Um, no. What this woman does on her own time is her own business. Her employer and/or insurance agent has no business digging for personal information about her online. Also, who the hell does this agent think he is to claim that she is "no longer depressed"? Is he a doctor? If not, he has no place making such a determination.

Work depresses me.

Dear Andrea M,

The person in question is probably depressed now, if she is truly depressed, her appeal will rectify things. You have to admit the pictures are damning under the circumstances. It is! the business of the insurance company or government agency to investigate, if she is not depressed, it is FRAUD. Many a workman compensation case has been busted under similar circumstances, someone playing 18 holes with the "famous debilitating back injury". This fraud cost you, me, and everyone, just because you can get away with it, it's not right.

If you really feel strongly about her being wronged, you can always send her a donation and condolence's on her Facebook Wall.

What this woman does on her own time is her own business.

By virtue of the fact she's getting paid, that makes it "not" her time. It is a hard call though as to how one does recuperate from depression without trying not to BE depressed. What the company should have done is grant everyone x days of leave time, for whatever reason, instead of requiring it be justified by illness, and then simply have no illness provision, or at least not one for "mood". I think the life lesson here is that if you're going to exploit some benefit, don't be photographed doing otherwise. On some level I don't see this as any different than a physically disabled person drawing disability payments and being photo'd doing yard work. Review it, decide if it has merit, and move on.

P.S.

I'm retired now, and have been a few time around the block, to say. Facebook is great, but too many people use it "with keyboard fingers motion, with the brain disengaged". My advise is don't put anything on Facebook, that you wouldn't want, your mother, husband, boy friend (or girlfriend), police (local, state, for Federal), ATF, DEA, FBI, NSA, NCIS, Interpol, and GOD. For what ever is scrolled from keyboard or attached, once you hit ENTER, it is Public Domain History and it is FOREVER!

This reminds me of KGB snooping. OK, an insurance agent has some important duties outlined in his/her job description. Looking in the www for foul play of clients is not new. Law enforcement and even social security agencies would do this as well. Why bother? Well, only a neurologist ( psychiatrist or other professional) is able to determine whether or not a depression is over. This agent discovered something and wants to get a year end's bonus - his/her motivation.

No one with (maniac) depression under medication is confined to his/her home or sleeps the whole night or day. Seasonal aspects (long darkness in fall and winter) contribute to the illness. Was the agent present when signs of depression (re-)occurred? I am looking forward to hearing the court's decision in favor of that woman.

One has to wonder how she ever got hired in the first place. Not to disagree with her argument that the doctor told her to try to have some fun. But.... what the heck is she doing posting this on the internet for the world to see. She apparently succeeded in having a good time. But, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that receiving benefits for depression means not flaunting "the end" of your depression or your non-depressed lifestyle. Kind of like someone on disability for a bad back being photo'd lifting refridgerators or someone with off work for bad knees running a marathon. If you do it, keep out of the public eye. Duhhhhh......

The people who have ranted here about "government healthcare" are totally on the wrong track. The article states: "...,when a Manulife insurance agent discovered pictures of Blanchard having a good time, the payments dried up."

Please note that "Manulife" is a PRIVATE insurance company in Canada. The full original name of the company is The Manufacturers Life Insurance Company. So Ms. Blanchard was NOT collecting any sort of government benefits. The benefits she was receiving were care of a private insurer.

Any other points those posters made, may or may not be valid. Public healthcare systems may or may not be a good thing. However, taking the situation described in the article as an argument against public healthcare is definitely not valid.

Thanks for the info, Jherek. Too many people see the headlines and don't read the full story.

Saying that, though, it's hard for me to believe that someone can take long term sick leave due to clinical depression. I'm surprised that insurance companies would allow this as an excuse to stop working.

Heck, I was depressed for 2 years when I couldn't get a job! Now that I have one, my depression is gone!

I just wanted to clarify...I didn't mean to say that clinical depression is not a real issue, so if I offended anyone, it was not my intention.

I don't know why they just didn't send her to the doctor to check her out and verify that she was still depressed. If so, then they shouldn't have cut her off. If not, then make her pay restitution. She certainly shouldn't have posted those pictures on Facebook. There are too many things said and done on Facebook, Twitter, etc., that too many people can see.

Social Security classifies 'depression' as a disability. The Social Security Administration will pay monthly benefits for anyone who is certified to be medically unable to work because of depression. On top of that, Medicare will pay for the treatment of a person who is judged to be disabled under the guidelines. Private insurance companies don't follow these same rules. They can provide coverage and terminate it at their discretion. (Here in the U.S.) That's one reason to have investigators in the field to verify that the claim is valid.

The article stated this is a CANADIAN IN CANADA. Do you people read or just like to complain? This has nothing to do with our government or our president. It does not affect our benefits unless you have insurance with Manulife Insurance from Canada. Please.... quit being ignorant on here. Read and THINK before you post. Maybe their laws of government are different.

Maybe, she was trying to "cheer up" at some of her activities.

Although, I would not want my taxes to subsidize that type of frivolity.

rodger-1311418

Take a good look people, this is GOVERNMENT healthcare at its best!

#1 What kind of stupid policy gives benefits other than meds for depression? The kind of benefits where you dont have to work?

#2 Dont you know youre not supposed to have a good time when you are out!

"Take a good look people, this is GOVERNMENT healthcare at its best!" What are you talking about??? Have you read the article?

This case is about IBM, a private company whose employee benefits are covered by Manulife, a private insurance company. Your comments are either deliberately misleading or you are commenting without reading the subject of this seed.

I think that her private insurer, without any written advice from her physician that even remotely suggests the activities she engaged in were suitable ways to "lift" her depression, she has no claim to benefits, and the insurer was well within its rights to "cut her off," so to speak. I'm not saying she's not depressed, and I'm not saying the insurance company knows better, but c'mon--an expensive gym membership? Sure. Justified. Exercise releases endorphins, which lift mood. But, if this is all she was doing to "help her depression," well, her activities are at best, suspect.

Oh, and next time, don't post pictures of such things on Facebook, lady.

