Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?

Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.

- Ovid

buzz, don't tell me you are a birther too?? You do know that even the conservative talk show hosts are telling you to shut up because you are making them look stupid.

lock this traitorous piece of crap up. after he serves his time, give him a dishonorable discharge.

JBird, did you say the same thing about the lieutenant that refused to go to "W's illegal war?" Should have shot him on the same grounds, right?

Being a natural born citizen doesn't neccesarily mean you were born in this country. Even if he was born over seas, his mother is a citizen which means he is a citizen. I was born overseas but i am a citizen and always have been.

I agree with jbird. We should start back up the firing squads for those who refuse to follow the commanders orders. Where does this idiot get off not wanting to follow his legitimate orders handed down to him? He's a coward in my book! I bet he was one of the first in line to go to Iraq when G.W. Bush lied to him and the American public about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction. It seems to me that all those right wingers out there have a short memory when it come down to those who have held office and outright lie to the public only to further their own agenda. Do we need another Bush/Chanely era before we all open our eyes?

Well this officer just threw his career away for nothing. But of course he is a doctor and will have no trouble getting a job. I personally think he just doesnt want to go to Afghanistan, like the Fort Hood shooter.

I'm not going to call him a coward since he at least has put on the uniform (although he has disgraced it now), but what the Army should really do is, stick his ass in a cell when they're done with the Court-Martial and force this pud to watch highlights of a video from the night Obama won the Democratic nomination to the day of the Presidential Inauguration, ala A Clock Work Orange. Just loop it all day long!

Geeeshhh!! Will this never stop. The Republiicians are just sore losers and can't get over the fact they lost. What a bunch of cry babies. It has been proven that he is a natural born citizen period. Get over it already!! They should just make an example of this guy and throw the book at him.

bmx, EXACTLY right! Birthers seem to have forgotten that anybody born to a Citizen anywhere on the planet was at least previously considered 'natural born.' Else, children born to American military stationed overseas wouldn't be eligible to run for President and that includes John McCain.

The problem is that 'natural-born' isn't explictly defined in the Constitution but by convention when I was a kid we were always told anybody born here or born to a U.S. Citizen anywhere was by birthright a natural U.S. citizen (mind you this was taught in schools on military bases so they may have been biased for all I know.)

It will be interesting to track this... could he be fooling all of us and just be using this as an excuse to get out of the Army before his time commitment is up. The Army most likely paid for his medical school - no student loans to pay for. He still has his medical license what does he care if he's dishonorably discharged. I can't imagine that his medical license can be revoked, so the only thing standing in his way is possible jail time.

the address of the foundations that it is a centralized location for a variety of other birther movements and Right Wing foundations, international consulting firms, UAE (consultants), ... (gotta give it to them for coming up with great patriotic names...)

• American Patriot Foundation
• Alliance of National Heritage Areas
• YR Alumni Network
• Innocents at Risk
• Intercom International Consultants
• American Business Council of the Gulf Countries (ABCGC)
• Water Systems Council

etc.... you can do your own research...

jbird: We don't shoot Medal-of-Honor Receiptants. And what branch did you serve in?

Lt. Colonel had not problem cashing his checks though. He did not have any problem with other deployments. So why is this deployement so special?

The man lacks judgement. That he would believe the tabloid trash that comes out of Fox News shows he can't separate fact from political fiction that originates from Rupert Murdock's business model of increasing the circulation of his media properties the same way the National Enquirer does.

Tabloid politics is what is destroying this country. This is a great example. The Republicans have given up on producing legislation in Congress, instead they are being full time 100% politicians running for re-elections and they are using Congress to insert campaigns ads into the media without having to pay for them to be aired. They have decided that repeating the trash that gets Fox viewers will get them voters.

We don't shoot Medal-of-Honor Receiptants

Maybe not, but he certainly deserves 20 years of hard labor at Leavenworth.

Whoopsie Daisy... he didn't win the medal of honor...

Come to think of it, Momus, he did quite a bit more than "put on a uniform." Actually, maybe if he had just taken an auromatic weapon, he could have gone into a hospital & started shooting like the LAST Dr. who didn't agree with this country's stance in Afghanistan!

Tyler: What part of (and I quote) "He is the only active-duty Medal-of-Honor winner in the military." don't you udnerstand?

This Lt. Col. is a p*ss and a disgrace to all our brave men and women in uniform who are risking their lives everyday to fight in Afghanistan. Take his birther right-wing ass to the back and call in the firing squad. :D Make quick work of this traitor.

OK, for all you people who apparently haven't read the article or can't comprehend. the LTC is not the one who has won the Medal of Honor for his service in Vietnam.

Army doctor Lt. Col. Terry Lakinbelieves Obama does not meet the constitutional requirements to be president and commander-in-chief because Lakin believes the president was not born in the United States

Lakin refused to report to Fort Campbell, Ky., for deployment to Afghanistan, but instead went to the Pentagon. There on Monday he was confronted by his brigade commander, Col. Gordon Roberts, and informed he could face court martial, and his Pentagon building pass and government laptop computer were seized.

Roberts is the commander of the medical brigade out of Walter Reed. He is the only active-duty Medal of Honor winner in the military. He received the honor for action in Vietnam.

Now the question I would like to ask this LTC Coward is; Why did you wait until you received orders for Afghanistan? Since he's a doctor, let me put the answer in it medical terms. Chicken-s-hiteitis!

Obama is our President. Respect the office if not the person.

Bush was our President and he wasn't fairly elected, but we supported the office of President.

Yes, treason is a very serious crime. Bigotry isn't a crime, but should be. If you don't like living in our Country, move to one you will enjoy.

lock this traitorous piece of crap up. after he serves his time, give him a dishonorable discharge.

Should he be locked up next to this guy?

Bevis - Tyler is correct - (from the article) "Roberts is the commander of the medical brigade out of Walter Reed. He is the only active-duty Medal of Honor winner in the military. He received the honor for action in Vietnam."

Julie - you beat me to it!

there are better hills to die on

Should he be locked up next to this guy?

if he disobeys orders, yes. rules are rules.

This is a stunt, and quite frankly he's embarrassing himself and his uniform. It's really not up to him to decide if the President's authority is legal, that power comes with the office. By all means as an officer question an individual order's legality based on the rules we use to conduct our wars, current law, and ultimately our Constitution, but the authority of the President to issue them is quite frankly beyond his ken.

V Bevis

what part of your post #1.23 - don't you understand is completely wrong?

Lakin (as Tyler said) is "not a CMH winner"...the officer he reported to -Roberts - is!

have a nice day with that big bowl of crow!

Not following an illegal order is not treason. In fact, after incidents where service members have followed 'illegal' orders and it has been found out, the service members have been prosecuted and found guilty. (Abu Grahaib, Mi Lai in Vietnam come to mind). He will have to prove that the orders were illegal, which he may or may not be able to prove, but I do think that there is a smoking gun in this case. There are too many inconsistencies in Obama's own admitted history, else why has he sealed his records?

jbird; don't be an idiot

the guy's insane, as are all the rest of the birthers. his mind has been destroyed by right wing hysteria. he needs treatment and orders to refrain from listening to talk radio; and probably a medical discharge due to delusions.

Should he be locked up next to this guy?

No. He should be shot next to that guy.

Don:

Lakin is NOT a MOH recipient. His commanding officer(Roberts) is the MOH recipient. The article describes Roberts being an MOH recipient, directly after a sentence about Lakin(so many assume Lakin is the MOH recipient and Vietnam vet)

I looks like even even the military has ignorant right wing birthers.

Most of you people make me sick. You have no dreaming idea of the courage and character this man must possess. He is the ONLY active duty military member to win the Medal of Honor - an award given only about 3400 times since 1861 for acts of extreme bravery and heroism. Now he has the moral courage to stand up for what he believes in, in the face of what he knew would be massive publicity and ridicule,(not to mention court martial) and all you people can do is spout the propaganda that you are fed by the media and say he should be shot. He has more honor and bravery in his little toe than any ten of you xbox war game civilian soldier wannabes have combined. As for the birth cert - show everyone the original document - what is so freaking hard about that? Case closed.

Tammy go back to whatever planet you're from. Obama's records have been release several times. It is only recently that the State of Hawaii has refused to acknowledge these frivolous requests for records on the grounds that the State will go bankrupt trying to meet them all. What birthers are doing to Hawaii is the same thing as a denial of service spam attack does to a server. They clog it up with crap and it stops working. Hawaii has every right, especially given the frivolous and deluded nature of these requests, to stop honoring them.

jasfox -

have you ever applied to a college after briefly living out of state? You can be a citizen of a state for your entire life and if you move out of state just once in the year prior to enrolling you are required to pay out of state tuition fees. The same rule applies for foreign students. It's very unfortunate and it sucks, but don't blame him, blame the crumby way these colleges try to frisk you for every penny you have.

No loss.

Will probably end up as a "claim-denier" for an insurance company...

Sorry Don. I posted before reading your next post.

My post should be directed at V. Bevis

Birthers believe that if you can spell "Indonesia", you are not a US citizen.

Secondly, Many of you are saying that Lakin is a Medal of Honor, and he is a real hero. Wrong! Read again without too much emotions attached to it. Its actually the commander who confronted him.

ThinkHard-1301600 - post 1.38 and others - Try reading hard!

Roberts is the commander of the medical brigade out of Walter Reed. He is the only active-duty Medal of Honor winner in the military. He received the honor for action in Vietnam.

How can you be so stupid and be a colonel...These birthers are idiots and I am a card carrying republican. Get over it already, the guy is our President and therefore commander in chief. You nut cases are the reason we lost the election. I am tired of your insanity...if you don't like the way it is here move the hell out and let us regain our true party. A party of conservative minded, honorable peoples, not fruitcakes filled with hate and bigotry.

According to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, you are required to disobey unlawful orders. If, and I say if, it turns out that Obama is not a "natural born citizen" then he has wrongfully attained the rank of Commander in Chief, thereby making all his "orders" unlawful.

What I find interesting is that now Obama's birth certificate should be able to be called into the court via Discovery. At least that way, the argument will be over. One way or the other.

Once yet again, Don Smith plays the race card in his first post. I get tired of seeing him do that.

Someone isn't "Thinking Hard" enough. Try using decent reading skills and look where it says Roberts NOT Lakin, is the MOH recipient and Vietnam vet.

Obama did not produce a birth certificate, he showed a copy of an unsigned certificate that anyone can get in Hawaii. He could settle this with one signature to release the original signed birth certificate. Point 2, If he was born in Kenya, and his father is not an American citizen, he is not an American citizen by the law in force at the time of his birth. Unless they want to make the law as written today retroactive to before he was born, The anointed one would be a British subject, just like his father. Why not just present the original signed certificate and let everyone move on? As for Col. Lakin, he has more courage and conviction than our appoligist in cheif could ever have. At least he stands up for the Constitution, whether he is right or wrong.

Regardless of whether there is any merit whatsoever to the lame brained assertions of birthers, this troop is disobeying orders that come directly from his commander, not directives from the Commander in Chief.

Clearly a court martial is in order for this nitwit, apparently whatever his role was in 'Nam that earned him the Medal of Honor also left him missing part of his gray matter. That would be the part that tells any reasonable person that if there were one shred of credible evidence that Obama wasn't qualified due to not being a natural born citizen, Hillary's campaign would have uncovered it long before the primaries and each and every Republican candidate who thought they had a shot at the Republican nomination certainly was investigating Obama's true origins as wel much less the McCain campaign once Johnny got the nomination. Ad of course there have been a significant number of right wing whack job talking heads who hav put out rewards for information and no doubt done some extensive investigating of their own over the last several years because let's face it, if any of those whack jobs were to find actual evidence that were to lend any serious credibility to the claim that Obama is not Constitutionally qualified by reason of his birth, then the wingnut making such a discovery would be immediately seated at the head of the table of all the right-wing nut jobs and tin hatted dipwads.

bud, Obama's a citizen and the president, and you and Larkin are delusional. Why should anyone placate a bunch of delusional right wing-nuts, much the POTUS?

Yes- I read what I wanted to read not what the facts were - Roberts is the MOH winner. I still commend the man for having the conviction to make a stand for what he believes in. Still takes incredible courage. Still think he should show the original.

Really....this BS again???

We havent shot someone for failing to follow an order for a long time. Hell in 2007 we couldnt convince the candy coated Army judges to give a deserter more than six months in jail, let alone a dishonorable discharge. This man is a Field Grade officer. He should be court martialed to the full extent of the UCMJ.

OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!.........Oh wait that's the Queen of Hearts that says that....

Anyway what a complete idiot! And I am so tired of giving these mentally challenged birthers anymore time or breath to argue their juvenile claims. I am not listening to your tantrums any longer, birthers........go to your room! Send this guy to the poky.

Watch and learn:

Michelle Obama ADMITS that Kenya is Barack's HOME COUNTRY

"When we took our trip to Africa and visited his HOME COUNTRY IN KENYA..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=proi6NFdKVs

The elite are laughing so hard at ALL OF US!

