That's right. (a) Sunni's and Shiites. (b) Religion of Peace.

I'm oddly comforted to see MSNBC has not lost the path of revisionist history and Bush bashing...as anyone over the age of thirteen will remember, every US President since Carter, has/had known and said on multiple occasions that Saddam had "WMD's", including Clinton, he Used them on his own people in retaliation for support of Iran during the Iran vs. Iraq war. virtually ever intelligence agency in the world, except China and Russia, said it was likely that he had "WMD's" or was working to get them, Saddam himself said in interviews he had them and would use them If attacked, and said in an Interview that as soon as sanctions were lifted he would relaunch those efforts that he was forced to shut down

It is my guess that within weeks before the war started

1. the vast majority of "WMD's" were evacuated by "interested parties" into neighboring countries

2. "WMD's" were found by invading forces, and imbed reporters seem to show this many times, only to find out these barrels of Chemicals full of warning labels were tested and were not Chemical Weapons, even though field test were positive. The true level of Saddams weapons programs will never be truely revealed because the finger prints of our "allies" were all over them

I think it was 1998 when the CIA was too cautious and determined Pakistan did not have nuclear weapons. They tested their nukes shortly thereafter. In 2002 determined not to make the same mistake, they went overboard the other direction and determined Iraq did have WMDs. Now they might be once again learning the wrong lessson from history. In their defense, it's not as easy as everyone believes it to be; every country in the world works hard to keep their military capabilities a secret. Every country including the US tries hard to hide what they have while encouraging other nations to believe they have capabilities they really don't. Let's hope a big mushroom cloud isn't the first hint we have that we were wrong again.

380steve...Have you ever read the Qur'an?  Do you even know the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite?  Do you have any Muslim friends or even know any Muslims?  JohnCarter-428979 is right about the lies coming from the White House.  Iraq wasn't enough?  The American Constitution has been bent so far it's about to break and the economy is in ruins.  You can thank your government for that, and for the perception the rest of the world has about America.

Iran will test a bomb within a year. The world as well as our dear leader will not be able to stop this. Sanctions will not work, never did.

Best example is North Korea.

Saddam killed over 180,000 of his own countrymen using gas, now termed WMD... this has been shown on videos and is not disputed. Factually, this was included in his trial prior to his hanging. Another fact is that Saddam was given 3-4 months notice prior to the invasion that "we're gonna come over there... you've got 'em, we're comin..". Lo and Behold, we found evidence of none. Do the same with a major city's crack dealer, you'll likely get the same results.

The aruguement of inavading over false information over WMD's is old and innaccurate... however, invading over false pretenses is not. Surprisingly, not many differentiate between the two.

That's where the problem comes in to play. For similar reasons, this is not our business, and is not a threat to us. For many reasons, I would contend this isn't a threat to anyone if in fact they are building some nukes for missile capabilities. Nuclear nations do not use nuclear weapons; the only one that did is the one that is supposedly concerned about Iran even obtaining them, because of fear and dislike.

Many will now speculate as to who, what, where, when and why... many distractions. We have immediate problems facing us; how to fix our economy, what was the factual cause of it, what needs changed in Our system of governing, what's wrong with our Career Politicians and what is being done about all of this here and now.

Instead, we're fed distractions... Iran Might be gearing towards nuclear weaponry, Iran Might use it even at it's own demise, Iran Might... . In the meantime, legislative bandaids and Fed Reserve's interests are being pushed through, attempts to have them signed, without much thought or consent of the American Populace. Legislation that is not moderate, not of the consensus of the majority, not of the Middle Class that can decide more impartially. More of the same, and worse. Divisiveness at it's best, divide and conquer techniques.

So who should we fear?

hey moderation

“Here is what I would do”

If my word was Law and I could do anything I wanted to do, I would appoint myself Dictator for “1” six year term after which I would bequeath myself a 5 acre plot 100 miles from the nearest road and never be heard from again!!! The US Military would have Standing and Irreversible orders to remove me from office after 6 years and to re-instate the current form of government, by force if necessary,

My first act would be to call for new elections for all federal, state, city, local, county, neighbor hood positions, with all “Americans” knowing exactly what I’m planning to do. The US military would run this election to ensure that each and every “American” votes once and only once…After these elections, the new (or current, but I doubt it) House, Senate, and President would be sequestered in a single building, on every wall of that building, and every computer screen saver, would be the Constitution of the United States…also in that building would be the current Supreme Court (for continuity) a couple dozen other experienced federal judges, a couple dozen constitutional scholars, and a couple dozen experts in Law and Law enforcement…The sole purpose of this Body (for the next 5 years) would be to rewrite all of the Nations laws as they saw fit, with complete, absolutely complete transparency to the American public…I would direct each State, county, city, local, neighborhood, in their turn to rewrite each of their laws as they saw fit, again with complete transparency to their electors. I would make no requirements on this process, but would like to see a separated body created, with no loyalties to any of the three / four bodies, either elected or appointed from the states, whose purpose would be to investigate, any and all government misconduct and to release any findings to the justice department and the public at large. (That thing the media should be doing)

My Purpose during these 6 years would to oversee the day to day of the nation and to insure the current and future security of America and to Rebuild our Economy, end Unemployment, Poverty, Crime, and get the nation out of debt, and to begin rebuilding the nations infrastructure with the most current technology (Yes We Can)

The first step is to reset our economy, to be more in line with the rest of the world.

I would first reduce everything by 90%...for the sake of math,

If you are making $50.00 per hour today tomorrow you’ll make $5.00 per hour

If you’re paying $1000.00 per month for housing, now you’re paying $100 per month

If your $50,000 in debt today, tomorrow you are $5,000 in debt

your electric goes from100 to 10…ok you get the picture everything by 90 %...this is important because it effectively does not change anyone’s life, it’s a wash, nobody gets hurt anymore than anyone else, this applies to individuals as well as entities and businesses

If you have a $1,000,000 in the bank, tomorrow you’ll have $100,000***THIS IS IMPORTANT***…because with this $900,000 X 50,000,000 accounts (wild azz guess) = 45,000,000,000,000 (trillion) I will instantly pay off all of National Debt and begin a infrastructure upgrade that will put all able bodies back to work, a portion of the remainder will go into a “lock box” to insure the long-term viability of many of our troubled social programs, a portion of this will go to each state on a per capita basis. With any luck there would be enough left over for a total tax cessation while we re-write our tax laws.

This 90% reduction should accomplish a couple of things which may not be readily obvious, in particular is the trend of the last 40 plus years of losing the American manufacturing Jobs to overseas lower cost labor markets, we would see most of those jobs return, and maybe Foreign companies would open factories in America to take advantage of our highly skilled and low cost labor force, leading to a second era of American Manufacturing Dominance…

Our trade imbalance would disappear and probably become a trade surplus, as our store shelves would be filled with high quality American products that would be price competitive with lower quality foreign products.

As for crime and poverty, I believe that once anyone that wants to succeed, can succeed, has a chance to succeed, the problem will be largely solved…I am not naive enough to believe that some people will not strive for a life of crime, but once the mitigating factors are removed, I believe the vast majority of Americans will be willing to enforce our laws, once the pity factors are removed. I think a large percentage of Americans believe that Criminals are Criminals because they had no other choice.

During my second week in office, I would begin rebuilding our education system…the first 6 years of school would remain largely unchanged…I believe these early years are important because they build the character traits that are important for human interaction and conflict resolution, they also allow parents “the baby sitter effect”, I would try to re-instill the qualities of self discipline, self control, and self esteem back into our schools. The first 6 years would concentrate on the basics of reading, writing, and mathematics, but at much higher levels than are common today… But would also emphasize, foreign language classes, as these are the years in which languages are easily learned, and an emphasize on health and living healthy lives, and avoiding societal pitfalls that lead to unhealthy lifestyles, (drug addiction, promiscuity,…)…classes would be included in computer literacy and technology, because the next 6 years would largely be internet based, and for most students would largely be home based.

There would still be a required curriculum (OUTLINED by a National Education Board, and the blanks and details would be worked out at the state and local level with parental input), where each student would be required to “log-in” and complete required classes, but the also would be a large database of ala carte classes where student can follow threads of subjects they are interested in (extra credit)…for the record, I am a high school graduate who feels/felt that most of the time I spent in school was a waste of time and money, and had only a few teachers who really enjoyed teaching and was competent in the subjects they were teaching...Who I would really like to see teaching all of our kids, are the few hundred truly exceptional teachers across the nation and the world…Imagine if your child could be taught “history” by a would class, college, history professor instead of public school teacher who read the chapter he/she is planning to teach the night before. Imagine if you child could be taught “economics” by the Fed Chairman. Imagine if your child could be taught “cooking” by Emiryl. Imagine if your child could be taught “Physics” by Stephen Hawkings and “Math” by Einstien and “Biology” by …ok you get the picture, and Imagine that these teachers could teach your children, regardless of your wallet or station in life, at a much reduced cost to what we are paying now…Imagine if your children could be taught next week about new discoveries and advances instead of waiting years for that Information to make it into text books. And imagine that all these classes and many, many, many more could also be at your finger tips.

Now we can talk about college if you want, but if the second six years are as effective as I believe they will be, your student will probably walk onto campus with as much knowledge as any professor…but I would still not change college much, because it is more about building adult relationships and becoming an adult, as any value it has to education…besides who would want to miss a good “Kegger”

Submitted for discussion…

a little off topic

Can some one tell me how NY is charging this guy with attempting to use weapons of mass destruction...did we change the definition of "WMD's" after Bush left office to include hydrogen peroxide??????????????

This just makes me giddy with excitement.

Iran is going to develop nukes right under our noses because we blew our credibility and resources on Iraq. ;)

This ought to make for some interesting TV.

There's a huge difference.  Mr Obama is President now.  Nothing else matters.

I'm thrilled that Obama is not letting his cabinet, AIPAC, and Israel, bully him into another war. Bring all the troops home from the Middle East, and let history run it's course. We are still being manipulated by the miss-information the media uses for its own gain. Take care of security inside the USA.

I'm oddly comforted to see MSNBC has not lost the path of revisionist history and Bush bashing...as anyone over the age of thirteen will remember, every US President since Carter, has/had known and said on multiple occasions that Saddam had "WMD's",

a.w.riddels - In 2003 it doesn't matter what Carter thought Iraq had, or what Clinton said Iraq had; you make a decision to go to war based upon current intelligence not assessments which were already 5 years old. Despite loud and persistent claims by the Bush administration that Iraq presented a clear and present danger, U.N. inspectors were finding nothing. Yet in March of 2003, in we went ...and found nothing.

