Illegal is illegal. Got to love how far this administration will go to prevent the law from being upheld.

The Constitution does not say anything about the states not being able to enforce federal law. It does discuss that the federal government will be in charge of immigration though. Since the Arizona law matched the federal law, it IS constitutional.

Read the Constitution.

Don- the law will eventually be determined to be Constitutional. AZ is simply enforcing a federal law at the state level, much like local and state police departments enforcing bank robbery which happens to be a federal crime. Other federal crimes include kidnapping and some drug offenses. Are the states not to enforce these either because they discriminate against the drug user, the pedophile, and bank robbers?

Don the law is constitutional. The minority who are against the law are the problem And based on this section of the article, the problem is NATION-WIDE!

During the first half of 2010, lawmakers in all 50 states introduced 1,374 bills and resolutions seeking in some way to restrict or eliminate illegal immigration, according to data compiled by the National Conference of State Legislatures. Lawmakers passed 319 of them, in 44 states. (Five of those were vetoed.)

The average American, has to live with this problem everyday. Yet, those in the "Ivory Tower" seem to think our experiences do not merit fixing the problem (or even exist!) It is time to make the "Ivory Tower" see the truth. Mr President, you do not represent the views of the majority of your citizens and you are putting them in danger by pursuing this dangerous policy. Additionally, you need to enforce Federal Law, not look for ways to circumvent it. Give AZ the help it needs or get out of the way of them protecting it's citizens! How many people have to die, be kidnapped, tortured, stolen from, or terrorized before you get it?

Congress needs to act and make the abuse of our immigration laws a FELONY.

The ultimate solution to this issue is to penalize - seriously - employers who hire undocumented workers. No jobs, no incentive to come here or to stay here. Except for the purely criminal element, that will be dealt with by law enforcement.

The argument that this targets Mexicans is getting old. OF COURSE it will identify more illegal Mexicans than it will any other group...but that is because of the ENORMOUS amount of illegals from Mexico in the area! This argument is nothing more than affirmative action for crime enforcement!

It's math people! Probablity and population.

Hmmmm...do you think there are more Mexicans coming across the Mexican border or more Czechs? Hmmm...

Bluto...ABSOLUTELY!

Watch the movie Food, Inc. This has specifics on how a large company uses INS to keep a fresh stream of illegals in it's workforce! Amazing, the corruption (though not surprising).

Bluto II...The Federal Government does seriously penalize employers who hire Illegal Aliens. The Federal Judge that Ruled in the Arizona case actually struck down a part of the law that would prohibit Illegal Aliens from seeking employment.

Please explain that rational....It is illegal to hire them but not illegal for them to seek employment!

Very cool that Obama ran on "hope and change" and stirred up the American people to fix this country. He really motivated this country to pay attention and better ourselves.

Now that everyone is awake, he has been exposed. Wow, he did this to himself!

The ultimate solution to this issue is to penalize - seriously - employers who hire undocumented workers

Bluto, while I agree that employers should be penalized for hiring illegals; the question becomes, "Are employers going to continue to be allowed to check immigration status?" Employers have no law enforcement authority. If law enforcement officers can't check immigration status, how can employers? Oops, hopefully I didn't just give the progressives an idea.

Don, get a clue.... The Obama administration is ONLY goingto uphold the part of the constitution that helps HIS socialistic/communistic goals. That piece of crap in charge of the DOJ must have a hard time sitting because his butt must hurt from having Obama's hand up it making his mouth move, just like any other DUMMY!!!!

And you have a JUDGE in AZ that MUST have the same affliction. I guess that LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS are going to have to take the matter in hand themselves and vote the IDIOTS out of Washington. But then you would have to ASSume that they are intelligent to make good decisions and so far they have not. Such Rangel, Marion Barry, Ted Stevens, John Kerry and so on. Absolute power corrupts and so OUT Roman equivalent is BROKEN and needs to be fixed and NOT the laws of the land. If the butts in Washington would enforce what is already on the books and shoot, remove or kick out the invaders from MEXICO rather than looking the other way in HOPES of getting NEW Obama voters, then this would NOT be an issue. Employers should not be fined for hiring illegals, their businesses should be confiscated and the owners JAILED or even better, make them move to Mexico. But according to the STRICT immigration laws in Mexico, they would not be allowed to stay and would be deported BACK TO THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM.

DO YOU GET IT ILLEGALS??????????????????

Atlas, you make a good point. This e-verify system only checks to see if a valid social security number was given.

I wonder how many jobs I have out there?

My ancestors came from Poland and Italy in the early 1900's. Both went through Ellis Island. What it seems to me is that Hispanics seemingly don't want to go through the immigration process that ALL our ancestors did. I didn't see this big deal with if Polish dial 1, Italian dial 2, and on and on. English was the language and they had to learn it. NO, we don't need Spanish as a first language, second language, or any other. ENGLISH is the language here----LEARN IT!!! Go through the immigration process, become a citizen, and we'll welcome you here. As for amnesty, It's a revolving door. How many have we had. Crack down on illegals. Crack down on those who hire them----big fines and jail. This will go on and on until the Feds enforce THEIR laws..

AtlasWillShrug,

I am a Lawful Permanent Resident and I have to show my Green Card to every employer. They are required by fedral law to make sure that I am not only in the US legally, but also authorized to work in the US - the two above are completely different issues as you can be authorized to live in the US, but forbidden to seek employment: for example spouses and children of people on H1B visa, or O1 visa can do a lot of things, but not work legally.

So the Federal Government has given the green light for illegal aliens to continue breaking our laws, laws that when they were sworn into office they promised to uphold ? ? ? ?

Now It's Time For We Americans To Make A BIG " Change " ! ! ! !

Stan,

What you may not realize is that becoming an American Lawful Permanent Resident, and eventually a citizen is impossibly difficult these days for normal, honest people.

As a result the only people you get in the US are the dishonest ones who work the system - anchor babies, chain immigration and so on.

A decent, hard working person with higher eduction from Europe has no incentive to go through the living hell of US immigration process.

It took me 8 years to get a Green Card through legal channels. Now I had to go back to EU for some time and a DHS officer can literally deny me the entry to the US at his/her whim if I am gone longer than a few months (tends to happen if you work for a multi-national mega-corporation and you do something actually useful - the reason I got a Green Card in the first place).

There are other Draconian measures put on lifes of Lawful PermRes that sometimes make me wish to be back on a visa again.

I can't speak for all employers, but for virtually every job that I was hired for I had to furnish my SS card and driver's license and sign that statement saying that I am a US citizen. Every traffic stop I've ever had, I was asked for my license, registration, and proof of insurance. You're automatically getting put into the computer to validate that info and check for outstanding warrants etc. EVERYBODY! IF that computer says you have no license. you're not driving any further. You are now in violation. I think it'd be OK and not too time consuming to check if you're an illegal or not? A police officer can detain you long enough to ascertain the facts. I see no problem at all.

This judge was bought and sold; it’s as simple as that. In fact, in her white house ordered attempt to gut as much of the law as possible she had to violate federal immigration law herself. One blatant example was her removal of the requirement that non-citizens carry their immigration documentation, be it a visa, passport or green card, at all times. This is a federal requirement she obviously was ordered to ignore.

Finally, while Arizona law enforcement, by her order, cannot be required to ask for immigration documentation, they retain the option to ask for this documentation at their own discretion. The Arizona law was good and legal legislation and will eventually be upheld by the Supreme Court.

The roberts court will strikedown the Arizona law when it comes up. I just watched a border sheriff on TV say the law is bad and poorly written. Brewer herself has lied over and over about the illegal problem and has folks on her staff that will make MILLIONS off the Arizona taxpayer. The government has deported a record number of illegals which would be a good thing under normal political times. You think building a wall in Arizona is expensive...wait till you see the cost for building a wall up north from coast to coast. If what the right is saying is true, we have to build it. TRILLIONS!! This whole thing is a political stunt by the gop to keep Americans at each others throat!

PAX, You did it and I do understand all you're saying, but is it fair to you to do what you did; then, give 10 million people a free ride? Wouldn't you wonder why you did it all and what for? The government has to be the largest paper consumer in the world---document this----document that. They have files on you, the person that wrote the files, the co. that made the paper----you get the point. Shorten the process--OK---make it easier---OK, but no free ride.

PAX - that is a very good point. All the people who want to do things legally are hindered, while the criminals are green-lighted. I applaud your efforts to become a citizen even in the face of the red tape.

Part of the problem is that anybody from Europe is probably seen as a liability as they would have more than a 6th grade education, therefore can think and therefore are not going to a mindless member of the illiterate low class welfare population that the Democrats depend upon for their voting base. That is a problem.

The big problem is people like this guy:

“There is a general perception that since there are so many million Hispanics here illegally that the whole Hispanic community is less worthy to be in this country,” Villacis said. “That will continue to get worse until there is reform.”

It's not that Hispanics are "less worthy" in general, it's that they are here ILLEGALLY. The speaker admits that himself. I wonder what Mexico would do if I snuck over the border into Mexico City and started sucking up resources while demanding that they speak English.

I do not understand how national sovereignity and international law applies to everybody BUT Mexicans sneaking across the border. None of the apologists can explain this, other than to say that if the illegals are here already, then they should be allowed to stay.

In other words, if a burglar breaks into your house to beat you up and steal from you, you should let him stay, because he is from Mexico. Really.

This is all kind of a moot point, because we have seen what "hope and change" looks like, and it's not what we need. Wait for November.

Exactly Stan. Whenever I've been stopped for any thing , it's always license, registration, and proof of insurance. These documents are always with me when I drive as I know they would be asked for. No Problem. As soon as someone has no license, they should be checked out thouroughly to just see if they are who they say they are, If they're wanted for any other crimes etc. This seems fair and just.

The whole argument about discrimination has me puzzled. Are there some crimes that are not illegal, or conversely, is there such a thing as a legal crime? Is enforcing the law on an illegal crime different than enforcing the law on a legal crime? Are we discriminating against legal criminals when we try to bring them to justice to answer for their legal crimes?

Let's say an "undocumented migrant" (illegal alien) is operating as an "unlicensed pharmacist" (drug dealer). Is serving justice on either of these crimes discriminatory? Justice is rooted in law. Is the law relative to illegal aliens discriminatory? Is the law relative to drug dealers discriminatory?

Illegal is not necessarily illegal. It is a civil, not a criminal offense. And many came here legally but for various reasons, their visa expired. They have been here for some time and they did not swim across a river or scale a wall.

Amend the Constitution. Get rid of Amendment XIV and make it retro-active to 1990.

arizona should fill all the state controled busses with illegals and haul them to washington dc.

I wonder if people would feel Ok with the police having a camera in every traffic light, every corner, every Stop sign, and persecute anyone who committed an illegal U-turn, or went by yellow light as it turned red, or stopped their car a quarter of the way over the Stop sign line?

Anyone in the in right mind would understand there's no need for the police to take it that far.

People are people and will do things that might be considered illegal but that doesn't mean every action has to be accounted for.

Let's just relax and be practical about this. No need for concentration camps here, OK?

If a state police officer makes a stop and suspects someone of being a terrorist (breaking federal laws) should they let them go?

Stan,

I strongly support any and all anti-illegal-immigration measures for the very reason of what I had to go through.

I was merely poiting out another issue: the quality of immigration to the US sucks, because the government discourages honest, English-speaking, educated people from comming to the USA.

It absolutely annoys the living crap out of me that while every liberal cries over the illegal immigrants in the US, nobody pays attention to how dificult it is to be a legal immigrant in the USA - and nobody wants to make it easier.

One fo the most outragous issues is that they make it as dificult as possible for my family members to visit me in the USA.

The reason is: you guessed it - the chain illegal immigration from Mexico. But while a Mexican can walk across the border to visit his Green Card relatives (and stay illegaly), my relatives have to pay 1500 bucks for a flight ticket comming for Christmas, and come on - my dad makes more money than I do - do you really expect him to stay illegaly in the USA and wash dishes for 1/10th of what he is making now in Germany???

Imagine, white folks came here and instead of looking at this beautiful continent and say, "What a marvel! There's room for everyone" they went ahead and killed off most of the 5 million native indians on the land, brought over slaves from Africa, then went west and southwest and got rid of hispanics and took over their land, then when they saw the blacks run away and say "No more slavery" they chased after blacks and lynched them.

So this anti-"illegal" feeling has been here all along and many whites have not been able to get over it.

Come on, guys, give it a rest and let's ALL enjoy this most wonderful country for once.

If a half a million people ran the same stop light every year you bet your sweet ass the cops would patrol that intersection. They may not catch evey violator but enforce the code they would. All arizona is asking the fed to do is enforce the code...

The current Federal government's stance on illegal immigration has nothing to do with securing the border. It's all about Chicago politics and more corruption brought to Washington to garner money and power.

Saul Alinsky said (paraphrased) always accuse your opposition of doing what you are doing and admit nothing!

In order to secure to border Washington must first be secured. Vote em all out!

unt-1263073 said: "The roberts court will strikedown the Arizona law when it comes up. I just watched a border sheriff on TV say the law is bad and poorly written."

Was it a real border sheriff? Some people will say or do anything to get their point across.

Your wrong! The fed wants local police to enforce fed laws all the time. They want locals to enforce bank robbery, kidnapping, and terrorist acts, which are federal crimes. But now they are telling locals not to enforce illegal alien laws. The fed is being selective and in doing so they are harboring these criminals and allowing the invasion to continue. The feds are not doing what they are there to do.

It's time we vote all of them out, after a few election cycles, we will have elected officials that will respect their constituents power!

wag:

"Illegal is not necessarily illegal. It is a civil, not a criminal offense."

Actually, according to federal immigration laws, it is a federal crime to be in this country illegally, whether by entering the country illegally, or staying past the time a visa allows you to stay. It is a criminal offense. You may not think it's a crime worth pursuing (I don't agree with that), but it is still a criminal offense.

So..., can this be interpretted as the Federal government more or less declaring war on the 65% of all Americans who support this, and similar measures throughout the country? Obama has clearly divided this nation. Rich vs poor. Black vs white. Fed vs states. Right vs left. What's next?

Ok esam, keep our borders open and let everybody to came to this land of opportunities, let the goods, the bad and the uglies and you will see how this beautiful country turn in to hell. However if you read the history of our civilization ( only2 thousand years before ) you will see what Romans , Greeks, Incas and Mayan did. The past is history, move on and look at the future, we can make a difference but we must obey the rules as long they are in place. New rules can change the old ones Obama is against to enforce our immigration law political reasons....the hispanic vote, enforce the immigrations law is not in his liberal agenda.

Get over yourself Esam. Go read history for once. Then you'll learn the history behind the indians and mexicans. What happened to the blacks was wrong though. The law is the law. Are you against it OR for it, thats as simple of a question you can ask an American. Go take a video camera down to Mexico, cross the border and see what happens to you.

I just read that local police have the right to enforce federal immigration laws in international waters along with the Coast Guard to protect the water borders. If they can do it out there to protect water borders, they should have the same abilities to do it on land. MSN just had the story about a group of people boating in international waters. They then started to come into US waters where the local police stopped them and searched their boat. In the end, 2 people were considered non-citizens and were arrested and taken away.

There are a ton of federal laws that state official are required to enforce. That's part of the Federal Funding that every state receives. I know in my city, Federal agents work side by side with local police to monitor drug and gun trafficking.

This law helps the Federal Government enforce all the different immigration laws passed decades ago. They should be thankful and stop wasting time and tax payer money on criminals. We don't need them!

Esam:

"So this anti-"illegal" feeling has been here all along and many whites have not been able to get over it."

It's not just "whites" that want to enforce immigration laws. It's American citizens from many different races, it's legal immigrants who went through all of the red tape and obtained their right to be here and their eventual citizenship the legal way. It's not about race, it's about illegal immigrants coming here and taxing our resources when they shouldn't be here in the first place.

"Come on, guys, give it a rest and let's ALL enjoy this most wonderful country for once."

Well, that's awesome. So does that mean if I want to go to Mexico, I can just go across the border, and then the police should leave me alone? Because if I entered Mexico illegally and was stopped by police without any documentation allowing me to be there, do you think they would just let me go? I would be lucky if they were to send me back to the US, nevermind let me continue living in Mexico.

Should we all just be allowed to wander in and out of countries as we please, completely undocumented? In a perfect world, sure. But this isn't a perfect world. This is reality, and the reality is immigration needs to be regulated in order to protect a country, its citizens and its resources.

This is not a race issue. They are trying to make it a race issue because they have no real argument as to why they should be allowed to break the law. This is ridiculous.

It is not racist to enforce the laws of your country. And I agree with PAX the IMMIGRATION system needs to be fixed. It is a major part of this problem.

These people are selfish for expecting something for nothing. Too many other people have to wait years to go through the legal process to get here yet the illegal immigrants are griping because they are being told they are not welcome because they are breaking the law and getting ahead of so many other law abiding people who should be here.

Wake up Fed. Your country is calling.

I don't care what race someone is. If they come here legally that's great. But everyone should have an equal chance to get here and they shouldn't have to wait a decade to do it.

Wow Esam, a little racist are ya? I never killed a native American or owned a slave; I find the idea of either completely sickening. The fact that things like that did occur has nothing to with the sovereignty of this country. I have no problem with anyone's race but I do have a problem with those who refuse to follow the laws of our country. If immigrants want to come to our country then they need to follow the procedure for becoming an AMERICAN citizen. Is it easy, no its not, but if all they had to do was sign a couple of forms then the national security of our country would be under constant threat. So stop spewing your divisive/racist hate speech and realize that we're all Americans and embrace being an American; don't disparage white people because of your racist biases. Let go of your hate.

don't worry everyone! obama has now opened the door for the US to take his obamacare to court and prove that its way more unconstitutional than this law (which is already federal law)... after awhile this "federal law" will become an actually enforced law and obamacare will be gone! yay! 2 birds with one stone!

My husband and I very seldom give money to political causes. However, we sent a donation last night to KEEP AZ SAFE and recommend everyone else who supports this cause do the same. It is not tax deductible, but is an excellent cause to keep our country safe.

I may as well stick my nose out there and take the hit. The REAL issue is not illegal immigration and the FED's failure to enforce the laws. It's votes----that simple. BO and the Dem's are nurturing the Hispanic vote. Even their own pundits say that. I saw one state that they don't want to make immigration an issue prior to the election and the Hispanic vote means little now, but it will. They want amnesty because out of 11 million illegals or so, most will go Democratic. They'll tell you that themselves. They do not want to send the illegals back and make them go through the process. They, and this is a quote, want to do it "in place". Make them citizens while they're here. I can't remember the guys name, but he's a diehard Dem.

Why in the hell is federal dollars being used to block this? They have more rights than citizens, and the libs intend to prove it to us.

Well smann, I hope it works out that way but dont hold your breath. I'm not saying vote out all incumbants, vote out the liberal douchebags that have taken this country over. Also, Maine vote out Collins and Snowe, S. Carolina vote out Lindsey Graham, Massachussets you might as well get rid of Scott Brown because he has been about worthless, Arizona you should have chosen Hayworth of McCain... stupid. Get rid of the liberals and the headaches who call themselves republicans.

I believe the judge that made the ruling was under an enormous amount of political pressure from all sides and made this decision to appease everyone.

It does not matter if the illegal aliens invading my country are all well behaved, hard working, clean, healthy, honest people, or even if they pay taxes. The World is full of good, hard working, honest people. That has nothing to do with the fact that they are invading my country without asking for permission to even be here. It is our choice of who, how, when, and how many, if any, may be here legally. It doesn't matter if this drug war killings stop or any of that, the fact is they have not been invited, and this is not their country. Even if they apply for Citizenship, that does not mean we automatically give it to them. Their getting permission is based on our needs and wants, not theirs. And I am not interested in giving the message to the world, that if you can get in any way you can, and get as many chances as it takes and you make it, then we welcome you

we should all contact our republican congressmen (and by this i mean actual republicans who are fighting for the people, not "republicans" who just do things for votes) and get them to try obamacare as being unconstitutional. and if obama refuses then when the republicans hopefully take congress back over in november they can overpower obama to have it tried fairly... instead of having obama "assign" the case to bolten or some othere democratic judge in the supreme court

The question is "Can we afford it?" (No) Who will pay for the round up? (Taxpayers), will we agree to pay more taxes? (No). Do we have money to pay for the manpower and facilites to detain and deport illegals? (No) American, stop with the shoulda, coulda, need to dream list. Put your money were your mouth is. Unless, we are willing to pay 30-50% more taxes, then yes we could make that happen.

I live in Michigan where there is also a fairly large Mexican population. There is a restaurant/grocery store near me in Pontiac where on the lunchcounter are stacks of business cards printed in Spanish. On it, the person advertises to file federal tax returns "with or without Social Security numbers". Evidently, this is a way for illegials to use someone elses SS# for employment. I have a feeling that some smart person is having 20 different illegials pay SS tax under his # -- and he will be the benificiary of it somewhere in the future. (I wonder if they are all also using his name for employment? LOL) I imagine that this happens all over the US!

Esam is, of course correct, if a bit simplistic. "GO READ HISTORY"? I might make the same suggestion to you because you certainly don't know what you are talking about.

We DID engage in the 18th and 19th century versions of "ethinic cleansing" with regards to the indigenous people we found on this continent. We took their land, moved them off their hereditary lands and sent them here, to Oklahoma, we killed them, imprisoned them on reservations, starved them, infected them with diseases and made little attempt to educate or integrate them into our society. I suggest your read BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE or SON OF THE MORNING STAR.

Slavery. The triangle trade, Molasses, Rum and Slaves. We were the last of the so-called "civilized" countries to abolish it. The Texans declared their independence from Mexico (or attempted to) so they could keep their slaves and smuggle goods into that country without paying import duties. Mexico never recognised their independance and objected to the annexation of Texas by the US in 1845. So, we invaded Mexico and after defeating her armies we took nearly half their country away from them. I'm talking about Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, Utah and California.

All in the name of "Manifest Destiny". What's that? That is the 19th century belief that "God gave us this country", apparently from coast to coast and therefore it was God's will that we go forth and seize the promised land, by any means necessary. Bob Dylan wrote a poignant song about it, "With God on our Side." Look up the lyrics if you are not familiar with it.

There were Mexican populations in New Mexico and California which were forcibly "americanized".

The above is historical fact, not fantasy (I'm looking at you Texas) and not political propaganda. Read almost any book on the Texas revolution written in the last decade since the Mexican Government opened their files to historians. Read "SO FAR FROM GOD" by David Eisenhower for a heart-breaking account of the 1846 War.

The Spanish American War of 1898, was a war created in large part by Hearst to sell newspapers. Read any book on the war (except Rooseveldts, because he was there to have fun) , there are several.

The 2002 Invasion of Iraq was not America's first "made up war". We have a history of it. Isn't it time we grew up? Isn't it time we so-called christians behaved according to the teachings of Jesus?

Esam, your historical sketch is sadly correct.

For one police still can ask if a person is legals in this country for the judge said only that they wasn't require to but didn't say they couldn't. if they stop you for speeding they have the right to run you and see if you have any warrants again you and make sure you are who you say you are that will give them the right to go after illegals.

If the citizens give up and stop fighting the government over this, it will be bad for they will end up losing their country for Mexico will end up taking this country over period. You never give anyone the right to break any law like Obama and this judge did, allowing them a free pass. which show our government care more about non citizens than the real citizens of this country.

Yesterday was a sad day for the citizens and their country for they found out what their government think of them which is not much.

skip nicholson... fine then we'll just give back Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, Utah and California. then when mexico screws them up just as bad as they've screwed up their own country, the mexicans in those states will flee to other US states... you can all keep looking into the past, but the fact remains that this is our land NOW. mexicans flee mexico for a hope of a better future, and people like you just want us to give the ancient mexican land back to the mexican govt, which the mexican people are trying to flee anyway... the point is this is our land now and there are legal ways to immigrate and illegal ways. illegal is illegal and this administration doesn't seem to understand that... i understand where you're coming from and im not trying to be an ass, but i hate the arguement that its their ancient land so they deserve a chance or whatever.

I realize that all Mexicans are not drug cartels, but when the city of El Paso warns it's peace officers against attacks by drug cartels----BS. When they start digging up bodies in AZ as a result of these drug feuds--- BS. When we have Mexican drug cartels threatening our towns and people and our cops, we don't like that. Now, I guess we can't get after these guys because it's racial profiling. All it's going to take is a few of our officers getting killed by these cartels and this blog will become "baby talk".

Not all of us American believe in Jesus who isn't here and wouldn't have a clue on how to run a country. Religion do not belong in government for the people who has been brain wash by a church is being told what to vote for or who to vote for, funny your preacher is the one who decide and it is his belief who is better or what to vote for. No God is coming down to tewll him any of this stuff it is all in the head nothing more.

If God is everyone father than why would a father want you to live in fear of him all of your life, doesn't make sense to me. By the way you have never had anyone come back from death and told you their is a God have you, fact out do faith any day.

don: And before you comment on Newsvine, try using the spellcheck feature. "Weather" is for "weathermen". You know. Like Bill Ayres and his wife.

