If Roeder's name was Mahammad, I'm sure they would be.

Agreed! This is a terrorist act against us all -- and it was in his church - unbelievable!

You slowly take a woman's right to her body then we might as well go back to the dark ages -- which was Hell on Earth!

I have always wondered why they call these people the Christian terrorist that they are.

Or worse. To quote hawkeye the guilty are in hell. The world has innocents as well as guilty folks. There are really bad situations involved with women who seek abortions.Those poor women do not deserve to be treated like this, and to live in fear like this. You don't know why she's there. Don't assume it's a bad reason. Chances are it's not.

It's legal in this country period. Killing over it does not help you. Abusing people does not help you. Showing your worst possible face does not help you. Sit down, join the conversation and stop acting like thugs.

I came to believe many years ago that the worst enemies of a free America are not foreign governments. The greatest threat to our freedom and, in many cases, our lives are the fascists on the extreme right. It is an unholy alliance between fundamentalist religious terrorists and politicians who use them. Tiller, like Rudolph, is a terrorist and should be tried as such. He should rightly be in Guantanamo. Then put to death. We cannot afford to keep these psychotics.

From Wiki:

According to a memo produced by the FBI's Terrorist Research and Analytical Center in 1994, domestic terrorism was defined as "the unlawful use of force or violence, committed by a group(s) of two or more individuals, against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."[2]

Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."[3]

Yep. Sounds like a terrorist act to me. No matter what one's personal opinion about abortion is, resorting to murder or other acts of violence to get their way on that issue regarding even SOCIAL ISSUES is terrorism according to the laws of the land.

But even if you don't agree it's terrorism, killing someone without for wrong doing without benefit of a trial by a jury of his/her peers is murder. I find it ironic this man wants his day in court, a trial by jury, something he was unwilling to give the man he killed.

Exaclty. It's domestic terrorism, pure and simple.

Wow HSB. That definition fits them perfectly *shudders*

And I can judge no man, lest I be judged

And then in the exact same post . . .

all you self righteous beaches who claim the right to eat your young if they interfere with your schedule of life events

and in another post . . .

So how is it a problem to kill Jews, but not to murder the unborn?? ...

Hypocrites

So not only do you quote the Bible about not passing judgment, but you turn around and do just that. But I guess you don't take the Bible seriously, seeing as how you also decided to skip the parts that say, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "love thy neighbor". So do you always treat the Bible like a Chinese take-out menu, and only pick the parts you like?

This isn't about me. I am not the one throwing certain scripture in the face of others, while ignoring the scripture that does not suit my purpose.

I find it ironic that you seem all too eager to pass judgement and cast the first stone, in the name of God. Even though this behavior goes against specific teachings in the Bible. But then again . . . Christians have done this same thing all throughout history, so maybe it is inevitable. Or maybe that is the exact reason for these teachings.

Although I respect your stance against the "murder of the unborn", that statement itself is flawed. Neither of us know exactly when I child can be considered a life. We can speculate, and look for answers within our religion and the Bible. But at the end of the day, it is all speculation. The phrase "breathed life into his lungs" can imply that life starts when a child breathes. Or the reference to "lifeblood" would make one think life starts when the fetus is infused with blood. And the church (also known as MAN, and thus flawed) has created their own definition. All within the same religion, and all contradictory.

In the end, only God truely knows when life starts . . . when he gives a child a soul, and this knowledge is beyond human capacity. To pretend to have the same knowledge as God is blasphemous at best.

But still we speculate, argue, pass judgement, cast stones, murder (if you are Roeder) and completely ignore the teachings of "love one another" in the Bible. How lost have we become? You even claim that your hate-filled remarks judgement can be twisted into some kind of perverted definition of love.

Hi wall.al37...I was under the understanding that throughout the Bible, there is constant reference of how God has no problem forgiving sins. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think there would be no time limit for Someone who is eternal. Not to mention, isn't there a verse in the Bible about how sin is sin in the eyes of God? And isn't there something about how the least of us here on earth shall be put ahead of the greatest of us?

Wally, the bible was written by man--not god.

It's a bunch of fairy tales written by people like you that want to tell other people how they should live life.

Go thump your bible in church where other weak minded people like you will listen

God did tell us when life begins

God did not tell men to do anything. God was created by sick old men who wanted to control people. People who believe God tells them to do stuff are either schizophrenic or just plain stupid and desparate.

Operation Rescue is a terrorist organization.

the subject of when something is considered to be alive is interesting, so i looked up my anatomy and physiology notes from this past semester (really hard class! especially since i want to be a history teacher and know nothing about science lol) and i came across science's definition of life.

before something will be considered living, other than plants in this case because we are talking about the anatomy of a human being, it will have the following characteristics:

Movement
Responsiveness/Irritability
Metabolism: Divided into two reactions, catabolic and anabolic.

Catabolic: Taking large molecules and breaking them down into small molecules, which could be considered building blocks. (Building blocks example: proteins, amino acids.) Taking something large and making it small comes along with energy release which is usually in the form of heat.
Anabolic: Taking small molecules and building them up into large molecules. Synthesis situation, and therefore you would have to add energy. Anabolic and catabolic create a coupled reaction, like a cycle.

Growth
Reproduction

a fetus can be aborted, legally if there are no complications or possibility to a womans health, within three months. at three months, a fetus will have (this information was taken from WebMD):

Fetal Development at 4 Weeks:

At this point of development the structures that eventually form the face and neck are becoming evident. The heart and blood vessels continue to develop. And the lungs, stomach, and liver start to develop. A home pregnancy test is now positive.

Fetal Development at 8 Weeks:

The baby is now about the size of a grape – almost an inch in size. Eyelids and ears are forming and even the tip of the nose is visible. The arms and legs are well formed. The fingers and toes grow longer and more distinct.

Fetal Development at 12 Weeks:

The fetus measures about two and a half inches and starts to make its own movements. You will start to see the top of the uterus above the pelvic bone. Your doctor may hear the baby's heartbeat with special instruments. The sex organs of the baby should start to become clear.

most women do not wait until three months to have an abortion, but some do and that is perfectly legal, so i included month number three in there too.

based on that information, movement, growth, and reproduction (in terms of sexual organs) are the signs of life that it shows. technically from a scientists perspective, it does not contain all criteria of life therefore it is not living.

i will not say if i am pro or against abortion, i am just giving the facts. of course there is the religious standpoint, so naturally we have to consider that viewpoint too.

other than that clear up, this man is insane! if people are protecting him because they believe abortion is murder, then all i have to say is two wrongs dont make a right!

Dangerous psychosis?

That or god...in the minds of some it is the same thing ...

Amen! Can I get a witness?!

lol

Intriguingly, his defense would rationalize the pre-emptive murder of whackjob religious zealots in order to protect the lives of doctors.

