot.

Not only do the Swiss make fine watches and unusually designed cheese...they give the people what they want when push comes to shove on an issue deemed important to their own country.

If they banned cowboy hats I'd make it a point to wander around in public wearing one every single day. The same people sitting here championing the French ban are those who screech loudly about Obama's "Communist plans" and big-government intervention here in America.

Talk about hypocrisy.

Tony...you are aware that slavery was a majority supported ideal as well?

Mr Rogers - you are a moron. try wearing a ski mask to get your drivers license photo taken. see how self righteous you are then.

I for one would be happy if I never saw another muslim face (male or female) ever again!

rogers,

I can give you dozens of examples,

then do it.

is the fact that the United States imprisons more people per captia than any other nation on earth

why? would it be because those imprisoned have broken a law?

you throw labels at anybody who doesn't agree with you. how simple minded are you? do you really think that one issue makes a person?

maybe you're right. maybe i am a neo-con.

i am very pro gun. in fact, my wife and i have 10 firearms, 3 of which are ar-15's.

i want our government to be fiscally responsible. neither party even comes close to satisfying those needs.

i want us to stop ALL foreign aid. we cannot afford it.

i want us out of the UN.

i'd like to see us drill our own oil, use our own resources while working toward energy independence.

i want corporate influence taken out of government. let the only voice heard to be the peoples voice.

i drive a gas guzzling truck and i love it.

i always buy American products when i have that option, even if i have to spend a little more to do it.

i want a strong military.

i want illegals out of this country. no amnesty!

My only problem with the death penalty is that it’s not used often enough.

yep, that sounds pretty conservative, doesn't it? but wait, there's more.

i am pro-choice.

i think marijuana should be legalized, though i do not use it.

i think we should close most military bases on foreign soil.

i think gays should be able to get married. it doesn't affect or hurt me in anyway. if it makes somebody elses life better, hey, that's great.

i am anti organized religion. i believe in God, i just don't believe in the people that claim to preach his word.

i want us out of iraq and afghanistan, now! the last war we fought that was worth fighting was ww2.

hmm. wait a minute, that sounds pretty liberal. is your black and white, simple minded little brain wondering what label to slap on me now?

is your simple brain going into overload because somebody doesn't fit into your nifty little preconceived notions of what a liberal and a conservative is? is your small-minded world so black and white that a person has to be one or the other?

you're like a little child that lacks the cognitive ability to realize there are many shades of gray between the absolutes of black and white.

"I don't want the government telling me what kind of head gear can be worn or not"

this is not "head gear" it is a full face covering and the law already tells you that you can not wear a face covering in public buildings or on public transport or drive with your face covered...unless you are a muslim....so muslims have rights and privaliges the rest of society is not allowed

Mr Troll:

Everybody in here is laughing at you...You and kerry are the only ones that support letting the muslims hide themselves in ninja suits....How about I walk into a bank with a ski mask on and see what happens? The muslims brought this upon themselves by their own actions yet you wont go near that subject because its untouchable to you...It destroys every counter argument that you can come up with so I'll say it one more time:

THE MUSLIMS BROUGHT THIS UPON THEMSELVES BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN ACTIONS AND NOTHING MORE.

PERIOD!!

I wanna read your posts on November 3rd after we throw your party out on their asses...Those are the only posts I will ever care to read from you....

See ya back here on the vine on november 3rd to read all of your crying and whining you're going to do about losing it all in the election...

Their loss will be at least partly due to their pandering of the muslims...

If this ban is found to not be in conflict with Frances constitution... and after already being voted on by the French elected Representatives almost unanimously.... and it has been made clear that the religion itself does not demand the use of the burka.... then... what's left to debate...?

France is a sovereign secular nation, and can decide for itself (within the boundaries of THEIR constitution) what is the law of France... If the laws of a particular country run counter to your cultural preferences, then you are free to immigrate to one that better suits you.

If a non-muslim woman goes to Saudi Arabia, they insist that she covers her head with a scarf... that is THEIR law... their culture... no double-standards are necessary... one will suffice.

I find it amusing that those who try and denounce anyone who supports restrictions on Radical Islam (and make no mistake,facial veils and Burqqas do not represent anything BUT Radical Islam) can't understand that these veils are a symbol of the repression of women. So guys, is it okay if the fundamentalist Muslims oppress their women?? How would you feel if you were told by your husband or family that you had to wear this oppressive outfit?? Burqqas do not belong in civil society, period. If some Muslim women WANT to wear them in private or at their houses of worship, fine, but in public when there might well be a man behind the veil?? Hell no!!

Is anyone else sick and tired of every freakin news headline the past 2 months has something to do with Muslims??? This is getting so old that I am almost praying for another gulf oil spill just to hear something new!!!!

What's with all the :

"I can't believe I'm saying this but : vive la France!"

"Even though France is Historically Coward"

"Wow...can't believe I'm saying this, but Way to Go, FRANCE!!"

Seriously, you guys have no idea about the french history, you think they're cowards just because of the foolish american-view of WWII, when America wasn't even at war !!!!!!!!

So please, spare us your anti-french manners.

I forgot that in America you guys are all obsessed with ITALIA, talk about cowardness. How pathetic.

rogers,

Of course a nun wearing her head gear is exempt as you and I would be wearing a baseball cap.

since when does a nun's head gear or a baseball cap cover everything but your eyes?

France should of put a stop to this problem a lot sooner. There's one thing I know the ISLAM woman who cover up like this can be a threat. They can hide bombs under their clothing even men can disguise themselves with this to kill innocent people. Can't trust any Muslim they all stick together. The reason why I think this way, after 9-11 and who I lost a love one and was there when it happened. I never heard anything from those moderate Muslim who was against attacks, no protesting against terrorist acts, they stayed silent so they wont insult their Muslim brothers or sister well I say to all you Muslims out there; you all are just as guilty for being silent and not showing any anti-terrorist protesting to let the world know. I lost all respect for any Muslim or any other religion who uses religion for murdering innocent people and hope to GOD that he will strike you down and punish you. The rest of the Arab worlds who are against terrorist act should stand up and fight those who want to destroy human life otherwise you all are cowards and pitiful to the human race.

BAN! BAN! BAN!

Note to all religions: Stop having assinine outward expressions of your faith.

I fully support the ban and hope we do it here in the US, as well.

Hello,

How quickly we forget “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness” in our zeal to make them (whomsoever they may be today) like me. In that this is about secularism and not culturally biased, no woman will be allowed to wear her grandmother‘s veiled wedding gown, nor can any designer create a veiled hat for woman, because no society that believes in liberty would ever consider singling a group and writing law specific for a group. Moreover, no thinking society would assert female empowerment restricting female garb.

The sad fact is people lie about loving freedom, because no liberty loving person could ever cheer for a nation that even considers deciding what clothing is appropriate for their citizens. They lie about women’s rights as well, for there is nothing in this article that controls male clothing. Many that assert they are libertarians are liars too, because this is an assault on liberty, however, we (and if necessary I) who love liberty will state that France’s new law is shameful and as a political body, those that approved this law hate liberty.

Granted the enlightenment philosophers that developed the beautiful ideas of “inalienable rights” lived and wrote in the late 1600s and 1700s, but it is obvious to my small brain that too many of us have not learned the meaning of those ideas. France decided to modernize and affirm Sartre who thought “it is all meaninglessness.”

Be Well,

I don't know about you, but this was written by a former Islamic man who does not agree with it's teachings any more. I can see why.

The Qur’an tells us: “not to make friendship with Jews and Christians”
(5:51), “kill the disbelievers wherever we find them” (2:191), “murder
them and treat them harshly” (9:123), “fight and slay the Pagans, seize
them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” (9:5).
The Qur’an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises “If there
are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you
will vanquish a thousand of them” (8:65) Allah and his messenger want us
to fight the Christians and the Jews “until they pay the Jizya [a penalty
tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing
submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). ”
Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our
promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them
whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us
to “fight the unbelievers” and “He will punish them by our hands, cover
them with shame and help us (to victory) over them” (9:14).
The Qur’an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and
relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis
(filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight
the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It
says that the “non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling
water” (14:17). It asks the Muslims to “slay or crucify or cut the hands
and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with
disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter”
(5:34). And tells us that “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire
shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water
whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they
will be punished with hooked iron rods” (22:19-22) and that they not only
will have “disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall
make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire)” (22:9).
The Qur’an says that “those who invoke a god other than Allah not only
should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of
Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in
ignominy” (25:68). For those who “believe not in Allah and His Messenger,
He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!” (48:13).
Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to
be “harsh with unbelievers”, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours
and colleagues (48:29).

"Does this go for the Nuns as well? They are covered from head to toe. I know many muslim women who by their own choice want to cover. If this law is not applied to the Nuns then this is only hatred against a religion"

Yes, but i dont know of any Nun's that have full face coverings, but if there is some full face covering of any religion - it would be banned. But to my knowledge there isnt any other religion that has full face & body covering.

Now, how will you be able to tell who is a terrorist? It's really bad when FRANCE has a more rational approach to controlling radical Islam that America. I hope they arrest all of those rag head women and put them in the Bastille and throw away the key. I am angered every time I see a Burka-clad women in public. How many other ethnic groups continue to wear their native garb? This is not an issue of religious freedom but an in your face political statement.

MeHere-1865442

I know where you are coming from... But we have to observe France's constitution, not ours, in this case.

I wonder if Obama will comment on the wisdom of this law.

Also, I walked through the break room at work and saw there was a bomb threat at the eifel tower. I guess this was the reasoning behind it.

