The Marine was not a "public figure" therefore the wishes of the family take precedence. The fact that some sicko so-called journalist is trying to make a buck on their tragedy is disgraceful.
Why was this journalist taking a picture of this wounded Marine? Had it been me, I'd have dropped that camera fast and helped that Marine any way I could. Journalists have lost basic human compassion in my humble opinion and the taking of this photo proves that.
If as a society we can't be shown the results of war, maybe we should consider going to war in the first place. Where is respect in hiding?
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Where is the respect for a Mother of a fallen soldier? You and I both know the AP is only interested in sensation and the concerns for the family will never be in their interest. To disrespect a families wishes is below contempt but as usual nothing will be done except the AP made money. Glad to hear some newspapers still have ethics and didn't run the picture.
Didn't the obama adminastration open up the arrival of dead soldiers to the press so the american public to see? Now it is a bad idea?
But he only opened it up to the press IF the family said ok! This family specifically said NO!
Maybe it's time to boycott AP and all its' affilates, since the almighty dollar is all it is about with them. What a sick bunch of cowards!!!!!!!
Lets go to their advertisers, express our disgust, and boycott the ones that don't honor our troops and their families. Money is the only thing they understand.
gmainco, are you saying we shouldn't have gone to war in Afghanistan? I don't remember the publishing of photos of bodies of people who threw themselves out of the World Trade Center while it was burning, or any other 911 victims for that matter.
What exactly would you have done to the Taliban after 9/11?
How about a petition to AP and it's management showing our disgust and monetary power. Maybe threaten to stop buying their publications. And if that doesn't work, go to their advertisers with our petition or disgust at this outrage.
Maybe a website on line to gather signatures, etc.
I'll participate, donate, drive the petition down the media's throats. Any ideas, folks?
Count me in.
Money is the only thing these scumbags understand.
Not sure what you are referring too? I only stated that we shouldn't have printed a picture that a family did not want printed. Where does that make me protesting going to war against the taliban. I have a Grandson in the Marines over in harms way right now. I support him and all the others in the service of our country around the world. Maybe you are saying I said what fadman said in the first part of these posts. Note I did not say the following fadman did.
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If as a society we can't be shown the results of war, maybe we should consider going to war in the first place. Where is respect in hiding?
1.7:
You posted --
War is a disrespectful act to humanity
-- and then go on to say --
May all soldiers share the same fate as this one.
Not a very "humane" train of thought there, sweetkins. Are the voices only being heard from one ear, or is it stereo for you?
Here's an idea; pick a side and stay on it. [And preferably as far away from decent human beings as possible.]
If you hate humanity, then just come right on out with it; no need to couch your misanthropic views with the "war is unhealthy for children and other living things" routine.
You have have about as much credibility on that point as the wannabe [cough, choke] "journalists" trying to defend the indefensible.
But go ahead on. It's a free country... because of our US soldiers you claim to detest.
Anyone who can hop up on his/her/its soap box and scream about inhumanity one second, and then wish the horror of what happened to that young Marine on anyone else, let alone, all, has a huge problem.
May you find a therapist who is able to drag you kicking and screaming back to the human race, pal. Barring that unlikely event, I'll leave it to your imagination where I think you should go.
Ken Waltz(1.7):
Hey Kenny baby, I dare you to to step out from behind the anonymity of Newsvine and repeat your statement to the first Marine you encounter face to face. And, oh yes, please invite me so I can watch.
Seriously? If these facists invade our country when you are an old defenseless man and they are defending your neighborhood, I hope you post your opinion of our soldiers on your front door, you stooge. And the remaining free world can watch your forced conversion or crybaby execution over and over on youtube. Don't know what infant fantasyland you live in but the world is not a nice place. These people hate us and will hit harder next 9/11, moron.
Our federal government has no respect for the men and women in the military, it sends them off to war under false pretenses to occupy countries that are no threat to us. The results of this lack of respect ought to be shown. There is no Family Wishes ammendment to the constitution, but there is one for Freedom of the Press, and it should be respected. If you don't like it, don't buy the paper, censorship is not the answer.
