What should make us sick to the core is not that incident, what should make us sick is that we started this war. We had no business going in to Iraq. What you see in that video happens all the time in war. The soldiers suspected an RPG and did what they thought was right. Don't blame this on the soldiers. It was the American people who started this war and as a result killed tens of thousands of innocent people.

Conservative not neoCon - I agree with your sentiments entirely but when you ask 'why was this story buried for nearly 3 years', I can only respond by asking: where have you been for the last seven years since Bush et al invaded Iraq. The amount of information that remains buried is mind-boggling. Even the Obama administration is actively suppressing information. Accountability STARTS with the freedom of citizens to fully access and assess the actions of our elected officials. When those officials, left and right, use national security as a front to cover up the truth, we have to ask: where is the accountability in our system? Knowledge is power - and if we don't have the right - even in a society that claims that we do - to view/read/assess what's apparently done on our behalf, then we really don't have the freedoms we all erroneously believe that we do. Perhaps its time to democratize our democracy and realize that the claim we are a democracy is indeed fallacious.

The United States invasion of Iraq has cost the lives over over 1 MILLION Iraqis.

The pretext of our invasion was a lie.

Do you feel safe now?

Get real! War is Hell! Soldiers are send to fight and kill, not to police, protect or liberate or all those other less offensive phrases tossed about. These young men and women are trained to do this. So whether you thought the war was justified or not, don't fool yourself into thinking that the US was just being forthright and acting in the name of freedom. The goal was to gain political and economic strongholds in the middleeast by killing and subduing anyone that would try to stop us.

In other words, you are saying that our Amerian military are nothing but murderous thugs? That's what YOU are calling them?

This is sickening... there is not much to say. One side will argue that this is cost of war, another will question it... Right now, the current administration is still protecting much of pervious administration's action (probably for consistency).

Sickening... and it takes the press from another country to report this.

I know many military "people" and alot of them are just what the system manufactured.... killing machines yet when it comes to their friends, family and their nation it is DIFFERENT.

I didn't use those terms, you did. All I said is they did what they were trained to do and we can't be surprised, or all morally outraged when these things happen. You can't go and get all morally superior and slap a smily face on every dead civilians face in the name of America. If you support these type of conflicts then these are the realities.

I agree. How is this different from the Army psychiatrist who randomly shot people at his base a while ago? This is just as murderous. Where is the outrage? Why was this not released earlier? Nice job of communicating to the Iraqis what American version of 'freedom' is really like. It's the freedom of killing people with the bravery of being out of range. What a shame. These bastards give a bad name to the rest of our honorable military. They should receive the harshest punishment.

SteveJ - yes we should expect better. And no, this is not what training is all about. If so; their superiors must be punished as well. Anyone with half a brain and morals would know shooting unarmed civilians as if they are targets in a video game is a "BAD" thing. I don't care what kind of training they get.

These soldiers know the rules of engagement and broke them. They were in no danger at that range even from RPGs. And firing on a van that was trying to aid the wounded by unarmed civilians is murder. Plain and simple. Murder. Whoever called for the fire order and the officer that gave it are criminals.

All I'm saying is that this is a part of war. I have never served, but I have many friends and relatives that have. These things have been going on in every war throughout history. My Father about drank himself to death because of his part in the execution of 6 German civians in a bar in Germany in WWII cause somebody in his unit thought they looked dangerous. My father never fired his gun but lived with the memory. A family friend that was in Vietnam talked about his unit going into a village and just opening fire on the locals because there was a report that there were Viet Kong there.

I'm not judging anyone, just stating facts. It just amazs me that most Americans think that we just shoot the bad guys like John Wayne. Its war, and justified or not this is what happens.

That's true. Bad things happen in a war. When they do though - breaking all rules of engagement and all - the perpetrators must be punished. The fact that it's classified as war does not and should not provide these criminals with a free pass.

This was a bad move, even if they had guns, they obviously werent firing on the U.S. and our laws don't aply there. So this is just bad news and too bad. Makes us look bad.

I guess when they advised it was a war zone, they missed the definition. As sad and tragic as this might appear it is what we train our military to do. You want peace keeping send the police, you want legallities then send planes full of lawyers to fight the next conflict.

The US Military (especially the Marine Corps oohhh rahhh) is here for one purpose and thats mess people and things up! Not keep law and order, not public relations, not handing out rice. If you dont want them there to fight then bring them back home.

Uh, a lot of us DON'T want them there and have been saying it for years, not in the least for this very reason.

While this was indeed unfortunate, I'm not too quick to condemn. But any news reporters or photographers have to understand that there is a great deal of risk in reporting from on the ground in a dangerous area. But it is reasonable for the pilots to mistakenly think what they were observing were weapons, not cameras, etc.

Sad but true. In any war or military conflict, a lot of innocents sometimes become casualties.

the shameful/ reckless ways of; Rules of Engagement..while recklessness is not the blatant intention, hindsight is Not good enough..it is important that things must be damn sure to one's utmost ability to get things done RIGHT..any other way; one may subjected to answer for it in regretful way, deemed by public outcry and military justice..stupidity is not an excuse..

Greg in Oceanside:

Been there, done that, and your stupid rationale holds no water! All the Marines that come home thinking they're heroes after indiscriminate killing are far from being that! Don't delude yourself; I work with your "heroes" everyday and and their callous attitude towards other Americans is disgusting. They come home with that same "kill 'em all" mentality and threaten the citizens they swore to protect-not what heroes do!

HMC(SS/FMF) USN-RET (GULF WAR/SOMALIA)

Greg - come on. Being in a war zone does not strip one off all his/her common sense, training and overall humanity. Saddam could have used the same excuse. Hey, he was in war with his own people. Things happen in war. Right? No, not right. There is right, and yes there are more complex situations as well, and then there is wrong. This one is plain wrong.

neopo

I know many military "people" and alot of them are just what the system manufactured.... killing machines yet when it comes to their friends, family and their nation it is DIFFERENT.

- Mon Apr 5, 2010 7:07 PM EDT.

and how on earth is this relevant? first off you must not know alot of military people (by the way i like how you use the term in quotation marks, as if to infer that we are not in fact people) because if you did you would know that many of us are not in fact like that.

so! as long as we are making blanket statements i too will do so:

all liberals are hippies, hate military personell and also are communists because they lean to the left on the political spectrum. sound about right? oh wait one more thing: they should all be shot.

i am a military "person". i am a veteran who fought in iraq. i shot no civilians, i killed no man, woman or child who was not trying to kill either me, my friends or any other person who was just trying to make a living. if we detained someone and they were questioned and came up clean they were let go and given money or some other form of compensation for interrupting there lives (if property destruction was involved then compensation for that too was made).

i have had to watch my father suffer after returning from Vietnam during the war that went on in that country. you think iraq was bad? SOME comparisons can be made but it is a different war altogether. one thing i can assure you WILL be different:

my father and the men like him sat back and took the abuse Americans piled onto them after they returned. some did act outside the moral code in the American military (My Lai massacre for one) but the overwhelmingly vast majority did not despite fighting an unpopular war thousands of miles from home, returning home and being spit on.

this will be different: i will NOT stand by and let one example of moral bankruptcy give the leftovers from 60s communist wannabe's a second shot at my brothers in arms who served with me and those who continue to serve to this day. i will not let one example reflect on the whole group of servicemen.

People are using the term war zone and some of you are calling this murder.

Now put yourself in the shoes of the pilot at the scene. You are called in to support a group of marines that are being fired upon by a group of 50 to 100 insurgents. Granted you cant really tell what is a combatant therefore the wide spread of possible, "insurgents". The marine group is taking heavy RPG fire and you have been ordered to pacify the area. Basically it means that at the moment, in the combat area, everyone is a combatant. You dodge a shoulder fired missle and start strafing the "insurgents".

Meanwhile some Rutger reporters tried to get some good pictures and got to close.

I feel very bad for the reporter but it is the nature of the beast. There are plenty of acclaimed movies about war reporters that got killed and that survived.

The Day of Living Dangerously and Full Metal Jacket are two good ones. Remember Joker was a combat coorespondent.

So how can we chastise some pilots that did their jobs? I wonder if the pentagon will release the figures of the number of combatants killed compared to the number of, "civilians"?

Everyone please hear me on this. Our armed forces are the most potent in the world. Currently they are being used as policemen. It isnt their job. We need to bring all of our troops home and turn this operation over to the U.N. peacekeeping squad. They have the mandate to ask for international help.

We need our troops home to deal with our southern border imo. Whats this crap about drug cartel assassins?

It disgusts me that people think American citizens ought to know every little detail of every little mission of every little thing that goes on in the world that we're involved in. Talk about a recipe for disaster.

Things happen in war. Soldiers get used to seeing weapons, so sometimes they see them when they aren't there, like in this case. Why don't you go spend months on end in a war zone with people shooting at you all the time and then shoot your mouth off about them 'knowing better'? My brother was in Baghdad when he was in the Army, and guess what? He's killed civilians. They didn't target civilians, but sometimes thing happen.

Apparantly it's bad when '1 million' Iraqi citizens die in the war, but it's okay if their leader kills millions of them. Guess that means we should've left Hitler alone to do his thing too. Not our responsibility, eh? Oh, but wait, that was okay because it didn't take as long as the war(s) in the Middle East have. Americans are so incredibly impatient, gotta have everything yesterday.

If this is actually a true account, then, certainly it is a tragic, uncalled for, horrible incident, and anyone with a heart would condem it; that being said, I have learned to question even what appears to be "real", because I know how devious some can be with trickery. I'd like to believe it is only that, to incriminate the military, but...there is a big question mark. None of us except the ones involved can really know for a certainty if this video is reality.

Hey Bob Randall - and? The "Yellowcake" was still under UN seal, all accounted for, and inspected regularly. For the past decade.

The Pretext for the invasion was most definitely a LIE.

Star - military members have already confirmed the video. It's being shot from an army helicopter. I believe they admitted finding only cameras and film equipment, no weapons. What else needs to be made certain?

Ed Hines - one example? Has your head been stuck in the sand the last decade? Do you have any inkling of the toll this war has taken on Iraqi civilians? Any war where more innocents die than soldiers is unjust.

This is very sad. We need to get out of Iraq ASAP, and do whatever we can to eliminate these types of incidents in the future wars. We forgot about Pat Tillman and need to be reminded that war with Iran, Korea, or Sudan is a last resort. The victor will also suffer and loose something. Hopefully, not their humanity. Those Apache pilots are still hero's for putting themselves in harms way. Poor guys are going to have to live with this for the rest of their lives. So should every one of us Americans. We are just as responsible as the pilots which is why we are sickened when we see this video. We owe the Iraqi people all we can to make their situation better which is why the Iraq and Afghan war is helping bankrupt our economy. Be forever proud to be American, infinitely thankful for the bravery of our men and women in our armed forces, beg the forgiveness of the innocent people caught in the crossfire, accomplish the mission, and get out.

This is war and these things happen. These soldiers were doing their job. What if these soldiers had not fired upon these men and they were terrorists, then what would've happened then. What the men were carrying did look like RPGs or weapons and this is a split second decision. From what I heard on their radio was that our soldiers got the order to shoot. So, for all these people and the media whining about any little thing our soldiers do wrong, then I say GET THE HELL OUT OF AMERICA AND DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT.

In other words, you are saying that our Amerian military are nothing but murderous thugs? That's what YOU are calling them?

In a nutshell? Yes. Taken straight from the no-holds-barred, scorched-earth, burn-pillage-loot playbook of such shining examples of gentlemanhood and honour Philip Sheridan, Benjamin Butler, George Armstrong Custer, David Hunter, William T. Sherman and Ulysses S. Grant.

Animals. Federal thugs and despicable human beings... and role models and inspiration to the imperial armed forces of Amerikhastan.

I hope our "leaders" burn in hell for their malfeasance and the TERROR they have wrought on the rest of the world in the name of spreading democracy.

they are a disgrace... they teach and preach to their people to hate and kill americans.. i feel sorry only for our troops... they are the monsters... and any that are in our country should be kicked out.... and if you don't like our country and what our leaders are doing then get out yourself....

I hope people are not too quick to judge. In a war zone things are different, and mistakes happen. I am very sorry for the families, and I am sorry for the soldiers, who have to deal with it as well. War is so hell.

"Perhaps its time to democratize our democracy and realize that the claim we are a democracy is indeed fallacious."

We don't live in a democracy - we live in a republic. Learn the difference.

What you all fail to remember is GW Bush lied to the US citizens for the reason to wage war on Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction were ever found. So in essence.. GW Bush who was still commander in chief, is the responsable person. I would like to see GW Bush and senior members of our government of that time, brought up on Genocide charges for Iraqi war, against their people.

Their people were rulled by a man who should not rule his people like he did, but if you look at other nations such as N. Korea, Iran.. do we have fear our government officials will lie about their nuclear topic being lied about, so they have a reason to commit genocide ??

You all wonder why the West is hated.. take a look at that video. Think hard.. how would you feel if small town USA was the hot spot of a war declared upon us, by a far superior nation.. and law of the land was the gunships in the skies.

Lets face facts here-the FACT that we're fighting an enemy that refuses to show themselves got these people killed. Our guys don't know who the enemy is until the bombs go off usually.

And at 49-50 seconds of the video, it sure looks to me like a guy kind of spins to his right and holds out an RPG. I of course could be wrong, but check it out.

Deke.

