True, Cassandra. But they are at least in keeping with the moral compass of their ancestor who attempted to use the murder of an unarmed teenager as a stepping stone to his own higher aspirations.

Without Billy The Kid, Garrett would be just another unheard of frontier lawman. Without the OK Corral, who would know who the Earps were? The Little Big Horn made both Custer and Sitting Bull who they are. Hickok did what he did all by his lonesome self. Wyatt Earp called him the deadliest pistoleer he'd ever seen, said he could draw and fire in the wink of an eye. Who speaks for the kid? Pardoning him doesn't tarnish Garrett's reputation in any way. He did what he did and that's all anybody need know. In today's time, the Kid would be sent to a Juvenile home, his record expunged, and set free at 21. Yes, and that's for murder.

First lets take a look at how it all started. According to history, Billy the Kid was working under legal autonomy of the Governor as an agent and or someone else in power. Unfortunately, Billy ended up on the wrong side of the barrells. If this is true, and I totally understand what it's like to work under autonomy by an official, then he absolutely should be pardoned no matter which way history took Billy thereafter. Billy would not be the first or the last to work under such an unbrella of autonomy and he wasn't the last. It's really easy working as an agent (officially, unoficially) for that agent to make various mistakes for any reasons and there are few laws to protect such an agent, when so few know of the agreement between a person and someone in power and the reputation of the agent is involved. It's so easy say when a regular citizen is visited by a special agent of say a US President to take down say someone like a major foriegn diplomat if that diplomat is say smuggling massive quantities of illegal drugs such as cocaine into the USA to be sold tothe general public, or say superimposed and superaddictive drugs that are meant to target say celebrities. That person given autonomy must at the risk of his own life set out and do their duty and if they are killed and nobody knew, they will be forever forgotten and their reputations smeared forever. Becuase National Interests are involved, this must be done as such a secretive way as possible, So when the citizen is visited say in the hallway next to a room full of agents are having a meeting and ask to wait in the hallway and an agent from the President appears and swears that person in under autonomy, that citizen can only work with the education level he already has, or as a non pofressional who is bound to make certain mistakes while in the action of performing their duties as asked to do. Billy the Kid should in fact be completely forgiven in every way if this was the case. As it turns out, Officer Garrett I'm sure must have suspected as such that Billy the Kid was acting under autonomy and continued his friendship knowing how Billy was railroaded by that very same person in power who gave Billy the Kid his autonomy and letting him hang. That is in no way justice and considering Billy the Kid was in a war, anything goes so to speak. Billy really believed he had autonomy and in each case was only acting in defense of his own life which he should have had a right to do regardless of who was trying to kill him, or especially a governor who tries to renegotiate after mistakes are made is wrong as well by the person accepting autonomy. Please believe me in that I have in fact seen this type of situation happen in real life. Autonomy means that person cannot be brought to justice regardless as long as they are forthcoming in the evidence and information needed by the person in power which I see that Billy did in fact try to do what he was told. Mistakes happen but we can't have autonomy unless the person given autonomy is held completely harmless of his actions in any way. Billy the Kid also had the responsibility under autonomy to protect his own life if not for himself, but because he held vital information that must be given to the next person higher up in power above the governor, until after the moment he is completely heard and the autonomy ends. Someone given autonomy must be given full credibility as well.

At no time did that make any sense whatsoever..........

Yes it did. I suspect the same, too. You know, there are newspaper accounts of how Billy as a corpse looked Mexican. Those papers, based on one paper's interview with Garrett, reported that Billy had grown a beard and stained his skin brown trying to evade the law. Well, seems to me the more likely reason the corpse looked Mexican would be because the corpse was Mexican.

The problem with that argument is, contrary to the glamorized, romanticized movie versions of Billy's life, Garrett and Billy were not bosom buddies. They were acquainted but hardly good friends. They met across card tables in saloons and traded money back and forth. (By all accounts, Billy was a better card player and probably relieved Garrett of more than his share of $$). Although they might recognize each other on sight and share pleasant conversation in a bar or on a street corner, the two never rode together as companions or compatriots. At the onset of the Lincoln County Wars, Garrett sided with one faction while Billy, probably only about 16 at the time, had been taken under the wing of one of the opposing landowners. This pitted the two against each other more strenuously than a game of cards could ever have done.

