What are some of the other reasons?

People that thing you shoudln't bring guns to national parks, this is why you do. Survival of the fittest mean being the fittest to survive, and since we have tools that bears don't, we should use them for protection. Only idiots don't think of that when going camping in the woods.

or maybe we could just leave the animals alone?

I'm not sure how a gun would have helped the lady who woke up to find a bear already biting her. It sounds like she did the absolute right thing given the situation.

"Survival of the fittest mean being the fittest to survive..."

That doesn't mean carrying a gun to kill animals that are in their natural habitat. Ever think that we shouldn't be interfering with the bear's natural instinct to survive in the first place?

You wouldn't sleep in the wilderness even though these things happen only 2-3 times a year, but you think nothing of jumping in your car where 40 thousand get killed every year.

As carrying a gun every time you go camping, only cowards do that.

It's just a risk you run, camp near bears you may be attacked, swim with sharks you may be attacked. It happens. If you worry about it to much don't go camping, and don't blame the bears if you do.

As carrying a gun every time you go camping, only cowards do that

Only fools don't!!

I kind of get the attaction to sleeping out in nature under the stars, and the whole camping deal, but what people don't remember or realize is that human beings survived all these millenia because we figure out things like how to build dwelling to protect ourselves frommarauding beasts that can kill us.

This is exactly what happens when you take hunting preditors off the table. They totally lose their fear of humans. The same thing will happen with the wolves soon. They are spreading throughout the west from the Yellowstone area and it is only a matter of time until they start munching on humans.

right, allow gun into national park. Where people drink and mingle/ drink and mingle/ drink and mingle some more.

I can see here that some seem to not go camping, hence idiotic statements like "stay out of the bear's natural environment". Actually, that happens to be humans natural environment too. This is why so many go camping...to experience what you don't get in a big city. In any case, if you don't carry a gun, then you are taking a chance on losing your life or a limb. 99.9% of the time, campers will not have an issue with a bear or any other animal capable of killing a human. But, do you want to be that .01%? I don't and I always did and always will carry a pistol when camping anywhere, whether it is legal or illegal. I'll take the fine and even jail time to stay alive.

I recommend a revolver (it won't jam) in at least a .357 magnum or higher...my preference is a .44 magnum. Of course, you should be educated in it's use with safety first.

For those who refuse to protect themselves, you had better hope someone like me is camping in the next tent if a bear attack happens. I don't hunt and I don't want to kill an animal, but I will to protect me and you.

Laying on the ground in a sleeping bag inside a tent with food and trash in containers in Grizzly country is like chumming for Great White sharks without a boat off the Great Barrier Reef in Australia. This is a dumb thing to do. Bears will be bears and people should stay away from their territory.

That's a tired and ridiculous statement van. I don't drink, I do carry a gun. Because others drink doesn't nullify my right to carry and protect my self and family.

Marty, if you don't' carry a gun everywhere you had better be psychic to know where to carry it. Better to have and not need.

It's interesting how many people place so much emphasis on: "you're in the animals habitat so you basically get what you deserve if you're attacked" and "to carry a gun to protect yourself (and possibly others) qualifies you as a coward". This appears to be the prevailing attitude of liberal pussies, who don't know jack; the same type of people who don't have the balls to protect themselves (with a gun) and rely on the govt. to protect them.

Although the risk of animal attack is low, even for people who spend a lot of time in the wilderness, it's only common sense that a person be prepared to protect themselves in the even an attack does occur.

I'm so tired of the weak minded city folk opinion that man should remove himself and his influence from the wild (a call to join the pussified ranks of the typical libbie). Like it or not, Man is an undeniable part of nature, and given that we're at the top of the food chain we enjoy a few perks, like the ability to kill other animals for sport, sustenance, or protection. What's wrong with this?

Someday, when the sh_t hits the fan, you better wish you have a neighbor like me, one that is willing to protect thier family, themselves, and possible so misguided yuppies like many of those that post stupid responses to message threads like this.

Right on Moon Dog.

As a Anthropologist studying mesolithic era social structures, I have to agree with the majority of individuals about natural habitats. Yes, we can visit these places and hunt, which early man did. But most of the respondants stating that we soon learned to build habitats to protect ourselves from not only animal attacks but from natural elements as well, are absoulutely right. If you want to see more modern proof of this, look at the early Native American cultures in America and even the current cultures in Africa and the Amazon that have held onto their way of life for 1000s of years. They do not sleep out in the open, under the stars, with a flemsy zip-up tent as protection. Fires are left buring all night which keeps dangerous predators away as well as other precautions.

Although it is nice to sleep outside on occasion for what ever reason you have. Using the notion that "early man" did this constantly is completely fabricated and pure fantasy. Early man was smart enough to quickly figure out that such activity was dangerous and risky,

You are the sissies.

Survival of the fittest does not mean surival of the most armed in this case. It is an uneven and unfair disadvantage to the animal - in this day and age.

Would you have the guts to shoot a child who is standing on a street lost? That is what I equate this situation to. The bear is looking to eat in their habitat. Would you kill all wild things that harm humans while the humans are encroaching on their natural habitats?

Someday, I hope Not to have a neighbor like you moondog99, "one that is willing to protect thier family, themselves". Because in the process of protecting all that you've got, if I come over begging for some food or water from you, you will kill me. So I hope you do not live anywhere near me.

i think it's cruel to kill mother bear..she s/b sedated and transported with her children too kodiak island or some far away remote area..where people are not usually; Camping...to think that Camping is allowed where Grizzly's reside is insane on the Parks department rules........

'Will they get it' jeeesus?

If you want to camp out, do it in your backyard or a safe place. It is arrogant for someone to camp where the wildlife roam and then to hold the wildlife accountable when an incident happens. If you are camping in your backyard and the neighbor's pit bull attacks you, then you have a claim. I feel more sorry for the bear than I do for the attacked campers, bless their souls.

To moondog99 and all the other gun-toting idiots...One can fend off a bear attack with pepper spray designed for that purpose. Try Googling Jack Hanna. Psycho, gun-toting idiots put all of us in danger. If a bear is close enough to hurt you, use pepper spray. If he is not that close, then there is no reason to shoot him.

In response to swatpup102 and rightvswrong: People with guns in parks are idiots. Not long ago in Glacier N.P. a person shot at a deer in the bushes because they thought it was a grizzly. How does that make you feel to be walking around in the woods with the possibility you might be mistaken for a bear. Oh sh#$ it's a bear!! Shoot it!!! Oh no, never mind it was just Steve... who is now dead. If people are smart and follow the protocol in bear country they will, more than likely, be fine. Of course things like this happen even when people do what they were supposed to, but that is a risk you take. I'd rather sleep in the woods than walk through many areas in America. Afraid of bears and wildlife? Stay home. Ignorant folks who think guns are the best defense are also the idiots who get out of their cars and walk towards wildlife to get a better view. Just wait until you get rammed in the face by a bison or bighorn sheep, who most people view as harmless.

I think it's up to the individual, how he or she decides to defend against wild animal attacks.

Stay at home. Go camping and carry a gun. Go camping and carry pepper spray. Go camping and carry nothing. Vote for Obama....

You're not an idiot because you carry a gun, and you're not an idiot because you don't.

You're an idiot if you presume to know what's best for everyone else!

Reply to bedebe:

"Would you have the guts to shoot a child who is standing on a street lost? That is what I equate this situation to. The bear is looking to eat in their habitat. Would you kill all wild things that harm humans while the humans are encroaching on their natural habitats?"

What a ridiculous analogy! Besides, you are the very example of what I'm talking about.....people who try to remove man from nature......their "natural habitat" is ours too! Why do folks like you try to deny this? I thinks it's because you've been brainwashed into thinking that we're too civilized now (evolutionally speaking) and therefore any interaction with other animals, especially those that lead to their death is bad; if you're not a 100% vegan then you're a hypocrite.