I would like to sue this judge for her depriving me of my fundamental rights as a a LEGAL American citizen to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

It's amazing how far obama and his handlers will go to try and solidify a voting block. They started with the unions now they have moved on to the Illegals. They've made this an immigration issue when, in fact, it is nothing more than a law enforcement issue. Obama and the ignorant, uninformed that support his position are making this a racial and immigration issue when it is solely a legal vs illegal issue. I support immigration, done in accordance with our laws, I'm against supporting illegals. I am opposed to anyone, minority or not, entering and staying in this country illegally. Obama, stop running for re-election for a moment and enforce the laws you pledged to support.

jdl, your insight into Christianity is almost as inaccurate as your grammar.

If you want to talk discrimination, lets talk about how our government discriminates against those of us that pay our taxes and are legally here all the while giving it away through loopholes and programs to illegal aliens. Our government discriminates daily against the citizens of which it is suppose to protect. Our consititution and government/government programs are meant to protect the citizens of this nation, not people from a different country who have came here illegally.

oskar-1391552

You need to get your history right. Access of citizenship was extremely limited in Greece, especially Athens. Metics (resident aliens) had very limited rights in the city, and for a while, you have to prove that your mother and father were a citizen-woman and a citizen and that their parents were too and so on and so forth to be a citizen. In Rome, an entire war that crippled the peninsula was held over access to low-level (not even full) citizen rights in the early C1 BCE. Eventually, Rome realized that it had to expand citizenship and allow easy access to citizen-standing our the economy, military, and infrastructure of the peninsula would fall apart. Rome stood for another 700 years with open access to Romanhood. ANOTHER SEVEN-HUNDRED YEARS, and their fall had nothing to do with a broad, easily-accessed citizen base.

FACT: More illegals have been deported under the "Communist" Obama administration than under the Bush administration. Enough with the talking points.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/25/AR2010072501790.html

And while some illegals probably work for cash under the table, many obtain false documents for employment. These are people who are paying taxes into the system, and will never see the benefits:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

On top of paying payroll taxes illegals pay rent, buy groceries, clothes, goods, etc., which includes many local and state taxes. Plus, these people are still consumers of goods. If they're not here, that's 12 million people not contributing to our consumer-based economy.

When companies hire illegals, many in the meat processing industry, they are able to keep costs lower. Using citizens increases the costs of production, which, ultimately, get passed on to other consumers. Think of it like an additional tax on goods.

Lastly, instead of spending millions of dollars for people to monitor the borders, the reason that illegals come here is for work and to make a better wage. If there's a meth problem in a city, you don't arrest every user to fix the issue. You shut down the meth labs. To really fix the problem with illegals, you have to start with the employers hiring them.

The only way to really fix the problem is for these illegal aliens to take charge of their own country, so they wouldn't have to come here. I guess its easier to flee especially when the neighbor is willing to steal from its own citizens in order to make it easier on those here illegally.

I have no idea what you just said jdl. Skip, Oh... so what you're saying is that Mexico has a different take on the Texas Revolution than we do... imagine that... the enemy in a war having a different perspective than we do... Nnnnooo, surely you jest.

Have their been wrongs committed thoughout human history? Well of course. In every culture, in almost every country wrongs have been committed against one group of people or another. If you have a problem with the heinous acts that certain individuals participated in throughout history, build a freaking time machine and go piss and moan to them. All we can do is live in the present and do what is right, now. It is important not to let those who hate our country use past injustices to destroy what we have now. Our country and our government are not perfect (especially right now), but it is the closest you can get to perfection and it has done more for the world in the last 100 years than any other Monarchy, Empire, Communist state, etc.. has done in previous human history. There are people in this country and throughout the world who view the USA as one big injustice that needs to be punished and brought down to every other country's level, for example Skip here. They want to turn os into a "social democracy" then open our borders; which will bankrupt us. They threaten our sovereignty, our exceptionalism, the individuality that makes this country great. They want amnesty, they want one big utopian Pancea where everyone is equally miserable and merit and individuality have no place. I'm still proud to be an American and equally proud to be a Texan.

If all the illegial aliens from Mexico were crossing our borders with guns (unregistered) do you think the Dems might care a bit more? Sadly, they would likely just want to confiscate their weapons and register them to vote.

No one knows for sure but one estimate stats 400,000 to 1 million cross the 1969 mile US Mexican border each year. More than 1.2 million illegal immigrants were apprehended by the Border Patrol in 2005. The Border Patrol statistics estimate they arrest 1 out of 5 illegal aliens. In 2010 over 170K apprehensions of illegal immigrants have been made in the 260 miles of the Tucson Sector. Do the math, it does not add up to a secure border. I don’t know that the BO Admin can spin those figures into a secure border to justify stopping the AZ bill. IMHO the U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton decision is: since the Feds don’t enforce the US law on illegal immigration neither should Arizona. That’s just wrong!

ANY law that requires that I carry identification is unconstitutional and wrong. We need to target employers who hire illegals NOT check everybody's ID every time there is a suspicion. That said, I do believe that if a person is convicted of ANY crime, then their immigration status can and must be checked.

@ skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City: Same thing to you, get over yourself. That was more than 100 years ago. Don't like the history of your country? Go to another country, more than likely you will find some negative to say about that country's history too, if not worse. Read non-bias history books or books in general. You'd be very surprised how often the text in the books actually change from year to year. There is alot of politics involved with the history books. Its called propaganda. We are and have been the most civilized country in the history of time. I am proud to be an American, no matter what our past. I keep my eyes forward, not behind. I am SELFISH when it comes to where my tax money is spent. I DONT want it spent on illegals PERIOD. I have my LEGAL children that need that money more. My ancestors died to give me this country and the freedoms. I dont want someone else who doesn't give TWO CRAPS for my COUNTRY, coming over and taking my children's future. Kiss my ass if you feel different. Right now, the majority of illegals are mexicans. They don't care for my country, they would rather use my country's benefits, not pay their taxes, and send $45 billion dollars a year back to a country that can't pull itself out of the 3rd world category for longer then we have been around. This country was built off of patriotism. There are people around the world that want to come over and be legal and give back into the pot of this great country. Illegals DO NOT WANT TO, SHOW ME WHERE THEY WANT TO DO THIS.

I think everybody has been missing the point. As a member of all legal immigrants who have been coming here for generations, legally, here is our problem with this:

1. Legal immigration has its associated fees for all the forms and applications we must fill out. Legal immigrants paid those fees, for generations.

2. There is a line for legal immigration, the per year rate of legal immigration into US is finite. Legal immigrants stood in this line.

Both the fees and waiting time are facts that can be verified with the US gov. "You don't know how much we have to sacrifice and go through to jump the fence" depends only on your story-telling ability. "Oh yeah, I swam across the whole Pacific Ocean with my hands and feet tied in order to get here, too."

We paid fees and stood in line, they didn't. So now it's ok to stop paying fees in anything we do here? Are there going to be lots of lines on Black Friday? F the lines too, we have the Constitution.

ACLU, help us sue the gov for making us pay fees and wait, while they didn't, that's discrimination.

Also help us sue all companies that only has Spanish as the other alternitive language in their phone systems, that's discrimination against all other non-Spanish speaking minorities.

DispName, (from 1.71) good luck when the cop pulls you over and asks for your ID if you're caught speeding or passing a red light. Tell the cop that carrying your ID is inconstitutional, let me know how that goes for you.

I wouldnt be mad with the Gvmnt and the DOJ department going after AZ, IF they did the same to San Diego and the other Sanctuary Cities.

Educated Liberal,

The problem with your analogy is that the businesses are more akin to the users, the illegal workforce is the meth they are addicted to, and the federal government would be the equivalent of the labs - because they are the enablers.

ilikelobstertails too

For crying out loud, let's be practical about this: The more people we have, legal or illegal, the better for the economy.

They spend money, they open businesses, they pay taxes that can be used to pay for the SS of people who retire, etc, etc.

Besides, it's not as if the US has some kind of natural order and "illegals" are screwing it up. It's the nature of the country to be open to immigrants at all times. In fact, if it wasn't for the first "illegal" immigrants there would have never been a USA.

It's time to say "thank you" to all immigrants, and move on.

Dear American for Israel

What a charming and intelligent response. And what command of language you have. Did you play football in high school? Perhaps you should have worn a helmet.

I care very much about my country or else I would not waste my time trying to educate the likes of you.

So, let's take a step back and a deep breath and return to the point. The judge did not toss the law out, she only stayed it's implementation while the courts work out the legal issues regarding the laws constitutionality.

Personally, I believe it is unconstitution because the way it is written it violates the equal protection provisions on which all our laws are based. Black, white, red, brown, gay, straight, male or female we are all supposed to enjoy equality when laws are being enforced. You cannot single out a specific group or groups for special enforcement.

The courts will work this out and when their decision is final we will all obey and abide by the law of the land.

So, tone down the rhetoric (and reach out and get yourself a vocabulary). None of us are without sin here. The history of this country, as with every country, is checkered with discrimination and crimes against humanity. We overcome our past by exercising tolerance and acceptance with logic and reason. Not school yard obscenities.

JC, not if you think of it in terms of this, there are 12 million meth users and 1 million dealers. You wouldn't have 12 million dealers with 1 million users.

what_the_81 - I didn't say I drive a car. What if I just want to go for a walk down the street? If I forget my ID, I could go to jail?

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City, how does this law have anything to do with race? last I read this bill addresses "illegal immigrants" not "mexicans". Looks like someone here has a reading problem.

DispName, no, I'm not saying that. Even in this country or in others you are required to furnish ID when asked for by a law enforcement or government official. This should especially hold true for people in another country they aren't permanent residents or citizens. When I visit south america I make sure to carry ID so when I'm asked I don't get thrown in jail if I don't have it. I expect people in this country who aren't legal residents or citizens to do the same. Why should they feel so entitled?

American for Zionism umm i mean Israel:

Hypocrite!! israel gets over $3 BILLION a year before you count the weapons! clearly you aren't 'selfish', just bigoted toward mexicans because it's apparently ok with you to give a rogue nation billions of dollars of your taxes in aid to continue a war against people they have been in the process of invading for over 100 years. just shut your stupid mouth already.

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

Thanks for the complement! No need to educate me though. I'm more than happy to stick to my intolerance and accepting the logic of that illegal is illegal. When you become tolerant, thats when your rights get run over. Point out please where the AZ law is unconstitutional and point out the Articles in the Constitution that will validate that. Yes, all citizens should enjoy equality with the laws. Yes you can single out a specific group when that group is illegal. So if there are some Arabs here carrying out terrorist attacks on the USA. The police has the descriptions of them, but if they are in AZ, the police can't pull them over and arrest them because that would be racist. No I'm not going to tone down the rhetoric as long as there are illegals taking away money from my children. They do not contribute to out society in a positive way.

DispName, put yourself in the other country's shoes. If you came across someone without an ID, wouldn't you be suspicious? Wouldn't you want to safeguard the citizens of your country? wouldn't you want to know who this person is? Name ONE country that doesn't require you to carry ID? If americans have to carry IDs when they visit any foreign country why shouldn't people who are not legal american citizens or legal residents not be required to? What gives them that priviledge?

@ ez rider

Israel is another topic on another Forum. If you want to shut my mouth, your more than welcome to try. Come on down to Dallas, Texas. Email me buddy, more than happy to meet ya somewhere, I'm getting tired of you idiots shooting off ya'lls mouth.

what_the_81 - How does anyone know if you are from another country? To enforce this law would mean EVERYONE would ALWAYS have to have ID on them. Also, our country has a lot more personal freedom than most others - I for one am not ready to give that up because we want to spend billions of dollars a year trying (probably unsuccessfully) to get millions of unwelcome people to leave. Just make it impossible for illegals to get a job and they go away on their own. I would also be careful when traveling abroad but that's because of the kind of country they are.

This is not about mexicans (hispanics) it is about an american law which we all have to abide by. Every legal immigrant abided by this immigration law, so what is the problem here. The english language (language of these United States of America) states what illegal means, states what an expired visa means, so it would benefit all illegals (most cannot read or write in english) to have a legal hispanic immigrant explain the law that they are breaking and tell them to go back before they will never get entry into OUR country. All these associations, unions and whatever they call themselves are not here to help illegal immigrants they are just opposers of what is legal in this country and they should be shut out or better yet taken to court for causing undue civil problems for our law enforcers (whom we voted and paid for to do their jobs) now we have groups who try to mix everything up and twist it around to what they want, no, the american laws are for everyone and if you are not abidding by that law you will be subject to the consequences that is the american way of handling the democratic system that really does work, because if it didn't why would so many countries embrace it. Go and live in Thailand and see what happens if you don't register every 90 days and that is with a legal visa the only way that you can stay.

DispName, I don't even know I should bother replying to you, obviously you didn't read the bill. The bill states that people who aren't here legal residents need to carry ID at all times. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. The bill doesn't state EVERYONE has to carry ID. Do yourself a favor before you keep on showing how clueless you are about the bill and read it before commenting on here.

what_the_81, what's hard to understand is that any person can be held suspect of being an illegal immigrant, including a citizen, and until that citizen can prove his/her innocence, he/she is presumed guilty and detained. That's illegal under Amendments 4 and 5.

American for Zionism: What are you, 14? it was your choice to post here with that stupid screen name talking about mis-spent taxes, einstein. yeee haw!

dispname and literfairy. the bill states that a police officer can ask for identification if there's sufficient reason to believe you are not here legally. for example, if you get pulled over, they ask for your drivers license. if you dont have that well then theres sufficient evidence to ask. etc. what the bill says is already practiced by law enforcement. they are now just taking it a step further to see if you are here legally... you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. i know its hard to see that until you actually read the bill.

Well since all these corrupt lawyers and politicians want to make it illegal to uphold the law why don't we just use this method for border patrol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUgdfD_mRJY

what_the_81 - Again, how do I know YOU are here legally? I gotta check YOUR ID. No ID? You are going to jail till we find out if you're here legally.

DispName, I don't know how many times I need to say this, read the bill. Page 4, top line. "The final determination of an alien's immigration status shall be determined by the law enforcement officer's authorization by the federal government to ascertain the alien's status OR the law enforcement officer's communication with federal customs and immigration enforcement."

It's all written there, they just can't lock you up without proof. If you don't have proof you are here legally (ID) they can find out through the above mentioned means to determine your alien status, if they determine you are here legally through customs, they let you go on your way, if not, straight to jail. I don't know how to make this ANY EASIER for you to understand.

literfairy, a law enforcement officer can determine your legal status because this bill would give them the power to communicate with customs and other federal agencies. This bill is primarily for cops to determine the legal status of someone who isn't a legal resident. If the suspect doesn't show up in the customs database, the law enforcement officer can take him/her straight to jail for being here illegally. Again, I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. If you read the bill you would get it...

don-1894920

Okay, how does the patriot act play in your "constitution" that they walk all over? How does the bill of right stand today? When these two documents have been fixed, I will say they follow and interpret it still. Until then, government can care less what these document say is purely obvious.

FED law says it's illegal to be here illegally, end of story. What constitution do you need for that? How to determine citizenship with hands tied because you can't ask for proof of citizenship when detained for any criminal or suspicious act is a different story. Saying anything about racism is pure speculation.

You can walk across the border from Mexico into the USA and they will arrest you for coming here illegally, but they can't ask for proof of citizenship so they will not be deported! Instead they waste our tax payer criminal funds and go to jail.

U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton suspended the law's requirement that cops check a person's immigration status during traffic stops, detentions and arrests.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/07/28/2010-07-28_arizona_immigration_law_sb_1070_has_most_controversial_parts_blocked_by_federal_.html

This is just wrong and Democrats will pay for this in November.

what_the_81

If the suspect doesn't show up in the customs database, the law enforcement officer can take him/her straight to jail for being here illegally.

They don't go to jail here in AZ, our sheriff takes them to ICE, that is "if" they are found to be illegal. That's a middleman wasting more tax dollars. If the law wouldn't have been ripped apart, then they could have just wasted one tax payer institutions funds and take them straight to jail.

FedupwithFed

All will pay for it, all incumbents, think that way instead please, because I'm tired of being kicked. We work better united, all incumbents must go!

Hell, I don't know why I care - I'm white and was born here and speak perfect english. I guess you can do whatever you want to 'them'. Sick of fighting about it but if it becomes a tool to allow law enforcement to step over resonable bounds then there will be a new fight.

what_the_81

I spoke with a cop here in AZ, all they need is a drivers license, a real one. That shows proof of citizenship to them as it was trained. Then go down the line visa etc, that is if no drivers lic or ID.

Sorry, I'm not for kicking out all incumbents, because there are some good ones. Get rid of as many liberals as possible. That is how I will be voting.

Phazfun, that's true about the driver's license. My whole argurment was if a person was not a citizen. The bill/law allows the police to verify with federal authorities to determine if the suspect is here legally or not. About sending them to jail, Arpaio had mentioned with this law that's where he would send him/her if the person was proven to being here illegally.

no matter what we do or what we want this government has apparently to do whatever they like. we are no longer a free democracy.

our life in the U.S. as we once new it is over.

welcome to SOCIALIST USA

http://socialistparty-usa.org/

Good politician, that a funny oxymoron, they voted to walk all over the constitution, partiot act and most of the bill of rights. I don't think we vote anyway, we just need a new government because this one isn't for the people anymore it's only for bailouts and special interests.

Conservatives can take a flying leap for lying to my face! How are those death panels coming along? Scaring everyone to death and yelling at town meetings with all their fear concerns implemented by republican obstructionists! Good way to vote, keep them in we need more #$&* like that. If a liberal voted against the people or lied, vote him/her out by all means!

The Arizona law is not against the U.S. Constitution. But your representatives and senators are against doing anything meaningful about the dreadful case against illegal immigration.

My best suggestion: States enforce your anti-illegal immigration laws in the face of the Federal Government. They can't get all of you. It will take a meaningful, hard-hitting act to make Congress get off of it's collective Candy Ass and then, do something to protect the U.S. Citizen and legal immigrants against illegals.

In the 1930's, Congress denied the existence of the Dust Bowl....that is until one day a 5000-ft. high storm reached the East Coast. As one senator pointed out the window and yelled, "Do you need proof, well there is your proof!" Congress took immediate action.

Stop illegal immigration now. Repatriate illegal aliens. Mandatory jail time for those who hire illegal immigrants.

By the prickling of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes...

And I see that John Galt as joined us: AtlasWillShrug I like your nic and your post. I have read the Constitution in the applicable sections (original text) about Citizenship; I have read every Amendment of our Bill of Rights; I have read our Immigration Laws in the text...

And I am very familiar with American History; I taught it collaterally to the American Literature course I taught to high school students. I have been an English teacher for nearly 20 years. My moonlight business took off, and now I edit others' work for publication and tutor, online, young people for back-up lessons in basic stuff.

OK, when I went to night class programs at a local law school, I took First Year Law: Contracts, Torts, Crimes, Civil Procedure…. and Constitutional Law. Of course it was the basics, what else ;), but basics give a person a start. I passed the Baby Bar and wanted to go on and get the LLD… but my husband had passed away and my kids needed me to be there for them. Litigation which I had wanted to specialize in is time-demanding; and so I became a teacher. :)

OK folks. If I haven't bored you to death.... please listen. I am scared stiff.

I haven't done that personal stuff here before, but I am really worried about the trends of what is happening to our nation, regarding the law-breaking flood of aliens into our country, and so I hope you folks will give me a little credit for what I have to say. Further... I have done a 180-degree in my opinions as I, too, in the beginning felt protective of the aliens as so many of you still are. Dang, I voted for Obama. I believed him. I was stupid not to check more diligently.

We are at war. O yes, we have been meticulously invaded by the foot soldiers of that war by their leaders’ clever Silent Invasion. Why did I change my opinion about them? I have read their agenda in many sources… Let me give you one that summarizes the situation his(or her) link is excellent. I taught in the school district mentioned myself; do not do so now, but know that what is revealed is fact.

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

One thing I would like to point out of some of you don't recognize MEChA (I even happened on their link accidentally on a different search). MEChA is the most active of the Activists, with a most enormous membership because the go after young idealists in the colleges and the Universities in our nation. And we parents know and understand that age group, don't we. sigh. It takes time to grow up. (And we never stop growing up if we let it happen. Obviously I am not into complacency personally.)

The second factor that turned me around is the aliens’ Attitude! Their comments as quoted even in the most liberal newspapers, like the Washington Post and the New York Times, are to me, appalling. They reek not only of Defiance and Self-Aggrandizement, but Threats, .

That said GENERAL AMNESTY WILL ULTIMATELY TURN AMERICA INTO A MESTIZO-CONTROLED NATION

And this is not War? I think if we understand there are many kinds of war, we must choose our weapons, and those kinds of weapons shall prevail. They start with Three:

1) Be smarter, more clever, better educated and determined. And American common sense is legendary. Those qualities are in our genes, and in our own life experiences.

2) The LAW supports US. By obeying our existing laws we enforce them AND WE SHALL SEE THAT THEY ARE ENFORCED ACCORDING TO LAW.

Our Constitution is being distorted by an individual who taught Constitutional Law. Do we trust that? Ha! He thinks he is smart enough to manipulate it. HE IS WRONG. I am a teacher and I know how it is done, if that is one’s goal. I hate it, personally. Manipulation instead of Integrity is, frankly, a mortal sin to me.

3) The goal is to WIN, to WIN WITH HONOR, and WE SHALL WIN that way because it truly is the only way anyone can win. We shall eject the people who do not honor our nation and who have proved it because we are smart enough to figure out how LEGALLY.

And, I am not talking just about our law-breaking aliens. I am talking also about their enablers.

My message to those Activists is… your power-mongering is one word: STUPID.

Oscar Wilde said, “The only Sin is Stupidity.” And Stupidity insures failure from the git go.

no matter what we do or what we want this government has apparently to do whatever they like. we are no longer a free democracy.

our life in the U.S. as we once new it is over.

welcome to SOCIALIST USA

http://socialistparty-usa.org/

http://www.mexica-movement.org/

DispName: How do we know you are here legally? If you have the lawful power to check to see that anyone is here legally buy all means try. But, You will need Your ID ON YOU TO PROVE YOU CAN HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT! How silly you sound...stop baiting about ID'S If you don't have one then spend the time in jail. Read The AZ. Law...then re-read it. Your argument is getting way off point. Illegal is Illegal.

don-1894920,

States Rights, Article 4 and the 10th Amendment. Since the Federal Government has abdicated their responsibility to enforce the Federal Law, these parts of the US Constitution allow the Individual States to create and enforce Laws themselves for the protection of State's Citizens.

Since Judge Susan Bolton has Ruled that Immigration is a Federal Responsibility. Then if this Adminstration does not adhere to this Law, this leaves the President open to Impeachment.

A violation of a Federal Law is called a Felony. As soon as any Illegal Alien came into the US Illegally they committed a Crime, violation of Federal Law.

There needs to be a Law that holds all Judges (City, State, Federal, Supreme Court) Liable for their Rulings. As this Judge needs to be held Fiscally Liable (losses caused to Arizona Legal US Citizens), including any deaths (murder of Rancher, Law Enforcement Officers) Criminally Liable or Civil Liability (financial losses by Families, US Citizens), etc..

DispName - ANY law that requires that I carry identification is unconstitutional and wrong. We need to target employers who hire illegals NOT check everybody's ID every time there is a suspicion.
Try driving without a driver's license and registration. As far as targeting employers, that was tried but it does not get the majority of Illegal Aliens, California Statistics, One Illegal Alien Works and Ten Collect US Citizen Taxpayer paid Public Assistance; as to why those Legal US Citizen California Residents wanted to stop this with Proposition 187, "Save Our State Iniatitive", defeated by Illegal Alien Lawyers (US Taxpayer Funded), so now Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State of California spends over $10 Billion USDs each year on Illegal Aliens US Taxpayer Funded Public Assistance of their $85 Billion USD yearly Budget, this $10 Billion then becomes unavailable for Fire Fighting, Brush Clearing (recent Fires), Law Enforcement, Education, Irrigation (recent Droughts), Infrastructure, etc.. To even say something uninformed that Illegal Aliens pay taxes is just that uninformed as Illegal Alien Support Organizations (US Taxpayer Funded) condone State and Federal Tax Evasion (a Felony), Cash for Work only; no Employer paperwork, less money due to deductions and more of a chance of deportation.

DWF- The current Federal government's stance on illegal immigration has nothing to do with securing the border.

OH REALLY:

President Obama meeting with Mexican President April 2009, Guadalajara, Mexico. President Obama, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".

President Obama meeting with Mexican President and Canadian Prime Minister, August 2009, Guadalajara, Mexico. President Obama, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".

And Legalization of over 23 Million Illegal Aliens in the US (AP):

And immigration remained a sore spot. While Obama has said he'd like to start crafting an overhaul that legalizes millions of Mexican immigrants, there's little chance of Congress acting this year, since even top administration priorities like health care and climate policy are moving slowly amid heated partisan debate.

Tell US President We the People are not going to put up with this baloney.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Scream in US Congress left and right ears.

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

We (US Citizens) are the Bosses of the US President and US Congress NOT THE ILLEGAL ALIENS (Invaders from another Nation).

Also tell them NO more US Citizen Taxpayer Money to La Raza or any other Organization receiving US Taxpayer Money to defeat State and Federal Laws against Illegal Aliens. Or condones or supports directly or indirectly the Activities of Illegal Aliens, this is called Conspiracy to Commit Fraud against the Citizens of the United States of America, and Fraud when the Crime is committed. Also stating the Reconquest of States of the United States of America is called a Declaration of War, or at the very least Sedition.

