What? Chicago has been bullying downstate IL for EVER

Kinda like the argument that citizens don't need guns because there's always the police.

Reminds me of the saying " When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

"I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy"

"An armed criminal will kill an unarmed citizen with monotonous regularity"

"A newspaper reporter was interviewing a Texas Ranger for a human interest story. The reporter noticed the Colt model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him,'Why do you carry a .45?' The Ranger answered 'Because they don't make a .46'

And finally,

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."--Thomas Jefferson

Amen

Where is the ACLU??? They should stand up for the second amendment.

Oh what a crock I think you got that backwards.Just ask the urban libtard Californians that took over Idaho,Oregon and Washington.

Daley is so intent on keeping law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves against criminals, makes one wonder what his stake is in having un-armed, defenseless constituents.

Oh what am I thinking. There's no corruption in Chicago...everyone knows that....

Why can't people accept the simple fact that only law-abiding people adhere to the laws!! Laws do not affect criminals (they are called "criminals" because they do not follow the laws)!!

Gun bans turn law-abiding citizens into victims and slaves to tyranny!!

The Second Ammendment was meant to keep the US population armed against all enemies, foreign and domestic (and yes, that has ALWAYS included the Federal government).

Really, I don't see the illegal guns in the rural areas, maybe you should take off your Obama X-ray glasses and take a look at reality for a change.

AKRandy, I agree the ACLU needs to step in just like they did for the Arizona 1070 laws.

The ACLU should not pick and choose what rights it wants to defend, if they pursue 1 right they should do them all.

Daily is the enemy.

Visit Arizona and boycott chicago! Put your tourism and purchasing dollars in a state that is willing to protect our borders (when the Federal government refuses to do it) and don't send a nickel to the nepotistic socialist city-state of chicago.

If you crave crime, miserable weather and losing sports teams, you can always visit Cleveland or Buffalo. You won't get all the crime of chicago, but you will get most of the lousy weather.

I thought the Supreme Court had the final say so. I guess if the liberal antigunners don't get their way they just make more Unconstitutional" BS laws.

Everyone boycott the People's Republic of Illinois. There can't be be a really valild reason fo going to rat infested, gang banger heaven anyway. Since every gang banger in Chicago is carrying a 9mm, going there is tantamont to going to Kandahar. You will probably be killed if you enter.

@Skiddy

The Supreme Court does have the final say so, and they said the 2nd Amendment applies to the States, but the States can set some limited restriction. Moral of the story is..... be careful what you ask for....lol

If Pope Daley's restrictions become to restrictive and limiting, to the point where his Socialistic Pomposity interferes with the rights of the citizens HE IS SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR, then the Supreme Court will be called upon again to hopefully set His Highness straight. The need to protect or defend someone's physical well being and their family's, certainly extends beyond their living room to their porch, garage or the 20 mile drive to work or jogging through their local park. Pope Daley is a LOON. He should apply to his Communist friends in China for permanent residence if he supports that type of governance. I am sure they can find a spot for the likes of him in their government.

As the most corrupt mayor of the most corrupt city government in the US, maybe Daley is worried that someone might be coming for him with a gun in their hand!! Maybe that worry is justified!! Maybe he's just paranoid!! Maybe he should be paranoid!!! Maybe paranoids have real enemes also!! Chicago, what a POS city!!

@Greg4422

I believe you are mistaken. As far as I am aware, states do not have the authority to place restrictions on consitutional rights, only on privelages. For instance, some Southern Democratic states tried to implement a poll tax on African Americans in order to restrict their right to vote. Those attempts to enact poll taxes were seen as an infringement on a constitutional right and were shot down.

Of course, the next argument is going to be over whether we may pcik and choose which rights are unalienable, and which are OK to ignor (answer, none).

Perhaps what needs to happen, I am sad to say, is registered gun owners in Chicago should file a multi-billion dollar law suit against the city and name the mayor and his cronies as co-defendants, for continued violations of their 2nd Amendment Rights. Then, as a result of the city being bankrupt, the dumbazzed mayor and his "gang of uneducated sheep" won't have money to pay the cops, who will then sit at home, since they aren't getting paid. When the criminals start breaking into Moron Daily and Crews' homes let's see how many of THEM have guns and use them to defend themselves...

And hey, if they get wasted because they don't have a gun, I guess well, they should have armed themselves and embraced that 2nd Amendment...

Problem solved.

Not a good idea, keep pushing the issue and the Supreme Court will define the "exact limits"of the 2nd Amendment. I don't think you really want that to happen, especially since you don't know the end result

you can bet that those making these rules are armed and prob even pack you know for their own safety

The ACLU is a joke.

Hey Chicago, how are those gun laws working for ya... yea, thought so.

One of my favorite stories was of a CNN reported who asked a Marine Sniper what he felt after shooting someone. He replied "recoil". Classic....

Gun laws don't work on unlawful citizens. I have never read a story where the bank robber said "I would have robbed the bank with a gun, but they are banned".

Can our country get any more stupid? Please dont' answer that, I will read the news on MSNBC tomorrow on what Obama did today and I will get my answer... sadly...

Why doesn't the federal government come in to protect peoples' second amendment rights???? Oh wait, I forgot, they are way too busy trying to sue Arizona for what they are doing!!!!

@what_the_81

Do you have "individual" 2nd Amendment rights? You sure?

for more than 200 years, the overwhelming view in the legal world had been that the Second Amendment only protected a state's right to maintain a "well-regulated militia."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2000454,00.html

Kind of funny. In Chicago they only want to allow you to have one working gun in the house but on the other hand you are allowed to have an unlimited number of illegal undocumented aliens. That's fair isn't it?

How much of the tax payers money will Chicago piss away trying to defend this law? Cuz we all know how financially secure the city of Chicago and the State if Ill. are.

More bums to vote out. The list is getting long.

Registering with a government entity notifying them that they own a gun? HA! If you have a FOID Card, that's a pretty good indication. You do not have to register with anyone and the Supremes will never, ever allow it to go any further than that.

Alot of the items listed are common sense that any gun owner should follow, but this will never pass muster.

Anyway, just barking upstate to let Chicago know that I have five firearms in the house. Come and get me!

Most if not all of the correctly connected pols and appointees in Chicago, are made "Special Deputies" of the Chicago PD. This allows them to protect themselves with conceal/carry permits while the citizens must use Popsicle sticks to defend themselves. How many heavily armed security personnel does the Mayor travel with ???

The same nimrods that strike down conceal carry laws every time in this State.

These anti gun laws are more than draconian, this King George type thinking and these tyrannts are so full of it they literally are nothing more that one step away dictators and the 2nd amendment is quite clear about gun ownership and it carries no restriction as this ignorant boob wants you to believe. Can you understand now why the flies land on their lips, it ain't just bad breath.

Read your own Constitution people it is a amazing document as are many other, many of these clowns refuse to teach to your children without putting their own slant on your right to factual history. These frigging petty tyrannts need good public flogging for insulting the nation as a whole.

Why is it that people seem to think that outlawing guns has an impact on violent crime? Do you think that criminals care about what laws get passed or not? I do believe that common sense dictates that a gun owner needs to know the proper use of the gun and they better know how to shoot the thing. If you can't put a bullet in the lid of a coffee cup, you better get a shotgun. I can get 6 in that lid. A good shooter can get'em in the size of a quarter or dime. This I will say---you break down my door---I'll let you get both feet in----then, it's over.

What hasn't been mentioned is...Chi-town is the origin of and headquarters for Obama Nation! I'll bet you can't see the similarities between the Apple Daly Gang and B. Hussein Obama's Boyz... But I digress... As I am a Constructionist, here are two items for your consideration:

1. Militia (United States) excerpt from thefreedictionary.com: "The early colonists of America considered the militia an important social structure, necessary to defend their colonies from Indian attacks. "They were a group of citizens who would be ready to fight in any emergency" All able-bodied males were expected to be members of the local militia..."

2. Take the following words from Mr. Alexander Hamilton in The Federalist, Number 25, and see if you can understand what he was arguing and how it can be applied to our society today. "[Based on the previous statements,] the presence of an enemy within our territories must be waited for, as the legal warrant to the government to begin its levies of men for the protection of the state. We must receive the blow, before we could even prepare to return it. ... We must expose our property and liberty to the mercy of foreign invaders, and invite them, by our weakness, to seize the naked and defenceless prey, because we are afraid that rulers, created by our choice, dependent on our will, might endanger that liberty, by an abuse of the means necessary to its preservation. ... All violent policy...defeats itself." {Read that last sentence in context and you will truly understand how bassackwards the current regime is.}

Everyone boycott the People's Republic of Illinois.