You speak of revisionist history, devised by "Bush bashers", but in support of your beliefs you offer only Saddam Hussein's own pronouncements and the wild suppositions that either the Weapons of Mass Destruction were secretly whisked out of the country weeks before the invasion or that our very own allies somehow connived to suppress discovery of these weapons; apparently our own troops, by far the largest contingent of the invading forces, just sat by and watched while this was done.

You present no evidence of either activity; you preface your claims with the words, "It is my guess that within weeks before the war started". In short you are attempting to invent facts to support your own revisionist history.

Face it there was no meaningful stores of WMD in Iraq at the time of our invasion. Despite his loud pronouncements to the contrary, Saddam Hussein had never successfully reconstituted his weapons programs. He did not spirit vast stores of WMD out of the country, which was under constant aerial surveillance; he was too busy finding a glorified septic tank to hide in.

We invaded Iraq on the basis of faulty and contrived intelligence regarding the current threat presented by Saddam Hussien. Anybody who says otherwise is themselves revising history.

Dman just rocked it...

spot on post!!

Avoid dealing with IRAN by military force at all costs...

after all, a country does have a legitimate right to self defense/preservation of its people, even if the president stole an election and is a religious fanatic, right?

The only part of this article I have a real problem with is the part about Obama not wanting to take on a third war.

Um, excuse me?

He already has when he started sending bombers and drones and troops across the Pakistani border.

He even one-upped Bush on this one because he did it with no explanation at all.

Sorry folks, but Obama IS fighting 3 wars now.

As for Iran, they have been completely compliant with the requests of the IAEA and the international community, and there is no valid reason, or evidence, to believe they're building bombs.

Can anyone explain why Israel, a non-signatory to the NPT, has hundreds of them and has refused to allow IAEA inspectors into the country? Where's the reporting of this? Where is the criticism of this?

Could they be any more hypocritical? Or more dangerous?

No proof, except for the fact that the Iranians themselves have admitted that they are working on a nuclear weapons program...

but I would also call that suspect!

"This time, by all accounts, there is no White House-led march toward war. ...", which tells me that this time, the current U.S. administration hasn't been duped by that Jewish state in the Middle East, or at least as much as, Bush Jr.'s was.

Let me guess, you are a hater of the Jewish/Hebrew faiths?  Btw, I'm neither.

Non-existence of evidence is not evidence of non-existence.

Too much history makes this point indisputable.

The first step is to reset our economy, to be more in line with the rest of the world.

I would first reduce everything by 90%...for the sake of math,

If you are making $50.00 per hour today tomorrow you’ll make $5.00 per hour

If you’re paying $1000.00 per month for housing, now you’re paying $100 per month

If your $50,000 in debt today, tomorrow you are $5,000 in debt

And we're supposed to take you seriously?

And I guatantee you that if someone else had proposed the educational reforms you propose, you would call him/her a communist. ie. too much governmental control!

I will let the Iranian leadership speak for themselves:

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

"[There is] no significant need for the United States."

"Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."

Gee, I wonder what they're trying to tell everyone........

...and there is no evidence that President Obama wants to add a third war to his responsibilities.

Well, he can't handle the ones he has now. As Commander and Chief, I would have thought he would talk to his Commanding Generals, but I guess, based on his record, he just doesn't want anymore bad news so he has only talked to General McChrystal once in the last 70+ days. So, off he goes to pander for Chicago's bid on the Olympics. I say, get your Presidential ars home and take care of our troops and start acting for the benefit of all US citizens.

I missed something, again. Why can't Israel fight their own fights? Don't they have nuclear weapons? If our "allies" think something is up, why don't they step up and take the ball? Does anyone think Israel can't wipe their as$ with Iran? Why can't we keep our noses out of it?

Our efforts are possibly the last thing standing in the way of a Middle East war. If the President fails to talk Aquavelvajihad into disarming then Israel will pick it up from there. We should avoid that if at all possible.

justice: I see you have been listening to Fox again. That is their big thing about Obama not talking to McChrystal for 70 days. Why do you think he need to talk to him. He gets updates every day, why do you people think there needs to be a face to face. Or even phone conversations. Do you not think the president is getting the info he needs? Get real.

You don't have to worry about Obama's cabinet bullying him into a war.. Why not? because almost 10 months into his presidency, he has only bothered to fill 40% of the cabinet positions! Instead, he has end-run the constitution and appointed some 30 "Czars" who need no congressional approval and answer only to his majesty. Can you imagine the media uproar if a republican president did the same thing? They would be SCREAMING!

What's even more trouble is that the Presidents Advisors are telling him he would have to shoot down israeli fighters if they took matters into their own hands and crossed Iraqi Airspace.

Really, Shooting down an Allies fighter planes. He wouldnt dare. He would be de-throwned withing moments after giving the order. And yes I said thrown because the POTUS thinks he more than just the President.

NO WMD in Iraq?????

Where did the 550 Tons of 'Yellow Cake' come from, that Iraq just sold to Canada?????

The US Marines that are still suffering from nerve damage. Because they were down-wind of a AMMO dump that the US Army blew-up....... Explain your beliefs of no WMD to them....

When the Marines secured Tuwaitha, the workers there testified that Saddam would have had a working nuclear bomb by 2005........... There were at least three other nuclear sites that where never inspected by the UN or IAEA.......

Believe the stories published by the media, but do not expect the Marine's to be fools like you.........

malocchio, Israel is not the reason we invaded Iraq. The real reason, WMDs aside, is oil. Plain and simple. Israel would much prefer that we pull our troops out of Iraq so that Israel can bomb Iran's nuclear facilities all the way back to Genesis. Demanding that another country drop its guard so we can fill up our SUVs for cheap is pretty arrogant foreign policy, don't you think? Wouldn't you rather see a scientific breakthrough that would eliminate the need for fossil fuels, something that is cheap, efficient, environmentally safe and doesn't have to be imported from elsewhere? If so, then I suggest we stay in touch with Israel. Israel leads the world in research and development of alternative energy.

Verno:

What a twit. I didn't get it from Fox. I got it from McChrystal's mouth on CBS' "Face the Nation" last Sunday morning.

For God sakes, Obama is Commander and Chief (the leader of our military, major decision maker). That's how it has been since President Washington. Obama is not just a policy-making, political symbol for change and leader of the liberal United States of America.

Saddam could have avoided a fight if was compliant with 1441. Although the ispectors sais that they didnt find anything they also said that they were not allowed to curtain facilities at certain times. Then they were kicked out of the country.

Saddam even said during his interview after his cature that he wanted the US to think he had WMD's. So if he would have been compliant and let the inspectors do thier jobs he could have saved his butt.

If the US truly didnt know that there were no WMD's why were we in MOPP all the time. I was hot and wanted to take the darn thing off. MOPP gear is not the best gear to fight in.

Mistah Kurtz shows his prejudices.

And for his information, I've had both Sunni and Shiite friends. And yes, read the Koran. The bottom line is Iran is FULL OF IT! So get over yourself and your entitlement. You can take comfort in any state headed by religion is a sorry state, which means Iran is no worse than any other religious state, oh, and no better either. And yeah, I do believe states with secular rules are UNIVERSALLY better. That would even include states like, I don't know, Myanmar. That's how low on the totem pole Iran's leadership is. You know, the Clerical one...the one actually in charge.

welcome to an age of dumbfounded decisions !!..there are complexities the administration is completely unaware of, not to mention the General Public..I'm amazed of all the verbal propaganda from all directions..what do we do?? fight/ strike due to accusations and bad talk..or fight/ strike once attacked ??..who's the BULLY here, them, US or Israel ??..are we at WAR with the World ?? are we the Dominate Police of the World ??..are they scared, due to all the nukes, Israel and USA have ?? and want balance..these War Mongers everywhere are the SICKNESS of this planet..from gangs on up...Violence Begets Violence, Duh !!!..Live by the Sword, die by the Sword..I guess, famous Last Words did NOT, Ring a Bell..Blood and Guts everywhere, no wonder we need health care !! LOL........

We are not dealing with Saddam! He was a power hungry dictator. Ahmadinejad is insane. He thinks he is the chosen 1.

Launching an EMP attack with rather simple nuclear bombs is far easier than developing long-range ballistic nuclear missiles for a direct attack. It is also considerably safer for the attacking country.

Caroline Glick noted recently in the Jerusalem Post that an "article published in Iran's security journal Nashriyeh-e Siasi Nezami in 1999 identified an EMP attack as a way to defeat the U.S. as a military power and as a state."

It is also worth noting that a nuclear weapon detonated 180 miles above the United States would generate an EMP pulse that experts say would instantly plunge half the country into the technological 1800s.

Now that Iran is allmost capable of launching satellites, Tehran needn't worry about developing ICBM capabilities. In the same Jerusalem Post article, Glick writes, "Three to five nuclear bombs of any size, launched into space on satellites and detonated above the U.S., Europe and Asia would send Western Civilization back to the 19th century.

It is simply astonishing that Western intelligence agencies are ignoring the threat posed by an Iranian satellite-launched EMP attack.

According to Shia lore, the [12th] Imam is a messianic figure who, although in hiding, remains the true Sovereign of the World. In every generation, the Imam chooses 36 men, (and, for obvious reasons, no women) naming them the owtad or “nails”, whose presence, hammered into mankind’s existence, prevents the universe from “falling off”. Although the “nails” are not known to common mortals, it is, at times, possible to identify one thanks to his deeds. It is on that basis that some of Ahmad-inejad’s more passionate admirers insist that he is a “nail”, a claim he has not discouraged. For example, he has claimed that last September, as he addressed the United Nations’ General Assembly in New York, the “Hidden Imam drenched the place in a sweet light”.

Ahmadinejad announced his intention to stand for president. Now, he boasts that the Imam gave him the presidency for a single task: provoking a “clash of civilisations” in which the Muslim world, led by Iran, takes on the “infidel” West, led by the United States

Jeremy,

Israel is quite willing to fight their own fights. We called them back once and had our fighters intercept them during a test flight over "our" airspace in Iraq. (Was it a test flight or the real thing?)

