Chances aren't much better on terra firma when you have a full blown blowout. So a 60 to 70 percent change is very good.

If the human race won't learn from history, well, it will be history:

On the Psychodynamics of Organizational Disaster: The Case of the Space Shuttle Challenger

I think it was Senator John Glenn said "Somehow the perspective at NASA went from 'can do' to 'can't fail.'"

Eris and tigimania America has only two friends worldwide and you're crapping on one of them;smart,very F.....G smart.

CAN DO takes longer than CAN'T FAIL. CAN DO requires knowledge, regulation; CANT FAIL means no regulation, let the chips fall where they may. CAN DO protects people and the environment. CAN'T FAIL protects Big Business and the ones who have "reached The Top." CAN DO is respectful of our planet and fellow man. CAN'T FAIL means that everything will fall apart when it does fail, but those on "top" can buy there way out of anything and resume control - like leaving caps on how much they must pay for damage and leaving the rest to we who pay taxes - in the USA!

CAN'T FAIL is what SHELL OIL is saying about drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge next month! WHO is going to speak up to stop that one? ...or will we just keep doing this because we are #1USA in pollution now!

When are we going speak up? WHEN? What will it take?... what do we care? Then answer a child's question(!!!):

"Are they going to leave anything for us?"

Jerry,

That may look that way, but the reality is that them siphoning off the oil, means less potential for any capping method failing. To plug it, they have to overcome high pressure, siphon off oil reduces the constant pressure giving any plugging method easier manuevering, and less resistance to over come to insert and stay in place. There appears to be concern that the incompletely sealed cassion might not hold the pressure being exherted by the oil. If that cassion fails, there is no way to contain the oil which will find any weak spot in the sea floor and break through.

Surface and shallow has a 80% success rate.

BTW. BP did not necessarily order the use of the sea water in place of heavier fluids. This also could have been ordered by Horizon who was the operator of the rig OR Halliburton who was contracted to do the concrete sealing. Wait for the investigation to be complete. I'd focus on all parties. Finger pointing often means someone hiding what they may have done wrong.

Knowing what I do about concrete curing, sea water would have permitted the curing off-gassing to escape easier. Regardless, no uncontrolled material should have been used - sea water - can contain any number of unknow elements at any time.

In this era, it is probably best to find some other material to seal these cassions expecially for deep water.

wabo40

Eris and tigimania America has only two friends worldwide and you're crapping on one of them;smart,very F.....G smart.

BP is no friend, friend.

Now if you mean the UK.. this isn't their fault. Nice of you to try and make that leap but in my case you land flat. I do not share tigirmania's sentiments.

THANK YOU for the info, DB.
When/if a cap is accomplished, what's to keep the pressure from blowing it out after it is capped?
Will the concrete break down?
Will it need to be continuously monitored?
Is there a chance that BP will insist that the relief well needs to stay there forever and therefore, BP should extract the oil?
(If so, the USA needs to OWN that well!)

dorrit, they'll put another BOP on top of the malfunctioning one.

I do have to still admit I get a kick out of the feigned indignation about the cozy relationships between oil industry and Washington. How is this any different than the practice of what appears to be staffing with Goldman Sachs employees in financial areas of government? It just points to a total breakdown of Washington being there to truly represent the public.

DB Akron, all indications are that BP's company man did indeed instruct Halliburton's mud engineer to remove the mud and replace it with seawater. I'll reserve judgment until such time as it becomes public what the reason for that request was. This should be readily available as MMS endorsed the action. I have my own suspicions which don't reflect well on BP, but I am not willing to speculate yet.

Thanks, Voter.

Is the BOP permanent?

As the effects of Deregulation reigns down on us one after the other, it seems that the pure arrogance of some politicians keeps them from connecting to the necessary humility it takes to conduct themselves ethically. Therefore, more of the same. I do hope we Americans vote for some mature, aware, and educated people rather than greedy, smooth-talking "nice" people who take advantage of the anger and hate they can stir up.

Lets hope they can stop the gusher soon but in any case the damage has already begun. This mess may prove to be one of the worst in our memory in terms of the damage it is doing and going to do to the gulf region.

Pretty sad when we allow this kind of harvesting of oil and have no fixes known to stop it when something happens.

norcal, all; go to the website NOLA.COM, it is a great video done yesterday by Phillip Cousteau, and other divers, it shows the disaster below the surface, that is where the problem is even greater; Cousteau said this is the greatest ecologica ldisaster of unheard of proportions.

FYI: The U.K. DOES NOT OWN B.P

Percentage of shares in issue

Range of holdings Institutions Individuals Total

By principal area:

UK 40%
US 39% (JP Morgan Chase Bank, holding 27.74%)
Rest of Europe 10%
Rest of World 7%
Miscellaneousc 4%P

B.P. is a publicity traded Co. owned by it's stock holders.

The real Problem is... a failed energy program!!!!

Actually, DB Akron, the finger pointing is pretty pointless. When I took Leadership classes, the first rule I learned was, "EVERYTHING is your fault."

If it's BP's well, but they lease the rig from Horizon and maintenance is farmed out to Haliburton, well, none of that matters. It's BP's well. They are responsible, period. They leased the rig, which means they have responsibility over it as it works under BP's banner. Same with Haliburton. BP is the leader here hence EVERYTHING is their fault. They should've had more oversight. They should have been aware of every decision and action being done on that rig. Ignorance here is NOT an excuse.

Ultimately, from this point on, Haliburton should never be hired by any rig to perform maintenance. No oil company should lease rigs from Horizon. And BP should to culpable for doing both of those actions. If BP has any leadership worth their salt, they should own up. Bottom line: BP failed in keeping a tight leash on those they hired. Hence, those hired should be fired and BP assumes all blame. It's all pretty cut and dry to me.

The real Problem is... a failed energy program!!!!

very true, combined with the conflict of interest for the states surrounding the gulf where the oil industry represents close to about $125 billion in annual economic revenue.

Warhammer , you left Cameron (manufacturer of the failed/malfunctioning BOP) out of the equation.

Warhammer Three, time expired before I could complete my editing of my post above, but while I agree with your summation of BP owning this disaster, I can tell you from firsthand experience working for a subcontractor of them, that they do enforce pretty strict reins normally over workers/subs. However, sometimes their actions in this regard are totally off the wall. To give you an example, a short while ago at the Deadhorse, AK location I work at, BP decided to terminate a relationship with a contractor doing welding work after inspection showed sub-standard work. Yet, what did they do? They hired the very same welders back with their paychecks now coming from a different subcontractor. Did they magically believe the welders had acquired some missing skills simply by changing shirt logos?

dorrit

Thanks, Voter.

Is the BOP permanent?

If successful they would then later inject cement down the wellbore to permanently seal it.

Of course if this entire topkill doesn't work, they'll have to cut the pipe and try to use a containment dome again.

2hip4u - it would be great to see the source of those ownership statistics you cite. How about a real citation? I've heard others on Newsvine claim that controlling interest in BP is Kuwaiti. Your citation is more plausible; it would still be nice to know where it's from. We should consider boycotts of BP shareholders, as well as boycotts of BP itself.

Voter-in-LA

That is a typical big business management call, it redirects a failed inspection. It's how you meet deadlines.

11B2EB4:

http://www.bp.com/extendedsectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9010453&contentId=7019612

2hip4u, true and a sad action on a job that is already 18 months behind schedule.

I really hope this works. I am so freaking tired of seeing a leaking pipe kick our "Technologically Advanced" asses.

I like how the story makes out like its only the gulf residents getting annoyed, no I do believe mr. media man this entire nation is pissed off cause a foreign company is destroying our land and sea, and our leader has left it up to bullwinkle and rocky to fix it, hey rocky watch me pull nothing out of my hat....and presto..

and he was gutted to see the devastation! yeah b.s. you could see I don't swim here all over the stupid expression on his head, more like o'well its not in my backyard

This is important stage, because it represents the first time that BP chose to terminate or plug the darn thing instead of trying to save it. My question would be why are we trying to plug it at the end of the pipe instead of closer to the exit point from the earth? I am assuming that BP is still interested in re-tapping back into the pipe after the 2 relief wells are put into place.

MMS is too close to the oil companies... is that too obvious or is it just me? Like many other checks and balances, they are falling to corporate and human greed over the past 30+ years.

I will never buy from BP or Amoco again... They can kiss my a$$ goodbuy for good!!!!

So Dorrit

As the effects of Deregulation reigns down on us one after the other,

Exactly WHAT Deregulation has happened here.. I would bet the farm you cannot point to it, because there has been none. It is a case of A) our gvmnt officials not enforcing the current regulations and B) using Shelf drilling regulations, a mile under the ocean and C) Safety features not advancing with the technology of deep water drilling.

Everyone who spouts the liberal ITS Deregulation, cannot EVER point to what was deregulated.

what we're going to eventually find out is that the drilling crew, with their supervisors' approval was cutting corners to save time or money, ignoring safety considerations because it was too much trougle. just like the coal mine. it costs money to do things right, which cuts into the bottom line. managers are willing to risk other peoples' lives to bring their projects in under budget. this is why we need strong regulation by indpendent agencies. The GOP mantra of less regulation is just plain wrong. Don't vote for any candidate who does not endorse firm government regulation of all industries where there's a risk of catastrophic failure and death.

This will be another Exon Valdez incident. BP will do little as soon as it becomes clear that it's cutting into their profit margin. There's still oil along the Alaska coast line from the Valdez incident. I can't believe for a second that dumping clay on a well head that's a mile below the surface is going to do anything especially if the well is dumping oil at high pressures.

Lies Lies and more Lies. I don't believe one word that is being said.

Jeremy:

Your last sentence there makes you sound none too bright. Here it is: "Everyone who spouts the liberal ITS Deregulation, cannot EVER point to what was deregulated." Why is that liberal? It might be erroneous. It might display a lack of knowledge. I can think of some other modifiers, but liberal just doesn't work.

Noah Webster might be able to provide some help for you.

OK so what have we learned so far?

Someone damaged the Blow Out Preventer by pulling a lever that pushed a rod through the Blow Out preventers rubber seal.

Someone let the batteries on one side go dead.

Someone decided that because of the cost of drilling everyday into the deepest unknown should be speed up, not slowed down for caution.

Someone didn't think that the deepest unknown would have a tremendous amount of methane built up, and decided to rush poring final concrete.

Someone would not listen to their own safety engineers who said slow down.

Someone didn't bother to get legale permits, because they never had too.

Someone elese livley hood is now turned into oil soakeruper.

And the rest of us standing around wondering why someone has waited a full month to do, what should have been already practiced for, before the hole was ever drilled.

Saxon thank you for the nola.com link. I just checked it and they are in the middle of the process of trying to get the machinery in place to pump mud and cement into it to stop it right now. Lets hope it works.

In the past few days, the Democrats have tried to remove the cap on the amount of money oil drillers (BP) have to pay out because of their carelessness and three times in a row now it has been voted down. All three times removing the cap was voted down by the Republicans.

nwnative, you cannot retroactively enact legislation anyways. That would be like a state trying to up their required minimum auto insurance limits after a catastrophic car wreck. It's simply posturing by both sides of the fence. Anger should really be directed at the politicians in charge in 1990 when the OPA was enacted with the inane $75M limit after the Exxon Valdez caused several billion dollars worth of damage. The GOP is however completely missing the point that higher limits are required and needed. Ultimately we would all pay for it at the pump because the increased cost would be passed on but that would only speed up the process of forcing people to consider alternative forms of energy. What they should be pushing for in this instance is to penalize BP in a method that for example they cannot make a dime in profit out of sales in affected states until such time that the clean-up is complete. This would somewhat mirror an award made against them years ago where they were forced to sell gas cheaper than their competitors here in Louisiana because of alleged price-fixing.