Although it is long term, depression isnt a 24/7 gig. There are highs and lows. The fact is, she certainly wont improve if she is shuttered in, to remain glum and moody. The best therapy in the world is to get out occasionally. As my ex-wife would say when I got the flu, "go outside, get some air, and blow the stink off ya". I fear by threatening her financially, they have set her treatment back. The Canadian govt needs to get a grip, and give back those benefits NOW!!!

Andrea M, when you post statements and photos online for the world to see you are giving up your privacy and opening the door for things like this.

Her company didn't have to dig...she put it out there for them.

She scammed the system and now she'll pay.

Um, NO!

I don’t understand depression any more than the next guy, but it is a legitimate illness with serious work inhibiting problems. Because it is something hormonal or chemical in nature and not something you can x-ray or operate on, doesn’t make it any less real.

There is a medical concept of ‘deconditioning’… i.e., a condition getting worse by not doing things. If Ms. Blanchard were to stay home and do nothing, particularly being in fear of overzealous case managers, her condition would worsen. Even the insurance company’s own physicians/psychologists could not deny this, if they did they would be countering well established medical knowledge. On the other hand, she could easily counter that if she DID stay home and do nothing she would be violating the clauses she most likely has in her plan that she should be doing a) what her doctor orders, and b) that she do whatever necessary to improve her condition.

I don’t know about Canadian case law, but US case law is clear that one does not need be in a vegetative state in a dark room in order to be unable to fill the requirements of full-time employment. Any decent attorney should have this overturned on appeal without difficulty.

this one made the made mistake of being an idiot. she had to go put herself out there for eveyone to see. she screwed herself.just because you have face book or twitter, it doesn't mean you have too tell everybody every crap you take.

there's still room for a word called privacy. but i guess now with facebook twitter and all the other idiotic technology that word no longer exists. guess what people your loss.

this one made the made mistake of being an idiot. she had to go put herself out there for eveyone to see

If you're on Facebook you can only see people's photos if you're friends with them, you can't see them just by looking at the person's page alone, especially if the page is "private." Facebook is not the same as Myspace.

Also, it is encouraged that people who suffer from depression try to "have fun," medication doesn't work alone. Do some research before you start judging this woman.

I agree Auteur, depression is a real condition. Depression takes away everything from a person, sometimes even the will to live. It makes a person sad, lonely, exhausted, forgetful and confused. It can make you physically ill and takes away any initiative a person might have. So, please don't judge this woman, who was celebrating her own birthday. Even people with broken necks or cancer celebrate their birthdays! Rather we should be judging the health insurance company for making recommendations on things they know nothing about!

Good, she got what was coming to her.

Actuallu Adrea M,

Where I work we even hire private investigators to look into disability fraud. We all pay premiums for this coverage either through an employer or taxes. Disability fraud costs us billions. Here are 2 recent examples I have personaly been involved with as a manager.

Case one: Employee is on disabilty for a bad back, we paid him almost $50,000 in benifits so he could rest and get well. Our private investigator found him single handedly building a block wall in his back yard.

Case two: Employee is on disability being paid his salary. Walks with a cane and can hardly make it to his disability hearings. He has applied for full disability retirement.

Our investigator video taped him playing basketball with his buddies. Doing jump shots, tisting turning and a real mean game.

So don't feel sorry for these cheaters. It hurts the people who really need help.

Manulife is a private insurer; however, Canadian law is extremely liberal/employee friendly with respect to the definition of "disability" and how long workers can go out on disability benefits. It may not be a publicly funded plan, but it IS a publicly mandated benefit...

You mean Canadians get depressed? If I had to endure freezing my ass off 6 months of the year and had only one national sport to watch, I think a va-j-j in/on my face on a regular basis would help if I was depressed, or certainly as well as any antidepressant could. And it would make it even better if the tab was being picked up by the insurance company!

This is one of the reasons that healthcare costs are going through the roof. I was treated for clinical depression after losing my son to an extended illness (leukemia) and still managed to work. I don't recall my doctor saying that I should stay home, take a trip to Cabo and check out the Hooters girls to pep me up.

not exactly the brightest bulb in the box...some really good posts here...especially the advice on internet security:)

So why was 1.1 collapsed? I don't agree with the comment, but everybody flagged it for being either inflammatory or "of no value"? Nothing was inflammatory and it was an opinion relating to the story. So the people here on this thread just collapse any comment they don't agree with? Nice.

Sad all over this is not the reason healthcare cost are going up let's blame everything on why healthcare is going up. Number one your health care is going up because the technology is going up faster then anything else let's talk about the 1/4 million dollar head frame to do Neuro cases, and the million dollar microscope or more common the $10,000 dollar bovie that sits in each operating room times that by each operating room a hospital has or better yet the $1,5000 per box of vascular suture (24 packs per box) . The monthly fee to stock just suture for let's say for kidney transplant $40,000 a month and most hospitals don't charge patients for suture. the more changes and advances are expensive, I won't even get into the cost of replacement parts like light bulbs for some of the equipment, and the cost of surgical instruments. If you could see how much is spent you would faint. And the prices I rattled off are more then 5 years ago, so it's probably higher.

Before you go on about what is driving up the cost of health care get the facts. How do I know the prices? Because I've work in a operating room and have ordered equipment and supplies.

Not sure about the depression/disability issue. That's for the insurance company and this woman to resolve.

Sure about not posting things like this on Facebook. Do people not understand that pictures, comments, etc., are out there forever and ever and ever?

K7 you are right about the costs- awhile back- the frame for neuro has gone down significantly. But that isn't what makes the costs go up anyway- its simply that too many people do not take care of themselves, and even in the 90s it was true that there were enough healthy people in the system to balance- now no way- the insurance products are a rip off- I am a well paid doc but I am single and healthy- there is no catastrophic policy for me, and there is nothing I want in policies I don't consider a total rip off.

what goes around comes around.

Yes, this woman is a fraud indeed.

Dwater Comment collapsed by the community

Um Yes...and this is exactly what America is going to look like when all the lazy self-serving, entitled ass holes get their Socialist System under Obama.

