"Still, the mission is seen as the Obama administration letting Kim Jong Il save face by freeing the reporters. The payoff — maybe not right away — is likely to be renewed dialogue with Pyongyang about its nuclear weapons program."
Are they never going to learn? Look, i'm happy that those 2 journalists are released, good for them, but this is NOT how diplomacy should work! North Korea will NOT change their minds about their program. That has become abundantly clear. Trading 2 ladies at the cost of risking the lives of millions is pure idiocy!
They should have left them there. Maybe they would have learned something and shown other idiots (like the ones in Iran) that if you play, you will pay!
Good to see them released, but the government need to start telling the idiot news organizations and reporters, that if you are where you are not supposed to be, live with the consequences. You can't tell me that Clinton did this on his own. He had the o.k. to give North Korea something. obama needs something to distract from his poor performance. The one question left is, what did we give up? There is no way that Clinton asks for their release and all of a sudden they are released. It is not North Korea's way.
KMartin: i guess those long-range missile tests on July 4th can just be neglected, right? Or how about the threat to attack the US ships near their shores?
And what prevents North Korea to pick up a few more Americans and throw them in jail without a fair trial? Are they going to fly over again and make a few more concessions, likely on their nuclear program? But yeah, by all means, give the North Koreans some more time.
"The mission is seen as the Obama administration letting Kim Jong Il save face". I bet Kim Jong Il is simply laughing his butt off right now.
You really believe that's all NK will get out of this is an apology and a photo op? They have shown themselves to be much better negotiators then that.
I see that the Republicans/Conservatives are already trying to spin this release into some sort of "Obama's kissing North Korean ass" lie-fest. All you Republican idiots are whining about how 2 American lives aren't worth "being laughed at" by the world -- Well, I have news for you, morons: The world has been laughing at us ever since Bush stole his first presidency. President DUHb-ya was a freakin' joke to the entire planet, and you'd better be damn grateful that now we have a man in the White House who doesn't think the way to settle every problem is to swagger around and try to prove that he has bigger weapons than his daddy did. We're lucky that we weren't blown off the map while Bush was in the WH. It's pretty astounding that we weren't, considering how he made us the most hated nation ever.
I know that you Republicans/Conservatives are frightened by people who have the ability to think, but my god, don't you people have anything positive to contribute to our society, or are you still so busy pouting about your complete rout in the last elections that you can't see your way clear to do anything but whine these days? IT'S BEEN 9 MONTHS -- GET OVER IT, BRING SOMETHING GOOD TO THE NATIONAL TABLE, AND MOVE ON!!!!!!!
Former Fed Agent: "How does diplomacy 'should work'?"
Well, i would define diplomacy as the art of negotiation between representatives of countries (or other institutions or even individuals) with the aim to improve economic, political, social, military (and many other categories) situations, both for the parties involved and the community as a whole.
Providing concessions to North-Korea, most likely related to their nuclear program, does not exactly fall within that definition, especially considering their latest military provocations.
Pay no mind to the delusional crowd. All they're good at is lying and everyone knows they're full of BS. Why do you think they're party is full of nutty religious ideologues and desperate, corrupt suits clinging to political life. They're a joke. At this point, I invite them to spin any tale they'd like. That 'birther' gig went really sweet.
I love watching these nutty folk destroy themselves.
Hey Mister Dudley do-dumb! Let's get your loved ones trapped in a situation you so badly want to save them from and we'll say the same thing to you: "let them stay there." How kind and compassionate, how caring....NOT!
You know if take out the word religous, you descrided the democrats to perfection. Never seen a group so desperate for anything they can claim as a win.
I honestly think they should pay for their stupidity by reimbursing the taxpayers for the money spent on this mission. Only a complete dumba$$, of all the places in the world, would travel close to the NK border or the Iranian one. You know what, as a matter of fact i need a well deserved vacation. Italy, perhaps? Or maybe France or the Pacific. Ooh, i know where. Pakistan's swat valley close to the Afghan border. I heard is very nice this time of year and they are very friendly to Americans. This is going to be the best vacation ever.
Former Fed Agent: "Providing an apology to North Korea in exchange for the lives of 2 American citizens falls exactly within that definition, especially considering the alternative: They rotting in jail for 12 years!"
You do not honestly believe that they were released in exchange for just an apology, do you?
Thank you President Clinton for showing great diplomacy to finish the job and bring these girls home. I know this man was flawed liked all politicians well humans really, and yes he made mistakes but for my money this was the last person that was worthy of holding the title President of the United States.
It is amazing how much clout this man still has. Only time will tell if there was indeed something given up for the release of these girls. After all it is politics and we all know that is a dirty game rather it is a republican or a democrat throwing the ball.
I just watched the homecoming on TV. Laura Ling and Euna Lee were told they were going to a meeting and feared the worst. When they got to the meeting - who did they see ?
PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON
If you don't think that Hillary had something to do with this, you are a fool.
And once again the Clintons prove to AMERICANS that they are the bomb.
And who are the losers who did not vote for Hillary?
They finally woke up and smelled the Obama coffee and are regretting it.
"Two were working and most probably kidnapped along the border.
The other three were probably kidnapped..."
There are a whole bunch of "probablys" in there. Way too many for me. Instead of looking at this on an emotional level, please looks at the facts......something bleeding heard democratic liberals have a problem doing....we could discuss he facts and negative fallout of these two idiot women but it wouldn't do any good with your type.
Gosh, North Korea is living the dream, government health care, government housing, government indoctrination, public transportation, government appliances, government food farming. Why would these women want to leave this paradise of government programs? Why don't the great thinkers here go there and sample the cornucopia of benefits under the umbrella of the benevolent leadership of a powerful government?
Welcome back ladies, glad to see your still phsyically intact.
Bubba surplanted both useless Hillary and the balding Algore in order to make this trip, I can imagine that the useless syndrome has crept into the latters line of thinking and who could imaging a pack of embellishing prognosticators by birth, would be related by incident. Bubba was convinced the mission was called "Rescue in Poontang" that could be attributed to his age and hearing. I said could be, but unlikely.
The Algore ladies are wondering what the heck made them think that just because they and their crowd leaned toward communism, that they would just skip over the border and gleefully announce their intent to interview the ordinary N. Korean commie but were rudely awakened to the fact that lying, torture and killing were a major part of how real communism really works and that border control was a serious matter. Unlike the U.S. the N. Koreans take their sovereingty seriously.
So now we are all wondering, just how much did this esacape by idiots from a seriously land of Ill-ness, of frivolus lib persuasion cost this country? Unfortunately we are going to find out.
""LIbs love to tell you all about what they don't know and expect you to listen as though each word spoken was written in stone".....excerpt from the Happy Hippie handbook.
Rae thanks I was going to post but you said it all for me. I agree with you 100%.I am starting to like Kim Jong ill more than the repugs in this country who contribute nothing and run there mouths all the time.Thanks again Rae.
I'm sure had W still been in power, that you wouldn't have to complain about a President like Barack Obama who understands diplomacy is give and take. Nope, if GW was still in power the reporters would be there til hell froze over for all he cared. Only right wing idiots could complain at all about an administration who at least offers hope of being able to talk to repressive nations. What is your answer----just bomb them into oblivion? We know from sad experience that does not work.
The back story will come out slowly but you can be sure that bclinton would not have set foot on the plane UNLESS the deal was done!
Your Tapper is a fool to imply that the the White house was not involved and the underhanded slam of the relationship between the clintons and Obama..Tapper needs to be reassigned to New Jersey!
Iran is a problem---this will set up a precedent for the runt to try to exploit..Best it be kept separate!
Karen in LA: The "Obama coffee" is brewed with the finest beans given to him by the Clintons. Obama has the good sense to utilize both Bill and Hillary in his administration for good and I think that says a lot about Obama and his leadership. Maybe you're still upset that Hillary lost out to Obama, she was my first choice too. But in any event, the two share the same policy ideals and goals with only very minor exceptions as best as I can tell.
So let me get this straight Rae...Because they Reps lost they get to have no say or complaint?? Wow...Seems that didn't stop you Dems for the last 8 years....And you all used the excuse that you had the right because you are Americans and it wasn't un-maerican to complain....And now look at you...
God will the hypocrisy ever end??
I haven't really followed this story much, but now that I've read up on it...a question:
How big of an idiot is Mr. Al Gore for sending these very young ladies into a nutball country like North America ??? I did not know that they worked for some loonie news organization run by Mr. Gore...what in God's name was he thinking ??? They are barely out of their teens. Would any of the media organizations have criticized him had those two girls gotten themselves killed in a country where that quite possibly could have happened ???
I am very happy about the two women being released. I am extremely proud of President Clinton doing this and ensuring they safe release of these girls.
I am proud President Obama has let it be known this was the effort of Al Gore and President Clinton.
HOWEVER, Al Gore is the reason any of this happened and he should not be praised in any way shape or manner. The limelight and every accolade belongs to the Clinton's.
Gore should be brought up on charges for allowing two of HIS employee's into a situation that did not need to happen.
Bill was the right man for the job. He had good relations with N.K while in office and they liked him. Then Bush came in and screwed it all up by taking away the aid we were giving them. Sometimes you need to "bribe" a country into being good and that is what Bill did. I sure do miss Bill, to me, and I am only 50, he was great. Sure he had his flaws but they were on personal matter. Our country was doing great and we had money in the bank.
WOW!!! Talk about grandstanding.. Do any of you actually think that Clinton went over there and in 1 day got this done? This deal was already done, days ago. Clinton's still the same POS he was back in the day when he called himself president. Same as the clown we have now running the country into the ground.
People that actually believe clinton did this really need to think about it......idiots!!!
I'll say it again -- Two innocent Americans are home safely, not a shot was fired, and we don't look like a bunch of ignorant cowboys ready to go nuclear over every single political development that goes against us. We look like reasonable, intelligent people who understand that we are not the only country on the planet. This is an epic win for the U.S, and it was achieved by diplomacy -- a sadly lacking necessity in a Republican administration. Look up the definition of that word, Conservatives -- you will not find the phrase, "Go to war over everything."
Last night the radio and TV was abuzz about the release of these two young woman. You had your 'so-called' experts and critics with their positions. Look people, Clinton got these 2 freed, saved them from 12 years of prison and hard labor. This doesnt change anything with or about Korea in my opinion, so quit trying to make more out of it than what is necessary. One thing about America...everyone is a critic and everyone is an expert. No wonder why we cant unite and pull our heads out of our a$$e$ to make this country great again.
The missile tests were a result of the Bush we're not going to talk to you policy. It does't work to just ignore a problem and hope it will go away, the cornerstone of Bush foriegn policy.
You know if take out the word religous, you descrided the democrats to perfection. Never seen a group so desperate for anything they can claim as a win.
Yeah, poor guys, they're desperate, they only won the last elections! The GOP is ecstatic, they lost!! I can see why!
According to the news reports on this matter, a deal to get these girls home has been in the works for quite some time. Mr. Clinton did not simply swoop in and make this happen.
And as for "every accolade belongs to THE Clintons".....ole Hilary was derided and just about booted out of the country...after being clearly ( and hilariously ) insulted by North Korea's leaders.
We should have sent Bush and Cheney instead... difference is they could stay there. I know, I know... it wouldn't be an even trade... but it would take NK a while to realize they'd been duped.
literally a WILD CARD worked on this instance, B. Clinton..Cheers to the release of the journalists !!..the act of compassion was deeply appreciated, N.K..more than I can say about the financial/ corporate system here..no pulse, just cold calculated economic misery here..
When will Americans ever learn. Stay the hell away from any borders that are at odds with the American government. NOW we have three more , "Hikers" that staggered too near the Iranian border. It will put the American government in a very weak position to make some kind of gift or concession to Iran. With all the areas on this globe to , "Hike" why for gosh sakes do the idiots spend their time so close to the Iranian border? It was, "Pretty scenery", there they say. There are alot of other pretty places in this world, they should be going to those. I think the American government should put out a bulletin stating that if you as American civilians walk too close to a Rogue government's borders.....YOU WILL HAVE TO DO YOUR OWN NEGOTIATIONS to be released from their prisons. And good luck to you.