Where are the supertankes that can seperate the oil from the water that have been used else where when this sort of catastrophy occurs?

Why aren't these tankers out in the Gulf doing this job right now preventing the oil from reaching shore?

Why aren't out leaders talking about this?

What if the 'top kill' does not work? What are they going to do to divert the oil from the shore/coast lines?

Even if the 'top kill' works what are they going to do about the millions of barrels of oil that is already in the Gulf and moving into the Gulf stream?

Why aren't these super tankers that clean the water of the oil not in place right now doing this and as a nother measure should the 'top kill' not work or there is a larger blow out causing even a larger gushing of oil into the Gulf?

Why is it when asked how much oil is gushing into the Gulf, BP and the polititians etc turn away from answering the question to give the impression that the amount of oil gushing into the Gulf is not important and that shutting down the oil gusher and clean up is more important?

How do you know how much dispersant to use if you do not know how much oil you are dealing with?

How do you know how to go about the clean up if you do not know how much gushing is going on?

How do you know how to go about the clean up if you do not know how much oil has already been spilled?

Does anyone know the longterm effect of the dispersants that is being used - the very one that was banned in Great Britain per the news media?

Shouldn't there be these super tankers ringing the oil gusher cleaning the oil from the water as we sit contemplating our navels?

Why is it when the Louisiana senator speaks I find it difficult to believe what she is stating?

Considering the report on the MMA etc that was released recently about the lack of safety inspections of these rigs (as it seems it was the rig folks rather than actual MMA inspections being done) why aren't all drilling stopped and alllllllll rigs, platforms, plants, refinaries etc put through a rigerous inspection by outside independent engineers/safety experts etc right now?

When will this country learn that cutting corners, influence peddling, lobbying at the expense of safety etc and other unethical behaviour needs to be stopped in this country, before we don't have a country/environment/jobs left?

Enough already..........

David Walker

Jeremy:

Your last sentence there makes you sound none too bright. Here it is: "Everyone who spouts the liberal ITS Deregulation, cannot EVER point to what was deregulated." Why is that liberal? It might be erroneous. It might display a lack of knowledge. I can think of some other modifiers, but liberal just doesn't work.

Noah Webster might be able to provide some help for you.

The crying about deregulation, or not enough regulation, have ALWAYS come from the liberal left. So that last sentence is fact, it does not show any lack of intelligence since a core belief from the Liberal Left is more Gvmnt more Gvmnt more Gvmnt.

Jeremy:

It's pretty clear you didn't go to the dictionary. I'll stick to Noah Webster for my definitions. You go right ahead and stick to Limbaugh and company.

True liberals - the real deal as defined by Webster - really don't like a whole hell of a lot of regulation. Never mind. You won't check it out.

This whole thing has nothing to do with Dems or GOP, it was a series of mistakes by the people who worked on the rig. Not paying attention to the blowout was one. But the big mistake was replacing the mud with seawater which let the gas go by and blow the thing up. But why did they do it? Because the executives push for constant production and puts peoples jobs on the line for not meeting it. So shortcuts are taken to meet this goal and accidents like this happen.

Jeremy: Cheney (an ex-Haliburton executive) appointed a special Energy Task Force to fight against MMS requiring sonic shut off valves. It reduced the regulatory functions of the MMS. The administration appointed ex-oil executives to MMS positions. The GW Bush/Cheney push started around 2003. The administration also drastically reduced the power, funding and personel to other regulatory agencies such as EPA.

Sounds an awful lot like de-regulation to me, thturd. There's also the precedent of waiving the EIS requirement. Seems like that's also a Cheney invention, but I'm not too happy with the Obama administration for allowing the practice to continue.

Sure would be good to see the records of those Cheney-energy industry meetings.

Matthew Simmons, an energy industry analyst, told msnbc that, based on the size of the leak at the blowout preventer and the extent of the huge plumes detected last week by scientists, he believes an even larger leak exists somewhere on the ocean floor that BP has not detected. "They're chasing a mouse and behind them is a tiger," he said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37353392/ns/gulf_oil_spill/

Say it isn't so...

Unlike so many others on Newsvine, I don't claim to be an expert, but now it looks lke mud and oil are being pumped out of the well insead of just oil. But what would I know? I do know, however, that if this were China, the CEO of British Petroleum, as well as others, would have been executed by now. He should be happy to be in America rather than China and many other countries in the world. The next time a Brit takes a nasty poke at us, as they are prone to do, they should think twice about it.

"We're going to bring every resource necessary to put a stop to this thing," he said.

In reality, it's BP that's bringing the resources, but if the "fix" works, I'm sure Obama will take the credit, when he gets back from his high-priority fundraisers.

Eris: I was wondering why British Petroleum executives stink so badly whenever I go anywhere near them. Mystery solved. What about our impressive federal government? Somebody needs to remind them that the ice cream cone goes in the mouth and not on the forehead. Either laugh or cry.

One can only hope for the best!

SkyTruth.org has been tracking the spill via satellite images, and they were the first reputable source I heard saying the spill was definitely bigger than 5000 barrels a day. This week they say 39 million gallons have been spilled, covering almost 30,000 square miles. Their image from Monday is here:

Satellite 5-24-10

Bad.

You bet they do,after all it's their own rears they have to smell all day long. These type of money greedy bastards have no regard for anyone or anything.The fact that they use and continue to use a dispersant also proves how deceptive they are, instead of letting it float to the top where it could be collected they choosen to try and hide it.Just think how impossible it will be to collect,here again it proves how low down those bastards truly are.I will never again purchase their product. And how about that lousy mere 25 mil they claimed to have already paid out, this is only 25 out of a 1000mil needed to make a billion. cheap dam crooked bastards I say,what they've done is destroved an ocean for god knows how many years,oil is not biodegradable and the ocean floor will be a waste land. I hope God punishes these so called humans.

Warhammer...just to set the record straight...when you were being trained as a "leader" did they ever say about being factual when leading??

1) Transocean owned the Horizon. Horizon was the rigs name, not the company.

2) Halliburton was never contracted to maintain the Horizon. That's not their business...any number of other sub cotractors have worked on components on the rig, from OEM's to non-OEM's.

It might seem cut and dried to you, but at least get your facts straight. That's what leaders do.

DB, the mud is being pumped down to create a hydrostatic head on top of the blowout fluid, oil. Once a balance or over balance is reached and the wells is not flowing, a cement plug will be forced down the wellbore and this should/will contain the flow of the oil if this the only or primary source of the flow. And only if there is no debris in the BOP stack or wellbore, which no one knows for certain. I've heard a number of stories about this, but no one can give a conclusive answer to the question about the well status. My guess is that there are far more problems in the bore than at the BOP.

Every indication is that the cement was cured, but it is not clear if it was a good cement job. Cementing casing strings and sealing the annulus between strings is and has always been an imperfect science. That's why there are hanger seals on the casing hangers in the wellheads that serve as back-ups to cement.

This gas probably came from the formation, breached the casing at a connector or through the pipe via channeled cement. The gas was not generated by curing of cement. Once the bubble got into the mud-sea water and got past the stack there was nothing that could be done.

There are a number of side issues to this problem that are not common knowledge that contributed to this accident. Once it's all done and dusted and published for all to see, a lot of you rocket scientist posting here will have a lot of crow to eat...

I'm just waiting for KanyeWest to come on during a fund raiser for Gulf residents and tell us that, Barack Obama hates black people and this is the reason for the seemingly slow containment.

In all seriousness, I hope that the topkill is effective in stopping the flow. Then we'll all forget about it and go on to the next topic of the day.

Not to worry, Obama to the rescue, as soon as he gets back from a Chicago Vacation! And by the way Tomb of The Unknown Soldier, we want be doing that thing this year either.

President Barack Obama said "there's no guarantees" the top kill will work. The president planned a trip to Louisiana on Friday.

"We're going to bring every resource necessary to put a stop to this thing," he said.

Where has this Joker been for 5 weeks? I guess once we reached 9 million gallons then it became time to do something. Even UBBER Liberal James Carvel is sick of Obama and his stonewalling administration.

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal and Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser are you still waiting for permits?

What has happened to the structure and concept of "States-Rights?" A war was fought over them.

Who ownes the property where the well is? Who is the tenant? I have never known a "landlord," to take any crap from a tenant.

Please work......please.

"Matthew Simmons, an energy industry analyst, told msnbc that, based on the size of the leak at the blowout preventer and the extent of the huge plumes detected last week by scientists, he believes an even larger leak exists somewhere on the ocean floor that BP has not detected. "They're chasing a mouse and behind them is a tiger," he said."

That's a really scary prospect. If that's true, it looks like Obama's Katrina.

Those of you who are blaoming the government ansd Obama should realize that the government has zero capability to deal with this type of disaster, zero. They have to depend on the oil companies who are the only ones with the technology and the experience to do anything (although nobody has any experience at 5000'). If you want to blame this administration, you should blame them for not taking care of the mess left by the previous administration(s) that allowed this to happen, but I guarantee you that if they tried the republicans would have blocked it, slowed it down or made it so weak as to be useless. And he had other disasters to deal with that were just as bad, such as health care and the financial situation. When you blame Obama for not doing something, you are just showing your ignorance, as there was nothing he could do.

Drilling a mile down in the ocean without having a proven method of stopping a potential disaster, (a frickin broken pipe!) is very similar to passing a 1500 page bill that noone's read, and declaring "we need to pass it to find out what's in it".

In other words, this administration has no room to spout off about the importance of contingency plans. They have many "uncapped gushers" and aren't even trying to "cap" them. Rather, they're purposely letting them spew!

And Ferro

Is Obama responsible for ANYTHING?

Yes, he was responsible for fixing the mess left by the previous administration and he didn't do as good a job as he should have. Perhaps because he and nobody else could believe just how screwed up everything was.

Yawn....... Why don't we just go back to the Harding Administration and blame in on The Teapot Dome Scandal?

"Let me be perfectly clear. I will take all the credit for this if the top kill plan works and blame the previous administration if it doesn't."

Anyway, looks like there is some good news on the oil well. Hopefully they can cement it and get on with the job of cleaning up.

YAY! Top kill killed! Who said killing things doesn't solve problems.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program....

Queue Palin... "Drill Baby Drill!!"

Where is Red Adair when we need him?

FerrosynthesisII, while I agree somewhat with you that the government has less ability or knowledge on how to deal with the actual blow-out, I do take exception to your statement that :

the government has zero capability to deal with this type of disaster, zero. They have to depend on the oil companies who are the only ones with the technology and the experience to do anything

You seem to be missing the point there is more to this leak than just oil spewing from a leak. There are 6,000,000+ gallons of crude along with who knows how much in the way of dispersants floating in the Gulf.

We have federal agencies like the EPA, NOAA, ACoE etc who are on hand, but truthfully they are doing ZILCH to ensure that BP is protecting shorelines or even attempting to at this point.