I thought we live in a corporate oligarchy? Considering a corporate lobbyist has more sway than a citizen...

Curious to see how the next election plays out.

Military didn't verify it's authenticity and it came from a place called whistleblower.org. We don't know all of the details surrounding something like this even if it did happen. I believe that something like this should be investigated before it makes it up on front page MSNBC. Tragic things happen all the time in war and it seems like the media is hell bent on making us hate ourselves. A news article like this makes it hard not to be emotional and upset. My guess is that it is the news outlets intent to send an antiwar message, as are a lot of posts in this vine. Be careful getting emotionaly invested in stories like these.

Why was the story buried for three years?

Ask General Electric, co-owner of NBC (80% of it!) and military contractor.

chadly, watch the video again at 49-50 seconds. I swear the guy spins around with an RPG on his shoulder.

And yes, not too far fetched to think this is another MSNBC attempted Bush hit-job.

Hmmmm........group of men in Iraq with items slinged over their shoulders, several with confirmed weapons moving toward an area where American Soldiers are being engaged, hmmmmm why would Apache pilots fire on them?......it is all right there but all you folks see is the evil American Soldiers shooting civilians......starts with the title of story "US shooting civilians on Iraqi street".....as for the pilots words.....They thought they were killing the bad guys so give them a break on the "dead Bastards" are you supposed to feel bad......as far as the kids wounded comments.....I am sure in retrospect the gunner would regret saying that but sometimes to look fearless you say emotionless things......I am sure every man can relate that just ask your wives. Want happened to the kids were not going to change by him crying over it in the middle of a mission. He has to live with it the rest of his life and your emotionless fools if you think that will come easy to him.

Let's all remember Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos..

That was primarily Lyndon Baines Johnson's War---55,000 American US Soldiers dead.

War is War. It's ugly.

msnbc didn't leak the video there mr paranoid, and it's being covered by most major news agencies.

"I thought we live in a corporate oligarchy? Considering a corporate lobbyist has more sway than a citizen..."

Unfortunately true. This is our biggest crisis and the thing we need to change the most.

"That was primarily Lyndon Baines Johnson's War---55,000 American US Soldiers dead."

Another war based on a lie. I wonder how many will die this time?

Deke:

What is the Lie? In his biographies, he enlarged the Vietnam War. No one can deny this is a lie. He was sending Military Troops over there like crazy. I was part of the 60's and know d-----------well, it was his War.. Were you alive during the 60's, the rioting, and protests?

I served in 2007 in Ramadi Iraq as a Combat Medic. For the dear public who has never seen combat, there is no such thing as a limited war. War always has and always will be Total. What this means to the common layman is simple; women and children are often victims. Rather it be directly or indirectly. When I was in Ramadi we had Iraqi Police playing patriot one day and a Taliban Terrorist at night. Seven of my brothers in Arms throats were cut in the middle of the night by Iraqis dressed up in Iraqi Army gear.

People understand this; this is not the 18th century anymore where soldiers of Europe lined up in columns against each other. I mean in '05 the Iraqis were using women, children and mosques as shields. We you on the Op? Did you have the intel of hostiles in the area. So to make these outrageous charges against soldiers who put on the alice pack gear every day in 120 degree heat, then let's see what you would do in this situation?

We live in a world now where on the urban battle field, you can shout, shove and show force. But when you have AK-47s being held by 9 year olds over there, then well a soldier does not have time to be a damn diplomat. The media destroyed our efforts in Vietnam, and they are trying to do the same in Iraq. Okay maybe we should not be there, but guess who is next door, Syria, Iran, Lebannon.

Talk to a vet who has been over there before you make these allegations and try to smear the image of our country. Right or wrong, if you are an American, than start acting like it, volunteer, or like I did re-enlist at the age of 39. Don't talk it, walk it. I guarantee you if most of you had've been in that Helo, and your squad was fired on an hour before, You would have done the same thing. If they are in the way to your objective, than they (the now deceased) were possible hostiles. If not on that mission, than the next day.

Our Soldiers are not taught to be U.N. peace keepers with Blue Helmets directing traffic. In 07 before the surge, we caught hell. I treated 38 Iraqi civilians and children with major wounds. Believe me, we made and are in the progress of making Iraq are better place. And for the photographer, they are briefed in advance where they can go and where they are not permitted to go. So I am sorry for his death and to his family, but we do have rules of engagement. Their will come a day when this media scrunty will possibly show the positive aspects of soldiers in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. We can save ten lives, but if we kill one, then we are barbarians.

Do you want to pay five dollars for a barrel of gas? Do you want Iraq to put nukes in their country? As any vet might say "Freedom is not Free." And we can't use John Locke's tolerance of religion either for foreign policy. This is a platonic fallacy. Which means the video looks great on a video game not to kill civilians, but the reality is, "War is Hell." Look at Sherman's March to the Sea. Or any war? That's why it is called war.

Regardless of the circumstances re. the invasion of Iraq, we are there. So if it makes you feel good to bash our soldiers, try doing that to the terrorist who are blowing up subways in Russia or in Baghdad the other day. Do you think they care if they take out women, children and a photographer. To quote Machiaveli "It is better to be feared than loved" in regards to diplomacy. I mean the only way Truman was able to handle Stalin was to match him blow for blow by airlifts, tanks and action.

1-41 Field Artillery Battalion, 1st BCT, III ID, (ret). Cole Bolchoz; I don't need an Avatar to conceal my sentiments.

Nobody can match my jedi style historian quick jabs of wit. If you post a reply, know what you are talking about within the historical climate of the times!

The lie was the Gulf of Tonkin incident. He ramped up based on a lie. I'm not sure from where "What is the Lie? In his biographies, he enlarged the Vietnam War. No one can deny this is a lie. He was sending Military Troops over there like crazy. I was part of the 60's and know d-----------well, it was his War.. Were you alive during the 60's, the rioting, and protests?" is coming.

Regardless of whether one agrees with the initial military operation in Iraq, it should have been clear quite some time ago our engagement there has lasted far too long. We started out using soldiers as what they are, warriors, but along the way shifted to using them as policemen, social workers and nation builders. It is absurd to train people for war and then expect them to not act with violence when placed in a hostile environment where it is well neigh impossible to distinguish between friend, foe and neutral and when so many things require split-second decision making, as opposed to all us armchair philosophers and know-it-alls who have the luxuries of a safe environment and ample time to rationalize what the perfect person ought to do or refrain from doing.

Moreover, rational analysis of something like this is frail at best, given that war is by definition the apex of irrationality and the epitome of chaos. Pushed to the limits, one must ask why any fool would seek war in the first place but have any rules of engagement if it is war that must occur. Sad as it is, even the killing of civilians in war is not necessarily always contraindicated. Heavy Allied fire-bombing of German civilian populations and the use of nuclear weapons in Japan saved the lives of vast numbers of Allied soldiers and sailors, ended the operation of the death camps and indeed hastened the end of the carnage of WW II.

No caring person desires to see anyone killed in war or otherwise (except perhaps in cases of capital punishment), but one would be reticent to condemn soldiers for being a bit hair-triggered when they are mostly young people in a frightening and highly dangerous place where there is little time for reflection and great difficulty telling who may present a threat and who may not. If one must judge, it is only fair to do so under the circumstances at issue and not later from a place of peaceful repose. In short, I don't like what evidently happened but am slow to berate those involved on site.

Apparently most of you haven't even watched the actual video.

They were clearly misidentified as insurgents because they had what appeared to be weapons slung over their shoulders. That is the only reason why they took them out. This idea that they were out deliberately killing civilians is asinine.

This is a war where the enemy dresses and looks exactly like the civilians- if you have a better plan for identity then by all means speak up- otherwise use your heads and realize that was clearly nothing but a case of misidentification.

The troops are also later seen running with wounded women and children taking them to hospitals- so common sense will tell you that civilians were not targeted here.

Also, if I were a journalist running around a hostile area - I would wear a special shirt with giant letters that says JOURNALIST on the front and back to identify myself. I certainly wouldn't run around dressed like the average insurgent. In the Gulf War we had a symbol that identified you as a friendly.

As I see it, the worst part of this video is that it is clear that some of the worthless bastards got away !

Cole:

Thank you for a most enlightening education of the war in Iraq. Thank you for your service. Only, you, with boots on the ground and the other soldiers who are serving both in Iraq and Afghanistan know what is really happening there.

My neighbor recently served 1 year as a Major Reservist on the combat lines in Afghanistan. Yes, War is War. He had many, many stories to tell us of the horrors that come with war..

It makes me uneasy, when people on this discussion board are flip about what is truly happening in these countries, and why there is a War. They are both naive and do not want to believe war is ugly, including many civilians being killed.

We can not have Peace in this country, until we wipe out all the Terrorist groups which keep emerging in huge numbers all over the world.

How did the US ever get through World War 1 and World War 2---???? We had to win at all costs.

That was primarily Lyndon Baines Johnson's War---55,000 American US Soldiers dead.

Initial involvement was under Eisenhower-a Republican.

What I am curious about is just when EXACTLY did it become US policy to shoot wounded people, combatants or not, when they are crawling on the ground wounded, and when did it become policy to shoot up rescue personnel? This is no more honorable than shooting up a US medic that is helping our guys. Is this what we have devolved into in this war? My family and I are embarrassed to call Americans after seeing, hearing how this was handled.

3 years ago this happened and you are condemning everyone around you, not only is this story a scam to keep the rhetoric going the author didn't even put his name to it. Go figure.

As stated in the story:

"It is worth noting the fact that insurgent groups often video and photograph friendly activity and insurgent attacks against friendly forces for use in training videos and for use as propaganda to exploit or highlight their capabilities," the document concludes.

Its a shame that you people do not know who is even reporting the news to you let alone if it is real, yet you believe it.

As Bobj states below, MSNBC and the NYT are relentless to depict the US as evil in everyway all the while stating the insurgents are freedom fighters.

And Cynthia makes a good point below, we should not censor the news but we should question its validity and source and or purpose of holding onto something for 3 years prior to reporting it.

Armchair quarterbacks until you have served...

I don't see why so many are upset these things happen when your building an Empire.

Metal Guitarist:

What does it matter when the war started. It was under Pres Lyndon Baines Johnson who escalated the War beyond American's belief, to mammoth proportions. For What? There is no arguing that 55,000 or more US Soldiers gave their lives for this usless fight. No Oil there.

Bill Ayres, Obama's wonderful friend will never show remorse for the protesting and bombing he did here in the United States. He was and still is an anti American living in our Country. He is still very proud of his war inside the United States.

My cousins were involved in protesting the war, many of whom fled to Canada to avoid being drafted. Cowards; they paid the price. Vietnam. I know this war all too well. Ask Hanoi Jane.

As we all know, we paid for this war.....our troops were authorized by us, by the people...right? Make all our boys become killers and muders for the crude oil only...come one...1700 billions for the warfare...and cut down our school...health care...come on...don't use our taxex money to lill, but save our own country...no mare killing...Irag does not need us...USA Citizens need help...crazy goverment...

"The pretext of our invasion was a lie." 550 tons of yellow cake was there.

Bob Randall - Yellow cake is partially refined uranium ore. It is about a close to being a nuclear bomb as a sheet of steel is to being an automobile.

While I honestly don't know how to judge the actions of the soldiers seen in this video, the Iraq War is far easier to assess. It was a reckless and stupid endeavor, dishonestly promoted and poorly planned and executed. Far from making us safer, it served as a recruiting poster for terrorists and testing lab for techniques now being used in Russia, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

George W. Bush, they should carve his visage on a huge pile of horse manure and then coat it polyurethane for posterity.

Hey, folks- This is something I know something about. I was a combat photographer in Vietnam , and I can tell you that yes, sometimes photographers get killed. We photogs tend to think that the camera will protect us from danger. It's a known psychological occurrence in the business. I feel badly that the Reuters guys got killed, but that is something that comes with the job; the chance that this might be your last shot. Having a camera in your hands means that you are not carrying a weapon (we had pistols, basically so we could shoot ourselves if we were going to get caught, LOL. ), so it's a whole new outlook on life. Death too, for that matter.

Get used to it- There have been about 80 journalists killed so far in this latest fiasco, so it's nothing new. And there willl be more!

There seems to be some question about the pilots being too trigger happy. They are professionals, and saw what they saw. Considering that they have to get permission to fire from HQ, which to me is REALLY crazy, (imagine fighting WWII like that. NOT.) they are not just blasting away. It's a tough job.

To those of you who are so upset about this mistake, why don't you volunteeer to go over and get there on the ground in the middle of it all, and make SURE the right targets are being hit. Put your mouth where your stupidity is. Show the Taliban you ARE on their side.......

Why do they "fire upon wounded men"? Because the wounded aren't dead yet. DUH.....

For the dear public who has never seen combat, there is no such thing as a limited war.

Certainly not when Uncle Sugar wants it that way. But when he ties our hands (read: Vietnam) then he deliberately sends young men to their deaths for a lie.

Thanks for setting the 'civilians' in the discussion straight and clarifying things. The problem is most will still not "get it."

Most of us get it just fine there, skipper. Take a minute to stop polishing your merit badges and patting yourself on the back for "doing what had to be done" and think about why you follow orders without asking questions.

That doesn't make you better than anyone. It makes you a tool. A tool of a frivolous, petty, morally bankrupt empire.

I thought macnamara was responsible for the gulf of tonkin lie, which caused the escalation?

I never look at this type of video, but I understand the general public can scarcely get enough of it.

