Should there be a penalty for hikers and climbers who use personal locator beacons for non-emergency situations?
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If idiots want to engage in dangerous activities (eg: mountain climbing, etc) they should not expect anyone to risk their own lives saving them.
As for non-emergency situations, they should be penalized by having to pay ALL of the rescue costs.
Uhm..no. We aren't meant to cower in our homes and offices due to the stupidity of others. Living in Utah, we have too many outdoor activities available that can be unexpectedly dangerous (i.e. falls, flash flood, MI, etc.) Let idiots pay for idocracy. I still want to be able to enjoy the out-of-doors knowing that, if my experience fails, I can still be helped out in the event of crisis.
Chad, you couldn't have said it better. I suspect Tina is on her couch right now with a can of Pringles in one hand and the TV remote in the other.
The unexpected can cause emergencies -- a slip-and-fall on a gentle hike in the woods can turn into disaster as night falls. Avalanches routinely hit ski trails, towns and houses. Fires bombard the west coast and can trap people very quickly. Should we assume people have the ability to anticipate every possible danger? Where is the line drawn? Should we bill the Katrina victims for their rescue because they chose to live in an area that is below sea level? Hiking and other outdoor activities keep people in shape and close to nature -- the positives far outweigh the negatives and in the vast majority of cases, the risks.
Non-emergency calls should be penalized as we do with false 911 calls. But people in real emergencies should be treated with compassion and their lives should be valued.
OMG, YES!
As a hiker myself, who lives in the high desert of the southwest US, I KNOW exactly what my limitations are, what my body can take, and how to provision myself. These self-entitled spoiled ignorant brats, who think they can just go out into the wilderness and consider salty water or thunderstorms an emergency are endangering the lives of others who might ACTUALLY be in a REAL emergency.
If you can't handle the realities of hiking, camping, being in the "back country", etc. don't go there.
The rescuers should have smashed the locater device then left them to figure out how to deal with their situation. By removing them it just encouraged them to do it again at another date. Force the idiots to survive in the wild, they won't want to repeat that experience any time soon.
@Bob and Chad
You, two, either have a problem understanding the question or what constitutes a NON-EMERGENCY -- which is what the question is about. If either is true, then neither of you should be leaving your couch, either.
If you go hiking and through some act of Dog -- or even through your own stupidity and it is a TRUE life or death emergency (as opposed to launching a balloon trying to get your own reality show or because your water doesn't taste like a fine aged merlot, then fine... push the button.
However, using them for NON-EMERGENCY -- which means by definition NOT LIFE THREATENING -- should be criminal.
Sadly, though, as one poster points out... I'm quite sure that in most cases in the case of fines... most of the idiots would declare bankruptcy and the system would spend even MORE resources trying to collect on the debt than it cost to save these twits from themselves.
Chad, there should still be a cost, just like if you call an ambulance at a rate that covers the cost for this service. And, if you do activate the EPIRB, you should be removed to a place of safety, no arguments. For those people that are obviously abusing the system by unnecessarily calling rescue services, they should be penalized just the same as people that make erroneous 911 calls. And I am not on a sofa with a beer and potato chips. I have sailed all over the world with an EPIRB and been in many sticky situations because of unpredictable weather and equipment malfunctions, but have always been able to get myself out of trouble. I just hope that if I ever get into something that I can't get out of on my own, that the Coast Guard will respond to my EPIRB and not be sitting on the shore, grounded for lack of funding, because these idiots are abusing the system.
Chad Davis, the question asks if the locator beacons should be used in non-emergency situations. You are describing having the freedom to use the beacon in emergency situations when yes, it is appropriate to use such a device. No one is arguing about that. The way the people in the story are using the device is like dialing 911 because your tap water tastes funny. That is what people are commenting on.
At least read the freaking question before you disagree with it.
