My normal position in this would be----you really don't want to play games with us. BUT with BO in the whitehouse, I've lost faith in my nation. This would be a lot different than 9/11. We'd have a known enemy, a provocation, and WHAT kind of response. This all is probably meaningless jumbo as NK won't do anything. I just can't visualize BO leading us into combat. Does anybody feel we've exacted a revenge for 9/11 and the 3K dead or are we still trying to settle the score? NOW, is when he should be "kicking some ass".

Look where 'kicking some ass' got us in the last decade - nowhere, but more needless dead and an enhanced cause for jihad against us. And aren't WE the proud, tough ones, eh? Shock & Awe attitudes are nothing short of pathetic these days, bubba. Go on back to your pretzels and Pabst!

'We must never negotiate out of fear but never fear to negotiate." As President Kennedy advised. North Korea has done this before. We can be strong and determined without endlessly engaging in shooting wars. We are fighting two wars already and that is too two many. This is not a matter of bowing down, it is a matter of being a rational intelligent nation populated by a rational and intelligent people.

Jerry-717044:

I know exactly what I wrote. Is there something that you didn't understand because I would be more than happy to clear it up for you? Let me guess, you partied and got drunk on the 4th of July celebrating something that you yourself would not be willing to defend. I don't always agree with why we're in a war but when WE are threatened you should be really glad there are people willing to protect you.

Brian - Jerry is baiting you. Ignore him. Thank you for your service. Semper Fi

Jerry

What have you been doing the past 31 years, or have you even been around that long? Thanks for your service Brian from a grateful army veteran.

Seems to me the difference between WWII and everything after is we fought an all out, everyone involved, fight to win war, vs. a politically correct war, with one hand tied behind our backs. We haven't waged total war in 69 years, and until we do we will keep getting involved in the limited, useless, long, drawn out police actions (Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan) until we, the populace, are sick of it.

Brian, thank you for your service.

Jerry ,

Well I read what he wrote and I have but one question for you. Do you know why you were able to even respond to his post? If you do not know the answer ask me or some other veteran.

Most likely this is just another empty threat by the cowards in the North. I've been in South Korea for almost a year and nothing here has changed as a result of what you read in the news. Why? Because it's nothing new.

This exercise is basically a modern-day version of Operation Paul Bunyan; we want to show them what they're up against if they want to keep playing these games.

Obama and this administration couldnt fight their self out of a wet paper bag...while the enemy was shooting bullets theyd want our troops shooting spit balls to not hurt anyone...politically correct pimpled faced pansy liberals...just like "cars dont run on unicorn milk and rainbows" ...

Brian:

Just exactly HOW do we do things in America? Since the end of WWII, we have invaded any number of foreign countries, killing more than 100,000 of our own, maiming countless more, and killing literally millions of others. We have done all this without a single declaration of war and absolutely no noticeable positive result.

For Pete's sake, this article could be Exhibit A. A civil war - this is a recurring theme - between North and South Korea. The U.S. - with the phony imprimatur of the U.N. - kills 33,000 of our own and inflicts terrible physical and mental damage on many, many more. Where are we today? We have almost 30,000 troops there, and we are listening to an insane little monster threatening us with nuclear weapons and "sacred" warfare. This is crazy.

I think some times people like you do not understand that we feel a serious debt of gratitude to you and your comrades. Speaking for myself, I thank you and seriously appreciate your service. Moreso, since I am a veteran. That does not mean however, that I am going to share your world view.

There is no end to this insanity. I don't know how many times I can point this out before people realize the truth. Since I was born, the world has not seen one day of peace. Not one. Yet, the masses - of whatever country - continue to rise up, thump their chests, and demand death for the enemy du jour.

Now that you have retired, I hope you can find time to read. You can verify my assertion that we have not had peace on this planet for years upon years upon years. Indeed, it seems we cannot live without war. If nothing else, I urge you to read "1984".

Again, my thanks for your service, but I must disagree with your point of view.

Semper Fi to all who knows and to Jerry and all others who want to Sit on theirs Asses to what is going on... if we stand and fight then things get done the right way.. for a dictator to say he is threatened by war games... get a grip and stop the threats now now later. just like the Clinton Admin. talk now fight later. at least Bush has a bigger set then most to do some thing now. you all didn't complain about the capture of the dictator in Iraq did you...

I am happy that we have not fought 'an all out war' in 69 years. Now, we need to stop fighting these limited, undeclared and frankly illegal wars. This is the 21st century. We have traveled into outer space, we have transplanted hearts and livers and other vital organs, we have extended the average life span by decades, and while we still struggle with the issue, we are gradually making headway against religious and racial prejudice. So why do we resort to the most base of human instincts in resolving human conflicts, nation against nation. I know dealing with North Korea is a major challenge, their leader is clearly in ill health and increasingly irrational. But we are rational and we need to take the lead and make them become peaceful and decent.

brian and stan- maybe you should read "War is a Racket"- by Smedley Butler. http://www.warisaracket.com/ A marine, maybe you have heard of him, lol?

Ah, politicians. Always good for mankind. The little guy with the bad haircut and a broke nation huffs and puffs towards another broke country with an imperialistic military policy. I wonder where this will take us. Just sit back and watch. I am absolutely convinced that nothing good will come out of this. Just like the politicians like it.

Couldn't agree more rock-760945. War has always been a racket.

Really quick, that dictator in Iraq was propped up by the US for years. That dictator in Iraq never attacked the US. The dictator in Iraq did not have WMD's. So no that did not make me feel any better.

Face it we've been suckered into a fight that is bankrupting this country. These guys new American strategy and new what the response would be. Going into Iraq just helped their cause. This war is putting Americans against Americans and if we keep at it we will be know different than the 'enemy' we are fighting.

I respect all soldiers American or otherwise because you do the bidding of the rich and wealthy who through money and greed control the governments of the war. You are not protecting my freedom you are protecting profits and revenues of the rich and wealthy.

Brian, Thank you for your service! My older brother was a Marine during vietnam, and I was a Navy man. Neither of us did 31 yrs, but we did both serve during war time. I agree with you

When will you people understand that this "Let's kick some Ass!" "Take no prisoners!" will continue to do nothing but bring more heartache to Americans and the rest of the world. You've lost faith in your nation because of BO? Since Bush's war has amounted to nothing, now you want to "exact(ed) a revenge for 9/11 and the 3K dead"? That statement of yours just screams ignorance.

Brian, Thanks for your service, enjoy your retirement, you've earned it.

Garrington, have you been drinking too much koolaid lately?

Yes, thanks for your service, Brian. Now, thank you in advance for never using it again as an excuse for knowing more than other people just because you served. Thank you for not assuming that just because somebody doesn't serve in the armed forces means that they "party and get drunk on July 4th celebrating something they're not willing to defend." Thank you for never ever again saying that you fought to DEFEND or country, when you were thousands of miles away in a different country attacking THEM.

No disrespect, but I don't see how being a military veteran qualifies anyone to be a foreign policy "expert", you might be an expert in hand-to-hand combat or a marksman or whatever, but still you can be a dumb-ass in politics.

A little jingoistic in here. You being a former soldier does not give you any special insight or elevate your opinion. If anything it narrows your view and jades your outlook. This is why we have civilians in ultimate control, because what it takes to win a war is not always a price this nation can afford to pay. Winning in NK would pretty much be at the cost of the heavily populated northernmost half of SK, AT LEAST, because Kim Jong Il and all his patsies are definitely raze the earth fellows.

As the son of 2 vets I respect your service, but growing up around all of that I can honestly say, at the end of the day, you're just another guy with an opinion, same as those arguing against you.

Mike V, rock, wag3, David Walker, and Jerry

It's true we've only fought political limited wars since WWII. I am glad that we've had the restraint to do so. The world would have been a much different and violent place had we nuked Korea, Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, Iraq, Somalia, and Afghanistan. What you misunderstand is that we unlike crackpots like jong il fight for the people that want freedom to live in peace where we have gone. Freedom to live their own lives free from oppression. While our reasons for intervention may not seem sound to those that hate like you do, they have made differences to those we fought for and against. The scarey thing about this situation is that this fool doesn't realize the ramifications of nuclear confrontation. The offensive use of nuclear weapons will destroy North Korea and unfortunately take South Korea, parts of China, and Japan along with them. We are conducting exercises with our allies as a show of support against a rogue nation who thinks the only way it can gain concessions is through tantrums and force. Some people are incapable of listening to reason. While the world moves toward enlightenment and a better life, there will always be those that are just beyond neanderthal ready to be violent to get their way. Defending against their aggression is right. We have pursued every avenue of peaceful means to get North Korea to give up it's delusions and join the rest of the world, we are still willing to talk to find a peaceful settlement to this problem. South Korea even has a reunification committee in the hope that someday the country will be one again. We are not the aggressors here, but as in the past, we will be if we are attacked.

Thanks romilio and Capt Tripps, for seeing through the BS. I hate how some people are so quick to throw in that they're veterans, in the hopes that somebody will take them more seriously.

All this "bowing down" stuff is just false. Obama has carried out, and been criticized for, more drone attacks than his predecessors. This has led to the deaths of high value targets.

Hilary knows what she is doing. If North Korea is that stupid, we'll retaliate.

Brian,

Although I appreciate the fact that you served in the armed forces, I must respectfully decline to agree with you, and all those who vehemently and quite viciously denegrate any and all who would DARE to give a differing opinion. The fact that you believe our president bows down to other countries when facing a threat has nothing to do with you being a veteran....or a plumber....or a rock star. Many people that served in the armed forces seem to have a sense of automatic "right" when it comes to all things national security related. This could be called a "spotlight" fallacy, or even an appeal to popularity fallacy since the fact that you were a marine does not quantify you as having a special edge in the knowledge of politics or even (gasp dare I say) all affairs military!

Having been in the Armed Forces myself and deployed once post 9-11 I have become very weary of everyone that wears their military service like its a feather in their hat....expecting people to defer to them as a result of it, and using it in silly arguments as if their service somehow was a fact in their assertions.

"What came first the chicken or the egg?"

"Well I as in the Army for 10 years and I say neither, it was a spaghetti monster that created both at the same time"

"EGADS, he was in the Army, he must be right because I'm supposed to respect him!"

Alas, this is unfortunately true of many that served in the Armed Forces. there seems to be a mental masturbation that many that have served go through at times that is nauseating. Hell I even used to do it before I realized what a douche I was being. Its not to say that we should not deserve respect for having served....just don't brandish that service as if it were your personal tool to make people respect you.

That being said, thanks for your service my friend.

I hate to sound like a war monger or such but I think that a quiet word from us to this nut would be that we have subs off shore and will end the country of N. Korea if you attack any of our allies!

I'm sure that some know this but many wars have started because of misunderstanding the intent of the other side

Brian, thanks for your service (if what you said is true) and i served as an aviation electrician in the US Navy for 4 years. I deployed on the kitty hawk and Ranger while in the Navy.

I will say this, fighting has worked in the past, but the future is about negotiations simply because of nuclear threats.

Obama is a great president and will do extremely well in a war against any nation. Bush on the other hand lost focus on our primary objective, get bin laden and he never did in 8 years. He also took focus off afghanistan and caused the huge mess we are in right now. Bush reminds me of another moron in our past named hitler. he spread himself too thin, lost focus, causing loses (thank God). then again he acted alot like hitler in many way when he said "i make the decision, no one else". seriously??

But if you are going to sit there and judge a president by wars, then you have extremely major issues and need some psychotherapy. Let's face it, bush was a drunk that bankrupt companies and couldn't even hold a job. He was a pathetic fool at the very best. 6th worst president in our countries history and you actually mentioned him in your responses? really?

A military response would be a grave response at this point in time because all NK has to do is throw nuclear bomb on SK and wipe out millions of people because you thought we should just attack them..

You've been brainwashed and can only think with your gun and not your mind. This is true with many and it's pathetic at the very least. We teach our children it's not wise to fight, but to avoid it as much as we can?? we punish our children for fighting. we suspend them from school for fighting. we ground them for fighting. your response is to fight? very odd indeed.

good luck with the thugery mentality

North Korea can do nothing without China's blessing. Keep buying their Chinese crap at Home Depot, Wal-Mart, and the shoe store, as well as their poison at the supermarket. Obama needs to bow down to China some more. Take a look at the debt he has run up. Debt to whom? Guess! Vote them out in November!

Let's scope the full picture: Iran threatens and is probably in cahoots with N. Korea who takes a less cerebral approach but threatens still.... Iraq and Afghanistan are both active, both of which have a demi-support of our traditional enemies. All of the above have the interest of China in word and, some in aid. We have troubles in S. America and, now more noise from Cuba. The Chinese are heavily invested in Africa too.

I think it was one Nikita Kruschev who said something to the effect that, 'When we said that we would bury you it was economically, if not militarily'. The chess game proceeds. The minor pieces are being positioned and the opponent is being lulled into a false sense of security in preparation for the full strike...... Has anyone comprehended the translation of an ancient Military Genius from that ancient land by the name of Sun Tzu? Maybe its time we started playing by the other man's rules.

Brian,

Your comments have sparked interesting feedback.

I gather you're no BO supporter, but I'm not clear on your implication about "we... in america". Is this an implication that the Military IS America and her citizens are not? Is it possible you are suggesting simply that the USGovt doesn't really represent it's people? Is this instead an implication that BO is partly of African descent and you (maybe) are not (to your immediate knowledge), so it is only {you/your race] that is true America?

I don't mind whichever view you are implying, but it would help my sense of what you are trying to say. I am intrigued by "we....in america".

I for one appreciate the sacrifices all americans have made throughout our history, both military and non military that bring us closer to an ideal society. I love my country.

The Lord said, "Let there be hawks and let there be doves", and we've been going at it ever since. First, 3,000 people died on 9/11, the doves forgot that. Secondly, we haven't been kicking as- at all. We've been pussy footin' around with a bunch of camel herders who take a shot and run 5 miles. Let's bomb a Taliban stronghold into oblivion----they'll think about that. Want to meet Allah? We'll fix you right up. Don't give me that kill innocents crap. What do you think those folks in the WTC did to anybody? The last war we cut it loose on was Korea. We'd have finished that up if Macarthur had his way. NO, you turn the other cheek on me and I'll pop you again. DUDOGGER, it's sad that we in the military die for people like you. I did my time. How about you?

BO is OUR president and not mine alone and I am happy that intelligent heads are prevailing in the White House. If we again had trigger happy, right wing zealots in the office who managed to deceive us as we were before the Gulf War or as LBJ did with the Viet Nam war for that matter, we as a nation, would be far more in danger of being pulled in to a conflict, even by a lowly dictator like North Korea's.

THESE EXERCISES ARE ALREADY A FAILURE AS AMERICA HAS TO KOWTOW TO CHINA!!!!!!!!!!

All the hand wringing about what Kim Jong-il will do is useless banter. He won't do a thing. He knows he has the protection of China at his back and the US has already backed off by moving the war exercises not once but three times. The endless jingoism of N. Korea about their "sacred war" is just another example of their propaganda machine. And the USA blinked.

In its usual worthless and insulting manner the Useless Nations (U.N.) refused to condemn the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) about the sinking of the frigate Cheonan and instead denounced the sinking but did not identify North Korea as the culprit. Let alone impose any sanctions. This is an obvious submission of the U.N. and the U.S. to China and secondarily to Russia who's tentacles reach beyond N. Korea all the way to Iran.

This joint USA-Republic Of Korea exercise was iniatially inteded to be a massive show of force and partnership but has quickly fizzled into a whimper. The inital planned exercises in the Yellow Sea between China and the Korean peninsula with aircraft carriers and battleships has succumbed and moved to the open ocean between the east coasts of Japan and Korea. The initial significant exhibit has dwindled down to two smaller east and west exercises simply due to the Chinese reported protests.

What was supposed to be a unified effort and show of force from the USA, S. Korea and Japan has turned into a demoralizing division. The S. Koreans have once again been shunted to the side as the USA continues its obvious and evident kowtowing to the Chinese who influence our trade and economic policies now. This is a significant message to all of us and the world that the USA is no longer the imposing force economically or militarily it once was

I didn't serve because of Viet Nam; too many soldiers were dying to make too many millionaires... the business of war left me cold.

But, I did follow each and every conflict closely- not just American, but others in the world, too, and there's one thing that everyone should start to think about.

Our military is stretched thin. Has been for a long time. The threats against our country have not abated, even though we've been fighting constantly in some pretty bad places.

This means that our threat levels aren't going to go up proportionally; they will go up geometrically.

Start asking yourself what's going to happen with nuclear threats coming from two different countries, when we face Iran and N. Korea on two new fronts at the same time? Start asking yourself... not "what's the best way we can win this?', but ask, "what's the ONLY way we can win this?"

Things do NOT look too good for us, on the face of things. If I were you people, I'd be backing the President and Secretary of State and looking for a political resolution instead of being such complete jerk-offs

Waterdog49, You're saying that it was Obama who ran up the debt? Is it even possible to be so truly ignorant as you are? Where did we stand financially after Clinton, and what happened in the 8 years after.

