I agree completely with you Cynthia. I am in no way familiar with legal loopholes in our laws and would not even pretend to, but I MUST wonder if there is some law that would restrict an individual or group of slander when the target of this slander,,IE(deceased soldier), can not personally refute statements made of this person. If their is anyone here whom may be more familiar with law would either help me understand if this is a liable defense or not that would be great, as I am definitely in no position to administer legal defense,,it was merely a thought.

when fred phelps dies, we should all stage a big party wherever his funerel is held and be generally disruptive and contemptous. his entire congregation of brain-dead scum deserves to be mocked and ridiculed by millions.

His son wasn't even gay, but they consider any dead soldiers friends and family fair game? If they have an issue with gays and they picket something to do with gays, that is free speech. Detestable, but free speech. What is this?

You can't exercise free speech anytime and anywhere. Try simply standing in the middle of street, blocking traffic is enough to end your effort at free speech when the cops come. I would hope disrupting a military funeral is considered as unacceptable as blocking traffic.

And my heart goes out for the friends and family who are victims of this.

It sounds like it it own little incestuous church, mostly family, lead by a homophobic crack head.

The right to free speech is specifically designed to protect unpopular speech. If everybody agreed with what you are saying, there would be no need to protect said speech. The message and beliefs of this church and its congregation are absurd and downright mental to be sure, but you can fight fire with fire in this case. Just as Bill O is doing, by paying the court fees, there are ways to make their protests undesirable and difficult to continue. Such as;

1)Raising money to keep the protesters tied up it court (even if you are loosing the case, continuous court appearances will eventually take its toll, these people have jobs and can't keep it up for long without risking that job) a tactic used by corporations everyday to fight the little guy. You cannot sue for lost wages because of court appearances.

2)The staging of lawful protests by groups that this church detests near their church (gay rights groups, atheists groups, satanic worship groups, Wicca followers, Muslims, etc.)

3) With a little detective work, discover what businesses these people own and/or work for and stage lawful protests with persons from #2 on the list (signage to include that they are protesting employees that harass the families of those who have paid the ultimate price and will continue as long as the employee is still there)

4)Preemptive reservation of any and all public land within a mile of the funerals (not denying them a free speech, but denying a platform anywhere close to that funeral)

5) A petition and drive to the television stations and newspapers to NOT show up and therefore contain their message by not treating it as "newsworthy"

Just a few ideas that can be used lawfully against these nuts. The freedom of speech can go both ways.

My heart goes out to the father. Nobody should ever have to endure what he did at his son's funeral.
I am so tired of inbred, isolated prophets from backwards counties, who do anything and everything their psychological "id" tells them to do, and then claim their "id" is really Jesus speaking to them.

'Hundreds of grieving families have been targeted by the Westboro Baptist Church, which believes military deaths are the work of a wrathful God who punishes the United States for tolerating homosexuality.'

Don't you just love the bigotry of fundamental religious idiots who believe in fairy tales and not in heroism. They wouldn't be able to see reality if it hit them in their faces. Instead they have to take out their rage and homophobia on the dead and grieving families. Bah!

Perhaps a picketing of these lunatics churches and homes is in order. I'm not sure what the daily agendas should be, but UnAmerican is the first that comes to mind. Hypocrite is the second, (Love thy neighbor doesn't seem to be working for them.) I'm sure others have better ideas. (However, in no shape, way or form should violence be a "solution.")

Extremists of all religions and agendas are going to be with us for a while, but there is no profit in defaming the dead. The dead have gone on to their next level. Hurting the living who remain behind is just weak minded people who are easily led (funny, I think I said the same thing about suicide bombers.)

If someone would post Mr. Snyder's address, or an address where funds could be sent to help in this absolutely uncalled for insult, I would like to support him.

Once again, the weak minded and easily led blame so many others for things totally out of their control. This cult is even blaming the West Virginian mine collapse to support their ridiculous agenda. We live in a mortal world, and are therefore subject to mortal ails. Perhaps these fools think they should be immortal and place themselves on the same level as their deity? Once again--cult.

Fantastic ideas i_a_m! Voted up.

You are absolutely correct--we need to counter free speech with free speech.

(I really want to clip this to the Westboro Baptist Abomination group, but my membership is still pending. If anyone here is already in the group, will you please clip it there? Thanks.)

Only in America the absolute absurdity of some fanatics, this is beyond reasoning and the government should go and burn them down in the honor of those fighting for our freedoms.

Westboro Baptist Church is a joke..

I agree-this type of conduct lacks compassion for human kind. The people of this religious organization, need to be stopped. It is heartbreaking that any person can disrupt a funeral, particularly one of a solider, and it does not matter what their sexual orientation is.

The actions of this church and it's congregation are not protected by the first amendment and do not in any way represent any part of the Christian Religion. Further they do not represent any part of the American population except those angry wackos that we are doomed to have amongst us. I do feel sorry for them though as it is written "Judge not lest ye be judged". I am afraid that satin has inherited a whole congregation here. My sympathy to the family of this soldier although I understand that until this church is removed from the face of the earth nothing said will be of comfort. Signed a Christian and an American.

After this story ran on FOX (about two weeks ago), I immediately attempted to email the church.

Surprise surprise...site was down.

Just a couple days ago I started to email them again.

As I sat staring at the computer trying to figure out how to "get through" to these people, I realized there is nothing I could say to alter their "thinking" in any way. Plus I didn't want their SPAM clogging my inbox.

So although I'm burning mad at these people, I'll leave it to my God to handle their god (Mr. Phelps).

idiots (hope you don't mind me calling you by your first name :) makes a good point. As despicable as the church group's behavior is, it likely still falls under the heading of free speech, and like it or not, do we really want to do more to restrict that precious commodity? Using legal avenues to hit them in their pocketbooks should serve to teach them a degree of caution, if not reverence.

In the interim, my heart goes out to these grieving families, and I wish more of my countrymen could set aside their own agendas long enough to show a little compassion for others; that, far more than any legal remedy, would go a long way toward healing this country's wounds.

What about arresting on, Actions likley to cause a disturbance?

And if a few of them were shot, or beaten, Would the police really mind?

Just another man looking for money that isnt his. I understand his feeling might be hurt.

But give me a break, suing a church for monetary gain, thats just reeks suing anyone for monetary gain reeks.

if you are going to sue, sue for a reason but not for gaining money, if the lawyer are the own suing they should be disbarred.

but suing for money only means greed, good or bad it only leads to greed.

Curious responses. Defend the right to own a gun even with violence (militias) but becasue you don't like what he says you're willing in at least one case here to shoot a man who is merely taking the christian philospohy to it's logical limit.

As much as I hate what these people do, they have the legal right to do so.

Dave... you are wrong on both counts. They have the right to be stupid and it's consistent with a lot of what christians have done over the millenia, remember the inquisition and the crusades as well as the burning of witches?

oldphart....I don't think I even have to make a comment, but I will. What you just said here is indeed yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. They are despicable and cause hurt, you can cause real damage with your inciting to violence. Your statement is so much closer to not being covered by the first amendment than that misguided christian fool.

Jerry...you and oldphart are in the same camp. Shame on the both of you.

The only thing that can be done is to as mentioned by took, fight free speech with free speech. Counter-picket them or picket their church without losing what's left of our American ideals.

I believe the arguement Snyder is making to draw a comparison to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is correct. This behavior by this so called church will only result in someone taking the moral law into their own hands to even the score. At which point some one within that church will undoubtedly get hurt leading to more tragedy.

I am surprised various gay rights groups are not picketing Mr. Phelps' church. Seems only fitting that several thousand of the very people he hates turn the tables on him and his flock of hate mongerers.

It's eighty frickin people for God's sake (no pun intended)!

How hard would it be to form a group that would drowned out their ridiculous rants?

mrarcadian

in civil court all you can sue for is money

I think mr-archaic is missing the point entirely.

I find it sickening that the military that fought for our right to free speech now has to have it thrown in their faces like this group of idiots does. I like the yelling fire argument. There has to be some boundaries. Someone couldn't stand outside an elementary school and scream sexual remarks. They would be arrested. I like Clinthorace's idea. Next time they target a funeral the whole town should surrond them and sing, "God Bless America".

Wouldn't this group's actions be considered a hate crime? Didn't the President just sign something banning hate crimes into law?

I am not a violent person, and I certainly don't want or think that violence is the thing to do here....but....it would do my heart good to see these nutty, hateful, venemous creatures have their disgusting signs yanked from their hands and hit over the head with them, and then make a nice bon fire out of them. The signs, I mean, not the picketers. Although......

I don't know how these people haven't been injured yet. My husband has been to the middle east twice and (god forbid) if something would have happened to him and these fools showed up I really don't know what I would do. You already feel angry, hopeless, and sad....they are the perfect ones to take your grief out on.

mr-arcadian- Yes you completely missed the point. Taking away their funding is exactly the right thing to do. If they don't have money....then they can't travel and organize these things.

The first thing that needs to legally be done is for the IRS to take away the church's tax-exempt status. If it is a "congregation" of his family members only, then is it really a "church"? It is interesting that they even picketed the right-wing Jerry Falwell's funeral, and now the miners' funerals in WV. To claim that THAT tragedy is due to the gay community is totally outrageous. But so are all of the other claims by so many people that all of earth's tragedies are due to the gay community. Such claims are definitely NOT christian. These people fail to practice the very root of the "christian faith" and Jesus' ONLY commandment. How many of you really remember what that commandment was?

Love the Lord your God, with all your heart and mind, and like unto that, love your neighbor as yourself.

Just goes to show that too many christians don't love themselves when they spew such hatred. That's one reason I gave up on all christian denominations (all 37,000+).

I agree with idiot's post....make use of all five of his suggestions. If every person and/or group that has been affected by any of this church's protests would put into practice these five suggestions, and band together with everyone else affected, you would have a major movement to counter-attack this group of parasites.

I would call what Phelps is doing freedom of speech up to the point of invading the funerals of other people. Most graveyards are currently privately owned, and the owners of those grave yards should be legally entitled to kick these people off of their property.

I regard it as extremely offensive to allow Phelps to continue in the same direction. Sooner or later, he is going to get seriously beaten up and the people defending their right to personal space for a deeply personal event might get arrested or face legal charges.

Arcadia, I won't use "Mr." because you deserve no respect for that stupid comment! He is suing to bankrupt this guy and his brainwashed children, so they wont have the means to travel to these funerals and be a distrubance! Plain and simple. If he makes a few bucks out of this, good! He deserves it for taking a stances that others have been to lazy to bother doing!

FYI - There are groups that counter these "rallies" by standing in front of them with giant angels made out of sheets on poles to block the protesters from those attending the funerals and biker groups that face their bike's tail pipes at the protesters and rev the engines to drown out their insane chants. I forget the names of them but they do exisit.

danwill - the guy's 80 years old, hopefully we won't have to wait too long. On second thought, that would make us no better than them.

Cynthia- There is a way to 'get' these vile bigots and hate mongers. They can be put in prison. Why use a First Amendment argument of support.....attack the situation with REAL criminal indictments. There are many laws that are modern, court sanctioned and right to the point; crimes of hate, crimes of 'inciting a riot', crimes of discrimination, crimes of 'danger to society', crimes 'against humanity'. All of these and many more can be applied to this awful situation. There is absolutely no reason why a First Amendment protected right should or is going to cover up criminal activity.

This supposed 'church' group should not be given free access to anything. The allowance of church exemption from taxes and laws must be changed, especially in the light of terrorism and the rule of law.

If I was this man, I'd probably be in jail now because I would severly injure these loser protestors...you want to protest, great, protest the WH, not a soldier, what a bunch of disgusting people...If Mr. Snyder finds himself short of money to sue these idiots, I'd be more than happy to donate my money to help support his cause...Remember, these losers can show up at anyone's home whose children chose to serve their country as patriotic American citizens.

I send this message to Mr. Snyder, create a website to raise funds for this endeavor and I guarantee you will see my support in the form of cash...

ctdad- I agree with you 100%.

He does have a website. It is http://www.matthewsnyder.org/help.html

It will show you where to donate. It also has his son's story.

Fisherman144, you are right, I cannot believe they have not been charged with a hate crime. The sad part is that they showed up in Charleston WV when the miners were killed last week. Maybe we will be lucky and some of the good ole boys will take care of them.

Jeisun: Your post is exactly correct. Further, he did say, he would give the additional monies to military families-NOT KEEP IT FOR HIMSELF. These so called 'church members, are Hateful, ugly and have NO feelings for anyone except their distorted beliefs'. I'm glad he is going to be able to tie them up legally-MORE people should be speaking out against this Phelps and his ugly congregation. I'd like to know also, WHY IS THIS NOT AGAINST THE LAW, WHEN THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE"(and they seem to be making hateful rants against the military, who incidentally is protecting the idiots against any Terrorists who want to kill Americans). THEY CERTAINLY ARE INVOLVING THEMSELVES IN "POLICITAL MATTERS, SPEWING OUT THEIR HATREDS". THIS IS WAY OVER THE LINE WITH THESE IDIOTS, AND LEGALLY THEY NEED SOMEONE TO WIPE THAT HATRED OFF THEIR FACES. PEOPLE IN THE AREA, SHOULD WAIT TO SEE WHEN ONE OF 'THEIRS' DIES, OR IS HOSPITALIZED, AND PICKET THEM AND SEE HOW THEY WOULD LIKE IT.

