What a ridiculous statement PVperson. Have you even bothered to read the actual law? This guy has absolutely nothing to do with the Arizona immigration law.

Republicans don't give a damn. This racist, sexist, homophobic group doesn't pose a threat to them, and helps facilitate the republican agenda.

We need the Federal Government to enforce our current Immigrations Laws.

The Federal Governments failure to enforce the law breeds malcontents like this misguided individual to spread racial hate.

The current Illegal Aliens situation is not a racial issue, its a matter of law that has been ignored by past and foremost the current administration.

@MonroeC

Republicans don't give a damn. This racist, sexist, homophobic group doesn't pose a threat to them, and helps facilitate the republican agenda.

Are you talking about this nazi guy who is doing something productive or the NAACP who is condemning those who are?

wilberta, Please show anywhere or anything that indicates the Tea Party supports Socialism.

Didn't think so.

"...NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY!=NAZIS=TEA PARTY

Americans are so stupid!"

On the contrary. Anyone who can make such an equalisation as the quoted phrase, is beyond stupid.

And lets not forget the Hitler was NOT a socialist... he was a Fascist.

Neonazi apologists and supporters "protecting" the nation. It's sickening.

You know things have gotten pretty bad when we need neo-nazi's to help protect our border. That they have helped and not caused problems is interesting.

What is interesting is that MSNBC chooses to report on a hate group not "hating", while the Black Panther case with clearly illegal activity, goes largely unreported.

This double-standard continues to be tiresome.

clarify! my mom was a black panther party member. i remember food and book drives. health care coordination seminars. housing workshops and summer day camps. ALL OF THE CHILDREN WERE AT THESE EVENTS, so i guess we as children helped to commit BPP crimes! there was always discussion of law enforcement discrimination and police brutality, and if my 47 years of age serve as a time reference, the sh*t that was happening all over the country seemed to warrant some sort of citizen activism to stop the feds and cops from their practice of targeting brown and black ppl going about there daily routines.

this has all been seen before. the rich f*ck up the country and deny WORKING ppl a decent standard of living and the attention is focused on ppl of color to help maintain poor and working class white ppls since of belonging to the overall system.

it's not brown and black ppls fault.... it's the rich who dont give a dammn about any of us.

enron workers are many colors. GM and BOFA workers are many colors. the list goes on, but i wont blame white ppl or colored ppl. just the system that keeps the rich rich!

you aint seen nothing yet...seal that dam border and put an end to this @!$%#...our enemy is within our borders right now..we need to shut the door and clean house

The article states:

"But local law enforcement are nervous given that Ready's group is heavily armed and identifies with the National Socialist Movement, an organization that believes only non-Jewish, white heterosexuals should be American citizens and that everyone who isn't white should leave the country "peacefully or by force.""

There goes the rest of us Americans. I don't know if many have looked around but we Americans look like Mutts. Should we all start packing? lol

Where we are currently living there is a militia leader who looks more foreign then my blond Spanish relatives from Spain who fill in the blanks of my Irish, German and English grandparents. Ha ha! I'm safe! Can't wait to see these haters starting to detain each other.

Don't believe it. If they are there, it is to taint Gov. Brewer's Immigration laws. The extreme Libs or illegal aliens will try any trick in the book to smear her new Immigration Law Proposal. Same goes for Racists who are plants in the Tea Party Movement.

Chuck #1.7

Correct me if I'm wrong BUT Hitler BEGAN World War II. And the economic being suffered by Germany at that time was more a result of the Depression suffered by the US (which affected economies the world over). And Hitler then perfected The Big Lie to distract the ignorant populace from the real problems at hand and lay the blame at the feet of one race. And then used "mouthpiece" to spread his words of hatred and ignorance through out Germany and had his group of thugs to take care of anyone who dared to speak out against him (anyone trying to educate the masses). Sounds nothing like the democratic party in my opinion and maybe you should go back and re-examine your history books.

Chuck M, the nazis came about after WWI, not WWII

I see several things here.

1) Equating the Nazi's and Racists to the Tea Party is no different than what Nazi's, Racists, Socialists, and Communist did/do to anyone they want to destroy. I think making such assertions without any proof is nothing short of HATE SPEECH! Isn't It?

2) I have not time for a neo-Nazi. No one should. They are blinded by hate and rage which they were trained to have. Think about it, someone that bad has the decency to help protect our border that the federal government has failed to adequately and persecutes those who try too.

Here is a video with Mr. Ready and Senator Russell Pearce speaking about the Arizona law

http://www.moonhowlings.net/index.php/2010/05/11/senator-russell-pearce-author-of-arizonas-illegal-immigration-legislation-seems-to-like-neo-nazis/

db akron, right on. you nailed it. Two paragraphs explain our culture and govt.

spider-737231 "Just an observation.........How come these media toadies get their shorts in a knot over the neo-nazis, but seem to have no problem with the New Black Panthers and their expressed violent agenda."

The it's as simple as the difference between black and white - literally.

I thought any white person that spoke out against illegal immigration was a Neo-Nazi. Isn't that the way it's portrayed in the liberal media and by all pro-illegal immigration organizations?

These days being an illegal resident of the USA is deffinitly ok as long as you have a dark complection. But if your white and speak out against illegal activety happening on a daily basis and being perpatrated by a person of a certain color you are a racist neo-nazi.

scorpio-1902707

If Americans are so lazy how did they create all these jobs that these illegal mexicans are coming here to steal. How can someone be lazy yet create entire industries? If these hard working mexicans work so damn hard, why don't they create jobs in their own country? I also don't understand how some of these mexicans loathe Americans and America yet they come here to work for and with Americans. It's very hypocritical to even make such an ignorant statement. Als maybe these other races of people you mentioned are smart enough to stay below the radar and don't go out raping, robbing, kidknapping and murdering American citizens for $3.00 and half a pack of cigarettes like some of these mexicans who run around actng like retards. Doe's that make sense or is there something else hypocritical you'd like to add?

JB----- What is with you aupporters of the Democdcratic parasitical Part,.

The only programs you want to cut are the ones people have paid money on every week of their working life.

Why is you you parasite enablers never want to cut any of the programs that get handed to the leeches?

I don't know about anyone else, all I know is people, no matter what color, creed, race, etc., should come to this country legally, just as our forefathers did. My ancestors came through Ellis Island to settle in the United States, didn't ask for anything, got jobs, worked hard, and learned English. They didn't ask the population of the United States to learn their language.

Ready and his group are true Americans. He's doing a job that this piece of fecal matter in the White House & the rest of these liberal rats don't have the nads to do. We should just build a 200ftx200ft re-enforced concrete wall all along the entire border (also goes 100ft underground to prevent any tunneling), have the National Guard patrol it, have motion detector 30-50 caliber machine guns every 50ft, motion detector Flame Throwers every 50ft, out from the base of the wall, 100ft high razor wire covering personal landmines going out a 1/4 mile from the base of the wall, and finally, piping all along the top of the wall, with motion detector shower heads that will spray down the most corrosive acid made, melting a human in seconds. And, the National Guard have orders to shoot to kill! Then, lets build a wall all along the border with Canada, preventing any drug smuggling terrorist from sneaking in up there also. And, all the money for these project can come from the phony baloney War on Drugs, that has been a joke since the beginning. Thus ending all these possible terrorist from slithering into our country, and thinking Americans should pay for they're worthless existence in our country. If of country was serious about getting rid all illegal Aliens, they should start by sending the National Guard to every single Emergency Room all over our country, and clean these parasites out of our hospitals, thus making it easy for REAL Americans to get looked at in the Emergency rooms without having to wait until all these free loading Parasites get looked at on the dime of American taxpayers. Then, clean out all the schools of the little parasites infecting our school systems, and so on. That would be a great start! But, Nooo, this loser in the White House won't do that because he wouldn't get all of those votes from the same Parasites that don't belong here in the first place. And, all the loser Liberals that will slam what I have just said, you don't belong in my country, you stink it up with your pathetic liberal tax and spend ideas. You have Bankrupted my once great country! Oh, I long for the good ole days of this country's greatest President, Ronald Wilson Reagan!

One stark difference between Hitler's NSDAP and so-called 'Neo-Nazis': Relative to where European and, specifically, Imperial German society and culture had been up to the end of the Deutsches Reich in 1933 when the National Socialists gained control of the Reichstag, the main thrust of the party cause was liberal, with a lot of 'bones' thrown to the conservative establishment in an effort for broad appeal to everyone.

The Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei premise was that all other forms of government were failures and that they were superior and would succeed in making progress others had been unable to deliver.

Now, the 'Neo Nazis' are pure reactionaries. Feeling threatened is what motivates them into action. The idea behind the Nazi movement was that this fringe of the population would be akin to Lenin's 'useful idiots' that could be employed to do the dirty work of propelling the party to victory in the Federal elections, then pushed out of the way once that was accomplished.

Sadly, the plan backfired, probably because the whole thing was only about half-baked, anyway. At the time, the Nazis were absolutely loved by a lot of people, notably the young adults in Germany, because of the party's populist strategy. Hitler had made a lot of promises that just sounded so good.

The problem was, the people actually doing the work were the ones who had a real ax to grind and had bought whole heartedly into the 'racial/ethnic purity' spiel that had been bantered about to reel more supporters in. The people who were supposed to be manipulated, by a man who had absolutely no principles other than to gain power at all costs and would say whatever it took to whomever it took to get it, ended up hijacking the whole thing. These would be people like Reichsfurhrer Heinrich Himmler and Herr Doktor Joseph Goebbels. In fact, in June of 1934, Himmler led the Rohm Putsch, in which virtually all other Nazi party members who were there for the social cause were eliminated - the infamous 'Nacht der langen Messer', or 'The Night of Long Knives'.

It would seem that in is quest for ultimate power, Hitler created a monster that he was unable to control (Himmler was really running everything, anyway), and in the end, that monster turned on him and was his undoing. Lesson: Play with fire, you get BURNED.

If the Neo Nazis out there really knew where their type had fit into the big picture, they would want nothing to do with the swastika or anything that had to do with Nazism. They'll probably never realize the contempt the founders of the party held them in and how they planned to take advantage of them.

Breaking News:

New Black panther leader advocates killing white people and their baby's.

NAACP/LA RAZA = keeping the hate alive !! Coming to a city near you - look for them at your local polling place !!

middlewes

JB----- What is with you aupporters of the Democdcratic parasitical Part,.

The only programs you want to cut are the ones people have paid money on every week of their working life.

Why is you you parasite enablers never want to cut any of the programs that get handed to the leeches?

What programs would that be?

I can honestly care less if he's a Nazi. Unlike the average American who just complains about illegal immigration, he goes out on occassion and at least does something. While I can't respect his beliefs in the SS, I can respect his will to at least do something about a problem. If more Americans got together and did this then we'd have far less illegals coming in.

And whoever it was who said something about Tea Partiers are socialist for taking the social programs: I'm sure the majority would turn down those options if they were also allowed to turn down the option to pay into those programs. If you're being forced to pay into these programs then you should be able to draw from them if you're able to without being labeled as a hypocrite. How about you buy a car and give it to a complete stranger while you make payments on it. Doesn't make any sense to do does it?

Also to whoever mentioned the Black Panthers. It's actually a different group calling themselves the New Black Panthers. But I agree they weasled their way off the hook. I saw something about it on youtube where they pinned it on the one member. He can't go near the voter booths until 2010 or 1012. Big Punishment for him I know since he can't go near those booths until they're being used again... Also showed footage of the guy making a racist rant wanting to kill whites and their babies. The guy running the NBP later admitted the guy was allowed back into the group after the court.

yup he's a nazi. last i checked we as americans have the right to be idiots, as long as he isnt breaking the law I am happy to have him out in the desert doing what the feds won't. If he mistreats one alien the justice department will be so far past his border crossing he wont be able to goosestep straight for a month.

You know, none of this would be happening... No Neo-Nazis would be patrolling the border... There would be no debates in forums such as this... We wouldn't have 12-20 MILLION ILLEGAL Aliens in our country soaking up our resources...

If the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT would ENFORCE EXISTING FEDERAL LAW!!!!!

A little history lesson... Eisenhower got them out in 1953. Look it up

Chuck M. said:

Nazi Germany came about from desperate citizens that were overtaxed for reparations to the allies after the Second World War.

And 21 people actually checked off on his comments! I don't know what's worse. The comment or the 21 "lemmings" and "sheeple" that agreed with his comments. LMAO This is the problem with TEA PARTY supporters. Never-mind the historical facts!

While I did not check off on this post you really are digging deep on a typo. So he should have said WWI. You can hate all you want, it is what the left does, hate and misdirect. Sure it's only been half an hour but not one person has checked off on your post. I suppose that because they are not so quick to jump at straw dogs. OMG! Look! He mispelt a word, or forgot a space or had one too many I;s in his World War statement. Let's disparage an entire group of people because of it. After all, we are the caring sensitive left!

Keep up the good work. It's posts like yours that show people what the left is really like.

JB....First off...Social Security, Unemployment Benefits and Medicare WERE PAID INTO. They are NOT "welfare". Not unlike people "paying into" their pension programs. Medicaid IS "welfare", as is food stamps, free housing, ect. Since there are ALOT of people out there who have NEVER HELD A JOB in their LIVES, are are "career welfare recipients" ...they didnt even pay INCOME TAXES to say they "paid into welfare" with their tax dollars. Anyone at a Tea Party recieving THOSE benefits probably LOST THEIR JOB DUE TO OBAMA AND HIS RUINING OF AMERICA or his inability to "fix things". It is ONE THING to get "help" when you have paid into it or have a TEMPORARY NEED for it, and another to MAKE IT A WAY OF LIFE AND PAID NOTHING INTO IT .

Some like yourself feel "Jesus was a socialist"....but you are WRONG. In biblical days, there WAS NO WELFARE and the bible mentions the "poor" as widows, orpans, elderly, disabled, ect.....and TRULY disabled.....not someone who claims they are a drug addict and "disabled", an alcoholic and are "disabled", have some phobia and are "disabled"....THEY WERE TRULY DISABLED and they were TRULY "poor". They werent welfare mothers dropping kids each year for a larger cut of a welfare check and more food stamps or so she wouldnt have to GET A JOB like the rest of us. In biblical days, they lived by the "law" ...if you didn't WORK you DIDN'T EAT. So yes, the bible mentions being "charitable to the poor".....but they meant TRULY POOR. They didnt mean those who have NEVER WORKED IN THEIR LIVES, drugging , partying, dropping babies each year, and making up illnesses to KEEP FROM having to GET A JOB. The bible DIDNT MEAN, those with $200 sneakers, IPODS, $400 game systems, cell phones, big screen TVS, designer clothes, gold jewelry all over their bodies.....THAT IS NOT "POOR" by biblical standards AND ITS NOT "POOR" BY TODAYS STANDARDS EITHER.

Most people I know have NO problem "helping" those who REALLY CANNOT work, who are elderly, or who have fallen TEMPORARILY on "hard times" BUT ARE TRYING TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET......thing is....ALOT ARE NOT, TOO MANY ARE NOT and NO we do NOT feel we need to "Spread Our Wealth" to THOSE. Sorry !!! Nor should we "spread our wealth" to illegals cause people IN OUR OWN COUNTRY need the assistance !!!