Greg in Oceanside -

Unless you've 'been there, done that' all opinions don't have any value, especially it they come from Birkenstock-wearing, Prius-driving, latte-sipping, anti-war, Berkeley-educated, feel-good liberal lemmings.

Funny...I don't see one thing you've listed there that is a criminal act.

As opposed to the killing of innocents.

Confederate Son:

You are on empty. No ideas, no thoughts, no experience.

Hey dork, this is not a "police action" like in previous conflicts... IT IS WAR

Ritdog:

Correct on all points. Good commentary for those who don't believe civilians, journalists, photographers can be in the line of death.

The Terrorist groups favorite "trick" is to use Civilian facilities, hide there among the public, and think they are protected, because no one will bomb them. Nice Terrorists. They are cowards. That is why many young children, women are in the line of fire.

And Obama calls them Extremists. I'd call them murderers of their own people.

They don't care about human life, no ones. Why else would the women Terrorists now get breast implants of bombs. They use up their women, abuse their children and kill their wives.

Why would they care?

This incident may well warrant further investigation, at the very least to make sure that it is as rare an event as we can possibly make it. Fact is innocent people die in war. But the fact is we do everything possible to prevent it against an enemy that not only kill many innocent people through their actions, but also do everything they can to get innocents killed from our actions!! I'll say this again: When we kill innocent people, it's an accident,we review the incident and do everything we can to ensure it never happens again, When the Islamic Jihadists kill innocents it's by design, they review the incident and do everything they can to ensure they kill more innocents next time. 2 BCT 1 AD OIF 05-06 OIF 08-09.

This war is sapping the soul of the American people, it cannot continue like this or we will lose our national pride.Get out now, prepare for a fortress America, that is where the battle is going to take place!

I used to work at camp Pendleton and talked to a returning soldier. He said they killed civilians just because they could get away with it, using a 'curfew' as an excuse.

It isn't widely known, but U.S. soldiers in Vietnam used to wipe out whole villages, including moms kids babies and just because they felt like it.

Like the name says" Give me a break! It's a damn war, and that looked like a rocket propelled grenade launchers to me! All you lib's need to just crawl under your rocks like good little sell outs of this country and the constitution! God i can't wait till november when we can shut all your pie holes and put a stop to the socialist in the white house killing this country!!!

It's amazing all the rationalizations you read in this article. If it were German soldiers in occupied europe who had done this at the end of the war they would have swung from the end of a rope...convicted by U.S. prosecutors and the rope supplied by the us too probably.

30 years of so-called conservative (I think many of them are just old fashioned fascists) dominance in our society and politics has eroded our humanity a great deal.

I've seen numerous footage of airstrikes(gelicopter and C-130gunship) with audio, from attacks on targets in Iraq/Afghanistan.

In many cases, the operators were joking around and acting like they just got the high score on a video game. If you can't be somber and serious while destroying the lives of possible "bad guys", but make light of the situation, then there is something wrong with you.

War is hell, yes. Unfortunately, Iraqis(Saddam as well) never did anything to the US, to justify us going to war with them.

After watching the video on wikileaks I'm confused as to why anyone has a problem with what happened. Looks to me like the photographer was responsible for all the deaths, not the pilots. The guy is crouching down and peeking around a corner, then points what sure looks like a weapon to me at the Apache. To me, this guy basically put on deer antlers and went running around the forest on opening day of hunting season. Of course it's the hunter that gets blamed though.

Furthermore, assuming this story is even true, it isn't as if the pilots knew any of what is now coming out about it. If you knew absolutely nothing about the video other than just what you see there would be no reason to doubt the pilots did what they should have. Someone obviously pointing something in a furtive manner at the Apache. It takes an explanation of what could only have been known after the fact to understand the tragedy of what happened.

This isn't to say I'm happy this tragedy happened. I'm not. Especially what happened to the children, but it isn't as if the pilots knew they were in the vehicle. Anyway, if you go to a war zone you'd better know you can get killed. And it was stupid to bring the children. I mean, think about it. Who with an ounce of sense is going to bring their children into an area where still circling Apache's that have just killed a bunch of people?

I see no reason to charge these pilots with anything other than doing what they were supposed to do.

correction: helicopter

Are you all questioning what happened. Did any of you watch the video? He had sights on what looked to be a weapon, in fact 2 weapons. They ID'd the weapons, incorrectly - but hell, that worked out just fine.

Wow, you all believe this attack on our good soldiers, who used discretion and qualified what they believed to be an enemy threat.

This was a HOT ZONE, and they had what looked like weapons. They honestly thought they saw RPG's.

All war is criminal.

Goto war. THEN criticize the actions of those men.

rock0223 I call bull$h*t on your claim of talking to a "returning Soldier" at Camp Pendleton. Camp Pendleton doesn't have Soldiers,it has U.S. Marines and I seriously doubt a Marine would talk to you about killing at all,much less like it was a good thing. I know many veterans,many combat vets from WWII to OIF and OEF and none have ever talked much about killing and we're Vets!! I'll talk more about my service with them than just about any civilian, but there's no celebration of killing. Killing is a bad thing and just because there's chatter during combat operations doesn't mean that same chatter will go on once a Soldier (or Marine) is home (that goes for your comments too anti-American Lobot)!

They pointed a RPG at them..... They where all armed and the airship was taking small arms fire... But you lefties want OUR boys just take it??????!

We bombed the hell out of Bagdad and Fallujah and did much worse than shown on this despicable war crime and yet it just looked like firecrackers on the 4th of July. We have had absent war reporting for 9 years. Innocent civilians have died and we have made america less safe for generations by enraging the Iraqui and Afghan population against our country.

Until americans get fed up with the pentagon and the war profiteers these crimes will go on. Last week McCrystal admitted that a lot of innocent Afghans have been killed in the occupation.

What will it take and when will americans say NO MORE WAR?

jan-123456789:

Boo Fricking Hoo.

The one I learned a long long time ago was simple, and it goes like this.

KILL EM ALL, LET GOD SORT EM OUT.

Take a trip to lower Manhattan, and check out the new skyline we've had since 9-11 and ask the question, "would you rather fight em here amongst our neighborhoods, or over there amongst theirs"? And while your at it, why don't you send an e-mail to the winkin blinkin nob gobbler Julian Assange from Wikileaks and ask if they have any video of the things that the insurgents are doing almost every day? Or do they, like you; want to totally ignore and refuse to accept any of that reality of what they are doing to the U.S. service men and women AND the local Iraqis? Would you suggest that the helicopter pilots land in the street and ask permission to shoot at people? Do you realise that we do things like this on accident, while they do things like this on purpose? I would rather fight that over there , and quite honestly I could care less about some morons from Reuters that are walking around a known "hot zone" with items slung on there shoulders that from a distance look like . . . . . . . . something with a sling on their shoulders. You know, like assault rifles and RPG's. The world is a better place without people that stupid.

This is "WAR" ... it's not pretty, civilians die.... Unless you've ever been to a war-zone.. you can't begin to imagine what these soldiers go through. Enough of this BS about a high-tech war.... people die, sometimes innocent people.. but that's just "collateral damage." Its time we stop handicapping our troops and let them kill these SOB's.

My first thought seeing those cameras was GUNS.

The video runs smooth until the actual moment the incident occurs, then gets choppy (slow motion) with writing on the screen, both making it very difficult to decipher what exactly is going on. I take the "reporter's" word for what is written on the screen but, again, it is very hard to see all the details myself.

Assuming the report is accurate, I see no INTENTIONAL fault for America here. Bad situation for sure, but not INTENTIONALLY killing civilians. This is NOT a video of US forces mowing down a group of women/children that are playing in the streets and washing clothes. There is DEFINATELY reasonable doubt from the helicopter's view that the cameras WERE guns and an attack on US was about to take place. They did what they thought was RIGHT. KILL ARMED MILITANTS.

As said above over and over, was is hell. Spit happens...

My personal condolences to their families.

WHY we are there is irrelevant in this article. Only a moron would turn this story into another chance to bitch about the very country that allows them to sleep peacefully at night and have the RIGHT to say such things publicly.

This story is about a tragic accident.

Accidents and accidental deaths are a part of combat. The real questions arise on how a situation is handled.

Like a certain poster on this thread loves to wail-away at the Obama Administration for "charging Navy SEALs" (even though he can't even get the 'SEALs' part correct and doesn't realize it's the NAVY making the charges) for hitting a terrorist. The appearance of a cover-up or an open and true investigation. That's what is being done in that situation, with the SEALs properly requesting a Court Martial to have their day in court and to be open and truthful about their actions. No cover-up for them. That's the choice here.

They've confirmed the video is authentic. Find out what happened and when. Investigate and determine if there is a reasonable way to try to prevent this error from happening again. Be fair... to ALL sides involved. And remember, it is combat. Unfortunate accidents and deaths do happen.

It's nation-building, right? Isn't that what our distinguished ex-President GWB called it?

Why America is hated!

You lay with dogs you get fleas. America is becoming just like Israel. Israel does this same crap to the Palestinians. America suffers from the Stockholm Syndrome and now emulates it's oppressor (Israel). Outlaw all lobby groups in Washington and put term limits on all politicians that way real Military Generals will take control of the Military and not this political corporate machine now in control that does not value human life..

If you were not there then you don't know what happened. I have read a lot of ugly comments from both sides of this issue and I am quite disappointed with the assumptions that people have drawn from this incident.

War is hell. Did you expect less?

If you read the verbal exchange, the pilot says atleast 3 or 4 times that he's going to engage and the return is "roger that". With the optics those Apaches have, it looks like you can reach out and touch the people. In reality, they could have been 2-3 miles away. At no time do you see the people look up, wave, or feel threatened in anyway. It's sad, tragic, but it's what happens in wars. In WWII, Korea, Vietnam, maybe Kuwait, 10's of thousands of innocent civilians were killed. Maybe, hundreds of thousands? I've seen videos similiar to this before. Same thing. They shoot until nothing is left moving. How many of our guys get killed by "friendly" fire. It happens. The answer is "Stop the wars".

It is a tragic accident and we shouldn't ever have gone to Iraq in the first place and we shouldn't ever have tried to stop Vietnam's quest for independence. As I said during the last election, John McCain was the only candidate to participate in a war of national liberation; unfortunately he fought on the wrong side.

War is hell. Did you expect less?

Not from the progeny of Lincoln's thugs.

And, yes. For all the slow kids in the back - it's still about "that".

One other thing, we dropped the Atomic bomb on the Japanese twice and killed 100,000 plus both times----men, women, and children. Japan payed dearly for Pearl Harbor. We bombed Germany into oblivion also----men, women , and children. It's called WAR.

Stan W. When was WAR declared for Iraq? And by whom was it declared?

What is the goal of this 'WAR'?

It's not war, it's an occupation and the 'soldiers' in this video don't see those people as human, just cattle they can slaughter.

They looked for an excuse to murder someone from a safe distance and pulled the trigger.

Disgraceful cowards.

I'm sorry, but we didn't see the Vietnamese as human either. I agree. Wars serve no functional purpose and are an absolute waste of humanity. As for war or not, I don't figure our dead GI's know that. If you were ever in the military, you would understand that if my gun shoots further than yours----you're going to lose. Basic military tactics.

Jamsie, why are you so adamant about knowing what goes on in a war zone, yet not about what's going on behind closed doors in our own government? Those that have never been in an actual war know nothing about what goes on, and this goes on all the time in a real war zone. They should not be the ones who demand to know what's going on.

The picture with this article doesn't show enough information to confirm what the article says is happening.

To assume the article is telling the truth is simply irresponsible as there are so many hate groups associated with news agencies that give out false information to make this country look bad.

So easy for people to sit back and, without understanding what it means to be in a war, what is happening in the video. And what is equally reprehensible is that so many people enjoy the spoils of war (American revolution) yet would be equally harsh toward our forefathers standing up to England. As my sons' ps government school teacher had the audacity to call the founders of this country as terrorists. With an attitude like that and the embracing of socialism today by some, its no wonder we are having so many problems today.

Shame, shame on those that are speaking ill of our US armed forces. Hypocrites that enjoy what this country provides yet condemn what keeps them safer than almost anywhere else in the world.

To everyone who felt compelled to state, "THIS IS WAR!" -

Yes, we know that.

That's why so many of us are against it.

It's called principles.

FoundersFan:

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

It's all a matter of perspective.

There are maybe a handful of people on this forum that have actually been to war. Myself being one of them, and let me tell you... a direct order is a direct order. You don't get to choose who, what, or when you want to kill something...sometimes you’re told to do it. Last thing I need is a court martial or to listen to some conservative ‘bitch’ because friendlies were killed. If you’ve ever fought in a war you’d understand things like this happen and people die…even innocent people. The day I stop following orders in the line of duty is the day this country crumbles to the ground. I don’t agree with the happenings in the video but I can tell you this is hardly anything compared to what I’ve seen. I was part of the 2^nd tank battalion and I remember my first year in Bagdad… in the middle of the night we would sit 3 M1A2 Abrams in the streets flip on the thermal and buzz anything that moved. There is no telling how many innocent people died. So…Mr. Conservative how about you do the time in the brig and I won’t pull the trigger. If you don’t like war don’t watch it…

"shows the debasement and moral corruption of soldiers as a result of war. It seems like they are playing video games with people's lives." Truer words were never spoken.

Confederate Son - Why should anyone feel bad about what happens to people who were willing to kill to preserve a way of life based on slavery? Regardless of how many fig leafs (States rights claims, etc.) white Southerners want to put on it - that's what the civil war was about.