And here is a 2004 News Article titled:

Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate

http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

What makes me think you wouldn't have suggested that when George Bush was in Command? At least he was a natural-born citizen who could 'prove' it if he had to, and he also had military knowledge and experience. Besides, real military will tell you that most of us have absolutely no respect for Obama as 'Commander in Chief.' He is nothing but a blip in history, elected because his timing was right, not because he was the best-qualified or right choice. A token. I'd be embarassed if I was him. I don't care if you're green, blue, or purple...if you are not qualified, you do not deserve the job. In the military, we are all GREEN, and he is not a qualified military commander-in-chief.

And who was the "Original Birther " ??....Why it was none other than Hillary Rodham Clinton, during the Primary Campaign. It was her "dig up dirt" Division that first put this out. But by then the Media had already latched on to Obama....and paid no attention to her.....They buried it along with any questions about his college transcripts, Law Journal articles. Nobody ever remembers going to class with Obama....either that or they've been instructed to "hush-up"....

Frankly I think Buzz must have been talking about Bush...

ThinkHard-1301600

Most of you people make me sick. You have no dreaming idea of the courage and character this man must possess. He is the ONLY active duty military member to win the Medal of Honor - an award given only about 3400 times since 1861 for acts of extreme bravery and heroism. Now he has the moral courage to stand up for what he believes in, in the face of what he knew would be massive publicity and ridicule,(not to mention court martial) and all you people can do is spout the propaganda that you are fed by the media and say he should be shot. He has more honor and bravery in his little toe than any ten of you xbox war game civilian soldier wannabes have combined. As for the birth cert - show everyone the original document - what is so freaking hard about that? Case closed.

ThinkHard - obviously thinking hard is hard for you as is reading comprehension. To paraphrase you - read the article - what is so freaking hard about that.

Also Obama's birthcertificate has been proven valid. So STFU

Paul- Refusing to go to an illegal war because not only is it wrong but against international law, and on the other hand refusing to deploy because you steadfastly refuse to recognize your commander in chief as such, are two entirely different things. The second is much more treasonous, and deserving of a bullet in my book.

Nice angle Mr. Lakin. But you took an oath to protect us. More importantly, you are a doctor and will be treating those who REALLY put their lives on the line for my wife, my children and me.

Now get to work!

Jbird. Why does Michelle state that Kenya is Baracky's home country? See Utube video.

This man’s action borders on treason in a time of war. I believe the penalty for treason is a firing squad.

this guy should know better. when you sign up for the armed forces, you dont have the right to say no anymore. you do as youre told, end of story. the funny thing is that he should have said no when bush started this fake war. i would have given him his kudos then. this whole obama birthplace thing is getting redundant.

He is disobeying commands from his commanding officer(s), which will probably land him in prison for a few months and a discharge. He can think what he wants about Obama. The war in Afghanistan was started by Bush AND Congress in 2001 as part of Operation Enduring Freedom. All we are doing is ramping up the troop level to get rid of the Taliban. Sorry, the Afghan war is not new so he knew what he was in for. I applaud anyone who speaks up for what they believe no matter how misguided I think it is. However, refusing to go is failure to follow a perfectly legal command and live up to his end of the agreement.

Good Luck-1524703 ( & other giddy birthers),

See this link:

http://poedpatriot.blogspot.com/2010/04/michelle-obama-says-when-we-visited-his.html

As you will see, Michelle Obama was referring to Barack Obama's ROOTS. You know: just as some Americans whose ancestors lived in Ireland before immigrating to America refer to their "home countries" as Ireland.

BTW-The large number of regressives who misread this article to conclude that Lakin is a MoH winner speaks volumes about why regressives have and perpetuate so many falsehoods.

Ian - I was searching for that same thing, it seems like such an obvious thing, like you said, Americans of European descent frequently refer to those countries as the mother country or whatever, especially if they have a parent who was actually a citizen.

Not to mention his status is not determined by what someone says, but by the FACTS. He was born in a Hawaiian hospital to an American mother. What is so hard to understand about that? He's lived his entire life with that being true and never made any statement to the contrary, ever. Show one document where he wrote anything else under Place of Birth, which is a question I get asked a dozen times a year, or so.

this dimwit ought to spend his remaining years locked up in a nasty fetid prison with nothing to look at but a picture of Barack Obama, his Commander-in-Chief

Sadigie....Go educate yourself and come back. Total Troll..................

bmx mom-It's not just about being a natural born citizen, you have to actually have been born on American soil to be at that post.

Start shooting toward impeachment for what the commander in chief has done and is doing to this country.

I have to agree with all the bleeding heart liberals here. He is sworn to defend this country, not necessarily the person in office. Someone has to protect those liberals from enemies, foreign and domestic; therefore, we must protect even the morons in this country.

This Lt. Colonel obviously is NOT an American, so deport him or imprison him. President Obama has as much authority as Bush or any other president has ever had. I believe his issue is prejudice is guiding him. He must be a republican tea partier who listens to Limbaugh, Beck and Palin. He should be court martialed, imprisoned and never heard from again.

What is the big deal with producing the REAL Certificate of Birth? Two of our children were born in Hawaii and their Certificates of Birth are not what Obama showed. Our children's certificates show the parents names, age, occupations, and parents place of birth as well as the doctor delivering and the hospital where the delivery occured, date and time of delivery (all, of course, in Hawaii aas the stated place of delivery). So what is the big deal in showing the REAL birth certificate. We had to show the birth certificates for passports, marriage, school. WHY is concealment so important to have put out over $1.7 million so far in preventing release of any papers related to Obama. Who cares if the certificate or any papers state info that may be embrassing as he is the Pres at this point in time. Just release the proper info to erase any doubt that people may have. The SECRECY that is promoted is not good for this Nation and $1.7+ million to maintain this SECRECY is detrimental to any progressive movement in this country (plus we look like fools to the rest of the world when we remain divisive on this issue. JUST RELEASE THE PAPERS (ALL THE PAPERS).

It's not detrimental because 90% of the country doesn't give a @!$%#.

He must listen to Rush Limbaugh religiously. Court Martial his dumbass and be done with it.

Obama claiming to be a foreign student when he applied for college entrance in order to get a scholarship

Debunked.http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

For those who want to see the birth certificate. LMAO

Should he be locked up next to this guy?

if he disobeys orders, yes. rules are rules.

indy - That is exactly the answer I was looking for. You are consistent. When Muhammed Ali decided not to go to Vietnam, he went to jail. This guy needs to go to jail as well, along with the people who didn't recognize Bush as their comander in chief. Obama is the commander in chief - like it or not. He is my president - whether I voted for him or not.

LTC Lakin's numerous awards and decorations include the Army Flight Surgeon Badge, Combat Medical Badge, the Bronze Star Medal, the Meritorious Service Medal, the Army Commendation Medal with two Oak Leaf Clusters, the Army Achievement Medal with one Oak Leaf Clusters, the National Defense Service Medal with Bronze Service Star, the Armed Forces Expedition Medal, the Army Reserve Component Achievement Medal, the Army Service Ribbon, the Overseas Service Ribbon sixth award and the NATO service medal. He has served previously in Honduras, Bosnia, El Salvador, Korea, and Afghanistan.]

NO MEDAL OF HONOR

Getting side tracked: if both state and federal Supreme Court are throwing out the birthers cases, doesn't that ruling indicate that the birthers do not have a case. Since the birthers are continuing to object to Judicial ruling, that would mean that the birthers now oppose to 2 of 3 branches of our governments. Hmmm... what does that make them? idiots, traitors or revolutionists?

I am certain that they will be against the third branch, the Congress, when they realize the Tea Party and the Republicans will not gain majority in both houses in the Nov election.

I think it is about time the Government makes some changes in this Country... When you have crazy like we have using are laws and Consitution against us so they can break our laws and try to do harm to the Politicians and People of our country!!! We are losing our rights to them...

All the birthers have to do is look up the old copy of the Hawaiian newspaper, announcing Obama's birth there. Oh wait, they'll just say Hawaii wasn't a state back then-yet another favorite birther lie!

Not a medal of honor Tyler but definetly a bronze star medal. Of course I would not expect this to be mentioned from newsvine.

3. Criteria: a. The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the military of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

For those who keep saying Lakin won the CMH here is a quote from the article:

Roberts is the commander of the medical brigade out of Walter Reed. He is the only active-duty Medal of Honor winner in the military. He received the honor for action in Vietnam.

Lets keep the facts straight. Tyler pointed this out quite some time ago.

Who, Obama?

This traitor needs to be wrung through the military justice system and 'dealt' with. Swiftly. Now, which one of you traitors want to be next?

When you are in the military you are under the command of the President who is the Commander in Chief. President Obama is your Commander in Chief. Understand?

If not, revolt if you want to. You will be treated as the traitor you are. The military justice system will make short work of you.

And what part of the UCMJ got you out? You DID serve, didn't you?

You know, this guy could credibly be tried for acts of sedition.

...then again, so could all the republicans.

Medal of honor old fool. He's being used by smarter men than he...

You don't question the orders of the President. After all they didn't question the lies of the deserting coward that got us inot this mess to begin with, or did he? So now he has a problem with it? Throw his ass in the stockade for 20 years reduction in rank and loss of ALL pay and allowances. Let's see him start over with a DD on his record when he gets out.

He's sounds so much like the coward gwbush, afraid to go to combat region. Hey wait our socialist gov't paid for his education to be a doctor. Damn a another socialist mistake ....lol lol...what a coward. Send his ass over to the war zone and have him work off what he owes the American taxpayer.

This man’s action borders on treason in a time of war. I believe the penalty for treason is a firing squad.

wuss turned into a f-n commie. treason is punishable by death. hang him,make an example. who is gonna have to take his place??? His wife and children think he is a coward too

Ah.... coded racism takes with a whole new meaning! These guys throw "Constitutional" around like the "F" bomb. This particular mindset of a person wouldn't know the Constitution from Leviticus! He is a traitor to all the Americans he serves - Christians, Muslims, Jewish, Agnostics, Atheists, Buddhists, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Southerners, Northerners, Mid-Westerners, White, Asians, Hispanics and BLACKS! Stick the guy in Leavenworth and through the key away!

No one questioned the orders of GW Bush because there was no question as to his place of birth. Unlike our current Impostor In Chief. Fact may be that he is a natural born U.S. citizen or it may be that he is not. One thing for sure is that with his money and political connections, we may never know the truth beyond a reasonable doubt and we will only know what he wants us to know. At the best we will not know the truth until well after he is gone from office at the worst we will never know and there will always be that shadow of doubt. He cast this shadow of doubt for one of two reasons: (1) He considers himself to much better than anyone else to prove his citizenship and remove all doubt. (2) He is not constitutionally qualified to be POTUS and has the money and political influence to make sure no one finds out the truth for a very long time, if every.

I know that if I were him and were constitutionally qualified to be POTUS I would prove it once and for all and in a public forum and put and end to the so called "birthers." Otherwise there will always to be doubt that he could easily dispel, unless of course the "birthers" are correct?

What shadow of doubt Ernie? Only a handful of crazies believe this, does the President need to placate every nut job in the US?

Ernie, How many times does his birth certificate need to be published before you folks learn to read the d**n thing? He is lawfully our President. Unlike GW with his rigged appointment in office by the SCOTUS, yet no one seemed to object to him playing the war lord dictator. Anyone that puts on the uniform of any of our armed services knows he/she serves at the pleasure of the President. Now, if that SOB objects, he can resign his commission and forfeit his retirement. That jerk has no business in uniform, he is a disgrace to it and our country.

Court Martial!

No he can go on like he is and allow doubt to linger. As much as you and others like you would like to believe that "Only a handful of crazies believe this." There are far more who harbor doubts than you want to admit are out there. All I am saying is that if Obama is really what he claims to be, then stopping the so called "crazies" would seen to be and easy thing to do and he could put this matter to rest once and for all. Until then there will always be those who accept things that they are told is true and those who require proof. Con-men have been praying on those who are easily influenced for centuries and it appears that there are still plenty of victims left to keep them in business.

lovemymeme's, I would hope that you would not sign a contract without reading it just because the salesman tells you everything is ok, or you would not simply give your money to someone who promised a big return with little to no risk, without first checking to see if they are a legitimate business or not. But yet you will accept the POTUS Obama is constitutionally qualified to be POTUS simply because he says he is. To be honest, if the question of his place of birth had not come to question in the first place, probably no one would have questioned it. But the fact is there seems to be a discrepancy as to his place of birth and I for one believe that he should lay the matter to rest by proving it, beyond a reasonable doubt, in a public form. He has NOTHING to lose by doing so and everything to gain. Unless of course the birthers suspicions are correct. If this were a trivial matter that would have no bearing on his right to be POTUSthen I would say the correct course is to ignore it. However this is not trivial matter and anyone with even just a little common sense knows the best way to kill a rumor is when you provide proof beyond a shadow of doubt that you are telling the truth. Meanwhile please feel free to accept everything POTUS Obama tells you as the truth without any doubt, he is after all a Washington/Chicago Politician and a lawyer and we all know they never lie or are deceptive in any way, right?

Firing Squad!

The ridiculous notion from the 'Birthers' is not only passe, it's delusional! Let's get to the heart of the matter and say what the Birthers really mean: they're ticked off because our President is Black. President Obama was born at Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu, HI. Get over it!

Nothing would surprise me about the U.S. Army. The Army is the least conscious and trashiest of this nation's military. Many of whom are merely brainwashed thugs. Doesn't surprise me a twit. A racist by any other name is a brainwashed bigot. "Gollee" if he's black, he can't possibly be an American, duhhhh.