IF people who SHOULDNT BE RECIEVING social services WERE REMOVED from the benefits....THOSE TRULY NEEDING OF THEM WOULD HAVE MORE .....Those who HAVE WORKED in their lives, THOSE WHO HAVE worked all their lives but are now old......THOSE WHO DO WANT TO MAKE A WAY for themselves but need TEMPORARY help just for now.

There would BE MORE RESOURCES to help people with health care who TRULY NEED IT, there would be NO NEED for a government TAKE OVER . STOP FOREIGN AID.....Keep the money AT HOME IN AMERICA for OUR OWN PEOPLE......

Liberals seem to THINK people are "being mean" cause we don't want to support and pay for lazy people scamming the system....Liberals ACT LIKE we dont want to help anyone and are "greedy". That COULD NOT BE FURTHER from the truth. The TRUTH IS.....we could DO MORE to help those who TRULY NEED IT ....IF ....THE SYSTEM WAS ...NOT...being scammed !!!

IF YOU personally want to give all your money to someone who has NO DESIRE TO GET A JOB , HOLD A JOB, AND IS PERFECTLY HEALTHY AND HAS NO REASON WHY THEY CANNOT WORK.....YOU DO THAT OKAY? The REST OF US.....say "NO".

Nice that the NEO Nazis are watching the borders how foolish. the white supremecist are in league with the Cartels the only reason they are at the border is to openly protect their shipments fools.

Yeah they might kill a few women and 13 year old BOYS crossing but they would never cross the cartels out of fear and their own agendas ie narcotic sales.

Boy how could anyone be so stupid to let them continue or even condone it.

Yeah i didnt use spell check either.

The same people who blame Obama for not doing enough would freak out and scream they were being invaded if Obama sent federal troops, many of whom would be Hispanic and African-American, to take over the boarder the Neo-Nutzys would grab their guns and run for the hills. My father won the bronze star for fighting Nazi's and his brother was killed in the war now we have Nazis guarding our borders and claiming they are the decendents of the founders that's beyond sick.

We all knew this was coming....It was only a matter of time...I wonder how many more stories like this that the libs are are either gonna dig up or MAKE UP to try to discredit the tea party movement...It proves my theory that all libs have are insults, hate, and conversation diversions and nothing more...

This story is tailor made to throw the libs a bone, plain and simple, thats all is....

And speaking of simple, there are a LOT of simple minds posting in this thread, saying that this proves that ALL tea partiers, republicans, and anybody for the arizona law is a nazi.....How pathetic, thats like saying ALL libs are like the black panthers calling for killing white babies...This thread is so pathetic I aint even gonna read any more replies from the libs on it, it proves that they will grasp onto ANY hateful thing said about us, beleive every word 100%, and then run with it until its a dead issue...

You libs make me SICK with your hate...

By the way:

There's only 12 days left until our law takes effect...

Tic/tock, tic/tock, tic/tock....

The same people who blame Obama for not doing enough would freak out and scream they were being invaded if Obama sent federal troops, many of whom would be Hispanic and African-American, to take over the boarder the Neo-Nutzys would grab their guns and run for the hills. My father won the bronze star for fighting Nazi's and his brother was killed in the war now we have Nazis guarding our borders and claiming they are the descendents of the founders that's beyond sick.Who knows how many bodies they've buried in the desert. Is this the “Final Solution” for illegal immigration.

I don't get it.

Is this article about Adolph Hitler and the Nazi's in Germany in World War 2. The only comments left uncollapsed are the ones that are talking about Hitler's Nazi's; not the article about a persons reaction to the Neo Nazi's protecting the border in Arizona. All of them got collapsed.

Very strange. MSNBC, please let it be an open forum for people's opinions. Why so many Collapses. They are all normal, no profanity, like that of Firefox who said all Blacks were stupid and pieces of trash. What?

.That conversation by Firefox was left on the boards, which was despicable.

Where is your NCOH?

I love this forum, but am disappointed in the choices to collapse the sane comments.

Thank you.

Somethings not right about this story, I can just feel it....Something tells me that this so called "neo-nazi" was PAID to do this and get caught in order to discredit the tea party...I'm a tea partier, and I'm definately NOT a Nazi...And neither are ALL of my tea partier friends....

IF this dude really IS a nazi, then he is one in 10,000, maybe even one in a 100,000....

But of course the libs will focus on HIM and not the other 9,999 people that arent nazis in order to discredit the entire movement simply because it goes against their agenda...

Ok libs, lets play devils advocate RIGHT NOW, shall we??

If you think the MAJORITY of tea partiers are nazis then I say that the MAJORITY of liberals are closet black panthers that want to kill white babies...Prove to me that you're not...

How does it feel to be lumped into that category libs??

No need to answer, I know how it feels, it feels about as good as you calling us nazis....

If any lib called me a nazi to my face you wouldnt be able to recognize what was LEFT of him after I finished with him...

This story and the libs that beleive that we're all nazis are PATHETIC and have SERIOUS mental problems...

The name is Firerox, not Firefox. Despicable comments on this board re: the Iranian Nuclear Scientist and their thoughts about a race.

Yes Brad Americans have the right to be idiots. You excercise your right quite well.

Who wants to arrest and deport illegal immigrants from Mexico instead of arresting and imprisoning the many American employees that enticed them here? Who proposes stiff penalties for these families seeking a better life while turning a blind eye to the American employers that get rich by illegally employing them and paying an entire family(under the table) less than a living wage for a single American citizen? Who supports a recent state law that attempts to supercede and trump federal law by targeting a huge group of people solely by their appearance, though many of them ARE legal American citizens? Who would push to arrest and deport a young college student with an excellent GPA because his parents brought him here illegally as a baby or toddler? Mexico is as foreign to him as it is to any natural born American. Who would silently support (by large numbers) and publicly support (by fewer numbers) a neo-nazi fascist vigilant group that murders innocent people for chasing a dream promised by greedy American businessmen ? The answer to all of my questions are hypocritical right wing conservatives.

I am a proud, liberal American. I don't support any of this insanity. I am as sick of the rampant crime rate due to Mexican gang members and drug cartels as the next guy. I am well aware of the huge drain on our resources by educating, housing, providing medical care and feeding underpaid illegal immigrants. I know that turning a blind eye, because of unadulterated American greed, allowed the undesirables of Mexico to follow these hard working people. I acknowedge that this problem threatens the American way of life and requires immediate action.

First, cut off the head of the snake. American employers of illegal aliens should face serious prison time and confiscaton of all their assets. Those assets should be used to provide for social services now paid by the American taxpayers. As the job opportunities disappear, hard working Mexicans will be forced to confront their own leaders and demand a responsive Mexican government. Secondly, call our massive miltary back home to defend our borders instead of defending the borders of ungrateful nations. Build maximum security prisons with minimum anemities on our borders to incarcerate Mexican drug runners, gang members and repeat offenders until the Mexican government proves it's ability to contain them within their own borders. Grant hearings for those that can prove they're trying to rejoin their families in America. Thirdly, issue orders to kill any illegal border-crosser that threatens to escape our security.

Finally, we must address the issue of millions of hard working Mexican workers, with no criminal background, that remain in our country. Amnesty rears it's ugly head. American businessmen drew them here with dreams of a better life while paying them illegal sub-standard wages for years. American consumers turned their heads the other way in appreciation for cheap produce, discounted motel rates and inexpensive restaurant meals. WE are responsible for their plight and WE must allow them and their children the opportunity to become sworn American citizens with full allegiance to our nation(in a timely manner) WITHOUT the threat of deportation.

michelle123abc

#1.1-Now you see what can come out of the woodwork as a result of SB 1070. More will follow....

It would appear, this is a highly emotional issue for most Americans. First, this is not a racial issue. Beyond all else, this is an ecological issue, a scientific issue. One of this nation's most astute ecological scientists has written several books concerning the criticality of exploding human population growth, of which immigration, both legal and non legal are, not only a critical issue facing this nation, but the most grave issue facing the entire Earth.

We cannot govern what Mexico and its exploding human populations has devastated. Will cost the very fate of the Earth. AFtrer all, they have deforested, for the raging human populations, more forested ecosystems than the USA. Their ever mushrooming human populations is destroying Mexico, so do we really want and require their most problematic citizens killing this nation's ecosystems? Above all else, man lives on an ecosystem dependent Earth, and this nation can only control our own endeavors to save our share of the living Earth.

We can only act locally to save our corner of the Earth, and at the very best, we are probably beyond the carrying capacity of this nation's ecosystems. So, before all other considerations, including the salvation of the Earth, revolt against the ever and never ending tide of human hordes devouring planet death.

The most grave issue facing this nation is, Zero Population Growth Now!

The Tea Party has nothing to do with fools like this guy. Simple.

I guess if the American People protect themselves from Illegals they are Nazi's??? But if America starts a war for Oil is alright??? That makes a lot of sense to me if I was a Republican too!!!

I don't have an objection to this group patrolling the border. It is the United States and the article is clear that they are acting within the scope of the law on this border patrol.

While I can appreciate the cop being a bit apprehensive, all reputable authorities agree that this group is acting within the law.

They even gave the illegal aliens they found water before turning them over to authorities.

Char in OH

I vote for you for President. I love your post 1.43.

The funny thing is that so many people think it is a big ol' crime to be here without being legally here. They mix up illegal with thinking this that it is a violation of criminal category on the books. Like it or not Illegal Immigrant is a misnomer made so by the word Illegal.

What is just as criminal to me is an American not understanding the difference between breaking a law on the books vs a civil code issue not a law on any book that is broken. But I would not go bonkers over thinking it should be a crime to be so unaware to the point that I start believing that being unaware of basic rights and laws is a law broken, it is just a mental thought that it is a law broken formulated in our minds. Like saying it is illegal to walk down the street without an ID in America...ha ha ha

I'm just sayin' I don't mind discussions about it but can we at least get real. What many are really saying is they wish it was a law broken rather than a civil code handled by federal or they are just plain uninformed and that word "Illegal" throws them off.

Keep in mind that I hope we find better ways to avoid a porous border as well but right now I am only speaking about it not being a LAW BROKEN for accuracy's sake. I hate the continuous mantra that pretends and makes us all look ignorant of how the system works.

Well Farmer you might be correct but its like the nature of extremist to take the law in their own hands.

Not acceptable for anyone other than the law to watch the borders. If these vigilantes IE Nazis skin heads KKK black panthers What ever they all are guard our borders they will commit such heinas crimes against the Immigrants it would start something we dont want any part of.

It is their nature to brew hatred coruption and instill fear through force not what I hope we stand for either demo or repub liberal or conservative. If you let the coyote watch the chicken coupe he will have a chicken dinner every time. I believe Arizona should stop clucking or it will be instore for some real trouble. ie every hate group in their state the police wont be able to control it.

Char in Ohio, Yours is one of, if not the Best Statement of our case I have ever read one one of these threads. Very well said, Thank You

Char In Ohio

JB....First off...Social Security, Unemployment Benefits and Medicare WERE PAID INTO. They are NOT "welfare". Not unlike people "paying into" their pension programs. Medicaid IS "welfare", as is food stamps, free housing, ect. Since there are ALOT of people out there who have NEVER HELD A JOB in their LIVES, are are "career welfare recipients" ...they didnt even pay INCOME TAXES to say they "paid into welfare" with their tax dollars. Anyone at a Tea Party recieving THOSE benefits probably LOST THEIR JOB DUE TO OBAMA AND HIS RUINING OF AMERICA or his inability to "fix things". It is ONE THING to get "help" when you have paid into it or have a TEMPORARY NEED for it, and another to MAKE IT A WAY OF LIFE AND PAID NOTHING INTO IT .

Some like yourself feel "Jesus was a socialist"....but you are WRONG. In biblical days, there WAS NO WELFARE and the bible mentions the "poor" as widows, orpans, elderly, disabled, ect.....and TRULY disabled.....not someone who claims they are a drug addict and "disabled", an alcoholic and are "disabled", have some phobia and are "disabled"....THEY WERE TRULY DISABLED and they were TRULY "poor". They werent welfare mothers dropping kids each year for a larger cut of a welfare check and more food stamps or so she wouldnt have to GET A JOB like the rest of us. In biblical days, they lived by the "law" ...if you didn't WORK you DIDN'T EAT. So yes, the bible mentions being "charitable to the poor".....but they meant TRULY POOR. They didnt mean those who have NEVER WORKED IN THEIR LIVES, drugging , partying, dropping babies each year, and making up illnesses to KEEP FROM having to GET A JOB. The bible DIDNT MEAN, those with $200 sneakers, IPODS, $400 game systems, cell phones, big screen TVS, designer clothes, gold jewelry all over their bodies.....THAT IS NOT "POOR" by biblical standards AND ITS NOT "POOR" BY TODAYS STANDARDS EITHER.

Most people I know have NO problem "helping" those who REALLY CANNOT work, who are elderly, or who have fallen TEMPORARILY on "hard times" BUT ARE TRYING TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET......thing is....ALOT ARE NOT, TOO MANY ARE NOT and NO we do NOT feel we need to "Spread Our Wealth" to THOSE. Sorry !!! Nor should we "spread our wealth" to illegals cause people IN OUR OWN COUNTRY need the assistance !!!

IF people who SHOULDNT BE RECIEVING social services WERE REMOVED from the benefits....THOSE TRULY NEEDING OF THEM WOULD HAVE MORE .....Those who HAVE WORKED in their lives, THOSE WHO HAVE worked all their lives but are now old......THOSE WHO DO WANT TO MAKE A WAY for themselves but need TEMPORARY help just for now.

There would BE MORE RESOURCES to help people with health care who TRULY NEED IT, there would be NO NEED for a government TAKE OVER . STOP FOREIGN AID.....Keep the money AT HOME IN AMERICA for OUR OWN PEOPLE......

Liberals seem to THINK people are "being mean" cause we don't want to support and pay for lazy people scamming the system....Liberals ACT LIKE we dont want to help anyone and are "greedy". That COULD NOT BE FURTHER from the truth. The TRUTH IS.....we could DO MORE to help those who TRULY NEED IT ....IF ....THE SYSTEM WAS ...NOT...being scammed !!!

IF YOU personally want to give all your money to someone who has NO DESIRE TO GET A JOB , HOLD A JOB, AND IS PERFECTLY HEALTHY AND HAS NO REASON WHY THEY CANNOT WORK.....YOU DO THAT OKAY? The REST OF US.....say "NO".

My sympathies,

Char & scott what does welfare recipients have to do with Nazis guarding the borders so they can insure their dope gets through?

I am with you on knowing that people abuse the welfare system see it all the time. So who do we put in charge of it you should see the case loads at the DA's office more than the investigators could handle so they go after the extreme cases.

The dropping babies statement is very crude and shows your sympathy and compassion for your fellow man is very low to none. that statement is totally uncalled for. how would you like it if i refered to you as dropping out of your moms womb. It does not feel nice so stop with the baby bashing please. sounds like your the type to put unwanted kittens in a bag and throw them into the river.

Anyways its those type of statement that turns people "majority voters" like me away from extremists like you. You have no respect for human life. i would rather stick with the liberals at least on these matters for now.

You were better off sticking to the subject.

HEADLINE......Honorably Discharged, Decorated Marine leads Patrols in; Federal agents no-mans land. Michelle Price,,,, your one stupid BIOCHE.