Don Smith...There are two schools of thought here. The first is with regard to your post that the military is stretched thin. I agree. However, since the days before WWII, the mentalities of some Americans have been that war is profitable. It is...just not for the working stiffs who aren't military. Think about who rationed food, etc during WWII? The rich? You can bet not. Yet, as you eloquently point out, the rich sent other peoples' kids off to die. This is no different that the poor farm kids sent to fight for rich men's plantations in the south during the Civil War.

The second school of thought is that if as Eisenhower stated, the military industries amass too much control over the government due to their bloated military spending, the question becomes whether or not that is intentional in order for the US taxpayer to foot the bill for wars that make the military industrialists rich?

While Bush went around calling Iran and North Korea part of the "axis of evil", the real intent was to keep a chilling control of profit for future wars. On this issue with North Korea, we need diplomacy, of the kind only Barack Obama can accomplish.

These threats are nothing new. The North Korean government won't do anything other than threaten. The country's economy has been in dire straits for years, they have no allies, and will face a multi national military response should they become aggressive against the South Korean government. From reading some of the above posts it's easy to see why foreign govermnets say that the U.S. is a divided nation.

romillio: you are correct. Just because someone has served in the military doesn't make them a foreign policy expert, but serving does give one keen insight into politics. we know that whenever we see tactical maps of certain regions start to go up on walls in the (S-2/G-2), and then we start training for specific climates via (S-3/G-3),and our prepositioned supply ships are called up (G-4), and monies start getting allocated(G-8) that the U.S. leaders are not getting along with some other countries leaders, and that there is a very real possibility that fighting is going to start....Soon. But this is not one of those cases.

richard,

garrinton's response was a bit much, but do me a favor, find the aircraft parts from the pane that crashed in PA and the one that crashed into the pentagon. it's seems 2 towers in NYC can fall with planes in them and we can still find those parts.. the amazing vanishing plane parts were made during the bush administration. the most corrupt administration in the history of our nation. everyone of the higher ranked appointee's all had amazing investments in oil. Chenney was brought up on charges stemming from tampering with oil prices (found not guilty ofcourse).

waterdog

Obama is trying to fix what the idiot before him broke and because of that idiot only China is willing to help us.

MikeV

don't forget the 5million+ jobs Clinton created before leaving office and Bush lost them.

sit2K...While I've never been a fan of an Bush having a thorough knowledge of "how" they rose to power, Bush was definitely not the warmonger that Cheney is. And, Like China who wouldn't mind the US getting into a fracas with North Korea, Halliburton and China both know a good thing when they see it coming. For Halliburton, Iraq was big time military profits as an outsourced vendor. For China, North Korea would be a huge benefit in terms of Chinese aspirations of growth of industry.

ewent, I agree.

wag3, I appreciate your fondness for peace, what you fail to understand is WE ARE NOT THE ONE WHO IS ALWAYS WRONG. But I know trying to explain such a concept to you is a waste of keystrokes. But, hey... I'm a sucker for a hard case...

Your statement that the "Small engagements" (although I would not personally call any war small) are quite frankly illegal" bears comment. I have been fortunate enough to have heard that Liberal/60's hippie "Myth" debunked, and done so with the assured way to determine a "Myth"... It has been hauled in front of the Supreme Court of these United States by the ACLU, and nearly 8 other organizations "Mostly by agenda motivated Liberal front organizations for social justice" and the matter has been defeated every time. Now, call me what you please (Liberals excel at such endeavours) but that debunks your "Illegal war" Conspiracy theory thoroughly. But, just like so many other like yourself, you only see what your agenda is focused on, and you only want to hear what you have been indoctrinated into believing as true. Even if the highest Court in the land disagrees.

South Korea, Exists today as a free Nation, to compete in the Olympics, add to the worlds economy, and now build really nice phones,TV's and Cars because of that so-called "Illegal Action" our United States Soldiers (And a bunch of cut off & hungry and very determined 1st Corp of Marines at cold lonely place called the "Chosin reservoir") fought, died and stood fast for. My Grandfather Died during those 3 weeks, I do not know what day, how, because he was never found. He may have even died in a prison camp. I shutter to think. I chose to believe he died standing up with his boots and weapon in use.

Vietnam would have had very similar outcome had Kennedy lived. Unfortunately, he didn't and Hippies "like YOU" who stood in airports and spit and threw dog @!$%# on our soldiers as they came home made that war a "Fight the Communists HERE and THERE war" very, very untenable sorta thing. When undetermined, indecisive POLITICIANS of questionable motives run our Nations interests abroad. Bad things happen and wars turn into drawn out "Polling Endeavours" that Presidents get lost in why they are doing what they are. They become all politics and no results. Your health care with be very similar... just give it time. Vietnam ended up being run the same way Obama is drifting towards today.

I suppose that you think we should have just "WAITED" for Saddam to finish looting, Raping, killing and burning the Oil Wells of Kuwait before we took on that "Illegal War"? Perhaps had YOU seen those people that his soldiers left behind hung up on meat hooks and hung by their necks from stair case rails as I did... you would not be so "Generous" to believe Diplomacy was ever a "Viable alternative" for dealing with Saddam. I suppose that fact he used Chemical nerve agents on his OWN PEOPLE the Kurds in the North is a reason to...NEGOTIATE...For you???? He did not ask Kuwait for any "DIPLOMACY" I don't ever remember him asking the Kuwaiti leadership if he could invade, plunder and murder the people in their Nation. Why do you suppose that is? Only us bad American do that sort of thing...Right?

I suppose Clinton should have just "Spoken" with those who were doing the Ethnically cleansing in Bosnia Herzegovina? The most recent research places the number of killed people at around 100,000–110,000 and 1.8 million displaced during that time... I guess you would tell us how if "Obama" were there to "do his THING" all would have been different? I suppose he (Bam Bam) would have just bowed down to "Slobodan Milosevic" He was very "Amicable Sort" from what the "War Crimes" commission says about him. I suppose the ruins of Sarajevo will tolerate your "Talkative Nature"

Afghanistan... Here is a place that would have LOVED a nice round of "NEGOTIATIONS". Just one quick question... Which Terrorist regime or Terrorist training camp should we have negotiated with? OH...I know... We should have just acted like the World Trade centers and the Pentagon REALLY WERE attacked by our own Government because we are getting SO MUCH out of fighting those Religious nuts in the dirt hole. You know the one thing I find most amusing? It is one of the biggest questions I have (and I have a bunch) for Liberal Lunes... Why is it they will "DESTROY" anything & everything concerning Christians and Conservatives because of their beliefs about the sanctity of life and their desire for a more moralistic lifestyle... YET TALK OF THE MURDERING MUSLIM RADICAL AS IF THEY ARE THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD HURT LITTLE LAMBS ON THE PLANET??? HUH??? WHY!!!! WHY!!! WHY!!! are you so willing to EXCUSE the actions of the people who MURDERED 3000+ people using OUR CIVILIAN AIRLINERS and say we should be "More understanding" and "Willing to listen" to them... A group that if you even had one shred of understanding about you would realize THEY HATE US FOR WHO WE ARE... NOT WHAT WE DO.... like they do the the Israeli's... They despise you because you are "INFIDEL" NOT because you like to drive a SUV you stupid person you. They want to CLEANS THE WORLD of anything but those who believe as they do... you moron. JUST as they did in BOSNIA.. HOWEVER... instead of "ETHNIC" cleansing... The radical Muslims want "RELIGIOUS" cleansing. YOU STUPID FOOL. Stop being so willing as a group to CRUCIFY those who wish for a more "God Centered" life who are Christian or Jewish or Catholic... yet act as if the Murdering Radicalized Muslims are being "Held back" and we should all be ashamed... You Progressive/Liberals are SO HYPOCRITICAL and single minded for people who call themselves "ELITE"!!!

IRAQ... Should we have gone there? Ask those who are free in Iraq... see what they say... I did. I will allow you to do the same. I believe you Liberal "ELITIST KNOW-IT-ALL" types have made a very big and uniformed (at least truthfully informed) assumption. Based upon the VERY agenda motivated and exceptionally edited and CONTROLLED information leaving the media about what happened and is happening there. But, I would rather see you make fools of yourself chasing the heels of CNN, MSNBC and NBC listening to what THEY TELL YOU.... then to tell you the truth. Was it hard, yes, did too many American kids die...YEP...ONE was too many. I would have much rather seen the whole country Nuked from Space. But make no mistake... We WERE and ARE there for a damn good reason. There were were TONS of Chemical weapons that made it North through Syria, Jordan and Southern Turkey and made it to God knows where. Make no mistake, without your knowledge YOUR Nation and its proud and strong military and civilian agencies have captured and stopped things moving through that Northern region of Iraq that would curl you toe nails if you knew even existed outside the "BUNKERS" in Russia and Pakistan it should be stored in and hidden from the public for their own safety in. Just be glad our presence in Iraq allowed for such interceptions and don't look the gift horse as it were...OKAY?

Now... I hate war..... But there are a few out there who's idea of "Diplomacy" is getting what they want...Period.

Allow me to make a quote made of the Joker in Batman...

"Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Ill in N. Korea is one that fits this profile... he is an insolent and very moody little dictator who is used to getting EVERYTHING he wants in his world and does not understand why its not the same outside his Nations boundaries. He is dangerous and TALK is just fine, I agree, try to be reasonable. In the mean time, prepare to erase his existence from history should it become a necessity. See, that is what those in the Liberal world cannot reconcile, they would have us sit on our hands until it was too late and we were neck deep without an answer. It can s=be seen in the way you handle daily affairs and eat your own when they do something unexpected.

This sort (Ill), is unfortunately who is out there, and all the "Peace beads" and "Happy thoughts" in the world is not going to change it. Do yourself a flavor..... If you did get a higher education... Call your school back and scold them for having too many tenured, Progressive/Liberal activists on there faculty. Tell them when you bought you education, you wanted to be taught REALITY on multiple levels. You did not want to be BRAINWASHED by the Liberal Machine to be just another "Obamabot" who sees what they want through what they have been trained to perceive. You can see why its horrible for a White person to racially abuse a Black person... But you cannot find the way back from the edge to say when black people abuse that system of belief back on Whites its wrong also.

You see the Right and groups like the Tea Party as "Racists and Radicalized nuts who are violent and abusive" even in the face of proof the polar opposite is truth. We see Leftists burn cars and tear apart cities to make their point. NOT ONE ARREST has been made at a Tea Party event...NOT ONE. Yet at the past 2 G20 meetings, leftist radicals have had to have SWAT teams break up their violence. The media is so Liberally indoctrinated they Omit complete stories in order to sew their own brand of reality. Thank God there is still one or two media organizations who are committed to ALL the truth... Not just what fits their Progressive.Liberal agenda and the people who propitiate it.

Call back you school and tell them you want 3/4 your money back. Tell them you were only taught half the truth... and only half of THAT was true. Tell them you want them to pay for your "Dis-indoctrination" Psychiatrist meetings so you can finally be free from the "Brain washed Liberalism" you have been made a victim of. Then, once you have gone through all of that. Go visit a Vet hospital and thank a few guys and gals there for their service. Buy a US flag (doesn't have to be huge) and place it in your window. Go to the place of worship or spiritual meaning that is for you and kiss the ground, tell YOUR God you are grateful that you are an American and that you have a chance that BILLIONS would give up EVERYTHING to have and you didn't have to do anything except be born.

Now.... That was enough Keystrokes that if it was a waste... I at least feel much better for doing it... God Bless the USA!

Wow, now there's the WMD(Wall-o-text of Mass Destruction).

Hey people, does anyone remember that Bush allowed us to get attacked on 9/11? Because, the GOP has tried to bury this little tidbit.

Derek...The US had no business in Viet Nam. Read your history. The only reason the US got involved in those Gulf Wars was oil. Read your history. We got involved in WWII because Germany was a known threat to our freedom. The threat was out there. And, with your verbiosity about the 60's...if we left things to you right wingers, there'd be NO Civil Rights, gender bias would still be condoned and McCarthyism would have continued to cause more suicides.

Only narrow minded people bash the protestors of the 1960's because they didn't have the guts to force changes they knew were wrong. You sound like part of the hideous generation of people who were taught to "be seen and not heard". Sorry, that wasn't good enough for people like me who grew up in the 60's seeing the government do things that empowered the rich at the expense of the poor while the narrow minds of the righteous conservatives sat stupidly by thinking somehow it would trickle down to them. It never did and never will.

So you can stop with your rants. US Big Business and the huge empowerment of the CIA have cause more small squirmishes worldwide. As for J. Edgar Hoover, how he ever amassed so much power akin to dictatorship, is beyond the pale.

Yeah, kind of blows you away with all the verbiage. So many points, if you can call them that, are made that it is impossible to answer. To be as concise as possible. We are a nation that was founded on the idea that men(humans) are reasonable. I fully understand that others are not, and oftentimes avoiding war is a difficult challenge. I was seven years old, when the Cold War was at a fevered pitch and the Cuban Missile Crisis began. President Kennedy, hardly a dove, found a way to reason with Nikita Kruschev, a virulent and dedicated communist prone to highly emotional and angry outbursts. Together they reasoned and kept the world safe. Now, I say today, let's try it again. I certainly never said that we are always wrong. I have known many protesters of the Viet Nam war, and not one of them ever spat upon a soldier returning from duty there. I would be saddened to hear of any such case. Most of the service people were treated quite cordially and with understanding. If we had continued in Viet Nam our nation perhaps even today would be bogged down in that hopeless war. We pulled out and now, a generation later, we oddly enough winning the Viet Nam war. That country is adopting so many of our ways. The wealth, manpower and strength of a nation is wasted in the most horrible way in war. We should seek peace.

We, as a country should never go into any war unless we are prepared to wage all out war. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan has shown us this much. Wae should be waged to untterly destroy your enemy and all of his support base. This type of war was waged by many civilizations throughout history, such as the Romans, Mongols, and the Iraelites to name a few. As a matter of fact, in the 'Bible', the Isrealites were told by 'GOD' to destroy everything within their given land of Judea and not take anything. This was to insure that not even their culture was left behind. In areas outside the homeland, they were told to kill every male, 'yeah even down to he that can stand and pisseth upon a wall'. That was a direcct quote from the 'Bible'.
We should wage all wars as such, and to all of you who would bemoan the killing of innocents, tough $hit. War is hell and if you leave anyone alive that will remember, it will only come back to bite you in the a$$. Look at the Balkans. They are still unstable because people their are stilling willing to kill each other over things that were done hundreds of years ago. The same is true of the Middle East. Because the Isrealites did not follow 'GODS' plan, it has resulted in thousands of years of constant warfare. We should have went into Afghanistan and totally destroyed everything and everyone because they harboured our enemy. We should not have gone into Iraq however fore they did nothing to us. Also, just to say, I was in the U.S. Navy and I have several degrees in military history.
If we go to war, we should wipe out the area, cleanse it of all aspects of the people and culture and take it over, period, but only when we are attacked. If some of you have a problem with this, it is just because your a bunch of whiny a$$ pu$$ies.

gregg

you mean that we were forwarned and no one did anything? We non-gop butt lickers know that.. we all remember the Bush reaction when he was told about the first world trade center hit.

Bush was thinking, my plan is going as scheduled.

Greg4422 quit trolling with the "blame it all on Bush" crap. No one "ALLOWED" us to get attacked on 9/11. There were mistakes made by both the Bush and Clinton administrations but that doesn't change the FACT that the people responsible were the cave dwelling $h*t bags Osama Bin Hidin' and his beady eyed b@st*rd buddy "my turban is too tight" al-Zawari and the 19 ISLAMIST pole smokers who hi-jacked our jet liners and turned them into WMD's. Mistakes were made by both the Clinton and Bush administrations in handling this half pint thug Lil' Kim Il but if he attacks our forces that it's on HIM,not them !!

i don't think God's plan included ethnic cleansing.. cough!

DerekV:

Now THAT was one of the most intelligent, well-written, & factual posts I have ever read here. I eagerly await the response back from the individual(s) you directed it to. They will of course, be the exact opposite of what you wrote. Destructive, instead of instructive; emotional, instead of thoughtful, full of abusive name calling, & vitrolic criticism. (Although they would argue that yours is the same...) I find the more I read these posts, the more I'm reminded of the old adage "You can lead a horse to water......" I applaude you sir, at your attempt to reach people with the dictates of reality, especailly knowing that the attempt will most likely fall upon deaf minds. I also hope, as perhaps you do; that the attempt will make at least ONE or TWO people think abit more clearly. (My mother in law, who is a retired History teacher once said that those few minds that truely grasp the subject matter are what makes the effort worth while).