And I shouldn't be surprised, but the MSNBC story mentions nothing about Muslim extremists (not even the word Muslim) in their story about it buried in a tiny headline halfway down the page. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39177318/ns/travel-news/

I am surprised they didn't mention it's because of a Tea Party member, conservative, or Bush though.

Layerpeeler

Many of you people just don't GET IT!!!

You can not force me to do anything I don't want to in this country or in any other country.

Wow how much of a FOOL can you be.

When you goto other countries, you are expected to obey their laws. Why do you think when we have Hillary and other females visit the middle east they are wearing head gears. It is required by law, so they do it.

In related news, convenience store clerks and bank tellers across France breathe collective sigh of relief.

Driving is a privilege, not a freedom. So, yeah, if you want to drive in any Western Country--off with the camo.

Progressive...

The key word being that slavery "was" supported by a majority in the US...much like is "is" supported today in several areas in Africa.

Is it possible that slavery could have been voted down by the majority of Americans at that time before the Civil War was begun ?

Who knows ? But the votes might have been there !

Not required. Not needed. An easy way to hide a bomb, or even one's sex.

Jewish wear yamikas, Catholics wear hats, but the face and figure are clear to all.

It's really a "veiled" threat. Simple logic.

This is not a case of Muslimphobia. A phobia is an irrational fear. The French have a rational fear. Their culture and society is at a crossroads. The banning of the burka is a rather weak response to a mortal threat.

How is GENDER EQUALITY a mortal threat?

An infringement on America’s First Amendment? The United States Constitution?

Is this a violation of the expression of free speech and or free expression, expression of Religion? ???? Humm ???????

I vote that this form of:”religious freedom” conflicts with the right of the State for security and that the expression of this practice can be used as a ruse for individuals such as bombers used to conceal weapons of mass death. I’m of course speaking of the full body covering dress, so may styles of Western, hauteur couture of today, could be used to conceal weapons. No full face veils in public, do the crime pay the fine or jail time. The Secular State right to be free from religion is paramount.

I vote no full-face veils in public; I am in approval of the decision of the French government. Hide your face in priviate, you face hiders have that right, and mabybe in public establishments that allow that to the diners.

I think it is kind of sexy when a fox just peers at you with those dark brown (they have green eyes and all the rest of the colors) beautiful eyes behind a veil. Call me what you like its kind of cool in its own way. I have meet and like the very few Muslim women I have met, not like our up tigh "everyone (men) wants me", how much do you make? Maybe I have been meeting the wrong American women, Latinas a cool to. I am digressing I do think so.

Bye..............

Leaders of countries, and everyday people are coming out of the closet, not worried about what the protocol is for the Extremists and followers. This is actually a win on the War for fear of reprisal.

France's decision is a good start.

We are all the same. Congratulations to President Sarkozy for not putting up with all the demands made upon his country.

Hello,

V..., you are correct, but I see many here cheering the idea, because people always think "it will not happen to me," while ignoring the fact that liberty must be a part of the individuals that populate the nation.

Be Well,

What really irritates me about Muslims is the fact that they think everyone must accomodate them while they refuse to assimilate! And if you don't do what they want, they threaten violence just like the imam did in New York City over building the mosque near ground zeros.

It is not the actions of France that I am watching, It is the action of the Murdering Muslims every time something happens or is said that they disapprove of. So, we are all to shake with fear when the Murdering Muslims don't like something?... I believe they call that "Terrorism" and I am not playing their game. Muslims world wide may as well get it through their 1500's thinking that a bomb is not going to get you your way every time.

Eventually, when the weak kneed, cowards see how they have been manipulated by fear they may just grow a spine and say enough is enough. Either join the 21st century with the rest of the planet or prepare to be offended.

Every day I hear Progressive/Liberal Elitists in THIS Country say that Christians and their beliefs are Draconian and Superstitious non-sense... but they'll go clamoring about waving the "Freedom Flags" the moment some Murdering Muslim or New Age flunkies want a bit of the pie.... What a lump of Hypocrisy. An absolutely 100% predictable action by those who think like them.

Can't have it both ways..Liberal/Progressives.... you cannot protect the Murdering Muslims who kill in THIS day and age for religion sake because you believe you have a case that Christians did it in the Middle Ages... It does not work that way... Here is the fruit of your efforts... YOU, being Terrified by the people YOU protect.

Good luck... I would as soon see them eradicated from the planet like roaches as live in fear of them.

It makes one wonder why these people would want to live is any country do diametrically opposed to their muslim culture. Oh yeah, I forgot it's because they want to overrun it and impose their culture and laws.
___________________________________________________________________

Thats an easy one. They are not in France to assimilate with the French. They are there to TAKE FRANCE from the FRENCH! Their GOD ALLAH specifically demands that they not befriend non believers, to do so, Allah says in the KORAN that he will turn his back on the Muslim that befriends an infidel. This is what people need to understand.

The Muslims hate the west and everything it stands for, they want to conquer the world and they have plan in place to do it. Google the ISLAM 100 year plan that's over half way in the making? The WEST needs to wake up. These people are pure EVIL and are doing this FOR THEIR GOD!

This law is blatant discrimination against Muslims, no way to get around that. Trust me, I'm NOT a bleeding-heart liberal. JEEZ, people in America are called racists and Islamophobes for not wanting the Muslim center built 2 blocks from Ground Zero, yet it's okay for France to ban veils? How are they going to enforce that? Are they going to arrest women for wearing them, or just hand out tickets? Are they going to interrogate them to make sure some guy isn't forcing them to wear this thing? If her husband/father IS forcing her to wear it, do you think she'll actually tell you, or would she be too afraid of being beaten? This would NEVER fly in America - do you REALLY want the Gov't telling you what you can and cannot wear?

Ok lets just make wearing ski masks around legal................... because its a part if my religion of course.

We will have to address this here in the US... sooner or later. We had better get a handle on these kinds situations right now.

Poster Above -

Re-read the article again, it is the face, I repeat, it is the face that cannot be hidden behind a veil.

Nuns attire do not cover the face as I have come to be acquainted with the robes of a Nun.

Nice try but try harder next time,...NEXT....equality under the law in the public interest at this time.

TBourlon:

The Muslim's voices are getting louder, and we are loosing our Right to our Freedoms in the US.

Do you like all the Security Checks and hassle at the airports, and always worrying about being blown up? Who are the Majority of people doing this?, including our turncoats, "home grown terrorists" flying back and forth to their camps in the M.E. for learning to destroy America.

Who should be telling who what to do. Remember War was declared by the Extremist Islamists on September 11, 2001. That's when the dictating from this large group began. Where are the louder voices of the Muslims/Islamists denouncing anything that has to do with Islamist Terrorism?.

We can no longer stand for people from other countries changing our country's Constitution and the way WE live!

For all of you championing freedom on behalf of Muslims, try selling some of that in a Muslim country. People that want to wear burkas need to go live in Saudi Arabia, where as we all know, your freedoms are abundant.

independentbychoice wrote:

**********************************************************************

rogers,

I can give you dozens of examples,

then do it.

is the fact that the United States imprisons more people per captia than any other nation on earth

why? would it be because those imprisoned have broken a law?

you throw labels at anybody who doesn't agree with you. how simple minded are you? do you really think that one issue makes a person?

maybe you're right. maybe i am a neo-con.

i am very pro gun. in fact, my wife and i have 10 firearms, 3 of which are ar-15's.

i want our government to be fiscally responsible. neither party even comes close to satisfying those needs.

i want us to stop ALL foreign aid. we cannot afford it.

i want us out of the UN.

i'd like to see us drill our own oil, use our own resources while working toward energy independence.

i want corporate influence taken out of government. let the only voice heard to be the peoples voice.

i drive a gas guzzling truck and i love it.

i always buy American products when i have that option, even if i have to spend a little more to do it.

i want a strong military.

i want illegals out of this country. no amnesty!

My only problem with the death penalty is that it’s not used often enough.

yep, that sounds pretty conservative, doesn't it? but wait, there's more.

i am pro-choice.

i think marijuana should be legalized, though i do not use it.

i think we should close most military bases on foreign soil.

i think gays should be able to get married. it doesn't affect or hurt me in anyway. if it makes somebody elses life better, hey, that's great.

i am anti organized religion. i believe in God, i just don't believe in the people that claim to preach his word.

i want us out of iraq and afghanistan, now! the last war we fought that was worth fighting was ww2.

hmm. wait a minute, that sounds pretty liberal. is your black and white, simple minded little brain wondering what label to slap on me now?

is your simple brain going into overload because somebody doesn't fit into your nifty little preconceived notions of what a liberal and a conservative is? is your small-minded world so black and white that a person has to be one or the other?

you're like a little child that lacks the cognitive ability to realize there are many shades of gray between the absolutes of black and white.

***************************************************************************

I couldn't have said it better, friend request sent... :) ...By the way, in response to this part:

"i am very pro gun. in fact, my wife and i have 10 firearms, 3 of which are ar-15's."

You should see my gun collection, you'd jizz... ;)

In fact, I just bought another Dragunov sniper rifle this morning.... ;)

Mr. Rogers

Governments have always interfered with the way people dress. A woman cannot walk topless down a public street in almost any country. Perhaps the ruling is such that it is considered obscene to overdress as well as underdress. I saw a muslim woman at the beach last summer and thought to myself, while others enjoyed open-ness and freedom, what was she doing there? She was putting her religion on display to please her mysogynist husband and imaginary Allah.