I like that!

Let me see if I have this right...it is ok to kill someone if that someone kills a human being provided that human being is outside of the womb...is that about the jist of it?

I do not wish for anyone to die, including the unborn child. I think this man did the wrong thing for a righteous cause, and only hurts the cause in the long run. They are nuts in any cause. Hitler was a great believer in abortions, wasn't he. I don't see the anti-life crowd putting him out there as one of their champions, as this man is no hero to me.

No Vern, your info is inaccurate. Hitler made abortions illegal in 1935 or 1937, I can't remember the exact year. Either way, abortions were legal in Germany prior to his rise to power.

From ask.com: When the Nazis came to power in 1933 one of the first acts Hitler did was to legalize abortion. By 1935 Germany with 65 million people was the place where over 500,000 abortions were being performed each year. Although Hitler and his government encourged Aryan women to produce a lot of children, he left the matter of abortion and all its facets in the hands of a decidely pro- abortion medical establishment. Even in the midst of Nazi propaganda aimed at increasing the Aryan population, scores of Aryan women still chose to abort their unborn children. The medical publication Deutsches Aerzleblatt reported the abortions in Germany each year reached a half-million.

Irregardless, my point is that people killing people (born or not) is just a senseless and wasteful tragedy.

Of the three amendments in 1935 of the 1933 "Law for the Prevention of Genetically Diseased offspring"..."Adolf Hitler personally decriminalized abortion in cases of fetuses having racial or hereditary defects for doctors, while the abortion of healthy 'pure' German, 'Aryan' unborn remained strictly forbidden"

Henry Friedlander, "The Origins of Nazi Genocide: From Euthanasia to the Final Solution".

BDVern1

1) Ir-regard-less means regardful.

2) Thank you for your insight. I am finally putting the pieces together. Hitler was also a vegetarian! I am disturbed by the slippery slope on which Americans emulate Nazis by embracing this fascist, racist dietary culture! The more Americans become Hitler-loving vegetarians, the sooner I see us annexing Canada, building concentration camps...

How does this differ from a fatwah?

They sound a lot like radical imams.

It doesn't. There's a reason the government is looking into the far right fringe. They brought this on themselves.

Terrorism plain and simple. But, because he is not muslim, it will not be treated as such.

They sound a lot like radical imams.

Radicals are radicals. Doesn't matter what race, religion, or political affiliation.

Ironically, his own mother should have had an abortion and use the "same force" to protect the life of the doctor.

Even more so, because the vast majority of late term abortions are performed when a woman's life is in danger, the doctor was actually saving lives. So by NOT aborting Roeder, his mother not only condemned a doctor to death, but also the future women he would have saved, had he lived.

LanaD...that's because you're a heartless b!tch!! Oh, of course, it's YOUR body....it's the childs body too idiot...where's it's"CHOICE"?????

Out of their minds is putting it nicely.

This is unsettling because if Roeder prevails it's open season on doctors who provide a legal service. Unfortunately, I cannot dismiss this affirmative defense as frivolous.

However, this is hardly my area of law. Perhaps others can set me straight on the legalities.

Defense of others is similar to self-defense and is defined under state law. Here in CT the jury instructions are typical and recite, in relevant part:

"a person is justified in using reasonable physical force upon another person to defend (himself/herself/a third person) from what (he/she) reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force, and (he/she) may use such degree of force which (he/she) reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose."

Some jurisdictions permit a defendant to assert defense of others, even where the defendant is mistaken as to the existence of a threat, as long as the mistake is reasonable in the defendant's view.

We initially scoffed at the now accepted "battered spouse syndrome" as a defense, even though the battered spouse had alternatives to resorting to disproportionate, even lethal, action.

Worse, a MI court in 2002 recognized the right of a pregnant woman to assert a defense of others defense to defend her unborn fetus even as the court denied her the right to defend herself with the same lethal force. 253 Mich. App. 317; 654 N.W.2d 651 (Mich. App. 2002). Is it really a very far leap to a third-party asserting that right for the fetus?

I certainly hope the court slams the door on this defense. BTW, I. personally, am opposed to abortion.

Any jury that would buy this proposed defense is just as insane as Roeder. I suppose if he wins, someone can bust a cap in his ass to protect the doctors.

above-

Defense of others pertains to defending other lives, which is the overall point of the abortion topic. When does life start?

Most people revert to their religious beliefs to answer this question, and each religion has a different answer. Then you add in science, the whole "separation of church and state" thing (that right-wing conservatives just can not understand), the overall societal problem of limited resources with a growing population, and the vast number of currently un-wanted children in foster care . . . and you have the mess we are in.

Your name(Evil Dee) says a lot about you!! Your KIND slay me....It's ok to kill babies all day long...but someone kills the killer himself...."What a horrific person"...you people are sick!!.....Funny, how the vast majority of those who are "Pro-choice"(killing innocent children) think his death is so terrible....SICK!

Not to mention, to he!! with all the other ob/gyn services this doctor (and other women's health clinics targetted by anti-abortion activists) provided - services that no doubt save the lives of many women, increase their quality of life, and even assist many women who chose to carry their pregnancies to term and received excellent prenatal care .

And post natal care. Counseling, shots, the checkups that come after giving birth for both mother and child to make sure everything is still okay.

So this guy Roeder knows more than God, huh? The 6th Commandment says not to kill. But then, perhaps God did not know what He actually meant, and needed the pro-lifers to define it for Him, thus letting us all know exactly WHEN it is okey to kill. Anyone already born is fair game, it seems.

But then, as some politician said about the Magna Carta, those old writing are just so quaint, especially that pesky ole' adultry Commandment, but that's another thread.

thanks, myopinion, and what about the women who run into health complications and have to choose between an abortion and putting their own lives at risk? All the women who could have come to Dr. Tiller to have this done for that reason as well, now have to find soemwhere else to go ebfore it's to late to end the pregnancy before it's now longer allowed (before whichever trimester is the rule..I don't remember, but there are enough medical tests now to determine the chances of a dangerous pregnancy, both to the mother and the child...)

This is religious zealotry and domestic terrorism. Try him as a terrorist (oh, wait, they won't do that, he is not muslim).

Except for the fact that one of the random infidels Hasan killed was a pregnant mother. They'd probably both strangle each other to death (in God's name of course).

The difference is, one admits his responsibility and the other remains to be seen, but I'll bet he will have lot's of excuses.

Only reason this won't be tried as terrorism is because he is not muslim.

That's exactly why I firmly believe abortion is morally wrong. Who are we to decide to end a life, no matter the age of that life? And I'm not trying to justify Roeder's actions, because I believe what he did was wrong, too.

