Who said, "international conspiracy to obstruct justice"? Yes, that is it exactly. What next? Who has the authority to prosecute these cases world-wide? It is impossible to believe that the Catholic Church, given the opportunity to purge itself of past and present filth, has instead, pulled the shutters and drapery even tighter. Stick your head in a dark place and don't move or make a sound and maybe it will all just go away...but we still see you...duh. God must be so embarrassed for you stupid f******. And yes, that word is in the Bible; and I always quote scripture when it applies to the situation; I bet God calls you that too behind your backs. When they see you sick f*******, who allowed all this abuse, the Holy Spirit looks at God and then at you stupid bishops and popes, and silently makes a slashing motion with his finger across His throat. I wouldn't want to be any of you idiots when you meet the Big Boys face to face.

These cases are SOOOOO freakin' old. I'm not minimizing it, but the Church IS more proactive. They AREN'T moving priests around. They aren't covering it up. I hate it when these old issues of "kids" who are now 50 years old are being trotted out as if they just happened! It's unfair. It's time to stop the abuse OF the Catholic Church!

You are sick. So if a child molester gets away with it for 30+ years, then it's ok? You are part of the problem...more stupid people who want to cover up the whole filthy dirty mess. You are lying to yourself; denying the truth and are as guilty as the perps. God forgives, but only when the sinner confesses the sin...did you miss that day of Sunday School? You want to keep your eyes on the golden altar, but your feet are sinking in deep @!$%#. Who would Jesus lie for? Well?

Kathy, I guess you can't read. I said, "I'M NOT MINIMIZING IT..." You can't read every third word and understand.

I am a Catholic Girl, who went to Catholic School and was raised to have a higher respect for our Pope. They are, as naive as it sounds, all that is good and holy in my heart. This is unacceptable, you do not send pedophiles to new playgrounds. Stop this, if we can not trust the Pope what is there left to believe in. I don't agree with all the Church hands down but when it comes to keeping Children Safe and hiding criminals I am loosing all respect to anyone who put my Religion and all children at risk of being harmed by those we are taught are men and woman of God! If the Pope has done what he is being accused of God Bless us All.

Loretta, you must not have been taught in a very good Catholic School!!! If you say: "if we cannot trust the Pope what is there left to believe in."

Uh, try Christ, God... The Holy Spirit. Perhaps no one pointed out to you that the Pope is human, and therefore, he is not perfect. BUT, furthermore, I don't think he knew about these cases.

And let me add, Loretta, that if THIS shakes your real faith, the devil has won. Don't you think the devil delights in the knowledge that people are slinging mud at Christ's True Church? Don't you think he loves it when he can lead people away through evil priests?

I refuse to believe these predators are more than a drop in the bucket of the priesthood. Priests are by and large, great men who give up their lives to serve. And let me tell you, that is harder than ever to do when you see the vitriol thrown at them!

They AREN'T moving priests around. They aren't covering it up.

Just like they weren't before. They wouldn't deceive you - just ask them. After all it is the Catholic church - one of the pillars of Christianity. The church would never lie, deceive, obfuscate, or in any other way be anything but forthright with the members. Otherwise it would be unchristian to sin.

Granted, it has been a number of years since I last completed reading the bible, but I don't remember the bible letting the clergy or any particular religion get a bye on pedophilia or homosexuality.

great men who give up their lives to serve.

So what is so great about them destroying the lives of others? How is that to be consider a service? Oh, that's right! It was "to serve" their deviant desires.

I'm not sure if you can credibly call yourself a thinker... Are you saying that all Catholic priests are pedophiles? Are you saying that these cases just happened? Are you saying the Catholic Church has not made changes to assure this never happens again?

Go through a list of any diocese and read the names of the Catholic priests serving their diocese. Point out the pedophiles. Please... you seem to know so much.

As much as I expected that the now-pope knew about the scandal, I am shocked that he sent a letter out to other diocese. He knew about these problems, as did many in the church, but they just shuffled people around for years until it blew up in their faces. How they are able to stand at a pulpit and preach is beyond me.

Also, on a side note, why is it that the priesthood seems to attract (or at least has attracted) so many pedophiles? How was this problem so widespread when no one knew about it, except those joining the priesthood?

Having done research on this topic, I can tell you that when most of these men joined the priesthood (in the 1940s-1950s), they thought it would cure them.

There were, however, many who knew they were gay, and they thought the priesthood would give them a place to "hide." No one would expect them to date or marry a woman! Unfortunately, their urges were too strong.

Many pedophiles, too, seek jobs where they can be near children: Teacher, minister, YOUTH minister, priest, janitor at a school...

Please don't insult me by telling me that he and his staff are surprised. It is about politics and job securities. The Pope is in his position, because of the politics and job securities... So please don't insult us by using the "misinterpretation" claim.

What a joke that so many consider these guys devinely inspired to the point of worshiping them as gods.

No one worships the Pope or any priest.

And the word is "divine."

Why can't non-believers spell?

Seems to me the Pope and all priests are, and should be, held to a higher standard, and they have let us down over and over.

Maybe if they joined the 21st century and let priests marry this pedophile stuff would stop, or at least diminish. In the meantime, pay up the hush money!

There is no god.

This religion stuff is all about CONTROL.

Wake up !!!!!!

Way to go Pope !!!! Cover crap up. That's the spirit! Or should I say, that's "in the spirit" of religion. B.S. !!!

Loretta,

"if we can not trust the Pope what is there left to believe in."