And, after the US of A genocided twices as many Native Americans as HItler killed Jewish, if your skin is as white as the newly fallen snow, you ain't an American as well!!!

This is just a another fool. The President HAS proven he is a natural born citizen, more than once. The Governo of the State of Hawaii, who is Republican, has certified and confirmed his birth certificate, meaning he is a citizen and President of the United States. Its odd that he would serve under a President who only WAS President because the Supreme Court said the country would suffer from a prolonged investigation and because Al Gore agreed. This guy needs to be investigated about his after-hours activites.

This is sad for each American and our country as a whole.

All the bitterness, scapegoating, and outright lies are getting so old and they are having a destructive effect on the USA.

The way the current Republican leadership manipulates those who are unable to think for themselves is as much a danger to the security of our nation as their foreign counterparts who hate our government, too. The "fruits" of their behavior and actions are not impressive.

Where are the responsible Republicans of character? Are they not speaking up because there are no more of them left? Are all Republicans willing to jump on the hate band wagon to get elected- anything to get elected? Even by destroying the essence of our country?

Not one religion in the world sanctions such hate. What does it take to live a life embroiled in such drama? Doesn't it spill over into their families, their communities? How healthy is that? How can they function and be mentally healthy by allowing others to keep them in constant fear and to inflame their angers on a daily basis? At what point will they finally realize that they are giving themselves away to be used? Giving themselves up to be manipulated just like those who fight for our country's enemies allow themselves to be used and manipulated? When will they begin to think for themselves? Or are they even capable of thinking for themselves any more? They rather see the sky falling than buck up and regroup. They rather follow the noisey ones who they know in their hearts are there to make money over country, spinning stories and rumors and telling outright lies - lies proven by video!

If the good people of character - (the ones who can represent the Republican point of view with integrity) - do not speak up, speak out, and call out, then the rest of the world will watch America destroy herself...forget the terrorists, we are doing it to ourselves -from within!

This is 2010 - the 21st Century, not the 1700's. The world has changed so much...and quickly. It is a different world and we must adjust to that to survive. We cannot turn the clock back. We shouldn't want to....we need to be preparing for the future. Utopia by anyone's definition is not real. We have to deal with the world as we live in it, in the 21st Century!

Hey Skor, please enlighten us with your vast store of military experience that makes you qualified to judge the U.S. Army! Tell us how long you served in uniform in the U.S. military. Have you ever been in a life or death combat situation? I could be wrong, but something tells me you never served one day! With an attitude like yours, you probably would not have survived past one day anyway! Racist? Try reading your own post again and look in a mirror! Grow up and get a life!

This is just plain silly.

A birth announcement was made in a Hawaiian newspaper at the time of his birth.

Are the "birthers" going to claim that a fake birth announcement was made in anticipation of running for President when he was born?????????????

Give it a rest.

won the Congress ail Medal of Honor for what? using harsh words on the enemy ?was a fighter at one time Strip of CMH and all pay and benifits reduce to private Not yours to Question why yours are to do or die!

cheapster

What drugs are you using? Your statement is completely incoherent. Either get rid of the drugs or share with the rest of us.

Cheapster - Lakin did not win the Medal of Honor. That was the commander, brigade commander, Col. Gordon Roberts. It is all in the article.

Cheapster: It's "theirs but to do AND die" from Charge of the Light Brigade, Tennyson...get your poetry right if you're going to quote it!

AngieS, I love it when people quote Tennyson. I taught it last week. have you ever heard the recording of Tennyson reading it? It is in bad shape (of course, considering the age), but it is neat to hear Tennyson's voice. He is a bit over-dramatic, but hey, it is his poem. I wish someone would have invented the device sooner. I would love to hear John Keats read his own poetry.

As for the army guy...He is crazy. He needs to be court marshaled for not following orders and can become the poster-child of what happens to those who believe the lies being told concerning President Obama and his birth place.

ernie, you actually imagine that you are an informed citizen who can spot the cons. You stand by all your "American patriots" who are presently engaging in attempted murder, bomb plots, etc. all giving props for the democratic ideals, adding to our freedom of speech and all. What did you have to say about the fact that Cheney, Bush, et al, who never served in combat and in fact went AWOL (Bush, a "regular" drinking buddy and comboy), were so adept at committing our country to a war on false pretenses? No, I expect you lack the courage to challenge your own thinking. I wouldn't be surprised if Sarah Palin became president. After all, so many in America are more interested in the impression of a candidate than whose behind the mask. We have a president who actually cares about our people, about the working class, and about our relationships with other nations...but, he's black. Oops! We're not suppose to bring that up, are we, ernie? Look, if Palin doesn't win in a fair election, I'm sure the Republicans and their allies have the political influence, money and means to get Florida going again. By the way, I don't mean to send you back to school, ernie, but I think the word is "preying", not "praying". But, hey, I don't want to think I'm trying to influence you.

Government officials in Hawaii have confirmed the authenticity of Obama's birth in Hawaii and his U.S. birth certificate. Copies have been provided to the media for the last few years. So exactly what else do you need to prove U.S. citizenship? All of you with a U.S. birth certificate, how do we know it's real and not a fake, no matter what the county or state you were born in says? All the Records Offices across this entire country could have probably faked everyones' birth certificates so we can't really tell who are the "real" U.S. born citizens and who is not. So no matter what, these birthers will choose to ignore all the facts and only believe the repeated lies by their talking bobbleheads about "the" birth certificate. How about if we choose to believe that all of you do not have a "real" U.S. birth certificate? You going to show me a copy? Really.?? What a stupid argument. Give it a rest.

Armed Forces Tea Party Patriot leader Sgt Gary Stein USMC recognizes Obama as the Commander in Chief & openly state they do not support disobeying orders that are lawful

Lt. Col. Terry Lakin & anyone who say otherwise to willingly disobey orders should be court martialed as soon as one can be convened, in the meantime he should be removed from his post -- They are a disgrace to the nation & their uniform

Hey Cheapster, there is no "CMH". Get your facts together. There is a Medal of Honor that is awarded, and there is no "Congressional" in its name.

If, in fact, he goes to court martial.....the result will probably be the same as1st Lt. Ehren Watada (Fort Lewis Stryker Brigade).... MISTRAIL. See following link:

Source: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/302733_courtmartial07ww.html

The court will find no reason to unseal hidden documents, therefore.....MISTRAIL.

Doug,,,, The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor in action against an enemy force which can be bestowed upon an individual serving in the Armed Services of the United States. Generally presented to its recipient by the President of the United States of America in the name of Congress.

http://www.cmohs.org/

Julie and ikie

Uneducated? Ignorant? Are you describing yourself?

Obama refuses to pay $12 for the release of his doctor signed birth certificate. Instead, he pays lawyers over a million dollars to NOT release it. That is ignorant!

Why won't Obama end this charade. He just has to pay $12. A measly $12 bucks. That's all.

Well...he better get his sizes ready for his jumpsuit he will be wearing for the next few decades. At least he is going to jail and sacrificing his career for something he believes in.

Good luck buddy and all the best!

http://www.hahayouredead.net/

"Even Sarkozy knows."

This is a great article.

Fourth, enjoy civilian life you POS.

cutlass,

Actually, he should not be enjoying civilian life for a while. Not until after he is dishonorably discharged after his stint in Ft. Levinsworth several decades from now that is.

Roberts is the commander of the medical brigade out of Walter Reed. He is the only active-duty Medal of Honor winner in the military. He received the honor for action in Vietnam.

Let's see. The Vietnam war has been over for more than 35 years and this guy is still in the military and is only a Col? He may deserve the medal but he doesn't deserve to be on active duty or a commander if he can't get promoted past Col. in his career.

The Lt. Colonel is being court-martialed, according to what I read earlier today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Ray_Roberts a little info but the thinker-318752 doesn't have much experience with the military commanding officers on bases or captains on ships are at the highest bird col.

Its nice to see more people who disagree politically are still polite. Its a refreshing change, from any political viewpoint. It is getting a little bizarre with this 'birther' thing, now a career military officer refusing to obey orders. Wonder if people will ever accept the truth? sheesh

richard-1360372 captains on ships are at the highest bird col.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying the captain of a military ship is a Bird Colonel? Hmmm A ship in the US Navy is not commanded by the Army, Marines or Air Force, it is commanded by the Navy and under the command of a Naval Officer. Depending on the ship, it could be someone with the lower officer rank of Lieutenant to a full Captain. In between, you have Lt. Commanders and Commanders. In fact, to be technical, anyone can command a Naval vessel, depending on its size and purpose, if they are 'given' that command. There are small boats all the way up to Aircraft Carriers, which are ships. Carriers will always be commanded by someone with the rank of Captain. (to make it simple: boats fit on ships, and there is the rank of Captain, but anyone who is in charge of a Naval vessel is the captain, while their rank may be, say, Commander) I know Naval ranks sometimes confuse people, but I didn't realize some people thought the Army commanded Naval vessels. This nutjob is in the A R M Y. Not affiliated with the N A V Y.

Dang, I just reread my post. My father was a career Naval Officer and I even confused myself. lol

ldo they are not listening.

This set a legal precedent.

First Lieutenant (O-2) Ehren Watada.

Watada was charged with missing troop movement, conduct unbecoming an officer and contempt toward officials for comments he made about President Bush.

This included First Lieutenant (O-2) Ehren Watada's concept that Iraq was/is an "Illegal War". Which cannot be further than the truth. Law H.R.4655, 1998, Declaration of Current War At Iraq.

So this guy walks. That is going to depend on the results of an UCMJ Investigation.

Vietnam vet? I'm thinking this guy is pretty old for a mere Lt. Col. The Army should have retired him long ago.

Cynthia-1233995 - Dang, I just reread my post. My father was a career Naval Officer and I even confused myself. lol

The concept of "Branches" for some of us went out the window, when it was realized that Joint US Military Service (InterBranch InterService InterAgency) is more important than Interservice rivalry. As to why instead of using Colonel or Captain we use Grade of O-6. Or in some cases O-6e (e = prior Enlisted/NCO experience, meaning we came up thru the ranks and became Officers (proven Leadership), as hated by those Academy Political Appointees (you get nominated to an Academy thru Political Connections, not based on Military knowledge nor Leadership expertise.)).

ula_ashore - Vietnam vet? I'm thinking this guy is pretty old for a mere Lt. Col. The Army should have retired him long ago.

Where in the article does it say that he is a Vietnam Vet. The Vietnam Veteran is his boss. If you understood about the Medical Service Corps this does not mean that he is "old". He, Larkin, may have been in actual US Military Service less than 12 years with most of that being paid Medical School.

And if you think the US Military has not pulled people off of Retirement, the precedent is the 65 year old.

I think it's rather telling that the people who are so viciously attacking Lt. Col. Lakin got the information WRONG about who was the MOH winner. But then I guess you need to have the attention span and reading skills of at least a 4 yr. old to get it RIGHT.

If he doesn't believe Obama is President... He should be busted down to a Private!!! That way what he thinks doesn't matter... Just send him to the front to fight with the rest of the Military!!!

Which country issued his passport when B.O. traveled to Indonesia? In his book, he says he traveled to some countries which the US won't grant citizens travel visas. How's that happen? Is the comedian in chief being truthful in his book? Or did he lie to America again?

she's seen vital records that prove Obama is a natural-born American citizen.

...and I seen a flyin' saucer. There. That proves it....

Imk02 -

Oh, he knows that Obi-Wannabe is Prez. He's just not convinced he's LEGALLY the Prez. And what a command-level Army Officer & a Physician says holds a lot more water than your un-thought-out opinion. And what makes you think he hasn't already been at "the front"? Probability is, he's already done multiple tours, unlike you. Rather quick to judge, aren't you? No matter what, this is going to be interesting, especially if all you Democrat Anarchists are forced to swallow your curses.

This is just plain silly.

A birth announcement was made in a Hawaiian newspaper at the time of his birth.

Are the "birthers" going to claim that a fake birth announcement was made in anticipation of running for President when he was born?????????????

Give it a rest.

While I am not a big fan of Obama, he is the president and Commander in Chief and this gentleman does not have the right to refuse orders. Obama's place of birth was an issue in the campaign and was addressed and answered but unfortunately there still are people who will not accept reality. What is it going to take to resolve this issue in some people's minds????????? I think if God himself came down to earth and said that Obama is a US born citizen there would still be people who would question . PLEASSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEE folks lets get real and deal with reality, there are too many important issues facing the country to waste time on this moronic issue.

Roy Wilson -

And you saw the "birth announcement" when & how?

ok, all you knuckleheads that think obama wasn't born in the usa, as much as the republicans would love to prove this, they haven't. and don't waste your time with some link to nutsrus.com.

Really, what good would it be if Obama produced his Birth Certificate, if the Health director states he was born in Hawaii that would mean more than a piece of paper, you birthers need to get your heads examined, you don't make any sense of why a piece of paper would some how prove to be more important than someone who has access to all the documents ....

I am no fan of Obama but he is the CIC and this Lt Col needs to be court martialed.

Ritchie -

And the Health Director is...who? And did he (or she) say "I am not a crook", too? And I have an original copy of the Declaration of Independence that one gov't. official claims is the real deal, so would you like to buy it from me sight unseen as long as you like to take other peoples words as absolute proof? No? I didn't think so....