For about 5 weeks I have been somewhat in BP's corner as I still truly believe it is accidental, but early this morning I had occasion to accompany a Wildlife and Fisheries officer to our shorelines. Maybe I am dense and naive, but I had expected to find people doing something. Instead we saw empty beaches and crude oil lapping up into the wetlands. I realize they maybe cannot be everywhere, but it really seems like they are only to be found at locations where a Kodak moment exists to show someone is making an attempt. We found booms everywhere which were sodden and oil filled. I guess nobody from BP to the EPA to NOAA to whoever realizes you have to at some point remove the oil-filled boom and replace it? If you don,t eventually the oil simply leeches right back out again and continues to do damage. Eventually as the Wildlife and Fisheries officer started filming some of this, we were run off the public location by a BP employee.

So while I agree that the government and its agencies have less ability to do anything about the actual leak, they sure as heck have the ability and manpower to start dictating or organizing shoreline damage cleanup. BTW I don't think my state is blameless either. It would be beyond simply to use prisoners as the labor force.

This is amazing to watch how the media and politicians twist this and try and take advantage of a tough situation.

Does anyone believe BP is not doing everything they can here? If so step up and say how you'd do better... I'm sure BP would take you on to help.

It makes me sick to imagine the damage to the environment but to be honest it makes me sicker the way people try and take advantage of it to better their position in this world...

Obama is the first in line to do so BTW.

Yes, he was responsible for fixing the mess left by the previous administration and he didn't do as good a job as he should have. Perhaps because he and nobody else could believe just how screwed up everything was.

So where does Obamacare fit into the "previous administration's" screw ups?

Ten years from now, when this administration and all it's crooks are writing their $9.95 autobiographies, you'll be blaming Bush for Obamacare, Deep Horizon, Cap and Tax, and any other negative result of the Obama presidency.

SOMEDAY, SOMETIME, SOMEHOW, SOMEWHERE, Obama will HAVE to grow some balls and take responsibility for SOMETHING!

He's the President for Christ's sake!

I never heard of a great leader who would rather toss blame around like candy at an Easter parade, than take ANY responsibility for ANYTHING that occurs during their "reign".

He's a weak, inept, embarrassing excuse for a leader...with or without an oil spill.

Red Adair died a numer of years ago as well of one of his original partners with the original company he broke away from. The other partner is like 85 or 90, and has had input. Red's get it done guy Thompson, I believe is consulting on this one out of Florida. Hopefully some people will learn something from these two.

Those previously unknown plumes are why a using any explosives would have been pretty bad. The concern is that the cassion was weakened by this bubble somewhere well below the surface. Surely this would mean that the mix of concrete and fluids used to place it would be the real items of interest.

The one thing I have never experienced is plugging a well. What is described is pumping concrete into the pipe, not driving it. That means cure time and a certain amount of risk that the curing of the concrete would shrink just enough to come free. This is not the preferred method for plugging a well.

Proper plugging wells involves removing the inner casson liner and placing a plug in the hole at the top and bottom of each sand. Even though this plug may stop the oil spewing into the ocean, there is risk that other geological layers will be damaged at some point. The good news is that these wells are far away from water wells that would be compromised by leaks.

The current estimate of oil excaping is now up to 19,000 Barrels a day. This is because of the additional plumes discovered in the area after the mud was stuffed down the hole.

Keep your fingers and toes crossed for this to work. Any other methods are nearly "Hail Mary" passes.

After BP gets done screwing around and finally plugging this mess, which they could have done in a couple of days if they just had pulled their heads out of their wallets, it may be a good idea to use a "top kill" method on their management and root out the insanely stupid people who let this kind of disaster to foment in the first place, and then reacted like statues when the sh_t hit the fan.

If I was a stock holder I would be a little peeved at this juncture.

Now that BP has been successful in plugging the well blowout, we can look for Obama, who has been AWOL for the entire duration of the oil-spill crisis, to ride into town and proclaim that it was his brilliant guidance that finally resolved the issue. Go back to playing golf and basketball Barack, you're an impediment to the accomplishment of even the most menial of tasks. Greg Neubeck

I wouldn't blame the president for the health care bill, I will thank him. It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we could get with republicans blocking anything meaningful like single payer or public option.

As I say again, he must take responsibility for not celaning up the mess he was left with. To say he was not left with a total mess is closing your eyes to the truth.

To Voter

You do make a valid point about the containment of the spill. The gov't might have been able to do a bit more, I'm not sure. It seems they have been putting the resources there, but perhaps there is more in that effort they could be doing. They are not doing nothing and maybe that's all they can do, but you may have an issue there. We need to see some figures, which I don't quite know how to get. The question is...Are there any resources that the gov't has not used that might help? Having Obama show up is not a viable resource. In a way he should be applauded for not making useless visits to the site when there's work to be done. The question is did he get whatever resources we had in place in time. That I don't know.

I wouldn't blame the president for the health care bill, I will thank him. It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we could get with republicans blocking anything meaningful like single payer or public option.

Oh! So it WILL BE the republicans fault huh?

Nevermind the fact that the majority of the country was SCREAMING "NO" along with those republicans.

You guys are like a broken record!

Just like Obama maintains, EVERYTHING is SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT!!!!

I have absolutely "NO" respect for Obama or his wormy cohorts...which includes you. To me, a man unwilling to bear at least SOME of the blame when he's SUPPOSEDLY running the show, is no man at all. He's an arrogant coward.

This oil spill is but a glimpse into his overall ineptitude.

Ferro: truthfully I think he did mobilize resources pretty quickly and efficiently.

It seems more a problem that once here the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing. The EPA simply rubberstamped BP's requests, NOAA stated the actual spilling amount had no bearing, the ACoE delayed giving permission to create sandberms, etc. Sure there are some 1100+ vessels on the scene. Yet mostly they seem to be somewhat aimlessly dragging boom around, observing, etc. Most of the other personnel appear to be involved in holding or conducting the hearings. Sadly, I also suspect that this Friday when Obama visits, our beaches and marshes will be a hive of activity in total contrast to what is going on most days. By the way, this isn't just my observation. The same sentiment has been mirrored by local tv station reporters, Cooper Anderson on CNN and numerous others.

There is at least an attempt being made to hire people for the clean-up. The state department of labor lists a large number of jobs (one company supposedly seeking to hire 1000+ workers under a contract already given). Yet, here the downfall is all the workers need HAZWOPER certification. While that is only a 24 or 40 hour course depending on which one is needed, it is expensive to say the least (approx $350). Plus trying to funnel that amount of people through a course not usually that popular is creating logjams. For whatever reason also, most are seeking people with a minimum of 6 months of previous work with a hazwoper ceritification. That's simply not realistic for the number needed. It has also given rise to some levels of fraud/dishonesty with some temp agencies paying for the certification (I guess in the hopes of securing the temp agency work from a contractor) yet refusing to give the certificate to the person passing it when the worker is successful in finding employment elsewhere . All in all, at beach-front level zero, to me it seems like one grandiose cluster%$^#.

FWIW, even not being an Obama supporter, I do actually appreciate the fact he is coming here. One of his faults (?) is that he sometimes tends to have a short fuse. I am somewhat hoping that Friday it goes off. But really what would be needed and far more informative would be a "surprise" visit.

BRITISH PETRINA: President Obama's Achilles Heel

The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC was excellent last night, because she aired 31 Year Old video of a Gulf of Mexico platform blow-out.

BP is completely liable for this extended disaster and has done nothing new, to stop it! Here is Rachel's video: 1979IxtocOilDisaster Operation Sombrero.

Oil Bosses may claim that environmentalists are responsible for the Deepwater Horizon Disaster, because they pushed offshore drilling into deep water, yet the 1979 Gulf of Mexico Disaster took place in 200' of water....

The achilles heel in Barack Hussein Obama's response to the BP Deepwater Horizon Disaster, is that he approached this situation as a Harvard Law Professor, rather than the acclaimed environmentalist president.

It is absolutely clear that President Obama has been more concerned with damage liability, than forcing BP to 'Top Kill' the well at the onset of the disaster.

The Harvard Law Professor did not act like a president concerned with protecting Gulf of Mexico ecosystems, the territory of the United States, nor the well being of the people.

British Petrina = Katrina

DISASTER WEEKS

HURRICANE PREPAREDNESS WEEK MAY 23-29: Is BP prepared for [ALEX]?

Well it looks like Corexit is going to make people too sick to be able to clean this up.

It's enough to make you scream.

Voter, I appreciate your input from working on such teams. Remember, that was finger pointing induced by a questioning congressional hearing. Congress only cares enough to hold such hearings so they look like they are doing something important. Such hearings while the crisis is in progress accomplish NOTHING except distrust and knee jerk reactions.

The overarching effect this oil disaster will have in the Gulf Region will be similar to that happened w/ the Nuclear Reactor in Chernobyl - the Gulf will become a vast wasteland of dead water and land for not just our generation but for many generations to come. This should not have happened, but greed and power and money overcame common sense. There's a right way to drill and explore our natural resources and a wrong way. Then there's BP's and Haliburton's way. The testimony of the engineers the past few days show that clearly. What's also disgusting is that this 'hands-off' attitude of the Interior Department and their sub-agencies was started way back in 2001. All of America should show their disgust by not buying gasoline for one day - one specific day - how does July 4th sound, people? Can you help START THIS MOVEMENT OVER THE INTERNET- to show the oil companies that we're mad as hell and can't take it anymore? It may not change the world, but heck, one little action can make a little difference.

It is what it is---a DISASTER---of mammoth proportions. Enough of the rhetoric as it's been more than one month! There are two 'fronts' - one, at the source of the well, on the Gulf floor; and the second, on the surface! Why have they not used the concept of a flotilla of tankers, actually skimmers, to skim the oil from the surface. If this is maddening for most Americans to listen to, I can only imagine the heartbreak of those many millions living along the Gulf & 70% of this nation's wetlands. It is time to get off their duffs as we all continue to pray...

THe oil from this blow out was not the same as that involved in the Valdez spill, it was a different vicosity and in more confined area, the math in this statement of comparison is also incorrect, the quanity has yet to reach that of the Exxon Valdez and is also subject to scrutiny.

The recent statement by this so-called president are also in documented question and his words will not stand up to investigation if they are correctly reported by the MSM and others in the liberal media. HIs claims of leadership, involvment and technological help are full of blarney and blather just as he, who is another lying politician is. He wants credit for the success but had nothing to do with the plugging of this ruptured oil casing, not will he admitt to the inadequacy of this administration to claim responsibility for their own failures.

This adminstration and those who support it are infantile, lack professionalism and cannot make up for the total lack of expereince in this matter. For you who don't believe this ask yourself, "why is there no other governments in this world that is going to cut off it's own nose by stopping all exploration and drilling for a supply of available energy?"...this administration is composed of nothing but idealistic losers.

Vince, how's about Memorial Day---more fitting and right around the corner; but the 4th sounds fine to me for a boycott---SHAME ON YOU, BP!

Excuse me ...

Is anybody paying attention to the live feed from the well head? Just click on the live video link ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37358255#37358255

It had a hiccup following the top-kill attempt ... and then right back to full-blow.

How can BP actually state that "it's too early to tell"? The escape abated for a little while ... and is again in full-blow.

Obama said many critics failed to realize "this has been our highest priority."

Except, of course, for the fundraising dinners for Barbara Boxer in California, with all of my liberal movie stars.

With all the criticism of Obama and his band of merry thieves growing about the "handling" of the oil disaster, I was just curious when and how the lefty media is going to make this about race?

You KNOW it's coming!

Let's see............

Oil business.....rich white men.......slavery.....evil CEOs.......we shall overcome.......

Nah, I got nothin'.

