Experts: Surge in demand in Asia could wipe out animals
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comIvory trade threatens African elephant
Seeded on Sat May 15, 2010 2:22 PM EDT (msnbc.com)
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These poachers will not stop until there are NO elephants left in the wild at all. The demand has to dry up for them to stop, otherwise this atrocity will continue. There needs to be a controlling entity in place to contain the poachers. They should be given full authority from the government. However, the government is as corrupt as the poachers themselves. Self-interest rules here and it needs to either become extremely painful (monetarily) for the government to take action or it has to be done by force. This has to end, before the elephants become extinct.
I'm so with you Slinger, unfortunately man will not stop destroying the Earth and everything in and on it until there is nothing left to destroy. Perfect example of this atrocity; the gulf oil mess, and as its happening there are people who want to expand drilling. There are alternatives, but hell no, keep drilling. How sad.
Wow, this could be front page news! Humans (everywhere) destroying every other animal on the planet in the name of avarice. Those who wear skinned animals on their body are no better just because mink are not in danger of extinction; all scum who need to be tied to a stake in the path of fire ants. Consider that the number of 'companion animals' are killed & weighed by the tonnage each year most of you have no room to talk; one either has empathy for other species or lacks it. I'm sure there will come a day when many are extinct through poaching, habitat destruction et al...shame we can't nueter most of the planets' humans in negative population growth, we are the worst thing wildlife EVER had the misfortune to exist on the same planet with.
CHINA is the problem, as long as they remain the hole in this world sucking money, wild life, oil, metals, etc. WE will be in peril
uvuvuv
You said "it might become necessary to humanely transport the tribes to the cities for resettlement." WHY? they know wrong from right. They know when the elephants are gone, so is their tribe. Lets give them the same chance that they give the elephants. If we catch you here, we will kill you, rip out your teeth and sell them to China and Japan to carve up.
THEN we actually do it a few times, to show we mean it. Then when some Chineese or Japaneese dealers shows up to claim their victory, DO the same thing to them.
AND keep doing it, until this insanity stops!.
Poachers should be executed, the people that sell or buy ivory should be jailed for life. We should boycott any dealer that sells any form of ivory
Lincoln, regarding China, the oil and metal they "suck up" is used to make things that people all over the world consume. So while the Chinese use things in the production stage, we ALL use them in the consumption stage. We're all "sucking it up." Regarding the ivory, while you or I wouldn't kill an elephant, impoverished people generally can't afford to care about wildlife. The irony is that people need to achieve a certain level of material well being to then have the "luxury" of being able to care about bigger things, such as the environment, but achieving that well being comes at an environmental cost. There are too many people to live an impoverished "slash and burn" mode of living, but there are also too many people for the world to withstand a ubiquitous "rich" lifestyle. Bottom line is there are too many people.
Hey, Pal...In the 1600's and 1700's they were selling their own to the slave market. That's about 400 years of needing to achieve a certain level of material well being. Something tells me there is another problem here.
As a environmental scientist who understands that biological diversity is the life-blood of the planet I decry the demand from rich Asians for many products such as ivory, Rhino horn, Tiger penis etc... These people should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. While I can't condone poaching, I can understand the economic forces that turn extremely poor people into poachers. As long as there are people willing to pay, there will be poachers.
I once read a paper dealing with a project that involved tranquilizing elephants with tusks in order to remove their tusks and thus save their lives from poachers. Does anybody out there remember this project and have data on the results? I have to wonder how this project effected group dynamics within the herd.
I'm talking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If their immediate needs were being met, they might care about the elephants for more than their ivory. The behavior is a symptom of the problem to which you're referring. 400 years ago, trading slaves was acceptable behavior, as was killing elephants, and both persist to this day.
It would seem to me, a decent, ethical person could abandon the joys and ecstasies of bling and tinsel to save a highly intelligent, magnificent being. What a human mind and conscience so utterly void of everything that spells what it means to be a human being and possessing a higher level of consciousness and a sense of mercy and righteousness.
Ivory??? Human garbage???