So I wrote a song sung to the tune of itsy bitzy teenie weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini...and it goes like this:

She was afraid to come out of the mosque
She was as nervous as she could be
for Allah's police might beat her
If there's something juicy they might see...
One two three four, tell the people what she wore...

It was a hot and heavy thick and wooly multi layered coal black burka
That she wore for the first time today
A hot and heavy thick and wooly multi layered coal black burka
So in the mosque is where she wanted to stay

One two three four, she'd better hide the Mullah swore!...

France is going to the side of fundamentalism of other type. This is an attack on woman freedom as to what she is allowed to wear??? Another try to control women. May be they should pass a law in France that men cannot cover their head for the same reasons for equality...but as always easy target is women.

I see no reason to allow people to hide their face in public.

My religion requires me to wear knives and guns everywhere I go. That ok with everyone?

Religion does not trump law or common sense.

Finally someone is standing up to the Moslems. It is about time. If the Moslems in France don't like it they should move back to the ME. I doubt many Frenchmen would be upset about that!

This isn't an issue of religious freedom. Islam does NOT require the wearing of the veil. It's a political statement by a certain sector of the Islamic population.

Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar Mosque and Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar University in Egypt has called for it to be banned and The Muslim Canadian Congress has called on the Canadian government to ban the veil as well. They find it offensive that this political garbage is being pawned off as religious freedom and call it an insult to the female gender.

Read more: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/10/09/tarek-fatah-burn-your-burka.aspx#ixzz0zXsgQtMb

Time for everyone to wake up and quit being politically correct suckers.

Naahh, the Afghanis will riot and President Obama will announce the Allah given right of the Moslem to enforce clitoridectomies worldwide-- A US Supreme Court Justice, stumping his book on ABC News this morning, announced plans to have a series of First Amendment cases that will lead to banning the Right to political expression if persons in Third World nations object to the content, and I kid you not. Take a look at the transcript, interview was by George (the procurer of Monica for Bill) the constitutional law professor.

Why do so many people, including our President, believe that freedom of religion means 100% religious tolerance?

We can not be 100% tolerant of any religion, period. We need total separation of church and state for true freedom of religion to work.

Prayer was removed from schools and the 10 commandments removed from court rooms/houses (statues, plaques, etc) were two that needed removed and glad they did. Sexual orientation laws need to fixed to where 2 consending adults, regardless of gender, can marry, have mutual sex, etc. Abrahamic religious views are what hold that back. If this were the true land of the free, we'd all be free to do what we wish, within true human right laws (not bigotory religious laws). Removing facial coverings is a safety issue and I applaud France to looking after their citizens.

This isn't a religious issue, it's a safety issue. Freedom of religion should be free to worship in a place of worship according to your belief or in your home.

Don't get me started on our diminished freedom of speech rights.

I pretty much see things eye to eye with independentbychoice in post #1.64.

Exodite Dragon ...The same people sitting here championing the French ban are those who screech loudly about Obama's "Communist plans" and big-government intervention here in America.

Talk about hypocrisy.

What people like you fail to consider is that while you may not like the French ban on burqa's, the French have the right to keep their own country their own. Get it?They have already given up much of their own rights and country to "outsiders" through the decades of "multiculturalism" and multi-ethnic immigration, much like we in the U.S. have.

If you're not sure what I mean about giving up freedoms, let's consider an interesting scenario: Consider Japan.

The Japanese have the right to keep their own country their own. They have the freedom to observe and celebrate their own culture, heritage, language, religion and style of dress. They have no claims of "racism" tying up their court system. They have no backlog of never-ending "discrimination" suites bogging down their industries and institutions. Their government doesn't waste billions of dollars (yen) by throwing it into a giant black-hole of socialist policies trying to reverse so-called "racist" policies of the past.

The Japanese are not being forced by their own government to cede their rights and lands to others. They are not being told by their media and government that their own heritage and culture is "narrow-minded, bigoted and hateful". They don't have these problems because they have not been "MULTICULTURALIZED". They do not have large portions of their population from different cultures and races struggling for control of the whole at the expense of the original peoples (Japanese).

It is for these reasons that the Japanese people will continue to have their own country. Their children, grandchildren, and great grand-children will inherit the RIGHT to their own country and we will not.

The government does in fact tell us what kind of head gear we can wear. Maybe it's just state or local governments, but the laws do exist. Only rarely do you hear of them being enforced. Some were written to get the KKK out from behind a mask and bare publicly who they are, they are still on the books.

Let them have their way or we won't have an Effiel Tower to visit anymore !!!!

Part of the thinking behind this law is that there have been incidents of men in burqas committing terrorist acts.

I think it's interesting that some people on this thread are using the argument that because a few muslims do something all muslims should be held accountable. Really? So by that rationale are we, as Americans, responsible for every single stupid or misguided thing our government has ever done? Or, if you are a Christian, should you be lumped together with the crazies that kill abortion doctors or protest at soldiers funerals? This is the same rational that was used by the terrorists to blow up innocent people in New York. Lumping us all together as those evil Americans. I find it baffling that here we are doing the same thing. I hate those damn burkas. As a woman I find them offensive and ridiculous. Even the head scarves piss me off. I have to fight the urge to rip them off when I see them. HOWEVER, it would freak me out if our government passed a law banning them. Seems to be a violation of personal rights. Where would it end? Seems to be a slippery slope.

You cannot have a Bible in a Muslim country pinheads, they will kill you for just having one. This is what people are defending, the right to kill, maim, and illicit violence, all in the name of religious freedom.

T Bourlon

This law is blatant discrimination against Muslims, no way to get around that. Trust me, I'm NOT a bleeding-heart liberal. JEEZ, people in America are called racists and Islamophobes for not wanting the Muslim center built 2 blocks from Ground Zero, yet it's okay for France to ban veils? How are they going to enforce that? Are they going to arrest women for wearing them, or just hand out tickets? Are they going to interrogate them to make sure some guy isn't forcing them to wear this thing? If her husband/father IS forcing her to wear it, do you think she'll actually tell you, or would she be too afraid of being beaten? This would NEVER fly in America - do you REALLY want the Gov't telling you what you can and cannot wear?

In America, government tells us what to wear already or we'd have public nudity. Stores even have "No shoes, no shirt, no service".

I could also care less about the building of the Cordoba House, it's two blocks away from Ground Zero (this is my opinion). I also can see where it could be offensive to family and friends of the victims. That makes me open minded. Too bad neither side wants to compromise without threats of radical violence from both sides (radical Muslims and radical Americans).

Immigrants shouldn't go to another country to try and conform said country to their laws, when laws are done in place. Every nation in the world has the right to their own sovereignty. If the laws of said country (especially a secular one) doesn't fit to you, move to where you feel you fit in better. It's that simple.

I wouldn't go to any other country in the world and try to conform their laws to fit me. I wouldn't move there anyway to have that problem. Seems religious or ethnic groups are all about conforming things to themselves only. If set laws aren't in place that work for everyone equally, there is no true freedom to anyone. Someone will always be the minority.

This issue isn't about religious bigotry. The article itself stated "Muslim leaders concur that Islam does not require a woman to hide her face". It is a safety issue for identifying people. Let one group do it, and others will come up with excuses to do the same... be it ski mask, handkerchiefs, etc.

You will never be 100% free to do as you will. The world would be in chaos if that was allowed. Think about it. Laws are needed, and France's government did the right thing by thinking of it's citizens first.

Ok people, see how far you can get walking or driving around with a ski mask covering your head, with just two peep holes. Walk into a bank, or airport like that and see if security doesn't approaches you with guns drawn?

How many Muslim women are beaten by Muslim men with the full knowledge their crimes go unnoticed because of the niqab, and burqa?

@blakoleander

I have friends who are muslim and they (both men and women) have told me that it is NOT FORCED on the woman to wear the hijab, niqab, or burqa...it is a choice.

Yeah... they have the choice of wearing it or getting the living crap beat out of them by all of their 'disgraced' male relatives or even suffer an honor killing. Some 'choice'.

Immigrants should be required to FULLY ASSIMILATE into the society of the country to which they emigrate. That means CLOTHING, CULTURE, CUSTOMS, LANGUAGE, LAWS and DUTIES as a full-fledged citizen. They don't like it... then they need to go back to whereever it is they came from.

Ever been to South America ? If you think that I , as a woman, could live in a SA country like Venezuela and wear my normal clothing .. . SHORTS , SLEEVELESS / TANK TOPS, MIDRIFFS....you're sadly mistaken. They are SERIOUSLY FROWNED UPON ... even for tourists. American's and certain Europeans are not allowed to wear OUR customary dress in Muslim countries. This issue goes both ways.

Pedro 4U that's not fair! You and the rest who run around acting like ONLY muslim men abuse women?? You mean women a free and equal here and no woman is abused?? When I give to charities, I give to groups who protect women HERE from abusive and murderous husbands and boyfriends. And before you accuse ME of being a woman, I am a red blooded Conservative Christian MAN! I consider all grown cowardly boys who call themselves men who beat women scum of the earth and should receive the same 10 fold as punishment. And if your name Pedro denotes you race (Latino) there is a stereotype of Latino males beating the hell out of their women. BUT I KNOW that to be a lie because I have many Latino friends and NOT one has harmed there wives or girlfriends. DON'T make baseless accusations.

I have a question- is that a guy, or a woman, in the car with the veil on?

No way to tell, is there -

this is a security issue, period - Go France!

France...the country that never practices what it preaches. What they do or say is almost irrelevant to the world

Fair enough, Mr. Rogers, POST 1.22 - but you are silent about the other part of my post....DO Muslims have the right to get their driver's license picture with their face covered ? Do they have the right to drive with their face covered ? DO they have the right to refuse to uncover their face when being questioned by a police officer ?