As for the actual news story unto itself, I think that this is nothing more than posturing upon Kim Jong Ils part yet again. (If any one ever suffered more from Napolean syndrome....lol). HE maybe crazy enough to truely launch, I dont think the rest of his goverment is quite THAT stupid. And of course if they are, I don't think that China will support them either. If anything, there would be the usual denounciations, & accusations, but in the end China would be IMMENSELY relieved that this mad little emperor would be gone. Think about it. They would be in a position of having a thorn in thier side gone AND have the United States to blame/thank for it......

ewent: ARE YOU KIDDING ME???!!!! Read your history sir! Who do you think CREATED the Civil Acts ammendments??? The "Evil Republicans" were responsible for writing, & passing these acts despite the Democrats attempts to filibuster them.

then not that "then it's on HIM"

fred

can you please find the parts to the plane that crashed in PA and the plane that crashed into the pentagon? also while you're at it, find all the tapes the US government confiscated from al the businesses in the pentegon area..

The Bush administration is the most corrupt we have had in our great history. It's been reported as such and you need to admit it and move on.

Yup, that other war with the Koreas sure helped the safety of this nation and the world. How many times does this nation have to go to war? War, war, war. And, all the reasons and all the enemies change with the turning of the tides. Why does this nation have this dictatorial attitude and worldview, we can ram our worldview and societal voices and beliefs down the rest of the world?

We are the world's bullies and imperialists, and warring breeds hatred and terrorism. Yup, what did our other war with this nation solve? Let's adopt a little Taoism. Stay at home and mind our own affairs. We aren't God. Why does this bully nation believe it is? Why not try a few years of peace, save the economy and mind our own business as this nation already has 2 wars agoin and cannot afford the trillions of monies flushed down all these rat holes.

Pass the olive branch and save trillions of dollars.

Perhaps most of these posters are unaware that both the North and South Korean governments consider that there is only one Korean nation, not two. There are, they recognize, two competing governments for this nation. That seems to lead to the conclusion that soon or later, one or the other will attempt to "unite" the nation under one government.

I visited Korea (Seoul and Buson) in 1982 and was surprised to find that the government was still on a war footing. You were not allowed to take photos from your hotel window, nor from an airplane flying Seoul - Busan. Moreover, I was not even allowed to have a camera with me; the flight crew held it for me and returned it on landing. Perhaps things have changed in the past 28 years, but the events we are discussing (?) would seem to indicate otherwise.

Derekv and dbk

Saddam Hussein was wrong in every way in what he had done, killing people by using nerver gas and his soldiers were wrong from what they had done. You're absolutely correct in every way.

But the people that he used nerve gas on were people that were trying to divide iraq in 2 different countries and he didn't want any iraqi soldiers to die so he had nerve gas used. I distinctly remember the same decision Truman needed to make when asked what do you want to do? use a nuke or send in our troops and have a possible 150k in casualties.. BOTH decisions were wrong, but it seems you hold a higher regard to Truman than Saddam, correct? My point is, we were forgiven for our acts but we didn't forgive their act? didn't we supply Saddam with weapons to kill Iranians during their war because we don't like Iran?

I believe the Iraqi goverment at the time warned the Kuwati government to pay for the oil and pipeline use and the Kuwati government laughed in his face. Then he amassed his troops at the border and warned them to do the right thing and they refused. The Bush admin at the time warned Saddam not to invade and he did for reasons that were stupid.

During the war in Kuwait the US Marines were interviewed about the war and the response of most Marines were "we cant believe we fought for these animals (meaning kuwaiti people). They treat people like animals and they have American women here as slaves".

My point is, the people in that region act in this fashion towards one another and have done so for thousands of years. They take care of their own issues and when we went in we created all of the issues that we have now with the middle easterners.

the iraqi people are happy to be free, but they want us out and we have not complied

As a long-term Asia-watcher, I can tell all that Koreans do not process aggression, rude behaviors, and social situations in the same way that most of the planet does. So, let's begin there. It's a lot of posturing going on--a uniquely Korean dance of sorts.

If you want North Korea to ignore the military games, just throw some food over the fence. As Northerners rush to fill their empty bellies, the maneuvers can be carried out without provocation or notice.

There are 3 kinds of people in this world.

!. Active service members

2.Veterans

3. Cowards

The first 2, pay the price for the 3rd to run their stupid mouths, with a big yellow stripe running down their back.

sit2k, guess you don't know much about physics do you. The plane in PA went in at an estimated speed of 500MPH, not much will remain of anything at that speed. I don't know what the speed of the Pentagon attack was but with the weight of the structure collapsing on it probably crushed the larger items that might have survived. Don't forget the WTC buildings were glass and structural steel, not much resistence there compared to the reinforced concrete of the Pentagon.

So, Which one are you ? I'm not be a veteran, or inlisted, but I support our troops reguardless of any circumstances. Your views don't have merit, except to your own ego.

Out come the Demublican kindergarteners. My party is better. No, my party is better. You clueless twits need to grow up. Both your parties are ran by greedy, lying, dirty scumbags. They laugh every night at the ease with which you are manipulated. They are one and the same.

As to this article, open a history book or newspaper every now and then. This same rhetoric has been going on for the better part of a century. North Korea is a little nothing who poses no threat to anyone other than Seoul. Granted, that is a big threat, but it's also been an empty threat for over 50 years. They know another full-scale or nuclear attack on the South would mean their obliteration. In other words, nothing to see here. Please move along.

Yeah there ya go, thats the spirit, lets get into another war! Chinas already paying for the iraq/afghan war, i'm sure they would loan us the money. Think before you blame Obama for everything. I'm surprised that all of you nut-case right wingers don't blame obama for the cricifiction of christ or even the eruption of Mt. Saint Helens! Sure Bush would want a war after all he left us with two wars completely unpaid for. When is the conservative right gonna pull their head out of their a** and start thinking for themselves and not just repeating what they hear on Beck, Limbaugh, Ingraham and Oreilly. Brain washed idiots - each and every one of ya!!!

Brian, Joe Veteran and all you who think the same...how can you guys fit those hats on your enormous egos. "I was in the military and know everything about everything and I'm right...what, you don't agree with me, well, you must be a stupid civilian idiot, who won't stand up for his country, let's fight, I'll kick your ass and kill you". Didn't know SK or Vietnam was part of the US, need to stand up for who? Hell, even when there isn't an enemy, just make up some stories of WMD, confuse the masses with propaganda, so we can invade and destoy another culture that may or may not threaten our way of life. Hmmm, wonder why the US is much maligned and despised in the world? Look no further than the war mongering attitudes of some of these posters. No different than the Bubba's hanging out in bars waiting to beat up the the first person that looks different to walk through the door. You bully enough people and eventually they will stand up to you, then the bully gets his ass kicked. What would the US say to the people of Seoul once it is reduced to a flaming pile of rubble...Ooops, hey wasn't our fault, mind if we sneak out the back door, cause we can't afford to lose another fight. US politicians are split with those that value the constitution and those that wipe their butts with it and use it for their own political gain. Most politicians are self serving habitual job seekers that are constantly switching their agendas in order to remain gainfully employed. Bunch of stand up individuals if you ask me. For you military vets, it's pretty sad that you must continue to talk the brainwashed rhetoric you have been force fed all those years. Time to look past the permanently etched crosshairs in your eyes and see what kind of global chaos the US has caused with its arrogance. Albeit you vets are just pawns on the politicians chess board, however, maybe you are playing the wrong game.

That being said, North Korea is run by a crazy man that cannot be reasoned with. It is a bad situation and one that requires a delicate approach, because the US is not worried about NK attacking Alabama, it's the Korean people of both sides that must be very afraid to be caught in the middle of this political quagmire.

What is the point of this idiotic argument? The only thing I see happening is division getting driven deeper and deeper between those of us who protect and defend this amazing country, and those of us who are able to enjoy the standard of living we posess thanks to these men and women. There's not "3 kinds of people in the world". That is unfair, and generalizing to say. You can't just shove people you dont know from Adam into a category which YOU determined. The USA should and WILL defend herself if necessary, but in all honesty would it not be better to find a more diplomatic solution BEFORE it gets to that point? There needs to be a happy medium. Of course we cannot sit mildly, doing nothing while North Korea blows everyting up around us; but we also cannot throw our weapons and weight around with the prideful attitude that nothing is going to happen. This is a subject that requires a solution must be firm, but not jingoistic and ego fueled. Let us think with clear heads, and realize the full outcome of situations before we are so quick to punch someone in the eye, or sit down and suck our thumbs. Whatever is going to happen, will happen. Let us thank our veterans, and the people working today to insure safety and security, and let us stand united as AMERICANS during this heated time.

I served in korea from 1987 to 1988,and it is still the same then as now with the North being dumb.

The bottom line is the military has become a tool of the ruling class in this country. They are sent to far away lands, not to defend freedom, but to further the agenda of those in power. The day you consider Iraq a threat to the United States, you may as well throw in the towel and give up on life. This country will endure, regardless of the outcomes on the Arabian and Korean Peninsulas. The modern world spheres of influence are set. You have 3 major nuclear powers converging on the Korean Peninsula, and 3 major nuclear powers who'd rather sell TVs and air conditioners to each other than squabble over a nothing like North Korea. You have a similar situation on the Arabian Peninsula. They can fight it out all they want, but the United States, Russia and China WILL keep the oil flowing. So, in the end, it really doesn't matter what happens there. These powers would agree to turn the whole region to glass, then split the oil if it ever came to that. That's why Jews, Arabs, Persians and Koreans pull the sheets over their heads every night. They are expendable pawns in world affairs.

Since WW ll, CAN ANYONE name a WAR (not a police engagement) that the US has won?

The rest of the world realizes the US economy functions, based on the Military Industrial Complex's scare tactics with US citizens.

The only war won is the american nutbags thinking they won something.

Serving in the military doesn't make you a foreign policy expert, but by God everybody else is?? I can't believe I got deleted at 2.1. There goes the liberal press protecting their guy again. I just don't know what you libs will do in 2012. I guess still be blaming it on GWB. It's tough admitting that BO just can't handle the job. Bush. Bush. Bush, blame, blame, blame. It's been an unwritten law that Presidents don't criticize their predecessors---not this guy---it's everbody but him. Bush, BP, The Brits, Scotland. The whole world is wrong, but not El Presidente. NO doubt----worst President yet.

Obviously the people in the military are brainwashed because you can never put out a fire with more fire. An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind, and in this case if the U.S. continues to provoke N.K. than there will be a third world war that will annihilate humans around the world. It's a shame that we humans continue to fight amongst ourselves. Our potential in the universe is so great if only we ALL came together around the world and we put these petty patriotic differences and greedy attitudes aside.

North Korea can do nothing without China's blessing. Keep buying their Chinese crap at Home Depot, Wal-Mart, and the shoe store, as well as their poison at the supermarket. Obama needs to bow down to China some more. Take a look at the debt he has run up. Debt to whom? Guess! Vote them out in November!

obama would simply apologize to the north koreans.

After reading pages of the attack mentality of some I wonder of any of you realize if we attack NK the response we need to be concerned with is CHINA not Kim Jong Ill

Eric-2060960 it's not for members of the military to question politics. What you civilians should be doing is questioning your leaders on why we need to be there. So stand up and be counted. support the troops who have no choice but to follow orders. The real issues are, who is driving this insatiable appetite for war?

I'll be in South Korea at the end of next month. Looks like North Korea is preparing for my layover with their neighbor. Honestly Kim, I really prefer fireworks or sparklers.

Hey Blackwood--You know there is a whole generation that missed the draft, and never had to sign up for selective service because of age RIGHT?

Your post is not an opinion, its a total insult to an entire generation that is very appreciative and supportive of our military, regardless of political BS, in whatever task they are facing. We owe them our freedom of choice and the life we have.

Unfortunately there are p**cks like you out there that have your heads stuck so far up your *ss, you are not even capable of rational thought. Go "do" yourself..........

There is a reason we've not fought a 'total war' since 1945, and we probably never will barring a hostile invasion from space aliens or some other unforeseeable but equally dire global threat.

That reason is nuclear weapons.

As long as they are, or are even believed to be, in existence anywhere in the world, no nation of any real importance will allow themselves to be involved in an all-out war. Before the end of WWII, the worst that could happen to a nation at war was for a larger, more powerful ally of your enemy to commit to the hostilities. This was bad enough when all forces were conventional.

Some of the third world nations aside, those that were located in a geographically or a geologically strategic location were, and still are, invariably aligned with either the first world or the (even if now 'former') second world nations. For those too young to be familiar with the Cold War era, the 'first world' is the 'free' countries essentially headed by the US and the NATO members. The 'second world' was the Soviet Union and the Communist Bloc nations of the Warsaw Pact. The 'third world' were the developing nations, and if they had anything of value, the two sides worked very hard to purchase their loyalty in hopes of either preventing or prevailing in World War Three.

When developing nations begin to fight anything much beyond a purely civil war, it almost always ended up becoming a 'proxy war'. Korea and Viet Nam are the classic examples, but far from the only ones. On the face of it, the Communist North was always at odds with the non-communist (I've got to admit, 'free', 'democratic', or 'capitalist' is a bit of a stretch.) South. It appeared that the US and allies like Australia or UN member nations were 'advising' or offering 'military support', and the Soviets and/or Chinese were doing likewise. Make no mistake about it: The US and the USSR were at war. It's just that instead of fighting each other face to face, it was more like we were sparring with remote control robots or marionette puppets, which were the Koreans and Vietnamese.

Could we have 'won' in Korea or Viet Nam? Easily. The problem was, if we did what it takes to clobber the opposite proxy side into submission, we ultimately would have probably lost big time when the Soviets got irked enough to nuke us, and I'm sure they saw it exactly the same way. What we ended up doing was keeping the heat on just enough to remind the Soviets that they couldn't just walk into whatever part of the world they wanted to while we sat on our hands and watched them. That's all we really could do, under the circumstances.

It doesn't make sense to most people, but by 'losing' in Korea and Viet Nam - letting them essentially end in a 'draw' when we backed out and then leaving our allies to basically fend for themselves - we actually 'won'. Nobody got nuked, and the Soviet Union eventually collapsed, while the US and NATO are still here.

Still, as long as we have nuclear weapons, the Russians have them, as well as Britain, France, China, Israel, India, Pakistan, et al., any country doing battle with another is probably going to realize that one of the nuclear powers is likely 'backing' their opponent. Lash out harder, up the ante, and then risk a mushroom cloud over your homeland.

Not a good idea!

Well, he's got more balls than the US president Odumbo.

I don't have any more time to waste, but as long as comments have personally been directed at me:

MikeV: Calling other Newsvine participants names, such as "ignorant", will not solve our enormous economic and national security problems right now. If you want to see how our national debt has soared to $13 trillion just since Obama took office in 1/08, you only need to google "US national debt". A quick reference, which is only one of many, would be the unbelievable chart on wikipedia. A picture says a thousand words. But keep calling me ignorant because that will solve all of our problems as a nation. And keep blaming Bush, who has, in reality, been out of office since he informally turned the reins over to Obama after the election in 11/08.

Sit2k: As per my comment above, calling Obama's predecessor an idiot isn't going to solve anything either. Whether I like it or not, it is Obama who has been the President for over 1 and 1/2 years now, and North Korea is set on testing HIS strength and weakness and no one else's. George W. Bush is no longer President. When are you people going to get over that and deal with the present catastrophe in the WH?

BTW, the article is about North Korea's threat of nuclear war against South Korea AND the United States, and my response addressed China's undeniable influence over North Korea, so don't muck up the issue at hand with other crap about Obama's predecessor or any other subject other than the matter at hand.

Cut off their supplies (food, medicine) and other resources until they start acting civilized.

Simple solution in dealing with stupid people. Just like in America. If the people got together and voted on the president and government workers salaries, most of them wouldn't be making over 30k a year, and most would be making a minimum wage salary like the majority of citizens make today.

The power is in the hands of the people. You have just have to start believing in that.

REVOLUTION people.

Big Government, bigger problems, smaller government, fewer problems.

Norcal2: I'll be praying for you and for all the rest of us...

I stand corrected. Obama officially took office in 1/09, not 1/08, even though for me it seems like freakin forever. Take a look at the charts of our national debt soaring to $13 trillion since 1/09 then. You can find them all over the place. They are not a closely held secret. That's what I originally meant.

As a veteran (sorry, just wanted to get that part out of the way), I think that what Jerry is trying to say, is that you can oppose the war/police action/whatever without putting down our men and women in the service. If you oppose the action, that is fine. However don't blame the honorable men and women who are sent over to whatever God-forsaken part of the world to carry out the orders of those on capitol hill. I believe that all veterans deserve our respect and support, regardless of which side of the aisle we sit on.

The issue that we have seen in the last 50 years boils down to not fighting a war to win it. Unfortunatly our young men and women are ordered to fight hard enough to make the other person give up. Or take a strategic area and then back off of it. Wars are not something that should be taken lightly. They are something that we should win and win decisivly. If we don't go into them with the will to completly and totally wipe out the opposition, then we should never put US military personnel in the position to die.