Don you are WRONG!!!!!!

david-475776

DWF- The current Federal government's stance on illegal immigration has nothing to do with securing the border.

OH REALLY:

Don't you dare take my comment out of context, you know damn well it's about politics. There's a freaking federal law which this administration refuses to enforce. So tell me sir; why doesn't the federal government enforce the law? So far in 2010 over 170K apprehensions of illegal immigrants have been made in the 260 miles of the Tucson Sector. That is not a secure the border, period!

Some of the support this bill is getting stems from racism. I'm from NYC and I went to high school about 6 blocks away from the world trade center. So, as you can imagine, every time any of my South Asian friends had to stuff one or two textbooks in their bags, people (and police) gave them funny looks. Sometme in 2002 or 2003, a group of Indian performers were traveling to NYC to by plane and were arrested as terrorists but released a week later. Thats my main problem with this bill. Innocent people are going to be targeted out of either racism or ignorance.

Phazfun Stay on topic…the POTUS is the one fighting this law…he is a democrat and the democrats ARE running scared…they even admit it. But go ahead and defend YOUR party and TRY to blame it on Republicans. Democrats are in control, THEY are ruining this country!

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/mid-term-elections-democrats-math-problem-complicates-agenda/story?id=11139124

Illegal is illegal. Fair enough. But the ultimate decision of who or what is illegal will always rest with a judge.

So, if for example, you're given a ticket for making an illegal U-turn the police officer cannot detain you for any amount of time. Rather, you're given a ticket recording your "violation" but, more importantly, you're given the chance to take your case to court and argue your case in front of a judge.

The problem with the AZ anti-immigrant law is that it gives local law enforcement to, first, decide who's "illegal" in the country and, two, to hold these "illegals" in jail until a judge can hear their case.

In other words, the fact that someone is arrested is to be used against them in a court of law. So, if immigration law calls for anyone arrested for any offense to be deported, which is the case, then those that were arrested just because a police officer suspected them to be "illegals" can be deported even if these "illegals" are going through a complex procedure to become legal residents or citizens of the US.

Get it? If there's a warrant for an arrest then, fine, arrest the suspect. But if there isn't a warrant and you've committed a violation the law has decided is not worthy of an arrest, then no police officer in the US should have the right to hold you in detention.

This is why the AZ law will not prevail in the Supreme Court regardless of how "conservative" it is.

Esam... lol you think? The majority of those judges are not yet in the pocket of the Activists for the ILLEGALS INVASION OF THE UNITED STATES. We American citizens will not tolerate that. They are illegally here under so many of our laws besides the obvious ones, your naiveté will leave you spinning.

The Federal Judge whatsherface can well be challenged as to her own Conflict of Interest (her own Department has a pending Complaint against AZ) and her duty was to recuse herself. She didn't and she and any other Department of Justice Federal Judge will be blocked, and should be.

There are other Judicial Entities that have legal jurisdiction, but the incredible dishonor of this administration thinks we Americans are sheep and won't challenge the manipulations from the White House.

We are more like the goats than the sheep of imagery. We will butt anyone who gets in our right of way!

Esam-

The problem with the AZ anti-immigrant law is that it gives local law enforcement to, first, decide who's "illegal" in the country and, two, to hold these "illegals" in jail until a judge can hear their case.

In other words, the fact that someone is arrested is to be used against them in a court of law. So, if immigration law calls for anyone arrested for any offense to be deported, which is the case, then those that were arrested just because a police officer suspected them to be "illegals" can be deported even if these "illegals" are going through a complex procedure to become legal residents or citizens of the US.

You have a poor understanding of law. All laws are enforced by a law enforcement officer's suspicion of the commission of a crime. This is called reasonable suspicion or probable cause. You see, in the US we have something commonly referred to as "innocent until proven guilty." This means that while a law enforcement officer suspects you of committing a crime and arrests you and places you in jail, you are simply charged with a crime. It is then the decision of a judge or jury that determines your guilt by a measure of "beyond a reasonable doubt." Certainly, you've heard and seen all this on Law and Order.

As far as arrest, a traffic stop is considered arrest. Any time you are detained by an officer, whether for a minute or 30 days, you are "under arrest."

I suggest you actually take the time to read the law in its short entirety (16 pages) before passing judgement. Here, I'll even provide you the website: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Pax-

I am a Lawful Permanent Resident and I have to show my Green Card to every employer. They are required by fedral law to make sure that I am not only in the US legally, but also authorized to work in the US - the two above are completely different issues as you can be authorized to live in the US, but forbidden to seek employment: for example spouses and children of people on H1B visa, or O1 visa can do a lot of things, but not work legally

I am an American citizen, and I too, must provide documentation and sign an affidavit stating that I am a citizen of the US as well as provide two forms of identification for verification of my status. Thus, my point is valid: if it is to become illegal for a law enforcement agency to request information providing residency status, how can an employer be within the law doing so?

Finally, since you are a legal permanent resident; welcome to the USA. I hope you enjoy your life here in the US and may you have the opportunity to make all your dreams a reality.

Second Sight-

Welcome. It took me a while to see through the haze as well.

"The symbol of all relationships among such men, the moral symbol of respect for human beings, is the trader. We, who live by values, not by loot, are traders, both in matter and in spirit. A trader is a man who earns what he gets and does not give or take the undeserved. A trader does not ask to be paid for his failures, nor does he ask to be loved for his flaws. A trader does not squander his body as fodder or his soul as alms. Just as he does not give his work except in trade for material values, so he does not give the values of his spirit- his love, his friendship, his esteem- except in payment and in trade for human virtues, in payment for his own selfish pleasure, which he receives from men he can respect. The mystic parasites who have, throughout the ages, reviled the traders and held them in contempt, while honoring the beggars and the looter have known the secret motive of their sneers: a trader is the entity they dread- a man of justice."

"Do you ask what moral obligation I owe to my fellow men? None- except the obligation I owe to myself, to material objects and to all existence: rationality. I deal with men as my nature and theirs demands: by means of reason. I seek or desire nothing from them except such relations as they care to enter of their own voluntary choice. It is only with their mind that I can deal and only for my own self interest, when they see that my interest coincides with theirs. When they don't, I enter no relationship; I let dissenters go their way and I do not swerve from mine. I win by means of nothing but logic and I surrender to nothing but logic. I do not surrender my reason or deal with men who surrender theirs. I have nothing to gain from fools or cowards; I have no benefits to seek from human vices: from stupidity, dishonesty or fear. The only value men can offer me is the work of their mind. When I disagree with a rational man, I let reality be our final arbiter; if I am right, he will learn; if I am wrong, I will; one of us will win, but both will profit." ~ John Galt (Ayn Rand)

FedupwithFed

This is on topic, when the feds use politics, getting votes not to do anything about immigration or suing a state for not doing there job, we get to talk about politics and why what they do doesn't work and why.

It's not my party. I think with my own mind and go where it is the best for the people. It's wrong to say one party is to blame for anything. Unfortunately with the republicans all voting NO on many bills and filibustering bills for the people without talking for hours on end, those are some you can categorize as a group.

Vote all the Dems out, just don't fill it with the like of the republicans we had with bush or the obstructionist who only know how to say no to the people as we have now because they don't like the color black.

Dems are spineless and play the feel sorry for me card but the republicans play the bully card with lies and will do what they can to get there way. I would like someone in office that shows they are for the people again! Never happen but one can wish

You are absolutely correct in what you have said.

Where Immigration Reform will not be enacted in any comprehensive form it is time to start chipping away at the problem of Illegal Immigration.

As the Federal Government only selectively enforces our Current Immigration laws it is time that we as the American People state loudly that it is time to act.

Everyone who wished to seek justice for those who break our laws then plaster their contempt in a foreign language need to write their Federal Representatives to change one law at a time.

The first law to be changed is to make being in this county by breaking our laws a Felony. A felon cannot ever be granted citizenship.

Watch the movie Food, Inc. and see how a major food company uses INS to prevent union development. Amazing how INS has "regulary scheduled" raids but isn't able to get total control of the illegal workers in this small town.

The story is bad on so many levels (I can't stand unions). But it shows how the government is in the grips of big corporations...like you needed me to tell you that!

PatrioticThinker

You got it correct. It is NOT about the Mexicans. IT IS ABOUT THE ILLEGALS coming across the border like it's gong into the department store. No matter what nationally, race or creed they are. Close the borders. LIKE ALL OTHER COUNTRIES. You can't even go between countries without going through some sort of GATE!

TXMOM32: Illegal is Illegal; but why don't they start arresting the ones that hire Illegal workers, why not pass state laws that make it law full to raid a company, or business if they suspect that these laws are being violated, go after the ones making it possible not just target the poor Mexican people, who work to feed their families, if they find violations close the company down, equal justice not discrimination against the weakest links in this illegal activity, the law should be made for the law breaker, who ever they are!!!

dale...They do target the Employers. That is does not work when the Illegal scum will purchase the identity of an unsuspecting legal resident or American Citizen.

If the poor Mexican people wish to make a difference they need to go home and fight for their own country and stop squatting in ours.

Congress needs to change the Immigration Code to expand being undocumented in this country a Felony.

Felons cannot become citizens. That might be enough of a motivator to assure that the "poor Mexican people" actually follow the law.

They are criminals that have broken are laws

They had to enact it because the Feds are not doing there job

You don't seem very fluent in English. Be careful, they may be profiling you right now!

Vote out every chickensh!t encumbent that won't enforce the law!!!!!!!!! Term limits on every politician and impeach the president who won't enforce the law!!!!!

What is the purpose of the Executive Branch?

First off everyone that lives here in the US is an immigrant and since the federal goverment dont wont to do the job that we elect them to do this does not give anyone nor everyone the right call people "illegal Immigrants" people noone has the right to DENY anyone the ability to come to the US and work raise a family or whatever it maybe they want to do as long as it is not anything criminal

REMEMBER THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND THIS LAND IS OUR LAND THIS LAND WAS MADE FOR YOU AND ME

This includes whomever that wants to make it their land

get real people dont get all Pissed off that someone comes to the US and works their ass off for wages the so called American people say is to cheep and makes a better life than you have

A United States Citizen/Immigrant just like the rest of us

MS - I think you mean the intended purpose. The intended purpose is to represent and the people and to carry out their wishes for governance. That's what a republic does, it's a representative form of government, which is what ours is. The definition of this governing system has long since lost its intended meaning. I'd venture to say somewhere at the turn of the 19th to 20th century. World War II really took the meaning for a ride and things have been shaky ever since. With the onset of technology beginning with radio then to television and now internet, politics is constantly taking hits from all directions and the yellow journalists have turned the rest into a circus, i.e., Glenn Beck, Wolf Blitzer, Katie Curic, and you can keep going with every journalist in this country. Not one is on task for the job they are doing. Someone or something is always out to taint the actual facts. Sigh* What a country. As for Obama, he and his ego are so out of control I wonder at each new day will bring.

First off everyone that lives here in the US is an immigrant...

So, no-one was around when the Europeans showed up? Better learn a little history.

geoand - WRONG! I am not an immigrant. However, my great-grands were. Understand what the he!! you are saying before you post. As for that denial thingy your posting about. Uh, yes they do have the right to deny anyone coming to this country to work. Try listening to someone who knows a little more than the illegals you are getting your information from. I can tell just from reading your post that that's where your information is coming from, OR you just really, really didn't get last night's news cast. Not to mention, your English skills are bit lacking. Just guessing.

I certainly hope that the legal citizens of this nation are paying attention and remembering names. Come November, the politicians and judges that are obstructing our laws and carving up our nation in the interest of ILLEGAL ALIENS and against the will of the American people WILL be held to account. I hope American memories are not too short.

We are witnessing America's death throes unless this nation is permitted to seal its sovereign borders. Politicians and judges are governing contrary to the American peoples' wishes.

We better wake up soon...

Everyday - My memory is doing just fine and quite legal. And believe me, I am paying attention. In fact I have a whole list I'll be taking into the voting booth with me to make sure those who need ousting get ousted and those who I feel will adjust the wrongs in place now, will do those adjustments at the request of the citizens of this country. I am fully awake and aware - and pissed. You forgot that. Don't like Obama - vote 'em out. He didn't get my vote the first time. Though I do not want to push my life into the fast lane, I do anticipate 2012 with great zeal. It would be a real good idea if he didn't run at all and leave the White House as a one term president, but I just don't see his inflated ego allowing that to happen.

You appear to be very mislead. People who are opposing this are not "programmed by faux news" (very cute)--they are upset because illegal immigrants are entering the country illegally, gaining benefits and employment illegally. There's nothing dehumanizing about stating something as it is, and someone who enters a country illegally is...well, an illegal immigrant!

I am most certainly a Christian, and I was taught to abide by the law. God wants us to love our neighbors. I have no problem loving my neighbors, even if they're from another country, but I also abide by the law. If my neighbors choose not to, disrespect the law and enter illegally, there is nothing un-Christian about my wanting the law upheld. Likening a law like this to insect extermination is just ridiculous. If they seek to improve their lives here in America, do it the legal way. I have ancestors who came over "on the boat" and went through Ellis Island to gain legal status.

This isn't about Mexicans. This isn't about extermination. And this certainly isn't about what you endearingly title "faux news"--this is about legal, American citizens requesting that the laws and rules are upheld for everyone.

I agree, illegals should not be here, that include John McCain, who was not born in United States. He never had to apply for a visa, and why? If Jan Brewer wants to get series about Arizona’s illegal alien problem, they should make no exception to the Europeans who bombard into America by way of air and water port to suck up trillions our tax dollars. The do not pay taxes, and they send their money home out of United States. The real load on our tax system is them European’s relatives of Jan Brewer. Why should we give them our tax dollar to come to United States, start up a business, and live off of the welfare system? The problem with Jan Brewer hate law, it does not includes people like John McCain or people of his color and likeness. Is hate a crime? Why Jan Brewer not being prosecuted? Why??

skip - Which is what I had to do to get through your drivel of a post - skip through it. Yes, the world has immigration problems. And please leave Jesus out of it. We have enough religious wars going on without adding Jesus to the mix of our immigration issues. Good grief. You could have saved your poor carpal tunnel some pain by not exposing yourself as a religious zealot. Religion and politics are separate in this country, or haven't you known this from grammar school? And if you are so wonderful and your state welcomes everyone with sunshine and roses, then how about you telling your governor to take all the ones from Arizona. I'm sure that will work out just fine since everyone in Oklahoma City is so happy to take in anyone who comes down the pike. Good luck with that one.

Just love reading all the hypothesis on here from the armchair lawyers who don't have a clue about the law. There is not one day in the course of most of our lives where we all don't benefit in some way from illegal labor.I would much rather have the bigots, racist and naysayers man up and be honest. Your problem is you don't want immigration period. Legal or illegal!

If I were a law enforcement officer and stopped a car of hispanics for a broken taillight, the fact that the whole car could speak english and either have a state issue driver's license or I.D. card would be sufficient. Don't make 'em carry a folder of paperwork around everywhere. Just learn our damn langauge and pay your share of taxes.

I agree L- alot of Skip Nicholson's comments are inflammatory. Written only to stir up emotion and memories of German Nazism. Please, we're not sending anyone off to concentration camps in the desert. We're not filling up our prisons with illegals simply because they are illegal. We're not exterminating a race. There is no racism involved in this debate. There is a race involved in the debate, and every time I read someone say that there is racism, I am reminded that the person making the comment is very likely the racist.

Your friends, the ones who are here legally, I think that is wonderful. I can stand along side the legal immigrants (recent and ancient) and hold up an American flag and sing the Star Spangled Banner with them. I've carried weapons into war with people of many different nationalities. Some that were trying to become legal citizens by serving in our armed forces. Doing it the right way is to be commended. I am all for legal immigration, it's what makes our country great. Your friends should be helping the illegals become legal, teaching them how to not live in fear by abiding by the laws of this country. And if the illegals do not want to become citizens and change their fealty, then your friends should point them out to INS and ICE.

Yes the rest of the world has its immigrant issues. But if you look at the laws of every one of those countries you would see tough legislation on the issue and strict enforcement. The people of this country are the enablers of illegal immigration. We have to stop saying "awwww....they just want a better life for themselves." "Awwww....those poor people they have children." If you want a better life earn it.. if you have children then abide by the laws of this land and you will not have to live in fear.

We have to get tough on this issue or it's going to tear us apart.

When OK City is 80% hispanic, all the signs downtown are in spanish, your kids have to learn to read and write spanish, you are discrimiated against seaking employment if you don't read and write spanish, your property values go down because of the way poorer uneducated illegal mexican immigrants tend to treat the housing they occuply, you get in multiple auto accidents caused by illegals that are not qualified to drive the roads and carry no insurance, your insurance rates increase because of this, and the airwaves a full of mexican radio stations, and mexican flags fly over every place that used to have state and US flags, THEN tell me how you like it...

trhese illegals are worse than just criminals. they are foreign invaders who are trying to take over our country a little at a time. not even trying to assimilate into our society. and simply thumbing their noses at our laws. they want to make it just like the lawless land they came from. how many americans could totally ignore our laws and get away with it. i guess most arent potential democratic voters

Sorry skip Nicholson OKC, I don't feel sorry for terrified kids whose parents were hauled off by ICE. I feel anger toward the parents who put them in that position. If they are here illegally they need to go. I don't care if they are 8, 38 or 80 years old - get them outta here.

Skip- I live in San Antonio Tx. These "hard working poor people " you speak of, must only live in your neck of the woods, I grew up on the south side of the city, "the poor side" went to public school there, in 47yrs I've been stabbed 3 times and shot once, my brother was shot twice and died at the age of 21, our only crime was being on "their side of town" which is where we grew up. My next door neighbor has 8 kids and is expecting again, she collects welfare ,food stamps, section 8, and every other entitlement known to man, she freely admits to being illegal, and say's there isn't a damn thing anybody can do, because her babies were born here, they take advantage of all the free lunches at school even during the summer, she say's "we will take back the southwest , from you gringo's , so you better get used to it" all I have seen from these people is utter contempt for anyone who is not latino, this is an invasion , you had better open your eye's before it's to late, and by the way, the only ones going to church down here are the older ones.

Skip, I agree with your statement and believe it to be true. However, do not let these fascist racist get on here telling anything different. Your point is clear and true. YOU GOOO SKIPPP!!!

Skip, you have no problem with these illegals "working hard and trying to make a living for their families" who turn around and send money back to mexico? Or you dont have a problem with them not paying taxes and then using all the handout services they can get from the government that we pay for? You dont have a problem with them not paying taxes so that when your kid's are of age there is no social security left for them that they have been paying into their whole lives? You dont care that they walk into an emergency room or a school and demand services that they have no intention of ever paying for but we have to foot the bill? Since none of this bothers you, why dont you start to pay for all these leeches so the rest of us dont have to? You seem to care more about what they 'deserve' rather than caring about what the people who have been paying taxes and giving back to the community deserve.

Yes, MYOB, there WERE people here when the Europeans came, among them were my ancestors. So, if I follow the lead of liberals, I should be yelling "give my country back". But, you know what? I don't think my 8 great grandma, Pleasant Sally (her Christian name) would want me to do that. It would go against the face that her English husband fought in the Revolutionary War for the rights we have today.

If they want to play that game, though, it would have to be worldwide because virtually every culture/country has replaced another. What a mess that would be. What if all the Irish had to go back to Ireland? And, wow, the Soviet Union would REALLY have to reorganize!

My point is that it's a ridiculous argument when I hear folks saying that CA, etc, belonged to Mexico first. So what? We fought a war; the US won. Game over! We are the United States of America; we have laws that are there to protect us. Those from outside this country shoud not be dictating our policies and illegal aliens should receive the full application of the law and be deported.

PatrioticThinker... you need to think about a patriotic English class so you don't sound so stupid with your many spelling mistakes. You're doing your cause harm by writing.

Shaun,

You best read and educate yourself on federal law. John McCain is an American Citizen. He may have been born outside the continental United States, but he was born on an American Military installation. That land, even though it is in a foreign country is United States Soverign Territory. That makes it US land. Just as if an American soldiers spouse gave birth in Korea, Germany, Japan or any other foreign military base. That child will be an American. Same as if they gave birth on an American Navel vessel at sea. It's US territory. You don't denounce citizenship or loose your citizenship by serving overseas for long periods. This also goes for foreign nationals living in the US. If an Chinese official gives birth at the Chinese Embassey, even though it is located in the US,, that child is a Chinese citizen.

Geoand, song lyrics do not constitute law. And Skip, nobody's talking about legal citizens. Nobody is targeting hispanics. The American people just want everybody in this country to have to follow the same laws as everybody else. Nobody is being racist about it. And just because Spanish speaking people pronounce it "hay-soos" doesn't mean everybody does. Heck, Christ's name might be Amanda for the second coming.

Ah, Sue, you make my point so elequently. Leave religion out of this? Sue, how can YOU be a christian and leave the teachings of Jesus out of your life and your interactions with others. That was his biggest point. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

No Sue, in truth I am a "secular humanist" which is the current politcially correct term for a non-believer. I believe christianity is just another religious myth. It is useful for those who need it to give some meaning to their existence and worth.

I bring it up because of the blatant hypocrisy exihibited by most of it's so-called followers.

I speak Spanish. I also speak French. I can understand a little German and Japanese. It's not big deal. By the year 2050 we will speak a hybrid language in this country some folks like to call "Spanglish". Get used to it. You already have more spanish words in your vocabulary that you realize and it is likely your grandchildren or great grandchildren will speak a language you will have difficulty understanding.

Yes, those people who come here illegally are breaking the laws. But they are not criminals in the sense of rapists or murderers or theives. They are doing what they have to do to make a better life for themselves.

Yes, there are bad people among them. There are bad Americans of every stripe.

In fact, America was founded by so-called "undesirables". Those pilgrims we revere so greatly, many of them were "transported" as punishment to the new world. "Transportation" to the Virginia colonies was a common form of punishment in 16th and 17th century England. Just like Australia, we were largely a penal colony.

I apologize to those of you with limited attention spans and vocabularies for the length of my posts but I'm going to follow you down the path of name calling and racial slurs. I'm trying to give you a perspective on your position that you obviously do not have because of the mob mentality being demonstrated on this week.

You are all hypocrites. You are the descendant of immigrants, both legal and otherwise, some of your ancestors kept slaves, some of your ancestors engaged in the destruction of the native peoples of this continent and all of us have the blood of those innocents on our hands. It's time we realized that. If you claim to be a christian and I'm sure most of you do it's time to get that bible out from under that stack of GUNS AND AMMO magazines and read what Jesus allegedly taught. Or, give up the pretense and stop calling yourself "born again" and a christian, because you aren't.

A christian would help, no condemn. At least that's what the christians I know say.

Jesus may not have been the son of god, he may have simply been a good man. He was certainly a liberal and if not the first liberal he was the most important liberal in history.

Read a book by someone other than Rush or Glen, watch something other than faux news and wake up and smell the coffee. Treat each other with compassion and tolerance and stop with the rabid, mad dog hate speech.

Remember, what goes around does, eventually, come around.

shaun-2041748
I agree, illegals should not be here, that include John McCain, who was not born in United States. He never had to apply for a visa, and why?

shaun, John McCain was born to 2 American citizens, his parents, who were out of the country when he was born. He is an American citizen by birthright - his blood makes him 1 automatically.
What is does NOT make him is a natural born citizen, hence he did NOT have the right to run for President of the USA. However, the constitution is very clear. Only Congress may question and evaluate the eligibility of anyone who runs for either President or Vice President. McCain, himself, brought this before Congress before he ran for President the 1st time and they declared him eligible. Obviously they threw out the constitution and all the constitutional amendments and all the supreme court rulings upon the subject of what does constitute "natural born" citizenship, but he was a long time senator and I assume he had many friends seated in Congress. Since they have sole authority in determining eligibility and their decision is final, McCain becam eligible to run.
US Citizenship by being a natural born citizen is based upon being born on US soil and the laws establishing that basis began in Europe and were adopted by our founding fathers who intentionally made the positions of President and Vice President mandate "natural born citizenship" to ensure that no foreign elements would attempt to take over or sabotage this country by immigrating here and then get elected to the highest level of authority this land has. US naturalization was also written in the constitution to allow immigrants to join us in this great nation. Unfortunately, our forefathers never considered when American citizens are out of the "juristiction of the USA", so nothing in the constitution covered that, however "citizenship by bloodlines" was added to ensure diplomats, servicemen, etc who were American citizens who had their families with them would not jeopardize their childrens' future. When an American citizen has a child outside of USA jurisdiction, they must fill out paperwork to ensure their child retains american citizenship. The only time this may present a problem with the child's citizenship is if the child is illegitimate and the only parent who is American is the father. There is much, much more that MUST be done, and prior to the child attaining the age of 18. That was enacted to ensure illegitimate children of soldiers during war time didnt just claim american citizenship if daddy dearest didnt want them.
Now shaun, I answered your question to clarify that John McCain is a legal, American citizen since birth because you interjected it into this illegal immigration issue erroneously.

skip Nicholson, please get your facts straight.

1st, the pilgrims were NOT criminals in a penal colony. They were promised freedom of religion if they settled the new land. At the time, England was persecuting anyone who would NOT convert to the Church of England. It was a way they could retain their religion without persecution. That is why FREEDOM OF/FROM RELIGION was a very important part of our USA Constitution. The forefathers want to ensure there would never be any grounds for religious persecution. They guaranteed that our great country could not be anything but secular, hence the separation of state from any religious affiliation and that all indiiduals could be assured of their rights to believe in God as they so chose as their inalienable right.