Yes, Skor. It is unconscionableto me too. I don't care how difficult it is to control the Ivory trade. They better do something to remedy the problem and but fast and furious, or there will be no more majestic, highly intelligent elephants left on this planet. Some people really lack any humanity and definitely have no souls. We will all pay for this in the end, so we better all band together.
Man kind could never come togther we never have. The Chinese government must wake up and understand what destruction they are doing to our planet. If you can find someone to do that then maybe the elephants and our planet might have a fighting chance. Until then do we go fight the China man? The whole planet is at risk if we keep sitting on our heels and think that we have done nothing wrong. We all need to wake up and realize what we have done and are doing!
why should i care about elephants! what have they ever done for me??
Hello, Elephants are biological diversity. If it were not for biological diversity, you would not have water, oxygen releasing, a life-supporting atmosphere, the nitrogen cycle, the hydrological system, food, a life-giving soil, purification of air and water, climate regulation and a long list of life-gifting systems, cycles and functions. Why?
Because biological diversity or native animals and plants, are the living components that fuel the Earth's ecosystems, all the reasons you exist.
yea i know - i was just being stupid.
Elephants are beautiful, majestic creatures. If they all die, we won't have anything to watch when we go to the circus.
Hello, try on oxygen, water, food, the air you breathe and life. Then your life will be the greatest show on earth. Gotit!!!
We should shoot the poachers on sight, along with anyone who buys from them.
The wildlife officers in Africa does that.
My thoughts exactly.If they don't respect the life of other animals why should we respect theirs?
The Asian countries will be responsible for the eradication of many species we know today. Their habit of eating anything and their superstitious medical practices will destroy whales, sea horses, bears, elephants, etc, on and on, because they don't care and there are so many of them demanding goods the planet cannot sustainably provide. The end result will be our own famine, loss of all natural resources and pollution beyond our wildest dreams. This ain't doomsday-prediction, it's real.
You are right and all of this is predicted in the Holy Bible. Not trying to start a religious argument, just stating what I have read in my Bible. Mankind is a greedy lot which will be Earth's downfall.
Just, we haven't even considered the scientific angle to this atrocity. The elephant is biological diversity, a life-giving, community member of this African ecosystem. Science compares the extinctions of all biological diversity as a threat to man's existence and civilization, second only to thermonuclear war. This awesome and beautiful animal is a strand in the web of all life, including man's only web.
Killing ecosystems and pushing biological diversity extinct is as dangerous for man as it gets. Now, we are discussing oxygen, the atmosphere, the climate, fresh water and freedom from man killing pandemics. When man kills biological diversity, he kills his only lifelines to the world as man currently knows it. And, the more the individual knows about the science of ecology, the more terrifying it becomes.
Wasn't it Chief Seattle who said, how lonely man will be without the beasts.
msfixit,
Unfortunately the bible tells people to "be fruitful and multiply". That may have been a good idea a few thousand years ago, but it is now tantamount to racial and environmental suicide. The bible also encourages mankind to use whatever he can of the earth's resources. I believe the word is dominion. How presumptuous we humans are! We should be working with the planet rather than against it.
Absolutely, cj. You are scientifically correct. The number one issue facing the Earth and mankind is Zero Population Growth. The bible failed to educate mankind as to all the reasons man exists. I guess God didn't want the Earth to stay living and support the very existence of mankind. Maybe, that God drank polluted and filthy water. Your guess is mine.
And we think man is an advanced creature. The final consumer should receive the highest penalty. The poor African native sees the elephant as a competitor as well as a bank account. We did the same thing here with the buffalo.
You're absolutely correct, the Native Americans killed the buffalo for it's meat, and it's coat to keep them warm in some of the harshest winters known to man on the frontier, but, along comes the white man, who killed hundreds of thousand of buffalo, only for their coats, leaving them rotting in the fields.
Mos, you are so correct. No extinctions can be attributed to the Native Americans. The frigid and vicious winters killed more bison than the Indians; however, Pres Grant gave the order to slaughter each and every bison in America to starve out the Plains Indians.
