Finally, the threat of arresting Israel's political leaders many countries around the world made in case they travel there has had an effect.

I'm sure the thought of getting stuck in Israel for life is not too appealing. Going back and forth from Haifa to Tel Aviv for vacation or entertainment grows old really fast.

But what probably hurt Israel most is the boycott against them. They have no trouble shooting a pregnant Palestinian woman and then make a t-shirt about it and say "One Shot Kills Two Terrorists", but take one penny from them and you'll never see a grown man cry so much.

I still cant believe Israelis were wearing those shirts. Its absolutely disgusting.

They broke under the pressure from Pres Obama and the world. Bout time!

Esam: Very good post! It is time for the US to not only cut its tie to foreign oil, but to also cut the flow of US tax dollars to Israel. Give it time to work, and put Hamas feet to the fire regarding violence towards Israel. See which side flinches first, then punish the offender. The ONLY way to peace b/t Israel and Palestine is equal expectations from the international community. Israel must stop collective punishment and Hamas must stop attacks on Israel. Anything less is onle WINDOW DRESSING.

Andy Blue: Take a trip to ISRAEL and you will see first hand why tourists would rather travel to Jordan than to Israel. They are brutal and disgusting and will make youe life hell for you if they suspect that you support peace b/t Israel and Palestine. I have met so many more Palestinians who voice peace than Israelis......Americans are brainwashed by the pro-Israeli controlled corporate media in the US........WAKE UP AMERICA!

Yes, David, they can be brutal and digustingly provoking! They really do not want Americans only our money---unless you are orthodox with a bunch of kids who wants to live on the dole and study the Torah without working in the Palestinian settlements!

The American media have whitewashed this for years and the Congress has given them over a $trillion over the past two decades--notincluding armaments! I am appalled the Obama admin is supporting this none investigation by the Israeli's...Rahm needs to go back to Chicago and Congress needs to cut off ALL THE MONIES..call them 1.800.828.0498!

Suspicions are that Hamas will use the building materials to build fortifications from which they will send more missiles into Israel.

Hate is more important to Hamas than their own people. Makes me sick how these scumbags hide behind their women and children.

They're depraved!

Nice propaganda, getalifevirginia. You have no proof; only "suspicions". Well, we could just as well say we "have a suspicion that Israel wants to turn all Palestinian children into zombie slaves". Both your statement and mine are ridiculous.

Palestinians need construction equipment to rebuild the homes the Israelis tore down on top of their childrens' heads.

The grip of Hamas on the people will not ease due to this. If anything it increases it. There was an article in Der Spiegel about the way the people who support Hamas and those that do not are treated.

If interested you might want to Google it is is quite an eye opener.

Andy Blue: Take a trip to ISRAEL and you will see first hand why tourists would rather travel to Jordan than to Israel. They are brutal and disgusting and will make youe life hell for you if they suspect that you support peace b/t Israel and Palestine. I have met so many more Palestinians who voice peace than Israelis......Americans are brainwashed by the pro-Israeli controlled corporate media in the US........WAKE UP AMERICA!

I have been to Israel, 6 times, have you? I have met plenty of people from all sides and EVERY ONE OF THEM want peace, Jews and Palestinians and Armenians and Druze... I've never met a single person in that country anywhere that was not friendly, outgoing and excited to see an American. I've been from Rosh Hanikra to Ein Gedi and never once felt threatened by anyone. You seem to be trying to stir things up for no good reason.

Have you also been to Gaza, West Bank, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon to see the other side of things?

Wow an article stating that Israel is doing something (which is also the right thing in this case) EVERYONE should agree on and yet it's dominated by anti-Israeli posts!! Who would have imagined that??

I've been to Israel, West Bank, Jordan and Egypt, and everyone there wants peace a lot more than the people on Newsvine who are demonizing Israel.

Just another fear demonstration for Israel, and the Christian right, of Gods love and mercy for some, allowing the Palestinian children some food and some toys, under the weight of the world's blasphemers, manna from heaven.

Reagan and David, what are you talking about? Israel is one of the nicest places to visit... If you knew anything, you'd know they live off of tourism so making others unwelcome is virtualy self-destructive. If you just feel like picking a fight, go to a bar.

As for the Palestinians, yes, they are poor, they suffer, and they deserve to rebuild their homes and schools, but not at the expence of innocent lives. And what do I mean by that? Hamas starves their own ppl just to get support, pitty, and money. Israel's only sin is being neighbours with Hamas. Please note that the area which is NOT governed by terrorists is free to do what they please, never gets hurt, and lives in much greater prosperity than their terrorist neighbours.

It's so easy to pick a side without even being informed. Read, learn, visit, and try to understand that the only enemy is Hamas, not Israelis and not Palestinians, just Hamas.

misrighteous. Thank you for your comments. The Palestinians are victims of their "elected" Hamas government. they only voted in Hamas after being stepped on for years by Arafat lead Fatah. Now, Fatah seems to be the more moderate organization as Hamas has evolved into what it is, a terrorist organization.

The Hamas/Iran PR campaign has done a great job in manipulating the minds of plain folk as evidenced by the comments here. Did anyone notice this comment in the article:

Israel imposed the blockade in 2007 after Hamas, which calls for Israel's destruction, violently seized control of Gaza.

I have been to Israel Egypt and Jordan, and even the West Bank. I have spoken with Palestinians who cross the West Bank border to work for Israelis, as well as Arabs who live peacefully among the Israelis. For that matter, many West Bank Palestinians settlements are within a stone's throw of Israeli Jerusalem. They are developing better relationships.

Does anyone realize the problem today is Hamas and their backer Iran? While the West Bank is not perfect, what is, Gaza is controlled by terrorists who hide behind women and children, commit terrorist acts, all in conjunction with their charter which calls for the destruction of Israel.

What is not clear about this?

Suspicions are that Hamas will use the building materials to build fortifications from which they will send more missiles into Israel.

and if those suspicions are right, it won't make one iota of difference. Wood and even concrete structures built by Hamas as 100% absolutely NO MATCH for Israeli cruise missiles and laser-guided bombs.

Israel imposed the blockade in 2007 after Hamas, which calls for Israel's destruction, violently seized control of Gaza.

yes, Hamas "violently seized control of Gaza" in free and fair democratic elections monitored by the same international agencies that monitor our elections. Love or hate Hamas, but they won their election.

The line you quoted from the article shows the media's bent in favor of Israel, not the other way around as you suggest. To say that the media favors Palestine is just plain laughable

DrowningGrover

What indicates the media's bend, have you read the Hamas charter which calls for the destruction of Israel? That is a fact, not bend.

I believe you are confusing the election with the events following the election. Hamas won the election, as I said, because Fatah had failed the Gazans under Arafat. Hamas won the streets of Gaza through violence. THEN, the violent ouster of Fatah occurred.

I did say that the Hamas/Iranian PR campaign is so strong that it has swayed people on this vine. How anyone could be supportive of an organization that states it's goal is the destruction of another country is indicative of the the success of that PR program.

You may say that you are not supportive of Hamas, but if you support the elimination of the embargo then you support the arming of Hamas.

I too have been to Israel many times as well as Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Bahrain, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi and Dubai. I also lived in Cyprus for an extended period of time including when they had the coup staged by the Turkish govt and lived in Iran in the mid-60's fro a year.

Kuwait was the only country I do not have good memories of but it took almost 10 hours to clear and be allowed in which is a story for another time. Much of my travel has been over the years and some of the experiences had to do with the way the world was then.

I am always amazed when people blame the way Americans are thought of as having to do with one specific incident or one specific country. I have been travelling and living back and forth for over 40 years and there have been many times that American Passport was not the door opener I once thought it would always be. To blame one person or one country is absurd.

My last trip to Israel I am sorry to say while it had some good points I was in Hafia in the summer of 06 when Hezbollah bombed there. Living in Cyprus though when the Turkish coup occurred it is sad to say that being bombed was not new to me. The 1st time changed me in ways I still cannot always explain though and I realize what both sides live with on an ongoing basis.

Even though Hamas won the elections it did not come into power in the normal way/they did have to seize Gaza from Fatah and it is one of the reasons Egypt has been steadfast in suppost of the blockade to support Fatah.

Fred G. from N.C.