How about God/Allah. BELIEVE AND TRUST IN HIM, not some man who eats and poops like everyone else. That's one of the very problems of Christianity. They trust in somebody who needs to put deodorant on his smelly armpits, as a "holy" guy. How did this ordinary man who belches just like any other human being aquire this "holyness". And why is he in charge of my like????

It has for some time been an issue, and there are laws set to help protect children from sex offenders. Hey you - ya, the parents - supervised visits. Any parent who leaves their child alone with Michael Jackson...I mean, a man of stained cloth...I mean, here, let me just move on, they should be charged with child endangerment. When the CC needs new priests, they might as well advertise at the boy's club, "Lonely and Single?" Until preventative measures can be put in place, quite playing Russian Roulette. Teach your children to use the buddy system during confession, cuz it's not ok to serve Gods messengers in such a way. As far as the Pope's cover-ups, either he thinks the name 'Catholic' is more important than a child, or is it this: Birds of a feather, Honor among thieves, Guilt by association?

sa -- 2212

No one worships the Pope or any priest.*** Is that why the networks covered the last pope, waiting for him, focusing on his bedroom lights to go out when he croaked?

And the word is "divine."

Why can't non-believers spell? *** What's even more important here is why can believers get a grip and deal with the fact that the very insiders running the show are pinheads?

"These cases are SOOOOO freakin' old. I'm not minimizing it, but the Church IS more proactive. They AREN'T moving priests around. They aren't covering it up."

Uh-huh. Seems like spelling, at least in this case, is one of the last things to be concerned with.

Ray,

Glad you enjoyed reading my comments so much. I've heard that Americans have very limited vocabularies and your post proves it. "Worship" is quite a different thing than "love" or "interest" or "concern." I hope this doesn't take too much of an effort for you. You see, only God is worthy of "worship," but any person can be concerned about another or love another. Thus, I do hope this helps with your worry that Catholics were "worshipping" the Pope because they were worried about his illness and impending death.

hello, the article states; Pope Benedict then was an archbishop that had NO decision making in the keeping or returning the priest back to pastoral duties..what part of that, can't the readers understand ??..the most Holy, had NOTHING to do with it......

"..the most HOLY..."?

oh my god

You people really do need to wake up and smell the corruption that is the Vatican.

This is God's way of telling you that you are in a cult that worships young boys. Wake up and leave. There are religions that are not Xenophobic,racist or abusive. The RCC is all of these. Lemings....

When you have a sick and twisted philosophy, it's going to lead to sick and twisted actions.

It is incredible that anyone in modern times would think it's a good thing to teach small children that there is a Freddy Krueger in the sky who watches everything you do and tortures humans for eternity when they die.

The Abrahamic religions are about an all-powerful monster victimizing the helpless. (Story of Job, for example.) Why would anyone be surprised that those who have been indoctrinated from birth with these sick, twisted beliefs would play them out in adulthood?

It's time to put the superstitions to rest.

At the very least, it would be rational to ask what kind of god would allow his representatives to rape babies? Disgusting.

When younger, I spent 5 yrs., grades 2-6 in Catholic school; this was back in the later 70's, when our area thought bussing all over would solve integration.

5 years isn't that long, but at that age, it was easy to be indoctrinated. I'd have to say it, like most, was a 2 sided coin; once back in public schools, I was less likely to 'push' as far others and would only take things so far, even when there was little to no way of being caught, because I had been taught that Someone is ALWAYS watching. The other side had been that something always seemed to get in the way or complicate everything moreso, for lack of a better way to put it.

As I got older, little by little (after high school, more than when in) I started to realize it was the Guilt instilled. Catholic teachings rely heavily on guilt. My first 4 years in college were at a local university, so I ran into many I knew from the Catholic school, and knew them in high school as well. They, for the vast majority, felt similarly; and it wasn't just 'the Eye in the sky' bit.

Many of us said that it felt as if ANYthing that went wrong; from sicknesses to bad luck, things happening to those that we love, and everyday bits.... not necessarily outwardly so, but somewhere in our heads, we felt somewhat responsible for it because that's really how it was taught to us. And, from '84 on up, articles about what this article is discussing surfaced more and more often. We remembered priests being moved around , many of the Catholic schools in the area, but hadn't given it much of a thought until all this.

Every religion or philosophy has a slant of sorts on Karma, Do unto others, Treat others as... etc, etc,... and there is a lot to that; however, MO, the Catholic's are THE ones for Guilt Control. The more I've learned over the years about the Catholic church, the Crusades, Rome, ancient Popes and all else, I've come to my own conclusions.

For as long as these abuses had been going on, looking at it as 'public news' from 1984 up until 2001? That's a long time, and is a cover-up, and is all about the money and power Catholics have. It's always been about money and power for them, and control to keep both. I see them as no different than any other international mega corporation, and will do what they can to keep what they have and continue to get more; cover-ups are only part of it. I think that any organized religion that makes big bucks is full of it up to there ears, and any religion that claims to 'know' who or what God is are wrong. I'm more of an Agnostic, believing in spirituality and something but also that no one really knows what that is, similar to a Hindu friend of mine (all points to one, universal goods, energies, etc..). Not that much of that matters to this article, only to point out that I'm not talking about something I have no experience with.

