I think your exchange is from the immortal Winston Churchill?

Also attributed to Churchill after a women beside him complained, "Mr. Churchill, you are drunk!" "Yes I am madam", says he, "and you are ugly. However, tomorrow I shall be sober."

And finally from Lady Astor: "If I were married to you, I'd put poison in your coffee." Churchill: "If I were married to you, I'd drink it."

It seems certain the old boy would be arrested for some crime against women in USA 2010.

i dont know Jim,

as it stands, there is no crime for calling someone ugly or undesirable. I never realized he was so funny and clever.

You can be sure that if Sir Winston posted a comment here it would be grammatical and well spelled. It would be biting, witty, and very much to the point.

...Never have so many posters owed so much to so few

^_^

Another from Churchill --

He attended a ceremony in Missouri where they were dedicating a bust in his honor. A woman went up to him and said, "Mr. Churchill, I traveled 100 miles today for the unveiling of your bust."

He answered, "Madam, I assure you, in that regard I would gladly return the favor."

Can you imagine, first of all, any of our politicians today having the intelligence and quick wit? And can you imagine the hysteria should one of them make such a remark?

How about the lady being blamed for "fraud" stemming from silicone???

Mike: That is exactly what I came here to say.

jr: only if the guy cares whether they're real.

OMG jr, that's the funniest thing I've read/heard all day!!!!!

BA-HAHAHAHAHA!

OMG jr, that's the funniest thing I've read/heard all day!!!!!

BA-HAHAHAHAHA!

If she/he feels violated perhaps they need to rethink the causal sex and the lies before hand. Rule #1 - People lie! (especially when sex is involved)

Great point. Why is rape only one-way in this conversation?

Stupid law.

The rape is considered one-way because it is much more difficult for a woman to have sex with an unwilling man than the other way around. Men have been "raped" at gunpoint or knife-point, but the fact that they were able to get an erection casts a bit of doubt on the question of consent.

Cinclodesfuscus, but in this scenario, it is not about force, it is simply about deception. No difficulty there, and pretty common.

Cinclodesfuscus, you are 100% wrong. Physical reaction to stimulus has no bearing on proving "consent." It's the exact same as saying a woman got pleasure, and therefore consented.

Men have been "raped" at gunpoint or knife-point, but the fact that they were able to get an erection casts a bit of doubt on the question of consent.

That's nonsense. A woman will lubricate even during rape. It's the same thing -- an involuntary physical response. Should we conclude she wanted it because her body responded to the stimuli?

Men have been "raped" at gunpoint or knife-point, but the fact that they were able to get an erection casts a bit of doubt on the question of consent.

Jr. and Sr. are not well connected. Even when a man has no want or desire, a little stimulation can get Jr. at full attention. And when it happens it's about the same thing... control. Some women have a strong need to feel desired and if you don't desire them at the wrong time, they CAN rape, especially by someone the guy may care about and has no will to defend himself against even if fully capable... sound familiar? It happens more than you think.

What if either person says they love the other person (and they don't), or they don't want to sleep with anyone else (but they do)? Maybe they even believe what their saying while they're saying it, but then they wake up the next morning without their beer goggles and change their mind. Are you allowed to change your mind about a person after you've slept with them, without it being considered rape by fraud....is there a grace period or time limit? Are you now legally bound to a monogamous relationship with this person, because you've made some sort of sexual contract? This is a dangerous road to go down....it's really a moral issue more than a legal issue and you can't force morality through the law...that never works.

Men have been decieving woman, since Eve ate the apple ,to get laid.Women can be seduced through deception or plain ole lying by the man,but it is a far cry from the crime of rape.Change the rape laws enough,and Women who lie,and decieve to get laid could be charged.

Men need to lie because women discriminate primarily on the basis of social status.

Exactly, if women weren't so picky we wouldn't have to lie...

The fact that he was MARRIED is immaterial. She thought he was something other than what he was that is why he was charged with rape by deception.

And if she called herself a virgin and actually wasn't?? Is that rape?

By this definition, yes, it is. Fraudulent obtaining...

I think the Israelis are nuts on this one. I think it's a clear case of acting out bigotry against a muslim because he had sex with a jewish woman.

Come on. It's not like jewish men haven't lied to women to get laid. (And it's not like jewish women haven't lied to men to get laid and get money.)

By this definition, yes, it is. Fraudulent obtaining...