Just my opinion and as we all know, opinions are like @!$%#s. Everyone has them and they usually stink.

First of all I want to say thank you Brian and all of you vets from the bottom of my heart for your service and courage. God bless you all.

To those of you who are still living with the notions of the sixties, that The US are nothing but war mongering Capitalist pigs. If this were the case we would have dropped quite a few more nuclear bombs while we were the only ones to have it and taken over the world. But did we do that? No! We rebuilt parts of Germany and all of Japan. The reason we didn't rebuild all of Germany is because Russia had it's portion. Did you ever see the difference between East and West Berlin before the wall came down. You would have been amazed. Amazed how benevolent we tend to be.

it seems todays generation doesn't understand what war realy is .they should ask germany,japan,england, about the cost of an all out war on the home front is. they are still rebuilding in some places and people in japan are still dying from the 2 bombs that was droped to end this tragic era. like someone said we are 1 &3 in this arena one win three loses the one win was all out to end the senceless killing but the cost was high to us and them.it takes someone with big brass ones to step up but i haven't seen anyone since ike,orJ.F.K. to fill those shoes

Although I agree for the most part with your entire post, I think you've left out one important element to your theory. What you neglected to mention was the irrationality of Kim Jong Il. He is a little man with some serious delusions of grandeur. His health has been in a serious decline for years, and he is grooming his son to carry on his leadership of North Korea. His irrationality lies in his misguided assumptions of power. He was raised in an atmosphere of complete subserviance by anyone he was exposed to. Under his father's authoritarian and totalitarian rule over the country, Kim Jong was regarded as a holy figure ever since birth. He never heard the word no, and for other countries to disagree with him on anything might be seen as a direct attack on his authority and sovreignity. He believes that because China backed them in the Korean Conflict (almost 60 years ago), that they tacitly agree with whatever North Korea does. In my opinion, China tolerates Jong Il's rants because geographically, North Korea is a buffer to the west. But, that does not mean that NK can continually act like the bully on the playground, or the defiant little child that breaks a toy, and runs and hides when mom comes into the room. That being said... North Korea is making more (in an endless series of) rants against what they say is provocative moves by the US and South Korea. They make threats about nuclear weapons, and the resulting use of them. This will work against the North in two ways.

One, if they are just making another one of their empty threats, then their perceived credibility will once again take a hit, and they will find it harder to be taken seriously later. This can cause the increasingly radical Kim Jong Il to contemplate the use of nukes as an "I told you so, but you wouldn't listen" ploy. The results would be catastrophic for the region, and very likely the planet. But somehow, I don't think that Jong Il was paying attention in school when they covered the theory of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD).

Two, as a sadistic way to ensure his legacy, and as a radical and totally irrational way to display his contempt and hatred of anything western (and the US especially), Kim Jong Il might use nukes against the south as a precursor to a military invasion and reintegration of the south, by the destruction of Seoul and the elimination of the government. He, along with his government, have shown a complete disregard for their own population, so contempt for other nations would not require a large leap. Of course this is worst-case, but with a despot on the edge of insanity, anything is possible. Just saying.

Waterdog49 thank you. Here is how I see it: Kim is a little goofy with the wacky and drops these threats every so often. That does not make it harmless as the last missile issue shows but it certainly does not mean that he would do what he says. Threats from him are usually followed by "So this is what I want for not acting out".

Granted he can be very dangerous because you never know if one day he will slip over the edge of insanity but I am not worried. I am pretty sure that any US involvement that has a message in an exercise will be highly protected by the military. Kim seems to prefer striking without warning (see missile strike on S. Korean ship that likely motivated the exercise.) He also seems to issue warnings when he wants to talk about what he really wants.

I am not worried as Kim will play his card very soon and hopefully what he wants is X amount of aid from the global community (the usual) and introduction to a blond American actress (his leanings) and front row seats to Cirque du Soleil. Lets just pray he has not changed.

we kicked ass in grenada!

ps the north Koreans killed 40 or our allies. they murdered them in a surprise attack with a submarine. If anyone thinks sending our boats over there in an attempt to flex nuts is a good idea i think you are wrong. we are basically daring them to shoot at us. What we need is a decisive strike that eliminates north koreas leadership.

Didn't Saddam Hussein have several years to hide/get rid of the WMD while he wouldn't let inspectors in? In that time, he could have hid the twin towers....

I am sick of a government and people who appologize for our greatness. We earned it. Soldiers payed for the freedom we now enjoy. We werre a great nation of risk takers and go-getters who are now just takers and no-getters. Afrraid of risk, afraid to hurt someones "feelings."

If your next door neighbor was standing on the porch brandishing a pistol and saying he wanted to kill you, you would call the police right? Unfortunately, there are no "Nation Police" to call. This idiot and the one in Iran are standing on their porch with a pistol and we are trying not to hurt his feelings. Until another 9/11 or worse happens HERE, are we supposed to let it go on. Oh, yeah, as long as it's not in my back yard. Our nation's new ideology. Right.

Derek-V That was like packing 10 pounds of crap into a five pound bag!

Jerry Collapsed:

Aha.

A tour and deployment in these barbaric countries would open your eyes, and much appreciate the Military who serves us, willing to die for your Freedoms.

So... a monster sized thread was spawned by a token internet "you didn't learn much because you can't spell...".

It takes massive imagination to insinuate that is an attack on military vets. I am one... whoop, ouch, I was so offended. The very fact that a totally immature "must not have learned anything" comment can translate into "veterans suck" (I guess was the interpretation?) should surely be a sign to vet or non vet alike. There is no such thing as an auto attack on a vet nor the "American Way" or whatever conjured up insult you want to bring to the table. There is only EXPLICIT such attacks. If you think a 12 year old spelling response is tantamount to anything else than just that... well... who is the bigger idiot? I mean honestly...

PS... nobody ever fought over 12 year old internet comments... it isn't "American" to flame on either side...

Hawaii2 We'll be fighting for our freedoms and dying right here in USA trying to defend our freedom before too long. The threats to our ultimate freedom are right here and right now! Maybe we'll at least have the option of geographically dividing the USA like Korea and Nam.

To all of you here thanking Brian and a couple of others. Thank you! That said you should be thanking all who have served whether in peace or war. Since the Revolutionary war until now for their sacrifice. I served in the USMC for 6 years. I was proud to be a Marine. Although I did not serve in combat being a sandwich Marine. (sandwiched between two wars, Korea and Vietnam). My father served in the Navy in WWII as a Sea Bee. Both of my grand fathers served in the U.S. Army in WWI. While I appreciate that Brian and others served and are due recognition lets not forget all of the others who served also. Not just one day a year on Memorial or Veterans day, but EVERYDAY, because we have our freedoms and their protection everyday.

archangel: you included me in a group as somehow "not understanding." maybe because i didnt mention that i was a marine from four generations of marines? That my father refused a four year university scholarship to enlist as a marine the same day the North invaded? He also refused to live anywhere but soCal because anywhere else reminded him of the cold mountains of Korea...but: how does Brian's service take away from the fact that he sounds insane? Most marines I know, including those who have been in combat, dont want to kill anymore...they want to fish, hunt, chase girls and drink a beer or two. So: I dislike the skewed image that some supposed vet puts forth. He sounds psychotic. The USA was never meant to be an aggressor country, nor were we meant to be involved in wars in other places. I never get tired of showing people the book written by Smedley Butler, two time Medal of Honor winner and USMC hero: http://www.warisaracket.com/ This guy knew what he was talking about, and so did Eisenhower.

Lucy ur #2.99 post.. IN A PIG'S EYE. The United States will NOT turn into two nations, and if you think so.. you just go south... way south... either until your nose is covered by the Oil Slick .... or you join the exodus of Aliens who think they can Divide and Conquer. Don't you even think that is an option.... well, if you know how to think, that is. If not, get outta the way so we wont trod over you when you run back outta range whining and wringing your hands.

>fought to DEFEND or country, when you were thousands of miles away in a different country attacking THEM.<

So you would rather the wars fought to keep free people free be fought on OUR soil??

SecondSight First off, I happen to live in Fl second I would never want to see this country divided into two, but it you cannot see that this country is being destroyed from within then you are living a life of denial. If you don't think we are slowly losing our rights, then you are just the type this administration depends on. This country is more divided than you think. As far as the geographical comment, I know that would never be an option, but it did get a rise out of you.. No, it would never happen. And, your last comment of getting out of the way etc.. sweetie, I will defend myself and family til my last breath. I would not just and be trod over by the communist and gestapos! This administration being controlled by George Soros is all about conquer and if you don't think so you are in for a rude awakening. Which side would you be on?

Omnipotus In response to your comments below. Of coarse I don't want a war here, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. What it boils down to is that This current administration is taking away our freedom. The same freedom you and many other military people have risked their lives defending. Thank you for protecting us from foreign enemies, we now need protection from domestic enemies.

>fought to DEFEND or country, when you were thousands of miles away in a different country attacking THEM.<

So you would rather the wars fought to keep free people free be fought on OUR soil??

Thanks Tyler

Nah... he wants to invade South Korea because he got an iPhone 4 that keeps dropping his calls when he phones to complain about the reception.

...keeps dropping his calls...

Can he even make a connection in NK? Do they even have towers? Maybe he just needs to increase his range by extending the string length between his iPhone and hell?

They only have one tower, but it is mounted on a truck and follows the dear leader around wherever he goes.

lol. maybe he's holding out for the white one.

He plays with the white tower every night!!

A south Korean war would be devastating to the LPGA- who would win the tournaments.

I actually dread "MASH II", or "MASH, The Next Generation", or any kind of bad MASH series should we go there. You know they would find a way to put Alan Alda into it. :P

George,

I appreciate you railing against the people who are insulting those who disagree with Brian. I for one am wondering where your contempt is for those whoe are viscerally attacking Brian and those on that side of hte argument?

I appreciate YOUR service as well.

The thing I have realized is everyone has an opinion and everyone thinks theirs is correct. If they didn't they'd get a new one.

I actually dread "MASH II", or "MASH, The Next Generation", or any kind of bad MASH series should we go there. You know they would find a way to put Alan Alda into it. :P

I am big M*A*S*H fan myself. But I hope to God our country will not have to go threw that again.

Every person who is ex-military is not for war, especially those who really served...

and the contempt and the disrepect that Brain and others show for the People and the present Commander in Chief is unacceptable, If Brian were truly ex-military he would know that he has to keep his Military cool..doing the time I served it was unacceptable to act in manner this guy or gal is acting, I strongly doubt he or sheis ex-military highly unlikely, unless this is a part of the new military and if it is we are in trouble...

My understanding is that last anyone knew, there were precisely six Internet connections in North Korea, and they are ALL Kim Jong Il's. But, what do we expect from the man who has entire movies made just for his sole enjoyment? He has young women in uniform serving as traffic cops, standing there on intersections completely devoid of traffic, waving their arms. I guess that's what they get to do in order to 'earn' their gray cinder block apartment (interior, not exterior) and monthly food ration!

If you ever have the opportunity to do so, take a good look at a nightime satellite photo of the Korean Peninsula. It's very easy to see exactly where the DMZ is. The south is well light, the north is black.

Most people have no idea whatsoever just how lucky we are not to live like the unfortunate souls in the so-called Democratic People's Republic of (North) Korea, who probably all think the rest of the world lives exactly like they do, because they are prohibited from having any connection to the rest of the world whatsoever!

well as a civilian we are free to say the president sucks. and this president sucks even worse than the last one.

the deficits have grown exponentially under his incompetence, the economy is collapsing under his leadership or lack there of, and we are being buried in ridiculous legislation like a thoroughly unworkable and ill conceived health care plan and now new regulations of every financial institution except for the main culprits in the previous disaster.

nice work commander and chief. i hope you have a speech prepared for when america loses a number of servicemen in a completely predictable north korean attack.

Yes, since our country does not have the balls like north korea. America is in trouble!

First of all Brian.. Thank you for risking you life for all the ungrateful people in this country. There are still some that are grateful and we want our country back. Sorry you are under attack on this blog. I feel sorry for you having to serve under this one in office and his George Soros driven communist agenda. Protecting this land from within seems to be more serious than protecting it from foreign enemies. If this country is attacked, maybe some of you would sing a different tune. Brian why bother risking your life. So many here don't appreciate it. Let them protect themselves. And then they throw their racial issue in there as well. So sad. BTW to all who chewed Brian up, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Hope you all have a nightmare tonight about war and nobody there to protect you. God Bless you Brian. Get out of the Military and let the chips fall where they may. You hypocrites...hope you all wake up in a cold sweat and screaming tonight.

At least someone hear understands the gravity of this situation. If the US gets pulled into a shooting war between North and South Korea again, things could get very ugly. If the US tries to remove Kim Jong Il from power by force, he is just insane enough to go nuclear. One thing to consider is that the war never officially ended, there was an armistice agreement that stopped the shooting. Technically, North and South Korea are still at war. This means that the US, by virtue of it's treaty with the South is still at war with the North as well. Of course, in technical terms, the Chinese, who are allies of the North, are still at war with the South. If this becomes a shooting war again, it could mean a war between the US and China by proxy through the two Koreas, although there is considerable doubt as to whether the Chinese would come to the aid of the North. If this does become a shooting war again, the best move for the US would be to try and immediately overwhelm the North, not play a political game of proportional response. North Korea has the fourth largest standing army in the world, although they are not very well equipped. If the US goes in with the lack of commitment to winning that was exhibited in Vietnam and in Korea previously (as well as several other recent conflicts), it could be a disaster of epic proportions.

JS... alot of people don't realize what you said is 100% correct. That said I do believe that China and the US would be able to find ways to insure that we are not dragged into the shooting... ONLY if that is our desire...

If this is provoked pasted the pulpit bashing stages it's in now this escalates to shooting... I do not think we or anyone else has any other option but to be completely descisive in our action... Jong Il would have to be completely eliminated... he, his party, his army, any vestiges of his rule all would have to be wiped clean. If he gets a chance he would use his nukes (he's itching to do it before he dies anyway) it could be a global disaster of untold portions.....

Now you know why "World Upside Down" commercials have been playing every night on prime time television over the past 3-4 months.

JS in SD, I completely agree.

bnbreilly said "if he gets a chance he would use his nukes (he's itching to do it before he dies anyway) it could be a global disaster of untold portions....." This is the point I'm afraid too many people miss ... KJI is UNSTABLE, yet we keep treating him like we can reason with him like any other national leader. But he doesn't care about consequences, he cares only about his "legacy" or whatever you want to call it. If that means his own people have to die, well, he's already demonstrated that he doesn't care about that. As I mentioned in another post on here, I am hoping that the reason the U.S. has ratcheted up the rhetoric now is that China has finally had enough of the little rat. If, behind the scenes, they have indicated that they will not throw their support behind him, it may still be possible to back him down despite his madness. Otherwise, I agree that we have no other option but to crush his regime quickly and thoroughly. Otherwise, he will take as many people with him as he can, including his own.

I am so sick and tired of listening to the empty threats of Kim Jong II, I say, before he gets the idea of launching, I say, Nuke'em, and end this war for good. I doubt the Chinese would say boo!

I think that if North Korea clearly and without a doubt fired the first shots, China would step back and tell them 'hey, we tried to help you guys out, you're on your own now!'

Anyway, this is nothing new from the North, typical 'little man syndrome' BS.

Brokinarrow, You are correct if NK starts the big shooting stuff again China would back up and tell them you had a chance to listen to us but you chose not to now you are on your own even if it means you lose the war this time. China can not and will not baby sit Kim Jong Ill if he screws up and starts a large scale aggression. There is too much at stake for China who is trying to get established in the free world market system.

I hope that speculation is right.... However, Nukes aren't... If Jong Il and his itchy trigger finger holds off... then joint forces should take his ass out...and that of his mind dead son who's in line to succeed him.... I truely think the best thing for the People of North Korea would be to either merge back to South Korea or become a commonwealth that can be reassimilated back into the Asian Peninsula's society.... These people have been kept in the dark (literally)... There isn't very many there that understand 21st century workings.... If South Korea is willing to guide these people then unification or self government might be something for the future...

Hm. One is tempted to hope that KJI tries some kind of tactical nuclear strike against our naval forces during the exercises. It would give us a "legitimate" reason (if there is such a thing) to nuke them back. Only our nukes are bigger and better-aimed.

It'd still be an international relations nightmare, but it would essentially end the regime in NK. It's hard to govern a slag heap from a slag heap.

I still think NK is a cakewalk compared to Iran, though.

North Korea is "Saber Rattling" Obama. The Leader is testing President Obama's toughness, and quick decisions in this situation.

Will our President immediately react to their threats? This is another instance of testing the waters here in America, for a strong Leader as a President.

Hope he doesn't call for a Summit. Beer? No kidding aside, the world sees the US as weak.

We should be worried. Our President needs to show the world that America he will not put up with threats, having a "Plan A" to deal with NK..