Wow an article stating that Israel is doing something (which is also the right thing in this case) EVERYONE should agree on and yet it's dominated by anti-Israeli posts!! Who would have imagined that??

There's a reason for that Fred...look at what it took for Israel to even consider doing the "right' thing... Do you think they would have done this on their own, without International pressure? Or if the flotilla had not run the blockade? Israel is doing the "right" thing because it has NO CHOICE.

DrowningGrover

yes, Hamas "violently seized control of Gaza" in free and fair democratic elections monitored by the same international agencies that monitor our elections. Love or hate Hamas, but they won their election.

It would take a hell of a lot to convince me that those elections were "free and fair"... I think intimidation and bribes went a long way in deciding the winner...

If Hamas disappeared from the planet, the international community would rally behind the palestinians and demand fair treatment for them from Israel, and an end to the land grabs and settlements...

These not too brilliant people are learning;slowly,slowly.

It is not uncommon for honest people to turn to Thugs and street gangs for protection when they are being beaten, killed and robbed...happens in big cities everyday...it is survival. That is the only reason Hamas came into power.....Palestinians felt helpless and had no other power base to turn to. People take desperate measures in desperate times...if not, ALL their land would have Jewish settlements on it!

Chief, you are completely ignoring what happened BEFORE Hammas came to power. Palestinians have suffered under corrupting governments for a looooooooong time. Stop blaming it all on Israel.

Ed: I've been to Israel 12 times, go every year. Also been to Gaza and the West Bank. Have YOU been to Gaza, ever been bombed by F-16s while doing humanitarian work in Gaza that was blessed by the US and Israel??? Get your head out of your ars. Until you feel the concussion of the shock bombs used against US citizens in Gaza doing humanitarian work, stfu....I agree that Israelis are very happy to see American tourists (American $$$), but not as glad as Palestinians are to see us coming with medical equipment and medicine for their children. WAKE UP ED!!!!

David, I believe it is your head that is at the moment enclosed in a moist and quite dark place, not Ed's. I applaud you for your humanitarian work, but if you are willing to go to a war zone, then you must be willing to deal with the consequences, one of them being F-16s flying over your head.

been to israel a handful of times myself (as well as the rest of the middle east), and yes, the israelis love americans, no doubt. but the first word out of your mouth to suggest israel is anything but gracious to the palestinians will change attitudes *very* quickly. i won't make that mistake twice.

Who really is Hamas? Hamas is an organization made up of men and women (some Christians as shown in the 6 Christian candidates Hamas ran during the Jan. 2006 elections) who have been born, gone to school, work and marry under a ruthless military occupation and siege, and who are now watching their children and grandchildren being born, going to school, work and marry under the same ruthless military occupation and siege, which is now in its 43rd year.
Who in the world wouldn't be upset about living under those conditions? Heck, even Helen Thomas had a "Hamas moment" a few days ago when she lashed out all Israelis advising them to go back to certain parts of Europe.
And yet look how since Kennedy was president Ms. Thomas did a very decent job as a journalist. Why then think Hamas is so single-minded and hopeless to deal with?
Judge a people by what they do with their freedom and not when they've been deprived of their freedom with a military occupation and a siege.

You quite conveniently leave out the terrorist acts? The money laundering? The strapping of bombs on children? The proud picture a mother holds of her 8 year old holding a rifle? The outcry for hate? The demand of being the only country to occupy Israel? The muslim regime? The beating of women? The racism? The sexism? I could go on, but I don't even know why I should. Why am I trying to explain to you about Hammas... Anyone who supports a terrorist organization is hopeless. Tell me that the people of Palestine are innocent and poor, and I will agree, but tell me that Hammas is innocent and poor, and I'll shrug my shoulders and walk away from you. It makes me sad that there are people who are so blind to evil.

What is wrong with you airheads ?Don't you know that the muslims will never rest untill all of the Jews in the middle east and most of all in Israel is taken over by the muslims .The jews have as much right to live in the middle east as the muslims ,they have been there way before christ was born ,I don't understand the hate sprewed from you people toward the jews .The only explanation is you are brained washed by the Obama bunch who have been snubbing Israel ever since he has been in office ,Obamas muslim hertiage seems to be creping into the liberal democratic party.The Hamas loving liberal democrats will have their butts replaced in November and the all mighty Obama will be out of there in 2 1/2 years then some common sense will be regained in our country.

COORECTION: Hamas is a group of men and women CREATED IN 1987, 2O YEARS AFTER ISRAEL OCCUPIED THEIR LAND.

EVERY WORD, EVERY DEED, EVERY BREATH TAKEN BY EVERY PALESTINIAN HAS BEEN A-F-T-E-R THE FACT.

AGAIN: Judge a people by what they do with their freedom and not when they've been deprived of their freedom with a military occupation and a siege, NOW IN ITS 43RD FREAKING YEAR.

THE ORIGINAL SIN:

"If we had invested one tenth of the energy, the passion , the ingenuity, the resourcefulness which we developed in order to gaint he support of Britain, France, the US and Weimar Germany, our destiny in the development of Israel may have been quite different. We were not ready for compromises; we did not regard it as a major problem. We did not make sufficient efforts to get, if not the full agreement of the Arabs, at least their acquiescence to a Jewish state, which I think would have been possible. That was the original sin."

Dr. Nahum Goldmann, President World Jewish Congress, 1974.

Esam, clearly you support the Palestinian cause at Israel's expense. You call this an "occupation", but I say the occupation of Gaza is those who insist the only way to the future is through bombs and bullets. Israel is not going away. Ever. The Palestinians are not going away. Ever. If you want to end this conflict, then get rid of those who keep it going, namely Hamas. And what's this I read in Newsweek about Gaza descending into a culture of fiefdoms, where the largest families rule the neighborhoods, and creating any offense results in killings? Is that what the Palestinians are made of? When left to themselves they resort to mob mentality and racketeering? But then that won't be discussed widely, because it would eliminate the image of the poor, suffering freedom fighter. Hamas allows the lie to support it's agenda, and that blows all their credibility, if they had any.

I wasn't going to reply to you, at all. Like I said before, if you support terrorism, there is nothing I have or want to say to you. But I will comment on your quote about not judging ppl when they are occupied.

Quite the opposite. It's all too easy to judge someone when life is wonderful. A person's (or peoples in this case) true colors come out in times of trouble. So yes, I will most definitely judge them for their current actions. It's what you do when you're down that matters. You can either try to get up again and make things right, or you can try and ruin everyone around you so they can come down to your level.

Hello? This is Earth to space cadets Levi and Miss, can you hear me? Levi777 and Missrighteous are you there? Hello?

Oh, well, apparently they got lost in their own world. How sad.

Hamas was created to bring Israel to the table for the creation of a Palestinean State. Once Israel has done that, Hamas will pretty much disappear.

So will quite a few US problems in the Middle East

Hammas is the DELAY to the creation of a Palestinean State. Once Hammas is gone, the problems will pretty much disappear.

(Sipping my Margarita) Hey, remember back then when they used to say Arafat was the problem? Remember that?

Remember how when Arafat died in 2004 Mahmoud Abbas became the new Palestinian leader. Remember that? And Remember how Abbas was President for an entire year, and entire year, before Hamas won parliamentary majority in the 2006 elections?

(Sipping more of my Margarita) And remember how for that entire year the Israeli Prime Minister kept saying how Abbas was "irrelevant", and kept repeating that as an excuse not to negotiate a peace agreement with Abbas?

And, please, keep in mind Hamas is a political party, just like the many Israeli political parties who keep calling for the expulsion of Palestinians, in and outside Israel, and calling for the prevention of a Palestinian state. And, yet, these Israeli parties are part of the Israeli parliament with every one of their members having served in the Israeli army responsible for the occupation, siege and killings of thousands of Palestinians. And, yet, no one is saying these racist Israeli political parties have to change or else the Palestinians cannot make peace with Israel.

(Looking out my window, sipping my Margarita, thinking "What a bunch of freaking hypocrytes!")

And do you not see the difference between have someone in your government call for the expulsion of someone else, and having the HEAD of your government call for the EXTERMINATION of someone else? There is no difference, is there?

And you would deny ppl like Arafat being a problem? Would you? While his whole family is wiping their bums with money that belongs to the Palestinian people?

Esam, maybe you've had one margarita too many.

Excuses, excuses. Time to grow up, Missy, time to grow up.