No if they want a license of any kind then they must expose their face or if the officer request the removal of the veil in a traffic stop. Then it must be removed..

Well, darn. I would guess that these women cannot vote either, can they?

Good for France. I hope they go through with this ban.

For me it is a matter of national security. Also, the driver dressed in all those veils can cause an accident.

I LOVE this idea. I realize that these burkas represent religion. I disagree with this religion's policies that women are subservient to men.

The French are banning burkas for 2 reasons: 1. They don't like women being seen in a subservient role; and 2. public safety. Those burkas hide bombs from time to time.

Merci mes amis.

Their country, their laws. You bloggers should understand a few things. Not to many people care about what is said on social networking unless it's incriminating to yourself.

Secondly, weither it's constructive critisim or degradation of another, doesn't amount to much because because as soon as a person is put into powerful position you'll be quick to find out that people can't be controlled. Rather people have the right to choose their own will and destiny.

Can't have it both ways..Liberal/Progressives.... you cannot protect the Murdering Muslims who kill in THIS day and age for religion sake because you believe you have a case that Christians did it in the Middle Ages... It does not work that way... Here is the fruit of your efforts... YOU, being Terrified by the people YOU protect.

Good luck... I would as soon see them eradicated from the planet like roaches as live in fear of them.

Bravo. Sometimes Newsvine is GREAT because we can really say how we feel - anonymously - and so many true emotions arise. I never would have guessed that so many people in this country are against burkas and Muslim - except for the comments on Newsvine.

I am totally against any religion that treats men as subservient to women.

And regarding the nun discussion, as a former Catholic school girl, NUNS NEVER COMPLETELY COVER THEIR FACE. Many, many, many, many years ago, Catholic nuns did wear full veils and full dresses, except their faces were never covered. In fact, there was a little white skull cap that kept their hair away from their face and framed their face in white. However, that was about 50 years ago and when I was older, I rarely saw these full veils and dresses when I became a teen.

I officially wear the mantle of knucklehead according to Daisy!

Well, yes, I am knuckleheaded when it comes to dealing with stupidity. Apparently Daisy went all the way downfield with this and accuses me of running a church. Okay. I understand hyperbole on the internet. Well done!

So, how about let's look at practical reasons. When your 'religion' asks that you do something which makes it easy to break laws, or actually break laws, I'm sorry, I don't really care anymore about religion, and common sense takes over.

You can be faithful to any religion and not have to wear a mask. I mean, is wearing a giant cross or funny hat any less of an expression of your faith? Sure, I may not approve, but it doesn't necessarily prohibit you from being identified. A mask does. And it really is as simple as that.

So, proud to be a knucklehead against an even greater stupidity. Because according to hyperbole and Daisy's logic, if my religion sanctions wearing a mask, maybe even committing robbery or killing people, well then, It's OKAY AND DON'T SUPPRESS PEOPLE'S FAITH!

Yey, internets hyperbole!

Rather people have the right to choose their own will and destiny.

This is NOT true of our government. We actually give up complete freedom for the benefit of the public good. In complete freedom, people are free to murder. Therefore, as a society, we agreed to eliminate that right. Look up John Locke and you learn more.

Absolutely a must-have law for every country. In today's day in age, it is a matter of public safety. Try walking into a convenience store with a ski mask on and you are likely to get shot by the owner. This is common sense. Thanks to thugs, bums, and lowlife that populate our world today, we can't have people walking around unidentifiable. Not to mention, it clearly is a safety factor when driving. The material can easily be blow over the eyes. It only takes a split second of blindness to run down a little old lady crossing the street.

it is NOT a personal freedom or right to completely cover ones face as to not be recognizable as to who you are, and moreso as to what gender you even are. period. it is already law here in the us that one is not to have their face covered in public, and the acception right now is the extreme islamists. theyre ok to do so and no one else. now your argument looks foolish! i do not want to be around anyone whom covers his/her entire face as that is a huge safety issue and can easily hide identity of one whom may be dangerous or wanted.

suspects are lined up for identification after bombing

eyes , eyes , eyes, eyes , eyes , eyes , hhmmmmm, which was it? fool.

Excellent, logicalthinker!

But don't try using logic in this arguement. Because its all apparently about the right to be dumb.

Obviously, I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and find it quite...logical.

Many of these women don’t want to wear it, they are FORCED to wear it! It’s another way of suppressing the woman, taking away her self esteem. In these countries, women are treated like dogs. Do you really think they WANT to be treated that way? God forbid they should be seen out in public, especially by a male. Seems to me, if the male is excited by the other woman, HE should be ashamed of his over active imagination not the female.

I used to work with a girl from Pakistan. She always wore a head covering, yet she had BEAUTIFUL hair. She had a baby and her parents came in to the office one time with her and the baby. They complained that she was fat now. I told them they should take her outside for a walk, not complain about her. (She had confided in me that she is not allowed out of the house unless she is accompanied by her husband, father or brother.)

Derek and logicthinker,

Guys these are their laws and religious rules. If these women wish to wear the garb of their religion and culture why would you care? You wouldn't change the way you dress if you went to another country, why would you dictate the dress codes of others? What happened to "Land Of The Free"? Where I live there are people of several different countries and they wear the clothing of their culture. Big Deal! If a woman wears clothing that covers her face, so what? When she enters a high risk area, THEN ask her to lower her veil for security reasons and raise it again as she exits the high risk area. Where is the problem with this?

There is no law in the United States that says you cannot cover your face in public. High risk areas do require that you not wear masks, sunglasses, or hats that prevent identification upon entering, but they are not laws.

Layerpeeler, You talk like a person I had a conversation with on another thread. Did you change your screen name? I have a suggestion you might give some thought to. Your point may be better taken if you would tone it down a bit. It's obvious that you actually do give a DAM given the way you said it. Try using less exclamation and question marks, they only make you appear to be out of control and I'm sure you don't want to give that impression.

Logicthinker, consider that most criminals that are running from the law try to blend in and stay off the radar so to speak. Do you really believe that a criminal would walk the streets with a veil over his face? Think about it.

I observed a muslim man in Shorts and a tank top in the grocery store the other day, I guess with his wife, But I dont know. She/he/it was covered from head to toe. It was bizarre to see him in normal summer US dress and he/she/it completely covered.

I guess they cover their women because they cannot control themselves. What a disgusting way to live. Here in Fl., when I see the women all covered up, got to wonder how hot they could be. I have been posting all along about how Europe now recognizes they have a problem appeasing Muslims everywhere. Countries have customs, traditions, borders & laws for a reason. When you go to a country you need to assimilate. NOT try to change that country to what you think it should be. In our schools now here in the US, they are trying to get Ramadan recognized as a holiday. Changing football practice in MI to appease the Muslims fasting. Would any of you want your young son going to football practice at 12 midnight??? They're doing it and here. Oh how tolerant we are becoming to the point of being politically INCORRECT!!

I have lived and traveled to many Middle eastern countries. I was surprised to find out that one of the most popular stores in Saudi, is none other than Victoria Secrets. Yep..... in their own homes they can be the dirty little tramp we all want our women to be. Sorry ladies I had to say it.

HEY PUCKIE.....LMFAO!!!!! NOW that is funny. Do tell....LMFAO!!!!!

I can see it now..."The Ladies of Islamahbad" calendar coming to a Victoria's Secret near you.

Jimmy- you realize that is not funny, as well as with the current climate, is apt to be taken quite badly

lol Puckie is actually right! when indoors with family a muslim woman can wear what she wants-shorts, tank tops etc! She can even parade in front of her husband a lovely new VS addition lol :)

The Burqa is a practice of "Cultural Islam" not Islam itself. Let me remind the sisters who want to defy the new law "When a Muslim is in a country they are to abide by the laws of the land, if they do not then they are going against Islam". Sisters please abide by the laws or move to a place where you can exercise your choice and live in peace.

PuCkiE

I have lived and traveled to many Middle eastern countries. I was surprised to find out that one of the most popular stores in Saudi, is none other than Victoria Secrets. Yep..... in their own homes they can be the dirty little tramp we all want our women to be. Sorry ladies I had to say it

I understand that they only have men allowed as sales clerks, they have to have a male relative escort while they are shopping, and that women have to take their purchases home before they can try them on.

It's popular there because men want to see the women at home parade around in their undies. Heaven help the woman who wants plain cotton that breathes and her husband doesn't want her wearing it because it doesn't fit what his dreamscape.

Great idea for Victoria's Secret television ad....a model strutting around in her burkha and (stealing a line from an old Calvin Klien ad) whispering into the camera "Do you know what comes between me and my burkha ???"

I've seen and read about these jihadist morons talking about the "72 Virgins" awaiting them after they blow themselves to pieces.

Are all those vigins wearing burkhas or silk push up bras and garters ???

They all wear burkhas and look like Lon Chaney Jr.

LOL dave - now that is funny.

dave...

I loved Lon Chaney Jr.....do thay look like he did with or without the full moon ?

For all of you championing freedom on behalf of Muslims, try selling some of that in a Muslim country. People that want to wear burkas need to go live in Saudi Arabia, where as we all know, freedoms are abundant.

You cannot have a Bible in a Muslim country pinheads, they will kill you for just having one. This is what people are defending, the right to kill, maim, and illicit violence, all in the name of religious freedom.