I already have I won't go there until they honor my concealed carry permit. If you want to lower the crime rate that is what they should do. Pass a concealed carry law that allows citizens, without any criminal history, to take and pass a concealed carry permit test. One that instructs them on all the best gun safety and how to hit their target. I retest every so often to make sure I haven't forgot anything.

think gun control works against crime then think Australia it has worked real well there, murder by hand guns up, assaults with hand guns up, assaults with hand guns on seniors up, robberies with hand guns up, ect ect ect and these are not small amounts in most cases it's more than double!!! easy crimes against unprotected and unarmed citizens

Obama dont' want us to have guns, but then again, he has a group of people protecting himself everwhere he goes. Kind of Ironic if you ask me. I don't get secret service protection for my family, that job falls to me.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT A FU**ING BUFFOON DALEY IS. I'M GOING TO BOYCOTT CHICAGO!!!!!

The new city ordinance bans gun shops in Chicago and prohibits gun owners from stepping outside their homes, even onto their porches or garages, with a handgun. It will take effect in 10 days.

Banning gunshops? Why isn't he banning the alleys, vacant buildings and crack houses where most of the illegal hand guns are dealt in Chicago? I'm sure the bangers don't go through the hassle of LEGALLY purchasing many handguns to rob, rape and murder people.

And I guess if someone is stealing your car out of your driveway or something from your garage you can always run out and tell them they better stop because you have a gun inside the house!

Good God!!!!!

What are we are allowing our nation to become.

progthinking...hahaha...no such thing

the communists in America used to call themselves "progressives"....this dough head Daley wants to make sure the only gun carriers in Sh!tcago are on his payroll...his corrupt ass thief father and his own criminal ass are exactly what a Sh!thole town deserve...hahaha...and your "rural" comment is the funniest shyte I have seen for awhile...laughable

Greg4422

Not a good idea, keep pushing the issue and the Supreme Court will define the "exact limits"of the 2nd Amendment. I don't think you really want that to happen, especially since you don't know the end result

Greg....You are right in your assumption. I think the people who would support the Second Amendment would agree with you and we all have that possibility in the back of our minds. With an issue felt this strongly by a wide majority of people in this country, I would truly believe that the Second Amendment, simply by the fact of its position of importance and the strength and fortitude of its supporters will win the final fight for our rights to keep and bear arms anywhere in this great country. People like the "Pope of Chicago" and his head-nodding, Socialist, City government YES men and women, will fall as all those who have tread heavily on our Constitution have fallen in the past. His finger pointing diatribes aimed directly at our fundamental rights, certainly shows the people of this country what is in store for us and our Constitutional Rights and Freedoms when self righteous politicians attack the most basic, fundamental rights of not only Chicagoans, but every American.

a firearm without loaded cartridges, is just a piece of iron.

Sorry Prog, I believe it's the people of Chicago who want their Rights restored. They don't like govt telling them they don't have a right to defend their Families. The Chicago murder rate increased when the Ban took effect. Banning guns was a desperate political decision to "Fake" action on the part of the authorities. How typical of the Left to Proclaim interference because in America we want the Individual to decide if he wants cise his Rights, not the State. You and Stalin would have been great friends.

Why does Joe citizen need an effing handgun?

I just don't get it.

Rifles on the farrn to shoot coyotes I get.

In town for one's protection ;to me this reeks of insecurity due to immaturity.

Chuck the supreme court. Maybe it's time for thomas/scalia/roberts to have a handgun shoved up their a**.

wabo...probably to protect themselves from most of your family....thanks for asking

ahhh...whitehead is back...with more anti-America, redneck trailer park mentality...sweet

Wabo40 said "

Why does Joe citizen need an effing handgun?

I just don't get it.

Rifles on the farrn to shoot coyotes I get.

In town for one's protection ;to me this reeks of insecurity due to immaturity"

What world do you live in? Cities are dangerous and innocent people are victims of violent crimes every day. I guess your solution is to appeal to criminal’s sense of compassion. Maybe ask him about his childhood and offer sympathy for his poor upbringing, right?

Tool!

You R A pomous moron

WilGlo

Speak-and-Spell on sale at Walmart...

Greg4422, the average citizen IS the militia. (reply to your #1.24)

Greg4422 - Not so sure about your timeframe here. The US Constition which created the Supreme Court was not ratified until 1789 (by all 13 original colonies). So are you suggesting that the 2nd Ammendment was challenged in 1810 (200 years ago) in the Supreme Court.

You need to read The Federalist, it was written over 200 years ago by those who wrote the Constitution. There was no standing Federal army then, the states sent militias to serve in under Federal command. The militias were common able-bodied men, not the National Guard, who were obligated to serve in defense of their country. Repeat, the militia is ordinary citizens most often using their own weapons.

Your premise is incorrect. Urbanites have controlled politics in America for decades, simply by reason of their voting superiority.

What do you expect from a man that grew up in a mafia household? Daley's dad was the most corrupt in Chicago history and his kid is protecting his mob friends. the high crime rate in Chicago, New York and Washington DC is a testament to the value of the "gun bans". Cities that donot restrict the cieizen's right to protection have low crime and the mafia leaning have the higher. I think Daley and others of this criminal's bent use Obama math, no protection for the citizen and the criminals will leave them alone. WRONG! Every aspect this idiot has gotten the other criminals to enact are UNCONSTITUTIONAL.. Why anyone would live in an area that doesn't care for the Consitution or the safety of the residents is beyond me. Register your firearms, NOOOOOOOOO I can see the day Daley says to the corupt cops "go and get all the guns, NOW! If registered, he can find them - not registered good luck idiot!!!!!!

Of course the ACLU is NOT going to step up to the plate on this issue. They are more interested in fighting against Christian morals and beliefs.

For Liberty ,Preach it!!!!!!

For Liberty

Of course the ACLU is NOT going to step up to the plate on this issue. They are more interested in fighting against Christian morals and beliefs.

==================

and you are a forking moron.

whitehead appears to be a f'n moron...any more questions?...crazy isn't it?!......I know!

Please stay in one of the countries whose citizens are so much better than the US citizens.

There are some South Korean people that have guns. South Korea is no where closed to being like the United States, a lot of crimes are not reported in South Korea. There has been Americans killed in South Korea by knives and steel pipes. I think I'd rather be shot then beaten or stabbed to death. Why don't you just give up your citizenship and stay in South Korea.

Marc....Its your wimp attitude that gives people power over you, not guns.

I think you'd feel threatened in a room full of old ladies at a quilting bee.

Marc,

I am sure that North Korea has even more strict gun laws. Would you feel safer in North Korea? A simple yes, or no, would suffice.

That's why we have a Constitution and a Supreme Court that upholds it. It was America that came to the aid of Korea, not the other way around. That tells me one thing...... our country and it's Constitution is a damn site better than Korea's.

And, our laws are a damn site better too, except in Chicago which thinks just like a Korean.

Marc: I feel safe and secure right here in America. I am a gun owner, however I am not a criminal.

Also, S. Korea does not have near the freedoms as America has. So bite your tongue and look forward to what it will be like to live in America, after 2012.

I am so glad you are happy there!! We don't need and more commies here!

I will stay in another part of the world until America is a safe place to live in again. If you call me scared because I refuse to carry a gun or have a gun in the house, then I am scared. Scared for where American society is heading. You pay taxes to fund the worlds strongest military and the worlds best police force, but you dont trust them to protect you. Instead, you demand that you have the right to your own private weapons depot. You should demand from your government the protection guaranteed in the constitution and you should demand that you are afforded a safe environment in which to live. Most people around the world are not scared to live where they live, if you need a gun to feel safe where you live then you are the scared citizen.

Marc, Have you ever read our constitution? I don't think you have because if you did you would see that "we the people" are the government and as such must protect ourselves.

Marc: This country was founded on the elegant concept of personal liberty. Liberty is not granted by government. Remember, a government capable of doing everything for you is also one capable of taking everything away from you. And Marc, Rob is right. We the people are the government.