I believe that in denigrating Israel and worrying about nukes in Iran our current president has forgotten that Israel already has nukes! It is wise not to bully our "former" allies like Israel and UK the way Obama has done. They have nukes. His buddies in Iran are only working on it.

Well everyone can see what has happen to the US when GOD has been cast out by the left. Religion is key in any country, with out it nobody cares or is willing to help there neighbor. I can understand that a country cant base it's desions on religion but there is a place for it. Religion has brought us laws and common respect. The foundation of our country.

Our country needs more GOD in it.

I find Gary Sick's theory of "breakout capability" very interesting...I guess you can equate to the use of a radar detector on the highway...It's legal to sell and legal to possess, but it's illegal to use...

Odumbo has to get this right the first time, no margin for error here, seriously. If he bombs and they don't have nuke ambitions, that's bad. If he doesn't bomb and they do have nuke ambitions, that's worse. Iranian Mu la's are not sane. Once they have the bomb, they will use it to start war between the Muslims and Jews.

If we bomb, and IF POTUS does it right and issues a statement to the iraian people saying we will back them against their leaders who have put them in this postion. They will revolt and overthrow the mulla's and he POTUS will be known for all times, as the President that freed a nation.

Actually, we'll probably just let Israel do the bombing. I mean, you know they want to sooo badly.

There are some major differences between this situation and Iraq's supposed WMD:

1) We came off the First Gulf War with good international cachet. But then we squandered it by the ill-advised Second Gulf War. Because we attacked essentially alone and on discredited intelligence, we provided Iran with an important diplomatic opening --- "the U.S. lied once, how do you know they're not lying again?" This is going to be very tough to overcome.

2) While Sadaam has destroyed his WMD stocks (and like virtually all dictators kept strangely careful records), we failed to believe either him or the IAEA inspectors. This gave a second diplomatic opening to Iran, "Sadaam destroyed all his WMD and the U.SA. attacked anyway, why do you think that if we stopped all heavy-water reactors and uranium enrighment that the U.S. would treat us any differently?" Again, this will be very difficult to overcome.

3) We had imposed sanctions against Iraq and they were working far beyond our most optimistic expectations. The economy was in a state of freefall at the time of the Second Gulf War with the currency essentially worthless and the infrastructure failing from neglect before the war added incredible levels od destruction on top of it. That's one of the reasons why the infrastructure in Iraq still has not recovered. That gives Iran a third diplomatic opening, "There have already been three rounds of increasing sanctions against us and our economy is badly damaged with inflation already at 400% per year and whole sectors of the economy destroyed for at least 20 years. Why do you think another round of sanctions will hurt us more?" This one will be a little easier to overcome because we have omitted Iran's dependence on imported gasoline and jet fuel from sanctions. Sanctions that included these items would essentially bring down the rest of the economy and cripple the military as the fuel reserves were shifted to support the Revolutionary Guard. While other targets may be difficult to hit, Iran's four refineries are extremely vulnerable to Tomahawk attack as are the bridges that connect Iran to Russia and their port facilities should we need to "punish" violations.

4) Over 80% of the Arab world is Sunii. Sadaam was Sunii and the Sunii ruled Iraq even though they accounted for less than 25% of the population. Iraq was a Arabic-speaking country (except for the Kurdish north.) If Sadaam fell, Arabs felt that they would have lost a prominent Sunii supporter. On the other hand Iran is Shiia (over 90%) and is not Arabic-speaking (they are Persian [Indo-European] and speak Farsi.) Their only natural ally in the Muslim world is Iraq (that is about 60% Shiia) but they fought a war with Iraq 1980-88 that was extremely bloody and not forgotten. This is why a Sunii coalition in the First Gulf War was so important and the lack of it in the Second Gulf War so problematic. But it makes any attack against Iran very complex --- a go-it-alone approach to Iran that did not include a coalition similar to that GHW Bush put together could well unite the Muslim world behind Iran and against us. The situation is complex and needs to be handled carefully.

5) Iraq has dispersed its military facilities with little rhyme nor reason. And they failed to harden or disperse command and control centers. It made them good targets. Iran, on the other hand has moved its target facilities far inland to prevent attacks such as the Israeli attack on the Iraqi reactor. And the facilities are mostly very hardened. If you go on Google Earth and look at the Qom enrichment site, you will see several interesting features: a) It is deep underground with only one axis of approach. This means that cruise missiles can be shot down easily and low-level fighters and even stealth bombers (who must show themselves as their bomb bay doors open) must attack along a single axis that can be heavily defended. In fact, you can see one SAM site along that axis and another (probably future S-300PMU2/SA-20) just offset to the north of the axis. b) Most of Iran's nuclear facilities are co-located with military bases to keep special ops forces from having access. c) Their command and control is largely unknown and considered to be very hardened and fiber-optic landline-based. c) The penetration times to reach most of the targets give the Iranians plenty of time to launch responses against Israel or American bases or assets in the Gulf in response. Our assets in the Gulf are especially vulnerable because of their susceptibility to overwhelming numbers of surface-to-ship missiles and limited room to maneuver.

Lots of people are spouting nonsense with "nuke 'em" and air strikes and stealth bomber strikes and such. And even more are assuming that Israel could pull something off similar to what they did with Iraq. This is nonsense. Iran is a much tougher nut to crack and probably would not be possible for the Israeli's without a huge commitment of their air forces that would leave them extremely vulnerable if it failed. And the Iranians are not stupid. They know these things as well as we do. That's why they have been so quick to thumb their noses at saber-rattling.

This one is going to have to be handled carefully and a reaction carefully be put together piece by piece. Done right, the Muslim world will support it and Iran will be painted into a corner of its own making and little to no American treasure or blood will be spent. Done wrong, the whole thing can blow up with unpredictable consequences for the next 30-50 years. And if you think this is an exaggeration, you can look back historically at the end of WWII and see a lot of British and some Russian mischief behind the continuing troubles in Korea, the Asian Subcontinent, and the Middle East.

1screamin - "God Is Dead" - you have not heard?

I don't know which "God", you are referring too? There are so many. This God thing has brought more death, destruction and suffering to humanity than anything else on earth. I would say much more Jesus and a lot less God would go along ways to making this a better world.

Iran is in the cross hairs of Israel and Israel has given a end of year option for the United States and interested parties to inspect, report and verify or the plants go under attack. Though Israel may not wait till the end of the year, if you hold stock and have realized some gains it might be wise to take your profit soon and put the rest into those that will profit from WAR. Consumer confidence is down and looks like a grim Xmas season, again. Slime inventories so no 70% discounts this year.

Have a nice day..........

Screaming eagle, this is just one example demonstrating that organized religion, although it does still serve some functions for some individuals, is incredibly DYSFUNCTIONAL for humanity as a whole. Religion has always provided handy excuses for terrible behaviors from slavery to genocide. This current situation with Iran is no different.

So Brian you think it better Obama should take a pass, because he may piss off the Iranians. In other words killing 6 million more Jews is still ok by world standards. Maybe Obama should stay in the White House and work on this countries problems, that he has caused with his self serving speeches, starting the job killer Cap & Trade bill, health care bill, Green Jobs BS, not running over the world begging to host the 2016 Olympia games in Chicago so he can sit on a thrown "see who I am all must bow before me". What did you people vote in it sure wasn't a President. One thing about past Presidents they weren't running over hell when the country was in trouble that for sure. Obama pissed off France, for not bring up at the G20 meeting that Iran had another site, because Obama was still trying to kiss Iran's a$$. He will be kissing there a$$ when the first bomb is dropped on the Jews. I could do a better job running the country than this you voted in.

Well you can look at at google map and see the 5 SAM sights that surround Tehran. It's the only star of dave pattern in Iran.. LOL! set up in the same soviet style pattern radar in middle of the battery.

Chris -

Good post and analysis. None of the Sunni countries want Iran to have the capabilities and the country (Iran) may need a war to bring the country together. If not Iran may fall into a civil war or chaos may be a constant for the country as it moves forward. Total destruction of the plants is not necessary a barrage of bombings could put things off for another 5 to 10 years. This is indeed a sort of chess game and the stakes are high. The Kurds in the North West can make lots of trouble for Iran in lands which are in dispute. There a many pieces to this puzzle, we need to proceed with smarts.

I guess that we should just wait until a nuclear weapon is used against US and then maybe we will do something about it. Oh wait, that would be too late. Timmay!

I support our current efforts and hope we are successful in bringing Iran and Imanutjob back from the brink of an Israeli airstrike. If we fail the assured destruction of these facilities is only the beginning of the ugly spectacle sure to follow. I'm hoping cooler heads will prevail with Aquavelvajihad and Israel in their corners I'm not going to be shocked when the hostilities break out.

This is not an American problem the middle east is just that. N. Korea is pushing to be able to hit Hawaii. Iran is pushing to hit Israel. I say let them just finish their wars. They have been fighting over the same religious junk for ever. We need to get our troops out and step aside.

The rest of the UN can either step in or do what they do now nothing. Its not our fight. when these countries actually get something that can actually hurt us. And they actually pose the threat. And make threats. Then we would have the capacity for an all out war.

the only reason so many other Nations are even thinking about Us is our involvement with Israel. Look if you have a brother that keeps getting into fights. And you always fight for him. He wont ever be able to defend himself. What does Israel do for us as a nation??

Our country cannot even fix our roadways bridges and infrastructure. Yet we want to spend billions helping others. We have to take care of our country before we take care of the world.

"Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. -Barack Huusein Obama-He makes us sing about him, with out consulting Mama;

Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Barack Hussein Obama-has no testicular fortitude in dealing with Osama;

What can we do as children, to help him do his job?

Vote the weak link out, and elect someone from the mob!

He says education's important, and wants us to do our best.

But he apologizes to everyone, while our soldiers are on it's quest.

Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. -Barack Hussein Obama-You lie to all you lead, foregoing all our Kharma."