The Soap Opera continues.

I don't get this. Obama is the President of the US, not the entire world. Let these people solve their own problems. We are too involved with foreign conflicts as it is. Let them wage thier little wars and let's stay out of it.

I agree. The United States need to stay out of the N. and S Korea mess. We have enough problems here at home. Not to mention we already fighting two wars that is bankrupting the country daily. We do not have the money or human resoures to be getting involve in another war. We are not the police of the world. President Obama, needs to quietly end these two wars and bring our services men and women home to protect our country. He should not make a big announcement to thje press or congressional members just keep the end date between he and Gates. President Obama and Gates can contact the generals in in charge and said in 48 hours pack up and get out one excuses no delays just do it. This way they will not have to hear from Cheney and daughter, Mc Cain, Palin, Fox and team, right and left wing nuts cases and others fools who will have a view point just like we all have an butt hole. It does not matter because what every this president does in their eyes is going to be wrong. I say let them when they get back into office then they can start another war which is all they(Rebuplicans) like to do anyway.

Think about it this way. North Korea and South Korea go at it. South Korea calls on the U.S. to help them out. The U.S. sends forces to South Korea to begin a campaign. North Korea calls on China to help them out. China sends some forces to "observe", then tells the U.S.: "Pay back that debt you owe us. NOW."

U.S. is looking at some hard times and hard decisions.....

or the us could say ...ummm no we are a libertarian nation not a democrat and republican warmongering nation.

problem solved.

I honestly don't think China will protect North Korea, due to the fact that the US owes China so much financial money; The US is now a asset to China more then North Korea. As for the aggression of both N.Korea and S.Korea, sooner or later the walls will fall and the battle will continue once more like JS SD stated.

Okay I am so sick of this crap now. 'Oh America warmongers', 'all the globle collapse was because you.', 'we dont need the USA to step into our business.' So you know what I say. Lets stop with the aid first... Lets just effectively pull our aid from every country that says, "We dont need america." or blames us completely for THEIR problems of financial strife. Alright start there with the financial aid. After that, lets stop with the military aid... OH THAT MEANS A LOT TO THOSE WHO ARE STARVING IN COUNTRIES TO POOR NOW TO EAT! Well tough luck, you got runny soup not my fault. Lets see how well the world would truly do with out us getting into their business. Yeah our leader is a bit weak on military action, but that isn't a bad thing, because talking out a situation before punching is the adult thing to do. Diplomacy first, all of the negotiations in the middle, military last. Life is to sacred to throw away....

As for why we have done poorly in the past wars since world war 2... Back then you could determine the winner of a war a lot easier... You had a HUGE ARMY, the head of that army was Hitler who was a very wicked and murderous... Then you had at the time Japan who had commited a very wicked act of war against America with the largest attack on US soil ever conducted and carried out. With this in mind, when we went to war in WWII we fought our asses off in Europe, but when Hitler died and the war ended it was because the leader of the opposing forces were dead, and at the time the rules of war were different than now, if the leader died that meant a lot back then, that meant defeat. When we focused on Japan, we did a couple of bombing missions, and then there was the largest explosion ever known to man that quickly struck fear into the hearts of our enemies and to make a point. We did it a second time. But the USA learned that we cannot become like them, we cannot kill innocent civilians in the engagement of war, and we do our damn best to make sure this happens. So now the problem in todays society is, how do we decide truly who the winner of a war is. Is it when all our enemies are dead if so then we (Humans) should kill every last one of ourselves now and spare the long wait.

I do not believe that in war their has ever been winners... both sides lose and both sides never benifit in the wars. Lives are lost, cities destroyed, crops burned and ruined, and all this is just a small portion. So you guys so quick to jump into a war, yeah if it is for the right reasons sure, and I agree a direct attack on us is truly a good reason, but violance only begets violance, and death only begets ore death... If Jong Il uses nukes i garantee you that China will not say anything, and we wont use nukes because if we did use nuclear weapons IN the borders of NK than China would most definately get involved because they would deal with the fall out of the nuclear blast. You all want to kill so many innocent people? I fear I place to much faith in man truly....

Indeed the greatest weakness for mankind is fear and the false hope of power for security. I don't understand why people hate the United States...when the reason why US is in other countries business is because those countries gave them the power of the world finances and trade openly to insure thier own countries personal growth. If United States wants to get into this war they would do it perfectly in a way that they will not be at fault if they do, US goverment is indeed smarter then we all think...and with that there will be a refreshment of recruited troops. We all seen the enrollments because of 911, just imagine if we were attacked by a nation not radicals...remember US attack the north vietnam first by helping the puppet democracy in south vietnam, it would of been a whole different war if they attacked us first...there would not be no protest and opinions by the people of america. It would be unwise for people to think with the war in afganistan that america will not be able to handle another if their not at fault.

US will make sure they will not be at fault in this one or not even join, And indeed there is no winners in war...but indeed you can profit out of it like the USA did after WW2 as time goes by. Only reason why US economy is declining is because they let capitlism go free without limits for decades. The old admistation was smart to have taken loans from China to keep them neutral...but in all truth, it is we as humanity who let all this happen for materialistic dreams and power...and we are indeed in this war or any war in the world if we like it or not. I just hope for our sake, we pick the right path to leap us up in the heavens and not that of extinction of another civilization in the universe.

>if North Korea clearly and without a doubt fired the first shots, China would step back<

That's what the smartest general we had at the time (MacArthur) thought as well. Was so convinced the Chinese would act rationally that he went to the Yalu and we all know the result. The Chinese felt "threatened".

JS.....We were never at war with North Korea. It was a "police" action.

dudogger

Nice handle....if everyone put your amount of analysis into other's comments, the blogs would simply be a "duh-fest."

@Omnipotus - True, but there are a LOT of differences between that time and this one. For one, the Chinese are MUCH more heavily involved in the international arena, economically and politically. Two, the entire world has been telling the North to knock it off, and even China is growing tired of their shenanigans. Also, China knows they have nuclear capabilities and they know how much damage any fallout in the area would cause to their land and people.

Mark...North Korea is like a spoiled child who knows that more and more of ordinary North Koreans are dying from hunger. Check your facts. And, they are inheriting to the far north in North Korea many of those expelled from other countries which doesn't help the plight of North Koreans who are dying from malnutrition.

A111...The question isn't "Why" do people hate the US. The question is "how" did the US become such a hated nation? For the answer to that one all you need to do is take an unbiased look at how industry in the US came to be so powerful that a single financial meltdown in the US would have taken down banks all over the world. We came soooo close my friend. Too too close. Let's hope and pray that 2008 never happens again.

It appears that some of you who wear or have worn the uniform of U.S. service personnel here feel entitled to special privilege because of your service. Relative to the history of all mankind, you are nothing special - at all. You have been trained to disregard your own beingness and sense of decency to such a degree that everyone who opposes you, in word or deed, becomes your enemy. You carry a bible in one hand and a .45 in the other, never once able to see the inherent conflict between God and country, blurring them into a single ugly mass of ultimately un-Christian and inhuman behavior. I know the vast majority of people don't think like me in this country. I'm in a percentage so small that it might be hundreds of years before others have my same sensibilities, if ever at all. But I have the vision and forsight, I think, to understand what our descendents will think of us at this point in history, and that's why I write these words. Hopefully a few rationally thought-out words will survive us and show that we weren't all like you, even if our numbers are few. I don't care if I ever live to be proven right. I can only imagine an everlasting sense of eternally-living satisfaction if humankind or whatever intelligent life follows us proves me right, if life is fortunate enough to continue on this planet at all. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. You think it's a nursery rhyme? How quaint.

Ellen, I am onboard with you. Why is any of this our business? This nation cannot even solve its own problems, and look to what our current wars have accomplished? What? Trillions of dollars for what? During Bush's wars, European newspapers were calling this nation the bully nation, and Duhbya the bully prez? And, regardless, mass murder and mass murderers are evil!

All this nation does is war. Every few years, we bleed out a generation of this nation's least advantaged and poorest young people, calling them heroes, freedoms, glory. Kids, really. History has proven, over and over, warring breeds more wars. All because of brainwashing. Even the soldiers of WWI, finally figured out, they had been brainwashed to commit murder. They called it "stuffing for the head" and "eye washing". They comprehended. They figured it out! Why does this nation love to war so much!!

The top German commandant of that war said, even if they lost the war, it would be "wonderful" and "glorious". And millions of the peasants children died. Not his children, of course! We have not evolved beyond this unnecessary, needless war that happened a century ago!! More stuffings for the head.

Why not strive as hard for world peace, and it begins with us.

There is no gravity to the situation. North Korea nukes South Korea. United States nukes North Korea. End of situation. If I'm ever a South Korean, I might lose some sleep over it. Then again, maybe I wouldn't. After all, the North has been spouting the same rhetoric for decades. He's the little dictator that cried wolf. Same with the Iran-Israel nonsense. Some of you forget your allegiance, and it makes these awkward situations seem more important than they really are for you. The United States will endure. That's all that really matters.

Ellen:

North Korea is "talking" to us, South Korea, and the President of the US. Don't overlook the fact "why do we have to get involved" attitude.

This attitude makes trouble for everyone, including the very direct target, South Korea, the US, and mostly how will Obama react to this situation.

In the meantime, they are fully equipped with an arsenal of nuclear warfare. Do you want to see the NK's. on our doorstep, just like the Terrorists of other countries.

To be blase about a nuclear warfare country, will find you, and all of us caught by surprise. Pay attention to threats. No one paid attention to the Nazis marching through Europe.

Where there is "smoke, there is fire". Just remember these words.

I am so sick and tired of listening to the empty threats of Kim Jong II, I say, before he gets the idea of launching, I say, Nuke'em, and end this war for good. I doubt the Chinese would say boo!

While we are nuking them. Lets nuke china as well! So we won't have to buy cheap crap at wal-mart or anywhere else!

@ewent "Indeed." But unfortunely another collapse of the market will most probably happen again, and its all gonna happen first with California since it is the majority of US income, And ends with China's choice of what to do poltically since they are the main share holders of US money. I say this cause my aunt works for a chinese credit company from beijing who bought out the US company, and many chinese companies have moved to california to ensure the main income of the US is secured in case things go wrong. China will not have nothing to do with Korea nations in general, but if anybody touches assets of China's prosperity, they will definite defend their money (USA) with force. And China aint affraid to show military power to the world no matter how close tensions are by thier border, they are waiting to show it. Remember, some of the greatest Generals of the past are Chinese...and If you know chinese, they have alot of pride. Especially in this period of time... Chinese are superstitious and they know the year of the Golden Dragon is almost here, for it is the most important zodiac sign of honor and luck. The best thing United States goverment did was to bond itself with China like "blood brothers" finacially. A tactical move that china cannot debond from. And with this US is still on top of them slightly, but how long will it last? we will find out soon enough where humanity stands...Good look to us all.

The Bible brings out Scripture of these things happening in the"last days" I am sure something may come to pass but that is I do not know I am not one to predict the future, but one thing I do know for sure and that is The USA is a God fearing country and God is with us no matter what. The Lord will be with us.

Hawaii2 what you said above is so true. You said "Pay attention to threats. No one paid attention to the Nazis marching through Europe." Well there are so many threats to us right here in our own country. George Soros and this Administration are one of the biggest threats we have. And they are already on US soil. Since this guy in office isn't defending the US from enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC, who will come to our aid. You said: "where there is smoke there is fire" Well the smoke in DC is so thick right now I guess it has blinded so many that they can't see the fire.

Dennis Turner this country has thrown out the one true God. Obama is the god. I pray we do not turn on Israel. If we do, God will turn His back completely on this country. Jesus come soon. And for those who don't believe, I pray your hearts will change.

I'd sink a South Korean ship for an iPhone...

proud American, you are...

A dictator is a bred in the bone power freak. When people are starving as they are in North Korea, they will do just about anything including following a leader who provides a glimmer of hope of something better.

Keep this in mind the next time a bus load of big mouth right wing dictators start with the bullying. All we need is one to ascend to the White House and you'll be as hungry as most North Koreans.

since the cease fire between n & s korea china has a protection treaty with the north and the south has the same treaty with the US so you are probably right in your wonderings

China needs to get a handle on N. Korea since they will be the first beneficiaries of the mushroom cloud. I would think the U.S. should stop being the bad cop and let China know that this is their problem.

Exactly, and I think China's patience is getting thinner every day with the North. If the North ends up firing the first shots, they'll find themselves all alone against the wrath of the world.

I'm just curious how NK can say their sovereignty is violated if no ever sets foot on their so-called sovereign territory? That statement makes about as much sense as everything else that stunted runt Kim comes up with!

Ed.... Have you ever seen a 2 year old through a tantrum..... That's North Korean government....

Jong Il thinks if he yells loudly enough about being violated someone will actually believe his tantrum..... Only bad thing is you really can't ignore this two year old because he holds his finger on Nukes.....

Good point!

Unfortunately the only thing the sawed off little runt will understand is the most unexceptable of the solutions. That being to nuke him back to the stone age. And no I am not advocating that just noting that is all he will understand.

China would not join NK regardless of who fired the first shot. They might go to the UN and complain or something like that, but they know where their future lies, and it is not with some small backward country.

I'm just curious how NK can say their sovereignty is violated if no ever sets foot on their so-called sovereign territory?

sadly, Kim's idea of sovereign territory is a 1000mile circle around his head. Even a sneeze in S. Korea is offensive to him. The little runt probably wont do anything with his tantrums, but if he starts throwing things...

The real issue is how is China going to respond if this escalates into open warfare. Especially considering their extensive investment in our national debt.

Country External debt

US dollars Date Per capita

US dollars % of GDP

World
56,900,000,000,000
31 December 2009 est.
8,422
98%

United States
13,450,000,000,000
30 June 2009
43,758
94%

China
347,100,000,000
31 Decembe 2009
260
7%

Anyone see a problem here?

America has denounced the Constitution and replaced it with incontinence. Any American that supports an illegal banking system i.e. (The Federal Reserve Bank) is no better than the treasonous Congress whom support it and those who approved it into law in 1913. Ignorance is not an excuse for inaction. America has lost its spirit and will certainly self destruct in the near future.

So.....FedUpAmerica.....did you make your own tinfoil hat or is that one you bought? I fail to see your connection between the constitution and the Federal Reserve. You did not do too well proving your argument there, and came across as very nutty.

The America that you say has lost its spirit.....is that the same America that I live in? The America that I live in has a crap ton of spirit. Spirit enough for our service members to serve on three, maybe even four or five deployments and continue to plug away and carry on. The America that I live in contains citizens that, even when their economy is in the tank, continue to claw their way up and do what's right, even when they are down. The America that I live in...the one that apparently you do not.....continues to perform humanitarian missions to countries wreaked with disaster, even in the face of its own.

You, my friend, live in an America that is clearly somewhere south of Tahiti or some such, because the America that I live in hasn't lost its spirit.

Right on George!

AR...It's unlikely that North Korea has a secret agreement with either China or Russia. There is too much fear in North Korea that China will invade and take over their government. China is now and always will be North Korea's most feared enemy. As for Russia, China would put stop to anything Russia would do in terms of alliance with North Korea. And right now, Russia no longer has the financial might it needs to do it anyway.

George-658661

Before you allow your "ass to overload your Mouth, One needs to be informed, and evidently you are not. Take your ‘back handed crap,” and slap yourself silly. You personify my statement with your ignorance. I love how some of you exploit my brothers to justify your ignorant views, furthermore you are not the Patriotic American your media makes you out to be. It is information you are lacking. Here are some hints in my previous post:

The Federal Reserve Bank

Illegally Approved it into law in 1913.

Here I will make it easier for you: the Federal Reserve Bank is the war machine. It is an Adobe PDF, you do have Adobe.

http://www.freewebs.com/rumorsconspiracybooks/Folder1/The%20Federal%20Reserve%20is%20PRIVATELY%20OWNED%20by%20Thomas%20D%20Schauf.pdf

Reread your notes from Dictatorship 101. When you have trouble at home and your people are starving and unclothed, focus their attention on another country, preferably a neighbor. Look at Hugo Chavez, picking a fight with Colombia. Kim Il Sung is employing that strategy here. Fortunately, wars don't usually result from those shenannigans.

Hitrler was different; he really thought he could rule the world.

Read a book every now and then. Russians have had cold relations with North Korea for decades now. After leaking them their weapons program, Russia has spent years trying to undo the damage. It's also not 1950. China is closer, and more intertwined, with the United States than the backwater hicks in North Korea. China is also not an aggressor-state, and hasn't been for thousands of years. That leaves North Korea all by themselves in the event they start a conflict. That's why they are afraid of their own shadows. They have the world's major nuclear powers on their border and they know they're expendable today.

Did you know your buddy obama wants to cut are nuclear wapons in half? That would be bad move!

Did you know your buddy obama wants to cut are nuclear wapons in half? That would be bad move!

LoL, Is there a difference in 5500 nuclear missiles and 2250?