Garrett and 'The Kid' not being close friends, Garrett had nothing to gain by lying about whether he had killed Billy and everything to lose if it should come out that he had not.

Then the Garrett family shouldn't have any problem with exhuming Billy the Kid & his mother to confirm the correct person was shot... unless of course they know something to the contrary.

It's not about the Kid, or Garrett; it's all about a headline for Richardson. For a change, he'll get a headline that's not about his corrupt administration and pay-to-play.

Still...if a crook is to be pardoned, then it might as well be by another crook!

Jack, take your grips about Richardson to another forum. That is not what this one is about. No one cares what your personal opinion of Bill Richardson is. This is about Billy the Kid and Pat Garrett.

Jack, you would do well to read up on the Lincoln County Wars and Billy's actual involvement therein. Not a major player or a ringleader, he was nothing more than another pawn in the land wars that are now so irrevocably tied to his name.

Oh, yeah. And the petition for the pardon did not originate with Richardson. It's been proposed by numerous persons and groups for many ... many years. The governor (Wallace/Richardson types or otherwise) does not generally initiate such actions but only makes decisions on those actions presented by other bodies of the government.

oh vince, don't have a hissy. if it were a rep gov, you'd be all over smart ass comments.

richardson would pardon the kid if he were juan the kid so he could pander to the latino vote, kinda like the big o and the whole az law issue.

I couldn't agree with you more. What a waste of time.

Trivial? Pointless? A waste of time?

What if it was a member of your family that had been promised a pardon in exchange for turning state's witness and then, after he had testified for the government was told, 'ehh, I changed my mind'?

Justice, even over a century delayed, is never trivial nor pointless nor a waste of time.

The cost to taxpayers in this matter is approximately zero. You must be a really fun person to live with if your only concern in every matter is how much is this costing me.

kamudi I am guessing that you maybe don't pay much in the way of taxes.

I can not believe Richardson is waisting his time with this. New Mexicans have more important things to worry about. Should he really concern himself with giving pardon to a person who would not benefit from it anyway. Look at things like the literacy rates or teen pregnancy rates in NM. Look at the unemployment rates in NM. Richardson could use his last couple of months in office much more wisely. If there were no problems in NM, he could waste his time if he chose to do so, but he has much bigger fish to fry.

Do you really think Billy the Kids cares at this point? I doubt it. Quit trying to get your name in history books, Richardson. Do something productive for the people of New Mexico.!

... taxes! taxes! Billy the Kid will never rest in peace at this rate!

Isn't this a waste of the governor's time? He has been dead for over a century so who cares?

IMO 34 - I think the last eight years has been a complete waste. Let him worry about this. Give him something shiny to occupy his time so he cannot mismanage the budget anymore.

LOL. You're so right about that. Thanks for the chuckle.

Why is no pardon warranted at all?

MacTavish, here's a bit of history for you to chew on.

Lew Wallace, (the author of 'Ben Hur') was governor of the territory at the time. Following the Lincoln County Wars, there was an amnesty agreement that allowed for anyone involved in the LCW to receive complete pardon if they were not wanted for any crimes not related to the LCW. This included 'The Kid'. Furthermore, Wallace made a deal with Billy, personally, to grant him a full pardon if he turned state's evidence against three other fellows wanted for far more heinous crimes than anything Billy ever did. After Billy's testimony in court putting away the accused, Wallace backed out on his promise to Billy. (Hence Icarus' comments on Richardson honoring the agreement).

Truth of the matter is, Billy was really a pretty small potato in the LCW and, as a criminal, generally speaking, he totally sucked. He had been known to steal a cow for food and, later, send money to the owner whose cow he stole. During one jail escape, he stole a horse and two days later, it was returned to its owner after Billy had reached a safe destination.