Obama claiming to be a foreign student when he applied for college entrance in order to get a scholarship

Debunked.http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

For those who want to see the birth certificate. LMAO

Good for you Terry everybody has a "RIGHT" to there own opinions at least you won't be in Afghanistan with your hands tied behind your back like I was in Nam you know the last war the Democrats waged.

heychalie -

You're wrong - this officer does have the right to refuse his orders. He'll have to face the consequences of his actions, but he has the right. And we don't need to have God say it, but it would be nice if the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS would examine this issue openly. There's one officer's future and a lot of taxpayer money hinging on this simple question.

trm2008 -

And just who exactly is Snopes and Factcheck? You need to read my full post at #308.

DMMAGEE.......please don't send him up here to Montana. We don't want him. We have enough of other states rejects up here already to deal with.

tjm,

I would hope that you are not one of those people who really think that Obama is not a US born citizen. Because that whole issue has been resolved already. The Supreme Court resolves Constitutional issues only, there is no question regarding the requirement to be a US born citizen to be eligible for the Presidency. The Supreme Court would decline to review this matter because there is no constitutional issues at stake. I guess you hope the Supreme Court would review it because the majority of the justices are conservative republicans and the court could reverse the election. Do not hold your breadth on that one because you will be turning blue. Sorry not going to happen so just get over the election and get on with your life.

Birthers: Get out your mutiple logins and cut and paste folder. Time to troll for your cause dumb as it is.

ROY WILSON,

The reason there was a birth announcement in Hawaii is thats where Obamas Grandparents lived a normal birth announcement usely has the name of the parents and the time of birth,weight and hospital. Also why would Baracks wife say that Kenya "is" Baracks home country. Please explain ?

Even as a conscientious objector, he is a doctor and would go as a "non - combatant".

He could do so much good for our troops in the field as a doctor. What's wrong with him?!

Dan, Col. Roberts is the medal of honor recipient, not the person (Lakin) failing to report to duty.

A medal of Honor Winner?,,,,,,,,,,,,how about the part of being a doctor,,,does that scare ya? It should if you and your doctor talk politics and he's a rightwinger,,,better check those prescriptions out before taking them.

It's easy to misread the article as the deserter who has the MOH. It was his commanding officer who has it. I had to read it again myself to be sure.

it is very hard to believe that this blooming idiot is a medal of honor winner

MoH is for bravery, not intelligence.

JCF, I will ask again for any proof that you have.

Talk radio told him so. That's al I ever get when I ask for evidence anyhow.

Here's the listing from CMOH

http://www.cmohs.org/search-results.php?q=Lt.+Col.+Terry+Lakin&x=0&y=0&rank=&organization=&division=&company=&conflict=

His name IS NOT THERE!

Now all you wing-nuts that CAN'T READ please be silent!

Dan

His allegiance is to the Constitution, NOT the POTUS.

There is something awkward about the placement of the mention of the Medal of Honor. I guess its because it is unusual for a news article to mention details about someone who is not the primary target of the article. I initially read it as Lakin being the recipient, but that was so outrageous of a thought that I immediately re-read the sentence.

There is something awkward about the placement of the mention of the Medal of Honor.

It is due to the functional illiteracy of the journalists. I was by no stretch of the imagination an English major in school. But I was able to follow the basic rules of starting a thought and continuing it on in some sort of flow - intro, body, closing.

msnbc journalists just "shotgun" out their thoughts and have no organization to the progression of the article. And the editors and proofreaders are just promoted journalists.

His allegiance is to the Constitution, NOT the POTUS, who merely happens to be the Commander-in-Chief, who has underlings who take orders, under the CoCommand.

For the 1000th time, he isn't a MOH. Nor is he a patriot. He is a jerk who deserves whatever he gets.

kobee, you are correct that the oath Larkin took states allegiance to the constitution. Under Article II, that the POTUS is Commander in Chief.

What amazing powers of concentration the Birther & Tea Party people have!!!

Seems like even the smallest minds are able to fasten unshakably on a single idea -- to the exclusion of all else. They can do so, of course, because there is only room in their tiny brains for ONE idea at a time.

Still, Darwin would be impressed. It's obviously an adaptive trait for developing herd behaviors.

This guy should sue the GOP for turning him into a vegetable.

buzz, because it the case has been settled. Just because you, pos, won't accept it, doesn't make it untrue.

guess what - mc shame does not have a birth certificate either

some still don't believe the Moon landing either Yet there is a Laser station on the moon

I guess the Russians put it there ? so yes some will never be satisfied

This Birther crap reminds me of Swiftboat Vets for truth, I bet they have the same people funding them.

there was only ONE case to be defended and Obama defended it, admirably. He doesn't have to do it again.

That dentist in Ca did the same thing to her opponent for Congress too... how ridiculous!

Buzzorn-1

I'm just ignorant enough to buy into it. Why does the pos president spend so much money getting the cases that come to court regarding his birth certificate dismissed/defended. Just show us all the necessary papers that he hasn't shown.

And his Baptismal papers; vaccination records; circumcision scars; dental work; SAT scores; IQ tests. Fact is Buzz, no Birther would be satisfied with ANY proof provided, because it's all a coverup to avoid stating the truth which is: You will never, ever, under any circumstance, accept the legitimacy of our President. You just don't have the cojones to say it, so you make lame excuses.

You know what really amazes me? How so many people are so uninformed. Most of you are claiming how this has been gone over and over....but, apparently you didn't learn anything. I suggest you read up on all of this and then return and comment. It would be a lot more interesting if you knew what you were talking about.

How do we know this guy is "far right?" He may just merely be a total dumbass.

catastic - there's a difference?

And for the record I'd say the same thing about far left. I have no more love for PETA than I do for the Family Research Council.

That there are people who support Lankin is scary. As others have pointed out he received orders through his chain of command. No politics allows you to disobey an order from your chain of command unless following it would be illegal. The pres is the pres even if you don't like it. It became moot when Obama was sworn in by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. I served in the Nam era, it was VERY clear not to follow orders was to go to jail. You serve, you obey. That's how it has to be.

Sedition in the armed services is a scary subject no matter which side holds the Presidency.

Obama has not provided an actual certificate of live birth only a copy has been presented thus far. A certificate of live birth... the original... might be required in order to be placed on the ballot in several states by the time of the 2012 election.

In either case treason is defined in the constitution as conspiracy to overthrow the government of the United States and neither this man nor the President are guilty of that.

So the real question is what happens to all of the laws and appointments made by this president if he is ever proved to be not qualified to hold the office? Which will never happen for obvious reasons.

Regardless of weather you lean extremely to the left or extremely to the right you need to check yourself... politics is a necessary evil and has nothing to do with the real purpose of life.

As long as Obama appears to be hiding something, there will always be those questions. Due to the closing of Obama's records from school, and visit to Pakistan in 1981 aren't brought forth, there remains doubt. A doubt that could easily be dispelled by opening the records, voluntarily. Obama doesn't, legally, have to open the records, I know. And Michelle didn't help matters with her Utube statement that Barack considers Kenya his home country.

Pretty sure that's not what she said, she was referring to the African part of his heritage. Much like someone whose father was Italian, but born in America,would probably consider Italy as much their home as America.

Doesn't affect citizenship in the least, that's based on where you were born.

Bobby, do you not understand that no one is allowed to own his/or her original birth certificate? NO ONE! You cannot go to the courthouse and get your original birth certificate, either! Why don't you try it? Then, when you return with only a copy, get back on here, and we can question your country of origin, too.

WHAT FUN!

What everyone here is forgetting is that, legally, there are two ways to attain citizenship upon birth, or being a "natural born citizen": first, jus soli, or birth in the country. Second, is jus sanguinis, or birth to citizen parent(s). his white mother (natural born citizen) from Kansas clearly and unequivocally qualifies him as a citizen by jus sanguinis. this whole birther thing is nonsense. If a person is born in Japan to an American parent, that person is legally considered a natural-born citizen, regardless of the fact that they were born in Japan.

Back to this LTC, with all due respect to his position, his ignorance of the law is certainly more of an issue than Obama's "citizenship".

W. Goin,

Of course you are absolutely correct. The mere thought that a Washington/Chicago politician and a lawyer to boot, would lie or in any other way be deceptive for personal gain is beyond understanding. With that thought in mind I have some ocean front property here in Nevada I would like to sell you. It is ocean front property because I say it is and just like POTUS Obama, I have nothing except money to gain from being deceptive or outright lying to you. You sound like the type of person who signs a contract without reading it first, because a seemingly trustworthy sales man tells you it is all on the up and up. If you are, then it is perfectly understandable why you take a politician at his word.

To be honest I very seriously doubt that anyone would have questioned Obama's citizenship if the issue had not come up for some potentially credible reason. If I were Obama and I had nothing to hide I would lay this issue to rest once and for all by proving that I am a natural born U.S. Citizen and doing so myself in a public form. The best way to kill a rumor is with the truth and in this case irrefutable poof on top of that. The way Obama is handling it, saying trust me and having others say the same thing on his behalf just does not dispel the rumors and will only add fuel to the fire. Unless he does something to stop it, it is only a matter of time before the records he has had sealed, are made public by court order. Then we may see the truth and it may kill the rumors, or prove them true.

I am not a lawyer but I suspect that if proof that Obama is constitutionally qualified to be POTUS and thus Commander In Chief is demanded by the defense and denied by Obama one of two things will happen. (1) The matter will end in a mistrial. (2) The charges will be dismissed or never filed.

There is a lot of smoke (and mirrors) surrounding Obama and his past that he has went to great lengths to conceal. There must be a reason for this and as long as Obama continues on this path he fuels the birthers.

Pssssssssssssst! Pssssssssssss! You. Yeah, you, c'mere.

I've got it on good word that Obama was on the grassy knoll. Well, not "on" the grassy knoll, no. He was actually in a drain that was part of the curbing on Elm Street, that day. After the shooting, they paved it over after removing the storm drain and putting it in the Archives, along with Obama's prints.

Check it out.

Hey Ray Kaye... I have it on good authority that when they took care of that thing the other thing wasn't where it was supposed to be. So when the guys did the paving for the thing on the grassy knoll it wasn't necessary to hide the other thing in the Archives. So fugetaboutit... OK?

Patty-581750 I'm not usually one to get snippy, but...you really need to stop proving how ignorant you are, the President IS a citizen, proven over and over by records and certified by the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii. Get over yourself and try reading more than the conspiracy papers and listening to more than people with absurd agendas. Birthers are either nuts, racists using the birth record as an excuse or far-right nuts who want to turn our country into some kind of one-party, one-political philosophy, unconstitutional and paranoid society. The difference between you and people who think like me? We will not stop your free speech and will fight to protect your rights, whether we agree or not.

Don in Minnesota-554950 - I served in the Nam era, it was VERY clear not to follow orders was to go to jail. You serve, you obey. That's how it has to be.

I don't know what branch you served in but after the My Lai Massacre when they prosecuted Lieutenant Calley for following Captain Medina's Orders. It has never been that way again.

As a historical note, 2009, two Viet Cong survivors admitted that they were in a irrigation ditch and fired at the Americans that started the whole thing. They are now considered as heroes.

This is why Iraq and here (Afghanistan) are lost causes, attempting to fight an Asymmetric War with US Military Conventional Forces (and Civilians (especially Politicians) not having a clue as to what Asymmetric Warfare is). This includes most US Military Conventional Warfare Forces not being trained in Mountain Warfare (go look at a map of this place), Language (reading writing speaking Pashtu, Farsi, or Arabic), Winter Warfare (reason that the USMC MEU suffered non combat related casualties, frostbite), Marjah, while the Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters exfiltrated to Kandahar because the USMC announced they were coming to take Marjah months ahead of the attack.).

Ernie - you might try to learn a little about the subject. He released his BC online. He authorized government officials in Hawaii to publicly verify those documents and his citizenship. There have already BEEN cases adjudicated regarding this subject, this is not the first, this isn't even the 51st.

And he has been certified a citizen and qualified for the post of POTUS by the last administrations Secretary of State, who was the only person who had to be shown anything.

OUR President, Barack Hussein Obama is hiding NOTHING. You crazies will NEVER be satisfied, and no one owes you ANY explanation or any of the 'documents' or 'proof' you are demanding to see.

I want to see proof that O is capable of handling his job as president...the sooner, the better for all!

The reason people still fall for the "birther" story is the same reason people still fall for the "Nigerian Scam" - There's a sucker born every minute.

This is the tip of the iceberg called ignorance for them. They know they just can't admit to themselves that what they have believed and what they have been told all their miserable lives is a lie!

OOOOOOOOOK Capt Tripps, Which one of 57 states that Obama thinks exist did these court cases happen in? Or, am I just supposed to take your word for it like Obama expects everyone else to do? You just don't get it do you? Obama has far too much political influence and money for it not to be possible that no matter what public official certifies his birth certificate, it still may be a false statement, bought and paid for with money or promise of a bright political future. I saw the birth certificate he allegedly released on line during is initial campaign. If you recall properly it was a matter of which so called questioned document expert you listened to as to it's validity. I would be willing to bet you a years salary that I can produce a real birth certificate that shows my last name to be different from what it really is. It is all a matter of greasing the right palms and Obama being a graduate of the infamous Chicago School of Politics certainly knows how to get what he wants done.