Cooper-

When you say it is better to fight "them" over there rather than here. Here's a fact. Not ONE 9/11 terrorist held an Iraqi passport. The pretext for the war was WMD's. Al qaeda didn't exist in Iraq until recently.

Regardless of whether one saw a gun or camera, that's debatable. I have some interesting questions to posit from what I saw:

1) I see about 3 groups mingling independant of each other, acting casually in what is apparently a "hot spot".

2) Some people have claimed there was a big engagement prior to the Apache shooting. Where in the video do u get that information?

3) If the helicopter was hovering so close, wouldn't these insurgents run for cover, instead they don't even look up.

4)You can CLEARLY see children in the van as the two men were carrying the wounded guy. I have often heard that "they were there to pick up the dead guys weapons to keep fighting". Let's use some deductive logic here: So there goal was, while under fire, to PRETEND to save the wounded guy, sneek out the side door, grab his "weapon" and start shooting? That sounds like an awesome strategy!

5) How can anyone defend someone of the reprehensible statements made on the radio chatter? How?

6)"This is war, @!$%# happens" - We can all respect soldiers for bravery, but maybe this is a wakeup call as to why America SHOULD NOT be in a SOVERIEGN country!

How would u feel if Iraqi helicopters and soldiers were infiltrating your town day and night??

Why should anyone feel bad about what happens to people who were willing to kill to preserve a way of life based on slavery? Regardless of how many fig leafs (States rights claims, etc.) white Southerners want to put on it - that's what the civil war was about.

Wrong, but thanks for playing. Uncle Sugar will be glad that your time enrolled at his federal indoctrination centers (read: public skrewls) produced yet another obedient yankee drone.

How ignorant can someone be, to just chant "It's war!" or "we need to kill all those SOBs".

You have to be pretty bloodthirsty and sick in the head to want Iraqis to die, because you are still pissed about 9/11.

Iraqi's AREN'T responsible for 9/11. The Bush/Cheney Admin. did their best to try and link Saddam to 9/11, and they failed.

The ones who actually carried out the 9/11 attacks(mostly Saudis), died in the attack.

The head honcho(who the Bush/Cheney Admin promised to capture or kill) is still at large.

We had more justification to invade Saudi Arabia, than invading Iraq. The Saudis are more strict and harsher on women than Iraqis have ever been. Sharia rule of law is much more prevalent there. You can bet that lots of Saudi money has been used to finance terrorist and insurgent acts.

There would be no "WAR" in Iraq, if we wouldn't have invaded. This is war of OUR government's making. I don't blame our troops that are doing what they were trained to do, but I criticize any who act trigger happy.

N.Korea had more powerful WMDs(so did other dictator ran oppressed countries), yet we didn't go rushing off to topple those countries and "save" their people.

Stop using the "it's war" excuse, when there really is no excuse for our making war on Iraqis.

To ivanho75: Are you blind?

1) Those 3 groups of people became one larger group. They were all together. They were carrying AKs and an RPG. I would call that an insurgent "hot spot"!

2) You don't get that info from the video. That's why we don't have the whole picture just what the Wikileaks.org site wanted you to see!

3) The helicopter was not hovering so close. It was flying a circle pattern very high above the ground. What you saw was the gunners camera which has zoom capability! The insurgents were unaware a helo was watching them.

4) You can CLEARLY see the children in the van AFTER Wikileaks.org zoomed in and enlarged the picture! That's not what the gunner and/or pilot saw necesserily! And who the hell brings their kids into a battle zone?!!!

5) You do a tour or two in Iraq and then see what kind of lingo you develop! Oh that's right, you only see the battle on your computer screen sitting in your desk chair. hmmm

6) America should do what's in America's best interest. Oil, oil, oil.

7) Here's an extra one for you. Those photographers were not wearing any type of identification on their clothes to id them as journalists or news. A camera with a long zoom strapped over your shoulder could very easily be mistaken as a rifle from that altitude, especially if the group you're hanging with has AK-47s.

And finally, I wouldn't like it one bit if Iraqi helicopters and soldiers were in my town. That's why I volunteered, served, pay taxes, and support the badest, best military in the world!!!

rhodes:

1. I guess when armed US citizens are gathering at armed rallys, it can be called "potential insurgent hot spots", yes? That would give the law enforcement reason to detain or fire on them, if we go by your logic.

2. the video was released by sources who had access to it. Are you saying that the video has been edited by news agencies using CGI?

3. If the "insurgents" were "unaware the helo was watching them", then the helo crew wasn't in immediate danger and had ample time to figure out what was taking place on the ground.

4. Another poster in here who trained gunners and pilots operating helo gunships, has said that the operators see MORE clearly than the grainy video footage images. They have excellent zoom on their gunship cameras/scopes.

5. lingo isn't the problem. The problem is when a person who just killed other people, is excited and shows joy in the act, like a kid getting a high score on a video game.

6.I'm sure Hitler, Stalin and Mao said the same thing to justify their actions. The old "were just doing what's best for our country and people" excuse. How about we start putting other technologies to use, instead of shouting "oil oil oil".

7. I agree with you on this one. I'd go a step further and require all journalists and civilian contractors to wear a homing beacon/identifying marker on their person.

So you are saying you joined and fought in the military because you were afraid of Iraqi soldiers and helos invading your town?

Our military isn't supposed to be about being the "baddest". We should be trying to be the most righteous, and only killing those who deserve it.

Iraqi civilians have just as much right to defend themselves and carry weapons, as Americans have. If they are insurgents attacking others, then take them out. The helo wasn't being fired on.

American Lobo:

1) If I was hanging out in a section of town that police officers were being shot at, and killed numerous times by armed men and had my gun out beside me, who's fault would it be if I got shot? Would you, as a law abiding citizen expect the police to detain me and arrest me? What if I resisted? Mind you I'm not talking about an NRA rally.

2) I'm saying the video was edited by Wikileaks.org, unless the military was adding the biased text and tags!

3) The helo was not in immediate danger. The helos were there in a supporting role. Their mission was to support the ground troops, id and neutralize potential threats to US forces in the area. Guess what? There were US troops in Humvees and Strikers in the area! They got there 8min later. They would have been there faster if they knew the area better. That's how close they came to being hit by insurgents.

4) And you didn't see the AKs and what looked like an RPG in the corner on that grainy picture? I did, and my vision has to be about the same as your...

5) Well... we train to our military to kill with little emotion. If you got trained to kill and then asked to reflect on the scope of your actions what kind of soldier would you be? Please, ask yourself. My guess? I would be a dead soldier, because while I was thinking if I should kill that person he would have already pulled the trigger. Yes, he has joy, he just saved his buddy's life on the ground!

6) Hey, I didn't say it's right, just the reason we're down there. I would love to see life without petrolium products!

7) Well, how can I argue when you agree with me! lol

Yes, not Iraqis but anyone who decided America is weak and for the taking. In this world my friend the weak perish and the strong survive.

Our military IS supposed to be the badest, meanest killing machine. That's why they carry the biggest guns! You want righteous and killing only those who deserve it? then look for God. Maybe if we lived in a black and white world my friend your wish could come true.

That righteous and just killing bit reminded me of the Crusades! hmmmm

What wikileaks and the media isn't telling you is that those AH64's were supporting a unit on the ground that was pinned down by that group. What you see is an edited version of the whole situation.

Too many times I've seen partial stories and the mentally deficient make comments about these stories without knowing the whole story. I REFUSE to have you sit in your lazy boy and spout off at the mouth about @!$%# you know nothing about while I'm out here getting shot at and blown up.

This is sad, we are sitting back here doing Monday Quarterback... The air support does not have a chance to do double takes. They already have the go ahead to take to out suspects. It was simply to find a reason. When there are weapons present, then the justification is there.

I completely understand the troops action... I had to do multiple takes to identify those cameras and children. Unfortunately soldiers do not have that luxury. One of my friend, mentioned that under his command, his groups suffered 7 casulty, because he wanted to confirm enemy... He said, he will never forgive himself, allowing his troops getting hurt and killed...

It is SICK, because we are brought to be aware of the situation and the innocent people involved (much like friendly fire). However it is disgusting that the commanders and the fact finding people covered up the incident! We as people need to understand the difference. This is much like Tillman case, but with different people involved.

Jamsie: I was against going into Iraq. As to the question "where was I in the past 7 years?" I was here during the whole Bush/Cheney administration. As far as knowledge goes, one can't seek it if it is buried or hidden now can one? I still haven't gotten sufficient answers to my queries in letters addressed to representatives in Congress and the Media over many subjects. Spear me the condescending rhetoric.

I am a wife of a military member of 22 years. Currently active duty. Whenever I see many who believe they have firsthand knowledge or insight of accountability on situations like these, wow, DO NOT JUDGE or act upon by saying, doing or whatever else based upon self proclaimed wisdom. You are adding more wrong to the already wrong that's been put upon our guys ( soldiers) in wartime. Think about that for as long as this war is continuing. That is one angle no one even considers as far as holding ourselves accountable for our soldiers in combat. Can you even try to imagine the accountability they have resting on their heads, even when their heads hit the pillow at night he/she knows that everything is riding on him/her; the whole world's issues. You have no idea. We are asking too much of our soldiers yet they ask nothing in return and they receive the worse in return actually. They are treated in the most inhumane, uncivilized manner by our enemies, shot at without conscience, killed and mocked in the streets of enemy land. 100% less than civil than if our enemies were walking around in our homeland. Our soldier's lives are dispensable in so many ways, and you're talking about being civil? So when you do ask our soldiers one day to be civil, sorry but it was stolen from them inside and out. Remember this even more, every last drop of our soldiers' honor to serve was/is given over for you and for me and for the world that we live in, so that we will live in a civil world. Try giving back some civil support and maybe our soldiers will have another drop of civility to pass around again. We need to feed our soldiers what they need the most in order to produce acceptable results, they are not machines as many forget. We need to love them and care for them and support them. It will induce the same within for others. Yet, they run dry out there in the fields because they hear the cries and pleas from the people of our own country of America, yet they know these cries and pleading is in weighance for the enemy and their well being instead. You are not keeping the balance, you and many are causing the imbalance weighing for the enemy rather than our own soldiers. You have no idea how much more wrong you are adding to the wrong that has already been put upon our soldiers or adding more wrong to the already wrong that has made many of our soldiers the way that they are. You have no ground to stand upon to even speak about accountability.

Watching a clip like this (and reading some of the reponses on this board) really brings home me how accurate a portrayal the Beavis and Butthead cartoons are in depicting many american's psyche (mental state).

Can't you just hear B & B up in there in that helicopter? "Heheheh...Oh boy! can I shoot'em, can I shoot'm?!? Comon, let me shoot'm, heheheh....So what if he's wounded, so what if there's kids there, they shouldn't have brought'm, Heheheh...".

Twisted adolescents who never grew up.

Luckily for Mike Judge most americans are too dumb to realize what a savage and ugly reflection of themselves he is presenting.

Your portrayal of our soldiers is unfair. They are with few exceptions well-trained young people just trying to do a very difficult job.

They did not make this stupid war but they get blamed for everything.

and oddly, those who blame our soldiers more often or not are the same ones always asking for more handouts. They don't DEFEND the country, they just ask for more FROM it.

collateral damage for foreign oil and American interest.

Randal,

You're very naive. What exactly are "our soldiers" defending us from? Saddam had no WMD and had never done anything to the U.S. As a matter of fact we were big buddies with Saddam during the 1980s and gave him most of whatever weapons he still had.

We invaded Iraq illegally and trashed a lot of the country during the invasion but (surprise surprise) not the oil ministry or the oil wells. As soon as we got into Iraq we "secured" the oil wells and the anything that had to do with the oil.

American corporations had their eyes on Iraqi oil for a long time.

Here's someone who would know about why we invade countries.

Major General Smedley Butler (USMC) fought in WWI, Haiti, Nicaruaga, Mexico and Cuba in the early part of the 1900's. He recieved the Congressional Medal of Honour twice as well as many other decorations. Here is a speech he gave to the American Legion convention in 1933:
Smedley Butler on Interventionism

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Major Butler said it well. Sadly, though, nothing has changed in our SOP since he said it.

My favorite part:

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

Thanks for posting.

You need to watch the entire video dip@!$%# and not buy into the slanted media spin on it. Let's face it.. ethics in journalism has been dead for decades.

These morons had weapons in a warzone. Other morons stood next to said morons in clear view of an Apache gunship. Said morons aimed weapons at Apache gunship.. Said morons on now dead.. That is how war works.

QQ more.

bls-744646:

That DEFINITELY was George Bush's voice stating "we got the bastards!!!"

Does this jerk have videos of the Taliban blowing up thmeselves to kill thousands of innocent civilians and the "Teen-aged US soldiers who treat this war as a video-game".