Israeli army confirms killing militant along Egyptian border
People's Daily Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:00 PM PDT
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on Wednesday confirmed that their soldiers killed an armed man along Egyptian border this morning who was engaged in a terrorist attack against Israel. Early Wednesday morning, Israeli forces opened fire at an armed group trying to cross the Israeli-Egyptian border, 40 km north of the Israeli city of Eilat, the IDF spokesman's office said in a statement. One of ...

I don't know Esam, it seems to me like I'm the one who can counter your points, but when it comes to you, you come up with things like 'excuses excuses' or 'earth to...'

Doesn't seem like I'm the one who has to grow up.

Right and the King of Egypt raped 15 woman at one time too!!!

(Looking out my window, sipping my Margarita, thinking "What a bunch of freaking hypocrytes!")

Bravo Esam that whole post was brilliant. I have seen no rebuttals--cat musta got their tongues? ha, brilliant.

Then you must have been screening me because I answered his brilliant argument.

oh yes, I read what you said Miss, but answer, no you did not.

The Palestinian people have been victims since 1948, victims of their Arabic/Islamic/Muslim brothers.

After the first war, Egypt took Sinai and Gaza, Jordan took the West Bank, the Palestinians (who actually didn't exist by that name) were put in refugee camps as pawns.

Over time Egypt and Jordan became more moderate and recognized Israel, while the Palestinians searched for some other organization to take advantage of them. They found the PLO and Arafat who victimized them again.

While Arafat brutalized the Palestinians, again using them as pawns, Hamas recognized the opportunity and started offering services to the Palestinians. When Arafat died, Hamas won over the people from Fatah, and then violently threw Fatah out of Gaza, only to victimize the Palestinians again

Whil I feel sorry for the Palestinians, I recognize that they continually seek the wrong leaders, and are used by terrorists over and over again.

Israel is not occupying Gaza, Hamas is.

The Iran/Hamas PR campaign has been so successful, it has convinced many of the people on this page that Hamas is a good organization. Don't blame those people for falling for that, they are victims as well.

Well, seems mr. Lar is more articulate than me and posted a perfectly respectable answer for you.

Thank you Lar!

But Lar, as for your quote: he Iran/Hamas PR campaign has been so successful, it has convinced many of the people on this page that Hamas is a good organization. Don't blame those people for falling for that, they are victims as well.

I do not agree with that. I understand that the very Palestinians are brain washed, and I do not blame them because it is what they see, breathe, eat and live. But the people in the western world SHOULD be accountable for buying into Hammas' PR. They have enough tools to know better.

The Palestinian people have been victims since 1948

This about says it all mrs and lar. Hmm what could that date mean?

Even you mrs ought to be able to process that.

bealldmourji

Because there were NO Palestinians before 1948, they were Arabs. The name was created to fabricate an illusion that they had been in the land before the Jews. Wrong. The Jews have been there for 3000 years, long before Mohamed had his bris.

bealdmourji I also disagree with Miss. You ARE a victim, a victim of the very strong Hamas/Iranian PR campaign that made you think the Israelis have no right to existence and have been victimizing the Palestinians. I don't blame you for being mislead. It takes a sharp mind to understand that, Missrighteous understands that.

Missrighteous I thank you for your comments

Lar:

Before the 1948 war every Arab country that bordered historical Palestine became independent. That, in itself, defined Palestine.

It was understood where Palestine was, who lived there, and how the British Mandate for Palestine administered the country.

After the three Zionist terrorist groups initiated their ethnic cleansing in November of 1947 culminating with the expulsion of over 800,000 Palestinians and the erasure from the face of the earth of more than 400 Palestinian villages and towns, Egypt and Jordan administered what was left of Palestine. The Sinai has always been part of Egypt.

Your comment that the Sinai was taken over Egypt in "the first war" shows your complete ignorance of the matter. If anything, it was Israel along with Great Britain and France who took the Sinai during the 1956 Suez War.

Fortunately, the US had an amazing president at the time, Dwight Eisenhower, who told the Israelis and its imperial allies to get real and give back the Sinai to Egypt.

Unfortunately, by 1967 the political culture in the US changed after it became a more aggresive country due to its invasion and savagery of Vietnam. Israel took note of this and went ahead to take over the Sinai again along with the rest of historical Palestine.

Hamas didn't come into existance until 1987, in the same way Hizbollah didn't come into existance until Israel invaded Lebanon for a second time in 1982.

It should be more than clear that it's Israel who is the brute here.

The golden cow went into labor and after 3 years delivered a caesarean mouse.

This is an Israeli public relations stunt. This counterfeit resolution is designed as a window dressing for the siege and to falsify its legality and to mislead the International Public Opinion through the impression on relieving the siege.

What is needed is a complete lifting of the siege - goods and people must be free to enter and leave. This siege is a flagrant violation of international law and the most appalling collective punishment that include food, medicine, fuel and construction materials.

Esam Ethnic cleansing in 1947???? 160,00 Arabs STAYED in Israel and became Israeli Citizens, and some joined the Knesset. The Arabs that left, did so at the urging of their Arab brothers who were planning to attack Israel the day it was born. The 800,000 that left were not Palestinians, because....

Again, Esam, there were no Palestinians before 1948.

The US became savage!!! Sorry my friend, a savage is a man who kills a 3 year old child by smashing his head open with his rifle butt. Samir Kuntar, one of your people, and when the Israelis release him from prison, he returned to your country a hero. Your people worship such terrorists. Don't call America savage. I feel sorry for your views.

Sleep well.

The name of Palestine was coined by the Greek historian Herodotus, also know as the father of all historians, back in 400 BC. Or, as the Greeks say, Palestina.

Jerusalem, for example, was founded by the Canaanites at least 800 years before any Jews set foot on it. And the same goes for cities like Meggido and Jericho and so on. Herodotus took this into consideration when naming the area Palestina.

By the time the Arabs came to help the Palestinians during the 1948 War the Zionists had already expelled over 300,000 Palestinians. But just like NATO failed to stop the demented minority Serbs in the late 1990's from expelling more Kosovo Albanians (250,000 expelled before NATO intervention, 200,000 more after NATO intervention), the Arabs also failed and the demented Zionists terrorists expelled an additional 500,000 Palestinians.

As far as Vietnam is concerned, yeah, 1 million people killed makes you a savage.

there were no Palestinians before 1948.

Well if you have to be a nation state to have a home, I guess no people who existed without a nation state before their inception at the earlier stage in maybe the 1700 or the real rise of the nation states in the 1800s would be just SOL There Indigenous people did not get their first nation status until recently, that doesn't make them any less a people. The Palestinians are a people whether you like it or not.

They have a lineage, a culture, and a bond to the land they have lived on with a continuous presence for generations. I would say that gives them rights to that land over someone from Brooklyn, who is of European extraction.

Bealdmourj

You missed the point. They were never called Palestinians until 1948, part of the PR strategy that has duped much of the world including you.

Esam I am relived to know that you are not in the U.S. Your views and mine are so different. That's what makes the world so interesting. I would send you a chocolate bar if I thought it could get through the blockade.

Doesn't matter what they were called. They were there, living on the land, and they call themselves as a group Palestinians. That says it all really.

Israel needs to rebuild Gaza. The 1400 people they killed in the most recent conflict cannot be replaced. No more destruction of homes in the West Bank. The palestinians are being robbed of food and water and building materials and held at gun point daily. The palestinian children have never known peace or a reprieve from the horrors of Israel's "police state".

The palestinian children have never known peace or a reprieve from the horrors of Israel's "police state".

I would add that all the Palestinians was well as the rest of the world that reaps the consequences of this Israeli Police State all need some relief. Israel is here to stay, but it cannot just continue with its present policies and present expansion.

Thank you Jan,great comment.

And what about the state of Israel, beald, can it go on living with rockets being fired into its lands and martyrs being sent in daily?

Wouldn't you agree that there is some sense in demanding a complete cease fire from Hammas AND a written statement abolishing what they had said earlier, that they call for the demise of Israel, in order to concider lifting the blockade?

I'm not here to bash anyone, and it's all nice and very educative to read about the region's history... But don't we want to solve the problem? Don't you want the Palestinians to be a free people, to trade and go and come as they please? Do you really think it is too much to demand the above-mentioned from the Palestinians?

