What is terrorism's truest form?

nothing new here, you are so right. In fact, the media has been protecting him since they found out who did the shooting.

I love this quote: "Still, Mr. Benjamin added, Major Hassan had overlooked an important, and peaceable, tenet of Islam. 'We do have the right to retaliate,” he said, “but he who does not is twice blessed.'” Muslims have the right to retaliate? What was done to Hasan that he needed to retaliate for? Being given a free education? Being promoted when he clearly was not performing his job properly? Being shielded from prosecution for posting incendiary statements amounting to approving of terrorist methods?

Dude the terrorism truest form is deception. To live among their enemies without detection. Read the accounts of the people that lived with the hijackers they were totally duped. They have perfected it, it would be the same as your best friend suddenly doing the same as this guy.

In short it is extremely illogical.

I also believe that deep down moderate Muslims agree with what he did, it is part of the deception, it is so illogical that know one could believe it. My proof is why is the majority of Muslim world just sitting idle with all the radical bs that goes on. They should be extremely active in protesting their leaders who support crap such as this, however they do not, or maybe I am just not educated enough, someone tell me otherwise with proof.

!!!

Destroy CAIR!!

Dude:

Ask yourself what is Terrorism in it's truest form.

Don't blame the media for reporting the news, they don't make it they report it. Now back to the article.

Benjamin blames the military while stating that Hassan overlooked an important tenement of Islam. As I remember my service to this country I remember taking an oath to defend this country against all enemies both domestic and foreign. Hassan had to take this same oath of allegiance and he broke that oath and whichever tenement of islam Benjamin is talking about.

I don't know who Benjamin will blame for the many other Muslims that are breaking the same tenement as they murder innocents in their countries. Mr. Farooqi got it right.

Semper Fi and God bless those Americans murdered.

In reply to Dude471844 "What is terrorism in its truest form?"

Anyone shouting God is great while shooting unarmed people for no reason.

There is no excuse; this man was a psychiatrist not a line officer. His whole problem was religion based. God save us all from the Wahabi's

TKWIs - your comments drip with bigotry and ignorance. All? Really?

As soon as you pigeon hole "All" of anyone, you become irrelevant.

Our world is filled with millions of peaceful Muslims. Of course their are fanatics, fanatics exist inside and outside of religion.

The "thing in common" that you speak of is not what you point out. If there is anything "in common" with these groups, it is that there is passion, which, when directed at the wrong thing can produce tragic results.

This is a "human" thing, not a conservative, Muslim, religious, or any other bigoted framework you want to use to make yourself feel smart or better.

In my world "most" conservatives are none of the things you say. But you are too blinded by your own hate to understand - you simply want to rage.

I'm sure the Talliban and Al Quida are praising him. The Army has soldiers trying to get out of deploying all the time of all religions. This guy knew when he signed up what his duties could entail and being a Muslim it was against his supposedly peaceful religious beliefs to start with so he violated them by signing the enlistment contract. He could just as easily have applied for government education grants as a minority and gotten his education instead.

That he snapped is no excuse for murdering soldiers who were not even armed. They aren't allowed to carry around their guns and he massacred them. I say pull the plug on his ventilator and save the country the expense of a Court Marshall because this is not going into any other court system and he's quilty as sin no matter what the excuse. He's already cost the country $12M and all the medical expense for the wounded. That $1M per person who died that their families automatically get paid for death benefits.

Terrorism doesn't have a "true form." It's a tactic. Like air raids. Terrorism uses fear to achieve political ends. Bombings and shootings, while they to create fear, do not achieve substantial political ends, except in rare circumstances. I would call that low-grade terrorism. It kills people, but it's a dead end for the terrorists, if you'll pardon the pun.

High-grade terrorism is ambient fear, usually created by gov't or media, to achieve political ends. It is much more nuanced, and much more effective. It doesn't always require violence and explosions. Like the war in Iraq. Like Saddam's rule over his people. Like Myanmar. There are examples all over.

But, no, I don't think there is a "pure" form of terrorism, and I don't think this was terrorism at all, but a guy with mental problems who snapped. Were it terrorism, the people that knew him would have been able to figure out something was amiss.

How is it that if a white male kills someone, it's murder, it's his fault, and he should be severely punished: but a similar killer from most any other ethnic/gender group does the same thing, and the media and the libs (such as those posting herein) rush to transfer the blame and show the killer as not quite responsible for his actions - usually because of what he had to "endure" from society or the establishment? Hang the SOB!

Well Paul I have no hate Just real world experiences to relate. When Theo VanGhoh was killed where was your outrage and also your community! Of course you have no hate you just wish to suppress FREEDOM OF SPEECH and anything else which might offend you. Then you call for censorship and oppression (ak Salman Rushdie). Once again the misguided minority fundamentalist speak out, but then where is the majority of peaceful Muslims? They are not out protesting the Killers no they defend them because they were not understood and not given their rights!!

BY YOUR OWN WORDS YOU PERJURE YOURSELF.

Dude-471844:

You hit the nail on the head. The only thing I`ve seen terrorism achieve so far is our hemorrhaging of trillions of dollars and the steady erosion of our liberties.

“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”

This one quote should tell us to release all Muslims from military duty, and enforce full reimbursement for all costs in training them. Can't have it both ways. After he's been educated, and promoted, then claim harrassment and religious exemption when he has to produce, so sorry.

Praying to Allah and shouting last Islamist words for a Terrorist when they mass murder is 'key' committing a Terrorist Act.

What do others who murder say to themselves? Pray to G-d? I hate America?

The Terrorists have infiltrated themselves into our daily lives, becoming like us; a false, patriotric American.

This is how they hide their real feelings for their beliefs and agenda. What are the "Cells" doing in this country, the home grown terrorists training in Al-Qaeda camps abroad and other Terrorists Groups?

Our neighbors could be secret Terrorists living among us in the city or suburbs.

Hasan was a full-blown devoted Terrorist. At the Medical Meetings he attended, the doctors were shocked he started to tell them to read the Koran, and spouting anti American rhetoric. The docs knew then he was not just one crazy.

Hasan should have been arrested long ago, before this mass murder. I do believe the Military in Ft. Hood, and the other bases he was stationed at, also Walter Reed Hospital are responsible for not Discharging him or reporting him to Intelligence Agencies.

This will be found out shortly. We don't know the full Terrorist story yet.

Hasan was a definite Islamic Terrorist.

the military should examine the policies that might have caused him to snap?

the policy that needs to be changed is allowing muslim terrorist in the US military.

He didn't snap, he was a terrorist...

why didn't he see this deployment as an opportunity to be able to see his homeland for free just like his education.

People, this man did not act for the Muslim community, he acted for himself. He committed this twisted and cowardly act on his own. If he wants to believe he will go to Heaven for murdering people who would have laid their lives on the line for his sorry butt, let him. I am just as sure there is a spot in Hell for him!

If you join the military expect to have to go when there is a war, your being a muslin does not enter in to that . If you don't want to go to war don't join the military. If you do don't expect to get out of what all other do because of being muslin. What made him think he was better then my sons. I lost one have two more over there now and snapped my ass he was a person who killed in the name of his beliefs. why else would he have yelled what he did before he started taking lives.

I say hang his ass in the center of town and let them see what happens when you kill or boys and girl in the military. He is a terrorist plan and simple, don't make excuses for him.

What I am hearing from all sides is soundly lacking in logic and filled with rhetoric.

Simply: If a soldier has the choice of fulfilling his or her duty as described by his superiors in uniform, or resign from duty, then there is no military. The essence of the military is to act under command as a single unit to serve and protect without hesitation.

Mr. Hasan was not a soldier, but a body filling a position until he saw fit to leave in his own way at his own time. He is not a victim. And the U.S. military needs to put serious effort into background checks and psychological profiling (and the includes religious activity) of all soldiers, ongoing.

This news article and comments thereof is wa-a-a-a-y creepy.

There's no place to voice ANY outrage unless they took an ACTIVE role in preventing it.

levantase

“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”

This one quote should tell us to release all Muslims from military duty, and enforce full reimbursement for all costs in training them. Can't have it both ways. After he's been educated, and promoted, then claim harrassment and religious exemption when he has to produce, so sorry.

You hit the nail on the head. Really, this all comes down to how you interpret the Koran. You either interpret it as a book of peace or a book of violence. I interpret it as a book of violence, and so did Major Hasan. I guess we do have something in common.

So the military should be held accountable for this broken piece of equipment, how about the muslim community being held accountable for it's broken piece of equipment.

Why is anyone suprized? That's what these people do. They are "the greatest" and the rest of us are "infidels to be killed". They are what we're fighting against in the middle east!! Somebody get a clue. Of course the media will protect him. They're a bunch of gutless liberals who live only to be "politically correct".

lol muslims blaming the military for this...didnt some guy in florida kill a bunch of people? who are they blaming? points are this. the muslim community around the world does nothing with their so calle d"extremists" remember waco here? what does this country do when there are religious wackos? it exterminates them. yet around the world these "extremists" are allowed to live. there are no muslim extremists only muslims. Stop being politically correct in saying that its just a few of them. Muslims are the biggest threat to this world..more than global warming and the ussr combined. They are fueled by an belief system that is flawed and suppresses. You cannot say anything about their beloved muhammed without being threatened. But continue to believe what the media tells you. Keep believing that it is a peaceful religion. Keep being politically correct. I am sure all your sheep children and grandchildren will thank you for it.