All species encroach on other species habitat. It's survival of the fitest for sure, and just because man has evolved a brain, and the ingenuity to produce firearms (to ensure our ability to hunt and kill), doesn't mean we have an "unfair" advantage. We are superior to other animals and that's why we're on the top of the food chain. But, in fairness to those who disagree, then I welcome them to frequent "thier habitat" ant thier own risk.

Your response is why I don't feel guilty for not feeling sorry when yuppies get eaten in the wild.

Someday, I hope Not to have a neighbor like you moondog99, "one that is willing to protect thier family, themselves". Because in the process of protecting all that you've got, if I come over begging for some food or water from you, you will kill me. So I hope you do not live anywhere near me.

Fine by me, but if you came begging I would do my best to accomodate, but if you come to steal my food and water, you will be greeted by flames from the end of a barrel!

Reply to scales67:

To moondog99 and all the other gun-toting idiots...One can fend off a bear attack with pepper spray designed for that purpose. Try Googling Jack Hanna. Psycho, gun-toting idiots put all of us in danger. If a bear is close enough to hurt you, use pepper spray. If he is not that close, then there is no reason to shoot him.

What you say is true, it is possible to fend off an attack with pepper spray, and for those who don't have the balls to protect themselves with a firearm, then it's a good alternative; although there are many documented cases of pepper spray cans being found in bear dung.

Personally, I would always do my best to avoid a conflict with a bear, whether I'm armed or not, but if it came down to it, then I'll always put my firearm over pepper spray.

Another note: "gun-toting idiots" are the only thing that prevents the government from completely pussifying our country, and our species. I'll bet you'd have another opinion if you'd ever been it a situation where you were dependent on the government to "protect" you.......and I'm not talking about protection from bears. You can continue to live in a fantasy world, where we all get along and we live next to Bambi in perfect harmony, or you can get real.

It is up to the individual and I understand your point. My only problem with the idea of guns in parks is that I fear people will now have a false sense of security and do stupid stuff like shoot at a deer, go into bear country and leave food out, or go into places they shouldn't. You also still need to know how to use a gun. Can't you just picture Ma and Pa with the kids stopping at the nearest sporting goods store to pick up a gun and heading into the woods like Jeremiah Johnson or Rambo? Ok kids, we are safe now. Yeah right.

A thought about using a gun in the wilderness with thick bushes and undergrowth. What if the gunner shoots at the bear, but misses, and the bullet keeps going for several hundred yards more, and kills a person, who was trying to chase the bear away from their own camp? Ooops. Not all bears will attack, some will try to run away when spooked.

It happens with the bullets "flying". Bullets meant for deer do travel on and enter through the windows or walls of homes nearby. Some have even killed those who live there. It happened in my neighborhood to a home on the edge of my development bordering deer hunting fields.

It takes only one "rookie", one drunk, one druggie, with a gun.

Anything is possible and

It takes only one "rookie", one drunk, one druggie, with a gun.

............Would apply no matter what situation or location or danger we were discussing.

Granted, drinking or doing drugs and handling a firearm isn't wise, period.

But neither is drinking and driving, which I'm SURE kills more people every year than hunting accidents.

My point is: responsible people do responsible things. And irresponsible people don't......gun or no gun.

If guns are allowed in the national parks, the bears wont be the only ones I would fear when I go camping next time.

I think it is cruel to kill that bear - they must be imposing our judicial system on the bear, only she wont have a lawyer to defend her. Some people call themselves the 'superior' species with a much developed brain to aid live safely from other species of animals, and at the same time, say that the wilderness is their habitat too.

It's Bush's fault!!

Bush's fault?

By that you must mean that there are so many sheeple out there? Sheeple that need to be led by a shephard; not willing to accept their responsibility for self preservation, instead relying on "The Man" to do it for them; pretty ineffectively too.

People who don't accept Man's rightful place at the top of the food chain, and are unwilling to take their own personal safety into their own hands, are pussies, plain and simple.

What is this world coming too?

BTW - the OooooooooooBAMa administration could have stepped in to make possesion of a gun illegal in national parks, but I assure you anyone with a spine would ingore this and carry anyway. I would.

moondog, your reference to "many documented cased of pepper spray cans in bear dung' seems just a bit farfetched. I find it very difficult to believe there are that many encounters where bear spray actually got used to where the bear would have a chance to eat it, and the alternative seems to be that bears like either metal cannisters or the taste of pepper spray.

Have seen lots of bear dung, don't know that I have ever seen any metal in it. Would love to see a source reference to the documented cases.

I relent, the reference to "pepper spray cans in bear dung" was a feeble attempt at humor, and though I can't site any references off the top of my head, I'll bet a little research would yeild at least one example of this.

I've also been around bears all my life and they will eat, or attempt to eat, anything, and I mean anything (I've seen plenty of metal, and aluminum, tin cans, and even rubber soles from some rather large boots in bear dung).

I think we should do some experiments with those that are inclined to use pepper spray vs. those that would use a firearm. Of course this would require the unfortunate killing of a few bears to make a point, but it would be interesting.

I'm not saying that the folks choosing firearms would be safe, in fact even with the largest pistols and rifles available many "gun toting idiots" are killed by bears anyway, but I suspect the yuppies weilding a can of pepper spray would be too (although at a much higher rate, I expect).

What do you think? Care to volunteer for a study?

The problem with guns or any other weapon is that it is one thing to have it, another to have the presense and capability to be able to react quickly and appropriately when necessary. If you have been around bears your whole life I would assume you have done your share of hunting/shooting, know you don't just pick up a gun and become a hunter.

Hope the reference to volunteering for a study isn't another "feeble attempt at humor" at my expense. No attempt on my part to condescend or do personal attacks w/my comments; don't think those are necessary or help make any points in discussion.

BTW, agree completely that wouldn't be real wise to count on pepper spray to help in a confrontation w/a bear.

Sorry, it was another attempt at humor, I guess I'm not doing very well.........but I agree that using a firearm for protection against animal (or human) predators is not to be taken lightly and no one knows for sure how they may react until confronted with a situation. Even an experienced outdoorsman or shooter can choke under pressure. But honestly, I'd feel better standing next to a novice with a firearm, than an expert with pepper spray.

I guess I long for the day when a man or woman accepted responsibiliy for thier own well being. Now it seems that so many sheeple are content to suckle the teet of "The Man" (this is a reference to being reliant on an ineffective government to protect you and establish laws that disarm folks who want to take care of themselves).

Our numbers are declining and perhaps I'm a bit of a dinosaur in this day and age, but I'm also hard headed and it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I simply refuse to buy into the libbie concept that we need to control guns with laws and rely on "The Man" for protection and to tell us how to live our lives.

Believe it or not, being able to protect yourself from threats, whether or not you ever have to, brings a great deal of comfort to folks that are wise to "The Mans" agenda; which is to control every aspect of our lives, give weak minded people an illusion that "they" know what's best for you, and to protect you from all sorts of villans, including ourselves. It's all about control, and like sheep, more and more people are wiling to submit to "the Man."

In any case, I really feel like we, as people, have a right to protect ourselves from predators. If you choose pepper spray then good for you, if you choose a firearm, then ditto. I fear though that "The Man" will eventually only allow pepper spray, or outright ban the common man's ability to enjoy the great outdoors.

Think about it.

I think my bottom line point on all of this is pretty much as follows:

1. We are the intruders, not the bears. THere are very few havens left, we are encroaching on those few havens.

2. Bears in these instances are doing what bears do by nature, even if their nature has been modified some in these areas due to constant human interaction.

3. People are often fools or just haven't been around this stuff so are ignorant of what they are doing/should do. Either fools or ignorant, they bear(no pun intented) some of the responsibility. The situation wouldn't have occured if they had not chosen to camp there.

