Yep. This has the stink of Chechnyan muslim terrorism all over it.

Two female suicide bombers. It's not sounding good. I think there will be a pretty good crack-down coming soon.

The Russian "Gulag" will chase the originators of this terrorist attack. Now Russia will be watching all women. They are going to be made to take off their babushkas. (Head Scarf) Face seen.

Yes, Russia has their own internal problems with the Chechens ( Sunni Muslims)---hope they don't hunt down all the Sunni's. Russia is not kind. They execute very quickly.

Russia still uses their Communist ways in handling these kinds of matters. Medvedev has his hands full trying to placate to Iran, also. (Willingly).

Russia still uses their Communist ways in handling these kinds of matters

Communist ways? NATO forces in Iraq are communists too?

Communist ways? What's that, they're going to give free health care to everyone?

Just wait until this crap starts happening here in the US. How are we going to react? What do you think will happen when IED's start going off on I-5 in Seattle? Will you risk it and still drive to work?

"Communist ways? What's that, they're going to give free health care to everyone?"

You don't know @!$%#. You won't find any free health care in China.

Growing Islamist insugency... I didn't have to read any further!

Looking for justice? The experience of life is a series of events that to a substantial degree are fatalistically determined. At least the end is certain. But it's difficult for many to think of it as particularly 'just'.

same demons like hamas,hezbollah.Iran Syria and many other groups..international terrorists ..the confusers will say its Isreal Colombia and other countries that are the victims of terrorism.. who are the terrorists ..no hope for these people.. with moral dyslexia who see everything upside down ..fortunately most people know the diiference..between the terrorists and those who are fighting against this demon...No let up in eliminating al quida hamas, hezbollah, the black widows the ayatollahs..the talebans....and many more...go after them!!!!!

To Jimmy James.

We do have free health care for every citizen in Russia. It was created in the times of Socialism. It is still working. Source of financing is a contribution by every company of a percentage on top of gross salaries they pay employees. Unemployed people have free medical insurance from the government.

Wake up, Jimmy!

Someday the world will realize that radical Islamist must be eradicated worldwide.

I wonder if the still living architects of this attack will be arrested and tried in the Russian civilian court system? I wonder if this matters much to the victims who's only crime was commuting to work?

I'm interested. What is the consensus here? I gather no one likes the Chechens because some of them are not Christian. But on threads related to arms reductions, no one seems to like the Russians either. When Russia invaded Georgia last year, North American sentiment tended to side with the Georgians.

Is the popular view that Russia remains evil in all things, except when they offend non-Christians? Is it a fair statement to say that none of you guys actually take time to think about things before you start talking?

Having been friends with a lovely Russian fellow, it's the last country I would piss off. They're not as concerned with "image" as America is. I am really interested in how Russia will handle this...

My condolences to those who lost and lost loved ones in this incident.

God bless the survivors, and my prayers for the dead.

The first amendment is found in the Bill of Rights. Newsvine is provided by a private interest, with a policy described as a "Code of Honor." Comment #1.3 may have been collapsed after a number of users flagged it irrelevant. It has not been deleted by a moderator and may in fact be restored.

The comment wasn't the most inflammatory thing I've ever read, but it had very little to do with the topic. Reads like trolling to me. No message boards on any news sites are enriched by deliberate attempts to distract from the topic.

The word is now that female bombers perpetrated this foul deed. Female suicide bombers are almost never true believers, but rather victims themselves,coerced into this dirty deed. Will these turn out to be willing participants in their own demise? We may never know, but it will be interesting to find out.

Steech,

When Georgia invaded Abkazia my wife and her family fled as bullets bounced though their house. What bothers me about US policy is we denounced the Russians for invading Georgia, and they did go a little heavy handed at the end, but they were protecting Russian citizens in S. Ossetia and supporting a region claiming independence. If this had been a pro-US region rather than pro-Russia claiming independence and Georgia invaded our tune would have been different. Both the US and Russia are the big kids on the block and try to one-up the other. Personally I have nothing against Russia, I married one, and there are times US policies make me wonder.

Thank you, Falconer. My reading of the issue is that South Ossetia is, for all practical purposes, ethnically Russian. This is not a justification of invading a sovereign state. If conditions are bad in Georgia, the Georgian government should be accountable for organized, systematic correction.

Invasion is the antithesis to orderly solution. The fact that Russia's stated goal was not clear to the international community and extended beyond simple liberation of ethnic Russians makes Russia's actions even more regrettable.

I also have a benign attitude toward Russia in general, but am able to focus on aspects of their policies that are in need of... improvement. I side with the Chechens here, for example, but deplore their tactics. It is complicated and seems contradictory if not well explained.

@ orbust: I took the bait by responding to #1.20. I shouldn't have and apologize for becoming a part of the distraction. But to answer #1.23 ("Steech...what does 1.18 have to do with the artical !"):

The implied purpose of threads like these is to express opinions about topics in the news and popular culture. Doing so is entertaining, both to those who opine and those who are simply interested in what others are saying.

Russia has been one of the biggest foreign policy stories for a week or so (second only to the war and tied with the South Korean ship that sank Friday). I've successfully gathered that a considerable portion of folks on Newsvine are opposed to Russia in the arms control talks. The nature of some comments leads me to believe they are ideologically opposed to Russia itself.

The tone of anti-Chechen comments on this thread has similarities to the tone of anti-Russian comments on others. I wonder if they are not, in fact, being posted by some of the same people. If so, what is unusual or inappropriate about asking for clarification? Presumably, those taking the time to post an opinion are doing so for some reason other than to see their words on a screen.

Presumably their mission is to influence others. I'm asking for clarification. I am open to influence. I appreciate your concern and interest in shepherding me in the rites of internet decorum. I hope I have satisfied your criticism over form. I hope someone will furnish me with an answer.

...but violence has intensified in the neighboring regions of Dagestand and Ingushetia, where Islamic militancy overlaps with clan rivalries and criminal rings."

The "Black Widows" are the alleged suicide bombers, since they are vindictive, brainwashed monsters, I guess they feel that innocent people have to die at their hands due to their muslim beliefs.....which is hatred, violence,revenge and total takeover of every human and their country!!

Who wins here? in the Russia and in every country that affected by terrist acts?? no one!

the muslims are just hated even more, but here in Amercia the liberals and democrats have to be "politically correct" and watch what they say, do and how to behave for fear?! give me a break!! I hope Russia squashes those terrorists as soon as possible, the Russians are not a joke!!! God Bless Russia!! and the innocent victims who died and were injured.

If this was the work of Chechen rebels, they have bitten off more than they can chew.

It's not really about their Muslim beliefs when it comes to Chechens vs Russians - this is a direct result of Russia's long war against that country and people. It's less about Allah and more about dead family and destroyed lives and occupied territory. People just see Muslim and immediately think religious fanatic,jihad, etc, but Chechens, while radical, are more akin to the ViertCong than Al Quaeda. They're clearly not happy with the current state of affairs but no longer are capable of sustaining meaningful conventional warfare.

This only proves that violence breeds more violence. It is a worldwide virus that is not contained in the Middle East.

Until we all stop "getting even" with each other, this senseless carnage will continue. Greed for land and power fuels the fire.

My condolences to the families of the victims.

Is the popular view that Russia remains evil in all things, except when they offend non-Christians?

Russians are evil?. Ahh c'mon, they are some of the nicest people on the planet. (sarc)

Notice once again Obama refuses to call this what it is, Muslim terrorism. His refusal to speak clearly , directly and accurately only militates in favor of these cold blooded killers. Hopefully the innocent Russian people won't succumb to his misrepresentation and will instead reject his inaccurate and PC analysis and seriously prosecute the war against the Muslim killers.

Russia, Georgia, Ukraine are all in a fight with Muslim insurgents; their entire southern borders are Muslim country's they have been at war with them for over 700 years; the Muslim population is growing at three times the rate of the European Russian population, same as over here; What is it about our media and government that they do not understand, this is a world war, being politically correct is going to get a lot of people killed, it is them or us.

Considering that the Russians continue to be major economic and political supporters of the terrorist nation of Iran, I wonder how they like being victims of terrorism. Not that I ever expect them to change their minds about supporting Iran. They always did have a problem connecting the dots.