And who are you to decide what is and isn't life, when it is still a fetus relying on another person's wellbeing? I think it is fine for you to think abortion morally wrong - that is why you will never be forced to have one. All the pro-choicers want is the same consideration to make the decisions regarding their bodies.

Who are we to decide to end a life, no matter the age of that life?

The age is only part of it. Its more about stopping something from using your body agianst your will. That can apply to anyone at any age.

Just curious: who do our organs belong to? Us as individuals? The government? The community? The uterus is an organ just like a prostate for a man. So, who does a man's prostate belong to? At what point do our organs stop being our own? At what point do we no longer have a right to either have or not to have medical procedures performed on our organs (if ever)? At what point do we as individuals lose our right to say, "Hey, I don't want this in my body or to go through this biological process/change and therefore I want this procedure?" At what point do do we lose the right to medical privacy and the right to make medical decisions along with our doctors? In short, when do we stop being individuals with expectations of privacy to community or government property?

I agree Minn...I find abortion reprehensible but it is legal. I find the death penalty reprehensible as well. Late term abortion is infanticide but the name is prettified for the masses.

I've been reading a number of entries, most are knee-jerk reactions to murder while humorously ignoring the 'abortion is also murder' logic. This one got me, though. HSB talking about our organs and how we could lose control over what happens to them medically, and blah blah blah. There is a huge difference between an organ that I need removed because it is inflamed and slowly poisoning me and an organ that is in fact a human being. Once those cells (sperm and egg) connect, that's life. End of story. Individually, neither the sperm or egg will become life, but together: With our powers combined, form of a person! There is no medical privacy breaches here. Just because you have the ability to get pregnant (which, just to be clear, is not some super power but your body's natural ability. Like breathing. Or digesting.), that does not mean you all of the sudden can do whatever you want with the baby. I don't get how once it's born it has rights, but if it's still inside then it has the rights of a piece of garbage. I'm an atheist, for the record, science is guiding me on this one. Multi-cellular life comprised of human genetics equals a living person even if it looks like a blob.

I've been reading a number of entries, most are knee-jerk reactions to murder while humorously ignoring the 'abortion is also murder' logic.

Abortion is NOT murder.

There is a huge difference between an organ that I need removed because it is inflamed and slowly poisoning me and an organ that is in fact a human being.

Even human beings aren't allowed to use another humans body agianst their will.

Once those cells (sperm and egg) connect, that's life.

Thats your opinion. Some believe every sperm is sacred. I believe that once a sperm and egg connect then incubate for about 23 weeks it is a life.

Individually, neither the sperm or egg will become life, but together:

Individually, an embryo will not become life without the mothers body for a certain amount of time.

With our powers combined, form of a person!

With a certain amount of gestational time, form a person.

Just because you have the ability to get pregnant (which, just to be clear, is not some super power but your body's natural ability. Like breathing. Or digesting.), that does not mean you all of the sudden can do whatever you want with the baby.

Agreed, you can not do whatever you want with the baby. But the fetus that is using your body agianst your will is another matter.

I don't get how once it's born it has rights, but if it's still inside then it has the rights of a piece of garbage.

Actually it gets rights once it becomes viable. Using someones body agianst their will is not a right.

Multi-cellular life comprised of human genetics equals a living person even if it looks like a blob

Yeah right. And an acorn is an oak tree.

tonyfpaz, the sperm and the egg are also alive. Every sperm and egg has the ability to become a human being (unless its defective). So if you're so concerned about life, from a biological point of view, then I hope you don't ever use contraception or masturbate. Because if you do, then you're killing millions of sperm whose only reason for being alive is to fertilize that egg.

But it seems men don't worry about that. It's only once it's in the woman that they're so all-fire concerned.

FIRST there is no reason to have an abortion...there is plenty of ways not to get pregnant..(not like the old days).. The Catholic church has responsiblities in encouraging any and everyone to get pregnant, married or not, 12 years old or not.. Shame on them for this type of behavior, I know have as many as you can...for God's Church. If you don't want abortions, then make sure there aren't any pregnancies. Instead of going out and killing someone else for something you believe is wrong...this has got to STOP!!

Lana: It's not that cut and dried...it wouldn't be such a hot button, emotional issue if it was.

Minneapolitan

Only God can decide who dies and when.

Who Says?! You may believe that and it's a fairly nice and benign belief, but if God is all powerful and God decides something, man can't go against it. If man can go against your belief in what God believes, then perhaps your belief about what God thinks is what's in error!

NanaAnna,

I agree that the best way is for the women who don't want children to not get pregnant in the first place. Unfortunately this isn't always possible. There are women who can't afford the pill, and who are with men (boyfriends or husbands) who refuse to use a condom, and who refuse to go without sex. These women are left without much choice.

Someone further up mentioned natural family planning, which is fine if the man agrees that there are some days of the month when he can't have sex with his wife. Unfortunately, there are men out there who feel its their right to have sex with their woman whenever they want. And if she gets pregnant, she's told it's her fault and she better 'take care of it'.

Not to mention, there are always accidents, even when the woman is able to control her own method of birth control. What do you tell a husband and wife where the man has been laid off, the woman is working part-time to try to pay the bills, they already have 2 or 3 children, and she accidentally gets pregnant? Are you saying married couples in this situation should either add to an already difficult situation by having an unwanted child, or should stop having sex in the first place?

Leave the man before killing a child. No man is worth murdering for. there are shelters. i would kill anyone before my son or daughter. babies are so cute..men, not so cute.

Smart. Unfortunately abused women find it very hard to get out. It's only the lucky ones who make it to a shelter.

And that doesn't help the scenario of the woman supporting her family on her own. Should she leave them as well?

I agree Minn...I find abortion reprehensible but it is legal. I find the death penalty reprehensible as well. Late term abortion is infanticide but the name is prettified for the masses.

You should look into the very strict guidlines for who, why, and when someone can get a late-term abortion. It is not open for anyone on a whim. Not looking into this and educating yourself makes you sound ignorant.

For your information, the vast majority of late-term abortions are when either the mother or child WILL die during pregnancy. Would you rather the child be born, and die in excruciating pain and agony? What type of person does that make you, that you would wish that upon any child?

"Every sperm is sacred, Every sperm is good. . ."

lol I needed a laugh! I'm from Wichita, my neighborhood is next to the church where Dr. Tiller was murdered. For months, even years, abortion protestors stood outside the church protesting his presence there; they parked their truck with a grisly picture of an aborted fetus outside the church; they pressured the church to kick him out. That's not to say how else they tormented Dr. Tiller's life and that of his employees and volunteers.

These fanatics are encouraging and supporting the radical acts. After a doctor is murdered, the groups try to disassociate themselves with the murderer, but we all know it was their words and actions that caused it. Operation Rescue is as guilty as Roeder who pulled the trigger.