The CC is corrupt as they come, and I believe that from the Pope on down... of COURSE this is continuing to be covered as best as it can; owning up to what must be yet attempting to take minimal hits. However, I want to take time to point out; I respect others' opinions and beliefs. I know many of different faiths, backgrounds,etc.. and don't think I'm smarter than them, look down on them; with those I'm familar enough with that anything of religion would even come up, we have an understanding (though I take exception to those that DO claim to be right and 'push' their beliefs on others). I don't believe there's a Jesus, Allah, Budah, or the like and that certainly doesn't mean they're wrong for believing in one or any of the like. But, even the Catholics I know have given up defending the Church on this one, and believe it was more rampant and widespread than what's been owned up to.

Sounds like the population in the 1340's and 1350's, the Black Death. Many felt they had to be doing something wrong to cause such a horrible plague. Oh, yeah, and blame the Jews.

The pope is human, no matter his position. Nor is he the last word on birth control, abortion, etc. Point is, Catholics have raised him to the height of a demi-god, able to do no wrong. When he, and the church, cover this stuff up, as they have for decades, people lose faith....rightly so. It's up to us to determine if we should continue to believe or not. Read a history of almost any period (I recommend "A Distant Mirror" by Barbara Tuchman) and you, like me, will do some serious soul searching in regard to the Catholic church.

I have to agree that Catholic Church teachings rely heavily on guilt. All religion does to some extent, but the Catholics seem to have it down pat.

I have to agree that Catholic Church teachings rely heavily on guilt. All religion does to some extent, but the Catholics seem to have it down pat.

All religions rely on guilt 100%. First they identify normal human attributes as sinful, then they invent a psychopath who is going to torture you because you're sinful, then they promise to save you from this fate. In the case of Christianity, they identify simply being a female as a sin -- never mind that a woman changed their god's dirty diapers.

Then people murder each other because one group believes their fairy tales are superior to another group's bizarre nonsense.

It's amazing what you can get humans to believe and do with early-childhood brainwashing.

I totally agree with you, Diane. I will add to what you say repeating what I just posted about fairy tales regarding another post.

"Yes Tina, most people still find comfort in fairy tales in spite of the fact that humankind has come a long way. We have replaced the traditional geocentric cosmology by a universe with over 100 billion galaxies with over 100 billion solar systems each, but not our bronze-age religious fantasies.

Billions still believe the Christian fairy tale that a supernatural being created humans, transmitted rules to them which they broke, became incensed they did so, conceived a son with a human mother, and had him killed so he could forgive the humans he created for breaking the rules he transmitted to them.

Not to mention other equally absurd religious fairy tales."

sa -- 2212

Yeah, I slip up now and then with my spelling. You seem to insinuate ( I hope I spelled it right) that I'm a "non believer". In what, God, Jesus, the pope, Allah, Jimmy Jones, Robert Koresh? BTW arrogance galore is oozing out of every letter in your post. TA TA

sa -- 2212

Post #1.9

My comments were relating to the article - not the catholic church as a whole. As a reminder, the article was about SOME catholic priests, not all. And it did refer to the fact that this happened a number of years ago. As for the catholic church making changes, I would like to believe that they have. But there is still a lingering question as to whether they changed their processes to prevent or to better hide the priests' crimes. Picking a pedophile out of a list of names is as futile as picking them out of the catholic yearbook since most would prefer not to list pedophilia as a character trait or accomplishment. That is one of the "benefits" of being in a position of authority or respect. You are given the benefit of doubt. However, in most states, that position can be a liability rather than an asset if convict of sexual crimes since it elevates the level of crime and the commensurate punishment.

The unfortunate acts of a few sully the image of many.

As you are well aware, if one of you acts out in class, nobody goes out for recess.

Agreed...to protect or cover-up the abuse and transfer abusers to other unsuspecting victims is unfathomable...especially coming from anyone in clergy or church leadership positions.

Propagation of the Faith...I wonder how many people have lost their faith/belief in God due to the corrupt actions of church clergy/religious leaders? That is one of the sad tragedies of the situation. Every time a decision was made to conceal abuse and allow abuse to continue, the children's faith and well-being were sacrificed. That done by any religious clergy who have promised to protect, teach and lead others in matters of faith and God...well...there are no words for the horror of that. I pray for the victims.

Daylight or in this case cyberspace is the best disinfectant

"Technology is the use of increasingly accurate, self-evident, and reproducible information to replace energy and matter. The benefit of technology is NOT in what it lets people accomplish, but in how it improves the character of people."

And it doesn't hurt that the Church is known to have paid out millions, so these 50 year old men want some money. I know MUCH of this is real, but there is also a LOT that is just bandwagon jumping for the greed of it all.

This filth has been going on for centuries, so don't blame the internet. Yes, people are leaving the Catholic Church because of it's total lack of credibility. They aren't leaving God, though. And God isn't leaving them. It's time to let the old, rotting, putrified crust of an institution decay back to dust because the people in it, broke it and soiled it beyond all redemption. The Holy Spirit lives on and works in this world through good, decent, holy men AND women and the whole natural world including all of creation and will build God's church in even greater perfection through them. Don't be afraid to let go of what is diseased and dying. "Let the dead bury the dead." God is forever and will renew creation. I believe we get as long as it takes to get it right.

Robert,

I was a cradle catholic and raised in a devoutly catholic family. I went to catholic schools from K-12 and then to a secular university. During my college days I went to Mass at the cadet chapel. After graduation, and off to my first assignment I came to meet many people from all walks of life that felt badly about the catholic church up to hating it.

I married at 33 but I did not have the courage to walk away from it until I was 28 and I married a Buddhist woman just to be certain that the catholic church, Mormon Church, or any other church could not work its way back into my life. I have a ex-Mormon friend that has similar negative opinions regarding his former church, however, I doubt that he has seen all of the lives destroyed and ruined guilt wrecked (not wracked) that I have with the catholic church.