Many, many pages ahead, a user by the name mrjamia posted his Islamic treatise on Allah's bountiful treatment of women. Read it and take to heart what is in store for women (and everyone else) if Islam ever does gain ascendancy over Non-muslims:

May the Almighty shower His blessings upon you all and make you understand the law and facts about islam.

6. And for the country making rules against islam will suffer because the curse of Lord of the whole universe is not far, and examples are in front of every ones eyes.

I believe, as one Australian Minister said, immigrants come to our country because they want to be here, we expect them to assimilate to our way of live, and not the other way around. If they do not wish to assimilate they shouldn't be here. And I say, AMEN! Our great melting-pot of immigrants have all assimilated to our way of life, why would we expect less from any other immigrants, even if their goal is to destroy America, and impose global sharia, and world domination, which is islam's STATED goal. Sharia is completely opposite and incorporatable to our Constitution. They would deny any other religion's equality to theirs. Why are we even considering them legitimate. The koran, and islam is the only religion that advocate, promotes and commands murder, and genocide (Jews). I would ban it as a hate-crime book.

And by the why, Dearborn, MI, belongs to the USA, not muslims!

If they don't wish to assimilate, they can go back home, PERIOD. If they are US citizens they should be divested of there citizenship and shipped back home, where they can kill their own!

Political correctness is going to ruin this country, if we allow it. Let's use common sense and common law! If it isn't broken, don't fix it!

The muslims degrade their women and now are pissed off because they can't cover their bodies? Boo hoo. I'm all for the law if it pisses off the muslims. Just think how much more peaceful and less controversial the world would be without them.

"I will continue to live my life as I always have with my full veil,"

Dear girl,.....you live in France...one of the most progressive countries in the world.

Even THEY can see the wisdom of this law and the internal security reasons behind it.

I think you need to relocate to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria, Morocco, or Dearborn, MI, etc.

I agree, I'm for any law that angers Muslims. Maybe, they will get so mad that they take their nasty selves back to where they came from. If you cannot assimilate into a culture, (when in Rome...) then you should leave the country. How's that for PC you liberal scum?

Hello,

Ninjas study the art of assassination (murder) and if our military or law enforcement were so naïve that they only looked at people that wore hajab or kufi, our nation would be a smoldering pile of ruins.

Be Well,

"...looked at people that wore hajab or kufi, our nation would be a smoldering pile of ruins."

You mean like in: Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, Somalia, Yemen, Bali, etc.?

Hello,

What I mean is terrorist attempt to blend. Their camouflage is looking like the people around them. There may be aspect that is not observable to the public, but factually many of the crazies do not even attend mosques. Amongst their fellow worshipers their difference might be obvious. Also note, Turkey and Indonesia are functional nations, whereas Somalia is anarchistic.

Be Well,

So it's better for the government to oppress by telling us what we can and can't wear, rather than having a religion telling its own adherents what to wear? I'm having a little trouble with the logic of that.

Whatever, Moron???? Does Paris Hilton get to post here? You go Frenchies!! I recall an attempt by the French a few years ago to eliminate/reduce Americanisms in their language too. I thought it foolish at the time but probably was wrong. Regardless, until humans quit buying the nonsense of life after death, and that ain't likely, charletons are going to continue selling it and their customers are going to continue killing over it. Just happens to be the islamists this week. It was YOUR religion last week. You can say it's a misapplication of the faith but it's where the 'faith' always ends up. You can look it up.

you're statement above proves closed minded idiots still live in this world, and unfortunately, somehow have mustered up the capacity to post such trash about topics they know NOTHING about. wow.

"We are a free society and the veil reeks of oppression."

Really? For all women? Ask the majority of Muslim women about it and they will tell you very openly that they do not view it as oppression, nor is it forced on them. Yes, it is in some countries and in some families, but not most. That notion is a result of our western thinking and ideologies about women, relationships with men, religion and freedom, etc. which can be very different from those in other countries. The freedom to wear the veil or not should be a woman's choice just as it should be a woman's choice to have an abortion or not, or to work outside the home or not, or to do anything a man can do or not. America is and always has been a place made up of many cultures, just as France has. Only in recent years have we seen the rise in xenophobia and begun assuming (incorrectly) that all Muslims are terrorists. They aren't. And believing and saying so is simply evidence of one's own fear-based bigotry.

"Islam is NOT a RACE, but a destructive, oppressive ideology."

No one has ever said it is a "race." It is a religion. And obviously one that you have neither studied, or taken the time to understand based on your comment.

How many seemingly "peaceful" Christians have sent money to U.S. based terrorist groups like the KKK, or the Aryan Nation, or the many others who have wreaked havoc in the U.S.? How many seemingly "peaceful" Christians supported what Timothy McVeigh did in Oklahoma City, or David Koresh's madness in Waco? Or supported and still support the killing of abortion providers or bombing of clinics? Do you?

Truth, Are you for real. What needs to be known about this subject. Thats its wrong on several different levels. Look I live 2 miles from the largest population of Arabs outside of the Middle east, I have no problem with a head scarf. Its the full Burka that bothers me.

When do the buddhists get a turn to kill everyone? When was their last turn? Can you tell me that Greg?

Although disgusted by some of the bigoted comments and sweeping generalizations about Muslims and Islam from those who never bothered to read nor understand, as an Muslim American I know that Islam does not require women to cover their faces. Covering their heads although is a common choice muslim women make.

As for the burka/veil, I understand the security risks it can pose. Please also remember radical fanatics do not speak for this muslim or his religion.

Have you guys read the article where it says Muslim leaders concur that Islam does not require a woman to hide her face?

There are rules of dress - schools have dress codes. Some cities have adopted laws stating how low your baggy pants can be. There's laws against wearing no clothes at all. There are laws against how much tint is on your car's windows (I know it's not clothing, but a car is thought of as extension of ourselves). These are safety & decency laws; not government intrusion.

Islam asks that women dress conservatively and that covering a womans face is not required.

Rachel- simply- full face covering(religion or not) is a security matter.I feel genuinely sorry for Muslims who have been offended by some of these posts.

I also would pose to Muslim men- while there are reasons for veil, do you not think the security of your women is more important than thousand years of tradition, which is not mentioned in the Quran?I believe only mention is modesty

Joan I agree with you a 100%. It does pose a security risk to all and none of the women in my family cover their face or their heads and none of the men in the family including myself insist on it. We are educated American Muslims (men/women with graduate degrees) who love this country and much as anyone else and the freedoms it offers. This quite simply is the best place in the world.

Why do these people come to our country and develop "small countries" of their own? They should go back and quit trying to take over. We need to get tougher. People are invading not immigrating. WAY TO GO FRANCE!

I have to post this for my Sisters out there and for those who have not taken the time to study Islam. As a Muslim woman, and widow, living in the United States with two small children, I wear my head covered (not my face), my 8 year old daughter has recently made her own decision to cover her head. It was HER decision....

Here is a bit of reading materials for those who say its not in the Quran...it even lists verses for those of you who don't want to actually pick up a Quran and learn about what you are talking about before making yourselves look like fools.

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter7/2.html

deleted

fixthe...

If you travel throughout the US it appears there have been many "small countries" established from coast to coast, largely in our nation's cities.

OmarKhan
Thank you for your post. I wish more muslim's would speak out on the radical fanatics. When the good muslim (or christian) people don't speak out against the radicals that claim there faith it can give others a bad view point of that religion.

rachel-314542 says:

"We are a free society..."

yet also says:

"Wear your veils at home or at church."

Wow, talk about an incongruous pair of statements that don't stand up to the test of reason!

If we are a "free society" then aren't we "free" to wear what we want in public? And if we aren't, are we really a "free society"?

Taking it a step further, if rachel-314542 chooses to wear something in public that enough of us find offensive, for whatever reason, that we get a law passed outlawing what she has chosen to wear, I wonder how she would feel about our "free society"?

The British government of King George II imposed the "Dress Act" in 1746, outlawing all items of Highland dress including kilts with the intent of suppressing highland (Scottish) culture.

35 years later the "Dress Act" was removed from British Law.

Even though he had died 476 years prior to that event the Scotsman William Wallace (whose famous life and exploits were protrayed in the motion picture "Braveheart") had won yet another victory for "Freedom!"

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

Should all those who have advocated here that we in this country follow the lead of France and outlaw the veil (and Burqa) prevail in doing so there is no doubt that they will have to contend with the William Wallaces of our time.

FREEDOM!

Jimmy -- Buddhism is not a religion or a philosphophy. It is a way to live your life to it's fullest potential.

I too would like to apologize for all the offensive misinformed posts here on the Vine directed towards Islam.

Tolerance and common sense seem to be keys here.

Write what you want, misspell your words, and rant and rave all day long on this electric medium and it will not make you a better (or worse) human being.

Taja- Did your daughter make that decision because the biggest influence in her life, YOU, wears one?

I suppose when she becomes a teen and decides that she hates you the head covering will disappear.

@Longhair- I've always thought the most stressful job in the world would be a bank guard in Faibanks Alaska in December.

Try being a bank manager in the dead of winter here. Oh and there are signs posted outside our banks that specifically say to remove your ski masks before entering the building.

Hey Jimmy the last time buddhist were given the oppertunity to kill everyone (or at least tyrannize them) was in Tibet prior to the chinese take over. Google Tibet pre 1959.

Abonides....actually my mother and I are BOTH big influences in her life. And guess what, my mother doesn't wear one. It was HER decision completely. IF in the future she decides to NOT wear the scarf anymore then that is HER decision.

Notice how the atheists aren't causing any problems in the world.

Steve...

You are correct...very few problems ever seen with athiests, God love 'em.