Well I dont see any one of you as individuals or as groups "Insuring Domestic Tranquility" or "Promoting the General Welfare". Seems like everyone is looking out for their own ass. Triple locking your doors at night and keeping a .357 next to your bed doesnt seem tranquil to me. I live overseas and have no need for a gun in my house. Guns are allowed here but few have them since there is no need. Citizens do not live in fear here. American society is in need of change, but insecure people like you will not allow it.

Marc, Why would you wish the Mayor good luck on trying to follow the same Ideals on his new laws that have been failing his city, D.C., and every other city in the country that attempts these Ideals for years and years.

It's time for him to give up and let the law abiding citizens have their Rights back. When will he realise that he is hurting his citizens. Or maybe he already knows that.

By law abiding citizens you mean those that choose to have guns to protect themselves. And the citizens who choose not to have a gun and are also guaranteed a tranquil life and to have their general welfare looked out for are basically screwed. Are you and the other law abiding citizens going to help them? Or are you just looking out for number one? you live in a society do you not? unless you are in a cabin in the rockies I think you reap many benifits from being part of an organized society. The "We" everyone keeps talking about. And to say that only the criminals are the dangerous ones. There is a very thin line between responsible gun owner and criminal. one to many beers, fit of rage, out of control altercation. Not only "hardened criminals" are responsible for shootings in the US. I am not saying the all guns are bad. but I am sure there are many citizens of the United States that wished they lived in a safer place. Where they didnt live in fear of a criminal, or thier neighbor, using a gun on them to take what they have or to simply have power over them. I am just saying that there are many countries in the world where citizens live safely with no fear of being shot by criminals or by thier neighbor or family member. I am sure Mayor Daly has been to places like this and wishes he could help the citizens of his city and even of United States to live in such a peaceful setting. Many dreamof this I am sure. But many dream of a weaponized society where the ones without guns have no freedoms.

Are you and the other law abiding citizens going to help them? Or are you just looking out for number one?

Yes, Marc. Actually I would help others. My states' gun laws allow that I may protect myself, my family, and the lives of anyone around me that I see is in imminent danger of a criminal taking such life. My state also allows me to carry a weapon in my vehicle for protection with certain minor restrictions which I have no problems with, I might add, to aid in the protection of myself and those around me. I, and those like me consider it a responsibility as a citizen to help my fellow citizens with protection in my state. My state agrees with my Ideals.

In answer to your other question of "that fine line" I am 51 years old, and have proudly never crossed it and never will. You have no reason or statistics to assume otherwise that could not be considered prejudice against me. Are you a prejudiced individual? I hope not.

List of countries by gun ownership
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

NigeriaGuns per 100 residen only one gun

Nigerian Crime

Further information: Nigerian organized crime, Confraternities in Nigeria, Piracy in Nigeria, and Advance fee fraud
Nigeria is home to a substantial network of organized crime, active especially in drug trafficking. Nigerian criminal groups are heavily involved in drug trafficking, shipping heroin from Asian countries to Europe and America; and cocaine from South America to Europe and South Africa. .^[96] The various Nigerian Confraternities or "campus cults" are active in both organized crime and in political violence as well as providing a network of corruption within Nigeria. As confraternities have extensive connections with political and military figures, they offer excellent alumni networking opportunities. The Supreme Vikings Confraternity, for example, boasts that twelve members of the Rivers State House of Assembly are cult members.^[97] On lower levels of society, there are the "area boys", organized gangs mostly active in Lagos who specialize in mugging and small-scale drug dealing. According to official statistics, gang violence in Lagos resulted in 273 civilians and 84 policemen killed in the period of August 2000 to May 2001.^[98]

Internationally, Nigeria is infamous for a crime dubbed 419, a type of advance fee fraud (named after Section 419 of the Nigerian Penal Code) along with the "Nigerian scam", a form of confidence trick practiced by individuals and criminal syndicates.^[99] In 2003, the Nigerian Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (or EFCC) was created to combat this and other forms of organized financial crime.^[100]

There is also some Piracy in Nigeria, with attacks mainly directed at smaller ships shuttling employees and materials belonging to the oil companies with any involvement in oil exploration in the Niger Delta. From January 1, 2007 to October 15, 2007, twenty-six pirate attacks were recorded.^[101]

Sounds like your state has it all covered. Must be the first crime free state. The citizens are gunning down the criminals, or vice versa, who really knows who is who. I guess thats one way to run a society. But seriously, dont you have any faith in your elected officials (who YOU elected)(thats another one of your rights) and the trained police force to protect you? The same police force your tax dollars pay for. Why do you feel the need to protect yourself with an arsenal of guns (coz one wont kill enough) when you have already elected people to look out for your safety and wellfare. Did YOU elect the wrong people. Are the police force ill trained and ill equipped? America has the best police force in the world. I am sure you are aware of that. And how did all of these criminals get the guns. Maybe they were law abiding citizens at one time in thier lives. And they had the right to buy that gun(s). But later decided that they didnt want to be so law abiding. Criminals werent always criminals. But really, Everyone should vote for a peaceful and free society because being armed does no good. It only encourages fear . Peace to all

American man: You feel safe because you have guns in the house. Grandma down the street has no gun, but goes on with life and feels safe. what does that make you look like? Scared

And Korea is a fine example of Democracy at its finest. No one lives in fear. And children can even walk to school by themselves without fear of being abducted, raped and killed. You should really travel and see some of these fine places. There are many things America has to relearn so it can get back to the way things were before. Safety and tranquility for all.

Marc, I'd bet the people of North Korea would appreciate the right to bear arms.

Marc, It has already been decided by the Supreme Court that the police are not responsible for us as individuals, but as a society in general, and that we are responsible for ourselves individually. So, NO, I cannot expect to vote someone into office that can protect me better than myself and I have no problem with my state's laws.

Marc- The police ARE NOT "trained to protect you". SCOTUS has repeatedly ruled that it IS NOT THE POLICE's JOB TO PROTECT YOU. It is YOUR job.

Castle Rock v. Gonzales
Warren v. District of Columbia
Riss v. City of New York
Bowers v. DeVito
Calogrides v. City of Mobile
Chapman v. City of Philadelphia
Davidson v. City of Westminster
Hartzler v. City of San Jose
Keane v. City of Chicago
Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice
Marshall v. Winston
Morgan v. District of Columbia
Morris v. Musser
Reiff v. City of Philadelphia
Sapp v. Tallahassee
Silver v. Minneapolis
Simpson’s Food Fair v. Evansville
Stone v. State
Weutrich v. Delia

Apparently the right to keep and bear arms isn't the only thing you don't understand about the law in the United States.

Ginny , I have no idea about North Korea since I have never been there and frankly no one really knows anything about it other than what we are told by our govt. but I know the people of South Korea feel no need to bear arms. They live in peace with no fear of who will gain power over them with a fire arm. Yes, there are some altercations there with other weapons such as knives or clubs, on occasion. But I tell you what, at least you have a fighting chance if they dont have a gun. A gun just gives you so much POWER doesnt it.

Jcj: So why not elect an official that will abolish the police force, and the National guard and allow citizens to form their own militias. Or every man for himself. Why waste your tax dollars on ineffectiveness. The people have the power to elect who is in thier best interest. And I know people dont want to waste their tax dollars on ineffectiveness. The police force and probably the US military are probably already outgunned by the average citizen. I think we have found a solution.

AkRandy: I am not a communist. I believe the greed and envy encouraged by Democracy and Capitalism are the best the human race has come up with so far. Communism might be a good theory but there is no envy or greed to encourage diligence in work. And thank you, I do feel extremely safe where I am at. Believe it or not I felt safe shopping on chicken street in downtown Kabul Afghanistan a few years ago. Great people. Too bad the Taliban wont let the people live a peaceful Democratic life.

EZ Hunter: so no answer when calling 911 anymore? Have to set up a new number to the local militia. Or signs on your street "We the citizens are the law, Enter at your own risk".

Wow Marc. You must think everyone lives next to the police station. The last time I had to call the police there was a car accident in front of my house. After calling 911 and requesting police and an ambulance a single state trooper showed up an hour later. The ambulance never came at all. While I appreciate my police force I am not going to be dependent on them during the seconds that my life is at stake when they are an hour away. If you ask the police in my area they will tell that anyone responsible enough to own a gun for self defense should own one.