I would like to see it destroyed or totally attenuated in my lifetime because it almost ruined my life and it destroyed totally several people that have been part of my life.

Pope Dumpledick is nothing but a criminal filthy, degenerate, lying lousy dog.

...And you are a pagan.

sa -- 2212

...And you are a pagan.*** And you are naughty. God's watching you. Better put on that asbestos bathing suit......I see a lake of fire in your future.

sa: So he is a pagan. What's your point?

Yes, sa, your kind god will lovingly roast pagans for all eternity while you watch and rejoice. You and him will greatly enjoy that, asbestos bathing suits notwithstanding.

Can someone give sadgegoddess an amen.

AMEN!

Really? All? I guess you found you were without sin so you cast the first stone and walked out the door...

I'm sure MS had a good reason for leaving. And yes, MS, people are a bunch of hypocrites; they are by definition flawed, stupid heads. But there are some "hypocrites" who recognize that weakness in themselves and truly strive to do better. Try to find one to hang with; it restores your faith in humankind and yourself. Try to forgive the shallow @!$%#heads, and pity them for their crappy Karma! They may actually be doing their best with what they were given to work with; I know, it's hard to believe. If God has gifted you with a modicum of consciousness, be grateful, be very grateful.

No, sa - no stones. I just walked.

Not just the Catholics, all churches. I have know a few Baptist ministers and youth ministers who shouldn't have been any where near kids.

Check out the facts, basics. The statistics are the same in ALL religions. The Catholic Church is the only one that has a central leadership so that ALL the cases are combined under one "office" so to speak. If you added up the evangelicals, you'd find the same percentage... Methodists -- the same.

Sad to say, but teachers abuse children FAR more than priests, yet I don't hear you calling for an inquisition on them!

Stop whining, and yes we do. People recognize that these criminals exist and abuse in all walks of life and professions and tend to gravitate to those that give them control over children...clergy, doctors, teachers, coaches. And yes, we are calling them ALL out, today, right now. What are you doing to help?

More than you.

Oh, sa..you so miss the point.

Yes..we DO indeed prosecute teachers, or anyone else who molest children. There is no 'coverup'. And THAT is where the absolute breakdown of any faith or credibility in that institution began. The facts are there..the proof is there. For years the church covered up, lied, hypocricized and paid millions to AVOID prosecution. Tying the pope to these acts , or the office of the pope, or tying both or either to these years of coverups has been a long time coming. And if the buck doesn't stop with this false idol, it will certainly wind up on the next 'HOLY ONES' desk.

I am so sorry to hear that. It would be difficult to keep one's faith after that. I hope she found some kind of spiritual peace.

The Catholic Church has absolutely no moral authority. If the Pope, the supposed Vicar of Christ can sit on his throne and let this continue, I honestly think someone else is in charge of that institution and it ain't God. They need to route out the filthy priests, it's terrible. I'm not sure how, but they need to f* figure that sh* out.

Sagegoddess,

Peace be with you. The catholic churce needs to be attenuated and let the rest of its leaders drift off to hell when they die.

Pope Dumpledick has too much soul debt to continue in any form after this mortality. He will be with hitler and stalin and such people as that other dirt bag pope before him.

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me." MT 5: 11

ya...good luck with that

sa, I don't think the evil we are saying against the Church is false.

That was my thought exactly!!

Other Churches may have secrets, but I don't know of any institution that pretty regularly puts child molesters in reach of its faithful's children, and that's what we're talking about here.

It has nothing to do with the Pope's nationality. This molestation has been going on Pope after Pope, after Pope with no resolution. This Church can have no moral authority until it cleans house. I find it just disgusting that anyone is following it, for them to sit in sanctimonious judgement of people while it allows child molesting priests to ruin children's lives. DISGUSTING.

goddess, I wonder how many priests there are in the world? I wonder how many are corrupt? What percentage? I say that one is too much, but can I condemn ALL those and ALL the other Catholics because of the actions of what I think must be quite few?

Yeah, it is kind of hard for me to sit here in sanctimonious judgement of other people. Can you give me some advice on how to do it?

ALL humans are by definition, corrupt. Some do their gall darndest to fight against the urg to be a filthy scum bag and others gleefully go with the flow! Which are YOU?

Great comment, MOS. People fail to remember that the percentage of abusers in the priesthood is VERY small, and IS roughly the same as in all other religions. Other religions, however, don't have a central authority, so their abuse statistics are never tied together.

sa,

The Catholic Church is by far the largest, wealthiest, & most powerful of all organized religions. Thinking in terms of precentages is quite misleading. A victim is a victim, though I'm sure if you've never worked with such ppl you may not understand fully. Either way, 10% of 100 is 10, likewise 10% of 10,000 is 1,000....still the same percentage, but just a larger number. Since you claim to have researched knowledge on this topic, maybe you'd like to reference some the info for the rest of us to look at.

I was born & raised Catholic into a strong Catholic family. My grandparents basically run our local church & the Preist is at every family get together we have. I am not without the knowledge of religion, actually many beyond even Catholicism. You'd probably be amazed at how many religions are fundamentally similar yet so different too. In my experience Catholicism makes up many of their own rules, & they all do it but Catholics by far have many more comparably. And for what? Power & control. Organized religion is ALL about power & control. If you really think it has much to do with God, you are sadly mistaken. Religion doesn't mean a damn thing in the grand scheme of things.

