Once she claims that she was insane and they give here a slap on the wrist because shes a 'Harvard educated professor' she'll be free as a bird to go hunting with whoever she wants.

I bet Cheneys a better shot

hey hollywood there's an idea'er for ya....a new Man versus wild series. Two birds...one stone

That's what happens when you get a buncha liberal schmoes letting people loose. Happens with child molesters as well. If I was in charge that bitch wouln't of got 10 near a school. Hell looks alone tells you she is wack.

Johnny I suppose you consider Huchabee a liberal ??? Just wondering on the defination of liberal?

How long before this is made into a "Law and Order" episode?

It's not a liberal issue, it's a "Wow, the higher education system really has their priorities screwed up" issue.

At univerisites like this, the paper you've earned is the #1 criteria for everything. And why shouldn't it be - they're in the business of selling that paper. The type of person you are and what kind of value you add is largely irrelevant (even though they'll argue otherwise).

she'll be free as a bird to go hunting with whoever she wants.

Not if she is declared insane as you suggested in your post.

This post is the most asinine drivel I've seen in a long time. Not one intelligent comment or anything resembling relevant.

The bottom line is that this woman slipped through the justice system. Twice. And three more people are dead because of it. I'd like to know how she escaped charges both previous times -was it family money? Connections? Or just dumb luck? Perhaps if she were black she would have been in prison.

There's a lot that needs to be explained here and I doubt anyone will answer for it. Hindsight is 20/20, sure, but this sounds like either a cover-up or incompetence.

A former employer can verify dates of employment to a prospective employer, but not much else, on pain of a lawsuit. This kind of reminds me of that Psychiatrist nut that shot up his army base, where no one was saying anything fearing retribution to their own careers. Not sure what to do about these unhinged employees, HR can only do so much - but in this odd woman's case, seems like they could have Googled her and gotten something that raised a flag?

This woman is clearly a psycho.

I can see where she might have gotten by with "accidental" shooting. But an accidental shooting and a pipe bomb and she is involved in both? Whoever investigated her for the pipe bomb really dropped the ball. Things like this just are not coincidental. No way.

Trouble is that she wasn't involved in one of those previous episodes - she was questioned - along with alot of other people - and released. They saw the shooting as accidental. I've been questioned for stuff - and released. Glad my employment has nothing to do with every trivial thing that's happened in my life. This woman snapped. Look at every thing she's done for the past 40 years, and I'm sure someone could point to something, but think of your own life for the past 40 years. You want people to convict you for this?

Except being involved in an accidental shooting and then being a possible suspect for murder via a pipebomb is a TOTALLY different thing.

Am I saying she killed her brother in cold blood and then attempted to set off a bomb in a Children's Hospital? No. Am I saying that employers on a college campus should do a minor investigation for a criminal record for their employee's like they do for a student who is appyling? Yes.

Corporate politics can carry some pretty ugly consequences. So, next time you are plotting to get someone fired at the water cooler remember this story.

I don't know which is Worse; Brains with guns or No Brains with guns..anyway a vocal big mouth, met her fate....

Not surprising, she also attacked fellow professors for not wholeheartedly supporting Barak Obama. Maybe the New Black Panthers can get her a cushy gig in prison?

The bottom line is that this woman slipped through the justice system. Twice.

Yeah, kind of like you. I'm sure you were somewhere in the US during 9-11 but investigators didn't ask all the right questions to find the real mastermind. It had to have been you because, were you or were you not in the US at the time? And we all know you were in the US at the time of these shootings. Again, did the police focus in on the right subject? Which shows you've slipped through the justice system, TWICE!

I think I've found a nominee for the jack^ss of the year award.

She had no criminal record because she was let go on the shooting of her brother and just questioned on the pipe bomb incident.

Her family and the law enforcement personnel who let her go when she shot her brother are at fault for releasing an obvioulsy mentally ill woman with a penchant for murder on an unsuspecting public. Small town politics put an ineffectual person in charge of protecting it as often happens and now we see the result.

Sorry about the misspelled post above. Lost me glasses

That's what happens when you get a buncha liberal schmoes letting people loose. Happens with child molesters as well. If I was in charge that bitch wouldn't of got 10 miles near a school.

Hell looks alone tells you she is wack. Fell out of an ugly tree and hit every branch coming down.

#############################

SCAR

Johnny I suppose you consider Huchabee a liberal ??? Just wondering on the defination of liberal?

My response: You can be a conservative in many ways and still hold liberal ideas. Smuckabee is no different. This broad was way off center and should have been in jail long ago. If not shot flogged and killed. JMO And the people who let this Dingo loose should be held accountable as well.

Liberals? those are the @!$%#s who let child molesters walk out of jail because the have been rehabilitated. Then get arrested again for raping a little girl and killing her. Child molesters should be castrated and have both there hands cut off and thrown on an island. Rapists as well. They should be treated as lepers. Stone the sons of bitches if they get near anyone.

These people are the lowest of low.

Why would a radical liberal "progressive" want to go hunting with Mr. Cheney? Funny how the media failed to properly identify her as a "left-wing radical" from Harvard.

There are people like her all over society. Heck, they let people (as of 2006) into the military with a manslaughter or homicide conviction due to shortage of recruits... these people are everywhere. That's why you gotta pick your battles wisely, you never know who's a nut job!

Damn man.

What about those who have other circumstances for doing an act of violence (physical or otherwise) and who have not received help?

I don't think we should kill all first time sex offenders, but I definitely think authorities should keep an eye on them for at least 15 to 20 years and see if they really have changed.