All but six babies did fall extinct. However, some ranchers with vision, bought the six babies from an Indian and gave them shelter on their ranches. These little babies became the Yellowstone Herd. I have a few books in my library I could never finish because they seared my soul. The history of this nation's oldest mammal I could never finish; it was so painful and hideous. How could a people be so heartless, so without compassion and mercy.
However, several species did go extinct in the USA, the wood bison and one other specie of bison.
skor,
Correct, the buffalo were exterminated in an attempt to get rid of the Indians. This was a deliberately planned attempt at genocide.
You are so correct, Cj. Did you realize, the USA genocided twice as many Native Americans as Hitler killed Jewish??? The most desecrated were the Californian natives. Tribe after tribe were obliterated, and no peoples of the Earth were more ecologically astute. They were the masters of the science of ecology.
The African governments should start shooting first and asking questions later. And someone should start a boycott of chiona over this outrageous poaching!!
take this human garbage and put a large bounty on their funchin teeny tiny little shrunken heads dead or alive. this is the epitomy of human garbage and scum,bottom of the gene pool.i wouldn't think twice to put a bullet right where it counts, collect the reward and laugh all the way to bank.
this is just the opposite reaction of the money they are collecting on these poor animals tusks.i hope these people all rot in hell, because i don't even think hell wants this garbage.i hope they rot somewhere maybe out in the sun like those pitiful elephant carcuses.
all sound vicious? you bet your @ss it's vicious. these people are in furiating!
i
gloria fabiaschi. I am with you 100%, it makes me mad as well. We wont be satisfied until there is nothing left on this Planet in the wild animal World.
The Japs are doing a pretty good job on the Whale population as well, it's sick.
Bo Bo i just don't get these idiot people.i just get in a rage.it's just not fair to the animal life on this planet. it's such beautiful planet and these freaken pieces of crap do this carnage just for money. when i saw that picture of them carving up that elepnhant i went balistic. i am extremely tough but not to point of what i wrote here that's not me. but in this case i will make an exception. this barbarism and stupidity has got to stop. shame on the Japanese, for decimating the whale population. then they wonder their country can't get it together every 50 or 60yrs. i admire them for certain things and despise the people involved decimating the whale population. them and every other barbarian population that takes part in the carnage like this.they should all be held accoungtable. every last one of them.
I agree with your sentiments gloria. Due to the deforestation that is rampant in Africa, elephants are increasingly invading villages and pissing off the indigenous population. Many natives feel that they are at war with the elephants. This is not an effort to condone poaching, It is an effort to understand the dynamics of the situation. Just shooting the poachers will not resolve the problem. There are many more starving Africans than there are elephants. The demand side of this equation needs to be addressed in a lethal manner. Impalement by tusk would seem to be a fitting determent if seen live on T.V. and the web.
I applaud the efforts of Sea Shepherd, Greenpeace, WWF, Sierra and all others who strive to protect biological diversity on the planet.
It's simple. Make it a shoot on sight offense to possess ivory newer than 30 years old. Allow for fines of up to 5 million bucks for end customers. Seize their property. Post their pictures, particularly if they are businessmen, so they can be ruined and their families subject to ridicule. This trade is unnecessary.
And yet, in countries like Zimbabwe, Namibia, and South Africa where highly regulated hunting of elephants is allowed, there are more elephants than they know what to do with. It is a simple fact - get the populace invested in protecting the animals for their value to rich hunters and the species will flourish, injecting a lot of money into the local economy as well as the coffers of the Conservation departments of those countries. I saw excellent examples of this when I was in Africa. The government had willing partners amongst the locals who would turn in poachers or guard against them, since they knew they would gain more economically from the hunters and tourists. Kenya, unfortunately, banned hunting back in the 1970s and they have been steadily losing many species of animals ever since. Very sad.
Eric-1655678
+1
This article is somewhat misleading as it focuses on only a couple countries in Africa. Elephants are actually doing quite while in the most southern parts of the continent. Populations are growing, sometimes at the expense of the habitat, in Namibia, Botswana, South Africa and Zimbabwe. There are an estimated 130,000 elephants in Botswana alone. I have spent some time there and elephants were a daily sight and showed little fear of humans.