"sometimes I'm a little disappointed in the understanding of the first amendment here on newsvine..."

Your own lack of understanding of the First Amendment disappoints me.

The First Amendment protection of free speech only applies to government suppression of speech. Nobody has any "right" to say what they want on this, or any other private communication outlet.

In addition, the moderators didn't collapse your comment, although they are within their rights to do so. Your comment was collapsed by the readers, who determined that your snarky comment didn't warrant being a part of the discussion.

People like you seem to think the First Amendment means that everyone has to be forced to read/ hear what you have to say. Even under the First Amendment, we are all free to ignore whomever we wish. Thank goodness.

It's time for the Red Army to wipe out a few thousand terrorists.

I spent 5 years in the Caucasus and Russia running operations and studying the situation there. A few things people should know.

1. Chechens are not popular with their neighbors for the most part because they have attacked them for hundreds of years. It's arguable that the difference between them and the Russians is that the Russians won under Ivan the Terrible. Grozny means "terrible" or "awful" in Russian. But Chechen hillbillies still attack villages in northern Georgia. I remember a sign in Tbilisi reading, "Chechen vechen" in Georgian. It means, "Chechens will eternally be a problem."

2. Russia used Chechen mercenaries in Abkhazia to take over that province of the country of Georgia after Georgia seceded from the USSR. Those troops killed around 100,000 Georgians and caused an influx of around 500,000 refugees into the capital of Tbilisi in 1991. After Russia was done with those mercenaries they trained and funded, "the boys went home". It was those out of work mercenaries who attacked the Russian garrisons in the early 1990's. Initially, they sliced them to ribbons.

3. Under Shevardnadze, arms were allowed through Georgia to Chechens in Chechnya with payment to Shevardnadze collected by the interior ministry. This was done to keep the Russian army tied up in Chechnya. As long as Russia was tied up in Chechnya, it would not be able to attack Georgia. After Saakishvili was elected, he did what the US State department wanted him to do and stopped the arms shipments. Literally, within months, Russian tanks had rolled down to Tskhinvali, 30 miles from the capital, where they remain today. (You may remember a little war in the Caucasus. That is what it was over.)

4. Russia's war on Chechnya has been scorched earth. Lebed tried to make peace and wanted to give Chechnya to the Chechens. He was a very respected General in Russia and a competitor to Vladimir Putin. Lebed died in a helicopter crash in Siberia.

The consensus in Tbilisi was that nobody liked the Chechens because they attack and kill people no matter what. "They are crazy." The mountain people of the Caucasus have been making war for at least 15,000 years, taking prisoners, enslaving them to work up in the mountains.

That Chechnya is muslim today almost doesn't matter. The ideology does support their war. That with the ethnic (genotype and phenotype) differences. But what is going on in this part of the world is much more like out Indian wars of the 18th century than it is like our war on Al Qaeda.

By the way, in 2002 the religion that had the greatest number of suicide bombers was not islam, but buddhism. Buddhists in Sri Lanka had used this strategy quite effectively and since it was an effective war-making method, it was continued.

It depends what you count, but excluding IEDs I think this is still true.

I'm curious if the Chechen "Black Widows" are like male muslim Jihadists who talk about being "fearless warriors" but when it comes down to it they coerce others into doing their dastardly deeds!!

So I guess it is simply out of the question for Russia to just give them their land? Is it worth not changing their maps to deal with a separatist ethnicity? The only reason to hold on to Chechnya is to hold on to the dream of restored Empire. That is exactly what Putin wants, reform the Evil Empire with himself placed as Comrade Tsar. These terrorist acts will likely be used not only as a pretext to further subdue Chechnya, but to limit the freedoms of Russians and other ethnicities as well.

No, it's bigger than that. Chechnya (and Georgia) are all about oil. And oil revenue is the savior of the Russian Federation. When Putin took power in 2000, the national budget of Russia was roughly that of New York City, this for a country in which all of the USA (including Alaska) and all of Europe can rattle around in with enough room left over for another USA. (13 time zones - it's a huge nation.)

For Russia to survive and prosper over the next 100 years it needs to control as much oil as possible. Currently, the only exit for central Asian oil that does not pay toll to Russia is the pipeline through Georgia from the Caspian.

Chechnya sits squarely on the land between Russia and Georgia. And Georgia is the gateway to Iran and Iraq by road. Remember that Iran and Iraq are to Russia what Mexico is to us in terms of distance.

My belief is that Russia has been playing "Heads we win, Tails you lose." in Central Asia and the Middle East. If they can get the idiots who run those nations (like Saddam and Iran's president Ah'man-idiot-nejad) to provoke the USA into conquering those nations, they will weaken us financially. In addition, the Kremlin will assume that we will eventually pull out leaving a well softened-up nation behind us, ripe for the picking. If we don't attack, then they will have a pretext for doing it themselves to save the rest of the world from harm.

But in the end, it's all about national income and survival. Russia is looking at a wealthy, resurgent China in bed with the USA superpower. Russia is still poor and they have huge amounts of land and resources that China needs. So Russia must strengthen itself by doing what must be done to get its income back up.

Violent extremism is the blowback from state sponsored violence. Having a world leader like Obama claim he opposes violent extremism is ludicrous since he is the cause of it. Why people can't understand that soldiers and bombs in state sponsored militaries are no different from suicide bombers or roadside bombs. Death and destruction caused by the worlds militaries are the catalyst for extremism. The oppression of indigenous people and control of natural resources by multinational corporations and Governments create the hatred of the established order and deservingly so. One thousand years of theft and piracy by the elites have created a world of hopelessness and despair for billions of people. The World Bank and United Nations are fronts for the elites and leave no hope for the people. As long as there is no justice for the people there will be no peace and promises to end terrorism are baseless. All attempts to end injustice by committing more injustice will fail. Without justice there will be no peace. The desire for revenge created the suicide bombers not some petty hatred of humanity. It's simple math - we kill you, you kill us, we kill you, you kill us, around and round it goes. Humanity is blinded by it's own selfishness. For once I would like to see someone show an understanding of why these things happen. All I ever see is a bunch of idiots claiming they know, it's those murderous Muslims or terrorist that hate people for being people. These idiots need to look into the history of their own nations and the crimes it has committed in the name of national interests. Try asking what crimes the CIA or MI6 or KGB, etc. have been committing for the past fifty years. Try asking what happens to the poor countries that have accepted help from the world bank. Americans have been spoiled by their government, keeping the reality of their existence, the raping of the rest of the worlds resources, from being their responsibility. We rape, torture and steal what we need from the rest of humanity and act like capitalism is the way and socialism is an abomination. We have taught the people around the world that might makes right, until they use might (violence) to make their point, then we cry like babies, that they are insane evil doers. Americans are hypocrites. Crushing lands with our might and whining like children when we experience blowback.

I hope the Russians destroy these scumbags.. The Muslims of the world should be condemning this attack but I haven't heard a peep yet..The Southern border is porous all to hell in the US.. Terrorists will attack again in the US and the blood will be on Pelosi's hands since she voted against building a wall. The terrorists again are muslim what's new 8)

it's a bad ideal for Russia to host the Olympic Games in 2012. Too many crazy women.

true, the more control, the more; hate, the more dark inhearted , the more insensitive etc..we live in a day and age of social turmoil through out the planet..the last great: Acts of Defiance will Not go away..people are NOT stupid, they don't like being treated that way..it's so strange; the one's who the most wealth and power..manipulate the masses, like their stupid and dispose of them Like; Trash...making Violent Statements such as bombing the innocents is Wrong, War is wrong, manipulating to turmoil is Wrong..there are SO Many Wrongs in all directions..it gets to the point; some People Cannot Handle it Anymore...my tearful condolences to the innocents........

These terrorist are relentless! Next thing you know they will use kids!!

Thank you, Mr. Toradze. You've given the clearest and most expert comments so far. I am grateful for your analysis.

The only thing I knew about Chechnya was its geography and assumed it was a conduit for exporting oil. Applying what I know about Georgians and Chechnya's religious makeup, I presumed the cultural differences are due to the locals not being remotely ethnically Russian. I also presume Stalin's expansion of Russian hegemony into the republics brought a large number of ethnic Russians in the region, which complicates relations today. Are the ethnic Russians still a sort of managerial/ruling class?