But thanks to our now right leaning Supreme Court they cannot be tried as an ongoing criminal conspiracy even that is clearly what Operation Rescue is

Domestic Terrorism, and a terroristic organization.

That's bullsh1t. Operation rescue a teroristic operation?...Wow, what a reach. Abortion is legal, will remain legal and will never be overturned. Some random psychotic shoots an abortion provider and all the pro-choice twits get their undies in a bunch. The British are coming! Many groups that are pro-life or slant that way actually put their money where their mouth is and help women and their children...The real question for any woman who loves herself or other women (and men who do too)is, why are there still so many abortions??? It's a huge money maker.

There is a report by an ex worker at planned parenthood that they have a quota system. They have a set number of abortions that they need to have per month to maintain their funding. I guess if you can convience American's that Obammy is experienced enough to be president, you can convience a confussed little 16 or 17 year old,"THIS IS YOUR ONLY REAL OPTION."

Wow JB...you sound like you've got the goods there. Your "There is a report..." could stand up in any court.....in Iran maybe. You should shut up if all you have is that, and a silly name for Obama.

JB- I can not believe that you would actually believe such stupid propaganda lies about Planned Parenthood. I volunteer there and let me tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about and to be honest I think you just made up that lie on the spot just to prevoke everyone

Roslyn and Kevin, The ladies name was Abby Johnson and she worked in the Planned Parenthood in Bryon, Texas ( try google). I may occasionally be off on some part of a comment, but I would never lie on purpose, that is the ONE thing I will not do. Now, I did read it on a site that MIGHT lean a little right, but I did not just pull it out of my .....

Why not? If someone breaks into my house and threatens to kill my kids with a coat hangar, you're absolutely right I'm going to "blow them away".... and I'm going to walk.

Everything else aside, it never ceases to amaze me how many of the pro-choice crowd is anti-gun. Seriously.

Bunch of double standard morons!!...I like how "Autuer"claims "A Woman doesn't even know she's pregnant for months!"...lmao!! MAYBE if they're as stupid as she is!!Good God!

Then should all miscarages be given a christian burial. If it is a life, then I guess you give that 1/2 inch glob a coffin and a funeral, etc . . .

Absurd argument.

I talk to God every day. She has assured me my body is Her gift to me. NO ONE has the right to make decisions concerning this body but me. I seek Her council but at the end of the day all my decisions, whatever the issue, whatever the outcome are predicated on Mercy and Grace. Not that many years ago when I was given irrefutable proof that my life is in the cleft of the Rock, as I spent days immobilised the refrain played over and over. . .Mercy and Grace. d voice, it is your soul which is dark and ignorant. And no, I am not a fundie. I eschew religion for the harm it does the soul.

Amen! The religious right want's government out of their business unless they can use it to promote their business. I for one think that if their message was that powerful, why do they rely on the worst run organization (our govt) to deliver it? For those of you that are anti-choice, why are you wasting your time trying to bully and terrorize people instead of using your time to help and protect children that actually need help? Killing doctors will not stop abortions, outlawing them will not stop abortions. Education and access to birth control are better options that work.

Where in the bible does it say abortion is wrong? If you are talking about the 10 commandments, then I suggest you tell people not to lie, steal, dishonor their mother or father etc., because they all will go to hell.

desert voice - You seem to be judging others - thought that was God's work, not yours.... You are presumptuous to pretend to be holier than the next lame person on this planet. Follow your religion - that is your right in this country.

Harassing others who see things differently AND are acting according to the law should be a criminal offense. No matter how loud or how long you scream, others do not have to agree with your views.

Hell is a delusion intended to create fear and allow religious zealots to control others. Many women suffer hell on earth from having to deal with preaching hypocrites.....those who support a person who kills just because he agrees with their politics. I hope you are not one of them...

desert voice, you are frightening me. My body belongs to ME. Not your imaginary friend, ok?

Where are people not allowed to have abortions? I've posted before that I live near abortion clinic that's so busy you'd think they were giving away free money.

desert voice

You state religious views as if they are laws. Not everyone believes in God. In this country it is each persons right to believe or not believe as they so choose. Religion should stay out of government just as government should stay out of religion. Some people believe you should just be a good person, help your fellow man, not hurt other living breathing people, you know just be a decent human being. You do not need a higher power to do this either just the will.

I sometimes joke about starting a new church called "The Church of Don't be an A$s".

I've posted before that I live near abortion clinic that's so busy you'd think they were giving away free money.

The two clinics that I am a regular Pro-Choice escort at are only open on Fridays and Saturdays.

...Are we talking about the same government that congress wants to run health care? Just checking.

Personally, I am against late-term abortions unless the fetus is clinically unviable or the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother. At some point, the fetus becomes a baby and has a right to their body as well. Any late term abortion (which should be defined as an abortion that is later than 22 weeks) that is used as birth control rather than a medically necessary procedure should be against the law. That is just my personal opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

From what I understand, the doctor that was killed in this case did not perform late-term abortions unless the fetus was clinically unviable, or the life of the mother was in danger.

Late-term abortion is something that should be up for INTELLIGENT debate, not something that you put up on billboards with sickening pictures. Roeder is a MURDERER and needs to be prosecuted as such - and if that includes the death penalty, so be it.

Then you should move to the Northeast to further your 'noble' profession...or is it volunteerism? Don't answer, I don't care and can tell you're a holier than thou pro-choicer. Ew.

Yep. Nobody thinks this through. Let's say we pass a law that says 'no abortions.' (ok, there's caveats like 'except for suchandso' but basically, no abortions) Now: a young med student finds herself preggers after a kegger and tells her roomie "yikes, I'm not doing this - I'm gonna have Steve do an abort after the clinic closes tonite." Roomie says "oh no, that's against the law" and calls the cops. Young med student gets caught almost in the act and admits her intent and is arrested and taken to jail to await trial. She declares her intent to abort as soon as she is released. So now what? We declare her nuts and move her over to the state-run mental health facility. She declares she will not eat or drink unless they release her, gets hysterical and reaches for a letter opener. We strap her down and insert a feeding tube. Scared yet? I am. But wait, it gets better. We wheel her down the hall into a larger room where there are dozens of other women, all in various stages of pregnancy, in five point restraints, feeding tubes and ivs in place, where she stays 8 months until she delivers. Now what do we do with her? If she wasn't crazy before she most certainly is now, she'll never finish med school but has a hundred thousand or more in student loans to pay back...sigh.

It's not that I object to 'let's find a better way' because abortions aren't fun and nobody is getting them for the cookies, it's just that making them illegal not only won't stop them but will turn us into something worse than we are now. It just won't work.

people who talk to god are either mentally ill or liars. when that delusion or dishonesty is used to base legislation on, our whole country is poisoned.