I'm sitting at the drive through at McDonald's and they said they just ran out of the texas BBQ burger, which is my favorite. Well, I ordered this burger and I expect to get it, so i'm activating my emergency locator beacon so that the cops can show up and make them get me my BBQ burger. Stupid McDonald's employees.
it should be called "Felony STUPID"
This should be a no brainer........but then people call 911 for stupid things all the time.
My brother an I got my mother a ACR PLB for Christmas last year. She loves to go camping, but often goes alone. She is very responsibly, always checks in with the Rangers, lets them know her plan, and checks in with us when there is cell coverage. We got her the beacon for the 'oh sh*t' moments that even the most experienced hikers face, such as bear attack, sudden blizzard (this years gift is a solar powered super weather device) or other things you can't control and will kill you. The instructions in the ACR didn't mess around, you had to go to a government site to register the beacon, put in a variety of contact numbers, and swear on your grandmother's grave you wouldn't screw around with the device. It has a piece of plastic that covers the button, so it shouldn't accidentally go off. The instructions also let you know that you will most likely pay for the rescue.
I have no problem with my mom having this device, it doesn't encourage her to go where she shouldn't, it just gives us peace of mind in case of the worst. Besides, I would happily figure out a way to pay Search and Rescue if she ever had to use it, as would my father and my borther.
In regards to the article, I must admit after the second rescue of those hikers and their 'salty water' I'd have been tempted to knock them upside the head with that beacon device if I had been one of the SAR people.
Anyone who calls for help in a non-emergency situation should have to pay for it. Its against the law to ditch a cab fare, no one rides for free.......
Charge them the actual cost of the rescue. Rescue calls will drop to near zero. Why should the American tax payers be saddled with this expense? Most of these people knew before they started that they would have a tough time finishing. Being tired is not an emergency, and sure as hell isn't my emergency. We need to use our heads. If using your head doesn't work out for you, you need to pay for the "yuppie 911".
I like the idea of a fine...ON TOP OF the cost of the rescue.
What if that cost isn't high enough to stop them, but a real emergency has to wait until the crews get done with the goofballs? I'd sure hate to be bleeding while the rescue crew got finished with a 'false alarm' like this.
Bud - You make an idiotic point, but let's run with it.
According to your theory we would need to cancel all emergency services that come without a charge..say police and fire. We are not responsible for your faulty wiring or for the heater being too close to some clothing... why should the @!$%#ing taxpayers cover this cost since you were the dip@!$%# who made the mistake or didn't ensure good wiring?
How about the Coast Guard? We don't need them out there saving people... They knew the things that could go wrong when they went out for that salmon charter. Oh, the military? Don't need that taxpayer burder either, the citizens can take care of themselves.
Hell, rest stops along stretches of freeway? Don't need em', taxpayer waste (think of all that free coffee they are giving away!!!!!). Hey what about welfare? OK I can go along with welfare. Let's ditch that, rather than the safety net we extend to those in need of real assistance.
---from a member of SAR---
WaveriderJ, maybe you should re-read Bud's comment. he said nothing about doing away with taxpayer-funded emergency services. What he did say was that fools who abuse such systems should be fined to make up for the cost of the rescue. Personally, I agree with Neil-798344 in that those who call emergency rescue sevices for NON-emergency situations should be fined over and above the cost of the rescue. BTW, which Search-and-Rescue outfit do you belong to?
they should have to pay for the rescue and be fined on top of it
We are paying for the rescue...where do u think that money comes from? and while a compound fracture isn't life threatening in my book it may be to another individual. There is no clear cut definition that works for everyone.
Djfargo, did you even read the article? These people weren't injured by anyone's definition.
A compound fracture in the middle of nowhere isn't an emergency?
Agree that they should be FINED - AND - PAY all costs associated with the rescue, helicopter rental, Overtime pay for all involved, ** PLUS ** they should be neutered to prevent reproduction of TWITS -- PLUS -- their parents should be fined bringing up such GOOFs!