Char... How easy is it for you to cast stones at your unemployed neighbor, YET,,,, I don't see your quarrel with the Billions that went to the money changers on wall street, BANKERS to the laymen..What would Jesus say is the moraly right position ? I hear hypocrisy from your lips. I hope I'm wrong...

It's pretty obvious that most of the commenters here are very happy to have Nazis on patrol.

common sense im only on here to cause grief to the hate groups on here who are clearly in league with the nazis. nazis stand for nothing the Americans want. They clearly are criminals who try to instill fear in thier victims, unfortunately where they might stop women and children from comming over by killing them, they don't stop the real criminals ie murderers, cartels drug runners, rapists who they themselves are afraid of.

so what good will they do for us if they cant and wont stop criminal elements from comming across the border?

I'm sorry but your just ignorant. People like this patrolling are dangerous. They aren't bound by any laws and will probably break some by detaining them. Not only that but its highly likely they wont bother to detain them but rather use lethal force.

This is how a law like the Arizona law can be dangerous because it encourages citizens with extremist backgrounds to start cracking down on them.

Hit it right on the head. We worry about every other countries laws and civil rights but neglect our own citizens' rights to be safe in our own country. Safe from the illegals who come here, kill, steal, rape, and plunder. Then, when someone stands up for themselves, idiots like eric think they are bad people. They haven't shot anyone - illegals sure can't say that. They haven't started a gang war - illegals can't say that. I bet if given the chance 90% of the illegals would shoot their way into this country and take what they could. Keep them out - simple as that.

I'll tell you what's "dangerous" eric - having Mexican nationals from drug cartels roaming the Arizona desert armed with AKs and shooting deputies. that's what we have about 25 miles south of me here. I'm more than happy if an armed citizen's group wants to go shoot back.

Wilberta,

Go back to school. Hitler was a Nazi, Mussolini was a fascist.

spike

Hitler was a FASCIST NAZI and Mussolini was one of his role models. I teach History at a

MAJOR UNIVERSITY. I'm in school everyday. I have my PHD in History so I am not going to entertain you and your foolishness no more today.

So say what ever dumb thing you need to say next, I just put you on the IGNORE CLICK!

Chuck:

it's the gay, artsy, dancy femmy thing

Really? This is the best you can do? This is how you see civil and human rights? Check out our Constitution and the history of this nation. Every time we isolate and attack one race or another, we end up screwing ourselves, i.e. slavery, WWII Japanese/American concentration camps. All those scary non-whites.

Where do we go next? Nazi's patrolling our southern border, and then Stalinists patrolling our northern border? All those sneaky Canadians trying to attack us. Didn't the 9/11 terrorists cross over that border during the weeks before that unforgettable day?

Wilberta,

You must teach revisionist history; mixing words and definitions to impart a view that agrees with your perceptions.

BS=Been to School, MS=More of the Same. If you have a PhD, it must stand for Piled higher & Deeper.

They aren't bound by any laws and will probably break some by detaining them.

They are bound by laws, FYI. Anyone within our borders--unless they've got diplomatic immunity--is subject to our laws. If they weren't, they would be breaking any, would they? And go back and read the article again. They're holding suspected illegals for the police. There's nothing wrong with that, no matter your political affiliation, until and unless you start acting on your baser impulses.

I have my PHD in History so I am not going to entertain you and your foolishness no more today.

Seems that you failed English. And quite a wonderful way to argue: hit "ignore" and run away from anyone who challenges you. Please feel free to ignore everyone on Newsvine by not logging on ever again.

Chuck, After the Second World War? Oh I get it The Korean War was to go after Hitler.

"your encompassing knowlege" I'll just leave that one alone.

Who really cares if their neo- Nazi etc.. If they stop even ONE illegal from coming in, that more then likely will break laws here other then crossing illegally, or maybe even rape someones daughter, who cares what color, who cares as long as their not causing trouble, they are there where our government is not, all of yous that hate them aren't any better then them, I don't see all you haters on the border, just bitching about some AMERICANS helping out, volunteering no less. I salute them regardless of what their beliefs or color is. I don't care it it were a armed bunch black Americans, Chinese or what ever nationality, their there helping. Quit bitching or help or come up with a solution.

Eric,

I agree that this guy is dangerous, but there is quite a lot of laws governing what he can and cannot do. Improper use of force will land him in jail.

sorry ERIC but you are the ignorant one. they carry weapons for a reason and that reason is the illegals and drug pushers carry an arsenal - it is kill or be killed in many situations on our damn southern border - people like you who are afraid of your own shadows would be stepped on and worst by these illegals and their drug pusher friends who are leatching off of our government while you could not get what they are getting for free from our own f'd up government that worries more about their damn freedom than our own citizens - and yes, i am a liberal if you really want to know

and also a vietnam vet who knows weapons and how to use them and if i was on the border it would be my pleasure to off some of them personally because this is my country ''not theirs'' - try doing what they are doing in our country in theirs and you would end up in jail, maybe where you belong with your thinking

What a maroon.

There is no such thing as a ex-marine.He is a former marine.SEMPER FI!

Hey Eric------ it's easy tell the inept liar in the white house to do his job we won't have to have people doing the job of the federal government.

All of you whiners complaining becquse they are there tell the inept liar in the white house to do his job.

I have to admit...I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around this one. Yes, I see what it is they're up to and why they would want to do it. But to want to do it that badly that they're willing to lug around weapons and equipment in the southern Arizona desert? I just can't identify with that.

There's a bunch of people out there who'd say, 'Hey, that's a great idea!', for sure. Until it comes time to actually start doing it. Then, suddenly, most people who have any real brains start considering the reality of it. Maybe even going out once or twice might be sort of fun, just for the experience of it. I doubt there's very many who will do it a third time. If I was going to be out in that desert for any reason, it would probably be at night and I'd be travelling as light as possible. As in, anything I really don't need, like a gas mask, I'm not taking with me.

If I was legally bound to be out there, as in, there on orders while receiving a paycheck cut by Uncle Sam, okay. I've got a sneaky feeling this is much less about somebody's 'patriotism' than it is someone exercising a grotesquely overinflated ego or attempting the biggest macho stunt he could come up with.

Actually, sounds like something an ex-Marine would do...

This guy is dangerous and is crime waiting to happen. It is shocking that he is allowed to do what he is doing. I think that if there is a need for volunteers to assist the border patrol in watching the border, there should be a government training program set up for people to apply to. A committee should screen the applicants and seclect those who have no criminal background and no connection to organizations such as the KKK or the Neo-nazis. Those selected by the committee should be given a uniform and an identification tag that informs others that they are official volunteers. No one else should be allowed to patrol the border except official volunteers and law enforcement. Having independent groups with their own agendas out there patroling is just crazy business. Neo-Nazis are not representatives of this country. Their allegiance to facisim is anti-American. They don't belong at the border!

Plan and simple the Neo Nazi is not the best orginzation to have existed, let us all face it and be honest. I can understand condoning the action of helping out the border patrol but not what the group stands for. Yes, I would be scared has a law enforcement officer having them there. I would suggest taking their firearms but still letting them assist, but I guess that would be Un-American (smile). It is unsafe to have groups like this exist because they are dangerous to society (big picture thinking, please people). I am a republican but not a Repub nut job like Fox news people and guest. This is a great country, go oversees and live and you will understand what I mean. I do beleive that something must be done and the reason why the poeple from Mexico are talked about is because more of them are illegally here then the Irish, Russian, eastern Euro's, Nigerians, Chinese, Koreans, Middle easterners, Indians, etc. Also, they are heavy in the drug trade no all nor most but a good enough % to hurt our country.

i believe that organization is called the national guard ,but they are busy with some bullsh*t job overseas

So, let me get this straight, you idiots believe illegal immigrants are more dangerous than Nazi's, how ignorant can you get.

no more today.

Obviously you don't teach English Wilberta. It is "any more".

what do they need gas masks for??? That sounds like bs to me. maybe they brought them for the photo op.

and for those of you who dont think nazis have rights you are worse than they are. this is america everyone has rights even the idiots. Maybe while the fbi is out tailing these guys they will get lucky and stumble across some drug dealers then we all win.

You know guys, the issue I would be more concerned with is---When will the so called NeoNazi's start killing, what Hitler considered inferior people, the imperfect white, black, yellow and whatever other people of color who live in the United States. When will they decided who has the right to live and who doesn't. At this point, this group is interested in the illegal Mexican who crossed the borders. Or so they say! There is more to this little story then they want us to know. To come out in the open and and want people to believe they are just protecting the borders, helping law inforcement, hog wash, especially armed to the teeth with all kind of weapons. Do you people really believe this group of haters are so concerned about our borders and the illegals who cross them ? Wonder how much target practice they get in one night? Lot of desert out there. Hitler started small too, and look where it took us. I would like to think that the American people have more going for them, then to believe these neo nazi's are doing for the good of this country, might be good for them if they think they can manage to over throw our government and take control. Another thing i get tired of hearing is about the so and so black monster in the white house. I did not vote for Obama, but if all you Americans out there who hate his guts so much, why are you sitting on your butts, get out there, find out how to start the impeachment process, but you have to remember, you have to get rid of the vice president and the house speaker, because they are in line after him, if something should happen to him and he gets bootd out of his job. Beware , Americans, be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. People who sit on their butts and moan and groan and don't try to better their life or the way their government is run makes me sick. Yes baseballman, People who think that illegal immigrants are more dangerous then Nazi's, are ignorant. must have been brain washed somewhere along in their life.

SIEG HEIL SIEG HEIL SIEG HEIL, that must really warm your so call patriot blood, uih ahole?

Dan --You're as un-American as this Nazi group--You're pathetic.

baseballman

So, let me get this straight, you idiots believe illegal immigrants are more dangerous than Nazi's, how ignorant can you get.

You have it backwards but, don't worry, I'm here to help. If you check crime statistics in almost any area (probably every area) of this country, you will find that MANY more dangerous crimes are committed by illegal aliens than are committed by avowed Nazi's! Jeez...so who is the idiot?!? How ignorant can YOU get?

national socialist party!=liberal=democrat

Funny how white people have nothing to whine about but the New Black Panther Party and NAACP (ha, have they killed anyone? no) All the while blacks have had to put up with the HUNDREDS of neo-nazi groups across the nation that have ACTUALLY KILLED, harassed and intimidate minorities for decades? Blacks have had to put up with the threats (and numerous actions that have resulted in serious injury or death, which is more than you can say for the Black Panthers) from not just classified 'hate' groups, but the general white populace for a majority of America's nationhood and even before that.

And now white people have their panties in a bunch because a few crazy guys talk smack about killing their babies. I'm pretty sure that recently two young men were arrested for threatening to chop off black people's heads in a rampage. Why were they arrested? Because white hate groups have set a precedent of racial killings, so there is reason to be paranoid. With the way people are acting over the NBPP, I would like to see what happens if a black supremacist group actually goes around burning down white people's houses and stringing them up (or dragging them behind trucks). White people across the nation would instantly spontaneously combust, they wouldn't be able to handle it and their little lives would be utterly shattered, poor pitiful things.

but it is always wonderful to see all the white supremacists show their faces once again. How are white people going to whine about hate being perpetuated by minorities when whites were true trailblazers in the art of all-American racist hate? Throwing punches and then being scared when they come back to you huh?

aiych

Funny how white people have nothing to whine about but the New Black Panther Party and NAACP (ha, have they killed anyone? no) All the while blacks have had to put up with the HUNDREDS of neo-nazi groups across the nation that have ACTUALLY KILLED, harassed and intimidate minorities for decades? Blacks have had to put up with the threats (and numerous actions that have resulted in serious injury or death, which is more than you can say for the Black Panthers) from not just classified 'hate' groups, but the general white populace for a majority of America's nationhood and even before that.

But, don't forget that blacks have killed more blacks than ALL of those groups! So....what's your point?

The Neo Nazi's patrolling the border (if they really are) is equivalent to the New Black Panther Party stopping voters from going to their precinct to vote, which is a right of all Americans.

Why isn't this subject talked about. Crackers; killing all cracker babies. We are going into uncharted territory with this new Black Panther Party.

It is despicable the Neo Nazi's are patrolling the border, of which I still don't believe. They are bought infiltrators.

but it is always wonderful to see all the white supremacists show their faces once again. How are white people going to whine about hate being perpetuated by minorities when whites were true trailblazers in the art of all-American racist hate? Throwing punches and then being scared when they come back to you huh?

Who's scared and how do you figure that? Coming back with what? What do they have to come back with? Your comment above sounds like dry humor. Something that Steven Wright might say in one of his standup comedy routines.

I'd also like to know who the white supremacists are your talking about. You make it sound as if whites are perpatrating crimes against minorities now. How do you figure? Don't some/certain minorities perpatrate crimes upon their own and say it was whites? Don't blacks sometimes run their own communities into the ground and blame whites because the whites moved out? Let's be honest here!

As far as the new black panther movement goe's, it's really nothing more then a few idiots out there trying to intimidate white voters into voting in a black and spewing hatred towards whites and all because there is a black president now. They also got away with it with holder's sorry azz being in the top cop position in the DOJ.

Further more whites aren't whinning about anything. They are simply paying attention to what's happening now that they, whites, put a black man in office. They see how the future would be if infact blacks were in total charge of America. They see what would really happen in a country where the roles were reversed and whites were the minority. Whites aren't scared and deffinitly aren't whinning! They have no reason to be. As I said, they are just paying attention and letting certain people know that they see what is happening. This way they can make the proper adjustments for the future so that this way these things will never happen again.

Most whites today have done everything they can to bring black minorities into the fold of equality but only get met with resistance. The reason for the resistance is that if the minorities take the equal footing they are always offered, they'll have to do everything the white majoriity does and that means no more complaining about the entitlements they'll have to give up and lots of hard work to maintain a household, support their families and get up every morning to an alarm clock in order to have a decent life that they always complain about that they want and don't have.

You can always tell who the real racist are these days. They are the ones pointing the fingers and saying "your a racist or that group or organization is racist". It's actually pretty ironic how easy it is to tell who the real racist are these days.

Wilberta: You claim to be some respectable history professor who has 5 children and 10 grandchildren yet you are arguing like some little baby. Always throwing tantrums left and right and refusing to acknowledge any fact.

Case in point, quoting you here:

"All of you posters who are agreeing with the NAZIS are a DANGER to America PERIOD!... NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY!=NAZIS=TEA PARTY... Americans are so stupid!"

For starters I'd thought they'd have taught a wise head like you that screaming "Nazis!" in any debate is a quick way to educate everyone to the fact that you know jack sh*t of what you're talking about.

AIYCH----------- yep, we are scared too death sweetness, come on down.

Just like Arizona, if the federal governmnet can't take care of business, we can. When the panthers come to the polls for this election, they will need more than clubs.

Don't you know we have no right to protect Our Country!!! But the Muslin and Mexicans have the right to do what ever they want to us...

Well, i thought there was intelligent fact driven commentary from the right on newsvine, but apparently i was wrong. It's really quite amazing to read all the hate and ignorance spewed out on the pages.

I just saw a picture of Mr. Ready on the front page of the newspaper this morning.

I have to wonder just what kind of a Marine this guy was. He may not have been a very good one!