I primarily say this because there are those offenders who have been abused so badly in their pasts that they really have no way of knowing what they are doing is wrong. I personally think they should be put into a mental hospital until they are deemed rehabilitated and then placed in a group home until they are also deemed safe in society, then placed in a home where they are checked on periodically, and if they get the clear then, THEN they should be allowed to walk around without interference.

That scenerio being applied to those who have been abused brutally in their childhood, that is.

teachers used to just hit kids with rulers we had one history teacher who was pretty good with rubber erasers>

There is no good reason the University did not know about Bishop's background. Anyone who is appointed to instruct with our children and deal with them day to day in an authoritative capacity should be checked, double checked and RE-checked. This woman has been berserk for 20 years.

She is no more insane then the female astronaut, Lisa Novak, who drove from Texas to Florida wearing a diaper so she wouldn't have to stop and use the bathroom, therefore making good time to accomplish her goal of killing her lover's other girlfriend in Florida. Just because someone is "intellectual" does mean they have good morals or that they have "common sense". All I have to say is, no man is worth wearing a diaper for 2 days or however long it took to get to Florida. And that is my final "answer".

Movingout

that's some stupid ass @!$%#...

Each of you should be ashamed of yourselves; just because she was a mental ill, homicidal, mean spirited ,paranoid, bi-polar, individual, does not mean she should not be able to teach in college.

JThomas, considering the politically correct system that mandated the policy to overlook such glaring signs, I'd be hard pressed to believe she'd already have been in prison if she was black.

This post is the most asinine drivel I've seen in a long time. Not one intelligent comment or anything resembling relevant.

The bottom line is that this woman slipped through the justice system. Twice. And three more people are dead because of it. I'd like to know how she escaped charges both previous times -was it family money? Connections? Or just dumb luck? Perhaps if she were black she would have been in prison.

There's a lot that needs to be explained here and I doubt anyone will answer for it. Hindsight is 20/20, sure, but this sounds like either a cover-up or incompetence.

There are no facts so far that show she "slipped through the justice system" - twenty years ago she shot her 18 year old brother and an investigation determined it was not a criminal act. She was only questioned in the attempted pipe bombing incident. I am sure that there were many people questioned for this incident, yet posters on this site have concluded that she was guilty of being the almost bomber - one person eve said she got away with murder for the "bombing" incident, yet the bombs did NOT go off, thus there was no actual bombing, no one was killed, ergo, no "murder" occurred. The majority of the posters are so quick to scream about how she got away with multiple crimes, even though the evidence at the time showed that she was not even subject to an arrest, let alone that she committed any crimes. I am sure the investigators in both these incidents know a heck of a lot more about the facts surrounding these two things than the sum total of all the posters on this site.

Prospective employers can and often do obtain background checks, but this generally shows convictions and in some instances, possibly arrests. She was neither convicted nor arrested in either case, which were investigated in two t jurisdictions (two different states) and and by three different law enforcement officials, (the two different states as well as the federal government in the case of the bomb incident). Does anyone seriously believe that law enforcement, especially the FEDS, would NOT want to proceed with an arrest and prosecution of ANY person suspected of sending two bombs to a major public building !?!!!? (especially because the suspect was a WOW ... a small time college professor?? Comments otherwise defy any logic.

mnet - the state and the fedes (as in the bombing incident).

What I can't understand is how and why did they even give her a chance to be employed after her background, but I guess that goes back to where we are in time; which goes to show that things still have not changed and never will. Here I am trying to get a good job out of college with no record and this lunatic manages to get a decent job after killing her brother. With that being said, she has a chance to kill again and this is how it ends up. But this probably will not be her last because she will probably get out in a couple of years or months.

Her Husband really needs to pull his head out of his azz....She had a gun...(I don't know where she got it)...went to a shooting range(Didn't find that peculiar?)Has a history of being a nut(Hubby's like HUH? What?)GEEZ!!! That woman has been a mental case FOR YEARS it sounds like....and everyones sooo surprised at what she did!! Head in azz syndrome.....

I think her troubles began at the barber shop with that MOE haircut!!! The stylist is lucky she didn't come looking for him (or her)!!!

Fred G. :-) Funny!

onewonan...I completely agree...most sensible conclusion here. Sounds like someone was bought out...or family connections in high places.

She had no criminal record because she was let go on the shooting of her brother and just questioned on the pipe bomb incident. Her family and the law enforcement personnel who let her go when she shot her brother are at fault for releasing an obvioulsy mentally ill woman with a penchant for murder on an unsuspecting public. Small town politics put an ineffectual person in charge of protecting it as often happens and now we see the result.

you poor sheeple...

The husband is dumb as a fox. I think her husband is crafty and manipulative and knew exactly what was going on. I had thought he previously said that he did not know she had a gun. Now it is revealed he was at a shooting range with her, and he expects anyone to believe he mean't he didn't know where she got the gun? If I suddenly turned up with a pistol and starting practicing at the shooting range with my husband, without a doubt he would ask where the gun came from...and probably a few other questions...since knowing that I had killed my brother, he would want to make sure he wasn't on my shi(poop) list. I am guessing the husband was fully aware of the pipe bomb incident, too...maybe even helped her along on that one (yes, I feel she was responsible). Notice the HUSBAND'S company is involved with HER invention...now, with her in prison for life...he may just have outsmarted the professor...and he may end up a rich man.

And my sympathy to the university families whose loved ones have lost their lives or were injured by this sociopath. Someone(s) who were a part of helping this cold, calculating murderer escape justice in the past bear much responsibility for this tragedy. You would think her family would have wanted justice for her brother, and help for her.