Again: Congratulations to MSNBC and the NY Times as they continue to do everything they can to depict the US as an agressor, all the while telling the world that the Taliban and Al'Quida as "freedom fighters and heros in a struggle against US implerialism".

bobj-301264

No, but that was Bush saying 'Mission Accomplished'. We WERE the aggressors, we invaded Iraq, they didn't come over here. Using the Taliban or Al Quida as an excuse doesn't fly, there were no terrorist bases in Iraq or WMD, NBC and other offensive weapons. Bush used false intelligence to convince not only our Congress and the American people, but many in the international community, causing nothing but anger and heartache here and rifts in our relationships overseas. WE lied, we invaded, we made mistakes in the field and innocent people died, those are facts that shouldn't be ignored or whitewashed. The Taliban and Al Quida are hiding and training in countries of our Allies, like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, among others. I haven't seen one article or video on MSNBC or in the NY Times protraying the Taliban or Al Quida as "freedom fighters and heros in a struggle against US implerialism", that comment was just really odd. What news organizations are doing is their jobs, reporting the news whether its good or bad for the US. We must never be a country that censors news, or hides the truth of our mistakes, no good will ever come from that and its just not who we are.

Cynthia-1233995

"We WERE the aggressors"

Actually, Iraqis under Saddam were the aggressors and Bush senior should have finished the job when he had a chance. Iraq got a cease fire with terms that they did not live up to and got what was coming to them.

As for Bush invading Iraq----Iraq was not "invaded", per se; Saddam invited us when he began ranting about his WMDs immediately after 9/11, and how he was prepared to use them. That, not only, wasn't nice, but was the worse thing he could have done to a country which had just been attacked and was still in shock, not knowing what to expect next, so, we accepted his invitation to check things out, and, although, no WMDs were found, doesn't mean they were not there, and taken to a place of hiding before our military arrived. There was an awful lot of suspicious activity going on as was recorded by our satellites.

Watched the video. Grievous error in judgement is the kindest way to describe it. In saying that, this shouldn't detract from the main issue; that the invasion of Iraq was a major mistake.

At the same time, this video is brutal - and I can't for the life of me see these 'weapons' that the soldiers claim to have seen (referring to the part in the video where a soldier claims that the civilians are armed with AK47s and RPGs). It does appear to be a glaring example of unprofessionalism on display. Before someone verbally annihilates me for this comment, could someone with military experience/knowledge confirm if they were armed? I will admit that I have no military experience and therefore I could very well be wrong.

What is even more disturbing is the lengths that were gone to to cover up the entire incident.

Bush invaded Iraq because Saddam threatened his daddy and of course the oil.

Cynthia-1233995

bobj-301264

No, but that was Bush saying 'Mission Accomplished'. We WERE the aggressors, we invaded Iraq, they didn't come over here. Using the Taliban or Al Quida as an excuse doesn't fly, there were no terrorist bases in Iraq or WMD, NBC and other offensive weapons. Bush used false intelligence to convince not only our Congress and the American people, but many in the international community, causing nothing but anger and heartache here and rifts in our relationships overseas. WE lied, we invaded, we made mistakes in the field and innocent people died, those are facts that shouldn't be ignored or whitewashed. The Taliban and Al Quida are hiding and training in countries of our Allies, like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, among others. I haven't seen one article or video on MSNBC or in the NY Times protraying the Taliban or Al Quida as "freedom fighters and heros in a struggle against US implerialism", that comment was just really odd. What news organizations are doing is their jobs, reporting the news whether its good or bad for the US. We must never be a country that censors news, or hides the truth of our mistakes, no good will ever come from that and its just not who we are."

too bad most of the people who we are fighting in iraq ARE NOT IRAQIS. of course in order to know this one would have to have been over to iraq. however joining the military for any other purpose besides self-interest is probably beyond many americans.

according to the former G-1 of the U.S.Army: less than 1% of americans serve in the military. 7 out of 10 americans do NOT actually qualify to even begin the basic steps of joining the military due to medical, moral (trouble with the law), intellectual or some combination of those. this means that even if they wanted to join they would'nt be permitted to join.

think on those stats.

Saddam LIED ABOUT HIS WMDS so he could be seen as a powerful man. Check this CBS story out. Be careful though if you're a Bush-hating liberal-this story will not echo MSNBC.

Saddam had it comming and he brought his own demise upon himself. He thought Bush was bluffing-(Clint Easwood voice) he thought wrong....

Cyntha, MotorcycleEmptiness, Ed, very well said. Thank you.

And MotorcycleEmptiness, to answer your question, here is what someone else with military experience posted:

http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news/2010/04/05/4119000-us-pilot-seen-firing-on-people-in-iraq?commentId=13409528#c13409528

you know, i thought liberals believed in human rights, was i wrong!

Brent-320354

Saddam LIED ABOUT HIS WMDS so he could be seen as a powerful man.

DUH! You think? Yeah, as a way to discourage any of his neighbors (think Iran here) from invading his country. We had intelligence that proved he was lying, before Dumbya and Dicky-Boy invaded. But since he had decided to invade Iraq in March of 2001, he just had the intelligence manipulated into what he wanted it to say. Yes... March of 2001. That's when he started looking for a way to justify his actions.

Besides, I thought the Cons talking points was still that "Iraq hid their WMDs in Syria!" Now its "He Lied!"? Well, Bush is on his sixth reason for the invasion. I guess they can change that too.

In a sicko country in a sicko world, let's not forget to play fair. :-)

Scuba, if we had the "intel" prior to the war, why was the UN inspection team miffed at Saddam? Why did Clinton and every other prominent Democrat run around condemning Saddam because of his WMDs?

You bring the blather, I'll keep bringing the evidence.

Brent-320354

Maybe you should read the 9/11 Commission Report.

I have. There was no accusation of Bush lying about anything. And I'm not sure what you're getting at. Here is the Executive Summary. Here is the full text.

We'd all be better off if we quit with the partisan fairy tales and approached situations with reality in mind instead of "gotcha".

In summary: Bush didn't start the wars, Saddam and Bin Laden did. And I support Obama continuing the fight, including the use of the Patriot Act.

Brent-320354

In summary: Bush didn't start the wars, Saddam and Bin Laden did.

Aerosmith from 1973... Oak Ridge Boys from 1979... Dream On. Or in this case, maybe Read On. I downloaded it the first day it was available and read it over the next two weeks.

Bush retaliated against a first strike from Bin Laden in a legitimate and justified war. Bush Started the illegal Iraq war himself. Here's a hint: When someone is on their sixth reason for doing something, they're lying every step of the way, and they were wrong.

My bumper stickers from 2003?

1st:
Support our troops in Afghanistan. They are in a noble fight.

2nd:
Support our troops in Iraq. Impeach the idiot that sent them there.

Illegal war? That's where you fall back in to the left wing fairy tales again. The US Congress approved the war in Iraq:

• House
• Senate

Your point that the war was illegal is another failure.

Both houses of Congress approved Bush's use of force against Iraq.

Here's a hint-learn the difference between the truth and bull@!$%# propaganda.

Congress approved allowing the WH to use the option to go into Iraq and strike, based on false evidence that was fluffed up to seem more credible.

They never approved a long drawn out war with the Iraqi people. You can argue all you want the "war" isn't illegal. It's inarguably unjustified. period

you can't argue that Bush/Cheney weren't talking about removing Saddam, long before the WMD issues ever came up. Saddam didn't want to play by their rules anymore, so they wanted to punish him.

How many years ago did Saddam gas the Kurds? 20 years? 25 years?

Do you think our government didn't know about it then? why did we wait so long to topple the "evil dictator"? Maybe because they hoped they could still use Saddam.

Helping the Iraqi people and fighting terrorism, my *ss. The invasion was a power play for corporate interests and $$, nothing more.

It's highly suspect that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, yet Bush/Cheney didn't even try to investigate into possible Saudi financial backing of terrorism. They didn't want to piss off one of the major suppliers of oil(and $$ for their cronies) to the US.

Cyber-yelling isn't going to sway me Lobo.

Read this and get back to me. You sound like the spokesman for the truthers.

It's kind of funny how you equate me using bold writing so that my post is easier to see, as "cyber yelling".

Why are you deflecting from the fact that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis? Or the fact that there wasn't much inquiry into it by the WH or 9/11 commission.

When you can successfully refute anything in my post, then maybe you'll get taken seriously. I'm not trying to sway you. I can see your ignorant mind is already made up. I'm just posting a counter argument, so others in here can see your opinionated posts for what they are. Just an overblown opinion you like to spout.

Is that easier on your eyes(no bold post)?

Exactly!! This kind of thing has happened in every war. It's a WAR.

Especially in a war such as this, in which soldiers never know who the enemy is: it could be a man, a woman or a child. I'd like to see the people who are criticizing our soldiers be put in that position and see how they would react.

My favorite quote about war is from a confederate general (it might have been JEB Stuart, I can't remember). It pretty much sums it up.

He said "War means fighting and fighting means killing."

keep up the good work boys, kill them damn reporters and you'll get less court martials.

The less witnesses the better!!!!

Tina, I guess they would just stand there and be killed, they have not a clue.

In Nam, you would fight beside south vietmanese soldires (supposidly) during the day.

At night you would fight against some of them!

This is really unfortunate that America once again is fed with half a story every once in a while, and people here are defending that '@!$%# happens in war' or 'these people seemed to be a genuine target'. I see that the bigger problem with America in general is that we have no clue about rest of the world. Our politicians have instilled so much of false pride that we are at a dangerous junction of arrogance and ignorance.

These and similar incidents are more regularly covered by many foreign media, including European press. Here is a recent one from Afghanistan.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7087637.ece

US special forces soldiers dug bullets out of their victims’ bodies in the bloody aftermath of a botched night raid, then washed the wounds with alcohol before lying to their superiors about what happened...Two pregnant women, a teenage girl, a police officer and his brother were shot on February 12 when US and Afghan special forces stormed their home in Khataba village, outside Gardez in eastern Afghanistan. The precise composition of the force has never been made public.

And here is when 2 British soldiers were caught openly firing on Iraqi civilians wearing Arab dress, only to be rescued by storming British Army bulldozing the Basra prison.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=972

How can anyone defend these wars knowing what is going on. These wars are not about morals, freedom, democracy, religion or any BS our politicians have told us. The fact is that the global banking system is the biggest stakeholder in these wars. Large corporations and contractors are the only ones gaining from these wars. Governments, armies, militias, diplomats, locals tribes, local governments and media are all part of it, but they are mostly played by powerful banking world. There are many reports that any given side in this war is playing a double game siding and funding the other side so we can be engaged in this for a long time. There is no good side remaining in these wars as it is not about good vs. evil anymore.

I hope America wakes up soon before its too late. We are already close to being a 3rd world country! Otherwise just be ready to hear excuses to attack Iran.

You make very good points. I don't think anyone with any sense is defending these wars.

What I think people are saying is quit putting all the blame on the young men and women in our military just trying to do a very difficult job.

Blame the government and the military bureaucracy but not the soldiers.

Tina-293371: Not sure if you were responding to my post. But here is the deal. As I mentioned in my post, govenrments, armies, regional governments, local tribes, factions, militias, etc. etc. are obvious players, they are not the real decision makers on when to start or stop a war. It is global banking system and some larger corporations, and they are the only ones to benefit. People on all sides suffer.

If you look at today's public in the US, most have not experienced this kind of economic hardship that we are experiencing now. Who in the right frame of mind would engage in long wars? And the fact is that there are 2 obvious long wars, and few covert wars that US is currently engaged in.

In all seriousness, if anyone had considered what was good for American public, we would not even be in these wars, let along wars started on lies. Iraq is a prime example when we were told about 9-11 hijackers connected to Iraqi embassies in Europe, then Saddam planning attacks on US soil, then Saddam having WMDs, and then Saddam using WMDs on its own people, and then etc. etc.

Coming back to 'no one is defending the wars'comment first - What have we done to stop these wars? The fact that US keeps getting into more and more wars (and mind you Iran war is going to be a 'Christmas gift' soon) shows that either American people do not care enough OR we have our priorities totally messed up OR We The People have become absolutely numb and powerless. We are fooled very easily by our politicians and elect the same 2 parties over and over despite their horrible track record.

Second is 'no one should blame the soldiers' comment - As I mentioned that armies or soldeirs are merely part of it and not big stakeholders. I am not blaming soldiers directly, all have an extremely tough job on a daily basis, and big majority of them keep the best morals and principles. But I have given enough links in my post to show that this is happening a lot more often than we in America realize.

Let me make an analogy to what this all means. In today's corporate world, as we all know how the goals of a given business have shifted from customer centric to profit centric just in the last few years. E.g. I have known many people working for large commercial banks. I hear stories on a regualr basis as to how customers are cheated just to meet sales goals and to get some fees on their account so 'thugs' can make their bonuses and profits while relying on gullible people to know whats going on with their bank account. These personal acquaintances of mine tell me that individual banker will never lie or cheat with a customer unless he/she had a backing of a branch manager, and branch manager would not force his/her employee to lie to customers if she was not forced to meet sales goals if not backed by bank's regional manager. And do you really think that banks very top executives do not know about these practices? So yes, those individual bankers can hardly be blamed when the entire organization (especially top brass) had skewed goals in mind and customer satisfaction in not part of their goals.

On a slightly different note, I read many comments here indicating that they have sons/daghters/relatives working in the military and others do not know what its like, and therefore military is not be blamed. Again, there are good and bad people in all aspects of life but I guess then the same argument can be made for people working for banks, as they are simply taking orders from bank executives who are corrupt.

Points taken. Thank you. I definitely agree that we should NOT be in these wars.

And in a few moments the wrong-headed false patriots will be here to call us un-American for being sickened by this. You know, "these things happen in war," and all that. Since when do we fire upon people we THINK may be insurgents??? Whatever happened to confirming the targets? And then the coverup. And then some wonder why no one supports us any more.