But I'm not an MSNBC "journalist" either.

Most people have no idea how much oil is bieng pumped or shipped through the Gulf. This spill represents a tiny fraction. In fact about .001% of all of the oil we use is spilled.

Considering what they are doing (at the technological limits) they are incredibly safe.

If we used the same safety standards for airlines, trains or automobiles (or even horses), travel would be impossible.

You are going to have accidents from time to time.

There is no real cap on damages. There is no cap on cleanup costs. There is no cap on wrongful death or injury payments.

The $75 million dollar cap is on FEDERAL CLAIMS ONLY. (Where you do not have to show any negligence).

You can sue in state courts for economic damages, but you will have to prove negligence.

So everytime you hear someone say that they won't have to pay more than $75 million, they are either uninformed or have an agenda they are pushing.

So what were the devestating effects of IXTOC1? 200-300 million gallons of heavier crude? (We are at around 20 million with this spill). Not much.

You may have noticed that the media compares it to Valdez. Why would you not compare it to a spill in the Gulf? And why would you not compare it to the larger spill if you want to show how bad it could get?

Because IXTOC wasn't the end of life in the Gulf as this current spill is made out to be. It would just kill the hype to really compare the two. And how would that help sell papers or push a liberal environmental agenda?

If these guys are right, the top kill is not going to do a bit of good. A second expert is now agreeing with Matthew Simmons. They say there is another leak and it is bigger than the one coming from the BOP.

Approximately 6 miles from what BP and others believe is the main leak, there is a massive plume. It's location is unexplained in relation to the 'main leak.'

However, if the plume came from another leak, thought to be the "elephant behind the mouse," it would explain why there has been so much confusion about the spill rate, and why there is so much oil on the surface.

"All that all didn't come from that little dinky hole," according to industry expert Matthew Simons.

Simmons believes that when the Deepwater Horizon exploded, "the riser blew off the wellhead and it's still hooked to the rig," about 7 miles away.

Therefore, even if BP claims that the "top kill" is successful, it still may not stop the flow of oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

Chairman of Wow Energy Solutions, Nicholas Possi agrees with Simmons - BP has not only missed the main target, they may have actually "made it worse."

http://www.examiner.com/x-33986-Political-Spin-Examiner~y2010m5d26-2010-oil-spill-update-BP-may-be-trying-to-stop-the-wrong-leak-Video

I hope these guys are wrong, but they are making a good argument.

Ryan in Texas - they had two months to prepare for the oil to hit the coasts and when it did it hit beaches.

That leak was approx 60 miles offshore.

This oil is going into these wetlands. Trying to clean the wetlands is going to be near impossible.

The reason they compare it to Valdez is because that was the biggest spill in US history. And this one is comparing and expected to pass it in size.

Not to mention, if the two above are right, ( #1.84) this isn't even close to over yet.

Put a bladder over the break, fill up the bladder with oil, release the bladder which will rise to the surface, haul the bladder to a refinery, and then empty the bladder for re-use.

And that is being recommended by my 8 year old grandson.

That is a better solution than what these so called elite engineers are doing.

Meanwhile, the Hurricane season is rapidly approaching. Wait until one catches the slick and churns the stuff up the East Coast then catch another Hurricane and repeat itself over, and over, and over.

Eris - 1 month ago, Gov. Jindal asked permition to build sand bars to keep the oil from accessing the marshes. The response basically has been we'll get back to you with a response from the Army Corps of Engineers - Jindal still hasn't got an answer. The time for a decision on that was 4 weeks ago. Dredging like that can't be done in 10 minutes.

Eris - 1.84 says the leak is 6 miles away. The riser was about 5000 feet long (the depth of the water). There's no way that you are getting a leak 6 miles away through a pipe. There were no 6 mile long pipes.

Also, they don't compare it to IXTOC because there wasn't massive damage from it. That's even though it spilled at least 10 times more oil than this one has. Of course they compare it to the Valdez because that one happened in a small area, in cold water, with rock bottom, and far heavier crude - resulting in heavy damage to the marine environment. So the media can hype the current spill and say "this is a bigger spill than Valdez, so the damage will be worse."

But that's not the reality. In reality, this spill will not be an ecological disaster. Sure, it will present plenty of harm, but never forget that what they show on TV is the worst patch of oil, not a representative patch. It does not compare to Valdez on many levels. Lighter oil in warmer climates is a big deal. Huge amounts evaporate down here.

Many people have forgotten that every day that the fishing season is closed, the populations of fish will actually increase. That's because they harvest at a higher rate than the losses are due to the spill. In a few years, all the oil will be covered with sediment. Just like what happened with IXTOC.

Which is the real reason they don't compare this spill to IXTOC. You can't sell this one as an unimaginable disaster when one 10 times as big in the same Gulf did not produce one.

I think the true gravity of the situation is this little nugget.

The accident occured when crews were setting a concrete seal at 8000' below the Rig. That would be about 3000' somewhere, anywhere under the ocean floor. Engineers have got to be going nuts figuring out how to apply enough pressure to the drilling mud to get down 3000' of cassion without rupturing it worse. Even when they do accomplish this, how do they know when enough is enough?

If that oil plume spotted 6 miles away is related this is extremely catastrophic.

If this top kill doesn't work, they may be stuck with a 1910 California Gusser which lasted 18 months spurting an estimated 9 million barrels (378 million gallons of oil of which about half was recovered. That before the pressure was low enough for them to cap.

To anyone,

One simple question: Was this the first deep water oil drilling operation for any of those involved ? If so, why were they allowed to proceed ? Didn't anyone stop and think that with close to a mile of water sitting on top of the site, that there would be significant pressure on that "pool of oil" that they were drilling into?

This whole thing looks like the old "keystone cops flicks", except this has created such a mess, that we have no idea what the total extent of the damage will be!

BTW What happened to the eyewitnesses that spoke of BP safety execs in a break room next to the mud room when the explosion happened? Supposedly they were there celebrating the rig's safety record and were "using ignition materials", often a euphemism for smoking. If indeed they were smoking, in violation of everything from OSHA regulations to BP policies, wouldn't they be guilty of eleven counts of manslaughter and multiple counts of maiming? If oil rig workers are forbidden not only to bring smoking materials on board, and in fact, not even nylon windbreakers or panty hose, why were BP execs in possession of "ignition materials" whether it was smoking-related or not?

Gordon9ON, most of the offshore drilling since 2000 has been deep water drilling. This is either the largest or second largest known reservoir remaining, estimated to hold between 30-40 billion barrels of oil and gas.

TeaTime! We colonials just don`t understand how the system works!

Texas Tea! Black Gold - blatt/stein/berg.

We jist need Eli Mae, with the big "Booms"!

Ya`ll come up ta, Cordova, AK, - yah, hear???

See fur yur-self!

Briwnys #1.93,

Thanks! I still don't think they are ready for "Prime-Time". If they've been doing it that long, procedures should be easy to follow, including contingencies well established.

What I would like to know, is, why isn’t former vice president Dick Cheney being held responsible for any part of this oil spill???

He held private meetings with the heads of big oil and they were held in secret…

The Bush/Cheney administration ruined this country and they are laughing all the way to the bank…

In my opinion they should be brought to trial and if found guilty thrown in jail…

Doesn'tlook like the private sector can do anything right except rip off the taxpayer and the suckers who back them.

There is a movement to boycott BP gas getting started. it's time these criminals were driven out of business once and for all.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/05/27/jk.bill.nye.on.top.kill.cnn?hpt=T1

Bill Nye gives a real reasoned, rational and emotive explanation of what's at stake.

Saying this is America's Chernobyl was a no-brainer, where the brains will come in

is solving an extremely complex problem. Just imagine they put that cofferdam back

on top of the well, then blew it full of concrete. Underwater, concrete weighs half

what it weighs on the surface, so you'd have a couple hundred tons of steel and

concrete sitting over the well bore, but the well could be blowing out at hundreds

of pounds per square inch, so the uplift on that cofferdam could be 1,000's of tons.

I think that's what happened with the methane ice, it plugged the riser pipe, and

then the uplift pressure from the well just blew the cofferdam off like a Dixie Cup.

A Dixie Cup in a geyser! So their idea of pouring fluid the consistency of whipped

cream down a venting riser with hundreds of pounds per square inch uplift, there's

no doubt in my mind, they blew thousands of barrels of mud back out into the sea.

The 'junk shot' will be even less successful, if as Bill Nye points out, they don't plug

their downpipe just getting the crumbles to the riser, the venting gas plume will

just shoot those crumbles back up like a paintball out of a very big paintball gun.

You can always hope, and hope springs eternal, but there has to be a backup plan,

especially if there is another riser plume as has been indicated by experts today.

The backup plan is a Federal cap on business, boat and mortgage loans for the

foreseeable future, relying on the banks to provide audit-traceable records to BP

for all their Gulf clients who lost their livelihoods, with Fed floating for those loans

until BP can be assessed and those loan refi's repaid back to the Fed, but again,

your backup plan has to be, has to be, 100% livelihood backstop by the Feds, just

like they backstopped the livelihood of all those fat-cat bank-brokers on Wall Street,

who 'blew out their own wells', then we were forced to cover their gambling debts.

Here real people, innocent people, 100,000s of Americans have lost their livelihood.

There should be zero tolerance for banks, credit card companies or collection agencies

to be shaking down these innocent Americans. Obama and Bernanke absolutely must

backstop all losses and livelihoods, using the banks for auditing trail, then taking BP

to World Court if need be, to recover the losses, not require innocent Americans to

wait 20 years to get 5c on the $ from some NYC class action lawsuit. Probably 1/2c!

Where's the beef?! It's one thing to say the 'buck stops here', but not if citizens are

standing on rooftops or drowning in their attics, screaming, 'Someone please help!'

Every year Americans pay almost 50% of their income to Mil.Gov, where is the love?

Here's are excerpts from article from the WS website:

Gulf oil spill: Why is BP in charge?

27 May 2010

BP's criminal actions in causing the deadly explosion on the Deepwater Horizon oil rig, documented in recent congressional testimony, and its incompetence and greed in response to the resulting oil spill have provoked growing popular anger. Millions are wondering why they have yet to see television footage of executives handcuffed and hauled away in police cars, their passports revoked, their assets seized, and BP's vast resources devoted fully to stopping the spill and cleaning up the Gulf of Mexico....

...BP has used nearly 800,000 gallons of a chemical dispersant, Corexit, that is more toxic and less effective than other dispersants readily available on the market. Corexit's only apparent advantage is that the company selling it, Nalco, is dominated by executives with close ties to BP and Exxon.

More effective methods could be used to contain and remove the oil—for example, deploying absorbent boom lines that soak up the oil rather than plastic booms that allow the oil to pass under and over, and creating barrier islands along the Gulf Coast. But these and other possibilities have been ruled out due to their cost.

BP claims to have spent $760 million so far in spill-related costs. Even if true, this is a relatively small sum. Peter Hitchens of Panmere Gordon told the Wall Street Journal that BP could "easily absorb" $20 billion in spill-related costs. "BP will tend to view this as a one-off," he said.

Nor will the spill likely affect BP's coming disbursement to its shareholders, just as Transocean, the owner and operator of Deepwater Horizon, recently handed out $1 billion in dividends to its shareholders, even as it fought in court to limit its liability to injured workers and the families of the 11 workers killed in the blast to $27 million...