First, this guy is now quite plump, something the Marines just don't tolerate. Second, he seems to have forgotten how to dress. His coat appeared to be a British or Dutch desert pattern camouflage, his trousers were some kind of RealTree style commercial hunters' print, and his cover was a dingy looking, too-small dark colored ball cap with an oversized yellowish logo on the front. I may have to give him credit for at least not disgracing the US uniform by wearing it while he's on his, um, adventures.

The weapon he had made me smile, too. Nothing I would associate with a true Marine. He had a nine millimeter carbine based on the AR-15 design, with the collapsible stock and short handguards, but with a long barrel and no 'iron' sights, just some type of reflector sight that didn't look like a very serious model. The Marines have always been dedicated RIFLEMEN and have generally eschewed anything 'wimpy' when it came along. They hung on to their Springfield '03's as the semi-auto M1 came along. After they belatedly adopted the M1, they wanted to keep it as the M14 came along. Then they didn't want to lose their M14's to the M16. Today, the Army combat units are big users of the Carbine M4, but the Marines are still dedicated to the Rifle, M16.

Either the Marine Corps and Mr. Ready parted company a LONG time ago, or he never was one.

I am 100% pro SB1070 and support Governor Brewer 100%. But I am also 100% dead set against this neo-nazi scumbag being allowed anywhere near the Arizona border where I live! Having been in the service for 20 years before retirement, I generally found that people of his mentality and attitudes were not welcome in the military even one whole term of enlistment. Having been in the medical field, I processed more than a fair share of personnel for discharges for personality disorders that included severe racist and delusional behavior. Sounds like Mr Ready might just have fallen right into that category

I agree, I support laws against different things and I support proper state/federal enforcement of laws. As a Tea Party supporter I support the state taking things into hands when big fat Odumbos refuse to help.

To quote another, I think the small, 65 year old woman Jan Brewer has more BALLS than the entire panel of 535 congressmen, republican or democrat, put together. And definitely more than the entire White House.

That said, I don't support people like JT Ready and Neo-Nazi scumbags. I think they are against everything the Tea Party stands for - read their damn platform and compare their economic policies alone to the Tea Party - and the Tea Party is not racist. I think that in every time and place (remember, it was Southern Democrats that were racist) there will be some bad eggs in every consortium, but that does not mean that the entire group or the principle of law is bad.

Wilberta Barry, you say the Tea Party is all Nazis because we have a few psychos hidden in the ranks.

I say that since there are Mexicans that are drug-dealing murders, by association since you support them you should be considered a drug-dealing murderer and executed along with the rest!

Kevin, you said it. In the area where I live on border there are a lot of farmers and ranchers who Vietnam vets or former military. And many of them are a lot less tolerant than I am! How long do you think this bozo Ready would be allowed on their property without major altercations? This is in addition to the illegals ant the drug smugglers! I think the answer is pretty obvious. The Minutemen are somewhat tolerated because of a lower key approach and little visible firearms, but even they are not universally approved of or wanted in these parts. People like these are generally more part of the problem than the solution as they can get in the way of the Border Patrol and other enforcement agencies doing their job. The Border Patrol are placed in the dangerous position of having to divide their attention between quasi well meaning civilians and the apprehensions of illegals and drug smugglers.

I'd like to know what it is you'd like him to do that other administrations haven't already tried? More manpower? Better fencing? Deportation? It's not like the guy is doing any less of those things than Bush or Clinton, or the other Bush, or Reagan, etc. So by doing that, he IS upholding the constitution, which clearly, or unclearly, gives illegal immigration issues to the federal government.

Sometimes people need to look at the facts. More money is being spent on border security than ever before. Don't tell me there were drones surveilling the border before(Currently being used by the border patrol.). Crime in AZ has declined according to reports taken by AZ police and other government officials by more than 30% over the last ten years. The last two years were data is available is 2008 and 2009 crime went down each year. Illegal border crossings are also at an all time low. This is of course due to the downturn in the economy. If you really want to prevent illegal immigrants from coming back once the economy starts to recover there must be changes made at a nation wide level where any person that is hired must have permission to be here and work here. This can only be done with immigration reform. Don't just listen to what the media and or politicians tell you look up the facts yourself and make your own decision.

The "Right Thing"? what's that? throwing out the Constitution and just ignoring any right you don't agree with? These groups might just find trouble they can't deal with and wind up in body bags themselves. This trash has no place in this country.

R. Scalzo

Nor do the Illegal Aliens!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KarlMarx,

which clearly, or unclearly, gives illegal immigration issues to the federal government.

First, These people are NOT Immigrants, they are Illegal Aliens; not what you and your friends continually refer to them as:"Undocumented Immigrants" or "Illegal Immigrants". This is not about limiting "Immigrations" but stopping people who, by their presence alone have Broken our laws."

In order to be an Immigrant, you must go through a legal process to become one; Just swimming the border, coming in via a container ship, overstaying your vacation Visa, or being brought in by parents illegally as a child and staying doesn't cut it. You will find the rules in the following:

TITLE 8, CHAPTER 12, SUBCHAPTER II, Part III, § 1101-1537

You are only an immigrant if you have followed the process of becoming one; otherwise you are an Alien ... PERIOD! Next, if you Violate the laws on how to get into this country (Ignoring Visa regulation , tourist overstay, illegal entry, etc) then you are in the country Illegally. Hence the name ILLEGAL ALIEN. Our laws are no more Draconian than any other nation.

I have no problem with someone wanting to be a part of the American Dream LEGALLY but I do have a problem with Illegal Aliens. Illegal aliens have, by virtue of just entering our country broken our laws and done so both willfully and with impunity. Go to another country, do the same thing, and see how much fun you have when you violate their laws.

I'd like to know what it is you'd like him to do that other administrations haven't already tried? More manpower? Better fencing? Deportation?

Since building a fence won't work as they will just tunnel under it or cut it down in places, mining the border isn't politically correct (pictures of blown up people won't show well on the nightly news), and the latest "Eye in the Sky" Predator Drone idea has everyones panties in a wad, how do you suggest we do it? Send down 1200 National Guard troops? That is what Odrama is doing.

Just sending 1200 National Guard Troops won't have a hope in Hell of fixing the problem either. That is because they will be going down there to make some politition happy and give something for the newsies to report on the 6 o'clock hour. Without a good plan of action, a solid mission, a definition of success, and an exit strategy, all this is going to do is get a lot of people killed and injured on Both sides. The National Guard are all good people and highly qualified warriors, but they are citizens soldiers and there is no plan at this point other than "send them down there." With the absence of a well thought out plan, there is little that they can do but fail miserably (sorta like in Afghanistan and Iraq).

I think this calls for a unified plan of attack, and it calls for the use of, as the Ultra-Liberals have called us in the past , "Professional Evil Doers." This is a job for the First Team; I think it calls for a selective group of US Marines. Since you asked for something that hasn't been tried, Here is my plan, it at least has a chanc of success:

Deploy Between 200 and 300 US Marine Reinforced Fire teams (6 / 8 man teams with night vision equipment) along with a corpsman in case someone is hurt and a cop (with Paddy Wagon) to take them into custody and read them their rights. Do this all along the border every night at pre-determined places where border crossing activity is high. Move the Fire Teams to a different location each night and let the illegals, drug smugglers, coyotes etc. guess where they will be and how many teams will be deployed that night.

The Marines will be instructed to first challenge the intruders verbally through a bull horn. Should they resist or attempt to scatter, the first shots are to be HIGH over the heads as long as they are unarmed. The shots are intended to get their attention.

If they show, even before the first verbal challenge, that they are armed or should they be foolish enough fire on or return fire with the Marines .... Oh, Well .... I guess the only thing to do then is let us do what we do best... adjust their attitude! If the smugglers / coyotes start bringing in heavier weapons as a responses, Let the Marines have the M-2 (.50 cal) and Mortars to show them the error of their ways. Adjust the response as needed to get their attention and keep it.

Granted that there are 2000 miles of border, however, of that probably less than 300 miles of it are used on a regular basis in crossings because it is just too uninhabitable if you get caught out after the sun rises. If anyone has ever been to desert southwest they will know this. Its a great place if you like Scorpions, Sidewinder Rattlesnakes, and miles on end of nothing but dry or alkaline water holes. Of the 2000 miles, probably less than 300 (closer to 200) of them are used because, if you stray off of the well know path, your remains will be found sometime in the future. That being said, 200 to 300 Marine Reinforced Fire Teams would be, at worst case, covering less than 5 miles per team including overlap; You can see that far with thermal imaging equipment on the ground, not to mention is overflight equipment is used. The teams could cover that kind of area without even breaking a sweat.

After about a month, we sould be able to reduce the number of teams by half. After 6 months, you might even be able to reduce it under 100 teams. This is because it would have gotten the attention of these people that feel they can break our laws with impunity.

The whole exercise is about first getting their attention and then keeping it (sorta like "Turn your Head and Cough"). Once you have the inflow controlled from the broken pipe, then you can go about vacuuming up the water in the basement, but not before. Then you can go after the employers and those that are here in the US Illegally.

If You have a better idea, lets hear it. But, no Amnesty for people that broke our laws. Not now, not ever again.

R Scalzo.....AGREED!

I can not agree with you more. Those NAZIS TRASH have no place in this country.

They are dangerous and are creating a following of MINDLESS IDIOTS just like HITLER did.

The illegals did have a place in America at one time in History like it or not. Texas and California were a part of Mexico at one time.

This Country has NEVER been NAZILAND! America it can not be allowed to become that now no matter the reason.

Believe me illegal aliens are tame compared to NAZISM! Today the Illegals, tomorrow the Jews, the next day Gays, then Blacks, then Catholics that is how those FRINGE" element movements gain momentum.

People turn a BLIND EYE to the TRUTH because of IGNORANCE!

OUR Biggest threat in America today is OBAMA Administaration and the zombies like you that support his ideas!! ARIZONA DEFENSE FUND www.keepazsafe.com

Anne-S

The best absolute best manipulations of the constitution is a better statement. Try this enforce our current Immigrations Laws. Problem solved.

Uh, show me where it talks about illegal immigration in the Constitution. In fact, it does not. There is a U.S. code on it, but nothing in the Constitution, except where it says
"The Congress Shall have Power . . . To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization . . . "

It's not that I want illegal immigration. I just don't like people who have no idea what they are talking about. Granted, we need to do something. But don't bring the Constitution into it if you don't do your homework.

Oh, also what does the Statue of Liberty say? “GIVE ME YOUR TIRED, YOUR poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

Also, if any administration was guilty of unConstitutional Acts, it was clearly the Bush administration.

Quit blaming previous administrations for what they did or did not do. Illegal immigration has come to a boiling point under this administration. Their refusal to address this problem only encourages groups like Ready's militia to act. Suing states that are on the front lines of illegal immigration is not the way to go. Outline your immigration reform idea and for goodness sakes please make it "transparent" don't just pass it so we can find out what is in it later.

Agreed!! Pointing fingers and calling names have not done anything to solve the problem. thoughtful honest and open discussion might just work.

@EmanuelS:

This can only be done with immigration reform

Not true. It can be done with the laws that are currently in place. What must be reformed is the politicians' willingness to let law enforcement do their job.

For that goofball posting below you:

Those NAZIS TRASH have no place in this country.

They have as much place as the Black Panthers, who seem to have escaped your righteous wrath. Funny how white guys who actually get out and help the cops--read the article and you'll see they're turning suspects over to the police--catch all your PMS-fueled wrath, while those advocating the murder of whites get a free pass.

They are dangerous and are creating a following of MINDLESS IDIOTS just like HITLER did.

But not on the order of people who mindlessly vote for someone because of his skin color, of course. Or those who mindlessly sign a piece of legislation and tell us we'll all know what's in it after it becomes law, right? Nothing like that...

The illegals did have a place in America at one time in History like it or not. Texas and California were a part of Mexico at one time.

Illegals of any kind have never had a place in America except in jails. I included a link to the definition of illegal for your convenience. That even includes anyone who violated the US' laws as they were in effect in the 18th and 19th centuries. Now, you may have some kind of education in history, but you're sadly lacking in current affairs. California was part of Mexico until it was ceded to us at the end of the Mexican-American war in 1848. That means that since 1848--162 years and change now--California has been part of the US and Mexico no longer has any claim over it. Mexico and the US signed a treaty ceding California to the US and that's the end of that story.

Texas was a different story. Texas rebelled against Mexican authority in 1835 and finally gained its independence in 1836, becoming the Republic of Texas, an independent country. Texas then applied for statehood and received it in 1845. Thus Mexico likewise has no further claim on Texas. Illegals likewise had no place there, as Mexican authorities relaxed immigration rules allowing anyone to occupy Texas when it was a Mexican state; and again when Texas set up its own laws of citizenship; and finally under US laws. No Country for Illegals, to paraphrase the movie's title.

This Country has NEVER been NAZILAND! America it can not be allowed to become that now no matter the reason.

Then we'll hear no more talk of "citizen security forces" or anything approximating the Hitler Jugend, right?

Believe me illegal aliens are tame compared to NAZISM!

Explain that to the dead along the borders, or those who've been kidnapped, or those caught in crossfires between drug cartels. Not all illegals are engaging in these acts, but enough of them are. And how tame can illegals be compared to these neo-Nazis? The neos are actually enforcing the laws without becoming a murderous posse. They're handing suspects over to the police. Looks like these particular Nazis are pretty tame so far.

Today the Illegals, tomorrow the Jews, the next day Gays, then Blacks, then Catholics that is how those FRINGE" element movements gain momentum.

Good, solid liberal tactic: when facts fail, use fear. Especially foolish when you consider that the government does not have any grounds to persecute law-abiding citizens of different racial or ethnic groups and has ample safeguards in place to prevent it. But hey, let's not let reality intrude, shall we?

People turn a BLIND EYE to the TRUTH because of IGNORANCE!

Then what's your excuse? Is your alleged PhD an actual degree bestowed upon someone who's been educated or just a fancy gold star for swallowing liberal indoctrination? Exercise some thought rather than regurgitating liberal garbage.

Ira,

Obama took an oath of office:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Article 9 Section 4 of the Constitution states "The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a republican form of government, "and shall protect each of them against invasion..."

Not only is Obama's administration failing to protect states against invasion, it is actively trying to stop states from protecting themselves.

Please don't preach what you don't understand.

'Those NAZIS TRASH' are out their helping, look here, regardless of what ANY AMERICANS belief is, they ARE American, and THIS group of AMERICANS happen to be helping out, not causing problems. All you people that are bitching about it, I don't see YOU out there OR the "groups that you support". Any help is welcome far as I'm concerned. I find it hard to believe how fast people can start TRASHING AMERICANS and set aside OUR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN! Hitler is dead, give it a break already, just because you don't agree with someone Else's beliefs don't make them bad either, who is the real Nazi's here? That's the problem with this country, we all can recognize a problem, but can never solve one, AND when some one steps out to solve it, that person REGARDLESS of WHO THEY are, are Trash talked and run down by THEIR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN. I don't see all you pussy's that are bitching doing anything about it but running your mouths and talking about things that don't matter anymore. I salute them! THEY ARE AMERICANS, PROTECTING AMERICA! That just happens to be ALL of yous, regardless of your beliefs or color of your skin! Get over it already.