Billy's reputation says that he killed 21 men, one for every year of his life. Well, here's another revelation... Billy is actually only known to have killed three men (the first when he was only about fourteen years old, and in self-defense.) His second and third victims were also, possibly, a matter of self-defense. Billy had been made the target of one faction in the LCW. This particular faction had the sheriff bought and paid for and in their proverbial hip pocket. Thus, what the boss said, the sheriff did and what the sheriff said, his deputies did. Billy was, essentially, the face of the LCW and a political scapegoat. He was also not 21 when he died but more on that in a moment.

Now, as to the question of Pat Garrett ... Contrary to the Kristofferson 'Billy The Kid' movie, which was a highly romanticized, hardly accurate accounting of the incidents surrounding Billy's death, Garrett and 'The Kid' were acquaintances, but hardly friends. Garrett had lived a rather unsavory life, himself, until he developed designs on being a politician. He convinced the governor to appoint him as a U.S. marshall for the territory with the promise to 'clean up the town'. (and haven't we all heard that before?) It appears Garrett's primary purpose may have been to 'bring in 'the Kid'. Billy primarily made his living after the LCW as a gambler, and probably a rather good one. He learned to play all the popular card games of the time from his step father, Henry Antrim, when he was probably no more than four or five, so he grew up learning cards the way some kids grow up learning to throw and catch a ball. We know he was good enough to beat Garrett at more than one hand and embarrassed Garrett in more ways than at the card table.

Garrett made many attempts to bring down Billy and he had no qualms about who died in his attempt. At one point, he is reputed to have spotted someone leaving a house of which Billy was part owner and ordered his men to shoot. "It's him!" he is said to have shouted. "Shoot him! Shoot him!" (Among other things, Garrett was, apparently, not too good with a gun and so let him men do his dirty work.)

Then there is the concern of Garrett's granchildren and great-grandchildren over tarnishing their ancestor's reputation. The truth is, Garrett's reputation is something of a fraud. Even at the time of Billy's death, Garrett was attempting to manilpulate the system. When the death certificate was submitted, he ordered it changed to show: 1) Billy was shot from the front; 2) he had a gun; 3) he ws 21 years old.

Research by multiple, independant sources has revealed Billy was, by witness accounts, shot in the back. He was carrying a knife (with which he had intended to cut a slab of beef from a side hanging in Pete Maxwell's barn). Lastly, and most damaging to Garrett's aspirations to political elevation, Billy was, in all likelihood, only about 18 or 19. But it would not bode well for Garrett's future in politics if it became known that he had gunned down an unarmed teenager in the back, would it?

The last nail in Garret's coffin, so to speak, is the highly biased and romanticized novel he wrote (actually, it was ghost written because, unlike Billy, Garrett was not very well educated and couldn't spell worth a darn! (And yet another reason he bore a grudge against Billy))

For a real laugh, you might try reading it, though you might get bored by the time you get through the title - the full title, that is, which rambles on (and on and on) to wit:

"The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid.
The noted desperado of the southwest, whose deed of daring and blood made his name a terror in New Mexico, Arizona and Northern Mexico.
By Pat F. Garrett, sheriff of Lincoln Co., N.M. by whom he was finally hunted down and captured by killing him.
A faithful and interesting narrative."

Yeah. That's the real title.

Garrett had plenty to lose if he came out on the short end of the death of Billy the Kid. He certainly did not want to go down in history as the man who gunned down a teenager in cold blood. As it was, Billy had more fans than Garrett could imagine and his run at politics ended before it got started. His employment as a U.S. marshall was gone before his dubious "authentic" book on Billy was published and he spent many years returning to his life as a gambler. His later years were spent selling real estate and bragging to anyone who would listen, of his fame as the man who brought down that 'notorious desperado, Billy the Kid'.

Garrett's family, of course, would idolize him and accept, without question, his account of the events of Billy's death. But, even at that, in years past, even family members had varying accounts of the events. I guess that's the problem with manufacturing truths. It's so hard to keep up with which truths were told to whom.

But, regardless of Garrett's less than upstanding part in Billy's death, the governor of the territory promised - in writing, I might add - to grant Billy full pardon in exchange for his testimony. After Billy fulfilled his part of the deal, Wallace reneged. Obviously Lew Wallace was something of a scumbag himself but, that cannot forgive the fact that Billy WAS promised a full pardon and, had Wallace fulfilled his end of the deal, the two sheriffs Billy is known to have shot and killed, would not have died by his hand.