2nd, Australia was a penal colony that did have some criminals in it, but most were underpriveledge, poor and uneducated people that England wanted to get rid of. Laws were concocted up to create more "criminals" who would be given the choice of going to Austrailia for the crown's benefit or living in prison over issues we would find as barely worth misdimeanor violations. The key was ensuring that they got rid of the poor, uneducated lackeys who didnt economically contribute to society (and the royal coffer) the way, say, a slave trader or jeweler did.

It does NOT matter if you believe in God, through some form of christianity or other religion, or not or even if you just believe Jesus was the greatest liberal thinker of all time. Jesus did say "give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's". So this great liberal thinker believed in OBEY secular law. As far as being an illegal alien, that is against the law. Those children who came home to find their parents gone, well, hell, if their parents were US citizens and were drug dealers, do you think the police should not "take them away" and incarserate them because they have kids? Does that mean a rapist shouldnt go to jail because he has a family and his kids need him to work to support them? Does that mean a car thief shouldnt be arrested because his mom and dad will be upset and could take a heart attack over him being arrested?

Society has laws and immigration laws are a part of those laws. Every country has them and for good reason. If a segment of our population believes they are so above the law that they can spit on our laws and not be worried about breaking our laws, then we have serious issues. So your heart breaking story of families afraid of be "caught" and sent to "camps" is you saying some of our laws are ok to be broken, then all laws are ok to be broken. Lets close down all those prisons, throw away all those laws enacted (woe to the soon to be destitute families of lawyers) and set all those accused of any crimes home BECAUSE THEY HAVE FAMILIES TOO that miss them and fear for them, even if they arent illegal aliens.

This is too FUNNY. I am white and born in Texas. I was stopped in Las Vegas and because I could not presentproper I.D. I was placed in the county jail and held for 72 hours while my I.D. was checked. Now an illegal whom has commented a crime by not entering this country in the correct manner has more RIGHTS than I do as an American Citizen Born in this country. I have not seen to many places where the law states you can be with out some form of I.D. but I guess if you are in this country Illegally you don't need to worry about that.

Ship Em Out And Give US our Country Back ......Screw Obama AND his need for VOTES !!!

The Toll is much greater than the advocates would have you know..... They give NOTHING BACK and take resources that AMERICANS could be using during this time of need in the Great Country of Ours.....

For S. Olsen and others who worry more about grammar and spelling than content, I apologize. Running two businesses leaves little time for sleep or proofing documents at 5:00 in the morning. Had I known that there were so many pencil pushing analytics proofing this, I would have taken additional time. My lawyer used to laugh about my contract mistakes as well, until he figured out that I can make more on deal then he does in a year. But I digress, and for those who assume I must be racist, I submit that I have had the privilege to have been married to a Latina for the last 32 years. Who came here legally, stayed legally, married legally, and became a citizen legally. We work hard for what we have achieved and tend to get upset when others want to break the laws that keep this country so great.

InstallerGuy,

John McCain has not shown me any document of his birth certificate. There is no actual proof of who his dad or mom is. I believe he was adopted, because this type of thing runs in his family. I guess you want me to believe all his children’s are born Americans too. I guess you want me to believe you were there when John McCain was born, because it sure sounds like it. I guess you want me to believe you have DNA evidence. Why should I believe you? Why??

ANY law that requires that I carry identification is unconstitutional and wrong. We need to target employers who hire illegals NOT check everybody's ID every time there is a suspicion. That said, I do believe that if a person is convicted of ANY crime, then their immigration status can and must be checked.

Also, for those who think it's this administration that isn't enforcing the law, please remember the previous 8 years when illegal immigration was just as rampant. The cost to find and deport illegals is too high, we need to focus on the employers.

Skip, excellent comment, wish I had the time to talk to you more in depth about theology. As a person who appreciates language and words; not to mention able to think for himself; I'm somewhat set back as to why you were not able to decipher the uncanny accuracy of the bible. One day you should reread it; you'll be surprised to find that there are many allegorically accurate scientific correlations. I've long learned to throw away many of the traditional interpretations, and by doing so, have found it to be remarkably profound.

The biggest mistake most Christians make is coming to firm conclusions about things they can't possibly know. Don't make the same mistake. If you do decide to reread it, use everything that you have available to you, such as science, philosophy, and entomology. The results will blow your mind, and leave you wondering how did these people figure this stuff out.

I do not suggest that you join a church, dip your self in holy water, make concessions, or become a monk. Skip, like all languages you must try to translate it into modern terms. The people who wrote it were ancient, and express what they were considering in much different terms. They were not idiots like most of these religious people today. They were simply making observations, and putting them in the best words that they had available to them.

You have to find it in your heart to forgive sue. She is a product of an unsuitable educational system. Keep an open mind skip, and make no firm conclusions of things you cannot possibly know. It ain't over until it's over, and then perhaps then we might all be able to make our conclusions.

Truth is a very deep subject; nobody knows what it is; and the moment you say you do is the same moment you fall into the same trap that those you say are tiring to give some meaning to their existence and worth. Indeed everything in this life is meaningless; you are born, you struggle, and you die. Everything under the sun is vanity; make no mistake about it. Enough of my theological rantings. Good luck.

Do not bet that this law will be upheld in the supreme court. Unlike robbery or other crimes that are both state and federal crimes, which involve rights of a state's citizen, immigration related issues are strictly federal issues. You cannot enforce something that you do not have the right to grant! States have no right to grant US citizenship. Fed Govt grants citizenship. So only Fed govt has the right to enforce the laws related to that right (unless Fed govt grants that right to States or requests States to participate in the enforcement). Also, the citizenship of US gives someone the right to go to a State of the union without having to carry his citizenship papers. It is like telling you that you have to have the title papers of your home with you all the time that you are in your home, because the govt now has given the right to cops to go to any home where they "suspect" illegal activity (which is code word for "go to anyone's home as long as you can say that u were suspicious") and check title because of incidents where people breaking into epty homes! Imagine what kind of situation that can create.

Contrary to the lies that the supporters of this law are consistantly saying, it does not have any provision to prevent racial profiling. It says if a cop stops someone or arrests someone, he can ask for citizenship papers of that individual. How will you determine who to ask? The law does not say that a cop has to ask everyone, but only the ones that he may suspect is here illegally. It gives card blanche right to cops to determine who they can suspect (in short - nonwhite and non-black individual with and accent). I am a US citizen of brown skin. Constitution grants me the right to travel in the US without having to carry my passport or birth certificate. And I do not want a cop have the reason to pull me over under the premise or pretense of an minor act (for example: speeding or jay walking - which is always a cop's best weapon to stop someone) and then detained because I do not have my passport or birth certificate with me!! And while this could happen to me, while non-brown guy could just be allowed to go because the cop was not "suspicious"??? If you really want to fix the law like this, make it mandatory for cops to ask passport or birth certificate of all parties stopped! And also mandate jail time for employers who do not mnake a good faith effort to check the immigration status of an employee prior to hiring.

shaun - John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, at the time the PCZ was a U.S. Territory. He is as much a U.S. citizen as anyone born in the 50 states.

The balance of your post(s) are too rambling, bizarre and ludicrous to deserve response.

Go skip Nicholson!!

However, I have not read Jesus having Conservatives values. I wonder what Jesus would be like if he was a Conservative. He would be selfish, greedy, and the price of sin would not have been paid for. Ever thing skip said about Liberalism, is true. GO Skip!!

Porkbevr, Panama was a territory of Columbia and attempted several times to seceded and failed. The United States stepped in and supported Panama in its fight for independence from Columbia, resulting in the Hay/Bunau-Varilla Treaty in Nov 1903 which gave it it's freedom from Columbia and also rewarded the USA for its assistance by granting

rights to the United States "as if it were sovereign" in a zone roughly 10 miles wide and 50 miles long. In that zone, the U.S. would build a canal, then administer, fortify, and defend it "in perpetuity." In 1914, the United States completed the existing 83-kilometer (52-mile) canal. The early 1960s saw the beginning of sustained pressure in Panama for the renegotiation of this treaty.

The "as if it were sovereign" part was merely over the zone roughly 10 miles wide and 50 miles long where the Panama Canal was built, not over the land the US Naval Base was situated. The "as if it were sovereign" is not the same as "under the jurisdiction of" either.

Panama have NEVER been a territory of the USA. It was a territory of Columbia until 1903, and John McCain was born on 8/29/36.

John Sidney McCain III (born August 29, 1936) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

In November 1903, Panama proclaimed its independence and concluded the Hay/Bunau-Varilla Treaty with the United States. The treaty granted rights to the United States "as if it were sovereign" in a zone roughly 10 miles wide and 50 miles long. In that zone, the U.S. would build a canal, then administer, fortify, and defend it "in perpetuity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama

Vic Gill 2.4

"Do not bet that this law will be upheld in the supreme court. Unlike robbery or other crimes that are both state and federal crimes, which involve rights of a state's citizen, immigration related issues are strictly federal issues. You cannot enforce something that you do not have the right to grant! States have no right to grant US citizenship. Fed Govt grants citizenship."

Where in this bill are the states asking to grant citizenship? They would simply put an inquiry into the feds to determine citizenship. There is no overlap of government powers. If you had actually read the injunction brief you would see that the judge never argued that there was an overlap in laws, but merely the states my force an undue burden on federal immigration bureaus. This was an ironic judgment as the states are currently suffering the undue burden due to federal inaction. Basically the argument was "you can't force the federal government to do something they don't wish to do". This is clearly outside of current Supremacy Clause jurisprudence.

Sue -

Don't take the words of Penn too seriously, it wouldn't surprise me if it was in fact Sean Penn and everyone knows he is a complete moron. I'm not a practicing Christian but I respect the religion. What I find interesting, almost entertaining, is when pseudo-intellectuals come into a forum and implicitly bash Christianity due to their own hatred and biases. For instance, this nonsense about Jesus being a liberal is just a ploy to try to create a facade of hypocrisy where there is none; and to piss people off. Liberals like Penn and Skip like to paint the illusion that conservatism is somehow incompassionate while liberalism is the ultimate purveyor of compassion; which is utter nonsense. Jesus taught... well many things but for the sake of time and for the sake of responding to their specific misguided assertions... he did teach to help your fellow man and he did teach to love and not hate and so on, but don't let these idiots control the debate, conservatism is not against these qualities and characteristics. Conservatism embraces these qualities, but on an individual level. We don't subscribe to the idea that the government is more capable of allocating our compassion than we are. So when we protest frivilous spending or spending on something that the Christian faith may find morally repugnant, they call us hypocrits. When we're for charity rather than welfare, we're hypocrits. When we're for sovereignty versus globalization, we're racist hypocrits. The thing about Christianity is that it promotes the idea that God gave each individual the choice of whether to serve him or not and whether to follow his teachings or not. In America, we embrace the idea of individual choice and the individual responsibility that comes with it; well at least conservatives do. We appreciate that our founders recognized the importance of creating a country that is operated in a fashion that puts each individual's destiny in their own hands. There will always be those who disagree with how this country was founded and how it has conducted itself from its founding. Have there been mistakes, yes many cruel and inhumane mistakes, but a country controlled by its people inherits the conscience of its people, that conscience catches up and many wrongs have been terminated since the founding. Liberals feed off the remnants of hate and bitterness that remain behind after these wrongs have been ended. They use emotion as tool to promote hate and divisiveness all the while throwing out accusations of hate and intolerance to those who just want to sustain the sovereignty the country that allows them to choose for themselves. Don't be fooled by these idiots.

Shaun you must be 12

The Arizona law is not against the U.S. Constitution. But your representatives and senators are against doing anything meaningful about the dreadful case against illegal immigration.

My best suggestion: States enforce your anti-illegal immigration laws in the face of the Federal Government. They can't get all of you. It will take a meaningful, hard-hitting act to make Congress get off of it's collective Candy Ass and then, do something to protect the U.S. Citizen and legal immigrants against illegals.

In the 1930's, Congress denied the existence of the Dust Bowl....that is until one day a 5000-ft. high storm reached the East Coast. As one senator pointed out the window and yelled, "Do you need proof, well there is your proof!" Congress took immediate action.

Stop illegal immigration now. Repatriate illegal aliens. Mandatory jail time for those who hire illegal immigrants.

no matter what we do or what we want this government has apparently to do whatever they like. we are no longer a free democracy.

our life in the U.S. as we once new it is over.

welcome to SOCIALIST USA

http://socialistparty-usa.org/

http://www.mexica-movement.org/

The Constitution clearly states that immagration matters fall under the perview of federal law. It is as clear as can be.

JQ- above, I love how in your lengthy post about christianity and Jesus you devote one sentence to what Jesus was all about. They named the religion after him. He is what it is all about. He had long hair, a beard, wore sandals, typical hippie. He never married and shunnded earthly possesions and lust. He preached that you should love your neighbor as yourself. All he preached was love. Which is the opposite of what the conservative/tea party movement is all about right now.

skip nicholson,

i have a hard time with non-Christians making statements about Christianity. you know very little about Christianity, as is obvious by your posts.

i wasnt going to respond, and am certain that nothing i write will make it through that cranial mass sheltering whatever it is you think with, but you are wrong. period.

Jesus (capitialized out of respect) was most certainly NOT liberal. you need to study up on what you profess to know, as you know little to nothing about Christ and His teachings.

here in America, we are the single most generous nation ever to exist on earth. more donation, and charity monies come from the U.S. than any other nation in existence. ever. any disaster, anywhere in the world, it is America that steps up. first almost always, and most charitable. always. dont call me, or any other American a hypocrite.

i want my rights as a U.S. citizen. so does every other American citizen. immigrants want rights as U.S. citizens, and after following the regulations set in place, can become citizens and have those rights. persons who come here ILLEGALLY want all those rights, and much much more. if i am charitable, it is MY decision, not yours, nor the governments to make. i am not here to support ILLEGALS, though i am more than willing to help those in need.

i am appalled that you consider this issue as you do. there is no other country in this world that is as open to immigrants as America, and though not every American is as morally considerate as another, we are most certainly not a country of racists (which you pin entirely on the 'whites' of this country.) your ignorance at the situation this country is in would be laughable, if it weren't so serious an issue.

you need a new perspective on things, preferably one that displays some knowledge of the truth of the matter. good luck with that, as i am certain that you are as bullheaded, as you are boneheaded.

good day.

Right on Patriotic Thinker. It's so simple I don't know why these liberal and progressive idiots can't rap their feeble minds around. I’ve posted before on this subject and my main point was that I served 22 years in our military retiring in Feb 2008 and I was not putting my life on the line for these illegal, ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL CRIMINALS. I served AMERICANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What because we are land locked with the Mexico they and the other Latin countries have some unalienable rights to be here illegally???? I DON’T THINK SO. Oh but the poor dears are only trying to provide a better living for their families. Well what about the 2,000,000 homeless Haitians or the millions on the African Continent starving and dealing with genocide on a daily basis. Oh, I guess they don’t have the same rights Latinos do. Somebody needs to get off of their ass and send these CRIMINALS (YES LIBBYs THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE) PACKING. I tell you what Mr. or Misses Liberal. I’ll come and walk behind you into your home. When you ask me what and the hell I’m doing, I’ll say your house is nicer than mine so I’m going to stay here. I’m sure your living room couch will fit me nicely. IDIOTS

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City, and for all his other clueless followers, this arizona bill has nothing to do with race. If you would read SB1070 you will notice that only "illegal aliens" are mentioned, I don't see "mexican" in the bill at all. I'm hispanic, live in AZ and I approve of this bill in it's entireity so don't even go there that it's racist. How many posts on here have you seen that are against legal immigration? I count 0. So your whole rant on how americans are racists toward hispanics and their culture is compeletely baseless. It's illegal immigration most americans are against, get that through your head!

Tell me where those concentration camps are in Arizona. I don't even know if you live here to say that. The last I heard, Maricopa Co. has tents on the grounds for inmates to sleep. There was a documentary and I saw inmates of all different colors sleeping in them.

Advice to you: Educate yourself before you rant on here, you don't know how much you're making a fool out of yourself.

Tell US President We the People are not going to put up with this baloney.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Scream in US Congress left and right ears.

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

We (US Citizens) are the Bosses of the US President and US Congress NOT THE ILLEGAL ALIENS (Invaders from another Nation).

Also tell them NO more US Citizen Taxpayer Money to La Raza or any other Organization receiving US Taxpayer Money to defeat State and Federal Laws against Illegal Aliens. Or condones or supports directly or indirectly the Activities of Illegal Aliens, this is called Conspiracy to Commit Fraud against the Citizens of the United States of America, and Fraud when the Crime is committed. Also stating the Reconquest of States of the United States of America is called a Declaration of War, or at the very least Sedition.

The hispanic race was here first. It is too bad that you Texan are such a sore loser.... LOL

The only thing "unclear" about federal immigration law is why the Communist in Chief refuses to do his duty and enforce the law. Illegal is illegal. It is a crime to trespass on the sovereignty of the United States. Pursue and punish the criminals. It isn't hard to understand.

By the prickling of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes...

I have read the Constitution in the applicable sections (original text) about Citizenship; I have read every Amendment of our Bill of Rights; I have read our Immigration Laws in the text...

And I am very familiar with American History; I taught it collaterally to the American Literature course I taught to high school students. I have been an English teacher for nearly 20 years. My moonlight business took off, and now I edit others' work for publication and tutor, online, young people for back-up lessons in basic stuff.

OK, when I went to night class programs at a local law school, I took First Year Law: Contracts, Torts, Crimes, Civil Procedure…. and Constitutional Law. Of course it was the basics, what else ;), but basics give a person a start. I passed the Baby Bar and wanted to go on and get the LLD… but my husband had passed away and my kids needed me to be there for them. Litigation which I had wanted to specialize in is time-demanding; and so I became a teacher. :)

OK folks. If I haven't bored you to death.... please listen. I am scared stiff.

I haven't done that personal stuff here before, but I am really worried about the trends of what is happening to our nation, regarding the law-breaking flood of aliens into our country, and so I hope you folks will give me a little credit for what I have to say. Further... I have done a 180-degree in my opinions as I, too, in the beginning felt protective of the aliens as so many of you still are.

Dang, I voted for Obama. I believed him. I was stupid not to check more diligently.

We are at war. O yes, we have been meticulously invaded by the foot soldiers of that war by their leaders’ clever Silent Invasion. Why did I change my opinion about them? I have read their agenda in many sources… Let me give you a link that summarizes the situation. I taught in the school district mentioned myself; do not do so now, but know that what is revealed is fact.

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

One thing I would like to point out if some of you don't recognize MEChA (I even happened on their link accidentally on a different search).

MEChA is the most active of the Activists, with a big membership because they go after young idealists in the colleges and the Universities in our nation. We parents know and understand that age group, don't we. sigh. It takes time to grow up. (And we never stop growing up if we allow it happen. Obviously I am not into complacency personally.)

The second factor that turned me around is the aliens’ Attitude! Their comments as quoted even in the most liberal newspapers, like the Washington Post and the New York Times, are to me, appalling. They reek not only of Defiance and Self-Aggrandizement, but Threats, .

That said:

GENERAL AMNESTY WILL ULTIMATELY TURN AMERICA INTO A MESTIZO-CONTROLED NATION

And this is not War? I think if we understand there are many kinds of war, we must choose our weapons. They form a list beginning with a vital First Three Weapons:

1) Be smarter, more clever, better educated and determined. And American common sense is legendary. Those qualities are in our genes, and in our own life experiences.

2) The LAW supports US. By obeying our existing laws we enforce them AND WE SHALL SEE THAT THEY ARE ENFORCED ACCORDING TO LAW.

Our Constitution is being distorted by an individual who taught Constitutional Law. Do we trust that? Ha! He thinks he is smart enough to manipulate it. HE IS WRONG. I am a teacher and I know how it is done, if that is one’s goal. I hate it, personally. Manipulation instead of Integrity is, frankly, a mortal sin to me.

3) The goal is to WIN, to WIN WITH HONOR, and WE SHALL WIN that way because it truly is the only way anyone can win. We shall eject the people who do not honor our nation and who have proved it because we are able enough to figure out how LEGALLY.

And, I am not talking just about our law-breaking aliens. I am talking also about their enablers.

My message to those Activists is… your power-mongering is one word: STUPID.

Oscar Wilde said, “The only Sin is Stupidity.” And Stupidity insures failure from the git go.

Dirt.... at #2.28.... has said it: "...virtually every culture/country has replaced another."

That is what is going on as we speak. Our country is changing and there is nothing we can do to stop it from changing. Our culture and perhaps our country is being replaced by another because that's the history and destiny of mankind. We are at war in Afghanistan to support a culture to which we wish to be allied, and to destroy a culture with which we have disagreements. The invasion of illegal aliens on our soil is of a similar vein, only it's a whole lot quieter, and it will take much more time to fully recognize the consequences.

Regardless, our culture will change and our country will change because that's just the way it is. It will be interesting to see if the United States of America is replaced by the Independent States of Allied America. The divisiveness and negativity in our citizenry is surely leading us somewhere.

JQ;

How democratic would you say a country is when it takes millions of dollars to run for office?

In one breath you talk about individualism, and the next breath you speak for everybody when you say “we don’t subscribe to the idea”; it’s OK to have your own ideas, but Don’t drag everybody else in with them. If you need an army to make your point then perhaps your point is weak. I also noticed that you like to fill a lot of space in you’re paragraphs with name calling; another sign of a weak argument, however, I really don’t think you’re too concerned about the foundation of what you’re saying.

Your words are;

“We appreciate that our founders recognized the importance of creating a country that is operated in a fashion that puts each individual's destiny in their own hands”.

Jefferson was a slave owner. When he wrote the phrase “all men were created equal”, he was talking about his peers, which were the well-to-do. If you did not own land, you couldn’t vote. If you were a woman, you could not vote. If you are European indentured servant, you could not vote. I suspect if you were alive at the time JQ, you would not have been able to vote. Many of the political freedoms we enjoy today came way too late. By the time the changes came much of the wealth, power, an influence of this country was in the secure hands of the individuals who wanted to control it. The case of too little too late.

There are many different kinds of freedom JQ.; Some are political; some are economic. Certainly you realize this when you can’t afford the things you need. Indeed a lot of surface problems have been corrected JQ., But there’s a fundamental flaw in our government when only the very rich people have the ear of our policymakers. When these problems go away JQ., I will no longer speak of them, but until they do, I’m going to irritate everybody around me with my rants.

An excerpt of the motto of the statue of liberty ….

“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she

With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost, to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

In other words don’t send me the rich and well-to-do; send me people that are desperate enough so I can profit from their despair. Don’t send me capitalist, who will compete for my profits. “I cry with silent lips” ; which is to say, it goes without saying, “keep your stored pomp” (your wealthy investors); they are no use to me. Send only the wretched and homeless; I am capitalism, and I lift up my lamp beside the golden door waiting for the opportunity to exploit them; profit is what I’m looking for, and not an equal to share it with.

Quite frankly JQ. I don’t care what your political persuasions are. If you want to sustain the SOVEREIGNTY of this country then what you’re looking for is a supreme ruler (look up the word sovereignty); in which case there is no need for you to fight; you already have it. Your king is corporate America, and by the looks of it, it seems that your king thinks he’s paying you too much. Thus, the influx of Mexicans coming across our southern borders; thus the influx of Indians (India), which by the way I have recently found out outnumbers the amount of Mexicans. I owe this newfound knowledge to individuals who write comments that have content that is worth reading.

Finally, I did not mean to insult sue. I sincerely apologize if I said anything to offend her. I too suffer from the inadequacy of a public education, and lack of money to further my education.

I've heard people claiming that I should accept lawbreakers because my relatives came into this country legally, which makes no sense. I've heard that I should forgive these lawbreakers because that's what Jesus would do, but that is up to God to forgive. I've heard that because a Senator that ran for president wasn't born on this soil, I should allow the illegal immigrants. I've heard that because there are white and black people on social programs, I should forgive illegal immigrants. I've heard that because "it will hurt the children" I should forgive illegal immigrants. I've heard that because people don't want to be burdened with carrying their driver's licenses that I should forgive illegal immigrants. I've heard that because I want all illegal immigrants out regardless of race, sex, religion I'm a racist. None of this makes any sense to me. If the arguments are simplified, it comes down to two sides. Illegal and legal. My country and not yours. My fellow citizens and Mexican citizens. Seems like those that want to allow the illegals can sponsor them to become citizens. But don't tell me that I have to!

How about we implant a tracking device on all illegal immigrants that are caught.

So robbing a bank is the same as crossing the border, your logic is astonishing, Just because something is illegal does not mean is wrong or makes someone a felon. It was illegal for a color person to drink from certain water fountains could not sit anywhere they wanted in the buss could not attend the same schools, restaurants ext.... Is not the illegals fault that life is better on this side of the fence is it Yankee? Do you not know your own country's history? How your ancestors escaped persecution from the English and you came over to the west because "God wanted you to take the land of others and in slave others". How hypocritical.