Indoctrinate that into children and let them know where this empty suit really stands. We have a very weak president who has no moxy, balls or an iota of foreign intelligence. He won't even speak to his generals, because he's too busy flying on Air force One (or Two?) trying to get Olympics to come to Chicago (I suppose it comes with a hometown discount, right?) , with Oprah of all people. And Chicago, the most corrupt city in the world deserves the Olympics? Please. We've hosted them enough times, and I can think of plenty of better cities to host them than skull thuggery! Can't we spend tax payer dollars on our national security instead? Since when are the Olympics at the top of his agenda, when the rest of his duties are failing miserably. When he can't make a simple phone call, or make a ballsy decision by calling his men in action, he should not be commander in chief. Perhaps Air force One should be in Iran, and Oprah and Michelle could phone Copenhagen instead of the other way around? Oh, I forgot, he doesn't talk to his generals but once in 70 days. Brilliant!!!

David just a thought did you back Bush? Or do you just dislike any American president? National security I thought Bush handled that with the patriot Act. Do you really want Obama to spend more on national security? We are spending billions over in the middle east.Do you really want the government expanding the patriot act.? Taking away more American freedoms just to be Ballsy?

By the way Osama more than likely is in another country like Libya by now. Bush did not get him and started two wars trying to get rid Osama. funny how fast we got Saddam but oops Osama slipped through the cracks. Bush 2001 to 2008 no Osama Bin laden. Hum republican President spends Billions if not trillions on ONE man.

Not defending our commander and chief but the republican rhetoric is useless. Would you really have Palin in office or Mccain? We really need to rethink our foreign policies and get the F out or the middle east. Let them all kill each other. Thats what they are doing even with us there.

The war on terrorism is like the war on Drugs you cannot win it head on in Battle. Just like a drug dealer take him out and another comes to light. Take away the product and take away the prize. That's how you end terrorism as well. Stop Fear mongering.

The chances of dying from a terrorist attack are less than getting in your car and dying from an auto accident. Seriously.

Left wing Media tells you lemmings what to say and you regurgitate it here as if you know what the hell you are talking about. Bottom line is Saddam DID have WMD's no one can dispute that fact. Democrats in office at the time overwhelmingly agreed with the White House and voted to go into Iraq. They were able to see the same intelligence reports as the president and came up with the same conclusion. That's all there is to this dispute!

Is the Obama admin is being overly cautious? It is not only plausible but probable. Obama is driven by the political aspects of all situations and not what is in the best interest of the American people. If it is politically viable for him to order the air strikes on Iran nuclear facilities then he would do so, but I do not think it would be politically in his best interest even though it is the right thing to do. Aghanistan is a prime exaple of Obama's need to follow the path of political preservation over the needs and safety of the American people. He said while campaining that Aghganistan was the good war and we must win there. Now when his generals on the ground tell him the strategy for winning, Obama with no military background, a guy who couldn't tell you the difference between a platoon and a division thinks he knows better how to win the war. What Mr. Obama knows is how to stay a political figure that panders to far left special interest groups.

A nuclear armed Iran will destabilize the region and make the Israeli/Palestine conflict look like a school yard brawl. Iran will force it's religious ideology on it's neighbors and force them to concede to their demand which will first and foremost be the annihilation of the Israeli people.

This is a deadly serious topic and I hope that Mr. Obama finds the courage to take Iran and it's leaders to task on this issue and does whatever it takes to prevent a nuclear armed Iran for the safety of not only America but the world.

Sacrifice is not a word that many politicians would use unless they were asking it of others. This time we ask you Mr. Obama to do the right thing even if it means you are the one who has to sacrafice.

First, we have an imposter as a U.S. President. He is still working from this Chicago thug playbook. He is more concerned about getting the Olympic gig for his hometown of Chicago then he does with properly running this country. If National Security were an Olympic event, Barack Hussein Obama would be a SPECIAL OLYMPIAN.

With that said I offer this. I believe every individual has a right to defend themselves. I believe every country has a right to defend themselves. If Iran develops nuclear weapons, so be it. If they use them for unprovoked offensive attacks then the rest of the free world blows them off the face of the earth. This is what Israel should have done with Hamas.

Personally, I have never been more ashamed about being an American in my life. This country is moving to a dictatorhip and Congress no longer serves the will of the people. You have a handfull of people telling the other 300 million what to do. Our country is less safe than it has every been in the history of this country. The militia who helped turned the Revolutionary War could probably defend this country better than we could now. Why? Because they BELIEVED in America. They had PASSION for what this country stood for. They understood the sacrifice it took to be FREE MEN. Today, most Americans are a bunch of pu$$ies. We let thugs run our streets. We vote THUGS into the White House. We are weak on BORDERS, LANGUAGE AND CULTURE.

The enemy sees the weakness in Hussein Obama. In our life time there will be attacks on American soil. It will only take less than a year for Eric Holder to dismantle our intelligence agencies.... he will be focusing on taking down the white people. Then our enemies will attack. And quite honestly who cares. This country is de-evolving into a third world country. With all the illegal immigrants and muslems pouring into this country, it will no longer be our fathers America. It will the America of Arabs and Mexicans... at that point who cares if we ourselves are blown off the face of the earth.... not me... that's why I refuse to have bring children into this F'd up country.

The chances of dying from a terrorist attack are less than getting in your car and dying from an auto accident. Seriously.

That entire dynamic changes dramatically once the terrorists get nukes.

Seriously.

The whole reason for this article is to propose that there are virtually no comparisons to be made to Iraq, because now it's in Obama's hands.

The comparisons are obvious and that's driving the left bonkers!

Good try MSNBC! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Allen, you missed my point by a mile. Not that I did a very good job of making one. If you look at my post again, you'll see I refer to Obama as Odumbo, do you still think I voted for this empty suit. No I didn't. My point is if Obama thinks sanctions will solve the issue he better think again. I'm not saying sanction's are doomed to fail but IF Iran's goal is to go nuclear, and if that goal is weeks or months away, he may as well take the sanctions and wipe his ass with them for all the good they'll do. Israel cannot be allowed to strike, the result will be WWIII. That may even be the case if we strike but we must be 100% sure they are on track for production of nuclear weapons before we do so. There is a very fine line to walk that can lead to a peaceful settlement. Depending on what and when Obama deals with this could very well cause or avert WWIII, or at least for a while anyway. Good Luck Mr. Obama, you're really going to need it, seriously.

NO WMD in Iraq?????

Where did the 550 Tons of 'Yellow Cake' come from, that Iraq just sold to Canada?????

AC Robertson - Yellow Cake, is not a weapon. It is not even weapons grade material. It is partially refined uranium ore. While I wouldn't sprinkle it on my cereal or make a "cake" with it, it is not a weapon or usable as such, any more than partially refined lead can be directly used as bullets.

Non-existence of evidence is not evidence of non-existence.

sparcboy, the more common saying is "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". It is logically correct, but you could use it to justify virtually any unilateral attack using the reasoning that they might be planning to attack us.

In the real world one is seldom gifted with absolute certainty regarding anything. With regard to Iraq, the best available evidence in 2002 and 2003 argued that the country was not involved in the 9/11 attacks and did not have an active program for the development of forbidden weapons. So why did we go to war?

dman, Bush went to war with Iraq for one reason "israel" Perle, wolfowitz, Feith, wurmeser (all zionists) were the architecs convinced Brainless Bush to attack Iraq. Their plan was to originally attack Lebanon, then syria and finally Iraq, this way way Israel will do whatever they want to do to the Palestinians unabated

JoeyfromCcali- I voted for Clinton and Gore and was a democrat until this year. I was stupid, I admit, but after researching on my own, and following networks, the only one of which (FOX) isn't in the sack for Obama, I reached my conclusions that this is the most dangerous administration of all time. Carter is going to look like a genius after Obabma is done(and I mean that both figuratively and literally). With a ll the scandalous people he has surrounded himself with, czars of communist backgrounds, education czar (who encouraged a 15 year old to engage in homosexual activity with a pedophile), a bunch of tax cheats in the cabinet, and administration who has the gall and audacity to call the right racists, when they bashed Bush every day in office calling him stupid, a fool and a loser, I realize that the likes of Limbaugh (both of them), Beck, Hannity, Van Susteren, Jerry Doyle, Bill Cunningham, not to mention O'Reilly, Michelle Malkin, Monica Crowley, Laura Ingram, Deborah Norville and many others are absolutely correct. We have had ACORN scandals so bad in voter registration fraud, misappropriation of funds, instructing people how to set up a brothel and even how to evade taxes, and they are all affiliated with our Messiah, the great one, the community organizer Barack Hussein Obama. If you think that Nancy Pelosi (if you can get by the bowtox face of a mannequin ready to crack), Harry Reed, Barney Frank (who guaranteed us that Freddie and Fanny were viable and in no danger, just 3 years before they were bailed out) and a president who surrounded himself with the likes of former terrorist Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorn, Rev. Jeremiah Wright (not God bless America, God damn America) are people we can trust (without even getting into tax cheat Tim Geitner, head of the IRS!) then you, my friend have missed the boat and are drunk on Kool Aid. This administration sucks. The fish stinks from the head down, and man the stench is bad here. And our national defense is the weakest it's been in history, because all these clowns want to do is talk with no preconditions and try to rationalize with radical Islam terrorists. Any man who denies the holocaust doesn't deserve to be in the same room with the leader of the USA. But our leader would rather kiss rings, bow to kings and apologize for our misgivings (rhyme intended). No true American president would sell his soul or his country out for his own popularity. And that's what Obama has done. I am totally ashamed of having him for a president. And John McCain would have been no better, but the lesser of two very bad evils. Doesn't it phase you that we still haven't closed our borders and are letting people in my the thousands daily so they can ride on the backs of us tax payers? What ever happened to obeying the law? Unfortunately, our leaders are as guilty as the illegals becasue they cheated on taxes, made back room deals and cow towed to lobbyists, especially the environmental ones who believe the lies of Al Gore and global warming (climate change, or the next ice age- they can't seem to understand that they were wrong, but suckered liberals into believing it). Why hasn't anyone debated him on the issue? His own people doubt he's right. But that is just another example of liberal brainwashing. And remember, I'm 55 and this is the first time I've left the liberal party.

Any other questions?

And by the way Joeyfromcali, I wasn't impresssed with McCain, but I'd take Sarah Palin in a heartbeat. She may not have that precious liberal law degree that Hussein has, but she is a hell of a lot more trustworthy and representative of the common person. And doesn't come from money like most of these stiffs. I'd give my right arm (no pun intended on the "right") to have her run as VP with Michelle Bachman of Minnesota. I'd vote those two women in faster than sh.t through a goose. They ceratinly wouldn't do any worse than the men and other women (liberals like Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, Sabelius and our queen of homeland insecurity) who are gradually turning us into a third world country. At least Palin had executive experience. And no, it was Tina Fey who saw Russia from her house, not Palin!