I think the Israelis are nuts on this one. I think it's a clear case of acting out bigotry against a muslim because he had sex with a jewish woman.

Yes the Israelis are nuts and yes, it is absolutely nothing more than a case of biogtry.

Wow, talk about projecting!! The bigotry is clearly on your part. I mean, how dare the law protect a Jew from a Muslim when he was clearly in the wrong? Yeah, we've heard it all before, & in a larger context. She was looking to get married to a JEWISH man & he was not only NOT that, he wasn't even single! If it was "bigotry because a Muslim had sex with a Jew" there'd be DOZENS more cases like this - & THERE AREN'T.

Uhh...then stop having sex with men before you are married. Duh

So it's ok for a woman to be shallow and manipulative, but not a man? And there are a lot more than 1% of women who aren't looking for a partner to provide for them.

Grow up, scooter.

Mocking women?! The women in question are every bit as much to blame in this situation. They're deciding to have sex based on their idea of what they might get out of it later, not on their feelings for the man in front of them.

If a man consents to marry a woman for the sex and then she stops having sex with him, can he divorce her without opposition?

99% of women are looking for stable relationships? What fantasyland of denial are you living in? Just as many women are looking for one night stands as men are (Sex and the City wasn't hugely successful because 1% of women agreed with all the casual sex and one night stands it promoted).

As stated by others on this board, if you prosecute a man for rape for lying about his wealth, then you have to prosecute the woman for prostitution for sleeping with him based upon the amount of money he has.

Also, what about a guy looking for a woman to settle down with and have kids? If he meets a 42 year old woman (who is most likely no longer able to have children, or has a high chance of of a down syndrome baby if she does conceive) who lies about her age and says she is 35, can he have her jailed for fraud rape? Many women lie about their age, so should they all be prosecuted for rape by deception?

How about married women who have affairs on their husbands, and lied about their marital status to do so? Should they all be prosecuted for rape by deception, too?

What about a woman with children who lies about having kids, should she be prosecuted for rape by deception?

How about an unemployed woman who simply lies about having a job, do we prosecute her, too?

What about a woman who lies about the number of sexual partners she's had in her past? Her lies could put the man at risk for catching a disease. They also could simply cause him to be interested in her when he otherwise wouldn't be. Should she be prosecuted for rape by deception?

What about a woman who lies about her jailed parents, or her poverty-stricken childhood, or her educational level, or whether she likes animals, or her religious beliefs, or any other of a million things that the person she sleeps with might personally view as extremely important (and deal-breaking) information to know? Do we prosecute ALL of these women for fraud by deception?

In EVERY example I cited the women were LYING. Thus, according to you, there is zero flexibility in the law and it should be called rape by deception. If this were actually the case, then well over half of all U.S. real estate would be used solely to build prisons on, as over half the U.S. population would be in jail for rape.

Lies are a part of human nature, and have always been so since the dawn of time. We've all had to learn the hard way that the old mantra of "Let the buyer beware" is just a fact of life. Over time we refine our BS meters to sniff out the lies as best we can, and live our lives accordingly.

But if you refuse to change your mind about prosecuting guys for rape by deception, and refuse to acknowledge that women lie to sleep with men just as often as men do to sleep with women, then you simply have a bigoted mind that hates men.

there is a huge difference between saying to a women...have sex with me or I'll kill you (even though it is a lie) and...have sex with me I am a wealthy, succesful man.

Woman lie all the time..

Makeup, push up bras, dyed hair, fake nails, color contacts....not who they are...just want to look better (remember men are visual)

A man does the same when he speaks of what he does (woman want security)

People need to take responsibility. You have sex if you want once you get to know someone...how long these people knew each other...oh they don't say..so if this was a one night stand and the girl throws herself to the..you really consider it rape because the guy embelished what he does for a living? Please..the guys could say he was raped too because when he woke up on the morning, it didnt look like the same girl he picked up the night beofre!

Scooter...You are being fecitious, right? Women want a dumb slave to set them up on a pedestal. They fantasize about fashion, not you. Buy her a pointless bauble or two and tell lots of lies and you are home free. Be honest and frugal with women and you WILL be lonely. It's the Great Compromise.

Scooter-979207 .... Are YOU a freaking MORON?

You're actually supporting this notion?

You're either a vengeful broad, a poser, an idiot .... or more likely all three.

If I tell you to go f**k yourself, is that conspiracy too?

JERK!