4. It is a sad, unfortunate result. People have died.

5. It is a sad, unfortunate incident. The bears must die. In the end, people must take precedence over animals.

6. Arming ourselves to the teeth with firearms is not the answer. Most people are not likely to have the training and experience to react appropriately and quickly enough when the situation occurs, even if they are lucky enough to get a shot off, odds are pretty darned good that they will end up shooting another person, or mistake another person for a bear in the dark of night. Pepper spray is no better an answer. People are no more likely to use it appropriately when the time comes, and it would be insane to bet your life that a deterrent is going to stop a bear. The answer is not creating the situation in the first place. Don't allow soft-sided camping in known bear areas.

7. Guns are powerful and very appropriate tools for certain situations and with the proper training/experience. I own multiple guns as a result of growing up in rural Montana. In the wrong situations, they are just an added threat.

Bottom line: The mistakes were made by people creating the situation in the first place. If they didn't camp there in tents, against known risks, this discussion would not be occurring. A gun in this situation might kill the bear, might not, might hurt other people and might not. As it is both people and bears died because of what people chose to do.

moondog

In reading your posts at one point I almost wanted to defend some of your points, but then realized you amay be one of the worst enemies of reason and to those who might choose to own a gun for self defense purposes.

Point 1 with regard to bears. Sure if you are in your own yard and a bear or other wild animal threatens your existence, protecting yourself with a firearm is ultimately reasonable. Lets be real though, humans have a very distinct advantage over wild animal in that we have the means to stay away from them. And it's humans that have really dessimated most wild animal populations on the earth. There's no real challenge there so in my view what pssifies (to use one of your words) a nation is a bunch of gungho people running around shooting things that are weaker than they are.

Point 2. Your little old side arm or even automatic if you have one is not going to protect you from a rouge government at this point. The government has far bigger and better weapons at its disposal and if it decided that a buch of of gun toting rednecks were becomming a nuisance, whether it 50, 500, 5,000 or 500,000 they could probably stick a stinger or sidewinder up each ones butt. The US military virtually burried the Iraqi military in dessrt storm without very little problem.

Guns are tools and are very useful , but too many people think they make them something they are not, brave and tough.

SteveJ:

Howdy Podjo.

I've got gaggles of bear on my mountain. Periodically I have to put a round or two in the dirt behind them to run them back in the woods. I am one of those odd ball hard left environmental radical tree hugger hunter outdoor fellows and I'd sure as heck like to get through life saying I never shot a bear. These are small black bears here though I spent time in Montana and am familiar with Griz. When those monsters strolled through the ranch Big Dawg and I tended to peek at em through the window and let me be.

This entire gun piss fight is pretty amusing to me. It is certainly an agrarian vs urban, liberal vs right issue. Hell, it may even be a spin off from the old Jeffersonian/Hamiltonian debate. Anyhow, I am a country goober and I've shot critters and et them for most of my life. There is no debate in regard to the 2n amendment in the places I chose to live and I have no problem or fear from an armed society.

I've also retrieved a bear victim while working fire and rescue. Not much fun. I've hunted and bushwhacked in the high west for years. I do not like nor understand "campsites" and folks that come from the cities and all camp together. Seems like the point is to get away from that shyte. Guess not. I guess the point being is that hunting or bushwhacking entails being far from the beaten path. To enter the domain of a very large grumpy predator unarmed is rather silly. Pretty much a consensus where I hang.

As far as your number two up there, well, I'd just have to point out the wars we have fought and are fighting against vastly outgunned and manned rabbles. They have all seemed to put up a pretty dang good fight of it regardless of their points of view and less than high tech battle rattle. Partisan warfare has historically been a difficult endeavor to combat. I get the feeling that the same would be true here.

As you mentioned, and I heartily agree, guns are naught but tools. They are put to good use and bad. It is the nature of a truly free society to be a most dangerous situation. Such is life.

A sad story though. I hate to hear of folks being eaten and mauled. And I hate as well to hear of the critters being killed because of such. It's the way things shake out though.

best atcha

".....if a war of races should occur between the wild beasts and Lord Man, I would be tempted to sympathize with the bears....." John Muir

Tex:

Think the essence of what you are saying is that it really should be about common sense and pragmatism in the environment you find yourself. If so, agree completely.

As for it being a "agrarian vs urban, liberal vs right issue", think that is mostly right, but not completely. As you yourself are showing, the categories don't have to be completely black and white or mutually exclusive. Goes back to the common sense and pragmatism thing.

Last, an interesting story.

As a college student, received a Black Powder rifle from parents for an Xmas present. Brought it back to Bozeman, Montana w/me. One day, hopped on my motorcycle w/a friend to go do some target practice with it a few miles out of town in the Gallatin National Forest, not far from where the incident of this article.

As an amateur w/Black Powder, loading was slow and cumbersome. Was getting off maybe one round every 4-5 minutes, then spotted a black spot in the distance on a hillside. Kept on firing, the spot kept getting bigger and closer.

Ultimately, the spot turned out to be a black bear. For some reason, the sound of my gun attracted the bear. Coming from a hunting background, my immediate thought was that having a black bear fur would be really cool, the bear finally got close enough that if I fired, almost certainly could have hit it. It would have been pretty much legal, as I could have quickly popped back into town and picked up a 10 or 20 dollar black bear tag and been home free.

Didn't do it for two reasons. First, a bear is a pretty tough critter and a .50 cal black power rifle might not have enough stopping power. FOur of five minutes to reload...... Second, my friend kept asking me not to. Am glad now didn't do it and hunting attitudes have changed over the years, but anyway...... Stopped shooting, got on the motorcycle and on to other adventures in MT.

Shadow Knows:

Well, you pretty much put my semi coherent ramble into a two concept statement. Pragmatism and Common Sense. Sorry. I tend to blather. It's a curse.

Great story. I do love stories. I wouldn't wish an attempt to thwart a determined bear with a muzzle loader even if it is a 50 ca. In fact, I'm hoping to get through life never having to shoot at a bear at all. Glad you were able to motor off and not become a critter hors d'oeuvre.

I've spent some time on two wheels in Montana myself. Almost became an icecycle trying to get out of the Flat Head once.

in the future, on the funway......

Tex,

Great post and I admire your position given your circumstances. Igrew up on the water rather than in the trees, and as such had less of a need to own or carry a sidearm. We tended to get our meals using poles and hoods rather than lead. We might need to shoot an odd shark now and then.

I think the thing that bothers my about societies attitude towards firearms, by some at least is that they are this nation's most important symbol of freedom and power. We the people are the societies greatest asset and hiding behind some hot lead is somehow to me seemingly cowardly.

Anyway, while it seems that grassroots efforts have an effect on more guerrilla type fights, it is almost exclusively politics that impede a superior military's progress. Limiting civilian casualties, protecting innocents and fighting while trying to maintain a socially and morally superior position create great obstacles during military engagements.

While I might argue that the pen is still mightier than the sword, or today perhaps the keyboard is mightier than the 45, when facing up a grizzly, I'll take the 45. I hear Grizzlies can't read anyway.

The best defense against any bear is high caliber round to it's head. I should note here that this is only when there is no alternative. But the lives of my family comes before the life of the bear.

micheleangelina

It should be noted that "playing dead" only works with grizzly bears. If you are attacked by a black bear the best way to protect yourself is to fight back, make lots of noise, wave your arms, yell, and try to hit the animal in the face and nose. A grizzly will not STOP attacking until they believe you're dead, while a black bear will be intimidated by your fight.

So at the point where a bear bites me, do I say "ummmm, excuse me...are you a black bear or a grizzly?"????

I'm sure a lot of people, when face to face with a bear, or feeling a bear's razor sharp teeth chewing on one of their bones, isn't going to THINK at that moment, so look and see (possibly in the dark) whether the bear is black or brown.
Teeth and claws look alike during an attack.

avoid nature. leave her alone.

ConwayTwitter: at the point where you want to save your own life... the faces look different, they are also different sizes, or you can remain uneducated and not know what to do... that works too.