Nice post brian,

The dems love to put some racial or hate monger spin on anything positive and regardless of this guys beliefs, he is out doing something. More than we can say for this administration or the past few.

And the dems know full well what racism and radical hate groups are, they just buried Byrd with praise from Clinton and Obama.

Geesh, it don't get much more hypocritical than that. I expect to see those quotes listed in the Webster Dictionary under the word hypocrite. Meanwhile the NAACP condemns patriots. I don't think Hollywood could have spun a more retarded story.

Obamabots rollout!!

WILBETTA BERRY------------ Et al Tell the inept liar in the white house to do his job, those folks will go home, talk to to Obama, Holder and Nepalitano.

Brian, neo-nazis are un-American. They are out there for their own agenda of hate and intimidation not because they love this country so much. His kind of help is not welcome.

Stop blaming Obama, he just can do anything he wants becasue he is President. He is an intelligent man and believes in doing things the right way. For 8 years the guy I voting for did the wrong things. Besides, this issue has been going on for a very long time, it not Obama fault AND I'm a Rupub not a Demo be fair and honest instead of believing everything RIGHT-WING media tells us. Repubs have got to start thinking for ourselves instead of following our right-wing media nut jobs (not all but most and FOX is mostly commentators not professional journalist people (the Jerry Springer show of the News World get it?)

WOW!! To PistOff08, VERY, VERY well said. Thank You.

Wilberta, where you this outraged by what the New Black Panther idiot had to say? Just wondering...

Wilberta - I agree with you about our government - that is why Obama and Pelosi have to be stopped. Emmanual - try moving to a border town. If you think what we see in AZ is somehow being fabricated by the media then I suggest you actually go to a border town and see what has happened in the last 10 years. It ain't pretty or safe. Bush did a horrible job of protecting and defending our borders now Obama is carrying on that foul tradition. Everyone who hated Bush and loves Obama somehow fails to see that he is doing the same things Bush did - why is ok for one and not the other? It is wrong of both! Obama is no better than Bush. So here we are now - border is over run with Mexican drug cartels and illegal immigrants are running rampant through American towns - AZ is trying to do what the government will not - good for them. If the government would do the one thing that it is actually supposed to do (protect our borders) instead of trying to take over things it is not supposed to deal with then we might not have crazy people taking the law into their own hands. I am very much against the views of these men who are patrolling the border - everyone who is a citizen has a right top be safe and protected from criminals (such as illegal immigrants!) no discrimination is ever right but we must protect ourselves as a country and I do not see that coming from Washington! If it takes armed citizens to do what is right and what the government will not do then our government is in sad shape indeed. We are beginning to look like some third world country and not America any more.

oh and Patrick - great post! You are so right.

Chris your plan for the 1200 looks good, except we can start with non-lethal (rubber ammunition and escalate from there if need be. Many accidental injuries and death still occur when shots are fired into the air, new years cinco de mayo and 4th of july. After watching several of the "Border Crossing Camera" footage (you can find those on you tube ) there are some that show over a period of time, the SAME people and some families including small children on these crossings.

Patrick, you do realize that this president does not take that oath, there has to be one person (unfortunately in this case) that says yes or no to the button If it ever had to come down to that. Not withstanding that one point,

IT IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS collective duty to protect the entire Nation. If they do not, It is our duty to do so. The Oath Patrick mentions not only applies to men and women in uniform, but it is your right to do so, defending yourself from harm, fear, opression, hate, destruction.

We don't need to debate what administrations fault this is, as ITS not relevant, choose to do something or don't, (the government you believe in) will eventually choose for you. We don't need to keep discussing what it is, we all know what it is. GET UP AND DO SOMETHING (help get the laws accurately enforced, help get the borders protected, donate to charity, ) or you can just sit here, and talk about it.

dan, that's f-king sick. If we get any more neo-pinheads or Mexican carteleros -- all of whom seem to carry assault rifles these days -- then we're going to have to pull troops from Afghanistan and send them here to defend the SANE people from all the crazies!

I'll tell you what the REAL threat to our country is. It's people who REACT when they should THINK.

Have you ever noticed that virtually all extremists of any kind are emotional instead of rational?

There are two sides, if not more, to every story and the truth will always lie somewhere in between.

And let's set the record straight about the 'right wing' and 'left wing' stuff. Left-wing liberals, for those of us in the modern United States, would be toward the TOTALITARIANISM end of the spectrum. Socialist, Marxist, Communist, Fascist, Nazi, whatever. Totalitarianism, as in 'total government control', or at least government control in everything that matters. Right-wing reactionaries, in the world as we know it now, would be towards the ANARCHY end of the spectrum. 'Rugged individualism' is what you'll often hear, but any attitude of 'it's every man for himself', or any kind of 'to hell with everybody else' attitude lies in this range.

Obviously, neither one is desirable. Fortunately, few of us believe that strongly either way.

Remember that 'liberal' and 'conservative' are relative. In colonial America, the 'conservatives' were the loyalists who wanted to remain subjugated to King George in England and the 'liberals' were the revolutionaries who signed the Declaration of Independence and waged war against the British. Once the US was established for a generation or three, our American way became 'conservative' and most anything counter to it would be 'liberal'. The North was the 'conservative' side of the Civil War and the South were the 'liberals' for breaking away to form the Confederate States of America. European conservatism is the old world order of monarchies everyone there lived under from before the Dark Ages until about World War I. Any form of government that is not royalty or nobility running the show would be 'liberal'.

People trying to assert that the Nazis were conservative need to remember that the National Socialists were just one generation removed from the Kaiser's reign, which ended when he said 'That's it, I'm outta' here' and abdicated the throne near the end of WWI. The conservatives were the German Heeres, or Army, staffed by blue blooded officers with 'von' in front of their surnames. They absolutely hated Hitler, because he made them do all kinds of foolish stuff while the Waffen SS armed wing of the Nazi party got all the best weapons and supplies. Why Hitler didn't have all of the existing military establishment executed to get them out of his way has puzzled many historians ever since the 1930's. Most all of them were conspiring to knock Hitler off but were never quite able to get the job done.

The more modern government (the Weimar Republic) that had to be formed to fill the vacuum was the one that surrendered to the Allies in November of 1918, and it would've been somewhat to the left of the Kaiser's rule. Nazism was another step further to the left, but certainly not as far to the left as what was happening in the Soviet Union. Under a National Socialist/Fascist type of rule, you had a strong national chancellor or other leader who was somewhat like a king, but a parliament type legislature was making the laws, unless it was disbanded due to an 'emergency', like total war. Both communism and Nazism had only one political party that not everyone was welcome to join; all others were outlawed.

A citizen had much more freedom than in a communist government and could own their own property, including businesses. The rub was that the fascist government basically told you how to run that business and if you had any ideas of defying that, you would regret it.

In both cases, your freedom of speech and pretty much anything the US Constitution guarantees are either nonexistent or at the least very uncertain.

For contrast, a good king or queen who largely kept out of his or her citizens' lives or a good government like ours in the US where you could do what you want, within reason, would be center right. Much of Africa, lots of Asia, and the western frontier of 1800's America would be far right - the only real law was the 'law of the jungle', or the survival of the fittest.

Dan, excellent point! And to think Rommel took North Africa with a mere six Pz Div. I think two SS-Totenkopf divisions would lock down our border pretty good. Alas, in the real world, Arizona can't even get the few-hundred impotent National Guards troops Obama promised.

The TiGor alternates between good sense and non-sense.

Totalitarian is not the left. Nor is the right anarchy. Most people considered the anarchists to be far left. The Nazis were as far right as one can be. Both the far right and the far left are totalitarian. Nazis and Fascists are far right. Communists are far left. The extremist nationalism, racism, militartism, etc. which characterized the Nazis is extreme right wing.

The word "socialist" in "National Socialist" seems to confuse people, or is now used as an excuse by the right wing to compare liberals to nazis. Let's get real; the Nazis put the word "socialist" in their name because they thought it would get them poular support. The word "socialist" in National Socialist makes as much sense as the word "democratic" in German Democratic Republic. In fact the term "National Socialist" is totally incoherent; "Nationalist" and "socialist" are two mutually contradictory terms. The Nazis were the most extreme nationalists, and there was absolutely nothing in their policies, platforms, activities, or even propaganda that had anything to do with socialism or anything that would be in any way left of center. The Nazis never talked about class or defending workers. They were all about race, hatred, violence, militarism, mass murder, and destruction. If you were an Aryan, they didn't care what class you were, you were of the superior race. If you were a non-Aryan, you were sub-human, regardless of your social class.

PLEASE NOTE however, that this does not mean that Nazis were "conservative". When we say "conservative" and "liberal", we are talking democratic people, who believe in freedom and democratic values. Nazis are not conservative and communists are not liberal; conservatives are not Nazis and liberals are not communists. Can everyone get that straight?! Can we all stop comparing people who compete fairly in elections and believe in the freedoms guaranteed in our constitution to totalitarian monsters?!?!

Nobody wants people violating laws, but I don't Nazis of any kind claiming to be defending America. Naziism is as un-American as you can possibly be. The US stands for equality for all, freedom, and human rights. Nazis are the opposite of all that is American. The US played the major role in saving the world from the Nazi barbarian monsters, and they are a disgrace to humanity. I am ashamed to be of the same species as the Nazis. And yes, the nazis, who when in power ran a terrorist police state, started the worst war in history, and deliberately murdered nearly 12 million innocent civilians during the war -- that's more than 4 people per minute for the entire length of World War II -- ARE a much greater danger to the US than illegal aliens.

If obama did his job properly, he wouldn't be able to destabalize America as his original plans call for.

Wilberta Berry and your friends,

Can you or your whiny ultra-liberal moron buddies say anything except Nazi, Fascist, or Racist? It seems that your vocabulary is fairly limited between your lack of other terms and the expletives that you use. Do you have any concept of what Nazi or Fascist means besides a 10 minute lesson in an American History class from the 9th grade?

I have two uncles that are residents of Colleville-Sur-Mer and another great-uncle that resides at Henri-Chapelle. I am personally aware what these terms really mean; you have no clue! Before you start shouting about things that you can't even contemplate outside of a classroom debate, perhaps you would be better served to take a stroll through one of the cemeteries that I mentioned. Real people paid a high price so that you have the right to rant like a lunatic about something that you cannot even contemplate. Grow up and learn something about the real world and what the freedom to venomously spew these words REALLY cost people!

And just WHO exactly ruled Arizona's law to be unconstitutional, Nazi, or Fascist and who declared the people that support enforcing our laws, as written to be the same? The Courts, the Voters, the media, or maybe it was the Great Pumpkin? Or was it just YOU and your buddies that deemed it to be so (like Pelosi "Deems" things done)? It doesn't count if its just an opinion put forth by Franco de Lostinspace, JD (an attorney in the law firm of Dewey, Cheatem and Howe). Sorry, Charlie ... get a grip.

Here is a suggestion for you all; just sit back, take you Thorazine, and go back to sleep. Nurse Ratched will be in to check on you later and schedule your Lobodomy. You really are beyond help.

Yes, I know Thorazine and Lobodomies have bad side effects, but as it is said in Latin:

"extremis malis extrema remedia" - "extreme remedies for extreme ills!"

Mr R

The only problem with using non-lethal devices is that people (especially the worst that you will face) KNOW that you are using non-lethal force. It makes them that much bolder and that much more willing to challenge and try to fight the Marines.

If people do as they are told, noshots are fired. I they try to scatter and disobey their instructions, a couple of round in the air will wake them up without hurting someone. If they want to get crazy and start shooting at the Marines, then they have Real problem on their hands.

Like I said earlier, its first about getting their attention and the keeping it ( "Turn your head and Cough"). When you greatly diminish the prospects of success, people start thinking "Is this REALLY worth the chance?" As long as it looks like you can get away with it, the chances are you will continue trying (like breaking the speed limit or driving drunk).

The Problem the way the Republicans and Mexicans want to do it will make things worse than it will help!!! Obama knows if he does the right thing before the Election... The Republicans will win and the People will lose!!!

Chris, can you actually read your own words and not see something wrong? You can actually look at this law Arizona is trying to pass and NOT see the racist overtones in it? And from a state that has already faced more than enough questions as to it's racial tolerance in the past?
Simply having a relative that died in a war does not make YOU aware of what words like fascist or nazi mean. Most of America has a family somewhere that died in any number of the terrible wars over the last century.
Bean-bag rounds in a shotgun look amazingly enough like buckshot rounds in a shotgun.
And what is with all the "illegal alien speeding and/or driving drunk posts? How many AMERICANS kill other PEOPLE in the US daily while driving drunk and/or speeding? Is your information coming from a credible reliable source or from some politicians' mouth? Be advised credible reliable source means someone who has gone to an accredited school in an accredited field of study. Simply having a book published by an agenda pushing media outlet does not grant you credibility.

This is for the benefit of Puregoldj or anyone else who is 'confused':

First, go back and carefully reread my post, number 3.28.

Perhaps you are 'living' in some other place or some other time. 'Conservative' and 'Liberal' are not absolutes. They are opposites, but they are relative to when and where you are. Think of it this way: My house is on the east side of my street. Is it on the right side of the street, or the left side of the street? It depends on whether you're approaching it from the north, or from the south.

Where we are accustomed to being in America today, which is pretty close to 'center', the concept of having people who are supposedly smarter/wiser/more competent than average controlling everything of consequence in our lives, aka 'nanny state', is far to the left of where we are. The idea of no control and little or no government at all is to the extreme right. In other words, what many people fancy the TEA party members as desiring.

The only thing that makes 'anarchy' to the left would be 1) if you and your family have lived under some form of monarchy for a long time, it is what you know and are comfortable with. 'Anarchists', trying to crumble that monarchy, would certainly be 'liberal' relative to where you are. And, 2) Extreme leftist agitators, a.k.a. 'Anarchists', , PROMOTED anarchy in hopes of discrediting the existing government they wanted to replace. They were NOT really 'anarchists', they were LIARS. wasThe anarchist bit was only something they would be doing to accomplish a goal, which was the collapse of the existing government they wanted to 'expose' as FAILED, namely by assisting in its downfall. As soon as that would happen, the 'anarchists' were suddenly wearing their 'communist' hats again and now promoting THEIR cause. The line: The old government NO GOOD! IT FAILED! Follow US, WE are the ANSWER you are looking for!

Like I said, it's tricky. Most of us are too honest to think like that. This is why spy novels and movies did so well since about 1900, which was about the era when Marxism was really gaining traction. 'Right wingers' are straightforward simpletons. They tend to be brutish and not too much fun. Leftists are quite intriguing, and their 'plot twists' are ready-made book and movie material, not to mention what makes them so appealing...

Okay, maybe some confusion still exists because some are certain not to have comprehended a key element of my post #3.28.

The National Socialists campaigned on a progressive-leftist platform, and most of the people who voted for them were not people who normally voted. They were the people who normally didn't care about politics, feeling that no one cared or listened to them, anyway. The normal voters were so fed up with everything, most of them gave up and did not turn out to vote. Sound familiar?

Now, what you need to remember was the June of 1934 uprising within the Sturmarbeitung, the 'Night of the Long Knives'. The party members, some seven hundred of them, who were there for the progressive-leftist aspect of Nazism, were hunted down and KILLED by the other fraction of the party that was there for the racial and ethnic purity wing of the party. In other words, the 'Nationalists' MURDERED the 'Socialists'.