I couldn't agree more...in theory. What a crop of total assdom. Are these people even conscious?
made my day, thanks
you are so right
At 5K a pop to activate a helo and rescue personell for a stupid tourist, those people have no damn business being out there in the first place, they need to stay at home instead of creating a nuscance of themselves and endangering rescue personell!
I love being outdoors and have never needed rescue but if I ever do I hope the service is available. Regarding idiots pushing the button for non-emergencies, they should be fined.
If a rescue beacon device is designed in such a way that it could be accidentally triggered in someone's pack then the manufacture should pay for the fine and hopefully redesign the device to be foolproof.
dumb-as little spoiled city kids whose mama never took them skiing, for fear they would break an arm are now trying to prove they are real men. Wonder if they wear the stupid big white sneakers and white socks when they set out? I'm sure they feel no remorse, as the world owes them everything, and always has.
Tourists have been a major problem causing land closures and bad feelings between park services and real outdoors people, fine them and make them pay for any and all services render by rescue services!
The National Park Service has a "heinous stupidity" clause in the SAR policy. Too bad they don't use it as often as it's earned...
This lifesaving technology should remain available, but if the situation turns out not to be a real emergency, such as the Grand Canyon hikers in the article, they should be charged the costs plus a hefty fine. I also agree anyone activating the beacon should not get the choice to remain, should be removed immediately.
If I accidentially set the security alarm off at my home more than 2x a year I get fined - and I should. I have not been that stupid yet but the police have much bigger crime and limited resources to take care of than to come rescue me in my home when nothing is wrong. If I am that stupid I should be fined the FIRST time! So should these idiots!! My mother is diabetic and wears a chain on her neck to press the button for help if she falls, for example. She has never used it but she has neighbors who are diabetic who use it to call for emergency service everytime they feel light headed when they could go eat a graham cracker like my mother does. I think EMS should fine them, too, after a time so they learn to pop a sugar pill and sit and wait a few minutes to see if that solves the problem first. My mother is willing to do so. Abuse of my tax dollars, in any form, is abuse. My husband and I live in the Sierras. We love to walk but we don't hike into unsure areas we don't know. If we did, the only way we would learn not to be stupid would be to have EMS hit us in the pocket book. It's a very quick learning tool.
They should ge two becon requests. After that Darwin should judge weather the y live.
Make every one of the devices have a warning in the owners manual, kind of like the "don't use the this hair dryer in the shower", that states that "use in anything BUT an actual emergency situation WILL result in the user having to pay for all rescue costs, loss of the device, a fine being levied AND probation or possible jail time for a false report". After the individual has abused the system the first time also ban them from leaving any regularly patrolled tourist areas in any local, state or national parks for a set period of time, say 2 years.
If the devices don't already have an ID tag on the signal make the manufacturers add that feature and also make it so the device can't be activated or used until it is registered and all information verified. This would make it so that the instant the button is pushed the authorities would also know the name and address of the owner of the device.
No one has the right to put others (SAR teams and those who might actually be in danger and the SAR team is otherwise engaged) at risk with frivolous calls for help. Fines, paying the cost for the call, removal from the scene AND having their names publicized should all be imposed. This should also apply to frivolous calls by boaters. And if alcohol is involved, legal penalities should also be imposed.
If you do a stupid things you should get insurance to do that. I don't think tax money should be spend for somebody who is stupid
I wonder if the Grand Canyon schmucks in the article (2 families, 2 generations none the less...absolutely terrifying) ever realized what schmucks they were, or if they thought calling for emergency assistance in the Grand Canyon was like whistling at a waitress in Applebees.
Buy a special insurance policy for evacuation. Medjet assist is one. Gov't shouldn't be doing civillian rescue.
"Gov't shouldn't be doing civilian rescue."??? What do you call your cities fire dept. coming to your house to put out a fire? Sorry, that's the Gov't doing a "civilian rescue."
... that makes no sense at all.
Not just fines. They should be billed for the total cost. I don't take risks that may require other people to pull my ass out of the fire. Why should my taxes pay for stupid decisions by idiots that do?