Your religion makes you feel superior to others. As you stated above, the Catholic Church does consider itself as "The 1 True Church." Does it get any more egotistical than that? Hell they even have that line in their Sunday service prayers. Fact of the matter is, ppl who feel they need religion are many times weak minded. You continue to argue & defend a church who has protected pedophiles for many years. How does it feel to put that offering in the basket on Sunday knowing it will go to pay off a molested child's mental & physical anguish? Open your eyes. Hide behind your religion all you want, but the honest truth is.....the ONLY thing that matters is YOUR relationship with God (your God/Being of choice). God's not gonna be interested in what religion you were when you walked on Earth & he damn sure isn't proud that his representative "Men of the Cloth" are molesting children while the Church turns a blind eye & just throws money at the problem!

And if it is, it will one day be brought to light. Count on it.

Henry VII was just a chauvanist trying to get his way. But I know Martin Luther sure had the right idea!

No, he was a psychopathic bigamist/adulterer. Read your 8th grade phychology book. I find it amazing that people actually erected a substructure around him based on his evil values. But really, people in all times, and all places have been known to do some really, really stupid things. And boy, holding up Henry VIII as the head of a "Christian" church is right up there people! Way to go, now. It was probably the one and only time Jesus was at a loss for words. "Wow, I hadn't realized how badly those morons missed the whole point."--Christ

Well John Geoghan never lasted very long ((Priest in Boston Jail), he was strangled to death. Maybe it's only a matter of time before they get Woofter Shanley! Of course, the Pope must watch out now, thats why he only has his blow up replica's.........Nazi.

Amen!!!

It is some of the people in positions of authorty that are causing the problem's.

It is too widespread and too prevalent to say it is only 'some" people in the church. Church policy has been to protect the pedophiles...which suggests that many of the church leaders, who make the policy are perhaps pedophiles themselves, or at least, sympathetic to them, and completely unconcerned about the devastation they cause to innocent and trusting children.

Although pedophillia may not be their stated, or even their primary purpose, it's clear the church has been a sanctuary and a supplier for pedophiles for decades, if not longer. A top-down investigation of the entire system by law enforcement is called for, and would have been undertaken long ago if this was any other business that routinely and tragically abused children.

To blame the Church is nuts. It is some of the people in positions of authorty that are causing the problem's.

Not kidding is quite correct. It has been Church policy for decades (if not for ever) to protect its very large number of abusive members. The abuses of the Irish Priests and Nuns have been brought to light in recent years. One can only speculate what the Catholic Missionaries have been doing in the 3rd World Countries. A full criminal investigation is called for and their tax-exempt status should be revoked (as it should be for all religions).

"To blame the Church is nuts." Is it nuts to blame an institution that covers up the crimes instead of protecting the victims? Well, let's blame the children then.

Frank is right, but of course, no one wants to hear the facts when hype is available. I researched this topic in Grad school, and I can tell you what the problems were, but I'm sure some of you will not be convinced.

1) Many of these men KNEW they had issues, but they thought the priesthood would cure them.

2) The idea of sexual abuse as a crime is a relatively NEW idea.

3) Look it up. In the '60s, '70s, '80s... When parents would find a relative had abused their child they would tell the kid to forget about it "to keep peace in the family." Some say they didn't want to ruin the abusers reputation. For a LONG time, children were not believed in these cases.

Frank is right, but of course, no one wants to hear the facts when hype is available. I researched this topic in Grad school, and I can tell you what the problems were, but I'm sure some of you will not be convinced.

The facts you cite are simply excuses for not doing the right thing. These are supposed to be the moral guides of a community...you can't possibly expect anyone to believe that they didn't know it was wrong, even if they were doing it long before the issue of pedophillia as a crime came to the attention of society as a whole.

3) Look it up. In the '60s, '70s, '80s... When parents would find a relative had abused their child they would tell the kid to forget about it "to keep peace in the family." Some say they didn't want to ruin the abusers reputation. For a LONG time, children were not believed in these cases.

True enough...but this pope was trying to hide this in 2001. And how many of these families were advised by their priests to just bury it, I wonder? As the rest of society moved to end the wholesale, unreported and unpunished abuse of children...sometimes at the cost of great pain in families in an effort to stop it, the church moved too...to hide it, perpetuate it and protect the perpetrators. They have institutionalized pedophillia and blatantly use their congregations as their suppy of fresh victims. They have no excuse for failing to follow the rest of society in doing everything possible to protect innocent children.

Your use of the past tense is admirable, because, indeed, these things happened many years ago -- not in 2001. It might have been brought BACK up then, but this was a while ago.

sa--2212 says...

"Your use of the past tense is admirable, because, indeed, these things happened many years ago -- not in 2001. It might have been brought BACK up then, but this was a while ago."

Read the article...Ratzinger wrote the letter to the Bishops, etc. in 2001...calling for secrecy in these matters of alleged child sex abuse. How do you report a crime to law enforcement while "maintaining secrecy as ordered"? Why any order of secrecy at all? And the letter made no mention of reporting the allegations/incident to law enforcement for an investigation to be started. Do you think any other organization would be allowed to send such a letter out to management without legal repercussions?

KJR -- how dare you lie! He did NOT write a letter calling for secrecy. In FACT, he wrote that CIVIL AUTHORITIES SHOULD BE NOTIFIED IMMEDIATELY if there is an accusation of abuse.

It's one thing to know the facts and then hate the institution. But to just hate, and then make up lies to spread is untenable!

"The pope, meanwhile, continues to be under fire for a 2001 Vatican letter he sent to all bishops advising them that all cases of sexual abuse of minors must be forwarded to his then-office, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and that the cases were to be subject to pontifical secret."

