Right, Donna. Perfect justification for digging up someone's dead body and dumping it on their parent's front step. Never mind some of the barbaric practices of the heterosexuals such as the "virgin myth" where a male with HIV/AIDS will rape a virgin because he believes it will cure his affliction. I believe there's a documented case of a girl as young as 1 week old was raped because of that myth. These people need to come out of the dark ages quick and stop being so suseptible to these idiotic superstitions.

are we animals now? (sorry for offending any animals) ...

When we stop valuing our countrymen and devalue the lives they lead, we will find ourselves in a revolt and revolution of ideology that will leave all of us with the loss of loved ones, freedoms, and the country we know.

It shouldn't matter what you personal beliefs or feelings are, the fact is, we are still a country that is suppose to be the ideal and the standard. We are suppose to be a nation that protects its own and shows what morality, compassion, and a kind heart is. The fact that we are where we are now is terrifying.

donna98387 - really, that's right all those Heterosexuals dying of AIDS undoubtedly has sex with a Homosexual (sarcasm)! Honestly, justifying this kind of violence because of a virus anyone can get - is well... just double wide ignorant!

Ah Islam, the religion of peace. /sarc

It is time to stop throwing around the term homophobia. I refuse to let others define what I am thinking.

I believe homosexuality, like all other sexuality is a choice. I am 54, could have had sex with men, women, children, animals but I choose not to based on what God shows me. I believe there are nice decent homosexuals, but they (like thieves, liars, gluttons, killers, alcoholics and a whole lot more) must stop making choices that go against nature and claim that they are right.

I absolutely deplore & hate violence against anyone - verbal or physical. People who do such things should be prosecuted and punished by the authorities.

Having said all of this - I am not afraid of homosexuals, I do not hate them, I am not mad at them, I feel sorry for anyone (including homosexuals) who sin against God and makes excuses for themselves, including me when I do it.

Pastorized

"It is time to stop throwing around the term homophobia. I refuse to let others define what I am thinking." *** You are being defined by what you say and do. If you want to stop the term "homophobia", you have to end homophobia, first.

"I believe homosexuality, like all other sexuality is a choice."*** Well, I've been at this type of discussion for a long time, and every homosexual that I've known and spoke to said that it wasn't a choice, but they were born that way. I have to chose them, over your "beliefs". For you to have said that it is a choice, you imply that you made a choice from a homosexual experiance, or a period of trial of being homosexual, to becoming a heterosexual.

"I am 54, could have had sex with men, women, children, animals but I choose not to based on what God shows me."*** So...God showed you sex with men, woman, children and animals?

"I believe there are nice decent homosexuals, but they (like thieves, liars, gluttons, killers, alcoholics and a whole lot more) must stop making choices that go against nature and claim that they are right." *** Oh, so you are comparing all homosexuals to thieves, liars, gluttons, killers, alchoholics and a whole lot more? Are you throwing in pedophile priests and a lying pope, with that? Is that what your God told you, that homosexuals, your brothers and sisters, where compared to all those others? How disgusting. My God never told me any of that, are you sure you aren't just being the slightest bit homophobic, yourself?

"I absolutely deplore & hate violence against anyone - verbal or physical. People who do such things should be prosecuted and punished by the authorities." *** That's here on earth, but doesn't your god have even more wicked plans ahead, like lakes of fire and eternal suffering? (for gays too).

"Having said all of this - I am not afraid of homosexuals, I do not hate them, I am not mad at them, I feel sorry for anyone (including homosexuals) who sin against God and makes excuses for themselves, including me when I do it." ....*** And brother, you just did it.

Senegal has a Muslim majority and a fundamentalist Christian minority, along with a dusting of other creeds. So much for so-called "peace-loving Muslims" and "tolerant Christians." The former are an illusory, irrelevant contradiction, at best, and the latter are a cadre of Pharisees.

Lest this be taken wrong, let it be understood I'm no atheist or enemy of religion; nor am I necessarily an apologist for gay or lesbian lifestyles, albeit such lifestyles don't bother me so long as they stay out of my face. But in the name of decency, can't people even let the dead alone? It's impossible to fathom baser creatures than humans.

Must be nice to judge up on your perch so high. I suppose we should all hold ourselves up to your high standards of bigotry....

This type of behavior is exactly why I don't understand or participate in religion. Commiting many sins; judgement, hatered, etc. in reaction against another's supposed sin makes no sense to me. My God is the only one with the responsabilty of judgement. I try never to carry his heavy burden of judgeing. My god teaches me to love all my fellow man, not just the one's I would deem fit. Love, just love.

God is a gay basher, and if you don't go along, He will get you!

all this was instigated by Christian jerk from usa preaching against homosexuals over there. Now that he has lit the fire he denies it all. Aren't Christians a loving group?

What I see in these comments are we are looking at this in a WESTERN point of view. These people believe in witch doctors, spirits and all sorts of religious views. You can't ignore the fact that safe sex is not practiced. Bisexual males help spread AIDS. Allot of aid sent to Africa is being sold on the black market. This situation is not anything like the gay movement here. Its a corrupt 3rd world continent. The violence reaches much more than the homosexual community. Until Africa has stabilized governments and the violence and corruption are at an end there will be more deaths gay and straight.

these people apparently were all MUSLIMS....they tried to get the son buried at the MOSQUE but were rejected. so it is likely that they are ALL muslims.

The People are stupid.

What about heterosexuals who get AIDS?

What about children who are raped?

What a bunch of dumbasses!

Nothing funny about this story it is disgusting ''religion of peace''

Senegal has a Muslim majority and a fundamentalist Christian minority, along with a dusting of other creeds. So much for so-called "peace-loving Muslims" and "tolerant Christians." The former are an illusory, irrelevant contradiction, at best, and the latter are a cadre of Pharisees.

Lest this be taken wrong, let it be understood I'm no atheist or enemy of religion; nor am I necessarily an apologist for gay or lesbian lifestyles, albeit such lifestyles don't bother me so long as they stay out of my face. But in the name of decency, can't people even let the dead alone? It's impossible to fathom baser creatures than humans.

Sad to see that there is still so much fear and brainwashing still going on in this world.

Well, I knew with an article like this it wouldn't take long for Muslim and Christian bashing to commence. Al Hoot, you might be encouraged to know that a part of the Lutheran church last year voted to allow practicing homosexuals to serve as pastors. I personally believe homosexuality is an abomination before God (He said it, I didn't) , but I also know that I do not judge anyone, because there is only one Judge, and I am not Him. What is left for me then is to "do justice, and love mercy". I cannot condemn the gay person, but can only testify that their actions are condemned already, and Jesus came to free us from our slavery to sin. There is no judgement in that statement, only what I hope would be good news. Yet I know the gay community will accept nothing from any group short of complete acceptance and acknowledgement of normalcy. People like the Rev. Phelps, who protests at the funerals of our fallen soldiers, represent a fanatical minority of Christianity. Most Christians are appalled by their behavior, no matter what their views of homosexuality are.

My position is, and always will be...first please God, then do what you want. And there is new life in Him. Such verbage leaves no room for condemnation of homosexuality, for if Christianity condemns the homosexual, then we must condemn ourselves also, for "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Radical Islam no matter where is a threat to civil society world wide and must be crushed. If not all you humanists along with us Christians need to be prepared to move back to 7th century life!

Donna...... AIDS is a virus. It does not know the gender, skin color, religion, age or sexual activity of the people it infects. stop listening to the ghost of Ronald Reagan.

Islam + stupidity = muder

Christianity + ignorance = hatred

Hatred is an ugly thing

I wonder how these good Christians will respond when their chapter in the book of life is read.

How quickly we forget. Doesn't anyone remember when the color of a persons skin determined where they could be buried in this Country? It wasn't that long ago. Or how about if you could be charged with rape or murder by hanging. If the victim was black and the perpetrator white then no charges. If the other way around then the death sentence wasn't good enough. You want to understand this, then just look at your own back grounds. Stop being so sanctimonious.

Funny how people say they dont 'condone' homosexuality. Who are you to condone or not condone anything?? God says this and god says that. I call B.S. If you were listening to any other imaginary voice then the one coming from 'god' you would be deemed a lunatic. (I however won't show restraint)
The 'good' books from which you derive your beliefs were written by men, men who were bigots, and were interested in controlling the masses (which they've done quite well). Religion is a perfect way to give weak minded people strength in numbers.

It's not a great continent for heterosexuals either. Is it not pc to say that? Well, I don't care.

Pleasing God is not the problem. Pleasing our interpretation of what we think God wants is. No matter what religion one practices we tend to interpret what we think and not what is.

In the article:"In March 2008, Senegal hosted an international summit of Muslim nations, which prompted a nationwide crackdown on behaviors deemed un-Islamic, including homosexuality."

How is it that the Christian Bashers are spouting their rants on here. The only "Christian" mention in this story is of the Catholic Hospital that has an HIV ward, and tried to help the man.

No quotes from the Rev-v-verand Jesse Jackson or Al SlimShady Sharpton in this article ?? Because it is a black on black, peaceful Muslim on peaceful Muslim "incident".

Even the POTUS, a self-proclaimed black man (2010 Census), has yet to make a proclamation from the Rose Garden condeming the brutality taking place on his Home-boy Continent, by the religion of both his father and step-father .......

This is disgusting !

I don't care what your beliefs are. Digging up a body no matter what caused the death is immoral and what is point?? Does this make them no longer gay in death.. I think not !

It also seems to me that they are helping to spread the virus by raping women who may or may not be, because I am sure they aren't running around with condoms on, think about that.

Complete lunacy !!

I call for a boycott on all aid donations to africa until their is a consensus among the general population to end these barbaric acts. Also among the government and military. Until these disgusting violations of human rights ends. let them feed themselves if this is how they act. i say

NO AID FOR AFRICA

NO AID FOR AFRICA

NO AID FOR AFRICA

No matter what religion or belief people are, Islam clearly states in the Koran to NEVER desecrate graves or dead bodies.

So anybody on here who quickly started insulting Islam hold your horses. This is CLEARLY a case of MISINFORMED/IGNORANT people who are scared of what they do not know. Just like people on here insulting Islam, ignorant/misinformed by the media. And this article is perfect proof. Stop sounding like ignorant IDIOTS. You are acting just like thoses guys.

I don't think this whole thing has anything to do with religion. Remember 20 years ago they would send condoms to Africa and to explain how they worked they pulled them over a broom stick. The baby problem was still not fixed. Now they see the problems HIV had caused and how many people are sick with AIDS. They believe that the gay population brought on the sickness, so they let their hate and hurt for every friend and family member who died of AIDS out on the gay men.