So, again, I ask you MacTavish. Why is no pardon warranted? Do you ascribe to the policy that governments are entitled to lie to get what they want and ignore their promises after?

Bravo wordsmith! You beat me to it! I was going to respond to MacTavish, but you've pretty much said everything I would have. I believe the Kid should get pardoned. I hope Richardson does it. The Garrett family seems to care more about their name and fame than they do the truth. Apples don't fall to far from the tree.......

Psolaris, I sent an e-mail to Gov. Richardson to that effect. I would encourage everyone to do so! He's easy to find, just Google Gov. Bill Richardson New Mexico. They even kindly provide a link to a contact e-mail.

Wordsmith you go on my man....speak it as it is! The sad fact is why the family even suspects it would tarnish the name...must mean there is a reason it can be tarnished.

Just like a certain president of the USA was never in the rough riders or went up San Juan hill......but history always goes to the victors, right or wrong, true or not. Or one president who died of blood letting for syphillis, we never get told the real truth.

Bravo, wordsmith. Well stated. And I could not possibly agree more with EVERYTHING that was in your post.

wordsmith thanks being short and to the point. you guys are just glorifying an outlaw, maybe you saw that emilio estevez movie one too many times

Right on wordsmith! I am a member of the Lincoln County Regulators, SASS group in Ruidoso NM. You have set the record straight!

Agreed!!!!!!!!!!! Billy should have been pardoned many decades ago as was promised. For the Garret's to deny the rights of the law, in an effort to maintain a romantized image of a grandfather is unjustified and downright wrong.

You can not gain idenity based on a facade of facts. It is possible and likely that you grandpa shot the wrong man. Thus hanging onto falsehood for the sake of pride alone is an injustice to both men, as your pride is based on fraudulent information and beliefs!

After reading what you wrote thewordsmith, I agree that a full pardon should be granted. I don't feel that it should be denied to uphold the Garrett family. If that is all they have to live for than they need to find a new purpose in life. Maybe they should do some studying on their on family member.

two thumbs up to wordsmith!!!!

also what do they mean by tarnish their name...? does anyone even really know who they are or care even...? do they put "my great grandfather killed billy the kid" on their resumes or something?

Billy was promised a pardon, so he should get one.

GREAT history lesson. I am constantly amazed how "our" history we were taught in school, that was supposed to serve us latter in life has was so destorted and in some cases a lie!

Well put wordsmith, and I am also glad to here that you have sent an e-mail to Richardson. I will be doing so soon myself. I enjoy history as well and have always thought that Billy had gotten the 'short end of the stick'.

Excellent points.

Why try to do anything at this date. Anyway, didn't Billy actually movre to Hico, Texas, assume the name Brushy Bill and live to old age??? LOL

i agree

LOL indeed cats16. Was said he even had the scars to prove it???!!!! but honestly the only way to be sure it is Billy in the grave is to DNA test him and his mom.......... another chapter to be written???

Can you tell me how President Obama is remotely related to this story? Are you so obsessed with him that you have to bring him into every story and every forum you go to? I suppose you just can't accept reality, but go gripe about your personal feelings for President Obama in a forum in which he is a topic. Or I suppose you are going to try to blame him for Pat Garrett shooting Billy the Kid 130 years ago. He was really the reason Lew Wallace reneged on the pardon, right? President Obama contacted him and told him to withdraw it. You, sir, are an idiot.

And, Vince, you sir are a riot. I love it! Thanks.

Oh! Wasn't Obama actually the one responsible for the St. Valentine's Day Massacre? And ... and ... AHHHHH hahahaha! Too sweet. Thanks for my chuckle for the day.

vince everyone knows that Bush did it !!!! just must hurt now to see the shoe on the other foot LOL

I believe the shoe in question was thrown.

I thought you didn't give a crap? Weird.

And yet you took time to read it and comment on it...