The issue in Chechnya is no one is really managing/ruling anything.

Buddhists in Sri Lanka had used this strategy quite effectively and since it was an effective war-making method, it was continued.

John, astute comments about Russia. But your wrong about Sri Lanka. It was the ethnic Tamils, who practice Hinduism that started the suicide bombings, who invented the suicide vest, and a female suicide bombers, one of whom killed Rajiv Gandhi. Not the Singhalese buddhists.

Of course President Obama would condemn these attacks. All peaceful individuals condemn violence.

Why is his opinion asked on such a matter-of-fact subject?

My guess, the Russians will make every other country look like they were playing tiddlywinks in regards to handling terrorist. They will extract vengeance. No Guantanamo Bay, no prison time, just a hacksaw or wood chipper.

Or one of Rootin' Tootin' Putin's (literally) killer salads!!

^Gven- I am well aware of how your health care system works. I've met many Russians, my friends wife is Russian. The economy in the former Soviet Union has been waning essentially since it's inception. This is the primary cause of the "Russian Wives" immigration wave The United States had in the mid to late 90's, and the very reason I can get on the internet today and order a Russian bride for about a thousand dollars cash.

My comment was in no way to be misconstrued as a personal attack on the motherland. Considering that my comment involved "Communism" and Russia is no longer considered to be such, it actually didn't even apply to you.

Just another example of why these radical Muslim have to be destroyed every single one of them. The US and Russia need to form an alliance, gang up on these lunatics and wipe them off the face of the earth once and for all.

Muslims by in large are peaceful people, but their radical elements will keep pushing until Mosques start getting targeted around the world. Mecca and Medina are vulnerable. I wonder if it is the desire of the terrorists to get their kinsmen wiped out by an angry world?

Do you really believe Russia will keep the treaty with Obama? Do you believe in fairytales?

Oh right, I'm sure we should be continuing to crank out nuclear missiles? To what end?

Really now - because Obama was behind this, it's a fairy tale. Had it been Bush, you would have been happy about it.

Grow. Up.

You never know who's sitting next to you on the subway. Is it the Grim Reaper? For what it's worth, I hope he doesn't have his arm around your shoulder.

Chechens don't care about the missile treaty. If anything, they would be more than happy to promote any divisive issue within the Kremlin. If I was a separatist in Russian territory, I would want everything possible to go against the Russian national interest.

The Russian government and military themselves aren't completely happy with the new arms reduction talks,* but not because a 25% reduction in warheads changes their security situation. The main issue is over removal of ABM systems from Eastern Europe. Since Russian nukes are concentrated elsewhere in the country, nothing in the reduction talks directly relates to Chechnya.

The Chechens are like all people, not particularly fond of being treated like second class citizens. There's no reason to overthink what's going on.

*The Russian navy protested last Wednesday in the form of a test of a submarine launched intermediate range ballistic missile. The message backfired when the test failed and the rocket malfunctioned, but the timing of the test was important.

I'm not so sure this would affect the missile treaty.

Along with the many terrorists from that region, Chechen rebels send snipers over to Afghanistan. I don't see the White House expressing condemnation of Russia's retaliation.

At this point I trust the Russians more than the Americans. The Russians have not been the ones engaged in nation building and drumming up wars.

The missile defense shield is a waste of time and money. Let the Europeans build their own defense systems, we have to worry about our obligations here.

(#2.6) "The missile defense shield is a waste of time and money."

A truer statement is that the missile defense shield has no military function. It is purely diplomatic. In the wake of the Cold War, the ABMs will never be called into service to intercept Russian missiles. They are chips on a bargaining table and are used for trade in negotiating with our allies.

The problem is, they effectively represent an endorsement. By having ABM systems in Eastern Europe, the US seems to say "Europe is our BFF" at the exclusion of Russia. We lose an edge by forfeiting the missiles as bargaining collateral and alienate many allies if we withdraw them. In the balance of foreign policy, offending Russia is less costly than the alternative. It does not, however, mean we actually want to alienate Russia.

Russia understands this. They understood this in 1962. If you read an account of the Cuban Missile Crisis, you'll see that the US discreetly withdrew Jupiter missiles from Turkey. The Soviets got to publish it in Pravda, but the facts were not boasted over in speeches to the Politburo or before the UN General Assembly. The news as reported by the State department led Americans to believe withdrawal of the missiles was unrelated - for those who actually even noticed.

Russia could accept the status quo and tolerate the ABMs on the premise that they are in place to protect against an Iranian missile launch. Russia has the ability to give us a pass on this (like they have numerous times in the past). The fact that they are making a fuss now is an indicator they are using their own diplomatic chips to optimize the benefit of arms talks in other areas.

The important thing to note is that, regardless of what some hawks will have us believe, removal or maintenance of the missile shield does not alter our security situation. I don't know if I can be as generous as Bill M NY, though. I don't trust anyone more than my own country, even if I am not particularly hostile toward the rest of the world.

I was trying to be facetious and started a big argument. Sorry

Optomyst,

It is hard to tell what someone means sometimes in writting, like when they are being facetious or cynical and sarcastic. My comment was from the fact that I don't trust the Russians to really keep the treaty with the U.S. I knew before Obama was elected that he wanted to disarm us and Russia. I found Obama to be a dangerous choice for America. He cannot make the world disarm themselves, and if we do, then we become more vulnerable. That is why I replied to your comment as I did, sorry. It wasn't you, just my distrust in treaties.

At this point I trust the Russians more than the Americans.

The Russians are some of the most cold-blooded, heartless and conniving people on this planet. I would rather trust a snake. If you dont believe me ask any Russian / Soviet immigrant.

Well, we're not going to disarm if they don't forty-five. We're also not just going to take their word for it. It's a mutual agreement that will have to be carried out in tandem, or not at all. It's better for the world in general, especially considering our attitude regarding new states acquiring nuclear arsenals. Also, every president since Reagan has attempted to disarm and get Russia to follow suit, it's pretty much been standard US policy. Bush signed a few of these himself I believe.

willynilly lol a little harsh 8( There are bad and good people in very race and culture get over it. The real talk should be about how again the Muslim faith rears its ugly head and kills innocent people just going about there daily lives.

Captain, tell me what your thoughts are on the following idea I've had for a few years. I've always admired your take on things.

I don't believe nuclear arsenals of 2,000 warheads assure mutual destruction the way the many thousands of warheads did before START-1. They merely mean an unacceptable loss of hegemony and carry no guarantee of success for either a first or retaliatory strike. The factors preventing nuclear war today are not threats of complete annihilation, but fear of financial ruin and loss of global standing.

Russia currently has the inferior position and has lived with the fact since the mid 1980s. We can fairly rely on the fact that most nuclear states will not use their weapons.*

The only thing that will change the balance is to begin increasing the number of arms. As long as reduction doesn't fall below a level where economic deterrent no longer satisfies the old role of mutually assured destruction, nothing changes in our security interest. Even if we unillaterally reduce arms by 25%, nothing actually changes. Of course, we won't reduce them unillaterally. But even if we did, we'd never actually find our security in jeopardy as long as we kept a minimum number of warheads in play.

If there's no tangible benefit to keeping 2,000 warheads when, say, 500 will do, what's the justification for undertaking the cost of security and maintenance and underwriting the risk of accident? When our global standing is not diminished by reduction, and indeed could improve, and no benefit is to be had by maintaing the present levels, what is the problem with reduction?

I'm the last person who would argue with you. I'm trying to vet my opinion with smart people. Let me know what you think, if you have time.

If not, it's good to see you.

*I refer to the US, Russia, China, UK, and France. Israel, India, and Pakistan are maybes. North Korea is the most volatile in the group.

Steech - good question. Simple answer, public perception. The problems of living in a free Democracy is, you have to keep people happy. Russia, even today's Russia, could o what it wants with it's weapons and be fairly assured that it's citizens will not only swallow, but vigorously support it's agenda. That mentality didn't just evaporate with the Cold War.

