Death toll rises to 13 in Fort Hood rampage

Some years back, I can't remember exactly where, there was a similiar incident involving airborne or rangers---I believe? I can't remember how many killed etc.? With the shooter's background, he wasn't a groundpounder. Chances are, he wouldn't have seen combat? I never went to Hood. I know it's armor and that's about it. Well, he doesn't have to worry about going now or anything else for that matter. Lavenworth is waiting on him.

richard------ "they" could have been reference to anyone.

But it said "authorities," didn't it?

Actually the one who shot Hasan was a female MP. She was also shot by him. Both survived. She being an MP would make her an Authority under that definition. Which really means nothing one way or the other. The fact that we have 13 dead and 30 wounded soldiers who died at the hand of another soldier is shocking. I think that the most important thing for us Americans to remember is that this was someone who was deeply disturbed. Although he was of the muslim faith, not all muslims are of the same belief. I'm sure that there will be a huge calling to ship all muslims back to their countries today, but, most American muslims do not believe as this man does. If we ship every muslim back to their country then what do we do with all the depressed school kids who "might" go to school and start shooting? Where do we ship them? The important thing is to keep this incident in perspective as hard as that may be. I served in the military for 20 yrs with people of all different faiths and backgrounds. Everyone is different and has different beliefs. Even people of the same faith have different beliefs. Just the nature of the beast. May God Bless those who died yesterday and their families.

This guy took the money for his education, and then when he has to deploy, he goes on a killing spree?? What part of the military did he not understand? He was a doctor ,for cripes sake. Check out some websites, he is being cheered as a hero within our own country. He was treating our guys, after they have spent 15 months being shot at and dodging bullets, and vehicles blowing up, and then just because this guy didn't want to do what they did, he kills the very guys he treated. God bless our guys at Ft Hood.

I could see this turning into a media backed frenzy. That would be a mistake. This isn't as frequent an incident as say school shootings or just plain community crime. It is sad sure it shouldn't of happened yes. But hindsight isn't always the best way to look at things.

I too question whether we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan. I am not Muslim nor going to go of the handle. Its our right and our duty to question the decisions of our government. My point is to not start categorizing every one. Personally I would of preferred waiting for Osama to pop his head out like a wood chuck and then targeting their weapons suppliers and training facilities no matter the country in which they lie. Blunt swords where used in the past and we are supposed to grow intellectually with our advances in technology.

Personally I think the News Media is careless and callous in their pursuit to make money while selling controversial NEWS! When you have one form of supposedly solid information, you tend to believe and not question the factual content of said one sided info. Supply and Demand. Of course you can't hold all accountable for a few others indiscretions. When you find a bad apple you don't throw away the batch you throw away the bad apple.

my prayers go got to the victims famlies. . .this is a damn shame how this coward puxxied out of his duties to his country.

I too was also somewhat uncomfortable about being deployed, not knowing if it were going to be the last time I would see my wife and my 8 year old son, my Mom and Dad, my brothers and sisters. My family lived through this war three times as I pulled three tours (One to Iraq and two tours to Afghanistan/Pakistan border region --- Marine Force Recon) with my longest tour being 18 months.

My point is -- no one wants to go to war, however, this is what you signed up for and trained to do, to serve and protect.

I am honored to be able to serve my country and protect my family. My family are my heroes!

Swift and immediate action is the only action that should be handed down. Hasan doesn't deserve another breath that we fought for him to breathe........

May God be with the families and RIP to our fallen soldiers.

SEPMER FI TO MY MARINE FORCE RECON BROTHERS........!

Thank you for your dangerous service Brooklyn.

My question in all of this is "when are we going to learn from the past?" We saw a similar type of mental fatigue in our VN war veterans, but they hadn't fully defined PTSD after that war. Even after Bush 41's first Arab War, we didn't fully assess this disorder based on long-term combat fatigue. But now we have an eight year MidEast war where our soldiers are doing multiple tours of 12-18 months with little R&R between combat tours. How are they supposed to deal with this "killing" stress, no matter how well we train them before sending them off to kill? As the various commentators have been noting in the past 12 hours, our post-zone (and even in zone) psychiatric support is way under-staffed. If we are going to send our military into this type of warfare for such long durations, we had better be ready to deal with the consequences. That means getting more mental health providers involved and providing the SAME care for those providers. You can't counsel the mentally ill for any length of time before it begins to affect you too without your getting counseling to deal with it. We could begin to see a domino effect in this chain soon if we don't get out of these war zones soon.

The militia was originally designed to protect our borders, NOT to dominate the world with our concept of "democracy" being forced upon other parts of the world. Too many of our "wars" in the past half century have been to protect our "natural resources" interests (rubber in Viet Nam, oil in the MidEast.) Our leaders use other excuses for entering into these arenas, but in reality it is the military/industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about back in the 50's that is controlling the direction of our government. Now we have the new version of that in the terrorism/industrial complex where more and more of our involvement in these war zones is being conducted by PRIVATE corporations being paid by us taxpayers.

My prayers and condolences to the families of the killed and wounded yesterday.

We have been at war for 8 years, I have been deployed multiple time over 7 deployments. Yes It stinks leaving friends and family and the thought of death enters ones head, but we know what we signed up for. you do your job and come home. This was a Muslim who hated his country's involment in foreign affairs. THe UCMJ will take of him. Now the Military has not executed anyone in along time and I'm sure his nationality will be front and center. PC as usual! He could have resigned his comission and payed back the army for school. If that didnt work he could have went and saw the shink and stated why it would be a bad idea for him to deploy. There are multiple avenues he could have chosen. But instread he went after the so-called aggressor.

Plain and simple he didnt want to deploy and have to face any other muslium in threater.

He is a shink with a bad OER and would not have been on a line unit. Which i'm sure he knew. So that leave only one possible explination. He is a traitor. We had some of the same issues with my unit upon deployment to Iraq in 2003. You remember the muslium that huck a frag into his command CP? All because he was muslium, I know alot of great soldier who are muslium but we (in the military) need to start profiling soldier. Every soldier needs a mental eval along with their yearly performance evaluation. It is true the enemy is in our our ranks and has been for some time.

thank you for your service 1screaminEagle.

Fu*k Allah

It will be interesting to find out about this guy who ended up being a douschebag and killing his fellow soldiers. It sounds like when he signed up he was being patriotic and then he snapped.

No Name that's messed up. The Quran is Normally trnaslated into a peaceful text. It is how it is interprited is where problems occure. Everyone has a differant interpritation. The people I deal with live by the Quran and preach peace. But the taliban only look for whta they want and interprit it as Kill the infidel. It would be like taking the words in the bible "an eye for an eye" and taking it to the extreme. when it also says to turn the other cheek and forgive.

So to say screw a Muslium God is not really correct.

Derek,

he signed up prior to 9-11 is what the media is saying. So I hope he did sign up for the right reasons and not to have his school paid for.

Fuçk Allah, he can go ƒuck himself and all the islamic åssholes!

1screaminEagle, its funny how the military persons here get it but the civilians don't. Thanks for your service to our Country.

Ahh, yes; Islam means "Peace"... Run the numbers regarding terroristic or criminally violent actions in the name of Islam, or even just one-on-one violent acts committed by adherents to Islam; it is statistically impossible to equate the "peacefullness" displayed by huge numbers of Muslims with any other contemporary religion - at least on Earth... How many more "peaceful acts" by devout Muslims are Americans supposed to endure under the guise of Political Correctness?

TiredOfAnarchy

So you were there, Richard? You traced the source of the fire from a particular weapon how?

Anarchy are you an idiot??? My comment was about proper use of the english language by the "professionals" at MSNBC. It had NOTHING to do with any facts concerning the actual events surrounding the shooting, moron.

Bob,

People who have never experianced a fight agaist extremeist will never understand.

Nidal Hasan is a weak-minded individual who has displayed what a muslim is about as much as Hannibal Lecter showed what it is to be a Vegan!

Please DO NOT lump all muslims together. I have been among a vast number of muslims in Turkey, Iraq, and Kurdistan. Everyone I met was as good as the average citizen here in America.

Psychiatrist Goes Psycho! (that's my take on this mess)

PLEASE PRAY for the families, friends, and bystanders affected by this stupid and COWARDLY attack!

First and foremost, I feel for the people who died and their families. I served in the 1980's, but was fortunate enough not to have gone to war. Those who go to war and survive only to come home and be killed by a fellow soldier have suffered a tragedy of biblical proportions.

What people need to realize is that many of Islam's followers are generally willing to die for their religion. Just as gangs have infiltrated our military to get training and perform their own recruiting, Islamic militants have infiltrated our military to collect intelligence. These people may be spies or they may be waiting to execute a jihad or both. In any case, if you haven't noticed, Islam is at war with Judaism, Hinduism and Christianity.

We may go to war for economic reasons, which is the main reason any civilization, past or present goes to war. But, the followers of Islam do not follow the same pattern. They fight to eliminate anyone who is not Islamic. They fight for their god. There is not one Islamic country that is a true friend of the US. The closest you will get is Turkey, but Turkey has a history that is more connected to the West. Still, many of their people do not care for us.

My point is that we can keep fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it is the whole Islamic world that we are at war with.

Islamic militants have a mission to use our freedoms, which they view as weaknesses, against us. One of our "weaknesses" is that we accept many religions, races and nationalities into our country and our military. So they will attempt to prove that we are weak because of this.

The bottom line with Islam is that we have two choices. We fight all of Islam or we remove ourselves from offending Islam in any way, shape or form. If we fight, millions will die. If we remove ourselves from offending Islam, we must get all of our troops out of the Middle East and we must distance ourselves from Israel.

There are no other options here. Additionally, we must consider more stringent background checks when people sign up for the military. In my opinion, I would single out Islamics for a more in-depth background check. Yes, it seems unfair, but let's deal with reality here. You don't invite your enemy to stay in your home unless he has proven to be your friend and not your enemy. Again, we are at war with Islam even if our government and our people don't want to admit it. The Jews and the Hindus already know this...we seem to be in denial of this fact.

Just a note about something of importance. A history professor I had when I first attended college after my military service in 1988 said, "The Balkans will be trouble soon, but the Middle East will likely be the location of the next world war". He turned out to be right about the Balkans, and so far, he was partially correct about the Middle East. How long can the rest of the world ignore the hate coming from Islamic countries...countries that are developing or already have nuclear weapons? These are people that hate all other religions, abuse their women and even kill their own daughters and are willing to die as long as they take out anyone not Islamic. They even kill their own people with the justification that it is Allah's will.

Our President and our people are at a point where we need to make a choice. The feeling of sitting here and watching our troops die for no justifiable reason is grinding on the American people.

Once this puke has been found guilty they should sew him into a pig skin suit and execute him by firing squad. It should be nationally televised at prime time.

I work for the Department of Veterans Affairs here in California and I can say that all of our hearts, prayers and thoughts go out to those who were lost. This is a complete shock to everyone, I haven't worked here long but from what I can see everyone is family and this hits really close to home for everyone.

Our service men and women already have enough to worry about with going to war, leaving their families behind and survival of their own life when they do leave. The last thing they needed to worry about or face was one of their own committing such an act. I hope justice provails and i hope justice is swift.

This is truly a sad and horrific event that has happened, I hope healing comes to those that were wounded and effected by what happened. I hope angels help those that were lost cross over to a better place.

Peace, Love, Prayer and God is with you all.

Another case of a dangling participle.

COH Violations - Admin please remove no name posts. We can't even flag them.

Who cares who shot him, I just wish she was a better shot.

A Jihaddist killed people at Ft Hood in support of his fanatical Muslim beliefs. Mr Barak Hussein Obama, what conclusion could we possibly be jumping to?!

Where is the word TERROR and TERRORISTS in Obama's comments?

He's treating this rampage like it happened in Mayberry.

Obama is asking the American People to have no respect for him as President.

He shouldn't use the word Terror or Terrorist until and unless he's sure that it WAS a terrorist incident.

I've heard of plenty of other mass shootings that were perpetrated by NON-muslims, and we don't automatically label them as Terrorist acts - Nor should we.