I care but thats cause billy the kid is the hottest renegade ever. Also people who like to learn about the past they would be into this story. BUUUUTTT i can bet you all billy the kid dont give a beaver dam. I mean his name will be forever written in history books and the guy who shot him well his name will be there too but more so in the fine print. So just let the family be all happy and dancing around a bonfire going YEEHAW were the good guys great Grand babies. Billy knows the truth god rest his soul.

Garrick, the descendants believe their entire family reputation is at stake. Odd since great-grandaddy's reputation was full of holes and covered in dirt to begin with.

(And do you mean to say my marriage isn't less valid because two of my gay friends are getting married? Well, fancy that! I guess the next you'll try to tell us is that a person's gender identity is meaningless against their quality as a human being. Like I'd rather have one compassionate, generous, intelligent gay friend than a dozen straight rapists, pedophiles, and drug addicts! But that's for another forum.)

Just an addition to my previous remark: I hope the governor does not grant the pardon.

HM

Thank you for some clarity. I, too, am of that understanding, and while I don't begrudge the movie folks for painting fanciful illusions of the characters, government folks should stick to reality.

i hope this was a self study project and did not receive financial aid to go to school to study billy. I would hate to know that someone wasted even more tax dollars for something that amounts to a personal hobby.

H Marsh, I, too, am a serious student of, not just Billy the Kid, but the southwest of the 19th century overall, with a special interest in the LCW, Billy the Kid, AND territorial governor Wallace. And you. and your argument, are correct, to a point.

No, Billy was NOT, as you say, a genuinely bad fellow. As I pointed out in previous posts, he was not guilty of all of the things of which he was accused and often, was accused of the deaths men shot by Garrett's men. (This fact was born out by later accounts from witnesses on both sides of the war.)

The reason Gov. Wallace did not follow through with the pardon was three-fold: 1) the Kid continued to break the law after the offer was made; 2) the DA at the time would not go along with it; and 3) the territorial law at the time stated that the Governor could only "recommend" a pardon to the president, not grant one.

1) "Billy continued to break the law after the offer was made."
Pretty impossible since he was incarcerated for that period until after his testimony and Wallace reneged on their agreement.

2) "The DA wouldn't go along with it."
The DA not only had little say in the matter, he was in the pocket of the Santa Fe Ring and would, of course, be opposed to any leniency to Billy.

3) "The territorial law at the time stated that the Governor could only "recommend" a pardon to the president, not grant one."
Garfield was actually sympathetic toward Billy and would likely have willingly granted pardon were he requested to do so, however; the president's power extended to federal crimes not local ones, which this would have been. Wallace granted amnesty to countless others involved in the LCW but Billy had been made the scapegoat and, therefore, there was a lot of resistance to any leniency to him.

Now, I'm not saying Billy was a saint. Far from it. But he was nowhere near as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. Nor was he near as good as Hollywood might like to portray him. Like all of us, he was somewhere in the middle.

Doesn't matter what the reason is why they didn't, a written promise of pardon is a contract. This aggrement should bind them. The people who are elected to uphold the law are also to abide by it and support truth, not their personal believes and aggendas....like most crooked politicians do anyway. Had this happened in early american history, he would have been pardoned as promised. Truth is part of justice.

On a Garrett note, he originally had befriended Billy, guilt for killing Billy the way he did brought his downfall, and his false boasts/pride brought his death. Since he was murdered with "the wrong gun" in his hands.

Billy the Kid, et al, was/were clearly not "all there"...just like our politicians!

TELL THAT TO FOLKS THAT HAVE DIED IN JAIL FOR CRIME THEY DID NOT COMMIT,,and their families spend yrs getting over-turned,,,can u spell,,,DNA! ??

not to mention the ones falsley accused that are released daily,now,due to DNA!

knowhatimean !

Actually the Jesse James conspiracy may be true. Their was a show on the History channel about weather Jesse James hid his gold for the Knights of the Golden Circle.. Jesse James hid his gold in places for the Knights of the Golden Table to pick up. They were a group that pretty much wanted the south to be independent from the north. He faked his death with Robert Ford by killing someone else in his place. After that Robert was pardoned by the same Missouri Govenour but if you want to know more just watch the show.