?

Sharon, I don't want a law that says "no abortions."

I have a half-brother that was born at 21 weeks, and is now perfectly normal little boy. I remember him struggling to survive after birth.

What I would like is to draw a line in the sand and understand that often a BABY born after 22 weeks is viable and also should have a right to THEIR body.

If the mother's life is in danger, or if the fetus is not viable, then I think that the procedure should still be legal (regardless of the age of the fetus.)

At some point we need to recognize that there are condoms, birth control pills, spermicides, diaphragms, morning-after pills, early-term abortions, and other ways to prevent the NEED for late-term abortions as a method of birth control.

Again, that is a personal opinion, nothing more, nothing less. It is something that I personally believe.

Again, I believe that Roeder should be punished for his horrific crime. The doctor that he killed was (as far as I know) saving the lives of mothers because of this procedure, and not using it as a method of birth control.

Sharon...knee jerk doomsday scenarios are way too emotional and draining...as well as false.

smp65, talk about knee-jerk and falsehoods! You claim you live near an abortion clinic ". . .that's so busy you'd think they were giving away free money." I suspect your label is a lie. The clinic is most like a reproductive health clinic where women can get a wide range of services: pap tests, B/C counseling and pills, STD education, rape prevention etc etc. Gee, maybe they are also getting pregnancy tests and referrals to support agencies. But then, that would never occur to you, would it?

No, it's strictly an abortion clinic. It's been near my neighborhood for years right next to a sandwich shop...kinda gross. I also live near a Planned Parenthood clinic that does not do abortions but does dispense free birth control, morning after pill, pap tests etc...How is my label a lie and what does that mean?

Marcella..And the unborn childs body is HERS/HIS!!! What gives YOU the right to eliminate a life?

With rights come obligations. I have an obligation to determine what kind of world a child that I am carrying will be born into. I also have an obligation to asses my ability to provide the most basic care, as well as assess my ability to provide what I determine to be necessary for that child to grow up to be a sane, productive member of society. If I am a drug addict, or struggling with some sort of mental illness, or struggling to leave poverty behind, then I may very well choose not to bring one more child into the world, that will cause that merry-go-round to spin for one more generation.

I'm not going to bother with messy arguments about when life begins. As far as I'm concerned when sperm meets egg is good enough for me. I can't tell you when a soul becomes present. It doesn't matter to me. The question for me is what will happen to that soul if I bring it into the world with every obstacle possible in its path.

Morgan, Why can you not make that decision prior to 22 Weeks? Also, why is adoption not an option? Again, I am neither for nor against the Roe v Wade decision, but at some point you need to say it is a BABY and not a mass of cells. I suggest that it is at 22 weeks. Exceptions for saving the life of the mother, or terminating the life of the baby due to severe medical problems should be included as reasons to terminate after 22 weeks.

By the way, legal precedent has been set that an unborn baby is a life. When a pregnant woman is murdered, the killer is often charged with a double homicide.

RV, because adoption is a double edged sword, there is a chance for the child to be molested, or abused, physically, emotionally, mentally and psychologically. Also 22 weeks is when the fetus' organs have begun actually developing and forming, unless there is a serious life threatening malformation.

Also the legal precedent is set when the mother is at term, which is when the murder typically occurs.

I feel deeply sorry for the doctor that was killed, and I have conflicting thoughts about Mr. Roeder. The first should never have been killed. That's a terrible crime. His life was also God's! The latter took the Divine justice in his own hands. That's pitiable! No human can make himself into God even if the cause seems right. This indeed is Taliban stuff! The whole matter makes me sick from the beginning to the end. Not even in Greek tragedy situations as these arised - string of abominable crimes! First a doctor kills hundreds if not thousands unborn. That to me is a crime of inmense proportions. Then another lunatic masquerades as "God," and kills the doctor. A criminal kills a criminal! Then we have a woman, many women, proclaiming their "inalienable right" to kill more babies, under the pretext that these are "their own flesh." Mothers that kill own children! More crime! Crime upon crime! These things are a sickening reminder that we live in the last times! For the Bible says: evil will be the norm in the last times!

desert voice, your reference to Greek Tragedy is...well, confusing. As to the rest of the post, do you actually think women, after 10,000 years of having to get by in a patriarchal society, do no have built in radar about the CONTROL that men have thought necessary during that time??? It's only in the last 50 years, and only in certain countries, that MEN have begun to value women as human, equals, contributors. Your post shows there is still miles to go.

The Taliban is simply one groups interpretation of their religion, sure it works well for them personnally kind of like most organized religion in this country. They have taken it a few steps further, but the fundies know they would be targets if they pushed the envelope too far.
"Violence is not wrong in all situations, so if it takes that — then if it is done righteously — then, if it's done, it is OK," Roeder has said.
Looks like operation rescue could be in physical danger if his rational is picked up on.

Desert Voice, How do you think the majority of abortions happen? I'm not bashing men, believe me, but in my experience with women and the reasons they abort their fetus is in a direct link to a man. When abortion became legal there were lot of men telling their wives, lovers, mistresses and their rape victim they didn't want a child. It isn't reasonable to bash women for abortions alone. There has been a partnership. Our bodies (both men and women) belong to us period. Even your God knows we are not puppets dangling from his strings. He created us in a way that we can make our choices. When making abortions legal came about those protesting have no right in their violence, they are anti-abortion and pro murder. That's a tricky one.

easydoesit, maybe desert voice is a man that does have miles to go...

The Law, I'm with you on this one. Why men have a say in whether or not a woman has an abortion confuses me. I know there are cases, rare ones indeed, that come from conflicts that will never be resolved and the poor fetus is held dangling over this conflict due to its fuel feeding capacity to keep the conflict fires burning. Most cases, however, are from need and many from coercion. Abortion will always be a touchy subject, but having it legalized has saved a lot of women misery. All the rant about "welfare" moms is just one of the points. Women left high and dry with a baby on the way sometimes just cannot face what lies ahead. On the other hand the man she is dating rapes a woman and he tells her to get an abortion and she does not. She'd like to abort him, but gives him the option of getting completely out of her life and stop stalking her or step up to the plate and take responsibility. There are a million scenarios and most of them have cause.

Not to mention how many women are scared away from clinics like PP by the protesters, when they more than likely are going their for health concerns ... annual exams ... prenatal care ... birth control ... etc. They would have us believe that PP and other women's health clinics only exist to push abortions on unsuspecting women.

Roslyn what do you think the answer is to women who keep having abortions?

I can take this one.