The bottom line is labeling it a Terrorist act gives it too much credibility and impact on our lives. It's a crime, pure and simple, and I won't dignify it by labeling it as a terrorist attack (or a Martyrdom attack) or give the shooter the satisfaction of having him affect my life.

That said, for all we know he simply cracked.

If I learn differently, I'll be happy to eat my words.

I pray for all the innocent soldiers whose lives are now changed forever. I also have to question why the president tells everyone not to jump to conclusions, when he himself jumps to them i.e. his bogus comments about the Cambridge Police Department. A classic case of do as I say and not as I do...

Hawaii2 - Correct. But what can you expect from a guy who considers radical Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan his hero.

MSNBC hasn'y reported a true news story in so long, if ever, they don't have the capacity to report real and truthful news. Do the nmaes Olberman, Matthews and Ed ring a bell. Yellow journalists all.

This Hasan deserves true Waterboarding.

I am just relieved the President was able to get his "shoutouts" to all his adoring fans and supporters. He was so cool and jovial. Glad he could get that out of the way before he had to address the serious and so not fun shooting at that Texas army base.

E. Goode-

He killed 13 innocent people and wounded 30+ others. Do you think maybe that those people felt terrorized?! But since they are finding evidence of his support for other terrorist actions in his web posts, I think we can be assured that he as a terrorist and/or terrorist sympathizer. Bon Appetite!

Islam means "submission" it does not mean peace. The penguin edition of koran is not a real translation. To get a real one you must go to what authoritative imams have blessed. I've read one cover to cover. It clarifies everything.

Koran commands that no muslim shall fight against another muslim. It commands that no muslim shall rest until the infidel is utterly subjugated. It commands that no muslim soil shall have infidel soldiers on it. It commands that before killing the enemy a muslim should try to give them a chance to convert. Koran commands that no muslim can respect any nation except islam.

So - Hasan handed out korans to give people a chance to convert. He dressed in traditional dress. Then he went to kill as many infidels as possible.

Very simple. It's what goes on in the minds of muslim terrorists every day. It is the precise reasoning of Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

Let's not jump to conclusions on this, BHO said so.

Good point George-313012! And to add,we shouldn't jump to conclusions like he did at Cambridge with the professor and the policeman..."Police acted stupidly"!

Scarab - I haven't heard any evidence coming out yet - but I wouldn't doubt it.

I still think that labeling things as Terrorist Attacks is wrong. I don't want it to have that much impact on my life. I'm not going to be afraid to walk down my own god demmed street or fly on a god demmed plane. I'll be demmed if I let some religious nut (or just plain nut) make me terrorized of anything.

I also don't believe we should put terrorists to death - even this one. Yes they deserve it, and I'd pull the trigger myself - I just don't want to give them the satisfaction of being Martyred.

If their souls are so valueable to them - denying them Martyrdom is a far better punishment since death is what they crave.

it sounds 'fishy'... something is wrong with this story...

It is like a Kennedy or one of those government explanations that only comes out after 3 weeks...

Something is not adding up. I do not think this guys with his family background being born and raised in America would do this just because he is muslim.

If you believe that, then you should believe Barack Obama will do the same, being born and raised here, but with a muslim background.

This whole story sounds so off. Especially since the president himself said, do not jump to conclusions, and reports say that 'authorities in the confusion shot/wounded victims'... so... I'm not sure we should just say something stupid about a guy we don't even know...

Adriana - I had the same feeling. And coming out and saying "he's a muslim, that's why" is a little too easy of an out (even if that's what ends up being the case).

Hawaii, I was sure that some of you morons would twist this around to be Obama's fault, but it surprises me that you are going about it in such an incredibly stupid way. You need to turn off your Faux news and do a little research. If you had the slightest idea what the term terrorism even means, you would not so easily toss it around because there is NO WAY you can know what the man's motivations for these terrible behaviors were and motive is CENTRAL to defining any act as terrorist. Terrorism=the use of violence or threat of violence against innocents in an effort to gain some political end. Without understanding the perpetrator's motives, there is simply know way to know whether this was a terrorist act or not.

Barack Hussein Obama lecturing the United States of America not to jump to conclusions about Nidal Malik Hasan.

Shhhhhh.

Muslim Lovefest in Progress.

LMFAO!!!

If it had been a White Cop? The Naivete Extraordinaire, Cheerleader in Chief would have been all over the cop like flies on shiit.

Hey, Barry?

Don't you have anything better to do?

Sheesh.

sooo, the bamer doesn't want us to jump to conclusions?????  Seems to me he jumped to conclusions when a certain black professor was arrested cause he acted like a total jerk!!!!!!!!!!!!

POTUS has no right to preach to the American people not to jump to conclustions, after his mis-happ wit the cop and his friend the teacher. One must lead by example.

Hey YOU better chill out or your going to find yourself at a Beer summit with Barry and Hasan.... then you'll be in real trouble mister.

i agree they should get all the ones with arab decent out of the military, why on earth did they let him in the military in the first place, didnt 9-11 mean anything to our country.... and we all think our children are safe in the military apparently not if our country is going to continue to let them ragheads in. Some of our own people cant get in the military and they let an idiot in too kill our kids.. obama needs to do something

scarab- you nailed it again. The gyrations that these idiots put themselves thru is ridiculous. Hey libs and MSM, this was a terrorist act perpetrated on our soil, somewhat helped by gov't lack of intel follow thru on obvious red flags, to kill as many Americans as possible. There. Now you get it.

David - Lulz!

Let's see: the guy is a muslim; has an arab name; has bad mouthed our efforts in Asia; has defended our enemies' actions; and was witnessed shooting 40 people while shouting "praise allah" ........... but don't jump to any conclusions!

Adriana Matos...

If you believe that, then you should believe Barack Obama will do the same, being born and raised here, but with a muslim background. HOW do you know he was born and raised here?? He will NOT let anyone see his birth cert. AND by the way the ONLY difference between ob and that jerk is he killed people and ob is destroying a WHOLE NATION!!! Don't jump to conclusions my butt.

Patriot - I keep hearing the same phrase - "OB is destroying the WHOLE NATION" repeatedly.

Would somebody please explain that sentiment to me - as if I were in elementary school? I'm really at a loss to understand how he's destroying our country. I'm not being glib. I'm serious.

Don't give me emotional barf about it - just tell me the facts. Plainly and simply - How is Barack Obama destroying our country?

If you can compare your assertions with past Presidents - that would be helpful as well. Don't limit yourself to Bush, Clinton, Reagan either.

This is why us liberals worked so hard to get him elected.  We wanted a kind president who doesn't immediately blast other nations.  Obama is a sensible and intelligent leader and world respects him.  Mass shootings and terrorist incidents happen by different people such as Oklahoma City (American Militias), Virginia Tech (Korean student) or Columbine (Christian kids).  We cannot make conclusions and must keep our heads and our cool as Obama would do.

what ever

MDDB '1"

This is one case the F-word is appropriate.

Thanks.

President Obama is bland with his reactions to any subject except Healh Care..

He doesn't react with "any mojo" or fire. Monotous talk. No reaction to anything, not even the unemployed.

With the Unemployed, sure he is saying the same thing, "Don't Jump to any Conclusions yet".

The Majority of Americans have jumped to the conclusion, he can't do the job.

What's the answer with Afghanistan. Do not kill the Taliban, Islamsists or Muslims?

Hawaii2 I totally agree with you did you see the video of his speech and how he reads the notes of it and then says it and looks down again and then a little more. He doesn't care is what his body language says and with his uh ummm long pauses in between it! it was so insincere of a speech, I was disgusted, for something as serious as this regardless of what reasons.

CONSERVATIVE_LIB,

I like your style!

On a different note, I heard some talk about how we can interview likely Muslim soldiers. It would be a case of "profiling".

I want to be clear that I am against baseless discrimination, period. However, "profiling" is done all the time, on lots of attributes in order to thin the interviews/investigations to the most risky/productive lot. When a police officer pulls a car over and smells marijuana in a car, does he turn to the 4 year in the back seat and say, have you been toking? No, he turns to the 25 year old male (who looks like Shaggy from Scooby Doo), and asks him. Why did he ask the 25 year old. Is that "age profiling"? Yes! And it's sensible.

When you are looking for a problem, you look in the most likely place for that problem. And if previous experience teaches that it's more likely in one place then another, well then, you look there first. It's not pretty, and it's not always fair, but that is reality.

The profiling needs to have a basis in truth and statistics (in downtown Philadelphia there are more black drug arrests than white - of course, there simply are more blacks in downtown Philadelphia, that statistic would not support profiling blacks more for drugs). Of course, there needs to be sensible judgment, but "profiling" as a whole is sensible. Indeed, entire crime fighting organizations profile criminals all the time.

I think it's high time we ignore the "fairness" and go for "sensibility". Profiling ought to be used to screen military (and other service) applicants.

Momma:

You are out of your mind. Defending Terrorism. If a bomb was sitting under your derriere, would you get up?

That is Terrorism. Get educated. Remarks made are from someone who likes to babble with no content of interest.

George:

Correct on all words and thoughts.

Lost Soul,

We dont need to get rid of our Arab soldiers. I many friends who are Arab and I have shared many of prayer and figher-fights with them. What we need is more evals and closer looks into background and actions of ALL service members. Any soldier is capable of snapping and doing alot of harm. An evaluation of tthis major and a closer to detail look on what he was saying whould have proven to be helpful. We soldier have know rights...LOL! so DSSor Counter Intel can dive into our lives anytime they want. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to loose.

My Arab soldiers have proven themselves as great soldiers and translators where one mis spoken word or gesture can make or break a friendship. I have know problem with them. Usually in case like yesterday there is a pattern. Soldiers need to feel as though if their is a concern with another that they can go to their chain-of-command and action will be taken and looked into. Without being labled a racist or any of the lable put on people. I have had several soldier voice their concerns to me and I took their concerns to my CO. But All of us must be dilligant knowing the enemy has infiltrated our ranks. even though we are not on the battle field in some cases we still must stay alert.

Ebeneezer Goode...If you look at what this nation was founded on, he has gone WAY left or socialist. He has taken over the banking syastem all along saying "we dont want to be in the banking business". He has now taken over gm and now stands for gov. motors. The housing industry, he is trying to take over the health industry. He has app. tax cheats to his staff. He prmoised a trasnparent admin. which hasnt happened. He is trying to take over every aspect of the free market. He will not create jobs the way his plan works. This time next year we will be much more in the hole than we are now. The next step IS inflation, there is no way around it. IF the gov. (and I mean both sides) would get out of the way with all the restrictions they put on business and let the free market work we as a nation would come out of this. He wont do that. This nation did not become great by depending on gov. Gov. IS the problem NOT the answer. I am NOT rich, I have little money but I am smart enough to know that jobs are created by two groups. One by private sector which PAYS taxes and the other is gov. which collect taxes to pay for those jobs. The more money the rich have free to spend the more jobs there will be. I want everyone to be rich, I just do NOT want to steel the money THEY worked for to get there.

You mean we should jump to conclusions something like a stupid white cop conclusion?

So, we shouldn't jump to conclusions. . . .so we should wait and figure a way to blame it on Bush????? If Afghanistan or how he has handled Iran shows anything he would not come to a decision before the next election!!!!!!!

Obama doesn't want us to jump to conclusions! 1)Fact A US Army Major OF Palestinian ancestry kill 13 and wounds 30 other soldiers on at Fort Hood. 2) Fact Said Major is being investigated for Posts suicide bombing comments on radical Islamic web sites.

I do not think we need to jump to conclusions Mr President. the facts speak for them selves

I think enough facts are in to conclude we've suffered a home-grown terrorist attack. We need follow up to make sure Major Hasan is a lone wolf and not part of a larger conspiracy. As for our intelligence agencies whoever tracked the fact he had Jihadist postings and failed to reel his a$$ in needs to be dealt with too.

E Goode you are a complete idiot. Why don't you take your fat a** and go play rugby with you hidious wife.