The USA already is like this: a predatory nightmare for patients! This is a quagmuire of a situation. First off, if you're filing for gov't benfits or the like then be aware of the society you live in. Simply seeing a woman on vacation or at a strip bar isn't grounds enough to confirm she's not depressed. I'm not supportig her behavior, but the insurance adjuster isn't a psychologist and doesn't have the authority to diagnose her.

What happened to this woman isn't uncommon in the US either. Whether she is "working" the system or not should not be the decision of an insurance employee. This kind of predatory insurance behaviour or doing anything possible to kick people off their entitled benefits should be illegal. It might be the insurance company's job to investigate, but it should've been forwarded to a licensed doctor to determine if her complaints were faked and her doctor would also have to sign off on it. In this case is certainly looks like she should at least be working part-time to receive the benefits since she's not home-ridden.

In the US insurance company's hire contractor to stalk people filing claims. Obviously it has paid off for the company in the past, so the practice continues. But there's no oversight of their predatory behavior and should they catch someone filing for orthopedic disability in order to challenge the case just because the patient walked across the street, or was carrying a bag of groceries home then that's just illegal behavior and the company should be taken to court for cirminal behavior if they can't prove the person isn't disabled. Should the patient be participating in a marathon then yes pin that patient's a55 to the wall and hold them accoutable, but in most cases of orthopidic issues the disability is real and the entitled patient is screwed and the disability turns into social security because the person really can't work.

So is it worth it for insurance companies to pursue these actions? If there's oversight in our gov't then the insurance company would think twice before rushing to judgements.

This is complete bull@!$%#. I suffer from Major Depression and BiPolar Disorder. So the insurance company can tell me that because of my diagnosis that I have to be in a continual 24/7365 cathartic stupor and can NEVER show any evidence of happiness or enjoyment ?? That's completely asinine . Depressed people are NOT depressed 24/7 and in fact can go through "remissions" or "episodes" where they show no sign of depression at all. That doesn't mean that they are still not depressed. Most depression is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain or traumatic life experiences or both. THese things just don't "disappear" because someone went on vacation or enjoyed themselves at a birthday party.

Depression entails far more than just emotions. It disturbs a person's entire perception of life and reality and their ability to function, reason, cope, comprehend, process information and so much more.

Insurance companies know this.... they're just hoping no one else does because this is a great excuse for them to screw people over.

Doc, I don't know where you practice but the prices of medical equipment is not coming down. The last time I did a heart case ... yep I scrubbed in all specialties. I box of suture and other pricing has not come down. And doctors usually don't pay for Stereotactic head frames. People with certain diseases get sicker not because they don't take care of themselves- that was thought by doctors that for example kidney transplants a certain population were following doctors orders to a T but they did not do as well as their counter points of a different race. In Ortho, Open Heart and other specialties the price of equipment has not come down. Medical technology moves forward it's not like buying a used car from a lot. As a matter of fact hospital are having problems with equipment being stolen and believe it or not being sold on Ebay lol. I will not give a name but one of the hospitals found some of their equipment listed for sale. There is a black market for medical equipment. Omg there's a Stereotactic system on ebay for $15,000 LOL

Karl

You want someone to Read, our educational system no longer requires the ability to read, for graduation. Government and Main stream Media want to tell what to believe.

As a side note, knew a lady once that had been receiving $3000.00 s month for three years, for a disability of stress and depression. Went to a Dr. once a month and got signed off, good for another month. She was a Psyco, but a very smart one.

The fact is whether it's a private company paying out disability benefits or social security paying benefits out, to many people who are for one- truly in need, two have doctor's statements saying a person has an illness that disables them and three, these same people have payed into the insurance company and or social security system so that the funds would be there if they were needed. One or even a couple of pictures showing someone out does not prove anything at all. I think most people will agree that it's true there are many who get benefits that they shouldn't be getting because they don't have anything wrong and often the people who get away with this claim depression. Just the same Depression is an illness and it can be disabling. Also there are several types of depression. Some kinds a person experiences severe highs and lows, or the degree of depression fluctuates. The truth is the companies will jump on any excuse not to pay. That's partly because of the economy. I don't know if the person who was found on Facebook is depressed severely or not but since I don't know her I'd give her thebenefit of the doubt. I myself have been out of work for almost 3 years. 4 of the doctors I've seen say I am disabled. I have Fibromyaliga which is impossible to prove, arthritis, degeneration in my neck and spine, and some depression. My depression alone is not to the degree of disabling me but it doesn't make things easier compared with the rest. I also have a sleep disorder. I have days that aren't to bad but they are not good either and I have really bad days where I can't get out of bed. For me there is no way of knowing what any day will bring. My pain management doctor who see's me once a month stated recently that I could probrably work if I did sedentary work for 12 hours a week spread out over 4 days. That means I could work 3 hours a day 4 days a week. He went onto say that most likely I would miss 5 or 6 days at least a month because of the frequence of times that I can't get out of bed. Who would hire someone to work so few hours knowing that they wouldn't be able to count on them to be there all the time they were scheduled and that most likely out of the 16 days a month I'd be scheduled to work I would most likely miss 6 of the days by having to call out. Personally I don't believe I could do that much. Add to this that I take 300 mg of Morphine a day along with two other pain medications. One a muscle relaxer and the other an anti-inflammatory drug. I also use a Tens unit and meditation to fight the pain. I had private insurance for two years. They sent someone to my home to evaluate me when I first applied and I was approved. At the end of the second year they sent me for a funtional capacity test. I couldn't do most of what they had me do but I tried to do it all. They ended up having me lift a milk crate that a weight in it up and put it on a shelf over my head. Not only did I drop it but I pulled a muscle and was in more severe pain for the next four months. The functional capacity test determined my results were inconsistent and they said the doctor who administered it reported that I told him sometimes I think maybe I could work part time. I didn't say that. He asked if I thought I'd ever be able to work again and I said I didn't know but I hoped so. The doctor said in the report he felt I could work part time doing light duty up to 20 hours a week if I had hourly breaks and was able to frequently change my position. So the bottom line of that was I was in worse shape after the test then before and my benefits were taken. I also applied for social security disability and was denied 3 times. The third time was a hearing before a judge. They had an occupational therapist there to give her opinon on my capability to work after hearing the results. The judge asked her based on only a few things said if there were any jobs I could do. The girl named 3 that she said a person in the situation the judge stated could do but that the person would need hourly breaks and probrably be undependable. The judge then asked her based on all of the testimony she had heard from, me and my lawyer and the doctors statements if there was a job she could reccomend and the girl said no that under the circumstances I couldn't do it. The judge took almost 6 months to get around to my third denial. I could have had another appeal but my lawyer advised against it saying unless there was a change in my condition, especially in the degree of my depression that I would be turned down again. He stated the functional capacity test was what hurt my chances. My lawyer seriously hinted around that I should exagerate my depression because then I'd most likely be approved. I'm not a liar so I didn't appeal. I know to many stories of people who should be getting social security disability who are not. Several in much worse shape then me. I met a man who fell off a 6 story building and he broke his back in several places and had to have 7 operations and is expecting to have more surgery. He's in awul shape but like me was denied over and over again for disability. My opinion is these companies should pay attention to the words of the doctors who have actually seen and treated a patient and they don't. They give your file with all your doctors notes to doctors who work for them. I don't care how much they read your medical file and see your test results, this should not be allowed. How can they truly judge someone they have never spoken with or examined. We need a new system and new rules. By the way my picture is on Facebook too. I'm standing outside of a restraunt with two other people who I had just had dinner with. I look perfectly fine in the photo. Happy and Healthy. Happy because it was one of rare times I spent out with friends and healthy because you can't see Fibromyalgia and you can't see the damage in my joints. I was in a great deal of pain that day but decied to have a rare occaision of being happy with my friends despite the pain. Most of the time I only leave house once or twice a month for doctor's appointments. On special occaisions like Christmas and Thanksgiving I'll go to my mother's house or my inlaws to spend the holiday time with them. If I'm lucky it's a good day for me but more often I have to cut those visits short to come home and lie down. Anyway I know no one really wants to know all this about me but I'm just trying to say the system sucks and a picture doesn't prove anything. The decision maker's need to spend more time talking with the doctors that actually treat a patient and less time on Facebook. JMO