Journalists? Really? At least they are home safe. Get ready for their media blitz/15 mins of fame. We'll hear their story over and over only soon to be forgotten. Could we at least revoke their passports for a while?
Isn't it funny how george W should be the one on emmisary trips on behalf of the USA, but instead the administration would rather deal with Clinton and Gore.
You know the Obama administration had no choice, but to use Bill because George W had squandered all worldwide diplomacy offered to him after 9-11 and there was nobody left to trust in the GOP after the last 8 years of miserable failure.
We should have sent Bush and Cheney instead... difference is they could stay there. I know, I know... it wouldn't be an even trade... but it would take NK a while to realize they'd been duped.
Well, i would define diplomacy as the art of negotiation between representatives of countries (or other institutions or even individuals) with the aim to improve economic, political, social, military (and many other categories) situations, both for the parties involved and the community as a whole.
Providing concessions to North-Korea, most likely related to their nuclear program, does not exactly fall within that definition, especially considering their latest military provocations.
Yep, we provided concessions. We undoubtedly gave them all our nuclear information, and probably threw in a few long range missiles with 100 megaton warheads on them for good measure. We improved their "economic, political, social, military (and many other categories) situation". We obviously gave them hundreds of billions of dollars, provided every citizen with steak and lobster dinners every evening for the next ten years, and built five bedroom, two bath houses for them as well. All in exchange for two journalists.
And I'm the King of Belgium.
Get real! There is no way -- none, zero, nada -- we gave them anything to do with theirs or anybody else's nuclear program! No money exchanged hands, no goods were bartered, no promises made. Kim Jong Il had nothing to gain by holding Lee and Ling. He was given the opportunity to save face by releasing them, and nothing more.
But look at the bright side, whiny Republican apologists. Now you can go back to more "important" things, like making a better forgery of Obama's "Kenyan birth certificate" (note: it still won't work, because it will still be a forgery!), making more unfounded claims that a Living Will means that people who have them must pick the time and date they have to die, and complaining that the Cash for Clunkers program is a waste of money...but be sure to ignore the fact that besieged car dealers are having a sales boom, or that workers in the automobile factories are working to build the cars, or that we're getting the old, gas guzzling, air polluting cars off the road, and maybe even doing something that takes a step toward reducing our dependence on foreign oil...unless you like sending our money to Saudi Arabia! Oh, and let's not forget that you can now go to the Town Hall meetings with your members of Congress and make fools of yourselves by allowing the health care industry lobbyists to tell you what to say and how to act (short version: act like second graders!) while not allowing actual discussion of any issues. Look up "lemming" in your Funk and Wagnall's and there's your picture!
Welcome home, Euna Lee and Lisa Ling. The good news is, you do not have any Republicans or their b*tch and moan followers to thank for your release...
Tom, I agree with you, who the hell goes hiking in iraq!! Something is very wrong with this story. They are screwed just because they didn't go hiking in the good ole U.S.A
WOW!!! Talk about grandstanding.. Do any of you actually think that Clinton went over there and in 1 day got this done? This deal was already done, days ago. Clinton's still the same POS he was back in the day when he called himself president.
Rod, I think you're suffering from a bad case of the swine flu. Perhaps you caught it while voting for the republican ticket, or snivelling that obama won. Regardless, Clinton did more good for this country that reagan and george W combined.
DGW: "Yep, we provided concessions. We undoubtedly gave them all our nuclear information, and probably threw in a few long range missiles with 100 megaton warheads on them for good measure. We improved their "economic, political, social, military (and many other categories) situation". We obviously gave them hundreds of billions of dollars, provided every citizen with steak and lobster dinners every evening for the next ten years, and built five bedroom, two bath houses for them as well. All in exchange for two journalists. And I'm the King of Belgium."
Nope, if the concession is about renewed dialogue, then they have given North Korea the only thing it needs: time.
Moral of the story: It pays to know people in high places. Lee and Ling would be embarking right now on a 15 year life of misery, if Ling's older sister hadn't had what little celebrity that she has. She, through her connections was able to take the story nationally in the media and keep it there for a considerably long time, considering the disposable news culture we have today.
If it were you or I, do you really think Al and Bill would have been so passionate about getting our release? Like moths are drawn to light, Bill and Al saw an opportunity to get some media exposure out of this human drama because it was getting national exposure. If it had been you or I, we would have been lucky to receive a paragraph on page 15 of the world news section of the local newspaper and maybe one care package from our families during our 15 years of hard labor.
I'm glad that these women are back on US soil. But, what kind of a Dumb Ass Fool sent these women to North Korea in the first place?? Is anyone asking that question?
So Rudy please explain what nuclear concession were given up ? do you have a inside mole that advised you on the discussions by the former president and little Kim, or his advisers, assumptions run wild on these posts, so does ideological talking points that are stated as fact, My question is sincere though, if you have information that leads to the assumption something has been given up , please tell. I may have missed something , was a apology made ? all I heard reported was a thank you, I do know the last eight years of our foreign policy didn't work, it ended up with a successful nuclear weapons test and more missile test, it also fomented the idea that a non super power nation has only one option to protect its self from an aggressive super power, and that's to have a nuclear weapon, and that is a deeply concerning thought that was not considered the last eight years. while other nations watched as this country invaded a country that hadn't attacked this nation, the fear ran through many nations they could be next if there was a disagreement or if they had something useful a super power wanted..oil, minerals,nation building to reshape the world, or a particular area, or a passage way needed for a distribution of resources? Every move creates a counter move, so foreign policy must looked at for every possibility on the chessboard before making decisions, something former UN representative Mr Bolton (who criticized former president Clinton and the Obama adminstration today for meeting with the North Koreans) wouldn't have a clue about, as he is so mirrored in ideology.
Yeah, we had a sweet deal with NK before someone blew it! All we had to do was provide them with aid and they wouldn't harm anyone. But that's extortion isn't it?
Yep, we sent the right man. It takes a crook to deal with a crook.
I absolutely agree with dudleydoright, even though his comment was collapsed by the community.
I'm glad the women were released. Of course.
But, I am overwhelmed with irritation that Americans keep "wandering" into territory of hostile countries!! The latest; 3 tourists in Iran, what are we arrogant, or just stupid?
The State Department should issue a warning to all Americans; get caught in a country you don't belong in, fend for yourself!!! Enough!!
"The State Department should issue a warning to all Americans; get caught in a country you don't belong in, fend for yourself!!! Enough!!"
The State Department did issue a warning telling people to be careful about where you go, as for fending for yourself, you may have to look at it that way depending where you are, but this adminstration so far does not seem to take that attitude, it seems to try and make efforts to help citizens who have been caught in this situation as seen by these two women released today.
Let me get this straight....when you referred to a previous post about North Korea's firing off a bunch of missiles in June and July, you say that was the result of George Bush's policies toward that country.
So help me understand...the absolute lunatic in charge of North Korea is angry at Bush...for whatever reason...so he waits unitl the NEXT president is in office for 6 or 7 months and then starts firing missiles....and that is to retaliate for Bush's policies ???
Moral of the story: It pays to know people in high places. Lee and Ling would be embarking right now on a 15 year life of misery, if Ling's older sister hadn't had what little celebrity that she has. She, through her connections was able to take the story nationally in the media and keep it there for a considerably long time, considering the disposable news culture we have today.
So...you're saying that if your sister were held abroad you wouldn't use the media to try to get her released?
Microsoft sucks Regardless, Clinton did more good for this country that reagan and george W combined.
Are you friggin serious!!! The 1994 Agreed Framework came about as a compromise with a NK some believed had already developed nuclear weapons technology, and perhaps a nuclear bomb or two. Concern over this issue came about in the 1980s, when it became clear that NK wanted to design and develop both long-range ballistic missiles, and nuclear weapons. Their weapons programs were clearly designed for dual use, in that they wanted to sell weapons and weapons technology while building up their own arsenal to strengthen their position on the Korean peninsula. Bill Clinton didn't cause this problem to come into being, but he certainly did not take the necessary steps to deal with it, even as it became clear that North Korea was notabiding by the 1994 Agreed Framework. President's from the end of the Korean War forward have been trying to negotiate with NK and they have continued to build weapons. When are people going to learn you cannot negotiate with this country for anything without China. And China isn't going to pull them completely in because they don't want a democratic country on their borders.
I am glad the women are safe and at home with their families. But it is time that Americans learn you cannot go near any terrorist country without facing the consequences.
I have to say nice work on the part of President Clinton.I guess there's no one better to free up a couple of women.Seriously though I am glad they are free and maybe it shows a thawing of the scary situation that involves North Korea right now.Any time one of these regimes seeks a positive image it's a good thing.
Uh...john t...If you do your homework you'll see that missles have been fired pretty much darn near every administration for the oh past 4....So please blaming Bush is old....He's out of office....Get over it...
"Pyongyang, July 5 (KCNA) -- Kim Yong Nam, president of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly of the DPRK, Sunday sent a message of greetings to Hugo Chavez Frias, President of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, on the occasion of its independence day.
Expressing belief that the friendly and cooperative relations between the DPRK and Venezuela would continue to grow strong, Kim in his message wished the president and people of Venezuela greater success in their work to defend the Bolivarian socialist revolution."
palco - Even though I believe NK and Kim Jong Il to be totally over the edge, I think you make a good point about these types of country’s being afraid of the US' aggression. I mean they were told they had one of two choices they were either with us or against us. What kind of tyrant gives the whole world that kind of ultimatum? You can't even choose to be neutral, either join us or we may invade you.
Ironic these ladies work for Gore, a leading figure in a party that apparently dislikes America. They got a real taste of an oppressive government. Twelve years for crossing the border - at hard labor. They sure were glad to get back to this place so many complain about. I bet several of the issues their magazine rants about - waterboarding, the gay agenda, racial profiling, global warming, and other trivial b/s seem less significant now that they have witnessed first hand how bad things can be elsewhere. Welcome home.
And by the way. Let's not forget the Bill clinton that sided with Jane Fonda in Viet Nam. bashing the United States while among communist of thier own kind. If you accept that, then you are nothing but a supporter of a traitor to the United States of America.
Tony yes the last in a series of tests that started well before Bush left office. Though slow we were making progress with N Korea before Bush decided to punish them by not talking to them, Bush's third grade style diplomacy ramped up our problems with N Korea .
I agree little Kim is over the edge. and we know he has a nuclear weapon, I don't think our 35 thousand troops at the border or the South Koreans want of taste of it either.
So Johnt...you think we should "talk" to a country who blackmails the world into concessions...Who uses threats to get what they want...Go back, again, and do some research and look at all the times he has acted out, and then look to see what he was given in exchange to stop...Look to see how many times he has "talked" to the world...So yeah....It's Bush's fault he's been acting this way as far back as before the Clinton administration....You hate Bush so much you'd blame him for global warming too huh??
So Rob. What is your solution ? What was bush's solution ? Pretend he's not there ? It's funny bush invaded Iraq because sadam was a bad man. But won't touch NK. I guarantee he would be able to find the WMDs in NK. Maybe he was afraid of the one and a quarter billion screaming Chinese? Or maybe NK doesn't have enough oil?
It's not up to me to have a solution, but when you give in to a Bully he will always come back for more if you do...Why should we talk to them??
So Bush ignored them....That was his solution...Clinton allowed American companies to HELP BUILD THEIR REACTORS...The same ones that are producing your WMDs there..
Since they worked for Al Gore I would have made a trade, The two women for Al Gore. This way we wouldn't have to hear him on Global Warming.
Rachel, you talk about Cowboy Mentality, If Bill Clinton would have had a little himself all the American Embassies that were Blown up and PEOPLE DYING Bush wouldn't have did what he HAD TO DO.
When was the last time you heard about how many American are dying now that the Muslim Obama is in Office. AND YOU WON'T. You always heard about how many Americans died but you never heard how many of the TERRORIST we KILLED. Hundreds of Thousands. Thank You George Bush. I want to start a new following, THE BBB's ( B)ring( B)ack (B)ush.