Many of you have jumped to a lot of conclusions without reading all of the "assumptions" and "reports" that have been posted on many sites since yesterday. The Major enlisted in the Army long before 9/11, as have many other Arab-Americans. Are you now saying (as this country did during WWII) that all Koreans, all Africans, all MidEast, all Japanese, all German descendants should be banned from the military? That only those of English or Native American descent should be allowed to be part of the military? After all, we have at one point in our history or another been at war with almost every other country in the eastern hemisphere (including England.)

As far as the "war" nature of Islam, Christianity is no better....remember the Crusades and the hundreds of thousands of people the Crusaders killed in the name of christianity. And that goes for all of the Native Americans we slaughtered right here in North America in the name of christianity.

R.Lee-1218992...Why don't you take your fat a** and go play rugby with you hidious wife. You sound like a real smart piece of work.

why is anybody trying to protect this coward? he is not a good person. he is not a good american. he is not a good muslim, ect, ect. he is nothing. a worthless waste of life. good people don't kill innocent people. good americans don't kill their comrades. good muslims don't act like this. leavenworth does not suffice. old sparky is more like it.

Jin:

President Obama made speeches with the inference he is a Muslim Sympathizer. Just go to the famous website with tube, and listen to speeches made.

Seems he has no real interest in the real America. Body language tells all. He is very bored of not telling the truth.

It is very revealing.

Stan W. - With the shooter's background, he wasn't a groundpounder. Chances are, he wouldn't have seen combat?

This is Asymmetric Warfare, everyone is a Combatant. Finally, one of the News networks (CBS?) showed some of the women US Military combatants. Sharia Law men are NOT allowed to touch (search) women. These US Military women have gotten into intense gun battles with male insurgents dressed as women in burkhas smuggling weapons.

cpw777 - This guy took the money for his education, and then when he has to deploy, he goes on a killing spree?? What part of the military did he not understand? He was a doctor ,for cripes sake.

There were many that joined the US Military just for their education to be paid for, and do almost anything to get out of the contract. I met many of them before.

anti-trust proponent - The militia was originally designed to protect our borders,

Historically, there were many forms of the US Military. The Minutemen (Asymmetric Warfare, no uniforms, shopkeeps, merchants, farmers, etc.) fought the British until the Continental Army (Conventional Napoleonic Warfare, uniforms) could be formed, the Militia (Conventional Warfare NapoleonicWarfare, uniforms, predecessor to National Guard) defeated by General Cornwallis and Henry Clinton (ancestor of Bill) after the "Militia" Armories were seized before the "War of the Colonies" even started. With the Militia being hunted by the Colonial British Loyalists and Bounty Hunters. Did a Research Paper on this.

And April 2009, US President meeting with Mexican President, US Policy is NOT to use US Military to secure US Borders. This was again restated August 2009 by US President during meeting Mexican President and Canadian Prime Minister. As soon as this was stated this became US Policy as reflected in the revised US NORTHCOM OPLANs.

By the way I was a six to eight year College Student, could not decide what Career I wanted to have for the rest of my life, this included Medical and Psychology. Psychiatrists are trained about problems of patients to psychiatrist ("transference" was the term used when I was trained).

Too many of our "wars" in the past half century have been to protect our "natural resources" interests (rubber in Viet Nam, oil in the MidEast.)

If this is true, try doing without them. Not twenty years from now after we develop alternatives, NOW.

Our leaders use other excuses for entering into these arenas, but in reality it is the military/industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about back in the 50's that is controlling the direction of our government.

And you think before Eisenhower, President FDR did not use the US Military to get us out of the Great Depression after the failures of his programs. Wrote a research paper based on recently declassified documents, these documents were later used to exonerate the Pearl Harbor Commanders, Kimmel and Short; in that the President knew about Pearl Harbor, 1940, and allowed it to happen (to get the "Isolationist" US into the War At Europe as insisted by US Ambassador Joseph Kennedy and Winston Churchill).

1screaminEagle, most of these posters have no clue about Asymmetric Warfare, welcome to my f*&^ed up world. This shooting is exactly what happens (here) on a reoccurring basis in Asymmetric Warfare.

"101 Patch on my shoulder"

Every soldier needs a mental eval along with their yearly performance evaluation.

Do you know how most Psychiatrists work, when they cannot figure you out and put you into a category they put you into a category of "Mixed Personality Disorder". Realize that this category is not really applicable in the US Military due to the fact that as Leaders we must adapt to many "Personalities", Father (Authoritarian), Mother (Sympathetic), Brother to our peers, Sister to our female peers, Son/Daughter to superiors, Rationalist (If I did not shoot first, I would be dead), etc..

The Quran is Normally translated into a peaceful text.

I translated this from farsi, you figure out the meanings (see bottom of post).

boog a loo 22 - Please DO NOT lump all muslims together. I have been among a vast number of muslims in Turkey, Iraq, and Kurdistan.

Unfortunely, so have I since the 1980s, with the Holy Koran (Quran) stating (see bottom of post), either you believe or you are a "unbeliever", Islam is NOT a pick and choose "Way of Life" (Religion, Culture, Heritage, Law, Customs, etc.) as there is NO "separation of Church and State" (example: when President Saddam Hussein was declared an "unbeliever" by Islamic Nations for his pro Western actions (no burkhas, women allow to drive, etc.) as the reason no Islamic Nation came to his assistance, not my interpretation just a fact (consequence) from Fundamentalist Islamic Iran (first declared President Saddam Hussein an "unbeliever" for his Pro Western Laws)).

Bloggerrich - Just as gangs have infiltrated our military to get training and perform their own recruiting, Islamic militants have infiltrated our military to collect intelligence. These people may be spies or they may be waiting to execute a jihad or both.

Now you see why Conventional Warfare loses against Asymmetric Warfare.

In any case, if you haven't noticed, Islam is at war with Judaism, Hinduism and Christianity.

I do not know about Hinduism, however the specific references from the Holy Koran (Quran) against Jews and Christians are:

[2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.217] They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his
religion, then he dies while an unbeliever-- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.75] And what reason have you that you should not fight in the way of Allah and of the weak among the men and the women and the children, (of) those who say: Our Lord! cause us to go forth from this town, whose people are oppressors, and give us from Thee a guardian and give us from Thee a helper.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

[8.13] This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Apostle; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Apostle-- then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).

[8.14] This-- taste it, and (know) that for the unbelievers is the chastisement of fire.

[8.15] O you who believe! when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them.

[8.16] And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day-- unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company-- then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be.

[8.17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

[8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

[8.66] For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you; so if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission, and Allah is with the patient.

[8.67] It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

[8.68] Were it not for an ordinance from Allah that had already gone forth, surely there would have befallen you a great chastisement for what you had taken to.

[8.69] Eat then of the lawful and good (things) which you have acquired in war, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

[9.31] They (Jews and Christians) have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

[9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.

[9.33] He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness (the term used means no mercy); and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[48.16] Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight, Jihad) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.

Those that do not adhere to the above are NOT Muslims and are considered as "unbelievers" according to Sharia Law, Hadith, Imami Shi'i Law, etc.. Again this is NOT a pick and choose "Way of Life" (in that Islam is "all", not just a "Religion") and once in never out (if you quit your are subject to death worse than an "unbeliever" - Islamic Laws. Supposedly because you knew better and turned your back to Allah and the Prophet).

The Qur'an says that Allah curses the one who harms the Prophet in this world and He connected harm of Himself to harm of the Prophet. There is no dispute that anyone who curses Allah is killed and that his curse demands that he be categorized as an unbeliever. The Judgment of the unbeliever is that he is killed. [...] There is a difference between ... harming Allah and His Messenger and harming the believers. Injuring the believers, short of murder, incurs beating and exemplary punishment. The judgment against those who harm Allah and His Prophet is more severe – the death penalty. - Qadi Iyad ibn Musa al-Yahsubi (Islamic Law Legal Authority).

With that said, those US Military killed and injured need to be awarded Combat Medals, since this is Asymmetric Warfare. Those that have been in or are in the US Military know what this means; especially the Congressional Purple Heart. And those assisting the wounded with disregard for their own safety, awarded a Bronze Star (valor) as a minimum. This will help the families and those in the US Military.

BKLaw - Is that what happened? I was in another room and thought I heard Obama giving a "shot" out to someone. He did this before speaking about the shootings.

I can't believe he did that. When are Democrats going to fix this mistake? I didn't care for Bush, but Obama is a complete idiot. And they are hosting some chef competition at the White House...our President and our tax dollars at work. All he cares about is entertaining. It's sickening.

Biden must be a mess dealing with this crap. Sort of a"What have I gotten myself into" feeling. Can the VP relieve the President if he is not doing his job? Does anybody know if this is possible?

I guess after the chef thing, the'll be planning something like " A White House Christmas with Oprah".

add to post 1.76

Did suspected gunman shout "Allahu akbar?"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=33713471&#33713471

03:21 of 04:06

Matt Lauer - According to a relative to one of the witnesses to the shooting. Major Hasan shouted allahu akbar or god is great before he opened fire on the soldiers can you confirm that from other reports?

Lieutenant General Robert Cone, Fort Hood Commanding Officer - "there are first hand accounts of other soldiers here, from soldiers that are similar to that"

It is long past due to do away with the impotence of political correctness. It is a sign of weakness that finds it's roots in Liberalism and needs to be removed from the thinking of those responsible for our safety. We must profile those who are the perpetrators of these acts. If they fit the profile CHECK THEM OUT! Screw the ACLU and their co-conspirators.

richard; you're funny. a policeman is "authority".

Patriot, I don't play rugby, I am not fat and my wife is hot and you are a punk. E Goode is fat, he does play rugby and his wife is hidious. Now let him fight is own battles and you zip it.

The lowest level of hell is reserved for traitors. The mongrel shooter will get whats coming to him in the end.

So, according to his family, this psychiatrist, "started having second thoughts about his military career" after his education and medical schooling was all completed...at the expense of the United States Government. We trained this monster in the specialty of treatment of post traumatic stress syndrome, and he used that knowledge to go out and create terror, death and panic that will leave so many in our military families, and our citizens... struggling with post traumatic stress syndrome, as well as facing the horror of the senseless death of loved ones. Cowards don't come much more cowardly than that...and hypocrites don't come much more deceptive than that...and evil doesn't work much more cunningly than that. If this military doctor even thought in his nonsensical, hate filled mind that he had experienced some "harassment for being a Muslim", a look at his government sponsored medical degree and position of Officer in the US military could have brought him back to reality. In truth, if he made those accusations, I believe it was nothing more than a previous attempt to manipulate, misrepresent truth, and mislead in an attempt to abandon his unfulfilled promise of service and obligation. Any claims by him or his family of his suffering PTSD resulting from treating service members would fall into the same category of manipulating the truth for his own purposes. In a twisted way, this guy used all we gave him and taught him...to turn and use that same education to hurt us...our country and members who serve in our military, in his attempt to remove our ability to "feel safe", as a result of his very planned and manipulated attack on those who were entrusted to his care, and that he was obligated to serve. A twisted, horrendous way of trying to inflict even greater pain through this cowardly and evil act, in my opinion. Coward Nidal Malik Hasan has displayed terrorism of the highest form, in my opinion, and I can only pray that he is held accountable for the purposeful, premeditated murder and harm he has perpetrated against our entire humanity.

The police are considered authorities.

A crazy person killed the people at Ft Hood. He was transferred for behavior, the FBI had been watching him for months, even the Islamic leader at his church didn't find him a wife (I think because he knew the guy was nuts).

You cannot arrest a crazy person until they do something wrong. I remember from college - Psychiatrists as a group have lots of wacky people in their mists.

R.Lee-1218992...The only thing you play is yourself. IF you even HAVE a wife she cant be hot or smart. And the only PUNK on this page is YOU! You make no sense, all you can do is make dumba$$ comments because you are stupid! You cant argue anything with that pea brain (if you have more than a brain stem) of yours so you act like an idiot. Go back to your corner and suck your thumb.

Hawaii2

Where is the word TERROR and TERRORISTS in Obama's comments?

