U.S. official resigns over war in Afghanistan

Mr. Hoh may be right, but the fact that the Washington Post is using this former official to fuel it's own anti-war agenda disgusts me. Another example of the media's propaganda to foster more left wing policies.

Yes, while our administration and Congress fiddle(Democrats) the situation worsens.

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!

What as opposed to the previous administration (who started, didn't finish, and left this mess to somebody else)???????

And yes, I do mean Bush, and I am laying blame for this at his feet. The US went into this "war" with absolutely NO planning and/or stratagy. We went in to fight an intangible, and that's a fight you CAN NOT win.

But, now that it has been started, let's just up and leave...that'll show them.

A well thought out and planned exit strategy is sorely needed here, not only for our troops - who were put into danger for an unknown to begin with - but also for the Afghan people, who we've pretty much screwed.

Remember. We lost focus on Afghanistan because we had much much more important things to go after such as Saddam's non existent wmd's and his close relationship with Al Qaeda.

201,Instead of pulling ALL troops out, Obama doubled the no. of troops in Afghanistan!It's his war, but he won't go.

genafan201: In case you just woke up from a 7-year long coma, the war against terror going on in Afghanistan has been, since it's start, led by NATO, not the US. The strategy being empolyed, such as it is now, as it applies to US Forces, has been devised by the current Administration, not the Bush Administration. You might want to check the fact-line on this war before you start putting things at other people's feet!

As for Mr. Hoh resigning, at least someone sees that the Emperor is indeed not wearing any clothes! Mr. Hoh should have been offered the job of Secretary of State to replace the other idiot currently filling the position.

Justice,

What's worse than what you say is the fact that for over 8 years the NYT was complicit in the illegal dealings of the Bush administration. In fact, dozens of intelligence officials resigned when Cheney tried to bullly them into manufacturing evidence to start these illegal wars. Not one word of it was reported.

This should prove beyond any doubt there is no such thing as a liberal mainstream media, and the fact you would call this left wing propaganda shows just how stupid, uninformed and ignorant of the truth you and the rest of the war-mongering freaks really are.

The US WILL lose this war, just like every other war-mongering empire has lost a war in Afghanistan in the past and once again we will have learned absolutely nothing. In the process, thousands more American kids will die, thousands of innocent civilians will be slaughtered, and thousands more will be permanently scarred just so some defense contractor can make a profit, and a few people can get re-elected.

Never start a War if you don't have the stomach to do what ever it takes to win, Like I've said in the past America can never win a War ever again, I don't care what anyone says, it's just a waste of lives to be there, not to mention all the money and resources, We are fighting people that are willing to kill you and your whole family and that includes your cat & you're dog, So how are we going to win by trying to avoid civilians you think for one minute they would give a Sh-t if your wife or children were killed during their attacks, you all need to get real ........ And don't tell me about stooping to their level I would go below their level to Win ....

Ok...Hoh has an opinion and perhaps a few valid points...but what real, concrete solutions does he offer, from his supposed "expertise"?

More support for Pakistan? Seriously? I'm sure Pakistan would have both hands out for monetary support, but it's common knowledge that they don't want the US involved militarily.

Better communication and propoganda to match al Queda? lol! Who is it we're trying to convince here....the Afghanis or the American people?

Hoh wants more pressure on Harzai to clean up government corruption? I guess if there were enough fairies and leprechauns, he could get all governments of the world to do likewise. Uhm...good luck with that one.

Hoh's observations are, at best, superficial and personally, I don't quite get how his suggestions on governance are going to make a difference in battling people who are hell-bent on destroying themselves and each other.

Hoh...you'd better run home and pull the sheet up over your head.

May we heed his lead!!!

We have been fiddling since the first year we were successful driving the Taliban out . Not one dollar was budgeted to help restore and help establish a "modern" society and government in Afghanistan. Call fiddling fiddling!

America is a nation of idiots and it will take the country collapsing before things will change. This nation is not, nor is it deserving of the status of top dog on the planet.

bush may have started it but BO has escalated it which is what is angering the local tribes. they dont want our presence. the american government backed the very corrupt government in south viet nam and it accomplished the same thing. locals got angry at all the american soldiers bringing violence to their villages. so arose the viet cong. locals without the military training but very effective in their native lungle.

I think what he is ultimately saying is

It's a war that we cannot win !

If true, let's get out -

While Obama is of another plane of existence - Bush was human and made a mistake - let's not compund it -

GET OUT - and we will just have to deal with the consquences pure and simple.

Some states carry as much as $250,000 worth of life insurance on GI's which must be pleasing to the business/union community since beneficiaries spend it quickly. I assume that there still are profits on goods and services.

I don't care about anything other than putting al-Queda and the Taliban in the hurt locker (again) so we have to worry about getting attacked in ten years not ten months. We simply can't leave with them in a position of strength. As far as Afghanistan being a democracy I really don't care. I am hopeful there will be a successful election and that Abdullah Abdullah wins. There's a much better chance of peace with him than Karzai who (right or wrong) is seen as the U.S.'s puppet. But the bottom line is if the Afghan people want to live like cavemen then so be it. As long as that doesn't result in the U.S. being attacked from training camps within the country that's great. If another attack were to happen then it should be game,set,match.

Paul and 201,

Perhaps both of you should try to look at this as an American problem instead of a Democrat or Republican fault. You two are a very good example of what is wrong with our Country. It is unfortunate that we have 535 others we call Congress that function on the same level. Rather than look at a problem and find a way to fix it, they use the problem to blame the other side of an imaginary political line.

Mr. Hoh's meaning behind his message will be lost by the inability of people to see this as an American problem instead of a political opportunity.

In another story about the gang rape of a 15 year old girl at a High School dance, people were outraged not only at the individuals who committed the rape but also by those who saw it happening and walked on by. Throwing politics at Mr Hoh's message is like walking on by.

I am surprised by the lack of focus present here. After years of misdirected effort in Iraqi now that we are focused in the right direction(no pun intended) there is a problem. Have we forgotten 9/11 and the reason why we engaged in this effort in the first place? I suggest before making a call to withdrawal our forces, first take a trip to NYC or to the Fields in PA. The original goal was to capture Bin Laden and hold him responsible for his actions. I know a lot of people brought into the imaginary Weapons of Mass Destruction and Saddam story, but please let us stay focused on the Coward Bin Laden. We should take a moment to thank the families of the Soldiers and Marines who lost their lives in Iraqi and support our troops in Afghanistan.

Imagine if the Jewish people and the World had said "We don't want the Nazi's held responsible"

Same thing, in my eyes. Never forget and hold strong!

God Bless America from the Hood to the Skyscrapers, and from the Traffic jammed streets of Philadelphia to the open fields of the Mid West!

Skiddy,

Do you actually read the articles. Mr Hoh calls for the US to leave not the knee jerk send more troops reaction that has been our course. The Obama Administration is considering the opinions of people such as Hoh which is a huge step forward. When you occupy someones country for eight years or so with no end in sight you are no longer a guest or liberator, in the long course of human history I cannot find one instance of an active and aggressive military presence has been accepted by the indigenous population for such a period. Mr begnign occupations such as the Marshal Plans have worked but never a military approach. Simply put armed foreigners eventually piss off the locals and offend their sensibilities.

JKHayes

jUSTICE... I AGREE. This was their plan from the beginning. They want this to be a Vietnam. They have their surrogates out there bringing up Vietnam, they even have the FREAK John Kerry at the head of this. How did America let this happen? These guys are appeasers. The reason the Afghan's are not on board is because they know this president doesn't have their back. You know how I know? Because our president doesn't have our backs. He is flinching and they can see it. They know Obama will go play golf while our troops need support. Obama, Kerry and the democrats will end the greatness of our country. I use to think that the war protestors were against violence there fore get out troops out of the way and I am sure some do. But the majority of them, want Tyranny, want communism to continue. That is how they believe.