I live where the largest black bears in the world are. ( Haida Gwaii ) In the past 2 decades I have had several close encounters with blacks of all sizes. Though I have been cornered in a small field office by one it is not necessary to pack a gun or be fearful every time you enter the forest. Another time the only thing that saved me was the wearing of caulked boots and an ability to run on fallen timber a little better than the bear. This was not the bears fault. I was 1.5 miles into a logging area and right on his pathway to a lake where he drank. Also in my knapsack were fresh bacon and egg sandwiches. The bear smelled my sack long before he saw me, and once I was spotted it was deemed I was a threat to the food. He got the lunch and I earned the right to a good scrubbing of the undershorts. Even after this I did not feel a need to kill this animal as it is his forest and I was just passing through.The problem here is bears are attracted to food and campers bring along lots of tasty tidbits. A grizzley can smell food from miles away and will come for it. Imagine what sizzling smokies and burgers smell like to an animal with a nose 30 times more sensitive than ours. All bears will fight for food and a grizzley is more inclined because of strong territorial instincts. It is a shame that this bear will be put down now but there is not other choice. Several problem bears are eliminated here each year as once they have a taste for garbage etc. they cannot be cured. Relocation is only a temporary stay of execution as they will always go back to human food.

A suggestion would be for the Parks service to ensure the safety of campers within a safe camping zone. As for people who backpack with their tents for days at a time in remote areas; Bears do s..t in the woods so watch where you step ;)

Conway, don't you know that the tree-hugging liberals in the Sierra Club have attached ID tags to the ears of all black bears and grizzly bears so you will know which one is biting you. Very thoughtful.

The best defense against any bear is high caliber round to it's head. I should note here that this is only when there is no alternative. But the lives of my family comes before the life of the bear.

Actually, bears have incredibly thick skulls. If you shoot a bear in the head, you'll just piss him off. Go for the center of mass.

Northerneagle: what a wonderful and thoughtful post. Thank you for being so rational; you don't see that too often on these boards!

NorthernEagle, you're playing with fire and you will get burned sooner or later.

I think all Grizzlys should be hunted to extinction. The food chain would still work fine without them, no matter what the big-brain people say.

You're an idiot!

Frank-m21 - what an idiot thing to say! Grizzlys should be hunted to extinction....really?!!

I think all Grizzlys should be hunted to extinction. The food chain would still work fine without them, no matter what the big-brain people say.

Wow, what an incredibly thoughtless, uneducated statement. You clearly have had no education in biology, ecology, or wildlife management.

I remember waking up to a black bear roaming around my camp one summer night. Luckily my food was in a bag over a tree branch and after sticking his black bear nose into the side of my tent he got bored and wandered off. Certainly hasn't deterred me from camping, just reminded me to always make sure I don't leave food around the campsite.

Greek Prince

Conway, don't you know that the tree-hugging liberals in the Sierra Club have attached ID tags to the ears of all black bears and grizzly bears so you will know which one is biting you. Very thoughtful.

LOL, funny, Greek Prince!

sam-1560131

ConwayTwitter: at the point where you want to save your own life... the faces look different, they are also different sizes, or you can remain uneducated and not know what to do... that works too.

Dear, dear Sam...
No need to be insensitive to people. I was born and raised in FLORIDA. We don't see many bears there, so don't insult my intelligance just because I don't know which bear is which.
I guess is, unless Dorothy's tornado picks a few up and drops them by the ocean, I probably won't be seeing many in the future either.

van-1120261

avoid nature. leave her alone

Actually I kinda DO stay out of the woods. I'm actually a city girl.
I DID find myself at Yellowstone once when I worked in Montana. I (honestly), had no idea there would be bears. Not because I'm any kind of idiot as apparently some posters might think. I simply don't live near them and it didn't cross my mind.

I went to Yellowstone to take pictures of the waterfalls everyone there was telling me about. (yes, I was alone. No gun...just a camera.)
It wasn't until I was in the middle of the "woods" there, that I saw a SIGN telling me to "watch out for bears". EGADS! I've never left a place so fast in my life! Funny how none of the people that LIVE there bothered to mention those to me!! lol

okay then why are you mocking perfectly useful survival information if you're never going to see a bear? Do they not have books or the internet in Florida? Not knowing there are bears in Yellowstone is like not knowing there's gators in FL. I can still find out the difference between a multitude of bears and I've never seen one in my life, but if i'm going to an area saturated in them i'm going to do the responsible thing and educate myself on the wildlife. Going to an area foreign to you and not knowing a single thing about it is just ignorant. Thats how people get hurt.

Lizard

A .50 caliber round will penetrate any skull from a reasonable distance. But, I agree with you, in a panic someone is more likely to hit the torso than the head. Again I would like to point out that I'd rather the bears be left alone and it not come to their deaths.

Frank-m21 - I think you should be hunted to extinction. The food chain would still work fine without you, no matter what a idiots like you say.

Amen

sam-1560131

okay then why are you mocking perfectly useful survival information if you're never going to see a bear? Do they not have books or the internet in Florida? Not knowing there are bears in Yellowstone is like not knowing there's gators in FL. I can still find out the difference between a multitude of bears and I've never seen one in my life, but if i'm going to an area saturated in them i'm going to do the responsible thing and educate myself on the wildlife. Going to an area foreign to you and not knowing a single thing about it is just ignorant. Thats how people get hurt.

LOL! A little touchy today, aren't you sam?

Let's not forget that this a message board. It's here for people's opinions, lighthearted posts and information. It's not for people to call other people down just because they don't see the same side of the road as you do.

Goody goody, that you know about bears. I'm proud of you.
It's not the most important part of my life, so I don't feel a need to check out books or read about bears on the internet. Thanks anyway.

In my world, the only bears I think about, are the soft, stuffed & cuddly kinds that I collect for Toys for Tots every year.

I don't feel a need to defend myself or my light-hearted humor to someone who doesn't even know me, so if you don't like my post, why don't you do like normal people, and just pass over it, or better yet, put me on your ignore list. I promise it won't hurt my feelings.

Conway, you are wrong. I was born in Florida, moved around, and now back here. There are black bears all up and down the Gulf Coast. A drive between Spring Hill and Crystal River has bear crossing posted all up and down the corridor. Also, while we were waiting while our home was being built, we rented. A small patch of woods was behind us backing up to US 19 in New Port Richey. A VERY heavily traveled road. I came face to face with one. The woods couldn't have been more than 1/2 acre. Every road I have traveled in Fl, have at somepoint signs for bear crossings. The sad part is, the bears are disappearing. House developments are taking over their habit. When I lived in NM I worked at the zoo and hand raised a Polar Bear Cub from infancy to where he was able to take care of himself.(A year and a half) This was at the Rio Grande Zoo. It makes me so mad when idiots think shoot first. Believe it or NOT, this is their land, you are nothing but a vistor. It's the same if I came into your house, threw you outside and took over. You would fight back, wouldn't you.

petunia34652

Conway, you are wrong. I was born in Florida, moved around, and now back here. There are black bears all up and down the Gulf Coast. A drive between Spring Hill and Crystal River has bear crossing posted all up and down the corridor. Also, while we were waiting while our home was being built, we rented. A small patch of woods was behind us backing up to US 19 in New Port Richey. A VERY heavily traveled road. I came face to face with one. The woods couldn't have been more than 1/2 acre. Every road I have traveled in Fl, have at somepoint signs for bear crossings.

Geez Petunia,
Someone leave the gate open at Busch Gardens again? Probably the new owners.
(/humor, don't bite me like sam did, okay?)

I'm very familiar with Hwy 19. I'm from Tampa/St.Pete/Clearwater.
So I guess this means when I move back, I'll have to have bear repellent intead of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, huh, since I've been thinking of moving just north of Clearwater.

Florida Gators vs. Florida Bears? Eeeeps!

Anyway, all kidding aside....it was a horrible event for the families and I wish for them to find some sort of peace during this tragedy they've been through.