Art: I will not give up my citizenship. I have served my country and its interests. What have you done for your country besides protect your own ass? And I do not live in South Korea (which has one of the lowest murder rates in the world). I live in many places. And I have experienced many wonderful societies. But I will always remain American. And I have hope that America will be a safe place to live again some day. But If you and people like you have your way there will never be peace, only increasing violence.

Taltoz: And since the Ambulance took so long, all citizens should all be trained as EMTs as well. Sounds like the police have given up on serving their communities. Telling you to protect yourselves, thats a damn shame. Used to be a proud profession (back before they were outgunned). seems like they are unnecessary. You wouldnt mind issuing a few speeding tickets would you? Next thing you know the military will tell the citizens that they cant be everywhere at once and you have to stop a full scale attack from China. No doubt there are enough guns in America, but with the "cover your own ass" attitude I doubt any sort of viable defense could be organized.

Marc, While 911 is a large help to society, It does not and cannot protect me in all instances. As you have heard before, "When seconds count, The Police are only minutes away" shows that I must be able to protect myself and those close to me.

It's been nice trying to discuss this with with you but we apparently will not change each others opinions and we would only go to bashing tactics from here which I refuse to do. Your last statement to me proves this and I have a Dr.s appointment to get to. Peace and Stay Safe.

Marc - you sir, are an idiot. I've lived my entire life without witnessing a violent crime, but I'm still a proud gun owner because that is my right. I enjoy going to the rifle range and shooting my old Swedish Mauser. It's fun. I also served in the Marines for 4 years, play lots of violent video games, and am part of a military simulation paintball team.

However, I fully respect my rifle whenever I handle it and have never even had an itch to haul of and use it to cause harm.

Guns do not make you shoot people, people make that decision on their own. Banning guns will not solve the problem.

Broken Arrow: I too have served. And I have used many weapons. But I have never felt the need to have one in my house for protection. If you need a weapon in your home to feel safe then society is flawed. If you enjoy a weapon for recreation then an option is to keep your weapon at a gun club where you can check it out for practice, then check it back in after your done. England does that and it is extremely safe there for the average citizen. I have been there.

All: get this. Reggie 7777 says that banning guns will create a more dangerous society. He based this on Australia. He says that the crime rate went up 30% since they banned gun ownership! Guess how many murders by firearm for the whole year in Australia? 59!! I know there population is much smaller than the US. But can you guess how many murders by firearms in the US for the same year. A mere 9,369!! Things are out of control in Australia!

EZHunter: It has been nice debating this issue with you. I am not trying to offend. I am just trying to debate my side and have a little fun at the same time. Seems like all the "No" voters are too serious and are not very open to any other options or ideas. Almost seems like they are reading off the same script. And as you can see there arent too many willing to comment on the "yes" side. So I feel I have to make the few that dream of a peaceful society know that they are not alone in their dream. I am sure there are many more that have the dream of living in a tranquil society without fear. Maybe they are in fear of expressing thier views in such a violent society. I am pretty sure I am far enough off the radar to be able to express my opinion safely. And thank you, I will be perfectly safe. You be safe too. triple locks and loaded handgun next to the bed is the only way to feel secure. peace.

Marc- you are absolutely, completely, and totally 100% delusional if you feel that there is no "safe" place in the US to live. You are putting up a straw man to "prove" your fallacy that without the removal of a Constitutionally guaranteed freedom that somehow this country is a "terrible" place to live.

I, too, have visited other countries. I did not feel that much safer there than I do here. No better, no worse; maybe just a little bit more nervous since one of my visits was with a leadership group to the USSR in 1990.

What a sad, frightened, and ill-informed outlook you have....but please, feel free to live anywhere else than the US, as long as you don't force your views on society on us who aren't interested in your way of life!!

Marc-1946992

Pure Capitalism: You are the one cowering in your bedroom at night massaging your hand gun so you can feel enough peace to get some sleep. Be a man and stand up for whats right, dont cower in your home.

You dont know me, how dare you speak of things which you know nothing about. Before you open your yap again, you should check my profile. I walk openly in the light of freedom. You are living in another country half-way around the world commenting on something which you know nothing about. I dont feel fear in my home or on the streets of Chicago. If however, a crackhead breaks into my place to steal from me to fed his habit and he has a weapon, my military training and a .45 auto will lay out this guy when the cops are still on their way. Better yet, just to show that I am not some kind murderous gun owner, I would probably just wing him, clip him in the leg and then make him call 911 on himself on his own cell phone whilst holding the gun at his head.

Shut your @!$%#ing yap. Stop commenting on a subject that is halfway around the world and does not affect you.

It seems that you are trolling and the majority of the comments are not in your favor. You should just give it up before you are reported and suspended.

You ARE frightened, you even stated that you wouldnt come back to America until it was safe! You are making assumptions about how people feel about their guns and their homes. Tell ya what smart guy, why dont you come here to Chicago and walk past Cabrini Green and tell me how safe you feel then? I am now reporting you for excessive trolling.

Thats the problem, Gun owners want the average citizen to just accept that society is beyond saving and to just give in to complete gun ownership. That is a FAILURE OF A SOCIETY. Voting in any way to reduce the amount of guns in Chicago and in America is the only way to reestablish a safe America. Increasing the amount of killing implements will not work. Power to the average Joe citizen. Dont give up.

Why dont you come and save our streets here in Chicago then? Too scared?? THE AVERAGE CITIZEN IN AMERICA OWNS A FRIKKEN GUN DUMMY! I have filed my complaint with you on Newsvine for trolling. Be prepared. The average Joe Citizen WANTS guns. You dont, why cant YOU just accept THAT fact and be done with it? Guns dont kill people, people kill people. Whats next outlaw knives and scissors and broken bottles and liquor? You're an idiot. Shut your yap already. Thank you.

Voting in any way to reduce the amount of guns in Chicago and in America is the only way to reestablish a safe America.

I think you are confused as to the history of gun ownership in the US. In our countries past practically every household owned a gun which was used for both hunting for food and for protection. This was true in the days of the founding fathers. It was only with the growth of major cities that the government decided to restrict guns and look how well that has worked out. The large cities with the strict gun laws are where the majority of voilent crimes occur. The rural areas "far from the interstate" that you mention are safer usually are the areas where the majority of the population still hunt and own guns.

Yes, guns were a way of providing for your family back in the pioneer days and before industrialization occured (And to practically exterminate the Native American). But we have grocery stores now. And whats wrong with a policy of sport hunters keeping thier guns in a gun club and checking it out for the days hunt and turning it in when finished(UK- only 14 murders by firearm in a year). And London is a very big city(but how do they keep it so safe?). I know, what about the guns possessed by the criminal element? Since criminals are the "only" ones using guns on other humans (far from true). That will be a hell of a task to accomplish but it can be done with the right support and the will power of the average citizen. Adding more guns to the circulation surely will only put more guns in the hands of those wishing to exert power over others.

Marc-1946992

I'm so glad you choose to criticize America from afar. Please stay wherever you are! We are doing all right without you.

As far as the safe atmosphere you have enjoyed in S. Korea, please do not forget that it is because of American guns and the American Military which is still there 50 years after hostilities started. Be thankful for those who died so you can feel safe overseas. Feel safe in Europe? It is because of America. Feel safe in Asia? Ditto's. Do you get it? I guess not.

As far as England goes, crimes with guns went up 80% AFTER they took the guns from their law abiding citizens....smoke some more of that stuff and drink your kool-ade, you will continue to feel all warm and fuzzy!

If you have an overwhelming majority refuting your comments, wouldnt that make you think that maybe YOU'RE not armed with all the details, facts, information that you need to refute such claims? I would re-read those posts and try and figure out whats being said by the majority. If its weighted against you, there must be a reason. and the reason is that you are wrong. You can cry for a utopian society all you want but Dishon the gangbanger wont sit down and talk with you about resolving the issue, he'll just @!$%#ing shoot ya. Hey, you're welcome to try, go ahead, I'll wait. Meanwhile, I'll be cleaning my .45.

Its all pretty to talk with big words and ideals but thats not gonna happen. Live with it.

But we have grocery stores now.