1.7 deleted, Ken Waltz trolling all soldiers. Yeesh. Cut it out.
...
"AP journalists document world events every day. Afghanistan is no exception. We feel it is our journalistic duty to show the reality of the war there, however unpleasant and brutal that sometimes is," said Santiago Lyon, the director of photography for AP.
I'll buy that.
Jacobson's journal is pretty incredible.
RIP, Lance Cpl.
I don't think that calling anyone names makes this discussion any better. How many of us have been in that situation or could judge the journalist? If she were to be mortally wounded, she may have wanted the pictures published as well, considering it newsworthy instead of having personal motives. That being said, when a grieving father has sacrificed his son for the sake of a cause, and if that father goes through that much effort to make a request that will soften the blow for his family, then the media should show that family all reverance and honor the request. Do we show all possible compassion for these families, or do we merely say we do? To me, in this situation, the actions denied any words of condolance.
Autie Dad
gmainco, are you saying we shouldn't have gone to war in Afghanistan? I don't remember the publishing of photos of bodies of people who threw themselves out of the World Trade Center while it was burning, or any other 911 victims for that matter.
What exactly would you have done to the Taliban after 9/11?
-----------------------------------------
No we had Video of 9/11 jumping burning bodies and all. Video the right wing in this country has for years almost since the day of have had no problem Use to scare us into voting for them.
What would I've have done after 9/11 well not panic for one which is what the majority of this country did. Two Special Forces units all over the country hunting enemy units, and three a full public humanitarian effort improving the life of the average Afghan which would undermine the Taliban and Al Quida. Without a afghan public fearing for there safety, food, and water both terror groups would have the majority of there recruits turning them down. While anyone left would be quickly and quietly killed or captured.
History shown it next to impossible to win a ground war in Afghanistan.
1) They DID ask the fellow marines, showed them the pictures - the ones who were there. And while some were squeamish, questionable about the one picture, none said "no".
2) part of the problem is this is a part of a photo essay on that soldier. Shwoing the other pictures them omitting the one is less than honest
3) There is nothing inherently disrespectful in showing the picture particularly as it is a part of a story that planned to show a typical day in this soldiers life; now serves to document his sacrifice. I don't know that it mya be considered more disrespectful to document the day to that point then hide the ending?
I think this is another attempt to falsely stir up people's emotions. We have seen a lot of these attempts from "Death panels" to "government takeover" and on and on. All they want to do is stir up trouble, make their money.
YES the father may have a problem with this but that is reality; some people will always have a problem with the truth. And the truth is his son made the ultimate sacrifice and this is what it looks like. No over glorification, No star=spangled hero - this is what heroism looks like. It is an important image and those who profess to respect our military, our fighting men and women would be better advised to show their respect and see the whole story of this one hero's last day - all of it - without editing
YES the father may have a problem with this but that is reality; some people will always have a problem with the truth.
I'm sure this young Marine's father is certainly well aware of the reality of war and the very real possibility of death or severe injuries. And I daresay he probably was well aware of it before his son was killed.
And the truth is his son made the ultimate sacrifice and this is what it looks like. No over glorification, No star=spangled hero - this is what heroism looks like.
"Over-glorification"? Merciful stars, what is that supposed to mean? War is a bloody, nasty business. "Glory" doesn't enter into it; our troops are following what they believe in, and following orders.
About dignity: No dignity with regard to that young man's heroism was afforded to him, and his parents and loved ones will never be the same.The family's grief trumps the public's need to know here, and they were trampled on.
I hope you have never experienced a horrific tragedy in your life concerning your loved ones, and though I disagree with your opinion, I hope you never do.
That said, imagine if you were in the same position this Marine's parents are in. Imagine how you would feel, the pain it would cause over and over again. The problem with so many in our society is that it's easy to justify things that are done for no other reason than [in this case] increased circulation, and the hope of furthering one's career.