He's treating this rampage like it happened in Mayberry.

Obama is asking the American People to have no respect for him as President.

Those words are reserved for people that don't agree with Obama, and Pres Pelosi's agendas! Well Obama has never served this country, said he was not proud of this country(until he won the election, how quaint) And anyone is surprised that he states, don't read anything into it.Why shouldn't we question it, and see that he screamed Allah Akbar (Allah is the greatest), he is a P.O.S., he murdered innocent soldiers in a cowardly fashion, looks like terrorism to me! Hang the S.O.A.B.

Semper Fi

YES WE CAN = Mantra for the brain dead!!!!

Until people wake up and see this is a rage brought on by islamic extreme, and NOT some mental illness, the world is in peril.

Or is there some freak out there that wants to say that all terrorists are mentally ill and should be forgiven? FU if you do.

Stop the damned "political correctness", because it is as phony as these religions.

I guess his yelling "Allah akbah" influenced their thinking he was a Muslim fanatic.

It would have been better if he just soaked himself in gasoline and lit a match. I guess that's an old one though? Why is it that everyone with a cause like this has to take a bunch of innocents with them? Who the heck is "Allah akbah"? Being a shrink, he should have known whose strings to pull to get him out. Nobody wants a whacko in combat. Well, maybe a couple would be OK.

this guy was a coward and a puxxy he had no right to even stand beside our brave men and women.

As I said in my post above, you can develop PTSD without ever being on the front lines. As the NYT story says from info from the Major's family, this guy was tormented throughout most of his career for being a muslim. Then, he's sitting there every day treating returning soldiers for their PTSD and listening to their horror stories. After several years of that, it appears that MAYBE with the combination of his torments and the buildup of the stress of his work, he broke.

What I haven't seen much in the news about are the 14 soldiers at Ft. Collins and the 11 soldiers killed there.....again apparently related to PTSD and lack of psychiatric help on that base. I'm afraid we are going to see a lot more of this in the coming months/years if we don't get our military out of those two war zones. Afghanistan is a 35 year old civil war. We really shouldn't be involved in that civil war. But our "need" to defeat the Al Qaida terrorists drug us into that local war and may get us into further trouble in Pakistan. Will that "need" also soon have us in another war front in Somalia? Where else will we go? Europe? Other parts of Asia? Even right here in the US (which is the ONLY place we should be defending our country)?

Ironic, he whined because he was tormented for being a muslim. Now look what he's just done to all his muslim brethren in the military. Do you think any muslim in the military will be looked at the same way again? He's the new poster boy for muslim prejudice.

seems that a muslem in our military not wanting to go to a muslem country to fight muslem militants is an extremist. cant there be some kind of control of the muslims entering our military. then we ask them to fight their own people. stupidity

Why should a muslim in the U.S. military not be asked to fight muslim exremists? There are thousands in the Iraqi and Afghan military that are fighting muslim exremists. If they are sincere, then they would welcome the opportunity to put down exremists and restore the muslim religion to those who seek peace. The honorable alternative is for a muslim to refuse deployment and accept the consequences.

There are pictures on the Web Site's of Hasan in his traditional Religious garb.

Look it up, the story and pictures are very tellling. It was going on for a long time. He in communication with other Terrorists, through his e-mails.

It is the Military who should have taken some responsibility and given him a Dishonorable Discharge.

Let's not jump to any conclusions!!!!!

Ebeneezer:

All acts of massacreing people are acts of Terrorism.

It is Terrorism.

"Misread the Situation" and "Don't Jump to Any Conclusions", will be the catch phrases for Pres. Obama's Presidency.

BULL$H*T on PTSD!! BULL$H*T ON pre-deployment stress! Major Hasan decided to wage his own Jihad and 12 of our heroes are dead because of it!! He needs to be tried and fried!! It's really that simple. Our intelligence agencies need to get hot and find who (besides whoever their geniuses that allowed 6 months of Jihad postings without any action) may have assisted him in carrying out this massacre.

I really don't get this President.

His first response to this tragedy is to ramble on for 3 minutes about some stupid conference he was attending. He finally gets around to saying absolutely nothing we don't already know.

When I watched the news conference, I honestly thought he was either drunk, or that they turned on the cameras by mistake.

And now his "thoughtful" response is don't jump to conclusions.

Don't worry Mr President, we won't do anything like saying the Police acted stupidly, before we have all the facts.

Paul:

Have you ever heard of not being in touch with reality. Our President loves euphoria and the Garden of Eden.

The Majority voted for a Prince. They have no Power.

Hans

Reports I've read indicate this guy should have been tagged a long time ago because of his lack of skills as a Psychiatrist- as so often happens, everyone who wanted to kick his ass out stopped because they were afraid they'd be called a racist, all reports seem to confirm he was incompetent- he equated suicide bombers as equal to a soldier falling on a grenade to save his buddies-

can you believe that? The guy is in his late 30's and not married. A video of him 7 hours before his shooting spree shows him ordering hashbrowns in a 7/11- dressed in his muslim garb- these shootings were pre-meditated- he had two guns- a lot of ammo and supposedly shouted the Allah is great BS.

The moron picked the wrong state to kill people- Ron White seems proud that when other states are trying to stop the death penalty Texas has put in a speed line - I don't normally favor the death penalty but in this case- give him the needle tomorrow.

Anti Trust Proponent, concerning...

"What I haven't seen much in the news about are the 14 soldiers at Ft. Collins and the 11 soldiers killed there.....again apparently related to PTSD and lack of psychiatric help on that base"

With a military mental health professional of the likes of Dr. Nidal Malik Hasan providing PTSD treatment for our returning troops at Walter Reed, maybe you could find some answers in that. He certainly didn't have the desire to "serve and protect" those entrusted to his care...thats apparent, if nothing else. Do not try to excuse this coward's murdering attack with a PTSD diagnosis. It is an insult to those who truly suffer with this condition...and this monster has only created more victims who will find it very difficult to overcome this trauma.

Do not jump to conclusions;

What conclusion does anyone draw from, a Muslim fanatic,lists his bio as Palestinian (even thu born in the U.S.) praises GOD as he is killing the infidels, wants not to be deployed where his fellow Muslims are fighting, and his allegiance is to his Muslim brothers, not to the country that educated him, gave him every opportunity, promoted him to a field officer; now we must examine what his motives are, if you don't know , then I fell sorry for you!

Do not jump to conclusions;

What conclusion does anyone draw from, a Muslim fanatic,lists his bio as Palestinian (even thu born in the U.S.) praises GOD as he is killing the infidels, wants not to be deployed where his fellow Muslims are fighting, and his allegiance is to his Muslim brothers, not to the country that educated him, gave him every opportunity, promoted him to a field officer; now we must examine what his motives are, if you don't know , then I fell sorry for you!

Paul F

I really don't get this President.

His first response to this tragedy is to ramble on for 3 minutes about some stupid conference he was attending. He finally gets around to saying absolutely nothing we don't already know.

When I watched the news conference, I honestly thought he was either drunk, or that they turned on the cameras by mistake.

And now his "thoughtful" response is don't jump to conclusions.

A Majority of people voted in this Imbecile of a man, one that NEVER served anywhere, never had to see his friends blown to bits, or have to kill as many people as possible, so you might live to see your family again. But he wasn't happy with us arrogant, Americans, but then he won over the sheeple, and all was forgiven, he was now PROUD to lead our country, of fine men, and women that joined our armed forces with the belief they were doing the right thing for their country! Then when some P.O.S. murdered 13 of our finest what does this IMBECILE say ? Don't jump to any conclusions. You DO NOT deserve to lead this country, no matter how many you manged to BS. Do America a favor coward, go back to Chicago! Let someone that actually cares for our people in uniform lead, you are not worthy!

Semper Fi

YES WE CAN = Mantra for the brain dead!!!

You mean that you don't think that they will find that his rampage was totally justified and he was of perfectly sound mind and had never once considered another act such as this? I think you just might be right - he might actually be a bad guy, or at least a very disturbed one.

I know this is going to sound like a racist comment, so I apologize ahead of time. But the first words out of my mouth when I heard about this horrific event was "I hope this doesn't turn out to be some elaborate infiltration plot."

I hope they get to the bottom of this quickly (but thoroughly) for the sake of the families who lost loved ones.

Krissy, what is racist about an infiltration plot? What's sad is you said nothing that could be construed as racist but yet you apologize for it. I'm actually getting sick of people pulling out the race card when a majority of terrorist acts are perpetrated my Arab Muslims. Like someone commented before. Pit bulls are just dogs but due to the number and ferocity of pit bull attacks they are looked at differently from say Golden Retrievers or Labs.

from Obama in article: "We don't know all the answers yet. And I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts," Obama said in a Rose Garden statement otherwise devoted to the economy.

I assume Obama means don't jump to conclusions without info like he himself did in the Professor Gates episode, when he acted stupidly by saying the police acted stupidly. 

Svenolafson -

I guess I felt guilty that I jumped to that conclusion because he has a muslim name. But I digress. Look who we elected for president.

He's not disturbed. He's just animating jihad, fulfilling the commandments of koran.

I wish people would stop apologizing for the stupidity and the insanity of Hussein. I hate to say it but savage was right, "Liberalism is a mental disorder."

LOL Skippy!! Your hate for our president is making you STUPID, but then, you likely always were......

Krissy, going forward I will not feel guilty about any of my conclusions in regards to Muslims.

krissy,
We know who we elected for President. I'm just waiting for that guy to show up.

Made their bed, Monterey Park, CA -

We have all been made to look like idiots.

Skip52, it looks like momma2rudedog is proving your point.

Do believe I hear he had run ins with the Law and may have been jailed. Will check it out.

The Media did the initial spin on this story. They were more than careful not to let the name out of the person who was the mass murderer. They would not reveal his name.

Now who in America if they were Caucasian, of of any other race would they protect. It's a white man, it's a black man, it's an Asian, it's a Hispanic, it's a Jew, it's a Christian, then they would shout in their lapel microphones blasting what the name is of the murderer.

Why do the Muslims and Islamists get special protection from the media.

What is there to be afraid of? Hasan was an American citizen.

The media are cowards.

All of my prayers, go to the Families of the fallen soldiers(how about saying something like that Oblahblah?) Never mind it doesn't fit your campaign schedule, how silly of us Americans huh? How about 5 minutes of silence, for our fallen brothers, and sisters!

Semper Fi

YES WE CAN = Mantra for the brain dead!!!!

REALLY! WOW!..so you mean to tell me 911, ya know 11SEPT2009 has nothing to do with us being in afghanistan! REALLY!

syco Can you read or did you post just happen to follow after the one above?

You meant 2001, not 2009 right?

ya know 11SEPT2009 has nothing to do with us being in afghanistan!

What happen on September 11, 2009?

I'm Confucius.

Dan,

It only took you nine years to forget what happened in New York, DC, and Pennsylvania? Granted we are oil dependent but our being in Afghanistan is absolutely righteous! That was the country that allowed the cowards safe harbor to train and plan the attacks! Cowardly actions seem to be the calling card of these religious militants! Allahu Akbar indeed, I wonder what reward/use Allah has for cowards?

Energy dependence is the decisive issue for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Dan, please let the rest of the world know exactly what energy source you've discovered in Afghanistan. I didn't know that we could run our automobiles on opium, but perhaps you've tried.

I believe many have missed Dan's point. As far as 911 goes, we didn't have to put people on the ground in Afghanistan. We could have bombed them into the stone age..."Oh, wait, they were already in the stone age"! OK, we could have just bombed the crap out of them. Let's face it, we aren't there to fix the country. It's not fixable! We don't need to put troops on the ground unless we are going to war. The invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq were not wars no more than the Korean or Vietnam "wars". Yet, we send our people in to be cops. It's ridiculous for the US to be the cops of the world. It is not our right or business to do this.

Another point about 911 that most seem to miss is that most of the terrorists on those planes were from Saudi Arabia. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself about this one, but we went to the wrong country. You could almost guarantee that the terrorist camps in Afghanistan were funded by Saudi money whether the Saudi government was directly involved or not.