k7- they are coming down unfortunately there are new things coming out and they always want the latest thing

mY DEAR I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE AT. I HAVE BEEN OUT OF WORK FOR 3 YEARS with exactly what you describe..have been denied twice now and am waiting to go to court. i know someone that was on unemployment,never looked for a job for 2 years,then decided she was depressed,went to psychrist and fed him a line(she told me she was going to do this) Bingo got on disability first try. I am in constant pain,i refuse to take narcotics,or admit to depression(try to make the best of it). I will probably be denied again,since you cannot see my pain.could I work? probably 1 day a week,but I would"nt know what day unti I woke up.Is there no one out there to help us?

Well, yes and no....

If the patient displays symptoms of depression alone, she could be recovered as evidenced in her photo-op. But, if she is bipolar, then she might have oscillated from a depressed, into a manic state. In manic episodes, bi-polars have lost entire fortunes on short-lived good-times binges.

And yes, the employer and/or insurance is within legal bounds (in most States) to observe the employee for violation. But please, be 100% fair. Your mother, I'm certain, has taught you to "believe only half of what you see, and none of what you hear." Right?

Her lawyer should be telling her the next step is to get back to work. I've suffered with clinical depression and found the right medications to help me function, enabling me to get and keep a decent full time job. Work is good for the soul. If this woman has been so depressed that she can't function for an entire year, one would have to ask what on earth her doctors are doing for her.

carrie you cant work but you can sure get them drugs huh and go out and eat and all. if i have to support disability, i expect you to be homebound or severely mentally retarded, period. i hurt everyday and alot of working people are depressed. you have simply got away with stealing my money. hope you enjoy it. i cant afford to eat out. the woman in the article should go to jail for fraud.

So Micheal we can assume you have slavemaster mentality, right? She should be homebound, or severely mentally retarded?

Being homebound is the worst thing for depressed people because it only makes the depression worse. Getting out and doing something enjoyable is absolutely a part of the treatment for depression, and think about a couple other things.

It was her birthday .. how do you know this party wasnt planned, and paid for by some friends? Maybe they had good intentions, thinking it would be good for her to get out and let loose a little.

How do you know she even actually enjoyed herself while she was there?

I know for a fact that in depression, people can be in places with a smile plastered on their face, behaving as if they are enjoying themselves, for the sake of others there with them.

Fact is that no one knows enough about this woman to be judging her like this.

If you dont understand depression, then think before you charge and hang someone for what? Going on out their birthday? Rediculous..

Depression is not home arrest.. and it is really lame, and closed minded for anyone to think someone that is depressed and on disability, should be homebound. Thats a real good recipe for disaster.

From the article:

she said her lawyer is exploring what the next step should be

Hmmmm, look for work maybe and get out of the funk? Nah that would be the sensible thing to do.

Workman's comp is probably the number one program that gets frauded. I worked in a grocery store deli for a few years while I was in college. A lady fell in the deli cooler and injured her knee. Six weeks later, she was still on workman's comp, however, she came into the store, limping on the opposite leg and it was caught on the store's security cameras.

The store was a union run store so she had some legal representation when they finally fired her....3 months later, and she still collected the workman's comp benefits.

I am disabled with severe low back problems and Fibromyalgia. I am not DEAD! Just because I have chronic pain doesn't mean that I have to have the pain at home, does it? It's been helpful to occasionally go visit a friend for a couple of days (a different four walls!) as that keeps the depression at bay.

I am as unreliable as the others that have posted with Fibro and chronic pain. I can't predict which days are going to be good ones. I still will go on vacation with my sister. Sometimes that means being in bed for two days in Hawaii, or taking cabs where I used to be able to walk. Believe me, most of us put unreasonable pressure on ourselves to try to do the basics like getting dressed, showering, making meals, etc. It takes me 4-7 times longer to accomplish things then it did before I got sick. I wouldn't hire me!

Michael, I'm sorry that you hurt everyday. The "martyr" role won't last long as pain just wears you out physically and mentally. I hope you take better care of yourself because you're shortening your lifespan by "toughing out" pain.