OMFGBBQ!! We only have enough Nukes to flatten the earth 10 times instead of 20.

hasnt anyone noticed, the world is in economic chaos, it is time for a war. it has happened more than once in history and it is about ot happen again. but war, especially when china and the u.s. are on the same side. north korea is gonna have a real problem if they do anything really stupid.

2750 is half of 5500 ,not 2250 (you'd only have enough nukes to flatten the earth 9 times at that point).

FedUpAmerica,

Ok you crackpot, the link you posted was written by Thomas Schauf. Do you know who that is? You would, he's a crackpot just like yourself. Look him up and see what he's written, and then look in the mirror and with a straight face, tell yourself "I should listen to this guy and take what he says as fact" without laughing. If you actually buy into what this guy has written, which apparently you have, then I cannot help you. Tom Schauf is the EPITOME of tin foil hat wearing. Post FACTS, not any old drivel you found on google plOx, thxbye

I know its like wanting a big I'm sorry with a cherry on top from the Taliban, and Bin laden for killing over 3000 people. Ridiculous

Hey, wait a minute! Don't kill the messenger (Clinton). It's the south that is asking for the apology.

This girl would love to see the ROKs head north. Crap, when I was there (80-81) we (US Army) thought we were there to protect the ROK from going north. There's no love lost between these two.

US Army (Ret)

I agree---the hell with an apology...they did it the world know that they did it so blow NK straight to hell & if China doesn't like that then they can come and get some also...If any nation thinks NK is worth a nuclear war then lets do it & get it over with...We need a recall vote on obama to put some one with balls in the white house even if it means that person needs to reenstate the draft to get the man power to do that what this country needs to do not only with the NK but with Iran and the whole dam middle east...

ant-2056191 that is a very bad position to take. Why would we needlessly begin a war and cause the deaths of millions? When I was stationed in Okinawa I had several friends who were part of the intelligence sections. We know the NKs have the boarder lined with every weapon they can muster including chemical weapons. Initial estimates are 80% initial casualties for American personael and higher for the South Koreans. Also consider the fact that Kim will commit every man woman and child in North Korea to battle. That is going to require a massive draft, one that you will get to be a part of. Ive done my time in Iraq and Afghanistan already so I really don't feel like fighting a war in Korea as well. Those two were a cake walk in comparison. As far as nukes go, using them would be absolutley stupid. I am certain the South Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, and Russians would all have a very big problem with a nuclear strike in that area. That would cause irreperable damage to our reputation around the world. We used nukes once before we knew the full effects of the weapons. We now know the effects and also have much bigger bombs. The radioactive fall out would harm our allies as much as our enemies. Not to mention the Russians and Chinese may just see our ICBMs as a nuclear assault on them, and in turn wipe us out. Nuclear weapons are a shield, not actually meant to be used. The Chinese are going to have to be the ones to take care of North Korea. Besides they have already shown signs that they are getting sick of the North's bullsh&t.

I have a strong feeling that China will not get involved if North Korea starts the war. What a better way to accelerate the US military's strain and wear/tear. Iraq and Afghanistan are already causing a strain on our budgets. What do you think the 3rd war will do?

I bet China will do the same stragedy that worked for them since the last 2 US-led wars. Have the US do the grunt work and topple over regimes. Once its been cleared, China will sneak in through the back door and swipe up all mineral and natural resource contracts.

America should pull out of South Korea and let China deal with North Korea. China would have to control North Korea and hold their leash to stop them from attacking South Korea. Presently, China is using our dime to keep the penninsula calm. China wouldn't want a rogue state taking over the area any more than we would. Of course this option would not be very politically correct to implement.

Rik24...I am sick to death of people like you with your partisan bias. How fast do you think FDR would have been able to get people back to work if he had a bunch of rabble rousing naysayers constantly nitpicking him apart and doing all they could to remove him from office?

Mrs. Clinton is smarter than you ever will be. She doesn't do that stupid swagger, swagger boom boom Bush was dancing to Cheney's tune. We need both genders to do the job that the Bush disaster caused. Get over it. Your party lost.

You were in the military and yet your attitude of standing behind the man chosen for president stinks to high heaven. Don't go flag waving with a militant attitude when you would sooner remove this party from office so we can go back to the McCarthian (read Rovian) bullying we had for 8 years.

Either you stand with the rest of us Americans behind this president or you can stifle until some day in the far, far future your right wing, neoconservatives manage to find a candidate who can dupe the entire country like Bush did.

ant, just how many wars do you want to be in?? While I strongly believe we have to prepared to react if either NK or Iran ever decide to make good on their quite frequent "lake of fire" threats, I also believe we have to always seek diplomacy before putting boots on ground anywhere. It's always bothered me that we made more of a diplomatic effort with Afghanistan, a nation whose recognized government had allowed their country to become Terrorist HQ, than Iraq a nation that had a very dangerous man as the leader but which was not a dire threat in '03, ESPECIALLY when getting involved with them meant FAILING to finish the justified job we started in '01 in Afghanistan!!

FredfromNC...I just finished reading two books about how the alliance between Iran and the US started and North Korea's early history. North Korea has always been a country that felt alienated from the rest of the world because of its huge levels of poverty. It looks at its neighbor, China, and see it grabbing more and more from US wealth and wants in on that gravy train. As for Iran, they never were our enemies until Israel was allowed to go nuclear with the US's blessing. We tend to forget that it was the US who dethroned Iran's Shah when things didn't go our way in Iran.

We didn't dethrone the Shah we helped him come to power. President Carter was duped into thinking the Ayatollah A$$ahollah would be a kind and wise old leader who maybe had a few eccentric ideas about Islam by a two year media campaign that started in 1977 that showed how "oppressed" the Iranian people were under the Shah and how they "yearned for freedom" and how the wise and gentle (all he did was pray,five times a day!!) Ayatollah A$$ahollah would be the leader of a free and peaceful Iran. It was remarkably similar to the Dick Cheney thoughts on Iraq (that we would be welcomed as "liberators") and required a lot less effort on our part. So we withdrew any support for the Shah which allowed him to be overthrown,along with the fact he became terminally ill about the same time. Imagine ol' Jimmy's surprise when instead of welcoming the U.S.'s role in allowing the Islamic revolution to occur the "liberated masses" began having daily (government mandated) "Death to America" rallies. Then when President Carter refused to turn the terminally ill Shah (he was at the Mayo clinic) over for "trial" (in a rare display of backbone) the Iranian "revolutionaries" over ran our Embassy and held our diplomats hostage for 442 days. NONE of that had anything to do with Israel (although they would occasionally add a "Death to Isreal" chant into their "Death to America" rallies).

The first sentences should have read "We didn't dethrone the Shah,we helped him come to power in 1953. We just didn't help him stay in power"

Rik 24, What should Hillary have done, declared War?. I'm an Air Force Vet, with over 30 years of services, and a Korean Conflict server. It easy to start a war, talk is cheap but just remember who will be serving it. I'm over 70, so I won't serve, but my three sons, and some grandchildrens will ,because they are in there, now. We are not a weak Nation, and history has proven that fact over and over again. Yes, we are fighting 2 wars, but if we have too, we will rally and fight 3. America is a country with a lot of guts, and we will all put our life on the line and service our country, but if we try to reason first, that's good damn sense. I'm prejudice when it comes to the U. S. Air Force, I always thought we were the best of the bunch, but your comment about Hillary makes me wonder where you served. The woman is a damn good politican, and she represents America well; don't get party "dunk" mixed up with sound judgement . N.K. is a country with a fool in charge, so we have to think of the cost to us before we jump in and act like a fool, too. Once we are committed, we are in it for the duration;, check out our other two wars, and you may notice we are still in Korea, I have a grandson there, now. Bet you remember we were there in the 50's, a lot of years, huh.

FredinNC...Read the Book Safe For Democracy...You'll see how in error your post is. The problem most Americans have is that we see and hear only half of what we are allowed to see and hear. That "classified" information never is divulged until years after.

In 1953, to clarify, Kermit Roosevelt, a known Arabist who served in WWII OSS directed the coup that restored th young shah Mohammed Reza Phalavi to power in Iran. This Roosevelt served as secretary to Averell Harriman and George H. Walker (Bush's grandpappy) on the board of the American Ship and Commerce Corporation. Records show that George H.W. Bush from 1976 to 1992 poured weapons into Afghanistan using Pakistani intelligence to make secret deals through the shah's Iranian police cooperation with Shiite Ayatollahs. Later, in 1997, the Shah was overthrown and the new Iranian government cancelled $8-10 billion in business with US contractors.

So..you can clearly see the backroom deals we never know about contribute to the global enemies we make.

The book you're quoting is FICTION. My posts while flavored with my OPINION are based on FACT. George H.W. Bush was the director of the C.I.A. for less than a year and done as of January, 1977. There would have been absolutely no reason to have any involvement in Afghanistan until 1979 (when the USSR invaded) EVEN IF HE HAD REMAINED at the Agency!! The Shah's Iran never would have been involved with anything to do with Afghanistan AT ANY TIME BEFORE THE SOVIET INVASION, nor for the matter would the Ayatollah. Afghanistan is a nation of Sunni Muslims,Iran Shias. They are enemies who are only willing to join forces against "infidels" (everyone else, but especially anyone who seeks to deny them their right to remain Muslims). The reason we don't know about those "backroom" deals is because they are fiction!!

obama administration and the liberal mind set at work. hail to the chief.

FedUpAmerica. You are not an American are you? You made some statements about the US is going to fail very soon. Are you by any chance George Soros whose agenda is being carried out by this current admninstration to wipe out middle class america and dictact over the poor.

obama administration and the liberal mind set at work. hail to the chief.

Another obama wack job supporter!

Rik24...The problem with most 70 year military men is that they don't like change. Would that the world could remain in the golden days of the warmongers of the 1940's and 50's. Too bad we now have a younger generation that needs our guidance and our help to run a government that suits their present lives and that of their children. Grow up. This isn't 1950 when kids had to live through the fearmongering of air raids in church basements and people spending thousands to build bomb shelters.

Your president needs your support if you can't do that you can move to North Korea where you'll have no choice but to support your leader.

They are already in the dark ages, boat. Seriously. Have you ever seen a satillite picture of North Korea at night? Their military establishment doesn't care, and we didn't exactly kick their ass the first time around so why should they?

We were kicking their asses until China got involved and Truman was too much of a punk to let McAuther run the war.

Exactly, if China hadn't stepped in we would have been fine and there would be a united Korea today. If it happens again though, I'm pretty sure the north won't be able to rely on Chinese help the second time around...

This is part of Truman's legacy..... He had the nukes and just like Jong Il he had that "Mine Mine Mine" attitude when other's tried to tell him how things should be done.... namely MacArthur....kinda of like Bush Senior in the First Iraq war... We had Saddam then.... bu tthe coalition governments didn't want to go 'too far'... Bush should have listened to his advisors and Colin Powelll and said hell with it and ended the mess then and there... however, hind sight being what it is.... you all know the rest of the saying....

We are stuck there now and the problem was the same then, Iran. Wipe out Iraq and Iran takes over and there are no Gulf states to stop them. We are not playing Battleship. The coaltion we had then was opposed to the destabilization that would have followed deposing Saddam.

Wyatt Earp Bush did not undertand that and he "broke" it. We have now owned it for 8 years and can only hope to get out. Hasn't helped gas prices any has it?

joem,

Hasn't helped gas prices any has it?

it wasnt supposed to. dont you remember, it was all over the press; we were not there for the oil.

You think the Chinese will stay out of it? haaa ha ha, Who do you think is pulling little Kims' strings?

I lived in China for almost 5 years. My wife is Chinese. I can definately tell you that China would not back NK. Most people I talked to over there think he is crazy. Also everyone there loves the US and knows that their future is with the west, and they are not going to risk that for NK.

Also, everyone in China has one goal now. Make money. Make more money... They know that if they were fighting against the US, even by proxy in NK, that their economy would tank. So they would do nothing, except for maybe complain.

Jim,

The Chinese people have close to no say in what their government does. Reference Tienanmen Square.

True, but I think that their leaders are at least wary of angering the citizens TOO much. Revolution isn't good for a country, so they'll keep their people as happy as they can while furthering whatever goals they may have.

And at this point in time, backing up North Korea is not in China's best interests.

We were kicking their asses until China got involved and Truman was too much of a punk to let McAuther run the war.

Wow, you are seriously one major imbecile.

Mark - back up your insults with fact please.

Never thought I'd see the day people would be taking Gen MacArthur's side...the man was going start a new World War with Asia if he had gotten his way, and probably nuke half the continent.

I'm not taking any sides, I'm just asking people to back up their opinions with facts instead of shooting off at the mouth.

bnbreilly you are my freind dumb. The first Bush did listen to his advisors. How do i know because my grandfather is Lt Gen William Gus Pagonis. General Schwarzkopf said he didnt want to go into Bagdad because then it would be a military police action after that, and he didnt want a long war he wanted to give the american people something to belive in their country again since he came home from war in the 70s and was spit on. Now if you dont know who my grandfather is he came up with the plan that won the war in 100 hours, he also was incharge of all logistical operations.

Truman was president when I was a child. He could be called many things...but never a "punk". Anyone who'd call him that should know that he'd be more likely to give them a tongue lashing you'd never forget. The reality is that Truman took the job of the presidency he really never wanted. If you read all of the Truman bios, you see clearly his reluctancy. However, in true statesman character, he believed he was serving his country. He was also the target of a failed assassination attempt as many might have forgotten.

>be taking Gen MacArthur's side...the man was going start a new World War with Asia if he had gotten his way, and probably nuke half the continent.<

Nope. Mac stated that we should never get involved in a land war with China. He knew that with their population resources, it would be un-winable short of their total annihilation; Mac knew that we as a country are not willing to do that. Genocide isn't in our genes. That's why we have such trouble in these smaller conflicts, it would take "old fashioned" means to win and that's just not who we are.

You've been watching too much Princess Bride. The man was was reigned in from igniting a land war in Asia and using nuclear weapons to win in Korea. He was the closest we've come to a military coup (not that he wanted to take over America, but simply abandon it's civilian leadership while fighting "his" war) since the birth of our nation.l

I'm sure if N Korea attacted one of our ships our president would give a feverish speach.

I was with you until you made the Obama - Osama parallel. I don't like Obama either, but I'm not about to call him muslim just because he lived in Kenya for a while...

He is a muslim, and lives in the "whitehouse". Where you been?

He is a Christian and is our president. Where have YOU been?

Well since we are considering muslims to be terrorists I consider all christians to be child molesters. BTW I despise alll religion, but of them all christianity is the most despicable. Obama did not ever live in Kenya, is not a Muslim, and even if he were what is wrong with a Muslim being president? I do not recall reading in the Constitution that only white christian men can serve as the president. In fact I recall a little bit about freedom of religion...

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State".

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

I wish for no loss of life, but I wish he would attack an American Naval vessel

Oh so a few missing limbs would be okay as long as they live? YOU WISH THEY WOULD ATTACK OUR PEOPLE?

And you have the audacity to compare the President to a terrorist after a statement like that?

Wtf is wrong with you??

I'll take my suspension or get banned or whatever for this. You are a low-life POS.

I am SO sick and tired of people calling our President Obama bin Laden and other inflammatory names and calling him a Muslim (which he is not) in an inflammatory way. I am also sick and tired of people saying or insinuating that he is NOT an American citizen. GET OVER IT!! He is our President and would not have been elected and sworn in if he were not eligible to be. This is NOT some conspiracy, people. I have never posted anything before, but I have just had it and had to say something. Show some respect, for Pete's sake. The mess we are in is directly related to the previous administration and if you did any research at all (beyond Fox news), you would know that. I am not liberal nor conservative, but just try to follow facts. The facts are--we had a surplus in this country before Bush and his wars and tax breaks for the rich and then we didn't. And all hell broke loose. Pretty simple. Duh...I know a lot of folks will cry foul about this, but it's still pretty simple. I say give Obama a chance to pull us out of the mess that Bush got us into and let's hope and pray that we don't end up in a war with No. Korea (again).

you can't really blame bush for what clinton and the democrats started with nafta. obama is a terrible president regardless of race or religion. i agree, if n. korea did decide to blow us up, obozo would be there behind his mic stand telling us that the new stimulus package will stop the missile from exploding and bring our country out of debt. hitler gave great speeches too.

GET OVER IT!! He is our President and would not have been elected and sworn in if he were not eligible to be

But admitting that he's an eligible president would be like admitting that republicans lost the election. That's like trying to shift without a clutch!

last i heard, clinton handed bush a surplus.

But oh yeah, bill was a bad president because he got a bj in the oval office............ the Republican sponsored $50 million dollar investigation surely was a great use of our money!

And before any of you haters start with"it was because he lied"........any of you guys in that situation would have lied too! Me included.........