EX-LIB

I agree - because current US policy won't be to win - we need to get OUT and then deal with the ramifications -

Better than pretending to be taking care of business -

If you notice, every conflict is a veitnam.

Get out now.

PTSD, says it all. The man does not see nor can he justify his past actions. What he sees is like what I seen in Cambodia, every little warlord wants his piece of ground left alone for what ever reason. There is no National pride just what is mine is mine and you stay out of how I run my territory. But the problem is like in Cambodia we left and the Kemer and Pol Pot took over everything, truth is the Taliban and BinLaden are no different. The criminality of doing nothing for the people there is just as heavy a burden as the criminality of the terrorist who are trying to form an enviroment of their choosing. To Mr. Hoh I say you should visit a VA PTSD treatment center and come to grips with your past. It is not about war but freedom from terrorist who kill even their own for naught but a man declared jihad.

Mikael#64.... no way! These guys are too close to getting the nukes over in Pakistan. Do you know what they do over there? They force their way into a village. Force the woman to stay in their homes, don't allow girls to go to school. The villages accommodate them out of fear. But that is not enough, they then set their donkeys on fire and cut the throats of their police or anyone who threatens them. You O.k. with that? What is worth fighting for in your world? A lot of this didn't start unraveling until Obama got into office and changed the rules of engagement. Our troops are not allowed to shot a lot of the times, and this was reported on a liberal news organization.

Washington Post is using this former official to fuel it's own anti-war agenda

wherever did you get the idea that the news media is against the wars?

The blame game here is ridiculous, just a bunch of wanna be important suckers regurgitating the party line for the most part. To me the question is not who to blame, but what is the outcome our Government is looking for?

It may jump up and bite us in the posterior some time in the future, but if a bunch of people want to stay in what we perceive to be squalid conditions and not join in the 21st century with the rest of the world, I say LET EM!

Put a bounty on the Taliban heirarchy, crop dust the poppy fields with a chemical that would kill the poppies (and hopefully just the poppies) and forget about the rest! Let them live like a bunch of backwards morons in the mountains if they want to!

While I am still not sure how I feel about the Afghan war, I appreciate this man standing up for what he believes in, even though it may be unpopular.

Sure wish more people were willing to do so.

The war is not in the wrong country, it's against the wrong enemy. We need to disappear into the population and eliminate terrorists quietly. That would be without the help of reporters.

EX-LIB

I know - that is why IF you are going to fight you fight to win - ALL IN ALL THE WAY - I am all for a massive effort give the Gererals everything the wish for 110% !!!

My thing is I DON"T THINK our leadership is prepared to go all out - there is way too much measuring and calculating being done.

As I understand it these tribal wars have been going on for centuries and I think it's crazy - but now they a battling with 21st century weapons and this is a DANGEROUS CRAZY --

They way they treat their women is GROSS -

Again - if we fight in measured means it is a waste of time and life.

I am under no illusion that we can just wish this to go away - I am certain we will be forced to deal with these NUT BAGS one way or the other, regrettably political advantage is the principle goal.

The climate of our country is so divided that right now we are incapable of accomplishing much of anything. If I were the Taliban or Al Queda I would NOT DO ANYTHING that would unite the USA, I would just sit back and watch as the USA destroys itself from within.

All of this makes for {IMO} a very sad time in our history ??

Hey, Hoh, don't let the door hit you on the way out. All wars waste life...

As a former Marine I've never known a Marine officer or non-com to be wrong. Listen to the people that know what they're talking about. We have no real business in Afghanistan except to buy more time for Karzei and that itself is a huge mistake. Same in Iraq. The war is over. Bring the boys home and let the Muslims blow each other up over who should lead Islam, the Emir or the indirect descendant of Mohammed.

Read that the war in Afghanistan is now a longer war than World War 2. It is getting worse because of our non-committal and because we seem to have lost our general purpose. That was... to break up terrorists and capture Osama Bin Laden. Very little is said about this because of the new approach to foreign problems.

President Obama's hold on this committment is curious. He says he wants to see what will happen politically. But what will happen is that the people will be scared to go and vote and the Taliban wins! Weren't we there for the protection of the U.S.?

I can't help but feel that much of the maneuvering around is to make sure that the right leader takes the helm in the country.... say the new Castro or Chavez. The President has not endorsed anyone, but certainly hesitates while we are sitting ducks, because of the election.

Get in and win, or pull eveyone out and watch.

genafan

In response to your comment about blaming Bush, let's not forget a few Democrats in congress and senate also supported this war. So I say to all you playing this one-sided blame game it was both parties. Just like the Democrats screwing up this country now with all their spending, bailouts, corruption, pork spending and clash for clunker garbage which is sinking this country deeper at the bottom of the ocean.

As a retired vet of 20 years and two previous wars, on possibly an intellectual level I can understand some of what Mr Hoh's frustration and reasoning was for his resigning in protest. But on another level, I cannot help but wonder if by quitting, he may have let down the people he says he was most concerned about. That being our troops fighting the war. That is something that Mr Hoh has to decide for himself. In either case I still wish him well. Semper Fi!

Michael... I hear you. I wish Obama would have been straight with the people of this country and not have gone on and on about Afghanistan being the right war. He has deceived us in so many ways. He is playing politics with our guys and girls and that makes me sooo sick. What a mind F&$# for the troops. They have dedicated themselves, their families have sacrificed so much for our country to have this Bozo,long face and dufus Biden muck it all up.

This guy is coming out by design.

Justice Flleeting, your blog does not make any sense, if the man is correct, why is it wrong for the anti war movement to use it if it result in getting it right?  The war mongers are not going to use it, because they want to continue fighting a lossing cause, under the illusion that they can win.  Be a realist, we dam do not want to be supporting a corrupt government in a civil war.  If Mr. Hoh is correct in his assesment of the war, we should be making some adjustment and take his advice. 

Just two cents, My dad is a Korean Veteran saw the same things that happen in Korea, To Vietnam and every war or skirmishes since that it appears there to be holding status quo. He talks about this all the time. After WWII it appears that no matter How it comes out America does not win. If you don't help you don't care but if you do well do it with one hand tied behind your back(that was how Korea and Vietnam was fought). It just makes him sick either do the job or don't.

BTW as far as WMD every keeps bringing up how do any of you know that some of the Technology did not end up via Syria to Iran for the Nuclear Program to I remember just before we invaded Iraq the news Media at the time was fixated and reported on the news for a week or so about three very Large Cargo vessel living the harbor and docking in North Korea. As to the reason why German and France did not originally want to get involved with Iraq and the Huge Pipeline that came out at the Syria border. Just a coincidence that I ran Nuclear Program came to the top and North Korea continuing to test rockets more than usual. All I can say is we will never know the truth.

Either way there is no way to win a convensional war In Afghanistan history shows that, also have said the only way to is to do the unthinkable and that will never happen.

To all who are against this war, first of all let's not forget those who died in 9-11 and all our brave men and woman. Our government failed to even get Ben Laddins head and focus on the B%#@* for what he did. I as a military wife whose husband served his country for 31 years those poor soldiers and victims of 9-11 should not die in vein either. Our government has let all of us down for not going in and do the job we was supposed to do and get our ASSES out of there. But to try to change the Afghan people forget it, it's up to them to want to change otherwise they are a primitive culture who lives in the past. Our country needs to stop trying to mold certain countries and focus on the main goal and that is BEN L.