In America you can barely retire a 40 year old fleet of planes without some calling you weak on defense. I believe military spending today exceeds both in amount (adjusted even for inflation) and percentage of GDP what it cost during the Cold War.

And your right, barring some new missile defense system we could reduce our Nuclear Arms by 80% and still guarantee complete destruction, but I believe anyone in public office who actively suggested such a thing, even with threat analysis and cost benefit information on their side, would be committing career suicide.

"The problem of living in a free Democracy is, you have to keep people happy. Russia, even today's Russia, could do what it wants with its weapons and be fairly assured that its citizens will not only swallow, but vigorously support its agenda.

"...I believe anyone in public office who actively suggested (drastic arms reduction), even with threat analysis and cost benefit information on their side, would be committing career suicide."

I agree completely. The first part reminds me of something I've heard before. So does the second, actually (though that's pretty much common sense). I recently read Julian Zelizer's Arsenal of Democracy and recall the same points being made. Were you influenced by that book, by any chance?

Radical Muslims, including the Sunni's in Russia are "doing" their job. They want to take over the entire population with their religion, Islam/Muslim, by violence. The Koran doesn't preach violence, but peace.

This is Peace? The US Intelligence must know of thousands of these infiltrators into our country. Then there are those who we don't know about.

The Muslim Community any place in the world has NEVER come out and denounced the hatred/killings/violence for the Western World and a World with Muslim Terrorist/Extremist beliefs.

This is their downfall. This would ease the tensions between countries.

If they want to see 72 virgins in heaven as Allah says, that's fine. What do the women suicide bombers get in return?

The Extreme Muslims/Islamists must be punished and not handled like regular store robbery thieves. Miranda Rights; just a Military Tribunal Court.

Why haven't we heard from Pres. Obama on shaming these people?

Hawaii - LIES, and demonstrably false ones at that. Hell even Iran issued a declaration following 9/11.

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

Here's a few more. Also you've obviously never heard of CAIR? You should probably look that up. People will say just about anything online. Sorry for intruding with a little reality.

Terrorism? nah, it was an accident I'm sure. Sometimes people just explode for no reason and take out 35 people near them. I'm sure that was what happened. There's no way it could have had anything to do with a peaceful religion.

The article states that it was women in both blasts. Maybe, just maybe their breast implants exploded???

Maybe people still don't understand the difference between a follower and an extremist. People here are sarcastically using "Religion of Peace" to say that this group of extremist symbolize the entire religion of Islam, which has 1.7 billion followers. To bad the media doesn't do reports on thanking Muslims for Algebra and Chemistry or the daily good deeds these 1.7 billion people do. They just have to report the wrong that some 0.000000001 %extremists do in order to give the blind their views on this religion.

Bebop,

"To bad the media doesn't do reports on thanking Muslims for Algebra and Chemistry or the daily good deeds these 1.7 billion people do."

This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on the vine. I'll have to check my Koran and find the verses that mention going out, killing infidels, and advancing the study of algebra and chemistry.

Todd my man, I was on my computer last night also, and when the headline first popped up, there was no mention of a suicide bomber. It just said here was 2 blasts. So to make a statement after a story has been updated is disingenuous to the person commenting on the story. Hindsight is always 100%.
I read Sam-1105479's statement last night, and the story was till lacking details.
There are more details this morning, and I bet you have done the same on other stories.
It has happened to all of us.
I agree with you that Islam is a rigid, unbending, intolerant religion. There are not enough Islamic leaders condemning these acts. That speaks volumes.

It was terrorism alright....and it's just going to get worse and worse...truly frightening...ALL the governments need to consolidate on this matter to put an end to it. We have approx.4 other countries helping us fight these people and the war on terrorism!! They want US to 'fix' it but don't want to help do so!

You hope it wasnt terrorism? What else could it possibly be, a family outing at the park? If these morons like bombs so much, a few well placed,low yield of the "N type" dropped on their heads,should make them ecstatic.

This is more a personal problem between Chechnya and Russia than part of the larger "War on Terror". They've been fighting each other for centuries, and most recently since the late 80's early 90's. Chechnya no longer has the ability to wage the conventional war that lasted over a decade, so they've resorted to a more insurgent type of role. It's not really about religion, they don't want to make the Russians Muslim, they want them removed completely from what they consider Chechen land, and probably a bit of revenge for the losses they suffered. And they just genuinely don't like one another.

Sorry Sam, I wasn't commenting on his statement as much as I was just trying to be a smart ass. That said, Russia has had multiple terrorist attacks in the past, and two seperate explosions on the subway system 40 minutes apart resulting in that much death and destruction could not be unintentional. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck.......

We are really fortunate, because I think if they wanted to hit us like that, I think they could.
How many people shop in a mall at Christmas. That is an easy target, with minimal security.
Or any large event where people congregate. The only explanation is they want something spectacular on the lines of 911. The only thing I think could equal that is a nuclear event. I do pray I'm wrong.
Also we do have some of Al Qaida engaged in Afghanistan and we are targeting them in Pakistan. Is it enough, I hope so. This terrorism thing is not a passing idea. It is with us to stay. It's not like some day we are going to wake up and terrorism will be a thing of the past. Unfortunately it is going to be a way of life for us. 911 changed everything.

Fred,

I normally disagree with everything you say. But in the last couple of days, you've made some very well thought out comments.

The kinder, gentler, Fred G. from N.C.

I doubt that Russia is as patient and unassuming as you are Fred.

Unassuming my a$$, I've got my suspicions which are being confirmed, I just thought it might be wise to wait until more information came in before launching into an attack on RADICAL MUSLIM TERRORISTS!! Since it's increasingly likely the source is Islamic , I hope this convinces Russia to rethink appeasing Aquavelvajihad in Iran!!

Aquavelvajihad......HA!

can anyone think of a muslim feud which 'hasnt' been going on forever? Their whole religion was started to validate Mohammeds feuds.

Well, they haven't always been Muslim,and the Russians certainly aren't. It's not a religious feud, it's a cultural war.

"May god protect the survivors and the children and loved ones of those who did not.May god create a palsy apon the Bomb maker, so the suffering of his soul is short lived !"

YOU MUST HAVE SKIPPED THE PART WHERE IT SAID THEY WERE SUICIDE BOMBERS. HARD TO CREATE A PALSY ON SOMEONE WHO IS ALREADY DEAD.

God, and or "Gods" are the reason for all of this insanity.

I don't think the bomb makers are dead. Just the stupid victims that they talked into using them.

Nevermind, the claim of a third bomb was retracted.

A third bomb? With all the bombing bombing and killing killing killing, the numbers game is verging on madness, too.

When someone refers to Islam as that "religion of peace", they are usually being sarcastic because most people know that it is anything but a peaceful religion. Still, it is not politically correct to speak the truth, so most people will just tongue in cheek refer to it as that religion of peace. So, I too fear that the religion of peace has struck again...

Its a mis-translation-- Islam believes in 'piece'. Blow up this piece. Blow up that piece. Blow up whatever piece doesnt follow Islam...

I seriously doubt you've ever read the Qur'an. If you had you'd at least know how to spell it.

If any of you researched the Muslim religion, you'd note that less than 1% of them are terrorists. Or do you also think every American is a dope head who likes to commit violent crimes?

Csh101, I have read enough, and I do know the spelling, but I chose to write it the other way, which is correct too. I read where Muslims are told it is okay to lie, not keeping signed treaties with "infidels". I read where it describes boiling unbelievers and cutting off their hands and feet among other disgusting descriptions.

Muslim men are allowed and encouraged to be pedophiles. Following their Mohammad who took a six year old for a wife and consummated their relationship at nine years old. Men are taught it is okay to pleasure themselves with an infant or toddler, called "thighing".

I don't need to read much more about Islam, I can't stomach it. You call Mohammad a "Holy man", I call him a deceiver and a sick pedophile, criminal.

The Bible says, that you know a tree by its fruit, whether it is good or bad. The fruit of Islam is evil. They love only themselves and even that is not true, because they prey upon the women and children of their own religion. It is a religion of men, for men and their sexual perversions.