If anyone else cares to do the research, since the last half of the 20th century there have been 14 presidential elections, prior to 2008. Republicans held the lead by a score of 9 to 5. Since 1980, that score was 5 to 2. Yet, Republicans generally, and conservatives specifically, do such a good job at the "blame game", that they would have you believe that the Clinton administration - the only Democrat in the last 30 years before Obama, was responsible for all the ills of the world. Yeah, the only President in modern history to leave office with a budget surplus - how dare he do such a thing!

No wonder they were drooling when Obama took office - fresh meat to roast! Did you notice, the blame game started before he was even sworn in! The GOP leadership even told him, his first month in office, that they would not support a single Democratic bill that came through Congress - NOT ONE. So far, they have been true to their word. Sad.

Of course, their hope is that enough people will be irritated by lack of Congressional action (because of filibustering) that they will vote the "do nothing" Democrats out, even though it's the "just say no" Republicans causing the problem. I know, I'm oversimplifying. Did I mention that I'm a Liberal?

You HOPE they attack a naval vessel?! What the hell is wrong with you? My husband, my children's father is serving on one of those naval vessels. MAYBE, 325 sailors on the above named ship will all lose their loves so we can stick it to North Korea. Good Plan, A**hole. Get a freaking life and I pray for the sake of all those sailors and their families that Kim Jong Il is not as trigger happy as you.

Wondering...I agree with your post but, unfortunately, respect for the president is something you won't see much of on the Vine.

Jeff 496-

You are one sick person. Please do not have children.

Anyone who expects the least educated, most narrow minded to know what respect is much less what patriotism is, should remember these people are shills of the RNC that gave us Rice, Rove, Bush and Cheney. On the fringe of that were people like Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Coulter and Malkin...people for whom worship of money is a religious ritual.

If McCain, a military man, had won in 2008, we'd have been guaranteed of yet another war. Why? Because the old men of cold war mentalities who have always hated anyone who was a peace lover, believe war is all that keeps a country profitable. Meanwhile, we have young people on the threshhold of a new future who can't find jobs because some rich boys had 8 years to make tons of profit for the military industries. They never saw a day of action in any war, but they don't mind sending off anyone else's kids but their own to war. Can anyone name a single Bush or Cheney who served action in any war?

you can't really blame bush for what clinton and the democrats started with nafta.

Why don't you look at who drafted NAFTA and got the ball rolling on it - fast tracking it before his Presidency was over -

George H.W. BUSH

Guess we can blame both Bush's

It's not true that no president ever wants a war. If that was true, why did Bush go around the country trying to market Iraq to Americans the first two years of his presidency? And, who has the most stake in profits, when huge campaign debt looms than a president with the biggest military industrialists donating to his campaign? They're donating because they don't want war?

I believe the first President Bush served in the US Navy during WWII, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so!

You're right I believe the first President Bush served in the U.S. Navy during WWII he was a pilot shot down during a combat mission. That had a lot to do with why "W" was a pilot in the Guard.

you can't really blame bush for what clinton and the democrats started with nafta. obama is a terrible president regardless of race or religion. i agree, if n. korea did decide to blow us up, obozo would be there behind his mic stand telling us that the new stimulus package will stop the missile from exploding and bring our country out of debt. hitler gave great speeches too.

I totally agree with you! Please ignore these obumer supporters on here.

I'm tired of the Constitution being perverted; it only serves one group of people, "the Elitist."

The elitists bend and distort our rights, with laws that are un-Constitutional and further empowering themselves with their self serving greed. Our federal government has become the Government that our Founding Fathers fought against. Yet some of you either through naiveté or plain ignorance refuse to accept the fact we are bought and sold like sheep. Open your eyes Americans, Why do you not see what’s going on? These aggressions are not the work of a peaceful and powerful nation. It is the work of powerful opportunists seeking to control your every thought. Just look at the posts on News Vine for example. There has not been one coherent idea that has not been a victim of malice. This is not about right vs. left, Black against white, Muslim vs. other religions. We are being led down a road of self destruction. They have taken our abilities to rationalize, taking truth and twisting it. Look at our Media for example! The real culprits are hiding in plain view through TV’s, radios, spewing self righteous Government and Congress propaganda. Why do you think the Constitution is touched on briefly during school? It is an attempt to further de-educate our children on their inherited rights. And it’s working!

The five First Amendment freedoms:

“A survey conducted by McCormick Tribune Foundation concluded that 72% were able to name at least one of these rights correctly, this fell to only 28% who could name two or more, only 8% who could name three or more, only 2 percent who could name four or five. Remarkably, only one person of the 1,000 interviewed was able to correctly name all five freedoms.”

The only people who can be blamed for the failings of our nation, is our selves. We have disarmed knowledge, arming ourselves with leaderships, sponsored by the elitists. Freedom today is an illusion if compared to the Constitution that was written 234 yrs ago. I’m a Constitutionalist, like our founders it’s time for justice.

Another well founded and erudite argument from an obvious scholar and devotee of Faux News.

You mean CNN?

it has been so drilled into your brain you are willing to accuse someone of devoutly worshiping fox news at any sign of opposition. no evidence or proof, i wont do the same thing you did, but i am willing to say there is a strange pattern in what just happened and what people like rachel maddow do.. atleast people like glenn beck (as emotional as he is) actually show, with evidence, why they believe what they believe.. even if it is wrong, atleast they show why they believe it. just calling them stupid doesnt change anything except piss people off

hate to agree Dakota, but we do have that habit and it goes on both sides. Fox, CNN, and NBC show what their viewers want to see with whatever slant will get more people. This creates 2 sides that fight as much as the Reps and the Dems, with constantly claiming that the other is blinded by the media into propaganda spewing zombies.

Luckily for all of humanity we have Jon Stewart, and Stephen Colbert to give us decent news service without any bias or irrational statements.

Notbob, please tell me that your last sentence was meant to be sarcastic. You do know what channel those two morons have their shows on, don't you?

bluedragon...Go to the head of the line. You do know who owns all of those media outlets, don't you?

Truman had the vision and intestinal fortitude to stop trigger happy macarthur to invade china or wwIII would have occurred in 1950's.

amvet is a moron and warmonger. if us nukes n korea, surely nk would also nuke back s korea, japan and us base in okinawa. Ever heard of mutually assured destruction?

amvet, ________— should not exist today, if only the British had decided to take more extreme measures to end the war! Can you guess what country I am talking about and how stupid your argument is? MacArthur would have brought Russia into the conflict if he had a choice, it's a very good thing Truman could see reason. And also remember China is not at all afraid of our threats to nuke them next, they have ICBMs as well so they can do the same to us. Its called MAD.

Actually, it was Truman's fault that China entered the war. China warned Truman not to send troops too close to the Chinese border with North Korea, but Truman and his advisors did not believe that the Chinese had the resolve to commit ground troops to fight the U.N. troops. They underestimated that resolve. Had Truman actually halted the advance where China requested, the PLA would not have attacked across the border.

Kudos for history, von! Indeed, if we had not been so eager to finish that war and went over the line we might have won. Just another example why sometimes it is better to measure twice, bomb once.

AmVet's is one of the nuttiest of many nutty posts. The people of China ARE employed by the United States. We just haven't paid them yet.

GET OVER IT!! He is our President and would not have been elected and sworn in if he were not eligible to be

He maybe your freaking president but mine! You get over it and get a life! Another left wing obama nut!

you know i'm glad he's someone's leader he isn't mine we could have a trained monkey do what he's been doing he's run up the national debt so high that my grandchildren and your grandchildren & their great grandchildren will be paying for his stupidy and extravance their entire life. but this is america and your entitled to your opinion but opinions are like @$$holes everyone has one

Look Silvertop, I'm neither liberal, nor conservative. I think people should be able to seek a middle ground so that things get accomplished. That being said, if you think Obama, who I don't personally like, nor did I vote for him, is the cause of our debt, think again. Oh for sure he will add between 6-7 trillion in his first term, but the previous 11.7 trilliion was built up by all the other Presidents and Congresses. Bush II added 5 trillion himself, with his last budget adding 1.3 trillion alone. This crisis of debt we have is the combined idiocy of both parties, and neither can be trusted to straighten things out. They should all be voted out of office, and we should elect some true independents and see if they can do what is right. I say get rid of all Democans and Republicats.

hey guy all i'm saying is since b.o. took over the office he's run this nation into debt faster than jimmy (peanut ) carter. as you said your neither liberal or conservative and neither am I. I'm'for the one i think is the best one for the job at hand and he sure isn't the one to do it.the man isn't even an AMERICAN citizen he won't produce his birth certificate to no one.Idon't know if the man served in the U>S>miltary or no not but i doubt it very seriousley.I'll get off my soapbox now so have a good one or a cold one whichever you prefer

Drivel. I just wanted to clarify what you've been saying...drivel.

Mindless drivel indeed, Drastic Urban Measures Blogger!!

Are you willing to go fight for that statement of yours?

Many of us already have.

I'll be Hillary still has a hand print on her face from that NK biotch slap.

Que BHO,,,,time for another speach.

What he means, is that we are going to do our exercises anyway, and the North wont' do a damn thing about it, like usual. Kim is all hot air.

Um, hot air except for that nuke in his back pocket.

You know, Drastic, it's a bit off-topic to say so, but I'm always sort of at a loss when someone asks that question.

What about those who were willing, but whose offer of service was rejected?

Are you willing to go fight for that statement of yours?

YES! And I have.

What have you done for this country drastic? From your opinion, you haven't ever served. Have your ever helped your neighbor? Done Peace Corps? Worked for a charity?

Probably not because you're one of those people with the "Yea me!, Fu@k You" mentality.

Actually, North Korea issues these types of threats before every joint exercise in South Korea. It's really not hard to do at least a little research.

Ippus - Totally right, I just :facepalmed: myself there.

Julie...Rah Rah Rah...Sis Boom Bah..You served in the military...la la la...so...does that mean this country should live in a constant state of war? Is that what you offer your sons and daughters? A future where Hup two three four is the rule and not the exception?

Honey child, I know I am a lot older than you. But, there IS NO WAY I'd have allowed either of my sons to be drafted. I only have two children I worked and busted butt to educate, feed, clothe and put a roof over their heads. I absolutely refused to allow them to fight a rich man's war.

Methinks your Big Daddy spent too much time buying you guns when he should have taught you the fine art of being a real woman...one who gets what she wants by using her brains and not a gun.

Although I hope that this little piss ant is just talking out his lower orifice, the US wouldn't be the only nation responding. The ROK military, JDF (Japan, due to the nuclear threat), Great Britain, Aussie, EU...

If it ever does come to war, the question that needs to be answered is; What will China do? IMO I think they have a lot to lose (with their economy) and that they're not ready to toss that away for this little piss ant.

China need to put a least on this little pug.

No worries Julie, all indications are that they are really starting to get sick of Noth Korea. The Chinese need to take care of this problem, not us.

You know, Julie...

There is a little nagging voice in the back of my mind that believes China has been hoping for NK to push the global community too far. What an opportunity it would be for China then to "take the high road" and not interfere in the newly created Korean peninsula crises, in exchange for.. say.. "WE" agree to the same as China storms its way across the Taiwan Straight!

Not sure if we could do anything about it if china DID take Taiwan now.

So we should back down, huh?

Bob - Actually we have this base in a place called Okinawa with a ton of Marines, Air Force, and Army just WAITING for an excuse to kick some tail... I know because I was stationed there for 2 years :D

websearcher...If you read Shakespeare, you know that the way to weaken a growing power is to continually batter away at it and weaken it. The right wing is doing this very thing to Obama and our enemies do it to our country.

We pledge allegiance to the flag...Of the "United" States of America and to the republic for which it stands, ONE nation, under God, INDIVISIBLE with liberty and justice for all. This is a national prayer we should all say every single day for those who served and kept us free and those who died knowing that their life contribution is honored.

Jackson...You got woman trouble? Seems to me that you forget one little fact. Hillary Clinton was never involved in world affairs other than those that supported women. You can drop the gender bias now.

We got in a mess in Cuba because of men. In particular, the mob that was running Cuban business into the ground and men like the Bushes who owned 11 sugar plantations there and exploited Cuban workers with slime ball salaries.

We made an enemy of Iran when Big Daddy Bush and Reagan plotted the overthrow of the Shah. What a joke. Two men thinking that the guy they replaced the shah with would to their bidding..gee...some men are pretty stupid.

As for Monsanto...Viet Nam never was our war. JFK has been filmed in his Oval Office saying that a number of times. Our involvement with Korea stems from an agreement with South Korea to help prevent a North Korean takeover.

So your tinfoil book alledges Reagan and Bush who were POLITICAL ENEMIES until H.W. decided being the V.P. beat not being in D.C.(in the summer of 1980) at all, OVERTHREW the Shah (in 1979)?? You need some different reading material!! Perhaps you should use your internet resources which will show that what I've stated about the overthrow of the Shah, that the withdrawal of support by the Carter administration (remember they were in charge until 1981) combined with the Shah's illness (which turned out to be terminal) led to his departure,not any tinfoil conspiracy theories. Do you TRULY believe that Reagan and Bush had ANYTHING to do with the Ayatollah A$$ahollah coming to power TWO YEARS BEFORE THEIR ADMINISTRATION BEGAN and that they believed he would "do their bidding" ?? That's one of the most INSANE things I've ever read on the vine and considering some of the vine swingers that's really saying something!!

you don't think any of the rich ciintons or their grandchildren will ever serve do you? unless they go r.a. or enlist in a home grown divison !!! the only action they'll see is on friday & saturday nite

DrasticMeasures... I think your "Alahaha" wants you to become a Martyr for him... Go blow up some innocent bystanders for him to prove some misled ideology...

you sound really jealous. Who are you to say how much any one person should have?

I put the hammer down in my SUV whenever I crank up the Du Hast and Disturbed while my kids sing along. I'm entitled because until I married my English Import Husband, I worked my butt off while driving a POS. I get you, I really do. I couldn't get anywhere because people like my husband believe that if you're stupid enough to get pregnant in high school, you deserve to stay at the bottom of the pond. Their actions smack of "only white, republican, christian men should run this country". BUT, drastic, you can't stereotype everyone. I appreciate the job that Obama does, I study the bible with black Jehovah's Witnesses, shipped my daughter off to the Army this week, shun electricity and the establishment, listen to Enya and Guns N Roses and The Monkees and ICP. I blog on MSNBC until they ban me, then switch to CNN until THEY ban me and then switch again. You can't put ME in a box, I am an American. So shut your ca ca mouth.

shun electricity and ...t, listen to Enya and Guns N Roses and The Monkees and ICP.???

Imbecile.

shun electricity and the establishment. She borrowed the bicycle generator from the Professor (or was it Gilligan?) to listen to Enya,GnR and The Monkeys!!

Drastic,

I personally think you need to shut TFU. Your mindless drival about what's wrong with this country and it's people is unrealistic and stupid. If you want to remain free, maybe you should grow a set and stop your whining. To quote a great musician, if you don't love it, leave it. I think we could all survive much better without people like you complaining about what they don't like and how it should be. Maybe you should live in N Korea. And get an idea of how free you really are. Maybe then you'd have some respect for the people around you and the country you live in. If you even live in the US.

@Sam9952

Maybe you forget that the Constitution guarantees the right to free speech, and that's one of the rights we like to frequently defer to when poiting out examples of what makes our country great.

If you believe that, as I do, then you should not be telling someone to STFU just because you disagree with them, as they are merely observinfg one fo the freedoms afforded to citizens of the US.

Obviously that great musician you mentioned has no idea how this country was designed to work. The US government was designed in a way to allow for those who don't love it, to change it. It was designed for you to be able to voice those complaints about what you don't like, and possibly see those things changed.

So, maybe you should go back and brush up on the US Constitution and what freedoms it brings it citizens before you attack someone for observing the rights said document allows them.

Or are you saying you are against the Constitution?

Devsfan..A country that allows 1% of the population to devastate the other 99% is a country that is a plutocracy. Run by the rich, for the rich and of the rich.

When a tiny segment of a country's population grow fat and too rich and the rest of the country is suffering as a result of that rich man's greed, you bet your cute little "A" we have a right to question how that man got so rich and so greedy. Or, are you saying that Madoff shouldn't be in prison and Ken Lay's wifie dearest had a right to keep money her hubby stole out of his employees' 401Ks?

It is only going to get worse--our elites screwed us. This is a news headline, not a conspiracy theory- anybody read it? http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here%27s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

Rock Finally someone who realizes the TRUTH.

And George Soros and this Current Administration are finishing the job and taking away our freedom besides. We are in serious trouble.

What freedoms have you lost since Obama was elected?

Guess you were just talking out of your fourth point of contact, eh?