As I said before we know what Obama wants us to know about him. The rest he has had sealed and made sure nothing can be discovered incriminating or otherwise. You need to ask yourself these questions. Why would a person who promises transparrancy cloak his past in such a manner? What is he really hiding and if it is nothing, why not kill all the rumors/birthers doubts by opening his past up for public investigation? Why did he lie about going to school in Jakarta? How did someone with seemingly little to no money travel to the U.S. and go to school at Occidental College and under what name? When he traveled to Kenya (which as forbidden for U.S. citizens to do at the time) what passport, from what country, did he use and what was the name on the passport?

To the best of my knowledge NONE of these simple questions have been answered which begs one last question. What is it that Obama does not want us to know about his past?

For now Obama is POTUS. I will now and always have respected that office regardless of the person holding it. Much like our military, I may not always agree with what they do, but I have nothing but respect and support for the men and women who fight to keep out country free and safe.

Obama as individual has done nothing but cast doubt on his loyalty to the best interests of this country and it's people. If nothing else proves this, the manner in which Obamacare is being forced upon us proves that he cares little about the will of the majority of U.S. citizens. Cap & Trade, should it pass and be signed into law, will be yet another economic disaster for this country and last but not least when good paying jobs will fix our economy faster than anything Washington can do, this is very low on his agenda.

Um....this happened prior to his election. I think his net worth at the time,both he and his wife, was less than 5 million - a third of that being the value of their home. Where do you get the idea that he was capable of buying off state politicians and appointees of rival parties administration?

I mean now you're just into tinfoil hat territory my friend.

Andif you want dates, justeffingoogleit.com my friend, we're here on the internet, try searching for more info.

Oh @!$%# it, here's a concise summary - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories

He never lied about going to school in Indonesia, what are you talking bout? He references this fact in his books for Christ's sake, and often during the campaign as giving him a broader perspective. What do you mean by "traveled to the US"? He was born here, and lived most of his life here prior to going to college. I'm sure he got in the same way anyone else without money does (there are these things called scholarships). What other name would he use? He never adopted his step father's. Travel to Kenya was "restricted", not banned, meaning you had to get prior authorization from the state department. Having half your family being from there probably get that for you. All of those questions have been answered, if you bother looking. Better yet, ask why they are important in the first place? That's scrutiny beyond the norm.

My mistake it was Karachi, Pakistan and Istanbul, Turkey in 1981. This is something Obama has not made public and begs the question of what passport he used since U.S. Citizens were prohibited from travel to Pakistan in 1981. Here is the link: http://opengov.ideascale.com/a/dtd/6041-4049.

You see here in lies the root of the problem. The fact is either Obama is a natural born U.S. Citizen or he is not. For every bit of evidence that says he is, evidence can be found that says he is not or at the very least sheds doubt on the matter. Just FYI the "certificate of live birth" Obama allegedly posted on his website duringhis campaign would not be acceptable as proof of citizenship for a U.S. Passport. NO RAISED SEAL or evidence there of. The seal on the Internet copy is clearly stamped and not raised as required for proof of citizenship. As for Obama's ability to pay off people to swear he was born in Hawaii, you failed to read the entire post. I said or political advancement promises. This is well within Obama's power as POTUS. He could always use another Czar of something.

Once again the ball is in Obama's court and as usual he is fumbling it. Instead of providing irrefutableproof that he is a natural born U.S. Citizen he is doing everything in his power to make sure the facts never come to light. WHY???? If he has nothing to hide? It simply makes no sense to allow this to drag on and cast a shadow over his time as POTUSif he could simply lay the matter to rest with the facts and truth. Now does it? It would appear that Obama has chose to invoke the 5th Amendment to the Constitution and remain silent.

Ernie-201266: Being a regular visitor to Pakistan, I can tell you that US did not have a travel ban in 1981. US had a travel advisory for its citizen traveling to Pakistan, due to its newly imposed martial law, which is no different than what it has today for some countries including yes, Pakistan (due to security reasons). But many US citizens, including the ones born here still travel to Pakistan and many other countries deemed dangerous.

The link you cited has been debunked many times, and I am not sure why you kept your research so limited on such a "sensitive" topic.

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/barack-obama-traveled-to-pakistan-on-an-indonesian-passport/

Ernie, you are correct, a scanned birth certificate on a website would not be sufficient to obtain a US passport. However, it's to be noted that the raised seal on Hawaii birth certificates are on the back side and do not show very well on scanned versions of the front side.

Straight Talk, You just proved my point exactly. For every article that cast a doubt as to Obama's citizenship there can be another found that counters it. We are being told what people want us to know. Meanwhile the one and only person who can put and end to this scandal is Obama himself and he isn't talking or making any consorted effort to prove his natural born U.S. citizenship. Again I ask the simple question of WHY? Does he really have something to hide? Does he consider himself too much better than the common American to do this? WHY? There is a reason for his actions and only Obama knows what that is and he isn't talking. For a POTUShow so desperately wants to remake America into his America, he sure seems to be making his job far more difficult than necessary. It seems like he is inviting controversy and or thrives one the turmoil caused by it.

nikkinala, Thanks for the info on the certificate of live birth. While it may be just a poor copy, the seal also seems to show the date Hawaii became state as 1950 and we all know Hawaii became a state in 1959.

Ernie, the one that's linked to by Snopes says 1959 on the state seal, but it's pretty small and at first glance the nine does look like a zero.

What end? He released online the birth certificate he received from Hawaii - it's the only one they issue, and they verified it.

There is no two sides to this, there is the truth and there is the crazy people refusing to accept it. None of the articles or links you put up have any verifiable facts in them. Why do you continue to claim they are valid criticisms when they are filled with nothing more than debunked lies? This is why the campaign is merely dismissing all suits and requests, because the people behind them will NEVER be satisfied, they come up with the most ridiculous scenarios to explain away EVERY fact presented to them.

Was the birth announcement also a fabrication? Part of the greater conspiracy to get a foreign national into the White House started 50 years ago? Why can't you take a step back and see how delusional you sound - every time someone on the board tears down one fallacy of yours you come up with some other crap and say "see, look, there's doubt" when in reality there isn't,just a lot of people throwing out crazy speculation without proof. How you compare conspiracy theories with presentations of factual information and call the two equal I just don't know.

I mean what are you going to pull out next, that hoax Kenyan BC? The cut off quote from his paternal grandma? All this crap has been consistently proven to be false or misconstrued, please stop bringing them up as viable concerns The man was born in Honolulu Hawaii. That has been a true fact his entire life.

Tripps, Let me answer you question with questions of my own. (1) If everything is on the up and up as Obama wants us to take his word for this, why is he going to great lengths to conceal certain parts of his past? (2) What exactly is it that Obama is hiding? As for Obama being a foreign national in the White House, he either is or he is not and one thing that is for certain is that Obama will do nothing to kill the rumors with the truth.

Tripps my offer to you or anyone who takes our Washington Politicians at their word. That ocean front property right here in Nevada is still for sale. Sight unseen of course and cash up front, all you have to do is take my word for it. Hell I'll even provide a deed official looking that says it's ocean front property in Nevada. Is any of this getting through to you? Just because Obama says it is so, does not make it the truth. Just because he provides what he claims to be a photo copy of his "certificate of live birth" (not a certified copy of his birth certificate and there is legal difference) does not mean it is the genuine article or that he was born in Hawaii. Hell the photo copy posted on the net does not even say when it was issued. There is too much smoke surrounding Obama's questioned citizenship for there not to be some fire. He is doing to much to cover things up and to little to dispel the rumors for him not to be worried about something potentially damaging being found by simply laying his cards on the table for all to see.

Tripps there is nothing delusional about not taking a politician at his/her word, especially in this day of lies, and cover ups. Delusional would be accepting everything they say as the truth and everything they do as "for the good of the nation" without questioning the reasoning for either.

I pity you if you are the typical weak minded person who does what they are told simply because someone in authority says to do it, without first taking the time to ask yourself why and what will happen if I do. In the case of Obama and his questioned citizenship. He either is a natural born U.S. citizen or he is not. If he is, no problem (I still think he is a lousy POTUS, but at least he would be legal). If he is not a natural born U.S. citizen then we have a big problem. Either way you and I can debate the issues all day long and it will not change the one simple fact. Obama can put and end to it all and refuses to do so. So again I ask WHY? If he is a natural born citizen as he claims and you believe then why not do everything in his power to prove it? I am not talking about displaying a questionable photo copy of a "certificate of live birth" from Hawaii and telling America there it is this is all I am going to show you. I am talking about opening up his college transcripts, his documents used to obtain his passport (including but not limited to how many other countries ,if any) he holds passports from. Records of any and all names he has been known by (again if any other that BH Obama). Shut the naysayers down once and for all and put and end to this. If he is what he says he is, then he has everything to gain and absolutely nothing to lose. If your boss told you to jump off the roof of your company building as a show of good faith and to trust him/her that there was an air bag to break your fall below, I would hope you would at least look first before jumping. The same logic applies here. Just because a politician says trust me I am telling the truth and here is a photo copy of a legal looking document to prove it, I would hope that in matters involving national security you would want further evidence. I would call being constitutionally qualified to be POTUS a matter of national security at the highers level. Wouldn't you?

Tripps try not to view this issue from such a narrow minded point of view. You said words to the effect that there was what Obama says is the truth and what the "crazies" believe. Do you think that everyone who does not believe what Obama says as the truth and nothing but the truth, a crazy person? What next if we disagree are we racists because Obama is half black? Using that logic (or lack there of) any black person who disagrees with Obama is a racists because he is also half white. It might come as surprise to you (and I hope I am wrong) but not everyone believes as you do or I do. (a) It is human nature to ask WHY when the answer is clouded or in this case being buried. (b) It is our right as American citizens who still live in a free country to as why our POTUS is going to such great lengths to hide certain details about his past and WHY he will not put and end to it once and for all. For a person as intelligent as I believe Obama is, in this case he is allowing this to expand out of control when it would be simple for him to stop it, if he has nothing to hide.

No it doesn't - If my boss told me he was from Schenectady,I'd take his word for it. I mean you sound extremely paranoid - it's one thing to have a certain level of cyncicism about any politician. They are what they are. You're supposing a pretty intricate conspiracy, one that would have had to have been started 50 years ago immediately following the President's birth.

The BC, certificate, whatever you want to call it, is the only form Hawaii issues. I repeat - the only form Hawaii issues. Again - There is no other type of proof of Birth besides the one Obama posted online. This is what you get from Hawaii. So your continued insistence on it being inadequate is quite frankly psychopathic, as is much of the birther movements claims.

And way to reverse the race card. No one cares if you agree with Obama's OPINIONS - those are what they are. I'm talking about verified FACTS being dismissed for irrational hearsay. He was born in Hawaii - fact. His only legal name is Barrack Hussein Obama - fact. He is an American citizen - fact.

I feel for YOU that your mind is so weak, or your hate for the man so strong, that you'll grasp at the slimmest and most facile of straws to illegitimize his presidency. I mean you repeat such obvious and debunked lies - his BC IS stamped, dated and sealed. It was issued on June 6th,2007 - if I can find that surely you can, and will stop repeating otherwise. Hopw many of these have to be shot down before you just stop?

How do prove a negative? How could he possible prove that he DOESN'T hold a foreign passport? Would the fact that he gained security clearance as a Senator from Ill and traveled extensively not be enough? Because they kind of have rules regarding such....but clearly that's not enough for some people. How does he prove he never used any other name? He can only show documents with Barrack Obama listed, but again, it doesn't DISPROVE any crazy theory about aliases. No,your asking the impossible, and quite frankly he's a lot better off ignoring the crackpots than rising to the bait.

I'll give you a challenge - prove he was born somewhere else. Provide ANY documented evidence to that fact, because without it (and there is none) you are pissing in the wind my friend. All paper trails have lead in one direction. The other side just has anger, supposition,and an ability bordering on insanity to reject all logical and contradictory information.

Tripps, please cool down a little, as Obama is the President (sort of) until proven otherwise. Obama could lay all this to rest by spending 35.00 dollars and a stamp to produced a verified copy of his Birth Certificate, Just as his team made McCain produce his Birth Certificate. Just think the million dollars plus that Obama has spent to not produce it could have save many a babies lives, in hospitals or use in many other productive ways for Americans, not hiding his past.

The B.C. you so mention, I can send you a dozen copies of it for your review, but they are certificates of birth not Birth Certificates. The Certificate of birth can be obtained by anyone and it is use the same as an Identity card for people without a drivers license.

So, please answer the question that even you as an American would want to know. Why does Mr. Obama not want to provide his full fledged birth certificate????? Very simple question and very easy to act upon if you are Mr. Obama and want to do so.

Obama campaign didn't require nor request McCain's birth certificate or records - his own campaign started the investigation internally, back in Feb 2008. based on two issues 1st, even though his birth was announced in the local news papers - there was no official record of his birth at the military hospital in the Canal zone. So, even though his parents were both natural born citizens, there is some confusion on whether or not his birth could be proven with USA official military records to have occured on diplomatic United states soil.

Its documented. The Democratic party actually pesented a bill in congress to stipulate that fact and announced that it was not concerned with it... considered it a Non-issue.