Again, the Nazis came to power as (European style) SOCIALISTS, but after less than a year in power became more of a (European style) right wing organization.

Also, anyone who thinks they had to expend any real brain power deciding it was the Jews to use as scapegoats should know that the Jews had been hated in Europe for over a thousand years. It wasn't really the Jews' fault, either. They had always been outcasts, which to their benefit meant they weren't included in and therefore not restrained by European social class customs. They could do whatever they wanted to, which they did to their advantage, and it served them very well. They didn't have to play the same traditional 'rules' every else had to. Unfortunately, a later generation of the same people who excluded them came to resent the fact that they were successful living outside of the caste system. This would've been in the 1800's. Jews were being 'squeezed' long before Hitler was born, let alone a public figure of any sort. And again, the fault lies almost exclusively with European society, not with the Jews. They did the best they could with the hand they were dealt, and everyone else seemed to have a big problem with that.

Go figure.

ZenFreedom

You can actually look at this law Arizona is trying to pass and NOT see the racist overtones in it?

When you (collective and your friends) run out of things to cry, you cry RACIST. If a Black Cop stops a White Speeder, is that racist just as you would suggest that a white cop stopping a brown person for anything will always be? I am neither black nor white. I am a mixture of Scottish, Irish, Eastern Cherokee, Creek, and Louisiana Cajun that, in a less politically correct time would have been called "Mulatto." My family was multi-racial long be it became "en vogue." In calling me a recist, which side and part of my family do you want to hate? Does it mean that any time a cop stops me for doing 65 in a 35 zone, an illegal turn, or even J-walking, I can cry Racist and say "You're only picking on me because I'm an "All of the Above!"

Simply having a relative that died in a war does not make YOU aware of what words like fascist or nazi mean. Most of America has a family somewhere that died in any number of the terrible wars over the last century.

First, the two cemeteries that I mentioned are those built to bury the dead that died to defeat Nazism and Fascism. Have you ever been to one of them and seen what it cost to defeat them? Probably Not! You spew words and label things that you don't like as Nazism or Fascism because the word alone conjures up images of Treblinka or Dachau but all you know is a passage in your history book.

I served with the 3rd Marines in Vietnam and I lived in Europe during the death throws of the former Soviet Union. My son served with the UN Peacekeepers in the Balkans. Tell em I don't know what Fascism is compared to your view.

Bean-bag rounds in a shotgun look amazingly enough like buckshot rounds in a shotgun.

And I take it that you are an expert about being fired upon? Might I suggest you try being on the line for a while and see how well that works. Lets see how you like being shot at and having only bean bags to respond with. (Oh, that's right, you don't believe in defending anything; Just let someone else do it for you or let everybody come on in, no problem.)

And what is with all the "illegal alien speeding and/or driving drunk posts? How many AMERICANS kill other PEOPLE in the US daily while driving drunk and/or speeding?

Again, like the whiny liberal, you took half of a statement (half truth) and used it to justify your lie. My statement is not about Illegal Aliens but rather the fact that if there is no consequence for breaking the law, you will continue to do it. My statement was:

When you greatly diminish the prospects of success, people start thinking "Is this REALLY worth the chance?" As long as it looks like you can get away with it, the chances are you will continue trying (like breaking the speed limit or driving drunk).

As long as there is a chance you will get away with something, you will continue doing it. It doesn't matter if it is cheating on taxes, running a red light, speeding or driving drunk. If you THINK that you will get away with it, most people will do it. That statement had Nothing to do with Illegal Aliens.

First, I think you need to go back and read the definition of "mulatto" because none of the races you claim as ancestry were ever slaves.

Second, I didn't call you a racist. I said the law has racist overtones. I don't know you as a person, just as you don't know me as a person. I've been in the military for 14 years now. I'm on my third deployment in Afghanistan as I'm writing this. My father was in the military for my whole life. I've never lived in one place for more than five years at a time, so maybe I'm a little more tolerant of other people.

Expert at being fired upon? I've got a little experience in that department. Bean Bag rounds? I was a military policeman for some of that time, so I've got some experience there as well.

And your final two points prove what I'm saying about the law in the first place. As long as police can justify their actions in writing (I was a military policeman, I've seen people get away with, and were even told how to do it by their superiors, things that turned my stomach) they can get away with whatever they want.

As to your attacks on my character: I do speed occasionally (according to my wife I still drive like an old woman), I don't drink and drive, I belive in freedom from oppression and learning and thinking for yourself so that you can make informed decisions, and I have a strong belief in karma and logic. Now, I can't remember making any personal attacks against you in my post, but that's ok, people are raised differently.

Chris and Zen-

Thank you for your service. Zen - thank your father too. You are correct Zen about what they can get away with. When laws are this poorly constructed they lead to abuses. This is such a hot topic that it is as if we are begging for an opportunity to mistreat someone and no one will care to do a thing about it. It reminds me of Mississippi in 1964. While it is true little has been done from either party to remedy the situation on immigration, I worry that we will turn back in time to what we were in the 60's. We cannot allow that to happen. I don't care what label you assign it.

Thank you for your understanding and well wishes Kathy. They are much appreciated!

Kathy - the Arizona law is not poorly constructed it is very clear. Why do you and others automatically assume that there will be racial profiling and the abusing of people based on race? The law enforcement agents of AZ have been doing this job for a long time - the new law just helps give them the ability to do their job better not different. I have not heard of any horror stories from AZ about racial profiling in the past have you? If it is not an issue now it will not be an issue when the law passes. People who have nothing better to do than look for reasons to cry "racist" are the ones who have made the AZ law even an issue to begin with. Unfortunately our own President falls under that category too apparently. Sad.

@Kathy -- The bizarre thing is that so many people assume Arizona cops will start harassing Latinos. If that were the case, then why haven't they been doing that for all these years? Do people think this new law will suddenly bring out the "inner racist" in a bunch of cops who have been doing a good job and respecting people's legal rights all these years?

This new law changes very little in the day-to-day performance of the duties of an Arizona cop. If you get stopped, there is a reason. Maybe you did nothing wrong, or maybe you're guilty of something either civil or criminal. That's why we have courts -- innocent until proven guilty, even when the cop says his radar gun shows you were doing 77 mph in a 65 mph zone, you're still innocent until proven guilty.

He will run your license through his computer, and find out all about your criminal record (if you have one), any outstanding warrants and unpaid court fines or parking tickets.

And with the new law, he will exercise his judgment of you and the circumstances of that legal stop, and in some cases might decide that your legal status to be in this country should be checked with the ICE computer. If you truly are a citizen or legal resident, it should be no trouble to convince him of that.

Do you have ID? Do you have a Social Security number that will match the name on your ID when he runs it through the computer? If you don't have either of those, do you live in the area and have family that can go get your ID for you? And if you don't speak a lick of English, that's not really a problem because about 1 out of 3 cops here are Latino, so if the one who pulled you over doesn't speak Spanish, either his partner does, or they can quickly get another cop on-scene who can communicate with you in your native language and clear up any misunderstanding about your legal right to be in this country.

How is that like Mississippi in 1964?

So, you condone illegals killing Americans?

Shouldn't you be on vacation in Maine right now?

And thier babies, but the NAACP had to have this pointed out to them before they would repudiate The New Black Panthers - racism at its finest.

Not a problem we know now and we know that the federal governmnet does not intend to stop the panthers from trying to intimidate voters.

Not a problem we were handling this before Obama was born we can take care of it now.

Panthers, don't come to polls with a club

RACE WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*watches from afar; eats popcorn*

Conservatives need to get real and face up to the fact that neo-nazis and fascists of all sorts make up the majority of their constituency.

Or, just parrot some other's propaganda comments.

(I'm getting downvoted in 3...2...1...)

As I've said before, who in their right mind would want to be a Border Guard. Remember the two Guards (wish I could remember their names) wounded a know drug dealer trying to cross the border, and THEY were sent to prison! Makes my blood boil ever time I think of the injustice done to OUR BORDER GUARDS. P.S. The &^%$#%^ drug dealer lived.

Patrich: The Marines would be to good for them!!! They should join the Tarriest Organization... They fit better with them and at least we know who our enemy is!!! They are the ones coming here doing the mass killing...

So, who would implement your "simple solution" - prosecution/incarceration of employers? A pink fairy? She needs to be paid too though...

Simple solution? Legalize marijuana. Demand goes down, smuggling goes down, tax revenue goes up, Mexico drug war goes down and I can then legally sprinkle it on my pizza. Even with that all done I'd still keep a safe distance from Arizona.

Your solution is definitely 100% better than NAZILAND. So, I second that motion.

Arizona is one of the few states that require E-Verify to verify a person's legal right to work here before hiring them. The idiots in Congress decided to make it voluntary, but Arizona made it mandatory, beginning in 2007.

Naturally, that Arizona employer sanctions law is being challenged. The Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case. Who knows, maybe the Supremes will decide that it's unconstitutional for Arizona to fine employers who hire illegal aliens, or to require them to spend 5 minutes running an E-Verify check.

A bigger problem though is identity theft. It is estimated that 75% of long-term illegal aliens have legal ID in someone else's name -- driver's license, Social Security card, the works.

So how is a business owner supposed to know that the guy standing before him is not actually "Julio A. Rodriguez" from Los Angeles, California -- an American citizen allowed to work in this country -- and not in fact a guy whose real name is "Rodrigo J. Martinez" from the Mexican state of Chiapas, who has been living here illegally with a fake ID for the last 12 years?

Simple solutions are never very simple when you try to implement them.

Wilberta, Please for the sake of everyone on the Vine, reveal what University you teach at. So that parents can have a heads up on where not to send their children. I've read your posts and can hear your frustration. However as a History Professor how can you condone the legalization of narcotics? What the hell are you thinking? When in the history of this country was there any benefit at all with legal narcotics? Heroin,Morphine,Cocaine,Opium,Marijuana were at one time all legal. To second "wje37fcsm" brain dead pizza solution is to say your PHD is your problem. If you came from the streets before College you need to go back out there. If not, you need to go out there and really listen to what's going on.

I second that

I think this artilce might answer a few of those questions fender,,,,,,,

http://www.hermes-press.com/prisons_drugs.htm

Now remember fenderbluesjr,

We just overlook Wilberta. She/he is always using ghetto correct grammar, and probably doesn't have a degree, or the proper abbreviation would be used. Or maybe, just maybe, she has a working girls PHD.

Then send back the Illegals and everyone would have a good paying job today!!!

Yep!

That is what HATE and RACE BAITING and INSECURITY leads to a ticking time bomb!

We don't need to worry about the people in the Middle East.

The danger to America is Home Grown!

true story!

Okay girls, we have an open, unguarded border there coutesy of an administration, that wants to let them all in and make voters out of them.

Sooner or later, some one will cross that border carrying a suitcase nuke, or a couple of hundred pounds of biological warfare toxins, that will kill several hundred thousand american citizens.

After that you can forget about fair, legal and constitutional,

There will be supporters of the criminal aliens hanging from every light pole in the country and the rest of them will be hiding in their basements hoping no one remembers they were aiding and abetting the criminal aliens.

When it happens, I will catch the first train out of the country, I'm getting to old to watch that stuff.

Mid: It amazes me that you think you can frame this problem as something that's only recently happened during the Obama Admin. If you recall, but you probably weren't listening, Bush Jr. wanted amnesty for the current illegals during his administration. Ronald Reagan actually enacted an amnesty program while he was in office. Both were Republicans. Now, you try to use this problem to demonize the Dems, as if it's been nearly three decades since anyone's delt with it. That's nuts.

As far as terrorists, I don't think they'll be lugging a $hit load of bomb making materials on their backs, in unbelievable heat with no water or food, to light up a bomb in a boarder town that contains mostly immigrants from Mexico. These aren't even soft targets, they're air targets. I think a bunch of Arab speaking, unMexican looking guys may stand out!

What terrorists want is an efficient way to import the suicide bombers. In our current situation, and based on several incidences, it appears they are being recruited from inside this country. Our boarder with Mexico is about drugs, not terrorists.

Neo-Nazis are definitely not the answer to our boarder problem. In fact, I'm quite sure that, given time, they'll be using tactics that will involve inhumane treatment that will give the US another black eye. These people are simply opportunists, just like so many other fringe extremist groups that have glommed onto the Tea Party conservative movement. Now they're doing it for the "Immigration Solution Movement".

It's a crock and this country has lost it's mind.

SMOKEYS--------- I'm pragmatic, what I know is that Barack Obama is the president of the US and charged with the security of the country.

I also know that that border is standing open, criminal aliens and drug runners cross it daily.

As far as terrorists crossing it, they have in the past and will do so again.

They can do it about anyway they want to.

The bomb will not be set off in a border town doofus, it will go to Houston, Phoenix, Dallas LA or San Diego, why not, once in the country it can go anywhere.

You people are still trying to defend Obama or the criminal aliens, I say again, when it happens and it will, it's just a matter of time, you folks are going to be in very deep doodoo

We have more corruption going on today in this Country than we ever had in our whole life time... But what can you expect after Bush stowed 2 elections and Started a war so He and Cheney can get richer!!! Until the People vote the Republicans out of office and take this Country back from the Rich... The People will be the losers as we are now!!!

Oh? How do you know that?

In what way is Arizona anything like 1930's Germany? Please finish your comment with actual facts that show an actual comparison with similar acts being committed? Where is the mass murder and genocide? Where are the laws that prevent people of one race from marrying another?

In what exact was was the last adminstration Fascist?

Please support your ridiculous comments with some facts.

BLS-744646

No you are the new 2010 Antagonist!!!!!!!!!

You are so wrong. This country is being beaten from within. What happens when company keeps coming and you keep adding water to the soup? No substance and everybody goes hungrey.

WorldGoneCrazy:

As an American, I would like to think we have the facility and foresight to stop this before there are any examples. Lots of us (on the left) don't like the fact that ANY persons are coming here illegally, but I would rather have that than persons, militia groups and state governments taking over that responsibility when immigration is still CLEARLY jurisdiction of the federal government.

That being said, OF COURSE there should be more done by the government about this problem. I just don't think it justifies what Arizona did. The problem is, when Arizona does this, then Virginia passes a law that they have the right to check all citizens I.D's (for immigration)at any time, then Montana says they can detain anyone without a Montana issued State I.D. and on..... and on....and on.......Imagine when 5 states say all air traffic flying over their land must land in their state to do an I.D. check

This scenario seems wayyyy out of hand, but it is literally possible and I, personally would not like it to go to that.

Oh, and to your last request, Passing of certain portions of the Patriot Act would serve as a fine example of fascism.

Please finish your comment with actual facts that show an actual comparison with similar acts being committed? Where is the mass murder and genocide? Where are the laws that prevent people of one race from marrying another?

Wilberta, we don't accept socialism either. That's why we are not fans of Barry.

Hey Suzy, I thought the tea party related Obama to Hitler, which obviously isn't a good comparison because you call Obama a socialist.

So, which is it?

Well said SuzyQ! There is a German saying that goes," Einie Gutten Schwine Frisk Allas", please forgive me Herr Dragonwagon on my Deutsch grammar. It means," A good pig will eat anything". I heard it from some German tradesmen I worked with. I thought it meant to them,we can do the job correct for a price. But,if you want it to just look O.K. for now, a lesser price. I knew what it really meant watching a Chicago Machine Democrat being elected President.