Yes, I served, thats why I should be able to give my opinion without you attempting to cull my vision of the situation. Here we go, with the you aren't American enough, because you question our value system stuff. You see, the moment someone has an "Opinion", that is counter to your beliefs you start to question their loyalty and where must they come from. Be a Vet, be proud, have your opinion, as I see it, I did not question your opinion, I simply stated mine and as a Honorably Discharged VET, who served during recent wars, I can say what I want within reason, so, please, I am not moved by protest of how much more American believe you are, or how much more honorable you believe yourself to be. I happen to see things differently than you and from what I note, my comments are not far from the truth, we are an obese nation! We drive large, non economical vehicles in relation to most other countries in the world and the war in Iraq was not done for noble, or just causes, no matter how you want to dress that pig up. I am not against America, the truth hurts and the unrealistic want to remain in a dream scape to avoid the consequence and effects of their actions.

Tell his ass Dramatic!!!!!!! Not every American Vet is obligated to check his brains at the door when he/she visits the VFW.

yeah, along with your spine, drama queen there is no vet, the moron is nothing more then some little kid on dads computer with a copy of websters dictonary, throwing out large words and dribble, hoping to get lots of attention.

Bed wetters and thumb suckers just hate those big words that make them get out a dictionary to figure out they have been insulted. They also hate anyone who can formulate a coherent argument as that violates the wing nut buffoon code of ignorant slogans over cogent thought processes. Thanks for being what everyone is calling you, Moe. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Hey Moe, I call BS on either one of those two ever serving a day in uniform.

Drastic - IF you really did serve, what branch were you in and name one of the companies you were with? You don't have to give your name or anything, but if you actually served this is a pretty simple thing to answer.

Brokinarrow, He'll just google or wiki it.

I love how every on always assumes that just because we aren't begging for a war we arent veterans.

Buffoons can't understand the fact that smart people served their country while they sat on their asses waiting to insult them on their use of free speech.

MarineVet your one of those people that think your always right and everyone else is always wrong. Oh Oh I hear your mom calling she says its time to get off the computer and quit bothering the adults.

100 to 1 says face to face Moe would be rather quiet and respectful around Marine...

jeremy - yeah that wouldn't surprise me. Gotta be careful picking fights with Marines, there are more of us out there than you would think :-D

I am quiet and respectful around anyone I meet ,but that doesn't change the fact that I have seen some posts from (alleged) MarineVet and Drastic Urban Measures Blogger that I have some real issues with and in person might result in some interesting dialogue and if they wanted to step outside due to our differences of opinion I'd be WAY more than happy to. I've NEVER picked a fight in my life (well,I guess I came pretty close in Hong Kong,but it was a MUTUAL disagreement), but that doesn't mean I haven't finished plenty of them!!! 2BCT 1AD OIF 05-06 OIF 08-09

I'm with you DrasticMeasures, MarineVet.

I'm a Veteran also, Some of these Richard noggins are clueless. Lot of wanna be warriors on this newsvine. Kinda makes me question their ability to reason.

Fred G. from N.C. I have some real issues with and in person might result in some interesting dialogue and if they wanted to step outside due to our differences of opinion I'd be WAY more than happy to

You incite more bull@!$%#, makes me wonder if you ever served. You certainly show zero disipline and it would not be tolerated in any part of the armed services. Fookin computer, makes men out of punks.

Drastic...you may be a Vet, but how the heck could you tell what was going on in a ships galley asking the Marine if wants his eggs sunny-side-up?

This 6'2" 215 lb. man would be one of the last people you'd want to call a punk in person. Since you claim to be a veteran yet don't know an Army unit's abbreviation let me decode it for you: 2nd Brigade Combat Team 1rst Armor Division Operation Iraqi Freedom 05-06 (tail ender but that 6 weeks was when we had the most action of any of the three Iraq deployments the Brigade participated in) Operation Iraqi Freedom 08-09 (Full Pull April 2008 to June 2009,including volunteering for Customs detail at the end so the married guys could get back to their families quicker) I've practiced energy conservation for 20+ years and my large non-economical vehicle is a 4 cylinder pick up so I don't need any lectures from chaps like Drastic Urban Measures Blogger or (alleged) Marine Vet who go beyond anti-war (which is a stance they have every RIGHT to take) to anti-American ("The American people are a bunch of rightful idiots" post #12) and when they cross that line I'll be more than happy to step up and speak out!!!

Oh puhlease...My nephew was a Marine. He wasn't one of those bullheaded, bully boys. Real Marines know who they are and never ...absolutely never lose that Marine class and style the rest of us are so proud of.

you know whether or not these people are or are not part of the armed forces, lets remember one thing they do something other refuse to. the get paid peanuts and for the most part dont complain about it. They follow direct orders of people most of you whinny little bloggers voted for, keeping them away from there there families for months and years at a time. Keeping just those two factors in mind, do you really have the gull and audacity to verbally scold them? I mean really??? If you feel the need to do so I would suggest having the proper rank to do so, become a federal agent and put your life on the line everyday. (not saying every soldier puts their life on the line every day) But if you want the ability to speak ill towards a member of the armed forces then live in their boots. Or shut your mouths and speak about things you are actually educated about. And one last thing we all (including myself) can sit here and speculate what the governments and those in the know would do, but lets face it there isn't anyone on this blog that is in that line of work.

Fred G. from N.C. This 6'2" 215 lb. man would be one of the last people you'd want to call a punk in person

see there you go again with ratchet jawing, What makes you assume i don't know What outfit you were in, I could give crap, So I guess you want me to swap Internet credentials with you. hold on so I can go to a battalion freaken web page so I can cut and paste something for ya. shootin nothing but crap. Hell Guess I should be scared of a 215 pd meatball what are u gay, nobody cares about your dimensions or should I say your dementia of some wannabe weekend warrior. It's been my experience that most who profess to be combat vets are usually delusional. Bet right about now your boots are unbuckled and your belts to tight and ur balls a swinging between your ears. yo left! are we incadence?

That would be a no. What's with the gay accusation?? Unsure of your manhood?? No issues here. Love to stay in this skirmish with you KC but I gotta go spend some quality time with my girl before she goes home to visit for a couple of weeks. One last thing, if you looked at the battalion website you'd be looking at a completely different unit. We reflagged after the deployment and 2nd Brigade is now at Fort Bliss instead of Germany.

One final thought,I posted on this thread to provide support for AlphaOneActual who is one of very few people who was willing to step up and call out Drastic Urban Measures Blogger's asinine posts and he's irritated with him for the same reasons I am (and I added "alledged" Marine Vet for HIS history of similar posts that go WAY beyond opposition to U.S. policy or war itself and BECOME ATTACKS on MY NATION and ALL AMERICANS)!! That I will not tolerate and will ALWAYS respond to. Just remember if you stand with the LOSERS you will fall with them, and while that's figurative on line,rest assured in person it would be literal !!! Gotta go...

you mean foot blister, Idle threats lmao, And really i don't give a flyin monkey what u or any other dip@!$%# will tolerate. dumber than a bag of wet potatoes!

Fred, sad, sad, sad. Once again, here is the post from a two time medal of honor winner and a guy who went from private to general as a marine. http://www.warisaracket.com/ you dont have to like it, but the truth is there for anyone to see- especially those who really served.

FedUpAmerica you and anyone who thinks supporting the bashing of America Like (alledged) MarineVet and Drastic Urban Measures Blogger is cool couldn't lay a finger on me on your best days with me on my worst day. Get back to drinking Lattes with your anti-American pals, keyboard commando.

rock, ONE LAST TIME, F**K Smedley Butler!!!!. 2BCT 1AD OIF 05-06 OIF 08-09. I've always respected the dedication it takes to be a Marine and have proudly served alongside U.S. Marines and plenty of soldiers who got their start in the Marines. No issues there, but I don't care if the man got his stars from divine intervention when you start making treasonous remarks you cast a shadow on those who serve as well as your service. I respect General Butler's service but not what he did afterward!!

I personally like bashing moronic self indulged egotists like yourself. It's kind of fun imagining your head swelling up then exploding into mindless threats of intimidation. Truth is you couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag, much less an argument. lmao there you go posting battalion creds. Anyone can claim to be military here let me give you one3/3ACR. one of my many units of service. which was at ft bliss early 70's. Have fun guarding white sands. Watch out for those ADA they don't like Cav units. Unlike you most Vets, don't use their personal experience in the military to bolster their standing in society. I question your so called service because I see all to often these folks using that delusion, for recognition in todays society, and you dishonor the army I serverd many years ago, by your moronic threats..............come get some!

A lot of anger in your key board tough guy. I said the old unit reflagged,which means it's still in Germany, I won't list the new one due to the fact they are about to go into harm's way (again). I will never list a unit I'm serving before I've left it because of OpSec. I could care less is some bitter veteran believes I've served or not. If trying to prove it means putting those I serve or have served with in (more) danger,that's not an argument WORTH winning. If any one dishonors the Army it would be you by trying to pick a fight (on the vine, which is the only place you HAVE A PRAYER of prevailing against me) with one of the FEW PEOPLE ready to stand up and speak out against TERMITES like Drastic Urban Measures Blogger and (alleged) MarineVet (who deserves respect for his service but not his constant anti-American rants on the vine). I explained quite well at least twice my issue wasn't with their RIGHT to be anti-war OR oppose U.S. foreign policy BUT their willingness to cross the line and speak ill of our nation and those currently serving it. But you have to try and show your hope of being intellectually superior by keeping this going. Well congratulations commando,you win.

stfu Fred. We dont have a nation.

you know fred g.from nc. fed up america sounds a lot like a bloger named tyler thats always spewing crap about vets and stupidy but it could be one of his fans.

Taken care of what for who? If you only had a clue.

Oh pleeease, I went before your son(s) and gave twenty years more of my life to the United States government as a law enforcement officer, as well. So, save the chants of holier than thou, because my "Son(s)" will serve. I just hope they really know what they are serving, and what for, instead of that flash in the pan stuff you are spouting. You haven't taken care of anything for me, I went, I saw, I kicked ass and for all the wrong reasons. Save it.

You are truly dillusional and self righteous to believe your self serving statements, motives and actions take care of anything, or anyone outside your little circle of influence.

Thanks for putting down your fellow servicemembers there Drastic, really classy.

GOwls...With all due respect to the military in your family, guess who was there on 9/11 when help was needed? Not the military....ordinary people who saw the devastation most humans never see in a war. So, please...let's not play one upmanship games. It really isn't necessary.

And besides, I'd love to see the new breed of military who are so highly intelligent be put to better service right here in their own homeland.

Why don't you keep your mouth shut ewent. I'm military and I WAS there on 9/11 when help was needed. I lost a few military friends in those towers who were helping. Why don't you konw your facts before letting that nonsense come out of your mouth. You're ignorant.

And how long have you worked for the North Korean propaganda bureau?

People, don't think for a second that NK/Chinese commie rats are not posting this drivvle. MSNBC should require foreign commenters to register with a credit card and charge them by the letter... that will shut'em up.

Thanks, Joe. It usually takes longer for the thumb sucking bed wetters to tear themselves away from Faux News long enough to insult an American Vet and question his patriotism. After all, we should export Democracy to the rest of the world but keep that pesky "free speech" part out of this country. Right??????

Right Joe, it’s the commies or is it the terrorists, maybe domestic subversives. Have you ever considered that just maybe it’s your own corrupt government? Conditioning a naïve underclass with blinded patriotism, and then exploiting their loyalty by sending them to die for some concocted parable. You must wonder who is benefiting from these countless wars, it certainly isn’t you Joe.

Drastic - you should consider moving.

Should we just LET the north have nukes then? What is your proposal to stop the North from developing nukes and using them - Cause Kim Jong Il is crazy enough to do it.

Or your proposal if little kim does physically respond against our troops? If you've truly been in the service (regardless of length) would you just sit there will being attack?

This whole article is about little kim's statement of a "physical response" not a preemptive attack by the south, the US, or any other nation.

I finally figured it out. Drastic is not an American but a foreigner. He uses you and your government or you and your country instead of our and we. When he says you people can't figure it out that says to me he is not American. When he says your country or government it tells me he is not American. Americans use the words our country ormy country when talking about America. They even use the term we Americans not you or your. Ignore the imbecile. I don't know what military he served in but it wasn't American. I served in the United States Marine Corp. February 1959 to February 1965.

It isn't worth anyones time to argue with that piece of smegma. (I mean Drastic) Look that one up in your dictionary.

There is no room for bleeding heart in this world..Get a life on reality

DrastricMeasures may I suggest changing your vine I.D. to Drastic Urban Measures Blogger ??!

Why didn't Bush stop North Korea during his 8 years in office vs. leaving it for President Obama to solve in 18 months???????

Inquiring minds want to know.

Amen

Amen Drastic

Bill Bubba Clinton paid the N Koreans 22 billion to stop building nukes, Bush followed with another 11 billion. Wonder how many nukes THAT paid for?

I have an idea, let Pyongyang bury themselves. Blockade them, cut off all monetary aid, cut off all dialogue, and let the people starve. Tell China not one more shipment of ANYTHING to the US. Maybe they will get the guts to stand up to this freak. Maybe not. Who cares? This freak is a gnat in a sky full of vultures.

what would be your perfect us today if you was president? tell every one how we can fix things drastic

MarineVet - Because he already started TWO wars at the same time and stretched our forces too thin.

poop

First off, Iraq was NOT innocent. And second, we were NOT the only country to believe that fruit cake had WMDs. Most of the WORLD believed he had WMDs as well as Saddam himself. Or do you forget so easily all the sanctions against Iraq by the UN? I for one think Saddam needed to go. I would have been happier if someone just assasinated the SOB, instead of us going to war to get rid of him. Actually, it would have been much better if Bush senior had finished the job first, as the Iraq people would really have welcomed us with open arms then. As it stands, because we didn't finish it the first time, we don't have their trust, which is why we have the issues we have now.

Sam - I completely agree that Saddam needed to go, but the timing and execution could not have been worse. Bush shifted a LOT of resources out of Afghanistan when the push was made into Iraq, which effectively stalled the war there for a long time. If things had been done with a little more intelligence we may have been doing a lot better in Afghan than we are now.

Sam9952 lmao clueless.

You do realize that all sites that were mapped by U.S. Intel where immediately secured by our forces? WMD teams found nothing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/

More Intel

Drastic--

While diplomacy sounds great when you think about it, sure would be nice if we could all just get in a big circle jerk and hold hands and sing kumbaya and everything will be ok. I have a reality check for you though. You cannot reason with everyone, no matter how much you would like to in the perfect world you have trapped in your brain. There are people out there who are still hell bent on power and control of the masses at any cost, and some who don't even want power, they just want to see the world burn. That is a fact. Do you really think Hitler was the last person bent on world domination? Killing him did not eliminate those kinds of people from the world, it only eliminated a handful of them.

Are you still gonna try to reason with them while the nuke they launched is on the way to reduce you and your family and friends into a cloud of super hot molecules? Personally, I would rather kill anyone who is near the button than put that kind of risk onto everyone else.

Take a long look at the history of the region, Drastic. We have been trying to "reason" with North Korea for many years now, and we are not the only ones who have been doing so. What do we have for our efforts to create peace and stability? Sinking of ships and threats of nuclear attack! If North Korea were going to be "reasoned" with, they would have been reasonable this whole time, and we would have NO ISSUE right now. They are being vehemently unreasonable, and now it is a threat to our safety.

We have been trying diplomacy and North Korea will not allow it. That is why we are in this current predicament.

It is amazing that any of you think what is going on in Afghanistan is a "war". You SHOULD be on the horn with your congressman telling them to let our men fight, or get them out. They are in a holding action, that is all the ROE allow. If we were "fighting" we would be sealing the borders, laying waste or jailing the males 17-45 and finishing this thing. It is a joke.

More Intel

Intel Inside? lol!

We just print more money at times of war. It's how we same our economy. Spend, spend, spend kill kill kill.

I suspect the following "War" woul dbe acceptabel to China.

1) North Korea attacks the U.S. and South Korea First.

2) The U.S. responds with massive, narrowly focused attacks on all of North Korea's Airfields, Naval Bases, and Missile sites. But does not invade.

3) South Korea prepares for the Ground war, with North Korea invading South Korea first. 1,000,000 men against the largest minefield in the world. And U.S. Air power.

4) Like a can of raid, we exterminate the little buggers as they come over the wire. Again, WE DO NOT INVADE. We do over the line with ground attack aircraft, Artillery, and missiles, and maybe a few SPECOPS guys. But the Marines and Army dig in and have target practice.

5) When the military is completely destroyed, we ask China to support us replacing fearless leader along the quasi communist/capitalist lines China is in now.

1. China will do what they did during the Korean and Vietnam wars, aid the communists.

2. they would go to the UN the only single organization to have less of a spine than the Obama administration.

3. They would force the UN to bend to their will

4. They would nuke us between points 2 & 3

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But if we pull out all of our aid permanently and let the sawed off midget face his starving people we might be able to sidestep a war. There is no way in H3ll that he will attack a US armada in the middle of war-games. Its best to call his bluff because by the time we get more troops there the DMZ will have been crushed. Its why my Army Vet teacher and his buddies stationed there called it the "speed bump".