This is simply the fear, the frustration and the helplessness they show to deal with a sickness they don't understand. Maybe in 20 years when they start to understand how HIV is spread they will allow again gay men to be buried in a cemetery. Never the less this is really sad and makes me sick.

ByOurExample owes the CHRISTIANS the world over a MAJOR apology for writing: "Hatred is an ugly thing

I wonder how these good Christians will respond when their chapter in the book of life is read."

#2.8 - Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:43 AM CDT

ByOwnExample, this is the MUSLIM reaction to the homosexual problem of AIDS etc....NOT the "good Christians".

Associated Press report says: In March 2008, Senegal hosted an international summit of Muslimnations, which prompted a nationwide crackdown on behaviors deemed un-Islamic, including homosexuality.

Muslum sermons
Imams began using Friday sermons to preach against homosexuality.

"During the time of the Prophet, anytime two men were found together, they were taken to the top of a mountain and thrown off," says Massamba Diop, the imam of a mosquein Pikine and the head of Jamra, an Islamic lobby linked to a political party in Senegal's parliament.

In November 2008, residents in Pikine removed a corpse from a mosque of another suspected homosexual and left it on the side of the road.

Diallo went into hiding....Unable to go to the doctor, By the spring of 2009, he was so ill that his family checked him into St. Jean de Dieu, a Catholic hospital in downtown Thies, says the friend. (DID YOU NOTICE? the CHRISTIAN CATHOLICS took him in for CARE!!!!)

Hours after he died, his family took Diallo's body to a nearby mosque, where custom holds the corpse should be bathed and wrapped in a white cloth. Before the family could bathe him, news reached the mosque that Diallo was gay and they were chased out, says the dead man's friend. His relatives hastily wrapped him in a sheet and headed to the cemetery, where they carried him past the home of Babacar Sene.

"A man that's known as being a homosexual can't be buried in a cemetery. His body needs to be thrown away like trash," says Sene.

quotes taken from Associated Press report ~NBC

"the media" needs to start putting MUSLIM in the headlines to make things CLEAR for people who BLAME Christians for things they DO NOT DO! CHRISTIAN BASHING is a travesty.

Yet it was the Christian Group "The Family" who massively spammed African nations with how evil gays were and how they spread the disease. Maybe Senegal is predominately Muslim but the lies were imported by the Family and their ilk.

Rahlly... True dat. So thankful for people like you who can see through all of that religious bigotry and hate. Are we to protect the sactity of "The Family"?

Ummm excuse my language but
Hell
@!$%#
No!

As far as I am concerned, any person (D, I, R, or none) who connects to, follows the belief of, or supports them in any way, shape, or form are scum. Any human who support the demonizing, destruction, and maliciousness of the Family has a portion of their soul missing. I may not be a Christian but that doesn't mean I do not have a soul. I may not be the same as them but it doesn't mean I am evil. I may not worship as they do but that doesn't mean it's right to kill me. As long as I don't hurt you what gives you the right to hurt me.

I despise them and will not willingly help them. One of my favorite books, this guy is dying... and he's hurting as he's dying, really bad pain but the guy is a bastard. Pure and deep bastard, he refuses to name an heir because he knows if he doesn't, there will be a minor civil war and it will destroy his land and he wants them to suffer. So the lawmakers come to him and ask him to make a decision, he laughs and says no, that they can't do anything to him.

The healer beside him says, "That's true, we can't. And I won't. I won't do anything... not a single thing. When you cry out in pain, I will do nothing."

When the guy realizes that they are serious, he names a successor. First I thought that was horrid for the Healer but later as I grew I realized the Healer was doing his job. Yes, not giving the guy the pain meds cause pain but a lot less pain that a war would have caused, the deaths, the destroyed land, the famine.

The lesson? When people like The Family show up, it is best to do nothing, to never help them. If one of them came to me and needed a ride out of a bad area. I wouldn't because if I help them, what they'll do is go on and create more bad areas. And it hurts to be so cold but I can't help them spread hate. I can't. They are in a bad area mainly because their policies helped to make a bad area.

They got in trouble because of their policies, especially the Ugandan kill the gays bill. Should I succor them, should I forgive them? No. And when they need help to get out of their mess, they shouldn't come to me and we, by that I mean the American government or they, the Christians, shouldn't help them because they got into their own mess and if we help them out of it, they'll just create more messes.

Time for some of the personal responsibility they so often tout.

Every single day, I see another story about how bad life is in Africa. Yesterday, it was the starving newborn; a couple of days before, children were being kidnapped, mutilated and sacrificed; last week it was machete attacks; the week before, it was a hundreds of people murdered. This is happening in many countries, not just one. It is happening across the whole religious spectrum, not just Islam (although they are one of the big players.) I watched and heard about starving Africans my whole life--and I'm 55.

When we were kids in Sunday school, we would save our dime collections so we could buy a tractor for a farmer. We would buy a goat to help a starving family. We threw good money after bad. We sent missionaries and Peace Corps workers, and still Africa has not improved one mote.

All the good energy we have spent on the Africans has been corrupted to the point of all I hear about is the desecration of the dead, mutilation of female genitals, breast ironing to protect young girls, HIV, rape, violent political turmoil, murder and mayhem. Unfortunately, now the gay population also gets to suffer.

What is it with people? Talk about irony. Are we any better in the USA? Your neighbor can be starving, your children can be homeless, you could be crippled with a life-threatening disease, unemployment is rife, and you are so poor that you don't even know where your next meal is coming from. And the best thing you can do is gay bash? Sounds just like home, doesn't it. Africa is eating itself alive, and we are not far behind unless we change our ways. We claim to be so much more enlightened. Let's put our money (what's left of it)where our mouth is. Stop bashing others because they are different. You may not agree with everyone, but everyone doesn't agree with you either. Live and let live. We can do better.

Zapper, I agree. Brings back history when the Nazis used the Jews, homosexuals, gypsies as scapegoats for their crap.

Bolanos,

I was thinking just that when I was reading the article. The article talked about the spiraling food prices in the region. This may have inflamed the situation. The Imams were looking for someone to blame. Homosexuals are an easy target and something most of the region can agree with disliking. A lot of homosexuals here are quite affluent with disposable income, I wonder if it is the same there? I think it might be more of a money issue than a religious one.

The same held true in Nazi Germany. They were suffering one of the worst economic declines in their history at the time and Hitler gave them someone to blame for their misfortunes.

History repeats itself.

BESMART?? If a college degreee [sometimes] does not change a fool, but only disguises them, then your view of history is certainly, really his/her-story. With the information now available on the internet, each and every individual who posts comments here are able to search and read history and not his/her-story. In other words, you can't shovel that s**t here anymore. It's like putting s-h on a plate and having i-t attached when returned for you to eat. The taste isn't that pleasant is it????????

SNAPPA, before you start blaming Muslims, Christians haven't helped matters any more in Africa. From the New York Times, Jan 4, 2010:

The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was “the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda” — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.

For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”

Now the three Americans are finding themselves on the defensive, saying they had no intention of helping stoke the kind of anger that could lead to what came next: a bill to impose a death sentence for homosexual behavior.

One month after the conference, a previously unknown Ugandan politician, who boasts of having evangelical friends in the American government, introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009, which threatens to hang homosexuals, and, as a result, has put Uganda on a collision course with Western nations.

These evangelicals weren't to keen on educating the masses on the truth since what they were spouting was material that had been debunked here in the States. Oh well, whats the harm in shopping your theories around until you find a gullible crowd to listen and believe in what you are spewing.

alfi-omega, I wondered how long it would be before someone trotted out that pack of lies. You seem to miss the part where the three men who spoke at the conference protested the twisting of their words. Their ministries are not for the condemnation of gays. If you think there are no practicing homosexuals who are in great conflict about their lifestyle, and would change if given the ability, then you live in a wonderworld of misinformation. But that's okay. I can tell by your handling of the information you cite that you're not too interested in truth.

Levi, does it occur to you that the main reason that any homosexual would be in "great conflict about their lifestyle" (not that it IS a lifestyle, but I'm quoting you) is that he or she has had it shoved down their throats all their lives that being gay is wrong? Not to mention the hatred, violence, and discrimination that have always been directed towards gay men and women. Let's get one thing straight - you are BORN either gay or straight. You CANNOT make a gay person straight. You may cause him or her to no longer engage in homosexual activities - but the attraction to the opposite sex will still be there.

As for the three men "protesting the twisting of their words" - that's the oldest excuse in the book. People are always saying things that they mean - and then backing away when they get slammed for it. I'm not saying these ministers want gays dead - but they should have given a lot more thought to the long-term implications of their words. At minimum, they should have had a little better idea of what the already-existing attitude towards gays is in much of Africa, and not given fuel to the fire.

Vicki, I'm sorry, and I will say this as kindly and gently as I can. I understand that when a person says "God told me" that no one can really say "No He didn't" unless it's something really blatant, like "God told me to stay home and clean my guns." With this issue of gays feeling conflict about their attraction to same sex, I have heard it from many gays that they understand what God has to say about homosexuality, and while they love God, they have this conflict, and it leaves them in great turmoil. They do not say that what they have come to know concerning God's position on homosexuality comes from the teachings of men, but it is a natural witness inside all of us. Therein lies the conflict. And some have even attempted suicide, and some have been succesful. The ministry these men do does not kidnap gays and attempt to reprogram them. For those who are in such conflict, there is a ministry that addresses their desire to be right with God, and to be pleasing to God. It is for such as these that this ministry exists. If a gay person rejects God, or is not in conflict with their homosexuality, this ministry does not try to create conflict. God may well create conflict within a person, but then...we aren't God.

Now, as for the alleged backpeddling being the "oldest excuse in the book" (I thought it was "The woman You gave me gave it to me and I ate it." ), I have no trouble believing that these men went into this situation naively, not knowing that their teachings and words would be taken far beyond the intent. Well, I do concede that they must own their words, and must now vigorously oppose the murder and desecration of gays in these countries. They may be doing that now. I don't know. We are instructed in the Bible to "walk circumspectly for the days are evil." Walking circumspectly is like slowly circling something and inspecting it closely, intently. We have to be careful. I know that many American pastors and evangelists have been invited to other countries to preach, and teach. Heck, my own pastor has been to Fiji. Sweated like crazy and lost a lot of weight, but had the time of his life. This may have been one of those.

And please know, Vicki, anyone who goes by the name of Christian that advocates the killing of gays does not know Christ, but falsely uses that name.

I can tell by your handling of the information you cite that you're not too interested in truth.

Levi, I am probably more interested in the truth than you are. I see what people do and advocate under the guise of "The Good Book" and their particular brand of religion to suppress other people who don't believe or act the way the book says they should.

I guess you missed the part where the article stated:

The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was “the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda” — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.

