Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comIsrael says it will build nearly 700 new apartments in East Jerusalem, drawing criticism from Palestinians and the United States, which denounce the plan as an obstacle to peacemaking.
You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
'Legendary' Beau Sancy diamond sells for $9.57 million at Sotheby's auction'We still need to live': Jaded Mexicans find distractions to horrors of violenceTeacher raises $10K, will shave her headU.S., Pakistan on verge of reopening supply linesUS-led imperative in peril as trained Afghans turn enemyNo-bake emotipopsChicago braces for violence at NATO summitPoliticsNation, Thursday, April 26, 2012Romney wins Nebraska presidential primary'King Tut' makes last stop in Seattle
Leave a Comment:
Apartments vs. nuclear fuel processing plants. Which one gets more criticism?
Any why does either side pay any attention to empty US pronouncements or "threats"?
Apparently nobody care about the fuel processing plants and the 300-600 nukes Israel have are a threat to Middle East Peace.
Israel DOES NOT want peace.
"Any why does either side pay any attention to empty US pronouncements or "threats"?"
But they pay attention to our financial aid, don't they?
boons, they sure do, and that is why we need to cut all aid to Israel.
East Jerusalem is Jeusalem no east or west ,just as in Berlin at the end one city...divided cities don`t . work....and this is the capital of Isreal just as Berlin is of Germany... The Muslims can`t be trusted to administer a 3 religion area how about a divided Mecca??? One half for the Muslims and the other half for the infidels.... ...
Never in my life have I EVER seen such hypocrisy on the part of Israel, the US and the rest of the World. Israel continues to practice crimes against humanity by the manner in which they treat the Palestinians. Gaza is nothing less than a Polish ghetto during WWII. Do onto others as you would have done to you. Stop sending my tax dollars to Israel until they begin to treat all human beings properly.
C'mon Peter, get real. Isreal is there because the U.S. wants it there. We need to have a friendly pro-Western nation in the middle east that we can count on whenever we need it. They have nukes because the U.S. allowed them to aquire them. There are no crimes against humanity. Isreali's are under constant threat on daily basis, the leaders have to respond. Gaza is the way it is because that is how the leadership makes it. That is what they are used to. They are animals and must be treated as such.
"There are no crimes against humanity."
Really?
"Isreali's are under constant threat on daily basis, the leaders have to respond."
Why are they under constant threat? Action, re-action. Cause and effect?
"They are animals and must be treated as such."
Do you REALLY think in such fashion or did you only have a lapse of reason? Painting with such a broad brush really makes your statements moot.
It is ridiculous and two faced for us to object to building in East Jerusalem. Israel annexed the area decades ago and has not only improved the area but has also kept the area accessible to people of all religions.
Demanding Israel not build in East Jerusalem is like demanding that we Americans stop building in California. We annexed California from Mexico for the same reasons that Israel annexed East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.
Israel wants the daily double, Peace and Piece. Palestine can have whatever fits into Israel's picture... On the other hand, Palestine also wants the daily double, Peace and Piece. Unfortunately, Palestine has nothing to pay for it...
No pay, no play... simple concept. Being an annoying and whinning child in the market is not help their cause.
I don't know about anyone else, but I would definately not be first in line to rent one of these apartments. Sounds like a good way to get blown up.
If you built a tree house to live in in my back yard, I would probably blow it up too.
Sure you would. Or if I was going to launch some artillery at you to stop you, I might accidentally destroy my own tree house.
Sounds like a bad idea for both sides. The one thing this definetly shows is that Israel is not interested in peace.
Neither side is looking for peace. Both of them want complete domination of thier sacred land and will pay any price for it. The trouble is, thier sacred lands are on top of each other.
Yes, John, that is the problem. But, the only ones that I see trying to take more than they already have is Israel.
Yep 8) Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and they will never allow for it to be cut up & sharing that is out of the question. It was the capital long before the Palestinians arrived. Israel does not need support from any country they can handle themselves just fine.
It was their capital 2000+ years ago and they lost it for that long, now they don't want to share once it was stolen for them.
Big Al: Just how well do you think they would take care of themselves without our billions going over there every year?
The Populace is armed to the teeth, kinda like we are here in the states. They have nukes we have nukes. The military is one thing the populace is another. The state of Israel is surrounded by there enemies so arming the populace guarantees there survival a little longer 8).....The Jews will never ever again be stripped of there arms.
best estimates are about 45% or 52 million of American households owning 260 million guns). There are about 80 million gun owners in America with a combining total of 258 million guns.
Well for goodness sakes whatever you do do not tell the Israelis what not to do...