So robbing a bank is the same as crossing the border, your logic is astonishing, Just because something is illegal does not mean is wrong or makes someone a felon. It was illegal for a color person to drink from certain water fountains could not sit anywhere they wanted in the buss could not attend the same schools, restaurants ext.... Is not the illegals fault that life is better on this side of the fence is it Yankee? Do you not know your own country's history? How your ancestors escaped persecution from the English and you came over to the west because "God wanted you to take the land of others and in slave others". How hypocritical.

Javi-739516, you're so clueless. I don't even know how anybody that thinks on a regular basis or has an education beyond 2nd grade can respond to that.

Well, I don't have time to get into a long debate but I will happily address a few of your points. When I say, "we don't subscribe to the idea..." I'm speaking as a conservative about conservative philosophy. Conservative philosophy is defined; so me touting the virtues of individuality and then stating one of the elements that defines conservatism is not tantamount to hypocrisy or inconsistency. If I say that "we subscribe to the idea that the sky is blue," am I somehow stealing the individuality of someone who says differently? No, I'm not, I'm stating fact and that person is either color blind or crazy.

Second, you might want to look up sovereignty again; sometimes words have multiple meanings. Think adjective.

You want to talk hypocrisy, insinuating that someone is uneducated then whining about name calling (I just don't like Sean Penn) is hypocritical. Come on, anyone with half a brain understood your intent to insult Sue.

I too hate mean old corporations. Once, I saw one smack a homeless person and then run away laughing. A friend of mine works for a corporation that has retreats in Alaska and between meetings they go baby seal clubbing. When I was six I worked for a corporation in a textiling plant in Nebraska, they paid me in corn if i did well; if not they beat me with straws. I know a corporation that profits from the sales of the tears of children and the elderly. There's a corporation in Texas that has an annual human hunt where they round up people who wont be missed, put them on an island and then rent the island out to other corporations for a competition where the winner receives the pelt of an endangered Amur tiger. Corporations suck.

Caibarrien -

So your argument is that Jesus was a hippie? Ok... I really don't think Gillette, Nike or Abercrombie were in existence at the time but I could be wrong. *sigh*

Patriot Thinker...You are correct and I agree with you 100%!

Another thing I am so sick and tire is those ultra liberal organizations such the ACLU. Appearently those so called "constitutional lawyers" don't know the US Constitution. Where does the US Constitution said aliens are protected under the constitution. The law is very clear about those who entered the US border illegally as "criminals." They should be deported ASAP. By putting them in prison will only placing further burdens on our states and cities. Crime rate has increaed dramatically during the past years because many of those crimes were committed by the illegals. Even they are convicted and imprisoned, once they are release they most likely will go out and commit crimes again.

We can not continue to support those illegals in forms of prisons, welfare, free medical and food stamps. We have our own (US Citizens) who need the help. How about helping our own citizens who were laid off from the jobs and have no income for months. It is really rediculous to think that while the illegal/criminals are getting welfare, free medical and food stamps and our own people who have lost their homes and are homeless.

The ultra liberals are calling these laws discriminating against the Latinos. I said hog wash! Of course the Latinos are targeted since we have more than 35 million illegals in this country and almost all of them are from Mexico. If those 35 million illegals were from Mars, why would they think the laws are targeted for Martians?

Javi,

so, NOT following proper procedure to gain access to a (given) country, you find morally acceptable? hmmmm, interesting. no bias there, is there?????

to elucidate for you, immigration is a federal matter. that means it is a federal offense to break the law. that makes it a felony. not just in America, but in Mexico as well as any other country.

the rest of the garbage you posted has been addressed already. in the courts. and no, it is not the fault of the immigrant that life is better here. it is, however the fault of the ILLEGAL migrant to attempt circumvent the laws of a given country, just because they feel 'entitled'. they are no more entitled to come here illegally as a U.S. citizen is to go to Mexico illegally. we simply are more 'humanitarian' in the way we deal with those lawbreakers. please try to get that straight.

and racial discrimination is NOT the same as illegal migration from one country to another.

and the way in which you used the term "yankee" displays an oh so everpresent racial bias. (that means you are indeed a racist, by your own post.)

Illegal is illegal. Fair enough. But the ultimate decision of who or what is illegal will always rest with a judge.

So, if for example, you're given a ticket for making an illegal U-turn the police officer cannot detain you for any amount of time. Rather, you're given a ticket recording your "violation" but, more importantly, you're given the chance to take your case to court and argue your case in front of a judge.

The problem with the AZ anti-immigrant law is that it gives local law enforcement to, first, decide who's "illegal" in the country and, two, to hold these "illegals" in jail until a judge can hear their case.

In other words, the fact that someone is arrested is to be used against them in a court of law. So, if immigration law calls for anyone arrested for any offense to be deported, which is the case, then those that were arrested just because a police officer suspected them to be "illegals" can be deported even if these "illegals" are going through a complex procedure to become legal residents or citizens of the US.

Get it? If there's a warrant for an arrest then, fine, arrest the suspect. But if there isn't a warrant and you've committed a violation the law has decided is not worthy of an arrest, then no police officer in the US should have the right to hold you in detention.

This is why the AZ law will not prevail in the Supreme Court regardless of how "conservative" it is.

Esam-problem is, if you give a ticket to an illegal alien for being here illegally, who exactly are you making the ticket out to? They probably have a false name and address anyway. Or even if they don't, do you actually expect them to go to court if they are here illegally? I salute your idealistic example, but in reality I don't see it working.

Esam - So, if for example, you're given a ticket for making an illegal U-turn the police officer cannot detain you for any amount of time.

Wrong. If you make an illegal U-Turn and the Police Officer asks you for Driver's License, Registration, and Proof of Insurance ("No Fault States"). I have seen in Traffic Court those US Citizens in Orange Jumpsuits and wrist and leg shackles (when I went to Traffic Court for a speeding ticket, which I admitted and paid for). This is what the Arizona Law is demanding that Illegal Aliens must abide by just like US Citizens.

The problem with the AZ anti-immigrant law is that it gives local law enforcement to, first, decide who's "illegal" in the country

Nope. That is for the Judge to determine if the suspect is legal or illegal.

and, two, to hold these "illegals" in jail until a judge can hear their case.

And how is that different from the Federal Law and ICE. Except the Federal Government has abidicated their Responsibility, by not doing anything or not enough, to the States US Constitution Article 4 and 10th Amendment, States Rights.

In other words, the fact that someone is arrested is to be used against them in a court of law. So, if immigration law calls for anyone arrested for any offense to be deported, which is the case, then those that were arrested just because a police officer suspected them to be "illegals" can be deported even if these "illegals" are going through a complex procedure to become legal residents or citizens of the US.

That is how the Federal Law works. As the initial violation of the Federal Law is a Felony.

If there's a warrant for an arrest then, fine, arrest the suspect

Do you even know what an arrest warrant is. By your statements, NO. How about "Probable Cause".

But if there isn't a warrant and you've committed a violation the law has decided is not worthy of an arrest, then no police officer in the US should have the right to hold you in detention.

Tell that to the US News Media Journalists held in "detention" for years for Contempt of Court.

But even if you don't have any documentation on you a police officer cannot arrest you if he can't determine there's a warrant for your arrest. The worst that can happen is that he will tell you to step out of the car and not drive it.

He'll then give a citation for lack of documents and tell you that as long as you show up at the courthouse with the documents you're OK.

Again, we're talking about police officers and not ICE or immigration agents, and that's exactly where the AZ law goes wrong. Please keep this in mind.

Another good reason to make Obama a one term president come next election and another reason to vote against every Democrat on the ballot.

You right wingers/ teabaggers/ republicans that advocate about individual liberties and constitutional rights only yell and scream when it YOUR rights that are being violated. You are so blind to see that Americans are composed of all different nationalities, black, brown, tan yellow white. The very liberties and freedoms you guys cry and moan about that the president is supposedly "taking away" , are the very freedoms this law would have taken away from a person like myself and my family who did come here LEGALLY and who do abide by America's laws. This law was flawed from the get go. Any law that would require a person like myself who is dark skinned to carry identification with them at all times would be a violation of my civil liberties. Im happy part of this racist law was abolished, and those of you who feel that this would not violate anybodys individual rights have yet to be placed in the shoes of a minority in America.

Ron.., and others who subscribe to the concept that ethnic make-up justifies the majority of the 30,000,000 souls now here, not as citizens of the United States, but of foreign nations, and do not choose to give us any loyalty whatsoever.

Peculiar that Ron restricts the right to retain the loyalty to their nation of origin simply to mestizos.... the Spanish-speakers. How about the Arab-speakers? Chinese-speakers? Small percentages indeed. Do you intend to absorb them too, and require them to speak Spanish?

I would laugh at the lack of logic if not for the tragedy you face. You know NOTHING about the Muslims you shelter with your floods of entering packs if not gangs of illegals. Your naïveté about your partners in crime is tragic.

As to Ron’s concept of the “We were here first” motto for taking over the United States…. the propaganda is ringing to the ears of the uneducated and weak minded… and greedy something-for-nothing brigade.

The "hispanic 'race'" (they are NOT a race) was NOT here first. Even the word you use exemplifies that. It means, etymologically speaking, Spanish-speaking LOL. Language does not define race.

Your mestizos descent is, today, at least 99% Spanish invaders and destroyers of your Indigenous natives, (why else speak Spanish!). Yes, Indigenous ancestors like the respectably revered cultures of the Aztecs and the Mayans.

Yet, even those cultures were practically modern in the 14th and 15th centuries when they were at their best... and when they, even themselves, were descendants of The First Nation of natives to North America... the Cree.

And their earliest occupation was Canada and America. And THEY AS AN ENTITY ARE STILL HERE.

Your Indigenous blood, a trace factor in your genetic make-up today, is from migrant tribes of the Crees, who were the ancestors of all North American tribes... way before your tribes were a gleam in their Cree daddy's eyes.

If you want to play the "who's on first" game ... lol it is our American Crees... whose genes are evident in virtually all of us. Paleo-archeological finds have established their antiquity. Now, they define Race and a brilliant one it is.

Spaniards? ha! They came to destroy your distant ancestors in the 16th Century. Compare them with us Americans? We had Europeans who came to trade, intermingle, and enhance the bloodlines in the beginning, not destroy, and this is documented from the 8th and 9th centuries on.

You "hispanics" were NOT "here first" YOU WERE ALL HERE LAST! Whether you want to rely on your European or your Indigenous ancestry, American ancestry goes back farther than yours. You are as alien to us as makes no never mind.

in reply to

david-475776's post 2.53

Also stating the Reconquest of States of the United States of America is called a Declaration of War, or at the very least Sedition.

and SecondSight's post' 2.56

We are at war. O yes, we have been meticulously invaded by the foot soldiers of that war by their leaders’ clever Silent Invasion.

All babies born in the United States–except those born to enemy aliens in wartime or the children of foreign diplomats–enjoy American citizenship under the Supreme Court's long-standing interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment. This can be found on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_the_United_States under the heading Birthright citizenship.

If indeed this is an "invasion" and we are in a "silent war", any child born on US soil to an illegal alien who participates in the silent war can be considered "born to enemy aliens" in wartime during the recognized time span of that "war".

JQ - Thank you for your support. As for skip - I skip him. And Penn - well he could have been my hero till he got to the part about education. I am and educator, with a Classics (Greek and Latin in case Penn and skip don't know) degree and one in English education with a minor in ESOL (English Speakers of Other Languages) and I teach middle grades now (secondary education) and teach language through etymological awareness. I require students to not only know what that means but once they do they are required to only use that word in reference to the daily study. The kids I teach are not average but well above. I have taught lower level learners as well and physically impaired and homebound. I am also ESOL certified - not that Penn gives a rat's behind - and have taught kids of at least eighty different cultures and speak eighty different languages. I help them assimilate to the culture of our country while staying true to their own. I agree with the AZ law because country when I travel outside this country (and I do frequently) I am required to show my passport to be stamped, take off my shoes, have air blown at me while standing in an enclosed archway, send my baggage and computer and cameras through the detector as well. If you travel outside the country you know the drill. Why not require Mexicans to have a passport or the equivalent. I've been to Mexico and would love to go back to join an archeological dig but the way things are now - it is impossible. I love Mexico and wish the people would love their country as I do. It's late and I'm due at the airport in the morning. So as for you JQ - you get 99% - I always leave a little wiggle room for improvement. As for those other two - skip - you get a D- and I'll bet I'm not too far off from the truth. Penn - I deal with your kind everyday - you like to mix it up, create the classroom firestorm then sit back and watch the teacher crumble. I don't crumble. EVER! You get an 'F' - and I bet that's not too far from the truth either.

Here's my disclaimer - if you find a spelling error I add five points to the daily grade. Yawn! Good night.

Sue, it is wonderful that you have learn to count to 100, and that you know all your ABCs, but they do not teach classes in common sense; I'm confident that you have an ample amount of it, however, all of us being perfectly flawed, cannot always put it to good use. My comment concerning the people responsible for your education was a momentary lapse of reasoning on my part. I will except my "F" in humiliation, however, I will not apologize more than twice; apparently you did not see my first apology.

Not wishing to antagonize you any further on this matter, I will withdrawal from marking your paper in the hopes for a better grade. It is my sincere desire that I can be your hero in the future. Wishing you a safe flight.... Penn-sylvania

American Latina, I just read one of your clueless rants. This bill has nothing to do with race or politics. I'll get into the race thing later. Just fyi, the judge (Bolton) that overturned some of the provisions in the bill is a republican. I am neither democrat or republican and I support this bill in its entireity. Many democrats in this state of AZ also approve of this bill. Why should it be any of your business what this state wants to do concerning immigration? Illinois doesn't have the same problems as we do, you have no idea what's going on here.

Any law that would require a person like myself who is dark skinned to carry identification with them at all times would be a violation of my civil liberties

The bill states that those that are not legal residents to carry ID on them at all times, it doesn't say "brown people." As far as race goes, again if you read the bill you would understand. Nowhere in the bill does it say "mexican" it says "illegal alien" so don't tell me the bill is racist. I spoke to a police officer here in AZ and he told me if you're a citizen there shouldn't be a problem verifying that you're a legal resident, just your drivers license is enough.

Furthermore if you would have read the bill, it states in Page 4, top line. "The final determination of an alien's immigration status shall be determined by the law enforcement officer's authorization by the federal government to ascertain the alien's status OR the law enforcement officer's communication with federal customs and immigration enforcement." --------It's all written there, they just can't lock you up without proof. They need to verify with customs if you're here legally, if you don't show up in the database, they take you away. What's so bad about that? what's so hard to understand about that?

Put yourself in the other country's shoes. If you came across someone who wasn't a legal resident and didn't have ID, wouldn't you be suspicious? Wouldn't you want to safeguard the citizens of your country? wouldn't you want to know who this person is? Name ONE country that doesn't require you to carry ID? If americans have to carry IDs when they visit any foreign country why shouldn't people who are not legal american citizens or legal residents not be required to? What gives them that priviledge?

JQ;

1) The sky is not always blue;" Think adjectively"

2) If you're going to use words that have multiple meanings then it is up to you to clarify.

3) I did not directly insult Sue's education; I directly insulted the public educational system, from which I'm still trying to recover from. Nevertheless, I sincerely apologized to her twice, and accepted my "F".

JQ, your intent to make my assertions about corporations sound ridiculous is a measure of your inability to connect the dots; which proves my point that the abundance of information, such as facts and figures, is useless without the commonsense to arrange it usefully. Certainly you do not realize the seriousness of the situation we are all in, even though it has played out before your very eyes. I offer you a few of my sensible observations in hopes it will change the tone of our exchanges.....

We are being set up by big money; and when I say big money, I don't mean American. The money I am talking about is international corporations; some of them Chinese. Take a look who's buying up all the U.S. debt. Here's a hypothetical; all of our jobs have gone overseas because the American wage is one of the highs in the world. Apparently, what is trying to be accomplished is a one world economy. If this is true, the American wage has either got to come down, or the Chinese wage has got to go up. It is simple economics. So what do you do to accomplish this? First of all, you buy all of the U.S. Securities you can. You drawl as many factory jobs out of the country with the low cost of labor in your country. Use your money and the leverage of your profits to buy U.S. Securities and to buy political power. Stalemate the immigration laws to drawl in cheap labor from the southern borders, thereby, sopping up whenever jobs you can't move out of the country; such as construction, and various other menial jobs. Next you start supplying money for loans that people can't afford. As more and more people start losing their jobs, they start to default on their loans. You take possession of all the properties. Now you own land in America and you didn't have to fire a shot to get it. The next thing that happens is the economy crashes. People can't find work. The unemployed start to get hungry. What do you think a hungry individual is going to do when offered a job for 2.50 an hour? They are going to take it and eat their low quality food with their chopsticks JQ.

The same thing that's happening in Mexico is happening in our country. The governing is corrupt, and as a result, the people have been sold out. Mexico, not being as powerful as the U.S., has fallen quicker, but make no mistake about it, we are following the same course, and there isn't a thing that we can do about it without making severe sacrifices. The corporation's control all our basic necessities, in some cases the very water we drink. Certainly they have the food market, medical, building supplies, etc. Firmly in their hands.

As far as conservatism and liberalism; in order to conquer a mighty army of people with a smaller army of people you must divide them into smaller groups, hence, black against white, gays against rates, Americans against Mexicans, republicans against democrats. If they can successfully get everyone to hate each other they have won the battle before it has begun. Truly, united we stand, divided we fall. Forget about ideology, race, political party; it's a waste of time. The news media provokes incongruity; they no longer offer news; they offer opinion, thereby, they can pretty much choose which topics will be discussed, and generally they are topics that divide people.

This is a trojan horse war tactic. And they've been very successful so for using it.

My teacher always told me I had a wild imagination; I hope she's right.

JQ; if you have a serious response, i'm interested in hearing it; otherwise don't waste your time. I'm not thin skinned, nor am I interested in a persons self-esteem. I'm also not impressed or intimidated by the wallpaper that people earn in college.

Regarding individual freedom... often it is better to put aside the traditional views and start from scratch, thereby, you truly think as a free individual, which is something you said conservatism represents. If this is true, demonstrate it with ideas rather than ideology. If you want to be free, free your mind and start over.

Penn - I never bragged about what college degrees I do or do not have, so I'm not sure where the "I'm not impressed or intimidated by the wallpaper that people earn in college" comment came from. I just noticed you pandering to skip while simultaneously degrading Sues; skips an obvious liberal and I think Sues leans more conservative which speaks as to what views you hold. You can preach all you want about how "they" want to divide and conquer and how ignorant us unenlightened people are about that fact (I'm not, we just have different opinions on who "they" are). However, I would at the very least do that preaching prior to spewing your own divisive bigotry about Christians.

Do I really need to clarify what version of a word I'm using? When dealing with homonyms I would think that rather than requiring the individual making the post to specify which meaning he/she intends, the reader should instead look at the context in which it was used and make an educated guess based on that context. Let's be real though, once again this was not a benevolent attempt to provide me with free education. You were not being the good Sumaritan, trying to help the bumbling halfwit with improving his proficiency in the English language. This is a tactic used commonly by idealogues on both sides to paint someone as being intellectually inferior, thus ruining or reducing their credibility. Somewhat divisive preacherman.

Also, this idea that the only way I can truly be free is to surrender my beliefs and values (open my mind), is ridiculous. Sorry, that's another thing we do not subscribe to (can I say we without offending). Never believe this nonsense that in order to be truly free you have to relinquish your freedoms; as if that's not obvious.

JQ. read your post and show me where you presented any constructive ideas. The only thing you did was defended your entrenched ideology while at the same time trying to redefine me. If an individual cherishes an unmovable mindset they allow themselves to become an easy target. If you want to convince me of your righteousness on any matter convince me with ideas rather than ideological attacks.

Closed mind verses open mind. Which do you think is free?

Sorry Cameroon but that is where you are wrong on this issue. Obama has been doing more deporting of illegal immigrants than Bush did and plans to continue to do so. He is planning on cracking down on that situation. That's not going to help him get the Latino vote. With that being said, I am sickened by this country's government and our immigration laws. Have you ever once looked into what they need to do to come over here legally? The government makes it almost impossible for them to do so! They average around $70 USD a week, working 12 hour days. They come here to better their lives. While I do not necessarily agree with them being here illegally, I do understand why they do it. The only way that this issue will be solved is if we work at finding a solution and reform our immigration laws. I on the other hand, am planning on moving to Mexico with my children so that they don't have to deal with racist laws such as this one. In Mexico the people there are so friendly and have such a welcoming attitude toward Americans (with the exception of a few dangerous border towns). I don't understand why U.S. citizens can't do the same.

True, and Bush did it also. Sad how motivations in government are driven off of re-election instead of the needs of the country!

Michelle, you are the prime example of why this country is about to get FLUSHED. They care nothing about the law and breaking it is what they DO BEST. They have contempt for our country and laws and want nothing to do with becoming citizens and NO OBAMA is NOT deporting more Mexicans than anyone before him. He is showing a BLIND eye to the problem AND YES he is after the Mexican vote because he has NO chance of staying in office without them. What we need to do is vote out his protection and put in people that will enforce the laws and impeach Obama and deport him out of the country as being the illegal immigrant that he is. The problem with him is do you deport him to Kenya or Saudi Arabia!!!

Michelle...relative to how many people are here illegally and still continue to cross our border illegally, the amount of people Bush deported is meaningless. And the exact same applies to Obama. The current deportations are for show. They don't make a dent in the problem.

Like Obama admitted, he is not going to enforce the borders because he needs that for "Comprehensive Immigration Reform", which everyone with a brain knows is code words for AMNESTY.

Michelle - You are correct about preserving the Latino vote, but wrong in the way Obama is going about it. He is deporting the illegals to satiisfy the LEGAL Latinos as well as those who are opposed to the border situation in this country. All the polls taken have shown that a majority of legal Latinos are for the Arizona bill and would like to see something done about the problem like any other American citizen. So in that respect he is preserving the Latino vote by answering their call for deportation on the part of all citizens.

That's the short of it. I also agree with hs 321. Please read that post.

Amazing that all the millions of people who came here and became citizens. It wasn't impossible to them. Was it michele? Maybe some of our citizens need to take the same test to see if they can pass it. Because they sure as hell don't know anything about the history of the united states. It's amazing when peole who become citizens are more proud to be a citizen than the natural born citizens of the united states are! They know more about this country than 50% of natural born citizens. Especially the generations that can't see what all of our sons fought for so we could have our freedoms. It makes me sick to see natural born citizens fight to let god knows who come to our country and try to make it into thier 3rd world sh!thole!!!!!!!!

Tim - Wow! You really believe your post? These are different times. You do believe times change? I hope so, because they do. If I saw you face to face without the aid of google, I would asked you to take a test. How many amendments to the US Constitution? What do we call the first ten? Recite them in order with an explanation for reasons why they were necessary. Get off your high horse, please. Don't assume all Americans born in this country know nothing about this country.

Michelle, thank you for your funny comments. However there is a possibility that some readers may not realize you are being sarcastic so we need to clarify some points:

First off it is far more difficult for you as a US citizen to immigrate to Mexico than it is for a Mexican to immigrate to the USA. It is somewhat easier to get a "non-immigrant visa" that allows you to stay there for extended periods of time but with an FM3 Visa you are not allowed to work, own property or receive government benefits of any type. Most importantly, "Mexican authorities require for the issuance of a FM3 visa that the applicant prove that they have 'sufficient funds to sustain themselves while in Mexico' and/or a proven steady income."

How does "reforming" our immigration law solve the problem? If by reform you mean opening our borders to uneducated, unskilled Mexicans then to be fair we must also open our borders to immigrants from every other third world country on the planet. There are tens of millions of Chinese, African, Vietnamese, Eastern European and others who are just as poor as Mexicans and just as eager to come here and better their lives. Is it fair that since they can't walk across the border they should be denied entry to the US?

Having visited Mexico on both business and personal travel I agree with you that people there are friendly and welcoming. They are happy to see me spend money on food, lodging, souvenirs and entertainment - and then leave. I am equally happy to see visitors from Mexico and elsewhere come to Chicago and spend their money - and then leave.

How is the fabric of our society being torn apart by illegal immigration? How is it affecting YOU?

Yeah, sure, these people travel long distances in the most dificult and dangerous conditions so they can vote for Democrats. Sure, uh, huh, that makes sense.

CHICAGO - VERY well said.

CLARKEN -- well, for example, two hospitals and a school had to be closed in Arizona because the illegals overwhelmed the services provided, and the facilities ran out of money. Expand that to the whole state, and the "fabric" of tha state is being torn apart, unless you don't see medical care and education as being important, not to mention the laws of any state.

Increased taxes to support all of this mess affects YOU and everybody else, also.

Clarken, ask the family in the southwest who's members were murdered on the ranch the bought and paid for with hard work!!!! Ask them how it's affected them!!!

Michelle.........Do You realize how much money it takes to come over the border Illegally?? The Smuggling Operations in TX & AZ charge $1500.00 for Women & Children and $2000.00 for Men. My old boss hired Illegal Workers who PAID this to come over then worked to raise & send the money back to Mexico for the rest of the Family to come over. My Boss Finally quit paying them Cash under the Table once he heard about Employers being Fined & Having to Pay ALL the Back Employee Taxes for Each Illegal. One Man had gone to the NC Mexican Consulate to obtain a Green SS Card w/a 949 number for $50.00. We started paying him on it like a SS#. This Guy got upset when TAXES were taking out then wanted to go back to "Cash under the Table". With this C.U.T.T., this man bought & holds title on 2 Vechicles I could only Dream of Owning, along with More Toys and Fancier Clothes, Parties/Drinking, etc., along with walking away from Medical Debts by going back home, etc. It took IRS 3 yrs before the Question the # which they said was a Sub-Contr # and to pay him on 1099, even though he was Illegal. Because they are ILLEGAL and NOT Paying into Our Systems....They are Living the American Dream of becoming rich while being Mexican....and the Americans are living & becoming the Mexican Poor while being an Taxpaying American that pays for the all the AID that these Illegals are receiving for Free.