...The one constant feature in the Obama administration's response—which has ranged from a full-throated defense of deep-sea drilling in the first days after the disaster to impotent criticisms of the implicated corporate interests—has been its insistence that BP should be in charge. Why?

Over the past several decades, US capitalism has based itself on the removal of virtually all legal limitations on the pursuit of corporate profit. Deregulation—leaving the major industrial concerns to supervise their own safety and environmental performance—has taken hold across the economy. From finance, to the airlines, to the energy industry, deregulation has created a disaster for the American people.

The entire apparatus of the government, all of its branches, the two major political parties and their bought-and-paid-for politicians have so deeply integrated themselves into the structure of big business and Wall Street and so thoroughly subordinated themselves to corporate interests that any assertion of government control is almost unthinkable.

Under these conditions, the Obama administration is fearful that even a marginal degree of government control over the oil spill could spark popular demands for similar action regarding other sectors of the the economy. Why, after all, should the same financial concerns that led the world into economic collapse be left in control of the economic "cleanup"—at the cost of trillions in public wealth?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/may2010/pers-m27.shtml

I do have to still admit I get a kick out of the feigned indignation about the cozy relationships between oil industry and Washington. How is this any different than the practice of what appears to be staffing with Goldman Sachs employees in financial areas of government? It just points to a total breakdown of Washington being there to truly represent the public.

Voter-in-LA Now we just have to wonder-where else do these relationships lie and what kind of disaster could be next.

Frankly my only question is "where are the super tankers that can suck up the oil' similar to those that were used in the Gulf over 30 years ago when there was a gusher?

Why is it that in other first world countries they use these super tankers to contain the oil spillage,, while they are trying to stop the gusher yet this is not being done here in this country?

Could it be that BP's slow to action is because they thought that they had a few folks (nudge nudge, wink wink) in their corner who could quell the angry hoards so they could go about the plugging of the well and the clean up the way they did - without the supertankers ringing the Gulf sucking up oil on the surface and sucking up the plumes of oil under the surface - including using a dispersant that was banned in Britain - per news reports? Hmmmm

If this gusher had occurred on say the California, Florida or the East Coast do you think BP would have been as laxcidacical and disorganized and untruthful as they appear to have been so far in their response to the containment, cleanup and capping of the gusher and the treatment of the residents/businesses/wetlands in Louisiana? Hmmmmm

Let's see their actions/statements so far.......1000 barrels then 5000 barrels, then top hat, then 'bowler' hat, dispersants, then placement of pipe to syphon the oil, 1000 barrels being syphoned, then it was 5000 barrels being syphoned then.... ooops cameras show oil is still gushing like crazy and on and on.......oil in the marshes, oil on the water, enoumous plumes of oil underwater, minimal payments made to businesses/people losing monies, promises made etc etc etc

Or could it be that BP thought that just because this gynormous gusher is impacting Louisiana in particular - a State that was treated with indifference and lacking in leadership during and after Katrina- that they thought that they could get away with their -from the look of things- lack of urgency and fudging of the amount of oil gushing into the Gulf and the importance of knowing the actual amount of gushing going on? Hmmmmm

Why are we seeing oil in the wetlands if there is ongoing containment by BP and they are doing everything they can blah blah blah?

Moderate environmental impact eh BP? Wonder what you would view as a gynormous impact of a historic kind? hmmm

Why are there humongous plumes of oil under water that is not being captured/sucked up into supertankers? Is this the old 'out of sight out of mind' thingy going on?

Does this country have a independent specially trained emergency response team to deal with/cap and clean up oil gusher/spills?

How do we know BP is actually doing what they are asked to do really? Or are we hoping that they are doing what they are asked to do because we have to take their word for it?

Why is the govt giving leases to these oil folks to drill at this depth if the govt then have to depend on the offending party to clean up their own mess when there is a blowout?

Still think that all we need is govt out of our lives and the govt is too big? LOL

With some of the people doing the clean up being hospitalized...... is BP going to pay for their healthcare cost as they probably do not have any health insurance coverage due to job loss from the oil gusher.......

Still think that a public healthcare option is a bad idea? LOL

bZe,

great post-I have the same thoughts/concerns. I do believe if the spill had happened on the east coast that BP's response may have been different. I live on the coast of Maine-and our governor doesn't put up with any b.s. However, when faced with a corporation with deep pockets and deep connections to Washington-who can say what would happen.

DB Akron

Eris - 1 month ago, Gov. Jindal asked permition to build sand bars to keep the oil from accessing the marshes. The response basically has been we'll get back to you with a response from the Army Corps of Engineers - Jindal still hasn't got an answer. The time for a decision on that was 4 weeks ago. Dredging like that can't be done in 10 minutes.

To make matters with this even more confusing, the ACoE gave Jindal the approval late yesterday to build 6 of the 24 sand bars proposed on May 11th. However they've only required BP to pay for one at this point (so much for holding BP fully accountable). Then hours after this approval, the USCG disallowed 5 of the ACoE approved sand bars. If there's good reason and an explanation, I have no issue, but to me this just shows more total and utter confusion between governmental agencies.

Add Transocean and Halliburton too.

The concern about blowing anything up is always: will it may make the problem larger, worse.

Its a metal pipe and a hole in the ground. Crush the pipe and collapse the hole on itself and the leak is sealed.

There intent is to try and siphon off some oil using contraptions to make back some of the money this will cost them.

It's a disgrace..

but it is not a "hole in the ground"

How many feet of water? No divers able to go that deep so "mechanical hands" will have to perform some tasks...may need practice? may need mechanical adjustments? may need to formulate a plan with all possible events anticipated? Oh, only if life could be so simple as "a hole in the ground!" But when you are too big to fail, why worry, right?

Blow it up?

And instead of having a damaged 21" diameter pipe (346 square inch area) and have an area of 10 - 100+ square feet to plug when it fails 40%+ of the time. I'd bet that there 10-50' deep of silt.sand before they get to rock. Yeah I probably ought to hire the people who are suggesting that.

The concern about blowing anything up is always: will it may make the problem larger, worse.

PEOPLE, do not think the "flow line" is not damaged already? Remember what happened? How we got here?

There are about five big steps to fix this and that if the "flow line " is in great shape.

Blow it up, and take the loss B.P.!

2 hip for u - do you know what "shotgunning" a well does? This was done years ago to wells that were underproducing. What they did is lower explosives down the inner casing and set them off. what this does is rupture the integrity of the Sands and Rocks in the area. The assumption is that there is oil there and if the fracture that area, more will come in. They have to replace the damaged tubing down the hole so the well may be pumped.

Blowing this up is on the surface. This is a tough proposal, because you are hoping the debris seals off the well without knowing for certain the consistency of the soil/rock will actually do that. Furthermore, you may rupture the seal the ocean floor permitting ocean water to leak into lower layers of rock/sediment. If you damage this, how do you propose to fix it, if you can't plug the stupid 21" hole?

Never said "shotgunning" I want a small nuke, sucessful in 4 out of 5 in RUSSIA.

http://www.livescience.com/technology/russia-nuke-gulf-oil-well-100512.html

20% chance of failure...

Top Shot 60% success... if that!

Do the math...

Read the posts. This is a totally different environment from what the Russians had to deal with. BTW, the U.S. had their own program, Operation Plowshare, and conducted 27 nuclear tests before it was abandoned in 1977 for various reasons. If this was a viable option, don't you think it would have already been suggested? The instability of the continental slope makes the possibility of submarine landslides and earthquakes in the area as a result of any explosion are at least 10² times more likely than on land or in shallower water.

small nuke...???

The instability of the continental slope makes the possibility of submarine landslides and earthquakes in the area as a result of any explosion are at least 10² times more likely than on land or in shallower water.

Could a blast like that disturb the Carribbean tectonic plate? There've already been several earthquakes associated with it this year. The last thing we need is a man-made tsunami in the Gulf, or worse.

Avery,very, very small nuke....LOL~

look you guys, you can't just nuke every problem... blowing up the well would create hundreds of cracks in the sea floor through which the oil would continue to seep. if the solution to this problem were simple, it would have been fixed already. BP wants this thing stopped as much as the rest of us.

fb...stfu...you know squat...

Just blow it up. Yeah; it’s that simple. Just like it is that simple to stick a thing in the well like a “lollypop” that another Newviner mentioned as if a similar concept is being attempted right now called the “Top Kill”. A person really must be aware with just general common sense unless you are an imbecile that the damage to the structure of the well is most likely more then in one or even two different locations. Plugging a leak that is spewing oil and methane gas under extreme pressures deep at the gulfs floor very well could/is acting as a pressure release. Plugging that pressure release could make for a bigger leak or eruption in one or more of the other week spots.

Not to defend the @!$%#s at BP that caused this but considering the amount of Methane Gas contained in this chamber that is leaking (not to mention the oil) everything...and I mean everything rides on getting this right to stop the leak (providing that it can be stopped).

So blowing it up sort of speak I think should be a last ditch scenario and it is not like we are talking something as simple in shooting a @!$%#ing nuke at it like some simpletons would state. Would you just blow up a super volcano that is venting its energy to try and stop it? Because that is pretty much what this is. Take in consideration of what this disaster is and if it comes down to set explosive charges at the bottom of the sea floor at that depth in the attempt to defuse this monster we awakened could cause the sea floor collapsing in on the chamber and...... Well; either way you look at it we are at risk of all of our worst fears very well could be coming true right here and now.

I don’t think most of you really understand the magnitude of this disaster when we are talking about Methane Gas that is well into the 100s of trillions of cubic feet, escaping under high pressures in a large and rapid release can do (unlike small and semi-controlled amounts of what is being flared at the sea surface at the moment). Also keep in mind there is no knowing if this chamber is connected to other chambers, so; this big @!$%#ing ass bomb that has its fuse lit could very well be that much more catastrophic.

And the simpletons just want to blow it up! Can’t imagine why our country sucks ass when people are so retarded to think @!$%#ed in the head news is actually news!

Make no mistake about it; this is a real life Armageddon unfolding (not a @!$%#ing movie). If anyone can provide me with evidence that the chamber is not large enough to support my concerns please, by all means; I invite you to it.

Great, you obviously don't grasp the destruction of a small nuclear device, your going for a 200'+ crater, and giving any sea life withing 50 miles a big dose of radiation.

Trying to pump expansive heavy clays into the well sounds like a pretty good idea to me. I'd be inclined to a least try it before explosives, nuclear or otherwise. All I wonder is why it's taken more than a month to implement the Top Kill. Keeping this equipment and material in place should be pre-requisite to issuance of a drilling permit.

Too bad we're depending on BP for this fix.

Drilling relief wells like other countries do just in case something like this happens in conjunction of drilling exploratory wells should be prerequisite to issuance of a drilling permit

Drilling without relief wells has been occurring for @!$%#ing decades and it has happened before by the same @!$%#s that caused this also in the gulf 31 years ago. This is what you get when decades of deregulation (mainly by republicans) press for.

'BP is doing everything they can'...a month after they should have done the TopKill. They didn't want to stop the flow because they knew it would be hell to get another permit. They've destroyed our coastline over a future permit issue! Unbelievable!!

Russians used nukes in the 60's for land gas wells that were out of control. This was before anyone understood the after effects. They never did it subsea.

There is a reason they don't do it now...and it has nothing to do with tectonic plates...it has everything to do with radiation. If you think the oil is bad on the environment, unleash a butt load of electrons, neutrons and protons like this in the sea and kiss Orca and Moby, Crusty the Crab, Patrick and Sponge Bob good bye...forever.