Have you been out in the light of the real world since the Victorian Era, or are you always willing to make-stuff-up to make a fraudulent point?

You seem to fit with our hypothetical Churchill girl.

"In the morning, I will be sober, but you madam will still be ugly."

Churchill and W C Fields!

Based on that, I can call it rape whenever a woman wears a push up bra, hair extension, high heels, those spandex girdle things.

Thank you, Scooter.

scooter, I think your numbers are way off! 99%? Where that could be ideal that a woman is looking for marriage as well as the man, in reality, many (men and women) are looking just for a hook up. And why are they looking for someone to provide FOR them? Why cant they provide for the man? That is sexist.

I am not sure that random sex constitutes 'wanting a stable relationship'. If 99% of the woman want stable relationship, then what the heck are they doing in a bar looking to score a rich guy? Value system a little messed up there.

This law proposal is simply ridiculous. It is actually sad that we have removed any sense of moral decency from sex as well as any sense of personal responsibility or ownership over one's actions. Even the Boston example should be easy for the courts to settle. Although the twin brother did not encounter resistance, he in essence forced her - it wasn't as simple as he deceived her by lying about his Porsche. This is again where morals come in.

If a person thinks that a person they meet in the bar is wealthy and decides to have sex to secure a chance at getting that money, but the person doesn't have it, it is dual fraud because at that point one person is using status to obtain sex while the other person is using sex to obtain some of that status. Its also sad that we have raised the recent generations to have so little respect for themselves that they would have sex before marriage for fear that that is the only way to secure longevity.

Scooter, you are living in la la land.

Women have men beat hands down when it comes to deception.

Personally, I wish the law (government) would get the hell out of the marraige business and leave it to the churchs to sanction and oversee. That way, those that don't want anything to do with marraige, or just want to have sex for fun (and what's wrong with that.....call me a male Ho!), can do so without having to worry about being taken to the cleaners!

Considering the evolution of humans, I understand why the smaller and weaker of the sexes seeks the "best male provider" possible, and any man with a health set of gonads is ok with that, as long as a woman doesn't withhold sex, grow balls, or take everything the provider has brought to the relationship (the black widow syndrome).

You sound like just the person I'd like to meet over a cup of coffee (or a stiff martini) and tell of all my riches, all the while hoping you'll fall for it and give me some poonanny..........you know you'd love it!

Ok moondog..getting a little scary here...think you shouldn't be meeting any females for anything unless your mother gives you a special pass out of the basement...

The basement is where most men live. And most women love to bed men who come from the basement; then return home to the poor sap they sunk thier claws into for "stability and provider" purposes. :)

Scooter-979207 wrote "99% of women are looking for a stable man to be their partner and provide for them, obviously you bozo's don't understand that fact."

Women understand very well that they are able to extract favor and fortune from men by dangling only the *possibility* of sexual access. Feminine mystique = female deception. Men understand this but are slaves to their libido nonetheless.

Women understand very well that they are able to extract favor and fortune from men by dangling only the *possibility* of sexual access. Feminine mystique = female deception. Men understand this but are slaves to their libido nonetheless.

I believe this is the best statement on the matter I've ever heard.........thanks.

Love it!

Really? Neil Armstrong taught me how to fly a spaceship too! :) .......Honest, I won't get pregnant, take you to the cleaners for every penny you have & call it "child support".

LOL! :)

But in my case, Armstrong did talk to me about flying spaceships - when I was a kid. And another astronaut flew with one of my HS teachers for fun.

Will you have sex with me now?

No, the article got it right. It's a simple case of lying to a silly girl about whether he would marry her or not. He's a cad. But the israeli court is definitely biased against muslims.

That bias may have something to do with muslims trying to kill them all the time, and the religion of islam saying in the koran that it is a muslims right and sometimes obligation to lie to infidels.

Or it could be that he knew that she was Jewish and wouldn't have anything to do with someone who wasn't...

Who cares about that stupid part of the article, I am more interested in the general concept than that one specific lie to get laid.

Isnt she also to blame? Because once alone in the room, once he undresses... cant she, um "tell" that he is not Jewish?

well there's your problem...stick to picking up women instead of girls and perhaps your chances will improve...

The IndependentThinker-71113 wrote "Second, I have been hood winked by a lot of women into having sex based on a lie"

You have pointed to the wrong side of female fraud. Their fraud is dating men with whom they have no intention of having either sex at any time. The men pay and get no sex.