They can practice denying themselves food, but do not deny themselves the right to set their wifes on fire. Truly the fires in hell are reserved for such treacherous men of Islam.

http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Islams_Terrorist_Dogma_in_Muhammads_Own_Words.Islam

I remember an interview barbara walters did with the ''king'' of saudi arabia and asked him about a verse in the''holy koran'' ''lie in waiting to kill the christians and the jews''. the reason she questioned , it was in elementry textbooks being distributed by our ''friends'' the saudi govt.

It's the moment when anger surges, it's in all of us, whether acted out or not. All people are war and 'terrorism' like the sand jockeys or the machete using nigerians. Some restrain themselves, some can't, or won't.

Many are the quietly sociopathic, those who feel disdainful of of something as rude and inconvenient as explosives. You never know for sure who is sitting next to you.

We can blame whoever we want. Besides, the Chechens take credit for it. The reds (they still are, you know) if provoked further will simply wreck the place from end to end and drive those who live there into Siberia. And the Chechens will only have themselves to blame.

CsH101: "If any of you researched the Muslim religion, you'd note that less than 1% of them are terrorists."

And the other 99% are doing nothing about it.

Potentially because they practice their peaceful religion? Or maybe. Just maybe. The terrorists are the ones with the guns and the will to use them?

WHY DIDN'T THE JEWS FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE NAZI'S??????

that I know some pretty peaceful Muslims right here in NY whose only wish is to live peacefully and raise their children to be good people.

The people you describe are not the ones wreaking havoc around the world. The vast majority of Muslim terrorists are recruited from Muslim majority countries or regions.

Educated Muslims are the ones most likely to resist the tentacles of fundamentalism. A few exceptions exist (the nut at Fort Hood) but in that case, people who could have stopped him turned a blind eye to the threat.

WHY DIDN'T THE JEWS FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE NAZI'S??????

The ones who could did - in the forests of Russia, the Warsaw ghetto, fighting along side the Serbian resistance, etc.

Elderly people and children were over half the Jewish victims of the Holocaust. Many tried to flee or hide, but that was the most they could do. How many modern armies (outside of sub-Saharan Africa) use children as fighters?

1% are terrorist,99% support them!!!

There are radicals in every religion. The U.S. has witnessed homegrown varieties. Targetting one group only is unfair to the majority who are innocent bystanders.

realist-1696772
Listen, I don't know anything about the Koran or what Muslims are about. I do know, however, that I know some pretty peaceful Muslims right here in NY whose only wish is to live peacefully and raise their children to be good people. And before you accuse me of being a Muslim myself, I'm not. I'm a New York conservative Jew whose love for Israel, Israelis, and Jews in general has no boundaries.BTW, I'm also a republican.

You can't make general statements about a group of people. It isn't fair, moral, or ethical.

I agree--my family has Cherokee blood and it amazes and sometimes amuses me to hear generalized statements and beliefs about groups...we are stereotyped as "savages", lazy alcoholics. Of course that is true for some people in virtually any race...But you're right, it isn't fair to lump all people of a race together...

Anne,

It is not lumping a race together. It is lumping a religious teaching to the people who say they believe in it. So many want to deny what Islam teaches. If one does not want to research it out by reading the Quran for themselves then go to YouTube and watch what is out there. I watched a Muslim teaching that it is okay to take a child as a wife and that is what he said, Mohammad did too. Like I already wrote, Mohammad took a six year old as his wife and had sex with her at nine years old. Isn't that pedophilia and child abuse?

Isn't anyone concerned about all the women trapped in Islamic abuse? Aren't we tired of hearing about a muslim girl getting stoned to death or beaten for being a rape victim or talking to a boy. It is not just a few radicals, it is their teaching. Honor killings of their own children is what they believe, sharia law is what they believe, not just the radicals.

Anne, sorry if it seems like I am attacking you, I'm not. You are right, one should not stereotype a race or group. The point I was trying to make it that, it is not stereotyping to point out how dangerous Islam really is and not to sweep it under the rug thinking that only the radicals believe in Sharia law. Mohammad taught that Islam is the only true religion and it is their goal to take over the world and if others (infidels) do not convert, then it is pleasing to Allah to kill them.

Right now in America, some public schools are teaching grade school kids Islamic prayers and exposing them to Islamic ways and teachings. Now why is that, when we are not even allowed to pray in school or talk about God or have Christmas songs? It may seem like I am just angry, but things are getting serious. We need to stop trying to be politically correct and tell the truth.

I agree with you 110%...My children go to public school and it is really sad that they can't pray to "our" God but can be taught and encouraged to pray to allah...The public school my boys attend "says" they're tolerant of all children, but I see a different picture. And you're right. We need to simply tell the truth as we see it rather than trying to sugarcoat many of the things we're seeing. The church I attend recently showed a film documentary about Islamic Jihad and their beliefs about America...From what the film taught, Jihadists would be more than happy to see Americans (and others who disagree with their teachings) completely wiped off the face of the planet.

...

It's not so much the religion so much as it's the social beliefs of the area and the time.

Well yet another scandal involving a priest and boys happened recently. I guess by your logic all catholics are Pedo's too...

Also, when kids are being taught these prayers, they're being exposed to God in Schools. You realize we believe in the same God right?

Thanks Anne.

And CsH101, If you are Muslim, your god is Allah and Allah is not Yahweh. Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW4EDy7rxqI If all you do is read, listen and study what you already agree with, then you don't know what I am talking about.

And as far as the Catholic priests go, it is a sin and they know it. It is not condoned like what Mohammad did and followers still do.

Also, any prayers being done in American schools have to be a private school. Public schools are not allowed to, except the politically correct puppets who think they are teaching tolorance exposing kids to Islam.

You know I do not believe for a second that any public school in America encourages it's students to pray to Allah. I'm going to go ahead and call bull@!$%# on that. My stepfather is a teacher/principal and my mom substitutes, I like to think I have a pretty good idea of what goes on in public schools, and that definitely ain't it.

And actually I'm fairly certain that not only does Islam consider their God to be the Christian and Jewish one, but they also accept many of the prophets from those other religions as genuine. Jeeze have you ever spoken to an actual Muslim before? Yea, anything on Youtube must be factually accurate...

I did not say every school in America, but it is happening in some, a few okay. I've read the documents, thank you.

And yes Muslims 'do' believe Allah is the God of the Jews but they are wrong.

You must be afraid to expose yourself to anything but your own opinion. Go ahead and click the YouTube video and after watching it, then tell me how Allah can also by Yahweh.

I've read the documents

Then you will have no problem providing them.

And yes Muslims 'do' believe Allah is the God of the Jews but they are wrong.

Or you are. Both of you point to books of dubious provenance as proof.

I mean I don't know if the Pope can be considered a better source than youtube, but even he has said it. We worship the same God. Muslims don't believe Jesus is the son, but more of a messenger of God. The Muslim faith is loosely based off the Jewish faith. The Jews planned to wipe the Muslims out during Mohammed's lifetime. Which is why they had to run for their lives and hide during the "Hijra" to the African city of Axum. They also believe the angel Gabriel told him to write the Quran.

And no, I'm not Muslim by the way. I have an education, I've never driven a truck, and I've never chewed tobacco. Oh and I don't bother watching Glenn Beck (Or Rachael Maddow for that matter).

I'm also not so sure schools are making kids pray to Allah. They may be taught these prayers but conversion is no.

Believe it or not, at one time Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived together in relative peace. Any violence or fighting back then was common in all the religions. And Mohammed believed in people being equal. Including women. He made sure women were better taken care of than they were before.

If you watched the video you would have to wonder how anyone could think that Allah is the God of the Bible. The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob(all Jews) loved the Jews.. Allah's teachings say, kill the Jews and Christians. Nothing about Allah or his character is anything like God Almighty. Allah is a false god derived from the pagan moon god 400 years before Mohammad. How could Mohammad be the one who introduced Allah and the pagan ceremonies of the moon god that was practice long before Mohammad was born and is still in practice today, no different from the pagan moon god worship. And yes I am parroting the video that you don't want to watch or are refusing to.