Some people simply cannot put themselves in someone else's place for even a few minutes. That isn't compassion. It's something truly ugly.
If horror stories and photos/documentation had the power to help end wars, I believe someone would have caught on to that magic solution by now. Sensationalism isn't the way to help that.
It is an important image and those who profess to respect our military, our fighting men and women would be better advised to show their respect and see the whole story of this one hero's last day - all of it - without editing
The story could have been told every bit as well without the need to play show and tell. Those who have served, and their families, do not require a graphic depiction to realize just what war is, and in particular, the type of wars being fought at this very moment. Anyone not personally involved on some level with our troops and what they're dealing with who can read would know as well. If they need pictures drawn, that's really sad.
Those who feel obligated to postulate about how those of us who truly do respect not just our military, but their families' sacrifices as well, would be well advised to realize that we aren't clueless about what's going on.
I agree with the fact that they should not show the pictures against the family's wishes. I know that those Marines would have put there life on the line for that journalist, whether they agreed with him or not. I have yet to meet one who did not distort the story to accomplish his own agenda.
Always knew the media was the scum of the earth, this recent incident only reaffirms by belief!! Semper Fidelis
#2 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:40 PM EDTIf it was the journalist and the Marines published there would be lawsuits and the Marines locked up for the rest of their lifes for being cruel and inhuman.
#3 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:44 PM EDTI think the family's wishes should have been respected. My granddaughter is in the Army and I would never want a picture of her published like that. It is nothing but sensational journalism and that reporter and his company should be ashamed. It is a dirty way to make money.
#4 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDTthe news media will cause the death of Freedom as we know it. electing Obama,news photo's like this and NONOBJECTIONABLE journalism
#5 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:48 PM EDTThis has nothing to do with the election of President Obama . . . get your head out of your backside . . .
To blame this insensitive act on Pres. Obama is just as tragic as the act itself. I think its so sad that some Americans feel they must blame him for every one of our little unthinkable acts. Pres. Obama had nothing to do with this photographer's choice to shoot these photos, not did he have a decision in the news-guru's choice to publish it. stop hating the president to the point that you cannot use common-sense in your own thinking. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. stop the hating on the President. put the blame where it should be...on the money-hungry media.
Yes but it's the same media that brainwashed voters so they would vote for Obamarama. What a terrible time in our history.
Bill, you have lost it!! Don't you remember who put cameras on the front lines even before the troops landed in Iraq? Bush made a circus out of it. If you don't like the pictures of what is happening in the name of this country then tell your congress to get us the hell out of there. We can't win in Afgan any more than the Russians could. No more of our kids need to die. It' getting too much like Vietnam - a total no-win situation because the last administration F-- ked it up. No more dead or wounded kids and then there will be no more photos.
Jetgeorge: Does this mean you don't blame Pres Bush for anything?
Can we keep the politics out of this? We're talking about a soldier's family in agony. We don't need to blame Obama who had nothing to do with this!
As a Veteran that was wounded twice in combat I would never have wanted my family to see the photos of those incidents. It is shameful what the media has done.
#6 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:49 PM EDTThanks for your sacrifice and for your service to our country, dvet!
Yes thank you for all you have done. I have a Grandson in the Marines (and I e-mail him daily to thank him and all the guys and gals over there for what they are doing for Americans) and would hate to think some low life photographer could take pictures of him and then disregard our families wishes that they not be shown.
As a photographer/videographer myself, I'm personally apalled that any photographer would begin to think about it. Sad to say, there are a lot of vultures out there. They think that one photo will launch them into the pantheon of fame.
I suppose it's like any other industry. There is always the bottom feeder out there that will do anything in his/her power for success.
In honor of the Marine I would shred it all and give it to the family.
May God have mercy on your soul, because I don't think the Marines you are embedded with will.
#7 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:49 PM EDTThe Marine died so that she had the freedom to be there, she wanted fame and I trust that she will have a very long life to consider the lasting harm she did to the family. The picture can never be taken back. Pray for the family and all who are serving like my son that is there now!