The people leading our country are foolish and indecisive and it's getting Americans killed for no justifiable reason. We either send a massive amount of troops over there or we get the hell out. Obama doesn't know what he is doing and the rest of our government doesn't have the brain power or nuts to do what needs to be done. We need some real superstars in our government...no more of this kid stuff...no more people who make bad decisions on where to send our troops and how to use them.

Maybe the real change has to happen with the American people. One thing is for sure, the American people had a massive brain fart when they voted this guy in. He has no problem making decisions on who to entertain at the Whitehouse, but he can't make a decision on how to help and protect our troops.

Protect our troops from their enemies and protect them from infiltrators! Do your frigging job already! If you can't, then get out!

You know, if god (Allah) is so great, than why did Allah allow foreign troops to invade Islamic countries. One may construe that if Allah is as great as the Islamics say Allah is, then Allah sent us there to kill those Allah believes are not worthy. In any case, it seems Allah is not happy with Allah's followers. I would say that it is obvious that Allah is not happy with Islamics indiscriminant killing of innocent people and it's only a matter of time before Allah sends foreign troops to all Islamic countries, be it Allah's will.

Of course Allah is pleased. After all hate is preached in his name and the koran is a book of hate. Just read it for yourself.

sycopatriot, you spelled your nic wrong....it should be PSYCHOpatriot......

Bloggerich, I hope you had enough sense to complain when BUSH PUT THE US IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS MESS!! Obama is a thinking person, unlike his predecessor, and I, for one, am glad to see a president who actually THINKS BEFORE HE ACTS, but then, I guess that idea makes no sense to someone like you.

You Sir are an Idiot. My dad served in Nam and yes that was a war. And yes we are at War.

Momma - did you read and comprehend what I stated? What you stated to me makes no sense based on what I said. Additionally, how do you think Obama is a "thinking" man? He was never a good candidate for the presidency and he, so far has not been a good president. Neither was Bush, but you assumed I was a Bush fan.

TX - Also, Vietnam wasn't a war, it was a police action. Plenty of my family served in Vietnam and Korea and they never thought it was a real war. In fact, my Grandfather and Uncle served in WWII and Korea and they believed that Vietnam was not a true war.

One thing is for sure, this present action is not a war and it never was.

Another point for Momma, is that if this turns out to be a terrorist attack, it will be the first on American soil since 911. Obviously something the Obama team will want to cover up.

Dan:

At that time Goldwater was considered a real Radical for the Republican Party.

People were really afraid of his stark plans for the US.

There is NO such thing as Allah, it is a fictitious lie/disease, designed to control the people as a mob. And it is a very violent, killing, no... massacring pit of snakes that populate this planet.

Whether he was born here (he was) or not, will not be an issue along with a few others. He has an arabic name and is of the Islamic faith, this will be the overriding factor in any public opinions, period! He has already been pre-judged by many if not the majority.

What if one of the soldiers he killed was messing with his wife and Husan just couldn't stop shooting? What if his wife told him that morning she was leaving and getting a divorce? What if he woke up with a headache??? This is no time to be playing "what if." We need to get the real facts.

Jesus @!$%#ing Christ! I cannot believe someone is trying to rationalize this stupidity by stating he may have been picked on at work. Give me a break, I was a career military man and I never shot anyone because he or she was picking on me.

Steve .. What If .. the world were flat ... What If ... the sky was falling ... What If ... 'poor' Hasan was harrassed in elementary school, junior high, high school and the military ... he was still defective!

In general, the military doctors are not nearly as strict as the men and women who go out and fight everyday. They are more lax in discipline, but with good reason. In the military there are rules set in place to protect someone who has filed grievance against another. Right now this is all just speculation and does no good. I think after the investigation we will know the reason this man did this.

The kind of harrassment that his idiot cousin said he was going through does not exist. Especially not to an officer and in a medical unit. Someone posted, yesterday I think, and it makes a lot of sense now that I've been able to sleep on it. We are born and raised by our parents and if we are lucky we are instilled with morals. A majority of Americans were raised with a Judeao-Christian belief system. In this system suicide is considered a sin and you will burn in hell if you commit it. Murder is also a sin. Now when you're talking about the "peaceful" religion of Islam if you commit suicide in the name of Allah and take a bunch of non-believers (infidels) with you you are rewarded in heaven. I really don't want to hear "that's not what the Koran says" or "the Koran is beign taken out of context". The simple reality is that if someone is unstable enough to do what this MF did, rationalizing these acts becomes a whole lot easier if you are a follower of the "religion of peace". We should take a look at oulawing Islam in the US. Germany tried to outlaw Scientology and they weren't killing anybody, why can't we outlaw it as a subversive political movement? You don't like it tough. Either convert to Christianity, Judism, Hinduism, or Athiesm or get on the next plane or boat out of here. I think we've been tolerant enough for long enough.

I never seek to blame the victims; however, Steve makes a good point here about our society in general. If we continue to see ourselves as "apart from" those "other people" who don't believe and act as we do, and if we actively seek to subjugate those peoples we deem undesirable we will continue to be viewed as a bully on the school yard of life. Bullies are easy targets for those who feel disenfranchised and cut out from the herd. Those of us who briddle at the suggestion that we need to "understand" rather than just "defend" our singular point of view need to understand that that they are part of the battle and are spoiling for more fighting and more conflict and more division and polarization. We've always done things this way and nothing has ever changed. So long as we collectively believe in being a society of warriors we will reap the rewards of war.

I don't promote being passive without design. We need an intelligent approach toward our defense. We need to define WHAT and WHO the enemy really is. Is the enemy an individual? Is the enemy a group of individuals? Is the enemy a cultural philosophy? If we kill an individual we will most likely remove our advisory. If we kill a group of individuals our conflict is less likely to be terminated. If we seek to "kill" a cultural philosophy or religion we are only adding gasoline to the fire. There will be no resolution and no lasting peace. So what options remain on the table? Maybe we should, "Give Peace a Chance". Regardless how many photo opp banners we wave in the air about our "mission accomplished", we may never actually accomplish and protect a lasting peace until we seriously look at what it will take to secure and promote that objective.

Well spoken 'pacifist' Cook .. please just get out of the way ..go hide behind a rock .. better yet .. hide behind John Lennon's tombstone .. let others protect your butt.

This is a discussion thread. There was no need to attack Steve or anyone else providing what they believe as a "possible theory". Yes, there is no justification for this man's actions but there was obviously a trigger in which some would like to find out. Don't vent your anger out on someone else.

RangerGus, why don't you take your pride and arrogance some place else. Just because John Cook-401250 takes a different approach to confrontation doesn't mean you should insult him. Your post makes our brave men and women seem nothing but an arrogant group who is willing to put down anyone with a different viewpoint than theirs, especially those whom they protect. Surely that isn't the case, no?

A murderer is still a murderer and everyone is responsible for their own actions.

One of the victims was a pregnant gal that just came back from Iraq, she was from Chicago. Don't expect our president to address this much, like yesterday when this "tragedy" was a side note in his speech, with no believable emotion. He has hung our military out to dry, nor does he understand their way of life. As others have posted here, there are enemies within our own country. More will come out on this guy, unless our great media covers it up.

All the what ifs - this guy is not a victim, he is a murderous criminal.

I agree cpw777, and our "great president" doesnt want us to jump to conclusions why?? probably because his lips are still attached to the arses of the people he's trying to rationalize with. We SHOULD jump to conclusion, or at least be proactive, I heard on the radio this morning they saw signs this guy was losing it!

Agreed. Don't watch what Obama says, watch what he does or doesn't do.

How sad! You are drinking koolaid.

Sven, If you look at history, you will understand that ALL organized religions have very bloody histories, but NONE as bloody as Christianity. including Islam. Blaming the behaviors of this individual on his religious orientation is as logical as blaming Christianity for the acts of Hitler (it was a myth that he was atheist). All religions can be, and often are, twisted into supporting what can only be described as "evil" behavior.

Well said John Cook! I totally agree with you. A very intelligent and rational approach.

Radical Islam is a factor in this event period. Mental illness may very well be,too. The bottom line is Maj. Hasan is responsible for his actions. I find it very hard to buy the "picked on" bull@!$%#. A Major or even Captain in the U.S. Army "picked on"?? Not very likely. Try and spin it all you want but we've just experienced another terrorist attack on our home soil. Yes it was one of our own and yes he may have been a "lone wolf". But he was definitely influenced by radical Islam and there's no spin that will change that. Does that mean we should kick all Muslims out of the U.S. and U.S. Army? Of course not. But does it mean we damn well better keep an out for Jihadist activities including the internet ones that forecast this attack six months in advance? Hell Yes!!

momma2rudedog

Bush did not put us in this war, the Muslim terrorists did. If Bush hadn't declared war, I think many Americans would have done that on their own. That's called being a patriot. As far as Obama being a thinking president? It's called "procrastination or lying." The first thing he was going to do as president was pull everyone out of the middle east. Since he didn't, what does that make him? He is no patriot. He only does whats best for him and his agenda.

Have you seen the half-assed way he salutes the soldiers? Patronizing and humiliating it is. He should be ashamed. But then as an elitist, he probably doesn't feel shame. Only pride in himself.

Steve:

What if's don't do anyone any good. That is speculation.

The truth will come out.

What if Hasan did an honor killing in his own family, and what if he ran over his daughter with his own car killing her.

The old Koran teachings are of violence and revenge. That is what this religion is all about. They go undercover from the writings of the Koran to murder all Westerners, and their own families. Life has no value.

In the original writings of the Koran, it is written that when you die a martyr's death you will be greeted in heaven with 72 grapes. Not 72 virgins. A grave misinterpretation. Pretty funny when you think about it.

"Christoph Luxenberg's book, Die Syro-Aramaische Lesart des Koran, available only in German, came out just over a year ago, but has already had an enthusiastic reception, particularly among those scholars with a knowledge of several Semitic languages at Princeton, Yale, Berlin, Potsdam, Erlangen, Aix-en-Provence, and the Oriental Institute in Beirut.

Luxenberg tries to show that many obscurities of the Koran disappear if we read certain words as being Syriac and not Arabic. We cannot go into the technical details of his methodology but it allows Luxenberg, to the probable horror of all Muslim males dreaming of sexual bliss in the Muslim hereafter, to conjure away the wide-eyed houris promised to the faithful in suras XLIV.54; LII.20, LV.72, and LVI.22. Luxenberg 's new analysis, leaning on the Hymns of Ephrem the Syrian, yields "white raisins" of "crystal clarity" rather than doe-eyed, and ever willing virgins - the houris. Luxenberg claims that the context makes it clear that it is food and drink that is being offerred, and not unsullied maidens or houris".

Funny, we were just having the same conversation in my office. Several people here went to Va. Tech.

But Bob, this man was not an MP. MPs train all the time-a doctor may qualify once a year on the range.

Plus, it's one thing to shoot at paper targets and an other shooting people-and, a defensive posture would be to turn sideways to the shooter making the target smaller and more difficult to hit. These soldiers would have done that if they were exposed. Others would have found cover.

Bouncer, agreed, but you don't have to be an MP to train on a range.

And according to some of the stories released this morning, some of the injuries/deaths MAY have actually been caused by "friendly fire." In other words, some of the shots fired by the "authorities" may have been the cause of the wounds. Remember that originally, it was thought that Hasan was one of the "victims." Maybe the later responders (not the first responder who was wounded in firing at Hasan) didn't know which person firing was actually the "shooter(s)"? How well were all of the "responders" clearly identified by their uniforms? As the base commander said in his late night report, the soldiers are NOT normally armed on base unless they are part of the MP or in training exercises, and that was especially true in the Readiness Center.

Yep, blame the good guys. It's all the fault of those who got in the line of fire.

Was the school shooting at Columbine a Terrorist Act?

Hawaii2

Was the school shooting at Columbine a Terrorist Act?

Yes!

Thye couldn't do that because the ACLU and Hussein would never allow it.