Cowboy mentality? This is the ultimate cowboy act! Former president makes secret, solo mission to North Korea to rescue two journalists. How much more "cowboy" can you get?
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad the women were released. But wouldn't it have been better if they hadn't been arrested or captured or whatever in the first place? Certain places in the world - North Korea and Iran being among them - have been deemed too dangerous for anyone to visit. Like Beirut several years ago, people, not just journalists but students and tourists too, kept right on going there in spite of warnings about risking their safety. Is a news story really worth that kind of sacrifice? Considering the way that news organizations lately tend to push a certain agenda rather than just report facts, I doubt it.
Aside from the details of this "rescue", what does this say about the state of US foreign policy? Secretary of State Clinton chides North Korea for their actions and urges enforcement of UN sanctions. Perfectly reasonable given North Korea's recent berhavior. North Korea responds in the most juvinile way possible with name-calling, personal comments about Secretary Clinton, and posturing. THEN Bill goes off the reservation on his rescue mission. (I thought the deal was that Obama would be the Democrat presidential candidate, Hillary would get to be Secretary of State or some other influential job in the new administration,  and Bill would stay home and clip his coupons.)
If it had been one of Jesse Jackson's rescue missions with no obvious connections to US policy, just Jesse going off on his own, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But with such obvious ties to this administration and whatever foreign policy we have now, I don't see it as being good.Â
1. What did we give up to get these two out of jail?
2. If their last names were Schmidt and O'Malley rather than Ling and Lee would the Obama Administration have been so willing to do this?
3. What is the Obama Administration doing to get the GI held by Taliban freed?
4. While I was in the Army I spent a year on the Korean DMZ- rest assured that neither Bill Clinton nor Barak Obama saving face for Kim Jong Il will stop the North Koreans from coming south when they feel the time is right. The only deterrent to an invasion of South Korea is the US military which Obama loathes and is weakening.
5. Did this diplomatic triumph follow Rahm Emanuel's (I probably spelled it wrong) dictate of never wasting a good crisis?
I just wanted to stop by and see how all of you pathetic neo-cons are taking this news. Just as I suspected, all any of you can do is piss and moan about everything the democrats do. Thank god we have an intelligent man in the oval office. Kudos to President Obama.
5. So you were in on the negotiations and know what was agreed upon. Well thanks then for clearing that up, always nice to get the "facts" from someone who was on the scene.
I hate to inform you, but this administration would never be capable of deflecting a world destroying asteroid. In order to do that, you would actually have to take defensive measures (i.e. a missile of some sorts). We all know, Obama would start with apologizing to the asteroid and/or sternly addressing said asteroid. When that didn't work, he would say "What you need to do is remember, I inherited this world destroying asteroid from the previous administration!"
Must everything turn into Republicans vs. Democrats? What makes each party think they have all of the answers. We are in a total mess and we continue to attack one another rather than try to work toward a common platform. The government has made plenty of deals with other countries and powers at be behind our backs forever. I'm a happy this one resulted in bringing these women home to their families. I assure you that if any of you had a loved one in this situation you would want them back at any cost.
Until we start coming from a place of love and stop attacking one another we will never succeed and nothing will ever change.
Cowboy mentality? This is the ultimate cowboy act! Former president makes secret, solo mission to North Korea to rescue two journalists. How much more "cowboy" can you get (KC Sunshine)
No shooting, K.C! Actually, cowboy mentality refers to the saying, "Cowboys shoot first and ask questions afterwards." The writer was referring to rushing in with guns drawn, the approach of the Lone Ranger from Texas!
I hate to inform you, but this administration would never be capable of deflecting a world destroying asteroid. In order to do that, you would actually have to take defensive measures (i.e. a missile of some sorts). We all know, Obama would start with apologizing to the asteroid and/or sternly addressing said asteroid. When that didn't work, he would say "What you need to do is remember, I inherited this world destroying asteroid from the previous administration!"
Don't get mad, I just have Obama figured out.
Oh really? Try telling that to the three dead Somali pirates who were shot by SEALS on President Obama's orders. Did you forget that already?
John, was does Christ have to do with it? It is a great country with or without Christ. There are many great people on this planet that are not Christ followers.
Pure and simple; stay out of the fire and you won't get burnt! Messing-around on the border of an unfriendly nation is just asking for trouble and there is no one to blame but yourself.
this administration would never be capable of deflecting a world destroying asteroid.
Are you kidding of course they could. Haven't you heard, we will soon control the climate, end all health concerns, drive electric cars and who know what else they will fix! The answer my friend is blowing in the wind and the wind blows from Washington from the mouths of the politicians echoed by their followers all across the fruited (physically and mentally) plain. For God's sake is there anything more important than saving a journalist? Only saving us from ourselves!
Cowboy mentality? This is the ultimate cowboy act! Former president makes secret, solo mission to North Korea to rescue two journalists. How much more "cowboy" can you get?
Secret? how could clinton go to one of the most hostile nations on earth and keep it a secret?
Clearly you're bitching and moaning because the GOP didn't have their filthy greasy hands in freeing americans. that's because after 8 years of Bush there were no released americans except for Jessica Lynch who came forward and said the Iraqis treated her well. There were however, many account where mercenaries, servicemen and contractors were taken hostage and killed under Bush's "Neo-Con" policies in Iraq.
You forgot to mention the 650 thousand to a million civilians George wasted in Iraq and the million or so displaced, and Bins boys were not even there till we arrived, hell they hated Saddam as much as we did (or at least till he was of no use to us anymore,) I don't no about your job or bank account but I think most Americans can't afford your revival of George.
Regarding the 3 Somali pirates who got shot....please don't pin a medal on Mr. Obama for this one. The fact is that the ship's captain should have been dead.
Mr. Obama insisted that he be kept informed every step of the way and demanded that he be in on every decision...rather than leave matters up to career military experts who are indeed sufficiently trained to do the things that they must do. THEY are the experts... not some one-year US Senator / community organizer with a couple of weeks in the White House.
When that captain jumped off the pirates' little boat, those 3 pirates should have been dead within 2 seconds, since the Navy marksmen now had clear shots whlie the captain was quite safely in the drink. Boom, boom, boom...done deal. But no. Mr. Obama had to be kept in the loop and involved in the situation.
The pirates started shooting at the captain in the water and he gave up and went back to their boat. Do you get this...the captain would have been dead if only ONE of those flea-bitten little ragamuffin "pirates" could properly execute a less than 10 meter shot. The reason that captain is alive is because the pirates were lousy shots...period. The reason the captain should have been killed is because of General Obama's meddling.
If only one tick-infested, dirtball pirate had even gotten lucky or had actually known how to discharge his weapon...the captain would have been nothing but a corpse in the water due to his Commander in Chief's assinine meddling into a situation that was beyond his pay grade.
Do your homework and do not plant plaudits on those who do not deserve them...and in fact could have cost a good and heroic man his life due to some novice politician's unneeded meddling into something way beyond his capacity.
Tony-268769, Obama is commmander and chief of this country and have a right to be informed as to what is being done. He let's the service do their job but he knows on his shoulders blames lies. The president is the one we blame for everything and we all know this. You sound like an expert so why in the hell didn't you run for the presidence? As for being a novice, Obama is much better than your drunken President Bush and his Henchman Cheney. Oh sorry that's what you call experience and we are still at war because of your experience president. The president Obama had the captain rescued by Rear Admiral Michelle Howard and her crew( Black woman), they were heroes too. I want you to know all of us that serviced in combat for our country are heroes, Did you service????? Obama's capacities are great, his problem lies in the fact that pathetic people like you would rather see this country fail than succeed under his leadership. Bush ruined this country for eight long horrible years and all of you sat back and sucked it up, now for the last eights months you speak. Were you like Rip Van Winkle sleeping for 8 years??? Hell, I for one wish you had woke up sooner and voiced an opinion so maybe jobs, 401 K's, businesses and homes could have been saved. You really should go back to "SLEEP".
What was given up was a former US PResident doing the right thing to secure these ladies freedom.
They should not have ever been put into harms way, especially by a former Vice President, however President Clinton was willing to stand up and do what was necessary to gain these reporters their freedom.
Kudos to the Clinton's for willing to do what was necessary and boo at Al Gore for yet again proving he will sacrifice who he wants to try and prove his point.
"It speaks well of our country that when two American citizens are in harm's way, that so many people will just put things aside and just go to work to make sure that this has had a happy ending," by Al Gore.
It is obvious that Al Gore did not see the hate crawling on these vines.
Such a shame, these hate crawlers calling themselves Americans, so willing to leave other Americans in the hands of the enemy. And they call themselves patriots, working behalf of America. It sure sounds like the revival of the Nazis.
Rachel ... Let me know when you leave The City of Oz ... The guy is threatening South Korea because they won't continue to feed the starving north. He needs all his money for porn and nukes.
Real rocket scientist working for Al Gore ... And their mission was to find out if the starved people of a Marxist State were being treated well. Look what our public education has let loose.
Thanks for the laugh...try learning how to spell and write with at least some semblance of middle school proficiency before you worry about trying to deride the opinions or intelligence of others.
Former Fed Agent as one of the "right wingers" (who's an independent) you think you're gonna quote on the Sodier captured in Afghanistan,what I said was his actions and a break down in procedure led to his capture,a comment I'll stand by.I support all efforts to retrieve him but if he is recovered alive he has some explaining to do,as do his superiors.
Well since Kim Jong has never shown much in the way of common sense, I really doubt that is all he got out of it. My problem is that we don't know what was promised and probably never will and now we have to wait and see what Iran will want for the hikers.
My problem is that we don't know what was promised and probably never will
Well I can pretty much guarantee you we didn't give him a pass on building nuclear weapons. Why would anyone think that? It could've been something as simple as a life time supply of Twinkies and Ding Dongs and that would be something worth negotiating for.
Never said anything about giving him a pass on nukes, but since we have no idea you can't really guarantee anything. It could be something as minor as Twinkiesor anything else, that's the problem since we don't know we can't judge whether it was worth negotiating for. Since the deal is done there is no reason not to make it public, let's see a little of that transparency we were promised.
Actually if the President Obama Admninistration had given something up they never would have seperated themselves from what Clinton had done.
The Obama Administration would have seperated themselves early on, however once successfull would have taken all the credit.
This one was obviously all Hillary, using Bill to get the desired results and not giving up anything other than some pride for photograph's. I am pretty sure the CZAR OF NORTH KOREA was probably not informed.
I am willing to bet this was Al Gore (saving his employees who he endangered) and Bill/Hillary Clinton making the right choices to save them and using just a photo-op to do it.
If the current Administration had given up anything they would be adorning themselves with all the accolades.
Remember, even during the Somali pirate fiasco they stayed well out of the limelight and once successful they claimed their piece of the pie. If that had gone a different way, some soldiers/Sailors would be in jail.
This one is all Clinton/Gore and Kudos to Bill & Hillary and screw you Gore for getting them into the situation for your new Media Company.
Rachel, and you are as ignorant as most people in the West. In 1992 N. Korea agreed to mutual inspections of N and S Korea to prove there were no nuclear weapons in either N or S. Korea. As soon as we cancelled all large scale US/S. Korean Military Training for the year as a pre-condition demanded by N. Korea they immediately reneged on the aggreement. Then under Clinton they signed a guarantee that they would not develop nuclear weapons and then IMMEDIATELY began developing nuclear weapons. They promised Bush they would stop building nuclear weapons and then detonated two nuclear weapon tests. For the past two years we have been convincing S. Korea to take a harder line on N. Korea and finally a pro-US S. Korean President was elected and we (US, Japan and S. Korea) were presenting a unified front to attempt to pressure N. Korea to STOP building nuclear weapons. NOW, just because two dumbass 'self-proclaimed' journalists decided to sneak into N. Korea to film starving children and hope to produce it on American TV and then got caught our diplomacy program toward N. Korea is in shambles because Clinton has gone over there and kissed Kim Jong Il's ass. We have humiliated and undermined S. Korea and Japan with this crap. So Thank you very much you two stupid Asian American bit--s and your families for screwing the pooch and then begging for US Assistance to get those women out of jail.