Pray for the family and all who are serving like my son that is there now!
Will do Bill!
We are praying for all families who have had lives taken and for those still in combat. May God protect your son - and God Bless America!
Matt, I applaud you. Remember, there is fame, and there is infamy. God be with all military families everywhere that must grieve for lost ones.
As a marine mother I am very proud of my son's service to his country. I have been strong and supportive and not exposed him or his buddies to my fears and nightmares. However,if something were to happen to him I would like to think that the country he gave his life for could show enough respect to his family to allow me to grieve in priviate. If someone out there has a issue with that, they might find out why I have a bumper sticker on my car that says "THERE'S NOTHIN MEANER THAN A MARINE 'CEPT HIS MAMA".
#8 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:52 PM EDTAP is scum!!!!!!
They should be completely boycotted and shut-down. Enough is enough! Americans need to stand up and say enough! What ever happened to common sense and decency! The press is out-of-control. Scum, scum, scum, scum, scum, scum, scum. Karma will reign and AP will receive justice in kind.
#9 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:52 PM EDTMakes me damn glad that I DO NOT subscribe to or purchase any newspapers!
Are you this outraged at the liar Bush who sent these kids over there to be blown to bits without proper equipment. Seems you are shooting the messenger because you don't like seeing what your idiot bushie did.
You had better worry about Obamarama you ain't seen hell yet. Remember he's "president" not president Bush. God bless you President Bush for showing courage.
Until today I had the AP app on my Iphone. I called the AP, left a message, that I'm sure will never get heard, and removed the app from my phone. I want nothing to do with them any longer. Just sensationalism for a buck!!
Amen Gary, AMEN!!!!!! Hey Bolton, just exactly how long does Bush have to be out of office before you and your ilk stop blaming him for everything that's wrong with this country? How many more campaign promises does the liar in the White House have to break before someone starts calling him on it? He said he had a 1 year plan to withdraw all our troops, 10 months ago. I guess Bush is responsible for that too.
The true colors of the media are shown here they have no respect for people. Our soldiers are willing to put thier life on the line for this scum to have a job. It does not surprise me a bit as I have always known that the media is full of people worse than Hitler.
#10 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDTGeorge
How about "worse than George Bush who lied and sent 4300 to their deaths and thousands of more to lives with severe disabilities" instead of the tired old Hitler comparisons. Righties have used it so much that it is meaningless.
J Bolton
Thank God Obama has a Defense Secretary that will stand up and speak out against AP. Dishonoring the soldier's family was - WRONG!
George - you have my vote!!!
One time there was a journalist by the name of ernie pyle, not tabloid journalist photo ambulance chasers that get a thrill on the gore and pain of family hurt
#11 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDTBoth George I and George II invited cameras in to record the Gulf war and then the Iraq war. I could believe what I was seeing during that stupid shock and awe crap -all staged by Bush and the phony rescue of the female on the stretcher - just so happened the cameras were there at the right time and right angle with the right lighting. It's news if the Bush boys set it up, but it's tabloid if a real photog gets an unstaged photo of the true cost of war.
I think Bush should have to look at a photo of the dead bodies of every soldier killed in his phony war and should have to see the pictures of all the injured and apologize to each of them in person for ruining their futures.
You must be the same people that don't think we are war. Hellooooooo!!!!
Hey...hey... I know this is troubling for many...but listen folks, without the free press to persue the truth, no matter what...is what keeps this country truly free. Even though the press is not perfect, and of course all of you critics are, it is the only bastion we have between the lying politicians and the scams they pull on us every day... Why do you idiots think that freedom of the press is protected by the constitution of the United States? Get your heads out of your emotional asses...and think for a change...it will do you all good...
Wrong! It's not the media that keeps this country truly free - it's soldiers like Lance Corporal Bernard that keeps this country free. This is not a constitutional matter - it is a decency and respect for your fellow American matter. That photograph did absolutely nothing to ensure or protect my freedom. What Lance Corporal Bernard and others like him have done do protect my freedom. Maybe you should get your emotional head out of the media's ass and think for yourself for a change, idiot!