Chicago-since my children are Mexican American and my husband is Mexican, I will actually have no trouble becoming a permanent resident of Mexico. I was not being sarcastic, however you clearly were. Since I am bilingual both written and orally and I currently teach ENL, I am positive I will have no issues finding employment there. I do thank you for your concern though. (Please note sarcasm in last comment.)

When I speak of reform, I am talking about changing our laws so that they have a chance to come here. Are you aware of how difficult it is for them to come here? I'm not talking about just Mexicans. I am referring to Hondurans, Guatemalans, El Salvadorians, Dominicans, etc. It is near impossible for them unless you are of significant wealth. I am talking about those that are already here illegally, that have children born here or that have married here to a citizen, and changing the laws so that they can be here legally. Is it fair to deport a spouse and leave a child without their parent for several years while they are waiting for INS to grant them permission? For the other parent to be without their husband/wife and have to rely on government assistance to be able to provide for their family? I have been through the immigration process before. It is a long, difficult battle. I see it everyday with the students I work with and see how these children suffer. There has to be a better solution.

My point to all of this is, what happened to America being land of the free? What happened to us being a melting pot? People are also quick to forget that WE took the southwestern land from the Mexicans, just as we took land from the indigenous people! What if we had been born on the other side of the border? Being up here makes us no better than they are! We all breathe the same air.

Michelle - make sure you go about moving to Mexico legally. or they'll throw your ass in jail. Oh and by the way... drop by the immigration office in Mexico and have your citizenship changed.

swmoman-795422

Michelle, you are the prime example of why this country is about to get FLUSHED. They care nothing about the law and breaking it is what they DO BEST. They have contempt for our country and laws and want nothing to do with becoming citizens... What we need to do is vote out his protection and put in people that will enforce the laws and impeach Obama and deport him out of the country as being the illegal immigrant that he is. The problem with him is do you deport him to Kenya or Saudi Arabia!!!

Wow. I'm the prime example as to why this country is about to be flushed? Hmmm... I am speechless. I guess I can only thank you for that honor.

Now as to the rest of your comment. Why in the world would you say that they have contempt for our laws and have no interest in becoming citizens? Have you ever talked to one? The interesting fact is that the Latinos that I know would all love to become residents and citizens. I invite you to look into the process for them to even be eligible to receive a passport just to travel here! Do you even know how difficult it is? The requirements for them to come here are far more challenging than someone from Europe, Asia, etc.

As for your remark about Obama and where to deport him to I refuse to comment on that. It just shows your ignorance and how small minded this world is.

"since my children are Mexican American and my husband is Mexican, I will actually have no trouble becoming a permanent resident of Mexico."

Well then please feel free to do so...and while you at it encourage a few million to go back with you...

Sues-343312, several generations of kids can't answer those questions. As video games, internet, and sexually active thirteen year olds progressed, learning fell by the wayside. I'm not saying all kids now are "dumb", but when you go through a drive through and someone can't make the change the screen tells to...... when someone can't name the states or find the one they live in on a map..... Somethings gotta give.

I don't want immigrants to have to learn all that stuff, hell I can't remember most of it and I've had some college history courses. I want ENGLISH to be learned, proper I.D or driver's license's issued, taxes payed, auto insurance payed. The last three of those things I'd like for the deadbeat citizens already leeching off the system to do.

Michelle 16,"The requirements for them to come here are far more challenging than someone from Europe, Asia, etc.". Then if they follow the process to the letter it should make them that much more proud to be "Americans".

Tim-laws have changed within the last 10 years and have made it near impossible for people to come here legally. I implore you to look into this before you open your mouth.

As for what makes me sick-small minded people who have no clue what it's like for these people and who are unwelcoming. Remember that none of us were here originally. This land originally belonged to the indigenous people, and even they weren't from here. They crossed the land bridge in Asia to where Alaska is before the continents divided. Now please go do some RESEARCH on AMERICAN HISTORY and do not assume that I do not know the facts.

I agree Jeremy... History should be taught but not retained.. you can always go find it in a book or on the internet. But there are some things that you mentioned that should definitely be done if you want to be here. Just do it legally. And yes I'm really tired of our own citizens milking off of the tit of the welfare system as well. Get a job, at least try.

to michelle 16

have you ever looked at what it takes to move to some other country. you have to start with proven means of financial support. and no criminal record of any kind. not just no felonies.

Brent-1232082- I am positive that I will have no issues becoming a legal resident of Mexico. Thank you for your concern. Since I was married in Mexico and have already gone to their immigration office, I have many of the same rights as my husband. My children are dual citizens.

No Sun Of A Gun- Many immigrants have been returning to their countries since our economy has plummeted and they have lost their employment. Please do feel free to pick up a newspaper.

buffalo bob-937857- Yes I have done my research into what needs to take place. I have no criminal record. I work at a school as an ENL teacher and do the translating there since I am bilingual. I also do professional translating for several companies in the area. I will have no problem supporting myself. In addition to all of this my husband is on his way to becoming a state policeman there. We will have no issues financially whatsoever. I am not uneducated and know that my process there will be long and will take time for the paperwork to be complete.

michelle 16 - The immigration requirements need to be tough because we already have more of them here legally than we need. The amount of LEGAL immigrants into this country is 140K per month. That works out to almost 1.7M per year. That is too much. We should be limiting LEGAL immigration to about 50~60K per month. And that means allowing 0 illegals.

When we have over 7.5% unemployment immigration should be shut down - completely. When unemployment drops down to <5% we can begin allowing immigrants again.

Brent-I too agree that more citizens should try to find employment. I am from Elkhart County in Indiana. It is one of the hardest hit areas in the nation with unemployment. I see people from all walks of life. I lost my job last year and I worked hard to search for employment before I found my current position. People say that the illegals are stealing our jobs. However, how many people do you know that would sit there and pluck the feathers off of ducks and cut off their beaks, heads, and feet? I'm just giving an example.

Michelle 16: "I am sickened by this country's government and our immigration laws. Have you ever once looked into what they need to do to come over here legally? The government makes it almost impossible for them to do so!"

Michelle, there might actually be a reason for that. Check into other countries immigration laws. You don't see a lot of illegals entering Canada.

kattlekween- What about the 3rd generation Mexican family that was here LEGALLY and their crazy caucasian neighbor went over there yelling at them saying they were illegals and killed the Mexican man because of this law. Is this what you were referring to?

PluffMudGal-As to that comment you must admit that your employer has a major role in this one. I cannot answer for the actions of the illegal man that is referred to. I am curious as to know what state you are from? Where I am living a lot of places were cracked down on for their immigration issues.

michelle- you will never understand what is going on in this country , you eyes are blinded by your relationships, i live in south texas near the border, i know what kind of people they are, they killed my brother and almost killed me, and i'm not a gringo, i'm a cree indian, we did not steal this land from them, you better learn your history. so anytime you want to leave go ahead , and by the way, most of them do not qualify for citizenship because they have no skills that we want, thats what legal immigration is about, we get to choose who we let into this country not them. good luck in mexico, i hope you like it.

Porkbevr-I am not sure how they are still entering the country illegally. Last I knew of it is extremely difficult and dangerous for them to cross over here. Several people have told me this.

maddog-752810-I have looked into Canada's immigration laws. We had spoken of moving there, however I do not want to live where it's cold. They don't have a lot of illegal immigrants there because Canada actually makes it easier for them to go there legally. Many people that I know have moved there and gotten passports from their home country to go there and work. The process there is much easier on them to go to Canada for some reason.

BUSHWACKER01-

michelle- you will never understand what is going on in this country , you eyes are blinded by your relationships, i live in south texas near the border, i know what kind of people they are, they killed my brother and almost killed me, and i'm not a gringo, i'm a cree indian, we did not steal this land from them, you better learn your history. so anytime you want to leave go ahead , and by the way, most of them do not qualify for citizenship because they have no skills that we want, thats what legal immigration is about, we get to choose who we let into this country not them. good luck in mexico, i hope you like it.

You say I am blinded by my relationships. Could the same not be said of you? I mean with your experience? I am truly sorry for your loss. I do not know your situation and why that happened, however I know that your family must be suffering a great deal.

I did not say that you stole this land from them. I said that the original people here were those that were indigenous. Many Mexicans are of indigenous decent (Mayan and Aztec) and the southwestern land was part of Mexico. I said that the caucasians came and took the land from the indigenous people as well as the southwest from Mexico.

I am of European and Native American decent. I have studied history. I work with teaching my students history/soc. studies, science, math, and language arts.

Gordy- Whenever you're ready I'm more than happy to leave. You are going with me since you talked about taking the trash, so I'm assuming yourself included (snickering as well). Seriously? What is this put up or shut up about? If you read this entire discussion you would know that I said I'm planning on leaving within the next few years. Please, I am implore of you to seek your GED. Apparantly you did not graduate based on your lack of proper punctuation and capitalization. Either that or you're just too LAZY.

michell- good luck , you sound like a very intelligent woman, i pray all works out for you, but until you truly open your eyes, please be careful, and keep your children close to you, they like to kidnap and kill policeman and their families down there. vaya con dios

Bushwacker- I am fully aware of that and I have discussed many options with my husband. Even here in the States I do not let my children out of my sight. I do not let them play in the backyard without an adult present. The part that we are going to is not as dangerous as many of the border towns. The same thing can be said for here though. I do not think I would want to raise my children in NYC or LA or Detroit for example. Those might be fine for some people but I would worry for their safety. Thank you for your kind words and I pray too that God is with you.

SUES, You have to remember that most illegals don't pay SS or taxes on their earnings. Can we afford to get after them? Can we afford not to? I moved to PA from NC in 2000. We had many more migrant farm workers there then here. People jumped all over BP's chairman for the term "little people" I saw Mexico's 2nd richest person refer to these workers as "the bottom of the Pyramid". Pretty much the same thing. I'd have to check, but look at the dollar/peso exchange and you'll see why it's worth it to them to come here. You'd be surprised what $10,000 will do there. I personally have no desire to go there. I've been to San Antonio 3 times----love TX---had no problems there----more in the Bahamas. This will be going on for awhile.

Michelle 16, "how many people do you know that would sit there and pluck the feathers off of ducks and cut off their beaks, heads, and feet?", that's a whole other problem. It's been ground into the past several generations to "get an education, go to college, get that high paying job.....". Well guess what, college aint free and when your done you end up with a peice of paper you might as well wipe your a$$ with. The actual "labor" force has left the building. Nobody wants to work anymore, they just want the check. I've done alot of things I didn't want to do. I'm still not at the best job, I'm just at a good job for where I'm at region wise. If there were ducks to be plucked and bills to be paid, then ducks it is.

Bush jr. didn't enforce immigration laws any better. You're just against Obama and you want more ammo.

Thanks Penn, I will and thank you for your intelligent response. Very refreshing.

PEACE

illegals in Louisiana make an average of $15.00 per hour

I said that the original people here were those that were indigenous. Many Mexicans are of indigenous decent (Mayan and Aztec) and the southwestern land was part of Mexico. I said that the caucasians came and took the land from the indigenous people as well as the southwest from Mexico.

in 1835 Texas was it's own territory. Texas went to war with Mexico and won. Texas an indipendent territory decided to become part of the US. you should probably speak to the folks in mexico that made all of these deals.

1845: The independent Republic of Texas (1836-1845) is annexed to the United States. The territory of Texas extended north to 42 degrees north (into modern Wyoming) due to a secret treaty between Mexico and Texas.

1846: Oregon Territory is ceded to the U.S. from Britain following an 1818 joint claim on the territory (which resulted in the phrase "Fifty-Four Forty or Fight!"). The Treaty of Oregon establishes the boundary at 49 degrees north.

1848: The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo following the Mexican War between the U.S. and Mexico resulted in the purchase of Arizona, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Utah, and western Colorado.

1853: With the Gadsden Purchase of 1853, the land acquisition that resulted in the area of the 48 contiguous states today was completed. Southern Arizona and southern New Mexico were purchased for $10 million and named for the U.S. minister to Mexico, James Gadsden.

Stan-actually most illegals pay taxes now because they can apply for an ITN# which serves similar to a soc. sec. #.

michelle,

I work with teaching my students history/soc. studies, science, math, and language arts.

it is scary to think that you could be teaching my children. no wonder we are headed toward socialism.

Jeremy then I must give you credit because not many people would do that. It is difficult to find a strong work ethic in many people anymore but I must commend you on yours.

michelle,

are you a paid employee of the mexica-movement.

mexica-movement is a group of indigenous people who would like to overthrow the US Government and send all of the Europeans back to Europe.

drug money and criminal activity is sent back to mexico to fund the mexica-movement.

http://www.mexica-movement.org/

Honest Jo- Don't worry. I wouldn't be working with your students. I work with ENL students. Besides, if they are as closed-minded as yourself, then they wouldn't last a day in the school I work at.

Also-the Mexicans signed the treaty because they could no longer defend themselves. Please read more thoroughly before copying and pasting. Anyone can copy and paste, including myself.

Outnumbered militarily and with many of its large cities occupied, Mexico could not defend itself and was also faced with internal divisions. It had little choice but to make peace on any terms.^[42] The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, signed on February 2, 1848, by American diplomat Nicholas Trist and Mexican plenipotentiary representatives Luis G. Cuevas, Bernardo Couto, and Miguel Atristain, ended the war and gave the U.S. undisputed control of Texas, established the U.S.-Mexican border of the Rio Grande River, and ceded to the United States the present-day states of California, Nevada, Utah, and parts of Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and Wyoming. In return Mexico received US $18,250,000^[43] ($457,373,077 today)—less than half the amount the U.S. had attempted to offer Mexico for the land before the opening of hostilities^[44]—and the U.S. agreed to assume $3.25-million ($81,450,000 today) in debts that the Mexican government owed to U.S. citizens.^[9]

Honest Jo-Really? Were you dropped on your head as a child? Seriously? Where do you come up with your ridiculous and unfounded comments? I WORK AT A SCHOOL AS A TRANSLATOR AND ENL INSTRUCTOR. Please refrain from making anymore comments toward me unless you can learn proper grammer and the correct usage of capitalization and punctuation. Apparently I need to give you some classes because if I were your teacher, you would know these things!

Michelle (#3.46)- The reasons don't matter, the results are the same. The tired rhetoric proclaiming the U.S.A. "stole" the lands from Mexico is false and needs to end. What wasn't won in battle was purchased. Both are considered legitimate transactions.

p.s. - "grammer" should be grammar - I hope ENL doesn't stand for gifted children or they'll be laughing you out of the classroom. I have an English degree, and some of your sentence structures look a bit suspect.

Porkbevr-However Mexico did not want them to have the land. That is my point. They wanted the land. The U.S.A. was going to take it one way or another. That fact cannot be argued. Mexico only signed it because they could no longer defend themselves.

i would know which things?

if your only contribution to this site is to be grammar police the money spent on your education was wasted.

great copy and paste job also.

also if you knew the immigration laws it would help us to have an educated conversation.

michelle,

Mexico did not want them to have the land. That is my point. They wanted the land. The U.S.A. was going to take it one way or another. That fact cannot be argued. Mexico only signed it because they could no longer defend themselves.

really...tell me that you are ot going to try to infer that &quot;you&quot; know what someone was thinking 162 years ago when they signed a document. this is merely your opinion. if it is not then state your source.

and even if they did not want to sign the treaty isn't that what a treaty after a war is all about. one country either has or is about to get their butt kicked and signs a treaty to end the hostilities. do you think that Japan wanted to sign a treaty after WWII or they were just tired of watching their people get killed?

really?

Michelle, The battles in TX were in fact Mexico trying to retain it's land. They lost. They didn't lose to Federal troops. They lost to a little organized TX army. The Feds didn't get there until it was over. As far as I know, we never attacked Mexico itself? We defeated the British, pushed the Indians into reservations, did this and did that, and "poof" the USA came out of it. Tell me, how does that figure into immigration?

according to the laws on the US Immigration site asthey are in the books and have been for a long time:

INA: ACT 275 - ENTRY OF ALIEN AT IMPROPER TIME OR PLACE; MISREPRESENTATION AND CONCEALMENT OF FACTS

Sec. 275. [8 U.S.C. 1325]

(a) Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or b oth, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) 1/ Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of-

(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or

(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

(c) An individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

(d) Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, United States Code, or both.

according to the laws on the US Immigration site asthey are in the books and have been for a long time:

INA: ACT 287 - POWERS OF IMMIGRATION OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES

Sec. 287. [8 U.S.C. 1357]

(a) Any officer or employee of the Service authorized under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General shall have power without warrant-

(1) to interrogate any alien or person believed to be an alien as to his right to be or to remain in the United States;

(2) to arrest any alien who in his presence or view is entering or attempting to enter the United States in violation of any law or regulation made in pursuance of law regulating the admission, exclusion, expulsion, or removal of aliens, or to arrest any alien in the United States, if he has reason to believe that the alien so arrested is in the United States in violation of any such law or regulation and is likely to escape before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest, but the alien arrested sh all be taken without unnecessary delay for examination before an officer of the Service having authority to examine aliens as to their right to enter or remain in the United States;

(3) within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States, to board and search for aliens any vessel within the territorial waters of the United States and any railway car, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle, and within a distance of twenty-five miles from any such external boundary to have access to private lands, but not dwellings for the purpose of patrolling the border to prevent the illegal entry of aliens into the United States;

(4) to make arrests for felonies which have been committed and which are cognizable under any law of the United States regulating the admission, exclusion, expulsion, or removal of aliens, if he has reason to believe that the person so arrested is guilty of such felony and if there is likelihood of the person escaping before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest, but the person arrested shall be taken without unnecessary delay before the nearest available officer empowered to commit persons char ged with offenses against the laws of the United States; and

(5) to make arrests-

(A) for any offense against the United States, if the offense is committed in the officer's or employee's presence, or

(B) for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States, if the officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such a felony, if the officer or employee is performing duties relating to the enforcement of the immigration laws at the time of the arrest and if there is a likelihood of the person escaping before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest.

Under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, an officer or employee of the Service may carry a firearm and may execute and serve any order, warrant, subpoena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States. The authority to make arrests under paragraph (5)(B) shall only be effective on and after the date on which the Attorney General publishes final regulations which (i) prescribe the categories of officers and employees of the Service who may use force (including deadly force) and the circumstances under which such force may be used, (ii) establish standards with respect to enforcement activities of the Service, (iii) require that any officer or employee of the Service is not authorized to make arrests under paragraph (5)(B) unless the officer or employee has received certification as having completed a training program which covers such arrests and standards described in clause (ii), and (iv) establish an expedited, internal review process for violations o f such standards, which process is consistent with standard agency procedure regarding confidentiality of matters related to internal investigations.

(b) Any officer or employee of the Service designated by the Attorney General, whether individually or as one of a class, shall have power and authority to administer oaths and to take and consider evidence concerning the privilege of any person to enter, reenter, pass through, or reside in the United States, or concerning any matter which is material or relevant to the enforcement of this Act and the administration of the Service; and any person to whom such oath has been administered (or who has e xecuted an unsworn declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code), under the provisions of this Act, who shall knowingly or willfully give false evidence or swear (or subscribe under penalty of perjury as permitted under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code) to any false statement concerning any matter referred to in this subsection shall be guilty of perjury and shall be punished as provided by s ection 1621, title 18, United States Code.

(c) Any officer or employee of the Service authorized and designated under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, whether individually or as one of a class, shall have power to conduct a search, without warrant, of the person, and of the personal effects in the possession of any person seeking admission to the United States, concerning whom such officer or employee may have reasonable cause to suspect that grounds exist for denial of admission to the United States under this Act which would be disclosed by such search.

(d) In the case of an alien who is arrested by a Federal, State, or local law enforcement official for a violation of any law relating to controlled substances, if the official (or another official)-

(1) has reason to believe that the alien may not have been lawfully admitted to the United States or otherwise is not lawfully present in the United States,

Michelle 16 - Sorry Cameroon but that is where you are wrong on this issue. Obama has been doing more deporting of illegal immigrants than Bush did and plans to continue to do so. He is planning on cracking down on that situation.

************************WRONG**************************
President Obama's Agenda has already been stated by President Obama:
President Obama meeting with Mexican President April 2009, Guadalajara, Mexico. President Obama, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".

President Obama meeting with Mexican President and Canadian Prime Minister, August 2009, Guadalajara, Mexico. President Obama, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".

And Legalization of over 23 Million Illegal Aliens in the US (AP):

And immigration remained a sore spot. While Obama has said he'd like to start crafting an overhaul that legalizes millions of Mexican immigrants, there's little chance of Congress acting this year, since even top administration priorities like health care and climate policy are moving slowly amid heated partisan debate.

And as far as Bush (43) goes:

Congress fearing for their lives failed to pass the Bush 2006 Illegal Alien Act, this was after the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens Illegally (no permits, disruption of traffic, trade and commerce) Nationwide Demonstrated as organized by La Raza. The initial Bush 2006 Illegal Alien Act did not include Amnesty, and demanded Deportations, similar to the successful President Eisenhower "Operation Wetback", a few Million Illegal Aliens Deported, this was watered down by US Congress in the Congressional Version.

Is it fair to deport a spouse and leave a child without their parent for several years while they are waiting for INS to grant them permission?

Do not try to lay a Guilt trip on us, they violated a Federal Law(s) willingly.

For the other parent to be without their husband/wife and have to rely on government assistance to be able to provide for their family?

Wrong many are coming here with their entire families, and collect US Taxpayer paid Public Assistance, so as less things for them to pay for, meaning more money for them to send home to live like kings when they return to their home (Country, Nation) due to monetary exchange rates. With most not wanting to become US Citizens (too expensive, cost of living) as "Immigrants" (as to why they are NOT Illegal Immigrants, they are Illegal Aliens). US Newsmedia Interviews of Illegal Aliens. And California Statistics, one Illegal Alien Works and Ten Collect Public Assistance (therefore, not "Undocumented Workers"), this means over $10 Billion spend per year on Illegal Aliens Public Assistance of California's $85 Billion yearly Budget. While the Illegal Aliens Evade Taxes, Cash for Work Only, no employer paperwork (more deductions, less money and more of a chance of deportations).

This land originally belonged to the indigenous people, and even they weren't from here. They crossed the land bridge in Asia to where Alaska is before the continents divided.

That is why there was NO such a thing as American "indigenous people". Your first sentence is contradicted by your second sentence.

Many Mexicans are of indigenous decent (Mayan and Aztec) and the southwestern land was part of Mexico. I said that the caucasians came and took the land from the indigenous people as well as the southwest from Mexico.

Wrong most Mexicans are descendants of the original Spanish Conquistadors, that massacred the Incas, Aztecs, etc. and forbade the Mayan's "Religion", "Practices" and "Beliefs" as to why the Mayan Almanacs (not "calendars") were stopped at 2012. Those that continued their practices were subject to the same as the Spanish Inquisitions (public torture then murder). This persecution of Mayan practices continued until 2010 when the Mexican Government finally passed a Law, lifting the ban on Mayan practices, including opening Mayan Schools.

I said that the caucasians came and took the land from the indigenous people as well as the southwest from Mexico.

By the way the Spanish Conquistadors were Caucasians.

Michelle 16 - I do not let my children out of my sight.

That is commendable. Many parents feel that their children are someone else's RESPONSIBILITY. (including my younger sister and her husband, which pisses me off).

these "LAWS" are on the US Immigration site:

i am not making this up.

(f) (1) Under regulations of the Attorney General, the Commissioner shall provide for the fingerprinting and photographing of each alien 14 years of age or older against whom a proceeding is commenced under section 240.

(2) Such fingerprints and photographs shall be made available to Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies, upon request.

Michelle,

please explain why you feel that it is OK to not abide by Federal law as it is in the books and has been for a long time.

are there any other "LAWS" that you ignore because this is what you choose to do?

are you involved in any other illegal activities?

how many?

do the parents at the school where you work know and understand your infatuation with ignoring federal laws and promoting illegal activity?

please explain. i would love to hear your rebuttal.

are you still there Michelle or did your class walk in?

are you using a school computer to goof off on the internet.

my my...what a law breaker you are.

Michelle 16, I couldn't keep on reading your ridiculous comments without getting the urge to comment on how wrong and misguided you are. First and foremost, Arizona wasn't taken from Mexico, it was bought by the U.S. after the mexican-american war and the mexicans that lived in the region became instant american citizens as a result. Those people loved being part of the U.S. rather than being mexican because all the mexicans did was send soldiers to rape their women and burn down their villages. Read about how the mexicans treated the people of our southwest while it was still part of mexico, you'll be shocked right to your liberal bone.

Say all you want about how americans are against a melting pot in this country, because it's meaningless. How many posts on here have you read that are against legal immigration? I count 0. Practically all americans have no problem with immigrants that follow the legal process to come here. It's Illegal immigration that most people on here are against. Get that through your head!