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration.

September 30, 2009

Fabricating a Case Against Iran

Another War in the Works

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Does anyone remember all the lies that they were told by President Bush and the “mainstream media” about the grave threat to America from weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? These lies were repeated endlessly in the print and TV media despite the reports from the weapons inspectors, who had been sent to Iraq, that no such weapons existed.

The weapons inspectors did an honest job in Iraq and told the truth, but the mainstream media did not emphasize their findings. Instead, the media served as a Ministry of Propaganda, beating the war drums for the US government.

Now the whole process is repeating itself. This time the target is Iran.

As there is no real case against Iran, Obama took a script from Bush’s playbook and fabricated one.

First the facts: As a signatory to the non-proliferation treaty, Iran’s nuclear facilities are open to inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency, which carefully monitors Iran’s nuclear energy program to make certain that no material is diverted to nuclear weapons.

The IAEA has monitored Iran’s nuclear energy program and has announced repeatedly that it has found no diversion of nuclear material to a weapons program. All 16 US intelligence agencies have affirmed and reaffirmed that Iran abandoned interest in nuclear weapons years ago.

In keeping with the safeguard agreement that the IAEA be informed before an enrichment facility comes online, Iran informed the IAEA on September 21 that it had a new nuclear facility under construction. By informing the IAEA, Iran fulfilled its obligations under the safeguards agreement. The IAEA will inspect the facility and monitor the nuclear material produced to make sure it is not diverted to a weapons program.

Under the safeguards agreement that Iran has with the IAEA, a nuclear facility is not
secret unless Iran completes and operates the facility without informing the IAEA.

Despite these unequivocal facts, Obama announced on September 25 that Iran has been caught with a “secret nuclear facility” with which to produce a bomb that would threaten the world.

The Obama regime’s claim that Iran is not in compliance with the safeguards agreement is disinformation. Between the end of 2004 and early 2007, Iran voluntarily complied with an additional protocol (Code 3.1) that was never ratified and never became a legal part of the safeguards agreement. The additional protocol would have required Iran to notify the IAEA prior to beginning construction of a new facility, whereas the safeguards agreement in force requires notification prior to completion of a new facility. Iran ceased its voluntary compliance with the unratified additional protocol in March 2007, most likely because of the American and Israeli misrepresentations of Iran’s existing facilities and military threats against them.

By accusing Iran of having a secret “nuclear weapons program” and demanding that Iran “come clean” about the nonexistent program, adding that he does not rule out a military attack on Iran, Obama mimics the discredited Bush regime’s use of nonexistent Iraqi “weapons of mass destruction” to set up Iraq for invasion.

The US media, even the “liberal” National Public Radio, quickly fell in with the Obama lie machine. Steven Thomma of the McClatchy Newspapers declared the non-operational facility under construction, which Iran reported to the IAEA, to be “a secret nuclear facility.”

Thomma, reported incorrectly that the world didn’t learn of Iran’s “secret” facility, the one that Iran reported to the IAEA the previous Monday, until Obama announced it in a joint appearance in Pittsburgh the following Friday with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and French President Nicolas Sarkoszy.

Obviously, Thomma has no command over the facts, a routine inadequacy of “mainstream media” reporters. The new facility was revealed when Iran voluntarily reported the facility to the IAEA on September 21.

Ali Akbar Dareini, an Associated Press writer, reported, incorrectly, over AP: “The presence of a second uranium-enrichment site that could potentially produce material for a nuclear weapon has provided one of the strongest indications yet that Iran has something to hide.”

Dareini goes on to write that “the existence of the secret site was first revealed by Western intelligence officials and diplomats on Friday.” Dareini is mistaken. We learned of the facility when the IAEA announced that Iran had reported the facility the previous Monday in keeping with the safeguards agreement.

Dareini’s untruthful report of “a secret underground uranium enrichment facility whose existence has been hidden from international inspectors for years” helped to heighten the orchestrated alarm.

There you have it. The president of the United States and his European puppets are doing what they do best--lying through their teeth. The US “mainstream media” repeats the lies as if they were facts. The US “media” is again making itself an accomplice to wars based on fabrications. Apparently, the media’s main interest is to please the US government and hopefully obtain a taxpayer bailout of its failing print operations.

Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei, Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency, a rare man of principle who has not sold his integrity to the US and Israeli governments, refuted in his report (September 7, 2009) the baseless “accusations that information has been withheld from the Board of Governors about Iran’s nuclear programme. I am dismayed by the allegations of some Member states, which have been fed to the media, that information has been withheld from the Board. These allegations are politically motivated and totally baseless. Such attempts to influence the work of the Secretariat and undermine its independence and objectivity are in violation of Article VII.F. of the IAEA Statute and should cease forthwith.”

As there is no legal basis for action against Iran, the Obama regime is creating another hoax, like the non-existent “Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.” The hoax is that a facility, reported to the IAEA by Iran, is a secret facility for making nuclear weapons.

Just as the factual reports from the weapons inspectors in Iraq were ignored by the Bush Regime, the factual reports from the IAEA are ignored by the Obama Regime. Like the Bush Regime, the Middle East policy of the Obama Regime is based in lies and deception.

Who is the worst enemy of the American people, Iran or the government in Washington and the media whores who serve it?

She may not have that precious liberal law degree that Hussein has, but she is a hell of a lot more trustworthy and representative of the common person.

Yeah, and she just nonchalantly walked away from her commitment as Governor. And she may not have said she could see Russia from her house, she did allude to the relative closeness of Russia as having imbued her with some type of foreign policy experience... perhaps by diffusion.

dman, Bush went to war with Iraq for one reason "israel" Perle, wolfowitz, Feith, wurmeser (all zionists) were the architecs convinced Brainless Bush to attack Iraq.

marinegrunt66 - much as I feel we tilt our foreign policy decisions heavily in favor of Israel, I don't buy your theory, which I have heard before. The men you name may have had their own personal agenda, but so to did Dick Cheney and others in the Bush administration. I question too, the assertion that attacking Iraq was in some way in Israel's interest. Certainly is has not quelled Palestinian dissent and it has allowed Iran to magnify its influence throughout the middle east.

When nations go to war it is often for more than one reason. In Iraq, we had many probable reasons, some good, some bad for deciding to invade. But on the whole it was a stupid and reckless decision and one which was promoted with dishonesty and deceipt. I don't see how anybody can defend it. But, as you can see on this thread, people do.

A habit is like a reputation, easy to acquire, hard to get rid of. Looking at the recent and even far past of this country, the only thing that has changed as far as our finding our way into some sort of conflict is the date. I wonder why Isreal, who it is surely known, has nuclear weapons is consistanly allowed to get away with all of the violations it has received from the UN and other world bodies. Listening to and looking at all the news the past week, the name Isreal has not been mentioned once. Oh, I have to admit I did see a map of the world with the countries with nuclear weapons identified and was surprised to see that only Isreal, on the entire African [I will never accept the Middle East moniker attached after Isreal was injected onto the African continent by the UN] being identified as to having nuclear weapons.

Oh, I have to admit I did see a map of the world with the countries with nuclear weapons identified and was surprised to see that only Isreal, on the entire African [I will never accept the Middle East moniker attached after Isreal was injected onto the African continent by the UN] being identified as to having nuclear weapons.

Say what? Whether you love or hate Israel, it is no more on the African continent than is New Jersey.

As far as Israel escaping sanctions for possessing nuclear weapons, you might remember that Pakistan and India, two other recently emerged nuclear powers, also escaped sanctions.

Please don't let us be stupid enough to invade another country for no reason.

Only AFTER Obama will have proof and evidence, i.e. after an attack on London or Paris or New York, will he come out and discuss those matters and think of a plan.

Just like gay equality or health care. Give Obama a dozen of years and he will act.

Ethan30

Get off of the divisive left/ right paradigm. You are a noeocon who believes whatever Israel wants is best for the US. The difference between you and a hardened communist is paper thin. People are becoming aware that you and your ilk are the true terrorists.

TXAGGIE it's Fearorist not Terrorist.

Please don't let us be stupid enough to invade another country for no reason.

Invading isn't the problem, its the staying and rebuilding part. U.S. waged war no longer has a punitive aspect. I'm surprised every ****-hole in the world isn't lining up trying to figure out how to **** us off just a little so we come in and rebuild their infrastructure.

It was already a book/movie. "The Mouse that Roared". Sorry. You still don't have an original thought.

Starbuck49:

I'm not be so sure about that. The American People (well a majority anyway) allowed themselves to be completely fooled less than a year ago. The guy in the White House is a Fraud, and the masses still can't see that. It really isn't very hard to fool fools especially when they put "me" ahead of We the People.

So, the consensus is that we should 'stay out of it'. We should withdraw from Afghanistan, because we're there for no reason. Someone posts something about being divisive, then launches a litany of ad-hominem attacks. There is the suggestion that the Israelis are in charge of US policy.

I guess we're in Afghanistan because someone felt like "invading somewhere" and they tossed a dart at a world map.

I do enjoy watching folk rationalize their feelings!

TXAGGIE, how could a tiny country like Israel actually control a foreign government as formidable as ours? What's stopping the US from cutting all ties and military aid to Israel? The OPEC and Big Oil lobbies have more weight to throw around than AIPAC. Israel developed its own nuclear arsenal and we pay them $3.5 billion a year to buy our fighter planes and radar systems. The Islamic extremist lobby, however, hijacks a few airliners and flies them into buildings and our government spends hundreds of billions to beef up national security, not to mention three times the $3.5 billion we send to Israel just being in Iraq. And that's per month! So where is the real waste? Are we so lame that we'd cut ties with one of our most loyal allies out of fear of another terrorist attack? Sounds to me like those wacko terrorists have us where they want us already.

We're more afraid of terrorists who are supported by OPEC countries with huge unprotected oil reserves than we are of a tiny country that leads the world in research and development on alternative energy. Who would you rather be friends with, a bunch of countries that want you dead or a small country whose friendship would benefit us in ways a terrorist could never imagine? Maybe that's yet another reason the Arab world wants Israel destroyed, because it would put OPEC out of business.

Why do "we", the U.S., have to do anything? What good is the UN? If our "allies" think something should be done, the only help we should give is pointing them in the right direction.