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me." MT 5: 11

KJR -- how dare you lie! He did NOT write a letter calling for secrecy. In FACT, he wrote that CIVIL AUTHORITIES SHOULD BE NOTIFIED IMMEDIATELY if there is an accusation of abuse.

It's one thing to know the facts and then hate the institution. But to just hate, and then make up lies to spread is untenable!

And then Ray kindly showed you, without any insult or false accusations or judgments that you were mistaken with a quote taken directly from the article:

"The pope, meanwhile, continues to be under fire for a 2001 Vatican letter he sent to all bishops advising them that all cases of sexual abuse of minors must be forwarded to his then-office, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and that the cases were to be subject to pontifical secret."

And you respond with this????

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me."

No apology for being wrong and calling someone else a liar and falsely accusing them of spreading hate? Amazing.

Thank You Ray and NotKidding. For the record, sa, I do not lie and I do not "hate" Roman Catholics or anyone else according to their religion...IN FACT, I do not "hate" anyone...my father is Roman Catholic, I was baptized Roman Catholic, I married a Roman Catholic, and some of my good friends are Roman Catholic. I simply believe in complete truthfulness in all matters and revealing all contributing facts, if serious problems are going to be honestly and fully identified and then fully resolved through effective solutions, so as to begin the healing process. To continue secrecy or to mislead in any aspect only leaves a festering wound, and an assurance that true healing will not take place. I also believe in holding ALL people to the same standard of accountablility for knowingly and/or willingly causing or allowing destruction and harm to others...even more so when those others are vulnerable and under the trust, care and "protection" of the abuser/complicient hierarchy. I am not judging anyone...only asking for complete Truthfulness.

And sa, concerning your statement, "In FACT, he wrote that CIVIL AUTHORITIES SHOULD BE NOTIFIED IMMEDIATELY if there is an accusation of abuse"...the implications of the "pontifical secret" order from Ratzinger, according to the article quotes...

"The (2001 Vatican) letter doesn't tell bishops to also report the crimes to police."

Yet Bishop John McAreavey of Dromore in Northern Ireland, told a news conference this week that Irish bishops "widely misinterpreted" the directive and couldn't get a clear reading from Rome on how to proceed.

"One of the difficulties that bishops expressed was the fact that at times it wasn't always possible to get clear guidance from the Holy See and there wasn't always a consistent approach within the different Vatican departments," he said.

"Obviously, Rome is aware of this misinterpretation and the harm that this has done, or could potentially do, to the trust that the people have in how the church deals with these matters," he said.

An Irish government-authorized investigation into the scandal and cover up harshly criticized the Vatican for its mixed messages and insistence on secrecy in the 2001 directive and previous Vatican documents on the topic.

"An obligation to secrecy/confidentialtiy on the part of participants in a canonical process could undoubtedly constitute an inhibition on reporting child sexual abuse to the civil authorities or others," it concluded.

You know that the Pope is a pedophile? WHY are you not on the phone to the police? Perhaps you are just saying that and where I come from saying things that you don't know to be true makes you a liar. And where I come from, calling someone a liar is a big deal. I can imagine that those people that abuse little children lie about it. Are you in the same league as them? Pedophiles and liars?

looks like i touched a nerve,hahahaha you keep sending your donations and you'll always have a place to hide,just as long as you go to confession,then a pedophile can can absolve you of your sins, i wonder how does god really feel about that ? id bet your wasting your money , you should enjoy that money while you are here i don't its worth anything in HELL, and if you want to stand up for the pedophiles you'll certainly get there.

Are you referring to the Nazis that were able to escape to South America with fake documents provided by the Vatican? You should get your facts straight, the Pope and the Catholic Church helped protect the Nazis and supported the fascists in Italy and Spain. Child abusers, pedophiles, fascists and Nazi sympathizers. Nice Church, Frankie.

dave and providence, you are both so aggressively ignorant it's a wonder you can cross the street without help. Your lies about the Vatican and WWII will only convince other morons.

sa. These are not lies, you just choose to remain ignorant. I'll give you an example: Klaus Barbie. He was known as the Butcher of Lyon. He escaped to Bolivia after the war with the help of the Catholic Church.

OH, okay, I get it providence... Because ONE PRIEST helped Barbie move to Bolivia, you feel comfortable saying the WHOLE Catholic Church helped him.

Doesn't it bother you to lie like that?

sa, what alot of people are missing is that the Church is and institution made up of people. Some of those Priests saved Jews and died under horrid torture and some turned them in to the Gestapo.

The institution is not perfect, but for whatever bad has been done, it has brought us to the point that we can tell the difference between what is moral and what is not. The institution is slow moving and in my mind, embarrassed to have those that are sworn to bring the word of peace, doing such base and un Christian acts. Sometimes, when people are embarrassed, they just don't know what to do. Should they shout from the roof top about their failings and make the whole institution look bad, or try to deal with it quietly?

What would you do? What should be done? Easy to sit at the key board and shout at the world, but hard to put ones self into the shoes of the decision makers. I would think that if it were me, I would turn the Priest over to the police and make the Bishop go to the trial to lean what his subordinate had been doing.

True. But I know that our bishop was commended for the way he handled abuse allegations back in the '80s. He took them out of the parish, sent them to receive therapy and if they WERE allowed back, they weren't working in a parish OR anywhere with kids.

sa, you easily call people liars when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Look up "Ratlines." In fact I'll give you a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlines_(history)

Many Catholic priests actively helped the Nazis. And in 2009 the Vatican brought Bishop Richard Williamson back into the fold. He's a notorious holocaust denier.