I worked as a counselor and allot of the women who do not use birth control, and thus do use abortion consistently are in abusive and controlling relationships. The men they are with rent them out to other men, control every aspect of thier lives and use getting them pregnant as a means of control them even more. I'm not saying it's healthy, but I also will not say they have much control to make decision in their lives in the first place.

How many women have numerous abortions? And how many of these so-called pro-lifers have adopted the babies they want to force women to keep?

I'm beginning to call these radical "conservatives" form of thought "Palin Thinkin", where what they think and say may sound good, but there's no reality in it. Like abstinence: sure, in a perfect world, just telling teens not to have sex is the best way, but as Palin, who was pregnant when she married, AND her daughter, who has a child out of wedlock, both prove, is not reality. Another example: health care reform, where their argument is everyone needs to work and take care of their own insurance, but in reality, there are many people in America who either can't work, or do work but don't make enough money to afford health insurance. Health issues are the #1 cause of bankruptcy filings. And in reality, it's NOT lazy people who don't want to work. Wake up, America, quit "Palin Thinkin" and let's all work together for the good of our country.

And, nothing gives anyone the right to kill someone who disagrees with their radical political views. Notice how all these abortion clinic bombers are all republicans, and call themselves christians? Is the GOP the American Taliban? And are the Tea Baggers the new KKK? Be wary, America, be very wary...

I think if we did away with abstinence only sex ed, it would decrease the number of abortions being done as birth control.

Roslyn what do you think the answer is to women who keep having abortions?

I think it is none of your business. You can't legislate morality.

Roslyn, let's reason. These men "who have hate in their eyes," are indeed despicable. But are you sure it's always hate? Is it not by chance that they see devil in you? Is it not that this appears to you as hate? I hate no one, but women who are ready to kill their babies scare me to death! This reflects probably in my eyes when we meet, also. But I don't hate them! I want to reason with them, to save them from hell! Neither do I despise the "welfare Moms"! On the contrary, I have given my own home to people like this, and became homeless myself! Is that "hate"? For you, may be. But I am a Christian and a man. As such, I go out of my way to help wherever I can to those who need help, beginning with women and children! This said, as a Christian, I cannot keep silence on the evil of abortion! I will not lead anyone to hell by my silence!

I totally agree, desert voice. Even if a woman thinks she has a right to do what she wants with her own body, consider the child within her is NOT hers.

The reasoning of this country seems way off. Everything that used to be good is bad--everything that used to be bad is good. I am amazed at the things that are illegal, yet we can murder our babies!

Come Lord Jesus.

Hey Desert Voice...who are YOU to push your religion? What would you say if I said I saw the devil in you? You can throw labels around all you want...in the end we're all human beings with the freedom to do as we choose. Abortion has existed for THOUSANDS of years...yup, that's right. The ancient Greeks would prescribe low dosages of poison or excessive exercise to terminate a pregnancy...and there's evidence ancient man during the Ice Age did the same in order to control the number of mouths they had to feed.

This is nothing new...just new to those of you who've lived their entire lives with their head in the sand.

Even if a woman thinks she has a right to do what she wants with her own body, consider the child within her is NOT hers.

If it is inside her and needs her and only her body for all sustanence and nutrients, its hers.

I am amazed at the things that are illegal, yet we can murder our babies!

We can not murder our babies. I went to school with a guy who is in jail right this second for killing his baby because it wouldn't stop crying.

Praise be to the God made in your own image. I thank God he's not mine.

Your god is the biggest abortionist on the planet. More die by his hand than any other being, imaginary or otherwise.

I'd rathe a fetus be aborted than a child killed at the hands of an angry and bitter parent. What needs to happen is better sex education. Abstinaance only education is a joke. Here is something funny for you. Funny scary not funny haha. The school that my 12 year old stepson attends teaches abstinance only. ok BUT they also offer a class for teenagers who decide they want to get pregnant. How to get jobs without hs dipomas and balance a checkbbook. How to care for a baby and run a household. Explain how this makes sense. I'd rather they had a class on proper birth control and how to not spread disease than advocate teenage pregnancy.

natasha....your story...so horrible...I am speechless....

many, not all, anti-choice groups are terroristic organizations. They use fear (ie. terror) to push their agenda.

Agreed. As the late great George Carlin said, they're not pro-life, "they're anti-women..."

Some of them are. Not all though.

There was a U.S. Catholic program I heard of once that took in battered women, and single mothers, baby sat while young mothers attended school and work and got them on their feet with a good career to go with it. I will allow myself to believe this program is honorable. I will call them prolife.

Allot of the far right fringe people though? It's all politics. Won't give a dime and are willing to kill over political stances. Not very prolife. I call them anti-woman.

I agree. I resent that they call themselves pro-life. Exactly whose life? Certainly not the women nor even the child they are trying to force the women to carry.

They truly are anti-abortion. There is nothing life about them.

It's controlling women. Why are there so many more men anti-abortionist than there are women? And certainly the people at the top of the anti-abortionist groups are all men. Not rocket science to figure this out. It's all about control.

It is amazing that this 2% is the cornerstone of the Republican party and takes up more than 50% of the presidential election debates.

The decisions comes down to one that should be made by the child's future mother (if she is even old enough) and the father (if he is even in the picture).

This man should be put down like the psychotic bible-thumping murderer he is.

If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

No one "controls women." A man must warn a woman when she strays. Otherwise, he is not a man!

desert voice - "warn"????? you sound like someone who tries to be nice, but still justifies the evil.

if you think "disciplining" women is the path to being a real man, then you really are twisted. all that religious stuff you say here is meaningless. I am not religious, but know that Jesus was a person who believed in embracing everyone, no matter what flaws they had. the intolerance of many so-called "Christians" amuses me - and shows me they know little about the man - Jesus, nor do they emulate His values or life.

Try another religion....

deetoo

Exactly my thoughts.

This whole conversation reminds me of the politicians who get on their soapbox against gay marriage because it tarnishes the sanctity of marriage, while at the same time cheating on their wives.

Robb...where did you get those stats and please cite them.

desert voice, I commend you on your patience with those that disagree with you. Noah tried reasoning with his generation for 120 years, in the end there were only 8 people that were delivered. I can only imagine what must have gone through the minds of those that had mocked him when they were denied entry. I don't expect the Good News will be widely received in this the last days.

Don't get discouraged for our deliverance draws near, very near.

desertvoice and Pete, Keep on pounding your women and keep them in line with your damnation and hellfire. Keep your bible close and keep on thumping it because who knows when someone might come up with a sensible idea and you'll need to get your reference out. No one controls another. God does not control us and man does not control us. Get over yourselves, you are not that high and mighty. I pity your poor women.

Many are nothing more than terroristic organizations filled with religious zealots.