It's a little late to complain now. You should have protested before Americans STARTED THE WAR. Don't blame this on the soldiers who are doing Americans dirty business. Grow a spine and some integrity.

It's a little late to complain now. You should have protested before Americans STARTED THE WAR. Don't blame this on the soldiers who are doing Americans dirty business. Grow a spine and some integrity.

Primary blame goes to the politicians, the media for selling this war but, soldiers still must be held accountable and their commanders even more, for poor training and not following the ROE. Also, it should be a crime to lie about such things to the American people.

How can we be asked to trust anything they tell us?

Johannes said- "It's a little late to complain now. You should have protested before Americans STARTED THE WAR. Don't blame this on the soldiers who are doing Americans dirty business. Grow a spine and some integrity."

As it happens, I have both. And it's never too late to hold people accountable for their actions. That's what living in a democracy is about. Even in a court of law, this incident was only three years ago. Besides which, in a democracy, we can and should question events which have been shamefully covered up, as well as any other happening. It's my civic duty.

And I suggest, if you have such a strong opinion, you apply it to the issue at hand, rather than randomly personally attacking strangers. Use your anger to fuel your beliefs in a positive way.

this is why you send others to go do violence on your behalf. because you are unwilling to do it yourself.

Mistakes DO happen, especially in a war. You can't judge from a video, you have no idea of what was happening at the time. Three years ago Iraq was a mess, and what our soldiers were going through was harsh. If an error is made it can turn into a tragedy, but you can not put yourselves into the situation the soldiers were dealing with. If soldiers doing their jobs the best they can in very difficult circumstances are made scapegoats to satisfy some need for "justice" (in a situation where mistakes are made), then that is also a miscarriage of justice.

Mistakes DO happen, especially in a war. You can't judge from a video, you have no idea of what was happening at the time.

+1 for the common sense. Posting a fragment of the video--the most damning fragment--is what caused the Rodney King riots. Nobody on these boards knows what was happening just before those shots were fired.

The ROE most likely require the soldiers to order any suspected insurgents to stop and lay down their weapons. Did they do that? Did anyone see that happen? Who knows? The video, specially edited for prime-time viewing, doesn't answer those questions. All it shows is people getting shot and all these posts and articles amount to is an a$$load of armchair quarterbacking.

Unless anyone was there and can prove malicious intent on the part of the soldiers, head on down to Starbucks and order a tall, steaming cup of STFU. Your opinions are worth slightly less than the sweat in my socks.

We get lied to everyday by the government, mr rogers

The public loves this type of material, just eats it up. I've never looked at this type of video, but am sure what passes for 'horror' is in fact a self-gratifying sort of voyeurism.

pist off-- you may be surprised to hear that in some ways, I agree with you. I'm not condemning the military's decisions that led up to this attack, alone, by watching this video. However, I do think they were overly trigger-happy, from what we've watched. Not only that, but shooting on the van, who in no way showed any signs of weapons-- horrible. But yeah-- I'm fine with admitting their may have been faulty intel, or whatever, that led them to pick this target in the first place. I'm very hopeful though, that it's release will bring even more information about that day-- so that all of us can construct a timeline and learn from the events.

That said, the cover-up alone, is disgraceful to me, as an American. Just when I think I can't be more embarrassed by my own country.

Mr Bernie, I'm not really trying to contradict your overall sentiment but rather a few of your points.

Now first in reference to your point about the van, when in that scenario (as a previous post stated, there's no time to double guess a judgement call, not so different from sports officials, only this isn't to uphold the integrity of a competition, but to keep your brothers in arms ALIVE) and unless I've missed a recent briefing, AH-64's are equipped with advanced optics but not superman x-ray, and unfortunately a van makes an ideal place to store weapons.

As far as the "cover-up" theory, sorry sir, but we Joe Blow everyday citizens ARE NOT ENTITLED to every waking move our troops make in combat scenarios. Nor are we privy to the Majority of events that happen in said scenarios. Being a veteran myself there's nothing more in the entire WORLD (to include our current economy) that angers me more to hear that the media is broadcasting our movements 2-3 weeks not to mention months in advance of us making them. To seguey back to my sports analogy, it's the same as telling the defense the play you are going to run.

Everybody knows that military intel is an oxymoron in and of itself, especially when you don't know who you are fighting. The intel troops to the very best with what they are given. So it is very likely to be less than accurate at any given time. And perhaps the attitude of these particular soldiers based upon "verified" audio evidence may be questionable, I can only ask this question. Would you do any different were it to be a loved one of your own who may or may not be harmed and you only have 1 second to analyze the data?

proust, the U.S. military is the most humane on earth, as far as militaries go. Name one that takes more care to prevent civilian deaths, I'll acknowledge it. What an Idiot.

I can name several that work harder to prevent civilian deaths, ie, all the ones that aren't invading other countries for no reason.

Your argument is completely invalid. There is no such thing as 'humane army'. Armies are trained to do just one thing and that is to 'KILL' which is precisely what these soldiers are doing. Oh and the most humane countries are the ones without Armies. Above all, war in US is unconstitutional and we have no reason to be in Iraq. Its all about OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL, baby.

my arguement IS valid. There is only one country on earth w/out an army- Costa Rica. And I DID qualify: "as far as militaries go." And our military goes on many more humanitarian missions than wars. And your analysis is wrong. It is about revenge for trying to assassinate George senior, and for oppourtunities for services companies in general. The british and B.P. will probably benefit far more than us. if I'm wrong, then Obama should be impeached for this as commander in chief. And Jace- you are a jackass.

Lmao, I am the Jackass! You are the one that still hasn't realized this happened in 2007. Also, there is no yard stick that measures "humaneness" as far as I know. I'm sure every country's citizens think that their military is the most humane.

Why dont you go enlist, obtain an officers commision and when your in charge of leading men in combat you can change whatever you see fit....from the front where change is made, not sitting in your apartment whining and crying about men whom you dont deserve to carry bath water for.

A clear reason why US and Israel are passionately hated by hundreds of millions of people all over Mid East and Asia

Of course, you are speaking of the manipulated video imagery being bruited about online. In case you haven't been paying attention--and you haven't--it's also our military at the forefront of bringing food and security to Haiti, Asia, Africa, and anywhere else that can't provide their own rescue or peacekeeping.

And you're also referring to the ignorant, gullible sheep (such as the jaces, prousts, and mental INValids of the world) who buy into it, yes?

AndyBlue- I see you are a huge Obama supporter. Are you intelligent enough to acknowledge that this is under his watch as commander in chief, and that furthermore, he has ratched up the Afghanistan war far more than Bush did, has not even pretended to close Gitmo, and still allows the use of torture?

Don't get your panties all in a twist blaming the US for everything.

It's a little late to complain now. You should have protested before Americans STARTED THE WAR. Don't blame this on the soldiers who are doing Americans dirty business. Grow a spine and some integrity.

Rock, apparently you are not smart enough to realize this did not happen under Obama's watch (not saying things like this aren't). It is from 2007. Before you spew your blind hatred of the current president you should probably at least make sure your aim is correct.

The video and incident in question is from 2007, I'll let you figure you what's wrong with your statement from there.

The video was shot in 2007.

Rock is a fine example of the intelligence of those tea party members. Learn to count and find out that Obama wasn't Commander in Chief in 2007.

If you were ever dumb enough to call my service or the uniforms I've worn in that service an American Disgrace in or out of uniform you'd real quickly wish you hadn't!! Then again you might luck out and find me in a good mood and I'd walk away but I wouldn't advise trying that roulette wheel!!! I dare anyone to ever say that in my presence (or any of my hundreds of friends in and out of the service), hernias or not I'll get some!!

Fred,

I'm sorry, but the cover up and whoever authorised the coverup are a disgrace. I dont really give a crap if they served. The gunners themselves were given incorrect information, and so couldn't of known better. But when someone tried to cover this up, THEY are scum. Military uniform or no military uniform.

You'll where your symbol of disgrace and live with it.

Never before in history has America been know as the nation who tortures. You disgrace us in front of the world.

Karma will get every single soldier involved with these atrocities. May they be tortured for the rest of their lives with the memories of the crimes they have committed on others.

Rape, Murder, Torture...... Never forget, Never escape the truth of what you have done.

The more who read this....the more powerful it becomes.

Andy, where do you get off condemning the soldiers as if they did this on purpose? You have no idea what happened, and the circumstances at the time. Shame on you for passing judgements on soldiers in a war zone trying to do their jobs. You have NO idea what it is like to be in war.

AndyBlue: May you never find yourself in such a position as these young men and women soldiers.

To say what you have said about them is disgraceful.

That's wear and as I said not one person typing away at their laptop is bad enough to tell me I'm a disgrace for my service in person and that's with a double hernia!! As for the rest of your lies, I don't have anything to escape from. I served with honor in Iraq just like I served with honor in the U.S. Navy in the 1980's. This was an unfortunate incident and it should be investigated and if warranted, appropriate UCMJ action taken but that doesn't change the fact the overwhelming majority of service members are decent people doing what has to be done. I didn't agree with the decision to overthrow Saddam and I thought that the soldiers at Abu Gharaib were a disgrace. One of the reasons I returned to the service was because I knew that I could be more professional than that. But one or two incidents sure as hell don't mean that all of our warriors are bad people!!

Wear your uniform of death, torture, rape and disgrace proudly.... You deserve it.

What is your problem?

OK NAZI.

Ja wol mein fuhrer! We will show them how great our empire is! /s

Heil Hitler to you too!

Soldiers throughout history have killed indiscriminately, for 'fun'. You know it.

I take it you've seen this first hand, rock0223 ?? If you haven't served in combat you really don't know much about it, do you?

rock0223

Soldiers throughout history have killed indiscriminately, for 'fun'. You know it.

Fred G. from N.C.

I take it you've seen this first hand, rock0223 ?? If you haven't served in combat you really don't know much about it, do you?

Unfortunately, there are those very few that will kill indiscriminately, giving rise to the ill-informed that will think it commonplace. Most often out of fear for their lives or their fellow soldiers' lives, some out of anger and retaliation for an ongoing or previous attack, but very, very few would kill indiscriminately for "fun." Does it happen? Yes. But at a much, much lesser rate than you would find in many large American cities. They're usually weeded out prior to deployment to a combat area.

"Reuters employees were likely "intermixed among the insurgents" and difficult to distinguish because of their equipment, the document states.

"It is worth noting the fact that insurgent groups often video and photograph friendly activity and insurgent attacks against friendly forces for use in training videos and for use as propaganda to exploit or highlight their capabilities," the document concludes."

In this instance, it doesn't say they were. It says they were "likely" intermixed. It's just pointing out that it's occurred in past situations. Not of what was actually going on in this instance.

But it's more of a justification for why they fired. Not an accurate account of the events on the ground. It's a big difference.

When I was a marine in Iraq the people were allowed to have one AK per household. Guns don't just magically appear under beds, they have to be transported somehow. Seeing a guy on the street with a gun from a helicopter is one thing, but to determine that he is an insurgent simply by the presence of a weapon is another. He could have been transporting a legal weapon, been a police officer in plain clothes (or uniform for that matter), been a member of a neighborhood watch (they do exist in Iraq), or as in this case, been carrying a camera.

rock - listen to the comments. There is nothing honorable of justifiable about this. In '07, U.S. was supposed to be there to establish order. Not to create disorder. This incident happened long after major combat operations had finished.

I kind of agree with Jace.

It appeard that 4 of them had AK-47s. One was carrying what DID appear to be an RPG, peeking around a corner.

Of course, the RPG could have been a large camera, sometimes used by photographers.

But reporters are supposed to wear those clearly marked Press jackets, aren't they?

The "Armchair militia"! They have war all figured out.....how how our own military men/women are a bunch of murderers.....how Bush lied........how we are an imperialist country.....LMFAO!

You anti-war, anti-America, anti-capitalism, wackos are too much for me! This country has done so much over WWI, WWII, Korean conflict, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., yet you all STILL don't appreciate the sacrifices our men and women have given for this country in the name of FREEDOM, battling TRYANNY, DICTATORS, MURDERERS, RAPIST'S, TORTURER'S, and PURE EVIL!!!!

The countries we saved from the Hitler's, Mussolini's, Chavez's, and ruthless dictators of the world owe their existence to us! We are one of the ONLY true FREEDOM loving countries, it seems, remaining who stops brutality, oppression, and torture of millions. We also aid disasters like famine, natural disasters, and emergency's around the globe. NO OTHER COUNTRY CAN STATE THAT!!

Ask Puerto Rico if America is an imperialist nation...

So expecting our nation, and it's military, to abide by the rules we expect to assert on the rest of the world makes us anti-American? What';s the point of removing dictators and opposing tyrants if we condone the murder of innocents by our own soldiers? Kind of think we lose that moral high ground if we don't hold ourselves to a much higher standard, top to bottom. See, some of us see America's problems and mistakes, of which there are many, and want to acknolwedge and fix them to make it STRONGER, and better, and not so hypocritical.

People like Gary are content to wave a flag, stick their heads in the sand, and all it patriotism. Your kind will lead to the downfall of our nation through sheer blindness to it's faults, allowing the to fester and overtake what makes us great.

Gary, I notice you left out Vietnam from your list of wars. Also, I don't think that most people are anti-military, they are just anti-"this war is necessary because w/o it you would already be speaking arabic or farsi and oh btw, we are going to invade your country then treat you like crap for your own good mmmkay?"

Gary also left out the Korean War.