If they don't I would pay good money to watch it. That guy needs to be tortured first then shot several times before being shot in the head....yes that is how I feel. I was watching Changeling and I loved the part where the child rapist and killer was walking up to the platform and he was crying like a baby and how he wished someone would prayed for him. I wanted to shout no prayers will keep you from hell. Just like this looser. Does the military hang people now a days. Maybe we could send him to Gitmo and have him tortured! Yes, I do sleep well at night. Because I am being protected by the finest soldiers in the world. GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!

Bill & ToA:

Try & chill a little, guys-- that's not "PC", it's standard legal description for anyone/everyone who hasn't been to trial yet Hell, bank robbers who are videotaped pulling the heist are officially/legally 'suspects' and 'alleged' until they get their day in court. Everybody knows they're bank robbers, just like everybody knows he's the murderer, but since our system is "innocent until PROVEN guilty", the correct terminology is 'suspect' & 'alleged'.

You just saved me from posting up a very similar comment.

Swamiijim:

Innocent until proven guilty is a great concept, except when mass murder occurs and there are scores of witnesses. There is no "innocent until proven guity" applicable. The murderer has given up the right to that defense when he or she pulls the trigger. Did the victims have a choice or a voice in this persons decision? No, they lost their life.

.

Hello, The FBI, the Army, any Texas Officials that may have some kind of jurisdiction for whatever obscure reason there may be, PROBABLY haven't even finished picking up brass and evidence bags.

Over three hundred people in there mostly wearing the same clothes.  A heck of a "target rich" environment.  Confusion with what you saw????  ya think?

Instead of letting the 24/7 news bias fuel our speculation,  could maybe let the guy be the suspect, or alleged, or what for at least 24 hours????????

Now, if and/or when a suspect is a charged, and is a member of the US Army,  I would hope that they would procede with actions under the UCMJ.

They have no guts. Just look at their handling of Hussein and the liberals - yellow journalism.

If Hasan isn't tried in a War Criminal Tribune, he will be tried in Texas.

You know what that means? The Death Penalty, and it will come quickly for this murderer. This state does not wait for years to accomplish the end result.

Goodbye Hasan. Have a nice life in heaven with Allah, the 75 virgins (birds) and eating Pork. Execution style Death. Just what you gave the other innocent victims.

HALLELUJAH!!! What BS!

A religious fanatic is a religious fanatic. Same s***, different wrapper. I don't care if you are a right wing Christian conservative who screams about Jesus all day long or a Muslim. Religious fanaticism has killed more people in history than any political disagreements. People need to "live and let live". I'm sick to death of different religions, including Christians, trying to shove their beliefs down everybody's throat and believing that they have all the answers on how to get to heaven. Believe whatever you want, but leave everybody else alone!

Judy...what Christian is trying to shove their beliefs down your throat? Where do you live and have you contacted the authorities? You must be dizzy from listening to people scream about Jesus all day...does this happen at your work place and have you contacted Human Resources? How about the ACLU?...you can contact them online. You must be scared of all those Christians who are are not allowing you to live and let live. You'd think there's no seperation of Church and State in this country and we aren't a secular nation!

Judy...what Christian is trying to shove their beliefs down your throat? Where do you live and have you contacted the authorities? You must be dizzy from listening to people scream about Jesus all day...does this happen at your work place and have you contacted Human Resources? How about the ACLU?...you can contact them online. You must be scared all of all those Christians who are are not allowing you to live and let live. You'd think there's no seperation of Church and State in this country and we aren't a secular nation!

All you have to do is to look at the whole abortion issue, gay rights issue, the past KKK activities, etc. and you have your answer to how "christianity" tries to force itself down other's throats. There are too many fanatics in the 38,000+ denominations in this country, each battling each other over the validity of their "faith."

Judy, here's a test for you. I've got two guys over there in big winter jackets. One has a sign around his neck that states he is a Christian. The other guy has got a sign around his neck saying he's a Muslim. These signs are true. One of them is going to blow himself up. Go stand next to the guy who isn't. Now look at the sign. What does it say?

Again, anti-trust.. I will advise you as I advised Judy...all the Chrisitans who are trampling on your freedoms must be rounded up. Have you called the authorities or contacted a lawyer? You're ancestors were accosted by the KKK? Yikes. You don't have access to abortion, what? There's a clinic near me that has women going in and out all day as if they were giving away free designer bags. You don't have access to Civil Unions for you and your partner? I'm so glad I haven't come in contact with these maurading, battling Christian sects that force beliefs down one's throat. Where is this part of the U.S.? Please let me know...I'm scared.

You are missing my point. I am not knocking Christianity. As for who is trying to shove Christian beliefs down my throat, see "antitrustopponent" above. You have the extreme far right trying to legislate their religious beliefs (prayer in school, anti-choice, gay marriage, on and on) on everybody. When you talk to these people one-on-one, it all boils down to "the Bible says...." I have had people at my front door wanting to talk to me about how I can be "saved". I have had neighbors pressure me to go to their church. It is rampant. I am not a heathen, but I am sick of these people thinking they have to "testify" and quoting scripture if you disagree with their views. I am not saying these are not good people. I just remember when religion was kept private and you worshipped the way you wanted to, and ministers, priests, pastors, etc. did not talk politics from the pulpit and try to get people to vote a certain way so that they could elect like-thinking individuals and change the laws, etc. to conform to their belief system. The irony is that the same people who try to legislate their own religious views are the ones who scream about government staying out of people's lives. How more personal can you get than butting your views into what a woman talks to her doctor about? Who sleeps with who or who marries who? If that isn't government intrusion into people's private lives, then I don't know what is! Sorry. You can think what you want of me, but I still say that people need to keep government and religion separate. I am not the only person who feels this way. If the Republican party wants to succeed, they better get these fanatics under control. I used to be a Republican but left the party when it was hijacked by the extreme religious right. As I said before, I don't care what your religion is. A fanatic is a fanatic.

By the way, I'm white, straight, married 42 years to the same man, and the grandmother of 3. I'm not some nut. I believe that more people think the way I do than you would imagine. It has just gotten to the point that if you say something, you have people jumping down your throat as if you are some kind of heathen. Just look at the posts above.

Go, Judy, GO! I couldn't agree more and couldn't have written it more succinctly. Isn't it ironic how one religion that is "RIGHT" thinks that religion has the "RIGHT" to tell EEE'RBODY WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO DO IT??? A bunch of imperfect people who following the musings of an imperfect person walking about in a robe with tassels and calling himself "Pastor"???

We talk about heretical and fanatical belief systems, but leave out one of the most notorious in all of HISTORY for using violence to force conversion in the name of God. That religion would be Christianity. It's a fact that the days of the Spanish Inquisition style/approach are over and we all know Christianity has moved on from it's categorically violent past. That said, how many organizations and religious sects hide behind Christianity, or as I like to call it "religiosity", to further a blanket agenda that covers everything from racism to selective morality FOR EVERYONE???

Politics from the pulpit is a "No-No", and yet how many "reverends" and "priests" are ALL up in the Whitehouse on on The Hill day in and day out???

For the record, I believe in Christ Jesus and I read and follow Bible counsel. That said, I simply CANNOT support the marriage of church and state in ANY form, and further don't want ANYONE to try to impose their own belief systems and doctrines on me or mine. EEE'RBODY got a take on this scripture or that scripture, and we have all these Christian "authors" trying to do the hurry up offense to bring about the Apocolypse NOW!

It's really very sad. Sometimes I wonder what God thinks of those who TRY to speak for HIM??? "No one know the date nor time, not even the Son. Only the FATHER knows. . ."!!!!

By the way, I'm American born, caucasian, female, 49 and married 10 years to the same man. I also have 3 WONDERFUL step-sons. I'm not some nut, and I believe that MANY, MANY people would like to live a life of peace, security and freedom to believe or not believe, as the case may be.

Judy, why are you using this vine to blather about Christians ramming their religion down your throat? I can see if they also pulled out a gun and pointed it at your head you would have an argument that would follow the discussion here. Then you bring up Republicans. WTF? Do you even have a clue?

Sorry about the sarcasm Judy...only I really don't come in contact with any of the scenarios you've mentioned. Once in a while a Jehovah's witness may come to my door. I live in the NorthEast...many differnt people. As I mentioned to anti, I live near an abortion clinic that's so busy you'd think they were giving away free money. I haven't heard of a prayer in school issue in years. Only that some Christian groups have tried to assemble on school grounds after school and have not been allowed and some sports teams that pray before games and that's controversial as well. Homosexuals enjoy Civil Unions and if it's the word marriage they are looking for...it's only a matter of time before that happens. I enjoy a freedom in this country that I see being threatened not by any Christian sect, but by governmental interference. I completely agree with the seperation of Church and state...which is why comparing Christians to Fundamentalist Muslims is so off the mark. In Middle Eastern countries, Islam is the gov't. Try living that life as a female, homosexual, free thinker, atheist, agnostic or Christian.

People need to "live and let live". I'm sick to death of different religions, including Christians, trying to shove their beliefs down everybody's throat and believing that they have all the answers on how to get to heaven. Believe whatever you want, but leave everybody else alone!

That's fine, and when a Christian tries to shove something down your throat the worst you get is a knock on the door during the Super Bowl. A Muslim will slit your throat or strap on a bomb and kill your whole family. Sorry, but your "can't we all just get along" PC BS is just sticking your head in the sand and avoiding the reality of Muslim beliefs.

smp65, you must not was Fox News very much. You might be interested to know that in a recent Gallup Poll, Mr. Huckabee is at the top of the list of potential Republican Presidential candidates in 2012. Do you know that Mr. Huckabee is a "Reverend" or, at least, a licensed pastor in some aspect of Christian religion? It's one thing to GO to church, it's quite another to PREACH at the church AND serve as Commander in Chief, I would think. There would be an inherent conflict of interest, and it their WEREN'T, I would be inclined to eat my own right foot.

For the record, John Ashcroft of the George W. Bush administration era, was a licensed and certified Assembly of God pastor. That would be an EVANGELICAL pastor, just in case you want to know.

If you can't comprehend the fact that religious agenda's are being stuffed into every single nook and cranny of every single aspect of our government, including our policy in the Middle East, you might want to take a walk down Fact Lane.

Please go back and read up on your history.  This country was not founded BASED on Christianity.  The greatest thing was that the founding fathers understood the need for the separation of Church and State.  They saw what a government controlled by religion would become and made that critical point.  Just look back in history and even current times of governments that follow religion, Iran, Britain, etc.....they all end up becoming fanatical and doing horrible things to maintain power.

This whole push by the ULTRA right wing conservatives to "make this nation back into the Christian nation it once was" is fake, a lie, and terribly wrong.  That's the last thing you want...and even the founding fathers knew it.

asknreceive...Again, where in the he11 do you people live? Have you heard of free will? Do you know you have the freedon th leave a congregation that is ramming ideas you find offensive? You also have the right to tell people who are preaching at you to get away from you and to contact the authorities if they don't. You have the right to vote in canidates who espouse your views. You also have the right to get on the internet and hijack a conversation about a Muslim soldier who may or may not have killed fellow soldiers in the name of Allah to blast Christians.

smp65...you just keep missing the point. I give up.

smp65, you also have the right to impose YOUR belief systems onto anyone reading the Newsvine, and have taken the time to do it, so what is the difference?

By the way, I DO vote for candidates that are SUPPOSED to uphold the Constitution with respect to Freedom of Religion or NO RELIGION. Apparently, there are more of YOU than there are of US who actually BELIEVE in that specific freedom!

Like kelli. . .stated above, there is a very good reason the founding father's agreed on the issue of "freedoms" as it related to religion, and why there was a specific mandate for separation of church and state. It was the tyranny imposed by the relationship of church and state in England, under the Church of England, from which they fled! Trust me. . you do NOT want to go back to the days when religiosity ruled governmental policy. You might just find it is YOUR specific sect that comes under unfair and harsh scrutiny!