Wilberta, I'll take Neo-Nazis any day over your New Black Panther Party. At least the Neos in this article are trying to help the government rather than suck the life out of it.

Moreover, I've still not heard any Dem or Lib repudiate, denounce the NBPP. I guess you folks are so desperate to hold onto power that you'll take a vote any which way you can get it.

Not sure anyone has said they feel safe from this guy, however, I would rather have this guy on my front lawn watching out for me over the feds who are nowhere to be seen.

Hmmm... A gun wearing American protecting my rights or the politicians who are on vacation this weekend... hmmm... tough choice...

I will take the guy with the gun.

MonroeC

Republicans SUCK! Democrats reciprocate by doing nothing about the Illegal aliens.

It took pressure from the border state lawmakers for GW to do the right thing and Pardon the two Border Patrol Police. Remember they were arrested tried and jailed under the Bush Administration for trying to protect the Borders.

Another history fail from the alleged history teacher. Their sentences were commuted. They were not pardoned. You can't even glean that from your own posting.

Well that makes GW Bush even worse now doesn't it.

It still shows the Bush Administration didn't give a rats ass about PROTECTING the borders.

Because he pardoned 14 people some were even convicted criminals and he couldn't

even PARDON the border Patrol Police who were trying to do their jobs.

By killing a convicted drug smuggler who was also an illegal Mexican.

So you point is what?

WILBETA BERRY------ Well you are tright about one thing we don't have to worry about Obama prosecuting the Border Patrol, apparently, he doesn't intend to prosecute anyone for anything, especiall if they are black, or criminal aliens.

Why are you on the vine complaining why arent you on the horn to the white house telling Obama, Holder and nepalitano to do their job.

Ah never mind we have a grand jury waiting for all three of them in Feb, of 2012 after we throw the inept liar out of the white house.

The Nazi Tea Party Americas version of the Taliban. You better not be Illegal, Jewish ,Asian

Gay. Black, or Catholic. If you are you are the source of their problems and it's only a matter of time before you will be put in their cross hairs.

Because that is how ALL extremest do it one group of people at a time.

I guess we should just toss the Constitution and start a Bonfire with it.

Wilberta Berry IF she has a PhD in History as claimed ( doubtful) demonstrates that it takes no brains to get one in that particular field. Probably have to have leftist professors and be able to parrot that sort of garbage. It shows her general lack of education and understanding and definitely a lack of intelligence, she epitomizes the old saying PhD = Piled Higher and Deeper. The sad part is that there is NO gainful employment for a history PhD except teaching and unfortunately she'd be spreading her misguided "truths" to innocent minds.

As a history teacher your a fraud. "The Nazi Tea Party America(s?) version of the taliban"? This country was founded inpart by untrained militia,it took a General to train ,organize and lead them. In case you stepped out of class that day for a pot laced pizza and missed the lesson check a dollar bill for his name. But before we move forward 234 years to examine what are current General is doing. Nice spin on the Tea Party Movement and the Nazi's! That was good. Boston Tea Party,no taxation without representation. And the Nazi's,burn the books,re-write history,say it loud enough,long enough,til they believe it!

Ademocrat is the only know parasite that feeds on it's own species.

Why would the Republicans want to protect Our Boarders??? They use the Illegals to keep the wages down so they can make more money!!! Get rid of the Illegals and the wages would go up and everyone would have a job... That is the American way not the Republicans way!!!

lmk02

I'm a little confused by your posts....first a Democrat is now in office (Obama) and the argument that "Why would the Republicans want to protect Our Boarders??? They use the illegals to keep the wages down so they can make more money!!" in your post #9.11 really doesn't apply right now....Democrats hold the majority of power at this time. That is them main point to this vine....that the Democrats aren't doing anything about illegal immigration.

Before anyone tells me "it's Bush's fault or a Republicans fault" I am trying to clarify where lmk02 stands with his last statement "That is the American way not the Republican way!!!" because at this point, again in my opinion, that statement can be said of Democrats too.

it seems you might have had a valid point...up until you said "Nazi's are good people compared....". Under no cirmcumstances, EVER, should you try to make a point by saying Nazi's are good...you just underminded your entire argument.

Nazi's are gooooood people as compared cult of unregulatedcriminal capitalist that have infiltrated the government.

boy are your priorities fuched up.these two faction are right about on the same demented level. gobackin time to germany between 1933 and 1945that's how long your good people were in power. then live through the hell of it and come back and chirp the same tune. i doubt it. you'll change your tune really quick.

Nazi's are good people compared to the alien cult

No doubt an IQ of 55 with several rusting bullet riddled cars on his property. Just looking to blame someone for his failures.

An IQ of 55? Aren't you being a bit generous?

I guess it is better to kill innocent People than it is to help the Middle Class and Poor People right???

The border with Mexico is 1970 miles long. How many "watchers" do you think we'd need? So, when you say the feds aren't doing anything, tell me, what more could they be doing? Oh, and remember, that they have a budget they need to consider.

The problem is that this is essentially vigilante justice, which doesn't fly in this country, or it's not supposed to anyways because, you know, it's illegal...think about it.

Well Karl honey it sure as hell is flying now. i smell TROUBLE with a capital T.

Because as long as they can't get jobs in Mexico... It is better to take the jobs need in the United States!!! That way both problems are solved... hen our wages gets down to theirs and the rest of the Low Wages Country... Then they will be able to go back to Their Country to live with a better sorry than they get there now!!!

And the people who are supposed to uphold the law, protect us from this shouldn't be convicted of fraud and murder?

Wow, get a clue.

In Texas, there are bullet ridden buildings from the drug cartels shooting across the border. Again, where is the feds? Oh, they are too busy enacting special interest laws to give a fly crap about people on the borders. Sorry, I forgot.

Do something productive, pick up a gun and go help.

We are on our own.

Right on.

pat-700429 -- Murder is pretty routine out here on the wild west Arizona-Mexico border frontier. Mexican criminals who live in Mexico but "work" in Arizona cross the border every single day, and they are armed. They shoot at law enforcement agents, both state & federal, and have even killed a few. Sometimes rival Mexican gang members just kill each other. They bring not only drugs but also human cargo, and treat both the same -- just another bag full of sh*t that's worth some cash if they deliver to the guy at the other end.

Bodies, or what's left of them after the animals get them, are found all the time out in the desert. Many are never identified. Probably many more are killed and even never found.

Hopefully the body count will soon include some neo-Nazis. We could afford to lose a few of them...actually, we could afford to lose all of them.

To try and convict someone in a U.S. court, first you have to catch them. The Feds can't even catch the 1200 illegal immigrants a day that cross that border undetected -- they only catch about one out of 4 people (that's THEIR official estimate) -- and yet they manage to catch an average of about 400 people a day.

What do you think the chances are of them catching a neo-Nazi murderer whose crime was committed in the middle of nowhere? How about a Mexican drug cartel murderer? The chances are slim to none.

Probably the best we can hope for is that the bad guys will all kill each other, and we can solve two problems at once. The whites-only neo-Nazis are just as deserving of a bullet as the smuggler who rapes an illegal immigrant teenage Mexican girl he's escorting into this country.

Listen to the idiots on here defennding NAZIS!! If this doesn't say everything about the morons supporting the Arizona law, I don't know what does. Keep it up fools. You've just lost any decent American.

The only Crinimals in this Country are the Illegals and the Republicans... They both live off of the Americans People money and jobs!!!

ummm..sorry...but your rant is extremely misguided. If there are illegals being hired, bitch about those doing the hiring..bitch about the feds not doing their jobs when it comes to the LAW that says an illegal cannot be hired.

Your government hasn't failed you..it is the greedy business owners who have failed the government.

Think you might change your tune when he wants to rid the country of everyone he doesn't like. tell you what. I don't like southerns and think we should hunt them down and kill them. My right?

Scalzo I like you! roflmao!!!

We'll miss you when you're gone.

Really, we will.

Chris-the post makes no sense.Some great ideas there- could you look at paragraphs- nothing makes sense, when reading this.
Wilberta Barry- Hope that Nesvine rescinds your rights
"Throw them on the Bonfire", "lets kill them all" and your first or one of your first posts shows what the educational system really is- bad grammar- and you are a teacher?God save our children learning from you
Think the 2 of you need to take a vacation- bigoted, nasty articles do not belong here, and I am sure are a violation of the Code of Honor here, but maybe I am the stupid one
Wilberta- you have been an issue with many posts-= how about saving all of us- just one cohesive post.You sound like you heat up, and get nastier.Would you please tell us where you teach, in order that your school district could read some of your posts.PLEASE??

Who would want to do that type of labor for less than Minimum wags but the Illegals!!! They would have to bring labor to at least the cost of living to get Americans to do that work...

The only brain dead Americans are those who actually believe that the likes of Limbaugh, Beck or Palin have anything significant to contribute to the future of this country. The dumbing of America is a GOP campaign strategy..and the ones they've 'dumbed'?...the ones who vote for them.

At least we finally have a President who has the guts to stand up for middle-class Amercians by reigning in the greed mongers of the financial and insurance sectors of corporate Amercia. The days of these industries sticking it to hard-working Americans are over and for those of you who insist on blaming EVERYTHING on the President, get over it already! When I lost my job, I didn't blame it on the president and expect him to find me a job. I got out there and looked for anything I could find to support my family. Americans are spoiled and lazy and want it all handed to them. If your industry has closed, move to another location or retrain for another trade or skill. There are ways and means, people just like to complain, its the American way!

cardog, I bet all the Black members of the Tea Partiers would be surprised to heaar that they are "racist ; and for DC Smith, I can tell he is a product of the schools controlled by dimowits-- in a word "uneducated" but brainwashed ( what little there is of it ); The democrats have consistently over the years dragged down the standards in our schools, yet you sip the koolaide and try to blame the republicans. Now go vote and collect your 5 dollars.

D for common sens, Too bad you don't have any, Obama has behaved exactly like a classical socialist and taken over two automobile companies, and a couple of financial firms while cramming so called "healthcare reform" down the throats of Americans. The only group sticking it to the American people is the congress as run by the democrats who think the answer to everything is to tax the working citizens and hand it out to the lazy, taking a sizable bite for themselves. Obama is a clueless Community Organizer that has never worked a day in his life and had zero experience to be president and is totally incompetent in the position.

The black members of the TeaBaggers? What, colonialgirl, all TWO of them. You're obviously one of the Americans that your party has 'dumbed down'.

Right it is the fault of the Black Panther for the mess we have in this Country!!! You notice I didn't mention the Muslin in that statement???

Do any of you even know what the definition of a socialist is? Can you come up with any argument of your own design? Something you haven't heard put out by political news "analyst"? Do the majority of those opposed to Obama's presidency ever proof read your posts before making them? There's a reason most people assume your cause is born from uneducated reactionary extremists.

What are you talking about? Worried why?

I agree with you about the beauty of Arizona. When I was younger I backpacked in the Superstition Mountain Wilderness and what I wondrous place. Did you ever live near Apache Junction?

SDG, indeed you SHOULD weep. I once did a 4WD trip along El Camino Del Diablo, which is not too far north of the Mexican border. Today it would be suicide to take that trip, and I don't mean because of the summer heat, I mean because you would be shot by Mexican drug cartel members for invading "their" territory -- in Arizona!!!

Arizona truly is one of the most beautiful and diverse states, and has every climate zone on the planet except tropical. But it's diversity also includes human diversity, people from all over the U.S. and from other countries including but not only Mexico. We have more Native Americans than any other state besides Alaska, and unlike most tribes, the Arizona-based tribes have managed to keep their cultures and languages alive and they still live in their ancestral homelands.

Yes, you being a native of Arizona truly is "rare" -- most people moved here from another state, especially California.

If you are ashamed to tell people where you are from, then I can only assume you haven't been here in awhile and you've been reading too much of the mainstream media.

We don't have a lot of racial tension here -- what, are people going to start hating the Mexican side of their family, or maybe their best friend and co-worker who has a Mexican last name? Just because somebody said "racist" and what, we all looked at each other and said "okay, I'll play the hate game if you really want to."

Most Mexican-Americans, Anglos, blacks, Indians, Asians or whatever mix of those each of us is -- we all know this is pure politics because Jan Brewer wanted to make a name for herself and mostly this is all bullsh*t.

It will blow over soon and we can get back to normal life. But some of us would STILL like to see the border secured and get the cartels out of Arizona! Part of that relates to the drug trade, but another part relates to the human smuggling trade. If illegals know they are not welcome here, maybe they will stop coming.

It is funny how during WWII People didn't think anything about the Country asking American Japanese and putting them in Camps... Sending the Jewish People back to the Camps to die... But to do it to the Illegals isn't right???

lmk:

No, it's not right to create laws like the one in AZ. It's a knee-jerk reaction to a problem we've been dealing with for decades. That reaction is endangering the lives of many Americans of all races.

To the other part of your comment. During WWII America was wrong to put Japanese in internment camps and to send Jews back to Germany to die in German concentration camps. We learned a lesson because of those actions. Perhaps THAT'S why we are so sensitive about a law that calls for Americans to carry proof of our citizenship everywhere we go. How many multi-generation American/Hispanic families will be disrupted because of this law? The odds are that I won't be stopped by authorities looking for illegal aliens, but my sister might. I took after the Irish side of our family, but my older sister looks very Mexican. Our first Irish ancestor in California married a Mexican woman living there in 1849. Now, 4 generations later, my sister looks Mexican and I look Irish. I'm lucky, I live in Kansas. The hysteria hasn't reached us, but it has reached California. I wonder how soon until my 60 yr old, native Californian, sister faces the hysteria that seems to have taken over the lives of some people. The funny thing is, she probably supports this law--she hasn't made the connection yet, I'm sure.

Oh, well. She'll have to get used to the new America--an America of all white folk. That should make those Nazis hanging out in Arizona tonite really happy.

Yea, I agree... Protecting our borders is very un-American! Our government has taught you well.

No Nazi can be an American.

Have you any idea what this man and his like promote, Patrick? Or, are you simply another one of those dumbed down by republican rhetoric that you have obviously become expert at repeating?

So why did we ever fight in any wars??? Isn't the result the same ending???

I notice that the liberal media and administration have convinced you to ignore the fact that mexican drug cartels have heavily armed paramilitary encampments on american soil. Namely the Buenos Aires Wildlife Refuge. The government response to this INVASION ,is to warn U.S, citizens to stay out of the park. Good job of protecting our borders , eh?

TAlk to the guy in the white house, if he wre doing his job, those people wouldn't be there.

Don't you know just like Germany... They believe the world should only be White Catholics!!!

Every, it is a shame that our federal government isn't stemming the flow of illegal aliens, who are unprepared to face the heat of a desert. To me those people are committing suicide while committing a crime, illegal invasion of this country.

I didn't say that they weren't possibly committing the crime of illegal entry. I said it was disgusting to celebrate their gruesome deaths, and disgusting to suggest other ways of killing them - as 99% of the Fox posters do. Last time I checked, illegal entry is not a crime that is punishable by any means of death.