That was a quote by the event organizer, not some homosexual rabble rouser trying to discredit the event that your three upstanding and model religious citizens spoke at. Also, if you would have looked at the article, you would have also seen a link to the audio files from this event where these three people spoke. Listen to them yourself and then tell me that they aren't using discredited information to push an agenda that says that homosexuals are an abomination and they are trying to take over society. They call themselves Christians but they are doing nothing but spreading lies and falsehoods under the guise of it being confirmed by science and religion (maybe religion but not science).

Also, I'd like to point out the following article from the UK Guardian. It covers pretty much the same story but also adds about the back peddling from Rick Warren here in the States:

This weekend, Rick Warren, the most powerful evangelical in America, released a video statement. "As an American pastor, it is not my role to interfere with the politics of other nations, but it is my role to speak out on moral issues," he said, adding that the bill was "unjust, extreme and un-Christian toward homosexuals".

and the reaction by the sponsor of the Ugandan anti-homosexual bill to not having his support:

Bahati said yesterday that he regretted Warren's retreat. "It's unfortunate that a man of God who has inspired many people across the world can give in to pressure and disappoint them."

I might also point out that according to the paper, the religious make up of the country is:

Around 85% of Ugandans are Christian – 40% Catholics, 35% Anglican. Muslims make up 12% of the population.

Not a very "Christ" like bill from a supposed Christian leaning nation. But nice try in trying to discredit what I have posted. Listen to what these guys say and then come back with something more credible than "Oh that bit of nonsense."

alfie, the actions and following comments by these three men, including Rick Warren, give me great pause. With fame and notoriety comes great responsibility. I have been the voice of non-judgemental Christianity on many different topics, and one thing I do know, is that people will hear what the want to hear, and read what they want to read. Jesus quite often said, "He who has an ear to hear...." I guess He dealt with it too. I know that no matter how sane and reasonable a dialogue, there will always be those that read agenda into everything. I suppose even I have agenda, but my agenda is 1) Truth and 2) rightly handling that truth.

I maintain that there is one Judge over mankind, and I am not He. Neither is Rick Warren. We can only go by what the rule of our faith tells us, and that rule of our faith tells us that homosexuality is indeed an abomination. Under the Judaic law, gays were to be killed. Period. But what many do not understand, and what the governments that are murdering and imprisoning gays under the cloak of Christianity do not understand, is that when Jesus died on the cross, and rose from the dead, He ushered in the "Church age", or the "Age of Grace". The old Judaic Law has been fulfilled, and a new and better covenant between God and man has been enacted, a covenant based on the blood of Jesus Christ. No longer are the civil authorities commanded in written word to round up and execute anyone. This does not mean that civil authorities are biblically instructed to make no laws at all. We are indeed commanded to "subdue the earth, and rule over it". That includes our fellow man. But what so many fail to understand, is that it's a servant leadership. It's not a kingdom. I like what Mel Gibson says in "Braveheart". He says, "You think the people exist to provide you with possession. I say your possession exists to provide the people with freedom."

I understand that the German military, including the SS, celebrated Christmas, even as they were murdering Jews, gays, blacks, the disabled, the retarded, gypsies, and so on. Please know, alfie, that not all who go by the name of Christian truly represent Jesus.

These men that went over there and presented their information...if they did so knowing that it would be used to justify the wholesale slaughter of gays, then shame on them over and over again. Yes, homosexuality is an abomination....so sez both the Judaic law and the New Testament book of Romans, written by Paul the apostle. So is laziness and not caring for one's own family. So is stealing. So is murder. so is apostasy. So is anything that flies in the face of a holy and righteous God.

LEVI777, someone just gave me this book on the LUTHERAN church and the homosexual apostate problems. check it out: http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=36242395

the homosexual problem is ripping the LUTHERAN church apart. very sad.

SNAPA: Why blame nature, or even GOD for what is the result of choice. Animals are instintual, no humans; well most of them anyway. There are a lot of Moral Bank Tellers out there. Whatis a bank teller noted for? Passing the buck.

the homosexual problem is ripping the LUTHERAN church apart. very sad.

fire letterman, I wouldn't go quite so far to say that the Lutheran church is being ripped apart. Are you aware that the Lutheran church is more than just the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America)? I was baptized and confirmed as a Missouri Synod Lutheran. I have also met people who belonged to the Mississippi and Delaware Synods. If you google Lutheran, synods, and list, you will see there are over 60 other synods both here in the states and overseas.

what you say is true, alfie, there are many different synods. I have a friend here who is Lutheran. I asked him about this issue of ordaining practicing gays, and he said his synod is absolutely opposed to it, and that the "ECLA has always been pretty radical." This is pretty sad though, as it's yet another schism (as the blurb for the book sez) along three lines. God is into oneness, but that oneness has to be pure, or it's not oneness, it's unity. And it is not an easy or simple step going from unity to oneness, and indeed may not be possible here on earth. And if unity is the best we can hope and work for, the Lutheran church does indeed seem to be going the other way. But then forward progressive, positive change in the Kingdom of God has always come about through conflict. Perhaps God has begun the process of seperating the "weeds from the wheat".

To follow that parable spoken by Jesus, I must imagine that there has been confusion all along as to whether or not we are weeds or wheat. These last few decades there has been a renewed calling to holiness, and passionate living for God. The reaction from the evil one is to create schisms in the institutions designed to encourage and teach us so that we may walk in holiness and passionate love for God. However if this evil one can get God's people to hold up different agendas, and doubt Him, or even deny Him, it would benefit his agenda very much. However God is able to keep those who are His, and even in the midst of relationships destroyed, apostasy revealed, wickedness embraced, and righteousness being chosen, who are weeds and who are the wheat is clear to God. And on that day when Jesus returns, "two will be grinding at the mill, and one will be taken, and the other left."

However there is true value in knowing ourselves, if we are weeds or wheat. What is happening in the Lutheran denomination smells like that. Showing ourselves, and showing God who are the weeds and who is the wheat. "That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed..."

It's tiresome hearing what God supposedly thinks about gays when it's the word of man people are reading. Gay was no more a choice for us then the color of our hair, being born male or any other trait. So if something is not a choice, why would a God condemn people for it? Sound like the cards are stack against people right from the start in some people's world.

It's sad how so many fables have been converted into fact in some people's minds. It's even sadder that they have been used to justify hatred and even murder of fellow human beings. This planet would be SO much better off if people would just leave other people alone and stop persecuting one another.

Hey Greg and Jeff, how's it going? I know that you reject the Bible as the word of God. I am able to actually read the original Greek versions, and am familiar with the Hebrew. It used to really freak me out when people couldn't see what's there to be seen, but it doesn't any more because I know it's hidden from you. You couldn't believe that the Bible is the word of God if you wanted to. Is that fine with me, or do I not care? I care very much. But there's not much I can do about it, except to remind you perhaps of some truths you may already know. The Bible is actually 66 different books and letters, written over a span of about 4,000 years. One of the greatest evidences of the Bible's veracity is fulfilled prophecy. Things written thousands of years beforehand came to pass...rather exactly. Did you know that the restoration of the nation of Israel was prophesied some 3,000 years before it happened? People who have tried to disprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ have become devout Christians. What do you suppose they found? It does no good for me to trot out examples, however, and all it does is weary you.

I will, however, answer one of your questions. Would God condemn people for something that is not a choice? I've often thought about that one. What about the Moabite children? When they were slaughtered by Israel, what evil had they done? How about children in the Gaza strip? This issue of homosexuality being a choice or not a choice is a thorny one indeed. All I can offer is this; that all souls belong to God. Some people are irretrievably arrogant, and that is abhorrent to God. Is that a choice? In the book of Acts, in the Bible, Paul the apostle talks about people who "although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, but served and worshipped the creature, rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever." It goes on to say that because of this and other failures, He "gave them over to impure passions, men burning with desire for men, and bringing upon themselves the due penalty for their error." Does this mean that your parents were idolators, and because of this God made you gay? This does not explain at all how some children of Christians are gay.

We as a country have long been unrighteous. We have had the witness of God's great care over us, yet we have had other agendas, and have explained it away. We are proud of the fact that we have such great freedoms...and indeed we do...and with that freedom comes opportunity. One only has to go to Africa, or South America, and see the poverty there to truly understand what lack of opportunity really is. And with this freedom also comes responsibility. We have to rightly use our freedoms, or our freedoms become more like a ships sail untied in a storm, and we are turned every way but the true way we should go. But we have not used our freedoms rightly. We give voice to one person who would challenge what millions hold to be sacred, our Pledge of Allegiance, and the words "one nation UNDER GOD". The righteousness demonstrated in the Decalogue, or Ten Commandments has been banned from our institutions of justice...our courthouses. Our places of learning, where our children are supposed to be educated. We teach that man is the result of special selection, and that our origins are chemical in nature, and not at all divine or as the fruit of a Creator's labor. Is that not "worshipping and serving the creature instead of the Creator"? God owes us nothing. He does not owe us truth. He does not owe us light, and life. Jesus did live on this earth, a historical fact. For three years He healed the sick, the blind, the lame, and cast out demons. He also taught by His teachings the nature and character of God. He introduced God to us as a Father, and not some stern Deity, with statements like "Fear not, little children, for it is the Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom of God." When Jesus endured the lashing from the Roman soldiers following the mockery of a trial, which was highly illegal according to the laws of the time, and he stood while they put a crown of thorns on His head and beat it with sticks; when He carried that cross up that hill to Golgotha, drenched in His own blood, and when they spread His arms out and nailed them to a cross, He might as well have said, "See, God loves you this much". This is a two-fold message. Yes, God loves us so much that Jesus went to the cross. But that also teaches us God's opinion concerning wickedness.

We used to be a Christian nation, and the majority of us believed. Now we who do are becoming fewer and fewer. So why should God not make broken vessels for dishonor? We deserve it. And even though I am not caught up in the delusion and am not gay, know that it grieves me, for I am convinced that for such as this, God will judge this world.

The Bible is actually 66 different books and letters, written over a span of about 4,000 years.

Which only proves the point that it is the work of mankind even more. A higher power would have got in, got the job done and wouldn't have needed the help of man to do it. The words would be carved on the side of some mountain somewhere and they'd have a peculiar property of not being able to be changed or destroyed or tampered with in any way. But the only time you hear about such miracles like that..walking on water, talking snakes, etc. is from a time long ago. Why? Because people were unsophisticated then and much more prone to superstition. We should still be seeing these things now and again, a word of God wouldn't require man's involvement at all and certainly wouldn't have to be added and amended as time went on.

We give voice to one person who would challenge what millions hold to be sacred, our Pledge of Allegiance, and the words "one nation UNDER GOD".

The pledge was modified to say that in the 1950's. Before that, those words were not there.