Fine if you want to be dependent on society. There are still a lot of us who prefer to provide for ourselves, not to mention enjoy the health benefits of wild game to feedlot animals. For the record I also raise my own livestock, have a garden to provide my vegetables, etc.

And whats wrong with a policy of sport hunters keeping thier guns in a gun club and checking it out for the days hunt and turning it in when finished

So to make you feel better I should have to drive however many miles to this club, checkout my own gun, drive back to my house and hunt in the woods I own on my property, and when finished drive back to the club to lock my gun back up? I am a responsible adult who is capable of securing my own guns at my house and save the time and gas that would be required just to make you feel safe.

Marc, you are an idiot. The only reason those citizens in So Korea are free at all is because of guns. We are America because of guns. It is our RIGHT to bear arms. Without them, we could easily be invaded by any enemy foreign or domestic. You can not tell me for a fact that not many people own guns in Korea. Are you listening to the government propaganda? I bet I could sell you the Brooklyn Bridge too! There is a city in Either Indiana or Illinois that required its residents to own a gun. Guess what, no crime there. Sorry, the criminals don't give a crap about what you think or what another country does and we do need to be able to protect ourselves. Tough if you don't like it, you are a liberal looser, glad you aren't here, you would not be a good asset to our country. Hope you get shot cause you cant protect yourself.

My God, Here is a person, whom I dare not call a man, criticizing the way some people choose to live. "CHOOSE" being the key word. I am a firearm owner and instructor. I choose to have firearms in my home. I choose to go to the range and use my firearms in a responsible manner, or go hunting on my property or someone else property with their permission in a responsible manner. If someone CHOOSES to enter my home without my permission to cause me or my family physical harm, or to deprive me of my personal property, then I will have no other choice then to defend my home to the best of my ability. I do this because I cannot depend on police protection for the simple fact that there are few police officers in my area and that I live well outside the rural limits of what some would call adequate response time limit. I live in the country and others live in a metropolis of a city and think that their officers can respond in a respectable time frame. Time to wake up. To quote a common phrase " If firearm ownership becomes a crime, then only the criminals will own firearms" I am not saying that everyone will become criminals, but myself and my family who relish the freedoms guaranteed to us by the Constitution, will become criminals, because I will not give up my right to KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.

Marc - You obviously didn't read my post. I do not NEED a gun in my home, I would feel safe without one, and have felt safe without one prior to last year (when I bought my first rifle). The reason I own a gun is so that I can take it to the range and shoot every now and then, because that is something that I enjoy. I am an American, and us Americans have a very fierce pride in ownership. Having to keep something that we own at a place other than our home, to me, diminishes the value and enjoyment of it. Also, one day I plan on having a place out in the country, and I plan on setting up targets on that land for me to shoot whenever I damn-well please.

It's also a collector thing, one of my rifle's is a Swedish Mauser built in 1894. That's a bit of history that i can hang up on my wall and be proud to own. Why would you want to take that away from me?

If you are that out of touch with American values, then you really aren't American anymore, regardless of prior service.

If you don't care for the second amendment, I think you might find going to another country might suit you. If you knew everyone had a gun in their homes, you would go elsewhere to commit your crimes.

Marc, I don't have a gun ANYWHERE but in a safe with a trigger lock on it. I haven't shot one in nearly 15 years! I have NEVER slept with one anywhere near me, except for one time before I had children when someone was trying to break into my house in the country when no one else was present. The police came, and then went. I had imminent danger (former home owner was drunk and trying to break in, as had been done before we bought the house, but left before the police arrived- what would you do?)

What evidence do you have in my post that says anything different?? I enjoy the sport of target shooting. Period. You are so continuously shrill and fanatacist in your posts that it goes well beyond any reason; you appear to need some serious psychological help! Please get that counseling and then re-join the continuing conversation...

"Complete weaponization of America"? This is just one example of your extreme over-reaction to anyone who enjoys a hobby of target shooting/owns a firearm for self-defense. I hardly want the "complete weaponization of America"; allowing lawmakers to FOCUS on the gun laws that EXIST is fine with me!!! Keeping the lawmakers in balance with the freedom of the Second Amendment, that is important.

Marc,

This is the ammendment that allows you to be able to write what you are writing here:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.^[1]

^{This is the ammendment that allows us the FREEDOM to bear arms, not just for defense, but also for hunting and personal enjoyment-target shooting}

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

^{If you do not like the second one, stop using the first one!}

Marc: you can argue all you want about ideals, the perfect society and how things should be. Life and "civilized" communities are not, and never will be totally secure. Not until there are no more drug addicts, greedy criminals, and or mentally disturbed people loose in our society, will firearms not be needed.

Would you rather have a firearm if someone ever entered your house and attempted to harm you or your family? or would you rather try to hold off armed intruders with your bare hands, knife or bat?

Do you live in an apartment on top of your local police station, or in a guarded enclosed community? Most Americans don't have that luxury.

I live most of the year in another country with my wife and son. I'd rather be armed(responsibly), no matter what country I'm in. I'd rather have a firearm and never need to use it, than need one and not have it.

When society can guarantee that criminals won't have access to guns, then maybe more citizens will feel safer. Firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens also makes criminals unsure about who might be more able to defend themselves more efficiently, making them think before they randomly try to harm someone.

Maybe we'll switch to long range tazers for self defense when that happens.

Marc-1946992: Well I hate to see the day when North Korea comes marching through the DMZ and attacks your country. You and Your fellow Citizens will not have any way to protect yourselves or your families. So when the North Korean Soldiers start killing your fellow family members, friends, and fellow Country men. Know full well that your Out look on owning a gun helped kill not only you, but everyone you know. I hope that day does not come to pass, but if it does you will wish you had a gun...Only a fool will believe that there government can do the job. Your country failed once all ready and it could happen again. Sorry not in the USA.

Give you a little History Lession about Guns: Back durring WW2 what Country was never attacked in Europe by Hitler.... Answer: Switzerland

You want to know why such a small little Country was never attacked by the Nazi Germany at all?

Answer: Switzerland hand no real Army, but a Citizen Army. Every Citizen had to have guns and Ammo and would be called out at any alarm to come to fight. Hitler went to Switzerland for a demonstration of Switzerland's marksmanship. Hitler watched Kids as old as 10 Male and Female to adults firing at targets at 1000 meters. ALL were hitting dead center shots, every citizen of Switzerland were trained in marksmanship and all so how to be a sniper. Ever-last one of them. Switzerland was sending Hitler a Message. You can come, but don't be suppriesed when you lose thousands of troops. Hitler never had the troops or the will to take a chance with Switzerland. Now if history went differently and Hitler took over the British Island, may be he would have then attacked Switzerland. But no one knows for sure... A well armed Populace has two positives, one it keeps Criminals in Check and two it keeps foreign army's from trying to invaded you. Like I stated above, good luck to you if The North decides to pay you a visit again..

he y Marc, I'm not scared, I have a gun. Besides, you are trained to injure someone with your hands, legs and body, therefore you are a dangerous weapon and you don't need a gun. I'm sure you wouldn't just walk by someone that was being beat, just like most people here on this thread wouldn't either. Owning a gun has nothing to do with being scared. It is a right, you don't have to own a gun, but don't tell me I can't because you don't like them. That is your right, but when someone breaks into your house and shoots you because they know you don't have a gun in the house, you are an easy target and I bet you would wish you had one when the police don't show up until it is too late.

The Chicago ban goes to far that they can't even leave their homes with a gun, go to their garage or on their porch. I pay my taxes I should be able to go wherever I want with a gun that I paid for and use legally. Why doesn't the mayor put more police on the force to cut illegal gun use by gangbangers and not tie the hands of the citizens?

Marc - Read this.....

http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=205334

This is what happens when you allow citizens to legally carry firearms to protect themselves from criminals. Too bad for the criminals in this story.

Where hasn't Marc been? It South Korea and these other countries so damn good why the hell don't you go live there and worry about their country. Why come on here state I've been here and I've been there and they have better laws and feel safer, go live there leave the US and go live there. You don't seem much like a real American citizen otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about guns and wanting there to be no guns even though it is in the Constitution. Are you saying then since that people who were killed in the early days of the US and in the old west that they were wrong? Are you saying that our founding father's were wrong for putting in the Constitution the right to bear arms?