If you kill a creature of the planet without reason or purpose there is a wrong and a crime. If you trade or create a product or a work of "art" from a protected creature, it is a wrong and a crime. If you participate in the demand for a product or a work of "art" from such a creature, it is a wrong and a crime. Period. The end.
It's ineffective to force a limitation on a product that is in demand. It just raises the price for the product, which encourages more dangerous criminals to participate in the trade.
A better solution would be to develop an artificial alternative to ivory.
Actually, Science, there is a nut, and I can't remember the name, but I have seen this used for artificial ivory jewelry. It was beautiful to me, very creamy and ivory colored in appearance. I would guess other substitutions could be found as well.
For jewelry, this substitution worked very well.
Actually, uvuvuv, I think they are beautiful, smoother and creamier than ivory.
I have made a few knife hafts of ivory micarta and it seems to be a fairly accurate substitute. It compares favorably to the real thing in looks, feel, strength and aging characteristics.
Seems all decent people are disgusted and angry at the demise of these and other fabulous creatures. The problem is the relatively few who don't care and don't mind contributing to their demise if the reward is big enough.
The world has to decide whether we will to accept the extinction of these animals, or take drastic measures to stop it. Executions, long prison sentences, etc. should be imposed.
I am generally an optimist. However, I'm afraid society and the world community will not do what is necessary to prevent these creatures from disappearing from the wild.
Out of sight, out of mind. Can any of you actually say that this topic was on the top of your minds before reading this article? Who will keep it there when there are so many environmental problems to deal with on the planet?
CJ, we that care about Holy Creation and the fate of the Earth, need to pass the word, that man is not an island unto himself, that what befalls the fate of the Earth, befalls the fate of mankind. Mankind is inextricably connected to the web of all life. Mankind is as dependent upon the fate of elephants as he is to oxygen, water, food and the air man breathes. It isn't magic and voodoo man exists; it is elephants, the birds of the air, the fish of the seas, the trees of the Earth, and the little guys, like frogs and lizards.
We are alive because, like all other life, we belong to the Earth.
The war being waged on illegal African elephant ivory, is about as successful as the war on drugs in America. Busting the drug dealers on the corner, or the poachers in the jungle will stop nothing. What needs to be busted are the BIG MONEY people who profit from both these endeavors, but, that would probably rile some very rich, very powerful, people.
Follow the money, people, not the product.
There used to be a high demand in the United States for ivory also. It would seem that Americans have a way of stepping up to the plate to protect these endangered species. Now if we could just get all of the scum of the earth Americans using illicit drugs to quit this nasty habit as well, perhaps we could do away with the drug cartels in Mexico as well. If there wasn't the demand, the supply would go away. Come on American drug abusers...step up to the plate for THIS cause also.
As far as drugs go, it's not the demand, it's the fact that they are illegal that causes all of the problems. Make drugs legal and the crime will go away. Studies show that the demand will also decrease. Who can figure human nature?
As long as thre is a growing population of poor people without a future, there will be ivory poachers. As long as there are wealthy people driving up the demand, there will be ivory poachers. China is the big problem here. They just can't turn down the supply of ivory for carvings. I guess death isn't a strong enough deterant to people from doing such atrocities to such magnificent creatures like the elephant.
It saddens me that we as humans bring such destruction to the world's wildlife. But the irony is that when organized hunting IS allowed, the species flourishes much like ERIC1655678 stated in his comments. The only way to stop it is have swift, and violent retribution to anyone in the supply chain.
If you can make a buck on it that's what its all about, the government is going to end up with every thing you own anyway. I see it as none of our business keep out of every little problem on earth and worry about America. I see it as one less thing for me to worry about. Next it will be a chicken shortage who cares, get over it already. I would try to care less but I cant.
It's funny how fast someone starts caring when the animals on this planet start becoming extinct. Have you ever bothered to check the list that they have tracking how many species become extinct every year? It would surprise you. Maybe you will start caring when your children don't even remember what an elephant was or a tiger......
Maybe it'll matter when there's a human shortage.