Allies who can do something? Do you mean this list of allies?

France: Too scared
Germany: Pretty much done with war.
Spain, Canada, Australia, Poland: Too small
England: Only if the US leads the way, or 3 other European allies (which won't happen, see above)

And then even for those who aren't our allies:

Russia: won't
China: won't
Pakistan: won't
India: won't

Well, where does that leave us?
Israel: will be at the front of the line, doing something about it, and that's why people hate them.

I'm counting on Israel

apparently all the kurdish people who were eliminated with biological weapons by saddam were

victims of weaponry that causes massive loss of life.....with no destruction to the surrounding infrastructures which i suppose cannot be truly attributed to a weapon of "MASS" destruction in the sense that there is widespread destruction......

We did in Nov08..

Even the French are starting to get serious about the idea of a nuclear-armed Iran and their terrorist proxies. Sarkozy believes Obama is "grossly egotistical" and "naive".

Germany's Merkel believes the same.

Obama's in way over his head.

Milwaukee

My post never mentioned anything about Israeli influence on the American government. But since you brought it up. Here it is from the horses mouth.

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001

The denial of the holocaust by this person is just to add emotion to any dialog. I am NOT anti Semitic, however, I think if he wants to look like an ass in front of the whole world by saying it never happened, then so be it. We need to stay focused on the real threat, nuclear weapons. At this point too, I think he's full of hot air. Also Israel would be the one to pull the trigger if they thought they were going to be bombed. We should stay of it. Iran has nothing we need or want. He's not going to launch any kind of attack as he knows Iran would be turned into melted glass if he did.

Did you listen to the interview of Ahmadineajad on the news, he wasn't denying the holocaust did not happen, that the photos were faked, he is saying there were 60 million people killed in WWII. Why does the world single out 1 race as the example of the holocaust and not the other 54 million that died. His idea in his mind of the holocaust is the 60 million that died.

Iran probably does want a bomb precisely because genocidal Israel has nuclear weapons. I think all the talk about how dangerous Iran is with the bomb is just plain BS. Iran typically doesn't go around attacking the US or Europe. Iranian foreign policy seems to be concentrated on the middle east. Similarly Hezbollah or Hamas have never attacked anything in the US or Europe so I fail to see the threat to America from these two Iranian "proxies".

Furthermore, we have been threatening to bomb their facilities for years and so has Israel so why wouldn't the Iranians start spreading their nuclear assets around? Why would they not have SAMS and fortified bunkers? What country wouldn't try to hide facilities that other countries are threatening to destroy?

Like I said I believe they want a bomb because it just makes sense for them to want a bomb to counter Israel but there really hasn't been any proof of anything presented by the IAEA, America or Europe that they are actively developing nuclear weapons and even if there is so what. Iran is no military threat to America and never will be.

It seems we are trying to deny them the know how to build a bomb (for Israels sake) which unfortunately is a by product of controlling the nuclear fuel cycle. The Non Proliferation Treaty gives Iran the right to control the fuel cycle. Just like Germany, Japan and many other countries control the fuel cycle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4yoLd_sze4

video of interview

Why do we need "EVIDENCE"? IS there a court of law that will stop Iran from fighting their Jihad war?

Won't it be too late once they actually developed the nukes and thus, we can show the evidence?

and who is going to stop those crazy fanatics from bombing New York? Obama? that Salon blogger?

Ethan30

I guess by typing in bold, you will be more convincing? By your analysis we should be attacking Pakistan. They are full of radical Muslims, yet their nuclear capability is never questioned. Are you posting from Tel Aviv, an SPLC or and ADL office?

We are knowing your method. The tables are shifting.

By your analysis we should be attacking Pakistan

That would be a problem; half the Pakistani population lives in Britain now.

Starbuck needs to listen more carefully to Mr. Ahmadinejad:

"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets."

"The real Holocaust is what is happening in Palestine where the Zionists avail themselves of the fairy tale of Holocaust as blackmail and justification for killing children and women and making innocent people homeless."

--Do try a bit harder to learn the facts before you make your claims. You discredit yourself by posting inaccuracies.

The video speaks for itself. He did not say the picture was faked. His perception of the holocaust is 60 million people killed in the war, not just 6 million Jews.

The Devil-1138528 wrote: "Iran probably does want a bomb precisely because genocidal Israel has nuclear weapons."

Israel is genocidal? Compared to what? There has been a lot of genocide throughout human history, but none committed by Israel. In fact, Israel didn't even exist for the 1,350 years prior to 1948. Or is it Jews you're really targeting? You are the Devil, aren't you?

Israel had had nukes for many, many years. If they were "genocidal" they would have used them long since. They have bee provoked and had rockets thrown over their borders over and over again and have still had restraint in the use of such weapons. If they chose to "wipe Iran off the map" they would already have done so. Unlike Muslims, I believe the Jewish people have shown concern for human life by not using the nukes in their arsenal.

I'm not Jewish by the way!

Just one thing.....The Jewish people are not, nor have they ever been, a RACE OF PEOPLE. Because they do share much more than the religion of Judiasm, they are actually an ethnic group, which is a designation based on shared cultural background. In any event, they are certainly NOT a race, which is a cultural construct based on supposed shared BIOLOGY. People of various races identify as Jewish.

Freedom Dave,

For your information, Ahmadinejad is not building nukes, the Mullahs are......they are the ones in charge over there. Moreover, we found out about their nukes seven years ago and Bush did nothing except blow some hot air. Your finger-pointing at Obama is nonesense, this crisis has been ongoing for seven years.

TXAGGIE, you got all of that info about Ethan just by reading that statement? Wow, you must be smart........................or just really, really good at making assumptions.

Starbuck:

One video of one soundbite does not remove the man's documented statements (which were printed above, and which you studiously ignore).

Nor do they delete the actions the Iranian government is taking.

Which words of the phrase "They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred" are giving you difficulty?

The Iranian leadership is deadly serious and candid about their intentions.

russellmuscle1

What information are you talking about. I only asked questions, which have yet to be answered. Can you answer them? Are you sitting next to him, teamed together for the propaganda campaign?

If he had more after he used them on his own people, why didn't he use them on us in the first gulf war? The weapons inspectors said he didn't have any left, but that didn't set well with bush's argument for invasion of Iraq, so they ignored the report and got us into a cesspool.

Dear Starbuck 49.. All he had was poison gas, and he only used it on the Kurds for the most part in the northern part of Iraq. There are so many terrible things going on in the world today, everything from African genocide, to global warming. That man was NOT a threat to the US when we invaded Iraq. We defeated his attempt to "annex" Kuwait and he was a stable leader. (Although he was killing people who did not agree with him). But you know what? So does China, North Korea, and a host of other countries, some in our hemisphere. At some point we have to say, it's sad, but let another country go fight. (They never do, do they?) We also are spending trillions of dollars on these wars we won't get back.

Thanks starbuck. It is time for all of us to give up on the fairy tale Bush wrote for our nation. Now it is time for someone with a slightly higher IQ and GPA to do the best he can to clean up the mess Bush Jr. left behind.

My son went to Iraq and he and his fellow soldiers knew they'd been lied into that war. He deploys for Afghanistan this November, and though I'm scared for his safety, he says they are all prepared to go get the REAL terrorists. Remember 9/11? Those were not Iranians who flew those planes into our buildings. Those were Muslims, many of whom were connected to the Saudis. The Saudi leaders were such close family friends that Bush held hands with the leader of their country as they walked up the stairs to enter a building.

Now can you tell me who benefited most from the war in Iraq? Our national safety, or the Bush/Cheney contacts in the middle east.

I agree he was no threat. We entered the wrong war, he had nothing to do with 911. All the shrub did was destabilize the area and now we listen to Iran rattle their swords. Iran reminds me of NK with the sword rattling, all show.

But how scary is it that people still believe the Bush Administration's story??

I don't even think the their Administration still try to push that story any more, do they?

Ha ha Matt-343495 do you really believe that? After all the regimes officials have come clean you still believe that in the 21st century there were WMD in Iraq? And you can vote? :(

-----------------------------------------------------

Democracy, n.: A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic... negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Result is demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, [chaos]

US Army Training Manual 1928-1932

starbuck49: We thought he still had WMD's because he denied the UN into some locations. All indications showed he still had some or was making some. We later found out he lied.

Read the weapons inspectors report.

Key findings in the report:

• "The ISG has not found evidence that Saddam possessed WMD stocks in 2003, but [there is] the possibility that some weapons existed in Iraq, although not of a militarily significant capability."
• "There is an extensive, yet fragmentary and circumstantial body of evidence suggesting that Saddam pursued a strategy to maintain a capability to return to WMD after sanctions were lifted... "
• "The problem of discerning WMD in Iraq is highlighted by the pre-war misapprehensions of weapons which were not there. Distant technical analysts mistakenly identified evidence and drew incorrect conclusions."

The Devil-1138528: Ha ha Matt-343495 do you really believe that? After all the regimes officials have come clean you still believe that in the 21st century there were WMD in Iraq? And you can vote? :(

What does the 21st century have to do with anything.

They came clean about not having WMD's because they didn't want to look weak to people that may have wanted to attack them.

They did have them. You may be too young to know but i'm not, and I remember.

I'm not saying it was right or wrong to go into Iraq. No country has attack its own people with WMD's except saddam.

delherren: The Saudi leaders were such close family friends that Bush held hands with the leader of their country as they walked up the stairs to enter a building.

The holding hands is custom in muslim countries as a sign of friendship and respect.

Matt

We deliberately infected our citizens with the syphilis virus, do more than a million of our citizens need to be killed for that?

The funny thing is that I'm considered a, "right wing terrorist," by our Homeland Security(very similar to what Adolf Hitler set up). If you're not an Israeli firster, then you are a brainwashed, "CONSERVATIVE."

We need you on the rational side. Lower your blinders. It's not hard.

WMDs? If you mean mustard gas, every combatant nation of WWI had that. Not very effective, which is why no nation bothered to use it in WWII.

Now real weapons of mass destruction, fuel air explosives, cluster bombs, thousands of tanks and mobile artillery (the gods of the battlefield), over 10,000 nuclear weapons, the world's largest stockpile of germ weaponry, and, of course, poison gas, well the United States is the owner of all that.