ARE YOU SURE..you know who was behind 9-11 ??????

OIL..OIL....OIL.....

War = Money.....enough is enough..bring our troops home !!!!!

Tired... I remember that too about the cargo going out of Irag. There was plenty of time to get these things out. And from what we have since learned, there was plenty of the yellow cake found, doesn't need to be nukes. As far as the whole war thing. Osama has said that America gives up using Vietnam and Somolia as reference. So they just have to hold on. They have become emboldened with Obama and the left in this country.

Hoh Resignation?:

He got fired!, for not going along with Pres. Obama. He must have clashed telling Obama he better listen to McChrystal. A US soldier and Military Officer, know this war is headed for tons more deaths, if troops aren't sent there NOW.

Look again, today, there are more US military soldiers dying recently under Obama's watch than Bush's!--

No, he didn't resign, that is a nice word for being fired.
Hoh "crossed hairs" with Obama.

It always happens. Resignation is a nice word for get the heck out of here.

Politics.

nightmoveskat, look out behind you! made you look. the old worn out oil conspiracy.

anyway, didn't read most of the blather above, but was hoping someone would call him a racist since he's a nonbeliever!

I can agree that we need to work towards getting the hell out of that s hole. But Hoh is a classic 30 something. Less than a year on the job and instead of sticking to it and making a difference, just quit. THAT should show 'em! Good luck getting a job again with the title "quitter" hanging over your head. Of course he could parley this into an "experts" panel position on fox because those months of service really demonstrates a wealth of experience and dedication.

Nigtmoveskat:

OIL, OIL, OIL? It was "soil, soil, soil". The Terrorists attacked the US starting a war on our "SOIL", 9/11.

What do you think a President would do? Fire back at the Terrorists in retaliation, or should he have sat and watched them take over America?. Saddam is gone. Do you think we got any OIL from them? Bush told them to keep it, remember. It was theirs.

Do you think the Afghan war is over OIL? Hardly, it was to get Osama Bin Laden and filter out the combined deadly Terrorists who are coming to kill you, with nuclear warfare. Sold to them by Russia, or Iran.

Ah, the arm chair generals are in bountiful supply when a man of consicience is pushed to the front of the line, makes me wonder just how many of them actually have even had a smidgeon of this man's experience and can actually speak with any authority.

The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist and if you go to war then the purpose is to win not dither as is the present situation or give some phoney speech about committment that amounts to more blather. The question is still are we going to commit to win because I can tell you now there will be no truce, this tribal thinking zealot driven, jihad religion will not give you the benefit of a truce and will sacrifice all to impose themselves in your lives from every quadrant....listen to what they say and read their book, it is not a revelation but it is spelled out, it is a plan.

Oh I know there are many who will want to blame as much of this as possible on the last administration but in reality it has been a constant war of growing involvment for a long number of years. We have had many warnings and failed to be a harsh hand of retribution when we needed to and we have let the political winds of passivity cloud our thinking and now this islamic influence is among us and embedded within our own walls of security. Deny it if you want but all you will do is add to the encouragement and enable this threat to gain more of a foot hold, by not facing up to our responsibility and making those hard decisions to quell terrorism when we needed to, we are now doing so now....the trick is are we lead by a man or a mouse, is he capable of facing up to the task or do we need a leader?

"Hippies still suck, commnist always lie and a terrorist will kill anyone, anytime, anywhere just because..." Axiom

Justice, Ex-Lib and frenchconnection - you guys stand over there. Okay, the people with brains - stand here. On the double.

Ex Lib

Glad you remember that too, there was lots of time before the invaision. As I have said here also proves two things most Americans are short on Memory or they just do not pay attention till it effects them. This is why things have gotten so far out of hand. You have a good day.

This is NOT the governments fault. This IS the fault of all the VOTERS in the United States. Good job.

genafan

In response to your comment about blaming Bush, let's not forget a few Democrats in congress and senate also supported this war. So I say to all you playing this one-sided blame game it was both parties. Just like the Democrats screwing up this country now with all their spending, bailouts, corruption, pork spending and clash for clunker garbage which is sinking this country deeper at the bottom of the ocean.

When I hit "post comment" above, there was one comment on this thread, from Skiddy, which stated: "Yes, while our administration and Congress fiddle(Democrats) the situation worsens.", without ANY mention of the fact that the former congress (Republicans) had anything to do with this mess. So, in that my response was a little heated, I apologize for the content, but not the context.

We CAN NOT, at this time just pull out of Afghanistan, that would be madness. But, the fact that we never should have been over there (as we never should have been in Iraq) seems to be over some people's heads. As I stated before, a clear exit strategy is what is needed, and it would be REALLY nice to give the current administration adequate time to come up with that strategy, since the past administration never gave any thoughts to an exit (in either place).

I said it before and will say it again.......That was a sh!t hole before we got there, they don't want us there, and it will again be a sh!t hole when we leave. After much dead Americans and lost billions. We will never understand them people so we will never be able to do any more good there. GET OUT. They will kill each other faster than we can kill them. Iraq as well, same problem. When no Americans to kill they kill each other. It is a win win for us. Pack up and leave. Call a truce and get the hell out. I have been to War 4 times FROM VIETNAM till the Gulf War . IT JUST AIN'T WORTH IT.

Zzzzzzz..............yey, newspapers pushing agendas.

Hi all,my opinion is,that we have absolutely no business at all to occupy 130 countries in the world,some for about 60 years (Japan,Italy ,Germany)How would we like it,if let`s say 500,000 Chinese Troops were occupying OUR beloved Country America for sixty years,deposed our President and Congress and forcefully installed Puppett Governments,with importing many of the top people from exile?and then caqlling it "Democratic Elections-a TOTAL JOKE under occupation?).And all of this is ruining our Country,with our people too ignorant to make the connection.So you say:" 9/11"?? This was organized by Israel,with Israeli Agents posing as "Agents for Osama bin Laden" hiring some gullible Fanatics to do their job,so that they could get our people to agree to fight and die for THEIR (Israel`s) wars.And the result is total desaster for our beloved Country and also the world.Greetings from San Diego,California

I think we need to step back and look at our capability to delivery and our accomplishments with our American troops in Afgan;

2008 Winter: 27,000
2009 Spring: 30,000
2009 Spring, 47,000

now McChrystals asked for an additional 60,000, and now it is reduced to 40,000. That would make it 87,000 in Afgan... Are our troops accomplishing what is required in Afgan?

Come on, be honest! There are plenty of blames to go around, but did our surge of 20,000 troops at the Spring of this year make an impact? Will Taliban become a domainant governmening party? If so, then what will become of Afgan? When we invaded Afgan 8 years ago, Afgan was governed by Taliban, so how will it be different?... Like I said, be honest here.

Most of you are going down a drawn party line. You have long lost your objectivities.

I think we missed our chance to do this the right way when we had the entire worlds support early on, largely by getting distracted in Iraq & pulling out many of our troops when we had Al Qaeda on the run and by not having people like Mr. Hoh to administer the resources we committed to rebuilding the country. I fear now it may be too late to repair the damage already done. Unfortunately, our pulling out now may open the door for Al Qaeda to again move in and start using Afghanistan as a base of operations.

I respect Mr. Hoh's decision to resign but I wish he would again reconsider because if there is any hope of our succeeding in Afghanistan it will be because of people like him making the process work. Whatever he does in the future, I salute him for his service to our country & wish him all the best.

Semper Fi, sir.