Esam is right, and Lars is plaing with semantics. Palestine DID exist, Lars, even before the British laid that title upon the HOLY LAND. Drop the crap.

missrighteous... do you know that the first six leaders of Israel were terrorists? Self-proclaimed terrorists? That every one of them, including Golda Maier, killed people?

you're just being self-righteous, lady- there's no easy answers there. BUT, if we get Israel to create the Palestinean State, many of our problems with the Middle East start to solve themselves

Mrsrachel:
Israel doesn't want Hamas to stopstop, because then they would have no excuse for their behavior. Hamas is their baby, they nutured Hamas, and and it gave them an excuse for a totally unbalanced response that the whole world recognized as an inappropriate response. Everyone knows that Hamas has said they no longer hold to the destruction of Israel, but still pro Israelis love to spout that Hamas'charter says blah blah blah despite the fact that they know Hamas has disavowed this. So why believe someone who insists on repeating something to stir up anti Muslim hatred when everyone knows that they know it is untrue?

I wonder how long it will be before rockets are fired into Israel again??? How long will it take before the World see the Muslin are the Tarriest not Israel???

The rockets never stopped IMK it doesn't take many people to launch a good amountof those rockets. To blame an entire culture for the actions of a few is just stupid. Which is why this blockade was stupid it was collective punishment .

The Palestinians have arrested Palestinians for rockets before. Also before Cast Lead the rocket attacks had really declined. By 2009 I think a total of 26 people had been killed by the rockets which was why the 1400 killed was considered both collective punishment and disproportionate response by the international community . Collective punishment is a violation of international law as well.

David: Hamas will shoot Rockets into Israel and Israel will get blamed for attacking them!!! Can't you see the same cycle happening over and over again???

Imk02:
You can look it up yourself. Hamas has arrested Palestinians for shooting rockets. This is true and easy to find for yourself. The overkill by Israel has been condemned worldwide.

And still no one actually answered my question... What is so wrong about demanding a complete and utter cease fire AND a change of the Hammas charter before lifting the blockade?

Again, people like to talk about religion, and the past, and what not. But isn't the present and the future what we should be thinking of?

Wether you are pro Palestine or pro Israel, I don't see how you can deny that changing the chartes and STOPPING the rockets could be wrong? Quite the opposite. If Hammas would just prove that it wants peace, Israel would have no other choice but to give in. Hell, I would be the first one to condemn Israel if it wouldn't. But no one in their right minds can demand anything from Israel until its borders are safe.

And still no one actually answered my question... What is so wrong about demanding a complete and utter cease fire AND a change of the Hammas charter before lifting the blockade?

Hamas has arrested Palestinians for rockets.
They have said that they have changed their position on the state of Israel.

If they make the same mistake as Fatah, by agreeing to every demand before they get the blockade lifted, or get any type of commitment to a state, what you will get will make Hamas look like the Rockettes. Israel has shown what it does with weakness. Look what happened to Fatah.

missrighteous: (excus me, I mean miss self-righteous): I was replying to ED, not YOU. STFU!!!

imk02: Yes, of course, that is why Hamas needs to be disarmed. But, Israel does not really want Hamas to be disarmed, Israel actually enjoys the pity when Hamas takes these illogical actions. By the way, the rockets that are fired, most are home-made and are as effective as the Estes model rockets you can get from your local hobby shop. If Hamas, or better yet all the Palestinians living in Gaza were disarmed, Israel would wipe them off the face of the map using other means.....like poisoning the wells, etc.

Egypt says will not alter Palestinian unity pact
AlertNet Sat, 19 Jun 2010 07:18 AM PDT
Source: Reuters * Egypt denies accepting Hamas request to amend pact * Abbas's Fatah signed Egypt-written pact, Hamas refuses * Palestinian unity crucial to any peace moves with Israel (edits headline) By ...

missrighteous: (excus me, I mean miss self-righteous): I was replying to ED, not YOU. STFU!!!

David, you sound like such a reasonable and even minded person with so much to say... Nice post, really, I love the way you can reason anyone into agreeing with you.

And by the way, arresting Fatah members and saying you did so for firing rockets is a bit shaky. And phrases such as:

"The government in Gaza is in charge of the situation, and it does know clearly who launches rockets," Taha told the BBC. "It is working hard to deter any faction from acting individually.

If you read the sentence correctly, you will not forget the word INDIVIDUALLY. They are not stopping them from acting, they are stopping them from acting without their permission. Huge difference.

Agree. I always say isnt it great that no Israeli will ever have to worry about medical bills, destroyed credit, loss of home, job and dignity because they get sick Thanks to the American Taxpayers.

Too bad we dont have the same benefits from our tax dollars. AIPAC has more influence on our government than American taxpayers.

As I understand it, it Palestine that bombs Israel all the time. Furthermore, Israel even has offered to GIVE up some land to settle the disbute. However, Palestine will not abide by the agreements. What is Israel suppose to do?

some of the land?? Rediculous argument. What if we were invaded and the entire west coast was taken? Would you be happy if we were offered Florida as a compromise?

I dont think so. Israel keeps saying they need the land because of their population growth. When does that end? It wont.

And to add further insult they are kicking Palestinians out of their homes and building more housing for Israelis. Would you just accept that?

Id want to blow their freaking heads off too.

Shameless greedy people who will NEVER stop taking. Taking from their neighbors and taking from American Taxpayers. What do we receive in return?? The promise that they will keep taking. Thats all.

They arent worth it unless you are a christian who believes in fairy tales and think they are the "chosen ones" and your ticket into the pearly gates. Rediculous nonsense used to influence fools.

I hope an earthquake puts the holy city of filth greed and death into the sea. Maybe someone will just nuke Israel. I wont shed any tears.

GetTheFacts --

As I understand it, it Palestine that bombs Israel all the time. Furthermore, Israel even has offered to GIVE up some land to settle the disbute. However, Palestine will not abide by the agreements. What is Israel suppose to do?

I would encourage you to get the facts.

Just Google how many Israeli's have actually been killed, and compare it to how many Palestinians. A good site for such raw data is ifamericansknew.org.

AndyBlue-674311

some of the land??

No not some of the land "ALL OF THE LAND"

As I have said before what Isreal is afraid of is an other "Holocaust" They want the land for all Jews that want to come there.

The Government will not make peace and all there waiting for is a chance to say See we gave a little and look what happens they fired a rocket and it landed on some farm land and now we must respond and kill more of them. In case they may kill one Israeli.

They remind me of the cops where I live in Florida fire 50 bullets to kill one bank robber who can't get away and almost kill a child and a mother.

GetTheFacts, as threepence suggested, you need to. Every time Israel has said a particular piece of land would be for the Palestinians, Israel immediately begins building settlements on it. I suspect there are lots of Israelis who want a peaceful solution, but if they keep voting in their right wingers, they won't get there.

Israel is accused of violating the Palestinian Arabs’ human rights. But is there a right to statehood? Chechens and Basques would love to know that. Perhaps Palestinians suffer unreasonably? I’d love to see a nation more lenient toward terrorists and enemies than Israel. Poor Palestinians! Under Israeli oppression, they breed at one of the world’s highest rates and boast the highest economic growth among Muslim populations not endowed with oil-wealth. And certainly, the UN “human rights” pundits have no more pressing concerns in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, or any of dozens of other countries, that they have devoted more than 90 percent of their resolutions to criticism of Jews.

Threepence and Andyblue - What the hell does the number of casualties have to do with it? Is it Israel's fault that the Palestinians don't even know how to aim their own rockets? It's not only death that one fears. How would you react if everyday and every night an alarm suddenly goes off and you have to grap your children and run into a bomb proof shelter? So what if you don't die, it ruins your life. Children live in fear. Because maybe one day the rocket won't land in a field and it might land in someone's house. So yes, you bomb them right back, and you hope that you can actually hit your target, unlike your imbecile enemy.

And don't start talking about land, because Israel banishes its own citizens and destroys its own homes to give the land back to the Palestinians. Israel arrests its own soldiers when they refuse to evacuate Israelis. Israel is willing to start giving back the lands (and yes, everything has to start somehwere), but the Hammas administration wants all or nothing. Life and politics just don't work that way.

Missrighteous

oh, so you would rather be a Palestinian and live in Gaza? Think it would be better?