In all likelihood, his lawyers will be begging him to take a plea, in which his life is spared. It's up to the defendant, so who knows? Maybe he'll want a trial, even after his lawyers explain how he has no legal defense.

Killing a doctor in cold blood is not self-defense or defense of others, no matter how this lunatic characterizes his actions.

As you would fetuses with just as little forethought!

We have a death penalty in Kansas and the worst of criminals have been sentenced... but no one actually gets put to death. It's just a huge expense and lawyers are the only ones gaining anything. Roeder was seen and he's confessed, but it still isn't going to happen.

As much as he deserves to die, let's just go ahead and call it life without parole and then take away his access to other fanatics. And get the media to quit listening to him.

TOR - no matter how much you disagree with the doctor's actions, he was acting within the law, and thus killing him is an evil crime.

stop bringing up the doctor's professional work as a way of trying to justify the murder of a man. Roeder is a murderer. if I disagree with your political views, that is no basis for justifying me murdering you.....

THINK.

Where do I get to opt my tax dollars out of the fund that will feed, clothe, educate and give medical care to this scum?

You know since we seem to be able to choose where our tax dollars go these days.

Ignorance is killing the unborn right now!

Well said, Sophie! And you are right about the hidden goals of the anti-abortion people. I infiltrated a group in the South Bay area of Los Angeles, and heard for myself the hidden agenda and the misinformation spread at the meetings. According to the people running that meeting, the low estrogen birth control pill should be banned as an abortifacient, the IUD must be banned as an abortifacient, and of course Plan B ("morning after pill"). They seemed determined to ban contraceptives. Why is it that many of the same people who want to control women's reproductive lives are opposed to universal health care as supposedly too much control over our medical care?

Tor - 744926

Your ignorance is killing me! Who gave you the right to decided what woman should or shouldn't do with their bodies. I can only imagine that you are a dedicated "christian" in which case isn't there something in you handy dandy notebook against judgement?

Why is it that many of the same people who want to control women's reproductive lives are opposed to universal health care as supposedly too much control over our medical care?

Because THIS is in the name of GOD and Jesus! Health care is the DEVIL!

Because THIS is in the name of GOD and Jesus! Health care is the DEVIL!

HAHAHAHA....Hummm isnt that what Hasan yelled as he was getting ready to kill american soldiers? Ironic

HAHAHAHA....Hummm isnt that what Hasan yelled as he was getting ready to kill american soldiers? Ironic

Um, am I on a thread about Fort Hood? No, very much not. I don't care what Hasan said - we're talking about Roeder.

Well maybe you should think about what your saying! What else is OK with you "In the name of god and jesus"? Thats the point, its a ridiculous statement...and if nobody ever did anything more "in the name of god" the world would be a better place!

I think that was Michelle Bachmann.

Typical fundamentalist beliefs at work here as usual. These people believe what is convenient for them to believe.

And their posts sound so smug as they sit in judgement of lives not their own!! 17,000 kids die every single day on Planet Earth do to lack of food, or illness due to lack of food...where are the protestors? Where is the anger? The saddness?

Again, this whole issue is about CONTROLLING women. Not a dang thing to do with kids, born or unborn!

Well maybe you should think about what your saying! What else is OK with you "In the name of god and jesus"? Thats the point, its a ridiculous statement...and if nobody ever did anything more "in the name of god" the world would be a better place!

You missed my sarcasm in the worst way. I don't believe in God and Jesus.

It's also about keeping a steady stream of potential new followers.

Sarcasm in words is difficult for a poor writer. The reader should not be blamed.

I do take issue with those quoting the bible and often committing sexual acts upon children yet say abortion is horrific. I once had a young friend who was in a sexual relationship with her Priest. She'd had four abortions, the good old back alley kind with no support. All of these abortions occurred before her 21st birthday. If there ever was a cause for legalizing abortion, this type of event sews it up. No one knows why a woman chooses abortion and it is no ones business. Legal abortions are so much better than the old back alley coat hanger approach.

No, The law must prevail. If you want to change it vote.

What he did probably killed a few women and prolonged some infants suffering before an inevitable death. Other than that he probably just inconvenienced the women to have to travel to another abortion provider.

History of Tiller showed that he killed late term babies for no reason other than for the money. I want someone to show me where killing a late term baby had a medical reason. Who are we to say what an "inevitable death" is. There are many cases where the baby was thought to die and the mother chose life and the baby is living a normal life. And I really don't care if a women is inconvenienced. A baby should have the chance to live. What if we could all kill someone if they inconvenienced us?

What about Tiller's family? What about his wife and kids? His brothers and sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles? What about his friends? They lost someone precious to them because of this misguided lunatic. Don't they deserve some justice? Pardoned for murder? I don't think so.

Chuck, you are an idiot. Do breast implants serve a medical purpose? What about skin grafting for a burn victim. Sure, it makes people look better...but does it serve a MEDICAL purpose? Are you trying to tell us that any procedure should now have a medical purpose? Should the poor kid with a hair lip be forced to live with a deformity because fixing it wouldn't serve a medical purpose? You are a moron.

An abortion is a medical procedure which removes a parasitic organism that a woman decides she no longer wants to support. Like it or not it's HER body and not yours. Tiller didn't force abortions on anyone, he was providing a service. Would you then condone the murder of McDonald's workers because people are dying of heart disease?

Try arguing with intelligence and logic instead of idiotic drivel.

And I really don't care if a women is inconvenienced

Well this no shocking comment from a MAN. Idiot

Chuck, show me the proof that he aborted later term fetuses for no reason. About 1% of all abortions are performed past 21 weeks. Why do you think that is? Because you have to have a very good reason to have one.

I want someone to show me where killing a late term baby had a medical reason.

Surely you have heard of fetal deformities or defects haven't you? If not look them up.

There are many cases where the baby was thought to die and the mother chose life and the baby is living a normal life.

But most of the time that is not the case. It just ends up being an emotional hell for the parents while racking up thousands of dollars in medical bills.

And I really don't care if a women is inconvenienced.

Ha. You wouldn't.

A baby should have the chance to live.

Agreed babies should be given the chance to live...as long as they don't have to use someones body against their will. Oh wait, babies don't need another persons body for all nutrients and sustenance. Thats fetuses.

What if we could all kill someone if they inconvenienced us?

If that "inconvenience" means using our body against our will then, yeah, we are allowed to kill them.

Chuck, you are obviously an uneducated moron who refuses to have his mind made up by the facts.
FACT- IN ALL STATES THAT ALLOW ABORTION AFTER 18 WEEKS THE LAW STATES THAT THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER, RAPE/INCEST, OR SEVERE FETAL ANAMOLY.

So just shut your trap about things you know absolutely nothing about. Until you have walked a mile in my shoes STFU.