Let's see we float them huge amounts of money (never to be repaid) We give them weapons of mass destruction and keep it a secret. We feign concern when they level a city or two. We run to their side when Hezbollah or Hamas fire pathetic artillery because it is random! Perhaps it better they have guidance systems and this way they would not be in violation of several treaties! We condone their imprisoning of thousands of Palestinians (without trial or conviction (well pretty hard to when doing the same ourselves). We claim Palestinians are in violation of international law (That's a joke). Now we are starving them to death because the Israelis are saying along with the concrete needed to rebuild what they flattened in the last go around the Palestinians may be secretly hiding weapons. Are we for real?
Now we wonder why the Israelis announce the building of 700 new Jewish settlement homes in occupied territory, which is against International law. Give the Palestinians a break, kill them all with one massive bombing run and be done with it. We can then all sit around and say...Hey that's not right! same same right only faster is better than this agonizing strangling of a people, oh and while we are at it the Israelis are none to fond of those Jordanians so we may as well get that done at th same time. God we are barbaric!
Israel is just a big bully supported whole heartedly by the U.S.
When are we going to get tired of the state of Israel being the one country that has more to do or at least as much to do with the problems we face in the world. It is time to change our policy on the Middle East and tell them we are no longer going to support there government....
I just wonder why the rest of the world isn't screaming about the number of UN sanctions that Israel has broken in the past (it would make Iran look like nothing).
To the victor goes the spoils...oh and stspecialk you have issues. Why do you have such love for a group of people who have done nothing but been violent, aggressive and whose culture is barbaric?? It is not what Israel has done that makes those nasty, filthy, 3rd world palastinians so violent, it is that there IS an Israel. If Israel was a 10 mile square plot of land....they would still be crying foul.
Why don't you go live among those heathens if you think they are such wonderful people.
troll
stspecialk.
st special k...hmmmm.
What are you? The patron saint of ketamine abuse?
Maybe not but, you are no stanger to spin, hyperbole, and doublespeak.
If I were to stoop to your level I'd finding myself throwing cute little one-liners at you such as, "Orwellian toad" that would whiz right over your crew-cut.
Look out! Neeeeowwww!
Samaria and Judea is Israel's backyard. Why do you think it has been known as Judea and Samaria for Milenia?
The Jewish presence in the West Bank and Gaza Strip ended only with the 1948 War of Independence. Conquering these territories in a war of aggression aimed at destroying the nascent State of Israel, the Jordanians and Egyptians totally eliminated the Jewish presence in the West Bank and Gaza, forbidding Jews to live there and declaring the sale of land to Jews in those areas a capital offense.
It is worth noting that Jordanian and Egyptian rule came about as the result of their illegal invasion of 1948, in open contempt and rejection of UN General Assembly Resolution 181, which would have partitioned the British Mandate territory into a Jewish State and an Arab State. For this reason, the Egyptian and Jordanian seizures of the territories were never recognized by the international community.
Ixor, I will not stoop to insults. I will just remind you that prior to the UN resolution there was NEVER in the history of the world a country of Israel. Therefore the land had to be taken from someone.
st special k,
To whom were you referring to as a "Troll" Or was that a compliment you were stooping with where you come from?
At least I got four sentences from you, which it and of itself, a "sort of compliment" if it wasn't for the modicum of thought. Opps sorry!
You make it so easy.
Oh that's rich.
I was saying that ronnieray was being a troll in that the whole purpose of his post was to incite fighting. Many of your posts fall on the border of that term as well, except that you do include arguments while still trying to start fights.
As for my comment on their never having been a country or politicaly recognized government remains true.
you are back peddling specialk
You simply could have that his style of writing appears to you as being inciteful.
I suspect you are appearing to be too sensitive.
Your county being recognized statement is not true. you havent done your homework and probably won't. What is true is that you are merely sticking statements.
The UN is a tragic joke.
And they don'thave the ____— to sanction Iran and since Libya chairs the UNHRC they sure won't sanction Sudan, Russia for bombing the snot out of Chechnya, Georgia no matter how many millions are killed or made refuges. You think they will sanction us for Iraq?
What does that have to do with Israel and our support?
the u.n sanctions like their phony human rights council with members like Cuba Libia and many other dictatorships is a joke....when they sanction China for Tibet ...Russia for Chechnia England for Ireland these are real iron fist boots. the world must support Isreal the only democratic non Muslim country that wil keep Jerusalem open.. A Muslim part of Jerusalem will begin to persecute Christians and Jews just as they do almost everywhere..NO WAY !!!!
stspecialk
The Un and UNHRC has been co-opted by thugs who use it as their bully pulpit.
stspecialk,
You spit vitiol such as "Liars and Theives! and then have the gall to insinuate that I am angry...
really now
Oooh the overly educated stspecialk, never was a country called Israel???? Please ask the Italians to rewrite their history books. Seems to me I read somewhere that Rome occupied Israel land of the Jews, now that I have read a new, more accurate version of history, I can plainly see that Rome occupied Palastine land of the Arabs. Thank you oh enlightened one for teaching me the errors of my ways. Is there any other historical facts that need correcting?? Please inform all of us illiterates the true history of the world because it seems we have been misled. Thank God there are people like you to set the record straight. All this time I was thinking that those ruins in Israel were things like jewish temples and dwellings......then I find out that in truth they are really palastinian buildings.