I agree. I believe Garrett was a killer too. Neither is a hero.

I agree, there is no "honor" if you shot someone in the back.

I just want to amend my last statement that of course it's better to get it right when possible, but in this particular case it's a little silly to go back without new evidence and try to change the history books.

LOL Bobby.

lol...very clever Bobby Brady....however, the outlaw you were obsessed with was Jesse James....not Billy the Kid. :)

oops, well we were doing a lot of drugs back then so sometimes my memory is a little foggy

How much time is being used? How many tax dollars? People are complaining about time and tax dollars being "wasted" on this, but no one has given an amount. It doesn't seem to me to meet with a few people and discuss a pardon would involve that much time or money. I think some people just like to complain.

Wasted tax dollars is the theme of the Tea Party crowd and has to be mentioned in every situation involving the government. I think that by wasted they mean any government spending that doesn't directly benefit themselves.

Kamudi-2083787
That is not correct; you obviously are absolutely clueless for what the party stands for when you make ridiculous states which just made. My concern about you is you are so lacking in knowledge and common sense that you must be a liberal Democrat. The Tea Party has not benefited from any legislation but is looking to insure that government spending does not escalate and government does not intrude into every aspect of our lives, just look at the dinosaur of healthcare bill, waste of money and an infringement on our rights.

Does some reading instead of watching Keith Olbermann. By the way I saw on TV last night and I think he was going to cry of the gay marriage decision in California, he kept talking about "love" etc, in only the manner in which he can present nonsense.

Any way back to Kamudi-2083787 - sounds like a prison number - read some books on the subject of the Tea Party; we are working to keep delusional people from losing your freedom. Be well and think long and hard.

The tea party is a bunch of lunatic ignoramuses. You complain about the minutia of the tax problem instead of addressing the much larger amounts going down the drain. Namely, two useless wars, both of which were supposedly "won" in 2006. And our over engorged Military spending, including maintaining troops and bases all over the world as if we were its master. And how many billions are we still giving Israel in exchange for nothing every year? They are a real country right? They don't need to be propped up and armed like back in the 50s anymore. You people sit there and @!$%# about the mere 1% of our expenses because your health company corporate leaders want the health care overhaul repealed (that they already managed to get watered down quite a bit in congress, the "make everyone get health care" part was their idea) so they can continue fleecing the american people. Those corporations payed for tea party express and for you to hold your rallies so that it looks like normal working people are against the idea of cheaper health care. Your protests helped destroy the public option that would have kept the health companies in check. If you would have protested the opposite we'd all be better off. You have nothing to be proud of.

The elderly among you are mainly protesting because they don't want to pay any taxes at all... Now that they don't make any money at all... And while I sympathize with that, they should just say it out right instead of pretending that our country can lower taxes for Everyone. Generation X and the millennials are having to pay the S.S. for the baby boomers and the WWII generation now. We are having to pay the bulk of the taxes, and we know where the bulk of the money is going very well, I just told you where its going. And there are way fewer jobs because you didn't care about the industry going overseas back in the 80s and 90s when you could have protested like this back then and done some good. You selfish people wanted no govt regulations to business. Look at the result. This economy is your fault and so is the gulf oil disaster.

Also, Olberman may just be a news commentator, but at least he's not a mere teleprompter reader like at Faux news, and he also writes his own opinion pieces. He has also done way more for american health care than you. I am sad that someone like you can only snark at gays getting their rights, but since tea partiers are rumored to be biggots I am not surprised.

Can we at least wait until he's been dead over 100 years first?

Manson was never offered a pardon. Nor did he deserve one. Had he been, even if I disagree with it, the government should have kept their word. How can we abide under the governing of people we can't trust or have faith in?

Because of all thats going on we need something to take our minds off of todays problems. Lighten up. One just can't go around being made at the world around them 24 hours aday. And those of us who come from this part of the country do find it interesting because its about the west, our great western past.

I agree with Clawed Monet. Who the *blank* cares? These people just want press and notoriety from their old dead family. Why don't they spend their time contributing to society instead of wasting their time with this crap.

He escaped because they were going to murder him ...