13 or more dead in this Hasan Terrorist rage.

Hasan lays in a hospital bed transported to another hospital in Texas, putting him in a 'drug induced coma" How lucky that is. He wasn't killed, but now is alive, and doesn't suffer the pain of the soldiers,nor their families.

He gets to sleep, while the others died, and many more wounded. What about the Military Families?. They are not in a coma, they have to live out this nightmare..

That "vibrant" description really stood out at me. I don't believe MSNBC would ever describe a Caucasian/American/Christian group of any kind as "vibrant," frankly.

Hawaii2: Have you ever heard of the Three Kinds Of Ignorance: 1- Pure Negation: The condition of not knowing which condition is natural to the child and the uninformed. 2- Depraved Condtion Of The Mind: When the intellect is impoverished by false opinions or accepts untruths as knowledge. 3- Compound Ignorance: One who knows not and knows not that they know not is afflicted with "compound ignorance". Judging by documented facts, you seem to be guilty, by you very own words of all three types of ignorances. Have you ever see anyone in you life wearing a yamika? Have you ever seen a Sheik wearing his head wrapped up?. Have you ever seen a Num in full habit. Ethnocentrism is being carried too far in this country recently. The diversity is too large and too well entrenched with various groups of decent law abiding people to be trashed by a select few.

“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”

This is one of the most alarming quotes in the article. If this was Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's false interpretation of Koran teaching, then Muslim leaders immediately need to clearly and strongly condemn this statement, and affirm that this is FALSE according to Muslim teaching and the Koran. It is extremely important that Muslim religious leaders clarify what Koran teaching actually is concerning relationships with Jews and Christians...and military actions that put Muslims in opposition with other Muslims...to put to rest the concerns and fears of all Americans, including Muslim Americans. I have never thought that this statement would be true to Islamic teaching, but if it is, then I do not understand why those of the Muslim faith would join the United States military (or citizenship for that matter) with the undeniable knowledge that an alliance with ALL other Americans (including Jews and Christians) is required and honored, and military conflicts may require combat against other Muslims.

“Ultimately it was Brother Nidal’s doing, but the command should be held accountable,” Mr. Benjamin said. “G.I.’s are like any equipment in the Army. When it breaks, those who were in charge of keeping it fit should be held responsible for it.”

Dr. Nidal Malik Hasan is the one person responsible for his cowardly, muderous attack on innocents, of which he deceptively planned and misled authorities of his intentions. Although he promised to serve the United States...he instead murdered our US soldiers in cold blood. Although he took an oath to medically treat and heal those entrusted to his care...he harmed and murdered as many unarmed and vulnerable innocents as he could when they were gathered for medical care. Although he accepted a government funded medical education with a promise to use that education to assist our military for an agreed upon number of years...he instead refused orders, was reportedly incompetent in treating those who returned from a conflict against his "brother Muslims" overseas, and choose to with his own hand, bring the killing of our soldiers to the place they are supposed to feel safe. This Major's actions cannot be excused or explained with mental suffering of PTSD or emotional issues that fall on anyone else...he clearly planned and plotted to kill those he had promised to serve and care for, due to his stated disdain of our military actions against his Muslim brothers. If in looking back, the military could have possibly identified the hatred and betrayal of this Army Major Doctor and prevented HIS ability to kill and harm our soldiers...I am certain those in military leadership will feel great pain and guilt at what they "might have done" to prevent this coward's actions. That in itself is very sad, as it is ONLY this Murderer who decided to kill those he promised to serve. It is very offending that Mr. Benjamin would now try to cast blame on the military. Maybe Mr. Benjamin would like to decide to hold Hasan's Mosque leader responsible for this killing carnage, as by his (Mr. Benjamin) thinking, this would be the person "responsible of keeping him 'spiritually' fit".

I want Mr. Benjamin to tell me what did Mr. Hasan say before he started to kill US soldiers. Tell me Mr. Benjamin.

What did the white man say when he started to shoot a post office as per the example Mr. Benajmin used?

So again, tell me Mr. Benjamin, what did Mr. Hasan say?

This man is not a victim. He is a terrorist who planned and killed US soldiers.

Orbust:

Betcha he is tied to a Terrorist group like you said. This story will widen, others will be linked to this plot. He was following orders from someone, and it wasn't the Army.

Can one imagine The Intelligence Agencies working on this one, finding the rest of the old Koran purists who say they are a religion of peace and no violence. Sounds kind of "manic" to me.

I don't want their peaceful teachings, and violent, barbaric life of murdering for Allah.

How many more have infiltrated in our US Military, and given our enemy Top Secret Sensitive Information to other Middle Eastern Countries with our fight against Islamic and Muslim Terrorists.?

I don't think I need to read any of the other comments here. This is the best, most eloquent and sensible post I could hope to read on this subject. I commend you.

I appreciate our Muslim soldiers who serve and protect our country but I too, would like "official" clarification on these matters from Muslim leaders in our American mosques.

I especially want to know where Dr. Hasan got his radical ideas from because he was born in the same state I was born in (assuming I read correctly last night and he was born in VA), raised in the same area I was and one of his mosques isn't that far from where I live. I've always given my Muslim neighbors a benefit of a doubt and kept an open heart and mind toward them. I've gone to school with Muslims. Dr. Hasan could very well have been one of my friends in high school (he wasn't, but I'm just saying his background is certainly similar). I would like to know where and how in the USA a Muslim with an American upbringing could get it into his head that it would be right and well for him to shoot innocent fellow citizens called to the same duty he himself VOLUNTEERED for.

It boggles the mind. I couldn't be more shocked than if I had seen one of my dear, kind, gentle friends whose parents came from Iran or Iraq or Jordan guilty of this horror.

You people are reading into it way to much. This guy is a cold blooded killer.

What kind of F-cked up religion would say: you're not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell." Why do they bother coming to our country is they believe this crap, all Muslims should be deported if this is how they feel about other religions they are the worst two faced people on earth where can befriend someone and cut their throat while they sleep... After reading that statement about how they are not to have alliances with Jews or Christians that just made me hate Muslims and I'm an atheist, it just proves how two faced they truly are .....

Let me explain the difference.  There have been "so-called" Christians perform terrible acts of violence just the same as Muslim's.  But the difference is a true born again Chriatian would NOT perform such acts.  Even if the individual or the media calls the person a Christian doesn't mean he is one.  But, a Muslim, is a Muslim, peaceloving or violent.

Muslims = Terrorists

Get them out of America!!!!

richie,

If you hate me more now because I am a Muslima, then that shows you the power of the media and the power of persuasion based on rantings from a public forum where the majority of posters are ignorant and full of hatred, spewing their "idiotic notions about Islam" to people like you and in return, thus, basing your increased hatred on HERESAY.

I suggest that you STUDY what Islam really is and dismiss the "notion" that this "shooter" (NOT TERRORIST), did what he did based on his religion. I am sick of my religion going on trial every time a 'CRIME' is committed by one who shares his/her religion with me. HE WAS ONE SICKO AND THAT IS THAT.

R. Ford:

I'm not ignorant. You are. I have seen and been with all religions, not just Christianity. They do not want to wipe the Westernized world off the map or massacre thousands of people in violent ways. Suicide bombings, using kids as human shields for protection from their own demise, nor have I seen all the groups mentioned who adore Allah and practice his extreme teachings..

Please look at your spellings of descriptions who wear "hats" for religious purposes. They are all incorrect.

Hawaii2, nothing new here,... and the rest of you narrow minded self righteous bigots,.... as a German, French, native American I am ashamed of you.......When a Christian radical fundlmentalist attacks a Californian synagog and murders women and children or doctors and nurses at an abortion clinic you call it justifiable or an isolated incident, but when it is a muslim (of which I am not) you call it an act of terror.... Murder is always an act of terror

While I grieve for those victims and their families at Fort Hood and think it was a horrific act on the part of Hasan, I am rational enough to understand the dilima shooter Hasan found himself in, and rational enough to realize Mr. Hasan went to extraordninary lengths to avoid being put in the position he was, to the extent of gettig an attorney to help him get out of the army, .........and I therefore feel the military was partly to blame for what happened...........More rational thinking on the part of the military may have negated this horrifc act. Although I am opposed to exclusion of so-called conscience objectors, and believe every able-bodied American should participate in defending America and liberty, I can understand that sometimes one can serve honorably some place other than the actual theater of battle......We need to rethink military polices to hopefully prevent someone from being put in the position of having to choose between faith, conscience and country, word is Hasan was a good doctor at Walter Reed, should have left him there, don't you think

stupid

Oh, the amount of paranoia and fear here is astounding. Get some guts and climb out of your basement, it is beautiful outside in the sun.