Hummm, my wife out of no where wants to go to the gun range. Yet I don't recall her buying a gun, nor had we discussed her plans to buy a gun.

I would say that's strange..

Had this this fruitcake been on the 'far right' you would have heard it all over the AP. But since this Alabama shooter was a 'far left' political extremist who was obsessed with Obama they choose not to take that angle...The AP is a joke!!!!

Looks like the NEA is out in full force today. Well, it is msnbc, so why should anyone be surprised? NO ONE is entitled to a job for life. Period.

Waterdog; you are absolutely correct no one deserves tenure. Do the job correctly keep the job. Just as anything short of merit pay has no merit. The NEA has a warped value system.

I don't give a damn where she graduated from she is one demented b*tch. Education and intellect has little to do with decency.

The only true equality is being equal to the task.

Just some random thoughts here...

If this lady was black, her Moe-Haircut-wearin' self would have been locked up no later than after the pipe bomb incident...assuming she wasn't able to skate for shooting her brother. In Alabama? Somebody would have found the evidence to lock her @$$ up if they had to hire Industrial Light and Magic to do it. Yeah, I know that every white person in Alabama is not a racist, but the criminal justice system still has issues (and not just in Alabama, by the way).

If not getting an earned & deserved promotion were a reason for killin' up some folks, I'd be living under a jail somewhere...and would have been for quite some time now.

This lady's husband knew he was married to a wingnut. He's tap-dancing in case she does somehow beat the rap, so he doesn't find himself kneeling in a cornfield some day, waiting to catch two to the head. I'll bet he's just relieved she didn't snap at home with him and the kids!

The lady ol' Doc Death here opened up a can on over a restaurant child booster seat must be thanking her lucky stars Doc wasn't packin' heat that day, or she'd probably be dead, too.

no, she aligned herself with the current Administration leaders and had liberal ideologies. Or so I heard.

End the tenure system. Nobody has a right to a position for life. PERIOD!

Tod, what a long essay on resentments. I hope you are not a mailman.........

With almost every killing, someone can find 'a bigger picture' that makes them feel better about the horrible incident. Was the school screwing her over, maybe....was she stressed to the point of no return....possibly....but honestly we're all be screwed one way or another by something, someone, some job and stressed...the BIGGER PICTURE you're referring to is called LIFE....learn to understand it, and either live with it or find a way to deal with it better without killing or stealing (financial Ponzi schems) from innocent people that didn't have anything to do with your day-to-day issues!

Be blessed!

Wod, I mean Tod, the greatest indicator of future behavior is past behavior. She showed her true colors when she killed her brother. All of us are pulled in a million directions; I had a horrible childhood, but guess what?? ... So did half of the US. It is how one perceives those and deals with them. And, guess is, if she went to Harvard, she was educated enough to know that reasoning is a virture. She just did not want to.

Is it just a coincidence the people killed were all minorities. The professor sent the pipe bomb was apparently Jewish.

Gee Tod, was her brother a Professor too?

Bad employers have existed since time immemorial. However, times are better now than ever for most people who work thanks to changes in the labor laws. No more (legal) slavery. OCHA has made work sites safer (for the most part). No more living stranded in a town you essentially work for who takes your very pay check so you can eat and have a roof over your head, but leaving you no way to move out and up. No more 18 hour days - seven days a week - in a coal mine with NO safety precautions.

Fact is, people have it better nowadays on the job than ever before but they seem to be shooting their employers more often. Why is that? Simple. Jobs are no longer just a means to and end: survival. Instead, jobs have become careers and careers have become the way people like you Tod, define themselves as individuals and often what they solely rely on for feelings of self-worth. And when LIFE happens and things go wrong in that job/career, the loss of identity and self-worth causes UNSTABLE people to turn violent.

Life happens. Sometimes it sucks. Sometimes people are mean. That NEVER justifies murder. EVER. Don't like your job? Find a new one. Career path taking a hit? Make changes. Learn not to rely totally on that job or career to make you happy and define who you are as a person. And above all, thou shalt not kill.

I wonder if she was stressed not only for being denied tenure, but also because she had four kids. The life of a research academic can be tougher than many "outsiders" know....the pressure to publish good papers, to obtain funding (and in the current economic climate, the competition for funding is fierce), to do research AND teach....I know it boggles my mind to think of juggling all of that. It must be so hard when you attempt to have a life - kids, extracurricular activities - and are still judged against those around you who dedicate their lives to their research and work.

Still, that should never, EVER lead to violence and/or death. It's unfortunate that she had exhibited signs of serious mental illness for such a long time and hadn't been able to overcome it or be successfully treated for it.

With that said, I know firsthand how academia can mimic the bully environment of high school. It's one thing to accept that you are denied a position because of your own lack of merit, but sometimes it's the exultant attitudes of peers that can keep us from getting where we want to go.

I know what she did was awful, but in some sense a bit of empathy might lead us to understand why and how these things happen and more importantly, how to prevent them.

Welcome to the mind of a sociopath. There is no justification for murder. She took the life of her eighteen year old brother. She took the life of a child, her own brother. I can't believe that I am reading comments here about showing her empathy, and blaming the victims for her evil behavior. This women didn't kill these people because of 9/11, Barack Obama, or the war in Iraq. She murdered these people because they got in the way of something she wanted. And people like her always want something. Anyone who would justify this behavior is a time bomb waiting to happen.

Whirley, this started when she was nineteen. She saw her brother as a threat and simply got rid of him. She is a sociopath who feels no grief or remorse for what she did. You cannot rehabilitate these people. Empathy is not what she needs, its more like a bullet

Yeah, who were the "bastards" and "asses" when she killed her brother? When she sent the pipe bombs? When you think everyone in your world is out to get you, you are a paranoid freak and have no business teaching our children.