I think Archie said it best.......stspecialk, you are a meathead
So the taxpayers in this country are funding some more housing. Its time to completely shut off the funding to Israel... they can fight their own wars...Of course Odumbo will apologize to the world for anything Israel does because its what he does best..
It seems to me that Obama is making the move to apologize to the rest of the world FOR our support of Israel. Maybe we are actually beginning to have a foreign policy that doesn't support the bully.
stspecialk~~And, it's about time.
Hey, U.S. government ----- Stay the Hell out of it and let Israel do what it pleases in regard to the Palestinians as well as the relationships it has with it's neighboring countries. HOWEVER --- Do not provide Israel with another DIME of financial aid. Let them make it on their own. As a matter of fact, cease ALL aid to every country in the world for a period of one year and see what the situation is at that time. Devote those funds to helping our own citizens with medical assistance, housing and educational aid. OUR CITIZENS --- first and foremost !
I like that 1 year plan. We can't just stop completely, there are too many true humanitarian issues that need to be helped, but providing Israel with more money to torture and steal is completely unnecessary and the main reason why the rest of the region hates us.
You got that right stop aiding them. I don't know one person who gives a crap about Israel, only about 3% of the US population is Jewish. I'm sick of my tax dollars being spent to support a religious state in their crazy theological fight over crappy desert.
The fact is the Allies screwed up the end of WW2. All the refugees should have been sent back to their own countries or offered a chance to move to the allies countries. But no, instead they chose to run the Palestinians off their land to establish a religious state and most of the world has hated us ever since. This nation building mistake is the main reason we have the radical Islam problem that we have today. Time to cut our loses. If the Israeli's think God promised them that land then God should be protecting them, not the US taxpayer.
Jang, you have me right along until you make it about religion. I totally agree, Israel was created as a Jewish state, same as a Muslism state, etc. . . What did we expect.
That path that you are on makes it aboundantly clear that you want... a 23 Islamic State?
The only folks fighting a theological war are certain very loud Muslims
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
The Palestinian demand that the pre-1967 borders form the basis of any agreement is foolish and a non-starter. However, at the same time, Israel should refrain from additional building until the borders are resolved. Building 700 units will not solve any housing shortages, but it could prolong the dispute.
If Israel won't halt the construction on its own, an amount equal to the cost of the construction should be deducted from Israel's foreign aid payment each year and given to Egypt or the Palestinians.
Pathetic artillery? TG, I'd love to see YOU standing in the path of that pathetic Iranian artillery and see how long you put up with it.
Who was talking about Iran, we are talking about the Palestinian armaments.
Cassandra-773719
Assuming you meant Palestinian and not Iranian. Palestinians have long been imprisoned by the military might of Israel, to deny that would be tantamount to the Iranians denying the Holocaust, so may assume we are not going there?
Given an option, would I choose to deal with the pathetic artillery of the Palestinian peoples versus the might of satellite guided (still indiscriminate targeting) missiles and illegal weaponry of the Israeli forces....Yes I will take my chances with the incoming blind weapons of the Palestinians.
More to the point however... Israel cannot have it's cake and eat it so if they want to cast aspersions upon Hamas then they need to stop starving the entire population of Palestine (collective punishment) also illegal under International law...Or does such law only apply when Israel wants to quote it?
I have to agree with Cassandra. Captain Cook was killed by people wielding spears.
John the Savage
Captain Cook deserved to get speared. I assume the native tossing the spear was not building on Cap'n Cooks land and that his spear was guided?
Well said, terry. Theives will always get what is coming to them one way or another, it is called Karma.
Well I don't feel particularly sorry for the captain, but my point was that no matter how primative or "pathetic" the weapon is, you don't want to be on the recieving end of it.
True, John. But in the same token no one wants to have their land stolen either.
Cassandra,
Would you seriously consider moving to Sderot?
There is plenty of goodies coming into Hamastan through Egyptian tunnels in the south. Of course you dont mention that Egypt is trying to cut that off. Those bullies in Israel let plenty of aid through (despite it aids the enemy) when Hamas snipers aren't firing the border crossings.
Egypt is only doing that because they don't want Israel as an enemy. Ixor you are just too angry.
No,
Incredulous
See now that is the type of comment that would be considered trollish.
Peace to you, I gotta go. Take a deep breath, you really do sound too angry for your own good. Remember that the only person harmed by anger is the person who is angry.
really dude...I'm not angry nor is cassandra "picking on" minnie.
The mini lecture/ advice, if you can call it that is misplaced.
srspecialk, It is you that come across as the angry one. I've been around these post long enough to have observed that you primarily come out to bash Israel when the opportunity presents itself.