I think I'll post a picture on FB of my morning face on one of the many BAD days. (Tiki head) My friends understand how much it takes to prepare for and recover from a trip to the Dr, or out to dinner. These are invisible disabilities and it's not up to us to judge people. Insurance companies and Social Security require lots of documentation to support these claims. Even though I'm considered permanently disabled, I still am reviewed at least once a year.

If you're not a doctor, and you think you have the right to rescind a benefit that was granted due to a doctors diagnosis, then you should be dragged about the streets by a horse dragged carriage and dismembered on the rack.

I think she should have gone with a diagnosis of long term stupidity instead.....

More proof how dangerous these social networking sites can be.

Thanks Tyler-Newsvine. Restoring post 1.1 while deleting 1.2, 1.3 answers my question in 1.32

People should be flagging inflammatory/No Value comments, not just comments they don't agree with.

Seriously, I agree with Danp... work depresses the hell out of me, does that mean I can get paid and not go? ... cause that would really cheer me up... which would then get my insurance to cancel the payments... which would depress me again. It's the circle of life! (also, another Lion King movie would probably cheer me up, which would in turn screw my medical benefits of being paid not to work because my work sucks).

she looks like a depressive type in the picture, trying to overcome the illness..please Canada, if that is the Law of the Land, don't trash her when she is trying to overcome the illness..offer her psychiatric options for Pete's sake..we do more for our terrorists in Guantanamo, than we care for own..

Our investigator video taped him playing basketball with his buddies. Doing jump shots, tisting turning and a real mean game.

And his disability was...

No your wrong, often a Doctor or a Shrinks who generally are worthless and quacks, recommend a change of scenery and a change in your lifestyle as a normal course of treatment and for a person to be suffering depression, smiling and having a good time once in awhile is not an indication of a cure...

I worked in a County Psych Ward for over two years and a lot of these poor people were severely depressed and to see them laugh at something on TV or a family visit, was music to my ears...Though their biggest joy was seeing the Shrinks or catching the Shrinks screwing up, for they knew the Shrinks were scammers and doing absolutely nothing to help them with their illness and just collecting large amounts of money from the County.

And since when is the Insurance company even remotely qualified to make this decision, they are not.....Insurance companies cause more depression than they pay to have cured....

Just wait until Obama Care is here, you'll being seeing stories like this on a daily basis from the Obama goon squads who will be making your health decisions for you.....

often a Doctor or a Shrinks who generally are worthless and quacks, recommend a change of scenery and a change in your lifestyle as a normal course of treatment and for a person to be suffering depression, smiling and having a good time once in awhile is not an indication of a cure

Can you provide evidence to back that up?

I worked in a County Psych Ward for over two years and a lot of these poor people were severely depressed and to see them laugh at something on TV or a family visit, was music to my ears

Worked there but you obviously weren't a psychiatrist, doctor or psychologist.

Worked there but you obviously weren't a psychiatrist, doctor or psychologist

Since when do you have to be a psychiatrist, psychologist, or any kind of health care professional to enjoy seeing people laugh? Depressed or not.

Can you provide evidence to back that up?

You need evidence for something that obvious?

You need evidence for something that obvious?

Yeah because the majority of people here lack knowledge of depression and most likely they don't know any people who suffer from depression.

i refuse to take narcotics,or admit to depression(try to make the best of it)

Is there no one out there to help us?

Grammie, sounds like you've refused help. As a depression sufferer myself (lifetime chemical imbalance), if you don't do something about it no one else will. I certainly don't expect someone to pay me to not work just because I don't want to accept that I have an illness. When I was out of work after being laid off several years ago, the depression was worse. If you were a diabetic, would you refuse to accept it and not take insulin? No one can help you but you.

Auteur 1536

Yeah because the majority of people here lack knowledge of depression and most likely they don't know any people who suffer from depression

So you're saying that the best evidence is experience? I agree.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving Auteur. I'm afk until next week.

Um, no. What this woman does on her own time is her own business. Her employer and/or insurance agent has no business digging for personal information about her online.

Um, yes, Andrea. What you do in public, or do and make public, no longer falls under the heading of personal information.

In Massachusetts, the epicenter of all which is liberal and profligate with the public's money, there was a case last year where a fireman on permanent disability had his status challenged and revoked when he competed in a body-building contest and was one of the top finishers.

It was decided that if he was capable of working out in gym, he was capable of doing his job, which was not even the strenuous role of a front line fireman.

If this woman is capable of hanging out in bars and cavorting about in tropical locations, she's capable of doing a days work. She was trying to scam the system and she had either the gall or the stupidity to do it in public. To me this falls under the heading of ts kid.

What you do in public, or do and make public, no longer falls under the heading of personal information.

There's a difference between going public online and public offline. The internet isn't always connected to reality nor should it be connected with reality or mixed with reality.

People who also have depression, especially major depression, often have thoughts of suicide and that's one reason they're encouraged to be social. Being around friends takes their mind off the thoughts of suicide and death wishes.

Being around friends takes their mind off the thoughts of suicide and death wishes.

So very true Auteur. I couldn't agree more. But what does that have to do with going to work. I have friends at work that I enjoy seeing and talking to. Working can also take your mind of of those kind of thoughts. I have no problem with her partying and seeing friends on her days off. But a depressed person can still learn to take responsibility for their life.

People who are depressed can't concentrate, they also have trouble with their memory. That's another reason they take time off work. If you can't concentrate because of depression or you're having trouble remembering things, you can't do your work.

Can you prove that? Where is your documentation?

drbacon, just go read about the symptoms of depression. Why does he/she have to provide documentation on the symptoms of depression? lol .. this information is easily obtainable.

I am not saying that this chippendale woman has problems with concentration, and memory, because no one knows the severity of her depression, including you. As far as we know she could be suicidal. Facts are that we do not know so we have no business making judgements on her.

Facts are that we do not know so we have no business making judgements on her.

Exactly.

Melody: This should help.

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3291921412/m/7130001860001

He probably deserves his VA benefits. Have you earned any?

i agree. they deserve a hell of alot more than what they get!