I do not and did not like GW Bush, I believe as a US citizen, that is my right...and I do believe that my education in PoliSci aided me in that, thank you, very much!
BTW-I notice on other NV stories you attack the "Republicans and other that do not believe as you, are you an equal opportunity troller?? Just curious....
RACHEL1-933I am 952 I attack those whom are anti-American, I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I am AMERICAN. I put my country first, not last. For without my country I would be just like those whom struggle to find a home. For you see I am an AMERICAN. I do not put my ethnicity before my country. The color of my skin does not matter, I bleed red, white and blue. I am an AMERICAN first. I live in AMERICA, I will defend it, and give my life for her! I understand what she gives to ME!
Most do not understand what they get, they are consumed by what they are given. There is a difference. At least I understand the difference. How about you?
Dwater, if you had your head somewhere except where the sun dont shine you would have read the release negotiations were already completed and all that was left to do was to pick up the girls. As smart as you are about international relations I see a bright future ahead for you starting with the election to the office of mayor for your trailer court. Make sure erverybody has their tie downs snugged up. The stormy season is a long way from over.
nipdoc, you want to turn them into our ally? How do you do that? Give them millions of our money, Done that. They will have to borrow more money just to reprint the books they brainwash the kids in school. How America is an evil imperialist nation. They hate us. Just like Iran. Crazy leaders don't change. You cant trust them. Our intentions will be good, while they have said one thing and then done another. I know a way to make them our ally, just send Obama over there and he can apologize for America again. He is good at that.
Bush would have started yet another war. If your child ate candy and you wanted to teach them a lesson would you put them in a closet for a year? Just thinking how easy it is to judge others actions when we are on the side lines safe and sound.
Ol Glen, God they let you vote too?? Release negotiations were completed...only needed to go pick them up?? So guess who they insisted come over, kiss their kimchee garlic N. Korean asses on world media TV and pick the girls up?! Yep....Ol Bill, who had nothing else on his dayplanner for this week. As I said, Ol Glen Buckwheat, we screwed our allies and made fools of ourselves AGAIN over a couple of idiot Americans going where they KNEW they were going to get in trouble and then having the audacity to plead for official US intervention. I guess I can put on a white sheet and wander into S. Central LA, set fire to a cross and then scream for US government help when I start to get my ass shot. And oh yes, Ol Glen Moonbeam, I have a single wide trailer all set aside for you, your goldfish named Gumdrop and your dog named Nutjob.
Nancy for O, candy vs nukes give me a break. They are not our kids, they are our enemies, It is their choice to be our enemy. Bush didn't start another war with NKorea for the eight years he was in office, so you really cant say that and be believed.
Dwater: I take it from your posts that you think we should've just let them stay in N. Korea and face whatever consequences Kim Jong had waiting for them? But yet that's embarrassing too because that shows we don't have the resolve to do anything about it. Or, perhaps, your preferred method would've been a strike force of bombers and cruise missiles and a show of American military muscle and hope that in the after math that followed anyone would still be alive to rescue? I would not at all be surprised that N. Korea didn't make the first move on this and indicated they'd be willing to release the reporters if the US would provide a way for it to happen. The main thing is that the girls are home but it appears your more concerned with how tough we look than in saving lives. I think your priorities are backwards.
Rachel, you cannot reason with those who are unreasonable.
I think that KMartin doth protest too, too much. Most vets I know don't feel the need to prove what they have already proven, that being that they love their country. They also know that civilians love their country too.
I am a liberal and guess what, I'm a vet as well. What a shock that must be to the rightys. However I don't feel the need to shout it to the rooftops.
Those on the right who scream that they are more patriotic than anyone on the left possibly could be must be unaware of that many on the left are vets.
I don't think I've ever mentioned it before, but I am sick and tired of this "were more patriotic than you BS." They are not, they are just louder.
Believe me, draft dodger Bill knew the outcome before he left home! It was staged by odumbo to show how ineffective the hilderbeast is. He used Bill's ego to upstage his wife. Odumbo doesn't want billary around in 2012 to threaten him! Osham-wow hasn't stopped campaigning yet. That is all he knows and it shows!
Salem ,It's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. But you liberals only believe Freedom of Speech is only what you say ,Think,and Write. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMAZING
The way this thread was going I thought it needed to lighten up!! All the haters who only see things from their side. If you liked the comment, you're welcome, if you didn't, f**k you if you can't take a joke!!! And yes my mother was proud, right up until I was five when she died!!! So keep your mother jokes to yourself, you must have low self esteem and a host of other disorders to go that route!!
First let me correct your statement about "an army of other people's children" should read "an army of VOLUNTEERS".
Next, most Republicans (I believe you chose the word "neocon") know not all conflicts are handled with war. Unfortunately, two wars were started with Bush. One all but finished under him (Iraq) and the other apparantly only got started. By the way, what is the body count in Afganistan since Obama got into office? You wouldn't know because the media isn't sharing that bit of information. God forbid something tarnish Obama's record.
Yeah Drew, and "family values" guys Vitter and Ensign and the rest of them said the same thing. Another fine, marginalizing, idiotic comment from the fringes.
July was the deadliest month for American soldiers in Afghanistan since day one. The articles in the news reporting this were quite small, to say the least.
Good to get these women out of NK. The negative commenters here are showing some degree of ignorance. It's sad to see. But, alas, it is the way of the right.
You are so right about the right. Only Republicans/conservatives with their disconnect from reality and their paranoid us-against-the-world mentality would think this is a bad thing. Once again the right shows that they have nothing positive to contribute to any discussion.
Dave--why would you care about 2 aggressive Al Gore plants to try and win some points for his "global warming" money grabbing campaign? Those 2 women risked their lives with no thought for their kids and families, knowingly, to make a name for themselves. Millions of Americans lives are now in jeopardy as rouge countries know they can "negotiate" with Obama. You have been had.
You are absoutley right! They had absolutely no business there and now we forget how we were threatened on July 4th. I am sure Obama wanted the girls back along with a set of plans on how to successfully become a full fledged dictator. He is damn sure trying hard to become one with this insane health care plan. What the hell is he doing at the RV plant again. This bozo knows nothing about leading; he only knows about spending and traveling. We have never had a president who is "on the road again" as much as this idiot is. You certainly don't see the night oil burning in the WH since he took office; because he doesn't know how the hell to stay home and personally I am getting damn sick of hearing and seeing his mug on tv all the time. One thing about the liberals they don't care how much like idiots they look like as long as they get air time. As far as NK; they did not do this for a photo op; it will be interesting to find out what was given to NK for their release. Did Obama only work on this since these girls worked for Gore? Probably, I sure haven't heard anything from him on the 3 that Iran have. Anyone that goes near these countries and are captured should not be heros; but labeled as idiots.
Janey - they were looking for a bigger story than global warming. In their search for the big scoop, they knew how close to or over the border they were. Would an ordinary person who did not work for Gore or have the media power of NBC/CNN ( courtesy of sister Lisa) have been able to get Clinton show up to get them out? Will Bill be willing to go to Iran for a visit in exchange for the non celebrety wanna be's being held now? Have you heard anything recently about those 3 in comparison to the coverage that Ling and her friend got when they were held. Watch for their book and film on their experience. They did get a scoop after all.
many journalists have crossed borders illegally and been in countries where Americans are disliked, ever since international journalism began. nothing has changed.
those women were doing a story on the trafficking of N. Korean women in China.
I wouldn't doubt if the Chinese posing as Koreans, captured and handed them over to N. Korea leaders.
The same right wing that makes claim to superior morality always has more problems with immorality in their circles and always seem to have their minds in the gutter.
Will you WackJobs out there PLEASE quit telling the TRUTH about BILL THE RAPIST CLINTON, The LIBERALS Don't like it. They only Like what THEY have to say about Bush. It's called Freedom of THEIR Speech.
wackjobs, would be those of you that voted this idiot into the WH...excuse me that would have been with the help of the Unions, Acorn & GE via the MSM. Our country is in more debt than it has ever been due to this wackjob. No program has worked that he engineered, including his cash for junkers. He doesn't have a clue what the hell he is doing. All Americans must cut back on expenditures; but not Obama....he will travel the U.S. and the world, will spend the taxpayer money like a drunken sailor, and is now in Indiana giving more billions to engineer his electric vehicles that will travel l00 miles. WTF, people are having a hard time putting food on their tables and this bozo is worried about the manufacturing of electric automobiles. What a frickin idiot he is! By the way I am an Independent; not a Repub....this idiot's numbers are going down and they will continue to do so...people are waking up to the fact that he is clueless!!!!
Is it just me but is the site of Slick Willie standing at the door of his private plane waiting on 2 young Asian ladies to walk inside not the funniest thing we have seen in while? Letterman and Conan should have a field day with this one.
nipdoc....you have got to be kidding me? You really think that Slick Willie did this all by himself? Obama wrote the check....all the slickmesiter did was deliver it. Great statesmanship my butt. I hope you are being sarcastic......it was a very sad day in American history to bow down to a rogue nation intent on destroying us. Slick Willie with 2 young asian girls....just call him Quagmire.
The various connections the Bush family had with Osama Bin Laden?
I dont know how many ways the liberals will end up selling us out, but if they ever need inspiration, they can just take a peek at the ways the conservatives have already done it.
Why does MSNBC prevent any open discussion on certain hand-selected news articles that they report?????
An example that I'm referring to is their home page article entitled...
"OBAMA TO UNVEIL 2.4 BILLION "GREEN" GRANTS"
Their intent is obvious and only proves that they will not permit any negative publicity or disapproving comments directed toward Obama. MSNBC continually tries to shield Obama from receiving ANY negative press... or unsatisfactory comments from the American public.
It's their way of "reporting", but censoring at the same time.... all to influence public opinion.
Truth & Honesty...I agree. There are no comments on this so called Elkhart project allowed because they know it would get plastered horribly. $2 Billion....where is the printing press for this money? This guy is absolutely insane. This buffoon is obsessed with one town and one industry.
Did you miss the little icon that has the tiny Newsvine logo? Clicking on it lets you seed/ share and discuss the article on Newsvine?
It is not some big liberal conspiracy....... that is unless by not having the "discuss" word at the bottom of the page that makes it too hard for people who have their tin foil wrapped too tight around their noggins. Then yes, it might just be that MSNBC is in league with dark forces on the left.
What would be the reason for MSNBC to "conveniently" hide the normal "discuss" option in a much harder-to-find, more discreet location....
Especially when it comes to discussing "hot topic" articles that could potentially place Barak Obama in a negative light and show that America DOES NOT approve of what he is doing...
The bottom line... it's MSNBC'S attempt at "selective" censorship.
Truth & Honesty: You have got to be kidding. There are plenty examples of articles on MNSBC where by far the majority of the comments in the news vine forums are negative comments and rants against Obama. The President can do nothing right for the right. There is nothing he has done or ever will do that will find favor with the right I can almost guarantee it. As btco already noted, seed the article in your newsvine account and start bashing.
Because Truth, MSNBC is owned by GE who stands to gain billions if the cap and trade and health care goes thru. It is Obama's pay back for getting him elected. Acorn also stands to gain with both of these bills passing, the most corrupt organization which is funded very well by the Dems. He is the most corrupt man to ever hold the office of President. I am getting my popcorn ready; because sooner or later this will all come out. My prayer every night is those idiots that voted for Obama sit out the next presidential election because they do not have enough sense to research people running for office. They got it terribly wrong when they voted for an idiot that seals his records from the American public, has absolutely no experience in running anything and can't say two words without screwing up without his teleprompter. Please, no vote for these idiots the next time. I am a registered independent, not a republican so don't even go there!
Patriot - Spoken like a true conspiracy loving wing nut. You may be independent, but your thoughts expressed here are nothing but extreme right wing garbage.