I take my hat off to this guy. He said it like it is, either go to war with a purpose or get the hell out. Obama likes headlines of his meetings, etc etc etc, but he has no do, no backbone. Si he lets Americans die now daily for nothing, because our forgein policy is now to bow down, say we're so sorry, and I am afraid now run.

I find myself torn between "justicefleeting's" (Msg. #1.1) comments and those of "snake09" (Msg. #1.3). The initial invasion and overthrow of the Taliban, given the limitations under which we were dealing, was absolutely brilliantly conducted, but, within months of that success, we lost focus because of the Bush Administration's determination to invade Iraq. An extra battalion of America troops at Tora-Bora would have killed or captured Bin Laden, but those troops were already being held back in anticipation of a war in Iraq. Six more years of neglect have now rendered the Afghan situation far more difficult than it ever needed to become and our support of the incompetent and corrupt Karzai regime echoes our initial missteps in Iraq supporting the Chalabi/INC transitional government.

On the other hand, there is no doubt but that Capt. Hoh's resignation is being played up, not because folks like MSNBC share his concerns, but because his concerns play to their own positions and policies, which, in a nutshell, is to "cut and run" (so much for Pres. Obama's campaign promise to put proper emphasis on and proper troop levels into Afghanistan - it is now his "inconvenient war", as it was Bush's, and the only answer they can come up with is to tip over the chessboard and storm off). I also think it is wise, in view of how the media used disenchanted servicemen during the Vietnam conflict to sell their positions, to be distrustful when a junior official's resignation is given this much media play (tho', hopefully, we won't see the kind of self-serving "turncoat" behavior displayed, for instance, by folks like John Kerry, and I won't attempt to denigrate Capt. Hoh with such a comparison).

So, here's what I do know and believe: Capt. Hoh is correct. Afghanistan is a tribal society and this is, in many ways, a tribal war, with the Pashtuns (also called "Pushtuns") providing the majority of the support to the insurgency. The Pashtuns were also the primary base of support for the Taliban and for Al Qaeda's presence in the country. It does not flow, therefrom, however, that the answer is to pull out and leave the tribes to their infighting. If we, in fact, pull out, based on that assessment, then we will simply return Afghanistan to the "status quo ante" the invasion, Taliban and Al Qaeda et al., which will make the situation in Pakistan, already dangerously unstable, even worse. The fact that the Pashtuns are pro-Taliban will not change with our withdrawal, but it will result in the marginalization (if not also the defeat of) the other tribal groupings (the Durrani and Uzbeks and Tajiks and Hizaris and Ghilzais, etc. - many of whom formed the "Northern Alliance" with whose assistance we were able to successfully conclude the invasion). Rather, it would seem useful to do what every successful intervenor in Afghan affairs has always done, namely to support those tribes which best support our position (and who can form a counterbalance to the Taliban) while doing what we can to divide the Pashtuns and to "disaffect" as many of them as possible. American and NATO troops are needed to keep the Taliban out of the cities and, to the extent possible, out of the country, by sealing off, so far as is practicable, the passes along the NW Frontier with Pakistan. That would minimize the interaction between those "foreign forces" and the average Pashtun (thereby easing any anti-foreign sentiment), while providing a positive result in terms of improved security for those who are not inclined to support the Taliban's return. Those troops should not be being used for things like "opium eradication", which simply alienate the population and drive them into the arms of the Taliban (why we are not encouraging our pharmaceutical companies, which are complaining of an opium shortage, to go in there and start buying Afghan opium is beyond me - it's the one thing we could do which would immediately benefit not only us but also undercut the rural support for the Taliban).

I do not know if such a strategy obliges us to increase (as Gen. McChrystal has requested) our troop levels. I suspect, in the short term, that it does. It does not, however, oblige us to embark on an expensive (and questionable) "nation building" program in a nation which has been resistant to foreigner-imposed change since before Alexander the Great brought his phalanxes through on the way to India. Rather, it recognizes the limitations of our ability to influence Afghan history and takes advantage of the social situation which exists there (and which will still exist there, one suspects, when the USA is but a memory).

If you guys are so serious, then support the truth. Here is the crux of the issue that need to resolved which Hoh summarizes in one of the paragraph

With "multiple, seemingly infinite, local groups," he wrote, the insurgency "is fed by what is perceived by the Pashtun people as a continued and sustained assault, going back centuries, on Pashtun land, culture, traditions and religion by internal and external enemies. The U.S. and Nato presence in Pashtun valleys and villages, as well as Afghan army and police units that are led and composed of non-Pashtun soldiers and police, provide an occupation force against which the insurgency is justified."

San Diego-1435917-

Then Israel hired Osama to make videos of himself claiming responsibility. Then aliens came, invaded San Diego and made the people there write ridiculous things.

At least Hoh is finally doing the honorable thing ... but the rest of the war-mongers need to take a ticket, get in line for the next plane and start searching for this little bearded fellow who is supposed to be hiding in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan.

genafan:

Still blaming Bush for a war in Afghanistan?.

If Obama didn't like the Wars in the Middle East, why did he want the Presidency so badly? He sure seemed in dire need to be one.

A President becomes Commander in Chief upon Inauguration. He was willing to take on all the responsibilities of being President, including the Terrorists and these Wars.

Now, he must show Leadership. It is needed badly, but he doesn't want any part of the "bad" stuff.

As President, in War Time, one can not pick and choose what issues that come first. 22 deaths since he has taken office, which means neglect on his part.

Something smelly as fish, about the Hoh resignation.

Hi all,I am writing again.I am a licensed Structural Engineer,and would like to comment on " 9/11" .The "Towers" could have been hit by 10 airplaines,and would not have collapesd(although very severe damage would have ocurred-and the third tower collapsed with no air plane flying into it)All of the steel beams are insulated with fire-proof insulation,so a fire could have lasted for many,many hours,not even touching the beams.Our fighter jets could have been there in five minutes,but weren`t there at all,but a Television Crew for very misterious reasons managed to get there through all of that traffic,and were there in time for all the world to see what happened.(Also some Israelis were seen cheering when the towers went down,with some of them having been arrested and deported to Israel later).Greetings from San Diego,California

America has put it's hands in every pie!

How can we be committed to winning over there.... when we are not committed to winning the inner struggle that we are going through every day as a nation right here on our own soil?

If I individually commit myself to too much... something is going to give. That something will be my downfall because I can only do so much. Our policy in policing the whole world is out of control. We cannot even take care of our own citizens to make sure that we are free to prosper and be secure. Isn't that the reason that we go to wars... for the protection of our own? And why for the protection of our own? Because in the beginning there was a belief that was taught and carried on in our families and schools that America was the greatest answer to freedom on the face of the planet. Now we apologize for who we are, and the foundations of our pride have been constantly hammered and dismantled by the infiltration of new beliefs about what America is. There are too many among us that believe that we are an evil capitalistic country that is out for ourselves. Yet history tells us that we do not fence our citizens in, and that we do not fence others out.

If we have an honorable reason for being in Afghanstan, then there should be no blurring of the purpose and goal of being there. If we are there to Nation build, but there are no concrete allies in that country, then let's get out! If we are there to protect the United States and our interests, let's win the war, help our allies in that nation, and come home. A Vacuum is built when the purposes and intents are for the wrong reasons. Those that will rule in Afghanistan have to have the determination to govern themselves without us playing babysitter to keep them from destroying themselves.

Too bad such an intelligent and experienced person has decided to cut and run instead of trying to apply his knowledge from within.  I understand his predicament, I do not understand a marine who quits the fight when he could have contributed to improving its resolution.