If you have documentation earlier than Feb 2008, which shows that the DNC in general or Obama in specific raised the question earlier than that date - I would all like to see the the reference to your source?

Well you are correct in that there is still some question as to whether or not McCain's birth satisfies the requirement for President, however unless he brought the three lawsuits against himself, (which I doubt, but did not check) it must have been from Hilary or Obama's aids or the Democratic bulldogs like Soros or the movie Mogul.

So here is the story and it is not complete but answers many questions but if McCain is in question, what about the strange behavior of Obama and his transpareny to the American People, what happen to the oath obama took swearing that he would tell the truth?

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Friday, May 2, 2008

McCain Birth Eligibility Remains Controversial

John McCain's eligibility for the presidency raises fascinating questions, especially in my case, as I was born overseas at an American military hospital in West Germany.

The situation for McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone, has never been squarely addressed constitutionally, according to Michael Dobbs at the Washington Post:

"John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States."
--U.S. Senate Resolution, April 30, 2008.

On Wednesday evening, the U.S. Senate unanimously declared John S. McCain III a "natural-born citizen," eligible to be president of the United States. That was the good news for the presumptive Republican nominee, who was born nearly 72 years ago in a military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone. The bad news is that the Senate resolution is a non-binding opinion that fails to resolve one of the murkiest, untested areas of the U.S. constitution.

In an attempt to clarify the issues at stake, I am posting the key documents in the debate. For a more detailed look at the constitutional debate, see my story in today's print edition of the Post, available here. As a bonus for the conspiracy theorists out there, I am also posting exclusively an extract from the Panama Canal Zone birth registers for August 1936 that contains no mention of McCain's birth! Make of this what you will.

The Facts

Article two of the constitution states that "no person except a natural born citizen...shall be eligible to the Office of president." Legal cases have been filed in at least three states--New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and California--challenging McCain's eligibility for the presidency. You can read the New Hampshire filing, by a 49-year-old computer programmer named Fred Hollander, here.

The McCain campaign has consulted two leading jurists, Theodore Olsen and Laurence Tribe, on the constitutional issues. Olsen and Tribe were on opposite sides of the 2000 Bush vs Gore Supreme Court case, but they see eye to eye on the question of McCain's eligibility for the presidency. They argue that McCain is a natural born citizen because the United States exercised sovereignty over the Panama Canal at the time of his birth on August 29, 1936, he was born on a U.S. military base, and both of his parents were U.S. citizens. The Olsen-Tribe opinion is available here.

Sarah Duggin, an associate law professor at Catholic University, who has made a detailed study of the natural born issue, says the question is not as simple as Olsen and Tribe make out. While she believes that McCain would likely win a determined legal challenge to his eligibility to be president, she says the matter can only be fully resolved by a constitutional amendment or a decision of the Supreme Court.

McCain's birth on August 29, 1936, in what was then the Panama Canal Zone was announced in the English language Panamanian American, available here. The McCain campaign has declined to publicly release his birth certificate, but a senior campaign official showed me a copy. Contrary to some Internet rumors that McCain was born outside the Canal Zone, in Colon, the document records his birth in the Coco Solo "family hospital."

Exclusive tidbit for conspiracy theorists: There is no record of McCain's birth in the bound birth registers of the Panama Canal Zone Health Department, which are available for public inspection at the National Archives in College Park, Md. Here is a sample page from the August 1936 birth register.

While some people will no doubt seize on the missing birth record as evidence that McCain was not born in the Canal Zone, my own view is that it is probably a bureaucratic snafu. The combination of the birth announcement in the Panamanian American plus the McCain birth certificate plus the memories of his 96-year-old mother persuades me that the senator was indeed born inside the Canal Zone.

But that does not entirely end the constitutional debate. The question remains: how did McCain acquire his U.S. citizenship, by birth or by naturalization. Even though the 10-mile wide Canal Zone was effectively under American sovereignty between 1904 and 1979, when it was handed back to the Panamanians, it was not "in" the United States. Here is what a State Department manual on U.S. citizenship has to say about children born on U.S. military installations:

Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.

There are few precedents for someone born outside the United States proper running for president, let alone becoming president. The best one the McCain camp has been able to come up with is the case of Vice Preisdent Charles Curtis who was born in the territory of Kansas, in January 1860, a year before Kansas became a state. The twelfth amendment requires that vice presidents possess the same qualifications as presidents.

The Pinocchio Test

It seems common sense that a child born to U.S. citizens on a U.S. military base while his father was on active military service should be eligible for the presidency. But the constitution is ambiguous about the precise meaning of "natural-born citizen." According to Professor Duggin, the "McCain side has some really good arguments, but ultimately there has never been any real resolution of this issue. Congress cannot legislatively change the meaning of the constitution."

Recall in February the New York Timescreated a tempest in a teapot with its scandal-mongering piece on McCain's birth, "McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out."
See also, Dobbs' main article, "McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate: His Eligibility for Presidency Is Questioned."

======================================================================

Not happy, then check it out for yourself at: http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/mccain-birth-eligibility-remains.html

Last I heard the NYT is very liberal (Democratic) and so is Dobbs.

That's a Washington Post article - they're actually kind of known for being on the....right side of the equation as far as newspapers go.

And if you read any of my comments you would know that the certificate Obama presented is the only one Hawaii issues - so there is no other form. It's as valid as any proof of birth issued by any other state. And he's hardly spent millions, his entire legal bill was around 1.7 mil, that's not solely on this, in fact his lawyers have said fighting these cases has cost next to nothing as judges have been tossing them out as meritless almost immediately. The majority of that legal bill went towards shutting down his campaign and transitioning from candidate to POTUS elect. I even think one of his lawyers has been working pro bono on the birther cases.

Tripps, That is all I have been saying, if that is a true certified copy of his birth certificate in Hawaii, then instead of his 1.5-2.0 million dollars that he has spent to keep it locked up, all he needs to do is have his attorneys deliver it to any of the Legal courts of law and this whole question would become mute! Why not do it the easy way?

As to the State of Hawaii there is only one person there that claims to have seen the birth certificate, all the others have distanced themselves from the discussion in the last month or so.

Have a nice weekend,

hummm,,is that a real word?

JCF-893343

Obama is a treasonous traitor

Care to present some evidence? If you actually have some, them's grounds for impeachment. But, " I hate the man and his policies" does not equal treason.

Most community colleges have a course on Introduction to Law, you might want to give it a try.

There are plenty of people that go to those comm.colleges on student loans too.getting educated without serving thier country.Unless you have worn a uniform,you have no right to even comment.This navy vet says off to the stockade for a good strech and a DD

What are you, crazy? This is America, not "Starship Troopers". Military service is pretty inconsequential in a society run by CIVILIANS.

OK...and if you have never played in the NFL, you have no right to an opinion of football. Come to think of it, using your logic, if you have not ever been an african american President of the United States, you cannot have any comments regarding that office as well. Seems fair, right?

JCF-893343: "Obama is a treasonous traitor"

Is that like being a dumb dumbass?

A loserious loser?

Perhaps an illiterate birther?

(That last one doesn't seem to go together, but somehow still works!)

befuddled birther??

bilious birther??

Nah, just plain thick as sh*t birther, is best

Capt. Tripps: Military service is inconsequential?? I really hope you are joking. Young people serve their country every day, often putting their life on the line, just so you can avail yourself of the privilege and freedom this country offers. Thousands of them end up living their lives with disability and many give the ultimate sacrifice. If you really believe their service is inconsequential, I invite you to speak with some of the vets of various wars in a VA waiting room. There is NOTHING inconsequential about it at all. And, in case you think I know nothing about it, I am married to a retired USAF aviator who is a veteran of Viet Nam and Desert Storm. His service makes me very proud every day even in the face of the disabilities he has to face because of it.

jtdwisconsin

OK...and if you have never played in the NFL, you have no right to an opinion of football. Come to think of it, using your logic, if you have not ever been an african american President of the United States, you cannot have any comments regarding that office as well. Seems fair, right?

And how many people have died for their country PLAYING FOOTBALL. You can't equate the two, your logic is flawed!

I said it's inconsequential, regarding having an opinion of this story in particular, and the people involved, and larger issues involving the military and this country.

And my mother is 20+ year NCO Air Force Veteran. So let's not compare family service records. I'm not dissing the military, I'm dismissing the idea that it takes some special kind of insight to understand stories involving it.

It may give one a different perspective, but it's no more valid than anyone else's who is educated about the subject.

Uth

EVIDENCE? Let Obama present the evidence. He needs to release his records. WHY won't he?

Obama could end all this controversy IMMEDIATELY by releasing his records. WHY not? What's the problem??

Why won't he release his records? Just which records must he release that will convince you? As someone else pointed out here, there is nothing that will convince a birther because they will insist that the records have been faked.

No one put George Bush (or any other president) through this hassle.

Wrong. You're wrong. Dead wrong. Absolutely wrong.

A foreign national is in the White House and we shouldn't care??

koobee

Wrong. You're wrong. Dead wrong. Absolutely wrong.

A foreign national is in the White House and we shouldn't care??*** It's not that we don't care, we do, honestly. Someof us just got sick and tired of doing things by the book, after President Shrub screwed all of this up. So, we hired a good P.R. firm, got this birther thing rolling so that all of you conspiritors could keep scratching your asses and looking under rocks for evidence while the rest of us got back to real life issues.

Hey, but you keep searching under rocks....K? This way, you're all off of the streets.

I really think that, if there were any substance at all to the birfers' claims, it would have come out during the campaign, from the primaries to the general election. And McCentury was born in Panama, not even on base. Because the Coco Solo Naval Air Station did not have a hospital in 1936. There was no hospital within the Canal Zone in the mid-'30s.

Douglas MacArthur was discharged for going against the President, who was Truman at that time. Pres. Truman made it very clear that the U.S. Constitution is written for civilians, and the country is run by civilians, including the fact that the Commander in Chief must be a civilian, or else we would have a military dictatorship, and the military might cause aggresive wars that the majority of Americans would not support. (And Truman was no pacifist). MacArthur was about to invade China, with nukes... imagine that! Truman fired MacArthur, and saved the world. Right now, our President is trying to keep the threat of nukes away from us; that's his job. Most people do not realize that the military, no matter how good they are at their job, needs supervision, because sometimes there is a military leader who will not follow the good of the people. In the case of this Lt. Col., the Medal of Honor was not his, and also, he has no direct authority over a large division (although he can have a great deal of responsibility such as over the deployment of munitions or supplies). His continued service in the military puts every soldier under him or over him in jeopardy, and his way of thinking does not allow our President to get on with his job, which happens to include stopping nukes. The wing nuts have been making up birthing slanders for 2000 years, against a greater Lord than the President, but it doesn't make these slanders right.

Ray Kaye

Perfect. Loved the response to KOOBEE. Obviously logic isn't working, so maybe this will.

Capt trips,I was emotional charged when I posted.The reason?My blood boils whenever (seems like every topic)the subject of anything turns into a nasty snipe fest about Obama/Bush,left/right,in/out and so on.The birth thing is stale.I'm proud to know your Mom is a retired NCO and thank her for her service.I desend from a long line of veterans through generations.I carried on tradition.How 'bout you?Do you have a service jacket,or is Mom's your ticket into the Legion as Sons of Ameican Legion.

Linda-451803

Capt Tripps What are you, crazy? This is America, not "Starship Troopers". Military service is pretty inconsequential in a society run by CIVILIANS.

Capt Tripps is correct if you read the book, Starship Troopers, in that inorder to be a "full citizen" (earned "franchise", and all citizenship rights) you had to have successfully served in the Military, that meant YOU not a spouse or relative, etc. And in the book there were no "waivers".

This is why I am waiting for the President to fullfill one of his promises, as stated by Candidate Obama and Rahm Emanuel, "US Citizenship is not an entitlement", regarding restarting the Selective Service aka Draft. With my comment being as reflected by the previous April 2009 Defense Budget Cut, and the current Defense Budget that the Draft would be into the USMC, or US Army Combat Ground Forces (and if you think women are not in Combat Ground Forces, my "Lionesses" would disagree with you), and not the USAF nor USN. In my other newsvine posts I stated the justifications, first hand experience, as to what the US Military must do to reorganize to fight the current Asymmetric Wars. With my justifications reflecting what was taught at all Branches of the US Military Command and General Staff Colleges and War Colleges about all Wars after the defeat of the USSR (again not understood by Civilians (especially Politicians, that only care about expensive "Cold War" Era designed Military Equipment built in their States, example USAF Air Superiority Fighters instead of Close Air Support Aircraft and Transports.)).

Bore-head- I understand. It's an attitude I've seen a lot of (not from my mother, mostly from officers) and never really got. I actually intended to become a CO thru AFROTC, but I lost my hearing while in college, so life took a different route.

But, but, but how do you know she was born in Kansas??!! She was probably born in Outer Siberia, and her birth certificate was faked, and she was smuggled into the country as an infant, because every body knew that 60-some years later (guessing time frame here) her son would be President of the United States!! We need to go to Outer Siberia and force them to release those records to prove she wasn't born in Kansas! It's all a conspiracy don't cha know!! :-)

Elizabeth-1372999 - I really do not know what part of revisionist history you are reading. MacArthur was for the use of nuclear weapons against the North Koreans as backed by the Chinese, not the invasion of China. This was after Task Force Smith ("Korean Conflict") was almost wiped out (Congressional Defense Budget Cuts, no funds for armor piercing rounds against Russian Tanks (T34-76) that ended up at Korea).