When they use explosives they use it to blow the fire in a well out, like a candle. Then they can get in and do what they need to cap it. How is that supposed to work underwater?

Now for some gloom and doom. I believe it was in 1979 it took something like 8 months using the same techniques to stop a leaking well in the gulf.....in 200' of water. I hope we've learned at least a little something by now......I hope.

jed it not to often i agree with you but this one i think you're right on.this well i beleive could have been sealed rightaway but bp would have lost the well.the process there using right now will key words kill the well bp has been lying trying to protect there well all along.these people should be put out of bussiness. and we have another unamerican companies involved the super tankers are full of oil and waiting for the price to go up,the pres should orsder them to unload and get there asses out there and pickup the oil on the water they have the knowhow just dont want to.some thing has to be done with big bussiness,they are running this country in the ground.i do beleive the pres will act agaisnt those people whpm own the super tankers.ita the only solution for cleanup,and not too late

Wow! Some of the comments on this vine are scary. I'm curious as how some of the posters on here even know how to type or how to pull a lever in a voting booth. A small nuclear detonation should have been their first option when they found out how bad it was. Fracturing the sea floor, radiating sealife within 50 miles, effecting techtonic plates, creating Tsunamis, BP didn't want to seal the well earlier because they then would have to re-permit? Really? You're all insane or you're a bunch of fifth graders off for the Summer with no friends who think you're smarter than you actaully are. Here's some advice. Log off the computer and go outside. If you don't want to go outside cause you're afraid of the neighborhood kids beating the snot out of you for being the douchebags you are, plug in your Wii. At least you'll get some exercise without having to worry about getting a sunburn or your asses kicked.

Now for some gloom and doom. I believe it was in 1979 it took something like 8 months using the same techniques to stop a leaking well in the gulf.....in 200' of water. I hope we've learned at least a little something by now......I hope.

They're using the same techniques they were using then, that didn't work and they are doing it in deeper water.

I think it is safe to say they haven't learned a damn thing. The only difference between now and then is that there may be scientists who have learned a little more about how to get this to work.

The oil companies need to thank their lucky stars for them if this works.

This isn't about shutting it down ... it's about saving it in a way that maximizes remaining profit.

Yes - it could have been collapsed and permanently closed off - but that wasn't in the plan.

So you want to fix a leaky pipe with dynomite, eh?

Ya'll must be drinking something stronger than what we can get down here.

The US military doesn't have the equipment to work at 5000 feet of water. The bomb casings would crush like an aluminum can.

Some have said that BP doesn't want to lose the well. But knowing where the oil is, is most of the challenge of drilling.

I keep hearing goofballs say that BP is just trying to not destroy the well. The well is destroyed. They will just drill right next to it (essentially the relief well will capture all the oil that is in that pocket, eventually).

I think people forget that early airplanes crashed alot. Years later, not so much. We are dealing with cutting edge technology. They will learn more in this spill than they could in 20 years of study. There is no substitute for experience. And really, how would they test the theories anyway?

There's a good bit of hype on the spill as well. It helps the media sell papers.

But it reminds me of how the Yucatan of Mexico dealt with Wilma vs. how New Orleans dealt with Katrina.

Wilma was a way more powerful storm. It tore up Cozumel and the Cancun area. But they didn't publicize it. They quietly repaired the massive damage and then the tourists came back quickly.

In N.O., at every chance they got they loudly proclaimed: "We are completely destroyed ....but please come visit."

Svenolafson, it's nice to see you can insult everyone with their suggestions. However, through all your immature ranting, I did not see a single suggestion on your part on how to deal with this situation. Nice to see you completed your insulting 101 class.

You have actually contributed less to this discussion than the person that reccomended a nuke.

Also, when making fun of people for spelling errors, be sure you spellcheck your own post first.

Well, here we are again, watched 6 feeds all night, man the Coffee must be black over their at BP, they were busy little beavers...

Update: "Top KILL SHOT" IS NOT GOING TO WORK...

http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/incident_response/STAGING/local_assets/images/TopKill_5-21_1a_large.jpg

Update: I don't think they will even try the shot (TODAY), if they do it will not work!

Best feed if you don't have a PC to full feed...

http://www.wkrg.com/gulf_oil_spill/spill_cam/watch-the-oil-leak-live/888518/P20/

They should have blown it up 1ST week.

DEAD GULF SEA

2hip, I followed that first link. Other than the very nice graphic (I love the tiny little puff of oil leaking from the bent riser, BP has some real marketing geniuses!), I don't see anything to indicate that it will or will not work. Not jumping on you, just wondering how you came to that conclusion just from that picture.

I didn't come up with the conclusion from the pic, the pic was for fun, or funny. I see everything that indicates it won't work... I am watching the full feed. (up to 12 cams)

Although 60%-70% success is quite high, I think the PSI out is way to high, also the angle of the flow line is not right for this design. Horizontal as opposed to vertical. Bop will not hold.

I also have a host of other ideas, of why it won't work, but lets all sit back and find out...

I am inclined to agree with you that because of the kink in the pipe this procedure might well have a far less than the optimistic 60-70% chance of success. Pressure wise they would probably be OK on a straight shot as the pump is capable of 30000PSI. However, seeing as they've received the go-ahead I have to assume that the pressure tests of the BOP they ran overnight have come back positive. If not successful, they'll end up having to cut the pipe, put a new containment dome (already at site) over the now bigger leak and then go back to the drawing board again.

You do understand that they don't want to make it worse, right?

I know people are impatient. Maybe the Federal Gov't should let the states have all the revenue from the leasing of wells off their coasts. I'm sure Louisiana could use the several billion that the US Gov't takes in for cleanup.

Or did you forget that the Federal Gov't makes billions off drilling, and refuses to share with the states who are negatively impacted by spills?

They make billions off drilling, and then turn around and give it right back in the form of subsidies. It'd be interesting to see what the numbers are. I believe the subsidies are between $15 and 35$ billion of our tax dollars every year.

There is negligence ONLY if short-cuts from the accepted practice of safety is proven. This is 5000' under water. No-one even knows if accepted safe practices are even acceptable at that depth until they are tried. I would hope my attorney would dump you from any jury pool for my trial.

No-one even knows if accepted safe practices are even acceptable at that depth until they are tried. I would hope my attorney would dump you from any jury pool for my trial.

Isn't that why they shouldn't be doing it? If you can't know what you're doing then you shouldn't do it. And if you are going to conduct an experiment you do it in a safe environment. You plan for any event you can think of.

There is nothing that they have done so far that even indicates that they did that. They even had to build the containment domes.

They counted on the BOP not to fail and that's it. I'd nail them too.

Eris, with what you are saying says we shouldn't have gone to the moon either!

Oh, the scientific advances we enjoy today because we did. Don't like petroleum, you'd be amazed at the products that we have because of petroleum, clothing, food, medicine, shelter, not to mention transportation, flight, or even going to the moon. Do you know what white oil is? Without it, no moon, just like the Russians, no manned moon trip.

You don't learn anything unless you try something new. If it fails at least learn how to do it!

DB when they went to the moon they planned for everything they could think of. They didn't do that when drilling this deep into the water.

They just bet on the BOP. You'd think it would have occurred to them that they might encounter a leak that deep into the water if they hadn't just disregarded it, thinking the BOP was the end all.

It's inexcusable.

This happened because Cheney de-regulated the drillers and now the Democrats are trying to remove the cap as to how much the offenders (BP) have to pay out because of their carelessness and all three times in the last few days it has been voted down by Republicans. I can't wait to hear how the Republicans defend this.

BP will only have to pay out 7 million and us taxpayers will have to pay the rest. Vote these Republicans out.

nwnative, that $7M figure is incorrect. The limit under the 1990 OPA is $75M (or $350M capped depending on how you read the law) unless they can find reason to assess civil fines and penalties which may increase it to $1000 per barrel leaked. But actually if you want to vote anyone out it should be the Democrats who were the ruling party at the time the 1990 law was enacted which imposed these ridiculously small limits.

But actually if you want to vote anyone out it should be the Democrats who were the ruling party at the time the 1990 law was enacted which imposed these ridiculously small limits.

No, we'd vote out the Republicans who are trying to prevent the cap from being raised now.

The Dems may have made the mistake, but at least they are trying to fix it. Once again, the GOP is standing in the way of it.

For conservatives, they sure seem ready to spend our freaking money now.

Eris, going forward I'd agree, but I do hope you do comprehend that you cannot enact retroactive legislation.

Apparently they are trying and if that were the case you'd think the Reps would be using that as the argument but they're not.

Instead they are using some lame excuse about how mom and pop oil companies wouldn't be able to pay for a mess if they have the same issue.

If you can't afford to clean up after yourself then you shouldn't be allowed in the business. Other "small" businesses don't get these kinds of breaks. If they are unable to run their business according to the laws, the laws don't get made to suit them. They just can't have their business.

This is BS in the highest order.

Drilling relief wells like other countries do just in case something like this happens in conjunction of drilling exploratory wells should be prerequisite to issuance of a drilling permit

Drilling without relief wells has been occurring for @!$%#ing decades and this has happened before by the same @!$%#s that caused this also in the gulf 31 years ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37368377#37368377

This is what you get when decades of deregulation (mainly by republicans) press for.

That was Inhofe who argued that mom and pop businesses will be excluded from this market (deep sea oil drilling), Eris. Someone forgot to tell him that you have to lease a half billion dollar rig just to drill the well, then pay for all the production. Just how many small time producers are we to believe are in this market? Just how dumb does Republican Senator Inhofe think we are? Dumb enough, apparently, to re-elect him twice.

Eris, for the sake of brevity and although I hate Wiki's:

In the United States, the federal government is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution and the states are prohibited from the same by clause 1 of section 10. This is one of the very few restrictions that the United States Constitution made to both the power of the federal and state governments prior to the Fourteenth Amendment. Over the years, when deciding ex post facto cases, the United States Supreme Court has referred repeatedly to its ruling in the Calder v. Bull, 3 U.S. 386 (1798), in which Justice Samuel Chase established four categories of unconstitutional ex post facto laws. The case dealt with Article I, section 10, since it dealt with a Connecticut state law.

My point exactly Eris.

Apollo 13 happened. Except for quick thinking on the crew's part to shut of all power, close all valves, and an entire NASA ground team finding solutions to problems they could not have imagined, they die of suffocation, fly out uncontrolled into space to die, or burn up in the earths atmosphere.

Keep in mind - 5000 is very inaccessible compared to land or shallower areas, but it is not like outerspace. There is plants and sea life at risk, many will be lost, but not sent to extinction. In Mexico 30 years ago, the had a gusser of about the same size go unchecked for 9 months. The sea, beaches, plants and sea creatures recovered.

The key is to learn, meaning find the cause, make the appropriate changes and do a better job anticipating problems as conditions are found to be different.

We didn't learn well enough because the cause of the Apollo disaster was a damaged wire assembly that was re-used. Despite autopsy on Rocket Booster seals showed near failure, the system was never changed and we paid for that with the Challenger explosion.

We didn't learn enough from The WTC Towers coming down either. Hidden in the facts, the original plans called for asbestos based fire proofing to line all structural steel. Yes this is environmentally very bad and never be used. It should have been removed from lower 5 floors it was installed in. The replacement for asbestos was a mineral fibre light weight concrete mix that was very brittle. When the planes hit the towers, the shock of impact knocked the fire proofing off columns and connections. Once the ensuing fires fueled by flamable office furnishings and papers exceeded 600 degrees F long enough, the steel joists and connections failed bringing down the towers from within. There were a number of other design issues that contributed to larger numbers dying, but, no one ever considered weak points exploited by terrorism. Today, our new high-rises will be safer than effort.