We went into Afghanistan to capture or kill Bin Ladin and to destroy his training camps. We have never addressed the real supporter of terrorist in the World, which is Saudi Arabia. The supply the terrorists and the finances to train, plan, and carryout attacks against American and Europe. Our presence in Afghanistan was never to create a government. We used the forces fighting against each other to our advantage and then we helped bring one of those forces to power. Since Pakistan created the Taliban and we during the 80s created the so called freedom fighters, it has now come to the point where we failed to get Bin Ladin and our troops are dying to keep Karsai in power, while the country thrives off the sale of Heron. Get out, let kill each other!!!!

Oh yes------We have been looking for someone to define our indecision. We wrap it in the Presidents solemn duty to defend the constitution--- We liberals are going to vote its fueling instability---Our Fearless leader has framed it the good War we can't afford to loose but his base has caused him to contemplate his naval----and MSNBC says someone ( 1 )of principal says we have no business being there. Isn't this the joke of the century? How does it even merit being a story? Just say Mr president we love you, we voted for you' but we are tired and can't continue to be concerned about our defence. Get the Hell in or get the Hell out but don't waste our resources on indecision or prepareing the public for our waffle.

San Diego...

You are a conduit for the problems that we face as a society. Obscure leanings to the enemy of the United States. The Holocaust never happened. Chairman Mao is a hero for ridding the world of maybe 60 million people. Fidel Castro is a legitimately warm soul. Hugo Chavez sees what is best for his people. And Reagan was a warmonger that broke up the Soviet Union. Isn't it time for your noon time prayer?

A President becomes Commander in Chief upon Inauguration. He was willing to take on all the responsibilities of being President, including the Terrorists and these Wars.

No kidding...I think that's what Obama DID, what he HAD to do...It's something that hadn't been done in 8 years.

Obama has NEVER backed off from his responsibilities...My guess is, if the story had been "Obama pulls all trooups"...most on this forum would be castrating him because now "the troops that died, died in vain".

The fact is, we are in a no-win situation over there. You can't defeat a nonentity with gun-power, and that's what some don't get.

Another conspiracy theory against producers from folks who hardly do bare minimum in life. You earn what u work for sloth!!!

Angry,

Anger without intellect is almost always misdirected. If an individual uses his position to invest the money of others loses all of it should he be given millions in bonus money? If a corporation requires the tax payer to bail them out for billions do they deserve reward? Are they producers? If a government spends a trillion dollars pursuing war against thugs and mountain bandits and are no closer to any percievable success are they producers?

The history of trickle down as an economic policy is absurdly bad. Since 1980 the redistribution of Americas wealth and prosperity is a stunning failure. Wealth has been redistributed domestically to pre Depression levels and the flow of US dollars to the Mideast (most to Saudi Arabia), China and India is an economic trajedy. This is the absolute result of supply side and disproportionate tax and trade policies that benefit an oligarchy of the most wealthy and connected.

JKHayes

Now Jim,

You can't rationalize with an "angry mob"....

Right on brotha, preaching to the choir here.

But people like mob think that the system the way it is, looking out for the rich and well-connected, is right. It neither reflects our national best-interest or moral standards.

You earn what u work for sloth!!!

Clearly you don't earn much, considering by the looks of it you have been on the Vine all morning......

No mob, there is the rational and the stupid. The stupid think that the way things are represent capitalism, which is sold as some sort of dogma that is beyond question or reproach.

The rational understand the context in which capitalism exists, and that the unfettered greed which free market capitalist philosophy is based does not necessarily represent the general welfare of the nation as a whole, nor reflect our democratic (small d) principles.

good riddance mr ho

No one should be this shallow as not to even weigh the other person's choice.......How many days have you ever been under fire, and watching men die, with no direction?
That is all I would like to know, then maybe I can apologize for calling your remark shallow.

Whitebeard--well said. Lets bring our troops home and rebuild our country. Goodness knows we have much to do here. We are footing almost all the expenses and fighting NATO's war by ourselves. Let other countries do more. Use our resources to rebuild our country for a change! We have no business fighting someone else's civil war!

9-11

Afghans are our sworn enemy. It's that simple. They've been our enemy since the blowback from Carter's stupid proxy war with the Russians in the late 70s. I say let's have a draft, and get this thing started for real.

And as for this idiot saying we should "pull out and run" - he should be tried for treason. This is war not fairy tales.

TimKaso....911 is over. We have exacted enough revenge. I don't want to spend one more red cent or lose one more life in Iraq or Afghanistan. You however are free to enlist and fight and throw all of your money into that rat hole!

we lose more American lives everyday to big pharma's negligence. No one's willing to wage a trillion dollar war against them, yet 9-11 is constantly thrown at us to justify continued spending on military excursions we just cannot afford anymore.

WAKE UP PEOPLE! WE ARE BROKE!

We're living on debt of foreign entities who are licking their chops at the prospect of dining on the prize assets of this country. Assets built by the hard work of Americans.

Yet the paid idiots can think of nothing but building the next biggest bombs to drop on some already god-forsaken sh*t hole of a country somewhere on the globe they can't even point out.

ENOUGH. Bring our boys and girls back home. The most asinine argument to date is that we're 'fighting them over there'. Are you idiots? How is that going to help? Fight them on your border, but first, for crying out loud, have a border!

Jeff-397806 - Since you feel we've "exacted enough revenge" I assume that there will be no complaining from you if someone you love is killed in the next attack. Do you honestly think they will simply leave us alone. As soon as we stop chasing them they will re-establish themselves and begin training for the next attack. When that happens it will be folks like you complaining the government did nothing to prevent it. As for service, I did mine, 21 years worth.

bob douglass: Why aren't you in Afghanistan fighting?

Whitebeard Obama wanted us out of Iraq not Afghan. One of his campaign promises was to go in the hole where Osama bin Laden lives.

I assume that there will be no complaining from you if someone you love is killed in the next attack

I won't. I don't live my life in fear over things I cannot control. And I sure as hell don't advocate spending billions of $$$ on wars which end life as opposed to spending billions of $$$ on universal health care to save lives.

So do us a favor, go hide under your bed and wait for the Islamic boogeyman to come get you. The rest of the adults will live their lives.

Afghans are our sworn enemy. It's that simple. They've been our enemy since the blowback from Carter's stupid proxy war with the Russians in the late 70s. I say let's have a draft, and get this thing started for real.

Great, another nutjob. I am sure you'll be at the head of the line, right?

There is a reason Shrub didn't institute a draft, because he never would've gone to war. This country would've soundly rejected the war in Iraq with a draft, just as it would soundly reject a longer, protracted war in Afghanistan today.

You fools don't get it. Terrorism cannot be solved with a military solution. Although you whimps would be just as happy to bankrupt the nation so you can feel a little more safe.

In order to fight a war, there must be a clear enemy, a clear theater, and a clear objective. There is none here. This is an intelligence problem, a policing problem, and a diplomatic problem. Period.

Any man who would sacrifice a little liberty for a little security shall have neither

Ben Franklin

Remember that.

I've written this many times in the recent past, and will do it again. How can we go in any country without undertsanding its history, demographics and culture. I am all for defeating radicals, but our military presence will not bring that permanent solution.

Pushtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan will never accept any foreign troops, even if the troops were building schools and hospitals for the locals. The only way to defeat the radicals there is to covertly support the locals who will and can fight the Talibans and their croonies. We also must stop supporting corrupt govenrments in the name of democracy. Locals are angry with us because we are helping crooks in their governments.

Based on above, I understand where Matthew Hoh is coming from and I agree with him in principle.

The quickest way to start losing freedom is to put up a border.

huh? what's that supposed to mean? I lock my door before I go to sleep, would I have more 'freedom' if I left it wide open?