This will be an interesting case. Clearly, these "protesters" have a right to say whatever hateful things they wish. And thank God we still have that right. However, the Supreme Court has long upheld that the place and time of free speech can be restricted.

For instance, you cannot yell "Fire" in a theater unless there is a fire. You cannot protest in front of an abortion clinic, harassing women wishing to kill babies. You cannot verbally assault someone, threatening to kill them and thier children. So there are some restrictions to the time, place, and manner of free speech.

Go to their website.

Their motto "God Hates Fags" plastered across an American flag, or their witty mantra, "God hates fags, send them home in body bags", are just plain asinine.

"God hates Westboro,

incest, Phelps and nasty hos"

I cant see this what they did as free speech. If they went and said all of this in the middle of a city or got a permit from the city to do this then yes free speech. BUT what they did is stalk this man and his family. They looked up who died, who they were, and where the funeral was going to be held. That to me sounds like harassment. The family had to go threw the service entrance of the funeral home to avoid theses people.What i would like to know is what are they doing to defend this country? I dont care who you are if you're willing to die for our freedom and go in battlelike my brother who's a Marine and is going back for the 3rd time. I am honored and grateful i dont care if you're gay or straight you're a person who shows bravery to go out their and do you job. Like the police, fire fighters, soldiers. If you work so keep us safe GOD BLESS YOU and YOUR FAMILY

Fanatical groups will continue to exist in America. Our Constitution gives them the right to picket at funerals and carry guns into political rallies where our president is speaking. But I really wonder if the framers of our Constitution would have sat back and allowed this kind of behavior?

The message of this group seems strangely familiar to Rev. Jeremiah Wright's oft-repeated sermon phrase: "Not God Bless America, God Damn America".

The pseudo-religious right condemned Wright's message as a ploy to undermine Obama's bid for the presidency. Where is the pseudo-religious right now, condemning this group's hate-filled message? Hypocrisy at its finest.

idiots_around_me: Good thinking. They had planned on doing a protest here (for teens that died in a car accident)... and they did in fact troll the newspaper and registered in order to make their statements (and feed off of comments against them).

Also, support those groups such as The Patriot Guard Riders and others that actively tries to protect military families from having to see these people. Also... if they are planning a protest in your area, step up and volunteer to be part of a peaceful counter protest (don't heckle them or 'prove a point' to them- they seem to get pleasure out of that)

They don't seem to like showing up when they KNOW there will be a large number of people that will protest them... they claim "safety reasons".

edsutt.. Slander is not a part of the free speach deal in the constitution,,,that is illegal everywhere in the USA , at least it is suppose to be..have know a few folks that got sued and had to pay out funds to the ones slandered. A protest is fione, have no problems with that myself, but outright lies that put down the integerity of any person is not right..if the supreme court sides with this so called church then you and the rest of this country will know just where our laws are going.

Slander is not illegal anywhere in the United States. Slander is a civil matter. You can sue someone for money damages if they slandered you. Phelps and his inbred group of followers are not saying anything about a specific person. They are not slandering anyone in particular. Their right to stand in public and hold vile signs and say vile things is absolutely protected by the First Amendment. It is not akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater. There is no clear and present danger of harm from the things they say. You cannot argue clear and present danger because someone might react violently to the speech. The only way to combat them is to do what is being done; show up and drown them out; support the family members of those they protest and simply make it clear that they are not wanted wherever they go.

Fred Phelps and his clan reinforces why theocracies are a bad, bad idea. Separation of church and state is such a wonderful thing.

I'm surprised the Christian community isn't more vocal in condemning this guy. His teachings suggest that the christian god is a vengeful god. In my opinion, anybody who tries to validate the literal text of the bible is into pagan worship (they are worshipping a book). Many Christians aren't taught how to interpret the texts in order to separate cultural teachings from the teachings that MIGHT (a big MIGHT) be divinely inspired. The resulting ignorance can be a recipe for something dangerous.

I always shake my head at the posters who speak in general terms; "Religion does this, Religion that, Religion bad, Religion wrong", etc.

But THIS group....well, they leave me speechless. They thrive on the shock value and it works to an extent. Time to fight back!

They had better learn some boundaries as well. For instance, if they came to my little Burg and pulled a stunt like that, they wouldn't make it out of town.

I'm surprised the Christian community isn't more vocal in condemning this guy.

Because having him and his families out front makes other right wing radicals look less so.

If you should want to act out against Phelps, remember the secret is to incite the protesters to violence against the counter-protesters with out provocation. The easiest way to do that is to get a few people to confront them and laugh at them. Not just laugh, but point at them and laugh so hard you fall on the ground. Laugh so hard you are crying. Ridicule is a weapon that was able to bring down Joseph McCarthy and I'd be willing to bet it would bring down Phelps.

It amazes me that some of you think that this is a fundamental right being attacked. The First Amendment was the brainchild of our founding fathers to eliminate the governments ability to squelch political discent. It was never intended to be a forum for those with a totally hateful and vile opinion to inflict harm on the innocent. It is freedom of speech to publish a pamphlet that will say any sort of vile crap, even to distribute it, not to inflict their point of view on the family of a fallen soldier, few others would even know it was going on. There is a moral imperative that transcends the right to protest, and if there ever was one this is it. If this snake, Phelps, is allowed to continue, he will eventually push the wrong person and there will be bloodshed. Lets just hope no innocents are caught in the crossfire.

We need to have a new constitutional amendment, the Freedom to Hear only what we choose to listen to. It has just as much validity.

I am from Kansas and I so hate that people know Phelps comes from this wonderful state. Here is the thing, he does have the right to free speech and I'm not sure what he has to do to make what he does hate speech.

But, does anyone know what wonderful thing came from this evil man and his family/congregation? The first soldier's funeral he showed up at was here in Kansas. People were so appalled and angry, but of course Americans have the right to freedom of speech. Even when it's people like this screaming at this funeral.

The Patriot Guard came from this event. Now they are at every funeral, and when the group starts shouting, the guards turn on their motorcycles and rev the engines. It's loud, but which would you rather hear? The sounds of motorcycles protecting your soldier's memory, or a bunch of maniacs full of hate? I'll take motorcycles any day.

One more thing. Phelps daughter works for the state of Kansas. We employ her. Her income from the state goes to support this group. I think his son works for the state too, but don't quote me on this, I don't know that for a fact. Our tax dollars go to support their hate. A little bit ironic, don't you think. We can't fire them though as long as they don't bring their politics into the office. I do hope their supervisors are watching for any slip-ups on their part. Actually, I pray for this.

I always shake my head at the posters who speak in general terms; "Religion does this, Religion that, Religion bad, Religion wrong", etc.

I always shake my head at the extremists that religion breeds such as Fred Phelps, David Koresh, Ken Ham, Osama Bin Laden.... need I go on?

What kind of a church promotes this kind of behavior anyway? There are some really, really sick people in this world and even they have freedom of speech, that is too bad but that is the way it is. We don't have to listen to these idiots though it is hard not to because they are so insane it is almost funny. I hope they all rot in hell, there are alot of other things I would like to say on here but I shouldn't. I will keep that to myself.

God Bless Mr. Snyder and his family

Speaking in general terms about religion.....Thanks for proving my point John.

That was like shooting fish in a barrel. But yes, please go on about how bad all religions (thus religious people) are.

How about state human dignity laws, that limits protests from funerals so that protestors can still protest, but they have to be far enough away that the mourners have almost no chance of hearing or seeing them during the course of the funeral service, itself? This could be 400 yards or some other distance.

River Dog "They thrive on the shock value and it works to an extent. Time to fight back!"

I agree, let's use our free speech amongst ourselves to discuss say- tax evasion, child endangerment, neglect, slander, harassment, illegal parking...just about anything we can find to remind them, for one -how miserable they are, and two -how miserable they should be.

I'd spit in their face and s#!% on their graves.

"...is merely taking the christian philospohy to it's logical limit."

Ferro - do you attend the Westboro Baptist Church? You seem to be a good fit and a logical ideologue for this group.

We should all back this guy - these people are evil - just as bad as terrorists who say they kill for God.

This must be the most hateful group ever. Apparently, they learnt everything from their religion except the most important part - love and compassion.

The one thing that is certain in all this is that phelps is obviously gay. People just don't jump on an obsession like this unless it strikes at the core of who they are. History is replete with vocal anti-gay people ending up being discovered and outed. The good news is that phelps is condemned to eternal damnation by his own god. Everyone knows that God looks at what is in a person's heart and the outward actions are merely window dressing.

There is no doubt that phelps's intention is always to cause emotional distress. Whether this is something that the court's will find is something actionable, I don't know. We'll see. But, all I can think of is that the best way to counteract him is to always have a bunch of people present with signs and shouting "phelps must be gay", "phelps acts so gay", "phelps must be outed", etc. Now, don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against gays and am for gay marriage. So, the idea isn't to associate him as being necessarily gay, as I wouldn't want to insult the gay community. The point is that phelps thinks being gay is bad. So, the way to get to him is to make that association. That way he will feel the consequences of his own actions. Heck, I've heard he sleeps with the boys in his family and frequents gay prostitutes. Now, nothing in that last sentence is untrue. But, imagine the torment that he would go through hearing that day after day. I think you get the point. Fight fire with fire.

Speaking in general terms about religion.....Thanks for proving my point John.

That was like shooting fish in a barrel. But yes, please go on about how bad all religions (thus religious people) are.

If you actually read what I wrote rather than what you wanted to read, you would have understood that my gripe is with the extremists. My point was that ignorance and religion are an unstable mixture. Did I prove your point again?

The bottom line is that these types of people are in "your camp". What are you sane religious types going to do about it?

I do not believe our fore fathers thought that people would use the "free speech" amendment to go to a funeral and harass those who are grieving the loss of their relative! Our fore fathers probably thought that NO ONE would be so trashy to ever go to someone's funeral and behave so low!

I don't understand why they are not barred from a private funeral? These are sick people and hiding their sickness behind a religion is so cowardly.

I support Mr. Synder and I hope that the Supreme Court favors this and bars protest groups from funerals. Death of a loved one and their funeral should trump any "free speech" amendment. I'm sorry, but the fact that our fore fathers never thought that crazy people would use a funeral for their bully pulpit doesn't mean we can't put a stop to it now.

The various legitimate Baptist Church denominations should join forces to file suit against the Westboro Baptist Church, for defiling the word Baptist. While Baptists are fundamental in their beliefs, the activities of Westboro are far outside the acceptable behavior of 99.999% of true Baptists. My son is currently in the Navy, if God forbid something happened to him and these idiots showed up at his funeral, I don't know that I'd be able to restrain myself, and I consider myself a Christian. This group is looking for trouble and its only a matter of time before they find it. The law and the courts better address this very very soon before someone gets killed due to a fit of rage directed at these very ill people.

delherren, hopefully those two children are part of the three that speak out against their dad and not one of the ten that fund his activities. If they are one of the ten, then hopefully your state officials will be able to find justification to fire them, and soon.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/112-fred-phelps

His financial support comes from members of his church, most of whom are members of his family. Three of his thirteen children have repudiated him and have accused him of being an abusive parent, but the others strongly support him with funds gathered from their law practices. Eleven of his children are lawyers.

Religion: one of the world's greatest force for evil throughout the world.

Cytnthia,

I could not have said it any better. It was not right to make him pay those horrid people all that money for court costs. I also hope there is some way they can win this. A loophole or something. Just as long as it does not effect what our founding fathers wanted in our constitution.

I cannot imagine the horror of losing a son to war. I do know how horrible it is to have a son in Iraq, twice.

How about: Atheisim: One of the greatest forces of evil throughout the world. Togerther Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot killed more than any religious fanatic ever did.

The actual line should be "human nature, one of the greatest forces of evil throughout the world."

I know this goes against all the talk on here, with which I agree, about picketing them, fight free speech w/free speech, but the other day I was stuck behind a truck that gave me an idea that might be fitting, it was a truck that pumps all the nasty out of port o johns, thought maybe a shower of poo would take the fight out of these nutjobs. 2 wrongs don't make a right, but it would still be fun.

Please everyone, I am a Baptist and the people of westboro "Baptist" church are not Baptists, believe me.

There's no question what Phelps and his inbred clan have been doing for 20 years is legal. They know the letter of the law and stick to it. How this will play out in court none of us can say. However, to all who think that when bigots target gays or women or minorities they aren't harming the entire body of a nation - think again. Organized hate groups - especially those who wrap themselves in legally protected religious status - are voracious. A little hate isn't enough for them. They feed off the attention thy get from making the vulnerable miserable. Most important, they need to gorge in order to satisfy their fractured agenda. For Phelps & Co., hating gays and lesbians is no longer enough; they choose to also lash out, bully and harass ... all American citizens who aren't in their group. Solution: donate to Mr. Snyder as well as to every group you can afford to that works to stop Phelps and his sorry ilk. And, regardless of how you currently feel about politics, write/email/call your Congress reps about Phelps. Hate groups only exist because 306 million Americans allow it.

May justice be done upon this hate group masquerading as a church.

I am no legal expert, but there are laws that do recognize limits in freedom of speech.

For example, not yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater. Is there not a similar legal principle that can be applied in this situation?