ClintHorace

I agree with your reasoning. I applied my reasoning to the situation being discussed at this time.

Unfortunately "reasonable" people can, and most do, become unreasonable and disoriented when under the influence of any substance.

I am for zero - 0 - tolerance for drinking any alcohol and driving. Zero, zip. If caught, take the license away on the spot forever, and jail and community work time. This is one law that should be Nationwide, not State, because we all drive across different states regularly.

Legal pain drugs use and antidepressant medications, sometimes mixed together, and then driving, that is scary too.

But at least if we got rid of drunken driving, which is more common, that would cut down the risks of being in a car or on a motorcycle on the road for all ages: infants, children, teens, adults, elderly.

I am at a loss why everyone would not agree with this and want it enforced. No one is exempt from this type of death or maiming of the body. Not even those who make money off of selling alcohol, or lobby against enacting a Zero Tolerance Law Nationwide. They too can become victims of drunk drivers and can die or be paralyzed from it. Sometimes, that is the only thing that will actually make a difference. When someone high profile is affected.

In somewhat related news Yogi Bear will be in theatres December 17th.

If that show taught me anything it's that you should always lock up your picnic basket while in Jellystone Park.

Andrew:

Well, dang. Thanks Pard. I've been reading through these posts sorta shaking my head at the litty pissy gun fight that broke out. Your post came at about the right time.

Seriously amusing. Considering the article, it comes close to being real sneaky black humor. Thumbs up.

Eat Mo Possum

Well ain't that something. They react just like humans do when given free stuff that is then taken away from them.

Maybe we should give the poor bear amnesty. After all, he was just trying to feed his poor family. We can teach her cubs English, give him food stamps and free medical care.

I'm with you on that one. No bears, cougars, bugs, and the indoor toilets and showers work along with being cleaned on a regular basis.

I agree romilio. Used to camp many years ago, and saw bears wondering the campsite one night searching for people food, or maybe people for food. I'm no fool...went to a hotel and have never looked back

No bears, cougars, bugs, and the indoor toilets and showers work along with being cleaned on a regular basis.

Uhhhh...I am a 20year veteran of the highway. While I haven't seen cougars and bears in any of the rooms I've been in.....bugs are frequent visitors. As for the toilets and showers being cleaned on a regular basis....don't ever watch a 20/20 or a comparable documentary about hotels. You might not like what you hear about what you thought was "clean".

conway, I have to say I'd still rather take my chances with the hotel room than camp out in bear country. I would never do it, even knowing the chances of a bear attack are minimal.

I prefer to sleep at home, and take day trips. Cleaner and cheaper.

I was thinking RV myself. I love being in nature, sitting by the fire, but wouldn't mind having some protection around me. I have RV camped for alot of years and it is still an adventure.

No bugs in hotels? BAH!!!!!! What about the bed bugs? And by the way, most things people do are more dangerous than camping. Driving being one, crossing the street another. Would you rather have your car break down in the "wrong part" of town in the middle of the night? or on a backcountry road?

One of the key reasons that Americans can have guns in federal parks.

One of the key reasons people who don't know what they are doing should not camp in parks with grizzlies. The animals have few places left to go. Is it so hard to understand that they are wild - and that region is their home?

Buffalos almost disappeared because White People (I am too, so don't start on that!) decided it was amusing to kill buffalo with guns for sport. Indians had been taking some with arrows etc. for centuries for food and skins etc. without reducing the herds at all.

Nature is balanced until you bring guns into the picture. I say arm the folks with bows and arrows - then let the best animal win!

The way Native Americans hunt(ed) was and is also a very ceremonial and methodical they would only take what they need and they would take from more than one herd. Every animal they were able to catch was seen as a blessing from the "gods" and they would share whatever game they caught with whoever wanted any so that each family would not have to go out and kill their own buffalo. They would also use every last piece of every animal they hunted, never letting a single bone or hair go to waste. The problem with the "white people" is and was that we/they saw it as a commodity to be killed and sold and not as a way to sustain life.

Dorfy - The systematic slaughter of the buffalo to the brink of extinction was not because White people were doing it for fun, or for sport, although there was some of that. It was government sanctioned, at the behest of President Grant, as a means of eliminating a major resourse of the Indian nations to bring them to submission to the U.S. Government. His reasoning ran something like this -- "If we can't kill them all with bullets, we'll starve them all to death." If you're interested in learning more, a good book to start with would be "A Century of Dishonor" by Helen Hunt Jackson. Read it and weep - a shameful side of American history. And, BTW, I agree with bow and arrow proposition.

Sam you are a racist person when you say "The problem with the "white people" is". I find this very offensive as I am white and do not treat animals as commodities. There have been enough defamatory stereotypes about American Indians that I'm sure you would find offensive in nature and racist that are not needed for this discussion. I didn't hear anybody speaking of the great animals as commodities, just you.

But on the subject of campers in our national parks, we as humans have as much of a right to be in the parks as the bears, if a bear attacks a human the human should defend itself and a gun would be the appropriate weapon. dorfy, a bow and arrow would certainly do the trick as well, I have been a bow hunter for 35 years and I can tell you with certainty that a grizzly is no match for a well equipped bow hunter.

When did "racist" become the worst thing to call somebody, Chuck? Sam stated he is white, so is he self-loathing in your view?

Instead of strutting around with a high powered gun to defend against something that happens maybe 2 - 3 times a year in all of North America, carry bear spray formulated to stop a grizzly in it's tracks.

Knowing me, I'd hold it backwards...

Marty bear spray does not stop a grizzly in it' tracks. Just like guns don't always provide an instant stop, no matter if the target has two or four legs. Properly deployed guns in appropriate calibers will stop a bear much faster than any spray.

I do not go out in the woods where bears are likely to be present without carrying an effective means for self defense. Even when I was a small child living in northern Minnesota where only black bears lived my parents took steps to protect us, including carrying a 12 gauge shotgun on family walks. We were also required to bring our dog with us when we went into the woods without adults. The hope was that our dog would be able to distract the bear long enough for us to escape up the nearest tree or preferably his presence would help keep the bear away completely.

Bears are starting to lose their fear of man and this is a bad thing for the bears and people. Scientifically approved hunting will keep bear numbers in check and help ensure that bears fear humans. Reduced bear populations are less likely to come into conflict with humans and the population will soon relearn to stay away from people.

Also, spraying pepper spray "inside" a tent will blind you as well! If the bear is already in the tent with you and has a hold of your leg, pepper spray may just make him rip your leg off and carry it away with him!

Didn't see where Sam said he was white, but if he did, yes he is self-loathing.

Bears have a sense of smell that is many times more sensitive than even a bloodhound. That is why bear spray is usually pretty effective. I'm not opposed to guns but you better be pretty accurate to stop a grizzly in its tracks. This attack also occured in a campground, so an errant shot might have killed another person. That wouldn't happen with bear spray.

As I see with some of comments we have a lot of arm chair naturalist sitting behind their computer in an apartment located in a city or in a housing development somewhere writing here. I am not by any means an expert. But what I am is a Diary farmer 3 rd generation and 55 years old a avid hunter since an early age and taught to respect nature, animals and fire arms. Now my point is since people with fire arms are demonized by some people, more now days than years ago. I have to say animals including predators have made a good come back in this country. The reasons are environmental control supported by taxes and licensing fees. But I have seen the generations change with their view of hunting and trapping. Less a least in my area are doing these things. To the point the government is trapping them or hiring people to hunt them off as a means of control, so populations of wolfs, wild cats and birds of prey have increased causing more contact with people and domestic animals sometimes with a bad out come. We are the care takers of this planet and need take care of ourselves and the animals that live with us here. Good conservation is not done by making us sportsman's feel guilty. But by learning about animals and how to control them and if any of you want to go back to living in tents and surviving off the land , check out the property for sale in some of the western States plenty of room to hike up in the mountains and be one with nature. So while you're drinking your latté in front of your computer talking down us "white people". Think about your next meal maybe at a nice restaurant and just maybe you will find the time to say thank you to all the farmers, Military and hunters ( of all color and race) for giving you a safe place to sleep and eat and not talk about things that you have no knowledge of. Camping is healthy and fun and people who do it should not be made to feel they are intruding on the animals.