They got it terribly wrong when they voted for an idiot that seals his records from the American public, has absolutely no experience in running anything and can't say two words without screwing up
Gee - I believe he's talking about George W. Bush. Patriot, are you a stand up comedian? You should be. That's funny.
For crying out loud...have you READ the posts on this vine? If MSNBC didn't want anybody to make any negative comments about President Obama, they'd have to shut down every discussion there is, because wingnuts can turn a story that has absolutely nothing to do with politics into an Obama hatefest.
The bottom line... it's MSNBC'S attempt at "selective" censorship
Time to give it up, then. Move on to reading Foreign Affairs, The Economist, Wilson Quarterly, or whatever. Ten inches of computer screen 'news' is not information. It is not even conspiracy. It's only a way to present ads.
Ad Hominom statements are usually cheap shots that add little to debate don't you think? We are capable of analysis rather than trading meaningless republican code words masquerading as ad hominom "comments". Fairness is a value not championed by the right anyway.
I heard that when they saw Bubba come to get them , they said, "we'll take our chances with these Korean guys". Obama once again gives validity to a 2-bit dictator, but then again, he is one too.
It make us look bad having to send a former president to negotiate a release of two Americans. Like going there with our tail between our legs. But I am sure it will be on Oprah, MSNBC, CNN, Larry King for months to come. I am not sure how Obama will handle it. On the one hand it is a diversion away from his failures (1 trillion in debt economy in the first six months and the health rationing take over). But Obama likes to be the one in the spotlight. Don't get me wrong, I am sure glad these girls whom I have prayed for a safe return home are home. Just curious how this gets played. I do see that they were well fed. A lot more I am sure than the starving kids photo on this home page.
It make us look bad having to send a former president to negotiate a release of two Americans
Nah. It just depends on who the "former president" is. Had it been either of the Bushes, all these complainers would be singing a much different tune. I'm certain this is a tough pill to swallow for conservatives. Anything either of the Clintons do that turns out well is condemned by our own home grown critics that are taking on tendencies that approach neo-Nazism as their desperation increases. I wonder if they have abandoned or just chosen to forget their own proclamation of just a few years back ~ ~ "if you don't like what is happening in America, get out!!" Now when the political tables are turned, criticism and denunciation are deemed patriotic gestures.
Jim....It was my opinion that it made us look bad having to go and get them, in turn giving that piece of crap Kim credibility. I am very pleased my prayers were answered that they are safe. But like always you people on the left are confused. Could you tell me why Obama has 42 Czars?, many of who are socialist/communists. Why Obama and the Clinton's are in line with socialism? Because they are socialists. America is not a communist country. What exactly don't you understand?
Jim--thank God Former President Bush did not negotiate with rouge nations or terrorists. I hope we are not starting to see a new "axis of evil" take over with Obama in charge.
Bush never negotiated because he lacked the brains, b**ls and drive to do so! It was much easier for him to run the presidency like yet one more entitlement in his life, declaring "Axis of Evil", "bring 'em on", and then sitting on his a** in Crawford for most of his tenure, like he chose to do when he was briefed about Al Q's intention to strike in the US one month before it happened.
Could you tell me why Obama has 42 Czars?, many of who are socialist/communists. Why Obama and the Clinton's are in line with socialism? Because they are socialists. America is not a communist country.
Ex-Lib: Ever hear of a Presidential cabinet? For the President to have advisors on key policy issues or programs that the government is under taking is nothing sinister or frightening. It's how he maintains control of information and make sure that things are being managed efficiently. You cannot manage effectively and have anything succeed if you do not have some means of monitoring the progress. That is all the czars are doing as far as I can tell. Labeling people as socialists and communists is pointless. By the way, socialism is NOT communism.
Thanks td3k. So good to hear someone sane post responses to these right-wing neo somethings. Sad to say , you and I are wasting our breath (keystrokes in this case) :>) because they are not mentally competent to comprehend. Thank goodness we have the ballot box which the Republicans were not able to control this time ( I'm thinking Florida in the 2000 election. This time the voice of reason spoke in our country on November 2008 the Repug agenda was thoroughly defeated.
Socialism and Communism are economic systems, not forms of goverment. I believe a nation is socialist when the govt controls more than 50% of the businesses. In a communist nation, the govt controls all business.
So when the US government controls Amtrack, GM, etc, etc , and is going for healthcare, I believe the socialist accusations have merit.
I really don't have a problem if a crackball, murderous tyrant like Kim Jong Il despises a former president like Mr. Bush and would never have turned these girls over to him. Perhaps it's because these muddleheaded terrorists and wannabe dictators simply feared folks like Bush, Ronald Reagan, etc.
I do remember a certain Libyan dictator calming down quite a bit after President Reagan zipped a rocket onto his daughter's head...and that nutball didn't cause too many problems since. Years later, would Libya have welcomed Reagan in to finalize the release of a couple of Americans...probably not.
I wonder if a place like Rwanda would welcome Mr. Clinton in to secure the release of a couple of Americans like those two young "reporters" in North Korea. Or...would somebody remind them that while a half million Rwandans were beating hacked to pieces with machetes, the former president was busy huddling up with a young staffer in the little bathroom inside the Oval office ???
Tony, you just proved the point "us libs" are making. you think the only way to solve a problem is to just blow $hit up. well talking seemed to work on this one...and when Jessie Jackson went to syria and got those guys out without a shot being fired, hmmmm that worked too. and the pirate situation......instead of just shooting and finding out who survived later.....Obama timed it waited till the time was right. and the guy we went to get lived. you see the pattern, if you're gonna do something in the interest of America make sure that no Americans get killed
It doesn't take a military expert to understand that those marksmen had every intention to shoot all 3 pirates. The time to do that was when the Captain of the freighter jumped into the water....and he was fired upon by the pirates $ just plain lucky they missed...he gave up and swam back to them. When he was in the water "the time was right". Obama should have left that confrontation to the experts. The captain was lucky he did not get shot when he dove into the sea. This cannot really be difficult to comprehend, can it ????
No...it is not true that "the only way to solve a problem is to just blow $hit up" ( your words ). But make no mistake...these pirates WERE going to all be shot it the head by Navy marksmen...period. And I'm sure any of those marksmen and their commander would tell you that the Captain of the freighter was absolutely put into harm's way because of Mr. Obama's interference. You say that " if you're gonna do something...make sure that no Americans get killed ". EXACTLY RIGHT.
The only simple reason that American Captain of the freighter did not get killed was because the pirates were lousy shots. Period.
I want to see the cancelled check as to how much we paid them....AND, I want to know how much it cost for Clinton to go there and if the American taxpayer paid for it.
While the White House emphasized the private nature of Clinton's trip...
So much for America's stance on not negotiating with terrorists. Is there anything this administration won't do to further defile America? Those women knew the risk...they took it and got caught. They should have paid the price and we should not have gone to rescue them. Period. End of story. Now...the hikers in Iran are next? How much will Obama pay for them? It will never end.
While I am glad to see that the two ladies are now freed, I have to agree with your post. If you know you have no business being in an anti-american country then why go? These two ladies should have their passport revoked. Having said that, kudos to Bill Clinton and the administration effort.
Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things that we paid, say, $50k in expenses for Clinton to fly over and back? Or are we missing the forest for the trees?
Defile the US? Negotiating with terrorists? Get a grip on reality. My guess is that we provided an opening to begin talking again (yeah, I know it's produced nothing in the past, but it's better than not talking) and we also gained some intelligence that only a personal visit with that nutcake (not Clinton) could provide.
All in all, nothing negative from his trip and it's certainly a positive to get them released.
btco--those 2 women are not innocent little dogs--they are tough, aggressive journalists who knew exactly what they were doing and the risks to their families and all Americans--you have been had.
Steve I have to strongly disagree with your post.What President Clinton did was a good thing.I bet he pulls the honeys out of the club,too!Seriously when 2 of our citizens are held by a totalitarian regime headed by an unstable (and possibly gravely ill) dictator the end result is what counts.Thank God these women have been reunited with their families!
I am a right-winger and I got goosebumps and had tears of joy in my eyes when I found out the journalists were going home to their families. It gave me the same sweet feeling I had when Jessie Jackson freed those white fighter pilots--hope for mankind. God bless you Bill Clinton.
Sounds like you also have a brain, which is refreshing! Please help me understand the other Self-procliamed right wingers. Can these people really be that out of touch with reality. Can the glass ALWAYS be half empty? It must truly be miserable being stuck in those bodies! Then again, as the saying goes (MISERY LOVES COMPANY). You sound more like a true concervatve. Right wingers come off as irrational. You do not fit that bill. Believe me, there is nothing wrong with being conservative; right wing neocons, well we all are suffering from their legacy. God bless you!!!
I see this as a victory for everyone involved: the reporters, their families, the Clintons, the President, the US and even NK. Everyone seems to have won something positive from this incredible act of diplomacy. Nobody needs to die or have weapons fired before you can feel good about your country.
AmericaBev----you I totally respect and admire. Thank you for shedding politics for a moment to give credit where credit is due. I lean heavily to the left side but if all conservatives were more fair-minded like you, this would be a better country. I occasionally agree with some extreme right-wing columnists, rarely, but sometimes and when I do I admit it.
Sounds like you also have a brain, which is refreshing! Please help me understand the other Self-procliamed right wingers. Can these people really be that out of touch with reality. Can the glass ALWAYS be half empty?
No...most of the time it's completely empty!
But yeah...it's nice to hear a self-professed "right winger" actually seeing something positive that was done by a Democrat. Now if they could just produce that Kenyan birth certificate...and not a forgery...
What next Bill, you going to ask Obama to pardon the THOUSANDS of women in OUR prisons who are convicted felons? Probably not, they are not members of the fifth estate working for your former VP....they are just mothers, daughters, friends and wifes of normal Americans.
What a crock....one has to wonder what the real payback is for him going there to free these two CONVICTED crimianls.
willie, so you're North Korean ? Amazing. Fortunately, MOST Americans see this as good news, Bill Clinton doing a job any noble and decent man should do - the Right Thing. This is the REAL "Mission Accomplished". America looks good again. And a handful of noisy whiny wingnuts are not gonna take this moment away from it. And if my tax dollars went to any of this, it's money well spent.
Why is it good news that these two convicted journalists got freed? Why don't we close all our prisons and let all our convicted crimals free? To heck with laws, anyone with influence gets a free get out jail card anytime they want. What EXACTLY makes these two women special?
They are special because THEY ARE AMERICANS DOING THEIR JOB. willie, it's clear your IQ can be counted on your right hand. You wouldn't know what laws were regarding journalism if it bit your a$$. Here's a site for all you disagreeing nut jobs.
you people are extremely naive--those 2 knew exactly what they were doing when Gore sent them into NK. they put thousands of Americans at risk including their own families-we are now known as a kicking ground for rouge nations to use and abuse.
you people still seem to be stuck on that "you're either with us or against us" mentality...grow up and for God's sake turn off your radio and take a deep breath and make yourselves a sandwich!
What a crock....one has to wonder what the real payback is for him going there to free these two CONVICTED crimianls.
Ah, the true confusion of the right wing! From one side of their mouths they call Kim Jong Il every name in the book, and from the other side they call Lee and Ling "CONVICTED crimianls (sic)" as if they had all the respect in the world for the North Korean system of justice. Speaking of "crocks"!
You can't have it both ways! You can't manipulate a situation to advance your own pathetic agenda by saying one thing, then doing a complete about face midstream! I mean, come on, get a grip! Step away from Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck! They've obviously done more damage to your collective thought processes than smoking serious drugs!
"Still, the mission is seen as the Obama administration letting Kim Jong Il save face by freeing the reporters. The payoff — maybe not right away — is likely to be renewed dialogue with Pyongyang about its nuclear weapons program."
Are they never going to learn? Look, i'm happy that those 2 journalists are released, good for them, but this is NOT how diplomacy should work! North Korea will NOT change their minds about their program. That has become abundantly clear. Trading 2 ladies at the cost of risking the lives of millions is pure idiocy!
Have you received the call yet? Since you have all the right answers I am sure the administration has you in there sights to be the next...