For instance: A couple weeks ago when Yemen was killing more women and children than alleged terrorists the likes of you were no where to be seen. After one of the articles I was the ONLY person posting.
Most of the folks here are one-trick ponies. (I left the "h" out 'cus I'm a nice guy)
Must have been an article I missed, it is the holiday time and I am not on everyday. I don't know enough about the issue yet to comment, but I will look into it. I do know that the United States conducted a strike into Yemen that seemed (as far as press reports go that took out a good number of suspected terroristic planners.) That is the kind of strike that should be happening, not wasting thousands of lives and billions of dollars on Iraq. (what a waste)... (sorry for the families, your sons and daughters will not be forgotten or disrespected).
Wow, what I read is all true so far. I believe when the butcher of Israel delayed the construction and the role Leibermann played in the house are all connected. Palestinians have bigger problems. No one even mention that. Believe it or not, it is States like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the poppet in Egypt. The first is a bigger enemy for Palestinians than Israel. I voted for this President and only God knows how sorry I am now. I am not Arab or even religious at all. I have Arab friends and Jewish cousins that one is still lives in Israel. I am just a US citizen who sees the Israel with their allies in this country running our government.
That is why we need to remove all support to Israel.
Aaaaa-Men! israel doesn`t want peace, they want it all!
So lets sum this up
Israel runs our government- not big oil.
Lets take that idea and run with it a bit.....
So- Israel forced us to bail-out GM? Must be all that Big Oil that Israel produces. Despite all the republicans and democrats that hold office, it is one solitary Independent that has a voice and a strangle-hold on power. You been smoking somethin' that was laced from st specialk? IT sure appears that something that induces myopia and stupidity is being passed around.
I'm with you, ronnieray. It sounds like you are old enough to remember 1967
First Ixor, could you please try to keep this a legitimate page by not including an insult to every one of your comments.
Second, I should have specified in my comment that I don't agree that Jews are running our government, only that we should not be sending money to the terroristic/UN resolution ignoring stolen country of Israel.
Spspecial k,
Relax, I was responding to Ray- this his special thread......
with the exception of the note to ronnieray
"The United States said it opposed Jewish settlement construction in occupied land..."
Occupied land? The so called Palestinians( refers to Arabs who lived or are living in Palestine but should refer to anyone who has or is living permanently in "Palestine" a Roman not Arab creation) think all of Israel is occupied territory just as some think that all the land on Earth controlled by the infidels is occupied territory. The Israelis think that the Palestinian Arabs are illegitimately occupying their God given homeland just as the Ottoman Turks, Romans, Greeks, Persians and Babylonians once did.
The solution that leads to destruction for all will be a win/lose solution. It will not matter who is the supposed winner. The solution that leads to peace will be a winlose/winlose solution where an Israel/Palestine government is set up that protects religious freedom and the equal rights of all humans living in Israel Palestine to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It has worked in the U.S. of A. for a few hundred years.
Great sentiment and comment, Spirit. Religion just screws everything up when it comes to land and politics.
Only when it applies to Israel's side of the isle. Right stspecialk?
And be comforted Spirit... Israel to their credit does not think that Palestinian arabs are illegitimate (except a extreme minority of a minority of certain hassids)- they feel that the palestinians are merely very naughty when they strap on bomb belts to their more gullible women and children, lob rockets intentinally aimed at civilians, teach hatred in their Primary school textbooks, Kiddy TV shows etc.
there is only one religion that believes
For Jews to be self determining anywhere near where they live in the M.E. or the world for that matter is anathema to their raison d'etre. That is major reason the "Palestinian leadership never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity" It is a HUGE tragedy. It is very hard for us in the west to wrap are heads around that the existence of that impasse and great divide. It has taken Christians centuries to "chill" and they still are working on it in some quarters...
Remember the hope we had when Obama extended his hand for dialog?
It was received as a sign of weakness and Iran poked us in the eye.
Nice post Spirit. Your heart is in the right place.
I could probably keep up with you tit for tat when it comes to those types of writings in the Koran vs/ the New Testament. Both believe in an Apocalypse of biblical proportions. Unless you are hoping for Armageddon, you should hope that is not the way things turn out.
Keep it up, guys, especially Minnie the Hutt. You are proving why Israel must fight to exist.
1. Fight to exist, I will give you that. But not keep taking land
2. Why pick on minnie? they have made 1 comment on this whole thread.
Are the West Bank and Gaza "occupied territories" as Palestinain Arabs assert?
As a result of the Six Day War, Israel gained all of Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, Sinai, the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank (historically known as Judea and Samaria). Palestinian Arabs often insist on using the term "occupied territories" to describe these areas, usually connected to the assertion that they fall under the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention. Yet, Palestinian spokesmen also speak about Israeli military action in Area A as an invasion, an infringement on Palestinian sovereignty. The use of both forms of terminology is a contradiction. If Israel "invaded Palestinian territories" in the present, then they cannot be regarded as "occupied"; however, if the territories are defined as "occupied," Israel cannot be "invading" them.