We used to be a Christian nation

We were never that. We are not now, nor have we ever been a theocracy nor composed of people with just one faith. Further, it wasn't very "christian" to slaughter the original inhabitants of North America and take their land either. Your view of history is skewed.

Yo~ verily I say unto you~ Gregerin&Jefferin, yay, thy knoweth that i'm a religionist, in the Hindueth way, so it is with deep devotion that I speaketh to you's'eth two; yo, I was walketh in the back-yardeth, when Lo, came a Hark the Angels singeth; take thy Shovel and dig. Lest I be smitten and turnedeth into a pillar of what was locally abundant, I started digging. (sorry, no salt here, jest alder wood and nettles ( and you don't want to be doing the hanky-spanky in the bushes and get those on your tender parts, no sir!)

And Lo, henseforth riseth a box, a Holy Grail, containing a Golden Book, wrapped in a Golden Cloth, Yea the Angels doth sing forth, saying, ........"un-wrappeth the sucker, you fat pollock, unrappeth!"

As fast as my fat Polish fingers could go in glorious Haste, I fell upon my knees, as the Truth was Verily revealed unto me~ "Yo! ~ Dude, a Heavenly Voice proclaimed!! This, My son, is the other half of My Bible. Go forth and Frolic, My Gay Offspring!! Lo and Go, My Darling Children, and Show the Bigoted Homophobes the Joy that I have bestow Upon Thee, for all of the Days hense forth....let them see what shall happen to Loving and Kind people, Let this Example Shine upon the Earth. Go now, and let heterosexuals populate the earth with murderers, adulterers and conservatives who Lie and Cheat, among you.

True classic form RossJ...be careful you don't fall in the hole you dug. Greg and Jeff, your comments reveal a couple of conditions within your thought proccesses. First, you don't think that God does miracles today, and you don't believe that He honors His word, the Bible, by fulfilling and acting according to what is writtten therein. I know experientially that He does both of those, but I also know that unless you experience these for yourselves, you will not believe. Okay, since God is not a trick pony, or a tame lion, what can we humans do that will move His hand and have Him do a miracle? Something undeniable that it is Him...say, raise the dead? What would He have to do for you that would make you believe that He is who I say He is, and these 66 books and letters of the Bible are infact His word?

Jesus said, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, but no sign shall be given except for the sign of Jonah; for as he was three days in the belly of the whale, so shall the Son of Man (Jesus) be three days in the belly of the earth, and rise again."
SO the fact of the matter is, you have heard the truth over and over again, and you do not believe. Choice, not choice, I don't know. I strongly suspect you made some choice years ago and God is honoring it by leaving you alone. Or not...I just don't know. But in that these things are hidden from you, I will not give more evidence to support my convictions, even though such evidence abounds. What would be the point? You would only disrespect it. And I know that there is a terrible end awaiting you, if you do not turn and give your hearts to Jesus, and you won't know that I'm right until it's too late. This isn't something I conjured up on my own to sell books, or gain fame. If I wanted to be popular, I certainly wouldn't say half the stuff I say on here.

So, basically we won't be saying anything knew. I'll post the truth, and you will post whatever. Of course it's the opposite to you, but then one day we'll find out, Right?

First, you don't think that God does miracles today

By all means, show us someone walking on water without plexiglass underneath.

SO the fact of the matter is, you have heard the truth over and over again, and you do not believe.

The fact of the matter is that we have heard a bunch of fables told over and over again to the point where people think they are real. And the fact of the matter, is that people have then taken such fables and used them to control other people, attack other people, demonize other people, and to raise money that way. Can't fill the coffer plates up without some "enemy" to fight against, right?

I strongly suspect you made some choice years ago

To be gay? You'd be incredibly wrong. WAY off the mark in fact. We do however, choose to follow our instincts and be with the person we love, just like you do. But love shouldn't be a bad thing. It's pretty darn hard to find and precious once you find it. Just because you do not understand, or because you read the ancient words of other men (not God) who also did not understand, does not make love wrong.

And I know that there is a terrible end awaiting you

You "know" no such thing. Which is why it is called a religious BELIEF, not a religious fact. And here's that end game view from a homosexual's POV: Either we spend eternity in some horrible hellfire, or we spend eternity with all those judgmental people who condemned us and point their finger at us our whole life. Hmmmmmm.....sounds like a lose lose proposition. Your idea of heaven, WOULD be hell for us. Your idea of us on Earth (alone, no one to love cause gay=bad) would be hell as well. So it seems like you want us to be in hell on Earth, and then cast us into either Eternity Hell #1 or Eternity Hell #2. And that's what you are not understanding here.

Which makes sense. Of course you wouldn't understand that. You don't even understand or know the true history of the country you live in. Instead you prefer to live in a romanticized version that never really was.

Okay, so now that we have neatly classified each other, let's back off from that and try a little honesty. You know I can't show you someone walking on water. Do I want you to know what I know? You bet! Can you? Probably not. You weren't there when we six joined hands and prayed for my mother's back to be healed, and she was, instantaneously. Four dics that were medically documented to be gone, suddenly appeared, and were subsequently certified by the same doctor. How about when an angel stopped our car as my wife and I and our two toddler daughters were sliding on a rainslick highway straight towards a car that had pulled into our lane and was heading straight for us. If you've ever slidden out of control into another car, or embankment, or tree, you know that feeling when you know that you know that it's all over, and there's nothing you can do...that's the feeling we had as we braced ourselves to hit this car. It turned sideways to make a left turn onto a road, and we were going to hit it on the rear door going about 50 mph. Suddenly there was a soft bump, and we were stopped in the middle of the highway, and the car was fishtailing down the road to our right. How about the time we had a Thanksgiving dinner for the street people in downtown Seattle, and served over 400 people with one turkey, about 10 quarts each of macaroni salad, and green salad, and a case of cranberry sauce? These are just a few of the many experiences I have had that prove to me that God is real, and that He works in our lives today.

Jeff and Greg, I restate what I've often stated, that I do not judge you. I cannot. There is one Judge, and I am not Him. So, what is left for the Christian if we cannot judge others? We are commanded to love. And what does that love look like? 1 Corinthians 13 is a pretty good example. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, this is part of what Paul the Apostle wrote in 1 Corinthians 13:

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast. It is not proud, it is not rude, is not self-seeking; it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." Then further on, he says "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love."

Now, you have to admit...that's a pretty tall order to fill. And of course we never want to take anything out of context, but it's pretty clear that Paul the apostle does not say that this should apply only to other Christians. So, if we are not to judge anyone except ourselves, and we have this prescription to love, and indeed the command to love, then can I not because of love warn you of these things I know to be true? I know very well that I can win the argument but lose the person. I never want to do that. Let me be proven unwise, and without knowledge, except that God is love, and those who would be His children carry His love for others in their hearts. So, if I am to love others, how can I since you are there and I am here? God knows where you are, and I can pray for you

Now, did you know there's no sex in heaven? I dont' care what the Muslims say, there is no sex in heaven. Time has ceased, everyone lives forever, there's no need to procreate, and the pleasure of it will be so left in the dust by the wonder of heaven...and if indeed it is all about attitude of the heart..which is what I heard from someone who died for 1 hr 45 minutes then came back with no restrictions on what he saw or heard in the throne room of God...what do you think could happen to the person who is gay, that agrees with God about it, and lives in relationship with Him? Is it possible that it could be a moot point? I don't know, I'm only speculating. My human mind can't really grasp the dilemma of the gay person. Being gay and rejecting belief in God cannot go hand in hand. There are certain absolutes, and some things just cannot be reconciled with the absolutes. I don't hate you, Greg and Jeff...I hate evil, and I hate sin. I hate my sin. And if the only person I am allowed to judge is myself, then I sentence myself to working on being more and more like Jesus Christ. And the example He gave us...is love.

Four dics that were medically documented to be gone, suddenly appeared, and were subsequently certified by the same doctor

And yet no news reports? No write ups in the medical journals?

How about when an angel stopped our car

You saw an angel? Why didn't the angels prevent your car from almost having an accident in the first place?

How about the time we had a Thanksgiving dinner for the street people in downtown Seattle, and served over 400 people with one turkey

Hmmm...what did the turkey just keep getting bigger again? Kind of like those iHop pancake commercials where the pancake rebuilds itself? Seems like that should have been a newsworthy story as well. Don't recall hearing it.

And the example He gave us...is love.

And that's the whole point. Love is not sin. You try to take something beautiful between us and turn it into something ugly. It's not.

Hey, now wait a darned minute you two! Wait a darned minute!!!

Ok, so like I get home late and decide to have some Costco egg rolls. I make up some Chinese goop with soy sauce, garlic chilli sauce from China ( unleaded, I think) and some pot sticker sauce....30 minutes later, I take them buzzards out, ready to go...when I remembered I forgot to buy beer! @&# Goddamnit!!!

When...LO.....behold.....the beer fairy stuck two cold puppies in the back of the fridge, for me!!!

That, my two lovable cuddlies, is your freakin' miracle, on ice, no less!

Yah can't tell me that God doesn't work in mysterious ways.!!!

Of course, he coulda stopped me any time he wanted, from burning the goddamed egg rolls...but noooooooo ....but heck........I ate them...because I know that sumbunny was starvin' over in Biafra.

I know it used to be that if someone told you something and the conversation was an honest one, that the person's statements were accepted as true, even if not understood completely. I think, Jeff and Greg, what you are saying is that unless you see it and can document it, you won't believe it. That's a pretty narrow worldview. And the reason most of these things don't get written up in medical journals is because it is 'unexplained'. To give validity to God doing a miracle of creative healing would mean that the medical community would have to admit that God is, and that He heals. And such a doctor and journal that posted such stories of divine healing would receive the same response I received from you. "Unless I see it, I won't believe."

The disciple Thomas said that. "Unless I touch the nail scars in His hands, and put my finger in the hole in His side, I will not believe." A few days later, Jesus suddenly appeared among them, and said, "Here Thomas, see the nail prints in My hands, and put your finger in My side. Now that you see, do you believe? Blessed is he who does not see, yet believes."

Greg and Jeff, agenda keeps you from not believing. You don't want to believe that God is, and that He is all we have been saying He is, and much more. The reasons you don't want to believe are very evident...you don't want relationship with Him. And I add this actually to your credit, that if you did believe, you would follow Him, and not turn away.

So, to accomodate what you know in your hearts is a huge dilemma, you do away with the One who has made His opinion about your lifestyle known, even to the point of calling me a liar. Well, no matter. I have a strong inclination to believe that your response to what I've told you has been duly noted, and you will be required to explain it at some point. But not by me...oh no. By Him.

I think, Jeff and Greg, what you are saying is that unless you see it and can document it, you won't believe it.