I agree with Brian, one day, they are going to picket the wrong soldier's funeral. Surely these actions may incite a riot, rage, or dangerous reaction.

How about: Atheisim: One of the greatest forces of evil throughout the world. Togerther Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot killed more than any religious fanatic ever did.

The following quote was taken from Mein Kampf....

The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.

That doesn't sound like the talk of an Atheist.

John:

I don't pretend to read between the lines or read minds. You spoke of extremists being bred by religion. I don't think you're on board with any form of religion and that's OK.

And no. They're not in "my camp". Whatever that means.

Go back and read my first post and hopefully you'll comprehend what I would do about them if they crossed my path. That is, as you say, "If you actually read what I wrote rather than what you wanted to read".

kate: They are barred from private funerals. They are not permitted on any private property. They have protested from public areas. That is their right. The tea party parades are also offensive, with their depictions of the President as a terrorist and a witch doctor, but they have every right to display their ignorance to the world.

Paddy:

You're right, ignorance can be displayed without recourse. We saw it with many Presidents, Democrat and Republican, throughout time.

The Tea Party is just the latest. Nothing more, nothing less.

I actually feel sorry that these people are so demented they actually enjoy practicing faith under their interpretation of a hateful, wrath filled, God. The Gospel (bible) in it's literal translation means "The Good News". I dont see how anything this clan is preaching to be 'good news'. They are lost.

With that said I'm most sad that those suffering loss are the ones that have to suffer their wrath. Peace be with them.

Riverdog and Paddy,

You guys need to broaden your news horizons. It seems you've fallen into the trap of following only what the main stream media chooses to show you. Yes there are some fringe elements to the Tea Party as there are with all organizations with political intent. Just like the democrat backing Anarchists that destroyed my capital of Saint Paul during the RNC. Complete with Molotov Cocktails, smashed windows, spat on supporters and burning cop cars. Remember that? Yet we did not label liberals terrorists and demand eradication. We were not afraid and understood them to be lowly criminal scum.

I understand there were groups there that protested and voiced their opinions peacefully, great! And we all understood that and moved on. For some reason you choose to only identify these fringe elements within the Tea Party as a whole. That's shameful yet I suspect you know it's exactly what you're doing. And if not I feel sorry for your woeful ignorance. Please educate yourself with the culture of today. The world is not black nor white. It is full of gray matter. It is actually an intellectual flaw to only see the black and white. At some point I hope you ease your fears and understand there's more to those demonstrations as you would like to and the media would like to lead you to believe.

I do not get my information from the main stream media. I have visited dozens of websites of so called tea party patriots. I have seen hundreds of signs and banners they carry during protests. I have listened to them on radio and tv and read their posts here. I agree, they are no different from the anarchists who trashed St. Paul or who roamed the streets here in Pittsburgh last summer. They add nothing to the debate, are woefully ill informed about the hisroty of this country and have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of our government and the content of our constitution. The extremes at both ends of the political spectrum are useless. I do not recall, however, MSNBC sponsoring the anarchist protests or having their talking heads moderate them. I do not recall MSNBC or any other so-called mainstream media outlet defending the anarchists. They are two equally reprehensible groups that distract us from what really matters, a government that functions.

Seems to me pepper spray would do some good if it were "accidently" sprayed at them.

amen to that....

A good offense is a good Defense. This pastor is probably living in the closet.

Anyway maybe somebody more disturbed will take him and his church out some day.

Correct big-Media did not voice support. They employ subtle manipulation through limited coverage, voice inflection etc. It's not always easy to see through, but is quite obvious when you step back and watch for it. It's actually quite comical. I agree that there are extremes at both ends and are equally reprehensible.

I myself while I don't attend Tea Parties I most definitely sympathize with them. I am an educated social middle but fiscal conservative independent. And yet I find it amazing that people can associate holding a picture of a witch doctor etc regarding a sitting president somehow justifies the emotional destruction of protesting a peaceful burial of a deceased soldier with images and shouts of hate. Mind you that's one instance among the thousands of partiers

If you actually read what I wrote rather than what you wanted to read, you would have understood that my gripe is with the extremists. My point was that ignorance and religion are an unstable mixture. Did I prove your point again?

The bottom line is that these types of people are in "your camp". What are you sane religious types going to do about it?

Bam! Exactly...Even as a Christian, I could not agree with this statement more. Extremist whackos turn a relationship with Christ into religious frenzy that looks nothing short of cultish. And it's the ignorant that whackos like these thrive on.

Christians - for a great example of why we are called to fully understand why we believe what we believe, read Daniel C. Dennet's "Common Sense Religion" if you find the opportunity. An atheist who's thesis hits the nail smack on the head regarding the largest problem with the modern church.

Christians of all people, should be the first to understand that just because you're free to do or say something, does not make it beneficial. Displays like this misrepresent Christ in the grossest way.

At the end of the day, we are called to represent him in the way that gives Him the glory, not with this act of total disregard for the soldiers that are called to fight for our freedom to practice what we believe, and the parents like this man, who sacrificed his child for it.

In that regard, these whackos are biting the hand that protects them. I hope the father wins and sucks that "church" dry so they cannot perpetuate more of this crap.

One thing Jesus had was love, tact and respect for man, especially in his grief and pain - all of which this cult clearly lacks.

The police of Westboro allowed this protest and therefore are accountable.

So, carrying a sign that says "god hates fags" at the funeral of a heterosexual soldier is hate but calling a gay congressman a faggot or a black congressman a @!$%#, as clearly happenned when the tea partiers rallied outside congress last month, is not hate? I am not defending what they do. They are despicable. But they are protected. The point is not to equate what they do with the tea partiers, but to show that if we start to allow government to determine what speech is ok and what is not we are on a dangerous path.

Somebody once told me don't judge Christianity by the action of Christians because we all fall short, we need the help and that's the whole point.

Jihadist hate has nothing on this home variety of hate. Amazing in this day and age that we're reverting to a 'witch-hunt' sort of mentality. Shameful. Disgraceful. Horrible . . . WHEREVER it occurs.

Paddy,

Absolutely not OK and IS hateful. My point is the congressmen you referenced are there to vote on a polarizing issue in which polls show the American majority did not support. They would be ill advised to not expect some venom. The Father of the slain marine was only trying to cope with his loss privately. Big HUGE contextual difference. One cannot lump all instances as one. That's nonsensical. Each case is different (gray matter). As soon as we lump it all together, nothing makes sense anymore. Example, school 0-tolerance laws.

Enjoy your day.

Agree Agree--please let me apologize to this poor man (Mr. Snyder) and his family and anyone else this whack job has tortured and offended--as a born again Christian I find the actions of this group from hell heinous and unjustifiable on any count. They are sick and twisted and I hope the court does the right thing and sides with all the abused families in this. God bless you and keep you and your family Mr. Synder...

Isn't the world full of enough hate? These sick people have nothing, nor know anything about the love and teachings of G-D. Until you are a victim of hate, and prejudice, you don't know how it effects you for the rest of your life. Eventually, they will live in their own private hell.

Mixman:

Why do I need to broaden my horizons when I state that this has happened many times....over time?

I guess I should have used that term "fringe elements" to make you happy. I thought everyone pretty much knows that to be common sense.

Seriously dude, lighten up.

Riverdog,

"The Tea Party is just the latest. Nothing more, nothing less."

That's somehow not all-encompassing?

It's cool just trying to inject some truth into the board.

Mixman: First, the polls only showed that a plurality of Americans, about 30% opposed the bill because it was too liberal, about 30 % opposed it because it was not liberal enough and 40 % supported it. Do not lump me and others who wanted a public option or a single payer in with those idiots outside congress, who represent a very small minority of public opinion. Second, the context of the protest is not relevant. The tea partiers were in a public place expressing their opinions, in articulate though they may be, on a matter of public concern. Phelps and his knuckle dragging offspring were in a public place expressing their opinion on a matter of public concern. They are concerned about homosexuality and despite the profound ignorance of their opinions, the are entilted to offer them in a public place. I am offended when anti-abortion activists parade ten foot posters of aborted fetuses where my children can see them, but I understand that they have the right to do so. I am offended when peopel refer to my President as a Nazi, a socialist, a terrorist, but i understand that they have right to do so.

Paddy, ... You have people that stir the pot anywhere you go.. in every race, religion, and culture. Judge the group for the behavior on the whole, not a few hecklers. Heck, even I know that you got some bulls in the most peaceful protests and sometimes you have "plants" there that is to make the group look bad. I USE to know a couple of people that loved going into protest groups and using racial slurs just to cause trouble- but who said all20 year olds had wisdom.

Basically you are going to have your bad apples (hecklers, racist, haters, extremist). Doesn't mean the whole orchard (movement, religion, race) is bad. It's up to the groups, congregation, chapters, and etc to deal with and remove these bad apples and hope that the message isn't lost or distorted by the individuals' actions.

I just read a comment near the end - I think it was #522. Great idea!

Want to really, really, REALLY piss off Fred Phelps? Have the Federal Government allow and recognize same sex marriage! That Phelps gang will have conniptions!!!

These people are sick and twisted, that is all there is to it. I am straining to understand their logic....they think all military deaths are because the country allows homosexuality. This kid was not gay. But instead of seeing him as a victim of God's wrath against gays, they protest HIM? Perhaps in their mind they were protesting HIS DEATH and not HIM, but apparently it made no difference.

And why did they protest the miners???

My only consolation is that someday Phelps will face God, who will show him his true wrath and send him where he belongs.

Oh spare me your bs mixman. Just because I didn't type to your satisfaction doesn't mean I am telling a lie. Go away.

Riverdog:
Typical answer when one has nothing to say... go away.

Paddy,

HAHA dude you need to stop looking at the surface! I agree! I only said majority of Americans oppose the Legislation that was voted on. Yes that includes Liberals that didn't think it went far enough. Point being, the PEOPLE (left right and in between) didn't want the bill passed. Yet it was. But that's a WHOLE OTHER topic.... for another day

.

What he needs to do is play that free speech game and protest those crazy people's church with a gay parade backing him up. Don't get mad, get even. That should work.

Nothing to say by blaming both sides equally eh? There's actually some intelligent conversations that happen here. Instead of being anal and correcting people, you should pay more attention to some of the content instead of taking out of context on Newsvine.

Sheesh! From now on it would be best if you are given a wide berth. Moving on.

Post Script: My apologies for any typos as well

Idiots_around_me.....I like all your ideas, but would suggest that those who protest outside that apostate "church" should be genuine Christians carrying signs saying that all members of bogus churches like theirs everywhere are going to live with Satan at death and admonishing them to become genuine Christians before their unknown date of departure, which is certainly the lovingly stated truth without reservation. That would be far more effective than anything else. Keeping them a very long distance away from all funerals is also an excellent solution. Municipalities everywhere could designate a large protest free zone around all funerals and other public gatherings.

I am not an attorney; however, it is clear to me that we cannot Constitutionally restrict the right of anyone to legally protest, so these other methods will be necessary to deal with this problem.

Although I am not an attorney, I am indeed a systematic biblical theologian. On the basis of sixty years intensive theological study of the Scriptures, I can say without the slightest doubt that these "church" people are deluded about their standing with God. They have bought into an entirely false concept of salvific right standing with their divine Creator. They mistakenly think they are on God's side in these matters, but they are tragically wrong. Because their ultimate motive is selfish, they are actually promoting the cause of their true spiritual father, Satan, in all they say and do.

While they may be correct in labeling some or many whom they protest as being on their way to hell, that does not mean that they are on their way to heaven. Their all important attitude is grossly unworthy of Christ because unloving. Scripture admonishes us to "speak the truth in love." To speak even the truth in an unloving manner is reprehensible in God's eyes and should be in ours. Those poor deceived souls are in desperate need of genuine biblically defined salvation (Luke 9:23), and we should pray down that blessing upon them as the ultimate loving solution to this problem. Do it now and until there is spiritual revival there (James 5:16).

Seriously...there's 70 of them, mostly his children and grandchildren, and they are ALL prophets? 70 prophets in one church group? Does anyone find anything a bit hinky about that statement? Wait until one of them passes away and their funeral gets picketed by non-believers...then they'll really bad upset. Maybe than they'll drop the military-thing. Thanks, Mike. Soudns like a good idea. Tat stuff burns.

I stopped attending church a long time ago... i don't find christians in church anymore, i find satan spawn. They have not hurt my faith and trust in the Lord, and it is better for my spirit not to mix with the evil of those who abide in groups that have a tendency to be gangs of another brand.

The Jesus I know didn't act like this AT ALL.

MKC: Certainly not all tea partiers are the racial epithet slinging morons who were outside the congress. And I do not beleive that they are all racist by any means. What I do not understand is what exactly do they stand for. Their very name is based on a lie. They claim it stands for Taxed Enough Already, as it taxes went up dramatically under this president. The fact is that the did not. To the extent that they do in the future, it is to pay for the unfunded wars, the unfunded prescription drug program; the long overdue reform of the health care system and to cover the losses to federal revenue caused by the recession. They offer nothing substantive, only bumper sticker slogans. They suggest that they are fighting tyranny, which is a pernicous falsehood. They claim the president is a socialist, another indefensible lie. If you ignore the extremist, you are still left with a buch of people who just want to complain, who repeatedly lie about the situation in this Country and who would have us beleive that a dictator came to power on January 20, 2009. They are either uninformed or willfully ignorant of the principles upon which this country founded and upon which it exists. Frankly, I have more of a problem with the seemingly normal people that are caught up in this fake movement because they should know better.