Israel has most of that WMD stuff too, mostly courtesy of the United States, and has been very willing to use it on civilian populations in Lebanon and occupied Palestine. Now other than defending itself against Iraq, how many countries has Iran invaded. How many has the United States invaded? (Yes, little Caribbean islands and Panama count too.) Who has the greatest capability to be a real threat to world peace? Who has proven themselves willing to use nuclear weapons against cities? It hasn't been Iran, or Pakistan, or even North Korea.

This whole sham of feigning horror at the mention of WMDs is abhorrent when in fact the nation with the largest number of WMDs, the nation who has proven its willingness to use WMDs, is the one doing all the self-righteous posturing. Now understand well that I don't necessarily object to the notion of blowing one's enemies to hell by any means necessary. I just find being sanctimonious about it distasteful.

Wow, you are a very enlightened group.

Please consider:

Israel is adamant that the whole kit and caboodle was trucked off to Syria just before Iraqi Freedom.

Then, as if by magic, Syria is caught red-handed building a secret nuclear facility!

The Israelis, for the second time in a generation, save humanity by blowing up that facility.

But, don't let me interrupt your mutual admiration society!!

Matt

Where do you get that they had weapons of mass destruction when we attacked? They didn't, the experts said they had no evidence, and only Bush/Cheney wanted them to be there, so they said they were.

I'm not too young to know and I remember they did NOT have them, although I remember Fox News proclaiming on at least three occasions that they found WMDs, they were so anxious to find them.

And for using weapons of mass destruction agains your "own people". I think diseased blankets to the native American population might count, as well as the German Sonderkommando in Europe and Russian starvation weapon in the thirties.

Matt. The report says "no EVIDENCE" of WMDs, not that there were none. Good friend was a Marine on the ground during the invasion. They found a lot of "cleaned" facilities and storage bunkers where it was obvious that equipment and materials had very recently been dismantled and removed. They were also told to watch for and not bother any Russian Military Advisors they encountered – who were packing up and leaving. A big Russian Army logistics company with a lot of truck drivers and support personnel, who had been shepherding big truck convoys into Syria 24/7 for weeks before the invasion (Saddam's baseball card collection no doubt). The Marines on the ground were pretty much convinced that the stuff had been there – and was moved out just ahead of the invasion. Several Iraq high rankers told them that they thought when the U.S. didn’t find anything, they would immediately pull out, like the first time – and they could go back to business as usual.

Oh yeah, Mack. Russian military advisers, Russian logistics company with lots of personnel and truck drivers, big truck convoys to Syria, yada yada yada.....

Did your marine friend tell you of any sightings of UFO ferrying the WMDs up into space, too?

Iraq is a gigantic weapons dump from thier pre Gulf War WMD programs. This is common knowledge guys, not really anything to debate. The weapon remnants we found were believed to have been pre Gulf war; instead of from a current program as the Bush admin. had believed.

Many here are piling on the Bush administration "lying" about Iraqi WMD.

Are these folk also liars?

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

Now, I don't expect any of you people to actually acknowledge the fact that many people made the same conclusions as your hated GWB.

But, they are documented, recorded statements for all time.

So, what do you say? Care to debate further???

Once again our intelligence is arguing with the rest of the world.

The Europeans seem to claim that again we are wrong and got a weak intelligence.

I'm not even sure what that guy from Columbia wants to say. HE is saying that they will build everything but then stop. Why would they stop?

They have got everything to build a bomb. Why all of the sudden would they change course?

Ethan

You must be an Israeli operative, you post to any objection to war.

Is posting in bold working for you?

Hook 'em horns!!

Now, back to your Socialist professors. You're late for your indoctrina----err, I mean 'education'.

point made, Steven.  

Gary Sick, an expert on Iran at Columbia University

How does a liberal professor at Columbia university become an "expert on Iran"?

Darrell

Perhaps from learning and education and studying a problem in depth and detail.

I know, who needs facts when you have ideology?

Where does he get his "facts", ferrosynthiesis, from Iranian students he has taught? Or has he read some books about the persian empire to make him an expert?

Maybe Obama should make him the Iranian Czar.

darrell, Obama has 30 czars, but Bush had 47. Did you and the GOP notice then, or you are just being hyppocritical now?

Steven B

I guess, "Hook em Horns," was for me. You must be from Israel since you are totally ignorant of the political differences between the University of Texas and Texas A&M University. Nice try, well maybe not.

from Oakley: darrell, Obama has 30 czars, but Bush had 47. Did you and the GOP notice then, or you are just being hyppocritical now?

Now that I KNOW you got from olbermann, or madcow on msnbc, Oakley, because I heard it also. It's not true of course. MSNBC hacks came up with their own unique definition of czar, and also counted ones who replaced others who served for only a yr or so. Also they counted positions that were new at the time but are now permanent govt positions such as head of Homeland Security (Napolitano). That position was initially considered czar with Bush, but is now in Obama's cabinet and not counted as czar (that would then make 33 for obama). Best explanation given below from http://answers.yahoo.com

love all the misinformation....

Almost all presidents have had czars. Bush, Clinton, Regan. Its a common practice. However, in the past, these czars have remained a relatively small number and have been vetted and approved by conrgess. G.W. Bush had 19 czars or 4, depending on your take. Many positions, such as head of Homeland Security, were only dubbed Czars by the media, even though the Department of Homeland Security was made a permanent administrative position by Congress almost immdeiately and therefore not a Czar position at all. Any position in a permanent department is not a czar position. Furthermore, all of these Czars were vetted and approved through congress, unlike Obama's. Many have seen the number 47 floating around as the correct number for Bush's czars. But this is sheer misinformation and propoganda tactic. As stated, many positons listed by media as czar positions were actually not, they are permanent administrative positions and also, sometimes more than one person would fill the same czar position. Therefore the correct number is 19 in an 8 year period, and not all at the same time. Out of the 19 czars, only four were not eventually made a permanent position. Never in history have we had 40+ czars, none vetted by congress, all at the same time...and thats where the problem lies. Here is a list of the czar positions in Bush's term.

•Cyber Security Czar
•Regulatory Czar
•AIDS Czar
•Bird Flu Czar
•Intelligence Czar
•Health IT Czar
•Katrina Czar
•Manufacturing Czar
•Drug Czar
•Domestic Policy Czar
•War Czar
•Copywright Czar
•Abstinence Czar
•Mine Safety Czar
•Latin American Czar
•WTO Health Czar
•Corruption Czar
•Privacy Czar
•Health Czar

Source(s):

http://washingtonpost.com/

http://www.freerepublic.com/

I agree that Israel can defend itself. But what if the Iranians are after New York city and Paris?

Who would stop them from sending the bomb via a boat and claiming it wasn't them, but rather a terrorist attack.

Why allow them the ability to fight their Islamic war over the West with Atomic weapons?

Ethan

Your ARGUMENT still doesn't make sense.

I agree that Israel can defend itself. But what if the Iranians are after New York city and Paris?

Playing Devils Advocate... what if they're just trying to build a deterrent so we'll stop threatening them.

Ever think of that?

Please.... If Iran built a bomb, stuck it on a ship, and tried to get it close to here... that's why we need a stronger "home security" system. Satellites should be able to let us know they're coming. Why should we let them fight their war? Because it's not our Islamic war. It's their religious battle thats been going on since the beginng of time. Nobody's asked for our help? have they? I think that's the reason they hate us. We stick our noses where they don't belong.

Ethan: you are 100% on track. The Iranians are not fools. They will simply provide their many proxies with actual nuclear devices, or better still, simple dirty bombs that will cause catastrophic radiation poisoning.

Then the Iranians will shrug their shoulders and say "It wasn't us!". The liberals will recoil in fear at the thought of retaliating against Iran because "we have no proof".

Those who don't think that this is "our war" are of the same ilk as the isolationists in our country before Pearl Harbor. They somehow fail to understand that when fanatics say 'we are going to kill you if you resist our goal to establish a world-wide caliphate" that they're being pranksters.

I believe they are deadly serious.

I agree.

I remember the day that I woke up and every news channel had switched from Osama Ben Laden to Sadam Hussain...and I had just watched the new 5 hours before...

I have always wondered how they got every single new media to change stories in the middle of the night..

If our military were not being forced to fight with both hands behind their back by the frightened administration, we'd already have finished off the Taliban and their sympathizers.

If we're going to fight, let's do it and finish it.

If we're not going to fully commit, then remove the troops so they can be with their families for those last few minutes before we are nuked.

Running from a fight only emboldens our adversaries. Didn't you have any bullies in your life experience?

This isn't Vietnam; if we leave they're going to come after us.

Oh, and what will you say when we are attacked again? In case you've not been paying attention, we've been fortunate to thwart many terrorist attacks in only the past few weeks.

We have to be lucky all the time; they only have to be lucky once.

Most of us don't have ESP or private intelligence sources. ;) I supported our side going in ( and still support our side ) but just disappointed that we screwed it up so badly.

for post #14. We need to drill, baby, drill, bepatient. I know good number of people involved in oil and natural gas here in TX. Drilling has been GREATLY curtailed because companies have no idea what kind of new taxes, health care requirements, and just overall new regulations are going to come out of washington.

MOst efficient ways to produce energy are oil, natural gas, coal and nuclear. NONE of which Obama seems to like. His solar, wind and hydro green energy plans are still the three least efficient ways of producing energy. The latter three should be worked on as partial options and emergency power sources, but the former four energy options HAVE to be expanded on.

I know you will say the olympics won't cost Chicago tax payers any money, but that's only because you plan to designate stimulus money to do Olympic work in Chicago, So it will actually cost ALL taxpayers. Forget about the olympics and make some decisions on Afghanistan, Pakistan, health care, and while you're at it why don't you just ask congress to vote OUT the remaining stimulus money and stick it back in the US coffers.

My last paragraph in post 14.1 was statement to President Obama for any who didn't understand.

Isn't it curious that our President wants to protect the environment by preventing drilling in the US, but he has no difficulty giving $10,000,000,000.00 to Brazil so that THEY can drill for oil off of their coast?

Nothing like consistency!!

They don't need a missile. They can ship in to NEw York city. Once the boats arrives at an American port it's too late.

But then that blogger would have his "EVIDENCE" only millions will have to pay with their lives and the US economy would be ruined.

Ethan

The bold typeface still isn't convincing.

Ethan, you are a crazy and dangerous.