Absolutely not. I pitty them, I wish I could help them. I wish I could get rid of Hammas, give the Palestinians a worthy leader who could provide them with the leadership they need. I am not saying they are better off, but I am saying that Israel had no other choice but to go in and try to destroy any rockets or launchpads that Hammas owned, even if the cowards hid them under schools.

I am not anti-palestine, I want them to have their own country, I want them to live in peace with Israel, but you must realize that this will never happen as long as a terrorist organization is leading them.

AndyBlue - "maybe someone will nuke them"? Are you sure you are not related to Iran's so called president?

Since when did we all become neo nazi jew hating skin heads? So many negative post, some of you folks are "drinking to much of the coolaid".

Go Israel, the next rocket thats get shot at you hit em again with the F-16s and Apaches. Notice how "peaceful and quite" it was for a few months after they did that. Seemed rather effective.

missrighteous --

How would you react if everyday and every night an alarm suddenly goes off and you have to grap your children and run into a bomb proof shelter? So what if you don't die, it ruins your life. Children live in fear.

You mean they have to get out of their comfy beds in their nice homes and go to their bomb shelters? Too bad the Palestinians don't have any of those creature comforts.

As for the fear of children, I think those children who routinely see their friends and families murdered are probably a tad more fearful than those who only listen to boogey-men stories about the Muslim Monsters who will grab them in the night if they aren't good little boys and girls.

Again, compare the numbers of dead Israeli children with dead Palestinian children. And yes, the numbers DO matter.

threepence - so now you are blaming them for having comfortable beds?!

And if the Palestinians don't have shelters, it's because they spent the money on other things. Do NOT blame Israel for having been smart with its capital, for having built shelter FIRST and weapons later.

Being smart and prepared is not a crime.

How can you steal land that was stolen from you in the first place??? They won the land fairly in 4 different wars!!!

What would you do if People shot rockets into your Country???

Right Israel shoots rockets in their own country just so they can attack Hamas right???

Do NOT blame Israel for having been smart with its capital, for having built shelter FIRST and weapons later.

Like when they became a nation by massacres?

build shelters miss ? With what? They won't even let in coriander. I guess they could build shelters with cinnamon? And anyway the weapons Israel used in cast lead killed people who were in UN shelters that the UN had given the coordinates of to Israel. So, count the people dead and decide if you would rather live in the conditions in gaza or Israel. Plus the terrorism against gaza is state terror. Hamas has arrested people for shooting rockets into Israel. If they placate Israel too much they will go the way of Fatah and get nothing in return. Israel has no interest in a Palestinian State of their own.

Wait, you mean the palestinian territory ruled by Fatah has nothing? I´ll have you know that ther people there are so much better off... Why? Cause they stopped attacking Israel, and Israel has no choice but to stop attacking them. Why can't Hammas do the same?

And arresting people who launch rockets is not placating Israel, it's being honest and responsible and showing the world that they can rule with decency. It's the very mindset of thinking that arresting terrorists is the same as placating Israel that is making the war ongoing. Quite the opposite, they shouldn't be doing that for Israel but for themselves, to show the world AND their own people that they are not interested in war anymore.

And now, you are right, they cannot build shelters. But before the blockade was up? What then? They spent every last penny on weapons and bombs and terrorist camps. So yes, trust me, they could have been much better off if the corrupted scum that is their government had been honest and given that money to the people and not to their organizations.

I fotgot to mention that shooting rockets everyday with no warning is oh so different than saying: you shoot one more time and I -will- shoot back with all I've got.

The fact that they didn't care or listen leaves something to wonder about.

we gave Israel many times that in just one year. Not to meantion the military aid and weapons.

The rest of the world knows that Israel wouldnt be the bullies of the middle east without America pointing our weapons at all.

Ok, but we also know hamas bullies it's own people, not to mention that the group is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the creation of a Palestinian Islamic state. What is Israel suppose to do?

maybe stop taking and taking and taking. That could be a start.

Hig time to get involved and unmask Israel and AIPAC for what it has done and how much money the American yaxpayer has given--this should be returned to the USA and the alliance with Israel ended.

Let israel fight it's own wars!

Go back to their original borders and live in peace! In today's world no one is going to allow one country to attack and destroy another. All this lay down your weapons and there would be no Israel crap is nonsense. Israel is expansionist and wants to grow even it it means taking from others illegally...mighty weapons help their cause.

Mighty weapons supplied by American tax payers. The rest of the world is getting sick of the playground bully Israel being armed by Americans.

Guess they are kicking themselves for Arafat walking away form that deal that would have done just that/original borders/ Olmert offered the same deal and the Palestinians would not take that one either. How many times do they get to turn it down and insist that it keeps getting offered again???

Probably not. The deal that was made then was extremely crappy. Israel didn't and still does not want to let go of the lands it is occupying.

What a great deal, not! Here's a quote (followed by the link) from a pro-Israeli site about this great peace deal.

Former prime minister Ehud Olmert said Sunday that during his tenure he offered Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas an unprecedented peace offer, based on a return to the 1967 borders and a fair demographic land arrangement which would see heavily Jewish areas in the West Bank remain under Israeli control.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/olmert-abbas-never-responded-to-my-peace-offer-1.263328

The condratdiction is that the 1967 borders did not include Israeli settlements, since there were none. Here's a map of the Israeli settlements in the west bank (any shade, light or dark, of purple is Israeli):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Westbankjan06.jpg

And that's only the West Bank, Israel also has settlements in the Golan Heights (Syria).

Although I disagree with certain posters that spew half-truths (using words as invaded, control, seized Palestinian land) one thing we all need to remember is that Israel wasn't the one that started 3 wars. They were the defenders that got the upper hand in battle and pushed the enemy out of these lands. Yes, the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan Heights are not Israeli territory and should be returned to Palestine and Syria after both have signed peace accords and recognize Israel's right to exist.

The US needs to force Israel's hand in the Palestinian Statehood issue by removing financial and military aid until a Palestinian state exists. This Palestinian Statehood issue has gone on for too long (decades).

Julie, I completely agree. Israel should, indeed, hand over all lands. But it cannot do it until it knows it will be safe. Can anyone here, pro israeli or pro palestinian dare to exclaim that Israel would be safe with Iran and Hammas calling for its demise and destruction?

Julie-401527

Some of your comment I agree with, some of it I don't... But this part...

The US needs to force Israel's hand in the Palestinian Statehood issue by removing financial and military aid until a Palestinian state exists. This Palestinian Statehood issue has gone on for too long (decades).

I definitely 100% agree with.

missrighteous, can anyone believe all they want is peace when they are building settlements on these lands?

They aren't just occupying them to make themselves safe. They are setting up permanent homes!

They do one thing and say another and then cry foul. They are instigating this mess as much as anyone else. They do not deserve to be supported when they continue to provoke this sh#t.

My solution/opinion would be an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank right now. This would include the relocation [at Israel's expense] of all Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Deal with Gaza and Hamas later. With an independent Palestinian state, this would put pressure on Hamas and the people of Gaza might finally see Hamas as an obstacle to Independence (being part of the new Palestinian state in the West Bank).

Eris, you must understand that Israel (the government and MOST its ppl) does not want these settlements. Israel is actively jailing its own citizens for trying to settle in those areas. And you must understand that in every country you have idiots and nut jobs and religious activists who think they know everything.

Israel does want peace, Israel doesn't need these areas. Israel is offering money to the settlers who have to give up their homes and move somewhere else. It's not an easy process, and the last thing Israel wants is a civil war. So, the issue is very delicate and is handled with care. But if you look it up, you will see that Israel is continuously trying to stop the settlers. They are only a burden.

missrighteous I understand perfectly that there are two different parts of the Israeli government. Some are pushing for more land and some want to pull back. But since the settlements continue to be built then I think it is safe to say which party is at the helm at this time.

It wasn't that long ago that they announced building more settlements WHILE Joe Biden was over there.

If you don't want your freakin crappy ass land occupied then don't start a war with people who can kick your ass in 6 days or less! That's the bottom line and that's all I have to say about that!

If you don't want your freakin crappy ass land occupied then don't start a war with people who can kick your ass in 6 days or less!

There is a difference between occupation and moving in.

Once you pick a war with me and I win the war it is no longer yours, it is mine. Won fair and square! Don't go into a housing project and not expect to get your car stolen!