Mike40834563456078507845:

I would make the suggestion that you are somewhat confused (as is Phelps) about the definition of the concept of "Christian" if you are willing to chase someone around with a shotgun. Regardless of what it is loaded with.

No other administration has had to deal with such an informed public.

The public is angry BECAUSE they're informed. Something this administration wasn't counting on.

This administration has two ploys to fight opposition: Ignore or Destroy.

You can ignore the public, but you can't destroy them.

You can destroy the Tea Party, but you can't ignore it.

Hence, the paidstream media will have you believe the Tea Party is made up of every evil known to man. Thus, employing the "Destroy" tactic.

"Not gonna do it"

i don't understand how this is taking place . here you have a pastor of a baptist church and the statement is made that he has 70 to 80 members in his church that most of them are his children or grand children.how many times has he been married or how many wifes does he have. that is not a issue that goes a long with his clause of freedom of speach. seems to me this wolf wairing a sheeps clothing hiding behind the church needs to be stopped one way of the other. its bad enough this lifes are lost in a senseless war, then to have jack the ripper at the cemtery. plus all those kids. sounds like some kind of sick cult.....

I'm gonna defer to the community on. On one hand it's an assessment of how hated WBC is, on the other it's advocating killing.

Isn't that what the WBC is doing?

"Semper Fi, Semper Fag-Send them home in a body bag"?

I don't see much of a difference between these Westboro Baptist Church folks or any other Christians in this country.

The only real difference is that they have the boldness to make their intentions to destroy LGBT Americans known in public. Other Christians just keep their hatred in their churches or wait until they get in a voting booth to show their bigotry.

Also, based on what it actually says in the bible, they are correct.

To be a true Christian means you must hate everyone in the LGBT community or anyone who supports or defends gay and lesbian Americans, in this case the soldiers in the U.S. military.

*Freedom of Speech* is not a 100 percent all or none right. Walk into a crowded movie theater and scream - FIRE-....and watch yourself get arrested. Walk into an airport terminal and say *hello* to your friend Jack....Hi, Jack....and see how fast the FBI, CIA, DEA, ATF, and IRS are on your butt.

States all over America are passing laws which make it illegal to protest or picket at a funeral for military personnel. Why the laws are being written to ONLY protect service-people is beyond me, but it is happening as a reaction to the fascist Phelps cult.

I say if the Westboro Cult or the Phelps family applies for a permit to picket in your town....DEMAND that your local gov'ment refuse to grant the permit on the grounds that:

The organization requesting the permit is NOT a local based organization and therefore pays no local taxes to fund local public services...police, fire, emt, hospitals, roads, ect.

If the Phelps cult demands access....send them a bill for the cost of paying police, fire, emt, SWAT, ect....to be on extra duty in the event trouble breaks out due to the Cult's protest.

View the charge as the application fee for their *permit* for their protest. Show them that free speech isn't free.

Arcadia, I won't use "Mr." because you deserve no respect for that stupid comment! He is suing to bankrupt this guy and his brainwashed children, so they wont have the means to travel to these funerals and be a distrubance! Plain and simple. If he makes a few bucks out of this, good! He deserves it for taking a stances that others have been to lazy to bother doing!

It says in the article that any money that is currently being raised that Mr. Snyder does not use for court costs will be donated to veterans. I'm betting that whatever money, if any, he gets from this lawsuit will go to the same place. I don't think he really wants the money for himself - he just wants to shut these idiots down so they can't cause mental anguish for other families, the way they did for his.

I also am thoroughly disgusted, and to do this in the name of GOD??????? The people(if you can call them that) of this church need to read the bible again. Not only are they UNamerican they are alsoUNchristian! ABSOLUTE IDIOTS. As for the family who brought up the law suit I would like to help pay leagal fees, if everyone on this board just contributed 10$ that would be a wonderful thing. As for the church I would love to flood their mail boxes with letters letting them know the are going to HELL!!

I grow weary of bad behavior being wallpapered with the term "Christian" in an effort to make it appear acceptable or coming from a higher morality. It is irony at it's most bitter to see "Christians" performing such an unchristian-like act. They forfeit the right to proclaim themselves Christians when they substitue compassion with cruelty. Shame on them.

Fook:

Your angst is fooked up.

There are rules on the Vine that you agree to when you sign up. It's called the Code Of Honor. Break the rules and you pay the price. If you don't like the rules, go elsewhere.

A couple of other things to note. You're off topic and nobody gives a fook about your issues.

How about state human dignity laws, that limits protests from funerals so that protestors can still protest, but they have to be far enough away that the mourners have almost no chance of hearing or seeing them during the course of the funeral service, itself? This could be 400 yards or some other distance.

I should think this would be possible. It would be similar to the "bubble laws" many states have to keep protesters a reasonable distance away from abortion clinics. In addition, I know that where I live, when protesters decided to congregate in front of the home of a doctor that provided abortion services, there were existing laws that were used to arrest them. I suggest that everyone write to their state legislators and see if such laws would be workable.

If Phelps and his so called Baptists want attention, I say the REAL Baptists should give it to them. Call on your senior priests (as in the most senior leadership in the US or world if possible) to go to one of the rallies they have, them stand in front of him, then excommunicate/kick out (or whatever you do to people you want to get out of the church) IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA AND ON THE RECORD so they cannot ever claim to be associated with Baptists again. Then tell Phelps point blank that if he does not change the name of his church to something else, he will be sued for slander and libel by EVERY Baptist church there is in the US (currently thousands of them probably). If they church leadership would do this instead of merely passing a note to someone else who passes it to a member of the media then it would go a long way to clear the name of all the Baptists who have and want nothing to do with these hate mongers.

wow! are they trying to take the attention away from what the catholic church has done to children physically over the years, by using words of hatred....huh....or, is this another religion who is admitting that their real god is satan.....

they are purposely asking for war....why?????

can we draft them because they are living on free soil paid for by the blood of soldiers, and put them on enemy lines.....with the votes of the bigger population that is not baptist, i mean, how big do they think they are?

I agree as well. There is hope for this man's situation despite the group's right to free speech, and it comes from the Supreme Court. In 2004 the court unanimously ruled to block photographs, demanded under the Freedom of Information Act, taken by police of Vince Foster after his suicide.

Foster was a former White House advisor. According to the Boston Globe, Justice Kennedy had this to say in the decision: "Family members have a personal stake in honoring their dead and objecting to unwarranted public exploitation that, by intruding upon their own grief, tends to degrade the rites and respect they seek to accord to the deceased person who was once their own."

Let's hope someone reminds this Court of this Opinion and that it decides on the side of decency and compassion rather than on the right of any idiot to harm others just to make a point.

I am so glad to know that this group of people do not represent the true and living God. The God that I have come to know through Jesus Christ is a God of love. Love is His very nature. The Bible tells us that if we do not love then we do not know God, for God is love. He loves the human being. This group of people are hatemongers, they feed off of hate. If they don't get it together, what they are hurling at others and wishing on others will become their downfall. God grant this man victory over the devil.

Hate to tell all of you this but this group is not going away any time soon. You can ignore them all you want but as long as they're still people in that group/cult/church whatever, it will go on. Unfortunately the media will also cover their actions because journalism isn't picky these days. It covers Paris Hilton-It covers these idiots.

As a gay man, obviously I am disgusted with what this "church" does. But to picket a soldiers funeral just because he's a US soldier is dispicable and very sad.

I saw one persons comment about shooting them and then pleading insanity. Not an option. You might as well be one of them.

I have a very firm FAITH that God will punish this hate monger and his flock of idiots. The God I know is a fair and just God. Phelps and his family are the way they because of how they were raised/conditioned. I understand his son Nate left the family 30 years ago....good for him!

I really wanted to post this to show my support for this man and his family and to thank them for thier sacrifice. God would be very proud!!!

This man first gave us his son then he stood up so other people can bury their sons in peace. God Bless him and his family.

i want JUSTICE, i want a billboard of SATAN put up in front of their yard! NOW!

i want to see the frieght in their faces!!!!!!

mr-arcadian Its VERY obvious you have missed the whole point for this law suit. Mr. Snyder will most likely never see any real money, even if he were to win any suit. This demented group live on donations from fellow believers (unbelievable) and have no real money, he may succeed in forcing them to discontinue their website, nation-wide travel, etc. by having a judgment (lien) on any future 'earnings'. He isn't doing this for the money, its already cost him money in addition to the heartbreak, he is committed, obsessed with stopping these brain-damaged fools from adding heartache to an already painful situation. KUDOS to him for ignoring what this journey is costing HIM and people who understand should be supporting him emotionally AND financially. I know many on these pages are willing to do just that. I hope YOU finally get 'it' and become part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.

I'm sure the lawyer will focus on the 501C3 status of the "Church". There are very strict rules that prohibit certain activities to maintain their tax exempt status.

I am writing to the host of that aweful website, to hopefully have it removed. For anyone else interested, their address is: Cox Communications, 1400 Hearn Drive, Atlanta, GA 30319

Their policy states prohibited activities: Posting, transmitting, or disseminating content that is illegal, threatening, abusive, libelous, slanderous, defamatory, promotes violence, or is otherwise offensive or objectionable.

BlueDevilBasher You heart may be in the right place, but what you are suggesting would either be unconstitutional or do what so many of us want to avoid, punish the innocent as well as the guilty. Your suggestion would mean NO ONE who lived outside the area would be allowed to obtain permits, including political groups, charitible groups, even groups opposed to this kind of hate.

PistOff08 As I understand it, they are already outside any legal, physical boundaries when they picket. Unfortunately, its still well within earshot and eyesight of mourners, just like the anti-choice are still able to 'communicate' at clinics even though they are restricted. Unless you put a tarp over them they will be seen and heard. The solution is to take away their financial means so they are unable to travel, post, etc. Its done through civil courts, see Southern Poverty Law Project for precidents.

Just make sure you don't confuse them by putting a naked woman as satan, they might get horny and start molesting their kids!!!!!

i hate judgmentalism as much as anyone else, but in this case i think it's time this "church" drank the cool aide and got out of the business.

my thoughts and prayers go out to a hurting Nation, and the families of the amazingly brave men and women who put their lives on the line...

Phelps is a weirdo. There will always be weirdos. He and his family actually spend more time protesting at churches than funerals. I've attended two different churches that he targeted -- apparently they were too supportive of our men and women in uniform.

But he is only famous because the press magnifies his every move. Take away his podium, and the damage he does becomes miniscule. Snyder didn't even know they were there until the news brought it out.

That's why i don't believe in organized religion. Ever notice religious peoples God is the only God. And if you don't believe the way they do, you are doomed and going to hell. I believe religion is 90% responsible for most of the hate,war and murder worldwide. Its ridiculous. The year is 2010 and you would think human kind would have progressed further than this by now.

I find that it is almost ironic. These people,I will not call them christians,are "protesting" against the very soldiers that fight for them to have that freedom.My son is a veteran. I can not imagine causing more pain to a family that has made so much sacrifice. These people are ignorant. They should be arrested for hate crimes!!!

Diane-1530584 While I agree with much of what you have said, I take great issue with some of it. How is wanting to 'spit' on a returning serviceman logical? THEY didn't decide to be shipped to a phoney war, they were sent there by their legally elected leaders. Once we committed ourselves to an invasion, we were left with a MORAL obligation to stay and get the job done, otherwise the region would have been even more unstable and ripe for the growth of terrorists and the majority of the citizens being subjugated and the return of instablity at an even greater scale. Again, hating the individual soldier is just not rational and your are 'blaming' the wrong people. What I find ironic is the administration that sent our troops to the Middle East to install democratic values, is the same administration that introduced the Patriot Act, a law that's only purpose was to circumvent the rights of US citizens and the Constitution...but that's another 'story'. Please, direct your anger to the real culprits and embrace the troops who are returning with health and emotional problems we will never comprehend. Your committment to preserving and protecting the Constitution is equal to my own, but please try to see that this about our troops: They deserve our SUPPORT, not our anger.

I once heard one of the WBC lawyer daughters on a radio program . . . she refused to take calls and could not answer the host on specific Bible passages that WBC fully ignores.

However, one thing she did say was that ANY death is a result of God being vengeful. She believes that all deaths are directly from the hand of God. She even went so far as to say that 911 was not the act of terrorists but of God. Which begs the question: If one of her sons were killed, would she go against her preaching and blame the killer instead of God? Or would she follow her beliefs and blame the death on God's vengence?

who do these people think they are....??????

It's almost like Ireland where the protestants march down the street to piss the catholics off...

what happened to those without sin cast the first stone...or judge not lest he be judged...

and while they sleep at night those soldiers they are protesting against are out there fighting for their country ...

these people are heartless..

This group of people are an embarrassment to the Christian Community. They are the kind of people who make evangelizing impossible.

Christ said love one another as I have loved you. I have seen nothing but hate coming from these people.

Scripture says that in as much as you do this unto the least of my brethern you do it unto me. That means the good and the bad. So from my perspective, they are shaming Christ.

It saddens me that the government will look so hard for terrorists in unknown places when they are right here in the form of a "so-called" church. I could care less whether someone is a man or woman, gay or straight, any color, any race, any religion, any anything. If they are willing to stand up for our country and protect our people then I am all for them. I wonder who they would turn to if a terrorist bombed their "church"?