You seem to have forgotten about the USSR. They were officially atheist and responsible for a lot of problems.

This is so true. No other culture is pushing their beliefs on us. But then, no others call for extermination of non-believers. I support this law on the grounds of public safety.

Kind of like Isreal being invited to dinner and then taking over.

More like a son who was illegitamate that returns to take his Father's lands by force, then gets upset when the rightful heir regains it.

Kerry....
Only a fool could take THIS article and STILL find a way to blame Israel....
I suppose Bush is at fault too ?

No one is pushing their culture on anyone. People in this country are free to dress as they please and that includes everyone. Although wearing the burka/veil is a security risk as a person wearing it cannot be identified in case of a crime being committed.

I agree that people from other cultures should try to assimalate and be a part of the social fabric.

Knowing those arrogant p.o.s. they probably would tell you what to cook or bomb your house cause they are mad !!Got one question : Why do convicts convert to be a Muslim ?? Most do ???

well said Omar Khan.

I don't care what country someone is from. If they choose to live in another country they should live like the people of that country and not try to make that country like the one they just left. If you want to live your life the way you lived it in your own country then go back to that country and enjoy your culture. If I moved to another country I would learn their language and culture and live as they do. I would not expect them to change their way of life to accommodateme or my beliefs.

wytravelr "Got one question : Why do convicts convert to be a Muslim ?? Most do ???"

Got one answer: Calypso Louie Farrekahn and the Nation Of Islam do heavy recruiting in U.S. Prisons. Once they put on the knitted cap, they receive special treatment. A different diet, prayer rugs and they are allowed to congregate together for prayer time. They even have arrows pointing towards Mecca painted on the floors.....Equal Justice my eye....

Omar Khan, I do agree with you. It is important that we be able to see a person's face. If a crime is committed a person could hide inside a burka and you not only couldn't see their face, you couldn't even be certain of gender.

Rogers--

France is a secular nation protecting their secular status - they have 5 million muslims over there. This is also about bondage & oppression. Males who force women to wear the burqa will face significant fines & possibly jail time. What woman would refuse to comply with the men of the house if they could end up dead for dishonoring them. Let's face it the kind of guy that's going to insist on covering THEIR woman up like that is likely the kind that'll have ideas about dealing with non-compliance.

I also agree with the potential safety issues involved in being unrecognizable.

You want to announce you're a muslim? Wear a pendant.

I agree that people from other cultures should try to assimalate and be a part of the social fabric.

Omar, I wish everyone could take a minute and think about that. What ever foreign country one visits, they should respect the laws, speak the language, and be on their best behavior. As a visitor in another country, there is no reason to expect the rest of the country to change for the visitor.

Only "demanding" they cook something you like, "not" asking.

Wow. Anyway...

This is a law against religion and female oppression. I guess if it's not your religion being suppressed it's OK. I'm all for women's rights, but this law is a bit too PC. It's also generally against freedoms, but somehow these posters are all for taking away freedoms when they hate the target of the law.

Someday, you may be the target of these freedom-depriving laws. Won't be much fun then, my ignorant and anger-inclined friend.

so clotho, we can all walk around concealing our identities and you would be ok with that. also, in a full burka, which is flowingly loose fitting, is a great way to conceal explosives. Mind you, not all suicide bombers are male. As far as targeting those that they hate, if violent action was not part of their beliefs, then no one would even notice nor care about the attire.

I would still notice. They look like someone stuffed grimace in an oven and left him there too long.

KKK should qualify as Ragheads - right!? Although I am not an Arab, just wanted to point out that all muslims are not Arabs, in fact the majority of muslims are non-arab. As for taking over the country and bringing Sharia law, there are no such plans. We are quite happy with the constitution we have in place since it is one of the most beautiful documents ever envisaged. Maybe you should read and appreciate it sometime. Maybe you'll get over your bigotry against fellow Americans who also happen to be Muslims.

Clotho

"This is a law against religion" did you read the part of the article that says, there is no requirement in the Kuran to wear a face veil?

"... that isn't a real religion"

So which "real religion" do you follow:

The one with enchanted gardens, magic trees, and talking snakes who double as food dispensers? Or the one where the priests have to put on magic underwear to get to paradise?

Stop...

I thought that those priests simply had the altar boys wear the 'magic underwear' and called it 'paradise'.

Because the United States doesn't pass judgment on every religion. We are free to practice any religion we choose, not just the ones the government decides are "correct". Sorry if that offends you.

Hello again clotho,

But when practicing your religion endangers public safety, limits need to be placed. Granted, those this law may affect, may be true believers and quite innocent of all violent acts, but when attired this way, who can tell the difference between the peacefuls and the extremists? If this belief system did not promote violence against those who do not agree with it, then this would be a moot point, but since the violence is encouraged, it is the governments job to protect its citizens.

It's a shame too, because we were not thinking about blood thirsty warlords with purverse beliefs parading their society of violence and fear as a religion when we made those laws. Last I checked no muslims settled in the 13 colonies. They just seem to move from place to place like weavils looking for a new crop, until the farmer finally decides to exterminate them, then it is on to the next field to rape and pillage.

Clotho,

The Goverment cannot adopt a religion. They can impose laws , ie. it is against the law to perform a Human sacrafice.

The law is not against your druid beliefs or religion, but more of a protection for the sacrafice.

cedrickcooperpenny......If you knew anything about Islam, Muslims, or the Quran you would know for one that All muslims are required to read the Quran. Billions have memorized large parts of it and Millions have memorized word for word the whole Quran. A person sitting in Japan (knowing only Japaneese) can say the same verses as someome one sitting in Germany (knowing only German). No other book can make this claim.

If you take the time out to understand without bias what the Quran is saying you would see that it is forbidden for a Muslim to cause harm to even non-muslims. Islam is the ONLY religion that guarantees that even a Muslim that is not good to God's creation can go to Hell. There's no savior; everybody is responsible for their actions. When reading it is best to know the CONTEXT and/ or BACKGROUND of what is being said. If you actually take the time to understand what is being said you would see that there are many commands which tell the Muslims to be good, otherwise there are dire consequences. If you took the time to research you would know that Muslims believe in the Bible and Torah before it was altered. There are many versions of the Bible and even Christians argue to which one is the correct one. Even the priests know that there are lost parts of the Bible that nobody can account for. The Quran is the Only Holy Book that has stayed the same throughout, word for word, dot for dot (it is the Quran if it is in the Arabic Language; otherwise it is just a translation of the Quran).

My point here is that nomatter what somebody believes in; the outsider should take the time out to learn and understand where the other person is coming from. The people who create mischeif do not represent any religion or belief system.

Clotho, what offends me is 9/11 and every other terrorist attack by Muslims stupid!

@kerry-1934042

Simple enough answer, encourage people to read the quran. Here is the link:

http://www.quran.com

Surat At-Tawbah is one chapter I repeatedly love to read: http://quran.com/9. I find it quite interesting how verse 29 encourages your religion to subdue me and pay me pay the Jizyah!! OH CAN I FEEL THE LOVE NOW!! Verse 30 encourages your god Allah to destroy Jews and Christian for their beliefs...OH HOW PEACEFUL A RELIGION!!!

I can tell your a Muslim or come from that angle simply by your statement the Torah/Bible was altered. That is a an Islamic doctrine.

But they should really do the world a favor and spay & neuter themselves.

This is not harassment. Wake up. Muslims are trying to show their strength and power over us and any laws we have. In their eyes we are all infidels. An infidel has two choices....#1 Join with the Muslims or #2 You are killed. Sounds real peaceful, huh? It is also o.k. to lie to an infidel. Gee, no wonder Obama lies to us all the time. And don't tell me He isn't Muslim. As I said.....WAKE UP!!!!

Justice, then you would agree that when my wife is in Pakistan she can go around in a tank top because....well hell...... that is what we do in our native country. And while she is at it she can put up the Christmas tree and wait for old Saint Nick with the AK-47.

Seriously they refuse to integrate and therein lies the problem. As long as they remain isolated and separate they will be an underclass and eventually revolt. The US is the world model to prove integration of multiple peoples/customs makes a strong country. The melting pot of the world. Although is /was and still is a bumpy road.

The French are right and I applaud them for their stand.

Ever hear of the "frog in the pot"?
When you want to cook a frog, you put him in a pot with warm water - it likes that, and, as the water gets hotter and hotter it just doesnt notice and is cooked.
WE in America, are the frog. SO intent on bending over backwards in the name of political correctness, that we dont notice it getting hotter and hotter - until we are...dinner.
WAY to GO, France.

sorry fool, they're already here! and guess what, america was born on the idea that they have every right to be here.. go read a history book.

America was born with the beliefs that noone should oppose anothers religous beliefs. The problem is that the Muslims do in fact oppose our religous beliefs. The vehemently do, and they deny women their rights. Another idea we have here, that they are equals. So you go read a history book. I can guarantee you that you will not see Ahkmed or Muhammed on the Declaration of Independence, or any other Document which established this country. Nor will any of them be sealed, or sworn too on allah. You will find God with a capital G. So you can believe what you want, but we know what ideas our forefathers had when they created this great land.

we can do better than that. We refuge to buy their oil. Screw them. Let them suck their own oil.

Sound good? I guess we want our cake but do not want others to have theirs. I think young black men should be stopped and searched whenever police deems fit since they commit 70 percentage of all crime. We can prevent crime by keeping them under surveillance at all time.

There are way to prevent crime.

We refuge(refuse?)to be bigots/racists because Americans are better than this!
What do you think of all the hate crimes being committed against Indians in Australia?