South Korea? Oh ya, my father and countless other AMERICANS died there because the South Koreans were attacked by their neighbors who HAD guns! Let me say this, in my professional legal opinon, Mayor Daley is a tool.

Marc: I know how much you seem to think people should only rely on the police to protect them, least that's how it seems to me, but you might want to rethink that. When some warehouses near where I work was broken into and robbed, the owner of the property was there 5 minutes later while the police took 1 hour to get there. When asked why it took them so long, the police said the way things operate is to make sure the robbers have left first before they arrive, that way if they have guns then the police won't be put in a situation where a gun battle may insue. Is this really the police force you want to protect you and your family from robbers? The owner who got robbed told the police the next time his property was broken into he wouldn't call them, he'd just get a gun, kill any robbers he found, then call the morgue to pick up the bodies.

On a lighter note, we have recently had a 15 year old boy shoot 1 of 2 robbers who broke into his home during daylight hours. He did so to protect his 12 year old sister. The 2 robbers had also broken into and robbed at least 2-3 other homes in the area within a week. God bless Texas and it's gun laws which say if you break into my home, I can fill you full of lead.

What will they do in South Korea if North Korea decides to invade. Tell them guns aren't allowed in their country. Wonder how that will work out.

Marc, just because I carry a firearm regularly does not mean that I am scared. It means that I am prepared. Thats like saying people with health insurance or car insurance are just scared. Also, I own guns for more than just personal protection. I use a gun for hunting, and depending on the type of animal and whichever state I am in, the type of gun I use is different. Going so far as to ban handguns because they are used in crimes is ridiculous. The U.S. had between 9,300 and 9,400 deaths by firearms in 2009. There was also approximately 14,000 deaths in alcohol-related car accidents. Drinking and driving is illegal, but people still do it anyway, does that mean we should ban alcohol? Maybe we should just ban driving, because the U.S. averages 37,000 deaths in vehicular accidents each year.

Don't write on here about being safe in S. Korea. There is a different state of mind there. The country is more concerned about N. Korea and the entire mentality is incompable to the U.S. Not to mention, if it wasn't for the U.S., you would just be Korea, not two separate countries, and then we wouldn't know a thing about you because it would be kept secret.

Look at Switzerland, they don't have the lowest gun crimes in the world, but per capita it is six times lower than the U.S. They also have a requirement on citizens to own and maintain guns, they actually give them a gun and make them qualify with it. In the two years after England banned guns, gun crime rose 40%. Armed robberies in Australia rose 51% after they banned guns, and kidnappings went up 43%. There are many more facts showing that criminals are going to get guns regardless of the current law. I'm not even going to go into details on the Mexican gun laws, and look at the crime rates there. If I was a criminal, and I wanted an easy target, I would go to an area where I didn't expect someone to be a gun owner.

Marc hasn't been anywhere. Marc is just a teenage kid sitting in his bedroom having fun making inflammatory remarks on a subject that he has repeatedly proved he doesn't know about. Just the comment on how "scared" he is proves this. It's ridiculous. Anyone that has done any traveling abroad can see it immediately, there are far more places to be scared in than anywhere in America. I'm sure he's having big laughs right now on getting these reactions, and he should be banned from the board for inciting people with nonsense.

No Marc:

I'm not just looking out for myself. If gramma down the street get attacked, I'll grab my gun and run to help.

If you need protection, I'll be there.

That's the gun toting American way. We go to the defence of people, and nations.

"safe England" where no one has access to weapons, even the shotguns have to be stored at the police station, now have ARMED police. The citizens don't have any weapons, but the criminals do. The English police never carried a weapon before all guns were declared illegal to have in houses. Hitler gave the citizens a "secure and safe" state when he banned all firearms in the hands of the citizens. Every German was safe, unless you were Jewish, Catholic, Black, or . I don't and won't accept that "safety" and if you like that Marc, please stay out of my country and my freedoms. America is free because of the weapons in the hands of the Americans that believe in personal responsibility. Don't need the Gov to give me safety.

So move to one of those so safe countries, if it wasn't for America and its gun toting people south Korea would be NORTH KOREA and then how would you feel in that country with all your communist side kicks? They do not carry weapons because they are not allowed to and their government looks to the USA to protect them every time some threat comes their way...Go Figure! But hey if you are so anti American and so against our constitutional rights then you have my blessing to leave America and stay in one of those small countries that will eventually be owned by the threatening larger communist one..Have a safe voyage..lol

haha!

So far only Marc-1946992 makes more sense and does not repeat himself on this part of the debate.

Marc-1946992 makes more sense than anyone who replied to this specific post of his.

I do agree with Marc-1946992's reasoning on this matter.

I find it interesting that "we the people" have collapsed this comment string. Obviously, this site still believes in "the rule of the people."

It is unfortunate that "Marc" is so obviously a plant from the leftists here in the States. I can take any number of his statements and find similar verbiage in comments from/by B. Hussein Obama, Kagan, Clinton, "Wild Bill" Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Jesse Jackson, Ted Kennedy, etc.

I served in the US military for 16 years, been to "combat zones" and visited almost 24 countries. NOT ONE person I met had anything near the opinions of "Marc." The people I talked with (government, military, and civilian) wanted to know what it was like to live here, never stated how much better they had it and were genuinely surprised that I wanted THEIR opinion, input, etc.

"Marc" and sympathizers: Here are a few quotes to think on when you go to bed safely as us "red-neck wackos wit dem dair gunns" sleep peacefully knowing any jerk who tries to disturb our person, family, community, property, etc. will die of severe lead poisoning...(from WikiQuote)

• In his 1945 "Notes on Nationalism", Orwell claimed that the statement, "Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf" was a "grossly obvious" fact.
• Orwell did write, in his essay on Kipling, that the latter's "grasp of function, of who protects whom, is very sound. He sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them." (1942)
  • "Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep" - Rudyard Kipling (Tommy)
  • "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it." - Aaron Sorkin (A Few Good Men)
• Alternative: "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - Winston Churchill (miscellaneous quotation, no date)

To the S. Korean guy at the start. Didn't America go into your Country with guns to keep out communism and give you the freedoms you have today. No one was complaining about America's guns during the Korean Conflict.

Marc, you are an obvious plant, after googling some crime stats for South Korea I feel so much better and safer here in good ol' USA. Looks like Rape is a national pastime over there! I tell you right now someone comes lookin' for an easy target at my house and they better kiss their butts goodbye!

Marc,

Gun ownership vs the average citizen. Are you trying to say that the average citizen is not a gun owner?

In NH the average citizen IS a gunowner and we enjoy one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. I don't lock my home unless we are on an extended trip, I don't lock my car in my driveway, in fact we leave the keys in the ignition. Never had a break in or a vehicle stolen and I'm 60. And no I am not scared or to afraid to leave my home and I do not cower in a corner with a loaded weapon in my hand.

We know what's wrong with American Society and who has the guns and who commits the crimes that we all fear. It's unfortunate we are not allowed to discuss or address the cause for fear of being called a racist.

Therefore, we elect to protect ourselves, or at least level the playing field since the Police are not compelled to protect individuals, just society in general.

People I know feel much safer when carrying legally.

GO Back!

This AMERICA!

I wonder how safe those south Koreans are going to feel when North Korea decides to invade. I bet they will all be wishing they had the ability to defend themselves then.

Actually Marc is correct about the South Koreans not needing guns. It's the Americans in South Korea carrying the guns that keeps them being South Korea, and not Kim Jung Il's toilet. It isn't the worry of South Korea, because US Tax Payer Dollars keep them safe.

For proof, see Chinoan. The South Korean Response, let's turn on some loud speakers and send a few notes in hot air balloons. In America - Sink Our Ship, Loose your Ass. The message is Universal and requires NO EXPLANATION...

marcy marc and the bonehead bunch...hahaha...

Marc

Keep your ass in Korea and let us worry about our country,ok? If you think America is such a bad place, don't come here.

Tyler, you're a facsist. You collapsed the comment about how he should hide in his basement?!?! That was such an innocuous statement. You really are ridiculous Tyler. This guy is trolling to raise the ire of others in the room and you agree with him so you do nothing. I see how you are aTyler and so does the rest of the Newsvine community.

Theres 30 people in here that have a different view than he does and you in your infinite wisdom side with this guy and let him continue his leftist rant.