Frank you are an absolute heartless degenerate! You have no compassion for the noblest animal on the planet... Elephants out rank humans and there is no contest.. Humans are the worst thing to happen to this planet... and you are among the worst... cold hearted bastard!
I am sure you have never loved an animal or anything besides your miserable selfish self! The world would be better off with out people like you in it!
stand,
Unfortunately, a human shortage won't be happening anytime soon. Over 6.5 billion now and rising. We have reached saturation with no end in sight.
Kill poachers on sight.
exactly!
If the countries where there is a market for this don't do something to stop this, there should be international sanctions. Yes, even against China. And yes, poster, above, draconian penalties for poachers. The loss of these noble beasts would be an incalculable loss to our humanity.
I agree with "just-passin-thru"...the market for East Asian folk medicines is decimating species worldwide. China is the worst culprit. They have absolutely no concern for the natural world. Bears are harvested for their gallbladders, tigers for their penises, turtles for their shells and seahorse populations are being wiped out (only a few examples) to feed insatiable Asian superstitions. It's time that the world calls out Asia on this and brings them under control.
Science, you forgot rhinoceros. Years ago, I talked to an animal keeper at one of the most famous wildlife parks. This person had "kept" many different species, including elephants and gorillas. I asked him what his favorite animal to take care of was at the park. He looked at me with eyes that were close to crying, eyes clouded over with painful thoughts and said rhino's.
Absolutely agree! Their stupid superstitions and appetite for things that have been medically proven to be nonsense... just so they can feel masucline??? Please ....
ALL POACHERS SHOULD BE KILLED ON SITE! ALL TRADE IN IVORY BANNED PERIOD! WHAT'S OBAMA DOING ABOUT THIS.... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING .. BUSH DIDN'T DO ANYTHING EITHER .... WE HAVE NO LEADERSHIP AND IT SICKENS ME!
rosewine1
rose try and calm down. Look if you really boil it down this poaching has nothing to do with the USA, it is all on the people and countries of Africa to manage their game animals and prevent poaching etc. How about we try to take care of our own messes in the USA before we go dorking around trying to fix everyone else's problems.
how in hell did i not knpow that china is the worst culprit. if it's got a dollar sign $ on it. they'll kill it. hell that government kills everything anyway.everything from soup to nuts.
Asians, especially the Chinese, should be deeply ashamed of themselves for slaughtering rhinos, elephants, bears and other animals because of their moronic wives tales about the healing properties of various animal organs and the making of "art" from endangered animal parts. If there is any place that should have it's products boycotted, it's China for endangering these beautiful creatures.
Yes, Jasper, ignorance is an evil and dark abyss. I try and think of ethics and righteousness like a Native American peoples, who would not kill a porcupine unless the people were starving and without possibility of finding food...because the porcupine was the easiest to hunt and kill...
Man is in the cat bird seat, capable of causing so much death and destruction. It is because of this, alone, that he should be merciful, compassionate and tender with all the rest that is so easy to hurt, so defenseless, voiceless and helpless -- that he reveals his true superiority. With strength and power and might, man must carry the heavy load of merciful compassion with a gentle heart and soul.
kill and then hang the poachers and or buyers in trees near where the elephants hang out as a warning. anyone caught with ivory should be shot on sight . no questions asked. the problem is most of the african officals are as bad as the poachers
This is utterly heartbreaking. I agree with the post that this should be front-page news. There should no longer be debates or discussions (on a governmental level as in the article) about whether or not the ivory trade should be allowed. A permanent ban at all levels--subject closed--is needed and it's needed now before it's too late.
The a-holes who do this will never have any mercy on these and other animals, and should be given none themselves. Elephants are so similar to us in many ways, mentally and emotionally, minus the greed and self-absorption that people like Frank at post #16 possess. A woman scientist from Zambia, I believe, did a study showing that elephants suffer from post traumatic stress disorder, too. When their parents were killed right in front of them, the male elephants would act out later in life in their 'teen' years just like the males in her city whose parents were murdered. Elephants mourn their dead. The females stay in groups of mothers, daughters, sisters, and aunts their entire lives, if there's no interference.