They should have left them there. Maybe they would have learned something and shown other idiots (like the ones in Iran) that if you play, you will pay!
Play??
Two were working and most probably kidnapped along the border.
The other three were probably kidnapped to prove how much the U.S. was involved in their "election"!
Please!!!
Good to see them released, but the government need to start telling the idiot news organizations and reporters, that if you are where you are not supposed to be, live with the consequences. You can't tell me that Clinton did this on his own. He had the o.k. to give North Korea something. obama needs something to distract from his poor performance. The one question left is, what did we give up? There is no way that Clinton asks for their release and all of a sudden they are released. It is not North Korea's way.
KMartin: i guess those long-range missile tests on July 4th can just be neglected, right? Or how about the threat to attack the US ships near their shores?
And what prevents North Korea to pick up a few more Americans and throw them in jail without a fair trial? Are they going to fly over again and make a few more concessions, likely on their nuclear program? But yeah, by all means, give the North Koreans some more time.
"The mission is seen as the Obama administration letting Kim Jong Il save face". I bet Kim Jong Il is simply laughing his butt off right now.
I love the excuse..."I'm glad to have them released" on to quickly follow with negativity and bashing.
Ahh, the American way.
Who was it that said "American is a nation of whiners" ?
A republican? Hmpfh, he's right
Hey Tom drop dead
Fed
You really believe that's all NK will get out of this is an apology and a photo op? They have shown themselves to be much better negotiators then that.
I wonder what agreements took place behind the scenes.?
I see that the Republicans/Conservatives are already trying to spin this release into some sort of "Obama's kissing North Korean ass" lie-fest. All you Republican idiots are whining about how 2 American lives aren't worth "being laughed at" by the world -- Well, I have news for you, morons: The world has been laughing at us ever since Bush stole his first presidency. President DUHb-ya was a freakin' joke to the entire planet, and you'd better be damn grateful that now we have a man in the White House who doesn't think the way to settle every problem is to swagger around and try to prove that he has bigger weapons than his daddy did. We're lucky that we weren't blown off the map while Bush was in the WH. It's pretty astounding that we weren't, considering how he made us the most hated nation ever.
I know that you Republicans/Conservatives are frightened by people who have the ability to think, but my god, don't you people have anything positive to contribute to our society, or are you still so busy pouting about your complete rout in the last elections that you can't see your way clear to do anything but whine these days? IT'S BEEN 9 MONTHS -- GET OVER IT, BRING SOMETHING GOOD TO THE NATIONAL TABLE, AND MOVE ON!!!!!!!
Former Fed Agent: "How does diplomacy 'should work'?"
Well, i would define diplomacy as the art of negotiation between representatives of countries (or other institutions or even individuals) with the aim to improve economic, political, social, military (and many other categories) situations, both for the parties involved and the community as a whole.
Providing concessions to North-Korea, most likely related to their nuclear program, does not exactly fall within that definition, especially considering their latest military provocations.
Rae-
Pay no mind to the delusional crowd. All they're good at is lying and everyone knows they're full of BS. Why do you think they're party is full of nutty religious ideologues and desperate, corrupt suits clinging to political life. They're a joke. At this point, I invite them to spin any tale they'd like. That 'birther' gig went really sweet.
I love watching these nutty folk destroy themselves.
Wow! Probably.
Hey Mister Dudley do-dumb! Let's get your loved ones trapped in a situation you so badly want to save them from and we'll say the same thing to you: "let them stay there." How kind and compassionate, how caring....NOT!
Besmart
You know if take out the word religous, you descrided the democrats to perfection. Never seen a group so desperate for anything they can claim as a win.
I honestly think they should pay for their stupidity by reimbursing the taxpayers for the money spent on this mission. Only a complete dumba$$, of all the places in the world, would travel close to the NK border or the Iranian one. You know what, as a matter of fact i need a well deserved vacation. Italy, perhaps? Or maybe France or the Pacific. Ooh, i know where. Pakistan's swat valley close to the Afghan border. I heard is very nice this time of year and they are very friendly to Americans. This is going to be the best vacation ever.
Former Fed Agent: "Providing an apology to North Korea in exchange for the lives of 2 American citizens falls exactly within that definition, especially considering the alternative: They rotting in jail for 12 years!"
You do not honestly believe that they were released in exchange for just an apology, do you?
Thank you President Clinton for showing great diplomacy to finish the job and bring these girls home. I know this man was flawed liked all politicians well humans really, and yes he made mistakes but for my money this was the last person that was worthy of holding the title President of the United States.
It is amazing how much clout this man still has. Only time will tell if there was indeed something given up for the release of these girls. After all it is politics and we all know that is a dirty game rather it is a republican or a democrat throwing the ball.
I just watched the homecoming on TV. Laura Ling and Euna Lee were told they were going to a meeting and feared the worst. When they got to the meeting - who did they see ?
PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON
If you don't think that Hillary had something to do with this, you are a fool.
And once again the Clintons prove to AMERICANS that they are the bomb.
And who are the losers who did not vote for Hillary?
They finally woke up and smelled the Obama coffee and are regretting it.
In regards to "Rachel, el", comment
"Two were working and most probably kidnapped along the border.
The other three were probably kidnapped..."
There are a whole bunch of "probablys" in there. Way too many for me. Instead of looking at this on an emotional level, please looks at the facts......something bleeding heard democratic liberals have a problem doing....we could discuss he facts and negative fallout of these two idiot women but it wouldn't do any good with your type.
Gosh, North Korea is living the dream, government health care, government housing, government indoctrination, public transportation, government appliances, government food farming. Why would these women want to leave this paradise of government programs? Why don't the great thinkers here go there and sample the cornucopia of benefits under the umbrella of the benevolent leadership of a powerful government?
Welcome back ladies, glad to see your still phsyically intact.
Bubba surplanted both useless Hillary and the balding Algore in order to make this trip, I can imagine that the useless syndrome has crept into the latters line of thinking and who could imaging a pack of embellishing prognosticators by birth, would be related by incident. Bubba was convinced the mission was called "Rescue in Poontang" that could be attributed to his age and hearing. I said could be, but unlikely.
The Algore ladies are wondering what the heck made them think that just because they and their crowd leaned toward communism, that they would just skip over the border and gleefully announce their intent to interview the ordinary N. Korean commie but were rudely awakened to the fact that lying, torture and killing were a major part of how real communism really works and that border control was a serious matter. Unlike the U.S. the N. Koreans take their sovereingty seriously.
So now we are all wondering, just how much did this esacape by idiots from a seriously land of Ill-ness, of frivolus lib persuasion cost this country? Unfortunately we are going to find out.
""LIbs love to tell you all about what they don't know and expect you to listen as though each word spoken was written in stone".....excerpt from the Happy Hippie handbook.
Rae thanks I was going to post but you said it all for me. I agree with you 100%.I am starting to like Kim Jong ill more than the repugs in this country who contribute nothing and run there mouths all the time.Thanks again Rae.
I'm sure had W still been in power, that you wouldn't have to complain about a President like Barack Obama who understands diplomacy is give and take. Nope, if GW was still in power the reporters would be there til hell froze over for all he cared. Only right wing idiots could complain at all about an administration who at least offers hope of being able to talk to repressive nations. What is your answer----just bomb them into oblivion? We know from sad experience that does not work.
The back story will come out slowly but you can be sure that bclinton would not have set foot on the plane UNLESS the deal was done!
Your Tapper is a fool to imply that the the White house was not involved and the underhanded slam of the relationship between the clintons and Obama..Tapper needs to be reassigned to New Jersey!
Iran is a problem---this will set up a precedent for the runt to try to exploit..Best it be kept separate!
Karen in LA: The "Obama coffee" is brewed with the finest beans given to him by the Clintons. Obama has the good sense to utilize both Bill and Hillary in his administration for good and I think that says a lot about Obama and his leadership. Maybe you're still upset that Hillary lost out to Obama, she was my first choice too. But in any event, the two share the same policy ideals and goals with only very minor exceptions as best as I can tell.
So let me get this straight Rae...Because they Reps lost they get to have no say or complaint?? Wow...Seems that didn't stop you Dems for the last 8 years....And you all used the excuse that you had the right because you are Americans and it wasn't un-maerican to complain....And now look at you...
God will the hypocrisy ever end??
I haven't really followed this story much, but now that I've read up on it...a question:
How big of an idiot is Mr. Al Gore for sending these very young ladies into a nutball country like North America ??? I did not know that they worked for some loonie news organization run by Mr. Gore...what in God's name was he thinking ??? They are barely out of their teens. Would any of the media organizations have criticized him had those two girls gotten themselves killed in a country where that quite possibly could have happened ???
I am very happy about the two women being released. I am extremely proud of President Clinton doing this and ensuring they safe release of these girls.
I am proud President Obama has let it be known this was the effort of Al Gore and President Clinton.
HOWEVER, Al Gore is the reason any of this happened and he should not be praised in any way shape or manner. The limelight and every accolade belongs to the Clinton's.
Gore should be brought up on charges for allowing two of HIS employee's into a situation that did not need to happen.
Bill was the right man for the job. He had good relations with N.K while in office and they liked him. Then Bush came in and screwed it all up by taking away the aid we were giving them. Sometimes you need to "bribe" a country into being good and that is what Bill did. I sure do miss Bill, to me, and I am only 50, he was great. Sure he had his flaws but they were on personal matter. Our country was doing great and we had money in the bank.
WOW!!! Talk about grandstanding.. Do any of you actually think that Clinton went over there and in 1 day got this done? This deal was already done, days ago. Clinton's still the same POS he was back in the day when he called himself president. Same as the clown we have now running the country into the ground.
People that actually believe clinton did this really need to think about it......idiots!!!
I'll say it again -- Two innocent Americans are home safely, not a shot was fired, and we don't look like a bunch of ignorant cowboys ready to go nuclear over every single political development that goes against us. We look like reasonable, intelligent people who understand that we are not the only country on the planet. This is an epic win for the U.S, and it was achieved by diplomacy -- a sadly lacking necessity in a Republican administration. Look up the definition of that word, Conservatives -- you will not find the phrase, "Go to war over everything."
Last night the radio and TV was abuzz about the release of these two young woman. You had your 'so-called' experts and critics with their positions. Look people, Clinton got these 2 freed, saved them from 12 years of prison and hard labor. This doesnt change anything with or about Korea in my opinion, so quit trying to make more out of it than what is necessary. One thing about America...everyone is a critic and everyone is an expert. No wonder why we cant unite and pull our heads out of our a$$e$ to make this country great again.
The missile tests were a result of the Bush we're not going to talk to you policy. It does't work to just ignore a problem and hope it will go away, the cornerstone of Bush foriegn policy.
FORMER FED AGENT you right once again.
It seems that the right reacts to the truth like vampires react to crosses.
Yeah, poor guys, they're desperate, they only won the last elections! The GOP is ecstatic, they lost!! I can see why!
demitrix & Joe...
According to the news reports on this matter, a deal to get these girls home has been in the works for quite some time. Mr. Clinton did not simply swoop in and make this happen.
And as for "every accolade belongs to THE Clintons".....ole Hilary was derided and just about booted out of the country...after being clearly ( and hilariously ) insulted by North Korea's leaders.
We should have sent Bush and Cheney instead... difference is they could stay there. I know, I know... it wouldn't be an even trade... but it would take NK a while to realize they'd been duped.
literally a WILD CARD worked on this instance, B. Clinton..Cheers to the release of the journalists !!..the act of compassion was deeply appreciated, N.K..more than I can say about the financial/ corporate system here..no pulse, just cold calculated economic misery here..
When will Americans ever learn. Stay the hell away from any borders that are at odds with the American government. NOW we have three more , "Hikers" that staggered too near the Iranian border. It will put the American government in a very weak position to make some kind of gift or concession to Iran. With all the areas on this globe to , "Hike" why for gosh sakes do the idiots spend their time so close to the Iranian border? It was, "Pretty scenery", there they say. There are alot of other pretty places in this world, they should be going to those. I think the American government should put out a bulletin stating that if you as American civilians walk too close to a Rogue government's borders.....YOU WILL HAVE TO DO YOUR OWN NEGOTIATIONS to be released from their prisons. And good luck to you.