Hey Tyler, you have a happy Independence Day. You know, the day that we celebrate our FREEDOMS!

Jcj: So why not elect an official that will abolish the police force, and the National guard and allow citizens to form their own militia?

We, the citizens, ARE the milita.

The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.- Tench Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Tench Coxe: "As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." in "Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution," under the pseudonym "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789.

Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts: "Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." (spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, August 17, 1789.)

Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty." Rep. of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress at 750 (August 17, 1789).

Alexander Hamilton: "...that standing army can never be formidable (threatening) to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in the use of arms." (Federalist Paper #29)

Alexander Hamilton: "Little more can be aimed at with respect to the people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped." (Id) {responding to the claim that the militia itself could threaten liberty}" There is something so far-fetched, and so extravagant in the idea of danger of liberty from the militia that one is at a loss whether to treat it with gravity or raillery (mockery). (Id)

Alexander Hamilton: "The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious, if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, or even a week, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss. It would form an annual deduction from the productive labor of the country, to an amount which, calculating upon the present numbers of the people, would not fall far short of the whole expense of the civil establishments of all the States. To attempt a thing which would abridge the mass of labor and industry to so considerable an extent, would be unwise: and the experiment, if made, could not succeed, because it would not long be endured. Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped" – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No.2

Patrick Henry: "The people have a right to keep and bear arms." (Elliott, Debates at 185)

Patrick Henry: "Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in our possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?, 3 Elliot Debates 168-169.

Patrick Henry: "The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." 3 Elliot, Debates at 386.

Thomas Jefferson: "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.", letter to William S. Smith, 1787, in S. Padover (Ed.), Jefferson, On Democracy (1939), p. 20.

Thomas Jefferson In his Commonplace Book, Jefferson quotes Cesare Beccaria from his seminal work, On Crimes and Punishment: “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

Thomas Jefferson: "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Encyclopedia of T. Jefferson, 318 (Foley, Ed., 1967).

Thomas Jefferson: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.", Proposal for a Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed. 1950)

Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." (LIGHT HORSE HARRY) LEE, writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787-1788)

Richard Henry Lee: "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." (Additional letters from the Federal Farmer, at 169, 1788)

President James Madison: "...to support the Constitution, which is the cement of the Union, as well in its limitations as in its authorities; to respect the rights and authorities reserved to the States and to the people as equally incorporated with and essential to the success of the general system;... to keep within the requisite limits a standing military force, always remembering that an armed and trained militia is the firmest bulwark of republics – that without standing armies their liberty can never be in danger, nor with large ones safe;..." – President James Madison, First Inaugural address, Saturday, March 4, 1809.

James Madison: "A WELL REGULATED militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." (1st Annals of Congress, at 434, June 8th 1789, emphasis added.

James Madison: "As the greatest danger to liberty is from large standing armies, it is best to prevent them by an effectual provision for a good militia." (notes of debates in the 1787 Federal Convention)

George Mason: "I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people." (Elliott, Debates, 425-426)

Thomas Paine: "The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside... Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them..." I Writings of Thomas Paine at 56 (1894)

William Rawle: "In the second article, it is declared, that a well regulated militia is necessary to a free state; a proposition from which few will dissent. Although in actual war, in the services of regular troops are confessedly more valuable; yet while peace prevails, and in the commencement of a war before a regular force can be raised, the militia form the palladium of the country. They are ready to repel invasion, to suppress insurrection, and preserve the good order and peace of government. That they should be well regulated, is judiciously added. A disorderly militia is disgraceful to itself, and dangerous not to the enemy, but to its own country. The duty of the state government is, to adopt such regulation as will tend to make good soldiers with the least interruptions of the ordinary and useful occupations of civil life. In this all the Union has a strong and visible interest." – William Rawle, "A View of the Constitution of the United States of America" (1829)

Joseph Story: "The militia is the natural defense of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people." – Joseph Story. Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States. 3 vols. Boston, 1833.

Joseph Story (Supreme Court Justice): “The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic...”

Sir George Tucker: "The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest possible limits...and [when] the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." – Sir George Tucker, Judge of the Virginia Supreme Court and U.S. District Court of Virginia in I Blackstone COMMENTARIES Sir George Tucker Ed., 1803, pg. 300 (App.)

George Washington: "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."

IMPORTANT NOTE: Back in the 18th century, a "regular" army meant an army that had standard military equipment. So a "well regulated" army was simply one that was "well equipped" and organized. It does not refer to a professional army. The 17th century folks used the term "standing army" or "regulars" to describe a professional army. Therefore, "a well regulated militia" only means a well equipped militia that was organized and maintained internal discipline. It does not imply the modern meaning of "regulated," which means controlled or administered by some superior entity. Federal control over the militia comes from other parts of the Constitution, but not from the Second Amendment.

Marc1946992, you referenced how safe you were in South Korea. Guess what, this is NOT south korea. If criminals can get guns, they will get them, illegally if they have to.

So tell me, how safe will you feel when you are at a store full or unarmed civilians and then a group of armed criminals come in and start popping people off one by one? Wouldn't you wish before it's your turn to stop living that you had a gun or the other people had guns to defend you?

When guns are prohibited, only criminals carry guns. You want them having that advantage?

Pure Capitalism

Tyler, you're a facsist. You collapsed the comment about how he should hide in his basement?!?! That was such an innocuous statement. You really are ridiculous Tyler. This guy is trolling to raise the ire of others in the room and you agree with him so you do nothing. I see how you are aTyler and so does the rest of the Newsvine community.

Theres 30 people in here that have a different view than he does and you in your infinite wisdom side with this guy and let him continue his leftist rant.

Hey Tyler, you have a happy Independence Day. You know, the day that we celebrate our FREEDOMS!

That is because, Marc raises comments that has more sense compared to "all 30 people here that has different view than he does". If this were a debate competition, Marc could have won against "all 30 people here" who has different views than Marc has.

marcypoo

sorry...you don't get to decide...hahaha...."I also served"...what?...burgers at BK?

What's the difference if all the guns in the World disappeared today we would just go back to other ways of killing people and if necessary the slingshot. People kill people and people will continue to kill people with any form necessary.

Yep people will just find ways to make bigger and better bombs

You can't UN-INVENT something. Once it is out and people know how to make it, they will. I any one doubts that look up the term ZIP-GUN. Good luck on banning gun powder. It and a heavy wall pipe a cigarette lighter and a chunk of lead, with a little know how and you have a gun. It is even simpler if you buy factory ammo. Then you just need a pipe and a spring.

To be fair, we(the US) probably have just as many, if not more, drug dealers/users and gangs with weapons as S. Korea does. We have gangs of all cultures here in the US.

The US also has more than its share of people(with no prior history of violence) flying off the handle and killing others.

Since it appears to be a people problem and not a gun problem perhaps we should just ban people. I would think that would take a large chunk out of crime rates.

I lived in Daejeon for three years. . . did I miss all these killings and the rampant drug trade? I felt much safer in korea in general than walking the streets of LA. I do agree with the slavery part though. That was disgusting and inhumane. It is amazing how the gov't turns a blind eye to it all.

As far as gun laws I think we should be able to open carry a loaded weapon and take a certification for CC. I live in California so that will never happen. They are trying to pass a bill so that you can not even carry an empty weapon!

I think some of the politicians like Daley thing the Constitution is only good for wiping ones ass with now.

IT will just get turned over like any other gun law

Jay

Daley and his entire family and his ancestors are criminals and "gang" members...who cares ...S!tcago is just like most demo-socialist run states and cities..defunct , broke, filthy and full of corruption...dozer it under and let Jimmy "peanut head" Carter build Habitat homes on the rubble

Because here in Texas if someone breaks into our home or tries to carjack us, we can unload a gun into them and not have to worry about being prosecuted for murder. The criminals know that so are less likely to play Russian Roullette with the house they break into.

When the socialist get all your guns they will then be able to tell you what you will do and when and how you will do it. I will always have my guns and I will never register them and if some azzhole breaks into my house I will introduce him to my version of the second amendment. You people need to VOTE these dipsh!ts out this Nov and get rid of the idiot dumbass nobama in 2012.

The criminals end up dead and don't breed more criminals.

Indeed. Criminals don't care about laws.

Ditto!

Good post UMH ...