The Iranians have an agenda. They've made no attempts to hide their agenda.

That you refuse to acknowledge their goals makes no difference to them.

They do not need a bomb; all they need is some radioactive material and a means to spread radioactivity where they wish.

I hope you all are right and I am wrong.

But, what if I am right and you are wrong? What then?

Actually, the Libyan leader rambled for quite some time last week at the UN. I have never heard the Libyan leader state that he wished to see the return of the Hidden Imam.

I have never heard the Libyans pursuing nukes.

Maybe that's because he's a Sunni.

In any event, the Libyan leader certainly didn't sit back after Reagan sent planes to get Muammar's attention.

As I recall, there was something about a Pan Am flight that suddenly stopped flying.

Steven is right the man did ramble on for a bit, and I thought the translator was screwing it up...nope just rambling.

In fact Libya has pursued weapons of mass destruction in the past, in addition to making a general nuisance of themselves. But bless military dictatorships they do follow the money and the United States is the money. So they gave up their weapons and stopped funding terrorism, in exchange they get some more aid and occasionally we take a dissident or two into "exile".

No, this is about European and American cities. Wake up, people.

If even France is worried about Paris, why is Obama so clueless?

We are talking about the Mullahs of Iran that claim the want to bring an Islamic revolution globally.

Ethan

Still not convinced. What I do know is that Israel firsters will sacrifice their host country for Israel. The bold type still doesn't work.

Actually, Greg you are close. It is about the bible. It's about the two brothers, one who was blessed to rule the land and one who was supposed to be the Blessed One.

So, is TXaggie stating for the record that the elimination of Israel is OK?

That's what we call a "closed ended question".

Now, an "open-ended question"

Is there anyone else you don't mind seeing attacked?

Steven B

You want to put words in my mouth? I never said that the elimination of Israel was OK. Did you learn that propaganda trick from the Talmud?

There is one country in particular I wish not be attacked. THE united states of AMERICA.

I know having my country attacked furthers your agenda but in the end it will be the demise of you and your ilk.

You are blind my friend... it is all smoke and mirrors...once a bad apple always a bad apple.. They celebrated the return of that bomber on that flight from 30 years ago... who does that! Terrorist do that... You are a fool

Starbuck,you are right about smoke and mirrors. You only have to take a careful look at todays turmoil in the United States to find smoke and mirrors. Both sides in every issue in the United States today have developed and use extensive smoke and mirrors to divert the public attention away from the real issues and solutions that made to be, and should be openly and honestly discussed and debated.

Don't be confused - Israel on this issue does not have any freedom of maneuver. Israel will never attack Iran if we and our puppet government in Iraq will forbid Israeli war planes to fly over Iraq. Israel will never attack Iran if it would not be sure that our aircraft carriers will repel the Iranian retaliation. It will not be the "allow" it will be our full scale involvement with the decisive role.

All this means that if Israel attacks Iran then we, not Israel, will yet again become enemy N1 and all those repulsive things, you mention, will come to our face not to Israel.

This is not Israel's job, but American job to do.

Obama is still trying to study and can't decide what to do (just like Health Care and Gays rights).

European leaders get it. IRan wants to bring Islamic law to the West. They want this threat eliminated.

Obaa is looking like a child who is trying to figure out whats going on, while he is losing his status and cred. in the international arena.

America should take the lead and make sure Iran's Mullah's don't get their hands on nukes.

Ethan

What job are you talking about? Why is any mission of protecting Israel, Americas job. Haven't we done enough? We sacrificed the men of the USS Liberty for Israels 1967 war of aggression. We sacrificed marines in Lebanon. We sacrificed every casualty of both Iraq wars. When can gentile Americans stop sacrificing for the illegitimate state of Israel?

Bold still isn't working.

Wrong, TXAGGIE! First, the Liberty incident was entirely LBJ's idea. He was looking for a way to keep the US at war to avoid a recession. Vietnam wasn't working out, so he decided that a war in the Middle East would be easier to fight and win, since the Arabs were such lousy fighters with lousy Soviet weaponry. So he sneaks the Liberty into the East Mediterranean and parks it 14 miles off the Sinai and waits for Egypt to attack it. Unfortunately, Israel wiped out the Egyptian Air Force and achieved air superiority on their western front, so Israeli pilots were the first to spot this mysterious warship that wasn't supposed to be there. The Pentagon (bless their hearts) had already told Israel's defense command that they had no US warships in the East Mediterranean. Capt. McGonagle also made the dumb mistake of ordering the US flag taken down off the Liberty's mast and the ship's holiday colors put up instead...while the Israeli fighter pilots were making their ID runs. Jim Ennes, one of the Liberty's crew and Israel's most outspoken critic over the whole thing, claimed that he grabbed a spare radio during the attack, turned it on and overheard an Israeli ground controller order one of the pilots to continue the attack anyway. Gosh, where did Ennes learn Hebrew all of a sudden? Ennes also claimed he had a secret meeting with one of the Israeli pilots, who Ennes claims admitted that he was ordered to continue attacking the Liberty even after they discovered it was a US ship. Unfortunately, Ennes didn't bother to bring a recording device to the meeting to catch those incriminating words, so the rest of us have to decide if we're gonna take him at his word.

Hey, veterans lie too, you know. Just like they lied about the My Lai Massacre. Wearing a uniform and a few medals doesn't make you incapable of lying. Montgomery was a well-decorated British WWII commander, but he was also a pedophile. Don't believe me? Look it up.

As for the Marines killed in Lebanon, that was our mistake too. And it wasn't just Marines. They were part of a multi-lateral peacekeeping force that was attacked by suicide bombers, a method of aggression that had yet to become a staple in Islamic extremists' arsenal. You live, you learn.

And then there's the war in Iraq. The Gulf War of 1991-92 was fought over oil, not Israel. Iraq invaded Kuwait, Bush Sr. sent half a million troops over and bombed Iraq. During that war, Iraq fired 39 SCUD missiles at Israel. Israel was not allowed to fire missiles back, only to shoot down incoming SCUDs. Israel obliged, so as to avoid causing our Arab allies in that war to switch sides. Does that sound like a country that can twist our government's arm to do their bidding?

Look, if you want to see and end to our alliance with Israel, fine. Won't bother anyone a bit. I would however, recommend that we first end our dependency on foreign oil, something we should've done a long time ago. That way, if all heck does break loose over there, you won't have to pay $20-30 a gallon at the pump over here. Of course, Israel is way ahead of the US in R & D on alternative energy. You can kiss that goodbye too. Microsoft and Intel will have to find another country to R & D their processor chips and operating systems...and Internet security and antivirus software and medical research and...never mind, the list is too long.

I don't want to bore you to death, so I'll cut it right here. In the meantime, think about what's really going on and why. I think you'll find that much of what you're reading about in the news and all the major conflicts in the Middle East were not caused by Israel, but by a bunch of oil-rich countries who just can't stand the fact that 1) Israel exists and 2) the rest of the world is not quite as deaf and blind as they'd like to believe.

hey aggie,

What do you know of the Liberty? Were you there? The Israelis believed that the ship was Egyptian.

What do you know about the USMC in Lebanon? Was it the Israelis that bombed the barracks? Do you know that the Marines weren't allowed to have live amunition, and if they had the ammunition they could have stopped that truck?

Your statement that 'we sacrificed every casualty in both Iraqi wars' might offend the many peoples of the other countries that gave blood and treasure in those campaigns, including the Israelis, who (I am guessing you may not have been born then) endured SCUD attacks from a desperate Saddam Hussein, and did not respond as they would've liked.

Is there anything you believe is worth fighting for?

If I were you I would ask A&M for a refund; either that or you've been deliberately ignoring history (as well as math!).

Oh my goodness I'm being double teamed

Milwaukee

Telling me I'm, "WRONG," certainly straightened me out! I guess I'll pick up my marbles and go home and rethink every position I've ever had on every issue. Your propaganistic diatribe requires no reply except to say, "NO, YOU'RE WRONG." There I said it. You need to study some more. I bet you were one of the ones protesting the USS Liberty Library in Wisconsin.

Hey Steven B

I know enough to know that all the propaganda that spews from your fingers has been repeated many, many times by Israel and their minions. And yes I was alive for both war crimes. The countries who gave, "blood and treasure, " may be insulted, at first. Then when the truth sinks in, they will become angry and resolve to,"never again," have their sons used as cannon fodder and their treasury used as an ATM.

There are several things I will fight and die for; family, god, country(defense). You probably believe America is fighting to spread, "democracy." We were founded as a republic and that is what I will fight for. I would sooner commit a mortal sin than fight for the state of Israel. I have read the history. It's about time you do the same.

You mentioned adhominems in a previous post. Your effort to disparage myself and Texas A&M University speaks more to your inability to argue facts than to whatever deficit was provided in my education. By the way I have an engineering degree, bet my math's better than yours.

Former President Bush let all of the Bin Laden family fly out of the U.S. back in 2001 when all planes were grounded and then watched the Pentagon burn with Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia from the balcony of the White House (13 of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia) to discuss (oil) realations with Saudi Arabia. So who is in bed with (I am not going to use Muslims because all are not terrorists) people from the Middle East?

So true!!! bush knew.

OMG Bush knew. OMG Clinton knew. OMG Reagan knew. Iran been a source of c*** and several other countrys for a LONG time. Only now they have more toys to play with.

upata: So is he a Muslim or a radical that went to Wrights church? Make up your mind. He can't be both.

Jim V,

President Bush, acting all alone, must have let all the terrorist go when he was busy signing all those tax rebate checks you got. That takes a lot of time you know and a lot of ink you narrow minded.....

what a completely asinine post

Surely you guys understand that one can have a diplomatic relationship with a Muslim without being "in bed" with them..............or being one himself for that matter.

Oh yeah, our beliefs just conveniently change depending on who were are talking about, right?

Wow, and here I was listening to the folk at MSNBC braying about our 'cowardly' president hiding aboard Air Force One while the attacks were taking place. I didn't realize he was actually in D.C. at the same time.

Justice,

Greed trumps common sense. Your right. Damn, I was just commenting on unpats post but I guess I am being narrow minded. Tax refund checks, that did allot to stimulate the economy and has everything to do with unpats post. I must be a Muslim, Nazi, Socialist, Commie, Jermiah Wright lovin', tree hugging hippie!