Is it just a coincidence the people killed were all minorities. The professor sent the pipe bomb was apparently Jewish.

Ah, Holmes! The professor was a well endowed male, and circumcised! It wasn't a pipe bomb that exploded after all! It was just an orgasm. Case solved!

Whirlybird, lots of people have stress in their lives. They don't go and shoot people. No empathy OR sympathy here.

Before we can judge the crime, we need to also look at the hippocracy in the system and correct that as well.

Tod - get a grip. If hypocrisy carried the death sentence, piles of corpses would litter the streets.

Let's suppose the biology department at that university was run by the most insufferable SOBs on the planet.

In that case, the department, and by extension the school, would soon earn a bad reputation.

Graduate students would think twice before applying there.

Postdocs would look for opportunities elsewhere.

Tenured faculty would go on sabbatical or opt for early retirement.

In short, an organization riddled with incompetent hypocrites implodes sooner or later.

>Is it just a coincidence the people killed were all minorities. The professor sent the pipe bomb was apparently Jewish.

I don't consider being Jewish in an academic area a minority.

I guess my point above was that having firsthand experience in academia has made me see how petty and bully-ish of an environment it can be. I don't know if, in this case, she was denied tenure simply due to her own lack of merit or because other people had it out for her. Again, nothing would excuse killing or harming someone else, but I will be interested in hearing the facts of this case as they come out.

Is it just a coincidence the people killed were all minorities. The professor sent the pipe bomb was apparently Jewish.

Although they never found solid evidence linking Bishop to the pipe bomb, I wouldn't put anything past her.

After all, she shot and killed her own brother back in 1986.

Something tells me she didn't care about her victims' ethnicity or religious background.

Tod Policaandriotes,

You better check yourself into a mental hospital because you have lost your mind!!!!!!!!

There's always high school. Life is not always just a bowl of cherries. NO ONE is entitled to a job for life. NO ONE!

Waterdog, I second that.

Fielding,

You are absolutely wrong. Being denied tenure does NOT get you fired. In fact, it has nothing negative to do with your job status at all. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Tenure is a very difficult thing to achieve and marks decades of work. You have to be a full professor and be on "tenure-track" to even be considered for tenure. Just getting proposed for tenure is an honor. And to get tenure one has to have a long record of independent research (if the university is a research institution), teaching evaluations and service (to the community, the university and the profession.) Being able to really be outstanding in all three areas simultaneously is extremely difficult. Many, many outstanding researchers or teachers do not ever achieve tenure because they are one-dimensional. "Politics" often plays a great part in it, but politics alone will not get your research done or get you good teaching evaluations, so politics will not get you tenure either.

And as far as a "job-for-life" that is far less than true. First of all, tenure tends to come well after the mid-point of your career, so your job is already half over. You can still be fired for any good cause. The only thing you are protected from is summary dismissals without good cause. And even if you are not fired, but just choose to "coast", you can still be assigned the crappy courses to teach and lots of other small indignities that mark you as "tenured, but inept."

External politics are becoming more and more of an issue. Political administrations these days do not hesitate to lean on universities who espouse positions they do not like. Remember that at the same UAH campus, political figures repeatedly tried to get Dr. James Hansen (a tenured full professor, though primarily a NASA employee) fired while actively campaigning to get Dr. John Christy promoted to full professor and tenured. The reason, Dr. Hansen is a mover and shaker for temperature data from weather satellites while Dr. Christy is a prominent global warming denier. Tenure protects people like Dr. Hansen from summary dismissal simply because the Bush/Cheney administration wanted to silence him.

The ultimate purpose of tenure is to protect professors in colleges and universities. The true purpose of higher education is not just to teach facts and theories and such, but to teach students critical thinking. Very often the really good professors will use very unconventional ways of getting students to actually think. Playing devil's advocate, or using the Socratic method, or introducing controversy into a debate are among the ways that a good professor might get students to think. This is made rougher by the fact that mostly a tenured full professor would probably be teaching graduate students (Masters and PhD candidates) so these students are so far along that truly challenging them is difficult. But at the end of the day, professors NEED the protection from administrators coming along and firing them because they do not like some controversial thing that was said in class or that a prominent alumnus' son flunked a course.

Ideas being bandied about in Tier 1 universities are in the cutting edge and tenure is a way of protecting the people who are on the "bleeding edge" of thought and allowing, even encouraging, them to pursue new and unfamiliar things.

If you want to read about tenure instead of listening to the know-nothing idiots who will tell you all about it without knowing anything about it, here is a good link to do a little reading about tenure:

http://www.answers.com/topic/tenure-1

And just in case you wonder why some of these stupid rants set me off. My wife is a tenured full professor at the University of Alabama (though not at the Huntsville campus.) Her "job-for-life" means routine 75-hour weeks. She spent many years doing research, has won teaching awards, and is a significant contributor to collaboration both within and outside the university. Her CV weighs a pound (figuratlively --- LOL)

My wife recently was on a tenure and promotions committee and I can tell you for a fact that the process is torturous and very intense. The people take it very seriously and have very significant guidelines and a formal process to follow. My wife would not know how to play politics even if she wanted to. She is a scientist and is far from easily impressed by political advocacy of tenure candidates. (This is part of the "service" component of what universities call the "three-legged stool --- Teaching, Research, and Service.)

This kind of incident bothers me a great deal. It was just all too easy to put my wife in the place of one of the faculty members who died or was wounded. It will be hard for me to ever think of her workplace as safe as I did a week ago.