Yes, and then there were all the nuns and priests put in concentration camps for helping the Jews. How do you reconcile that?

Oh, I guess you just deny it.

sa, you seem to think it is commendable that your bishop sent people to therapy and then may or may not have let them back. What about sending them to jail? Just because they are priests, they are too good for jail? Any other child molester would have the legal process slam him down, but the church is somehow above that?

Also, it seems as though your bishop was not necessarily the rule. For decades, the church shifted around pedophiles, so to state your example as a redemption for these disgusting actions does nothing to help those bishops who did hide the problem.

He was NOT necessarily the rule -- I agree. But look at society at that time -- Few, if ANY pedophiles were locked up! Therapy and then they were right back in the community! Probation -- that's all they got.

The problem I have with this "news story" and the attack on the Catholic Church is that we are putting 2010 expectations and criteria for dealing with pedophiles on 1950-1990 crimes, and we're saying they should have done this or that...

Now, let me stress: What happened in Boston was horrendous! Clearly they had to be aware of long-term, ongoing issues with priests. BUT, only two or three other cases were that extensive...

I don't think most bishops knew how to deal with it. Clearly, back in the day, the authorities didn't know how to deal with it -- and neither did parents.

I actually agree with what you said about not judging by 2010 standards (something that happens way too often). But the pope wrote the letter in 2001, not in the 50s. It is not so much the fact that the abuse happened (which is horrible in itself) but the way the church moved these people around, knowing that it would lead to more children being molested.

Since they are in the church, I think these bishops need to be help to a higher standard. I am really just rubbed the wrong way with how they paid off victims to keep it quiet. And the scandal is just breaking in places like Ireland, and who knows if/when it will break in Africa or other places? I just don't know how those involved in any part of this can even call themselves religious.

You are so right. A sewer line of Catholic priests knowingy helped Nazis, Adolf Eichmann in particular, escape through Italy into Argentina.

teeree, you are right in saying, "I just don't know how those involved in any part of this can even call themselves religious."

I don't think they are... I think they are evil... They were either evil when they entered the priesthood or were seduced by evil once they were in. Either way, Jesus is clear, "It would have been better if they had a millstone around their neck..."

But, I also think msn is jumping through hoops and doing all sorts of contortions to connect this to the Pope. I don't think he knew about it.

He is a people just like you and me, but people named him Pope...just a title, a title of Pope dose not = Holly or God or Super man...but a faith as well...people have been promoted certain people to mcuh powers in this world...God is within us, around us...right?

Because it's the True Church. It's run by humans, and humans sin, but it is filled with the Holy Spirit, and it remains Christ's Church.

I know many, many priests, and they are good men dedicated to serving people. They are not pedophiles. They are not abusers. As I said in an earlier post: Statistics show teachers are MUCH more likely to sexually abuse children... But you keep blaming the Church if it makes you feel better...

tam,

And parents keep sending their kids to school. Imagine that.

You tell me, I don't know, all I know that God is within us and not in the church...church should be a holly place for the belivers and followers...but not that holly any longer.

Your "church" is the most vile example of Christian religion on the planet.

I totally agree with this. All of you should read "Papal Sin:Papal Sin: Structures of Deceit" by Gary Wills. It gives some excellent insight into why the problem exists. Me, I say it's as simple as (altar boys/school children) + close proximity to (altar boys/school children) + pedophile tendencies = priesthood.

Forbidding priests to marry was the result of a papal edict from the late 1300s. 'for dat twas kool.

Oh, so if they could marry, they wouldn't abuse children!? Give me a break! Why don't you do some research on pedophilia -- it is about power and control. It's a psychiatric illness, and NO, they cannot be rehabilitated, and they should be in prison.

But there are many judges all over this country who are STILL giving predators a slap on the wrist for these crimes.

Why blame the Catholic Church for a worldwide crime that is misunderstood by MANY people who could do something with these predators?

sa, some people have made up their minds and feel the need to complain about the church, but I ask them? What are you doing with your life the make the world better? Help out anyone in need?

Hmmm, funny how people will go to church if they need help with a food pantry or if someone is sick or dying? Yeah, what do these complainers do for their communities? They can't trust the church, but what are they doing to make the world better?

You're right MOS. You hear them say how bad "religion" is. How evil it is and how much better off they are because they aren't associated with it...

Yet, it's where people go when they are in trouble, because they know a priest will help them!

When the chips are down, they will realize that God is really all we have. And they will realize that that is no small thing!

mos,

They point out every wrong and sin of every Christian and then ridicule them for believing in God. They will call the Bible a fairy tale written by man. Then they continue on and de-cry the tax exempt status of a church, while not a penny is from them. Though, when tragedy strikes, they seek God. And then these people wonder why God allows this (tragedy). Maybe it's for this reason, to bring them closer to God. Everyone makes their choice. I've made mine.

Or they try to live as good people, governed not by fear of hell, but by a true appreciation for mankind. And they pay taxes like a law-abiding citizen, while the church enjoys having enough money to pay off all those abused while still building multi-million dollar churches. When tragedy strikes, they realize that bad things happen for no reason, and don't blame anyone.

At least, that is my choice. Just as I am sure you would not like people arguing that all Christians act a certain way, I would appreciate if you don't lump all non-Christians into the same category. There are good and bad people, and what a person calls himself (religious, atheist, whatever) does nothing to change that.

teeree, you don't really know anything about Christianity: We are not governed by FEAR of hell. We are governed by LOVE OF CHRIST.