We lost the Columbia because we wanted to be environmentally friendly. The insulated foam on the fuel tank was a spray on insulation installed using a high VOC (usually petroleum based) formula. VOC's in concentration are not good for you, especially if applied indoors. The VOC's have to do with the applying and sticking to surfaces. In this case, replacing the VOC's meant that the new foam did not adhere as well and could not handle the shock. Nothing was done about the formula until Columbia broke up on re-entry. NASA was forced to adjust the formula, yet further delays occured because tile repair systems had to be designed to make up for a foam that still was not achieving the durability of the VOC version.

BUT, from the disaster, we learned many things we did not know that were applied to the existing fleet, and will be used in any other manned craft.

I believe a moratorium on deep water drilling should be enforced until the complete cause or possible causes can be designed for. Meanwhile, more shallow wells should be permitted so we don't get caught in another OPEC squeeze.

Again the liberal "$75 million cap" talking point. The $75 million is only at the federal level.

Each hurt party can sue at the state level. The only difference is that they would have to prove negligence (the $75 M is without having to prove negligence).

There is no limit on the cleanup. BP has spent about $600 million already.

I am not an expert in this field. In my humble opinion, BP should be held liable for all of the clean up, as far I understand the cap limit, they (BP) are resonsible for all of the environmental clean up cost. BP should have to pay the government for the cost incured by the CG, etc. As far as the economic cost that is were the 75 million cap comes in. If one of the earlier posters said; if negligence is proven, then they could be held liable for all of the economic loss also. I am all for everyone boycotting the use of fossil fuels for one day. Take it a step further..boycott buying or using any products made from these sources also. Only problem that I can think of is, if you pick a day like the 4th of July. How many people are going to do without their air conditioning? How many power plants use fossil fuels to generate their electricity. Of course we could just call for the boycott of petroleum and their by-products!! Just a thought!!!!

blow the well to kingdom come, Russians have done it 3 times and it worked all three times. bunker buster type missile / torpedo maybe with a supercavitaion tip, get it in deep and detonate. This thing could have been shut off in three days.

Could they even use explosives at that depth if they wanted to. Several posters on this thread have suggested this, but my humble thought is with the intense pressure of being 1 mile under the water, how would one get the explosives there in the first place, wouldn't there be a risk of the explosives going off before reaching the proper location from the pressure? Also, even if the explosives were able to be used, with the pressure and temperatures, would any explosions be effective? Then what if it didn't work, but only made the problem worst? Just trying to think it through . . .

Combine that with a top kill of the company that employed the mud engineer, and a top kill of MMS who approved the action. Plenty of blame to spread around here.

And the top of our govment needs to go too. After all, the febs gave the well their stamp of approval after inspection!

Give the POTUS a break. Obama can't fix EVERYTHING the GOP screwed up at once. They had plenty of time and they were a WORLD CLASS bunch of screwups.

I think the Bush family are actually terrorists. How else do you explain what they did?

I am no fan of Bush but what did he do? Then please explain what the POTUS has done different.

Clinton was no different than Bush 1, then Bush 2 wasn't much different than Clinton, a little better here and little worse there, now PBO is no different than Bush, a little better here a lot worse there. Our country has been heading in this direction for 20 years (probably closer to 50)and both parties have been in charge in that time so it isn't the Dems fault and it isn't the Repubs fault, it is both of their damn fault but most people are too frickin stupid or close minded to think anything other than my side is perfect and your side sucks.

The Dems are just as corrupt, just as out of touch, and just as arrogant as the GOP. People have got to stop thinking in terms of "my party" and go back to thinking in terms of "our country."

Anyone whothinks every party is corrupt except theirs is completely naive; they all have issues. Obama should have addressed this spill a lot earlier!! To sit and hope in his 'do nothing' approach doesnt cut it.

somehow the repubs will try to make this obamas fault what new get the repubs out of office everything that is happening inthis country is repub control. take a poll and see how many excutives are demos in any major corp.anybody want to bet there repubs

ron avery,

"somehow the repubs will try to make this obamas fault what new get the repubs out of office everything that is happening inthis country is repub control. take a poll and see how many excutives are demos in any major corp.anybody want to bet there repubs"

Kinda like the dems and media made Katrina President Bush's fault? For the rest of your post I would council you to either sober up or go back to school.

There are always contingency plans in the oil business. My question is how many belts and suspenders should you put on to keep your pants from dragging on the ground? Don't you take time to select the best approach?

Wait until we hear about how it affects water temperature, toxic rains, and further global warming. How far off the deep end of this ocean of disregard for the only livable planet in our solar system do we have to go before we wake up! Is this our last chance to make a significant difference in what we all leave for future generations? If we do not care, what does that say about us? Are we afraid of making sacrifices for a greater good that is actually survival?

Bill, there was a similar size well let loose off the north coast of Brazil that leaked between 2000 and 2001. It didn't entirely destroy the environment, but it did damage life. For the most part there has been no lasting damage. If the tar balls in Florida weren't planted, this may be the source.

Petroleum is the liquid remains of ocean protoplanktin and algea. Spread thin enough in the ocean bacteria will eat most of it without harm and actually provide a bumper crop of food for other sea life. What is a problem is the tar portion which is not fast to break down and does the most harm to plants and wildlife.

In crisis management, the priority is to chose the method with the highest success percentage and the least damage. The top Kill methods will damage the equipment and will increase pressure on existing parts that could cause them to fail with no way to seal the resulting leaks.

dorrit,

"Wait until we hear about how it affects water temperature, toxic rains, and further global warming. How far off the deep end of this ocean of disregard for the only livable planet in our solar system do we have to go before we wake up! Is this our last chance to make a significant difference in what we all leave for future generations?"

Hysterical much? The planet's been through a whole hell of a lot worse and doesn't seem to be any worse for wear. I for one propose we should all committ mass suicide. We can then relieve the world of the plague that is man. You first.

tigirmania... the fisherman cannot collect unemployment as they are self-employed.

Ernest, you are entirely correct. The area is highly unstable, marine landslides are common and any geologist should have known it! That specific area, the Mississippi Canyon, is a textbook example, literally, of where NOT to drill. Professor Dawn Wright, in Marine and coastal geographical information systems, published in 2000, actually cites the exact location - "Very large slides in the Gulf of Mexico, east of Mississippi Canyon, offshore Louisiana. These slides combined encompass over 5,000 km² of seafloor. Slides of this magnitude could pose substantial hazard to offshore drilling and/or production infrastructure."

I've been watching the vid all morning. It looks like live video to me.

Depending on the angle they shoot from and what part you're looking at it will look different. Who knows. Maybe I am watching prerecorded video.

Whichever, it doesn't matter. We all know we're not being told too much of the truth about anything.

On the news this morning they had asked scientists about the amount of oil in that well...

enough to continue pouring out to last our life time.

What's tricky about this is that water acts a lot like space. They are going to have a hard time being steady to get something crammed in there. The oil is pushing out with a huge force, and they are trying exceed that pressure with an unanchored robot. They will be fighting the force they are using plus that of the oil. The calculations have got to be mind-boggling, let along being accurate.

The pressure is their problem though isn't it? Are they sure they have anything that can go up against that kind of force? They downplayed how much oil was coming out, which means they have inadvertently down played the amount of force coming out of that thing.

I think that is absolutely part of why they are worried about the top kill.

Eris,

I just wanted to tell you I read your dissertation on fluid dynamics and the effects of pressure. Brilliant! When can we expect your Doctoral Thesis?

Shell Oil, Exxon and others are all involved in helping. NONE of them have planned for this. You can't blame Obama for that. It was their responsibility to.

Remember Reagan? "government doesn't solve problems, government IS the problem." Riiiiiight...

Now it's the government's responsibility? What happened to small government conservatives on this one? Where are the Republicans demanding more deregulation (excepting Rand Paul, of course)?

eris,

does obama bear responsibility for anything? it seems that according to the left he does not. however responsibility for all of societies ills continues to be heaped on the previous administration by those who would absolve this one of anything and everything.

seems time for a reality check on the left.

Obama had to set priorities when he came into office and many said he could not tackle everything that was wrong. The Republicans were actually glad they did not have to clean up after themselves. What is so gauling is that the Republicans want the Democrats to clean up and take the blame for the collosal Republican messes while the Repubs showboat and try to obstruct the Democrats' every move while some balance is brought back. And once again who pays for all this childish behavior and needy greed for control? WE THE PEOPLE! and we are damn tired of it!

For the times we are in, we need an intelligent, not a sly, Congress that will ACT and MOVE and stop playing politics at our expense.

sjohnt... are you just a trouble making troll? Talk about a reality check... How about a TRUTH in History check ol pal?

sjohnt

eris,

does obama bear responsibility for anything? it seems that according to the left he does not. however responsibility for all of societies ills continues to be heaped on the previous administration by those who would absolve this one of anything and everything.

seems time for a reality check on the left.

And besides press their lips against the buns of the oil companies, as Republicans are doing EVEN NOW what do you think a Republican president would do?

THIRD time.. the Republicans have shot down lifting the liability cap. Because smaller oil companies wouldn't be able to clean up their own mess if they made one and the cap was lifted.

Capitalism... if you can't compete with the big dawgs I guess you don't get to run.

Is it just me or are the Republicans screwing with the spirit of capitalism by behaving like socialists?

That's right. Cheney is the one who allowed the drillers to go without a backup and in the last few days the Democrats have voted to lift the cap on how much BP/drillers have to pay when they do what is happning now in the Gulf and all three times the Republicans voted it down. They will rot in hell for this.

And might I add, since the Repubs voted this down, after a mere 7 mil is paid out, guess who has to pay the rest? WE DO. Vote every Republican out who voted this down. Make them pay.

hmmnm, you are correct, this is the first i have heard of the casing eroding; if it is correct, then there is nothing they can do; except the relief well in about 90 days; if the casing goes before the relief well can get in; then the amount of oil will increase several fold; I have never heard of a 100 thousand barrel a day well, the pressure must be enormous and the pool gigantic!

Has BP started drilling the relief well yet???

I'm with you, baby turtle.

BP would like nothing better than to turn this disaster over to the White House.

This company is fighting for its corporate life, and, the actions they are taking reflect that.

Total lack of a plan to avert this kind of disaster, total lack of preparedness should the worst kind of blowout occur, and now, an ongoing PR campaign to minimize the scope of the disaster and pass the buck (Obama's responsibility, really).

There is no short term fix to this. None. However, there can be a long term win if this is the last time we let big oil screw us and the environment over.

I also hope that our anger over this kind of criminal behavior by a corporation grows.

From the big auto companies that fought tougher milage standards for cars, to the tobacco giants that denied smoking causes cancer, to the big insurance companies that fought reform tooth and nail, there is plenty of corporate irresponsibility to go around.

Things are way out of wack and profits rule. The tea party says they want to "take our country back."

I want to take my country back, too – but not from some bogus, so-called "liberal elitist socialist conspiracy". From corporate greed and corporate control of our government.

Cafe Laws rules the MPG's per American vehicle built, those which were recently changed in 2009. Before that it was 1987 the last time they were changed. This tells you how long our government has been owned by big oil.

I don't believe the car companies would care whether they tweaked the injection system, cam and rear end to increase mileage and would bet the oil companies played a part in that as well.