That sums a lot of it up. That goes for ANY issue, not just a gay one, or a religion one. People lie for many different reasons. People have many different agendas. And sometimes people are just off their meds....or maybe ON them. Any way you slice it and dice it though, it's always better to see things for yourself and not take someone's word for anything. On any subject matter. Would you be so trusting to give someone on Newsvine your credit card number if they said they had some magical holy water blessed by Jesus himself and were selling some?

As for your stories, you don't even hear other Christians say the things you say. A turkey that feeds 400? Why don't more Christians here have such tales to tell? And you listed not only that but two other experiences. And you probably have even more then that. So why are you the chosen one? Hate to doubt you, but it seems a little self-serving on an internet message board where anyone could say anything at any time.

And how am I serving myself? It gives me no props to win the argument, however it sure is distressing for you to count my testimonies as lies. Not because I abhor being called a liar (which I do) but because you show that there is nothing that can reach you that is contrary to your world view. Do you have the perfect existence? Of course not. So won't you consider what others have discovered? You have said you wont' unless you can filter it through your own experience. If God had sent an angel to stop an impending accident in YOUR life, would you believe? Jesus made it very clear that the words I and other Christians speak and write are sufficient testimony to you and others, and that if you do not believe all that has been told to you, then neither would you believe though someone should even rise from the dead.

Interesting note: My mother, after her healing, broadcast the story of what God had done for her via internet around the world. Six months later, she reverted back to her former rejection of Him and in her own particular flavor, was rather eloquent in her rejections. However, she did not lose the healing.

As for other Christians not posting stories about the works of God that we call miracles, probably because very few of us who post on here recognize that hand of God at work, and are willing to talk about it. But I will talk about it, and tell you and everyone of the things that God has and is doing, and continue to hope that it will spark belief in you. I know of people who have been raised from the dead, and it continues to present day. I know of all manner of healings, and miracles. I know of a healthy and strong man who fell over dead when he sought to do harm to a young girl in an orphanage. I know of children rescued from terrible circumstances by a miracle...and how about this; in your sheltered life, what would you do with the fact that since Jesus rose from the dead, people who believe in Him would rather undergo severe torture, imprisonment, and even the cruelest of deaths than deny that they know Him? I know you don't hear of the plight of Christian martyrs around the world, because that is not the world you walk in. But they are there. What makes them willing to not only be killed, but suffer horrible tortures? An idea? A fable? A mere belief? Would you undergo the same for being gay, or would you renounce homosexuality and embrace heterosexual relationships if you were subjected to such?

I understand, Jeff and Greg, how it can seem foolish and ludicrous to believe in Someone that goes quite contrary to your lifestyle and worldview. I understand how it's much easier to reject belief in that Someone to be able to live your lifestyle with a minimum of conflict. Nobody ever said believing in and following the truth was easy. For conscience toward God, and refusal to do wrong, I have not been promoted at the company I work for, and my reputation as a moral man who is not profane, and deeply "religious" (their word) has kept me from the going on the golf weekends, being the go-to guy for my work, and various other 'concessions'. But that's okay. I still earn a living, and I am learning how to conduct my faith in God among those who are hostile to me because of that faith, and it's resulting actions. I know that you go at least that far with being gay.

And as for credit cards on the internet, and holy water and such, when a person comes to Jesus, and turns from their sin, and confesses and asks His forgiveness, and asks Jesus to be their Lord and Savior, there is an instantaneous occurance, but also the beginning of a process. That process is growing in faith and knowledge of the Lord. Some people take a break from the process, or never start it, or abandon it at some point. That makes them succeptible to the people who sell "holy water blessed by Jesus" on the internet. That isn't me. And when a person listens to God, He gives them a certain wisdom, and even cautions against involvement in certain enterprises, and we avoid many troubles if we listen to Him.

So, there you have it. Have a good day!

however it sure is distressing for you to count my testimonies as lies.

Not lies. That's only one possibility. And of course it's distressing to you, you seem to believe everything as fact.

That makes them succeptible to the people who sell "holy water blessed by Jesus" on the internet. That isn't me.

Oh, okay. So you don't believe everything someone tells you then. Then why do you expect someone else to?

Would you undergo the same for being gay, or would you renounce homosexuality and embrace heterosexual relationships if you were subjected to such?

Considering people are put to death all the time in place like Africa and Iran for being gay, you already have your answer right there.

I know of people who have been raised from the dead,

I know of all manner of healings

I know of a healthy and strong man who fell over dead when he sought to do harm to a young girl

Know of? As in you read it somewhere, or someone told it to you the way you are telling these things now? Or seen it yourself? Big difference.

Teabagger,

What about fists and feet that kick you? Or parents that tell you you are worthless and wished you were dead? How about a church that tells you that you are demon filled and going to hell and that God could never love you. How about having your property destroyed or damaged because of who you are?

By your standard, women must have been too thin skinned or looking for victim status when they led the charge that stated it was not ok to beat them and silence them or that they had no voice. Or that the slaves were the same way. Or the Native American. Or the Jewish. You state what you do because it runs counter current to your ideals and your beliefs. I would suspect, with as opinionated as you are, you would stand and rally a battle cry if you felt you were being treated in any of these manners.

And true, words are not the same as fists, but if language and attitude aren't confronted, it quickly turns into what is happening there and American history has taught us that in the past, we haven't been that far behind. A young man in Texas was ridiculed and harassed and called a "faggot" but no one could do anything. His body, or what was left of it, was dumped on his mothers lawn. They had to search for his decapitated head. He had been bound and drug behind a truck. So no, it's no a far fetched idea that something like that could happen here if those attitudes aren't confronted. How many dead Americans does it take before action is warranted?

teabagger, I guess no one ever told that 15 year old girl who hung herself after being harassed by a bunch of bullies at school that words would never harm her. You can verbally abuse someone to the point that they give up all hope. Have you never seen a woman or child who was verbally abused? Abused so badly that just a look or a movement makes them cringe in fear.

Words can be used like fists to beat someone down until they are but a shell of their former self.

alfie,

Until you either have gone through that level of horror and terror or watched a loved one go through it, you can't explain it to someone where they truly understand. It's the OLD rape philosophy, "She must have done something to have encouraged this." Take a genuine victim and turn it around on them so it doesn't inconvenience anyone else. It's also a lot like being heterosexual and declaring that being homosexual is a choice. How would anyone know it was a choice if they didn't have to choose? If it were simple choice, why would anyone want to lead a life that is so prone to violence and hatred? Truth is, no one would.

RossJ

So if is not a choice, are gays born that way? A birth defect?

micrometer - no defect involved. I could turn that comment around and ask "born stupid? A birth defect?"

Is being born left handed a defect? That used to be considered a defect and children were beaten if the didn't write with their right hand. Is being born red haired and light skinned a defect? They do burn more easily in the sun. How about being very short? Is that a defect? Of course none of these things are defects, they are things that "just are". However, it's interesting that people in a majority who need to feel superior will use these "defects" as a way of making themselves feel superior, which is a defect in psychology and mentation.

Speaking as a short, red-haired, left-handed guy, I do not regard these attributes as defects. Those attributes are selected naturally for some reason. I have the wherewithall and desire to reproduce, and thereby pass those traits on.

Homosexuals are different. As disgusted as I am by seeing two men together, I cannot hate them anymore than I can hate someone born with a hairlip or other disfiguring trait.

What happened to this guy after his death is wrong and senseless. Why punish the parents?

And just how much can you hate someone with a "hairlip [sic]" or other "disfiguring trait"? But I guess as long as you don't hate gay people any more than you hate them, it's okay. Pathetic.

Why can't you just say, "I do not hate them."?

Eventhough micro is NOT a short, red headed, leftie, he provides exactly what I am talking about. People who are different don't see their difference as a defect, but there are those that are different than them that do because it makes them feel superior. But I would venture the guess that unless you are really a red haired, short, lefty, you can't know what that experience is like. Sure you can dye your hair, wear lifters in your shoes and learn to right with your right hand, but it doesn't change the fact that you are still a red headed, short, lefty.

Micrometer - You know I have to interject that I find it entertaining when heterosexual men (who are different too) must mention to the world that they find it "disgusting" to see two men together when no one has asked them. Some people might find short, red-haired, left-handed men such as yourself disgusting as well and attribute some of your characteristics as defects. Do you realize that most gay people find it just as repulsive to see a heterosexual couple making out in public and would want you to get a room as you would a gay couple? Just some energizing food for thought.

Before people determine if it is a defect, proper trait, or going against "nature". Do some research into the field. Some highlights, it is normal behavior in many animal species (see Bonobo Chimps) and in the human species it is correlated with an increase in female fertility and an increase in extended family involvement in child rearing by the "gay uncles" to support the increase in fertility.

On the god side, once again the major books in the bible that identify it as "wrong" are the same ones that:

Give you 7 chapters on proper animal sacrifice. Later if you bring the wrong incense you'll be smited. Diseases make you impure for a certain amount of time. On but god is ok with male pattern baldness. But DON'T eat shellfish! Don't remember if you climax you're impure the rest of the day. Death sentences for adulterers. Banishment if you have sex with your menstruating spouse. If you have sex with your aunt you'll die childless. No one who's blind, a hunchback, or a dwarf, or has scurvy, a broken leg, a boil-scar, one leg longer than the other, or crushed testes can be a priest. Oh and give a tenth of your stuff to the lord. By all means if you're going to say it's unnatural and against god, better follow the other stuff.

RossJ: I never studied medicine, but do know why the body has what is called "white cells". Said cells are the human body's protection against infection. I guess many of the people you are complaining about are "society's" white cells. Trying in their own way of protecting the body society which is actually being destroyed because of the whims of a certain segment of said body/society.

R.Ford,

As a nurse, I'm going to just say this, your analogy is wrong. Why is it wrong? Because "white cells" like you indeed "go rouge" and start attacking the body and cause damage to the whole body. It's called an autoimmune disorder where the "white cells" that fight infection actually turn against the body and destroy it. Your behavior is more akin to the "rogue" cells than your analogy. Because, you see, there are studies done that show in history, GLBT people had very useful and specific places within societies. This whole ideal of homosexuality is a relatively new concept. I hate to break it to you, but the acts that are condemned in the Bible are acts of Pagan rituals that were used to glorify the gods. But even if you take out religion, homosexuality has a place in every natural system on this planet except for recent human history. This is where you become the "rogue" cell destroying what you "think" and "feel" is wrong simply because of your "feelings" and not an ounce of introspection.

RossJ, your comments make it seem like everyone should be passionate about what you are passionate about. That's ungrown, but that's okay. We all are on a journey, and none of us are yet who we will ultimately be. I happen to agree with you, that these incidents in Africa should spark outrage from the Christian community. I don't know about Muslim, because they have a different view of things, and I can't speak to that except to say that they too are children of promise, realized only through Jesus Christ.