We are a free country and as such we will never have a border capable of stopping terrorists.

that's the second most asinine statement after "lets fight them over here so we won't have to fight them over here". Why can't we have a border and be a free country? Why can't we make sure that everyone who enters this country does so legally? What's so 'un-free' about that?

fight them or accept the damage they do and move on. For those who choose to accept the damage I sincerely hope it's your family they kill.

what damage? what did Afghans ever do to us? and YES I'll accept the risks of accidental deaths. Pretty much like I do everyday.

I get in a car, drive down freeways, knowing perfectly well that a fatal accident awaits me. I fly on a plane, knowing fully well it could crash. I meet people, shake hands, embrace them, knowing fully well they could be carrying communicable diseases.

That's life. Grow up and get used to living it, instead of hiding in your bed and asking nanny government to give you false illusions of safety.

I lock my door before I go to sleep, would I have more 'freedom' if I left it wide open?

Speaking of asinine statements...

history 101 lesson

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/stevecoll/2009/09/gorbachev-was-right.html

TimKaso....Post#3.6....Thank you for your service. And now you may thank me for my service.

I honestly believe that if we left Afghanistan today the Afghany people would do nothing to us. I also believe that if we keep squandering money on the military industrial complex that our country will go completely broke. When our people are homeless, destitute, starving, and rioting in the streets....at that point foreign terrorists will not even have to plot and come over here. Our country and our way of life will be destroyed by our own people.

An occasional predator drone missile strike will keep foreign terrorists heads down. Covert assassinations can take care of their leaders.

If my family was killed by terrorists I would personally try to look them up. I don't go whining to the government for anything.

Eventually you have to. so why not work to build bridges and bring togather the etnicities of pastuns togather from both pakistan and afganistan and a proxy security force to control the country. Sooner or later the cost of these adventures will hit the roof and with worsening economy a time will come when the money will dryout. so the longterm prospects are to make a reasonable transition and leave as early as possible. make the pashtuns happy on both sides of the border instead of giving all the money to pakis who will enrich themselves (corrupt miltary and politicians from punjab and karachi urdu speaking military leaders and politcians) with all the money. that will be money ill spent. bring the pastuns togather and encourage them with financial support to give up insurgency and take over a land called pashtuniland. i am sure that will really work since pastuns are not happy with the pakistani punjabi and karachi urdu speaking element running the miltary and politics. also it will give us a buffer zone fro pakistani corrupt military,isi trying to use pastuns for their dirty agendas.

Mr. Hoh is an experienced, seasoned war veteran. He is able to see what is not working. He wanted answers, and failed to get them. I believe if he had any hint of a success in this issue he would have hung in there....fact: no one has won a ground war with Afghans in history---Ghanghis Kahn, may have come close to breaking about even, but no one won, no one lost.............then take Alexander the Great,,study history of Afghanistan, and we are there with no plan, no strategy, and you blame a seasoned veteran from resigning............grow up.

Well said...........Amen..

Obama it is time to speak up now, stop all this BS in Afghanistan and bring the troops back home.Start building up America, schools,jobs, healthcare ect. And that means the same thing on Iraq. Get out ASAP

No they won't. Most Americans can't even find time to go vote. Revolt? Yea right.

We all need to find the time to vote especially now. This is the only way this Government will be cleansed of the self interested screw the people over who can't line my pockets with green non caring of the constitution they supposedly stand for public (?) servants in office.

yes go vote, but better still, demand to see how the votes are counted.

Remember, it doesn't matter who votes, but who counts them.

Americans will revolt or at least realize that our governments are not for us (people) but for special interest groups when we fix our own priorities.

Our society is morally corrupt - look at the politicians "leaders" who are cheating on their own families and we still expect them to be sincere with the country? Many families are part of the rat race - their wants are their needs now, we need to have SUVs, wear designer cloths, and dine in fancy restaurants.

Until we bring moderation and simplicity in our own lives, our poiliticians and greedy businesses will manipulate us the way they want.

For everyone who wants to vote Congress out, guess who is in line to replace them? A bunch of like-minded people who voters wanted even less than the current group. As for the war, we have no idea where Bin Laden is right now. Go in big or get out of there. Too many troops dying. Spend money improving intelligence gathering.

Straight Talk - Sorry to be the one to break this to you but our government is nothing more than a reflection of the society that sent them there to govern. When we go to the polls, the guy who usually wins is the one who makes the best promises. We vote for the guy who tells us exactly what we want to hear. How many politicians can get elected telling the truth? Would you vote for a guy who says "Sorry, we are going to have raise taxes to cover our expensive lifestyles."? No. If a politician ever tried to run a campaign based on the truth he would never get elected. We vote with greed and we get greedy politicians. Go figure...

TimKaso: Youre not breaking any news to me. My comment # 4.4 was not only on politicians but also on our overall society. Besides it was a response to the person who suggested that people will revolt.

The jist of my message was people will revolt only when they care about national issues more than personal issues. Right now I do not see it happening as we are too busy in a rat race. Got it? Our politicians know us people well, and will continue to manipulate us until we change our habits and lifestyles.

Straight Talk - Sorry, I misunderstood your original post and I agree with you.

I so wish(Tim Kaso), that when military experts like Mullen, McCrystal, Petraus , etc, offer up the facts as they are sitting on the hot seat, that someone in d.c. in the "ivory tower" that most likely has never been in a schoolyard scuffle, would stop being narscisstic for long enough to keep from killing our men and women at war, just to "be the first to do something in history"> Is it the hope and wish of this country to remain ours, the peoples, are do we have so many too lethargic to rise up and fight to take back what we have worked for..........Lets fight for our country, not for one who wont give a royal damn til they kill us all off............We wont win a ground war in Afghanastan------and When you walking on my country, you are walking on the wrong side of me,,,,,,,

We could/can do all in which you stated....

but not with odumbo in office. His f**king "I don't know what to do there, let me think" is killing a hell of a lot of troops. Especially since our Generals and even NATO have asked for more troops.

I'd have to pretty much agree with everything you said. It's terrible to have to send more of our men & women in harm's way, but pulling out completely would have a far worst impact.

Well stated. I sympatise with anyone who suffers from PTSD. Maybe, he should find a new line of work and get long term professional help. PTSD doesn't just go away because you apologize to a few people. Serious depression often follows and may be clouding his judgement.

Two people in my family needed help after serving in the military. One after WW2 and the other after Korea. It was just 'nerves' then. There is no shame in seeking help. His service is appreciated, but influencing policy at this time would probably be a mistake for all involved.

FXXXXXXX the Afghan population.

"His f**king "I don't know what to do there, let me think" is killing a hell of a lot of troops."

President Bush did that for seven years.

the Afghan population,WHO CARES?

No Afghani's were included in the attack on 9/11. It was mostly Saudi's and an Egyptian. We and the Pakistanis strengthened the Taliban - but according to this brave man's analysis it goes far beyond the Taliban. The rural majority of the Pastun don't want foreign occupiers and they don't want the Karzai government. Why are we trying to dominate these people. We made our point against Al Qaeda but are just expanding our enemies base by killing Pastun people. We should leave and concentrate on Pakistan.

While I agree with what you wrote rfaber9, I also believe that equally as important as knowing what to do is knowing when to do it. Unfortunately the time for taking the steps you mention has passed. We no longer have the resources or support around the country for many more years of this effort. The Taliban will be back in control. It's their country. Karzai's government does not command the respect of it's citizens.