Wonderful, so anyone who is intolerant of others should just be able to gun them down?  How trruly Christian and American of you.

To Chuck: There is not a word of truth to your claim that Tiller did abortions for the money. Your ignorance is only overshadowed by your lies.

Look at the case in Kansas that was against him. If he had legitimate med reasons, than why did he have to fabricate them to justify the abortion? He received $5,000 per abortion. A very good incentive to try and justify it. After 18 weeks, all a woman has to do is claim emotional distress. One can use this excuse for anything. If the baby is ment to die then so be it, but we shouldn't kill babies that capable of living. If you don't want a child, then there is a simple way to avoid it. If you can't figure that out you shouldn't be joining in on this conversation. In cases of insest or rape, many women have said that knowing you killed a baby is worse that dealing with the rape. Whether you like it or not, the baby is a human being. Call it what ever you want, but it is still a human being. The baby should take priority over any "inconvenience." And the baby didn't take over anyones body. I can't even believe someone would type such a thing.

And for Bu9mar, how the hell can you compare murdering a baby with breast implants? Are you that ignorant that you can not see a difference?

And what about Tiller's family? What did they think about killing babies? If they supported it, they aren't any better.

And for the first comment, voting does no good when the majority of people are against abortion, yet the government doesn't care what the people want. It is what a select few want and are willing to interpret the constitution the way they want. To justify abortion by saying it is a right of privacy is a joke.

After 18 weeks, all a woman has to do is claim emotional distress.

That is a LIE. Now, if she tries to kill herself or has a history of depression or emotional disorders then of course the abortion should be allowed.

If you don't want a child, then there is a simple way to avoid it.

Oh, so are you saying my husband and I shouldn't be having sex?

cases of insest or rape, many women have said that knowing you killed a baby is worse that dealing with the rape.

Good thing no one is killing any babies. And there are many women who said carrying their rapist child would be like reliving the rape every time they look down. Some are afraid of passing on their rapist genes.

And the baby didn't take over anyones body

Yes it did. If it didn't then there would be no unwanted pregnancies.

What did they think about killing babies?

Stop with the killing babies crap. No one is talking about killing babies.

LanaD

No it isn't a lie. If she wants to kill herself, she should be in a hospital herself and how is she going to handle knowing she killed her baby... yes "baby" that is what it is.....a living, growing, human being.

If you and your husband want to have sex that is fine. My wife and I have been doing it for 12 years now and never once have had an unexpected child....and we don't use artificial birth control. Only natural family planning. I guess too many people aren't smart enought to figure that out, so killing a baby is ok?

The baby didn't take over anyones body. It was put there by actions of the parents.

If she wants to kill herself, she should be in a hospital herself and how is she going to handle knowing she killed her baby... yes "baby" that is what it is.....a living, growing, human being.

She might want to committ suicide because she is pregnant and doesn't want to be. Since you are a man you could never know the feeling of being a slave to your own body. Calling a fetus a baby is the same as calling a 6 year old a teenager. I know its hard for you to believe but not everyone loves their unwanted embryo. Most women who have abortions have no regrets.

If you and your husband want to have sex that is fine. My wife and I have been doing it for 12 years now and never once have had an unexpected child

My husband and I have been together for 6 years and use a number of birth control methods. We know they can fail and we have the money set aside just in case. Just curious, how many kids do you have?

I guess too many people aren't smart enought to figure that out, so killing a baby is ok?

Mistakes happen. We are only human. Birth control can fail. And once agian, no one is killing a baby.

The baby didn't take over anyones body. It was put there by actions of the parents

No it was not. If the act was strictly for pleasure that does not mean the woman gives up the rights to her body. That's like saying there are no car accidents because people drive. Like it or not but people can have sex for pleasure and pleasure only, not reproduction. Just because we enjoy sex does not mean we are forced to reproduce.

chuck, your version of god/mythology is disgusting. The God that I was raised to believe in would never condone this terrorists actions.

From now on Chuck whatever money you have and make must go to the thousands of children that have been saved. Sound good!

Wow Chuck, you are an infernal idiot. What about a hair lip? What about cosmetic skin grafting for a burn victim? So are you saying those things shouldn't be allowed because they aren't medically necessary? You pick the ONE thing out of my examples (breast implants)...did you bother to read my entire post or were the words too big and complex for you?

Chuck, you are an ignorant misogynistic a-hole.

This is an alert to all.  Newswire leaked my email address.  i got an email from "newswire mail" but do not know how the perpetrator got my personal account address.  see below.

Subject: killem
Name: adamrovich
Email: adamrovich@gmail.com

newswire said that email addresses are verified but never shown.  I reported it to the FBI considering "Killem" is in the subtitle and considered threatening. 

wow, can you sue? thats scary!

Bush & Cheney, Newsvine did not leak your e-mail address. You were contacted through Newsvine and if you want this person to know your e-mail address you must contact him or he will not know your personal imformation. Don't be so paranoid and if you must stay away from discussion groups.

I have found that many people that do choose to have a child are just the sort you don't want raising them.

I wish it weren't true, Terry. But it so is =(

An obortions is an obortion; what does Mexican or Muslim have to do with it?

texas, keep your stupid obama jokes for a political thread.

People who choose to have kids are the types that shouldn't have them in the first place.

And women do have abortions if their life is endanger or if the child has a serious life threatening malformation.

Umm, well his own attorney can call him to testify if the defendant wants to. At that point he could ask him what motivated the killings. Of course it doesn't matter a whit.

At that point the prosecutor will stand up and say "Objection! Relevance." The judge will say "Sustained. Please confine your questioning to the events, counselor."

Then the question would simply be: What were you thinking about when you pulled the trigger. That's relevant to the event.

I'm certainly no expert, but weren't those motives to be the center of Kopp's defense for murdering Slepian, but were never allowed into court?

He is a hero. the abortion doctor is a murderer, a proponent of genocide. abortion is murder. the pro-lifers believe that and are beginning to act like it. if you don't like it, move to France. or better yet, go to hell where you belong. don't lecture pro-lifers on morality when you support puncturing babies heads. it is murder. as God as our witness, you will answer for your evil.

It's not the doctor who's on trial for murder.

No he is not, but he should have been.

Nope, this is terrorism. This M n F'er is gonna fry. I'll do my part to see that abortion continues.

And I'll send $ to him to make his life a little more comfortable!

hero? genocide, what race of people is he trying to eliminate? ummm..abortion is not murder, it is legal under law. If you don't like the laws of this country, you can move to france. Send me to hell where I belong...judge not idiot. Who says they support puncturing babies heads? I assume you are referring to partial birth abortion and I suggest you read up on the indications where this method is preferred. Also, partial birth abortion is no longer an option for people. Your God is a baby killer.