F them, Israel is surronded by countries that want to see their demise. The only reason there is still an Israel is becuase THEY won the war, if the other countries had won the world would have never heard of Israel again.

So if the UN decided to give Mexico the land you're living on, you'd just up and move no argument huh?

You're a generous person.

Eris: No, it would not be that easy. The Tejano's joined the Texan's in kicking Mexico's butt and got independance. It would happen again and the out come would be the same with one exception. Texas would do away with that worthless U.N. everyone seems to support.

I'm saying to put yourself in the same position these people found themselves in.

If the situation there were the situation here and Mexico was given land that U.S. citizens were living on. There would definitely be a war.

Only everyone would be siding with Mexico.

I somehow doubt anyone in the U.S. would take that laying down or find this situation "fair".

TexRat

Once you pick a war with me and I win the war it is no longer yours, it is mine. Won fair and square!

occupied territory cannot be annexed by an occupying power, according to the Geneva Convention,

The Six-Day War of June 5–10, 1967 (also known as the June War) was a war between Israel and the neighboring states of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. The Arab states of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria also contributed troops and arms. At the war's end, Israel had gained control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day.

They have given back a large part of the land already who does that when it is part of a War????

To all those that do not think the deal brokered by Pres Clinton and presented to Arafat was not enough might want to re read the terms. It was a go for all parties including the Arabs who have so much say in what gets done and Arafat still walked.

I am sorry but IMO until the Palestinians come to some agreement amongst themselves i see no reason to even keep up the pretense of talks. Even if they come to an agreement there is still Gaza and Hamas who do not even participate in the talks.

Or Israel should seal their borders/give the Gazans enough time to make arrangements for water and electric and currency and let the International Community step in and assist them. They can receive supplies and medical through the Egypt crossing.

We occupied Iraq. Have we built any settlements in it? Afghanistan?

No one builds on occupied land unless they are just trying to start problems.

That ought to buy a lot of Weapons for Hamas to use against Israel... It is for sure the Palestine will never see the money!!! They don't even get the food and Medical Supplies sent to them... Hamas keeps that too!!!

Carla, you are absolutely correct about the wars. But, now, you need to point-out that the Palestineans were not involved with any of those wars- they were unarmed refugees in every one of them while the other Arab neighbors invaded. In fact, the other Arabs were'nt even doing it to help Palestineans; just to try to eliminate Israel.

It was then, that Arial Sharon was a tank commander in the army. He lined up his american tanks and pushed helpless refugees away from their lands and right to the edge of the sea. He was, in fact, a proponent of the "final solution" at the time, to finish the job (No other man was ever quite as hated as he was, by the Palestineans, but they made him a leader, anyways). Finally, they just built a fence and left them there, looking at the homes they had lived in for 2,000 years, while the Israelis moved in.

Carla, the MOST IMPORTANT land that SHOULD have been given back and NEVER WAS, was the land that Israel STOLE from people who never lifted a finger against them.

How many times does Israel have to do what everyone wants to get PEACE in their Country are the others to say make PEACE first then talk about the other part???

I agree with you Natalie, I hate it when innocent people that would love to have peace suffer, too.

first of all get the facts instead of the propaganda .... thousands of rockets don't fall inside Israel but Israel does bomb the crap out of Gaza regularly.

Hamas only fights those Israelis who are occupying Palestinian lands ... Hamas doesn't fight Israelis who stay inside Israeli lands.

where are the photos of the destruction and bodies of those Israelis you claim that thousands of rockets are falling on ... get this, the zionists are making these claims for one purpose ... to get you to feel sorry for these people and to allow them to continue to massacre the Palestinians who are bottled up like fish in a barrel. It's the Gazans who are suffering ... not the people in Israel.

grunt obama couldn't even brake an egg if he tryed.

Ralph, don't go telling ppl to look up facts if you don't even know them. How can you deny thousands of rockets being launched at Israel if even Hammas admits to it? How can you support Hammas by saying they only bomb the settlements when they clearly and publicly state that they don't want the existance of an Israeli state? How can you even be defending a terrorist organization? Defending Palestinians is one thing, but defending Hammas? You must be as extremist as they are.

missrighteous needes to stop believing all of the propaganda and listen to my words again.

Hamas wants all of its lands back ... Israel occupies Palestinians lands and is allowing settlers to continue to build in Palestianisn lands. It is not a crime to resist criminals even if they call themselves Jewish settlers.

Look up the news, Israel is arresting its own ppl, its own citizens, anyone who tries to stay in the settlements. Go, READ! I am completely against jewish settlers, they are ruining the peace process, but I would prefer them 10,000000 times over terrorists and bombs.

Ralph Osbon...

You do a disservice to the Palestinians when you defend Hamas.

wayne-1776203

Can anyone show me on a map of any century a palestinian country ???. I don't think so

Firstly the fact that this document even exists with the word PALESTINE in it should be proof enough, being that it was a document recognized by the world at the time...

The British Mandate for Palestine, also known as the Palestine Mandate and the British Mandate of Palestine, was a legal instrument for the administration of Palestine, the draft of which was formally confirmed by the League of Nations on 24 July 1922 and which came into effect on 26 September 1923... The mandate formalised British rule in Palestine from 1923–1948. With the League of Nations' consent on 16 September 1922, the UK divided the Mandate territory into two administrative areas, Palestine, under direct British rule, and autonomous Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from Hijaz, ... The preamble of the mandate declared:

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.^[3

Just to repeat the important part of all that....

the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine

But if you really insist that you need a map with the word palestine on it, they are out there, you just have to look because they need to be pretty old... I found this one after a 2 or 3 minute search... there are better examples out there I'm sure.... but take a look...

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/photolib/maps/Map%20of%20Tribal%20Territories%20of%20Ancient%20Palestine%201922.jpg

Sure, there's a bunch of maps of Palestine since it was the Romans that coin the term Palestine. It represented an area in the middle east. An area base on land mass not religion. Try Googling "Maps Palestine" and pick a link from the long list.

Now if you're refering to a modern state of Palestine, how about the UN map (and resolution) that created modern day Israel?

http://www.mideastweb.org/unpartition.htm

and here's the same map from the Israeli government web site:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/UN%20General%20Assembly%20Resolution%20181

1 rocket is one too many!

wayne-1776203 wants to see the name Palestine in some old map or doccument.

Look here wayne ... Herodotus traveled this land 500 years before christ and recorded what he saw or heard about. Palestine-syria was the 5th province of ancient Persia (modern-day Iran).

book III (90-91)

http://books.google.com/books?id=bR0MAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=inauthor:%22Herodotus%22&lr=#v=onepage&q&f=false

Like that Muslin care about them!!! Look how the Rich care about the Poor and Middle Class in the United States...

Ralph Olsin... That would mean that Israel would have to leave the Middle East... I bet if that happen there still wouldn't be PEACE there... They were killing each other before they took on Israel!!!

"seizing" - I'm pretty there was an election, one nearly insisted upon by our government.

Newfgoof..I had not heard all this about keeping the blockade in place from Abbas..can you cite it!

Reagan: the best I can find it was reported in a Israeli News Paper called Ha'aretz.

According to European diplomatic sources quoted in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, Mr Abbas said the blockade should remain in place to avoid bolstering Hamas, which has ruled the coastal strip since seizing it from the PA three years ago.

Hamas doesn't want PEACE in the regent!!! Because they might lose the control there...

Israel isn't in Palestine... They are in Israel!!! If you want that you have to get rid of Hamas...

Israel says it will ease Gaza blockade; NOT!

Israel and insanity go hand in hand.

I guess you would have to ask France since they are the ones that cut the feed.

Are they not allowed to halt something that they do not feel they want to go out over their company's airwaves. I am sure another company can be found that would want t o send out such stellar programming to children a stated below

The Hamas station — best known for its children's programs glorifying violence against Israel — is the centerpiece of a growing media operation of Gaza's Islamic militant Hamas rulers. Losing the satellite provider will hamper the group's attempts to spread its message and raise funds abroad.

One of its most criticized programs, Tomorrow's Pioneers, once featured a high-pitched Mickey Mouse rip-off called "Farfour" who encouraged children to fight against the occupiers of Muslim countries, while taking calls from kids who were praised for singing about fighting Israel.