I wonder what part of -"shall not be abridged" confuses people ... it's not gun owners vs. everybody else - it's Americans exercising a right- a guaranteed "human right" as defined and accepted in the - ok you ready - Constitution. I an own a gun because I can - really pretty simple ... till you encounter someone with "control" issues :o))

To paraphrase Daley's recent remarks to a reporter:- "why don't you shove your new ordinance up your ass"!!

(NRA will be all over this !!)

Why don't we make a law that if politicians vote against the citizens then they must be removed from office immediately and that they no longer can become a politician ever again.... That the peoples voice carries in Chicago the ability to be able to rule over law against criminal politicians.

remove daley and chicago's politicians, remove daley and chicago's politicians, remove daley and chicago's politicians, remove daley and chicago's politicians, lets get this started.......... remove daley and chicago's politicians, remove daley and chicago's politicians.

I think the insurance would be so when a criminal got shot breaking into your house, he could sue you and get compensation for his pain and suffering.

Florida Law states that criminals can not sue us in a justifiable shooting. Other states should check into this. Thank you, Jeb Bush for fixing our gun laws.

think the insurance would be so when a criminal got shot breaking into your house, he could sue you and get compensation for his pain and suffering

I have a much cheaper policy, The rest of the ammo clip. What pain he is dead. If he isn't dead after the first clip he will be after I reload. Bit of a problem explaining the 14 some odd bullet holes in him?" I was scared, I panicked." next question.

Genius.

You have it backwards. Chicago has a LIBERAL gun ownership policy and Arizona has a CONSERVATIVE gun ownership policy. Arizona likes to conserve the principles of the Constitution.

You're actually confusing a LIBERAL with a LIBERTARIAN which is 2 entirely different things. Libertarians like freedom where Liberals like making more laws about everything. They also think they know whats best for us.... basically they have no clue of how the real world is.

Don't feel bad because many people make the same mistake. It is kind of tricky...

I am from Texas and I will always be a gun owner for as long as I live. I Guarantee it.

TXUS

Correct. A LIBERAL gun ownership policy means only the Libs can own a gun!

I'm not so sure the Daly "family" wants to go after all the criminals, just the competition!

ha! sometimes i wonder if the gov't is not already in control of the media! they treat obama as if he is the messiah! in reality he is a man with no regard for the constitution but rather his own agenda! 2012 is time for real change!

No, not fine. Last I checked Chicago is in the state of Illinois, which is still part of this country. Its citizens are Americans first and have all the same rights as the rest of us. It is illegal for states to pass laws that deny rights guaranteed by the US Constitution. Otherwise, what is stop another city from passing a law that says only property owners can vote?

America was founded on the elegant concept of personal liberty. Clearly, it is a concept that you don't understand. A good place to start would be the US Constitution.

Marc- Actually, my kids can walk to schoo by themselves. My wife CAN go out late at night alone with no fear. We CAN go into any part of a city at any time and feel safe. If you were afraid to do these things in America, as I suspect, that means it is YOU who is afraid. So afraid that you ran away to another land. I do not intend to be exiled, Marc. I am not a little coward hiding in a police state. Dont' you wish you could say the same? I am not afraid to do any of these things because I take responsiblity for my own safety, and don't think its someone else's job to keep me and my family secure.

Marc - I could not disagree with you more. I have done my military service and it allowed me to travel around the world, including S. Korea. By the way, I would never live there again. I own homes and businesses here in the States as well as in Germany and Namibia. There are also guns in all three homes.

You cannot compare S Korean or Germany to the US. There are distinct physical and cultural differences that need to be taken in to account. The US has a much great population dispersion than either of the other countries. I have lived places in the US where the nearest cop is over 30 minutes away. Crime was almost none existent but every house was armed and "neighbor" took care of each other. Police are a non factor.

Are we suppose to tell rural families that they are not allowed guns because their "city cousins" have problems with guns? Or are we suppose to tell the city families that the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to them because they live in a city?

The larger problem is cultural. The Koreans and the Germans believe in rules. I have seen Germans stand at a crosswalk at 2 am, with no cars or other people in sight, waiting for the light to turn so they can cross. They do it because that is the law. Here in the US, you can't get someone to do that during business hours let alone when no one else is around. Look at how many Americans speed or park in fire lanes. Too many believe that the rules don't apply to them.

You can't change cultural thinking. America has a gun culture. We are taught to be self-reliant. That is why are political system is being stressed right now. Part of the population believes that people should be responsible for themselves and their actions and the other side believes that the government is responsible for their lives, safety and every other aspect of their lives. If they get hurt, it is never their fault, it is always someone else's or something else's fault. Followed quickly with a law suit.

You will never make the States gun free. There are too many of us that are self reliant and willing to take responsibility for our own lives and actions.

I live in a big city and don't own a gun. I go out at night by myself all the time and I am completely unafraid. This country was built on certain rights, and while times have changed and things are much different I don't believe that means that our rights should be infringed on. I enjoy having freedom of speech and being able to speak my mind, I like my right to bear arms in case the need should arise, I like all the rights our constitution grants us. I think this is what the discussion needs to focus on. I feel that laws like these step all over my rights as an American citizen. I am glad for you that you have found your peace in a different country, but I've found mine here and enjoy living under the banner of our constitution and our flag.

" We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselved and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Happy 4th of July!

Freedom isn't free, and does come with a cost. You can live in a socialist society and be taxed through the nose if you like, and be told how to live and what to eat. That's not for me. I am glad you love your hell.

Then clean up that oil spill socialist Republican. Be self reliant. We are waiting for your private side to plug that leak...still waiting.

No,....you really want to live where big brother has your back, picks up after you, corrects your mistakes, gets other "governments" to loan us ships to clean up that "private side" mess.

NCarolinaGirl, you have just been lucky. Some may never cross paths with the killer, rapest, murder but it is just dumb luck.

I would rather have the option to fight back than depend on dumb luck.

Charles, I think you need to read NCarolinaGirl's post again. She is not against our rights. She is for them and speaks very well.

Hows life in Cuba, Marc? Love the spelling of your name (its so girly-girly). You didn't move to Canada as they have more guns per 1000 than the US. Where did you move yuou Libertard's Libertard?

Wow ... I have spent over two thirds of my life growing up in Asia (Japan, China, Taiwan, and Singapore namely) and even I know that each of these places of vibrant and rampant mafias whom the average citizen fears. Even the Japanese police have requested the assistance of US base forces to periodically crack down on them. Why are they so feared? Because they have GUNS and no one else does. Duh!

We will be safe when this country stops being soft on crime. Throw the key away on these criminals. No color t.v.s in prison, no work out rooms, make them get up at 5:00 in the morning and dig ditches, the prisons will certainly be less full , let's go back to the days of Alcatraz and mabe we wont have to worry about having a gun!

Marc, first off, if you live in a European country then all I can say is YOU'RE WELCOME!. If it wasn't for us crazy Americans you would all be speaking German. Second, sorry to bust your bubble, but I too have traveled the world and yes, there are many places that are very nice but there are also many places that are very dangerous. Including parts of London, Amsterdam, Vienna. Any large city, no matter where you go is going to have a dangerous part of town and you know it. So stop trying to act like America is the only dangerous place to live. That said, I do actually live in a small town in the western US where yes, I feel very safe, my kids and my wife can walk alone at night, and I have never once felt like I was in danger in all the years I have lived here. But, should the need ever arise. I'm prepared. I pitty the foolish would be gangster who tries to break into my home or hurt any member of my family. I have a lot of guns and I'm a very good shot with all of them. And that is the way I like it.

Marc - you make some very good and relevant points but like many anti-gun advocates you attack a symptom and not the disease.

Fundementals need fixing. Arming every citizen isnt the answer.

You stated this in an earlier post and I agree 100%. It isn't guns that are the problem, it's people. If we want to change our society for the better we have to change people and the way we think. I'm not advocating coercion or even manipulation - it's called accountability.

You also stated that if the US NEEDS guns to feel safe there is something wrong - I also agree with this statement. However, I think its unfair to assume that all Americans need guns to feel safe. As Jaeger Dean stated (20.3), guns are part of American culture. And to compare the US to Korea, Japan, China, or Germany is like to compare apple to oranges. The culture and history are too different.

As NCarolinaGirl stated, I'm happy that you've found a nice place. Good night and Happy Fourth!