I have read that we spend $400 for a gallon of gas in Afghanistan. We cannot afford this war. What good is a war when we go bankrupt. We will be fighting our own citizens, our own neighbors when everybody is broke and starving! What's wrong with you people? 8 years of neocons was not enough for you?

The man in the article is a true hero. He fought. He suffered. He has his opinions and solutions. They certainly are more valid then most anything you or I would say. The American voters have asked for an orderly withdrawal from foreign wars and it is time we started doing it.

jEFF.. We cant afford Obama. 1.4 trillion in new debt with Obama. Are you nuts? We are going to be economic slaves to his agenda, from the IMF to this treaty on climate punishment for our progress and for heating our homes and driving our cars. We will be stuck with Obama and a one world order. HE DOES NOT HAVE AMERICA'S BACK. He is not interested in your prosperity, your health and well being and he sure the heck dont care about our Troops!!!!!

Almost 3,000 U.S. citizens died.

many many more die from receiving harmful drugs churned by big pharma and approved by their cronies in agencies. Where's the war on that?

much to the detriment of the Afghan population and the rest of the world.

why the rest of the world? they can run their country to the ground for all we care.

We can then help build a country with the people of Afghanistan and also start to erradicate the massive opium crops which support terrorist activities around the world.

Are you delusional? The Taleban had almost eradicated the poppy crop. Today that industry is thriving.

Yep a captain in the Marine Corp out on a BCD is someone we should listen to when it comes to a strategic plan on Afghanistan. I'm not saying his views should not be listened to but really lets put this in perspective. I'd listen to General McCrystal before I would someone 6 ranks below him!!! Semper Fi

The whole concept represented by an angry us mob is the true problem in this country. Why do so many deem it necessary to always speak with the voice of the dragon rather than with the voice of intelligent reason?

Hmm pig that of course is dependent on ones perspective. Assuming of course you are intelligent and reasonable. I for one believe in speaking softly and carrying a big stick. I also have a understanding of history. I listen to all opinions and consider yours void of intelligence and reason.

Why not listen to the views of someone 6 ranks below? They go out daily doing what is ordered to them and experiencing all kinds of issues. While they may not be able to come up with a strategy to win, listening to what the lower ranks have to say may help.

Kat-I would listen but not take what they say as more valid then those I might trust more. If there is contradictions you investigate. More often then not your Generals know a bit more about strategies.

AngryUSmob - And, more often the generals know squat about what's really happening on the front lines........

angryusmob I did not see a bad conduct discharge in the article but I did read that Hoh came home in the spring of 2007 with citations for what one Marine evaluator called "uncommon bravery," a recommendation for promotion, and what he later recognized was post-traumatic stress disorder. PTSD is something that many of us suffer with when we get back.

AngryUSmob and the other war mongers ... put on your old uniforms if you can still fit those beer bellies into them , take a number and get on the next plane to Afghanistan.

Stop yelling for others to go and possibly die or be maimed for life. All of you could start looking for that little bearded fellow who is rumored to be hiding out in a cave somewhere over there and make him stop the war.

TO: Angryusmob......get your facts before you smear the reputation of a decorated sincere member of our Armed Forces. He did not get a BCD. You almost have to spit on an Admiral or General to get a BCD anymore.....he was mustered out,,,,,,,,,,honorably.................He resigned his commission, not his country.

He wll be ok unless he goes on Fox news--then he'll move to the top of the list

hehe

That's NO credentials - at least Palin was in charge of the Alaskan National Guard.

Thank you FXTSC

Okay Dr. Seuss not in a plane not on a train!!! Hope that my family will not be at the ground zero that you and the rest of the appeasers will create if we pull out. This is like no war we have ever been in. They will come back after us. Let us kill them over there. just makes sense!!!

"Bring the troops home Mr. President."

and the terrorists right behind them!

How about 4 million more - let's kick butt!

Alpha

I'm sure you will be able to reference a site that will document there are 190,000 troops and 70,000 civilian contractors propping up the Afghan govt.......

Here let me look that up for you.

"Earlier this year, Obama authorized a gradual surge of an additional 21,000 troops into Afghanistan. This decision is expected to lift the total to 68,000 by November. There also are 39,000 soldiers from other NATO countries in the war zone."

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/obama/2009/10/01/troop-levels-in-afghanistan-a-critical-decision-for-obama.html

Afghan Army:

"As of May 2009, total manpower is over 90,000 personnel with 100,000 expected by August 2009. ^[10] Facilities and capacity planning efforts are rapidly adjusting to the significant increases in national recruiting efforts to meet manpower needs. A further proposal for expansion to 134,000 was announced in October 2008.^[43] This was modified to a five year goal of 260,000 Afghan troops by President Obama and is supported by the Afghan Defense Ministry."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_National_Army#Personnel_strength

"The number of military contractors in Afghanistan rose to almost 74,000 by June 30"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125089638739950599.html

"The U.S. defense secretary is welcoming news that the Afghan presidential runoff election has been scheduled for November 7, but warns that government corruption is a larger problem that the original fraud-riddled vote."

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-10-21-voa4.cfm

I rest my case. Time to get out of there.

Well done, ADR. Very well done.

.

Alpha. We are already bankrupt.Pretty soon we will be the Repbulic of China, should they call in our loans....It is time to come home, take care of business here, and if those people want to kill each other off,,,,,,,,so be it.
But why do our people have to die, as they did in Nam, for no damn reason but political manure.

So I guess we will be safe within our borders and never let our people travel. we will be loved by the world and safe forever. Yes I believe that I know that we can be just like the Swiss!!! There you go that is our historical perspective the Swiss!!!

How exactly to we guarantee safety of people who travel to other countries? We have no control over that and people NEED to take responsibility for their own traveling.

We need to have a very strong military and if someone attacks us, we take them using everthing we have, short of nukes unless that's called for, certainly tactical nukes are OK.

Ronald Regan once said "there was a time when any Amercian could go anywhere in the world and not a hair on his head would be harmed...How we lost that I do not know."

The "powers that be", out of personal prestige and historic commentary chose to throw all of us to the dogs, (I apologize to dogs) to accomplish bipartisanship---which I could care less if those nimnods ever agree on anything.

Reagan also said: "It's time for bed, Bonzo".

Double apologies to Cicero. It should read:

Quo usque abutere, Obama, patientia nostra.

ixnay on the hombre!

When wars break out somewhere else, we'll just say "sorry, we're sitting this one out".

Problem is, WE started this war...

If I get a response to this pertinent to what it says, I know I'm dealing with someone who either knows the language or took the time to find out what it means. Either way, I'm more likely to be dealing with someone for whom genuine learning is prized and good debate is appreciated as opposed to mere idealogues who mindlessly repeat something they heard either on Olbermann or Hannity.

To Genafan: The official bi-partisan produced reports after 9-11 stated something to the effect that they (al Qaeda et al) were at war with us and we weren't at war with them... Or are you a "truther?"

KJ

There is no point in being a snob. Whatever your point is you don't help it.

KJ latin phrase - literal translation

From all the way to use abusive language Obama, patience our

I wonder what this means?

Been there couch potato why don't you!!

The armed forces is for poor people. It is a great way for the poor to travel and learn a trade. And I salute these brave folks.

I can honestly say that is one of the most degrading remarks I have every read on a forum post...ANY forum post.

From the dolequeue to the regiment a profession in a flash
But remember monday signings when from door to door you dash
On the news a nation mourns you, unknown soldier count the cost
For a second you'll be famous but labelled posthumous

bob123 I consider your statement that the military is for poor people very rude and demeaning to our brave men and women in the armed forces. It is obvious you have no idea what motivates people to serve their country.