Racist bigots are racist bigots no matter which side they are on.

Hawaii, the Christians tried to do exactly that during the crusades.

Ellis Baumgarner, concerning your comments...

If a person does not want to fulfill the undeniable obligations of military service...including any possible combat or overseas service orders, why would they VOLUNTEER and ACCEPT a government funded medical education that comes with the promise to use that knowledge in service orders issued by superiors for a specified number of years?

Concerning your comment,"word is Hasan was a good doctor at Walter Reed, should have left him there, don't you think" Actually, that statement is not necessarily accurate. Here is a quote from an article in the Washington Post today...

Since the shooting, officials have been looking for warning signs in Hasan's career that could have tipped them off to his potential to carry out the attack. Some of his Walter Reed colleagues said patients complained that Hasan seemed uncomfortable talking about soldiers' emotional needs and was himself a loner. He was also not very productive but was gentle in nature and showed no signs of potential for violence, they said.

A former Walter Reed social worker, Joe Wilson, said problems in the mental-health department were usually not discussed openly. "Of course you miss the red flags, you can't talk openly about mental health," Wilson said. "You complain about it to each other, but not to anyone else." The opinion was shared by another mental-health worker who asked not to be named.

Switching a soldier who is unhappy with his psychiatrist to another doctor can backfire and delay the medical board process that determines whether the soldier remains in the service. "It's a complete disincentive to complain" about any particular health-care provider, Wilson said.

Ellis:

You are completely wrong on all subjects, all subjects.

Major Hasan was reprimanded and questioned about his practices of medicine/and or Psychiatry at Walter Reed Hospital. Please do the reading.

At a Physicians Conference he was questioned re: his Islam beliefs for the speech he gave and order the docs to read the Koran.

Yes, we do have other mass killings in America, but they are not propaganda filled with wiping The Westernized World off the map with such violence.

The other killings were done by one or 2 persons, individuals. They had a gripe, just like in Florida yesterday.

You'll NEVER convince me that I am the bigot. You don't know who you are addressing here; my experiences and life's racial bigotry. I have been needlessly judged by other peoples..

You'll never know.

Hawaii 2........Allah.. is the Arabic word for God, do you not believe in 'GOD' ?....Or just your perception ??

Ellis:

This is not a coffee klatch.

This is an article discussion, about The NYT reporting Major Hasan, the Islamist who massacred his own Military people.

Ellis, you forgot that Allah is the same God that Jews and Christians worship.

And once again the conservatives collapse every comment they disagree with instead of ones that are offensive. I guess they are just to scared to have the argument against them out there.

The Muslims cannot peacefully co-exist with anyone but Muslims for any length of time.

If the Muslims do not want to serve in the military and go by our rules let them go back to their countries and put up with a life over there!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quit using us for their material gain and then not support us. Yes Muslim is terriorism any way they want to paint it. They are taking us over. They need to stop forcing their beliefs on us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our country was built on Christianity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seems like Major Nidal Malik Hasan was the one who decided to judge and "cast stones"...don't you think? Discussing what his motivation was is an attempt to understand his intent and motive...a part of our system of justice. God is a God of Justice, Truth, and Love. There is no spiritual crime in seeking Justice.

Hasan was not mentally stressed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He knew what he was doing and did it intentionaly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now he is getting what he set out to get!!!!!!!!!!!!! Attention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It makes me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Military should“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”

The Military should indeed discharge all muslims with this soort of thinking, I would not be the least bit surprised to see this same type of act done on an actual battle field.

EX. A Muslim drone operator that decides to target our own troops at a crucial invasion operation.

EX. A Muslim pilot goes mental and drops his ordinance on one of our air craft carriers

This list goes on, Its time this country drops the political correctness and stands up for itself. Whats been goin on the last 10 years is equal to a high school freshman getting his butt kicked and teased but yet he does nothing because he wants to be liked.

Lame-stream media is pathetic on this story as well. The leader of Iran was one of the original 5 plotters in the Hostage crisis in the 70's and yet we allow this guy into our country to speak to our college kids!!!!

Hawaii2.......We are all bigots in reality....relax.....it is animal nature to be prejudice toward, or apprehensive of non-like, One Pride of lions will attack another. Humans however, are supposed to be intellegent enough to show compassion toward those who are unlike, we are supposed to understand that all are gods creatures and are entitled to exist and enjoy the fruits of peace and happiness......Maybe one day we will realize we are all just part of one big family...and maybe then, there will truely be 'peace on earth, goodwill toward man'....I pray

While I grieve for those victims and their families at Fort Hood and think it was a horrific act on the part of Hasan, I am rational enough to understand the dilima shooter Hasan found himself in, and rational enough to realize Mr. Hasan went to extraordninary lengths to avoid being put in the position he was, to the extent of gettig an attorney to help him get out of the army, .........and I therefore feel the military was partly to blame for what happened...........More rational thinking on the part of the military may have negated this horrifc act.

Wow this stement makes me sad I have to breathe the same air as you. Your wrong on every level, Cry me a river, the JOINED the military, he re-enlisted!!! of coarse he is going to war. The only more rational thinking the military should have done would have been to not allow this radical nutjob enlistment in the first place.

Art, concerning your comments,...

Seems like Major Nidal Malik Hasan was the one who decided to judge and "cast stones"...don't you think? Discussing what his reasoning behind these horrific murders was is a valid attempt to understand his intent and motive...a part of our system of justice. God is a God of Justice, Truth, and Love. There is no spiritual crime in seeking Justice. And, we are called to learn from situations of suffering so as to try to gain understanding that will help prevent similar situations of suffering. Understanding intent is a part of that, as we all grieve for those suffering from this monstrous act, and try to find some hope in all the sadness.

I think those Muslims make some very good points. Had it been a non-Muslim who did it, it would have been chalked up to "going postal". Still, they can't blame non-Muslims for being wary of this particular Muslim, considering the route he took and crying out Alla Akbah (or whatever)....

He chose to take advantage of the military paying for his medical education, with the understanding that he serve in the military. When he became disenchanted, and was expected to go to Iraq as all/any of the military eventually are, he wanted out. NO ONE wants to be deployed over there. The others going, that he killed and wounded, did NOT receive an education or commission.

Still, we should NOT blame all Muslims for this. Yet....Muslims should understand why we are wary....

StsSpecial:

Allah is not the same God Christians and Jews worship. There are so many differences.

Thanks for the comments.

This is plan and simple terrorism. Muslims are so two faced they should never be trusted. Look at the politics in Afghan Iraq and Iran. Elections that are rigged and dishonest. The muslim communities tell us one thing and do another. They are not to be trusted. They are not friends they are our enemy. And so is the christians that go to these countries and other countries trying to convert everybody into christianity. Muslims don't do that they just cut your head off. Christians need to learn they need to keep their religion to themselves and stop causing trouble in other countries by passing out bibles. They are the one's that stirred the middle east terrorist up.

Hawii, yes it is. They both worship the God of Abraham, both believe in Genesis and most of Exodus. It is the same God.

Bonnie, try again. It has been proven over and over and over that our country was/is not based on Christianity. Our constitution is based upon the Iriquois constitution, not the 10 commandments. This is an agnostic/athiestic country and always will be.

KJR......there was no war with muslim nations when Hasan volunteered, if there had been,maybe his decision to join may have been different and history would have been different with 13 more people still still alive today. Who knows?.........When I said Hasan was a good doctor I was repeating the news source, I do not know myself, but I do know, if we allow this heinous act to provoke us into persecuting a race or religion out of vengeous, we will be no better or more righteous than Mr. Hasan. We have already fought one war that need not had to be fought, a war that cost 5000 more American lives and more than 100,000 Iraqi lives.......War is a deadly endeavor, and it is time for more rational thinking that is not fueled by hatred.......Don't you think ?

Major Hasan is not an honorable man. A Mr. Benjamin says the Army should have let him out and not required him to fulfill his duty. The Major took an oath to protect this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Just because he does not like that he was being deployed should allow him to ignore his responsibility? Shame on him for not being honorable to his military oath and to the so-called "peaceful" religion of Islam.

special k- your continuous liberal atheist rants get tiresome...

stspecialk

Hawaii, the Christians tried to do exactly that during the crusades.

Do you mean the Crusades of 1,000 years ago? the same Crusades where the Christians tried to recapture their Holy Land from the..... wait for it.....

The Muslims???

Surely the people responding to this posting are not implying that all Muslims are the same? Or that Muslims beliefs are any less ardent than those of Christians or Jews?

Human beings are good by nature- all human beings. Are there those that are filled with hate or misguidance? Yes. And they too come in all form. This man's mind snapped for reasons no one will ever truly know.

This was a tragedy that may or may not have been avoidable and nothing more.