3 uncles of mine fought in Korea(1 was 1st Marine Div. at the Chosan Reservoir). All agree that the US should have never put our soldiers in harms way in that waste of lives and $$.

All the military veterans in my family agree that we should have never invaded Iraq. Especially since there were other worse dictators and countries that were more brutal, killed more people, and had way more powerful WMD's than Saddam did.

American Lobo I served in Iraq. The people there had no life before we came. Worse dictators yes maybe no one can put a number on how many people died under his rule. But that country is better off and so is everyone in the world. When America does nothing we are hated when we try to help we are hated there and here. Will we ever win.

Uh, they had a life, in Iraq. It was a fairly wealthy, developed country. Now it's a @!$%#ing mess. This is why we don't assassinate world leaders anymore, because we become responsible for cleaning up the aftermath. We kind of caused a lot more problems in the area than Saddam was (there was no large terrorist presence in the country, at the least, and people weren't being blown up going to buy fruit). It's kind of debatable whether or not their better off. Sometimes the evil you know...

I agree with you Capt.

I've spoke to Iraqis that lived there before we invaded. 1 was studying at a top university there before we invaded. All have said that the majority of the cities had decent basic services(water/electricity/plumbing) before the "war". Some even had internet.

There weren't many suicide bombers either.

As bad as Saddam was, he kept most violent groups in check. He also deterred Iranian backed terrorism. Yes, he did order the gassings of tens of thousands of Kurds(20 years back give or take). Why didn't our government step in right after the Kurds were gassed? We had to have known about it. He must've still been our "friend" at the time. Our government helped make Saddam what he was.

It's easy to say that Iraqis "had no life before we came" if you aren't one of them or if you personally disagree with how they live.

Did you see how they lived before the bombings and invasion took out their infrastructure? Probably not.

Do we really have to explain to you why covering up mistakes is a bad thing? If so, then I feel really sorry for you.

So would you rather just kill everyone since it is easier and less dangerous to sort who is bad and who is good? Maybe all the rapists in Haiti will carry a big red banner stating they are rapists.

Part of what makes America great is that this country does try and should acknowledge mistakes and crimes, opposed to countries that bury everything. We do live in the grey area, the world isn't black and white...and if you go thu shooting everyone....well you can expect pay back in some shape and form...it may take centuries.

It is best to acknowledge these mistakes as a progressive country and keep trying to prevent them. If we didn't acknowledge them, then why would we try to stop them from happening?

And most countries don't kill every man woman and child...especially developed countries. Leaders in countries that do, we condemn and consider war criminals. Developed Countries have the luxury of holding ourselves to a higher standard. Nothing to be ashamed of there.

Or do you want to put a bullet in just the head of evil dictators? Who are the evil dictators, psychopaths? Who replaces them once the void is created? What would be the reaction of the people of that country? Do you throw them into a civil war where hundreds of thousands get killed or weakened so they can be taken over by other countries that may go in and kill everyone? There are repercussions to the actions you suggest...so think before you make them.

Considering the long term ramifications is what separates good leaders from...well..you.

Good comment J.Heron. Also you could have pointed out that many "evil dictators, psychopaths" were our supported friends before they became our villified enemies. It`s all in timing and what we consider our national needs for that day.

The incident has been investigated, and it was a mistake. Stop judging soldiers fighting our wars. They have to live with their part, even if it was a mistake. Don't make them scapegoats.

in order to understand things about the way the world works a person has to actually leave behind the comforts of home and go to these places. the places also cannot be institutes of education or for vacation.

real life outside of the U.S. is brutal with very few exceptions.

I am sorry,

Who said this was a cover up and not part of a larger reel depicting information that was classified (as most mission tapes are)? It would take a second to de-class....

Didn't you folks have enough spitting at the Vietnam war troops returning home...? Or did you all need another round to make you 'feel American' ?

You distrust our troops but trust your FEDERAL Governments? Wow...

I hate collectivists...

Remember...

"It is for the common good..." In any situation regarding laws over you is the most dangerous phrase you can hear. Treat it with contempt. It means no good will come for you. You will sacrifice. When a man asks you to sacrifice, it is guaranteed that all but you will benefit.

Collectivism = Fail

I mean really... question this? This looks like war to me.

Go watch Desperate Housewives, or whatever else the media is feeding you - this video is no place for YOU SHEEP, as your SHEPHERDS ARE WORKING TO SAVE YOUR WOOL, FFS!

I never suggested killing everyone, jackass. The rapists in Haiti are pretty much given free roam as they are escaped convicts that got out when the jail collapsed. When the women go to report these things to the "Authorities", they are given no protection. In fact, one woman said that she identified the 3 attackers to 2 U.N. Peacekeepers assigned to the area, and they did nothing. Yes, there are ways to confirm or deny if they did it or not, but if proven guilty, wouldn't that girl had been spared the torture of 3 men raping her if those 3 men were in fact at one time in that jail, and a bullet had been applied to their heads? What I'm saying is, we take every one at face value as good. When it is proven that they are not, THEN put the bullet in the head. Think about it, JA, of course killing everyone is a stupid idea. Yes, it was a mistake, but what the hell do people think they can go running around battle zones for?! Taking pictures?! That situation is not about "high scores", it is about eliminating potential threats to our soldiers. Most countries my ass! How civilized are these countries you speak of? There are only 8 countries on the UN panel, and over 150 countries in the world! China and Russia are on that panel, too! Civilized my ass! If they are all so civilized, we don't have genocides and wars all over the world, then, do we? No I do not want to just put the bullets in the heads of evil dictators and psychopaths. I want to put a bullet in the head of all those who follow in their footsteps, as well. I suppose the reaction by the people in the country would be different depending on what country and what dictator/bastard's country you were in, wouldn't it? And why would any other countries go in and kill everyone in this civilized world where everyone loves each other? I've thought plenty, jackass, about what I suggest, and the fools who don't think of the long term ramifications as they should, are the ones with the heads up their, well, you!

Yes, journalists recieve tip offs from people, and so go to locations to report the stories. Remember, the issue here isnt so much the shooting (it is an issue, but the gunners were given incorrect information, and so therefore can't be blamed). The bad thing is someone tried to cover this up. That is disgraceful.

It was investigated. Is every mistake in war supposed to go through the court of public opinion?

Apparently nowdays it is.

indy you are taking for granted that the journalist was from the U.S. or pro american.

Aren't journalists supposed to be nuetral-there Smart Guy?

Friendly fire is generally not the term that is used when it comes to the killing of unarmed civilians. Also it does not matter whether he was pro-american or not, he was at the very least killed due to negligence.

Fear, Fear, Fear. That's all you have to hold on to. Sad.

And it's not "bashing." It's thinking that our military should be held to higher standards compared to the savages we fight. But when you see them acting on the same level as them, then it's only right to point out our disgust.

The second you start to behave like the enemy, you become no better than they are.

hunt for fun (that's a sure clue right there): War will come to our doorstep because of actions like these.

God may bless America but he doesn't bless murderers. I would argue that the real spineless coward is the one who fails to criticize this video, you.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Yes, I can clearly remember Jesus advocating murder to advance your political goals. Shame on you for using God's name to justify your despicable warmongering. You're just as bad as the terrorists who use Islam to justify murder.

What a bunch of cowards! All you posters critizing our military as you sit at your little desk typing on your computer in your safe home. Enjoying all the freedoms that our military has fought for all these years. Easy to pass judgement on these men and women. You all are a disgrace to our Country! God Bless America...war is war..mistakes are made, lives are lost. They deserve our respect.

America rests on far stronger laurels than its military might. It's far more likely 'huntforfun', that your type will cease to exist over time, and America will still be stronger than ever. You're a negative for this country. Not a positive.

oh buzz off watt75. There are many other free societies that enjoy equal or better standards of living than Americans without a real military to speak of. Why do you need some people with guns to protect you? You did something wrong?

BR...so we who support our military are a negative to our Country? WTF? Obviously you have never served your Country...Why do you even live here...there are flights out of this country hourly....

"There are many other free societies that enjoy equal or better standards of living than Americans without a real military to speak of."

BR...then why don't you move there?

watt75 - I am just fine here and I love this country. What I don't like are people like you who equate our freedoms to the protection that is provided by the barrel of a gun. I disagree with that. If others can be free, prosperous and free of war culture, why can't we? I will stay here looking forward to that day and you have zero rights to tell others whether they should move elsewhere or not. Grow up.

huntforfun......WELL STATED MY FRIEND.....WELL STATED!!

Save your breath on these cowards, and chicken-littles who would rather wake-up in their "idealistic" fantasy world until they find the killers at their doorstep, then shout, "help us America......help us!"

Had we took that stance in WWII, we'd ALL be speaking German! LOL!

What stance? You people just don't @!$%#ing get it. No one is saying stop defending America. We're saying don't become the Germans and start gassing Japanese Americans - to stick with your WWII analogy. Hitler's desire was for us to become like him in order to defeat him. He'd have considered that a victory. People like you think it's part of war, but it's not. What we saw in that video ain't how we want America conducting it's business. Nor the cover up that followed.

It takes a real coward to hide from his mistakes. I like to think of America as braver than that, braver than you.

It was a mistake, Capt. They had bad intel. Get a grip and stop blaming them for murder. It was a WAR ZONE and mistakes happen. That is a fact. Even when you do your best things can go wrong. It was investigated and it was a mistake. I think the war in Iraq should have never started, but you can't blame someone just to have a scapegoat. @!$%# happens in wars.

BR, you know why those countries that are 'better' than the US don't have a military? It's because OUR (USA) military makes their existance possible.

i think people are upset because the best the hijackers could bring to the table were a few planes. Once the U.S. recovered from the wound we said "my turn" and now the little insurgents are complaining "woe is me!".

part of the problem in combatting terrorism is that that kind of enemy knows where safe haven is. specifically they know that by hiding in a country the U.S. has no reason to attack it makes it very difficult to get to the threat from where we are at.

I didn't call it murder. I called it a mistake. I'm pissed that no one did anything about it or held anyone responsible. @!$%# happens, yeah, but you pay the price for your @!$%# ups. The Pentagon told several lies relating to this incident prior to the release of the video. That's where the anger comes from.

Uh, suggesting that Americans single handedly won WWII is a total distortion and an insult to every other country that fought. The USSR probably served the most vital role and suffered, BY FAR, the greatest number of casualties during operation Barberossa.

It is also totally disingenous to compare WWII to this invasion of Iraq. It's a non-sequitur.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I just don't understand why they shot the van. It seems to me that the likely reason it was there was to evacuate and help the injured.

Even if those killed by the helicopter were "insurgents", which was never established, why are the unarmed people coming to help the wounded and collect the bodies also fired upon? Judging by the delay between the sound of gunfire and the impacts at the target area, the Apache was several miles away and in no danger from ground fire, and the radio conversation makes no mention of enemy fire. However you could hear them begging for permission to kill more people for no reason.

We are only told what the media wants us to know, and that is usually half-baked. See my post #4.1

perfect!

1. Hard to stay out of a war zone when you live there.

2. The issue isnt so much the shooting, its that someone tried to cover this up. That's just pathetic.

It WAS investigated. You want every mistake to be on the cover of Time?

my problem is, is that the US created all of Iraq as a "war zone" then uses that as form of circular reasoning to justify the shootings.

The REAL debate should have nothing to do with whether or not the soldiers acting properly. It should be - why the heck is America in Iraq to begin with?? This incident should serve as a wakeup call. All that is being accomplished are body bags being filled on both sides.

actually I didnt see the date- I'll admit that- And I was playing devil's advocate- I voted for Obama, but you dolts are why republicans hate knee-jerk liberals. if you really think the U.S. military is evil, then you live a sheltered, small minded, frightened life.

if you really think the U.S. military is evil, then you live a sheltered, small minded, frightened life.

Most liberals don't think the US military is evil, they just do evil things sometimes. The military can be a force of good, but in this instance soldiers performed an evil act.

Why are you too stubborn to admit that?!?

I am liberal, and I fully support our troops. My son served 15 months in Iraq and I know what happens in a war. War is hell, and mistakes happen. This was not evil, this was bad intel. Stop judging that which you know nothing about. It was investigated.

Almost every post i read indirectly exposes what the true result of this instance should be:

The REAL debate should have nothing to do with whether or not the soldiers acting properly. It should be - why the heck is America in Iraq to begin with?? This incident should serve as a wakeup call. All that is being accomplished are body bags being filled on both sides.

I don't think any reasoning person can claim to know whether or not the shootings followed protocol. The fact that these situations come up should spur people to action to get troops OUT of Iraq.

I'm REALLY getting tired of this:

The issue isnt so much the shooting, its THAT SOMEONE TRIED TO COVER THIS UP. That is disgraceful.

it was investigated.

I'd like to YELL that, but the vine thinks it is too much for everyone's eyes.

It was investigated, and the report was filled with statements clearly contradicted by the video. Which one would generally classify as lies.

Such as statements regarding not knowing how the journalists were killed or he children injured.

I think that the importance of this is not necessarily the event shown, but the possibility that this is only the tip of the iceberg in a much larger picture. I was a marine infantryman in 2003 during the invasion, people are just now realizing the atrociousness which I realized years ago when I was piling up dead bodies into the back of trucks after a night of shooting everything in sight.

jace you are full of @!$%#. marine infantrymen have discipline- you might have played a lot of HALO, but I'm betting thats the extent of your military experience. Either that, or you were the biggest pogue going...