Vets can receive VA benefits for disabilities that are not physical. VA disability benefits are different. And you do not know what type of meds he may be on for any mental issues.

It seems that the private insurance company in Canada was dealing with this case more like the cases where people say they have injured their backs and cannot work to collect money from car insurance or on the job injury claims. Plenty of people lie about those claims - not all - but I have known some.

If talking about VA, it's completely different. If he retired from the military and then gets (just throwing out a random number here) $500/mo in disability payments because the military caused him to lose 50% of his hearing or ruined his knees or whatever... he gets $500.00/mo taken out of his pension that he earned by being in the military for 20+ years. Therefore, he probably isn't really getting any EXTRA money because of his disability and he should be working full time. If they discontinued his disability payments, he just has that money put back into the retirement check he earned.

That's just a little tidbit that most non-military people don't seem to know about. It's a bunch of crap really.

and thanx to medicare part d now tricare doesn't pay for prescritpions if you have other benes!!

Don't get me started on Tricare. I can fill up 20 pages of newsvine comments complaining about them... But I digress :-)

don't we all- good luck with them!!

Under most circumstances, it is perfectly legal to work while taking Veterans disability benefits. One does not preclude the other. The V.A. will assist in finding work for a soldier's compromised work ability.

The VA system is a little different and this post expands on what Patriotic American said :)..I am even using his numbers.

Those disability ratings are based on service connected injuries. For example, a servicemember may have arthritis caused by a fall in the line of duty or even due to the hard concussion of hitting the waves with a boat during a rescue mission. If the member is retired for 20+ years of service, the money is taken out of the retirement and is paid back minus taxes. For example, I make roughly $1700/month in retirement pay. If I had a 40% disability rating, using PA's numbers, I would be entitled to $500/month. My retirement pay would be reduced that amount, down to $1200, but then I would have a second deposit for the $500 back, minus taxes. In total, that means I would only be getting about an extra $125/month as my tax bracket is roughly at 25%.

There is a new law in place that is going to eventually allow full concurrent receipt payment of both disability and retiremant, however, this is only for servicemembers whose disability is rated at 50% or higher.

Well if he is a Veteran I have no doubts he earned it the hard way in some way...Granted their are some scammers in the VA but for the most part the disability has to be documented and goes before a number of review boards and Doctors before it is approved....

I have a 50% loss in the hearing in my right ear (I call my offical and documented Husbands ear!) from Gun fire which the Military Doctors themselves discovered.

So because I get some free hearing Aides once in awhile and may have surgery in the future and the fact I work for living, are you telling me I did not earn the right to benefits.. The man she is trying to Rat on is actually working at the same time, what a hero.. Your average liberal would be sitting at home whining they aren't getting enough free money...

What a sick woemen, that or greedy herself and just jealous since if she works for government I already have picture of her in my mind...Another government drone and Union member....

va benefits are totally different, soldiers are entitled to work whilst claiming disability through the VA

Yes, the salient difference I draw between this veteran and the 29-year old, "depressed" woman in the article, is that he is working ...at a fulltime job. If the VA adjudges him as deserving of certain disability benefits, I going to withhold judgement until I know more of the facts.

I can't decide which is funnier, the people here who are somehow comparing this woman's stupidity to Socialized Medicine, or the people who think she was within her rights to gallivant around the world while on long term paid sick leave for depression!

What this reminds me of is the countless stories 60 Minutes used to do about people who where supposedly physically disabled and living off of Workman's Comp. or Social Security Disability, but were photographed skiing, or repairing automobiles. People like this woman and the many who file false disability claims, make it harder for those who live with debilitating depression or physical ailments, but must jump through several hoops before getting any financial assistance. This has nothing to do with Healthcare Reform, but everything to do with people who find themselves able to take advantage of a situation, and milk it for all it's worth!

I am glad IBM did it's due diligence and found out that this woman did not need the benefits someone in the US was probably being denied. Now, it would be nice if they could put some of the money they saved toward saving a few of the jobs IBM has happily shipped overseas, to other countries with Socialized Medicine, which lowers the amount of benefits the company must pay it's employees...but I guess that is just a pipe dream!

Damn, KrisT is right, you are one sick old lady. What else will you do for $500 bucks? Can I have your number?

Zanyzuzu, please tell me you were kidding...you definitely have my gag factor up;)

ted, well, in the upcoming movie Brad Pitt plays John Galt uncredited.

But that still doesn't really answer your question.

John Galt could be anyone.

spitting spreads TB

buche,
And spitting and cussing spreads the wealth in Phoenix.

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments, and at one time I worked three jobs to support myself and two children. BUT, don't be so conservative to think that depression should not ever be used for disability. The illness is so very much more than just being sad. I've never been on disability for major depression, but I can tell you that being depressed and suffering from depression are two entirely different situations. I would give it away in a heartbeat if I could. Unfortunately, it's an overused diagnosis.

Carol, are you implying that conservatives think that depression shouldn't count as a disability? If that's the case, you are very, very wrong.

Depression should not ever be used for disability. So you are sad. Join the club.

Being sad and being clinically depressed are two very, VERY different things. Everyone gets sad sometimes, but I doubt most people get depressed to the point where they are literally unable to function. So please don't compare apples and oranges - especially if you've never suffered from depression.

Proud, listening to you I know you have never been depressed, depression is very serious. And you don't have to have a life changing event to be depressed, working two jobs are 4 jobs have nothing to do with being depressed. Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain. I don't know of anyone with major depression that won't give anything not to feel that way. The true heroes are the people that have to wage a war against this illness. Against the side effects of medications, the feeling of helplessness and callous people that think depression is not a serious disease.

proud_conservative,

I can't imagine what you're so proud of. Certainly not your intelligence.