Israeli legal experts traditionally resisted efforts to define the West Bank and Gaza Strip as "occupied" or falling under the main international treaties dealing with military occupation. Former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Meir Shamgar wrote in the 1970s that there is no de jure applicability of the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention regarding occupied territories to the case of the West Bank and Gaza Strip since the Convention:
In fact, prior to 1967, Jordan had occupied the West Bank and Egypt had occupied the Gaza Strip; their presence in those territories was the result of their illegal invasion in 1948. Jordan's 1950 annexation of the West Bank was recognized only by Great Britain and Pakistan and rejected by the vast majority of the international community, including the Arab states.
International jurists generally draw a distinction between situations of "aggressive conquest" and territorial disputes that arise after a war of self-defense. Former US State Department Legal Advisor Stephen Schwebel, who later headed the International Court of Justice in the Hague, wrote in 1970 regarding Israel's case:
Israel only entered the West Bank in 1967 after repeated Jordanian artillery fire and ground movements across the previous armistice lines; additionally, Iraqi forces crossed Jordanian territory and were poised to enter the West Bank. Under such circumstances, even the United Nations rejected Soviet efforts to have Israel branded as the aggressor in the Six-Day War.
Regardless of how many times the Palestinian Arabs claim otherwise, Israel cannot be characterized as a "foreign occupier" with respect to the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Fundamental sources of international legality decide the question in Israel's favor. The last international legal allocation of territory that includes what is today the West Bank and Gaza Strip occurred with the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine which recognized Jewish national rights in the whole of the Mandated territory, including the sector east of the Jordan River, almost 80% of the original Mandated territory, that was given to Palestinian Arabs and Emir Abdullah to create the country of Trans-Jordan (later renamed Jordan). Moreover, the rights under the Mandate were preserved under the United Nations as well, according to Article 80 of the UN Charter, after the termination of the League of Nations in 1946.
It is important to observe that, from the time these territories were conquered by Jordan, Syria and Egypt in 1948 to the time they were gained by Israel in 1967, the territories were not refered to as "occupied" by the international community. Furthermore, the people living in those territories before 1967 were not called "Palestinians" as they are today; they were called Jordanians and Egyptians. (In fact, before Israel was founded Jews and Arabs alike who lived in the region were called Palestinians. The newspaper was the "Palestine Bulletin" and later the "Palestine Post" before becoming today's "Jerusalem Post", the Jewish-founded electric company was "Palestine Electric" and so on.) There was no call for "liberation" or "national rights" for the Arabs living there and no Palestinian nation was discussed.
No UN resolution requires Israel to withdraw unilaterally from the territories, nor do they forbid Israelis from going there to live. In particular, the often-misquoted UN Security Council Resolution 242 (and related Resolution 338) make no such demand or requirement. The demand that Israel stop creating "illegal settlements" is similarly baseless.
Under the Oslo Accords, the "peace process" started in 1991 at the Madrid Conference, Israel agreed to withdraw from the disputed territories and Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority (PA) was given control over land chosen so that more than ninety-nine percent of the Palestinian population lived under the jurisdiction of the PA. But the committment to Israel's security that was the backbone of the Oslo agreements was never honored by the PA and Israel was forced to periodically re-enter the ceded territory to quell terrorism. In 2000, Yasser Arafat rejected sweeping concessions by Israel at Camp David -- promoted by US Pres. Clinton in an attempt to reach a final peace agreement -- and the Palestinian Arabs turned again to violence with the Al Aqsa Intifada. That is, after the PA was governing nearly all Palestinian Arabs and a generous peace offer with international backing was on the table, the only response Israel got was increased violence. This is the sole reason Isreal continues to have a military presence in the disputed territories.
Sources and additional reading on this topic:
Thanks for all the research. You do make good points. The problem is that Israel refuses to respect the rights of Palestinians inside Israel. They are treated as second class citizens. Second, you mention only one of the 22 UN resolutions against Israel and its' actions in the region. Finally, even you agree that prior to the creation of the country of Israel by the UN, there has never, ever, ever, ever been a country of Israel. That implies that the land was taken from different countries and a new country with a new, religious based, government was created. Whether done through legal channels or not, Israel was created by decree, in the US we call that eminent domain and they at least have to pay you for your land.