Losing elephants from this planet, especially due to human greed (the usual problem), is just more sad than I can possibly express. This is hitting really really hard, even though it's not that surprising.
This is why I hate Asian countries. They are very big on using endangered animals for all sorts of purposes, whether it's bear gallbladders, ivory, etc. They have no respect for animals, only money.
Try watching your kids starve to death, then come back and talk to me abut respecting only money.
Oh, Jer, when the elephants and all of biological diversity start disappearing from your kids' world, your children's world is disappearing. Your kids also require the gaseous composition of the atmosphere, oxygen, water and a stable, regulated climate, plus if the nitrogen cycle were to cease, all the children all over the world would die quickly, and this life-gifting cycle passes from plants to animals...
And, species of biological diversity are also in the business of regulating and checking deadly pathogens in the food chain with your kids, like influenza and other killer pandemics. Your kids are not alive because of voodoo or the tooth fairy. They are alive because of all biological diversity, just like the elephant. Science compares the extinctions of biological diversity as a safe world as -- global thermonuclear war.
Your kids' best friends are the native animals and plants that create, sustain, support and maintain this Earth's ecosystems, now we are discussing the very dynamics of life itself.
I think the point that Jerry was trying to make make was WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO SAVE YOUR CHILDREN FROM DEATH BY STARVATION. Would you kill an elephant? Would you steal? Would you become a prostitute? Don't make judgement calls unless you have been there. It's easy to sit behind our computers in our nice houses with our full refrigerators and condemn others who are slowly starving to death. Everybody who has called for the deaths of poachers on this thread should go to Africa and try to survive in the bush for awhile. You may be surprised at what you become.
Tragically, it was the Africans who survived the human voices of the so called civilized man, that spelled the death sentence. The native Africans did not require the European cattle, that consumed their ecosytems or all the trappings of so called civilization, that is the behemoth killing machine of modern man. Africa fell under the death trap because they were forced to engage in modern society. Africa began to die when the Europeans ran down their throats with, their planet, butchering society and worldview.
They introduced, imported the European cows, that stripped the land of all vegetation, which necessitates a drier and hotter climate. They were unable to abide the callings of the so-called, planet butchering, societies of modern man.
All that modern civilized man knows, is how, to butcher, a really good planet. Sadly, how did the Africans survive the milleniums without modern man and his planet killing machine, like the hooved locust that devour the face of the Earth?????
the story goes that elephanta never forget. which means that they have a high degree of intelligence . ivory hunters have an excuse to eliminate elephants for the major worth they have on the scales of worth . in the beasts heads in revelation chapter 13 , rising up out ofthe water , etc . most of those beasts are from africa . some do eat elephant meat in africa . but, the largest beast on the planet , is the whale . both , are in troubles now . satan the accuser as told about in religions . man in his judgement is not exempt. if we are not correct in our maintenence , the war with the beast is upon us .. rev/bible , chapters . 13 , 14 , jonah and the whale in israel now ? our jungles , forests , are being burned up . our waters are being burned up . the beast from the sea , and , the beast from the earth in the apocalypse . whale bones , ivory , and , their meats will not pay for mans mistakes , and , greed in maintaining the balance of the planet . that is the reason that the war promised in rev/bible is allowed .. read this yourself . the grey whale is now in the med's ocean waters in front of israel .. sticking his head out of the water .. hungry .. stunning the scientist .. many many tikal ? 2012 ?
If you want to see how they live and behave in nature watch the Documentary Nature: Echo of the Elephants(2005) NR. You will look at elephants differently therafter. They are committed to their family, and have despair as great as humans when tragedy strikes. This documentary follows a Matriarch elephant named Echo and her family of sisters, children, and relatives... It is an eye opening documentary about the lives of this family during times of draught and tragedy within the family. This documentary continues in sequence over the course of Echo's long life. Its very good.
Just like the bears in National Parks being hunted for gall bladders and the tigers being hunted and killed for their parts. This is a crime that is ages old and it will continue as long as there is a market for the parts. What a shame to lose such magnificent animals.