Fair enough,Tripps,at least you tried.DMMAGEE,I inlisted in the Navy in 1971 diring the draft years.I was seventeen.Did my hitch and four years of ANG.I have served.

koobee

Uth

EVIDENCE? Let Obama present the evidence. He needs to release his records. WHY won't he?

You are obviously either 1) reading-challenged, as this is being repeatedly explained to you or 2) willfully ignoring information being presented regarding access to and verification of birth records so that you can continue this text-based masturbation.

Barry-NJ,

How quickly you Obamasheep forget. While I will be the first to admit, Bush nor any other past POTUS had to prove their Constitutional qualifications for the job, but then again, to the best of my knowledge there was never any doubt raised before Obama. Bush did provide proof of his military experience (although it was not much, he did step forward and provide proof) when he was questioned about it. If I recall that pretty much ended the issue.

So you see how easy it would be for Obama to follow suit, unless of course, the truth would be damaging to his position as POTUS? I can think of only one reason why Obama wants to hide his past and it is not good. I was raised on the principal of always telling the truth. That way you don't have to remember what lie you told last on a give subject and that way when people check all they find is what you already told them. It would appear that our graduate from the Chicago School of Politics POTUS Obama practices just the opposite. Otherwise why seal his past and hide documents that can prove his claims?

In the meanwhile if you are that easily lead, then please feel free to purchase some ocean front property right here in Nevada that I have set aside especially for you and others like you. Of course this is a sight unseen and cash in advance sale. You do trust me that I have some ocean front property in Nevada don't you? After all I said it was so and refuse to provide anything that can prove otherwise, and have nothing but your money to gain by it. If the rumors are true Obama stands to lose his job as POTUS and if they are not true he stands to shut up the naysayers once and for all.

Honestly I stand in the middle on the citizenship issue. It would not surprise me to find he is not a natural born citizen and it would not surprise me to find that he is. Only his actions cause doubt in my mind.

again, what actions? He released his BC, he gave Hawaiian officials permission to verify and discuss his records, which they did(who also pointed out that they only release one form, there is no short or long version as many have complained about). My BC from 1982 looks a hell of a lot different than my kids from2006, it's much shorter with less information. I can only imagine what my mothers would look like from the '50s

and yet I see you up above actually making the accusation that he bought off the Governor and Commissioner of Health. Just...wow. And you continue to wonder why he just said screw it? He'd continually be answering increasingly incoherent questions from people coming up with all manner of ways to dismiss any evidence he provides.

Get a Life, seriously.

Capt. Tripps,see how easily it is to fool the rest of us, we call you Capt and who knows what you are a capt of? It is very easy to hide identities on the Internet, but for now, we will know you as Capt. Tripps, Captain.

Someone mentioned that other Presidents did not have to provide proof of citizenship. Well, at some time they must have as most have "presidential library's" in their home towns, or had served in the military where they had to prove who they were. Then good ole Obama's team made McCain stand before the Senate to be vetted and produce his birth certificate, why only McCain and not Obama? Good question, I just know it would not have been due to the Democratic Senate numbers or any Chicago like politics, Gee those things would not happen in our straight lace, constitutional Congress that just lied and cheated a disastrous health care bill through the congress.

Anyway the question remains, Why does Obama not want a US Leagal Court to see his full birth certificate, instead of the certificate of Birth that he wants us to see.

Have a wonderful weekend coming up, Captain

Now to all those that believe Obama when he says he was born in Hawaii, This may cast a little doubt upon the subject and maybe, just maybe you too will want to know if you are being lead toward socialism by an American or foreigner.

Happy reading:

HI Dept. of Health refuses to corroborate that Obama born in Hawaii

DESPITE NUMEROUS INQUIRIES FROM CITIZENS AND THE PRESS

by John Charlton

Dr. Fukino's claim that Obama was born in Hawaii and is a "natural-born American citizen" appears as shaky today as the infamous HI COLB appears authentic.

(Feb. 19, 2010) — The Post & Email has received documentation establishing without a doubt that the Hawaii Department of Health categorically refuses to corroborate the July 28, 2009 statement of Dr. Chiyome L. Fukino that Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a “natural-born American citizen.”

Since Fukino’s statement has become the fundamental claim to eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama, the failure of her Department to corroborate it in any way establishes that claim as false, by common sense. For honest folk, speaking sincerely, do not conceal corroborating evidence. Nor is there a reason to hide Obama’s vital records unless they prove he is not eligible.

Since the public statement was made, numerous citizens have attempted to understand and verify the claim made by Dr. Fukino in her capacity as Director of the Department of Health for the state of Hawaii. On each occasion the Department has officially refused to show any documentary evidence whatsoever to corroborate Fukino’s press release.

After six months of denials, therefore, it can safely be said that there is no evidence forthcoming that Obama was born in Hawaii or is a “natural-born American Citizen.”

The Post & Email makes this determination on the basis of the known facts, to wit:

1) The Department of Health denies having any written documents, whether printed or electronic, which bear testimony to the preparation of the Fukino statement;

2) The Department of Health denies having made or created any records after the statement was made which corroborate in any manner or document the process in which the statement was made.

3) The Hawaii Attorney General’s Office has officially refused to affirm or deny that Dr. Fukino had any statutory authority to make such a declaration;

4) Miss Janice S. Okubo, Director of Communications for the Department, having claimed that Dr. Fukino sought advice from the Hawaii Attorney General in preparation of the statement, refuses to disclose any documentation to prove such a claim;

5) Jill T. Nagamine, Deputy Attorney General for the State of Hawaii Attorney, says that her office contains no documentation to prove such a consultation took place between Dr. Fukino and Mark Bennett, the State Attorney General;

6) Nagamine also refuses to confirm that such a conversation took place;

7) Okubo denies that her Department has any phone records, letters, faxes, or other documents establishing that such counsel was sought (claim made to me in response to my UIPA request of Sept. 27, 2009, sent to me Dec. 28, 2009).

8) Dr. Fukino’s official daily schedules for July 2009 show that she never met with the State Attorney General, nor held a meeting to discuss the formulation of her press release, and that she never visited the Office of Vital Statistics to look at Obama’s alleged vital records.

The Chronology of the Fukino Statement

The Post & Email is now in possession of key documents which enable the reconstruction of the precise sequence and timing of events which led up to and followed the Fukino statement of July 28, 2009. These documents include copies of Miss Tickly’s correspondence with Janice Okubo and copies of Dr. Fukino’s daily schedules for July 2009. Each set of documents was released to The Post & Email by its respective author. Dr. Fukino’s calendar indicates that it was printed out for The Post & Email on Jan. 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, from an electronic file.

Wow, talk about assumptions making an ass out of you and...well just you. The Department's policy is to NEVER present anyone's documents for public perusal. They are not matters of public record. So I guess we can assume that no one ever born in Hawaii actually was, based on the, well, for lack of a worse term, illogic of your post.

Well if that is the best answer you can come up with is calling me an a.. then I feel sorry for you Mr. Tripps.

I just want to know why Mr. Obama is not producing the "so called factual" birth certificate for just one of the 15-20 US courts of law and let them determine the validity of the document, then this whole mess would be over and forgotten.

So carrying mr. Obama's water and encourage your senators to tell obama to close out this nonsense and prove us "what was it you called me" an a.. wrong and get on with creating Jobs for America.

Because none of those courts asked him to? What's so hard to understand? The cases are dismissed almost as soon as they go before a judge.

until he realizes he has no VA bennies and no retirement or second chances at a new Gov't job You know like after 20 years go to post office or TSA or BORDER after CM all gone for some goofy Idea

Jail might be the best place for him.

He's still a doctor, there are sadly a few areas of our country we're he'll be pretty popular.

Not to mention the wounded soldiers in Afghanistan who could use a doctor.

I agree what a sad commentary about this American. He deserves to be in prison for not following orders. President Obama is our President and he deservers respect.

He's still a doctor, there are sadly a few areas of our country we're he'll be pretty popular.

Texas. He can help them with their ol' secession theory.

You would go see a doctor dumb enough to believe the birth routine? I think he is going to have a problem bigger than he thinks and this is just a smokescreen for cowardice.

Hey folks I don't mean to spoil the party here and I am not a lawyer. That being said has anyone stopped to consider what will happen if the defense demands proof that Obama is Constitutionally qualified to be Commander In Chief and therefore can legally order soldiers to deploy. If the tribunal finds this to be a reasonable request and pertinent information to establish guilt or innocence and Obama stands firm and refuses to comply, then legally there would be either a mistrial, acquittal or no charges filed. Has anyone considered the long term ramifications to Obama's authority in the future as Commander In Chief if this guy is not convicted? I suspect that this will end with this doctor receiving an honorable discharge and retirement in exchange for his further silence on the matter.

Uh, then he'll give them the same birth certificate readily available online and already certified by both the governor and Commisioner of Health for Hawaii as being valid?

I mean omfg...

Read my earlier post. This certificate he released on line will not even pass to get him a passport. NO RAISED SEAL as required to prove citizenship for CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATES NOT copies of certificates of live birth. OMG! Tripps do you need a picture drawn in crayon? If he could not get a passport with that on line copy he showed everyone, what makes you think it would hold up in a court of law? The courts can only deal with the facts and the fact is Obama has yet to show a CERTIFIED COPY OF HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE. WHAT HE HAS SHOWN IS A CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH. Hospitals give these out (hell I still have the ones given by the hospital where my two kids were born and guess what? I still had to get a CERTIFIED COPY OF THEIR BIRTH CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY THE STATE THEY WERE BORN IN TO GET THEM A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD AND THEY HAD TO HAVE RAISED SEALS TO BE ACCEPTABLE) and they are not considered proof of citizenship by federal law.....PERIOD...

It has a raised seal - how do you expect to see that clearly online? It has a raised seal on the back, there images of it all over the net, closeups, etc (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html) - and the document was verified as the only type of BC issued by Hawaii, and SPECIFICALLY identified as being valid for all purposes of proving citizenship by officials of the state. So - YEAH, please pull your head out of your arse.

So again, what part of THAT are you refusing to understand? That is the form Hawaii issues, they don't give out "long form" BCs, if you need one that is what EVERYONE gets.

The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.

Not to mention--just like it has been mentioned MANY times--his mother was a US citizen. Done deal! That seals the deal!

Obama's mother was too young to convey citizenship at the time, he needs a birth certificate to do that now. Also just so all you Obama loving socialist do not worry, the military will not take the Lt. Colonel to trial as to do so they will have to prove mr. Obama is a US Citizen and he will not produce the records to do that. Nope, not even one of his three passports or 24 different social security numbers. At least not until he loses the next election if he is vetted to run, doubtful.

Bill, that's not true. The age requirement in place at the time of the President's birth only applied to those born outside of the United States. Since he was born in Hawaii, it's a moot issue.

nikkinala & Bill

That makes no sense.

Pepster, perhaps this will clear up some of your questions for you, and perhaps even Nikkiala, if he really wants to know how we are suppose to vette our Presidents by the US Constitution.,

"Only native-born U.S. citizens (or those born abroad, but only to parents who were both citizens of the U.S.) may be president of the United States, though from time to time that requirement is called into question, most recently after Arnold Schwarzenegger, born in Austria, was elected governor of California, in 2003. The Constitution originally provided a small loophole to this provision: One needn't have been born in the United States but had to be a citizen at the time the Constitution was adopted. But, since that occurred in 1789, that ship has sailed.

And if he was born abroad that would mean something. Fortunately he was birthed in a Hawaiian hospital, making most of your points moot.

Todate there has been no certified birth certificate presented to any US legal court of law to prove that Hawaii or Mar's is Obama birth place. It would put this whole thing to rest if one were to show up and then it would shut down all the 15-20 lawsuits to see something that resembles a valid verifiable birth certificate.

Please tell us WHY! not just produce it. no garbage like he already has as that line is tiring and worn out. If that fake he showed on his website is the only one then send that one to the court and say here it is and let the court investigate it and determine the validity of it. WHY NOT!!

Because not one single court has asked for it?

Every birther case has been thrown out as meritless. You're acting as if Obama has been ignoring subpoenas or something. No, the cases have been regularly dismissed with little or no effort required by his lawyers, because they have no standing.

It has been done so many times, you must have missed it.

"The state registrar of vital statistics also has verified that the Health Department holds Obama's original birth certificate, copies of which were released by the Obama presidential campaign in 2008."

In case you missed this...

Obama was born in Hawaii, and Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued statements last year and in October 2008 saying that she's seen vital records that prove Obama is a natural-born American citizen.

The state registrar of vital statistics also has verified that the Health Department holds Obama's original birth certificate, copies of which were released by the Obama presidential campaign in 2008.

Facts mean nothing to the birthers. Blind hatred shoves all reason aside.

Delusional people who can't see the trees need to grow up and take responsibility for their own works and actions, just because someone tells you something does not mean it is true, do you own fact checking, or are you too scared of the truth?