1) I am a female. and 2) I used that terminology in reference to the previous post who was referring to the vernacular used around the period of western settlement. Hence the quotes. And no, I am not self loathing but I do feel ashamed of the way the white settlers came in and ruined a civilization that believed in only taking what you need and honoring the earth and all of its inhabitants.

Chuck, the only way that a well equipped bow hunter has an inkling of a chance against a grizzley is if the bear is unaware of the hunter and the hunter takes a blindside shot. Grizzleys have been shot straight on, in the head, by large caliber pistols and not been stopped. That leads to the other point about having a pistol to "defend" yourself against a grizzley... If you don't have a 44 or 45 cal, you are only going to piss it off. 9mm? Might as well use a sling shot unless you get really lucky.

This is directed more generally to the audience:

These bears can cover a lot of ground in the blink of an eye. How steady is your hand in the face of a charging bear? So many gun advocates talk crap about needing guns to defend. How many stray bullets would have been ripping around that campground at every strange noise once it was known that a bear was there? I'm not going to knock responsible gun ownership having owned and used guns most of my life, but there are way too many people who cannot handle the responsibility of the minor things in life much less the responsibility of handling a gun when they are spooked in the woods. The reality is that we do dangerous things every day. Driving to the campground is so much more dangerous than the bears. Do we have the right to shoot other drivers because they might be dangerous?

Hey MartyC, contrary to what you've been told--bear spray does not "stop a grizzly in its tracks". It often takes a few sprays and you'd better hope to God that the bear doesn't get to you before you get off a few shots. Also, better make sure you're spraying in the right direction and the wind isn't blowing or you'll get a face full of bear spray. Don't believe it? Read the story about Jack Hannah from TWO days ago. He had to spray a charging adolescent male brown bear three times before it halted and ran away. Imagine if that were a full-grown brown bear.

waye45: I am in no means drinking a latte or any of that other stuff you said. I do honor the farmers and military but I have no need to honor hunters. I think that hunting animals is disgusting and there is no need for it. I have no problem with camping, I have been camping. What I do have a problem with is people demonizing animals for being animals. Camping is fine as long as no harm is being made and people don't get all upset when stuff like this happens. You say you need to hunt to keep people safe. Well if humans weren't taking all the wilderness away from animals they would stay in their environment. Animals are getting too used to having humans around and this is the outcome. They are no longer afraid of humans. What do you expect to happen when you're in close proximity to wild animals?

I respect what you are saying sam but that is all in the past, Water under the bridge. We are talking about the present and yes men and women have made some bad choices in the past but to bring them up now to make someone feel guilty or bad about what happened years ago is self serving and does not solve the problems of today. It's not to say we should not look back at history but to use it in this context is not constructive.

Mary, bear spray won't work very well. Try banging two sticks together and saying "nice bear please don't eat me." Another foolproof way to protect yourself is to stay the hell out of bear territory. That would be my approach to bear safety.

Well I feel guilty every time I think about it. I still feel guilty because nothing has changed (in regards to how we treat natives and animals) since that time and it wont until people start realizing whats going on is wrong. If one has no emotional connection to history then why would anyone change for the better? "We" were the ones in the wrong, not the Native Americans and not the bear in this incident, and its time people take responsibility and make things better for the future.

Spray, this and bow and arrow that! Spray may not work and imagine trying to arm your bow in a tent with a bear on top of you...a magnum is best and if you can't hit a bear an arms length away, you probably shouldn't go camping.

Additionally, I don't get these people crabbing about white settlers from over 100 years ago. It wasn't me and it wasn't you and it wasn't every white person alive back then either. I feel no guilt, although, I do disagree with the way many people conducted themselves back then and even now. But, I'm not going to carry their crimes against humanity and nature on my shoulders. You go ahead and be a marter if you want to. Just don't be my marter and leave the rest of the whites out of it.

sam> Please reread my original post. I did not say Honor hunters you injected that word in there to serve your point or cause. The next time one my calves is mutilated by wild wolves I will send you a picture or maybe some parts of it. My grandchlidren need to be cautious when outside also. Keeping your reasoning in mind sam I should walk away from my farm and let the animals take over. Please be sensible it all looks and sounds nice on paper but this is the real world. Not some fantasy place in your head where everybody runs bare foot through a field with all god creatures smiling as they run by. Now let’s hear some realistic solutions to a real problem because I am not leaving my farm.

Humans have just as much of a right to be in Yellowstone park as bears do. And bears have just as much of a right to eat when they're hungry as humans do. Bears have just as much of a right to play with toys they find interesting as humans do. Bears have just as much of a right to protect their young as humans do. It is not a bears fault that you look delicious and/or fun to play with and/or threatening to their young!

If you want to co-mingle with nature, you run the risk of nature turning on you. It's a consequence to an action. As a camper in the wilderness you need to be prepared for such an event to occur or you have no business being out there in the first place. If you like to camp, but don't want to run the risk of being attacked by a bear, then camp in an area that isn't infested with bears! If you want the real wilderness experience, you should be prepared for and expect to run into some wilderness experiences!

Well Said Ms Michigan!!

I agree Ms, Its neither the wild life or humans fault but if you in a area where there is a chance of contact and maybe not in a good way then you need to protect yourself and others even if it means making some bear burgers for supper. A note hunting wolves in my state is still illegal even though they have made a good come back which is not all a bad thing. It is nice to see eagle’s , coy dogs and other wild life back. Even some that are very good eating such as turkeys. I see more of these animals now the ever before and it is not because there is less land around me, (my farm is still the same size it was years ago). It is because of environmental controls. I need to pay for special permits to hunt wolves off to protect my family and lively hood and I am limited to my land and number of them. I will never hunt them all if even if I could because like I said I respect nature and they are fun to watch when they are out with their pups if you lucky enough to see them, They are a shy animal. But can get bold if left of their own devices.

My bad for misquoting you, I didn't insert it there to "serve my point", what I meant was I appreciate what the soldiers and farmers do for this country but hunting for sport is disgusting. I don't think you should walk away from your farm, I had chickens that were killed by wild animals, granted they weren't bears but I understand your calf example. Its not your one farm that is effecting the wild life farms have been around for centuries in rural areas, it's the cities and developments we're setting up right next to habitats of animals that have no where else to go. The animals are then forced by no other choice to run recklessly through the suburbs while people complain that they be killed because they're at fault. Not to veer off topic but, just like the whole thing with the killer whale in sea world, the whale wasn't at fault it shouldn't have been forced to perform in the first place. People and wild animals are living too closely, animals have therefore lost their fear of humans. And seeing as I don't believe in god....

sam > you must believe in something. For person who does not believe in anything can be a dangerous person. I know you are not dangerous just yanking your chain. Anyway I do believe in god. Although I do not dwell on it or preach it. I just realized something I must be your worst nightmare I am Christian and I have guns. See I have sense of humor to. Oh by the way I have let people hunt my land and in one case I caught one of them shooting gray squirrels and just leaving them. Needless to say it was the last time he went on my land. Even though I do not need to I eat most everything I hunt and raise most of my beef and pork. Trying to save money. The old saying land rich farm poor. Thanks for the debate >sam

sam > You must believe in something. For person who does not believe in anything can be a dangerous person. I know you are not dangerous just yanking your chain. Anyway I do believe in god. Although I do not dwell on it or preach it. I just realized something I must be your worst nightmare I am Christian and I have guns. See I have sense of humor to. Oh by the way I have let people hunt my land and in one case I caught one of them shooting gray squirrels and just leaving them. Needless to say it was the last time he went on my land. Even though I do not need to I eat most everything I hunt and raise most of my beef and pork. Trying to save money. The old saying land rich farm poor. Pioneers’ hunters forged a lot of what this great country is now exploration and their beliefs. You may not agree with it but this country being what it now has done a lot of good in this world. Oh my I am patriot also strike 3. I am out. Thanks for the debate >sam

I never said anything wrong with being Christian I was raised roman catholic, I went to a catholic school and made my confirmation. Events in my life have just led me to come to my own conclusion on things. I do though see problems with blind faith and people not questioning what people tell them. But that doesn't seem to be you anyway. I see nothing wrong with responsibly owning guns. I think you are just failing to realize that we believe in a lot of the same things and just trying to argue a point that i don't disagree in. I don't understand how a lot of your last post had anything to do with what you were talking about before (ie: people hunting on your land, the pioneers) maybe i miss understood or maybe you just wanted to insert some final thoughts.