I am not sure what Bible they have at this church, but, the one I have learned from since in diapers says that God created all man equal. That we are to love they neighbor. I have read that the founder of this church bacame a lawyer and was then disbarred. HMMM. Then 11 of his children followed in his footsteps and became lawyers. I wonder how many wives this man had?

To the poor father: I give you all of my heart and prayers. I would start to shift your suit to push for slander. I know that Freedom of Speech is the primary action and you shold keep it that way, but, they have slandered your son on national television. This in part is a section of the liable area of the Amendment.

To the Media: What the hell are you giving these idiots media coverage for? All you are doing is feeding their egos and giving them more fuel to go on. I say there should be a Media black out on this group (I refuse to name them and give them any acknowledgement) and let them feel how the Freedom of Speech is really supposed to work!

I would call this so called church a hate group. If they went out and picketed and said the only good methodist is a dead methodist is that not a hate crime. This goes way beyond crossing the line of freedom of speech I am pretty sure if they came to the heartland where I live they wouldn't talk so loud. Oh and btw try to get to their home page hit and run jerks they need to be shut down plain and simple. Send them on over to Ft. Campbell and have them say hi to the troops.

Please,

for the love of all that is good and right, I hope no one kills this man at one of his funeral stops. That is all these folks need is a martyr

Very well said!

This reminds me of another group that likes to wave signs and protest idiotic ideas. I was about 20 when the local news at that time. Was going to cover a KKK rally at the state university out here. The person being interviewed was from the college. And She stated no one should even show up. How funny would it be if they marched around chanting to themselves.

Being curious of course I had to see what happened and it was just that the KKK marching with flags and signs all by themselves. PRICELESS.

This church condones hate. If they did this legally, than they do have the right to free speech. Just as I do here. In saying that this is what BLIND religion does. When you have a leader teaching whatever HIS slant is on a Book

.An old saying walk a mile in his moccasins rings true. Maybe he could sue for slander since his son was straight. Plus if someone is Gay in our military they still are serving us the people. And protecting us the people who cares what their preference is. We do live in a free country so let em serve. And good for you Mr. Snyder at least your voice has been heard around the globe.

Question everything

just to make things clear guys, cuz... i hear alot of...those without sin cast the first stone....

awh yeah.... Jesus was referring to a real stone, rock or type of weapon to hurt a person based on what they believe, or how they think....

but, words are debatable, so we must bring up, and freely speak of our issues, and... ideas

and thoughts....

so if these baptist believe what they say, and it bothers us what they say....then, we must debate on it....

or accusation, without allowing it to be made proven....

I grew up near this church and when I was younger and living in this area we would have dealt with this locally and and swiftly. The church members would have had the hell beat out of them and their signs shoved up their collective butts. Only then would we have given any thought to their right of free speech.

THe right to protest any action is guaranteed by the first amendment of the constitution. What there isn't in the constitution is the right to take another persons life. I think the idea that "god is punishing the U.S. for tolerating gays" is silly, specially in light of the fact that we are in a war that God would reject as immoral in the first place. But any protest regarding the killing of other people should be tolerated in a country of free speech. The fact that some people take offense at the thought of people objecting to actions by the most powerful nations military. OH, dear they need to get a tougher skin. As far as I'm concerned, every soldier that volunteers for the current illegal war is a war criminal, and if they in fact, have committed murder in that cause should spend the rest of their life in prison with no chance of parole. People like the fascist "Ol GLenn hasn't a clue what this country stands for, or what the meaning of being "free" is. It's the same old thing, if you don't like something you kill it or use violence to solve your problem, typical of losers. Bunch of Nationalist bootlickers that hate anyone or anything that disagrees with their rightous cause. These Nationalist's are what is wrong with the world. Neanderthal morons that are full of bigotry and prejudice and thinks might makes right. And to Maggie, What this Country's military is doing disgusts me. Dropping bomb on innocent people in other countries in order to steal their resources. It immoral, and it's murder. So who cares about a funeral for a murderer. Not me.

send this to Osama.....and the church will be bombed tomorrow

Anti-trust:

I'm not sure about his other kids, but the woman I'm referring to gave an interview to the Topeka Journal a few years ago about her and she does support her father and all his beliefs.

As far as I'm concerned, every soldier that volunteers for the current illegal war is a war criminal, and if they in fact, have committed murder in that cause should spend the rest of their life in prison with no chance of parole

Wow !!! Quite the statement !!

To slander the dead is the supreme act of cowardice. Who is going to protect the good name of the deceased? The government has passed law to protect the coward from physical retribution for their slander,it should now step in to protect the deceased, or amend the law to allow the relatives of the deceased to seek satisfaction on The Field of Honour.

KW @ 1.142 -

Though you are entitled to your opinion, what a divisive and arbitrary statement to the majority of United States citizens and to the very brave and heroic Armed Forces, who valiantly preserve your right by the First Amendment to disparage them here at Newsvine.

Thank you Sergeant's Mom. I haven't had internet access in a couple of days and I was just checking back on this thread.

My son, too, is a soldier. He is NOT a war criminal. Never have common soldiers fighting for their nation been considered war criminals. Even Nazi enlisted men, following orders during WWII, were not held responsible for the crimes of their leaders. Those in command or positions of authority were tried for their crimes. If there is such a thing as a "war criminal" in our nation, we have to look to the leaders who placed our soldiers in harms way.

My son has spent 3 out of his 4 years in the Army deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan, and South Korea. Before he leaves the military in February 2011 he will have spent 4 years outside of our borders making it possible for all of us to rant and rave about our personal views without fear of retribution from our government.

Thank you, Sergeant's Mom, for defending our sons and daughters who bravely face our enemies without flinching from their duty. It seems some of us need to remember the lessons we learned during the Vietnam conflict. Or, maybe they didn't learn anything from that experience. Perhaps some people are not teachable.

Even Christ would call them of the synagogue of Satan, they are doing works completely outside the fence of Christ and it should be a violation of some sorts. Since it is a private funeral it should qualify as stalking. The young man died for this country and forgive me my first impression is to put them well dressed in a military garb in the front lines and let them get a prophetic revelation of what that young man suffered for this country. The young man may very well be the saved one, despite whatever others believe and simply out of fellowship. We do not know and we should not judge but keep the door of Christ open for all Jesus brings in by His hand.A funeral is a sacred time for God to minister to all who are there, a time to mourn and be comforted....God does not interrupt Himself.

I so sorry there are those so fixed on self importance that they cannot see they too have left Christ. I apologize for them and for their great offence, it is not of the Church of Christ but something well outside His boundaries.

I also agree the Father is right in his choosing to take legal actions. To me this si a radical form of stalking and disturbing with malicious intent....a sue-able offence. Sometimes taking an action against this lets others know they can be out of line and breaking the law themselves...a necessary corrective action.

Again I apologize for what has been done to this man and his family. These individuals do not represent the Church of Christ but a hate agenda.

In the 60's and 70's they would have been refer to as Commi Pinko Fags.

To

disgrace
an Soldier in anyway shape or form is a

disgrace
to this country.

Someone answer me this. If the courts can decree a mandatory "safe zone" free of protesting and harassment around abortion clinic entrances, why do they not step up and do the same for funerals? It's a time for people to have their own private moments and it's not for lower life forms like these cultists to disrupt them.

But wouldn't this fall under disorderly conduct, too? They're in public, yes, but they're disrupting a private function. Or should we just wait until they're protesting then run over the lot of them with a steamroller?

There is no such thing as free speech anymore. Have you heard of hate speech? Well like it or not this should be protected under the 1st amendment. But no it is not anymore, you are no longer able to hate even if that is the way you truly feel. The Constitution has been reduced to a piece of paper no longer the law of the land. But we must blame ourselves for this. We have become the french. Thin skinned and no longer able to be criticized. Everything is offensive. It is time to wake up and remove the restraints we have put on ourselves. Why is the NAACP not criticized but the KKK is? Why are there Black Colleges but no White Colleges. Why is there a Black miss USA pagent but not a White miss USA pagent? Ask yourselves these questions and you will see we have done this to ourselves.

Jorge, good post.

Anyone who is familiar with my posts knows that I am adamantly anti- U.S. military. I am disgusted by our military, believe they have done more than bin Laden to encourage terrorism against the U.S., and believe that the war on Iraq is criminal as well as morally detestable. IMO, an ethical person would not be a soldier in Iraq. In other words, when I see a soldier, I want to spit. And I insist upon my right to state these feelings and beliefs here and now, despite the fact that I know most people here will them reprehensible.

I feel deeply sorry for this man, though. I feel nothing for the death of his son, but I feel very sorry for his pain.

And I also uphold the Constitutional right of this so-called church to engage in free speech and protest, despite how inhuman they are. If a group can gather to defend abortion -- the murder of innocent babies -- then this group should be able to protest too.

They staged their protest in a legal manner. They have the right to free speech. They will win before the court, or the Constitution is dead.

Jorge Alvear

We have done none of this to ourselves, The court system is doing to us.

And if we try to take back these rights that the courts are taking from us , will be labeled domestic terrorists.

As to this article, The solution a simple one, but can't or shouldn't be said here,

Diane

As Lawyer Joseph Welch said to McCarthy so many years ago..have you no shame? In a world supposed to be civilized cannot those of us claiming to have righteous beefs let the man bury his kid?

That should have said

We have NOT done any of this to ourselves, The court system is doing to us.

Diane-1530584- why don't you join their group. You sound just as vile as they do. I love your ranting about wanting free speech and the constitution. Who the heck gave you those rights???? The MILITARY (please picture me saying it very slowly so you can understand it).

As Lawyer Joseph Welch said to McCarthy so many years ago..have you no shame? In a world supposed to be civilized cannot those of us claiming to have righteous beefs let the man bury his kid?

Tom, of course I agree with you. I think it's horrible what these animals are doing.

But I have to defend their right to do it.

Freedom of speech is possibly our most fundamental right. It would take a great deal more than this for me to disavow it. IMO, to fail to support freedom of speech is un-American.

And I wonder where the dead soldier would stand. He probably believed, and people here have claimed, that he gave his life to protect our country. Our country IS the Constitution. Is it truly an honor to him to refuse the right to free speech and peaceful protest at his funeral?

These people did not disrupt the service. They maintained a legal distance and behaved appropriately. They didn't strip down to their undies and carry a 6 ft paper mache penis around in public either, so that's in their favor.

it's "traitor"

Yet they wonder why churches get burned down. who'd do such a thing to such a passionate place of god, or is this one a place of garbage. its just another moron who can get other morons to follow him. lets picket his church on sunday morning we can have signs that say the devil welcomes all, just step inside and have pictures of all the priest's they've busted sexing up children..

Diane...America is the free country it is today thanks to our military. The fact that you can publically SAY that you want to spit on any soldier, is thanks to our military. Both past and present. You feel nothing for the young Marine's death. Did you feel nothing for the 3,000 deaths on 9/11? This young Marine and thousands of other military are trying to prevent that from ever happening again. Thanks to them the people of Iraq are no longer being put through grinders, women raped, mass graves filled with Sadam's own countrymen and women executed at his pleasure. While he and his sons and followers raped the country of any wealth. Yet you will spit on their liberators? Of COURSE Bin Laden is p.o'd at the USA. He was before we went over there. Cite 9/11. If America is invaded on our soil, who do you think will be defending and protecting us? Those you want to spit on, that's who. You enjoy the fruits of their sacrifices, courage, and bloodshed. What an ingrate.

The biggest point that so many miss when using the 1st Amendment argument is that the openness of that Amendment, like so many of the others, does NOT draw a line on the issue of equal rights outlined in the Declaration of Independence. When does one person's rights end and another person's rights begin?

Go to this site on the US Constitution and click on the glossary links. Read the definitions of some of the terms, including "domestic tranquility" in the preamble, and you begin to see some of the problems that our courts have been faced with over the past two centuries in interpreting our founding fathers' document, and the subsequent other 17 amendments. Definitions that are NOT spelled out in a document directly become a problem of interpretation and "original meaning" disputes later. How can anyone know what the "original meaning" of something was 200 years later?

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

The Constitution does protect the freedom of speech of every citizen, and even of non-citizens — but only from restriction by the Congress (and, by virtue of the 14th Amendment, by state legislatures, too). There are plenty of other places where you could speak but where speech can and is suppressed. For example, freedom of speech can be and often is restricted in a work place, for example: employers can restrict your right to speak in the work place about politics, about religion, about legal issues, even about Desperate Housewives. The same restrictions that apply to the government do not apply to private persons, employers, or establishments. For another example, the government could not prohibit the sale of any newspaper lest it breech the freedom of the press. No newsstand, however, must carry every paper against its owners' wishes.

I am an old man now but when I was younger this never would have gone this far. The family and friends of the bereaved would have beat the hell out of these sickos and shoved their signs up their butts. In this earlier time the law would not have hindered us but likely would have joined us. At some point common sense and decency needs to take over.