Depression is a serious debilitating ILLNESS and is not at all the same as occasionally feeling "sad". You only make yourself sound like a fool when you write such ignorant comments.

the only problem with illnesses like fibromyalgia, the aftermath of glandualar fever, depression and general back pain etc is that it is near impossible to prove or disprove which is why they are the most commonly used excuses for people who simply want to claim benefits, unfortunately this doesnt help the people who truly suffer from these conditions

i know one woman who can go to her doctor and cry and sob and tell him how depressed she is, how she cant cope, how she thinks about suicide and cant function, truth is she admits to her circle of friends thats its a lie and she does it to get out of work.

i was also friends with a guy who came down with glandular fever, he got his time off which was deserved but then he purposefully milked several months off work because he just kept telling his doctor he was lethargic and tired and couldnt do anything, truth was he was at clubs 3 nights a week dancing and drinking. people milk it and most doctors seem to just believe people and write them sick note after sick note, he only got caught out when the club he went to posted pictures of their foam party and there he was drunk on the dancefloor

the newspaper in england i used to read was frequently exposing people for benefit fraud, usually those claiming back pain, they caught one guy on permanent disability due to back pain working for cash at a moving place helping people move house lifting boxes and furntiture, and another guy who was disabled for back pain at the gym several hours a day and entering body building competitions.

Depression should not ever be used for disability.

I agreed with you up to the above comment. Depression can be a disability, a condition which totally or partially incapacitates a person. But this woman was just somebody who got "depressed" every morning at 6 am., when it was time to get up and get ready for work, and "recovered" every evening when the bars opened.

She deserved to get booted off disability.

Carol - what you say is true. I hope what you're feeling & going through improves with time. What these insurance investigators do is look for fraud - like the man who claimed his arms/shoulders/back was so damaged from an on the job injury he can no longer lift/carry or perform his normal duties..... only for the ins. investigator to find him hauling his new kayak from his truck to the ocean for a 3 hour exercise venture upon the sea. This woman's case is a catch 22 for sure... because she's encouraged to go out, uplift herself & her spirits... when she does so - she's called a fraud. Who knows, maybe she is. The insurance detectives should not stalk/photograph/entrap people with this problem. It only makes it worse. Furthermore, most people who suffer from this will almost always reply when asked they are, "Fine," even when they're not - nobody wants to hear anybody's sad story. These ins. detectives should back off these people.

I know from personal experience that these insurance companies will do anything to screw you out of your benefits. That includes lying and trying to set you up. There is no way to know from the information presented whether the woman is still depressed and if that depression is significant enough to preclude work. Only her doctor knows that. Yes, there are numerous scammers. They are the ones that screw the rest of us. This whole issue is much more complicated than most of you realize.

Pazalea, it's not stalking or entrapping when you put something out there for all the world to see. With more and more people watching what's flying around in cyberspace, the more important it is to be more careful about what you do or say while hiding behind the keyboard or cell phone. Unfortunately, all technology seems to have done for the masses is to dumb us down. If having a visual record of having fun was part of this person's treatment they should have handled it better...

good for you somebody that finally makes sense.God bless.

I agree with you 100% Carol. You are completely spot on!

I suffered from depression for decades but eventually cured myself applying the information from this book: "Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar and Survival" by T. S. Wiley and Bent Formby.

The cure is simple and natural and far, far easier than you ever dreamed possible. Best wishes and get well soon! :)

There is no way to know from the information presented whether the woman is still depressed and if that depression is significant enough to preclude work.

That's why it's stupid to stalk people by hacking their Facebook pages.

She may have depression, but it doesn't exempt an individual for being careful for what they say and do. There are plenty of individuals who are trying to defraud the insurance companies, because of that, it rests upon you the individual to make sure your actions don't possibility give the impression that you are in fact lying about your condition. Posting pictures on Facebook is definitely a not something you should do, because it can, and will bite you back in the future.

k200k, you make a great point, I know when I hurt leg at work. When I went in to physical therapy it was in the morning and I was stiff as heck. I walked in with a limp. After treatment my ankle was iced so I was able to walk out without a limp but I still was in a lot of pain. I had to have surgery on my leg ..... the insurance company said I was faking. 5 years later I still have a limp and my leg will never been the same but because of one time I wasn't limping they said I was faking. I told them if I'm faking you need to have me charged with insurance fraud, and go after the surgeon for an unnecessary surgery, they ended up settling the case. They should have been spying on me when my husband had to carry me up the steps because I couldn't walk up the steps to our apartment. It's bad when you really are hurt and they are lurking around the corner waiting for that one time you don't appear to be hurt. It's a shame you have to deal with being hurt and have to worry about who's watching you.

That's why it's stupid to stalk people by hacking their Facebook pages.

Hacked it? LOL They probably just put in a friend request & she granted it. 99.999% of the time that's the case.

Feeling better I suppose & prepared to return to work? Most Europeans take a paid month vacation. We Americans get 1 or 2 weeks, however most months have a 3 day holiday - providing workers with some relief.

Pasalea

Quite a high % of Americans, elect not to take any vacation; that is their choice. Several companies I have worked for required that you take your vacation. The main difference between Americans and Europeans, "Americans live to Work" and "Europeans work to Live", also Europeans live within their means. I lived in Spain for 3 years, now in South America, for inlaw health issues. I plan to return to Spain when possible. Oh yes!, I am a retired American.

TThe main difference between Americans and Europeans, "Americans live to Work" and "Europeans work to Live", also Europeans live within their means.

First Roger, know that I am not aiming this post at you directly, it just goes to make a point. I don't know about the "Europeans live within their means" part, as my guess is there are just as many Europeans who use credit to get by as there are Americans, but the first part of your statement is hilarious....

Read these boards, and most people seem to think that the majority of Americans are lazy, overweight people who don't work at all and want everything to be "an entitlement". That doesn't sound like "Americans live to work" to me...seems to me if the majority of Americans WERE lazy, overweight people, they'd be taking all the vacation they could.

Then, a comment back to the article...again, most posts here seem to be outraged that an insurance company would look into a persons "private time" in order to investigate a fraud. Seems to me that fraud would normally be found looking into that "private time". How many times have you heard of a person in the US collecting disability but then be found to be snow skiing or something???? No, truth is...if the insurance company knew about this and did nothing, everyone would be screaming about the amount of fraud these (again with this generality) "lazy, fat people" are are being perpetrated against the insurance companies (and you and I).

genafan201

Stats:

34% of American workers will not use all their (13 day average vacation days), on average they will give back 3 days or 23% of their vacation time.