They were just final thoughts that is are all and you are right I do not follow blindly. I weigh things and use my own beliefs to come to my conclsions.We need to strike a balance because people are not going away and we need not worry neither are the bears

sam... I have to disagree with something you said earlier in this string. I lived in rural VA and I know plenty of people who hunt to feed their families, literally. By hunting, farming, they freeze food to get through the winters. I have never hunted personally and never will, but respectful hunting is a tradition in many parts of the world. I believe it is a right ~ again, I emphasize respectful hunting. You will find idiots everywhere who shoot to kill and don't use the meat or skins, shame on them. I get it.

Sam
We did do some terrible things to the natives of this country and the natives were very intuned with natue but if you study some history you will see that they could also be very cruel ie.(killing,inslaving and torture of other tribes)they also did kill buffalo in mass numbers using buffalo jumps. My point is we are all human for good or bad.

Army of Dad: "Properly deployed guns in appropriate calibers ...."

I assume you also recommend concertina wire, trip flares and Claymores ??

I am curious as to how many people that say we need guns in parks or that bears should be shot actually live in an area where wildlife is appreciated and respected. For some of us who live in Montana and other parts of the west we like living with nature and actually understand that when we go into the wilderness we are not the most powerful beings out there. Some of you should try it (go camping outside of an established campground) and learn your place in the world. Humans are just part of the food chain... and not always at the top. Wow!

No Bluto, but a well aimed shot from a .44 mag will do the job, but spraying a dozen .22s at a bear will not.

Fair enough. Maybe try camping somewhere else?

To the best of my knowledge, there was no sign saying there's going to be a bear attack here tonight.

To the best of my knowledge, there was no sign saying there's going to be a bear attack here tonight.

What? No sign saying "Tonight's low will be 50 degrees with a 60% chance of bear attack"?

Dear Sam, I live in Wyoming a deer walked through my yard last night { I live in town} should I burn my house down and kill myself to make you happy? Sometimes it seems as if you radical enviromentalists' agenda points in exactly that direction. Man is an animal why do you favor other animals over man? Back to the disscussion I feel badly for the injured and deceased but being attacked by a bear in this part of the country is only one of the hundreds of ways to be harmed. For the people who think that carrying a gun and or pepper spray will absolutely save you WRONG!!! There probably isn't one in a thousand people who can perform ANY type of function during a Grizzly charge or mauling. The first time you will be so afraid you will forget to BREATHE.

Hiker Dave - good point about obeying the park rules on food prep and storage. It is so easy to do. Unfortunately, camping is like everything else in life. People are either too stupid or too lazy to follow the rules, or feel that they are so special and entitled that the rules don't apply to them personally. In situations like these, the offenders are endangering everyone around them.

Of all the comments, your's is the most sensible I read. We go to the park to see the wild life we cannot see any where else. Why in the world would you do any thing to endanger yourself or your family! In 1960 was the first time I visited YNP. I saw people throwing paper plates where hamburgers had been pressed on them back and forth over bears heads. One went in the car window where a woman was sitting on the passenger side looking away from the action. When the bear went after the paper plate she screamed, the bear turned and ambled away. Of course it was not a grizzly but the point is to use common sense and obey the rules when in the park. Carry a gun-that is ridiculous! They will probably shoot an innocent bystander or wound the animal and that WILL sent it out on a killing rampage! Guns belong on the park rangers and wildlife management officers only!

Dare I say it - those were probably illegals who couldn't read enlish anyway and don't really care if they get you and me killed or care about following rules of any kind. There the cat is out of the bag, have fun.

Hate much?

We have no place to put a park or homes which is occupied by wildlife and expect this not too happen. If you do go to the park or build a home in a wildlife area then it's your fault if you get attacked. I scuba dive and sometimes sharks get a little nervy but if I get bit I would not put a kill order on the shark because ultimately it's my fault.

What? You want to kick the animals out of their natural habitat? That's ludicrous! What gives us the right to just go around shoving endangered species out of their homes? If people didn't camp so close to bears and other animals then they would still be afraid of humans and not go near any.... the problem is that these animals no longer see us as a threat but as part of their food chain because they are living so close to us.

... or nine.

I know-why don't we just kill every living thing in the parks? Who cares if the bears and other wildlife was there first, or if it's their natural habitat for millions of years, or the reason people get attacked is due to loss of habitat and encroachment or because people are just pigs and leave their garbage everywhere to attract the bears and distract them from their natural food supply, or maybe because the food supply is already gone and these animals are starving, or they have no where else to go. Yeah-just kill everything so it's 'safe'. Have it look like New York city while you're at it. That would be nice. Then you could pitch your tent in the middle of the highway.

Ummm, really? Putting sharks in the water at the beach?? Hint: THEY'RE ALREADY THERE! How do you propose they "get rid of the bears"?????? It's a NATIONAL PARK, ever been to one? They're really really big! They're going to do what, fence in the park? It's not like it's a 2 acre park in the middle of the city that they dropped a bunch of bears off at. WOW!

ChirsPA-575131: I'm really glad your post turned into sarcasm.... i was getting concerned for a bit lol

Couptaker:

Obviously, you have never been to Yellowstone. Most of the year, the park is "owned" by the animals - as it should be. It's really just about 3 months of the year that a lot of people are in the park as a "visitor". Some of those people being ignorant stupid idiots that have no business being in Yellowstone.

I go to Yellowstone every year. It never ceases to amaze how idiotic and stupid people act around wild animals. And ALL wild animals can be dangerous if not treated with the proper respect.

So sorry, I say take the ignorant idiots out of the park before you take a glorious grizzly out of the park.

Couptaker:

Are you for real??? I'm stunned by the ignorance of your post!! Good Grief - I hope you don't vote.

I have lived between Yellowstone and Glacier parks for fifty years Ive hunted bears with hounds for 30 of those years . I lived in the woods in a wall tent for five years with the horses and dogs my only company . Now I have a log cabin . Ive been to the parks .People around here laugh at the city people that go to the parks and think they are experiencing nature .. Long lines of cars armys of clowns walking up the trails with bells on there boots . The locals dont go near it . The bears are park bears they are not natural they see millions of people a year [Only 700000 live in the whole state of montana .]People are [eaten] buy those park bears every year . Its stupid to have camping where its not safe . Its like the park letting you drink water from a creek with [small pox ]small pox is endangered now you know ..

Lady, you are the ignorant one.

"I lived in the woods in a wall tent for five years with the horses and dogs my only company."

couptaker - that explains your inane post about bears having no place in public parks. You just don't get it. The parks were established to preserve sections of the nation in perpetuity. That includes the wildlife and natural features of those areas. It might not be a perfect system, but it surely beats allowing the lumber companies to raze the forests or allowing real estate developers to build condos that only the rich can afford.

You have no right to judge "city people" for visiting the parks to enjoy nature. Most people have no choice but to live in towns and cities if they want to earn a living and survive.

couptaker- You probably roll up on those city folk and tell them "You got a real purty mouth boy".