I stated previously that I don't go to brick or wood boxes with religious symbols attached to their front doors or roofs, and I don't subject myself to the opinions of any one or more imperfect men/women who claim to be oracles and have special insights that I'M, supposedly, just not able to understand, without the input of the self-professed oracle, that is. I just don't believe that "certain people" KNOW IT ALL!

As to calling the cops on people who are walking door to door trying to spread their version of "the truth", I would prefer that they would respect MY rights, as opposed to my having to have my rights enforced by law! I just cannot bring myself to be that mean-spirited, so I treat them respectfully when they do come around. One would THINK that after a number of years of hearing "No thank you", they would get the message that I'm not interested. But NO! Oh well! Guess I can hold onto hope, in lieu of expecting any consideration from people who THINK they know what's best for ME, because they THINK they know more than me and what's best for me.

TRUST me. . if I thought I needed spiritual help, I WOULD GO GET IT! For anyone on this Newsvine who might be worried enough about MY spirituality to spend their precious time trying to convert me on my own front porch, DON'T CALL ME, I'LL CALL YOU!

Much like Judy, I've lost interest in the debate. You don't "get it". That's okay. . .to each his/her own. I do hope you have a very blessed and enjoyable day.

keiichimorisato,

"Please go back and read up on your history. This country was not founded BASED on Christianity. The greatest thing was that the founding fathers understood the need for the separation of Church and State."

You should probably take your own advice. This country's founding was based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Denial of this is not an argument nor a river in Egypt. The Founding Fathers (capitalized) may have understood religion's place in the public square but you definitely don't. It appears to be one of the symptoms of the intellectually lazy to regurgitate the separation of church and state pabulum. Here's what the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Pretty simple actually.

Okay...one more try. The point I was TRYING to make is that the people on this vine keep talking about fanatical Muslims, etc. My first post was pretty clear, I thought. It is that religious fanaticism coming from any religion, be it Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, etc. is dangerous and a threat to everybody. People need to keep their religions to themselves, worship the way they want to worship (or not), and "live and let live". Can't you see the entire problem in the middle east is religion based? The Jews believe that Isreal is their "promised land" and threw the Palestinians out. Understandably, the Palestinians (who lived there for centuries) are pretty upset about that little thing. Now you have Arabs (Muslims) against Jews and Christians (because we sided with the Jews). YOu even have two different sects of Muslims against each other - the Sheites and the Sunni. It all has to do with who thinks their religion is the right one! Whenever religion slops over into politics, you are going to have big trouble because there is no way to "negotiate" your way out of it. You can't reason your way out because faith is not based on reason. That is why I said that religious fanaticism in whatever form is dangerous. I did not hijack this discussion. Look back at the posts before mine. You will see all kinds of comments about throwing Muslims out of the country, etc. Believe me, I am scared of them too. My son is in the military. That was not my point, though. By the way, I live in the south. I am not going to try to say that the people in the south are not good people. I am just saying that you are slapped in the face with everybody coming to your door or talking about prayer or Jesus or something every day of your life here. It may be different elsewhere, but this is my experience. Before every body in the south gets on their soapbox, I am not saying anything derrogatory about any of you or the south in general. I am simply answering smp65's question.

You are absolutely correct!!!!!

I absolutely agree in the seperation of church and State...where did I say I didn't? Also, don't presume to know my beliefs asknreceive. My belief is freedom and if anyone tries to impose their values or ideology on me...I don't hold back on telling them to back off. Judy, your argument is valid...fanaticism in anything is wrong...religious, ideological,environmental,political, etc. People need to think for themselves, but then you begin to get into the infighting within sects of Muslims, Jews and Christians in the Middle East. What a leap between that mess and our own country.

btw, asknreceive...I don't think anyone cares about your spiritual well being or even brought that up. You in fact, brought up your beliefs in God, the Bible counsel (whatever that is) etc...get over yourself.

syp, you are a very, very angry person. Why is that? We don't know one another, so it has nothing to do with me. What, exactly, is boiling deep inside of you that you aren't dealing with? That's a rhetorical question, so no need to answer me. You don't have to answer to me. You might, however, want to deal with the issue yourself. Anger will eat you up inside, and it is an albatross of gargantuan proportions. Shake it off!

I do believe in God and the Bible, and that is my choice. I also posted that so that you would understand that I am NOT some a-spiritual person with an a-spiritual agenda! My bad for thinking facts would help you understand my point of view.

I won't bother you with relevant facts as to the basis of my posts ever again. On the other hand, you can refuse to read my posts altogether. That might be the better approach since my posts seem to bother you so much.

I'm just sayin. . .

Well said. You have the intelligence to understand. Our forefathers would be proud.

Judy, It is not anti-choice, we like choices, we choice to own guns ( constitutional right) , we choose which church to attend, etc. We are ANTI- ABORTION, which is an act that follows someone that chose to hop in the sack with someone hopefully with the wisdom to know what could result. There again, I support someones choice to have as many bed partners as they fell safe with, but I choose to complain when my tax dollars help some little " bed bug" wipe the slate clean.

Thank you, Judy, for making some very valid points. It appears that some of the people posting in this vine are just too stubborn to actually think critically about the topic, or are totally unable to do so. Perhaps they have never been to the "bible belt" and seen the power of Christianity in action, or perhaps they have been so propagandized not to question this religious orientation that they can never even consider the problems that it causes in our society. In any event, thank you for your valid comments!!

Judy, Sorry, I did leave one part out that I think we can agree on. I really think that expiring a life that was conceived through incest or rape is an area where we need to have common ground. There girls and ladies DID NOT deserve that fate as they were not a willing participant. There is always adoption as an option, but that decision should be between that person and their family.

JB - I won't get into a dialogue with you about what pro-choice actually means or whether abortion is right or wrong. I learned a long time ago that rational discussion about this subject is impossible. I will only say that people who do not believe in abortion have every right not to have one. Nobody puts a gun to anybody's head and makes them have an abortion. On the other hand, there are a lot of people in this country who are willing to put a gun to somebody's head to keep them from having one. I am NOT pro-abortion. I just know enough after living a long life to know that I cannot step into some other woman's life and make a determination about what she can and cannot do. I don't know every woman's circumstances and have enough on my plate just trying to live my own life in a way that enhances my family and community. There are so many reasons that a woman may find abortion to be the only path she can take. Until I have a right to butt my nose into everybody's business, it is her choice to make regardless of my own personal beliefs. I am speaking for myself only. I would not presume to force my beliefs on you or anybody else.

asknreceiver: I'm not angry at all, my post was how I felt and I don't mince words or use platitudes.

Great responce. I do not own a hand gun but do have two " hand-me -down" 22 rifles I have never shot, so the gun refernce was sarcatic at best. I am just a little anal about the term " pro-choice". I will now take the time to wish your family and community all the best in this less than robust economy, sincerly, JB.

Thanks. I appreciate your good wishes. Same back at you. It is nice to know that we can "agree to disagree" without being ugly to each other.

My point that I was making this morning that so many of you have argued or not understood is that we have many "christian" fanatics who are doing the same thing that you are blaming ALL muslims in this country for. It was "christians" who shot the guard at the museum in DC, the doctors at abortion clinics/churches, who bombed abortion clinics, massacred students at schools, etc. Bur we don't condemn ALL christians for being killers now, do we? Stop your profiling is all I'm saying. Christians are no better than muslims. After all, we are over in muslim countries killing muslims right and left just because we want to kill bin Laden and can't find him. We are involving ourselves in local civil wars that we should have no part in. We need to stop and assess WHY these muslim extremists have it out for this country....maybe because we are stripping their countries of their oil reserves and only their leaders are getting wealthy off of it? Maybe because we constantly defend Israel? Maybe because they don't like our "big daddy" approach to forcing our form of "democracy" on their societies and cultures?

It is time we all stop and think about these issues and what OUR roles are in all of this before we condemn all members of a certain race or religion. In this case, this Palestinian is from a muslim family, but not ALL Palestinians are....many are christians, so don't be so rash in condemning all Palestinians.

Sven:

You are more normal than you think. Most of us think we are the only ones who think this way, until we come upon others who have the same side of the "brain". Logic rules.

This really makes me feel for those of the Muslim faith in the military today. They will be closely scrutinized by their fellow troops and the Government.

The problem is that many of those soldiers are very faithful to America and would never do anything to hurt it. Now they have to suffer due to this idiot. A white man robbed a store last night down the street, so am I now to scrutinize every white man I see as a thief?

BOB 15.3

Especially if they're in politics...

Bob, just as the Japanese-Americans and German-Americans were during WWII and throughout the last 50 years. We just don't deal well with "different" people, whether for religious reasons, race, lifestyle, or whatever.

This really makes me feel for those of the Muslim faith in the military today. They will be closely scrutinized by their fellow troops and the Government.

As they should be. Anyone who knows what the Qur'an teaches would realize a TRUE Muslim would never be OK with the west and it's ideology. Wake up people. Islam is not just some "other religion". It is a faith that has made converting the world "under the shadow of the sword" one of it's basic core values.

Bob, et al, I was waiting with dread to hear the name of a suspect or suspects. Is it better that the shooter have an arabic name? What will it "mean" if it's Joe-billy Redneck Whitebread Jr.?

Different threads have brought up things in history, ie the Spanish inquisition, and someone mentioned witch hunts. They were pooh poohed to an extent because that "doesn't have anything to do with this".

Now I don't agree with anti-trust on any number of things but we don't like "different". This situation is ripe for a repeat of history, - whether it's the style of the internment camps, or accusations like those that held sway in the Salem Witch Trials, the rhetoric is scary.

What is the religious background of the 14 soldiers at Ft. Collins being charged with 11 murders on that base? Why hasn't there been much coverage of that? I only heard about that through a commentary last night. I only today read about the 18 suicides at a base in Kentucky so far this year. A friend in Colorado Springs, where Ft. Collins is located, told me today that the local police fear having to confront homeless veterans involved in crimes, because they are much better trained killers than the police are. When you have a growing number of psychologically unstable veterans out on the streets and not getting proper medical care, you have a time bomb on your hands. It is well past time that we start to put more effort in providing better services for our veterans, and that includes psychiatric care. According to some reports our military is at 50% or less of the number of psychiatric staff they should have on our bases here and abroad.

Americans seem never to learn anything from history. History is beginning to repeat itself because we learned little to nothing from Viet Nam, the Gulf War, or the past 8 years of these two wars. Is this going to be an ongoing 20 year cycle? Or will we destroy ourselves and the rest of the world before the next cycle?

anti-trust proponentthe post in kentucky is fort campbell. what suicides are you talking about. im stationed at fort bragg and i have never heard of any suicides, im not trying to say they did not happen, but if you have heard about them shed some light on me about it. As far as ptsd, you should do a little more research on the percentage of soldiers who deploy have ptsd. this soldier, if you can call him that was not crasy in the definition of it, he killed because he was a FANATIC muslim, not just a regular muslim, theres a big difference. he killed because he did not believe in the wars going on in iraq or afghanistan. we are trained killers, with rifles and our TTP's( technics, tactics, and procedures). but as far as hand-to-hand, not as many soldiers, even get to class 1 combatives, as you think.

Maybe you don't know this but soldiers do not carry their weapons on post but if they did do you think he would have been able to do what he did? No, he would have been killed when he shot the first bullet. And as far as for owning guns I own 3 and dare anyone to mess with my rights to have them!

Obviously you have never been on a military base. As a vet I have. Only MPs and contract security have weapons, all others are locked in an armory along with the ammo. One does not simply get a weapon it must be signed out. A christian did not commit this act of cowardice, a life long muslim did. Radical muslims preach death to all infidels (non- muslims) I have not heard a christian say the same about muslims. Until all muslims stand up and denounce these acts of terror, all are by default supporting it and are equally guilty. You seem to be another hate America liberal, it is all our fault if we just show compassion everything will be just great and wonderful. Well it's hard to simply talk when the other side wants to kill you. Wake up. How strange when States pass a gun carry laws crime goes down the NRA must be doing something rigth. Again wake up

I bet when someone saves your a** wheather it's a policeman or just the average Joe you will not be crying about the NRA. It happened on a Military Base where there are weapons everywhere. This guy was a person who did not want to be deployed and have to go and fight people of his own religion. He was screaming Allahs name while he was shooting fellow soldiers. Just another nut job. If it wasn't for the right to bear arms we would still be part of England or speaking German. You should know what your're talking about before you spout off.