This man could have chosen to be a "consciencious objector." The conflict stemming from his muslim beliefs contrasted with what he was being asked to do would have been in the spot light. I cannot imagine he, as highly educated military man, would not have realized this possibility. I do not believe he "snapped," he chose a course of action with deliberation stemming from the "extremist" interpretation of the Koran or he was simply a terrorist. Not sure what the difference is though.

stspecialk,

Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians.

Jesus said in John 8:24, "Unless you believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins"

I AM is the name of God. Jesus stated that he was deity. Jesus forgave sins, only God can forgive sins.

Muslims do not accept Jesus as God, but merely a prophet. A man. A created being. Muslims place Muhammad, a man, as God's prophet above Jesus.

Do not dishonor Christianity by saying Muslims or anyone else's version of God is the same God as the God of Christians.

If white Christian blew away 13 people in a Muslim community, the media and the president would be all over him like flies on s..t. This is terrorism of the worst kind as it happens on our soil. Say it over-TERRORISM. Fu.k the political police. I hope this guy stays in a coma for life, because he's not worthy of a trial. Most of the weak media (non fox news) will make this guy as the victim because he had problems. Yea, he had problems alright. He did it for his faith, which, I'm sorry, is wrong. He deserved one more bullet-four wasn't enough.

I think we all need to boycott MSNBC because as you can see they are a terror supporting business with inflammatory remarks from islamic supporters of terrorism. We didn't force him to say those things while he pulled the trigger, and we never told him to join the military... he was a volunteer. This was a simple terrorist act and nothing more. Why is it that when a suicide bomber kills 12 in Iraq its terror, but if it occurs here, its nothing more than a muslim man who snapped? It is a TERRORIST act and nothing more.

mdmiriam

The comment came from one of your Muslim mouths read the article, see I don't see you speaking to your fellow Muslims about how your community needs to address these problems of these radical Muslims.

The guy was crazy and apparently had been for some time - but, until he committed a crime you could not do anything thanks to the ACLU - he had more rights than the rest of the people. You cannot commit anyone until they do something wrong - just mouthing off does not get you committed unless you threaten to kill Obama.

We are being attacked by the enemy within. The Muslims are sneaking into every facet of our country. And our wonderful fed govt is supporting them. Why are we allowing this?! Why were they even allowed to live among us?! And the fed govt has given them MORE rights than us.

Kamal is quoted as saying, "We’re better than this."

Really? It does not show.

Benjamin wants to blame it on the military.

Unbridled arrogance on both of their parts.

Perhaps this quote from King Obama's book, Audacity of Hope, can explain why he is doing nothing -

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

This guy is one scary leader and the sooner he is voted out along with all his cronnies, the better off this country will be.

If Muslims can't fight other Muslims then they should not be in our military. Our most outspoken and aggressive enemies are Muslims. If you can't do the job, don't take it. Let's imagine we are attacked by Muslims in any theatre, past, present or future. Now imagine that 30% of America's defending force is Muslim and they can not bring themselves to engage the enemy. So now they turn on their fellow soldiers like this parasite did.

Like the Nation of Islam, it's not possible for the members of this religion to remain loyal to America. “We do have the right to retaliate,” he said. Retaliate against what? Those who do not share your ideologies? This is the Nation of the United States of America. There is no excuse for putting our ideological opposites at the backs of those who are defending our traditional values. If you don't understand the concept of Americanism, go to a country that supports your beliefs. America stands for freedom. The nation of Islam apparently stands for believe as I do or you will be shot.

Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians. For someone who does not know God, who doesn't have Him in your heart, what makes you believe you know who He is?

Ellis, there were Muslim attacks on the US before 9/11 or have you forgotten. If this was going to be a "deal breaker" for Hasan, he should never have enlisted, period. You have to be ready for all possibilities, and the possibility of a soldier going to the Middle East was a possibility before 9/11. The fact that this man chose to kill his fellow soldiers rather than meet his obligation, go to jail, or simply go AWOL speaks volumes. This bloodbath was planned, Hasan's actions before the incident reflect this. Muslims should be allowed to enlist, they've fought shoulder to shoulder with their fellow soldiers and I am forever thankful for ALL our servicemen and women for their service and their sacrifice. BUT the politically correct bs that keeps us from addressing a problem before its too late is unconscionable and deadly.

Ellis Baumgarner, in answer to your comment to me...

I do not think that we have been told if Major Hasan had any opportunity to leave the military since the 2001 world trade center attacks...it would seem he would not have been forced to continue to enter and complete medical school and residency...which do seem to have been attended during the years since 2001. But I am certain that a military disciplinary sentence or a dishonorable discharge for refusal to follow orders, or even a mental patient admission for treatment would have been possible... however if this person was using his military position to further an extremist religious cause of radical Muslim thinking, he was right where he wanted to be to inflict harm and murder on American soldiers. By pursuing the facts and truth in establishing the motive of this murderer and how this tragedy happened, we can possibly prevent future events like this from being repeated. That has nothing to do with "thinking that is fueled by hatred", or "allowing this heinous act to provoke us into persecuting a race or religion out of vengeous",as you state. Radical Muslims do exist, just as radical ideologies in other religions and political forms also exist. An officer or service member in our armed forces who supports radical Islam ideologies is a danger to our soldiers. That is a fact. The truth of a situation is always the best way to find answers and solutions...if you do not identify what the problem is/was, you aren't going to solve it. Clearly, to allow this man's actions to do even more destruction in the way of bringing division and distrust among respectful, peaceful Americans due to false fears and stereotypes would be tragic, and if that is what you are saying, I support that concern. Below are some quotes from some who knew Dr. Hasan, printed in a recent associated press article, that may shed some light on this suspect and his mindset. However, at this time, I admit that my thoughts and concern are with all the victims...those murdered, wounded, the children who lost a parent, the parents who have lost a child...all of us who lost so much due to this coward's actions. They are in my prayers, as well as all the heroes among the fallen.

"I told him (Major Hasan), ‘There's something wrong with you,'" Osman Danquah, co-founder of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, told The Associated Press on Saturday. "I didn't get the feeling he was talking for himself... something just didn't seem right."Danquah assumed the military's chain of command knew about Hasan's doubts, which had been known for more than a year to classmates in a graduate military medical program. His fellow students complained to the faculty about Hasan's "anti-American propaganda," but said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim student kept officers from filing a formal written complaint.

"The system is not doing what it's supposed to do," said Dr. Val Finnell, who studied with Hasan from 2007-2008 in the master's program in public health at the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences. "He at least should have been confronted about these beliefs, told to cease and desist, and to shape up or ship out."

Finnell said he did just that (report Hasan's disturbing rhetoric) during a year of study in which Hasan made a presentation "that justified suicide bombing" and spewed "anti-American propaganda" as he argued the war on terror was "a war against Islam." Finnell said he and at least one other student complained about Hasan, surprised that someone with "this type of vile ideology" would be allowed to wear an officer's uniform.

But Finnell said no one filed a formal, written complaint about Hasan's comments out of fear of appearing discriminatory.

"In retrospect, I'm not surprised he did it," Finnell said. "I had real questions about what his priorities were, what his beliefs were."

If Muslims can't fight other Muslims then they should not be in our military. Our most outspoken and aggressive enemies are Muslims. If you can't do the job, don't take it. Let's imagine we are attacked by Muslims in any theatre, past, present or future. Now imagine that 30% of America's defending force is Muslim and they can not bring themselves to engage the enemy. So now they turn on their fellow soldiers like this parasite did.

Like the Nation of Islam, it's not possible for the members of this religion to remain loyal to America. “We do have the right to retaliate,” he said. Retaliate against what? Those who do not share your ideologies? This is the Nation of the United States of America. There is no excuse for putting our ideological opposites at the backs of those who are defending our traditional values. If you don't understand the concept of Americanism, go to a country that supports your beliefs. America stands for freedom. The nation of Islam apparently stands for believe as I do or you will be shot.

?????

Sorry about the double post. Computer glitch.

All of those who have ever enlisted or been drafted should have had the same opportunity to choose which of America's enemies they would fight don't you think? Hitler you say? He hasn't done anything to me. I think I'll just sit this one out.

Why is it that we always have to apologize to the Muslims everytime one of them commits a heinous act against innocent people?

bluecollarblogger........It serves no purpose to apply hypothetical scerarios, we know the reality of our military's make-up, and there are very few muslims...... But yes, this horrific incident should give the military pause in putting known muslims in a position where they could compromise our military's efforts. It is better safe, than sorry. Too bad the Army didn't adopt this policy before ordering Hasan to deploy. Would it have made a difference ?...Only Hasan knows.

Ellis Baumgarner

If you don't apply hypothetical scenarios how do you protect against future possibilities?

Ellis says,..."But yes, this horrific incident should give the military pause in putting known muslims in a position where they could compromise our military's efforts. It is better safe, than sorry. Too bad the Army didn't adopt this policy before ordering Hasan to deploy."