Hi tooke I though I remembered you buck teeth right .

Sorry couptaker, you are confused, that was your daddy waiting for you in the toolshed.

I'm confused. You think people "put" the bears there? If that's what you think, you've got it entirely backwards.

Couptaker - You hunt bears with hounds?! wow, thats a humaine way to kill a bear! You skin and stuff em' yourself too?!

Gosh you sound like a lovely person..

They put new ones there all the time ... They just dumped one in my back yard last week Most of the first brought in were from Canada and Alaska

Skin em and eat them Its alot better than deer kinda like chuck steak . I used to tan the hides but now I just throw them away .. I hunt lions all winter eat those too Its a white meat like pork ..

just had to respond to melbel; did you read the article. this wasn't a butt kicking. someone died. Do you love that? You have to be a child or drunk to say something as stupid as that.

Or someone that believes that nature has just as much right if not more than humans to live in peace

Live in Peace

Yes, I just laughed. Interesting version of peace.

Any time you go into nature; forest, jungle, ocean, you are susceptible to being attack by large predators. You have to understand that, and weight the risks. All the parks, preserves and oceans in the world were meant to be habitats for wild animals.

Heck, even if you go to certain parts of the city you can expect to be susceptible to being attacked by predators. No need to go to the forest, jungle or ocean for the thrill of feeling vunerable.

The whole earth is the animals habitat people, humans are the idiots who think we can "taem mother nature". One day we will all be wiped off like a mosqito and what animals are left will have free run of the place.

PS - I grew up hunting and camping and I don't think I would get a wink of sleep in griz country (or anywhere a large dominate predetor such as a lion lives). Brave or stupid I'll let all of you decide.

pepper spray is more effective. a 45 magnum would just irritate the bear

I would bet that if the lady in the tent had a gun and had started blazing away at the bear, she would have killed someone in her tent or a surrounding tent before she killed the bear.

This was in the National Forest, not a "park". So a gun would have been legal there. True, not a good idea to "start blazing away" in a crowded campground, but once the bear was mauling you (or someone else) I'll bet it could have been shot with little risk to bystanders.

There's no such thing as a ".45 magnum"-- .44 magnums are commonly carried for bear defense and have killed many attacking grizzlies. See "Bear Attacks- Their Causes and Avaiodance" by S. Herrerro.

Grizzly bears are very numerous and are at the limit of their biological carrying capacity in the greater Yellowstone wilderness. They are only endangered in a legal sense. Killing one that is mauling a person will not reduce their numbers by much and will remove that behavior fromt he population, making the environment safer for bears and humans both.

There are some very odd ideas here from urban/suburban people that have no direct experience with wildlife, much less grizzly bears, and no appreciation for the nature of the Northern Rockies, yet they would presume to dictate policy. This is a metaphor for public land-use policy.

I agree with you 100%.

The bear maybe the problem (think rabid or just plain crazy). And the prior group of people may have set up (inadvertently or stupidly) the bear in "training" it with easy food since the report (all I have to go on) doesn't show misbehavior of the affected campers.

This happens in urban areas every day, people who have no concept of keeping themselves safe and being aware of dangers inherent in the area. Think open mouthed tourist in a gang area, not looking out for themselves or watching for predators.

We are not going to ban people from the park, nor relocate or genocide the bears. So I think that this will happen here and there and is very sad when it does. The park does what it can to reduce bad human behavior, and remove dangerously behaving animals.

Wish I had an answer.

PS I made the point quickly in a way most could visualize, rabid or just plain crazy could be due to infection, or concussion, or diabeties, or brain cancer, or many other things. Just to avoid the whole "the bear wasn't rabid" trolls.

Agreed, it's kind of funny to watch some of those idiots get the crap knocked out of them for messing with those animals. There's a video and a bison throw a man about 20 in the air (sorry if he was hurt, not trying to make light of injuries). Warning folks: if you play with fire you might get burned. It would be wise to keep safe ditances between you and these very large animals, even a whitetail deer can put an asswhooping on you.

Yeah, TexRat! People for some reason, don't think "Bambi" will attack! They are sadly mistaken. Many people are badly injured by deer. Some killed. Especially during rut.

amen !

Couln't have put it better myself!! I am a Wyoming native and I thank you.

Their home was taken many years ago just like the Native Americans.

Very true. Just like the Native Americans.

Pepper spray.

.44

How 'bout a bazooka? Actually I will bring my whole gun safe and when a bear decides to eat me I will choose the appropriate gun and go for the kill shot. God forbid I hit it in the head and piss it off more. I don't believe killing a bear with a gun is as easy as people think, even for all those people who know they are expert bear killers.

Right On! Don't even sleep in the same clothes you cooked in. A bears nose is 100 times more sensitive than a humans.

Aren't people remotely edible?

Still I get your point and frankly I gave up 'roughing it' 20 years ago. While it's nice to visit nature during the daytime, give me a nice comfortable hotel at night.....

I'm with you Gneisenau!

I prefer a RPG myself. :) Bears are much more difficult to kill than most other animals. It's very difficult for a bullet to penetrate their fat deep enough to strike a vital organ and their skull is almost like shooting through armored plate. It's very hard and rounded and so bullets tend to skip off it.

You're better off with a very large caliber very high powered rifle (12 gage slugs are pretty much like a freight train, but I'm not sure how well they will penetrate a bear.) with a high powered handgun as back-up. I think that unless you are experienced at hunting bear, your best chance is to hit them and then staying out of their reach until they bleed out. One shot kills are not very easy, especially when you're distracted with all that liquid stuff running down your legs.

Being a faster runner than the guy next to you is also a large plus....

Frankly what it all comes down to is you are just much better off not ticking off a bear to start with.

Isn't illegal to kill a grizzly bear? And why would you hunt bear anyway? Deer and other smaller wild game, sure, but do you live off the bear meat? (and I support hunting rights before someone decides to freak out on me, just asking a question!)

Don't know about the different types of bears, but you can buy bear meat legally. It is yummy.

And unless sanctioned you don't hunt in National Parks unless you are reprehensible and deserving jail time. And I have NO idea how you would be sanctioned or if that is even possible.

@lmv77 - Hunting bear is legal at least in some places, it's also OK for self-defense. I personally don't care for bear meat, it's tough and stringy and greasy. Most people I knew who did hunt the things made mostly bear sausage. I personally think that one bear makes more than a life time supply of sausage.

Off the top of my head I don't know every state that allows some kind of bear hunting. I know Alaska does. I never hunted bear when I lived there, but knew people who did. I did live in one spread out town where the bear population inside the city limits out numbered the human population but I only ever saw one or two the whole time I was there.

Gneisenau#22.1, good post. You don't have to be able to outrun a grizzly (about 100yds. in 6 seconds). You just need to outrun your tent/hiking mate. And toss him/her a pastrami sandwich as you pass them by just for insurance.

OMG! Canemah, I couldn't stop laughing, when I read your post. The image just came up in my head, and I laughed until tears. Very funny!

I think thats a great idea! Just like how they have the whistles you can put on your car that make a noise only animals can hear that stop them from running in front of your car. I think they should be standard on every vehicle.

They do at larger campgrounds. At Lake Louise in Banff, they have an electrified perimeter fence around the campground. In Yellowstone at Fishing Bridge, only hard sided campers are allowed. The campground that this incident took place at is pretty remote from it's description and I'm sure there was a Grizzly Bear warning posted. They won't do much more than post signs at small campgrounds.

OK then, how about a personal parimeter warning system that allows you to only enter/exit through a narrow opening. At least that would give you time to arm yourself, or discourage entrance from unwanted intruders. Or, is there a silent sound that bears don't like and we can't hear? Like a dog whitstle or bark suppressor? Just fishin' here...

we didn't put a man on the moon. That was staged.

I do not think it is right to put this bear to death!

The bears should demand reparations

You stay home, we live here!