Journalists? Really? At least they are home safe. Get ready for their media blitz/15 mins of fame. We'll hear their story over and over only soon to be forgotten. Could we at least revoke their passports for a while?
Isn't it funny how george W should be the one on emmisary trips on behalf of the USA, but instead the administration would rather deal with Clinton and Gore.
You know the Obama administration had no choice, but to use Bill because George W had squandered all worldwide diplomacy offered to him after 9-11 and there was nobody left to trust in the GOP after the last 8 years of miserable failure.
LOL!
Yep, we provided concessions. We undoubtedly gave them all our nuclear information, and probably threw in a few long range missiles with 100 megaton warheads on them for good measure. We improved their "economic, political, social, military (and many other categories) situation". We obviously gave them hundreds of billions of dollars, provided every citizen with steak and lobster dinners every evening for the next ten years, and built five bedroom, two bath houses for them as well. All in exchange for two journalists.
And I'm the King of Belgium.
Get real! There is no way -- none, zero, nada -- we gave them anything to do with theirs or anybody else's nuclear program! No money exchanged hands, no goods were bartered, no promises made. Kim Jong Il had nothing to gain by holding Lee and Ling. He was given the opportunity to save face by releasing them, and nothing more.
But look at the bright side, whiny Republican apologists. Now you can go back to more "important" things, like making a better forgery of Obama's "Kenyan birth certificate" (note: it still won't work, because it will still be a forgery!), making more unfounded claims that a Living Will means that people who have them must pick the time and date they have to die, and complaining that the Cash for Clunkers program is a waste of money...but be sure to ignore the fact that besieged car dealers are having a sales boom, or that workers in the automobile factories are working to build the cars, or that we're getting the old, gas guzzling, air polluting cars off the road, and maybe even doing something that takes a step toward reducing our dependence on foreign oil...unless you like sending our money to Saudi Arabia! Oh, and let's not forget that you can now go to the Town Hall meetings with your members of Congress and make fools of yourselves by allowing the health care industry lobbyists to tell you what to say and how to act (short version: act like second graders!) while not allowing actual discussion of any issues. Look up "lemming" in your Funk and Wagnall's and there's your picture!
Welcome home, Euna Lee and Lisa Ling. The good news is, you do not have any Republicans or their b*tch and moan followers to thank for your release...
Tom, I agree with you, who the hell goes hiking in iraq!! Something is very wrong with this story. They are screwed just because they didn't go hiking in the good ole U.S.A
Rod, I think you're suffering from a bad case of the swine flu. Perhaps you caught it while voting for the republican ticket, or snivelling that obama won. Regardless, Clinton did more good for this country that reagan and george W combined.
DGW: "Yep, we provided concessions. We undoubtedly gave them all our nuclear information, and probably threw in a few long range missiles with 100 megaton warheads on them for good measure. We improved their "economic, political, social, military (and many other categories) situation". We obviously gave them hundreds of billions of dollars, provided every citizen with steak and lobster dinners every evening for the next ten years, and built five bedroom, two bath houses for them as well. All in exchange for two journalists. And I'm the King of Belgium."
Nope, if the concession is about renewed dialogue, then they have given North Korea the only thing it needs: time.
Moral of the story: It pays to know people in high places. Lee and Ling would be embarking right now on a 15 year life of misery, if Ling's older sister hadn't had what little celebrity that she has. She, through her connections was able to take the story nationally in the media and keep it there for a considerably long time, considering the disposable news culture we have today.
If it were you or I, do you really think Al and Bill would have been so passionate about getting our release? Like moths are drawn to light, Bill and Al saw an opportunity to get some media exposure out of this human drama because it was getting national exposure. If it had been you or I, we would have been lucky to receive a paragraph on page 15 of the world news section of the local newspaper and maybe one care package from our families during our 15 years of hard labor.
I'm glad that these women are back on US soil. But, what kind of a Dumb Ass Fool sent these women to North Korea in the first place?? Is anyone asking that question?
Could it be, because it was Al Gore???
Learning a lesson is NOT part of THEIR logic. Has the State Dept grabbed their passports? The lesson giving elite can do whatever...
I spent 25 years at 3 major US universities. The elite do whatever. I could spend another 25 years, earn 5 more degrees and I still wouldn't GET IT.
Rudy-317202
So Rudy please explain what nuclear concession were given up ? do you have a inside mole that advised you on the discussions by the former president and little Kim, or his advisers, assumptions run wild on these posts, so does ideological talking points that are stated as fact, My question is sincere though, if you have information that leads to the assumption something has been given up , please tell. I may have missed something , was a apology made ? all I heard reported was a thank you, I do know the last eight years of our foreign policy didn't work, it ended up with a successful nuclear weapons test and more missile test, it also fomented the idea that a non super power nation has only one option to protect its self from an aggressive super power, and that's to have a nuclear weapon, and that is a deeply concerning thought that was not considered the last eight years. while other nations watched as this country invaded a country that hadn't attacked this nation, the fear ran through many nations they could be next if there was a disagreement or if they had something useful a super power wanted..oil, minerals,nation building to reshape the world, or a particular area, or a passage way needed for a distribution of resources? Every move creates a counter move, so foreign policy must looked at for every possibility on the chessboard before making decisions, something former UN representative Mr Bolton (who criticized former president Clinton and the Obama adminstration today for meeting with the North Koreans) wouldn't have a clue about, as he is so mirrored in ideology.
topher123
Yeah, we had a sweet deal with NK before someone blew it! All we had to do was provide them with aid and they wouldn't harm anyone. But that's extortion isn't it?
Yep, we sent the right man. It takes a crook to deal with a crook.
I absolutely agree with dudleydoright, even though his comment was collapsed by the community.
I'm glad the women were released. Of course.
But, I am overwhelmed with irritation that Americans keep "wandering" into territory of hostile countries!! The latest; 3 tourists in Iran, what are we arrogant, or just stupid?
The State Department should issue a warning to all Americans; get caught in a country you don't belong in, fend for yourself!!! Enough!!
It's just a dog and pony show. They were spying by Korea's standards.
Outcome US KOWTOWs.
levantase
"The State Department should issue a warning to all Americans; get caught in a country you don't belong in, fend for yourself!!! Enough!!"
The State Department did issue a warning telling people to be careful about where you go, as for fending for yourself, you may have to look at it that way depending where you are, but this adminstration so far does not seem to take that attitude, it seems to try and make efforts to help citizens who have been caught in this situation as seen by these two women released today.
john t......
Let me get this straight....when you referred to a previous post about North Korea's firing off a bunch of missiles in June and July, you say that was the result of George Bush's policies toward that country.
So help me understand...the absolute lunatic in charge of North Korea is angry at Bush...for whatever reason...so he waits unitl the NEXT president is in office for 6 or 7 months and then starts firing missiles....and that is to retaliate for Bush's policies ???
Staggering logic, my man, just staggering.
So...you're saying that if your sister were held abroad you wouldn't use the media to try to get her released?
Unbelievable...
Who are you addressing, MB-967281? If it's another user, cut it out.
Are you friggin serious!!! The 1994 Agreed Framework came about as a compromise with a NK some believed had already developed nuclear weapons technology, and perhaps a nuclear bomb or two. Concern over this issue came about in the 1980s, when it became clear that NK wanted to design and develop both long-range ballistic missiles, and nuclear weapons. Their weapons programs were clearly designed for dual use, in that they wanted to sell weapons and weapons technology while building up their own arsenal to strengthen their position on the Korean peninsula. Bill Clinton didn't cause this problem to come into being, but he certainly did not take the necessary steps to deal with it, even as it became clear that North Korea was notabiding by the 1994 Agreed Framework. President's from the end of the Korean War forward have been trying to negotiate with NK and they have continued to build weapons. When are people going to learn you cannot negotiate with this country for anything without China. And China isn't going to pull them completely in because they don't want a democratic country on their borders.
I am glad the women are safe and at home with their families. But it is time that Americans learn you cannot go near any terrorist country without facing the consequences.
I heard President Clinton was on the other end of the cigar this time. Yeah, fair trade for sure.
I have to say nice work on the part of President Clinton.I guess there's no one better to free up a couple of women.Seriously though I am glad they are free and maybe it shows a thawing of the scary situation that involves North Korea right now.Any time one of these regimes seeks a positive image it's a good thing.
Uh...john t...If you do your homework you'll see that missles have been fired pretty much darn near every administration for the oh past 4....So please blaming Bush is old....He's out of office....Get over it...
North Korea intertains a lot of important people like Clinton. Here is a news clip from N. Korea on such.
"
calendar>>July 5. 2009 Juche 98
Greetings to Venezuelan President
"Pyongyang, July 5 (KCNA) -- Kim Yong Nam, president of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly of the DPRK, Sunday sent a message of greetings to Hugo Chavez Frias, President of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, on the occasion of its independence day.
Expressing belief that the friendly and cooperative relations between the DPRK and Venezuela would continue to grow strong, Kim in his message wished the president and people of Venezuela greater success in their work to defend the Bolivarian socialist revolution."
palco - Even though I believe NK and Kim Jong Il to be totally over the edge, I think you make a good point about these types of country’s being afraid of the US' aggression. I mean they were told they had one of two choices they were either with us or against us. What kind of tyrant gives the whole world that kind of ultimatum? You can't even choose to be neutral, either join us or we may invade you.
Ironic these ladies work for Gore, a leading figure in a party that apparently dislikes America. They got a real taste of an oppressive government. Twelve years for crossing the border - at hard labor. They sure were glad to get back to this place so many complain about. I bet several of the issues their magazine rants about - waterboarding, the gay agenda, racial profiling, global warming, and other trivial b/s seem less significant now that they have witnessed first hand how bad things can be elsewhere. Welcome home.
And by the way. Let's not forget the Bill clinton that sided with Jane Fonda in Viet Nam. bashing the United States while among communist of thier own kind. If you accept that, then you are nothing but a supporter of a traitor to the United States of America.
Tony yes the last in a series of tests that started well before Bush left office. Though slow we were making progress with N Korea before Bush decided to punish them by not talking to them, Bush's third grade style diplomacy ramped up our problems with N Korea .
gillanator
I agree little Kim is over the edge. and we know he has a nuclear weapon, I don't think our 35 thousand troops at the border or the South Koreans want of taste of it either.
If Obama and Clinton are responsible, it's a "Commie plot" to ummm... uhhhhh... do some nasty thing that everyone knows that Commies are known to do.
If Bush was responsible, then it would have been "brilliant strategy and negotiation skills on the part of our beloved President".
We all know the drill...
So Johnt...you think we should "talk" to a country who blackmails the world into concessions...Who uses threats to get what they want...Go back, again, and do some research and look at all the times he has acted out, and then look to see what he was given in exchange to stop...Look to see how many times he has "talked" to the world...So yeah....It's Bush's fault he's been acting this way as far back as before the Clinton administration....You hate Bush so much you'd blame him for global warming too huh??
So Rob. What is your solution ? What was bush's solution ? Pretend he's not there ? It's funny bush invaded Iraq because sadam was a bad man. But won't touch NK. I guarantee he would be able to find the WMDs in NK. Maybe he was afraid of the one and a quarter billion screaming Chinese? Or maybe NK doesn't have enough oil?
It's not up to me to have a solution, but when you give in to a Bully he will always come back for more if you do...Why should we talk to them??
So Bush ignored them....That was his solution...Clinton allowed American companies to HELP BUILD THEIR REACTORS...The same ones that are producing your WMDs there..
So yeah...What's YOUR solution gill?
Of course NK won't, but I'm glad we've left the cowboy mentality behind...This is someone from the West speaking!
Since they worked for Al Gore I would have made a trade, The two women for Al Gore. This way we wouldn't have to hear him on Global Warming.