You need to read a history book "truth" those of you who think Muslims built this country.

Muslims and Mexicans DID NOT build this country.

European immigrants built this country!

We don't need to be tolerant to our enemies.

They can either do "as the Romans do" or get out.

go...

The current president recently had a statement quoted in Newsweek magaazine...went something like " ...of course we realize that Islam has always been a part of the fabric of America.".

I'd wager that you'd disgaree with that whopper !!!

Tony, that is pure 100% B.S. on the part of our Muslim president. Muslims in the U.S. were practically unknown (except students) until the 1990's. I never saw a Burka-clad women in public until a few years ago. Muslims are not responsible for building any part of this country. They should assimilate into the culture and not seek to enforce their Islamic radical law and disgusting culture on all of us. Let them go back to their native land where they belong. We don't want any immigrants that won't learn the English language and abide by the U.S. Constitution and America's laws and culture. Not very PC is it? Liberals be afraid, very afraid. November is coming.

go...

"European immigrants built this country!" i think you forgot about the period in American history called "slavery" where shiploads of Africans were forced from their land of origin, beaten to submission and to forgetting about their past , forced to work for nothing or for scraps....

oh, and let's not forget about the Native Americans who were forced from roaming this land and put on small parcels of land called "reservations" because the European immigrants (some of who were British inmates) needed more space....

but, let's eliminate all foreigners from America. so, where do we start? who was the first illegal immigrant? (see above) - really, people....

we need to study before we spew....

& yes, i am American.

"European immigrants built this country!" with the sweat of the Africans forced into this country and with the blood of Native Americans forced into corners of this country.

Yes, I am American. I know our history. It is not quite pretty.

are you forgetting that it was the blacks who sold blacks into slavery? I abhor slavery but let us not just assign blame to the traders who brought the slaves to America and sold them.

It's way to easy to hurl the 'bigot' label at people.

"Slavery" happened because it happened. It is simply a part of the way things took place as this country developed in the world. We can look back in anger at how unjust it truly was and it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Why worry about the "kkk"? Take a peek at what is going on in Africa these days...slavery is still very much in fashion in several areas there and I don't see the do-gooders of the world doing very much to stop it. I'd bet some 'slaves' there prefer their lot as opposed the the folks in other areas of the continent who are being raped and butchered every day of the week.

Wouldn't having a worldwide effort to stop that be a bit more important than crying in our collective soup about things that took place in this country hundreds of years ago ???

+1, made my day with this post!

man...this is SO scary...but it explains the heavy labored breathing coming from under that burqa at the mall the other day.

when i heard the words, "I am yo Fatha" it really freaked me

http://www.patcondell.net/index.html.

Well said

when i heard the words, "I am yo Fatha" it really freaked me

OR was it I am following the Fatwah

wo...MAYBE it WAS Fatwah!!!

I'm not goin to the mall anymore!

Is this the battle of Tours all over again?

And fangs also in Spain, England, Germany & Denmark. NOW COMING TO THE USA....Just wait, watch and listen. Already happening with this Imam threatening us that if we DO NOT BUILD HIS FRIGGIN' mosque that there could be a price to pay. AND look how our MSM is spinning this story. Oh the appeasing liberal press. BURN THEIR PAPERS & MAGAZINES... DO not buy any of their trash and do NOT TRUST the MSM MEDIA!!!

Why are you here on MSN (not MSM) instead of fox news where you would clearly be happier? It should not take the Imam to tell you that if you violate our constitution there will be consequences. You seem to be all upset about a community center 2 blocks from ground zero. You don't seem to care about the strip club up the street or the off-track betting parlor. Don't forget there were Muslims killed in the twin towers as well. Would you be equally upset about the Catholic Church building a church in Oklahoma City?

We don't want their victory monument here brundo and nobody cares about their stupid haloween costumes.

Why don't you go to Saudi Arabia, maybe you'd be more comfortable there.

This is America and Europeans built this country not a bunch of Darth Vader wannabees from the stone age.

Again this "There were Muslims in the Twin Towers" drivel from brundo. Yes. So what? I'm sure the terrorists weren't aiming to kill them, and if they gave the possibility of religious brethren existing in the towers at all, they probably wrote them off as collateral damage. This line of reasoning is just like saying "Remember, there were white people just like Timothy McVeigh in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building." Although it's terribly sad anyone had to die, orthodox Islam has given shaheed (martyr) status to the Muslim victims. I didn't word this the best, I am angry and my English fails when I have too much feeling to put into words.

Aiser Gad, I'm quite sure that the Muslim bastards in those airplanes on 9/11 did not give a damn if they killed every Muslim in NYC if it furthered their goals. Muslims are scum and liberals who support their radical Muslim agenda are also scum and anti-American. I am appalled that liberals seem to support every anti-American agenda that comes along just because they want to be different from the majority and show us how superior they are to us.

Greek Prince, I know the hijackers didn't care about the Muslims. I understand their agenda. I have heard some imams speak to say that the Muslims who died in WTC and Pentagon are now martyrs in paradise, and the members of the mosque were in agreement that the victims "went down for the cause [of Islam]".

I wish to say I am liberal on many issues. Homosexual marriage, abortion, no school prayer, universal government health care reform...many things I am liberal about...BUT I am not as naive as these other liberals who lump Islam into the big happy melting pot of faiths. I know what Islam is. I was raised Muslim in Egypt in the 40s-50s. I know that jihad isn't some "personal, spiritual" struggle--it is outright war with unbelievers. And jihad is the duty of every Muslim, so what do you think this means? Although every Muslim might not be a terrorist, a lot of moneys they give to Muslim charities go to terrorism, this is well-known. And a Muslim will never tell an outsider that they condone terrorism, but the Quran gives special permission that Muslims may lie to protect the faith. I was in a Middle Eastern grocery near Laurel, Maryland on 9/11. The TV was on, and in that store seven or eight men shouting "Allahu akbar!" God is the greatest, common battle cry or cheer.

I might have to start voting Republican, I am not sure. The Islamic threat is scarier than the loss of other things I believe in.

I have actually spent quite a bit of time in Morocco and contrary to your characterization, it's a fascinating country with a wealth of history and an incredible mix of cultures. The people that I met on my travels were friendly and often generous to a fault. I never heard anyone make hateful comments about the west or its culture. Most of its people are multi-lingual and the language of commerce is French. And of course, therein lies a story since the French claimed the Magreb as its terratory for much of the past century. Indeed they considered Alegeria to be part of France! So if they have a large North African population today, then that is a result of their colonial aspirations in the recent past.

Incidentally very few moslem women wear the full burka - probably less than 1%. Head scarves are common and actually look quite attractive. They also fulfill the useful function of protecting the head from the sun. In a democracy we usually have the freedom to wear whatever we choose. Perhaps we advocating giving up those rights?

With respect to the 8th century, I wonder how much you actually know - but that's another discussion.

Sanandrian, finally, a voice of reason!

Right! Tres bon!

Islamophobia? No, fed-up-itis ! Cater, cater, cater...tiptoe,tiptoe,tiptoe ! FINIS !

It is a security risk, if you were a police officer would you feel comfortable walking up to that car door. I know when i was in Saudi, I for my own safety considered every woman a security risk. Unless I could see her face, because of training I learned to look at the eyes. Eyes are a dead give away.

well said, PuCkiE.

I wish they would ban those white knobby knees here in the states, but there is no accounting for bad taste.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin

You may know him as one of the men that drafted the Constitution.

and the sandals with white socks should also be banned.

As should women wearing pantsuits and sneakers. It's a sin girlfriend.

Benjamin Franklin didn't have to worry about G*D D@MN fools that board planes or buses and blow everyone away (the first Muslim suicide bombing on a plane was TWA Flight 841 with 88 lives lost in 1974 !!!) or turn them into WMD's, or that walk into a crowd of people and BLOW THE $H*T out of everyone. It's not giving up "Essential Liberty" TO HAVE SOME F**KING COMMON SENSE when dealing with Radical and Fundamentalist Islam !!!

I agree with this 100%.

I'm curious: Where was all the Islamophobia and crazy fear of Muslims when Bush told us they weren't our enemy? How come it didn't begin until we got a Democratic Black President? I mean, 9/11 was 9 years ago, why are the Wacky White Christians getting so angry after all this time?

Don't anyone answer that, we all know the real reason.

I assume you don't know any muslims.

clotho - i am so sick and tired of your nonsense. You are easily one of the biggest idiots that posts on these boards.

And for your information, most conservatives have a brain in their heads and don't blindly agree with everything their esteemed leaders say. Unlike, for instance, most left-wing nutjobs like you.

Machinhead, great post! You hit the ball out of the park. Don't think you will ever convince the liberal scum about this message, but the majority of Americans have figured it out on their own. Muslims that will not assimilate into our culture are not wanted. Not very PC is it? Sorry you pussie libs, but that's the way it is.

This issue isn't liberal vs conservative; it's about common sense. I'm in favor of what France is doing, mostly for the security issues. But aside from that, burqas deny women's individuality, perpetuate the age-old nonsense that women are property, and essentially hold them hostage. That's liberal, not conservative. Freedom of religion and less government interference sound exactly like teabonics these days and very conservative. Labeling something "liberal" just because you disagree is convenient but it looks like what it is -- a knee-jerk reaction without taking the trouble to think.

clotho, a lot of those wacky white Christians voted for the Black Democrat President, although I doubt you have to worry about that in 2012 unless you "hope" he makes some "changes" !! I won't go the name calling route only point out that many of us have been on the attack against RADICAL and FUNDAMENTALIST Islam all along!!