Hasan committed his murderous carnage here on U.S. soil. He could have gone AWOL. Why do you continue to blame the military orders for Hasan's deployment, as the cause of this deceptively planned act of murder and harm perpetrated against those who were unarmed and lined up to receive medical care. This monster did not turn the gun on his superior that ordered his deployment. He did not turn the gun on himself. He attempted to kill as many soldiers as possible, who had and would serve overseas in a war he decided was against his radical religious beliefs. HIS GOAL WAS TO KILL AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OF THOSE WHO HE SAW AS THE ENEMY...AND THE SOLDIER"S READINESS CENTER WITH HUNDREDS OF SERVICEMEMBERS LINED UP FOR MEDICAL CARE WAS THE PERFECT SETTING FOR HIS DISPICABLE ACT OF MASS MURDER. Ponder this quote, "Some 300 soldiers were lined up to get shots and eye-testing when the shots rang out. Cone said one soldier who had been shot told him, 'I made the mistake of moving and I was shot again.' " This major was on a mission of betrayal...that is pretty clear.

Christians and Jews do believe in the same creator/God, they do believe in other things after that time, but the God did not change.

So now any Muslim or other terrorist who kills someone, can claim insanity? This man made a choice to join the service and knew that he might have to go overseas. If I had done this, I would have been charged with premeditated murder and the only reason he being sheltered by the press and the police is because he's Muslim as is the President

Apparently, the writer, Michael Moss, and his NYT editor, forgot to include the quotes that showed the Muslim Community was outraged, for not one sentence reflected any genuine, identifiable community outrage against the mass murdering terrorist, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan. One person, a pediatrician and self identified “mosque leader,” was quoted professing to speak for the Muslim community, said they condemned the cowardly attack. This does not comport with the headline. What a surprise that the formerly esteemed newspaper hard pedals the headline in a desperate attempt to get someone to read something they print and coasts through the text applying political correctness and liberal whitewashing of a despicable crime committed against our soldiers, not only on American soil, but literally in the heart of Texas. I appreciate “Nothing New Here’s” catchphrase “lame stream media” tremendously, and it will now be part of my vocabulary.

Further, I don’t know Mr. Benjamin’s background, but his quote in the article that “When a white guy shoots up a post office, they call that going postal, but when a Muslim does it, they call it jihad” is absurd and shows he does not understand American culture (“going postal”), or criminal, sociopathic personalities that are inborn (mental illness) or created by their upbringing (bad parents), or crimes (domestic terrorism as defined by The Patriot Act §802) encouraged and supported by religious beliefs (Islam). Mr. Benjamin seeks to blame the military and society for the actions of an Islamic terrorist whose religion and culture support murder as an appropriate method to handle any problem with someone who is not a Muslim. Clearly, this is the act of a disturbed person, a mentally and morally weak man who used his religious culture to justify to himself that he should randomly kill innocent people because he did not want to do his duty to serve the United States and his fellow soldiers in Afghanistan. This man is a coward. He is just a psychiatrist, not a brave medic who would risk his life to save injured soldiers in the field. He was only worried for himself and his deteriorating state of mind at having to treat soldiers mentally traumatized overseas in the safety of a medical facility rather then at home in the comfort of the air conditioned, clean, paved road USA.

Hasan is pathetic, and it does not matter whether the cause of his behavior is any of the valid reasons listed above. His cowardice and inability to cope with his fears, challenges and cultural stress appropriately is not the fault of the US military. Hasan is clearly not a good American and not a good soldier. And forget political correctness, but if it is correct that Muslims are “not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others…” (according to Mr. Reasoner), then Muslims have no business in the US military. If this is the case, then the US military should not accept Muslims into service if that is one of the key doctrines that guide Muslim behavior. How hard is that to figure out and apply? There is no acceptable or logical compromise to be reached. There is no reason for the US Military to compromise on this point. The same is true for conscientious objectors and pacifists. They do not belong in the military. In fact, how can people be proper Muslims and function as citizens of the United States without breaching that no association doctrine?

Another Muslim terrorist who will get his 71 virgins? This is a violent religion that encourages thousands of suicide bombers killing and maiming innocent women and children is the name of a dead man that they worship. This is just plain wrong, and they will suffer eternally.

Ellis Baumgarner, I would like to also mention...It is also a fact that once deployed to a combat situation, our soldiers would all be armed with weapons...making a mass shooting murder such as this much less possible for this Major Doctor to carry out. I believe it was no mistake that this act was planned and executed at Fort Hood's Soldier's Readiness Center where hundreds of unarmed service members were lined up like sitting ducks. Deployment orders only solidified his time frame for executing his despicable plan. Seriously, think about this. Regardless of anyone's views of the Iraq War, we cannot allow anyone to make excuses for any person who would deceive, infiltrate and plot the mass murder of our soldiers.

It is no more violent of a religion than christianity.

Sincere and knowledgeable followers of Islam denounce these kinds of acts as immoral and criminal, and it is not the military's fault that he did these stupid actions.

If he had a conflict of conscience about being deployed in Muslim lands, then he should have never joined the military in the first place. Simple. Islam teaches to help your country when they are right by standing with them, and help your country when it is wrong be telling them they are wrong. These are all found in the stories of Noah, Abraham, etc.

This article highlights a major problem in Muslim communities and that is lack of knowledge about their religion. The comments by Victor Benjamin and Mr. Reasoner are wrong. Prophet Muhammad did make alliances with Jews, Christians, and other pagan groups.

The last comment about having the right to respond, that verse does not apply to individuals taking matters into their own hands, but applies to victims going through a court of law and to gov'ts retaliating against foreign aggression.

These Muslims need to learn comprehensive knowlegde about their belief system before they open their mouths about what Islam says and doesn't say. Certainly, before they do anything for the sake of Islam.

Many people get harassed or mocked in different ways. But doing what this piece of sh!t did is betrayal and cowardice.

I hope he burns in hell... He wore his disgusting Muslim garb on base, what did he expect...praise?

Look at a world map at the muslim nations, then read world news from that last year of nations that border the muslim world, Christians, Hindus, Buddhist, Jewish, seculars blown up, heads chopped off, etc.

Long Beach, I agree w/ one word in your post, "disgusting" except that I would use it to describe the type of human being you are.

Destroy CAIR!!

Nope:).

Word is that Hasan was NOT a good doctor at Walter Reed. There have been many reports filed against him for his practices, and teachings to others.

Perhaps if America was not filled with so many hateful bigots people wouldn't feel the need to attack you.

If he i s tied to a terrorist group, the MSM will not report it. We'll have to find out on FOX news, NBC and the propaganda machine will simply sweep it under the rug, because it might make their beloved administration look bad.

Hawaii2 Even when any Muslim President do speak against the terrorism it is never reported by the US media. Pakistani President Musaraf lashes out the terrorist when they blew up a Church filled with people in Pakistan was never shown in US unless you watch PBS Frontline or go to other countries news websites. Bush and Cheney's goal was to make all Muslims look like that they are anti Americans. It is not in the Koran for Muslim women are required to wear a burkha (Vail). There are lots of things that are made up by radical Muslims that are not in the Koran. There are things in all the holy books that we know that it is for the time it was written and it is not valid now. Even if 100% Muslims turns radical and start blowing up people Quran will still stand on its own merits because anyone kills innocent people are not the member of any religion even if they claim to be the member of that religion. Religion is to love and respect all living things.

Send them all back, they're nothing but trouble. Also, send all the illegal Mexicans to Afghanistan - they can take over the fighting and the opium.

I think it is a Great Insult to the families of the soldiers that were killed, by telling us how troubled this wacko was. Who cares he kiled soldiers on a military base so let the UCMJ rule on his fate. No more pity for the wacko!

You got that right!

theelvis:

It's easy to recruit---it's like catching a cold. Once someone sneezes, everyone catches the cold and sneezes. "It's the thing to do" now, and really stand out in a crowd. The Terrorists get great Notoriety out of being a sick famous personality.

The recent Terrorists are big time misfits in real life. They need a cause. The others are true believers of the Old Koran teachings. Many are Caucasian Americans.

Being Vulnerable, they are easy targets to recruit. They want to die anyway. It's called Self-Destruction.

WTG Bernie,,, bigotry alway's shows thru.

This guy did NOT snap. He did his regular routine- coffee and hashbrowns dressed in his sheet.

Then he put on his uniform- gave away the small amount of things he had as he appeared to be very frugal in everything except the price of his guns- put on his uniform- got his guns -and went to a place where the targets would be easy so he could "earn" his 72 virgins or raisins. Now we see that besides being an incompetent psychiatrist he couldn't even get himself killed. Now we'll have to put up with him crying about being killed by infidels because he's a muslim.

Bernie:

You have just made the biggest fool of yourself with your comment. Please reread your incomprehensive writing.

No, we are not bigots. I do respect and love the Hispanics, and all other races and religions.

It is the Islamic Terrorists that I detest who kill thousands of Westernized people here and about the world. They do not value life, nor do they value themselves. They are like hungry "tigers" waiting for the right time to destroy the world..