I'm hispanic, live in AZ and I support this bill in it's entireity so don't even go there saying that's I'm racist.

these "LAWS" are on the US Immigration site:

INA: ACT 311 - ELIGIBILITY FOR NATURALIZATION

Sec. 311. [8 U.S.C. 1422] The right of a person to become a naturalized citizen of the United States shall not be denied or abridged because of race or sex or because such person is married.

INA: ACT 312 - REQUIREMENTS AS TO UNDERSTANDING THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, HISTORY, PRINCIPLES, AND FORM OF GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES

Sec. 312. [8 U.S.C. 1423]

(a) No person except as otherwise provided in this title shall hereafter be naturalized as a citizen of the United States upon his own application who cannot demonstrate-

(1) an understanding of the English language, including an ability to read, write, and speak words in ordinary usage in the English language: Provided, That the requirements of this paragraph relating to ability to read and write shall be met if the applicant can read or write simple words and phrases to the end that a reasonable test of his literacy shall be made and that no extraordinary or unreasonable conditions shall be imposed upon the applicant; and

(2) a knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of the history, and of the principles and form of government, of the United States.

Illegal is illegal. Fair enough. But the ultimate decision of who or what is illegal will always rest with a judge.

So, if for example, you're given a ticket for making an illegal U-turn the police officer cannot detain you for any amount of time. Rather, you're given a ticket recording your "violation" but, more importantly, you're given the chance to take your case to court and argue your case in front of a judge.

The problem with the AZ anti-immigrant law is that it gives local law enforcement to, first, decide who's "illegal" in the country and, two, to hold these "illegals" in jail until a judge can hear their case.

In other words, the fact that someone is arrested is to be used against them in a court of law. So, if immigration law calls for anyone arrested for any offense to be deported, which is the case, then those that were arrested just because a police officer suspected them to be "illegals" can be deported even if these "illegals" are going through a complex procedure to become legal residents or citizens of the US.

Get it? If there's a warrant for an arrest then, fine, arrest the suspect. But if there isn't a warrant and you've committed a violation the law has decided is not worthy of an arrest, then no police officer in the US should have the right to hold you in detention.

This is why the AZ law will not prevail in the Supreme Court regardless of how "conservative" it is.

The reason it's so hard for people to immigrate to this country is that we've purposefully set it up that way. If they all came at once we couldn't assimilate them. And in fact because they ARE all coming at once illegally we are not assimilating them. We have signs in Spanish and people answering phones in businesses who don't speak English. We have people not learning our customs and standards and not abiding by them. We make it hard for a good reason. That shouldn't be changed.

michelle,

LEGAL IMMIGRANTS are the pillar of our society.

Legal Immigrants are wonderful hard working people from every end of the earth who came here, became legal Americans with all of their heart and soul and are proud to be American.

my great Grandparents were legal immigrants who came to this country, assimilated and became American.

my parents were beaten and persecuted in school if they spoke French. so don't act like nobody but you knows what it is like to be an immigrant.

I am an American with all of my heart and soul.

ESAM,

Get it? If there's a warrant for an arrest then, fine, arrest the suspect. But if there isn't a warrant and you've committed a violation the law has decided is not worthy of an arrest, then no police officer in the US should have the right to hold you in detention.

This is federal law as it is on the US Immigration site and has been for a long time. it is not OK to ignore federal law.

INA: ACT 287 - POWERS OF IMMIGRATION OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES

Sec. 287. [8 U.S.C. 1357]

(a) Any officer or employee of the Service authorized under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General shall have power without warrant-

(1) to interrogate any alien or person believed to be an alien as to his right to be or to remain in the United States;

(2) to arrest any alien who in his presence or view is entering or attempting to enter the United States in violation of any law or regulation made in pursuance of law regulating the admission, exclusion, expulsion, or removal of aliens, or to arrest any alien in the United States, if he has reason to believe that the alien so arrested is in the United States in violation of any such law or regulation and is likely to escape before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest, but the alien arrested sh all be taken without unnecessary delay for examination before an officer of the Service having authority to examine aliens as to their right to enter or remain in the United States;

(3) within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States, to board and search for aliens any vessel within the territorial waters of the United States and any railway car, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle, and within a distance of twenty-five miles from any such external boundary to have access to private lands, but not dwellings for the purpose of patrolling the border to prevent the illegal entry of aliens into the United States;

(4) to make arrests for felonies which have been committed and which are cognizable under any law of the United States regulating the admission, exclusion, expulsion, or removal of aliens, if he has reason to believe that the person so arrested is guilty of such felony and if there is likelihood of the person escaping before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest, but the person arrested shall be taken without unnecessary delay before the nearest available officer empowered to commit persons char ged with offenses against the laws of the United States; and

(5) to make arrests-

(A) for any offense against the United States, if the offense is committed in the officer's or employee's presence, or

(B) for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States, if the officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such a felony, if the officer or employee is performing duties relating to the enforcement of the immigration laws at the time of the arrest and if there is a likelihood of the person escaping before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest.

Under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, an officer or employee of the Service may carry a firearm and may execute and serve any order, warrant, subpoena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States. The authority to make arrests under paragraph (5)(B) shall only be effective on and after the date on which the Attorney General publishes final regulations which (i) prescribe the categories of officers and employees of the Service who may use force (including deadly force) and the circumstances under which such force may be used, (ii) establish standards with respect to enforcement activities of the Service, (iii) require that any officer or employee of the Service is not authorized to make arrests under paragraph (5)(B) unless the officer or employee has received certification as having completed a training program which covers such arrests and standards described in clause (ii), and (iv) establish an expedited, internal review process for violations o f such standards, which process is consistent with standard agency procedure regarding confidentiality of matters related to internal investigations.

(including deadly force)

according to the authors of the federal law they thought that immigration was an important issue and should be enforced.

(a) Any officer or employee of the Service authorized under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General shall have power without warrant-

honest jo awesome research in your posts... I admire your succinct presentations, too. They refute veritably all the nonsense we see here by those who try to excuse the illegals. Their personal agenda come through loud and clear. :) wish i had your gift of succinctness.

Well, michelle you are BUSTED! Lord, people will get a laugh, I think. I sure did.

So you want folks here to think you are a "teacher"? I was appalled at your ignorance and attempt to correct others on idiom when your own is so bad. Especially your own limited vocabulary. Now I think you were using macros provided by your parent Activist mentor! ROFL Like, perhaps, La Raza. Well they have communication problems also

When you said you taught ENL (and more than once) I was puzzled especially in the context as if teaching English to non-English speakers... I never heard of it. In my state we use ESL, English as a Second Language.

Weeeeel, I decided to Google it. O my... I cracked up! It does NOT mean English for Non-english speakers of Language (which was the best I could guess at).

Are you ready???? The ONLY acronym limited to "educational use" is for the English National League.... FOR HOCKEY!!!!!!

Well folks... for or against me! LOLOL please LOL, join me in a belly laugh?

Second Sight- Here in the state of Indiana many schools used to refer to it as ESL. Most of them now call it ENL which stands for English as a New Language. I have had students from Africa, the Ukraine, and Germany. English was not their second language. It was thier 3rd of 4th, so please off of your high horse.

Honest Jo-When I put that they did not want to give up their land, that was insinuated in the article that I copied from. It was on Wikipedia.

No, I did not have a class walk in. I am a law abiding citizen. By the way, it's July. There are no classes here in session. I do not goof off at work. I am good at what I do. What about you? What is your excuse for not being at work and making a living to provide for your famliy instead of being on an immigration discussion all day?

Second Sight-

http://www.goshenschools.org/php/special.programs/enl.php

http://www.hse.k12.in.us/academics/englishNewLang.htm

These two websites support the fact that ENL does exist, and has nothing to do with hockey.

what_the_81- You are entitled to your own opinion, as I am entitled to mine, aunque a mi me da lastima que tu piensas asi. All the Latinos that I know (legal ones included) are in complete disagreement with this law. I have said before, and I will repeat myself, that I do not necessarily agree with them being here illegally. I am saying that our immigration laws need to be reformed so that those who want to be here actually have a chance to be here.

While Arizona may have been bought, Mexico did not want to give it up. They could no longer defend themselves. I cannot state my opinion in regards to the Mexicans that lived there and rejoiced in becoming U.S. citizens, because I have not read that. However, I was referring to Mexico not wanting to give up those states.

david-475776- Sorry David but you are WRONG. Your quote is outdated.

Obama Deporting More Illegal Immigrants Than Bush
July 26, 2010 01:49 PM EDT
views: 107 | comments: 4

The struggle over immigration has led many people to believe that President Obama has a rather lax take on immigration. And although the Federal Government may not be doing all they can to help the problem, Obama's administration has deported more illegals than his predecessor, and he is harder on businesses that hire illegal immigrants.

The Washington Post reports that Immigration and Customs Enforcement estimates that Obama will deport 400,000 illegal immigrants this fiscal year. That's 10% more than Bush did in 2008, and 25% more than 2007.

The Washington Post also reports that Obama's administration has more than quadrupled the number of audits into businesses that hire illegal immigrants.

But many people still believe that Obama isn't doing enough. One of the criticisms to how Obama enforces the immigration laws is that he concentrates on repeat border crosses and felons, and tends to leave people who are caring for children alone. This creates "select amnesty," according to Republican Congressman Hal Rogers.

And although it does create a certain safe haven for illegals who aren't doing anything illegal besides being illegal, it seems to be the best option right now. Immigration is a complex problem, but Obama is doing more than most think to fix the problem.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978394718

David-I was talking about the children that are left without their mother or father. I also was referring to immigrants that married a U.S. citizen, not those that were previously married in their home country.

The adjective indigenous has the common meaning of "from" or "of the original origin". Therefore, in a purely adjectival sense any given people, ethnic group or community may be described as being indigenous in reference to some particular region or location.^[4]

Key to a contemporary understanding of "indigenousness" is the political role a cultural group plays, for all other criteria usually taken to denote indigenous groups (territory, race, history, subsistence lifestyle, etc.) can, to a greater or lesser extent, also be applied to majority cultures.^[5] Therefore, the distinction applied to indigenous groups can be formulated as "a politically underprivileged group, who share a similar... identity different to the nation in power",^[4] and who share territorial rights to a particular area governed by a colonial power. However, the specific term indigenous peoples has a more restrictive interpretation when it used in the more formalized, legalistic, and academic sense, associated with the collective rights of human populations.^[4] In these contexts, the term is used to denote particular peoples and groups around the world who, as well as being native to or associated with some given territory,^[5] meet certain other criteria (such as having reached a social and technological plateau thousands of years ago).

Wrong. First there were the indigenous people. Then came the Spanish Conquistadors who overtook the country. They were there first.

Wrong most Mexicans are descendants of the original Spanish Conquistadors, that massacred the Incas, Aztecs, etc.

Honest Jo-Please stop trying to imply that I am part of La Raza or whatever other movement you can think of at the moment. I am far from it. I am trying to fight for the rights of my family and for the families that I work with and for other people that are affected by the current immigration laws. I want my children to have a bright future. I want the children I work with to not live in fear and to be able to feel safe so that they can dream and believe that anything is possible. I care deeply about the children that I work with. So with that being said I am tired of you trying to say that I am involved in some sort of radical movement. If you knew me you would know that is far from the truth.

Michelle 16, in the years when U.S. acquired what is now the southwest, was a time when Mexico didn't know how to run their own country. Their leaders did not believe in democracy and treated their own people worse than enemies of war. Read about all the rape and pillage the mexican government did in the states of Chihuahua, texas, new mexico and other regions of mexico in that period. Like most people I would have rather been born an american than a mexican in the southwest during that time. Mexico is lucky the U.S. offered any payment, they could have just taken it from them as spoils of war, did you think about that? The americans could have annexed the whole country since they made it to the capitol but they let Mexico retain it's sovereignty (right to abuse it's own civilians).

The only changes I see that need to be made is for the federal government to start enforcing its own laws. If you want to come to this country, do so legally. I have relatives that came here from latin america and they ALL did it legally. What gives your friends or the other illegals the priviledge of not following the law? NOBODY on here is against legal immigration. It should be the law (and enforced everywhere) that if you're here illegally, you shouldn't have permission to work and not be able of receiving any entitlements from the government: Section 8 housing, schooling for their family, food stamps, acess to free healthcare and other social services that american citizens ARE NOT entitled to. It's only fair since most illegals do not contribute to the system (through taxes) yet are free to take from it. If you have extra money and space to support them, be my guest. I won't allow my tax dollars to go help people who simply crossed the border and now demand everything. This is an insult to the people I know that came here legally and didn't get any freebies from the U.S. government.

what_the_81- As I said before, you are entitled to your own opinion, as I am to mine.

But I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly... What you are saying is that they shouldn't receive free education. What about the children born here to illegals? They are born citizens, but their parents are not. So should they not receive an education? Also, what you are saying is that these children should be forced to starve, or bleed to death if there is an accident and they can't afford healthcare? Let me give you an example. There is a parent at my school who was brought to the States by her soon to be ex-husband. The ex beat her and so she left him. She is not receiving any child support for their 5 children (students at my school). So anyway since she is a victim of domestic violence, she can become a resident and she is in the process of doing that. Until that goes through, she is still considered illegal and her children are as well. In the meantime though, should this family be forced to starve or not have a place to live? They finally just got out of the homeless shelter and are receiving help. The mother in this situation is trying to do the right thing. Those children are all so sweet and loving and they are just caught in the middle. I believe a few of the children were born here, thus allowing the mother to receive food stamps.

However, when I was in Mexico, a doctor consultation was 30 pesos (approximately $2.40). If our healthcare was more affordable, they would pay for it. And no, I wasn't there like 10 years ago. I just returned from there 5 days ago and saw the sign for the medical consultation. My family doctor charges me $78 for a consultation. I am not aware of illegals receiving food stamps. Last I knew they need a soc. sec. # to receive those benefits. They are only eligible here for emergency Medicaid for the children not born here. That does not cover doctor visits.

Michelle 16

I am saying that our immigration laws need to be reformed so that those who want to be here actually have a chance to be here. (3.71)

Wow, so you're not really asking for reform, you're asking for the whole immigration process to be eliminated outright, if we just let people enter who simply want to. So you're telling me we should open the doors to anyone who simply wants to be here? Should the U.S. tell the whole world that if anyone wants to come here that they are welcome to enter? Furthermore, that means you have no problem with all of a sudden millions (hundreds of million) of people flooding into our borders simply because they want to? People who think like you have more issues than I can even begin to comprehend. I can't respond to that.

Michelle 16, you can pretend to ignore my post (3.74) but I can follow you going off topic. How did your friend get here? Did she follow the legal process to enter this country? You said you didn't know anybody receiving food stamps but then said she was. Yes, there are a lot of people who will be victims of this bill and similar ones like it such as children but it's not their fault. It's the fault of the parents who think that they are entitled to breaking the rules simply crossing over here. They (parents) should be ashamed for what they put their kids through. I know people who are illegal and know that their kids are here with them illegally, it will suck if they get deported and I will miss them but that's part of life, there are winners and losers. You can't help everybody, you also have to realize that there are rules that people have to follow and if they don't follow them, there should be consequences. Life sucks and is hard, who said it was easy?...

what_the_81 -In what way am I ignoring your post?

She is not my friend. I said she is a parent of students where I work. She entered the country illegally with her husband. Since she is a victim of domestic violence she qualifies for help in becoming legal. When did I say that I don't know anyone receiving food stamps? I said I was not aware that they were eligible to receive them, and then I continued that I am assuming that some of her younger children were born here and I believe that is how that particular person is receiving them!

And no, I am not saying that ANYONE should be welcome. I am saying that there should be a reform, a change, in our current laws. This would enable so many families that are torn apart a chance to become legal and be here the right way. It is so difficult for them to even get a passport to come here! So I should be ashamed for falling in love with a Mexican and having children with him if he were illegal and then be deported?

Why is it so difficult for people from Central America to come here, however, if you are from Europe, Canada, etc. the requirements for receiving permission to come here are different? Please do not tell me they are not, because they are. My friend from Romania had no trouble receiving his visa and passport to come here, nor did my friend from Spain, Germany, or the Netherlands. However, ask someone from Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Republica Dominicana, etc. what they have to go through, and you will find how much more difficult it is.

Michelle 16, if she entered the country illegally with her husband, she shouldn't be entitled to any government support. I say again, she should not be entitled to any government support. So many citizens are just as bad as her if not worse off and they are ignored by the government. Why should the government care for her or others like her over their own citizens? Go to mexico illegally and see what they will do for you under similar circumstances as her. If the american government had the resources to also care for illegals then that's debateable, but we shouldn't put illegal aliens' needs over their own citizens.

You still didn't specify what change there should be to our immigration policy, other than saying that those that want to be here should have no problem getting here, which is ridiculous. Getting a visa has nothing to do with what part of the world you're from. It should have everything to do with what your occupation is and what you can contribute to the country you plan on emigrating to. That's how it is everywhere and that's how it should be here too, simply sneaking over the border doesn't count, sorry. The relatives I have from latin america were able to emigrate here because they are in the medical field, those that aren't are still over there. The government shouldn't let people in if they don't serve any value.

As far as you falling in love with an illegal mexican, congratulations, with your help he can be a citizen. For those that aren't that lucky, too bad for them. Like I said, there are winners and there are losers. Do you expect this country to have an open door policy where we simply let people come rhrough the border? The point I'm trying to make is you can't run a country and let personal matters get to you. Do you expect this country to feel sorry for everybody? Do you think the american people should approve letting our resources be used to help everybody? The U.S. has to stick to it's guns and enforce the immigration policy they already have in place. We need to focus on surviving and prospering as a country otherwise we'll end up a poor county if we continue the way we are. Imagine the U.S. on a lifeboat after a ship sank, there's only so many people we can bring un board until the lifeboat we are on capsizes, people that don't have a grip on reality like you would try to bring everyone on board until the boat capsizes. But you can't do that, you can let people in, selectively, and unfortunately, people will have to drown.

You're living in a dream world if you expect the U.S. to take anyone that wants to come here and then for all of us to get together and sing kumbaya.

I love (and I'm being sarcastic here just to be clear) I LOVE how people here say that only US citizens are "American". Do you not realize that ANYONE WHO LIVES IN NORTH OR SOUTH AMERICA IS AMERICAN. Just thought I'd open everyone's eyes.

My story is simple: I moved to Alabama never knowing anyone who was of Hispanic decent and was shocked to find Latino men lined along the side of the street, what I found out later, looking for work. They stood out there rain or shine and even offered to help us unload our truck, unfortunately we had just unloaded it. This and a newspaper article sparked my interest and I started researching WHY and, especially WHY ALABAMA when it is so well known for its racist people. I knew these people were in for a struggle just by living here so I knew there had to be a reason.

They came here, just like our ancestors did, hoping for "The American Dream".

Just so you know, I eventually married a Mexican. I have only had ONE family member, who is a distant cousin, complain. The rest of my family has embraced him and love him for who he is. My cousin's complaint was that Latinos should come here "like my family did: legally." For a little more insight my family is entirely German, by decent. So I researched around the time period my family came here and what the laws were then. The only way to be denied entrance to the US then was if you were sick or were a convicted felon. Basically, and I'll spell it out so everyone here can understand, ALMOST EVERYONE WAS ALLOWED IN.

It's funny I was watching CNN today and John McCain was on trying to defend the bill SB1070. His biggest defense was that 17% of the 500,000 have been convicted of a crime. We should be taking closer looks at ourselves or some of the rest of the nation's minorities if this is his strongest defense.

Most of the people who are here illegally DON'T WANT TO BE HERE. If they could work here and be able to go back home, they would. Who would WANT to be separated from everything they know and everyone they love? All because they cannot make enough money to provide for them in their own country. The only reason my husband is still here is because of me (and I'm sure a few of you will have choice remarks about that). If it weren't for me he would have left yrs ago. He hates this country, our politics, our ignorant, racist, bigoted people. And honestly: I DON'T BLAME HIM.

Everyone deserves the right to be able to provide for their families. And if you want to claim that they're "stealing American jobs". They have been doing these jobs FOR DECADES because no US citizen wants to dirty their hands doing menial work. Argue all you want but I doubt any one of you is about to go slave away in a field, clean your own hotel room, cook your own food at the restaurant you eat at and then clean the table afterwords, pave our highways, build our homes, cut your own and your business' lawn....I could go on for a while. Point Blank: we "Americans" have gotten lazy.

Oh, and for you who think that the answer is to "send them all home", it would destroy our economy. It would be like shutting down New York City AND Chicago. Over 11 million people. Imagine the resources it would consume to do so! They are a vital part of our economy!

I agree that if they're convicted felons they shouldn't be here, or they should at least be in jail, but give the rest a chance to become a citizen. Imagine the influx of tax dollars of those who don't pay! Right now this issue is crippling our country! Employers abuse these people because they know they can get away with it. Countless crimes are committed against Latinos because most are too scared to report it.

How many of you would move to another country, with a language that you couldn't speak, just to provide for your family? Could YOU isolate yourself from everything/everyone you know and love and make that kind of sacrifice?

what_the_81- No, I am suggesting for a better solution. I am suggesting the laws be changed/modified. 10 years ago if you came here illegally and you married a U.S. citizen, you only had to pay like a $2,000 fine (or less) and your immigration fees. Once your paperwork and physical was complete, you were granted residency. Now they deport you (I've heard anywhere from 6 months to 2 years, and in some cases up to 10.) If these people are trying to be here legally, why separate them from their children? There has to be a better solution is all I am trying to say.

Coffeegirl,

The only way to be denied entrance to the US then was if you were sick or were a convicted felon. Basically, and I'll spell it out so everyone here can understand, ALMOST EVERYONE WAS ALLOWED IN.

Your family must have emmigrated prior to the 1890's as the US has had a quota system in force since then.

As far as "doing work others will not", I do not believe that is true anymore as we have more than 20 million real citizens out of work.

and do you think that a single one of them has even considered most of the jobs I listed above to be an option? would you?

Give you an example, there are a lot of Hispanics working in construction. Most people don't want to slave away all day in the sun and I give kudos to those that can however, Latinos work harder, faster and cheaper than most Americans are willing to be paid to do the same task. They make the US citizens look bad. So I wonder, is that what it's REALLY about? Because they can do these jobs better than we can? and for less money.

And as far as my family is concerned, here is were I dug up a lot of my information.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back1405.html

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/snpim1.htm

Again we need a real, comprehensive solution to the topic because "sending them home" is not an option unless you want our economy to really fail.

coffeegirl....I think you are wrong. There was a time when construction jobs made it possible for many to pay for College. There was a time when waiting on tables or working in a restaurant kitchen made it possible for people to pay for college. There was a time when neighborhood kids would cut grass and do gardening work to make extra money.

As a job, my 10 year olds scoop poop in neighbor yards so they can make money. It is an honest and reasonable job for a 10 year old.

Sending them home will not kill our economy. Arizona proved that they will self-deport. Make being illegal in America a Felony and they will not stay. Take away all public subsidy and they will not stay.

coffeegirl... here is just one difference from your own link:

Government inspectors asked a list of twenty-nine probing questions, such as: Have you money, relatives or a job in the United States? Are you a polygamist? An anarchist? Next, the doctors and nurses poked and prodded them, looking for signs of disease or debilitating handicaps. Usually immigrants were only detained 3 or 4 hours, and then free to leave. If they did not receive stamps of approval, and many did not because they were deemed criminals, strikebreakers, anarchists or carriers of disease, they were sent back to their place of origin at the expense of the shipping line.

It is basic to what is and is not "illegal".

coffeegirl....I think you are wrong. There was a time when construction jobs made it possible for many to pay for College. There was a time when waiting on tables or working in a restaurant kitchen made it possible for people to pay for college. There was a time when neighborhood kids would cut grass and do gardening work to make extra money.

This is absolutely true! I worked as a farm hand during summers when I was 14 and 15, built houses, garages, and general construction during summers from 16 until my senior year in college. Cut grass and did all kinds of yard work by the time I was 12. Mostly every kid in my high school worked at these jobs that are now being given to "illegals" and I will challenge anyone as to their productivity that pits a late teen early twenties full size man working in team against an illegal immigrant that has no intent except to circumvent the system. Not that "latinos" are lazy, but neither are they the most motivated. Within one hour I could gather enough out of work real citizens, who are currently out of work(saying it again for emphasis), to take over any construction crew in the country and within in a week I can guarantee they will do better work. It is just plain wrong not to take care of our citizens first, it is our tax dollars that push the construction business, why shouldn't our citizens get the work?

Rob then that is an issue with the contractors that are hiring the illegals and they should be punished. It's not just the illegals fault. What we are asking for is a reform so that they have the chance to be here legally. We are not denying that they did wrong by entering the country illegally. We are just saying that the law needs some changing. People are so afraid of terrorists after 9/11. Those people didn't come in through Mexico. They came in through Canada. So instead of worrying so much only about the Mexican border, maybe we should look at Canada's as well! (Not to say that Canada is not a beautiful country. I have been there 7 times and thoroughly enjoy it.)