Israel continues to say they want peace, but they won't do the one thing that the Palestinians and the rest of the world request. They are liars and thieves.
spspecialk,
Yes, Israel has some warts. Warts can be cured. Israel is a Democracy. True democracies are hard to find, they are aspired to. We dont have to look further than (I presume U R in the USA) the USA in over 400 years how much progress have we made concerning our treatment of minorities and illegal immigrants? In that context it is astounding that Israel has made as much progress that it has in little over 60yrs of Self Determination. There are many grass-root efforts being made to address the needs "issues" of arab-Israelis and also with less news worthy groups as the Bedouin- the largest group of non-Jewish palestinians before the 1900's...most of the modern arabsbeing immigrants themselves-history that would require another lengthy post. I believe that Israel will solve these problems. evan now the arabs in Israel have a better time of it than in Gaza, Sudan, Yeman etc. But heck, in those places and everywhere else in the M.E. they threw out ALL the Jews and ....
Speaking of lengthy post. That I did not mention or cite pre-20th century history doesn't mean abnitio there was no prior Jewish state. And certainly DOES NOT imply there was, were countries robbed of sovereign territory to create Israel from. Palestine was barely a province if anything after the Roman inflicted diaspora- except for a 90 yr stint of a king ruling over Jerusalem (remember that movie Kingdom of God?).
The onus is on thePalestinians when is comes to peace. What the Palestinians want is clearly stated in both Hamas and PLO/PA Charters; Destruction of the State of Israel through violence and No recognition of Israel in the meantime. In the face of THAT you come up with an innocuouss sounding bite. (the snake in the Junglebooks movie comes to my mind..."Just one thhhhiiiiing...") Then you resort to, "They are liars and thieves." Come on spspecialK!peeeeeuuu.
Prior to 1948 most of the Jews were on land they paid for starting in the 1880's and they paid dearly to the absentee Turkish landlords for it. In cases of eminent domain, they paid (and like in the US the evicted walk away feeling like they were not sufficientlyreimbursed- we don't strap on bombs and it doesn't make worldwide news, nor should it).
I would like to go on in more detail but I don't have time and despite my inclination to do so I can't help but think that the effort for your behalf will not do anything to sway your position or provide any enlightenment you would be inclined to retain.
Believe it or not, I felt the way you appear to now. For Decades, to put it mildly I was one of those liberal (i'mstill liberal) folks you might meet and chat with at a say "white wine reception" who would say, "I'm not a anti-Semite,I'm just an anti-zionist!" Where did come up with that? At some point I thought about it.
I was merely ape-ing other liberal friends... Reading inflammatory statements similar to the ones posted here etc and accepting it on face value since it reflected my pre-existing paradigm. Eventually, quite serendipitously I stopped and gave that some thought and decided to examine my long held beliefs (as a Unitarian we do this kind of thing). It required work: research, time, reading, visiting a synagogue a few times, finally stepping away from old modes of thinking and beliefs that I was as comfortable in as wearing a well-worn leather jacket.
take care and good luck.
ps I'm still going to call you on your....
For instance you try to bolster your arguement with a phrase like
and not mention that so does Saudi Arabia, Turkey etc.
That Israel is a nuclear power. Right. And you convieniently don't refer to Iran that proudly threatens to wipe and entire country off the map (apparently with no regard to the "palestinians" BUT THATS OK, huh(?)....) and pokes us in the eye with that.
1. Israel is not a pure democracy, it is (by all economists, etc. . . as a theocracy).
Iran does not yet have the power, but Israel already does. Therefore, no fair fight. It is like me coming at you with a set of brass knuckles and you having a shotgun.
Your arguments only show your fear more and more. Try living in Peace, someone has to start. Why them??? Why can't the Isralia's lead the cause for peace. Again it has to start somewhere, and hate and anger make that more difficult to acchieve. MLJjr. knew that he would be faced with dogs and fire hoses, but he did what was right in the name of peace.
Peace never, ever begins with the throwing of a stone.
The obstacle to peace in the Middle East, President Obama, is the Arabs. There is not one person calling for peace with Israel on the Arab side. There is not one Arab who has publicly called for recognition of the Jewish state. There is not one Arab who is willing to make a single concession for peace. There is not one Arab bigwig who has called for ending the Arab war of annihilation against Israel or calling off the Arab war of extermination against the Jewish people. The Arab/Moslems don't want peace with Israel. They desire one thing, and that is the end of Israel.
Jerusalem is the eternal capital of Israel. It's located in Judea and Samaria which you like to call the West Bank. That small area is the birthplace of Judaism and the heartland of Jewish history. Those voices in your administration calling for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Judea and Samaria are the same people who desire genocide. Please try to understand that wiping Israel off the map and eradicating the remnant of the Jewish people is going to be very bad for America and Western civilization.
Most of your comment is based on mythology not fact. Second, how do you know that the Palestinians are no longer willing to accept the state of Israel? Israel won't even stop long enough to come to the negotiation table. The instigators of all the violence in the region is Israel.
Right.
the words "Samaria" and Judea" were coined by the toothfairy of history
No, but the idea that some "god" gave a particular piece of land to one people is pure mythology, same as the Trojans and the Spartans.