24% of Spanish workers will not use all their (30 day average vacation days), on average they will give back 3 days, also, or 10% of their vacation time.

Reference: http://media.expedia.com/media/content/expus/graphics/promos/vacations/Expedia_International_Vacation_Deprivation_Survey_2009.pdf

Household debt as a percentage of disposable income

United States 135% (Tops was Denmark @ 260%)
Spain 107%

Reference http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/02/07/americans_arent_the_only_peopl/

Kinda off subject, but, we are more in debt in both cases.

genafan, good comment but I would suggest it's more an indoctrinated upbringing as well as uncooperative employers who fail to see the benefits that a well-rested employee who has spent 14 days sunning themselves on a beach somewhere will probably perform vastly better than an employee who has to battle to even take a day or two off every now and then.

Amen, Voter.

My last & current employers are small drug manufacturers. We get a certain amount of hours of time off for a certain amount of hours worked. Period. We get a 3 day weekend every other month, not every month. The time earned is for vacation, sick leave, or any other time off you need (1 day for jury duty & 2 for immediate family bereavement are separate). 2 weeks a year would be awesome, especially since my previous job 3 weeks a year was minimum, with at minimum another week of sick leave, 2 days for jury duty, and 4 days bereavement. Previous company was a large Swedish-owned company. Swedish HQ got off a month each summer.

American companies don't get it that time off makes for a healthier (mentally & physically) and happier employee. However, if you lose an account in America, you don't have to commit hari kari to save face as in some countries LOL.

I've had pretty severe depression at times - not enough to put me out of work, but I could easily see how it could have gotten to that point. I lost my lifelong best friend and her mother within a period of six months, and that pretty much dragged me down to the point that my other friends and my family were extremely concerned. Someone was always taking me out or trying to get me to have fun, and it really helped. It got me outside of my own head and interacting with the rest of the world. And the therapists I have seen over the years have always been very "pro-vacation." If the insurance company judged her to be depressed enough to pay for her to stay home from work, they can't use some facebook photos as proof of her being cured. That's ridiculous.

On the other side of the coin, I'm not going to be lowering the privacy settings on my own facebook account anytime soon. Keep your pages private, folks.

i'm depressed too because i can't afford to take a vacation to even post on facebook (unless i go to veranda beach.......)

What I just discovered on Facebook is that the automatic settings make most of your info. "friends only". However, pictures are marked "Everyone". I just changed mine. I don't want people I don't know looking at my pictures.

Excellent response, Goldie. I do take exception with one remark. Insurance companies DO NOT diagnose anything with photos. I know this because I AM one of those people. I have never done that in my 20 years of experience nor reviewed the work of any one else who has done this. Contrary to public opinion, we do NOT get paid to deny claims. I get paid to handle claims, period. I am not going to put my license and reputation on the line for the sake of some company's bottom line.

But don't think I am strictly taking the insurance company's side of this. I see this issue with compassion and skeptisism at the same time. Besides being a claim rep, I am also bipolar II.

I had cyclothemia which eventually spiralled into major depression. For a period of time I slept 23 hours a day. Not in a row. Sleep 8 hours, up for 20 minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat. Over a few weeks new drugs kicked in and returned to work half days and then back to full time. That was a decade ago. I have not had a major depression since then but I rapid cycle between mild depression and hypomania, sometimes hourly, when it is really bad. I credit the drugs, my shrink, my employer and myself for managing this very real disease and allowing me to succeed in my job and every day activities.

As for this woman, who knows? The insurance company sure isn't going to discuss anything publically. We are only getting one side of the story from the woman who had her benefits cut off.

My guess would be the photos (if there are such) and her medical records didn't jive. No one expects someone with major depression to be housebound their entire life but as a claim rep, I expect that person to be honest with their doctor and to have their activity documented in the records. If there is documentation that someone took a cruise and appears to be having a rip roaring good time but the dr's notes from the following Monday state that she hasn't left the house in six weeks, that's a problem.

Good days and bad days are what I expect to see in records for mental and physical conditions. The most suspect person is the one who never has a good day but continues doing the same meds, same therapy, same activities...or lack thereof. You know what they say about the definition of insanity. ;)

I'm just going to say that is not true. I'm not going to trot out my personal story for all to share, but I know different.

Belinda, I don't doubt honest disabled people get screwed by the system all the time, mostly due to the frauders of the system and then the greed of the businesses. I'm sorry you were cheated. I'm going thru my own battle and, yes, they are tough and wrong on so many levels, but not being completely honest will most likely come back to haunt one trying to make themselves sound worse then they are or not updating their files to their progress.

I know a few people who have been ripping off the system for years and it just makes me want to scream that people really needing the help get denied.

goldie - You are exactly right. It's tough. It seems the scammers know just what to do to game the system and it screws the rest of us. I was 100% honest and frankly that's what screwed me. They used things against me that had nothing to do with anything. It's a very long and hard story. In the end, they utterly humiliated me so I wouldn't come after them with a lawyer. Things in my life conspired also to prevent me from doing that. So in the end I got screwed. I still get Social Security Disability which I am so grateful for.

traben- i agree with you . good post.

agree, the investigators for all types of benefits need to be out there weeding out the scammers and the lazy, if you are truly disabled then i do have sympathy and have never begrudged benefits and welfare but for those who clearly are just working the system both people claiming they are disabled and those just claiming welfare for their 5 kids they need to just be cut off, either they get off their butts and work or 'try' or starve

You're right. I used to work as a disability claim rep too. All people on any sort of disability DO have to have regular doctor's reports submitted to the insurance company. Moreover, doctors and therapists DO tell patients to get out and do things, as it takes the focus of their own problems. For instance, a woman going to the hairdresser was seen as a sign that she was starting to get better--but not necessarily well enough to work yet. Do people really think depressed people should just lie in bed and cry all day? I do have to say this person showed an extreme lack of judgment, though.

NOTHING on the web is private! When are people going to learn? Whatever you post on the web is out of your control and will reside there indefinitely...

This woman has a really big problem because the proof is out there and she won't be able to control it by trying to have it removed or otherwise suppressed.