But if you don't understand what tenure is, why it is necessary in a university, or would like to know the history of the process, just go to the link above. It is lots easier to ferret out a few facts than to listen to the venom-spewing haters who post on the vine a lot.

Chris....can you give an example of the last time a tenured professor was "fired" in the U/A system?

Are you trying to explain that the reason college professors are viewed as "liberal" is that they are just emulating Socrates? I don't think so!

As far as UAH being complacent in hiring Ms. Bishop, she was not convicted of any crime so how could they uncover these new facts in any employment process? IMO it's tragic that Mass. police and prosecutors didn't seem to connect the dots many years ago.

Typical liberal left wing response by Tod. You make excuses for a wack job.

MH-Vet,

I don't know of a specific case at UA --- I do know of one tenured professor at UA who, when called in for disciplinary action said, in an attempted bluff, "If you try to take any action against me, I will resign." That was accepted as an immediate "constructive" resignation. It is rare that a tenured professor is fired, but a lot of that is the level of accomplishment and caliber of person that it takes to get tenured. I know of specific cases at Emory University and Penn State. The one at Emory was in the medical school and it was for not disclosing outside financial interests. The one at Penn State was for not showing up for classes past whatever minimum was in the faculty handbook.

As I said, tenure does not protect you from being fired. And it does not protect your position at all. If most universities wanted to get rid of a tenured professor, they would just eliminate their position and the person would be forced to teach full-time. You would have to be pretty lacking in ego and self-respect to accept that as less than an obvious and public punishment. People in that position just try to move on or retire.

As far as liberal goes --- not everyone in academe is "liberal". A good number of my friends are academics or the spouses of academics. They run the gamut from hard-core neo-con to liberal. Most, however, are moderate independents just like the rest of the country. I don't know so much about "liberals" but I do think that there are probably more "progressives" in academia than the country as a whole. Putting labels on people is not my thing (and especially in these days when people don't even know what most of the labels actually mean.)

The part about Socrates is that critical thinking is one of the hardest things that you can "teach" to young people. To a non-educator outsider or even an insider administrator, I was saying that the Socratic method could look very bizarre. The Socratic method is a 3,000-year-old form of inquiry and debate between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to stimulate rational thinking and to illuminate ideas. It often involves an oppositional discussion in which the defense of one point of view is pitted against the defense of another; one participant may lead another to contradict him or herself in some way, strengthening the inquirer's own point. But to an outside observer it might look like the professor was favoring one position or another when he was actually just trying to stimulate discussion.

Chris,

Thank you for pointing out the fallacy of the 'job for life' comment. It really irks me people think tenure is some cush permanent job offer. It irks me further that a journalist would do so little fact checking as to perpetuate such mythical beliefs. Tenure is NOT a job for life. That is far from the truth of the situation.

Obviously, tenure provides no protection for people breaking the law. There was a commented asking when was the last time someone was fired - if people aren't fired for breaking the law it is the fault of administrators and politicos not doing their jobs. If someone looks the other way while laws are broken they should BOTH be fired. Tenure is not a job for life, tenure represents people who have dedicated years of their life to pursuing knowledge, research, and the life of the mind.

Waterdog, what if that person is the BEST in their field?

I got accepted to Lycomming. I don't know if you heard of it, but it has one of the BEST archeological programs in the country, with two of the programs proffessors being renowned in their field.

They have tenure, so they have a job for life.

Why?

Because they are the among the BEST IN THEIR FIELD. Imagine taking a college class in Medicine or Academia. That is at LEAST 8 years spent not having fun, but studying like mad. After eight years, you graduate, get a job. Life is easy, right?

Wrong.

You then spend even more years becomming the best you can be, then finally get accepted as a professor at a very good University or College. By this point in your life you are, more likely than not, in your 40's.

Remember, you started this process around the ages of 18 to 20.

Thats 20 years of working your way to the top and becomming the best, and showing it to the world, and you DON'T DESERVE TO KEEP YOUR JOB?

No offence mate, but what you just said is morally criminal.

Mikey: I'm the best in my field, but I don't deserve any position for life. PERIOD.

DJ: Sorry, mate, but I don't understand your post. Blame it on 20 years in the public education system. Just don't get it.

Chris: "Tenured but inept." I rest my case. I realize that I'm just another one of those hateful posters, but I've had TOO many of those professors. See comment to DJ above for proof.

To repeat, NO ONE deserves a position for life. NO ONE!

TENURE status granted to an employee, usually after a probationary period, indicating that the position or employment is permanent.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Think it's hard for schools to get bad teachers out of the classroom? Turns out teachers agree. More than half of teachers believe it's too difficult to weed out ineffective teachers who have tenure, and nearly half say they personally know such a teacher, according to a survey released Tuesday evening by the Education Sector, a non-partisan think tank.

Tenure provides teachers with job security and generally is awarded a few years after educators enter the profession. It is supposed to ensure teachers can't be fired at the whim of a principal or angry parent.

But it also can make it extremely difficult to dismiss a teacher who is doing a bad job.

Tenure is for teachers who can't hold real jobs.

So don't blow to much smoke up your arse.

Trying to get a teacher fired who is granted tenure takes an act of God. Try to get someone fired from their job if they have belonged to a union to 20 years.

Those loser Longshoremen come to mind. The biggest worthless piece of crap men in the world. .........HANDS DOWN. All drugged out drunken losers. And if TENURE stops or inhibits in any way from teachers getting fired, they are no better.

Every teacher strike or renegotiation I have ever read about involves the removal of tenure from the contract. The Teachers Unions crap their drawers every time and say Hell No! They may be many things but they aren't stupid.