To reply to Diane's comments is to give them validity, which I give none to but find myself with a pained heart to do so. I served with pride as all my male family has back to the revolutionary war, I, as they did so, because we believe in and still believe in who we are as a Nation. Those very truths she holds to be true, where an inherited right won and defended by the blood of our military, I doubt very much that nothing or anything in her life reflects any contribution to the protection of those rights she so highly claims to be hers.( Which legally they are ) but shameful that it is so much easier to claim something as she does and not be willing to contribute to maintaining that hard earned freedom, for freedom is not free and if not protected shall soon be lost. And all she can find are spiteful and reprehensible words towards those who have given the maximum sacrifice to defend those rights/ Those are not God given Rights those are rights gained and maintained by those who have not only just served in the military, but others as well, such as policeman, firefighters and many more who are will to lay down their lives for people like her. Shameful

By the way can you justify why they went and protested at the W. V. mine ?????

BTW, has anyone looked at their POSTED picket schedule? When do these people work? What is their source of income that they can afford to travel all over the country picketing even other churches? Notice that they don't even use their church name for their website. Of course, my response back at them is, "If "GOD" hates fags, then why did HE create us?" Homosexuality has existed in nature probably since day One, in many other species as well as the human species. If God hates "fags" so much, then why has He continued to allow them to exist? I guess they also don't know the real meaning of "fags." It's a bundle of matches, hehe, and often used to refer to cigarettes as well. I'd go along with God hating the latter version of fags maybe, but then again He did create tobacco too.

http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html

"Why is the NAACP not criticized but the KKK is?"
Umm... because the NAACP didn't historically begin with the sole purpose to harass, abuse, and kill white people?

You know sitting here reading these comments about free speech and the constitution and the comments by those of the mindset like Diane, makes me wonder- lets go back in time to the beginning when our forefathers first came here and fought for the rights that everyone takes for granted each day - lets see if these people were back in them days exactly how long they would last? Lets go back not that long ago when Women were property and had no say - yes, we have progressed and we have grown, but at what cost - the fact that hundreds of years ago blood was spilled for our rights and our voices and now its all a matter of its owed to us? Its not, we are given the right to have free speech, good or bad, but there is also something called common sense and respect for our fellow humans.

And I love the hypocritical way these people hide behind the free speech first amendment and yet really have no respect how we got it and who it is that lets us keep it, our Military is the best, they sacrifice their life for the sake of all - yes even Diane, and if someone like that can't hold up the respect that they deserve and have earned, then go live in a country that has no rights, and or respect towards anyone - see how you would make it in that world - however, people like Diane will never choose to live that way - why? Because its easier to disrespect others than to walk a mile in their shoes.

I can almost imagine that once a disaster hits, these are the people that are first in line for help of the government and the first to complain when they aren't given what is "entitled" to them, but yet as long as they are fat, and happy and have a voice - they are all over the fact that it is easier to complain about the men and woman of our military who have allowed them to be here and live as they please.

I believe that if you can't respect the way we have achieved our rights then I think you should not have the rights. If you can't respect other Humans then you should have no respect

Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder, 20, was not gay. But for the Westboro church, any dead soldier is fair game. Pastor Fred Phelps oversees a congregation of 70 to 80 members — mostly his children and grandchildren. They consider themselves prophets, and they insist the nation is doomed.

This says a lot about this church. So this soldier was not even gay and yet they taunt soldiers because Marines are accepting gays. And they call their family members prophets? Give me a break. This is the height of bigotry! All the best to Mr. Snyder and rest of the victims.

Unfortunately, free speech is not immuned from stupidity and bigotry. Court better step in and declare it a hate speech!

Anti-Trust,

I don't think this is going to be your average, run-of-the-mill, fundamentalist response. Though I consider myself to be a conservative, fundamentalist-leaning Christian, you're not going to hear hate speech come from me. I have awesome friends who are gay, and they know I love them just as they are and they know exactly where I stand on the issue. I believe it is sin, but I don't think it is any worse than, say, gluttony (and I don't see many overweight Southern Baptists preaching that!).

Your question asking if God hates gays why did He create them has a simple answer. He doesn't hate gays. God does NOT hate gays! Sadly, these people hate gays. God, on the other hand, absolutely loves them, with a crazy, unbridled love! What disappoints Him is the sin. But guess what? He is disappointed by my sin of gossiping, or lying, or unrighteous anger, etc., equally as much. And that's what the hypocritical "Christians," who have made so many people disgusted with the church, fail to realize. Sadly, it is pride and a flase belief they are somehow better than the next sinner down the road. Christ doesn't see it that way.

I am SO sorry for this father for having to go through such an ordeal brought on by those who proclaim the name of Christ, and spread lies about God. That is what they are doing - spreading absolute LIES. God is love, and God loves, which is why He sent Jesus to die for us! And He loves us despite the choices we make in life. Yes, there is consequence for our sin, but if we choose Jesus in this life, He promises our sins are forgiven (no matter WHAT those sins are!). God mours with us when we are broken-hearted, He is slow to anger, full of mercy, and He has compassion on ALL that He has made. this church group must not have read that part of the Bible (and it IS there - Psalm 145:8-9), and if they did, they have ignored it. If they truly knew Jesus of the Bible, they would not be saying such things. They would be preaching the same love Jesus showed when He willing laid down His life for you and me, and yes, even for them.

Nut groups like this will always exist (and should always be fought). However, do we really have to reward them with tax-free status because they claim they're a church and on a mission from God?

I'd kick the guy some bucks to pursue a defamation lawsuit against these lunatics. That case would have to have more legs than a 1st Amendment challenge.

Tell you what Diane. I think you are deluded and brainwashed to the point where you would refuse to see reality is someone hit you in the face with it.

I see your comments regarding the military and I can only shake my head and wonder what state the country would be in if there were more who shared your beliefs. If it wasn't for the military, you would not be an american, you'd be british. If it wasn't for the military, you might be speaking german or japanese after WWII. If it wasn't for those who put in a uniform and go in harm's way, you would not on here telling us how much you hate them.

I've taken an oath 5 times in the past 20 years to uphold the constitution. How many times have you taken an oath? I'll defend to my death your right to free speech, but the fact that you use that right to spew hatred for those who protect you really pisses me off and I'm going to use my right to free speech to tell you that. How dare you insult the very people that protect your rights? How dare you?

This "church" is nothing more than a front for someone to spew their hatred. the fact that they were "legal" does not remove the fact that they are immoral and downright tasteless to protest a family who was doing nothing more than bury their dead son. A son who died because he was part of a group that protects YOUR rights. for that, they should be stopped.

If I see you on the street, I will not spit in your face. I will continue walking.

Diane:

"Is it truly an honor to him to refuse the right to free speech and peaceful protest at his funeral?"

The problem is, these are not "peaceful" protests. They yell hateful messages and have signs with disgusting messages, and even violent images (such as Bloody Obama). This is not a peaceful protest at all. They are there only to harrass the family and enrage people so they can get their news coverage. Or maybe they can insite violence so they can sue. That's what it's about for them. They want you to get mad and punch them so they can sue you... that's why they video tape almost every protest. That's why they're all lawyers.

And what is the point of their protests? To protest the military? Why do it at such an emotional place? Why not protest outside a military base, or the White House, or the Pentagon? There are places that are more logical, but the "church" knows they won't get the emotional response they want at places like that.

This isn't about free speech, this is about human decency. This is about respect. While you may not agree with the military and its policies, the place to protest that is not at a fallen soldier's funeral. Westboro absolutely has the right to their hateful, disgusting way of life, and to say what they want, but there should be regulations in place about where they should be able to say it.

They shouldn't be able to protest outside of schools (which they do on a regular basis). Children should not be subjected to their hateful speech. And they definitely shouldn't be able to do it outside of funerals where families have no choice but to listen to it while they are trying to have a private moment to say goodbye to a loved one. There is already the "Respect for Fallen Heroes Act" that was put in place in 2006 that prohibits protesting less than 300 feet from any entrance of a cemetary owned by the National Cemetary Administration an hour before or after a funeral. Why not expand that to privately owned cemetaries, churches and funeral homes?

That way Phelps and his clan can still act on their "freedom of speech" and families can have their private moments to say goodbye. And maybe if Phelps and his family can't get the screen time that they want, they may abandon their crusade. Because it's only about publicity and money for them.

Anti-Trust........The Phelps-Westboro clan.....fund their protest trips with lawsuit money they win by taking to court anyone and everyone who dares to stand up to them.

The United Kingdom has banned them entry. Too bad America doesn't have the balls to do the same.

BlueDevilBasher Thank the architects of our Constitution and laws that we don't ban something just because we don't like the message or the people. There are other ways of stopping this group, first is to convince local and national media that covering these haters activities is not news anymore and the American public will not tolerate their continuing to give them free access to our living rooms and attention of any kind. The media has a bottom line, too. They cover these types of events not for news worthiness but for ratings and number of viewers. WE have to stop being obsessed with freaks and then let the news organizations know how we feel. This group has often said they do their attacks BECAUSE they know they will receive attention. Treat them like the naughty infants they copy, ignore them and eventually they will stop. Take away their funding (Mr Snyder's avenue), their audience and their platforms.

Magnolia:

And they definitely shouldn't be able to do it outside of funerals where families have no choice but to listen to it while they are trying to have a private moment to say goodbye to a loved one.

Now that's a good point. People should have the right to not have to listen. Just like I should have the right to use the street my tax dollars pay for without having to view nearly naked homosexuals with their genitalia floats.

But I thought the article said they were 1000 ft. away? Am I wrong about that?

Aggie, Aggie, Aggie --

Darling, do a little research. Educate yourself.

And to all of you who have made the point that I get to say I want to spit on soldiers only because the soldiers protect me, I say HOGWASH.

The military in Iraq has all but destroyed our country. We are despised the world over because of them. There are people who would openly celebrate if we were attacked, there are people who would secretly smirk. But the only one in the whole wide world who would be upset is Israel.

And you think I should feel grateful for that?

Diane.

You get the Rodney King Humanitarian Award for the day.

Kudos.

Couldn't agree more. When I first read this article, I was so stunned, I almost felt like a deer caught in the headlights. It's appalling almost beyond words.

Diane, sounds like you need to find a new country to live in if you hate this one so much. Get lost! I won't miss you, and neither will our fighting men and women.

Hurd

SGT/USMC

If you want to blame someone for what our soldiers are doing overseas, then you need to take a trip to the white house and congress. The military is required, by law and by oath, to obey all orders of the commander in chief. (In case you don't know who that is, currently, Obama holds that title).

We are not despised around the world because of our military, we are despised because the last president didn't understand or care about world opinion and the current one is making a mockery out of us by apologizing to everyone and he doesn't understand the world at large either.

Tell you what. Go to Iran, or Indonesia, or one of the third world countries in south american or africa and spit on one of their soldiers. Want to take a guess on what would happen to you?

Unfortunately, that won't stop them. Disturbing the peace isn't even an offense that results in jail time in most jurisdictions. The person(s) are usually just issued a summons to appear in court at a later date then just fined. This would put the family right back out on the streets or on their way to the next family's tragedy. It would remove them from whatever funeral they were picketing, but at what cost? They would be vocal, verbally combative, only furthering their purpose. They want people to confront them, they use it as an excuse to be louder and more disruptive. According to an article in Time, I think, they admit that is what they hope will happen every time they picket a funeral. They know the system and they use it.

Because they weren't disturbing the peace, Mike.

They were engaged in a legal protest.

Diane -

They were harassing a grieving family. That family is not the source of policies these kooks object to....so the grieving family should be left alone.

If these religious "quacks" wish to express their views - they should go to Washington or to the member of Congress in their area who directly connects with the policy decisions they don't like, and demonstrate there. THAT is free speech.

They ARE disturbing what little peace a family has after losing a loved one. They lack respect for the feelings of others who are suffering. Look at the hell they are putting this poor man through.

The religious extremists in this country seem to have no manners, no sensitivity, no tolerance, in some cases no morals (murder), and the connection between their brains and their actions is seriously in question. If they want to marry their cousins or dress like Quakers in the 1800's or handle snakes, no problem. Just leave them out of our politics and the decisions that make up the rest of our daily lives. Their religion is personal - not public. They can practice it as the constitution allows, but it should have NO say for the rest of us.

Dee Too: They were not disturbing anyone at the funeral. If you had read the story, you would have read the portion that stated that they were over 1000 feet away from the cemetery, on public land. And also even beyond that, the man did not even know that they were there until after the funeral service, when he turned on a television at the wake.

But I still think that they are all total wack jobs. And if there is a heaven and a hell, they are all going to be extremley surprised at where they end up.

: ^ O

Gary Cooper You are absolutely right, the law protects them. Now, we need to use the law to slow them down. Writing new, unconstitutional law to address this issue isn't the answer. There are civil and, hopefully, some ordinance/laws that can also be used, no matter how obscure. I would have to defend the Constitution, even if these freaks of nature were the face of any defense, understanding it was the CONSTITUTION I was defending and not them. Then I'd work my derrier off finding some legal means to prevent any group from adding further heartache to grieving families through their hateful means of 'getting their message out'. Like you indicated, they can't be stopped by the suggestions made so far, we just have to be more intellectually 'creative', even using unconvential ideas, in finding the legal means that will work.

You're right Joaquin, they are MORE of a CULT, with Politico Pig rhetoric-certainly NOT in any way moral, or Christian. Just as the people in S.Francisco marched right into a church to protest, perhaps the good people in THIS town, can do the same to the so called Church of Phelps. See how they would like it to be imposed upon by those who 'don't like their hypocritical congregation. How about it folks-care to teach them a good lesson?