Zionist israel has proven to the world by her deeds over and over again that they are against peace in the middle east. Zionist regime is like vermin that should be wiped out. Let's have regime change, get rid of all zealous religious bigots that run the israel government and put all zionist supporters like dougjmiller in re-education camp.
Doug : I believe you are wrong about there not being any Muslim calling for peace with Israel. The King of Saudi Arabia is promoting a peace plan where if Israel withdraws back to its 1967 Borders, the Arab nations would recognize Israel within those borders along with diplomatic relations between the Arab nations and Israel, similar to the relationship between Israel and Egypt. Also, and I think this is a huge concession to Israel by the Saudi King, The Palestinians would give up their right of return by receiving compensation instead.
I believe that it is Israel that doesn't want true peace in the Middle East. Netanyahu's father made a Public Statement several months ago telling Israeli settlers and other right - wingers to not abandon his son, because whatever concessions Bibi is making right now are all for show, that he will never surrender the West Bank or the Golan. I think Israel will have to lose a war before true Peace ever happens in the Mid East.
It is time now to end all support for Israel by the United States. End of story. Ask yourself this question: "Does Israel need the United States or does the United States need Israel?" You can bet your bottom dollar--it is the former.
Let Israel fight it's own wars. And you wonder why Iran doesn't like Israel! Iran's beef is not with the Jewish people--it is with the ideology of fanatic hardliners in the Israeli Govt., that have been merciless to the Palestinians for six decades.
A good book to read is: "The Israeli Holocaust Against the Palestinians", by Hoffman and Leiberman--avail. at Amazon
Only problem is that it still wouldn't be a fair fight, Israel still has all our weapons including the fact that they are the only nuclear power in the region.
Again I say please read the excellent book by Hoffman and Leiberman, "The Israeli Holocaust Against the Palestinians" avail at Amazon.
With a title like that it is clear that the authors don't have a clue...or so completely twisted to believe their own doublespeak. I wonder how they might toss around the term "apartheid".
Unless it is a satire.....
If you think Israel is merciless compared to an "entity" that exclusively targets innocent civilians as a "given" policy...fine. It is bizarre. But, here we have it: the Brave New World we live in. Thanks for your contribution to making it real, Steve.
You obviously don't know your historical authors, Lieberman and Hoffman are 2 of the most respected in their field. Why don't you try reading the book? If at the end you still feel the same way, then all you have done is wasted a few hours.
The title is so hyperbolic that it undermines anything they could say to bear out the supposed veracity that statement. It is simply intellectually disingenuous. Respected by, who? Edward Said? I'm sorry, at this point that you endorse it does not impress me.
Have you read the book yet or are you still just talking out your butt. We give you sources and you don't even give them credit. An intellectual reads and studies ALL sides of an issue, which you have not.
I gave you my reasons for not running out to buy your pet book. Presently our Library does not shelf that particular tile. I've already checked the card catalogue. I have studied the issues from both sides of the aisle. (Including Noam Chomsky, Edward Said, Jimmy Carter.) I tried to make that clear,that I previously was a anti-zionist. I stomached Carter's title and I'm not chomping at the bit for more right now... nor am I going to let you get away with your post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning.
I have also been that part of the world- not to ride on a tour bus, but to see things as they are on the ground (also to get some musical instruction- I love arab classical music:dharbukah and ney-my favorite). Meaning I stayed a spell, and I didn't shelter myself.
I think and reason with my brain and mind...THEN I speak with my mouth...Only on occasion, and in private do I whistle via my...fundament.
Good day sir.
Happy New year Y'all
looks like the lord would have picked a nicer "promised land" for the "chosen ones'
The good Lord made the Jews wander around for 40 yrs to find a tiny piece (and I mean tiny) area to finally settle them where there is no oil or natural resources other than Dead Sea mud.
So sad that there is so much trouble being whipped up to a piece of real estate that comprises 1/10 of 1% of the M.E.
Ixor, I have one word for you "MYTHOLOGY"
I like to refer to it as a fairy tale, actually. It amounts to the same thing.
stspecialk
Again, as usual you have one word, on bite. So in that vein, I have three words for you:
"I'm not impressed"
ps. Slinger,
I'm embarassed. I'm blushing...and probably not why you think.
I think "I'm not impressed" and it's not why YOU think.
lol! stop it! you are cracking me up! !lolrof!
I find you quite entertaining, as well.
The blind allegiance of the US towards Israel is starting to falter. The Israeli's can no longer hide their crimes against humanity by claiming that they are protecting themselves. All one has to do is watch how they continue to build in disputed territories and escalate the hate by killing Palestinians with excessive force. The US needs to cut aid and weapons to Israel, and the ICC needs to continue it's investigation of human right crimes in Gaza and the West Bank..
Hear, hear!!!!!
Ixor, 1 to 50, that should tell you something about the American peoples' towards Israel.