Thanks Chris-537131 ,

I appreciate your posts on this subject of tenure. What happened in UAH is very tragic

I also appreciate those who strive to become tenured proffessors at our universities . It takes great effort and dedication

Chris,

Just as I was about to exit this site because of the incredible display of opinions with no basis in fact, inaccurate conclusions and just plain stupid comments, I read your comments. THANK YOU for your intelligent, well-reasoned, focused and accurate post. It may take a reasoned and trained mind to comprehend much of what you have said, which I have in short supply on occasion, but I am sure that the majority of the population appreciates that most of their doctors, lawyers and other professionals who are charged with their well-being were educated in the skill and art of critical thinking, even if they don't recognize the idea of the Socratic method. Thanks to your wife for her contribution to society. Oh, and I am not a liberal but a card-carrying Republican.

Mobile

Chris...I too, want to thank you for your very informative, patient, and worthwhile posts. I really appreciate your taking the time to explain so clearly and fully, something like professor tenure, that most of us have little understanding of. Best of Luck to you.

Tom Poplicaandriotes,

If the job's that bad, then walk out and don't come back. Shooting up the joint will not change anything, and just get "you" in a world of stinky in the process. Call me irresponsible, but I've walked off jobs before when warranted---and the only thing that'd keep me from doing it in the future is being married. But when it's time to go, brother, it's time to $%#@!** go.

Better to hit the door than drop a hammer on innocent people. Being denied tenure is no reason to shoot somebody, even if the somebody (or somebodies) in question are a bunch of stuffed shirts.

My sympathies to the victims and their families. This professor was also questioned years ago related to an incident regarding a pipe bomb mailed to her boss at the time, though no charges were ever filed. The Braintree, Mass. police are considering reopening the case of the shooting death of her brother. Wonder why she was denied tenure. I read the original denial was overturned at a higher level and then reinstated.

Anais,

A candidate for tenure is always told why they did not get tenure. This gives them a shot at improving in weak areas and coming back again. What they do not get to know is who voted for or against them and what the vote count was. Everything else about tenure or promotion proceedings are kept very confidential so that the professors on a tenure or promotion committee fan feel to speak freely.

Dave - I totally agree! Too bad they can't kill her five times!

BOOO HOOO.....geez WAHHHHH for you! But you love it here right?.....Or do you want to live in the Middle East? You may most difinitely go back if you want! ....quit your whining!!

Batishikan,

Oh, Pah-leeeze!

Which country did America bomb because Hasan shot up Fort Hood? What law-abiding Muslims were rounded up and thrown into camps? What extraordinary measures were taken against Islam because a stupid kid tried to set off a bomb in his drawers on a civilian airliner on Christmas Day? The answers are nowhere, no one and none.

Muslims killed 3,000 office workers on 9/11 and George W. Bush reached out to the Muslim community. Where was the pogrom? There wasn't one...even though many people in the USA saw some Muslims dancing in the streets overseas because they felt Bin Laden had done a great thing. And I say they are entitled to think that...just like I'm entitled to think that there are some people in the Muslim world who deserve to die, and I hope the CIA, FBI, Delta Force, the SEALs, the US military and law enforcement sends every single one of them to their graves.

Stop listening to those fifth-column liars at CAIR, ISNA and Al-Jazeera. You'll stay on the subject a lot better.

And I hope this selfish woman answers for this heinous crime. Let her have that Harvard diploma for decoration in her cell...preferably on death row.

It's obvious that brains do not grow on trees in Braintree, MA.

A pump shotgun typically holds three shells or more (some states restrict the number of shells that can be in a shotgun.)

made their bed,

you are so wrong! It's likely that brains 'only' grow on trees in Braintree, MA.

Logic...thank you for yours!!

hey Dragon, I've been looking for you on other posts like; the axe murder in Las Vegas..or the man who stabbed his wife to death in a parking lot, or the mentally challenged girl in PA. that was bludgeoned to death,

BUT.. alas you only seen to troll the sites that deal with gun violence. I can only assume you only CARE if someone is killed with a firearm.

PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE..NOT THINGS

That's right, and what "thing" do people kill with twice as much as all other "things" combined?

Dragonwagon5- That's right, and what "thing" do people kill with twice as much as all other "things" combined?

So all that really matters is the percentages change? How about we find solutions to violence, like tougher punishment!

Just a thought!

Quiet as it's kept... if guns vanished off the earth today, there'd still be murder. Perhaps it wouldn't be as easy to commit as pointing gun/pulling trigger.

Guns were banned in Australia; the law-abiding turned theirs in, the criminals did not. The crime rate exploded, because the bad guys were basically assured that they wouldn't end up in a firefight and, worse, getting their heads blown off by a citizen packin' heat of his own.

How many outrages might have prevented in this country (Like, say, Columbine) if a truly sane & sober citizen had been able to bust a cap in some dirtbag's head? For that matter, how many are prevented? Last number I heard was 2,000,000.

Let's not turn this into something about gun control. Call it what it is: a crazy lady who had a history of violence dating back to murdering her brother in 1968 being allowed to skate on that, and then skate on until now.

This is not, as someone else has posted, about Barack Obama, the liberal (or conservative) press, health care reform or the war in Iraq. Let's ask the correct questions on this, starting (IMO) with: why was this head case still walking the streets?

Perhaps, but all of that did not combine her killing three people. Her pschological undoing was not because of tenure.. if so than that would have been in play when she shot her brother. Nice try though. Play again later.

Why shouldn't they? Jogging is good for you.

Good one JM5!

Uneducated hillbillies and hicks? Vs what? Her being an extremist? Are you actually defending her?