Those that speak about the Constitution and our rights, should also note, that Obama has put a 'lock on Certain words-Like "Muslim/Islamic Terrorists"....soooo, if HE can deem what we are "allowed to speak of or NOT, shouldn't WE have the right to say that THIS type of hateful speech against a soldier and HIS family is also NOT acceptable?" Just asking, since we seem to have the "P.C. Crowd here-deeming what OUR FREEDOMS ARE.

Not saying we shouldn't keep an eye on these idiots - for god knows what they might come up with next; however, with this type of fools the more said about them the better they like it, it is grist for their mills.

If the property is public, do they not have to get a permit to assemble? If the property is private, can't the property owner call the police for trespass?

And then just ignore them. They are nothing but co-dependent fools. There is no excuse for them, and as I said, keep an eye on them to see that they don't do anything worse, but ignore the chaos creating idiots. That's what they want, attention!

Secondly, I have to answer some of this PC crap, as well as "our freedoms are being taken away" statements I see on this board. Didn't your mommas and daddys teach you just plain good manners and courteousness. If you want to lie, or say hateful nasty things, I guess that is your perogative, however, most of those with any intelligence or grace tend to self-censure ourselves from saying hateful things, lying, or spewing vitriol at others. Having said that, I certainly have not had any of my freedoms taken away. I still can do exactly the same things I have always done, I can be stupid, I can say mean things, I can act sane or insane if I choose. I just choose to act sane. So, who has taken your freedoms? I'm 66 years old, I have the same freedoms now that I have always had. No one has taken anything from me, certainly not my government.

Jo: A policy - not forced upon you - but a choice that the administration wants to make to not "label" everyone and everything is NOT taking away YOUR freedom. You can say anything you want. This is just the rhetoric spewing that goes on. Please tell me what you can't say? All this rhetoric is is illusion, nothing more.

These Westboro people are beyond scum and deserve any bad thing that might befall them. However, as an attorney I agree that the SCOTUS should take a very cautious look at any ruling relating to free speech and the constitution. While in this case it is natural that everyone would like to see the court rule that Westboro was in the wrong and rule in favor of Snyder, the reality is that kind of ruling could have serious negative consequences to future cases. Our legal system is a precedent based system - meaning that courts look to previous rulings to decide subsequent cases. Say the court rules that Westboro's actions were not free speech because of XYZ reasoning. Then 3 years from now another case comes before some other court in the country that the circumstances are such that we, the general populous, all equally would want to see free speech upheld. But the attorneys for the party trying to strike down the free speech use the XYZ reasoning from the Westboro case as precedent and the court is bound by that precedent and has to strike down the free speech whether it wants to or not. Then 5 years from now another case uses both the Westboro case and the second case to strike down free speech again. That is what we call the slippery slope. Courts, especially the SCOTUS, cannot rule in a vacuum on just one case - the ruling affects all cases thereafter. So, while I would love to see Westboro have their rear ends handed to them on a platter, the SCOTUS needs to be very careful in how it rules.

Remember, the courts don't make law, they only interpret it - legislatures make law. So a good solution for the Westboro problem is to have every state, county, and city pass a law making it illegal to protest a funeral within 5 miles of the funeral (or something to that effect). That won't restrict the free speech element but won't expose the families to such lunacy. Then amazing groups like the Patriot Guard Riders (see www.patriotguard.org, these guys are so honorable it makes me cry) can show up and drown them out so the rest of us don't have to hear them either. The Westboro morons are fanatic lunatics, so reason won't work with them, but making their protests ineffective, difficult, and useless just might.

I have the right to vehemently disagree with the contemptible and soulless actions by this sorry excuse for a Church against the honor of our soldiers, dead and alive.

I also have the right to personally condemn Fox news for their outright lies, innuendo, and hogwash journalism that serves to foment political extremism in this country.

I would fight to the death to defend their right to do so.

Are they breaking the law of the land? Not my call.

Wow! The Westboro Baptist Church is really f**ked-up!!

Yeah, makes you wonder why the moderate Baptists aren't speaking out and standing up to them. You'd think some moderate Christian groups would start protesting THEIR protests.

flbikerchick, me thinks they are quiet because perhaps they actually agree with Westboro.

Kinda like moderate Muslims not condemning the actions of Islamic terrorists.

Hey, if the shoe fits...

BJ, I guess you assume that if Muslims don't post on Newsvine then they aren't speaking up.

Try a little research and you'll find scads of protests by moderate Muslims, including books, speeches, and candle-light vigils.

flbikerchick: I'm sure there are a good number of moderate Christians who are posting their disgust on these pages. But, I agree that they should do it as an identified group, not anonymously on a net vine. Especially Baptist since this is what these nuts decided to call themselves.

I wonder how the people who are defending, this group would feel if they showed up at a funeral of one of their loved ones?

Jeisun - just ignore Diane. People like that are un-American and probably post to get a rise out of others. I suggest "ignore this author". That way you don't even have to read the senseless crap she is spewing forth.

Just so anyone knows, I'm not someone who would tell another person who disagrees with me to "shut up". (tempting, true, but I won't do it)

I disagree with Diane's assertion that Muslims have spoken up - some may have, but as a whole, they have been awfully silent.

I dunno, I know a lot of Muslims who are quite verbal about the extremists, in America and all over the world.

In my head I know that those students have exactly the right idea. In my heart, though, I'd rather reach for a baseball bat. (Shame on me.)

There's no shame in being a baseball fan.

There are always controversies about freedom of speech but SCOTUS has nullified it in the case of abortion clinics so why not here? As ye reap............

Agreed. The community organizer is very furious at anyone who disagrees with him and he uses all the power he can muster to attack private citizens (liberals have no problem with this at all). Extrapolating this out, the teleprompter reader in chief will never try to silence these protesters because deep down, he agrees with them. He would rather we bow to them and accept Muslim rule in America.

If you would like to give a donation to help with Mr. Snyder's expenses, I have posted the link and addresses below.

Pat,
Please go to www.matthewsnyder.org or http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=355406162379&ref=ts.

My contact information is below and can be found at http://www.barley.com/attorneys/bio.cfm?attorneyID=122.

Feel free to forward this email. Thank you so much and Mr. Snyder thanks you as well.

Whenever you people don't like what a church does, you always insist they are not Christians, but a cult. But Muslims are terrorists, aren't they?

As for your sweet and naive beliefs about how the military protects you, I just shake my head in wonder. The military has given more toward the recruitment of terrorists and the hatred of America than bin Laden could ever have dreamed possible.

But if it makes you feel good to ignore facts while spouting nonsense, what the heck.

Diane, it is not the military, the troops are just following orders. Some lowly corporal did not just wake up and decide to go to Iraq, they were given orders from higher up, and ultimatly those orders came from politicians all the way back to the president. But thanks to those lowly soliders you can post your views on message boards like this. If you were in China you would be in jail by now for similar views.

You fault a person for trying to better themselves by joining the military, not everyone is born into "good" situations. Many of the military enlisted are there so they can earn money for college and gain skills so they can better their lives after the military.

I agree that people have the right to free speech, but that should not be allowed in a place where people are laying their children to rest who died for their country.

Well, I guess we should all just be shut up, sit down, and allow the Taliban and Al Quida, et al run amok over everyone, including us, so we don't ruffle their feathers. They hated us and attacked us on 9/11 and other instances because the don't like our traditions, culture, etc. without any provocation on our part. They simply want anyone who does not aspire to their lunatic traditions annihilalated so they can rule the world.

You, young lady, are spouting nonsense.

Aggie,

What does the Taliban and Al Quaida have to do with this discussion? They are political groups who use religion to leverage they fanaticism.

The Phelps' and their Baptist Church sound pretty similar...they are using religion to excuse bad behavior.

The American religious extremists - our own home grown Taliban....

Diane..I am a 53 year old Army brat and proud to say it too. My Dad was in the service for 30 years before he retired. He is one of the reasons why you can sit on your nice cushy chair it front of your nice little computer and post the crap you do!! Do you think that those men like where they are, well I can tell you from experience no they don't. But they have a job to do and they do it. No not all Muslims are terrorist either. I personally know several Muslim families who do not agree with the Taliban or Al Quaida beliefs. Now as for this so called church...are you going to tell me that a Christian church would even consider doing what this " church " did? I don't think so. So yes to me any religious congregation that goes around proudly doing what this one does is a cult. Let me ask, you would you go to a funeral of a military family and protest the way these scum did? If your answer is yes then do me a big favour...next time you see someone in the military Thank him or her first for fighting for your rights before you go off on them.

Dee Too....You're kidding, right? You see NO connection between this topics discussions and the Taliban and Al Quida. They use their religion to "leverage their fanaticism". This Phelps group uses religion for that same reason.

Al Quida or the Taliban killed this young man, and many more like him. Phelps rejoices at their deaths. Still think mentioning Al Quida and Taliban has nothing to do with this discussion? The Phelps group is no better than the terrorists, using their religion to justify it. But they shouldn't call what they are and practice "religious" or in the name of God. God, I'm sure, certainly doesn't want them heaping more pain upon the parents who have lost a beloved child. As the saying goes...Phelps'...God'll get for that.

JC --

You fault a person for trying to better themselves by joining the military, not everyone is born into "good" situations. Many of the military enlisted are there so they can earn money for college and gain skills so they can better their lives after the military.

So according to your scruples, it's acceptable to murder women and children in order to better your life?

That is just SICK, buddy.

mustangcat:

Let me ask, you would you go to a funeral of a military family and protest the way these scum did?

Of course not. I wouldn't go to anyone's funeral -- military or otherwise -- and cause a scene. Where do you get this crazy crap? Are you hysterical all the time, jumping to stupid conclusions and making crazy accusations, or is this one of those days you forgot your meds?

I said these people have the legal right to protest. I said they have the right to protest even if you think their protest is disgusting, as do I. I said it's stupid to insist that people have the right to protest only if you, or the even the majority agree with them. I said the right to free speech includes speech that you may not agree with. Get it? Can you follow it?

No, I didn't think so.

Diane-1530584: "So according to your scruples, it's acceptable to murder women and children in order to better your life?"

Diane-1530584: "Where do you get this crazy crap? Are you hysterical all the time, jumping to stupid conclusions and making crazy accusations, or is this one of those days you forgot your meds?"

Um... Hypocritical much?

Diane you need to take some reading comprehension classes. I never said you WOULD do this I ASKED if you would. So who needs to be on the meds now huh!!!!! Also if you were smart enough to read my comments you would see I never said people don't have the right to protest it's just the WHERE!!!!!!! Protest the leaders and politicians not the FAMILIES of these BRAVE MEN!!!!!! You are the one that looks like a total jerk here not me. You call theses men baby and women killers, well dear you need to go back to history class and see how many children and women have been killed right here in America in the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. So please do not patronise me when it comes to history or the military. I excelled in both thank you very much.

Diane did your doctor give you some pills you stopped taking?

Do you even know what is going on in Iraq? Our troops are not there killing women and children, they are protecting them if possible from wackos who have no problem filling a car with explosives and driving it into a school. All because they fell women should not be educated or what about a bomb at the market where women and children are shopping for food? You appear to be their poster child and agree with this. But this topic is not about what we are doing there. It is about the wack jobs here, so I will not fuel your disillusion any more.

We can only hope, Steve. Unfortunately the Phelpses will drag out the appeals process for who knows how long, and Mr Snyder will never collect a dime from them. Hey, they have their own law firm, for pete's sake; I'll bet they find all sorts of ways to gum up the system while they plot their further adventures.

I don't think it was Mr. Snyders intent to "collect" or gain money from his lawsuit - it has beens stated that proceeds will got to the veterans organization. I would love to know how the Phelps family is getting its funding. When the church is made mostly of family members - who is donating to continue the lawsuits. I thought I read somewhere awhile back that the elder Mr. Phelps was a self-made millionaire - anybody know for sure? I agree with an earlier post that said to find where the Phelps' do business and picket. That anyone could provide services to this congregation is beyond me - I wouldn't even sell them toilet paper.

Here is the "bio" on Phelps from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

This link indicates that most of his money comes from 10 of his thirteen children (eleven of them are lawyers, so that means they are financially raping their clients to pay for their rantings.) Too bad, we can't find reasons to get them disbarred like he was.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/112-fred-phelps

More and more, we are seeing fring elements of the Christian church cause people to literally turn away from the Christian faith thinking wrongly that this is the way the church operates. When we see the things that the people who are calling themselves Christians are doing, it gives Christianity a bad name. These people are filled with hate. I feel so sad for the people who have lost family members to the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. These young men served because they had to do so. Even if they disagreed with the war, they had no choice but to do their duty. They did that and now the family has to deal with death and ignorance from these homophobes.

I have to finish reading the article so I can find out how I can help this man financially. $16,000 is nothing to sneeze at. I'm sure many readers will help him foot the bill. I hope there is an avalanche of lawsuits to keep them so busy they won't have time to parade around with their signs.

I'd lay some serious coin on an eventual fate resembling that of the People's Temple or Heaven's Gate crowd

we can only hope that they end up that way, and the sooner, the better.

Then after albert we can all piss on his grave, then we'll youtube it

So, if they don't represent your ideas and beliefs, they have no right to speak.

I don't mind homosexuals, but find gay-pride parades to be nothing short of an outrage against public decency. Why are they allowed to continue?