There is nothing moderate about Muslims who wear facial veils or Burqqas and I have no problem with the wearing of their Ninja suits being restricted !! If they want to wear them in private or to worship fine, but not in crowds in public. There are plenty of legitimate security concerns that the wearing of facial veils and Burrqas causes. If they want to live where it is the norm,fine, but it is not the norm in modern,civilized countries where men and women are equals (or at least working toward it) !!!

We are becoming France.Thanks Libs

Like I said....They have taken the fight into the MSM Media expecting sympathy & picking sides like in a street ball game. This is their plan. They very well could win that war on words.

In the US you cannot wear a mask in public, so why should this be an issue here? Covering your face for any reason should be against the law. Whose to know whether you're a man or woman up to no good?

agreed!!

I'm with you MG

Alright,

I have read every single post here, and just have to speak up.

My husband is French, born and raised. We spent the last summer there together, where I met many Muslims, some of whom are good friends to my husband.
I am pleased that France is passing this law. I do not believe it to be an infringement of religous freedoms as 1) it was never a religious law to wear it 2) Freedom never meant that you can do whatever you want. It means you are able to speak up for your beliefs, and live them, as long as it does not trespass on the freedom and safety of others.

Many of you are cheering for France, and I really appreciate that. France is a strong country, and while I do not agree with all of its politics or actions, they are concerned about safety, their own constitution, and with providing the guidance and restrictions that a country would destroy itself without.

If we were to have the "freedoms" so many of you want, such as no clothing, guns, etcetera, without restrictions, there would be no more freedom at all, it would become a lawless, dangerous, unproductive world.

I am not against all Muslims, each of them is different in their actions and beliefs. What I stand against is the idea that simply because they are a "minority," they can use that to gain pity and special treatment. The so-called President Obama is a biased, dishonest, inexperienced man who uses all of his 'minorities' to get votes (which are steeply declining.)

He is Muslim, but I don't care. What I care about is how he uses that.

The French are defending their country, just as any nation would or should. I have seen Muslim residents of France walking the streets in shirts with the geographical outline of France plastered over with the various flags of Muslim countries. These certain people are not hiding their desire to take over nations.

In my opinion, unless you can abide by the laws of foreign countries, don't move there, don't benefit from the privileges, and try to improve your own people.

I agree. The so called president Obama is a muslim . He said in his Cairo speech last year, that the United States government would go to court to protect muslim women's right to wear the hijad. Would sure like to know what he would do to protect their right to wear the burqa . On the other hand, I probably wouldn't like it all.

Any American leader who would turn over one of our States to the UN for human rights abuse is not worthy of being president . Even if he were legally president, which he isn't.

Isn't it interesting that the countries who will be determining the fate of Arizonia on those abuse charges include: China, Cuba, Libya, Iran, Iraq and Pakistan? Not one of those countries care at all about human rights in their own countries.

By sending that 29 page report against Arizonia, he broke constitutional law for at least the 14th time.

I am glad to see that France decided to put a stop to that full face veil. I would like to think our country would too when the occasion arises, but as long as that muslim lives in the White House , I don't think it will happen

Yeah walk into a bank wearing that get up and see where you get.

I think they have the same god as you and I, They just worship in a different manner. Maybe white guys in rebel flag t-shirts is scary to children. People should be able to wear what they want to, how they want to ;within reason. If a police officer asks you to remove your veil, You should oblige and not use it as a reason to conceal your identity. This all stems from a case where the subject was sited for wearing the veil while driving, the officer stating it impeded her vision. To deny a religious right because of that is reckless. It only takes one stone to mark a path.

adm2point0, Allah is not the God of Christianity. Allah is a man-made creation. No matter what Muslims say, Allah is a false god and their "religion" is more of a political theocracy than it is a genuine religion. It is a culture of hate and intolerance to infidels. (If you are not a Muslim, you are an infidel.) Does that sound like any religion you would want to be a part of?

Who or what they are praying to is not the same GOD that Jews and Christians Pray to. Making you a descendent of Abraham does not mean that you worship the same GOD that Abraham did. Jews await the Messiah. Christians Believe that the Messiah came and fulfilled the Jewish Scriptures. Judaism stands alone. Christianity cannot stand without Judaism.

I agree with a lot of the comments here..but some i dont..like the one that said it must be hot ..yea if its all in dark colors even in light colored its hot..plus the veil would be hard to keep fromthe eyes being blocked..its hot everywhere and i think its in their head that its cooler. If its not a muslim way they are not forced to wear it then its their husband that makes them..I get hot just seeing them look like this..But a womens beauty is to be seen not hidden. and then you have the ones that say let them wear it. free to wear what they want..its not freedom its controlled. am I right? just my opionion

When I lived in Houston some years ago, my next door neighbors were muslims. It gets so very hot there you simply swelter. Many times I watched her husband and son enjoying the swimming pool, while she and her daughter were robed and wore the hijad. They always looked so unhappy that I finally asked her what she thought about the males wearing bathing suits and enjoying the cool water while she and her daughter sweltered. She replied that they had no choice as her husband was her ruler and would not allow any freedom at all. They must wear all those robes and the hijad. She said that at times , they got so overheated in them she was sure she would die. She was much too afraid of him to try to leave him..said the entire muslim community would disdain her and she could be killed or mutilated if she tried to leave. I still pray for her and hope she did finally leave.

Because as they are saying it's about CHOICE. I don't agree with having to wear those things either. These poor women in 105 degree heat covered head to toe. jeez that's gotta be hot.

I know this sounds dumb, but the women Ive talked to have told me that they are cooler. Something about the shade from direct sunlight.

Something about, "if they said otherwise, and it got back to their husband they would be hiding their face for a different reason. Are you really this dense PuCkiE." They are controlled. Many are beaten and tortured regularly. Sex is not an option to them when their husband wants it he takes it, as an Allah given right. If I had been tortured, molested, and beat down like these women have, I might say what I thought my abuser would want to here too. Don't live in a dream world. The only reason they might want to leave it on is to cover the scars and bruises of years of abuse both mental and physical.

r-i-i-i-ght, don'tbe. Because the Muslim religion is ALL about freedom and choices.

Right.

See what happens if you wear a white sheet in the mall. It is no different than a Muslim woman wearing a Burka in public. They could have an vest full of explosives and an AK 47 under those flowing robes. Do you want the U.S. to be like Israel was with terrorist attacks a daily event?

should trench coats be banned as well? Or how about long skirts? Baggy clothes in general? I agree that face coverings pose identification risks but is it necessary to slam every Muslim who wears a Burqa? Their has go to be a way for people to get their point across without being rude.

Lilly you have a valid point...to an extent. My son actually owns a trench coat, because we live in a very cold wet and snowy area of the country. When it snows sideways at 20-40 mph in the morning, I expect him to be able to keep dry and not arrive at school soaking wet (he is 17). They have asked in the past that he remove his coat and allow it to be inspected if asked...no problem there either. At issue is the fact that these people cannot by practice, remove their coverings to allow them to be inspected. Why they would wish to have that happen in fact is beyond me....I don't consider myself a xenophobe by any means but if ANYONE, and I mean anyone, approaches me or my family hooded and covered from head to foot, they are getting shot. I am not playing these games with anyone. And who is to say some crazy American, or Frenchman, or anyone, can't then hide themselves under such a garment to commit crimes? Why do you think it's a bad idea to wear a Halloween mask into a bank??? Not because we hate kids who do Halloween, it's that the mask can be hiding identity in the event of a crime. Not just Muslims could be expected to wear such a thing. Any criminal could take advantage of it.

@ Jimmy the Goon...you know I do know a couple Muslim women, (American by birth) and while they were VERY intolerant of other religious views, they were certainly not afraid of their husbands or anyone else. They were quite vociferous in fact, and if anyone had bruises in the family it was probably their poor husbands. I think it goes by culture more than religion regarding beating women. And unfortunately I have never met a Muslim with a "live and let live" attitude. It's more "You will accept Islam or some day you will die for refusing it". So sorry gang, keep the blankets off your heads, and if you don't like being uncovered don't go out in public. Or move to Saudi or some other nice place where it is a law that women wear the veil. (And before I'm accused of being one-way, I would like to point out that if I were to visit Saudi Arabia or anywhere else where being covered is the law, I would abide by the laws of the land I was visiting. If I don't like it, I can damned well stay home myself.)

What about the traditional nun's habit? Most of the face is seen, but not much else. just an observation..

yes she could hide a bomb under it, and dont forget popes hat you could hide a wmd shell under some of them....:)

excellent point tired, forgot all about the pope! That guy has mass destruction written all over him!

Anyone choosing to live this lifestyle has my full support.

They do not have mine. Muslims are all about "peace and tolerance" - until they a reach a criticial mass in whatever country/region they have invaded. Islam is not just a religion - it is an ideeology and the two cannot be separated.

The truth shall set you free, Islam is a way of life under strict Muslim laws, The U.S, better pay attention to what is going on with France and be ready to act.

I think what you're saying here, chuck, is you have no spine.

I don't think it's his spine that is missing.

fiscalconservative - They do not have mine. Muslims are all about "peace and tolerance" - until they a reach a criticial mass in whatever country/region they have invaded. Islam is not just a religion - it is an ideeology and the two cannot be separated.

Exactly, why do you think that beheadings and stonings are forms of capital punishment in these nations? They must control their people with complete fear, look at someone wrong and they cut your eyes and tounge out. They befriend until the time is right to sucker-punch them. A.M.A.G.

I like you your good at explaining how brutal these hidden face masks are cheers mate.