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/9390

With three degrees, I think I qualify to speak about "higher education". We need more talk about personal and corporate and judicial responsibility to put people away that are dangerous (and have previously proven so).

Just send her back to Harvard.

Craig,

Let's try and answer some of your questions.

1. the police will reopen this as the original police chief at the time was the one who called off the original investigation and filing of charges.

2. With no formal charges and no conviction there is nothing there for the school to view in their due diligence. There is no disqualification without a conviction.

3. Tenure is earned by scholarly works and performance. She was seen as odd and the committee that votes on this no doubt didn't want this odd wad around for ever.

4. It's in the news due to the fact that "Tenure" is a hot topic in many circles from High Schools to colleges. It is not always performance based and to get rid of a bad teacher or professor with tenure is nearly impossible. this has to change.

You don't have the facts on numbers 1-3, so I don't see how you can provide accurate answers...

and 4 is very Debatable.

Due to President's Day I had some time to look for a decent read about this case and this article is the best so far with far more real information.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0215/1224264466570.html

Craig,

Numbers 1,2, and 3 are completely accurate.

A school or business can indeed consider events in one's background. There does not have to be a "conviction".

I agree that tenure is a bad process all the way around. It's application can prohibit a good teacher from succeeding and can protect a bad teacher after gaining tenure.

Doctor Larry,

I must disagree with you on your opinion about tenure. It isn't the tenure process that is protecting a bad teacher, it is bad leadership. Many universities have differentiated tenure track processes for those that teach a heavier load and those that do more research. Being a good teacher would never work against someone gaining tenure! It might not be enough however at a research oriented school. And, again, it should never protect a BAD teacher - if there is someone that is not doing an adequate job in any of their job areas they can absolutely be fired but must follow due process. Don't blame the tenure process for what should be accomplished by lazy administrators. The process of tenure is not perfect but it does have a very important function in academia.

Maybe I was unclear. You are right that it depends on who enforces and how the policy is enforced. However, there have been numerous cases I am aware of where a great teacher does not get tenure because they don't check off all the boxes required - you know like publish or perish. So it does work against an otherwise great teacher sometimes.

I have also run across cases where teachers that perhaps were good at one time are still protected, but they should not be. That's why the process is bad. I don't see any reason to have tenured positions.

Life has no guarantees and neither should an important job.

They might respond that she has a habit of trying to eliminate people who don't agree with her own assessment of her worth. And, that the gun she used in Huntsville was unregistered and illegal. Current gun laws don't stop people who want to get them at any cost.

They might also say that in the case of the pipe bomb, if she were guilty, she chose a more lethal weapon than a gun, it was sent to an office where many other innocent people could have been killed if had detonated and not getting a gun in the Alabama incident might have inspired her to concoct a bomb that would have destroyed many more innocent lives than she did, including students.

That was not the question! She shot her brother with a gun that was bought "for protection". And think about your "pipe bomb" analogy for a moment - it's a lot easier to get a gun and kill the intended target than it would be to make a pipe bomb and hope it kills the intended target without killing youself.

The reason "current gun laws don't stop people who want to get them at any cost" is because the NRA has used the 2nd Amendment and pit-bull lobbying to circumvent all proposed gun-control legislation in every state. Thus anyone can cross a city border or state line and get whatever gun they want. It's much more difficult to do so in Canada, Japan, Australia, and England and thus they have per-capita gun death and injury rates less than 10% of the rates in the United States. Check out the Centers for Disease Control web site if you don't believe me.

Consider this, GS -- We can ban all guns in America and only give our law enforcement tasers.

Over 20 million illegal PEOPLE are in this country, just from crossing the southern border -- and that's a conservative estimate. Do you honestly think that guns can be stopped from crossing the border?

All that complete gun prohibition in America will accomplish is to create a smuggling market that will make the problems with drugs crossing the border a distant memory.

And in the event you can't get a smuggled one, there is always a web site or book in the library that can teach you how to make one. Or shall we purge the Internet and libraries of this information as well? Perhaps send militia to invade the homes of every citizen to make sure they don't have reading material on the matter lying around?

Take the guns, and you'll never keep up with the IED's and molotov cocktails. Street gangs will be placing IED's along the routes of every pathway their "enemies" take, including schools and shopping malls.

Hey GS, there is a trend here. Incompetent police work and intelligence putting innocent people at risk. Happened here, and at Ft Hood, and probably daily throughout the country. And your solution is to allow only the authorities who fail in these cases, to be armed for their self defence.

GS - you should ask the question to those that want to take away 2nd amendment rights. They are the morons.

She told police at the time that she had been trying to learn how to use the gun, which her father had bought for protection, when it accidentally discharged."

"accidently discharged"...... THREE times?

If someone believes that, they are a moron.

GS - And think about your "pipe bomb" analogy for a moment - it's a lot easier to get a gun and kill the intended target than it would be to make a pipe bomb and hope it kills the intended target without killing yourself.

GS -You can purchase all the components to make a bomb at Wal-Mart.

How does the anti-gun crowd explain Campus life in Israel? You know the country where Professors and Students alike, are heavily 'Strapped' at all times. One of the Safest Education systems in the world.

GUNFREE ZONES are now proven to be the deadliest places to be, in the Liberal USA, where Career, Violence Prone, Repeat Offenders are encouraged to roam among Law Abiding Society. Thank the 2nd Amendment of 'The Bill of Rights', for the great right to the OMEGA DEFENSE, a Citizens last choice.. Freedom... wouldn't trade it for anything.

That is also the definition of first degree murder!