Get it straight Dasvet--The government is spending more now than ever before on border control. The border is very long and not every inch of it can be covered. The number of crossings have gone down dramatically. You are contributing to misinformation by saying that nothing is being done.

sjgc, as in all so-called "news" there is propaganda. The number of crossings HAVE gone down dramatically for the U.S. as a whole, but in Arizona they have INCREASED. Some people argue that the Texas & California borders are more secure than ever, which means Arizona is now the preferred place to cross, and everyone in Mexico knows this.

Before you ask about New Mexico, I don't know. For some reason it seems to never become part of these discussions. Maybe because it has by far the smallest number of miles of border of the 4 state that border Mexico. It seems strange until you look at a map and realize that most of NM is north of Texas.

Right if you protect Yourself you are a Nazi!!! The only difference is the Nazi want to kill everyone they didn't like... Not stop them from getting into Their Country and stop E\Illegals like were are trying to do!!! We are not killing them like the Nazi did with the Gypsies and the Jews...

Jason JT Ready of Arizona is the NAZI.

He has a group of Nazis doing border patrol in Arizona with him.

It's making the law enforcement there NERVOUS as they should be!

Because NAZIS end up hating every and any thing that they don't agree with.

It's the NAZI way and it's DANGEROUS for America and her citizens.

Because NAZIS end up hating every and any thing that they don't agree with.

Yeah, like someone in post 13.4 who said:

......and I don't like dummies so let's throw them on the Bonfire too!

America will be much better off without stupid mindless people so let's just kill them all.

Wow. A black Nazi. Who'd have thought? Well, now that we know where you stand and what you are, thanks for the update.

Right and the Republicans are fighting for the American People right???

FYI there ARE plenty of Black extremists as well as Hispanic Bigots. No one disputes that anyone can and does hold some prejudices of a sort. While I understand Arizonan's concern about illegals (proxcimity breeds familiarity with a situation) the calls for lethal action are un-American on the whole and evil to the nth degree. If you are worried about criminality, What do you suppose is the response you'll warrant when your targets decide they need to "shoot their way in"? Will you guys kill them outright or call for the FEDS to do it for you. Murder blackens the soul. How are we any better than they if we use them same tactics (Murder and intimidation?) Yes, something must be done, but the Xenophobia running rampant down there does not bode well for any American as we can't tell (I don't care how good you think you are) who is a citizen simply by looking at them.

There is no xenophobia here. But this whole nonsense sure sells a lot of newspapers and web clicks, doesn't it?

Jan Brewer got a boost for her political career, the media makes more money sensationalizing everything, everyone gets their blood pressure up trying to whip up a hate frenzy where there never was one, and when it's all said and done, very little will change.

Either SB1070 will get struck down or it won't, but either way it isn't going to make any difference at all for legal residents and citizens, or for the cops or for anyone except maybe a few more illegal aliens will get caught compared to the number that get caught today. It's a major hassle for them, getting deported and all that, but most of them will be back in a few months anyway.

Wow, must be some good sh*t you're smoking.

Now that is funny thanks for a good laugh!!!

N.Y. - the state who is allowing a Mosque at ground zero.

Sorry, you don't have the standing to comment on Arizona.

That is such an ignorant comment. All I see on this page is you defending a man that would forcibly remove me and my entire family from MY/OUR country because I am not a white non-jewish heterosexual. That is un-American and you are a traitor to your country.

If you and your entire family are here illegally, perhaps you should go.

David,

You are no American. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. But probably too stupid to be.

That is why we have to vote the No Republicans out of office!!! To take our land back...

You mean the same Black Panthers that the bush/cheney administration refused to prosecute?

You mean wack jobs like Beckedrhead and alien hater O"rilley who admitt they are no more news reporters then TMZ stories?

No, the ones Bush and his DOJ presecuted for voter intimidation and the one's Obama and Hiolder dismissed charges against after the judge had already ruled against them!!! THAT New Black Panthers.

Tonne50, yea, the same group that the NAACP won't condemn, you got it.

This Nazi guy should be made a hero, or maybe a czar in the Obamination admin, oh wait, czars are unconstitutional and against the law... opps...

SPONGEBOB has higher rating than olbermann. and any other on msnbc

Serpcom

I watch MSNBC, CNN and FOX to get all sides. Do you? I doubt it, On Friday, Beck had Martin Luther Kings neice Dr. Alveda King on. You sould try and find the interview on the web. Maybe it would open your eyes. Or maybe not.

If you buy into all of this racial crap that Obama is pulling and the orginizations like MSNBC that are helping him with, then you don't really follow the news.

We can silence the black panthers, but then we must also silence ALL hate groups, of which I believe the KKK spews similar venom.

Sounds good to me and that was the whole point of Becks interview of Alveda King. No one should get a pass if they are racists - not whites, not blacks, not Asians - not anyone.

#24

You mean the 3 knuckleheads in Philadelphia? I don't think MSNBC should waste time on 3 ass's.

The NAZI issue is way more serious. The Nazis tried to exterminate an entire race of people and almost succeeded.

The 3 Black Panthers don't have that kind of following and never will and you know it

Actually Blacks have never tried to exterminate a whole race but the NAZI HAVE!

So this "neo-nazi" is a socialist right? NAZI means National Socialist Workers Party.

NAZI's in the 20's and 30's were very close politically to what today we call "Progressives". They hated capitalism and many western things. They viewed themselves are Far Left and their economic policies were far-left as well. They hated Jews and look what group really dislikes Jews nowadays-- politically left people in the US and Europe.

Actually Blacks have never tried to exterminate a whole race but the NAZI HAVE!

Hate to break it to you but the Black Panthers want to exterminate the White Race and Obama dropped the charges against them.

Wilberta Berry

%%^^&&**(*&^%$ Please one just has to look to AFRICA!!!!!!!!!!

your point? Blacks have had to put up with the HUNDREDS of neo-nazi groups across the nation that have ACTUALLY KILLED minorities for how many years? Blacks have had to put up with the threats (and numerous actions that have resulted in serious injury or death, which is more than you can say for the Black Panthers) from not just classified 'hate' groups, but the general white populace for a majority of nationhood.

And now white people have their panties in a bunch because a few crazy guys talk smack about killing their babies. I'm pretty sure that recently two young men were arrested for threatening to chop off black people's heads in a rampage. Why were they arrested? Because white hate groups have set a precedent of racial killings, so there is reason to be paranoid. With the way people are acting over the NBPP, I would like to see what happens if a black supremacist group actually goes around burning down white people's houses and stringing them up (or dragging them behind trucks). White people across the nation would probably spontaneously combust, they wouldn't be able to handle it.

We do not have our panties in a bunch over this guy spewing hate, we have our panties in a bunch because your beloved NAACP just condemned patriots with a racist label when your own party just praised a high member of the KKK, senator byrd who not only hated blacks, but wrote letters to several senators condemning blacks and 'would rather see old glory trampled than to serve with these mongrels".

Now you are on a rampage that this American, who has values you or I would not think of, is actually doing something that the federal government has chosen to ignore.

Americans are dying and being raped. Buildings are being shot up from drug cartels from Mexico and all I hear from our government is 'sue Arizona'.

We all have our flaws, but can we get our tax dollars to do something that is actually a benefit for our citizens? We have paid for it and we continue to pay for defense, but I guess Arizona doesn't need federal protection. Funny thing is, all states have a constitution and border security is a state right. Obama is on the wrong side of this, and Americans are tired of inaction on what matters and swift action on laws that do nothing more than distribute the wealth.

I know you will most likely disagree, but there is my take on it.

Patrick--name one instance where an American was raped. I don't recall any news about that. Perhaps I missed out on some news?

The Nazi Tea Party Americas version of the Taliban. You better not be Illegal, Jewish ,Asian

Gay. Black, or Catholic. If you are you are the source of their problems and it's only a matter of time before you will be put in their cross hairs.

Because that is how ALL extremest do it one group of people at a time.

I guess we should just toss the Constitution and start a Bonfire with it.

Actually fundamentalist Christians are the very closest thing we have to the Taliban. How did you come up w/Naziiis??? This guy JT is a former marine and has earned his right to his political viewpoint. How many of you can say that? And judging by how they have demonized Mel Gibson, my guess is ol JT is not much different than La Raza, the Black Panthers, or any number of jewish organizations- all of which espouse racial ideology...I think Americans are tired of confrontational immigrants, as opposed to the ones that come here out of love for the country. I still see those types in Chicago: Ukrainians, Poles, etc who love America and are fiercely proud of their citizenship, and out-american those of us born here.

sjgc

Google Woman raped by illegal immigrant, you'll get about 3000 hits, including a 99 year old woman and a 14 year old raped by 6 illegals. Then there is the Washington woman who was raped by an illegal deported 5 times, but kept coming back to commit more crimes. Guess you don't get your news from any place other than MSNBC.

The most recent (that has been in national news recently)...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/13/police-illegal-immigrants-rape-year-old-texas-girl-july-th-party/

@Rock

If the fundamental Christians are the closest thing to the Taliban, I would like to know when the Taliban starting using prayer as a form of terrorism? Or are you referring to the few nut jobs who kill abortion doctors? Obama signed into law partial birth abortions, meaning you can be giving birth and as long as the baby doesn't pass the birth canal, you can kill it. They do this by sucking the brains out while the baby is crowning. Nice huh.... and other get a murder charge for doing something stupid that results in an unborn child's death... nice policy Obama has... lmao

prayer? I am talking about ideas of state religeon, sexism, death seeking, confrontational/ dictatorial religeons that want to keep people in their place. I think abortion wrong, and have marched against it. You? (but mine came from basic moral grounds; it wasn't some crazy dead guy from 2000 years ago telling me to through a televangelist.) There are many commentators from either side of the spectrum who realize that the more militant christians are the equivalent of the more militant Islamic groups- for good reason: The Koran is largely taken from the "bible".

So Tea Partiers are actually patriots huh? I just thought they were classed-up rednecks who didn't like minorities and based their policies off of fear of the loss of "white power".

well Sean you are confusing "standing" (which means credibility) with "rights" (which are in statute or common law). the main example I could point to is if you apply for any government job, state or federal, you get extra points for being a veteran, and preference for hiring. woo-hoo!

Right everything that is good for the Country you say is bad for the People!!! Is that because Fox and the Republicans say it is so??? The Democrats is trying to make this a better Country!!!

Live a day as a black man in America... Live a day as a latino in America... i'm so tired of reading comments by people who GENUINELY believe that their opinion matters or somehow changes things. Every group (black, white, latino, asian, native american, etc) has faced some kind of racism from some other group.

I actually live in Arizona and see what this immigration issue is doing on a daily basis. Stop commenting on things you know nothing about. A group of ignorant black people saying ignorant things shouldn't be given any more face-time than a group of ignorant white people saying ignorant things. I'm black and I support this group of men who have decided to patrol the boarder. I will support any group that is trying to make this state a safer place to live; any group that is stepping up and trying to MAKE some changes.

AND I WILL SUPPORT THEM UNTIL THEY DO SOMETHING ILLEGAL.

And to comment on the attacks on Obama... This is a country in turmoil. There are parents killing children, husbands killing wives, strangers killing strangers and millions of jobless people who are struggling to find a way to feed themselves and their families. If you want change, make change yourselves. Stop waiting around for someone else to do it for you and stop laying the blame on people who are actually trying to make a difference.

Going out to vote is not enough anymore... going out and working in your community, donating time and money to a good cause, teaching tolerance rather than ignorance, and figuring out where you can make a difference is the way to make things change.

It's going to rain today somewhere in the U.S. You can blame Obama for that too.

Yeah, and bush/cheney did SOOOOOO much to stop illegal boarder crossings. ROTF

Wade when were the people of Arizona "robed".....? How credible are you when you don't know the difference between robed and robbed?

Don’t blame obama for the rain; it is Bush that controls the weather. Have forgotten Katrina so soon? Most assuredly you should place blame on Bush and Cheney they probably should have been impeached for failure to secure our borders; however congress is just as guilty. That said I hate to be the one to inform you of the bad new Tonne50, but Bush is no longer the president and has no power to do anything. Obama is now the president and the job belongs to him and him along. Unfortunately for all of us he is failing miserably.

I don't think he's failing miserably. I think he's doing a great job.

OBAMA 2012!!!!!

Jim Watkins-1324402

Your *&^%^$A$$ knows what he was trying to say!!!!

Lots of us (on the left and middle) don't like the fact that ANY persons are coming here illegally, but I would rather have that than persons, militia groups and state governments taking over that responsibility when immigration is still CLEARLY jurisdiction of the federal government.

That being said, OF COURSE there should be more done by the government about this problem. I just don't think it justifies what Arizona did. The problem is, when Arizona does this, then Virginia passes a law that they have the right to check all citizens I.D's (for immigration)at any time, then Montana says they can detain anyone without a Montana issued State I.D. and on..... and on....and on.......Imagine when 5 states say all air traffic flying over their land must land in their state to do an I.D. check

This scenario seems wayyyy out of hand, but it is literally possible and I, personally would not like it to go to that.

13 Trillion dollar national dept, unemployment 9.5 %, suing a state for assisting with existing federal law, no control over our borders, the U.S. the laughing stock of the world, a secretary of treasure that cannot even pay his own income tax, a racist department of justice, a massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico and all he can do is hinder cleanup efforts. I can see why you think he is doing a great job.

Mohamabama is on vacation again hiding from doing his job and the American People

Wade, I am sure that there were some thousands of Mexicans who died in the desert during the Bush years. Are you going to say that they could thank Bush for that too? Why is someone like you worried about dead Mexicans anyway?

OBAMA in 2012!!!!! right on every1has1 he gots my vote

Godhelpus1502198, your former President George W Bush was on vacation 2/3 of his two terms in office. While we were fighting 2 wars that he delcared were necessary that turned out to be unnecessary. Were was you voice then, when all the corporations profitted from the US being in wars...u people just don't get it. Companies made billions of dollars while we were at war in Iraq, from selling everything from shoes laces to batteries to picture frames to tanks to ammo, to computer chips, to food to water....billions! Then after the wars were recognized for what they were, you were laid off from your job...I got one question for you were is your share of the billions they racked in...I'll tell you in the big debt he left for the american tax payer to pay. Ever wonder where he was for the last few months he was in office while the country spiraled out of control....hiding that's where! Know you facts before you make stupid statement!

TeaxasBob: We have the Republicans and Bush to thank for that!!! All Obama is doing is to spend money so that things will get better...

right on imk02 and jeanette you are 100 percent correct. just to let you all know armour known as dragon skin bullet and flack proof light weight and manuverable was being tried bye the law enforcement over here.

The person who made it wanted the very best for our boys over seas fighting the war. The President Bush's administrative would not let the army have it. So the boys kept wearing flack jacketsa that dont stop any rounds just shrapenal. You are so right Jeanette check and see who owns stock in the flack jackets. Parent have been buying the dragon skin vests for their sons and sending them overseas to them. Just like the conservatives want, nothing but the cheapest equipment for our boys over seas. If you have children fighting over seas in the war maybe you chould think twice before wanting to be a conservative.

I will not bad mouth anyone for starting this war, were all Americans and we have to finish this out but what did Iraq blow up over here that we had to go over their and kick the dogsnot out of them and take out their leader. i thought we were supose to go after bin laden what did sadam huesein have to do with the twin towers?

I really don't know not being sarcastic this time.