Not everyone who names the Name, "God" or "Jesus" means the same thing, and it is really important to know what a person means when they do or say something in the name of "God", "Allah", "Jesus", or any other.

Come on, man. I find myself agreeing with your general points here, but don't try to come off as some elite authority by saying, "Unlike all of you, I have been to Africa five times..."

So great, I guess you could be correct in that I can only verify your lame assumptions as they relate to myself. You are unlike me. I have been to Africa 27 times.

Why bother assuming things like that about others? It comes off as arrogant and it deflects light from your truth.

No, the mental illness is allowing others to suffer because of a personally held belief. Mental illness is quietly saying nothing as fellow Americans lose their homes, their property, denied health care, etc because of a belief system. Mental illness is not stepping up and saying, "I don't personally agree but it doesn't matter what I believe, no one in America should be treated like a second class citizen."

Where do you get that cr@p from? Homosexuality is not a mental illness nor is it a crime. Have any reliable medical proof to back up your statement or just your opinion? You might not like it but homosexuality is found in nature, its part of nature.

BigThreeMakeCrappyCars

We need to get these people help.. Homosexuality is a mental illness, not a crime.*** You are roughly 37 years behind the times, more on, "educate thyself", please.

*** " Psychology was one of the first disciplines to study homosexuality as a discrete phenomenon. In the late 19th century, and throughout most of the 20th century, it was standard for psychology to view homosexuality in terms of pathological models as a mental illness. That classification began to be subjected to critical scrutiny in research which consistently failed to produce any empirical or scientific basis for regarding homosexuality as a disorder or abnormality. As results from such research accumulated, professionals in medicine, mental health, and the behavioral and social sciences reached the conclusion that it was inaccurate to classify homosexuality as a mental disorder and that the DSM classification reflected untested assumptions based on once-prevalent social norms and clinical impressions from unrepresentative samples comprising patients seeking therapy and individuals whose conduct brought them into the criminal justice system.^[1] The research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality. The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal variation of human sexual orientation.^[2] In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder. The American Psychological Association Council of Representatives followed in 1975.^[3]

To be gay is to be odd to say the lest. A act OF SIN no more or less. One that has little or no faith but in there self, Not God. Few in numbers but still there. Gays will tell you how long they been here, And what sciences has to say about them . But over all. Most see them as sick and in need of help.

Sin? According to the Bible, any sex outside of marriage AND for any purpose other than procreating is a sin. Even "spilling your seed on the ground" is considered a sin. I guess that makes every man, including you, I'm sure, a sinner. So let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

drip-587087

To be gay is to be odd to say the lest.***To be a drip is odd, to say the 'least'.

A act OF SIN no more or less. One that has little or no faith but in there self, Not God. Few in numbers but still there. Gays will tell you how long they been here, And what sciences has to say about them . But over all.

Most see them as sick and in need of help.*** You're the ill one.

Alfie @9.2

"...Its part of nature."

So is A.I.D.S., Alfie.

micrometer, ok let me say it this way...homosexuality is not a mental illness nor is it a disease, no matter what some would like you to believe.

Africa is the only continent where the Phelps klan has not been banned by at least 3 different gov'ments. The family should move there and do *humanitarian* work with the locals. Maybe they could be eaten by lions.

What do you have against lions?

North America only has 3 governments, and the US hasn't banned them; has Mexico?. Australia doesn't even have 3 governments either way; Antarctica not even one. Which are the at least three governments in Asia and three in South America that have banned them, just for my own curiosity?

I like letting the Phelps bunch be heard loud and clear. They are only manifesting exactly what's in that wretched book, the Bible. (To cherry pick only the good/convenient parts is absolutely criminal. Same goes for the Quran and Torah.)

From what I've seen on social networking sites, some people who are the more despicable closet bigots find themselves compelled to publicly condemn their demonstrative Phelps brethren and, as a result, might start to curb their own fanatical and disgusting worldviews.

I absolutely share your amazement over the blatant racism in some of these comments.

What did this article really say? That there are pockets of fanatical religious zealots (from both Christian and Muslim communities) influencing power hungry politicians and manipulating the minds of ignorant mobs to perpetrate and perpetuate heinous monstrosities against their fellow man.

This exact behavior has been evident on this and every continent, save Antarctica, throughout all of recorded history - it is not something limited to one race of people. As mentioned in other comments here, very similar hate-filled atrocities have been carried out in the US in recent years - by people of varying races and religions and based on all degrees of prejudice. It's disgusting to point at the actions of an abominable few, in what was cited as 4 recorded instances, and label an entire continent of people as a "bunch of animals and savages". Pathetic.

I will never understand why anyone would be concerned with whom two (or more) grown adults have chosen to love or be intimate. It's despicable that so many on here have so little sense of shared humanity that they either dismiss this horror because of some atrocious belief that it can only be expected from a "land of beasts", or refuse to speak out against such evil, chiding instead that "it's just a gay issue; let them come to the rescue."

The bigotry, the hate, the violence, the apathy, and the indifference are all unacceptable. We know wrong when we see it, and this is wrong. I couldn't live a decent life if I didn't speak out against this evil, no matter where it occurs.

newsflash

America is a nation built on racism, bigotry, genderism, age-ism, sexism.

"Do as we say, not as we do" the REAL motto of America.

Gays don,t just what to be left alone. Now they what money rights and more. IF they just did it be hind closed doors that would be ok i guess but they don't. There out there trying to push it down on all of the rest of us. And if you are not gay your the mean sick one to them. So it's gay or not gay.

Blue Devil

If you don't like America, please leave. I am sure there are a lot of countries that would welcome you and your anti-American rhetoric.

Blue d. Its the likes of you who live in this country or off this country to say something like that. as you were told, Move to your home land please make it soon, To your gay land.

It's not anti-anything, except anti-ignorance, to point out this country's short-comings and sad history. What did the guy above say? That we have a history of bigotry and prejudice that shadows our culture back to its roots. That truth is so evident that there's no room for debate.

We were founded by Puritans who sadistically tortured anyone who expressed different beliefs.

We effectively wiped out a continent of native people in what amounts to mass genocide.

We built a strong economy on the backs of slaves.

The government was originally organized so only wealthy white males could participate (white land owners were the only ones who could vote.)

Every step of the way was a constant battle to include the rest of the population in this "Land of the Free".

- Ok, first we'll let poor white men it; that'll shut them up and break their unity with poor black men. (First expansion of voting rights...and by the way, we'll let wealthy white men like slave owners count their slave property as a little extra credit in the equation to off-set any of these new folks joining the club - 3/5ths compromise)

Decades later...ok, now we'll let black men in, but all blacks must still be separated over here, and we can all agree that all the women are to be seen and not heard. (A few more rights)

Decades later...ok, women can have a voice, but equality and fairness in the workplace is not up for a vote. Oh yeah, and I almost forgot, if anyone wants their voice to be heard, they have to be literate. (Creeping ever so slowly to more rights)

Decades later (a time many of our friends and family lived through personally)...ok, we'll let all the colored folks drink out of this fountain and sit in these seats and we won't use the fire hoses on them, but only because we were ordered to through threat of the National Guard, otherwise we'd still like it if they were kept over there, please. (Keep going, at least on paper)

Now today, among other battles, the bigotry this country has known its whole life is manifesting itself through calls to amend the Constitution to ban certain kinds of love from being personally expressed. Oh, and just so not to make our modern times feel left out of the velvet rope club the rest of our time has been known for, people in DC (the vast majority of whom are black, and quite a few are openly gay, come to think of it) are still denied the right to be in the club. (No vote).

My apologies to the many who have suffered in this country due to the hate of their fellow countrymen that I did not mention here. It's not America bashing to point this out. It's the proper thing to do as responsible human beings; reflect on your history and try to progress.

I will not be leaving this country, as a few of you suggest, as this whole Earth is my right to enjoy, and the whole Earth is my responsibility to respect.

bluedevil, you can't possibly be as stupid as you sound!

Gays don,t just what to be left alone. Now they what money rights and more. IF they just did it be hind closed doors that would be ok i guess but they don't. There out there trying to push it down on all of the rest of us. And if you are not gay your the mean sick one to them. So it's gay or not gay.

Gays only want the same rights that everyone else in this country already have. I have no clue what you mean by "money rights" - in fact, your posts in general are hard to decipher because of the poor language usage. What do you think would happen in this country if gay men and women decided they would stop paying taxes until they were given equal rights? Is that the kind of "money right" you mean? As far as gays "pushing things down" on others - isn't that what straight people have done to gays for decades?

george, I applaud you for your intelligent, well-reasoned post. I love my country, but that doesn't mean I have to think it's perfect, and it certainly doesn't mean ignoring its history of discrimination.

I disagree with both of you. Savages and subhumans are all over the world and white, brown, or yellow doesn't mean squat. Regardess of of these animals' ethnicity you take problems you might have with a human and you deal with them one way. Similar problems you have with rats, dogs, or wild boars you handle another way entirely.

If 500 mountain lions were terrorizing my village I wouldn't target them based on the tone of their fur. I'd try my best to kill each and every last one of them. If you see people with color and bring it up, ever, you are in fact someone who still separates people in your head by their ethnicity. Yes, you are basically practicing Jim Crowe laws in your head when you organize your thoughts.

drip-587087

Gays don,t just what to be left alone. Now they what money rights and more. IF they just did it be hind closed doors that would be ok i guess but they don't. There out there trying to push it down on all of the rest of us. And if you are not gay your the mean sick one to them. So it's gay or not gay.

Blue d. Its the likes of you who live in this country or off this country to say something like that. as you were told, Move to your home land please make it soon, To your gay land.

*** Remember, do not drink and type. The Keyboard Police are out in full force tonight.

Even in the USA it is not a gay disease. It is virtually split evenly between African Americans and gay people along with everyone else.

jessix............and ....we also should recall that it was just over a month or so agao, when good old Pat Roberstson blamed the earthquake in Haiti on all those folks who practice voodoo.

Pat Robertson loves money more than he loves G-d.

Gays voodoo kind of the same. But what do gays care what the bible has to say about any thing. Most gays don't think what the bible has to say to be true. The bible is not for gays. The bible said that being gay is wrong. But gays say it is good. Who's right? I think God.