As far as I've seen Obama has proved his citizenship as wholly as anybody else would be capable of doing. (If only they would have had close up vagina cams back in the day during deliveries we wouldn't be going through this mess.) Also, I doubt that most people care all that much if he is or isn't, he was elected by all of us based on his merits, not his origin of birth. If you would step back and take an unbiased look at this president I think you would see that while he may not be doing a magnificent job, he is not doing a horrible one either.

One sure way to spot a sore loser birther is when they don't miss a chance to point out the Hussein thing...xenophobes for the win!!!

Really? So then I should just stick with the B.O. thing?

Then why did his grandmother say he was born in Kenya? Even his wife said recently at an event that his homeland is Kenya. Perhaps there is some truth to the assertions after all.

Tammy, please check your tinfoil head gear for holes...might be time for a replacement!

Why would you have your records sealed unless you have something to hide?

Ah, Obama's a typical politician, always evading the truth. When asked at a congressional hearing and under oath whether he had firsthand knowledge of where he was born, Obama thought for a minute and then claimed he didn't remember the event because it was too long ago and he was only one minute old. Imagine someone not remembering where they were born just because of their age.

FYI for the nutcases, that's cynicism not fact.

Hey, for all the nutcases that don't believe the dozens of leaders that have verified his birth and want to see paper proof instead of flawed human testimony, I have his birth certificate. I can print one out and fax it for you if it makes you feel better. I can print out yours too. Just go to birthcertificatesforsale.com and you can print anybodys.

Hey, if birthers are so concerned about that, why don't they demand to see the actual paper where Jesus wrote all his stuff down that started Christianity? Hey, if the church can't produce the paperwork, they must be hiding something, so you Christians better start worrying.

No, Tammy is correct, Michelle called Kenya his 'homeland.'

I call Scotland my homeland. It is where all my DNA comes from. Half of Obama's DNA comes from Kenya, BUT he was born in Hawaii.

Well the government in Hawaii said they had the records. The birthers have made it such a big deal the state quite dealing with them so they could get back to business of running their state. Birthers are like the Swift Boatees, make it up and hope some of the crap sticks to the wall.

And I call Hungary my homeland, though I was born in Connecticut and have never set foot in Hungary.

You are right Tracey, unless you are Native American and had your land stolen and your people killed you all have some other place to call your homeland. We have Irish American, African American, Italian Americans. By the reasoning going on here then all of them should leave and give us back our homeland.

Tammy, you ask "Then why did his grandmother say he was born in Kenya?"

Because his grandmother thought the reporter was asking about Barack Obama, Senior. Barack, Senior , the Presidents FATHER was born in Kenya. NOT the President. Clear?

If he was born in Hawaii, Kenya, Australia, or on Mars is really immaterial at this point. He's entrenched and even if there was incriminating evidence to prove the birthers right, it would be buried so deeply that even Obama would begin to doubt he was ever born.

What really matters is that Obama really sucks as a president.

hmdicowii, good point. And you hit the nail on the head with "sucks as a president".

http://factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

View the many sides of the birth certificate of OUR President !!

NO one's original birth certificate is ever revealed to anyone but the parents and the child listed on that birth certificate and the health department officials who guard those certificates. Even the parents and child only get copies that are called "Certificate of Live Birth." I'm not sure that in this day and age of electronics if new certificates are even "paper" copies as "originals."

My ancestors came from Scotland, Ireland, England, Germany, America (Native American) and who knows where else. Do some of you realize that your DNA can determine exactly where your roots are. Of course, for Tammy and some of the rest, their "family tree trunk doesn't fork".

UNBELIEVABLE IGNORANCE IN THIS THREAD.

ikie

Yeah, you.

I call B.S. on the claim that people born in America from legal migrant parents refer to the parents country of origin as their "homeland". After all, America is their homeland and I have never met a 1st generation American who was not proud of it.

While the "was he born in Hawaii" question is entertaining it is also unanswerable beyond a reasonable doubt and is being used to distract the discussion from other, more easily verifiable, questions. Such as: Why do the records from his Indonesian school indicate his name to be Barry Seotoro and his citizenship to be Indonesian? Why do those same records show his religion to be Islam? Why are all the rest of his school records sealed? Where are the records that show he legally changed his name from Barry Seotoro (the name he used while attending college) to Barak H. Obama? Why was his license to practice law rescinded? Why did he check "African-American" on his census form when he has a white mother? He was raised by his white grandparents in Hawaii which is not known as having a large black community. Is he ashamed of his "white half"? Why did he deny the fact that he is bi-racial? It was the white people in his life that created the opportunities for him to get to where he is. Yet he seems to despise those very people. Even throwing his own grandmother under the bus while calling her "...a typical white person" who is full of fear and racism.

Before you trot out the name calling and "Bush did...whatever..." in defense of your messiah, I welcome you to check my posting history. You will find that I railed against Bush and the neo-cons just as much, if not more, than I have against Obama. This is because there is no real difference in the two.

Tell me...What is Obama doing any differently than Bush? 2 Wars? check. Patriot act? check. Gitmo? check. Bailing out/taking over private industries? check. Creating new entitlement programs? check. Creating ever more debt? check. Forcing through unpopular legislation with backroom deals, bribes and abuses of the legal process? check. Creating "crisis" after "crisis" in order to keep the citizens living in constant fear? check. Boldly telling lie after lie in the belief that most people are stupid enough to believe them? check. (apparently they are right about that)

So, I ask again: The difference between Obama and Bush is......what????

I'm amazed at the amount of people on this thread, who claim to know what's on a "sealed birth certificate". What is sealed, is obviously NOT the Certificate of Live Birth, which is what most of you call a "copy of his birth certificate". Birth certificates give hospital names and doctor names-neither of which are on his COLB. His race is listed as "african"--this is a race? I know white people who are Africans, but they came from Zimbabwe.

Common logic works, if you allow it. His father, it is well-known, had left mama, before His Highness was born. A white, 18 yr. old woman, giving birth in a hospital, in the early sixties, no dad around....when one is filling out the birth certificate, they must pick a "race". If you are the nurse of doctor doing this, in this situation, what are YOU going to put down on that paper?????? I think this whole Citizenship thing is a pig in a poke-the real issue is what race is listed, for our "first black president"? If the answer is not "black" or "negro" or "colored".......let's just say Rodney King is not going to be on the corner saying, "can't we all just get along?".

Good luck, Amerika. The ignorant ones will need it.

Hey all of your birthers and anti-birthers! The point of my post above is that Obama is POTUS now and likely to remain so until at least January 2013. Attempting to prove that he is anything but a natural born U.S. Citizen is therefore futile on at least two levels: Proof may not exist; if it did, it's been long buried or destroyed.

The birther movement is probably a manifestation of desperation on the part of those who don't like the way the health care legislation was strongarmed, finagled, and forced into becoming law; don't like the elitest attitudes apparent in the Obama Administration and evident in his Democrat minions in the House and Senate; and don't like the direction the country is heading politically, socially, economically and internationally.

My suggestion to birthers: Don't give up the fight; just change your direction. Channel the energy you're now devoting to what is probably a futile errand, proving Obama to be an illegitimate heir to the throne, into getting out the vote in November. In this way you can bring some balance back to the legislative process. If the momentum can be maintained, we might even be able to de-throne Obama in 2012. Yeah!

hmdicowii,

You hit the nail right on the head. Not only that Obama suck as POTUS but the fact that he has went to such great lengths and spared no expense to hide his past, that it will be years before the truth comes out and by that time Obama will be but a footnote in the history of this country and very probably long since deceased from old age. After all he can't have anything interfering with his retirement salary and benefits as a past POTUS.

They were birthers before he was even elected, so I somehow doubt the HC bill had anything to do with their delusions. I agree it's a manifestation of their hatred of the Prez and his policies, but guess what, it's a Democracy, we voted,he won, get over it and come up with a better alternative next time, because quite frankly what you have right now is embarrassing.

Us Dems are foaming at the mouth over the idea of Palin running.

Next he will be refusing to treat patients who dont buy into the birther nonsense. Seems to be a trend.

All we can do is sit back and watch these people out themselves as great American Idiots and vote accordingly.

People that have close relatives that have immigrated here often refer to the country they came from as their homeland. My father at age 87 still refers to the countries that his parents came from as the homeland. Nothing much in that statement to indicate place of birth.

navy vet? Different views I take it, then I do. I guess if you see combat you have a different take on this president. Ever go to the Wall and see how many navy and airforce guys name on it? Compare that to army and marines. Don't even go there with your psuedo patriotism. After being in combat 66-67 I came home and told all my relatives if they were going to get drafted go into the navy or air force.......

God bless this president.

Semper Fi.

sorry navy vet 65 I didn't read your post all the way through and some of this post just throw me over the top. I especially go crazy when i see the posts that are from supposed military guys. Please accept my heartfelt apology for the assinine post i replied to you. I agree with you 100 percent.

flag waver - I came home and told all my relatives if they were going to get drafted go into the navy or air force.......

No sh1t. This is why we (my father Helicopter Pilot 3 Tours Vietnam, me LRRP/Ranger to now Asymmetric Warfare, and older brother (retired)) told my younger sister join USAF or nothing or we disown you. What was tragic was that we told her this to keep her out of combat. She ended up at Bosnia during her first duty assignment at Germany with USAF, now at Pentagon. With me being at Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. for years (recalled and extended).
See my other newsvine posts (other forums) that reflects the current Department Of Defense (DOD) stance on the USAF, USN, regarding the Defense Budget, that finally reflects that the US Army, USAF, USMC, USN Conventional Warfare Forces have no role in the current and future Asymmetric Wars (this includes various programs to transition USAF and USN personnel to USMC or US Army).

Very Well I'm afraid

Good point LU. As the mother of a gay son, I can tell you that the gay community is pretty pissed at Obama. 15 months & still no relief for gays in the military. Care to explain why?

I have no problems with either. I do however have a problem with an incompetent holding the office. Both Bush and Obama were/are incompetent in the office.

Surprise, fellow Americans, the U.S. military is the largest and most socialized program in this nation, which all so receives the big bucks! If you love wars, rockets and nukes, you are a socialist or is it a commie, nazi, socialist? Did I forget a brainwashed drone's sound bite or is it bitten? Facist?

Care to explain why?

LU answers for the president? Cool.

skor154 - Surprise, fellow Americans, the U.S. military is the largest and most socialized program in this nation,

ROTFLMAO. We are Totalitarian or Authoritarian as mandated by US Civil Law, Local Laws, and UCMJ.

which all so receives the big bucks!

Really, how about Unionizing us so that we can make a "Fair Living Wage". So that the lower ranks do not have their families living off of "public assistance".

If you love wars, rockets and nukes, you are a socialist or is it a commie, nazi, socialist? Did I forget a brainwashed drone's sound bite or is it bitten? Facist?

You are the one's benefiting from the Wars, not us (US Military). As President FDR found out that WWII eventually got the US out of the Great Depression. What do you think is keeping the US Economy afloat from going into a Great Depression since they (Politicians) refuse to eliminate the problems of the current US Economy, 60-100 Trillion USDs and the next "Crisis" of 54.6 Trillion USDs. Why do you think this administration started two more Wars (now four). The person that is a "brainwashed drone" is.....skor154

LU-404506 does that mean that I can finally leave this hell hole. Or is this another one of those Catch 22s. If it is not a Catch 22, ok, your turn, you can stay here at Afghanistan for a few years (indefinite extensions).

It's a volunteer military david, you're free to go.

Have you ever actually made a dollar on your own?

Good luck to you.

There's a difference between A GOVERNOR and A U.S PRESIDENT. Besides...California will elect ANYTHING

To run for President, one must be a born citizen. That is the difference between POTUS and a governor position.

The rules for presidents are quite clearly laid out in the Constitution--you must be born in the United States.

I remember when Arnie was running of governor. There was a popular bumper-sticker that read "allowing Austrians to hold office outside of Austria has not turned out well in the past..."

Constitution prevents that, in fact President is the only office a naturalized citizen cannot hold.

Rigger: No, there is no rule preventing someone who was not born on U.S. soil becoming president. John McCain was not born on U.S. soil. One must be a "natural born U.S. citizen."

TraceyS, You're wrong. ANY child born to a parent, or parents who are US citizens, automatically becomes a US Citizen (no matter WHERE the birth takes place. The President's MOTHER was a US citizen when he was born. End of discussion

Article II, section 1.:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;

8 U.S.C. § 1403, which became law in 1937, retroactively conferred citizenship on individuals born within the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and on individuals born in the Republic of Panama on or after that date who had at least one U.S. citizen parent employed by the U.S. government or the Panama Railway Company;

McCain was born in the Panama Canal zone in 1936, so he squeaked in under this little law. Only children born in certain US territories and properties become citizens at birth. But the Constitution is pretty clear about "Natural born" as opposed to "naturalized." Two very different things.

OH s---! Everyone is a racist if they express any criticism of O'Bama.

So will IL (Bogovich>sp>) and NV (Reid) and MA (any Kennedy) Michael....your point?

thinking aloud ... the VP must also be a "natural born" American. That is implicit in the requirement that the VP must meet the same standards as the president. It makes sense, or the VP would not be able to assume the presidency.

Ginny F .... while children born to American parents are Americans (per an Act of Congress), there is scholarly debate as to whether they are, indeed, "natural born" Americans.

You do not have to be a "natural born" citizen of the United States to be a governor or senator, just Vice POTUS and POTUS. Please do just a little research on these matters.