After a wave of criticism, the station killed off Farfour with mock-Israeli soldiers beating him to death. But it has not toned down the message of its children's programs.

Alvi: France and Europe are not America. You do not have the unlimited right to freedom of speech in most of Europe that you have in the U.S. In Europe they have "Hate Speech Laws". Cross some undefined line and you could find yourself in jail. The government can ban any speech it finds offensive or could possibly incite one group or another to riot or do physical harm to others.

The sad part is there are many here in America that want us to have the same type of laws.

You should thank your lucky stars that at this point America is not that stupid.

One of its most criticized programs, Tomorrow's Pioneers, once featured a high-pitched Mickey Mouse rip-off called "Farfour" who encouraged children to fight against the occupiers of Muslim countries, while taking calls from kids who were praised for singing about fighting Israel.

To be honest, if you put yourself in their shows, I really dont see anything wrong with them

They see Israelis as the occupiers of their countries. Indeed they are. Check out how the map changed from 1948 to date, as Israel expanded its settlements. If they are encouraging their children to pick up arms against the occupiers, its not a matter of shunning them aside but a matter that should jolt this world up into doing something practical for the sake of Palestinian and Israeli kids who are growing up in such an unhealthy atmosphere.

Alvi: France and Europe are not America. You do not have the unlimited right to freedom of speech in most of Europe that you have in the U.S. In Europe they have "Hate Speech Laws".

They really didnt find depictions Moslem's Prophet as "hate speech", even when it incited hatred from Muslim population all over the world.

In Europe they have "Hate Speech Laws". Cross some undefined line and you could find yourself in jail.

Well yes, but then honestly I dont find them them any different than Iran's clerics. Bend the laws to suit you, they do it, and Europeans do it. They are both as bad then.

The government can ban any speech it finds offensive or could possibly incite one group or another to riot or do physical harm to others.

Not sure where you got that last part from, inciting one group to riot against the other. But that might be the case indeed.

Alvi: The government can ban any speech it finds offensive or could possibly incite one group or another to riot or do physical harm to others.

Not sure where you got that last part from, inciting one group to riot against the other. But that might be the case indeed.

Hate speech laws in France
France prohibits by its penal code and by its press laws public and private communication which is defamatory or insulting, or which incites discrimination, hatred, or violence against a person or a group of persons on account of place of origin, ethnicity or lack thereof, nationality, race, specific religion, sex, sexual orientation, or handicap. The law prohibits declarations that justify or deny crimes against humanity, for example, the Holocaust

In the United Kingdom, several statutes protect several categories of persons from hate speech. The statutes forbid communication which is hateful, threatening, abusive, or insulting and which targets a person on account of skin colour, race, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.

Alvi, those are just two examples of European hate speech laws. As you can imagine if we had those laws in America none of us would be able to post here. Many Americans do not appreciate the fact that they have the right to freedom of expression. They want these type of laws imposed here not realizing that in silencing others they would only be bringing their right to speech silenced as well.

Most civilized countries have such hate laws, Canada included. Funny thing, I don't feel muzzled. I never had any intention to cause by my words for any person or group to be hated or harmed in any way. Leave that to the Americans.

Look at Comedy Central who recently changed some of their programming

This is a channel that mocks Jesus openly and yet buckled under pressure from another religious faction.

I feel if you are going to mock one religion mock them all or stop mocking religion period.

Buzz of the Orient: Are you infering that the U.S. is not a civilized country? Of course your countries hate speech laws do have exemptions that allow for some degree of discord does it not?

Buzz: went and looked up your hate speech laws and yes it does have exceptions that practically negate any teeth in the law itself.

In Canada, advocating genocide or inciting hatred^[9] against any 'identifiable group' is an indictable offence under the Criminal Code of Canada with maximum terms of two to fourteen years. An 'identifiable group' is defined as 'any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.' It makes exceptions for cases of statements of truth, and subjects of public debate and religious doctrine. The landmark judicial decision on the constitutionality of this law was R. v. Keegstra (1990).

So, if you can cloak it in the guise of public debate or it is your religious doctrine or if you can prove it to be truth then the law cannot apply.

Alvi, those are just two examples of European hate speech laws.

France prohibits by its penal code and by its press laws public and private communication which isdefamatory or insulting, or which incites discrimination, hatred, or violence against a person or a group of persons on account of place of origin, ethnicity or lack thereof, nationality, race, specific religion, sex, sexual orientation, or handicap. The law prohibits declarations that justify or deny crimes against humanity, for example, the Holocaust

Morris, they dont even follow their laws. As I mentioned earlier, depiction of the Muslim's prophet has become a sport in Europe. Has any court taken any action?

Now tomorrow some maniac would lose it, go in some public place and blow himself up as a protest. To be honest, I would blame the government, not the bomber, for provoking such an attack.

And thats precisely whats wrong with the US too. It bombed half of northern Pakistan trying to kill Bin Laden. Ended up killing hundreds of civilians.

And this Faisal Shahzad guy in the US finally lost it and did something extremely stupid. Had the bomb gone off, I would have blamed Shahzad. But even more I would have blamed the retards who run the government these days.

Carla-852935

One of its most criticized programs, Tomorrow's Pioneers, once featured a high-pitched Mickey Mouse rip-off called "Farfour" who encouraged children to fight against the occupiers of Muslim countries, while taking calls from kids who were praised for singing about fighting Israel.

After a wave of criticism, the station killed off Farfour with mock-Israeli soldiers beating him to death.

That would be pretty funny if it wasn't so twisted and wrong...

Alvi

To be honest, if you put yourself in their shows, I really dont see anything wrong with them

They see Israelis as the occupiers of their countries. Indeed they are. Check out how the map changed from 1948 to date, as Israel expanded its settlements. If they are encouraging their children to pick up arms against the occupiers, its not a matter of shunning them aside but a matter that should jolt this world up into doing something practical for the sake of Palestinian and Israeli kids who are growing up in such an unhealthy atmosphere

It is brainwashing little children to want to go get themselves killed in a fight they couldn't possibly understand the complexities of... If you don't see whats wrong with that, then you need to re-examine your moral compass...

It is brainwashing little children to want to go get themselves killed in a fight they couldn't possibly understand the complexities of... If you don't see whats wrong with that, then you need to re-examine your moral compass...

Even if I agree with you, would banning the program in Europe make it any better for the Palestinian kids?

Alvi

Even if I agree with you, would banning the program in Europe make it any better for the Palestinian kids?

Come on Alvi... this was YOUR quote... YOU put this up first... read it again....

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — A France-based satellite provider is halting broadcasts of the Hamas TV channel to Europe and parts of the Arab world because of concerns that it spreads incitement, a station official said Tuesday.

The decision will deprive Gaza-based al-Aqsa TV of most of its viewers, said the channel's head, Hazem Sharawy.

Get it...?

..."halting broadcasts of the Hamas TV channel to Europe and parts of the Arab world"...

..."The decision will deprive Gaza-based al-Aqsa TV of most of its viewers"...

V, how it would help Palestinians kids who are at the mercy of Hamas is still beyond my comprehension. They dont get to see their cartoons, big deal. They get to see live men fighting with rifles each day, thats a perfect atmosphere to grow in isn't it?

Banning the program in Europe would just deprive the non Arab world of Hamas's side of the story. Ban that cartoon if its such a big deal, allow the rest. You need to have a balance of opinion to resolve such a situation.

Now what we will get is one side of the media controlled by Israel and the Zionists (like NV itself for instance), while absolutely no voice from "there" side. Perfect!

Newfgoof: And Hamas is holding the people of Gaza with threats of death if they dont like their rule. Hamas couldnt care less about the Palestinian people.

sounds like the tea party

Israel- Create the Palestinean State, like you promised, or you will regret it

Israel- Create the Palestinean State

If they do that the entire focus on "extremist Islam" (all Islam really) will evaporate--slowly, into just another religion. The fervor will die down, and then there will be no reason to send Israel money.

Yes. It would affect American relatiions throughout the Middle East

If they do that the entire focus on "extremist Islam" (all Islam really) will evaporate--slowly, into just another religion. The fervor will die down, and then there will be no reason to send Israel money.