Also, about the information on Islam's introduction into some public schools, can just be found on the internet by typing in something like; Public schools embrace Islam. I don't think I should have to spoon feed you truth. Be inquisitive enough to search for yourself.

it is really sad that they can't pray to "our" God but can be taught and encouraged to pray to allah...The public school my boys attend "says" they're tolerant of all children, but I see a different picture. And you're right. We need to simply tell the truth as we see it

Please read what I said--I said they CAN be. Please don't presume that I know nothing about public schools..I am an elementary school teacher and I have three cousins who are school principals and I know plenty about the public schools of my county and state....Please don't patronize me or my statements.

Capt Tripps
You know I do not believe for a second that any public school in America encourages it's students to pray to Allah. I'm going to go ahead and call bull@!$%# on that. My stepfather is a teacher/principal and my mom substitutes, I like to think I have a pretty good idea of what goes on in public schools, and that definitely ain't it.

it is really sad that they can't pray to "our" God but can be taught and encouraged to pray to allah...The public school my boys attend "says" they're tolerant of all children, but I see a different picture. And you're right. We need to simply tell the truth as we see it

Please read what I said--I said they CAN be. Please don't presume that I know nothing about public schools..I am an elementary school teacher and I have three cousins who are school principals and I know plenty about the public schools of my county and state....Please don't patronize me or my statements.

Now you're getting so off key I think I'll quit arguing with you since it will do no good.

Also, about the information on Islam's introduction into some public schools, can just be found on the internet by typing in something like; Public schools embrace Islam. I don't think I should have to spoon feed you truth. Be inquisitive enough to search for yourself.

You can also type in Jesus was an astronaut and get results on that as well. I'm not gonna research it since I can tell all I'll turn up would be blogs about who knows what. Show me something from ABC, NBC, PBS, CBS, FOX, whatever other than low budget nothing.

Seriously. Point me to one instance where children were indoctrinated into saying Muslim prayers. I'd be very interested to see that, because as far as I know, they CAN'T. It's just as much a violation of the Constitution as school sponsored Bible studies. So either you have proof of this happening, you're making it up completely, or you're throwing out irrational hypotheticals with no basis in fact or actual events.

And your seriously showing a willful blind spot if you're going to ignore the bloody history between Christianity and the Jewish people.

Nothing mean spirited about it. It's more of something to put things into perspective. The Jews could have fought back, but the Nazi's had superior fire power and the will to use it. Exactly like the modern day muslims who are caught up by extremists. Civilians who are being slaughtered just like everyone else when caught up in the blasts from the better armed terrorists.

I'm also not faulting the Jews. People blame Muslims for not being more pro active in fighting. Yet they don't fault the Jews for the reason you stated, even though it's a near identical deal. The regular muslims are targets if they're seen as not with the terrorists.

Look at the Farce election in Iran. Where were the gun shots from the civilians? Where were their guns? Could it be they're not allowed to have them? Or could it be because they are firm believers in peace?

I don't blame them for ignoring either. Because if they so much as say anything, they and their families will be targeted. I'm sorry, these people aren't as able to fight back as you would like to think. Unlike the terrorists, the people feel like they have something to lose in dying, or having to see their family die.

Seriously. Point me to one instance where children were indoctrinated into saying Muslim prayers.

they're many articles if you look. this is only one of them. Michigan,Florida and New Mexico if I'm not mistaken

The Complaint

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in California has ruled against a group of Christian parents who objected to the teaching of Islam, which included students saying Islamic phrases which are used in prayers and taking on Muslim names in role playing exercises.

The case was brought to the 9th Circuit by the Thomas More Law Center which has now requested that the United States Supreme Court review the 9th Circuit's decison.

The Curriculum

Truth For Muslims has obtained some of the curriculum which seems to have been taught in California's Contra Costa County school district which led to the lawsuit. According to the curriculum, the school children role play being Muslims. There are various stages of the learning process with names such as "Caravan Days", "Oasis Days", "Surprises", and "Islamic Bowl" which is described as "a sort of World Series of Islamic knowledge".

The students say Islamic religious phrases in Arabic, take on Muslim names, and imagine being Muslims on a journey where they encounter various "surprises", including being physically attacked and encountering "jinn", which the curriculum calls Satan.

The curriculum states that "dressing as a Muslim and trying to be involved will increase your learning and enjoyment."

"As you portray Muslims" the text continues, "try using phrases in speech such as "inshaAllah" or "God willing." While the Arabic phrase, inshaallah, may seem like benign religious phase to many, it actually carries great theological significance within Islam.

http://www.truthformuslims.com/articles/marion_2006_08_islam_in_public_schools.htm

http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/5022016.html

That's what Casey Morris hopes to eliminate through his research project, the stereotypes the public has about Muslims.

Not only will he learn about the culture by wearing traditional Muslim clothing and praying five times a day,

but "Also going without pork for 30 days, that's going to be rough but we'll make do," said Morris.

Morris says he is prepared for the criticism that comes along with it

Well Realist, looks like we'll have to agree to disagree. You're stuck looking at the actual details, and I'm looking at hate filled killing with people unable to defend themselves.

You want these people to stand up for themselves, and these people want their families to be safe. They can either fight, and risk their loved ones being executed for it, or they can not fight and hope they're never in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm sorry, it's not like over here. Things over there are different. When you have something to lose it's not a god idea to pick a fight with someone who has nothing to lose.

Well let me see Charles the next one could be where you live is that reason enough to be a little concerned, these people will not just do it there, these people are everywhere .....

You do realize that Moscow is a very international city and there are thousands and thousands of foreigners who live here including many American and British? You may not think this matters because you're far away, but this is absolutely affecting my American family of 5 here in Moscow. Not to mention the poor Russians who have lost family members today. And *Richie* is right...it can happen anywhere!

Charles, Most of us reading about this do care and we feel sadness for the victims and their families... Tomorrow the folks in Moscow may be reading a similar story about something happening here.

@Patriotic American, its sad to see ignorant people, your comment is quite unPatriotic.

I don't know why everyone is so concerned with "safety, safety, safety, terrorism, terrorism, terrorism, omg it could happen here next!!!!!!!, etc." *DUN DUN DAAAAAA* To paraphrase the late great George Carlin: "TAKE A FRIGGEN CHANCE FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIVES!! What are you going to do? Play with yourself for another 30 years? Gonna read 'People' magazine and eat at Wendys until the end of time? Take a chance." If it happens, it happens...there's absolutely nothing you can do to prevent it. Your chances of being killed by a terrorist bomber are about the same as getting t-boned by a drunk driver or getting hit by lightning, maybe even less than that.

You don't know? It's morbid curiosity in it's purest form. I'm not the only one ever to admit experiencing this. It's like the popularity of high-wire, when they don't use nets.

Sadly, Muscovites are very dependent on their subway system to get anywhere in the town. The old Soviet systems were not very good at producing consumer goods, but they did put a priority on moving people around efficiently. Unlike here, they actually depend on the subway for work.

You do realize that Moscow is a very international city and there are thousands and thousands of foreigners who live here including many American and British?

I do, but even if it weren't, it wouldn't make this any less awful. My condolences to Moscow.

Russians are just trying to edge Chechnya into the War on Terror when they know damn well it's not a religious struggle but a war of territory and independence which has been going on for centuries. What the Chechens do with suicide bombers the Russians do with tanks and planes. This is NOT us vs Al Quaeda, it's more like Vietnam.

Well, actually anyone who is not a Muslim is considered an infidel and the religion of peace does not seem to have any problem with killing infidels...

@furious - 1695561 this is not true. Please show me in the Quran where you got this so called idea? If you cant prove it then don't spread ignorance around, please educate yourself.

I don’t want to turn this into a religious debate however, this is some information for those who lack the energy to research and/or are interested.

The "root" of the word "Islam" in Arabic is SALAMA which is the origin of the words Peace & / or Submission, a submission to God and peace to all humanity. It is, thus, no wonder why the salutation in Islam is: "Al-Salamu Alaikum or Peace on You."

Prophet Mohammad ordered his fellow Muslims to salute others Muslims or non-Muslims with peace when he said: "Peace Before Speech"

Proof from QURAN:

2:256 “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error”

5:32 "... if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.”

10:99 "If it had been thy Lord's Will, they would all have believed, all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!"