I am not a bigot. My best friends in the world are from Africa and I have sponsored a number of their kin to attend school here. I worked with Asian refugees as a volunteer for 8 years, but these Muslims are different. Long before 9/11 when they started moving in in droves (thank you Microsoft), I told my kids there would be trouble with them sooner than later. When I walk by a normal black, asian or caucasian they will at least look you in the eye and most manage a smile if I smile at them. Not these guys. They look at me, if at all, with hate like they would like to spit on me.

The Trojan Horse is within the gates and has infiltrated every facet of our lives--even our very military. We must realize the threat. Stop being PC and worrying about being called a bigot and defend ourselves and our homeland by isolating Muslims--at very least there should be none allowed in our military or in our jail chaplains (they recruit the most evil and hardened criminals--why do they want them? Think about it. Who will make dangerous soldiers of Islam?)

It doesn't make any sense for him to suddenly realize that he would have to go overseas and be seen to be working "against" other Muslims and "for" the U.S. What did he think might happen when he signed up? Especially if you sign up for the Army to make you a doctor, you're probably going to owe the Army a lot of years of service in payback, and anything could happen during that length of time. The Middle East is not known for its stability so yeah, something could happen and you could be sent over there, even if nothing is happening when you originally sign up. Duh. If he didn't like the idea, he should never have signed up to begin with.

Lets see what Moslem Extremists and LEFT WING Extremists have in common:

1-no connection with reality

2. believing that they alone know what's best for everyone.

3. enforcing thier will by attemting to destroy everything everone ELSE stands for.

any questions? i Thought not. pretty obvious to all thinking people everywhere.

People can call me what ever they please but one thing for sure I don't walk through life with blinders on, anyone that can support a religion that singles out other religions like theirs do and they can accept that then why the hell are they here in our country, pack up your sh_t and get on a plane, right now I don't give a sh_t what these Muslims say, they are evil and should be sent to hell ....

tell us what it means to not take arms with an unbeliever?

Hi,

Why don't we get a group of people and then go into muslim countries and shoot and kill their people while yelling "Jesus is Great". How would they like that?

Oh, on second thought we couldn't get into their countries because they are not free, they are brainwashed slaves of their religious muslim leaders and are very fanatical about their religion. So if we were to go there we wouldn't get in because it is not allowed by their leaders, whether it be political, religious or dictator.

Something to think about.

They were thought to kill since they were babies. So it must be right.

Any muslim murderer want to debate that fact.

Exactly....these bastards are all Jihadists in waiting. This is just a litmus to what will happen to Americans when it's time for the end game. These bastards are animals. They are not your friends. Everything these raghead SOBs do is calculated. Keep your friends close, and all these bastards closer. To hell with your political correctness. Always be aware of your surroundings. Have a nice day!

troy,

just be glad you are not one of my patients, even though I upheld the oath to save your sorry life if it were ever in jeopardy.

I wonder what religion the doctor is, who treated Hasan.

It might be his religious enemy.

The difference between going postal and what Hasan did is that going postal is not a religious act. Muslims don’t have to worry that they might go to hell because they are in the military fighting against Muslims because they are going to Hell anyway.

Hawaii 2....(" I do respect and love Hispanics, and all other races and religions" )???.....

You are as phony as a three dollar bill friend, I am white, German, French and Native Indian but cannot claim to love all whites, Germans, French or Native Indians,... in fact, I have met more people of whatever race I do not like, than do like.........And as far as loving all religions, give us a break, most all religions except Buddhist persecute and detest other religions....They all preach, " love thy neighbor, cast no stone in anger ", unless thy neighbor does not believe like, or agree with thee. ...Albert Einstein had it right when he said, " If there is an evil upon this earth, it is religion, a political establishment which is beholden to a particular theology while rejecting all others venomously....Lesson......Do not preach love while casting stones in anger

Fear and bigotry

push me,

Here's a bit of education for you ignorants: Get facts straight. Post verses in their entirety and understand the reason for the revelation of the verse in question before you interject with your own miskewed interpretation.

The Holy Quran--2:191
"And slay them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence THEY DROVE YOU OUT, for PERSECUTION IS MORE SEVERE THAN SLAUGHTER, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque UNLESS they fight with you in it, BUT IF THEY DO FIGHT YOU, then slay them; such is their just reward."
______________________—
Now all the bigots are not going to learn because they are destined to stay biased and hateful, but for those who genuinely want to learn, keep in mind that this verse as well as every verse in the Quran was revealed concerning the events that were taking place around that period of time. The above verse was meant to guide those who were in battle at Hudaiybia in the 6th year of the Hijra.

The Muslims were by this time a strong and influential community. Many of them were exiled and driven from their homes in Mecca where the Pagans had established an intolerant autocracy, PERSECUTING Muslims, preventing them from GOING BACK TO THEIR HOMES, visiting their relatives left behind and even preventing them from performing the pilgrimage to Mecca. THIS WAS INTOLERANCE AND PERSECUTION to the ultimate degree.

Again, it is stressed that fighting is only for defending and not aggression. God says to fight persecution and oppression, NOT TO EVER ATTACK, but to DEFEND when you are attacked or PERSECUTED.

“And one who attacks you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you” (Surah 2:194)
This is basically echoing the Bible's EYE FOR AN EYE, TOOTH FOR A TOOTH. Do not transgress the limits. The PUNISHMENT HAS TO FIT THE CRIME, not exceed.

All killing, fighting, war and even administration of law and order involve some type of violence. During the "Wild Wild West" didn't the United States earn a reputation for violence?

During the two World Wars - the most violent and the worst killings in human history - didn't the West in general and Europe in particular earn a reputation for violence either?

Didn't the extermination and displacement of the Native Indian people in the United States make the country barbaric or uncivilized?

The European colonization that ravaged, exploited and dehumanized various parts of Asia and Africa, including the Muslim world, did not make Europe any less civilized, did it?

The Spanish Inquisition and the Crusade (one of the bloodiest times in history) did not make Christianity violent and barbaric, did it?

Even the organized torching of Muslims in India by a Hindu mob does not make Hinduism a burning example of violence and barbarism.'

Yet, these days there are people who would like to identify Islam and the Prophet Muhammad as violent or symbol of violence. WHY IS THAT????

Leaders of the vibrant Muslim community here expressed outrage on Friday at the shooting rampage being laid to one of their members, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who had become a regular attendee of prayers at the local mosque.

Sounds like the muslims don't like the fact that it was reported that a muslim committed the murder of 13 people. As with all good muslims, they shift the blame at the victims. The as all good liberal love all be alls would have, your a biggot or racist for pointing out the flaws in a garbage religion. I guess the bottom line in this mass murder is that it's the white military's fault. Or just the white race in general. Being born white is in and of itself a form of oppression and racism. In order to get rid of racism, you must get rid of whites as no other race, regardless of what crimes they commit against white, are not racist.

Also I didn't know it was racism speaking bad about a muslim. Isn't muslim / islam a religion and not a race?

I could believe muslims were upset at crimes and forms of terrorism if they would police their own. But they don't. Deep down muslims are glad other people of different religions are being killed in the name of islam. Islam seems to think that it's the only religuion that has the RIGHT to exist and all other religion are there for the taking and killing.

You idiots that call people idiots and biggots and racist for having their own views about muslim are the biggest biggots and racist. You think that because your self rightous that your views are always right and everyone else is always wrong. You think that calling someone a biggot makes you some how superior to the people you call those things. That fact is though that your the lowest of the low. No more then the stuff you step in aftyer a dogs been there.

Islam should be abolished at all cost. If it isn'tr, the world will never have peace. Flame away you self rightous pricks.

Because they are ignorant and scared.

GLCSR, your comments sound exactly like the quotes from the Quaran that everyone is talking about.

mdmiriam,

I appreciate that you are explaining the Quran, but I have to disagree with you to an extent. You post "And slay them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence THEY DROVE YOU OUT, for PERSECUTION IS MORE SEVERE THAN SLAUGHTER, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque UNLESS they fight with you in it, BUT IF THEY DO FIGHT YOU, then slay them; such is their just reward." But then you claim that you can only retaliate in like kind. It clearly states that if you are driven out, then you should slay them. That is NOT retaliating in like kind!!!

You post "PERSECUTING Muslims, preventing them from GOING BACK TO THEIR HOMES, visiting their relatives left behind and even preventing them from performing the pilgrimage to Mecca. THIS WAS INTOLERANCE AND PERSECUTION to the ultimate degree." I would imagine that the Jews in Germany during the early 1040's would heartily disagree as would the Christians who were fed to the lions or the slaves brought over to America!

I ask you, mdmiriam, if Muslims were to try to drive out Americans and impose their beliefs into our law, would that be intolerance and persecution allowing the slaying of Muslims? I would certainly hope NOT! In Muslim countries, Christianity is not usually welcomed. Yet, Muslims want this country to change our laws to adapt to their customs, such as our requirement that for your drivers license picture you cannot wear a hate or anything over your head. It appears the intolerance is not just among Americans, but that there is more than enough to go around!!!