There will be no reason to stay in Afghanistan and Iraq too then. You need a cause to fight for. To gain from. "extremist Islam (all Islam really)" provides just that. For the time being anyway.

what I said came out kind of wrong. I wasn't saying that Islam as a religion would evaporate, I just meant all the ho rah about it would calm down. Wouldn't that be nice if it could go back to just being another one of the three ME religions and everyone could just go their own way, as you said, nothing to fight about.

Yes, extremism and cruelty foster extremists and terrorists. In our civilized Western World when someone commits a crime we take them into psychological testing to find out the causes of their action and why they did it; not only how they did it, so we can fix the problem and its source so it will not happen again. It is not enough to call some Palestinians or Arabs or Muslims terrorists and treat them as such, and stop there and then, waiting for more extremists and terrorists to hit us back again, and we hit them back and inflict more atrocities on their families and so on for eternity. I think it is time not to ignore the causes that made them act the way they had acted and find out if they were treated fairly in the first place.

that is the problem you encounter when you steal someone else's land and use the Bible as a deed

I was going to comment on how ridiculous your statements were and how you have closed minds and eyes as to what is going on in the middle east, but decide not to. It is not worth the time and effort when the blind are leading the dead.

kelldon, you assume that I'm anti-Israel. That couldn't be further from the truth. What I believe was that it was a mistake to create a state based upon Europes and the USA's failure and guilt. However, the clock cannot be turned back. Israel should be supported to exist, however, they need to obey the UN and get out of the Palestinian territories 100% and that means getting rid of all the illegal building they have done.

Moreover, I also believe that Jeruselum should become an international city not belonging to anyone. Even as a practicing Christian, I wish we could just bulldoze the whole freaking city to the ground and maybe even hollow it out until it was nothing more than a huge hole in the ground. The city has been nothing but a blight on humanity for over 2000 years. But I realize how unrealistic that sounds.

Once Israel gets back into its own borders, it should have the full backing of every western country and it should be agreed upon that an attack on Israel is an attack on us - but ONLY if it stays within its borders.

dif- I would agree that all nations should stay with in their borders as well but that never seems to keep any piece in the Mid east. Did not Israel vacate the Gaza strip for the Palestinians and in return they get thousand or rockets launched into their area every year? Are not all the Arab nations working hard to eliminate Israel as a country and race? And do really have any respect for the UN, it leaders and it resolutions? We are constantly harping on Israel to change and make concessions via UN resolutions but when it comes to other countries there is no enforcement or action. Take Iraq for example. How many UN resolutions did they ignore and the UN did nothing. The only vestige of intelligence and civilization in the whole middle east seems to be Israel. The rest of the region still acts like they are in the stone age. We should continue to back Isreal and its effort to keep their people intact and safe.

differnet said:

Once Israel gets back into its own borders, it should have the full backing of every western country and it should be agreed upon that an attack on Israel is an attack on us - but ONLY if it stays within its borders.

Could you please run for president?

kelldon, perhaps you missed that part where I said, "...an attack on Isreal [would be] an attack on us. And if Hamas wants to lob rockets into Israel, then we would do what we would do if someone lobbed rockets into the United States. Of course, we would have to not get distracted into another war that didn't need to be fought before we had completed teh mission.

With Israel having control of Jerusalem... The world has a better chance of going there without worrying being killed!!!

LOL LOL LOL You have quite a sense of humor don!

Israel even has it's own U.S.senator, Joe Lieberman, who holds israel closer to his heart than America

Oh, you are so right, we should all believe what the arab leaders say. You know, Hammas, Iran... Yes, they are so much more trust worthy.

He didn't say that we should trust Arab leaders. He said that we shouldn't trust Israeli leaders.

You present a false dichotomy. That is, you suggest that we have an "either/or" situation, when we are actually free to form our own opinions without having to choose one of two sides.

You are completely free to make your own opinion, but no one is talking about opinions here. We are talking about bringing peace to a region. And for that, Daniel, you definitely need to trust at least one of the sides. So yes, either / or

In my eyes to blame Jews for the harmful actions of Israel, is equally as wrong as blaming Palestinians for the harmful actions of Hamas... There will always be innocents among the guilty, and blanketed, broad stroked condemnations bring no true justice to anyone, and only serve to cloud your own judgement.

Something like it, but not even. To blame all Jews for Israel's government's actions is like blaming all muslims for Hammas' actions (which is the Palestinian government). It just makes no sense.

Everyone but you Racist!!! Your the same ones that say the President isn't a American...

lmk02

Everyone but you Racist!!! Your the same ones that say the President isn't a American...

Though I already know that I should not even respond to you, because you are a newsvine troll that doesn not debate, and can not be reasoned with, but simply spouts porpaganda and hate filled rants... I will still, against my better judgment, try to illuminate your darkened skull....

#1 - Judaism is not a race... it is a religion... One can not be a racist by speaking out against a Jewish person.

#2 - And in fact the term Anti-semite is not accurate either, because the word SEMITE refers to Arabs as well as Jews (But only those Jews that are descended from the ORIGINAL Israelis, not the descendants of European and Russian converts, which seems to be the majority these days)

#3 - Points #1, and #2 don't even matter in this case, because, DAN MAHER portland oregon said NOTHING that was either "racist", or "anti-semitic" (in either the correct, or incorrect usage of that word) in any way, shape, or form... Speaking out against Israeli policy, is NOT condemnation of Jews as a group... in the same way that speaking out against Italian policy would not be a condemnation of Catholics, or even of Italians in general... IT IS SPEAKING ABOUT THE LEADERSHIP AND ITS ACTIONS... NOT THE PEOPLE.

Yah, I would also have voted for Hammas if they held a gun to my head. Gotta love democracy.

missrighteous

Yah, I would also have voted for Hammas if they held a gun to my head. Gotta love democracy.

Exactly... or bribes... I remember hearing about Hamas handing out cash and other things to the people on line to vote...

Of course. Think about it, you have nothing, no money, no food... Then comes this Hammas organization, offers all these benefits to you (without telling you that they are giving you what is actually yours...) They make it seems like every good thing is thanks to them, and every bad thing is thanks to others... Of course you would follow them. I don't blame the people, I blame Hammas.

How would you vote if you had a gun to your head??? They won just like Bush Jr won His two elections!!!

lmk02

Sigh.. will you ever stop using 3 exclamtion marks to end all your silly sentences (!!!)

!!!

!!!

bart martin says "..all shipments must be made under international inspections .."

We should have insisted upon this policy before Israel gained nuclear weapons ... then we might survive these people.

Honestly people, do you feel more secure knowing that Israel has nukes than if they didn't have them?

LOL

I feel more secure knowing Israel has nukes then I would if Iran had them, seeing how they hate Israel as well as the west.

Israel has made concessions in the past, only to be punished later. The Arabs will not be happy until the state of Israel is destroyed. There is no compromising here.

The Arabs will not be happy until the state of Israel is destroyed.

There are a lot of people commenting on Newsvine today who feel the same way. History has established what happens to all of them.

Without doubt, the Gaza flotilla was going for the Exodus scenario: a highly publicized attempt to break the blockade of Palestine. They even spent extra time wandering around the Mediterranean sea to garner all available attention. There was next to no cargo on board: these were passenger ships, what cargo! And even the arrogant Israeli intelligence could not have missed the preparations being made for a violent encounter among the ship’s 650 passengers. They were playing out the famous Jewish-British confrontation. Recognizing the similarity, British diplomats were among the first to condemn Israel. According to the scenario, there would have to be deaths. See http://samsonblinded.org/blog/

What, if not anti-Semitism, accounts for hundreds of times more demonstrations in support of Palestinian than Kurdish statehood? When was the last time any international body condemned Russia for annexing the Kuril Islands from Japan after World War II? But the Russian Foreign Ministry has the audacity to call the Golan Heights “occupied.” Forget Russia. What depths of hypocrisy does it take for the American anti-Semites to speak of the “occupied Palestinian territories” while living in the Occupied United States of America? Give your country back to the Native Indians before lecturing Israel.

Not only that they changed course so that the entry would happen in daylight which is why I believe the last ship acted so violently. why else would 5 other ships allow the Shayetet to board with no problem

The Israeli's have finally negotiated with the UN to deliver the 75 trucks of goods that have been sitting for 2 weeks/Yes Hamas truly cares for it's people

I can't wait till there is no more israel....the United States will have alot less problems...

Why don't you hold your breath?