The problem is, THEY pick and choose what is presented based upon corrupt rules, not what is decent. What was the value of showing a dying son? It certainly does not inform the uninformed. It is not an emotional issue; it is a fight for decency and human survival. I will not get into an abstract discussion about why humanity is slowly sinking into the depths of chaos and destruction, but this is a small addition to our desensitization about good and sensitization of bad. It is the EASY thing, like video games and other forms of "entertainment" to sensitize and create unfavorable human associations.
West, are you gullible enough to think that the press are free, independent purveyors of the news? The "lying politicians" you speak of have the press in their pocket....actually in their billfod/purse. Since 72' everyone has wanted to be Woodward and Bernstien and they step on anyone to get there. As stated so elequeontly above, AP IS SCUM!
i don't think that the first amendment gives the press a free ride to go against the familys wishes in this case. sounds like the AP news pissed a lot of people off as it should have going against what the family wanted !!!!!!
Matt, you are right on . . . I have had that thought about the WaterGate Syndrome for a long time . . . I wish I had said it ! ! !
To have you refer to us that are offended by the publishing of the photo as idiots shows ignorance on your part. I've thought about this, and have concluded the photo should not have been published. The family wished it not be shown. By the AP doing this, proves the media's out of control. God bless the family of this fallen hero.
It's not a matter of having our "heads up our emotional asses"... (let's hope that phrase doesn't catch on...) I think it's a matter of choosing not to make the Bernard family suffer further loss, period. It's enough that they lost their son, and that he died so violently, but to be surrounded in the press by gruesome photos of the moment of his death would be torturous and publishing them does not serve any greater good, other than to increase ratings for AP and to bolster the enemy's confidence in their tactics. I'm all for free press, but journalists should not check their human decency at the door when they go to work. They could've written about the story of any number of soldiers who have died in violent ways in this stinking war and gotten the permission of the family prior to publishing (though publishing those picture is wrong as well, in my opinion). I'm sure there are families out there that would permit it because of their outrage at the war. It's obvious that this was about career-making stories/photos, but THIS family asked specifically that photos of their son, the once-child that they bore, nurtured and raised and invested their lives in, NOT be plastered all over public TV and in publications in order to keep from putting this family through any further anguish. I am the daughter of a Retired Naval Officer and if it were my Father, I certainly would do everything in my power to keep photos like these private. SHAME ON AP. FOR SHAME.
hey westcoastie, you ever serve in the military or are you a coward??
"hey westcoastie, you ever serve in the military or are you a coward??"
**********
I think his username answers your question.
Scouts out.
Get your heads out of your emotional asses...and think for a change...it will do you all good
________________________________________________________________________
I can only (as a Marine Grandma) hope that you will put your head back in your emotional a$$ where you belong. Too say media gives us our freedoms is the stupidest thing you could say. The media profits from our constitution, those that wrote it and all those that have fought and died for it. Even your right to say these stupid things was won for you by those same honorable Americans.
How come it doesn't surprize me that you are on the West Coast!!!! Glad not all people out there are as dense as you.
I had 2 uncles who have died in WWII. 1 uncle died in Korea, 3 older cousins died in Viet Nam, and 3 cousins who took on 3 tours each in Iraq and ALL came back w/ horrible memories and flashbacks of these terrible events. WHY WOULD I WANT TO REMEMBER THEM DEAD ON THE FRONT LINE!! Westie, have signed up for any branch of military or do you get a rush from the sick things you say? I believe you're a coward of the utmost and just want a resonse to what you say! maybe they should post a picture of your family member lying dead for all to see. I think you get a sick rise like all the petifiles and murderers and abusers out there! use your f-----n head!!! we are HERE to protect the ones whose families are over THERE!!!!
dude, give us a break! its not the media that keeps this country free. Its men like this Marine who has suffered and died for our cause. People like you always seem to have it twisted! Take away the Marines, soldiers and sailors and who would you have to protect your country? noone! Take away the media and who do you have to protect your country? The Marines, soldiers and sailors... and they'd have more room to do it in because they wouldnt have the media in thier way. You think just as this news guru guy did....stupidly.