No, but everyone knows that their are gold-diggers out there who get excited more by a man's bank account than by their abs. If men aren't allowed to lie, women shouldn't be allowed to gold-dig.

If you want to make a new law that protects women, make one that protects men (for once).

Women are sensitive about this issue because short-term sexual access granted for a small amount of fortune is indistinguishable from prostitution.

As for laws that protect men, demand DNA paternity tests as a standard part of the birth certification process. Currently, little more than a driver's license is required, and that is only to verify the father's name. Men should have equal rights in parental certainty.

Thank you! Everyone is focusing on the “I drive a nice car” or “I make a lot of Money” lies. The writer was stretching it to ask if it could go that far. What is important are the Cases that were mentioned. Lying about being a GYN to fondle a woman, or pretending to be a persons spouse or boyfriend to have sex with them is Rape. I am going to assume that the brother was either a twin or very similar build to fool her in the dark bedroom.

MariaH....If he picks up a tranny, hopefully he will know it before he is flipped and dipped.

If you're going to get all mathematical, know your sh!t, negative + negative is still negative, (-) x (-) = +

In Slaved, you're reaching. Men and women take advantage of each other - it's not one way or the other. Please try a new argument.

Besides, Lilith was framed.....

Let it be now posted and observed from this day forth:

that a man or woman may tell untruths to each other in the interest of having relations with the other. And let it also be known that a trannie will also attempt a switcheroo on someone! All these notices are to be in double effect when alcohol and/or drugs are involved and present!

We know the real story about the Israeli woman even though it is not published. She had sex with an Arab. When she feared it would be revealed, she called rape. Either way, hell hath no fury ...

I do love the double standard you have; but then you do listen to Chris Rock.

Actually, I love that Chris Rock piece. See my comments above - basically said that if lying before sex can be considered rape, then any woman wearing a push up brad, high heels, a spandex girdle, etc, can be charged with rape (and basically, that is all women at some point).

Hey, Tired-

You'll love more than just the double standard, trust me.

ew...

Yep.

So, why doesn't a man have a say in whether a child is born? What is needed is the "male abortion." which would be a legal document in which a man can sign away his rights to a child before the 2nd trimester. Of course, that relies on a woman not concealing her pregnancy and thus excluding him from any influence.

Yes, many men walk away from a child for which they have little or no paternal certainty as any sane person would. How many women "walk away" from an unwanted fetus with an abortion?

Will you have sex with me? I'm not George Clooney!

Besides, what is it with women and George Clooney? Don't you know he's a sadist? He was photographed by a papparazzi in the Hellfire Club in Australia about 12 years ago. He beat the crap out of the papparazzo and smashed his camera. He was whipping a man in the club until the man bled on the floor, getting his jollies.

What is it with you women? GC is a lying slimeball, far worse than any of the guys you dated.

I am George Clooney.

Sleep with me.

CatChick-

You sound hot! Have you seen my watch?

mattruth.....Where is this curb?

you don't seriously expect anyone here to believe that you're an educated woman, right? if so, we should sue the university for giving you a degree.

patA,

Obviously, you have been kicked to the curb before!

patA, in mattruth's defense she did not specify how educated. My seven year old has a second grade education and he thinks he is educated. It is your fault for assuming she meant a college level education.

Not race. It's about religion. Religion isn't race, it's ideology.

But it is bias. It's bias generated from centuries of muslims slaughtering jews and raping their widows going back to mohammed who did it personally. It's bias generated from years of rockets hitting apartment buildings and bombers on buses.

"...slaughtering jews and raping their widows going back to mohammed who did it personally. " I am Jewish, but this statement shocked me. What is your source for the statement that Mohammed raped Jews?

I don't remember that, I just know that he raped children. The guy married a 9 year old for Heaven's sake! eeeeeeew

That's young! Even by ancient standards! Geez, the Bar Mitvah is at age 13! THAT was the age of consent back then!

Uncle Mo decided to start 4 years earlier I guess...ugh

No. Not even the OBGYN is a good case because he has no business having sex with a patient in the course of an "exam" or any other pretense. Do you have sex with a pharmacist, plumber, electrician, cable guy, mechanic or any other service person simply because they are a service person?

That woman is crazy if she thought it was routine for the OBGYN to do that! What was the excuse? He just wanted to see if it worked correctly?

Not all of us Mr. Steve, not all of us.

Caveman- I am George Clooney.

LMAO!!

LOL...good one crazyfish!

To funny