Some other verses you may want to take a look at:

2:190-193

16:125-128

4:135

42:40-43

41:34-35

60:7-8

"Some state that Islam is a religion of peace and moderation, "which is tolerant and encourages inter-religious dialogue for the benefit of humanity:" ₁ For example:

The Last President of the United States, George W. Bush, has emphasized that "Islam is Peace" on a number of occasions. ₂

A sizeable percentage of North Americans view Islam in a positive light. The Pew Research Center for the People & the Press conducted a public opinion poll among 1,500 adults on 2001-NOV-13 to 19. Americans, particularly "conservative Republicans" repudiated an unfavorable view of Islam. The survey found that:

The percentage of Americans with a favorable view of Muslims rose from 45% in May to 59% in November.

The percentage of conservative Republicans with a favorable view of Muslims rose from 35% to 64%!

John L. Esposito, one of America's foremost authorities and interpreters of Islam, rejects as far too simplistic the concept that Islam is a militant, expansionist, and rabidly anti-American religion. In his book: "The Islamic Threat: Myth or Reality," he demonstrates the diversity of the Islamic resurgence--and the mistakes our analysts make in assuming a hostile, monolithic Islam."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_war.htm

Bull @!$%#

http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Islams_Terrorist_Dogma_in_Muhammads_Own_Words.Islam

MKNOSMAN2k7. . . . .Do you understand that we do not care what your "verses" say. . .it is YOUR ACTIONS that we care about. Where is your outrage against your muslim "brothers and sisters?" Why do you not state beyond a shadow of a doubt that you detest and deplore these people and that your "book of peace" even condemns these people to hell? Do you realize George Bush said the things he said after 9-11 to keep peace in the United States? By the way do realize the retraint the American people showed on 'peaceful' Islam after the 9-11 attacks? Not a single Muslim death. So, please take your BS somewhere else. . .we are no longer buying your 'peaceful' religon line any longer. Hey, here is a question for you. . . .can you tell me how much money your peaceful religon or organizations affiliated to Islam gave to Hati or Chile after terrible earthquakes? How about after Hurricane Katrina? How about after the devastation in China? What evidence can you present (besides some lame dusty book of death) that you are a peaceful people? We will be waiting. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

You are a true idiot...You do care whatthe versus say because they prove you are just spreading hate instead of trying to educate your dumb redneck self and change things in this world. Juts go crawl into a whole of the bottle from which you came.

Jeff if we are concerned about actions then shouldn't we ban and close the catholic sex clubs throughout the world? Anyone read the Bible lately. Do you understand what Angels were really about. Didn't they destroy entire cities? How many quotes can we pull from the bible that show christianity as hateful as any other religion. There are too many christians and muslims to condem them all for the actions of a few. I am not a religious person however I accept and respect those who are. I can not associate global violence to Muslims any more than Christians and Jews.

You are right. Muslims are not the only violent people. I once had a baptist hit me with a bottle of whisky. I'm thankful it wasn't filled with nuts and bolts and did not explode.

Still not white . . .I have no idea what your dribble is about. I have a masters degree and live in a large metropolitan area in the North East. How can you assiciate my statement with "hate?" Just because I am tired of people who call themselves "peaceful" blowing themselves up and I ask a few simple questions to prove that they are or have done anything to promote peace I am filled with "hate?" Wow. . .judge much? I have grounds to judge because I am judging on ACTIONS. That gives me a basis to begin with. You on the other hand simply produce judgement from emotions. . . probably from watching too much Sesame Street or Oprah Winfrey (not sure they are both the same). And to answer your babbleing statement once again. . .no I DO NOT care what their book says and NO I DO NOT care. Killing innocent people is wrong or are you telling me that if "I just understood them more" then I might draw a different conclusion? Are you condoning the actions of the last 4 DECADES of muslim violence??? You sir make morons look educated.

Jeff - the ones who call themselves peaceful are not the ones blowing themselves up. Generally they're the ones dying in collateral damage because their nations HAVE condemned terrorist attacks and resist the doctrines of radical Islam. More Muslims are targeted and die in these attacks than Westerners. Your not even trying to understand the point being made - MKNOSMAN IS condemning the terrorists, using the words of his religion to show that they're acting way outside of Mohamed's teaching. And yet you still make asinine calls for rhetoric.

Capt Tripps. . .Do you read much? I asked for EXAMPLES. Not verses from a book. . .EXAMPLES. I am not speaking nor asking for "rhetoric" smart @ss I am asking for flesh and blood examples that Islam is a peacful relign and NO ONE has given me a single example! Since you brought up the subject I will ask you a few questions: 1. If Islam is so peaceful and as you say so many that are dying are other muslims then why do they not turn each other in? Why not police themselves? If the muslim world really cared about bringing the crazies to justice are you telling me that out of 1 billion muslims in the world not 1 will turn over Bin Laden? How about a monetary fund taken up by muslims all over the world to help support families killed by these cowards? I am simply asking for physical proof of some of even charitable organizations associated to this peaceful religon that help relieve the suffering of another human based not on race, religon, or gender. Again. . .I am still waiting. . . . . . . . .

http://www.freemuslims.org/

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

http://islam.about.com/cs/currentevents/a/9_11statements.htm

http://www.marcgopin.com/?p=864

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article924678.ece

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7758651.stm

they are really not hard to find. This article (http://www.gracecathedral.org/enrichment/reflections/ref_20050712.shtml) explains it beautifully and gives you a few examples of organizations and groups actively condemning terrorist attacks. It's amazing to me that anyone would not know that every time it happens these statements are issues. Are you living in a vacuum Jeff, that if it's not on the 6 o'clock news it doesn't exist? These organizations are not at fault when you don't get the message they are desperately trying to convey. I expect you to simply dismiss it, but maybe someone else will see and realize that the question you keep asking is moot. Muslim people are DYING daily because they denounce the radicalism that attempts to define their, and people like you would have their sacrifices be in vain.

Capt Tripps... have you noticed the level of evil, hate and lies these duel citizens are spreading on this post.? CsH101 and you seem apart from the mindless bull-dodo spreaders.the comfederates and iapac do not support The United States of America or the president. the drool oozing of their keypads is bad as flying planes into buildings.

capt tripps. . . .LOL nice "research!!!" Did you read any of the articles that you posted links too? Did you get a debating degree online? Are you kidding me. First of all I asked for evidence of how Muslims were HELPING OTHERS IN THE WORLD. Again I challange you to read my post. One of the websites you referenced was a site promoting understanding and tolerance of ISLAM. . . .sounds pretty self promoting to me. Secondly the most recent post you had was an article dating back to 2004 about a March in Europe. . . .okay, again where are the Muslim charities (that do not launder money for terroism), the charities to dig clean water wells in Africa, to promote education in the world, rebuilding third world countries, pushing for equality among the races and genders. . . . .again I ask for your proof and you bring me propaganda. Son. . . .Wiki has failed you! LOL you are pathetic!

Are you Muslim? If you are I am asking you for a defense of your faith. . . .here I am open ears ready to hear a nugget of wisdom. . . .again we are still her WATITING. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Uh, half of those organizations that aren't Muslim countries ARE organizations trying to help the world. I kinf of knew you wouldn't be satisfied and would further alter your original proposition to make my "research" (it's called google) meaningless.

I don't care anymore, stay ignorant, I've put it right in front of your face. You're like the definition of a crazy person, altering reality to fit your perceptions.

The only reality is that you FAILED to answer 1 small question I had. It was simple. . .give me an example of an Islamic organization that is doing good for humanity outside Islam itself?????? All of your examples were only filled with groups attempting to promote themselves or a better understanding of the religon. Nothing about relief, aid, promoting equality, or simply giving to their fellow man out of the joy for giving to their fellow man. The reality is you will not face reality. Again. . .we wait. . . . . . . . . . .

Interesting point, so its not about religion its about independence?

Yup, it is a nationalistic/ethnic problem that has been problematic for many years. The Chechen separatists have been seeking their own nation-state since before 1989. The Russian Empire claimed the land in 1785, and there has been intermittent violence since. Much of the problem lies in the Stalinist "Russification" policies, where Russians were relocated into the border regions to ensure that Moscow would have continued support. In most cases, these colonists developed into the elite cadre that ran the government, forcing the native people into subordinate roles. The collapse of the Soviet Union allowed the real fighting to flare up in 1994.