That being said " I agree" with taking our country back from the corporations that bought and paid for the Congress & Senate as wellas all the Departments of Interior and the SEC and Wallstreet.

So regardless of your reasoning it's time to vote both sides out as it has failed at protecting the nation from big business.

BP would like to share the blame for the oil spill and otherwise categorize this as an accident. But the truth is, they are accountable, period.

The Republican Party, too, would like to share the blame for the corporate takeover of our government. But to be fair, while the Democratic Party is not lilly white in this regard (far from it), it is primarily Republican members of the house and the senate who have, for decades and decades, sided with big business.

They gave auto the votes it needed to crush responsible CAFE standards, they were the ones helping big oil try to beat the ban on offshore drilling, they were the ones trying to block lawsuits against big tobacco, they were the ones (with the exception of a handful of Democrats) who almost totally derailed healthcare reform.

The Chambers of Commerce and American Petroleum Institutes of the world love Republicans and hate Democrats FOR A REASON.

I do believe the Democrats share the blame with Republicans for the lack of oversight with respect to Wallstreet. However, it is the Republicans who are now trying to weaken financial reform, no?

The worst thing we can do is "vote both sides out". That's the wave that political celebrities like youbetcha Sarah Palin and conspiracy nitwit Michelle Bachman are riding. That's what gives the ridiculously baseless "birther" movement it's power. Citizen frustration that doesn't care who gets in office as long as it's not the people who are now there.

We'd better be careful here. We'll end up electing individuals who make us feel better ... until they try to run the country.

+1

Thank you, make progress, for a calm, logical, articulate post that I can agree with. You've said it so well that I have nothing to add.

Cadillac just introduced a 556HP battle cruiser that gets 6mpg. Good job, men!!

bsbush.. shame on you for name calling. Guess you are unfamiliar with the COH.. No different than using the N-word, Cracker, or any other derogatory name for any race of people. Most folks of all races are blinded, hearing-deficient when it comes to game playing politicians.. that is their role, after all, lie lie lie...Don't go calling the people derogatory names just because they got led to slaughter. How's your hometown, state doing? Mine sucks!!!! and I'm a middle of the road, TRUTH seeker!!!!

We like Mary Landrieu just fine still. Pretty obvious much of her campaign contribution dollars would come from oil based revenues anyways. Total economic impact of the oil industry to the Gulf states is around $125 billion annually. Mary Landrieu acts for the largest part with the best interest of this state at heart. That is probably the reason why even many right-leaning voters (like myself) will support her.

I would though like you to cite the exact time and date she has said anything about not fining BP or making sure they don't adhere to regulations. Apparantly my Cajun Coonass ears missed that at some point in time.

OoAhChi....what the hell are you talking about? Cajun and Coonass are not derogatory at all. Every Cajun and Coonass I've ever met were proud to be called one. If you don't live here, don't spout off about things that you know nothing about.

bsbush.....totally agree with ya....how does that woman keep getting elected?!?!? She's as crooked as a dog's hind leg and doesn't bother to even try to hide it.

Voter you are the FIRST person I have ever run across that didn't think Mary Landrieu was a crook and a liar. That's why it amazes me she keeps getting re-elected.

StangSalie, better the crook and liar you know (Landrieu) than the cheat you don't (Vitter). For all her faults, she gets way more dollars for LA than most other state senators succeed in doing for their states when you look at what this state contributes to the federal coffers and what benefits/returns we receive. Selfish attitude I know, but her effectiveness is really my main support for her.

Oh I'm no Vitter fan either. Frankly....I could do without the majority of Louisiana's politicians.

StangSalie, sadly I feel that way about pretty close to every single elected official in Washington DC these days.

Yet my reasoning with Landrieu was that seeing as I was staring at huge probable tax increases, economic downturns, increased health insurance costs, etc that I might as well try and put a politician in the Senate to represent this state who had the contacts to do some good in bad economic times. I try to vote people into Congress who reflect my overall views and desires for the country as a whole and try to pick and chose a Senator who will best benefit my State. Hopefully next Senatorial election there will be a better slate to chose from.

Running, hahaha whatever. A foreign company's oil rig explodes in international waters and it's President Obama's fault? How so? The fact of the matter is that this is Big Oil's fault and responsibility.

Cracks me up, the neocon scum are always crying that the government is too big, but now they're crying that the government needs to stop the leak, the government needs to seal the boarder, the government needs to win the war, whaa whaa. The Global Oppression Party are so hypocritical it's pathetic.

warnings of a hurricane large enough to overwhelm the levees of new orleans and flood the city were first issued by scientists and the corps of engineers back in the '70s. nobody did anything.

hurricane katrina came along and, although for the most part bush was not blamed for the storm itself (however some of the loony lefties did) he was pilloried by the left for his administrations slow and inadequate response. it was, of course, fair game.

even as we all know that the well blow-out event is not the fault of obama, the response of his administration is now fair game for evaluation too. it seems that enough time has passed to begin making those types of evaluations. it appears that the administration did not comprehend the seriousness of the event for far too long and it also appears that once they did, the response was tepid at best until complaints began to mount (much like the katrina incident).

to those who would protest the harsh evaluations of the obama administration in the course of this catatrophe i say "what goes around comes around". those with opinions from the right (even the wacky ones) are no less entitled now than those from left were then.

deal with it.

sjohnt, hahaha whatever. A foreign company's oil rig explodes in international waters and it's President Obama's fault? How so? The fact of the matter is that this is Big Oil's fault and responsibility.

Cracks me up, the neocon scum are always crying that the government is too big, but now they're crying that the government needs to stop the leak, the government needs to seal the boarder, the government needs to win the war, whaa whaa. The Global Oppression Party are so hypocritical it's pathetic.

re-read the post, nitwit

Penny Wise, in this case, 50 miles offshore is not international waters. I believe the limit is 200 miles, but it depends on the extent of the continental shelf. A coastal nation has total control of economic resources within its exclusive economic zone as well as those on or under its continental shelf. That is why it is necessary for BP (and any oil production company) to have permission to drill at that location.

It's in federal waters....not international.

The international treaties and laws of the sea set 12 miles as the international limit. Any vessel operating further from shore than 12 miles is under the jurisdiction of the nation where it is registered, not the jurisdiction of the nation whose shore is nearest.

Nations are permitted to declare an economic exclusion zone of up to 200 miles from their coast line under a UN resolution on fisheries and mineral exploration, but that does not negate the 12 mile limit for legal control of the seas. The exclusion zone only applies to economic exploitation of natural resources. The exclusion zone is also subject to limitations where there are nations separated by less than 200 miles of open water. In the case of the Gulf, we have Cuba only 90 miles off the US coast. In that case, the size of the economic exclusion zone is half the distance between the two countries.

If the drill site was not within the jurisdiction of the United States, why does BP need leases and drilling permits from the United States?

Pennywise, my comment was metaphorical. The point is that there are indeed certain things that the Fed government should do. This spill has devastating consequences to the environment and the economy. The Fed govt. is tasked with protecting the common good. I saw that the state governor wants to build barrier islands or levees to protect the marshes, oyster beds, etc., but permits to do are being held up for Fed. review. This is a disaster that needs quick response, not studies, lengthy permit reviews, commissions, and hearings.

I am tired of the divisive politics and the lemmings who blindly follow their party leaders just b/c of party affiliation. I am entitled to my opinion which is that the Feds needed to respond and they have done a poor job of doing so. Given the lessons of previous administration and Katrina, the response should have been far better. Our president has done a poor job, is detached, over his head, and bureaucratic. Not the quality I want in a leader during a time of crisis. To quote MSNBC's Howard Fineman: "Technocratic, lawyerly, detail-oriented, bureaucratic: each of these qualities has its value. But they add up to a mess when they sum up a president"

Briwnys, because it falls within the 200 mile Economic Zone. I realize it may seem confusing but reread JohnCarter's explanation and this is actually pretty decent for a Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters

International waters? I got it wrong. Let's blame the UN for their poor response! (I am joking of course.)

Thanks, Voter-in-LA. This area is also within what is called the 'outer continental shelf' - which is defined by a line 60 nautical miles seaward of the foot of the continental slope or by a line seaward of the foot of the continental slope connecting points where the sediment thickness divided by the distance to the foot of the slope equals 0.01, whichever is farthest - in other words, it's a political construct and pretty much encompasses the whole northern portion of the Gulf of Mexico in a line about 9 nautical miles offshore from the tip of Florida across to the border of Texas with Mexico.

Brwnys, correct and actually this whole pissing contest over who controls what is also at the bottom of some disputes that have been brewing between the USA/Oil and Cuba because of Cuba's ventures into horizontal drilling into what are potentially under our interpretations our leases. Ironically, BP was one of the majors arguing that Cuba needed to be stopped because they wouldn't have the resources to control a blowout. Go figure, huh?

Wow! Great link! Unbelievable!

David, what do you mean "they haven't told us yet"? That's simply a capture of the livefeed you can watch at many sites including BP's website, most news stations, some government sites etc.

BTW just so you realize what that plume represents at that timeline (yesterday evening): that was the period when they were pressure testing the BOP for statistical information to be able to provide to the USCG, EPA, MMS etc to ensure that the BOP would be able to withstand the added pressure created by the topkill.

Did BP even stop to think that drilling a hole into a reservoir a mile under the ocean would release the contents of that reservoir at high pressure?

Do you really....seriously think this is the first oil rig to drill that deep? They've been doing this for quite some time. It wasn't where they drilled or what they drilled....it was the inadequate safety precautions, paid off inspections officers and greedy executives that caused this explosion. I agree with your outrage but your theory doesn't hold water. Don't worry about being dependent on foreign seafood....last I heard LA only supplies the US with 25% of the seafood they scarf down. Now the real concern is people from LA having to eat seafood caught some place else! I believe they'll just pass.

Went there and haven't a clue as to what you are talking about so how about enlightening me so it doesn't forever remain a mystery

Sorry - not enough info....scroll down the right column to the photo galleries.

BP employs 30,000 Americans.

Gee - thank heavens for a global market - world economy......

BP will lose a big chunk of their assests very soon. Look at Dow Chemical, Dowell and the Schlumberger that bought them.

Ultimately it is average Joe who is going to end up paying for all this. We can blame anyone we want to or claim that BP is going to pay for this mess but I think everyone knows or should know that we are the ones who are going to pay for this.

I agree with you David in that, the President is going down there because there is a very good chance this isn't going to work and even more, the failure of this could make the spill worse.

If this does happen it is where he needs to be. This is no coincidence.

I agree with someone else... if they thought the chances of this were so good they'd have done it first. They had to have started with what they thought were the best chances and are working their way down.

Ya know, I think you might have something here. I believe they are called "armchair experts" If only life was as easy as they make it sound. We wouldnt have anything to complain about.

If the world would have listened to me in the 70s, we would have cars powered by hamsters on excercise wheels. It would have greatly reduced our need for oil and futhermore, the waste from the hamsters could have been used to fertilize crops.

It's the best idea out there. Can anyone dispute this? If you don't agree with me, you're wrong and don't know anything. My dad can beat up your dad and your mom eats cat poop.

Seriously though, that's all I see on these vines. Too many people are experts in whatever the current topic is. If that's the case, why are they helping? Seems selfish to me.

Not mine. Its on the 9th floor. It'll be just like Venice.

First or ninth floor , your still looking at the spill and so are the ones with potential to buy your property.