Rob, our citizens would get the work if they would apply for the job! The company my husband works for always gives more hours to the us citizens FIRST and then to the Latinos, and though it hurts us, I completely understand but here is where the comparison drops. My husband has befriended many of the people he works with/for because of how hard he works and how well he gets his job done. When other Latinos are sitting at home on the slower days, he's still working with the rest of the US citizens in his company. If someone truly wants/needs the money all they have to do is TRY and really show that they're willing to work for the job. People who work hard and get their jobs done well will always be rewarded. I have never gone a day when I have been unemployed. I know in some circumstances this is not always the case with businesses closing and the economy still being slow. It has been ingrained in me since I was a child that you go where the money is. If you can't find work in your hometown...LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE. I moved 350 miles away from my home for a job to a place where I knew no one! It's tough but if that's what you have to do to survive, then so be it. It is the same way with Latino immigrants, they are simply going where the money is. It's called supply and demand. US companies needed workers and Latinos have supplied the labor to get the job done.
And as far as sending them home not destroying our economy you need to also think about the fact that these people drive cars, rent apartments/homes, by groceries, clothes, furniture,a lot of these people have taxes withdrawn from their paychecks not to mention the taxes they pay when they buy any product and so on.
So okay, send them home to open the job market, but then you have issues because US citizens want to be paid more to do the same job. Then you cause inflation. Cost for homes, hotel rooms, lawn care, and even food prices go up because most people wouldn't even think about working a field for the mere pittance Latinos are paid for doing the job. And that is just the beginning. These people have been doing these jobs for a very long time. And they would come here legally if it were a feasible option but there are ridiculous amounts of red tape not to mention the expense. Family members cannot even visit the us to see their family.

txmom32- It has always been a felony. The reason they're leaving is because of the racial profiling and the violence that is ensuing because of it. Are we Nazi Germany that we only want white people to live in this country? Because the similarities are disturbing. And, being German, it just sickens me more.to ROB- my mother's family came here in the early 1900's but my father's was more recent, during the time when we only allowed white Europeans into the country.

I am not here to start a @!$%#-fest I am merely trying to open some eyes. I understand both sides of the situation. But if everyone would actually take the time to figure out the answer to the question WHY? you would understand a hell of a lot more. I took the time to do so and know many others who have and I promise you not a single one of them disagrees with me.

Our country spends so much time in wars on the other side of the world that if they would pay a little more attention to our neighbors this situation might have been avoided.

Coffeegirl-I am with you. I understand both sides of the situation as well. Unfortunately though, many people only see this in black and white and say that illegal is illegal and screw them all. However, they don't know personally what our families and others struggle with and fail to see things in gray as well.

Michelle and coffeegirl...first off, it is a black and white issue, we do not live in France or other countries that view law under Napoleanic views. You either follow the law or you are a criminal, no buts, no because's, or other sympathetic mumbo-jumbo. Second, there is precedence that when the "illegals" are deported, that out of work citizens do take their place, irrelevant as to the job. That precedence was established under the "Mexican Repatriation Program" during the 1930's:

The Mexican Repatriation was an voluntary and involuntary migration mainly taking place between 1929 and 1937, when an estimated 400-500,000 Mexicans left the US due to high unemployment, fear of deportation, encouragement by welfare agencies and the Mexican government. During the Great Depression , Mexicans and Mexican Americans were viewed as usurpers of American jobs and a burden on social services such as relief aid. The Immigration and Naturalization Service ....targeted Mexicans because of "the proximity of the Mexican border, the physical distinctiveness of mestizos, and easily identifiable barrios."

This is part of the reason that the unemployment had leveled off by 1933, especially beneficial to the "Grapes of Wrath" people displaced by the loss of their farms and jobs due to the drought in Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and Texas but also quite a few urban dwellers that transitioned from factory workers to service workers (my Great Uncle went from being a machinist to a grave digger, yep, with a shovel). It might be unfortunate for the illegals, but that is the risk they take to come here ILEGALLY.

coffeegirl....from your own link again, www.cis.org:

Welfare Use.

As the Census Bureau does in its publications, we report welfare use based on whether the head of household is immigrant or native.³³ With regard to immigrant households, this means we are reporting welfare use for immigrants and their U.S.-born children who live with them and comparing them to natives and their children. Table 12 shows the percentage of immigrant‑ and native‑headed households in which at least one member of the household receives public assistance (including Temporary Assistance to Needy Families and state administered general assistance programs); Supplemental Security Income (SSI), which is for low-income elderly and disabled persons; Food Stamps; Medicaid (health insurance for those with low incomes); live in subsidized or government-owned housing, or use the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) nutrition
program.

Welfare Use. As the Census Bureau does in its publications, we report welfare use based on whether the head of household is immigrant or native.³³ With regard to immigrant households, this means we are reporting welfare use for immigrants and their U.S.-born children who live with them and comparing them to natives and their children. Table 12 shows the percentage of immigrant‑ and native‑headed households in which at least one member of the household receives public assistance (including Temporary Assistance to Needy Families and state administered general assistance programs); Supplemental Security Income (SSI), which is for low-income elderly and disabled persons; Food Stamps; Medicaid (health insurance for those with low incomes); live in subsidized or government-owned housing, or use the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) nutrition
program.

It states that over 28% of our Welfare assistance programs go to illegal immigrants and their families...why should I have to pay for illegals?

Coffeegirl-sometimes it's hard to realize that there comes a point when we have to give up and realize that we cannot make a difference in one person's life. We tried to open up eyes on here and show people that life is not in black and white as some people believe. There are shades of gray behind every door. Like a good friend of mine once told me in regards to this issue, don't cast your pearls before swine. Some people just DON'T get it.

txmom32- It has always been a felony. The reason they're leaving is because of the racial profiling and the violence that is ensuing because of it. Are we Nazi Germany that we only want white people to live in this country? Because the similarities are disturbing. And, being German, it just sickens me more.to ROB- my mother's family came here in the early 1900's but my father's was more recent, during the time when we only allowed white Europeans into the country.

coffee girl....Simply being in this country in an undocumented status is a misdemeanor. representing yourself as another person or using the identity or SS of another person is a Felony. So to enact a raid on a business to find that the employees have used ID of a citizen and not arresting the guilty is allowing these felons to walk free among us and perpetuate their criminal behavior.

If ICE is going to raid a business to get to the corrupt businessman they in turn should arrest the criminals that will offer up stolen or purchased ID.

The reason they are leaving is because they are criminals running from the law and know they are wrong.

Your racism is astounding. Comparatively our current immigration quotas are skewed in favor of countries that are not European or historically, white countries.

If you are going to speak on a subject it should be from a point of fact not emotion.

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/cohn.immigration.us

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/70xx/doc7051/02-28-Immigration.pdf

the whole paper is actually informative and should be required reading for illegals in this country as many would not actually "have" to be illegal under our laws.

Table 4 on page page 22 explains contemporary trends. It absolute shows the preference is toward "non-white" immigrants.

Table 7 Administrative Reasons for Formal Removal is also very interesting.

Now please feel free to do a bit of discovery on your own.

Michelle 16, (3.82) I still don't think you have any clue what you're talking about concerning the issues about marrying an illegal. It costs roughly $1,500-$1,900 if the person came here on a visitors visa. After that the alien can apply for a social security card once the application gets accepted. Once you go through the interview and get your temporary residency you have to remain married for 2 years to get permanent residency. After that life is good.

If a person comes here illegally, why should it be so easy to marry someone and then get residency? it shouldn't be easier than if that person had at least a visitors visa or one that didn't expire yet for that matter. If the person ends up being deported, oh well, that should teach them to enter the country LEGALLY next time. People should understand it's easier to follow the rules. It will suck for the kids to have to go through with an illegal parent being deported but if you're going to cross into a country illegally, better be prepared to face consequences.

The only racist part of this law was your comment. This is a good law.

The law wasnt against Mexican born legal US residents. Why dont you just say what it really is, Mike, a law against illegals flooding into the country.

Mike-

Give it up already. It doesn't matter what country of origin an illegal immigrant comes from, they are illegal and the situation must be addressed. It doesn't matter if it's Juan from Mexico, Ahmed from Pakistan, Greg from Australia or Steve from Canada...illegal is illegal. Come through the front door.

well mike, i like to see where it (the law on immigration period), says anything about latino, or mexican decent? isnt in there nor will it ever be, reason being, it goes for EVERYONE HERE ILLEGALLY not just mexicans. its only racist because 99.9% of the illgals in our country atm, are mexicans. That problem arose because out gov wanted to obtain votes, rather than enforce laws. time for kissing a$$ is about over for the illgals in our country, as jobs becaome less, and less, time to start taking care of our own, not someone who is not to be here to begin with, taking that work from one of our own, that being an American, not a fence jumper.

How is defending our country against illegal immigrants a racist law? NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD would let another country (including mexico) trounce its sovereignty and put its people at risk from foreign criminals and let illegal foreigners steal the jobs that Americans that need. Our children are now displaced from the job market because of thinking like MIKE-1981904. We need the federal government to be accountable in this and start shipping these interlopers out of our country and get our jobs back. I want the Federal laws enforced and NO immigration reform which is amnesty in progressive speak.

I don't like race baiting and the comment #4 above is exactly that.

you are full of it

Mike,

Get with the program. Illegals don't get a free pass regardless of their race because, "it undermines the basic notions of fairness" for people who play by the rules.

I am TOTALLY perplexed by the concept that someone of spanish ancestry "aka hispanic" is a different race than I am. I am decended from Italian ancestry with my paternal side decended from French ancestry, with only God knows what ancestry before the French and Italian. Last I checked, England, Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, Germany, the Netherlands, Israel Russia, Persia (aka Iran), India etc and most of the european and mid-eastern people decended from the same causasian roots. All decendents of the people of the Caucus Mountains.

In fact, most of the Royal Families of these countries had special permission from the Vatican (and it's precursor before it was officially the Vatican) to marry since most were marrying relatives who were within 7 familial steps apart , usually only 1 or 2 (kissing cousins), to keep the royal bloodlines "pure".

In fact, Henry VIII's 1st wife was Catherine, from Spain's monarchy, mother to Mary, Queen of Scots, who was famous for her political tug of war with 1/2 sis Elizabeth I. I do believe Catherine was Henry's 2nd cousin.

Lets stop classifying ethnicticity with race --- it does a great disservive to those who truly have suffered because of racial discrimination.

Mike-You're correct, it is a racist law against Mexicans....but not against Mexican-Americans. It's a racist law against Canadians, but not Canadian-Americans. It's a racist law against Africans, but not African-Americans. Do you get it yet??? Or should I continue?

I really am starting to believe those who keep saying this is a racist issue are pretty racist themselves. Because it's clear they only think of one group of people in the Illegal discussion. If you visit other states and other big cities you will see that there are OTHER groups coming here illegally. I love how a few local buisnesses use that as a front for the illegal transportation within my town. And it's not "mexicans". And it' sure is a small town, less than 15,000.

Get a grip Mike, please.

Mike,

It appears that you are in the minority on this discussion. Stop and think as to why you are so. If you allow someone into your personal home, that's legal. But, if someone just walks into your home, opens your fridge - eats your food - uses the medicine in your medicine cabinet that you paid for - takes your social security number - uses your address for their own purpose - enjoys your backyard pool - My guess, Mike, is that you wold throw them out of your home or call the police to remove them from your home. Or would you just let them stay in your home uninvited? Think about that, Mike

Another dumbazz who doesn't understand the law or have any respect for it!!!!

Mike - Stop using the word racist. It no longer carries any weight due to over use and/or abuse of its original intended meaning.

Mike,

Mexican is a nationality. Not a race. Mexican refers to the citizens of Mexico. If you say that all mexicans are hispanic, then it is you who is doing the racial profiling. This law came about to stem the tide of passive agressive, foreign, invaders who are destroying this country from the inside. They prey on the sympathies of out-of-touch people who crave warm fuzzy feeling.

Once more in case you don't get it. MEXICAN IS A NATIONALITY!! IT IS NOT A RACE!!

I believe any alien on US soil should be either a visitor on vacation, a student, on a work visa for short term professional employment (any long term employment should go to the American professionals) and legal alien residents whether they are becoming naturalized citizens or not.

Anyone else on US soil is trespassing or invading. They are here illegally. They are breaking the law by being here. That is why they are called "illegal aliens". They are NOT illegal immigrants. Immigrants are those people who are legal alien residents in the process of becoming naturalized as an American citizen. Not all legal aliens want citizenship, hence they are legal alien residents.

Mike-This kind of thinking tells me that you have not exceeded a primary education.Any country without ENFORCED LAWS is nothing more than a gang and has no social value at all.Laws are what controls socities thinking and actions.If you enforce laws indiscriminantly you end up like Mexico.If that is what you want,then why not just move south?

How many of you are going to work in the farms, restaurants, factories etc after the government finished with the "illegal" Mexicans? or maybe you guys are going to go back to slavery bringing slaves from Africa to do the jobs that "blonds blue eyed" wont do?. Be careful what you wish for.

Why is someone collapsing Mikes thread...He is still in America where people have the right to make even stupid remarks.

Well Walt, those hundreds of High school students that can't get jobs because of illegals working in kitchens for one. Funny you bring up African slavery, because in a sense that is what you are accepting the illegal immigrants as doing-working for wages much lower than minimum.

txmom-maybe they found out he was illegal and decided that he shouldn't be allowed the same rights of free speech as those here legally. lol.

Mike,

Arizona immigration law has nothing to do with race, it has something to do with Illegal immigants, wether, your Mexican, Canadian, Asian or European decent. If anyone come here, they should have proper documents. It so happen that illegal Mexicans, outnumber other ethnic group, probably thousands to 1, so INS may hold a lot more illegal Mexicans that other groups.

I myself is an Asian-Canadian citizen, I have proper documentation and legal resident of US.

Countries in Europe, Asia, middle-east and even your neighbor Canada, law enforcers are sometimes checking immigration documents (Canadian citizenship card), why the US law enforcer cannot? And illegal immigration in Canada is not even a problem.

I support the Arizona immigration law and it should be federalized.

Dan are you kidding illegal would just amplify his voice in the United States of Obama.

walt-2091887 - How many of you are going to work in the farms, restaurants, factories etc after the government finished with the "illegal" Mexicans?

Many of those jobs were taken away from the children of Legal US Citizens, US Citizen High School Students, US Citizen High School Graduates, desperate US Citizen College Students, etc..

And now the Illegal Aliens are taking away the US Construction Labor Union jobs from US Citizens.

As well as the Illegal Aliens collecting Public Assistance to lessen the effect on their Net Pay. And Cash for Work Only as Tax Evasion, no employer paperwork (no deductions, more money).

Illegal is illegal. Fair enough. But the ultimate decision of who or what is illegal will always rest with a judge.

So, if for example, you're given a ticket for making an illegal U-turn the police officer cannot detain you for any amount of time. Rather, you're given a ticket recording your "violation" but, more importantly, you're given the chance to take your case to court and argue your case in front of a judge.

The problem with the AZ anti-immigrant law is that it gives local law enforcement to, first, decide who's "illegal" in the country and, two, to hold these "illegals" in jail until a judge can hear their case.

In other words, the fact that someone is arrested is to be used against them in a court of law. So, if immigration law calls for anyone arrested for any offense to be deported, which is the case, then those that were arrested just because a police officer suspected them to be "illegals" can be deported even if these "illegals" are going through a complex procedure to become legal residents or citizens of the US.

Get it? If there's a warrant for an arrest then, fine, arrest the suspect. But if there isn't a warrant and you've committed a violation the law has decided is not worthy of an arrest, then no police officer in the US should have the right to hold you in detention.

This is why the AZ law will not prevail in the Supreme Court regardless of how "conservative" it is.

Esam-So under your rationale, as long as a warrant is out on all illegal immigrants then you'd be completely fine with arresting and deporting every one of them correct? Well then, we'll just take their names from the database. Oh wait, they are undocumented. Well maybe we can talk to all of the illegal immigrants we know and get them to sign up that way we can do this the right way and the legal immigrants won't be harassed. Think that will work? Tell me your ideas of the best way to cleanse this country of illegal immigrants with the least amount of inconvenience to the latin community, and the least amount of cost. And I do mean cleanse, and not just accept them into society. This Gustapo comparison holds no merit-when found guilty you are not being sent to death camps, you're being sent to your home. Legal citizens have a choice to not be held by the police-carry identification. This county thousands of times have made decisions for the greater good of the it's citizens. They haven't all been ethical or just. In each decision there is a benefit and a drawback. Since 9/11 I have been stopped by border patrol every time I visit my family in NH. This slows my travel time, but I accept it as a benefit for my safety. Just as I accept inspection into my luggage when I fly.

drill...the current LEGAL immigration policies, racist in that allow a disproportionate number of Hispanics into the country, is going to cause a party all right, but not a tea party.

This kind of party: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM9uH4XgOmI

This has NOTHING to do with race, it has to do with being illegally in the USA. The laws dealing with illegal aliens do NOT specify ethnic/cultural background, nationality, race, sex or sexuality of the "trespasser", it has to do with not being here LEGALLY, the right way and enforcing our country's security!

If most people can be forced, by law, by our federal government, for homeland security, to be subjected to "body scanners" which reveals the NAKED, HUMAN body just to go on a family vacation, off to college, a business trip, a wedding or funeral in another state, or any other reason a person would fly somewhere, how the hell is providing an ID when asked by officials MORE of a civil rights violation to ANYONE for ANY REASON!!!!

I believe any alien on US soil should be either a visitor on vacation, a student, on a work visa for short term professional employment (any long term employment should go to the American professionals) and legal alien residents whether they are becoming naturalized citizens or not.

Anyone else on US soil is trespassing or invading. They are here illegally. They are breaking the law by being here. That is why they are called "illegal aliens". They are NOT illegal immigrants. Immigrants are those people who are legal alien residents in the process of becoming naturalized as an American citizen. Not all legal aliens want citizenship, hence they are legal alien residents.

and

I am TOTALLY perplexed by the concept that someone of spanish ancestry "aka hispanic" is a different race than I am. I am decended from Italian ancestry with my paternal side decended from French ancestry, with only God knows what ancestry before the French and Italian. Last I checked, England, Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, Germany, the Netherlands, Israel Russia, Persia (aka Iran), India etc and most of the european and mid-eastern people decended from the same causasian roots. All decendents of the people of the Caucus Mountains.

In fact, most of the Royal Families of these countries had special permission from the Vatican (and it's precursor before it was officially the Vatican) to marry since most were marrying relatives who were within 7 familial steps apart , usually only 1 or 2 (kissing cousins), to keep the royal bloodlines "pure".

In fact, Henry VIII's 1st wife was Catherine, from Spain's monarchy, mother to Mary, Queen of Scots, who was famous for her political tug of war with 1/2 sis Elizabeth I. I do believe Catherine was Henry's 2nd cousin.

Lets stop confusing ethnicticity/culture with race --- it does a great disservive to those who truly have suffered because of racial discrimination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic : Hispanic (Spanish: hispano, hispánico) is a term that originally denoted a relationship to the ancient Hispania (geographically coinciding with the Iberian Peninsula). During the modern era, it sometimes takes on a more limited meaning, relating to the contemporary nation of Spain.Still more recently, primarily in the United States, the term has also (or alternatively) been used to denote the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by the Spanish Empire, usually with a majority of the population speaking the Spanish language.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hispanic : His·pan·ic

(h-spnk)

adj. 1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America. 2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

n. 1. A Spanish-speaking person.2. A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent.

I, personally, would prefer to show valid identification than be visually strip searched!!! I feel that strip searching me because I want to fly is unconstitutional search and seizure (images of my body).

lets round up all white people and send them back to europe. After all you guys are illigal too or did you think different? just because the killing of indians by your forfathers was so long ago doesn't mean it's been forgotten. How would that make you feel?

that would mean most "hispanics" must go back too nonnahs, since they too are of european "white" blood - Spanish.

The Pope at the time, in an attempt to stop the warring between England and Spain, divided the New World up between them for colonization. Spain got all New Lands in the Americas below the equator, England got all New Lands in the Americas above the equator.

Damn, I just realized, most are catholics in Mexico and they defy a papal ruling. I do not believe that papal ruling during the 1600s were ever amended.

Bye to all and have a nice trip. What goes around comes around. Karma

Our ancestors committed atrocities against American Indians that you and I took no part in and never condoned, we should allow illegal immigration from Mexico and not take any action to prevent it.

Perfect liberal anti-logic.

Illegal is illegal. Fair enough. But the ultimate decision of who or what is illegal will always rest with a judge.

So, if for example, you're given a ticket for making an illegal U-turn the police officer cannot detain you for any amount of time. Rather, you're given a ticket recording your "violation" but, more importantly, you're given the chance to take your case to court and argue your case in front of a judge.

The problem with the AZ anti-immigrant law is that it gives local law enforcement to, first, decide who's "illegal" in the country and, two, to hold these "illegals" in jail until a judge can hear their case.

In other words, the fact that someone is arrested is to be used against them in a court of law. So, if immigration law calls for anyone arrested for any offense to be deported, which is the case, then those that were arrested just because a police officer suspected them to be "illegals" can be deported even if these "illegals" are going through a complex procedure to become legal residents or citizens of the US.

Get it? If there's a warrant for an arrest then, fine, arrest the suspect. But if there isn't a warrant and you've committed a violation the law has decided is not worthy of an arrest, then no police officer in the US should have the right to hold you in detention.

This is why the AZ law will not prevail in the Supreme Court regardless of how "conservative" it is.

Your comparing a minor infraction to a fed crime and another point they do too get their day in court.

nonnahs39, you forgot to mention the native americans that travelled to the americas, they have to go back to asia because they didn't present papers when they crossed the bering strait.

But, Kim, a police officer cannot decide if you've committed a "fed crime" just because you're lacking some documents.

Again, if the police officer runs your info on his computer and there's no warrant for your arrest the police officer cannot assume you're guilt of a "fed crime" just because he's suspicious of you.

If he runs your info on a computer and you come up as not there or exsisting then THAT IS a fed crime or can be. Just like you see on the TV show COPS the crook trys to give fake info the cop runs it can't find it or does not match the law already requires the cop to arrest that person take them in until an I.D. can be made! Does not matter if they were pulled over for a broken tail light or a shooting. So what your saying is your light skinned the law applies if your not give a free pass!

Try this, too....Leave this country, and come back without papers to get back in!!!! Yeah, right like that would happen, no matter how good ones English is!

The left complains that illegal aliens must skulk around and hide in the shadows. This is because these people prefer to live that way because they certainly don't have to.

All they have to do is get a work permit which is easy. Why don't you supporters of illegal aliens work with them and help them to apply. In some areas of work there are unlimited numbers of work permits.

And fgs stop whining about profiling. It makes you sound immature and uneducated.

Bravo, Recycled. The claims of racism make a mockery of real racism. This is not an issue of racism; it is an issue of law, theft, trespassing, and a government that is not protecting its citizens from very substantial harm.

As the Federal Government is refusing to allow States to protect their own American Citizens then they should be required to have their own ICE agents at every rally that promotes Illegal Aliens.

IF the Fed wants to assume the responsibility then they need to be present where it counts. Automatic presence of ICE agents where any protest of our immigration laws are in question.

That's what ticks me off the most. It's such a typical bs type thing.

"NO YOU CAN"T DO THAT"...

"well would you please"

"NO"

"why it's hurting us if you can't we will do it, honetly we don't mind"

"NO ITS OUR JOB"

'then do it please"

"NO"

isn't that pretty much the conversation?

And I am tired of hearing "if we did our job we would be overrun with work". Well what better way to stimulate the economy and create jobs then HIRE and TRAIN more people to work for ICE and handle the work load. How stupid can these "politicians" get?

When you Hear the Folks in Washington speak of reform what they are saying is they want an amnesty bill for the illegals that are here. I have also noticed that most of the "Reform speech" is coming out of the mouths of the Dem's....They need the voter base so they want to give criminals a FREE RIDE ....... They could look towards the Jails in this country and build an even Greater Voter Base by Granting Amnesty to those fine folks to.

It is time to make being illegal in this country a FELONY.

It is time to make being illegal in this country a FELONY

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter either way if the laws aren't enforced. If it were made a felony, then we would simply have sanctuary cities for felons.

AtlasWillShrug....Eventually the Sanctuary Cities will fold when business and industry have to leave because the only pool of employment is a Felon base.

If I was illegal I would be concerned. If not, who cares.

We already carry our "papers". It is called identification (ssn cards, drivers licenses, etc) and when stopped by the police, they can already check it at will. So it is ok with you that citizens can have this enforced but not a select group of people who have broken our laws and now have the tenacity to shout about how unfair it is of we that pay the bills, to require all people in this country be able to prove you have the legal right to be here? Interesting.

We need to stop placing our Public Servants at risk...I will gladly show my ID where necessary. I already show it to some anonymous clerk at any store that I wish to write a check. What is the big deal about showing it to a person designated to protect and serve.

don..."remember when a law is passed it gives the police the right to do that to EVERYONE no matter who you are."

Obviously you are unaware that ICE and Border Patrol Agents have the right to stop anyone, anywhere, at anytime for the sole purpose of demanding proof of citizenship.

hs321

I think a lot of these people who spew out such nonsence never come back to learn anything. It amazing me that so many people think the AZ cops will be profiling and how wrong it is to demand papers, YET, as you stated above ICE and the Border Patrol agents can demand that very thing from anyone at anytime. I certianly don't see anyone afraid of that, oh ya, wait.... you got to enforce the law to make people fear and respect it.

it seems to me that if your not a latino , and your questioned by an leo and he asks for id , isn't that racial profiling?