As for the eye for an eye, that is part of the Old Testament, the Old Law, which Jesus fulfilled. Have you heard that Jesus said to "turn the other cheek" ? So before you start quoting the Bible, just as you chastised a poster regarding the Quran, you, too, should know the Bible before speaking of it.

For the record, I do not believe that all Muslims are jihadists! I have met and visited with a number of wonderful Muslims. But there are Muslims who interpret the Quran to tell them to kill us because we aren't Muslim. Even by your interpretation of the Quran, we shouldn't be faulted for seeing their statements and their murders as a warning flag for us to be vigilant, correct?

lottapaws, It is Christians who want to "impose their beliefs into our law."

mdmiriam,

Although I applaud your energy in defending Islam, Muslims, etc. on this board, please don't stress yourself out too much. Let the hatred and bigotry take its course. You know that to be Muslim is to be patient and God shows his favor by allowing us to show patience. He is with you. So sister don't get stressed out too much, if you are unable to change people's minds about Muslims or Islam or the fact that some Muslims CAN be mentally/emotionally unstable. So be it....

I've learned long ago that, although I have been willing to give my life for the past 18 years for my fellow citizens to keep them safe, that as long as I'm Muslim to never anticipate gratitude...but to be patient and content in knowing that despite it all, I'm on that wall keeping watch and letting them and their families sleep safe at night. This is my jihad, in the name of Allah.

- 5x OIF/OEF/HOA combat veteran dealing with PTSD

GLCSR..............when you say muslims are trying to shift blame to the victims. Is that not the same as when right wing extremist blame abortion doctors or blown up clinics for causing christian fanatics to act out and murder. Or are there different interpretations for murder, like excused, caused, or provoked ?

Hi,

I just wonder why is it that these muslim cowards always pick a place where they know that people are unarmed, like this coward only shot people that were unarmed, the aircraft were flown into the twin towers filled with unarmed civilians. I believe that all muslims worshipping the islam religion are cowards, they are afraid to condemn the actions of other muslims or islam worshippers throughout the world. They do not wear uniforms, they sneak around like rats in the dark.

Am I being racist? I don't think so!

I just hate cowards, that are trying to mess up 2 countries that may get their freedom and independence.

There is NO excuse for anyone murdering an abortion doctor, and I don't remember hearing any Christians excusing such behavior. I am not saying there were none, but Christianity doesn't excuse that murder! I would imagine that the jury on any trial for such a murderer would consist of Christians who would not condone such behavior either! Your comments are absurd, ignorant and inflammatory.

No one is forcing anyone else to be a Christian. In fact, you cannot force someone to be a Christian because to be a Christian, you must believe in God and accept His Son as your Savior. You can't just say the words. However, this country was founded upon Judeo-Christian principles.

A large part of the problem is that our government has grown into some Big Brother which is NOT what was intended by our Founding Fathers. Unfortunately, add to that the fact that judges want to make policy from their bench and are. The government was to by "of the people, by the people and for the people" not the other way around.

There is NO excuse for anyone murdering an abortion doctor, and I don't remember hearing any Christians excusing such behavior. I am not saying there were none, but Christianity doesn't excuse that murder! I would imagine that the jury on any trial for such a murderer would consist of Christians who would not condone such behavior either! Your comments are absurd, ignorant and inflammatory.

No one is forcing anyone else to be a Christian. In fact, you cannot force someone to be a Christian because to be a Christian, you must believe in God and accept His Son as your Savior. You can't just say the words. However, this country was founded upon Judeo-Christian principles.

A large part of the problem is that our government has grown into some Big Brother which is NOT what was intended by our Founding Fathers. Unfortunately, add to that the fact that judges want to make policy from their bench and are. The government was to by "of the people, by the people and for the people" not the other way around.

This country was NOT founded on judeo-christian beliefs. Our constitution is based on the Iriquois constitution, not the 10 commandments. They even thought that the seperation be so important as to put it in the first amendment.

Conscience,

Salaamu alaykum brother,

Thank you for your post, and I understand that patience is stressed in the Quran, and I try to let it slide off my back, but sometimes I am reminded that I am not a duck, but rather a flawed human being. Having said that, I vowed to Allah that I would speak up against INJUSTICE whenever it is possible.

He said: "When you see injustice, try and correct it with your hands, if that is not possible, then correct it with your voice, and if that is not possible, then hate it (INJUSTICE) in your heart".

I am an outspoken woman and they (the haters of Islam) resent that and want to hold on to their miskewed belief that the Muslim woman is somebody who is to be stifled, and not allowed to speak up or have a say in any matter. I resent all of the attempts by the media and the Islam haters to vilify and demonize Islam at every opportunity.

I try and counter all the negativity by providing correct information about Islam and Muslims. If only one person sees and understands this and changes his/her impression of us, then it would have been worth it.

If you are in the military, I thank you for your service and may Allah keep you out of harm's way, insha'Allah.

Once again, shukran.

salaam.

mdmiriam

Your religion is full of sh_t, you posted a part above, what kind of fruit cake would make a statement like that, your religion promotes hate, and we are supposed to think Muslims are peace loving people, I can't post what I would like to do to all you Muslims .....

You have obviously never read the Declaration of Independence.

mdmiriam,

Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatulillahi wa barakatahu ukhti,

May God reward you for your efforts! I'm reminded of what our beloved Prophet told us, as well as our beloved Moses (pbut), when a man asked about getting into Heaven. The response was "Don't be angry... Don't be angry... Don't be angry..." The man (or women) with anger in their heart will not be allowed to enter Heaven. Remember this sister... La hawla kuwata ilabillah (There is no power or strength except in God). Patience.

Stand out distinctly for what is right sister and let God's Light shine in you through your strength and courage. Mash'allah! Don't let anger overcome, be a light in the darkness to guide others through your compassion, knowledge and patience. We (Muslims) knew this was coming as Rasulullah said, "Holding on to Islam will be like holding on to hot coal". The pressure, hatred, and our (Muslim)situation is going to get MUCH worse, you know this (think Masih ad-Dajjal).

But this is our great opportunity to show God our appreciation through our faith and conduct and inspire our fellow man (woman) by showing them how strong God can make a person by showing patience and restraint in the face of hatred, ridicule, and insult (remember the Sahabah). Every challenge is a potential blessing. God conquers hearts.

Don't be overcome by the "Darkside of the Force" ;-) As God forgives, we must forgive. As God is compassionate, we must be compassionate. He has given us (Muslim) the awesome responsibility of being his representatives...

So lets light up the darkness sister and, insa'allah, we'll see each other in Jannah and drink from Tasneem. Fi ammunullah!

The decleration has no authority at all toward our government.

Conscience,

Salaamu alaykum akhi,

Thanks again for your kind words of encouragement. Do you see all the horrible comments by richie, and the rest of these ignorant bigots. They don't know it, but ironically, their nastiness strengthens my drive and my will and the love of my deen and reminds me more and more of the ahadeeth that tell us of the signs of the end of the world.

Subhaan Allah, how these signs are becoming more apparent with each passing day. One of those signs was that Islam started as something ghareeb (eye-opening, strange) and will once again be seen as something ghareeb.

Subhaan Allah, that the world today, seems obsessed with Islam, and it is at the top of the discussion heap, and out of the bad sometimes comes the good. I heard that there were so many American servicemen and women who embraced Islam after their return from the first Iraqi war. I guess, if there were no war, they would never have heard of Islam. Allah, subhaanahu wa ta3aala, in His own wisdom knows exactly what He's doing.

Anyway, I still am passionate about "debating" these ignorants and will continue to do so, like I said, only for the benefit of perhaps one person out there who may possibly see the noor of Islam, insha'Allah. But I will try and breathe slowly between sentences.

Allahumma ameen.

Take care, Fi amanillaah, brother.

Salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaah wa barakaatuh.

(mdmiriam) (During the "Wild Wild West" didn't the United States earn a reputation for violence?) OVER EXAGGERATED BY HOLLYWOOD.

(During the two World Wars - the most violent and the worst killings in human history - didn't the West in general and Europe in particular earn a reputation for violence either? ) JAPANESE BOMB OUR 18 YEAR OLD KIDS AT PEARL HARBOR.

(Didn't the extermination and displacement of the Native Indian people in the United States make the country barbaric or uncivilized? ) MOST DIED FROM SMALL POX AND DISEASES. (the Crusade (one of the bloodiest times in history) did not make Christianity violent and barbaric, did it? ) SPAIN AND OTHER NATIONS WERE INVADED BY MUSLIMS BEFORE THE CRUSADES. ISLAM IS STILL A YOUNG RELIGION, BEFORE IT WAS INVENTED A LOT OF THE MIDDLE EAST WAS CHRISTIAN AND OTHER RELIGIONS. A LOT OF ARABS WERE FORCED TO JOIN THIS ISLAM WHEN IT WAS NEW OR DIE, OR BECOME A SLAVE, ETC. THE CRUSADES WERE 800 YEARS AGO. I DON`T BLAME YOU FOR GETTING DEFENSIVE BUT ALL OVER THE MUSLIM WORLD MUSLIMS ARE BLOWING UP, CHOPPING OFF HEADS OF MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, BUDDHISTS, HINDUS, JEWS, ATHIESTS, ETC IN THE NAME OF GOD. I THINK THE MUSLIM WORLD NEEDS BETTER LEADERS AND OR NEEDS TO MODERNIZE. GOOD LUCK.