Denissr .. If you knew anything about our military bases, you would know that GI's are not allowed to carry loaded weapons on base, only MP's (that's Military Police) and contracted security forces carry loaded weapons on base .. so your condemnation of the NRA is total bullsh_t. If each soldier had been carrying a loaded weapon yesterday .. there is a good chance only 3 or 4 people would have been shot before another soldier shot the killer.

I will not bother to address the rest of your nonsensical message .. but do us all a favor 'O Great Sage' .. crawl back under you pacifist rock .. forever.

That is the same thing my daughter, who is in the army, told me. They don't carry their weapons but you can carry you own personal weapon so he most likely used his own guns

No she does not carry a weapon and she did tell that it couldn't be loaded if you did carry one but my point I was trying to make is that he most likely used his own guns. And he doesn't give a crap about the law so why wouldn't he have carried his own loaded weapon on post

topher, no likely about it. He did use his own guns. He would not be able to check out a weapon like a library book. All weapons are accounted for on base. If a weapon is missing all hell breaks loose.

Denissr-

The shooter was taken down by someone armed. Thats about that. The people standing in line were not armed. You tend not to hear about the shootings stopped by armed citizens, mostly because the shootings don't turn into massive bloodbaths that the media loves to swoon over.

At Appalacian Law school a student walked into a staff building and shot two of his professors. As he left the building headed towards the lecture halls he was stopped by two students who had heard the shots and armed themselves. Hardly anybody had heard of this story, but had he made it to the lecture halls and massacred students you surely would have heard of it and made some snide comment about gun ownership.

In the 1991 a man smashed his car into a Luby's cafeteria and shot 23 people dead. A survivor named Suzzana Hupp had brought a handgun with her, but was forced to leave it in her car due to state laws. Instead of having a chance to defend herself, she had to watch while her parents were gunned down.

There is no reason why someone with no history of mental health issues or criminal behavior should not be able to carry a concealed weapon. Personally I choose not to, as I don't feel it is necessary for me at this time (plus sitting down with a pistol in your wasteband is super uncomfortable). But just because I choose not to carry a weapon does not mean that I am going to try to make that decission for other law abiding citizens. When I walk into a crowded area I HOPE that there are several decent people packing pistols, to make up for any criminals that are surely illegally carrying.

Alex, the right to bear arms had no connection to us not "speaking german". The Germans had no intention to invade the United States, and they were defeated by the militarys of the US, the UK, and the USSR, not armed citizens. Gun rights are important, but don't give them credit for accomplishments they had nothing to do with.

This killer knew his green light to find and kill this many unarmed GIs was about to change. Once he is deployed into a warzone his opportunity to find so many unarmed GIs in one place goes to zero.

This killer knew his green light to find and kill this many unarmed GIs was about to change. Once he is deployed into a warzone his opportunity to find so many unarmed GIs in one place goes to zero.

Not as long as evil is in the world and the Prince of Peace tarries his return.

If this had been a combat zone Major Hasan would be an ugly footnote. He still might have been to kill one or even two but by then he would have become a target and the rounds would have flying downrange finding their target: him!!!

And today, we have a shooting in an office building in Orlando. It is a never ending cycle any more. Military bases, abortion clinics, school campuses, churches, office buildings, and homes. The stress of war and economic losses at play.

Question:

Why would a Muslim or Islamist have any interest in joining the US Armed Forces?

The Middle East trouble has been going on for eons. The actual Terrorists were recognized after 9/11.

Wouldn't they know that it would be dangerous territory for them to enter the Armed Services in America. Worried about Harassment or their life?

LMAO. have you ever been on a military installation. we do not get to carry around rifles with us all day. all weapons on post are under lock and key in our armories. they are called sensitive items, and if one goes missing the whole base goes on lock down until found. as far as the afgan war being neccessary, damn maybe you should have been in the twin towers on september 11 2001, then maybe you might change your tune.

I was thinking the same thing on the way to work this morning.

Tired of Anarchy

You watch too much TV. No soldier is going to kill someone because a Muslim shrink tells him to. This psychiatrist had problems and no one seems to have tried to deal with them- now it's too late-

Here's a question. Can we waterboard him or would that make him too uncomfortable?

True, some heads are going to roll with this one!

Sad in Texas: You believe that people should be prosecuted for things that they say, yet wonder why people are so afraid to speak up?

In this case there may have been clear warning signs, but in many cases words are just words. We can't have people going around accusing each other of being terrorists unless we have very good reason to do so.

Is it wrong to say that an oppressed people, any oppressed people, should rise up and fight their opressors? That actually sounds like a very American belief, something that both the American Revolution and the Civil War were based on.

Personally I don't think that either the Taliban nor Al Qaeda should be shown any mercy, but that doesn't mean that the average Afghan or Iraqi civilian should be made to suffer. We should never be the opressors.

But you are very right. With beliefs like those, he had no place in the US Military.

James, not to be combative here, I do want to ask the question I asked in my original post above. Do you think that a high ranking military member should be held to a higher and stricter standard when we are actively engaged in wars in countries that embrace the ideologies against which we are fighting? Do you think THIS Major's postings should have come under more aggressive scrutiny because of his expressed sentiments and the fact that they were counter-intuitive to the war effort and in direct conflict with his oath of service to America?

I am interested in thoughts on this subject only, and am NOT trying to infer or imply that I know the answers to the questions above or that I have any opinion whatsoever on these questions. I am just trying to get my head around whether or not freedom of speech is an implied right when one takes an oath to subordinate and adhere to the military and U.S. government policy(s).

Thoughts?

You did not post before in this thread so I have no clue what "original post" you are referring to.

The answer is that you take an oath to obey orders, not to agree with government policy. However, if you take away the right to dissent, then you take away the very thing our soldiers fight to defend.

There are many people who would disagree with the wars, but that would not disqualify them from serving in the military. Anything said in casual conversation when off duty should be considered protected speech. Also , anybody with a valid conscientious objection should also be evaluated closely before serving.

I hope not. I want him to rot from within. Why put him out of misery? He can do that himself. Was he not getting rid of his possessions earlier on in anticipation of him not coming back alive?

Exactly Kayak, his worst nightmare is going to be when he wakes up alive chained to a hospital bed. Let him rot in a military prison living out that nightmare for the rest of his life.

Justice can be dished out however authorities see fit if WH stays out of it. Military would probably not give death sentence, but at least one civilian was also murdered and this happened down here in texas. We'd stick a needle in him in a heart beat.

My guess though is that Obama will get Eric Holder involved to 1) keep death penalty from coming into play and 2) attempt to keep the Muslim world happy.

Not if the ACLU and Hussein have anything to say about it.

The first reassuring comment I have read. Thanks.

tjm-797207 ....... I agree with much of what you write concerning multi-deployments (and going all out to win) .. but the multi-deployment argument doesn't apply in this case .. the shooter had never been deployed overseas .. anywhere .. ever !

Ranger -

True enough - but then I would imagine that if he was treating PTSD cases of the guys who have been deployed over and over, it's gotta be pretty depressing hearing their stories all day long and then facing your own deployment. I would imagine objectivity would be the first casualty.

Good point .. tjm .. I'll go back to one of my previous posts and say .. it doesn't really matter ..whether he was just mentally overloaded, an Islamic radical, or just plain scared or all the above ... he was .. d e f e c t i v e.

Ranger -

Agreed - and if the politicos don't get with the program, the whole system is going to be defective soon.

tjm, you are right on point. The psychological condition of our men/women in uniform is of paramount importance in this day and time. Unlike past wars, we are re-deploying soldiers with KNOWN injuries and psychological conditions due to the fact that recruitment #s have been down for a long, LONG time. There simply ARE no replacements, and not enough time for these soldiers to rest, and not enough human resources to release them from active duty or active WAR duty.

I read that for the first time in our entire HISTORY during the G. W. Bush administration years, it became accepted and expected policy to re-deploy "wounded" soldiers for multiple tours of duty. Might THAT be the reason for the # of suicides, staggering PSTD cases and general malcontent in the service?

Again, not knowing all of the relevant facts about THIS particular Army Major, we can assume, with a good deal of accuracy, that he spent countless hours listening to the horrible accounts and experiences of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, and elsewhere, for that matter. Who counsels the counselor, I wonder?

Report of his sordid military experience, performance reviews and recent sympathetic postings for the cause of the enemy MIGHT indicate (1) a psychotic break or (2) a change of heart. Either way, the outcome was NOT good, nor should it be acceptable.

Something HAS to change, or we're in DEEP bat guano! God bless our men and women in uniform today, and God bless those who lost their lives yesterday. May the peace that surpasses all understanding from our Father God rest upon the families of the fallen today as well.

As a retired former military, you should remember the oath you took whenever you entered the armed forces .. words like protect and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United states against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

Yet very few times in my military career did I ever see an individual live up to those words ... the vast majority complied with their so-called "lawful orders" and went to vietnam or some other war. Yet none of these "police actions" or "wars on terror" had any legal merit. There was no Declaration of War by Congress, which is called for in the Constitution, in order for the President to assume Commander in Chief of the Army. Usually these people filed under CO status or something else, but not because the specified war was illegal.

Once we have started down that slippery path of ignoring rules and laws, it should not be surprising to read of events like this one and likely more to follow. This Ft. Hood shooting is being promoted 24/7 for politicial reasons more so than the multiple deaths of Americans in firefights in Afghanistan and it is sad to see these deaths played up in promoting the war.

David, have you read every version of the Koran? Like I said before, I served in the military for 20 yrs and am so pissed off about this whole incident that its nearly blinding. I do know that if I just lash out irrationally that it does no good. Generalizations of any group are usually false. Do you believe that all Christians should be baptized by a sprinkling of water on the head? That wasn't what I was taught. Where my teachings correct? One will only find out in time. The fact that faith differs by teaching is obvious. There are radicals in every religion. I'm not defending anyones faith, but, I'm not condemning them either.

There is only one version. The text has not changed even one letter in more than 1400 years. Like any religious text, it can be used to justify anything since it is easy to take things out of context if one chooses.

I think David is correct. Why is it that whenever there is a plane hi jacked or a large group of innocent people gun down or blown up, the guilty party happens to be MUSLIM!!!! Time to clean house, get me some clorox please.

David, have you read every version of the Koran?

The Qur'an is said to be the EXACT WORDS of God. Direct to Muhammad through the Angel Gabriel. There are no Reader's Digest condensed versions. And all of them call on Muslims to destroy the crusaders and Jews. No ambiguity. Lay in wait and kill them. Behead them, cut off their hands and feet, etc, etc. Jihad does not mean peace. Jihad means struggle, as in struggle against the infidel. Islam is not peace. Islam is death to non Muslims.

The only religious group to be discriminated against today are Christians. If he were a Christian there would already be calls from Obama and the liberals to throw him to the lions.

lol Skip, Does insanity run in your family or are you the first. The bible has been twisted to support everything from slavery to genocide. People have, over history, been encouraged by their churches to support terrible "evil" in the name of religion. Organized religion does still serve some functions for some individuals, but those will never compare with the dysfunctions it serves humanity as a whole, INCLUDING CHRISTIANITY.

Although I am not Muslim, I have a Qur'an on my bookshelf next to my Bible, and my Scientology books. Can someone please tell me where in the Qur'an it says to kill non-Muslims? Which Sura and verse?

Momma2, I'm sorry to say but it is idiots like you who distort the truth about religion! No one Christian can ever claim that the Bible confirms the way they think. Any book ever read is compounded soley on the readers own interpretation. The Bible does not condone such acts as you and Obama have pointed out, it merely gives record to such events in the past. It shows how truly ignorant people are who claim to know God's Will. I do agree with the assertation that if a Christian had killed a group of muslims, there would be no call from the president to not rush judgement based on that persons religion.