AIDS was first called GRID. Gay Related Immune Disease

The term was changed when a significant number of victims were found among Haitians, hemophiliacs and heroin users, which were mostly straight.

drp-587087

The same chapter in teh bible that is also the major one cited as stating homosexuality is wrong also indicates (from my earlier post):

"Give you 7 chapters on proper animal sacrifice. Later if you bring the wrong incense you'll be smited. Diseases make you impure for a certain amount of time. On but god is ok with male pattern baldness. But DON'T eat shellfish! Don't remember if you climax you're impure the rest of the day. Death sentences for adulterers. Banishment if you have sex with your menstruating spouse. If you have sex with your aunt you'll die childless. No one who's blind, a hunchback, or a dwarf, or has scurvy, a broken leg, a boil-scar, one leg longer than the other, or crushed testes can be a priest. Oh and give a tenth of your stuff to the lord. By all means if you're going to say it's unnatural and against god, better follow the other stuff. "

And the bible is not for gays? I guess I'll make sure all my homosexual buddies know that god's words are not for them. Hopefully you've never had sex with someone menstruating, otherwise you'll be banished.

drip-587087

Gays voodoo kind of the same.*** Exactly what is "gay voodoo?

But what do gays care what the bible has to say about any thing.*** It depends upon what gay you ask. More on, if they are smart, they won't have anything to do with the fairy-tales in it, to begin with. After all, we can see already that those who profess to live behind it are the worst haters and bigots, to start with, you being the poster boy.

Most gays don't think what the bible has to say to be true. The bible is not for gays. The bible said that being gay is wrong. But gays say it is good. Who's right? I think God.*** God didn't say one word about "being gay".

Now gay voodoo, thats a religion i could get behind (LOL PUN).

No one is advocating that everyone becomes a homosexual, just to allow those of us who are to live their life with the same rights an dignity that anyone else does. Gay men and women are roughly 10% of the population, there is no risk that we are going to run out of people any time soon because of them. The blame rests with the individuals that perpetrate these acts and the leaders that incite the hate that causes them and not the religious doctrine of the people.

Carol Ann, please see my post at #7.1 before you start with the its Islam not Christianity that is doing this. There are Christian evangelicals going over to Africa and stirring up trouble as well in regards to homosexuality.

I also believe that one the biggest hurdles to homosexuals being able get married here in the States are religious institutions (all of them, not just Islam). Some even like to say that it will harm the institution of marriage. What they haven't figured out yet it seems is that the institution of marriage is already damaged (50% divorce rate) by us heterosexuals. I'm not even going to get into people like Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps blaming everything on homosexuals.

Its fine that you say that the bible says it is wrong, but you have to remember that the US is a secular state and people aren't held to the standards and laws set forth in the bible. You need to clean your own house before you start blaming others for the problems in theirs.

alfie-omega, alfie, you're off the rail.

this body desecration case in the news is the MUSLIM reaction to the homosexual problem of AIDS etc....NOT the "good Christians". CHRISTIANS were NOT mentioned in this report.

WHY "derail" this report? it is.however, an interesting observation to see that the CHRISTIANS, JEWS, and MUSLIMS, and COMMUNISTS, and people the world over, have problems with having homosexuality imposed on them. that, however, is not the story today. this report is on MUSLIM reaction to homosexuality in their neighborhood. HOW ever did you miss the following details in the report?

Associated Press report says: In March 2008, Senegal hosted an international summit of Muslim nations, which prompted a nationwide crackdown on behaviors deemed un-Islamic, including homosexuality.

Muslum sermons
Imams began using Friday sermons to preach against homosexuality.

"During the time of the Prophet, anytime two men were found together, they were taken to the top of a mountain and thrown off," says Massamba Diop, the imam of a mosque in Pikine and the head of Jamra, an Islamic lobby linked to a political party in Senegal's parliament.

In November 2008, residents in Pikine removed a corpse from a mosque of another suspected homosexual and left it on the side of the road.

Diallo went into hiding....Unable to go to the doctor, By the spring of 2009, he was so ill that his family checked him into St. Jean de Dieu, a Catholic hospital in downtown Thies, says the friend. (DID YOU NOTICE? the CHRISTIAN CATHOLICS took him in for CARE!!!!)

Hours after he died, his family took Diallo's body to a nearby mosque, where custom holds the corpse should be bathed and wrapped in a white cloth. Before the family could bathe him, news reached the mosque that Diallo was gay and they were chased out, says the dead man's friend. His relatives hastily wrapped him in a sheet and headed to the cemetery, where they carried him past the home of Babacar Sene.

"A man that's known as being a homosexual can't be buried in a cemetery. His body needs to be thrown away like trash," says Sene.

quotes taken from Associated Press report ~NBC

"the media" needs to start putting MUSLIM in the headlines to make things CLEAR for people who BLAME Christians for things they DO NOT DO! CHRISTIAN BASHING is a travesty.

fire letterman, how am I "off the rail"?

Carol Ann stated:

It is Islam, the religion of peace that acts on the belief that homosexuality is wrong.

Put the blame where it belongs....with the religion of peace...

To which I responded, its not just Islam or Muslims. Which it isn't, no matter how blind and deaf you want to be when it comes to the nasty side of religions.

CHRISTIANS were NOT mentioned in this report.

fire letterman, no, not specifically but the report did mention:

A wave of intense homophobia is washing across Africa, where homosexuality is already illegal in at least 37 countries.

In the last year alone, gay men have been arrested in Kenya, Malawi, Sierra Leone and Nigeria. In Uganda, lawmakers are considering a bill that would sentence homosexuals to life in prison and include capital punishment for 'repeat offenders.' And in South Africa, the only country that recognizes gay rights, gangs have carried out so-called "corrective" rapes on lesbians.

For those of us who like to know about what we are reading, lets break down the religion of the above mentioned countries:

Kenya: mostly Christian

The vast majority of Kenyans are Christian with 45% regarding themselves as Protestant and 33% as Roman Catholic. Sizeable minorities of other faiths do exist. There is a fairly large Hindu population in Kenya (around 500,000), who have integrated well with the community and play a key role in Kenya's economy. (Muslim 10%, indigenous beliefs 10%) but estimates for the percentage of the population that adheres to Islam or indigenous beliefs vary widely.^[2] Sixty percent of the Muslim population lives in Coast Province, comprising 50 percent of the total population there. Western areas of Coast Province are mostly Christian. The upper part of Eastern Province is home to 10 percent of the country's Muslims, where they are the majority religious group and apart from a small ethnic Somali population in Nairobi, the rest of the country is largely Christian.

Malawi: mostly Christian

Christian 79.9%, Muslim 12.8%, other 3%, none 4.3%

Sierra Leone: mostly Muslim

Sierra Leone is a predominantly Muslim nation. Followers of Islam are estimated to comprise 60% of Sierra Leone's population. Muslim predominate in all of the country's three provinces and plus the Western Area. those of Christianity 10%, and those of African indigenous religion, 30%.

Nigeria: a mix

According to Nigerian religious and demographic survey,^[10] Muslims make up 50.5% of the population,they are mainly found in the northern part of the country. Majority of Nigerian Muslims are Sunni. Christians are the second largest religious group making up 48.2% of the population, they dominate in the middle belt and southern part of the country, while adherents of other religions make up 1.4% of the population.

If you'd care to take a look at a religious map of Africa, you would see its a split between Christianity and Islam with people from both religions also practicing local or folk religions.

"the media" needs to start putting MUSLIM in the headlines to make things CLEAR for people who BLAME Christians for things they DO NOT DO! CHRISTIAN BASHING is a travesty.

The bashing of any religion based on narrowly formed views or opinions is a travesty. You want the word Muslim placed in headlines? Well, the majority of the countries mentioned in this article concerning the abuse of homosexuals are predominantly Christian, Uganda in particular tried to pass a law making homosexuality a crime. 37 other countries have also passed anti-homosexuality laws and even though I don't know all 37, just by the make up of the continent, you can bet that a fair piece of that would be considered Christian countries.

Believe what you will, but until Christians clean their own houses, they should not be pointing a finger at other religions because of the bad behavior of a few radicals or misguided/ill taught religious few. Some Christians have a tendency to forget Matthew 7: 1-3...you know, where the Bible states:

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or does that not fit into your personal view of how Christianity should work. Condemn others, but forget that your own are just as reprehensible in these acts. You blame it on Muslims because they are the only ones mentioned in the article even though Christian leaning countries in Africa have criminalized homosexuality. That is really sad and I can see why people get fed up with religions.

Wow, generalization much? Who is this you that you are referring to Rolland?

There is no comparison between a man with 52 wives and two adult men who want their relationship legally recognized.

Anyone who has ACTUALLY read the Bible knows that both polygamy and homosexuality were NORMAL in the cultures of the time documented in the Bible.

Leviticus is a record of JEWISH law for a time in history when the Jewish people were living in other people's cultures. Those laws were to keep the Jewish people *not of this world*.

To read the reality of homosexuality in the teachings of a guy named Jesus Christ......

Matthew 19 : 1 - 12

FYI: Islam allows a maximum of four wives under the condition that the man can "treat them equally".

I'm not condoning polygamy, but Paul's claim that "there is no comparison between a man with 52 wives and two adult men who want their relationship legally recognized" is kind of misleading.

Furthermore, not all Muslims practice polygamy - the same as not all Americans cheat on their spouses and get divorces (I'm not equating polygamy with divorce and adultery). The blatant generalizations that are being thrown around here (not just in this comment thread, but on Newsvine in general) do not help the discourse.

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but it should be remembered that it is just that...your opinion.

Bluedevil the biggest thing I see in Matthew 19: 1-12 is statements on divorce.

"9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”"

Lots of the "fundamentalist" christians have divorced. Damned adulterers. Also it seems to me from that in my "interpretation" that EVERYONE should be married. ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’

So in otherwords if you don't get married you are not following the teachings. Damned single people. All up for interpretation isn't it?

BlueDevilBasher, wrote: "Anyone who has ACTUALLY read the Bible knows that both polygamy and homosexuality were NORMAL in the cultures of the time documented in the Bible."

NO. just because the BIBLE reports on what was COMMON in certain areas of the world DOES NOT mean that it was "normal."

Sodom and Gomorrah went to smithereens for being so infested. it was not safe for a "normal" man to walk there. new men to the town all went up on the meat market for the lecherous men and boys of the city. even after the angels smote the men who were marching on the house to USE the new meat that arrived that day, the blinded homosexuals STILL kept GROPING around trying to find the new guys to use. THAT is how EVIL, and compuslive, and addicted, the place had gotten. the homosexuals had gotten very demanding and extremely agressive and "nobody!" was going to say "NO!" to THEM!

well, they got told. poof! smithereens. like some sort of atomic bomb went off.

GENESIS 18, 19 etc.

Sodom and Gomorrah went to smithereens for being so infested

By all means, point to a map that shows the location of these two cities. Their time of existence wasn't all that long ago, right? It's not like it was millions of years ago. So surely there should be some maps with the cities listed on them somewhere shouldn't there?

Greg ,He who seeks shell find.

He who has a map doesn't have to tell others to go search for it.