Patq,

Please check your sources and do more thorough research on what led up to WWII's war in the Pacific... As far as the "Native Indians" dying from small pox and disease, where do you think those diseases came from and who weaponized them, put them in sheets and gave them to the "Native Indians"? And finally Spain...if you do a little more research you will know that the Muslims were INVITED into Spain by Count Julian because of the scandal between his daughter Florinda and the debauchery of King Rodrigo (Roderic). During the initial confrontation in 711 with Tariq ibn Ziyad's forces, half of King Rodrigo's forces turned and FOUGHT AGAINST King Rodrigo. The spaniards hated being under Visigoth rule! If you want to know how brutal Muslims were to any Christians that fought against them I suggest you look up the Treaty of Orihuela. Please do more thorough research Patq.

mdmiriam,

Hatred, bigotry, ignorance...let your heart be not troubled dear sister and, true the end of days are coming, there's no need to focus too much on that. Just live your life upright and contribute to the advancement of humanity with whatever gifts God has given you. Remember that the Prophet said that our obligations to our fellow man (woman) are held with a higher weight in the sight of God than our obligations to God. Meaning, that we fulfill our commitments and obligations to the people around us. It is easy to turn one's back on the world and think only of one's self, prayers, and God...it is not always easy to live in the world and interact with patience, benevolence, and forgiveness with those who hate and despise you. This is the challenge we all face...hence the greater jihad. In the big picture, we are all the children of Adam and, though siblings sometimes disagree and fight, we are all still one family in the end. Let's you and I be the model brother and sister so that the rest of our family can see us, be proud of us, and want to emulate us....

Dear sister God has placed you as a lighthouse in the midst of a violent storm at sea to calm fears and guide those safely to shore. You are the cool, clear water that quenches the thirst of those close to dying in the scorching desert, desperately in need. You are the mother that rocks her child in her arms and singing so the child feels safe. This is what God has made you and what we all must be. Feel sakina in your soul and help others feel it as well. As the Prophet was the Servant we must be spiritual servants to humanity. Be the song that comforts the heart and the cool breeze that soothes the soul....

And remember the final brick in the kingdom was lain 1,387 years ago, the walls are sturdy...we are its caretakers now. I know you understand sister.

Salaam

lottapaws

In Muslim countries, Christianity is not usually welcomed. Yet, Muslims want this country to change our laws to adapt to their customs,

Your wrong here. In many muslim countries christian though in minority are still safe and are welcome. There have been some rare incidents of harassment committed by some extremists but for the most part the churches are intact and people are living freely. The harassment and killing on alarger scale of christians in India recently who conveted from hindu religion.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/orissa.christians.we.will.not.renounce.our.faith/24347.htm

As for the eye for an eye, that is part of the Old Testament, the Old Law, which Jesus fulfilled. Have you heard that Jesus said to "turn the other cheek" ? So before you start quoting the Bible, just as you chastised a poster regarding the Quran, you, too, should know the Bible before speaking of it.

First as far as the Bible you are talkng about is concerned has been changed by people to suit there needs. The true message received by Jesus has been overwritten by the so called church leaders and many christian sects. who disagree with each other on many issues. There are now still people working to change the bible - so called work of lord - to acomodate more ungodly acts as religious. The original message from Jesus and all the prophets Moses etc amd Mohammad is the same from God. Yes the original message received by Jesus , Moses and Mohammad is Eye for Eye and Tooth for tooth in justice - but - they all say also that forgiveness is better for you and that God's reward for those who forgive is manifold, although the victim has a part of justice right to recover his loss. The reality is that many humble Muslims, Christians and Jews have followed the path of forgiveness over revenge.

For the record, I do not believe that all Muslims are jihadists! I have met and visited with a number of wonderful Muslims.

Thank you for acknowledging the fact . Just to calrify the word jihadist does not mean what you have in mind. It means more of a peaceful struggle within ones self to do and support good and stay away from evil and with good example and example of good invite others to be part of being and acting in goodness.

art-1088395

Thank you for acknowledging the facts about muslim sacrifices for America. Muslims are a part of the process of America since Christopher Columbus discoverd the land. They travelled with him as sea navigational experts to discover the land and settled in Alamo TX. The landmarks are still there.

notbornyesterday

Get the hell out of the U.S. and go move to Mecca, or some other wacko A--rab country!

Very Racist statement. nothing to do with the subject here.

Norsam--- Kiss my a**! Then get the hell out of the U.S. and move to Mecca or some other wacko A----rab country! You will fit right in!

Lottapaws--Good Post!

notbornyesterday,

Emotions can be a powerful thing and we are living in very emotional times. Sometimes when we talk, we vent.... We vent the hurt. We vent the frustration. We vent that inner pain we feel because of the things we've seen or the things we've had to do. I'm a soldier and I've seen enough death, misery, and pain to last 2 lifetimes.

All that I'm saying, notbornyesterday, is that it is easy to hate, insult, and lash out. Whatever your circumstances, whether you're a soldier or have had friends and family killed here or overseas, heal yourself and don't be part of the walking wounded. Anger and hate will only eat you up inside.

We are in a time that needs HEROES and COURAGE. Not the heroes that rush the battlefield, but the heroes that have the courage to rush minds and hearts with effective communication and wisdom.

Notbornyesterday can you be that hero? I think you can....

notbornyesterday,

Emotions can be a powerful thing and we are living in very emotional times. Sometimes when we talk, we vent.... We vent the hurt. We vent the frustration. We vent that inner pain we feel because of the things we've seen or the things we've had to do. I'm a soldier and I've seen enough death, misery, and pain to last 2 lifetimes.

All that I'm saying, notbornyesterday, is that it is easy to hate, insult, and lash out. Whatever your circumstances, whether you're a soldier or have had friends and family killed here or overseas, heal yourself and don't be part of the walking wounded. Anger and hate will only eat you up inside.

We are in a time that needs HEROES and COURAGE. Not the heroes that rush the battlefield, but the heroes that have the courage to rush minds and hearts with effective communication and wisdom.

Notbornyesterday can you be that much needed hero? I think you can....

conscience?

First of all "thank you" for your service to this our country. What you say is so true....Not very many people care about this on Newsvine..... but I just got back from church...... And the pastor was talking to us about the need to show mercy to "everyone" he was specifically speaking of the Muslims that are in our country, and the blame and hatered that is once again rearing it's head in the wake of the Fort Hood killings. It's true it's not about anger and hatered, that will "eat you up inside". It is about mercy and forgivness, and I for one needed to hear that message myself. Peace to you

Thank you for bringing the good news. May God help you with your endavours. amen

I hope notbornyesterday-359530 will also read your message and get a lesson from it.

Sholom,

Thank you for your thoughtful, rational post; you definitely are worthy of your name, Sholom. Cooler minds and soft hearts in the end must prevail. If you would allow me to take from your teachings the concept of agapic love. This, I believe, is one of the most powerful forces (when practiced sincerely) within Christendom. To have an altruistic love for humanity takes a special kind of soul. And that one soul can affect billions. It is easy to love and forgive your neighbor, but can we love and forgive our enemies? That is the question. Can mercy and forgiveness change a heart? Can love bring 2 people, 2 enemies, 2 worlds together? I believe it can. As we all fall short the glory of God, it is the Mercy and Love of God that sustains us. I am Muslim, you are Christian, others are Jews, Hindus, Athiests, etc. Beneath all the labels and dogma, we are all the same...fragile, emotional beings that need love, acceptance, and meaning in our lives. We are all part of the same family united by our common parents (Adam & Eve). Understanding this precept makes all things possible.

As Christ said that some seeds fall upon the rock and are washed away by the rain, some seeds fall on fertile soil... Sholom, I know where your seed has fallen....

Sholom it all begins with the simplest of kind words and cousin might I reciprocate your graciousness... Peace be to you and thank your pastor for me.

- Conscience?

Conscience? 1.The US stayed neutral untill the bombing of Pearl Harbor. 2.I am part Native American and have studied indian history, there has never been any proof that blankets were intentially diseased on purpose except in hollywood movies. 3.As for Spain, historians have many different views of how there relationship with Julian was, either way the Muslims murder a lot of Christians, jews, and others in Spain. Before they got to Spain they also went all across northern Africa killing to reach Spain. Please check your research better Connie.

lotta taqiyya here.

Hello Patq (Connie),

Peace and convivencia...

breaking news, newspapers are reporting Hasan was at the same mosque at the same time as 2 of the 911 hijackers in Virginia while a radical iman preached there. huh

I wish this thread had not been collapsed. Aside from a few hateful outbursts, it has been the most rational and educational exchange I've seen on the vine since the Fort Hood tragedy.