I agree cityguy. Russia doesn't have the "politically correct" bull $#it to contend with that we have here in the USA. Perpetrators will be dealt with harshly and swiftly for their terrorism over there if found out.

obama would like to sit down and have a chat with his Muslim buddies when that happens here.

Wait--you want to give President Obama the same sort of unchecked powers as Vladimir Putin? Remember--the guy who makes the accusations gets to say who is a terrorist. Its not like its listed on their drivers license.

I like the President a lot, and walked precincts during the election. But I am sure as HE!! not going to hand over that kind of power to him or any other president!

You don't need to hand it over...he'll just take it (courtesy of our "representatives" in DC).

Very pathetic comparison. Obama sat down for beer with a police officer and a college professor. Neither was a terrorist and it has never been suggested that beer be used with terrorism suspects.

I am always amazed that some have the ability to type without thinking. They just lay out insane ideas with no foundation in truth. Anything to put President Obama in a bad light or call out "liberals"

GFY ( of course I mean "good for you"...) Crazy Rooster Lollipop.

Yea, nuke a country full of people who didn't blow up your train because of the actions of a few. That's a reasonable, humane response....kill em all, God will know his own.

God I hope the people you would vote for never come into power.

Most Muslims are not terrorists. However, it seems that most terrorists are Muslim.

Thats you opinion, do you have any data or proof to back that up?

In fact, the British used that to describe the founding father of my country (USA) as terrorists.

Dropping bombs on defenseless cities of Hiroshima and Nagaski which contained innocent civilians, children, women... is that terrorism?

Look into the Wall Street Bombing: USA

Oklahoma City Bombing: USA

Extermination of Native Americans off their land and so forth...

The Conquistadors from Spain...

History is rich with acts of terrorism, but I must've missed they were all Muslim.

see also http://www.simplytaty.com/broadenpages/terrorism.htm

I am not condoning terrorism but only showing you that there is a larger world out there. My point also is to make that just because a person makes a claim that they are Muslim and they will terrorize doesnt mean the Quran supports this. Don't point at the religion and say its bad point at the person who is doing it. Another thing, why is it happing? What purpose do these people have in acting this way? The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagaski killed so many innocent people, why did we do it? The world isnt Black and White. On a side note WWI and WWII had the largest casualties in History, were these wars because of religion?

MKNOSMAN2K7,

You mentioned Hiroshima and Nagasaki twice in your post. Have you ever heard/read about Pearl Harbor, HI? Particularly what occurred on December 7, 1941? I don't believe that the dropping of the first atomic bomb on those cities had anything to do with religion and everything to do with ending what should have never been started in the first place. No it was not terrorism, but war. There is a difference.

Organized religion of any origin is simply a means to control the masses. It's been going on for longer than you or I have been alive, longer than our grandparents or great, great grandparents. It has been the reason for many atrocities in history, i.e. the crusades in medievel times. Not just Muslim but Christian as well.

It saddens me to know that there are more families now, whose loved one won't come home again ever. I am sorry for their loss.

MKNOSMAN2

Sir:

The "proof" is that, so far, nearly ALL of the homicide bombings that have taken place on the face of this earth have come from explosives taped to the bodies of "M.U.S.L.I.M.S"

Is that just a coincindence or is it enough proof??????????

Sorry Mknosman ..but You are WRONG......There has been MORE People KILLED in the Name of Religion than any other motive/war. Religious Writings and Teachings promote these things to come out of the people that they brainwash with their "Intepretations" of the "Word of God". Heck Just in the Old Testament, God himself, slaugthers all people that won't convert to and obey his word and will (which is why Christians wrote the New Testament w/the New Kinder/Forgiving God). Religion and its' teachers/followers use to be some of the most violent people just like the God they follow. Only lately, 100 yrs??, has the tone been turned down and turned around. This is WHY I don't follow or claim any religion.

I think someone posted earlier that it is actually a specific sect of Hindus who both invented and perpetrate the greatest number of body worn explosive suicide bombings.

They were pretty popular with the IRA as well, if I recall, for a time.

I cant agree more with you. Life is short, people should be working together productively as a whole to succeed; not destroying each other.

Sub human degenerates that set off bombs on subways or in any other public place should be made to pay dearly,however,I object to your referring to Americans as "I want everything free people".

Show me any ten countries combined, on this planet that are as generous as Americans in supplying food, medical aid,money,etc.to the rest of the world. Sure,we have a small group that "demands" everything free,but they are a very small part of America.

Unfortunately Americans really messed up when they elected a Socialist jerk who has always received everything free, but we will correct that mistake starting in November.

I would say they're hiding from the terrorist due to the terrorist having the guns and the will to use them...

Indeed they are, CsH101. And for the life of me, I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a member of a religion that they have to be scared to death of. I'm a Christian. And if I have something to gripe about or condemn about the Christian religion, I will do it. And I will do it loudly and I won't be afraid that my house will be set on fire tonight or my children will be gunned down on the playground tomorrow. Muslims do not have that luxury. And they should ask themselves one simple question. "Why don't we"?

Muslims live in America, what are they scared of here? Americans convert to Islam in this country, who's forcing them?

First you have to think about how much younger the religion is than yours, and look through your own religions history. There was a time when speaking out against the christian religion would have you burned alive at the stake.

Think about World War 2. Why didn't the Jews fight back against the Nazi's?

Then you have to think about how moving away or denouncing your own religion and going to another just isn't possible.

Also think about how the terrorist are actually holing people up in their own towns and not allowing them to leave. Look at the false election in Iran recently. Notice how none of the demonstrators had guns? It's not like here.

It's the religion of peace. The true Muslims practice that. The terrorist take advantage of it. It's like the Ghetto's here. The thugs know that they can kill anyone in there. If someone calls the police they kill them. The bad seeds seem to get all the attention.

It's not that much younger. Muslim has been around for a very long time. Yet it has not advanced barely a day since it's inception. Yes, there were dark times in our Christian religion. But we learned the error of the Crusades, etc. Islam has had plenty of time to do the same, yet they insist on staying in a stone age world. And why is it that we can now criticize our own religion? It's because we finally said "ENOUGH"! We stood up. Yes, many of died for it, but in the end we changed it. When will the Muslims do that? They live in fear of their own religion. You can make excuses for them all day long, but in the end that next subway bomb won't be set of by a Christian for a Christian cause. It will be by someone yelling " ALLAH AKBHAR"! And it will remain so until the "peaceful Muslims" stand up and say, " ENOUGH "!

Um they don't live in fear of their religion. They live in fear of the terrorists who have twisted and perverted the religion for their own goals.

CsH101 says:

" Think about World War 2. Why didn't the Jews fight back against the Nazi's?"

Are you kidding .... organized Jews in America declared war against Germany 6 years before WWII itself broke out, even while the Jews in Germany begged them not to. And they declared war again when Britain declared war on Germany.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9113/judeadeclareswar800px17gk9.jpg

Are you kidding me? Jews in Germany... And all throughout Europe... Still didn't fight back. Just like how the Muslims in the middle east take it from the terrorists while Muslims here constantly denounce them.

Would my two combat tours in Vietnam qualify for that, MKNOSMAN2k7? Semper Fi. And of course you have the power to change the world. Organize your fellow Muslims to go out on the streets and start condemning the terrorist activities. Talk to your fellow Muslim students and organize an anti-terrorist association and go to the news media and tell them you want to be heard? These are things you can do. Getting a little nervous now?

Thank you. Welcome Home.

Dose that mean you like russia a lot????.

Maybe we can learn something from the way they handle this. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of all this "Peaceful" religion BS. Someone posted earlier about it being a "man's" religion, they're exactly right. The Muslims doing this are cowards and so are they're "peaceful" brothers and sisters. Our country would be better off if we rounded them all up and sent them home, peaceful or not. While we're at it, load up all illegals and send them home, more jobs for US CITIZENS, less health care $ problems...many, many problems solved!

Sic...just like the Michigan militia.

Hey Bigfoot, while you were throwing out that bathwater, you didn't happen to see a baby in there anywhere, did you?