According to those who remember the missing police report (not the "official" one) officers stated that she shot her brother, then shot holes in a wall and the ceiling, ran out side with the gun, and aimed it at a passing motorist. This sounds like an accident?

Touche

Actually,you are the one "acting stupidly" with this idiotic comment. Prof. Gates,unlike this wacko, was not on any kind of a rampage,had no gun,and was simply trying to enter HIS OWN HOME. How does that compare to an emotionally disturbed woman shooting people because she didn't get what she wanted? Maybe on your planet they are the same thing. On Earth they are not.

Wanda, good shot (no pun intended)!

I gotta open this can of worms. Professor Gates was/is a black man who was perceived to be breaking into "a" house in Massachusetts, yet didn't have a firearm on him and (as far as I know) has never been implicated in any sort of crime whatsoever.

Professor Bishop was/is a white woman who is uncomfortably close to (before this incident) a murder, an act of terrorism (if sending somebody a d*mn bomb isn't terrorism I don't know what is) and an assault & battery yet has either escaped meaningful punishment or received a slap on the wrist. I'm not trying to make Amy Bishop my life's focus (not by a LONG shot), but according to the media the murder and the assault also occurred in Massachusetts.

Maybe Obama was actually on to something here. Looks like there's some people on the force up in good ol' Mass. that need to lose their jobs. Something is waaay fishy here to me.

Gadzooks! I think I just played the race card...?

As for those who have been posting that no one should have a consequence-free job for life, I completely agree. And that includes the Supreme Court Justices.

Agree. And that should apply to all judges and members of Congress.

Screminini, we've agreed before on threads. Thank you for the post. Someone needs to make sense here.

She gave Harvard alum, Barack Obama, and Bill Ayers, tenured college professor, as references.

Read my post at #19. Every word is true. Anyone who wants to be pro-active to help prevent another tragedy like this needs to attend their town council meetings, open School Board meetings, and solicit their state representatives to insist that full disclosure be practiced by anyone who is solicited for a recommendation for a law enforcement officer or anyone in the education field. These two areas affect our lives and our children's lives more than any other.

How did George W. Bush get a government job with three felony charges (two reduced to misdemeanors)? Cocaine possession is still pretty serious.

And the people who want to think that it is equally bizarre that someone can teach with a felony conviction in their past: Laura Bush "forgot" to list a manslaughter conviction on her application for teaching certificate in Texas. When this came to light when W was running for governor, her teaching certificate was "annulled."

In fact, Alberto Gonzales was instrumental in getting governor Bush out of jury duty where he would have been required to list his cocaine conviction and was the person who talked the authorities in Texas into "annulling" Laura's license instead of pressing charges as the law required.

So these things occasionally slip through the cracks.

Teddy-boy Kennedy got away with vehicular homicide, cheating in college, womanizing, and was a common drunk and the libs put him on a pedestal?

Gimme a break, lmao!!!!!

Once again the question is asked about how could she get this job with what is in her background. How was anyone going to know about this? She is not required to say she was a person of interest or not charged for a crime. Only if your convicted of a crime do you have to divulge this fact. Dr. Larry seems to believe in magical thinking but I have been in this mess before with a potential hire. I found out some information after he was accepted because he had not been convicted. Nothing we could do at the time, without risking being sued at the time.

President Obama and no other Harvard alum are involved in covering up her past. That would fall squarely on the shoulders of the corrupt former police chief who released her because he knew her mother who served on the personnel board of the Braintree, Mass. police department. Could you just stick to the facts so you don't poison the jury pool?

What isn't new, mr. nothing new here, is corruption in police departments that undermines the good work of many brave men like the one that disarmed and arrested her as she walked around with the shotgun.

Thank you, oldnewgrad, RN!

How did Obama get into this anyway? I swear, there are some right-wing nuts in this country that'd blame the man if the milk sours in their 'fridge tonight...

Of course she was "mum" about her past! What was she gonna do, get up in a lecture hall and tell the kids, "Lemme tell you about the time I put two shells of double-aught into my brother, helped send a pipe bomb to some guy and laid the smack down on some bee-yotch in a restaurant because she got the last child booster seat when I needed it! Some come to class and do your work, or I'll come in here with my gat and let loose on all your sorry, snotty-nosed punk mo-fos!"

I say a 3 ft x 7 ft box, 6 ft under.

She is a white upper-middle class Harvard graduate from Massachusetts, and from the news stories it appears that her family was moderately politically connected.

How is that diversity?

She is a white upper-middle class Harvard graduate from Massachusetts, and from the news stories it appears that her family was moderately politically connected.

All of those things were red flags to a job in Alabama. Harvard, stay home.

Doctor Larry, why did you feel it necessary, in your first post, to tell us that you have THREE degrees? Please answer...

>Doctor Larry, why did you feel it necessary, in your first post, to tell us that you have THREE degrees? Please answer...

It could be three high school degrees for all I know. He's probably trying to just back up that he's three times more familiar with various academic environment.. right? Dr. Larry??

Anyway, this incidence as well as the incidence in Fort *** where the army psychiatrist went on a rampage will make us scrutinize each other's past under the microscope and should anyone has any past 'psychiatric episodes' even such as, dunno, diagnosed depression as a red flag. It'll make it difficult for people

This woman is a sociopath. They are adept at fooling the people around them. Anti-social behavior, contrary to popular belief, does not mean the person shuns society. In fact, they are often seen as pillars of a community.

Her work did not stress her out and make her flip. She killed her brother, who was an accomplished musician. Maybe he was getting the bulk of the attention in her family. Jealousy killing, perhaps?

Life is tough. Get on with it, without killing anyone.