I just retired after 26 years in the military. I think 90% is a bit high. Joining the military does offer a chance for someone to get a college education and to perhaps get ahead in the world.

Bob123 - Actually you are quite incorrect in your assessment of what financial class our military personell fall into. There are far more soldiers of the middle class in our military than poor. And by poor I assume you mean those that live below the poverty level. And actually the wealthy have every responsibility to be in the military because it is usually their own fathers promoting the war. In fact I think it should be a requirement that any politician voting to go to war must have their own children on the front lines in the war. I'll bet anything we would have a lot less wars.

The reason the wealthy don't join the military isn't because they feel they need to stay home and run things. It's because they are cowards. It's time for the draft again, and this time no deferments.

Hey dip stick: Bush may have had the Taliban and AQ on the run the first month of conflict, but after that he sat back with his thumb up his ass and did nothing. Then in all of his wisdom he sent the troops to Iraq and let the Taliban and AQ get stronger. You had better read up on your facts a little bit.

How many years did AWOL Bush & Deferment Dicky have them on the run? Those rascaly Taliban...

Oh yeah they just run over and hide out in base camp Pakistan... another great strategic accomplishment by the former administration.

Bob is delusional. And what's with the Urkel reference?

Need I say more?

bob123 thinks that the military is only for poor people. If we started up the draft again and his number got called I wonder if bob would volunteer to go to Canada.

And you were probably a REMF

I was in Iraq and Afghan. Received 70% disability for my bit over there. Still don't think that poor people join the military in high numbers as you claimed.

Bob123 - stop pulling facts out of your ass. You are convincing no one with your made up numbers and making yourself look like a jackass.

Mr. Hoh should stand up for what he believes. Doesn't mean he should be taken seriously!!!

suzen - Spot on. BO either **** or get off the pot

Ummm that is of course a bunch of Happy Horse Sht. Nam and Afghanistan are apples and oranges. When will you people realize that this war will go on. It's better to kill them there then over here. For those of you who believe that that this war on terror is contrived and we leave the battle and come home. I hope your families won't be at the next ground zero. I know people who were on the Cole, in the Pentagon, at the towers...this sht is real and it will be fought here if not over there. Who will get on the wall. The Berkly crowd, the Harvard crowd, the Chicago mob...no they will usher them in.

So true, we never learn.

The British were in Afghanistan before (much before 9/11 so who truly believes the war is against terrorists?), and were defeated; so were the Russians. If we were not able to succeed in Vietnam and Iraq, what makes us think we will in Afghanistan? Apples and oranges or not, seems to me the US just cannot handle them.

I would rather fight them here - at least then you would get the full backing of the people to defend your country.

Nope it is our War!!!

No one...NO ONE...since before Ghengis Freaking Khan has ever executed a successful invasion of Afghanistan. Would someone please enlighten me as to the reason we think we can do it?

I love America, but pure arrogance has always been our strongest suit.

I trust President Obama to make the right decision...this MAY have been the "right" war, but that ship has sailed.

Uhhh actually we just did...what is your definition of success...NO ONE gets killed right....LA LA LA land!!!!

He has both..doesn't mean he is right. What about General McCrystal doesn't he deserve to be heard too if not more.

Yes, Chris, there are those of us that believe when you take a man of McCrystal's expertise, and OJT, and place him in the position he is now filling,,,,,,,,,,you bet your boots he should be heard, loud and clear.....You cannot, nor did you, blame him,,,,,,but the problem is in D.C., not with McCrystal,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is with those that have no clue what it is all about as they never left their ivory towers to get their boots muddy......McCain knows this is a bunch of garbage to stall past the next election over there on the 7th of nov.

Dear Angry:

If you are more willing to listen to General McCrystal than to Hoh because he's 6 ranks above Hoh... does it then logically follow that you'd be more inclined to listen to the General's boss? That would be (ummm - you guessed it) - the Commander in Chief, President Obama. Now that fellow is still getting input and weighing options. A little patience, and then you can consider his decision.

Good post....Not sure what the hell Obama is doing....First he sent more troops, now he is waiting, presumeably for an election, which clearly cannot be done fairly. Troops will continue to die....it is sad.

Didn't he campaign to stop this thing quickly?

The current BO administration is foreign and invading our country and removing our constitution piece by piece. Why do you think they are going towards "mandated" vaccines? The ultimate goal by 2017 is to have everyone implanted with micro-chips via the vaccine shots...a definite sign of the times...good for Mr. Hoh in trying to redeem his soul from the evil and corruption of political government agendas! Those countries have faught civilian localized wars forever. It's THEIR way and will not stop with us there or not there. We can remove their ability to come to the USA by enforcing the immigration laws, etc. We will never comprehend the way they think and act and we have no business over there in any Middle Eastern countries. America needs to swallow it's ego and respect other countrie's ways and cultures just as foreigner's need to respect our constitution and traditions. We've all become lost in this century and may God have mercy in the final chapters as they play out. Greed and Evil have taken hold of compassion and rational thought and human decency.

Airangel I have some land in Florida for sale. Microchips in the vaccine? Really??

but we have killed many more Al Qiada.

Airangel is why I read these posts....little gems like his posts make me laugh allllll day long! Are these people hiding under the same rock? Micro-chips???? ROFLMFAO!!! Can't decide where THAT came from...SyFi or Fox. Oh, hell, my sides are hurting! Can't......stop.......laughing.......gasp!

Spare me. One guy, who probably sould not have been there in the irs place says 'so long'. Gee. Big deal. I would remind you we are still in Germany, Japan, etc, 55 years after the conflict ended. But, since this plays to the lefties agenda, it gets big play. No suprise there. By the way, people also said Hitler could not be defeated. Yawn, another day in leftist-burg.

Scott, if this is the "weakness" of the B.O. Administration, then why is it that the Administration is pretty much in agreement with everything Hoh has stated. Of course, the Pres. himself won't come out and say it, but they know it is A LOST CAUSE!

The local insurgents are the RESULT of a corrupt gov't (supported by the US) and the presence of Western Military who are clearly seen as invaders rather than liberators ...

If anything this is the weakness of the entire war, not the administration.

In the coming weeks you will see the amount of discussions and invitations Hoh will recieve due to his intelligent and timely resignation on grounds that CAN NOT be denied as valid....

B.O. knows this to be true... it is only a matter of time

Afghanistan has become Obama's Iraq! Iraq became Bush's Vietnam! When will our government learn that we cannot impose our will and our form of democracy on other nations, particularly those in the middle and far east? Their culture will never tolerate it!! Thousands of Americans have died in conflicts like these that ultimately yield no gain, only heartache!

he Steve you are CORRECT how many times I ask me the same Question Why do we have to teach other people our beliefs and have to die for in Afghanistan particulary they grow poppies and are good at it everything they needed was paid with poppy-juice we come in and tell them poppies is evil but wheat is good paid by worthless government paper.and I learn laast week that the chineese started Coppermining in the hot zone.If we have no interest in Afghanistan why do we have to send troops,why the chinese don't send troops ?? and if we send troops will it be a sino-american-afghan alliance to plunder the country mineral resources ???I hope for the Afghan people the poppy-juice will prevail and will be free soon

Right, I am sure you only spoke about "Mr. George Bush as President of the United States of America" with the proper respect.

Is he unamerican because he hasn't "fallen in line"? Because he has an opinion that this new administration would deem "unacceptable?"

Get over yourself.....

If you will supply the millions required for me to run for office, and garner some favor with a strong political machine like the Chicago cabal, and get all of the leftist and socialist organizations of the democrat party behind me, and send Acorn out on the streets to cheat, lie and fix votes, I'll happily run for office.