Blame Ronald Reagan. He preached *gay equals A.I.D.S.*. He is the source of the American brainwashing about that daum virus. Television preachers who love money more than G-d saw a printing machine for free money. Religion and the G.O.P. ran with it for the sake of fame and fortune.

I knew it would be just a matter of time before someone blamed Reagan and the GOP.

Reagans comments were made in an era when a lot less was known about AIDS. While today AIDS affects other groups in the US also, being a sexually active gay male is the number one risk factor for having the disease. To deny that is utter stupidity. It is like the tobacco companies denying the link between their product and lung cancer.

Look whats blaming Reagan. The one he was talking about. Gays don't like Reagan now.

Paul-1686290, what's with the: "So sad how Christianity can be twisted to justify peoples hate."??

how many TIMES do VINE readers need to be told? this is a report on MUSLIM reaction to homosexals in their MUSLIM community!!!!!! has NOTHING to do with CHRISTIANITY!

fire letterman... After reading your comments I'm afraid there is a definite possibility that you seriously can't comprehend the relationship between the article and the intent of the post. It bees that way. I'm just sayin. Be Kewl, Stay in school.

You're partly right but there are some countries especially in Europe where no one even cares. When people start using religion to justify beatings, murders etc. that is when we are in the danger zone. Things are slowly changing over time. It's no longer palatable even in America to be an outright bigot. You WILL be called out for it.

There is still a very loooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnng way to go in America.

Move to Africa.

Why is it sad?

Please explain homophobic ... what the hell is homophobic and how does it apply to homosexual discussion?

homophobia is an aversion to perversion.

Homophobia = ignorant on reality

Regional statistics for HIV & AIDS, end of 2008

RegionAdults & children
living with HIV/AIDSAdults & children
newly infectedAdult prevalence*Deaths of
adults & children

Sub-Saharan Africa
22.4 million
1.9 million
5.2%
1.4 million

North Africa & Middle East
310,000
35,000
0.2%
20,000

South and South-East Asia
3.8 million
280,000
0.3%
270,000

East Asia
850,000
75,000
<0.1%
59,000

Oceania
59,000
3900
0.3%
2,000

Latin America
2.0 million
170,000
0.6%
77,000

Caribbean
240,000
20,000
1.0%
12,000

Eastern Europe & Central Asia
1.5 million
110,000
0.7%
87,000

North America
1.4 million
55,000
0.4%
25,000

Western & Central Europe
850,000
30,000
0.3%
13,000

Global Total
33.4 million
2.7 million
0.8%
2.0 million

Where did you get these stats? I might have been reading different stats but I was under the impression that there were around 30-33 million infected with HIV in Africa...worldwide HIV isn't a gay disease though and never has been.

AVERT.org......you know what they say about stats....hahaha..........I'll bet we can go to 5 more sites and they'll all be slightly off. So, eventually we'll get close.

AVERT.org.....I've tried to post this twice to you, let's see if it goes thru this time. Most all of the sites are real close to "averts..."

Yep....34.3 million for total Africa in 2008....

Thanks man. I just hate when people blame any one group of people for HIV...it's unfair and untrue stereotype. I have several friends with HIV one has had it for almost 30 years and is happy, healthy and successful. The stigma will hopefully go away soon.

You have to blame some minority group if you have any hopes of making any money.

While AIDS is a non-gender specific disease throughout the rest of the world, it is still largely a gay disease in America.

This seed is about treatment of gays, not about AIDS.

I find it interesting that people who insist that AIDS is a gay disease never take into account the low rates of lesbian HIV transmission. It's the sex acts involved, not the sex of the people involved. If AIDS were some sort of God-given punishment for sleeping with people of the same sex, lesbians would have the same rates. They don't, because oral and manual sex have much lower transmission rates for all STDs than vaginal or anal intercourse (which straight couples engage in, too, mind you). So, really, if you're arguing that AIDS is a punishment for sleeping with the wrong people or having the wrong kind of sex, then you're kind of arguing that God wants us all to be lesbians.

In your dreams. When you be come gay you get things like aids.

You don't "become" gay any more than you "become" heterosexual - you are BORN that way. And here's a question I'd like to see answered - if AIDS is allegedly a) a byproduct of being homosexual or b) a punishment from God for being homosexual - why are there almost NO cases of AIDS among lesbians? Isn't their "sin" just as bad? Or does God just think women have enough problems?

Artsynomad-

Bingo! I have said the same thing for years. Lesbians are obviously god's Chosen People due to the almost non-existent rate of AIDS among them. And the Homophobes are just too stupid to see how using the "god's Revenge" argument makes this obvious. I believe in god, most definitely. But I do NOT believe in Talking Snakes, Flying People, and Zombies, which if someone proclaims themselves to be a christian, is exactly what they believe in.

The really scary part is that people who believe this crap run our government, and base a lot of their laws on it.

Organized religion is basically nothing more than superstition with rules and money attached to it. They will tell you that you cannot possibly understand the mind of god, but then turn around and tell you how he wants you to vote in the next election. If I say something like "Oh for god's sake" in a conversation, I will be told not to take the lords name in vain. But these same people will then use god's name to bully others and make their lives miserable, somehow convincing themselves that they are not using the lord's name in vain.

When people have fcked up views like this, is it any wonder that our societies are screwed up as well?

I may never get to heaven, but I'm OK with that. If heaven means sitting around listening to the insignificant drivel of people like Falwell, Robertson, and Phelps, I'd rather not. Being there with those types of people would really be hell.

drip-587087 Comment collapsed by the community

In your dreams. When you be come gay you get things like aids.*** And when you become homophobic and hateful, you get collapsed by the community.

Odd kay. Thanks for the tip. The lord has my back. You can and i can't. You can call me names that's ok , But if i do then its wrong. That's odd don't you think. And not right.

I understand. I just don't think it's right. Hopefully one day it will change since it's just not fair.

Culture justifies nothing.culture changes and is fluid. We set into motion the changes that created this culture through colonialism and economic imperialism and we are partially responsible for the consequences.

Violence against a minority for any reason is not acceptable, we sat back and did nothing in Rwanda and it is a travesty if we allow for this to continue here.

What's sad is that there are 1.4 million people in North America living with AIDS as of 2008. With all the education and hype regarding this disease you'd think this disease would have been all be eliminated here. I hear it's actually on the rise again in the US. The sad part is it's very difficult to regulate people's thoughts and behaviors.

Eagles, one of the main reasons the rate of AIDS is on the rise is that it's no longer considered the "death sentence" it used to be, because of newly developed treatments. Fear of death is a pretty powerful motivation for not engaging in certain risky behaviors. Remove that fear, and people tend to drift back to their old ways. Straight people are just as guilty of this, by the way - look how many unplanned pregnancies and cases of STDs there are because people "just didn't want to use condoms". We can educate people all we want, but it doesn't prevent them from doing harmful things.

I never said I wanted to go there you IDIOT. I was condemning what happened to this man. That's you attitude? If you don't like it don't go there? You should be ashamed of yourself. Also when it comes to HIV the only way you can get it is through blood, semen or breast milk...Are you worried you can get it through a handshake? Ignorance.

Rolland,

I don't know where you were born, but you're clearly not a native English speaker. It seems like you're trying to give us a universal insider insight into how the average "African" sees the world and wants to live. If that's what you're trying to purport, I'm sorry, but I don't believe you in even the slightest. However, just to point out how utterly foolish and disgusting your comments are, I will enlighten you to the following:

Even if every African demanded that they, in fact, "don't want gay", you're out of your pathetic and despicable mind if you think that we'd all just be silent and let you do your hate in peace.

While some on this board have made it clear they are all for such atrocious behavior, or will at least be complicit in it through their silence, most of us don't prescribe to the advice of, "Mind your own business/Don't go there." Hard and determined struggle has been known to be required for us to advance as a people with respect to our treatment of one another, and most of us will not sit back, sit still, or sit quiet when it comes to genocide, slavery, torture, or any mistreatment of our fellow man (or animal or earth for that matter).

Can you imagine if everyone took you ignorant and abhorrent advice when South African whites said, "We don't want to mix with Blacks - If you don't like it, don't come", or when Nazi Germans said, "It's our culture - We don't want Jews - Eff off if you don't like it."? Of course Apartheid and the Holocaust are just two of the most known human tragedies in the world; every culture has endured and performed similar injustices on their fellow man throughout history. That makes us all responsible for fighting to eradicate such reprehensible behavior whenever and wherever we see it. And that starts by turning our heads directly at such evil and calling it out. We will not close our mind. We will not close our mouth. We will not walk away.

Learn from this lesson and use the inspiration that made you put forth the effort to comment here to actually defend your fellow man who is suffering; not excuse his oppressor.

It's not good to be gay.

It's not good to be stupid either! What a bunch of self righteous numb skulls! I'm all for free speech but the ignorance coming off these pages are reminiscent of the 1700s not 2010. Are we not supposed to be an advanced society? And to all you so called self righteous Christians who claim to hold the torch for the almighty you'd better did a little deeper into the scriptures because if what is contained there is true many of you vile hearted racist, homophobic demons are going to bust hell wide open. And that's a fact!

drip-587087

It's not good to be gay.***It's not good to be a drip, either.

It's not good to be a bigot. And that's something you CHOOSE to be too drp.

Yous don't like me be cause i tell the truth. And you don't like it .When you grow up you will see the light. Three gays in a roll, That love to call people like me names.

Call names? No. Refer to you as what you are being? Yes.

For instance, you could call us men, or homosexual men, or United States citizens and all would be correct and not name calling. Meanwhile, someone that is hateful, or who says bigoted things, is going to be called a bigot.

I don't know why drippy thinks that I'm gay. Maybe if I talk baseball, he'll call me a player again? Just think of the possibilities!!

Golly Mr. President, I didn't know you were on Newsvine. Give my regards to Michelle.

So many reasons to hate. So many reasons to kill. So many reasons to trash the teachings of very enlightened prophet: "Love thy neighbour as thyself". So many reasons to block ANY suggestion that we try JUST FOR A YEAR, for instance, putting all these hatred-fuelled activities aside. Why not just TRY it? Just TRY thinking twice before yelling out "GOD DAMNED ______s! LETS KILL THEM ALL!" and then replacing it with-- "Well, maybe let them have their way, if they're not hurting anything but your own preconceptions. If it works out that the world is NOT a happier, freer place, then go back to the time tested strategies of murder, torture, rape and oppression as tactics as creating a happier environment.

You see, happiness, love, and friendship are INCREDIBLY habit-forming, and lumping them in with other habit forming behaviours that are NOT healthy is SO easy, that that is what we always seem to have done. Try it my way-- just try it for a year. That's all I ask.

micrometer... Michelle says Hey, and be sure to chew your cud before you swallow. Don't be a statistic.