If you can generalize, so can I. And even if you are governed by love of god, that doesn't mean that you are superior to non-believers, which is what your post suggests.

Basically, don't try to make all non-Christians out to be hypocrites, because the sword cuts both ways.

sa,

Actually, sorry. That wasn't your post I was talking about, so you weren't suggesting that. I meant to address Made their Bed.

Forgiven, teeree!

Loaded with pedophiles? What do you consider loaded?

MOS,

It is not just the pedophilia issue. You would have to be brought up Catholic to see a lot of these manifestations of evil that an adult that chooses to become a Catholic through RCIA does not.

Respectfully,

Rattus

rat, what are you talking about? Nonsense. I'm a cradle Catholic and I have worked in the RCIA program for 10 years...

There is nothing different! And by the way, there is nothing respectful in your lies about the Church.

Rocks behave better than priests and the God of the Bible.

Lift a rock and you will find me.....

So sad. I'm glad I know the difference between God and humans. I rejoice that my faith is not in man but God. I'm so happy to be Catholic and KNOW it is the True Church. I rejoice that the Sacraments of the Church give us special moments where we truly feel God's presence. And I am thrilled that though the Church is ancient, each year, my local church welcomes hundreds and hundreds of converts and those newly baptized into the faith. I am proud to have friends who are priests: Good men devoted to serving the Lord and the people.

Thank you, Jesus, for sending me the invitation to know YOU better, and thank you for leading me in a life where YOU are the center! Amen

sa 2212 i truly hope that you have no children and if by chance you do never leave them alone with your friends the priests. remember that most children are raped by people they know. good luck with that god thing but obviously you need some help

sa2212 you sound as if you are either brainwashed or hypnotized.

sa -- 2212

I'm glad

I rejoice

I'm so happy

I rejoice

I am thrilled

I am proud

You are brainwashed, to the MAX!

LOL... Dream what you want. I know the truth... I hope you recognize there IS a God before you stand before Him on judgment day!

Then again, as Jesus sent the Apostles out on their first mission, He told them to preach The Word, but if people wouldn't listen to just leave and "shake the dust off your sandals in protest against them."

Consider my sandals clean, my conscience clear and my brain is my own. Sorry my happiness and peacefulness bother you. I know you're jealous because you have no faith. Sad.

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me." MT 5: 11

you should think before you speak,(FALSELY say things) are you saying that these hundreds maybe thousands of people that they were molested by their priests falsely? you r a nut case. this all very well documented,and by the wayJesus said and i quote The way to the father is through the son. he never said pray to the mother Mary,he in fact made his mother wait with the commoners to see him,so i please ask you not too Pee on my leg and tell me that its raining...

Now Dave, don't you know the Catholic Church is "The One True Church?" I mean it clearly says it in the Bible....oh wait, I forgot, NO priest has EVER been able to show me where exactly it says that. Hmmm, funny how that is. I'm certain though, if you ask sa...they'll let you know allllll about it!

One of my favorite quotes, "I like your Christ, I do not like your christians; your christians are so unlike your Christ" - Ghandi

The Pope is the head of the church. It is his business to know what is going on. If he doesn't, he is nothing more than a figurehead, and posing as the ultimate holy man makes him no better than the King of the Mardi Gras.

The only part of the "church" that is not guilty of perpetuating the abuse of children are the children themselves. Even the parents hold some blame. When living in Boston, two of my friends were ex-catholic and would not speak to their parents. They had told about the priest who molested them and their mothers beat and slapped them for speaking such blashphemy and insisted they go to confession to ask forgiveness for their lies.

Frank, if you adhere to your belief in God and follow His tenents to the best of your ability, then, bless you. I wish you comfort and peace. But please do not mistake your faith in God with your faith in the institution of the church.

screminimimi...that is a sad story...I hope your friend's Faith in God was not destroyed by what happened. So sad that their relationships with their parents became another casualty of the priest's abuse of them. So often we do not even see all the victims and casualties of these abuse situations. I can feel a little sorry for the parents, too. It use to be very difficult to speak up about the immoral actions of a religious leader...people were led to believe religious leaders were morally superior and parishioners/church members would sometimes endure a lot of community "shunning" and shame if they accused a religious leader of anything. Children were often not believed if they did find the courage to tell, as well. Thankfully, I think that has changed for the most part...in America anyways.

Frank...I really do respect your faith and desire to put some light on the fact that we cannot paint all religious leaders, or all priests with the same brush. Many are very spiritual people who do much good...that is very true. I think the authorities are often the biggest part of the problem when something like this priest sexual abuse of children is covered up and allowed to continue in many instances. It seems like power so often leads people astray and corruption takes over, as they throw out the very principles they are supposed to uphold. I feel for you in loving your church and trying to defend the many good people and clergy who are a part of the Roman Catholic religion.

Lucrative showbiz without any liabilities. No customer has ever come back to complain about unfulfilled promises. And if you really screw up, all you have to do is ask your customers to pray for you.

The only thing worse than the pedi-creeps, is the Dr. FeelGood a$$ wipes that defend them.

Then, they try to derail the real topic with their "God is Good", and "Don't abandon the faith" CRAP by reciting the "KING JAMES VERSION" of the word of God. Thank god Micro$oft didn't have anything to do with the bible, can you imaging the "User Agreement" for that failed to function book of babbling's.

The only thing wrong in believing in God, is that the church is involved(or wants to be) with the faith in the first place.