I believe every woman who has an unnecessary abortion -- meaning her life is not endangered by the pregnancy -- to be a murderer who should in turn be put to death -- using the same inhumane instruments and process that was used to torture and kill her baby. So how come people are able to protest in support of abortion?

I feel sad for this father's pain. But he and all of you supporting violence against this group, are in fact dishonoring his son. If his son was fighting for America, he was fighting for freedom of speech and the right to protest. This man is actually fighting against what his son died to protect.

Ironic, huh?

i agree, nothing wrong with a gay person but the parades, how dare they come out of the closet for us to see them, that IS an outrage against public decency, you are as backwards as they come.

Diane -

You really are a conflicted person. Speaking of free speech and our rights, but wishing to deny others their rights to do with their bodies what they wish. And you have to be kidding about the parades, right?

Gay people are a normal occurrance in the population - yes, every mammal species has a certain percentage that displays homosexual behavior - people too. Call it normal or not - it is there, and yes - God created them too. So in this free country with all its rights and freedoms, gay people are legally allowed to be themselves like anyone else. Look away if you can't take it.

Personally - I am straight, but love seeing a gay parade...like any other parade. People enjoying a celebration and not judging or screaming hateful things.

This grieving father is offended by the disrespect these people have for his son and his family - especially as they don't even know him. Like I said - do demonstrate, but in front of Congress - not these poor families.

Yeah, I think women should be burned at the stake. Remember when they had parades claiming such sinful things like 'women should vote' or 'women should drive'? God clearly ordained them to be barefoot, pregnant and at home cleaning up men's sh!t.

Same thing for women's lib, blacks, native indians, gays, draft protesters, etc. They should all have been jailed for offending the 'sensible' logic of the people of those times by those visible parades. Can't they just keep their sinful ideas behind closed doors like good christians do?

Ok, for the dimwitted (i.e. religious) among you, that was sarcasm.

Point is lots of protests that people used to consider sinful ultimately proved to be moral, logical, and just plain common sense years later. And our laws, and behaviors slowly changed to follow suit. The act of bringing it out into the open for discussion and debate is the only way that mankind can evolve. Ultimately when anyone claims that they are 'offended' by somebody elses actions and want to force their morality upon that person, they're almost always in the wrong from a moral, ethical, christian and humanitarian standpoints. Funny thing is those people have always existed and will always exist throughout time. Some people never learn from history and therefore always repeat the worst of it. Typically that's because their parents brainwashed them first. That's certainly the case here, it's all in the family (or was that in-breeding the family?)

Diane you really are a moron huh. No one said they didn't have the right to free speech. It's where they do it that this father is upset about. Have you ever heard of the phrase "to be considerate ". How would you feel if you are burying a family member and you have all these protesters at their funeral? Oh let me guess, you would not care because they are just expressing their freedom of speech huh. I feel pity for people like you who have no common since or decency for others feelings. You and people from this "church" are nothing more then bullies.

I hope that when Phelp's dies, HUNDREDS of people show up and protest. Tell him he is going to hell, because he is, and he will NOT be seeing Matthew Shephard, the Snyder kid or any of the miners there.

Give that family a heaping taste of their own medicine.

mustangcat:

Diane you really are a moron huh. No one said they didn't have the right to free speech. It's where they do it that this father is upset about.

ROFL

That was good. You can have your free speech, just not where anyone might get upset with your message. And while you must be a genius, apparently you can't read. I said in my post that I felt sorry for the guy, but protests are legal in this country, and his son died to protect those rights. In theory. In reality, he died to enrich Bush, Cheney, and their cronies.

As for the queers, their freedom to have sex with each other is not a problem for me. It's the pornographic nature of their parades that I object to. I believe in a reasonable level of public decency regarding exposure of genitals. I'm sure you people find that totally unacceptable and probably take your 4 year old children to watch.

As for people doing as they wish with their bodies, I'm all for it so long as they aren't copulating in the streets. My objection to abortion is that it involves murder -- not suicide. If the stupid women want to kill themselves, I'm okay with that. It's when they kill other people's bodies that I object.

And when you're being free in your speech, it's okay to call gay people "queers"?

Diane, take this and ruminate over it. (she won't get it) It is a little gift from moi.
Ignorance can be fixed, stupid is forever..........

while i think Phelps is a hateful bigot and i cannot stand what he has to say....but if we allow pornography and many other types of negative speech in this nation that is less then useful then we have to allow them to speak,.....bare in mind...that the protesters are already bound by law to get a permit...and stay at least 1000 ft. away from the funerals....the father didn't even know they were there until he saw them on the news at the wake...not sure that constitutes a violation of any ordinance...just ignore them...its sad that Phelps and his cohorts have ignored Gods most important comandmeent..."to love" but that does not mean we should ignore it to.

Diane-1530584 This man is actually fighting against what his son died to protect.

Diane, I, personally, disagree with your assumption. I believe he is doing exactly what he son died to protect: The rights of all citizens to address grievences through law, instead of personal vendettas. For generations we have fought in the courts and in war to protect the right of addressing grievences. In Mr. Snyder's ('this man') case, he is using Civil law to find some relief for other families who will be going through the same nightmare he did. He could have tried other, less permanent or more negative means, but he chose the very system his son and others have served to protect. I salute him.

Alright. Fine. Enough already. I'm tired of reading Diane's proselytizing about how progressive she feels she is because she knows gays(although she hates what they do). There is a certain kind of irony to someone who doesn't believe in killing but thinks that a person who has an abortion deserves to be murdered. I have met many people who feel the same things, most conversations begin with: "I'm not prejudiced, but..." Most of them have never had to deal with choices--like do I tell or not, can I afford to go to college without the GI Bill or even the doctor has said if I carry my child there is a good possibility that I could die. Like many, I understand that these protesters, no matter how heinous their message may be, rights must be left up to the courts to interpret and agree that the best way to fight is in the way of King and Gandhi. However, this person is not speaking out as a way to best define free speech; her actions speak of little more than narcissism.

I know this will be hard for you to follow Kelly, but I see a big difference in killing a murderer and killing an innocent baby. Also (sigh) I pointed out that I was only talking about women whose life was not endangered by the pregnancy. As for their college education, I'm sorry dear, but I just don't see that as sufficient reason to murder someone. I'm sure you'll consider that very narrow-minded of me, but that's just the way it is.

And as I've said repeatedly, I don't care what gays do. I just don't like them doing it in the street.

I don't do it in the street. Do you?

Diane:

Interested?

Kelly,

You owe me a new keyboard.

I made the mistake of drinking water while reading your post.

I laughed so hard, it still hurts.

Best. Response. EVER.

Just kidding about the keyboard :)

Oh, right, that's a good answer to ignorance...more ignorance, only this time with violence. Are you people serious? sheesh

For those that are saying that they hope a bunch of people go to Phelps' funeral when he dies to protest, dance, banish him to hell, ect. I actually hope only his 70-80 family/flock go. To reinforce how very alone they are.

(besides, two wrongs don't make a right.)

There's an organization called the Patriot Guard that formed in reaction to these "protests." Motorcycle riders from all over organize to accompany funeral processions to graveyards, block the families' view of these XXXXX (I can't think of a word I can actually type that won't be censored here) and do what they can to ensure the Phelps brood can't disrupt the service.

"There's an organization called the Patriot Guard that formed in reaction to these "protests."

Yes, thank God for the Patriot Guard Riders and other protesters doing their best to neutralize Phelps and his followers.

Yes, the Patriot Guard was here in Tulsa for a soldiers funeral - God Bless them all.

THANK YOU.......took43583......... for the Patriot Guard Riders link....I am joining!!!!!!!!!!!

So awesome they exist!!!! They have my support as well Albert Snyder's!!!!!

IMO, the members of the Patriot Guard Riders deserve a special place in heaven for giving of their own time and money to protect grieving families from people like Phelps. And I guarantee, the Patriot Guard Riders are 100% more likely to go to heaven than Phelps and his family are.

Sticky, from Mafia warts?

I am so thankful that someone brought up the Patriot Guard Riders. I am one of those riders and we are 189,000 plus strong across the country. We do our damnest to shield the family by forming a circle of comfort around them -- shielding them from such unnecessary hatred. I am not a veteran, but a very, very proud American who stands beside her husband holding a flag that NO ONE WILL EVER TAKE AWAY FROM ME. The PGR riders are a very strong and proud organization. Proud that we can help in our small way to ease the pain of the family, to ensure their loved one gets the respect he/she deserves. These young people DIE for us -- die to protect all of us -- even those of the Westboro Church. Sad isn't it? I truy believe in "what goes around comes around" and these people will get their just deserve. And...while there is only a small handful of them -- we are getting bigger and stronger each day. I truly believe in my own heart that families have nothing to worry about when they invite the Patriot Guard Riders to protect them. God bless this country and her people.

bkrauski- thank you thank you thank you! You are doing a great thing. I'm going to look up your group so I can figure out how to help. I was in the Marines and my husband is in the Army. You are doing just as much for your country as those that serve.

freedom of speech Cal not even close but maybe the right thing to do :-)

"Oops, I just happened to accidentally throw a lit cigarette in that pile of dry tinder that just happens to be piled up against the front door of the church!" Really, no malicious intent at all.

lol. so off topic

Yeah - but he's sick, just the same

Can you find or open a forum more to your liking in say, Germany?

hahahahahaha!!!!!! good one!!!!

I was hoping the pastor of this church would read it - that's all - kinda givin him a goat to play with

No, it's proof that one evil, ruthless man can raise a family in his psychotic image. Fred Phelps's offspring need not have turned out as damaged as they are; he and he alone made them that way.

Is it mental illness or in-breeding? Drive through any southern rural area and you will find a sign pointing to a church (I think they have a contest to see who can come up with the longest name). No houses for miles around but plenty of churches. As in this case which consists primarily of his children and grandchildren, it is a racket to avoid income taxes. Maybe Obama can have his lackeys investigate these churches to lower the deficit even more.

Great idea Billy. They should NOT be tax exempt.

No church should be, at all.

Hands down to that Brady

And, Brady, there is not a jury in America that would convict you. May be a thank you.

Hopefully your responses will help Mr. Snyder in his "free speech" fight. It is obvous to me that the hate speech that Westboro spews will eventually result in violence. How could it not? Greiveing family - ignorant assh*les spewing garbage - eventually someone is going to lose it.

You are definitely right soggy9000, it is not a church nor is it Christian.

Actually, it sounds strangely like the modern conservative movement.

Mike: Actually, it sounds MORE like the Racist, Rabid, Rev. Wright's church who spews out the Anti-American hatreds-remember GodDamn America quote? Make's one wonder if these cultists shouldn't be looked at a bit closer, doesn't it? .....oh yeah, they were-actually when Obama and his wife were there for over 20 years, but Never heard that kind of hatred being spewed out right???? Same as Phelps....hatred, vile and corrupt morally-they should NOT be tax exempt....they are cults/political pigs that want to inflict their positions on everyone else.

btw, Diane-

While you want to blame Our military on MORE recruitment for Bin Laden, and that All Muslims are Terrorists(not all-but I have YET to see all that peaceful Muslim protesting against Terrorism, and their outrage you spoke of), but .....WHO was it that crashed planes into the WTC buildings....I believe they were Muslims, 19, right?

Before that, the military was NOT being used to recruit Terrorism, when Bill Clinton treated the FIRST WTC bombing as a Police Matter, rather than what it was...Terrorism. You need to get your distorted facts straight, and quit going on stupidly about how our Military is recruiting Terrorists.....I suggest You, and others of this selective memory, go to a site, and learn HOW/WHY Muslim/Islamic Radicals Want to kill ALL who don't believe in their distorted radicalism and so called faith. Get informed...

The site: JihadWatch.org THIS, will tell you it is THEIR distortion, and NOT our military who

promotes killing the "Infidels"(who don't follow their cult)

Diane, since you seem to tout your own intelligence and reading skills, don't forget to go to this site, and then come back and tell us how Our Military is to blame for recruitment.

Most churches cannot be 'reasoned' with simply because they consciously decide to disavow reason and logic because it 'goes against Gods word' and rely solely on their widely varying concepts of faith and belief. Think of the Catholic church. If that church could have been 'reasoned' with would we have ever needed to create Protestant churches?

As far as muslims are concerned. Change one word of the Quran or insult one prophet and you're dead by Fatwa command. Reason? It's listed as the primary sin of the infidel and to be avoided by the faithful on command of death.

That might be a good idea - if they are truly a "church" they would have to allow admittance? If a couple hundred started showing up every Sunday?

Well said, Deacon

Yeah, but this group sure takes the fifth (or fourth depending) commandment out for a spin though. Honor thy father? Maybe should be 'honor thy father and mother, except when they're complete nutcases and want to ruin your life with all manner of evil and hatred).

Deacon I think you have the right idea. The only problem is that churches that have spun off and form cult like congregations would somehow twist it in their sick minds and say they are "being persecuted for the Kingdom's sake." I am a Christian and I find these people sick and twisted. The very fact that the congregation seems to be all related points to a sick mind leading a bunch of sick minded people. That is not Christianity, that is a cult. Dont judge us all by the weirdos that justify this garbage. If I had a gay son who died for his country and these people showed up I might find it very difficult to keep my mouth shut and my hands to my side.