Don't forget that GOD chose the Israeli's to rule over the earth, and do what they wish to the animals and other humans that are here to serve them. We know this because some old Jews wrote it down 2,500 years ago and it has been the Jewish mantra ever since. Kind of like the book of Mormon that Mr. Smith dreamed up so he could convince a few gullible women to practice polygamy. I can't buy that crap and I can't understand our being willing to commit lives and treasure to support it.
Our support for the thieving terrorists in Israel will be the downfall of this nation. We need to stop providing for the Israeli cradle to grave welfare state while our own people are losing their homes, insurance, etc.
I say let Iran have nuclear weapons. In such a small piece of geography no nation would risk a nuclear war that would be certain to destroy the entire area, a la Pakistan and India. Perhaps then the Israeli's will sit down and resolve their issues with their neighbors in an honest fashion.
No that is not what the bible teaches.
The Jews believe that all the righteous of ALL the nations have an EQUAL place in the world to come. Christian, Muslim, Zoroastrian, Eskimo, you name it etc.
It is the Quran that encourages the goal of world domination.
There is no shortage of photos featuring Islamists parading with signs to that effect.
All of my millitary friends have nothing but the hightest praise and respect for the Israelis (in fact began I hearing it at a time when I was not particularly fond of Israel) -including one that served on the Liberty.
Perhaps you should e-mail your colleagues in the Millitary with your bizarro-world views about Iran and nukes...
the US needs to cut the money off on Israel
Yep that's right mike That way we could give more to Obama's terrorist friend you know those poor Muslims
I have no hard feelings for Israel having visited there several times...wonderful people. Now...the Israeli government are big boys so let them make their own foreign policy decisions...if they want to build in East Jerusalem ...please let them. But, the US does not have to pay for it. Pull out every penny of the billions of dollars in aid we provide Israel each year...period. This is just business decision...just like the announcement of this Israeli building expansion...on the eve of an attempted terrorist attack on the US. How selfish...doesnt the Israeli government understand, their plan to continue to expand in East Jerusalaem will have no impact on their national security but will only increase the likelihood of further attacks on the US...because of our support of their country. Again...no hard feelings but we have to start doing what's right for the American people.
We should put a stop to sending our military advisers to assist the PA and Billions to Gaza until they become accountable.
When Jordan illegally annexed and occupied East Jerusalem they threw out ALL the Jews (that have lived there as a majority for over a thousand years) and destroyed some 40 Synagogues then denied Jewish access (to the west wall/Kotel until 1967.
The way to resist terrorist attacks in Jerusalem or the United States is not to appease them for starters
The islamists have made it abundantly clear we in the US and EU are next on their list after they destroy Israel.
If you believe the Israelis are big boys and should make their own policy decisions- In this case I think you meant to type "domestic", why be abliged to tell anyone what they should or should not do?
Lets be truthful Ixor....you can't compare the foreign aid given to Israel to that sent to the Palestinian territory...114 billion dollars (4 billion a year) all together, including military weapons/nuclear technology was given free to Israel. Palestians receive about 250 million a year...none of it in military aid. BTW...the US provides the Palestinians aid only because if we dont extremist regimes will. On the other hand, there is no long line of supporters waiting to provide free money to Israel if the US welfare to them stops...their allie list is pretty short.
Ok...stop all foreign aid to Israel and the Palestinian Territories and lets see who flinches first.
And why all the religious retoric. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of the soldiers in the Israeli military are non religious Jews. Which begs the question, why are there not any religious Hasidic Jews in the Israeli military...in fact...why is there not one single religious Hasidic Jew in the US military? There are over 200, 000 Hasidic Jews in America…and we have representation from every major religious denomination in the world…but no Hasidic Jew. US soldiers die for the defense of Israel, in fact…our support for Israel has led to terrorist attacks against our country including the events of 9/11..yet not a single religious Hasidic Jew will serve in the US military…I just find this interesting.
Wow: ignorance supreme: There are records from over 3000 years proving Israel bought the land where Jerusalem exist, God gave the land to Israel, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob and not the God of Abraham and Ismael the works of the flesh by the way, and Israel won the land back by WAR and as I see it and know by history, go right ahead and try to destroy Israel and GOD most of you deny Will show you who owns the land. Bless Israel and be blessed and curse Israel and you will be cursed. It really doesn't matter what you think, it is what History has shown us...so I say, build Israel, build: let the losers continue to lose.
WTF...you are kidding...right
Who are we to tell anyone how to run their country. If we would have kept our nose out of Israel's business there would not be any problem between them and Palestine They would have wiped that trash off the face of the earth. And now we should stand back and let them take care of Iran. They are big boys and girls and they have been fighting for thousands of years and we should stay out of it
If I were a betting person, I'd bet Israel would not use nuclear arms except as a last resort to national survival. But Palestine would use them the minute they had them. And so would Iran.
jews don't want peace they want land !!! what else is new !!!
Iran is correct - Israel must be destroyed