Jace-559382: Sorry Jace, but you were never a Marine. You might have gone to boot camp and got kicked out. That does not make you a Marine. Lets see if you can answer some simple military Questions. If you get a Honorable discharge you have a Enlistment Code of ? What is a E-7? What do you call a brand new Lieutenant? What is your 12 general order? What was the Name of your Duty Station?

Apparently you weren't there during the invasion. Also I was very disciplined, I shot every car, building, or person that I was told to.

Okay, you want to be stupid I guess. I joined the marines on may 21, 2001 and was discharged may 20, 2005 (sort of a lie as I used up my remaining leave to get out about a month early) upon which I received my dd214 of course. My mos was 0313, most of my time was spent as a gunner on an LAV-25, (the 242 bushmaster, funny coincidence to the video at hand) and I was stationed at Camp Lejeune during my time in 2nd LAR (thats light armored recon for those of you not in the know). I was deployed to Iraq twice, once during the invasion, and for a year in 2004 in the area of the city of Iskandariyah. An E7 is a gunnery seargent and I have no idea what a new lt. or the 12th general order is. Anything else?

Jace-559382: Obviously you cant even answer simple Military Questions that every Marine Knows. You Sir are a lying peace of ****. You never served and are a Pathological Liar.

Would you like my SS# as well? Oh also, I went to bootcamp in San Diego, on the east coast they call those Hollywood marines. I also doubt that most active duty marines know their general orders.

Dont know your Enlistment Code of ? it would be on your DD214. HMM

Dont know your 12 general order? HMM very interesting...

Dont know what you call a brand new Lieutenant? Even more interesting...

Dont know your the Name of your Duty Station? Even more interesting...

I knew you only would have very limited knowledge of the Military if you google everything. Cant find everything on the net, thats why I ask for things you would not be able to google, but every Marine Knows...

Enlistment Code, 12 general order, what you call a brand new Lieutenant? these you can not google...

This just confirms you never served in the Marines: (I also doubt that most active duty marines know their general orders.) These are drilled into you in boot camp and your asked repeatedly what they are. You should apologies to everyone on this site and tell them the Truth you never served a day in your life.

Are you trolling? I clearly answered your questions, pardon me if I can't remember how many medals Chesty Puller had, or exactly what rifleman Dodd was carrying when he rejoined his unit :)

Now for you, I will not question whether you are (or were) a marine or not but I will assume that you were not in Iraq during the invasion and have probably not ever killed anybody. If you had done the former you would know that events like the one portrayed in the video are far from uncommon. If you had done the latter I would assume that you would not be so gung ho about the war in Iraq and would have perhaps realized the futility and hopelessness of the situation.

Jace-559382: Just because you saw the movie Jarhead, does not make it you were there or that everything in the movie was true... I asked you very simple question that ever Marine would know the answer too even 60 years after the fact. Only two reasons why you would not know the answer, one would be a brain injury or two your not a Marine... I know I was one and can answer all the above questions with ease. I just will not post the answers do to, I dont want you to portray yourself as a Marine and have more info to trick people that you were one. One such answer would be what was your Enlistment Code its on a DD214. You cant even answer that one. Answer me this how many Wheels does a LAV-25 have?

You must be trolling. If I was never a marine then what is this weird tattoo on my back? And where was I for those four years? Strange......

Obviously you cant answer my questions. So you go off saying weird tattoo on my back. HMM A tattoo does not make you a Marine. People try to pass off as a Marine and even get Tattoo's, but dont know **** about anything. Like you... Here I will take it all back if you answer a very very very simple question. I want to know what Platoon you were in, in Boot Camp. For future reference a LAV-25 has 8 road wheels, plus a spare. Just so you know....

Jace, my son served in Iraq, and I can't believe someone who served (unless you sat on base the whole time) would pass judgment like you do on soldiers in a WAR, getting bad intel and acting on it. It was investigated and it was a mistake. I'll be pissed if they start reopening investigations in these. @!$%# happens in wars, and they do the best they can in the circumstances.

lib50: Jace Never served, I just proved that with the questions I was asking him.. Even if he sat at the base the whole time he would know how many Road wheels a LAV-25 had, do to he said (spent as a gunner on an LAV-25) I hate fakes. They try to tell bogus story's and some people believing them, do to they dont know they are a fake and telling fake stories. I hate people like Jace, all Jace has done is spit on us true service men and women.

Lib, my problem isn't really with the individual soldiers, just the Iraq war in general. (I have no problem with the one in Afghanistan btw)

@leatherneck. To humor you I looked at my dd214. The funny thing is, there is no enlistment code! The only codes that I see at all are the separation and reentry codes, mine are mbk1 and re-1a respectively. If those are what you are talking about then that is hilarious because I would never have any reason to have either of those memorized.

Wow you finally got one and found out its called on the DD214 a reentry code, but Marines called it your Enlistment code. So since you finally diged around so much for that answer again This is very very very Easy what Platoon were you in Boot Camp? Come on I should get a answer with in seconds of this post.

2069, we were terrible :)

Why would I have that enlistment code memorized anyways?

Why would I have that enlistment code memorized anyways? When you get out admin tells you to memorizes this code... Every Marine I ever came across has asked me when I tell them that I was a Marine. They ask what was my Enlistment Code was, if you dont know it they dont believe you. So answer me this you telling you dont know what the 12 General Order is?, You dont know what you call a new LT? and you did not know how many road wheels were on a LAV-25.

I have never had any reason to know what my enlistment code was, I promptly forgot what my 12th general order was, new lt.'s are called lots of things, and I never said I didn't know how many wheels are on an LAV. Can I have an opinion that differs from yours now, or have I not earned it yet?

You can have a opinion that differs. Just to tell false stories.

I was against the war in Iraq when it was still an idea in Bush's head. I saw it coming in the spring of 2001. But my son spent 15 months over there in some of the worst conflict in Mosul, and I know what happens. You have to separate anger of Bush starting the fricken war with the soldiers sent to fight. Mistakes definitely happen in war, and it is really important not to blame the soldiers when those mistakes happen. It is already something they have to live with. There are a lot of people passing judgments on here when they know nothing about it.

Why is it utterly impossible for people to distinguish between soldiers and the wars they fight in?? It is a logical fallacy that goes something like this "Because you criticize the war you hate all soldiers and ergo are a cowardly immoral good for nothing".

Almost every post i read indirectly exposes what the true result of this instance should be:

The REAL debate should have nothing to do with whether or not the soldiers acting properly. It should be - why the heck is America in Iraq to begin with?? This incident should serve as a wakeup call. All that is being accomplished are body bags being filled on both sides.

I don't think any reasoning person can claim to know whether or not the shootings followed protocol. The fact that these situations come up should spur people to action to get troops OUT of Iraq.

I hope you are joking. Wearing a blue vest and painting his camera white would probably get a journalist killed faster than anything.

well at least is better than camouflage and nothing. Press is supposed to be neutral. You should check out liveleak more frequently. Most of the camera guys wear a blue bullet proof vest along with a press sign for a very good reason. If you want to wear cammo as a journalist in a war zone, fine with me, its your ass getting shot at by your own or the enemy, but being neutral helps!!!

True, I think that the reporters that can pass as Iraqi prefer to blend in though. Like you said though, if they didn't know he was American then that's not their fault. I think the real issue is not just that the cameraman was killed, but all the others as well. Plus the unprofessional sounding radio chatter, but people need to realize that radio chatter is not like it is in the movies and gets a bit messy at times.

That was recorded intercom and not radio.

The Geneva convention does not cover them so the point there is mute. The Geneva convention cover "opposing uniformed forces"...so insurgents do not belong in this group however uncle Sam did do everything they could to tie our hands in this conflict. The military is a sharp tool that needs to be carefully used and it is not meant for peacekeeping. Monday morning quarterbacking is nice but holds no water when you were not there. TThey, ie pilots, acted within the guidelines and as in any war in past and 100% sure, innocent will get killled. There is no magic bullet that only kills only the enemy so get over it!...nobody was up in arms when the enemy beheaded and desacrated our soldiers so there is no mercy for them......if attrition is what they are going for then we are winning hands down!!

Andy - You can't invade a country and then decide the enemy doesn't have rights under the geneva convention because you don't like how they dress. You make it sound like it was some kind of inevitable conflict between two armies. And I don't know what news your watching but I have seen dozens of stories on kidnappings and beheadings. In fact, years ago you could even watch them on youtube. Doesn't make it right of course.

Why is it utterly impossible for people to distinguish between soldiers and the wars they fight in?? It is a logical fallacy that goes something like this "Because you criticize the war you hate all soldiers and ergo are a cowardly immoral good for nothing".

Almost every post i read indirectly exposes what the true result of this instance should be:

The REAL debate should have nothing to do with whether or not the soldiers acting properly. It should be - why the heck is America in Iraq to begin with?? This incident should serve as a wakeup call. All that is being accomplished are body bags being filled on both sides.

I don't think any reasoning person can claim to know whether or not the shootings followed protocol. The fact that these situations come up should spur people to action to get troops OUT of Iraq.

Hey, I'm liberal and I totally agree with you on this. My son served 15 months and was investigated for a mistake. I'll be pissed if they start reopening closes investigations. War is hell and @!$%# happens.

Perhaps if that van said "PRESS" or "REUTERS" on the roof, some lives may have been saved or if the reporter and cameraman had blue helmets and vests on and were not in that chopper's kill box and who drives their kids around a war zone anyways? It was a good call to hurry up and fire when the targets were clustered like that to avoid collateral damage since thats what you do while flying close air support in an urban environment. The American people have a right to know but they do not have the right to take events like this out of context and pass judgment on our military for doing what we asked of them. Same press that gave us this story is the same press that sold us this war in the first place. I know that gunner was just plain horrified when he learned the truth of his actions but that is the nature of war. By the way, WIKI-anything is biased to begin with and WAR IS HELL.

then why are over amillion Iraqis dead or just dissapeared ffrom the face of the earth. Torture, Rape and murder were regular occurences at every American Military run detention center in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Every single one.... Truely an American Disgrace, Brought to you by the United States Military.

Americas Disgrace.

If you think it's an American disgrace pack your f**king bags and move to the middle east and stay there a few years and see how your treated.

Kathryn 25.2:

I couldn't agree more!

And for all those who think they could do a better job than those overseas dieing in service of our country ... Go raise your right hand, enlist for four years, go do the job they are asked to do every day!!

Then come back here and tell us how PERFECT you were over there in the war zone.

It was an AWFUL mistake, that no one wishes would have happened.

damifino, stop trying to make all liberals the same. We all have our own ideas and ideology, believe it or not. I totally support the troops and will be pissed if they start scapegoating them for mistakes made during a war. This was investigated and found to be bad intel. Period.

Andy, since you saw these rapes and murders and you obviously did nothing about it you are just as guilty, or more so then the perpetrators. Or Andy, were you one of the perpetrators?

damifino:Reuters is hardly a left wing media outlet. Stop blaming the messenger for the facts and realize that a terrible event occurred and the US military was responsible. We need to learn from it and makes sure it doesn't re occur. The US had no real reason to invade Iraq and hopefully we will get the hell out soon.

We went on the best info we had at the time. I believe although the facts came out to be wrong. The Greater good of us over there one day will be shown. Until you can see though the eyes of the men and women who are serving please keep your comments about the war to yourself thank you.

Bull USMarine...... Bull. This fiasco is the great American Embarrassment of the 21st Century.

Live with it. This is nothing but a disgrace.

Why is it utterly impossible for people to distinguish between soldiers and the wars they fight in?? It is a logical fallacy that goes something like this "Because you criticize the war you hate all soldiers and ergo are a cowardly immoral good for nothing".

Almost every post i read indirectly exposes what the true result of this instance should be:

The REAL debate should have nothing to do with whether or not the soldiers acting properly. It should be - why the heck is America in Iraq to begin with?? This incident should serve as a wakeup call. All that is being accomplished are body bags being filled on both sides.

I don't think any reasoning person can claim to know whether or not the shootings followed protocol. The fact that these situations come up should spur people to action to get troops OUT of Iraq.

I can't believe how almost every poster confuses criticism of this war with a personal attack on America. Land of the free - "Pack your bags and get out if you don't like the way we invade soveriegn territories."

When you say "armed" men, you assume that these were "bad" men. Both are pretty flimsy assumptions based on the slim info that we are judging from.

If you knew the Rules of Engagement (ROE) you would know that they are bad. All crediable reports and security details are required to wear certain clothing and colors. They know the ROE just as we do when entering a war zone.

For all that have never been in war, until you have you can only assume you know what is right. Enemies come in very different shapes, sizes, clothing. That is why we have an ROE to distinquish the good from the bad. Until you have been shot at, blown up you will never know sitting in your home furnished by free freedom by All that gave and some that Gave All from all war's.

Reuters should be the one displined for not enforcing the journalist and camera man to follow the ROE.

When US soil is envaded and all you want is for someone to come save your ass........But we will not have time for you......only for the one's that have never waivered in loyalty :~) come first.

Enemies do come in all shapes and sizes, but the guy who is openly walking around with a gun is probably doing so because he's not an enemy. While the real enemy is walking around with a garage door opener hidden under his clothes that is wired to an ied hoisted up into a palm tree. It's hard to determine what really happened here but the supposed cover up by the army would lend evidence that it was something that they thought was embarrassing.

I agree with you 100% wowforreal! I saw the RPG in plain sight also.

I have always known that this happens! How did you always know this happens? You don't know jack...