Would it not be true that the picture of the Marine in question belongs to him and therefore his family? Would it also not be true that they need the permission of someone before printing their likeness? Is it not true that his family said no?
AP is an arrogant organization; full of itself and its designated self aggrandized version of what is news. They owed it to the Marine's family to NOT use his photo. Free speech also has limits. Common sense should play a role somewhere. Oh, that is right, we do not use common sense anymore.
There's a world of difference between opening the arrival of fallen soldiers, with the families OK, to the media and this. Gates was right. It's not a matter of policy. It's a matter of decency. It's too bad some need to use any opportunity to criticize the president.
#13 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDTFredV--thank you for that. While it is true that Obama ok'd the media coverage of the arrival of fallen soldiers, it is only with the APPROVAL OF THE FAMILY!! The same should hold true with this incident. As the very proud mom of an active duty US Marine, I am sickened by the behavior of the AP. I once considered them to be a reputable news source.
Semper Fi Lance Corporal Bernard and Family..God Bless..
So maybe Obama's policy should be changed to ANY photo of ANY military personnel must have written consent from either the subject photographed, or the family in the event the subject photographed can no longer speak for themselves. Without such consent, any printed photos should be subject to hefty fines (payable to the families) and criminal charges.
The flag-covered coffins of fallen servicemen/women are to be photographed - NOT the broken, shattered bloddied bodies. When will we figure out that it's just another sensationalized plea for more military spending? Sensitivity does not enter into this discussion; neither does human decency. If it had, this discussion would not exist.
I wonder how Curley would feel about a picture of his child, if he has any on the front page had they been killed in war or a accident, I doubt that would happen. He shows no respect for the family of a young man that gave his life. I served two years in Viet Nam and was wounded three times, I certainly did not want my parents or sisters to see me in that condition. My son is in Iraq and my son-in-law is in Afganistan, I would not want their familes to see such pictures. To bad there is no crime for this trash
#14 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDTThere's a world of difference between opening the arrival of fallen soldiers, with the families OK, to the media and this. Gates was right. It's not a matter of policy. It's a matter of decency. It's too bad some need to use any opportunity to criticize the president.
#16 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:58 PM EDTI rank most Media members among used car salesmen, politicians and child molesters. Enough said.
#17 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:58 PM EDTTommyR
I'm not sure you are being fair to used car salesmen, politicians and child molesters. The actions of AP and this photographer are a new low.
The press only publishes bad news because it sells. There are very few good stories. America needs to learn that we need to buy some good news. In this case, the writer should have respected the family wish and not published it. I am a veteran of the Vietnam war and I would not appreciate someone showing my death or other wounds. They are personal. Would you like me to take photos of your mother passing away or you son or daughter passing away and then puttin them in the paper?
#18 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:58 PM EDTIt's funny the lengths the Liberal Media will go to to piss people off! What a bunch of A-holes.
#19 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:59 PM EDTThe news media should rethink placing these pictures where the public could see them. If it was my son I'd probably lose it if some idiot published pictures of that nature!
#20 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:59 PM EDTif it was my son i would shoot the reporter and photographer
I agree. If they want sensationalism, shoot the reporters, I don't think many would object would they. I for one wouldn't.
It's no surprise. The media has no respect and chooses to print and use what benefits them. Why do you think you don't hear truth of what's going on in every aspect of our government? They should NOT be embedded with our troops. If they'd been there in WWII I wonder what the outcome would have been. War is hell, always has been and all they do is feed the frenzy of the crazies who have forgotten history. My sympathies to the family of this lost warrior.
#21 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:59 PM EDTYou're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
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Always thought the media was the scum of the earth, this only reaffirms my belief.