Rachel, you talk about Cowboy Mentality, If Bill Clinton would have had a little himself all the American Embassies that were Blown up and PEOPLE DYING Bush wouldn't have did what he HAD TO DO.
When was the last time you heard about how many American are dying now that the Muslim Obama is in Office. AND YOU WON'T. You always heard about how many Americans died but you never heard how many of the TERRORIST we KILLED. Hundreds of Thousands. Thank You George Bush. I want to start a new following, THE BBB's ( B)ring( B)ack (B)ush.
Cowboy mentality? This is the ultimate cowboy act! Former president makes secret, solo mission to North Korea to rescue two journalists. How much more "cowboy" can you get?
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad the women were released. But wouldn't it have been better if they hadn't been arrested or captured or whatever in the first place? Certain places in the world - North Korea and Iran being among them - have been deemed too dangerous for anyone to visit. Like Beirut several years ago, people, not just journalists but students and tourists too, kept right on going there in spite of warnings about risking their safety. Is a news story really worth that kind of sacrifice? Considering the way that news organizations lately tend to push a certain agenda rather than just report facts, I doubt it.
Aside from the details of this "rescue", what does this say about the state of US foreign policy? Secretary of State Clinton chides North Korea for their actions and urges enforcement of UN sanctions. Perfectly reasonable given North Korea's recent berhavior. North Korea responds in the most juvinile way possible with name-calling, personal comments about Secretary Clinton, and posturing. THEN Bill goes off the reservation on his rescue mission. (I thought the deal was that Obama would be the Democrat presidential candidate, Hillary would get to be Secretary of State or some other influential job in the new administration,  and Bill would stay home and clip his coupons.)
If it had been one of Jesse Jackson's rescue missions with no obvious connections to US policy, just Jesse going off on his own, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But with such obvious ties to this administration and whatever foreign policy we have now, I don't see it as being good.Â
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1. What did we give up to get these two out of jail?
2. If their last names were Schmidt and O'Malley rather than Ling and Lee would the Obama Administration have been so willing to do this?
3. What is the Obama Administration doing to get the GI held by Taliban freed?
4. While I was in the Army I spent a year on the Korean DMZ- rest assured that neither Bill Clinton nor Barak Obama saving face for Kim Jong Il will stop the North Koreans from coming south when they feel the time is right. The only deterrent to an invasion of South Korea is the US military which Obama loathes and is weakening.
5. Did this diplomatic triumph follow Rahm Emanuel's (I probably spelled it wrong) dictate of never wasting a good crisis?
MB you're paranoid. And NO ONE cares what YOU think.
MB
And now the next question is what will Iran want for the three hikers?
I just wanted to stop by and see how all of you pathetic neo-cons are taking this news. Just as I suspected, all any of you can do is piss and moan about everything the democrats do. Thank god we have an intelligent man in the oval office. Kudos to President Obama.
Bravo, Mr Clinton!
I totally agree with you, Tim, the current administration could deflect a world destroying asteroid and these people would still complain.
Go ahead and praise the mind-less Muslim
fed
5. So you were in on the negotiations and know what was agreed upon. Well thanks then for clearing that up, always nice to get the "facts" from someone who was on the scene.
Salem,
I hate to inform you, but this administration would never be capable of deflecting a world destroying asteroid. In order to do that, you would actually have to take defensive measures (i.e. a missile of some sorts). We all know, Obama would start with apologizing to the asteroid and/or sternly addressing said asteroid. When that didn't work, he would say "What you need to do is remember, I inherited this world destroying asteroid from the previous administration!"
Don't get mad, I just have Obama figured out.
john you can bring bush back to your house but we good Americans dont even want him in the country.
Joe Good Americans,would not have ELECTED a Anti--- Christ Muslim to be President of this Great Country.
Must everything turn into Republicans vs. Democrats? What makes each party think they have all of the answers. We are in a total mess and we continue to attack one another rather than try to work toward a common platform. The government has made plenty of deals with other countries and powers at be behind our backs forever. I'm a happy this one resulted in bringing these women home to their families. I assure you that if any of you had a loved one in this situation you would want them back at any cost.
Until we start coming from a place of love and stop attacking one another we will never succeed and nothing will ever change.
No shooting, K.C! Actually, cowboy mentality refers to the saying, "Cowboys shoot first and ask questions afterwards." The writer was referring to rushing in with guns drawn, the approach of the Lone Ranger from Texas!
Oh really? Try telling that to the three dead Somali pirates who were shot by SEALS on President Obama's orders. Did you forget that already?
John, was does Christ have to do with it? It is a great country with or without Christ. There are many great people on this planet that are not Christ followers.
Pure and simple; stay out of the fire and you won't get burnt! Messing-around on the border of an unfriendly nation is just asking for trouble and there is no one to blame but yourself.
Common sense is not so common anymore.
Are you kidding of course they could. Haven't you heard, we will soon control the climate, end all health concerns, drive electric cars and who know what else they will fix! The answer my friend is blowing in the wind and the wind blows from Washington from the mouths of the politicians echoed by their followers all across the fruited (physically and mentally) plain. For God's sake is there anything more important than saving a journalist? Only saving us from ourselves!
Secret? how could clinton go to one of the most hostile nations on earth and keep it a secret?
Clearly you're bitching and moaning because the GOP didn't have their filthy greasy hands in freeing americans. that's because after 8 years of Bush there were no released americans except for Jessica Lynch who came forward and said the Iraqis treated her well. There were however, many account where mercenaries, servicemen and contractors were taken hostage and killed under Bush's "Neo-Con" policies in Iraq.
Tom-286396
On the contrary. Someone must care about what MB-967281 thinks. He's one vote ahead of you. That one vote is mine!
John Bartimac
You forgot to mention the 650 thousand to a million civilians George wasted in Iraq and the million or so displaced, and Bins boys were not even there till we arrived, hell they hated Saddam as much as we did (or at least till he was of no use to us anymore,) I don't no about your job or bank account but I think most Americans can't afford your revival of George.
John Bartimac
Who made you a judge good Americans ? delusions are rampant on these post.
moo....
Regarding the 3 Somali pirates who got shot....please don't pin a medal on Mr. Obama for this one. The fact is that the ship's captain should have been dead.
Mr. Obama insisted that he be kept informed every step of the way and demanded that he be in on every decision...rather than leave matters up to career military experts who are indeed sufficiently trained to do the things that they must do. THEY are the experts... not some one-year US Senator / community organizer with a couple of weeks in the White House.
When that captain jumped off the pirates' little boat, those 3 pirates should have been dead within 2 seconds, since the Navy marksmen now had clear shots whlie the captain was quite safely in the drink. Boom, boom, boom...done deal. But no. Mr. Obama had to be kept in the loop and involved in the situation.
The pirates started shooting at the captain in the water and he gave up and went back to their boat. Do you get this...the captain would have been dead if only ONE of those flea-bitten little ragamuffin "pirates" could properly execute a less than 10 meter shot. The reason that captain is alive is because the pirates were lousy shots...period. The reason the captain should have been killed is because of General Obama's meddling.
If only one tick-infested, dirtball pirate had even gotten lucky or had actually known how to discharge his weapon...the captain would have been nothing but a corpse in the water due to his Commander in Chief's assinine meddling into a situation that was beyond his pay grade.
Do your homework and do not plant plaudits on those who do not deserve them...and in fact could have cost a good and heroic man his life due to some novice politician's unneeded meddling into something way beyond his capacity.
Tony-268769, Obama is commmander and chief of this country and have a right to be informed as to what is being done. He let's the service do their job but he knows on his shoulders blames lies. The president is the one we blame for everything and we all know this. You sound like an expert so why in the hell didn't you run for the presidence? As for being a novice, Obama is much better than your drunken President Bush and his Henchman Cheney. Oh sorry that's what you call experience and we are still at war because of your experience president. The president Obama had the captain rescued by Rear Admiral Michelle Howard and her crew( Black woman), they were heroes too. I want you to know all of us that serviced in combat for our country are heroes, Did you service????? Obama's capacities are great, his problem lies in the fact that pathetic people like you would rather see this country fail than succeed under his leadership. Bush ruined this country for eight long horrible years and all of you sat back and sucked it up, now for the last eights months you speak. Were you like Rip Van Winkle sleeping for 8 years??? Hell, I for one wish you had woke up sooner and voiced an opinion so maybe jobs, 401 K's, businesses and homes could have been saved. You really should go back to "SLEEP".
You got it backwards. Cheney was the one who was really in charge. Bush was just the figurehead/henchman.
Honestly, these two were employees of Al Gore...
What was given up was a former US PResident doing the right thing to secure these ladies freedom.
They should not have ever been put into harms way, especially by a former Vice President, however President Clinton was willing to stand up and do what was necessary to gain these reporters their freedom.
Kudos to the Clinton's for willing to do what was necessary and boo at Al Gore for yet again proving he will sacrifice who he wants to try and prove his point.
"It speaks well of our country that when two American citizens are in harm's way, that so many people will just put things aside and just go to work to make sure that this has had a happy ending," by Al Gore.
It is obvious that Al Gore did not see the hate crawling on these vines.
Such a shame, these hate crawlers calling themselves Americans, so willing to leave other Americans in the hands of the enemy. And they call themselves patriots, working behalf of America. It sure sounds like the revival of the Nazis.
did they have to do the monica thing
Rachel ... Let me know when you leave The City of Oz ... The guy is threatening South Korea because they won't continue to feed the starving north. He needs all his money for porn and nukes.
Real rocket scientist working for Al Gore ... And their mission was to find out if the starved people of a Marxist State were being treated well. Look what our public education has let loose.
We need education reform here. Too funny. LOL
Mary Robertson...
Thanks for the laugh...try learning how to spell and write with at least some semblance of middle school proficiency before you worry about trying to deride the opinions or intelligence of others.
Former Fed Agent as one of the "right wingers" (who's an independent) you think you're gonna quote on the Sodier captured in Afghanistan,what I said was his actions and a break down in procedure led to his capture,a comment I'll stand by.I support all efforts to retrieve him but if he is recovered alive he has some explaining to do,as do his superiors.
Uh Microsoft Blows....I think he means that you didn't hear about it UNTIL HE HAD ALREADY GOT THEM OUT....hence in secrecy doofus...
Don't kid yourself. The BO Administration has promised "something" to this whack job terrorists.
I think the pathetic part is, Mrs. Pearl, Daniel Pearl's wife is probably wondering WHY couldn't Mr. Clinton have negotiated HER husband's release?
Do us ALL a favor...STAY OUT OF CHINA, SOUTH KOREA, or the IRAQ/IRAN BORDER! IF you play with danger....you'll pay the consequences.
I'm hoping the next time...we don't have to negotiate with these terrorists to save stupid people who go looking for danger!
I am glad you know more than the rest of us, can you slip us the intelligent briefings that you are privy too?
Oh damn, pure speculation!
You pretty much said it all, brother.
hey "tkhk>": Why don't YOU do US a favor and SHUT UP. Your opinions are worthless.
KM
Do you truly believe that Kim gave them back for just a photo op? Common sense says that they were promised something for their release.
Well since Kim Jong has never shown much in the way of common sense, I really doubt that is all he got out of it. My problem is that we don't know what was promised and probably never will and now we have to wait and see what Iran will want for the hikers.
Well I can pretty much guarantee you we didn't give him a pass on building nuclear weapons. Why would anyone think that? It could've been something as simple as a life time supply of Twinkies and Ding Dongs and that would be something worth negotiating for.
But this good give a nice two to three day cover to replace all the news about American citizens trashing Mr. Obama's disastrous health care plans.
TD
Never said anything about giving him a pass on nukes, but since we have no idea you can't really guarantee anything. It could be something as minor as Twinkiesor anything else, that's the problem since we don't know we can't judge whether it was worth negotiating for. Since the deal is done there is no reason not to make it public, let's see a little of that transparency we were promised.
Actually if the President Obama Admninistration had given something up they never would have seperated themselves from what Clinton had done.
The Obama Administration would have seperated themselves early on, however once successfull would have taken all the credit.
This one was obviously all Hillary, using Bill to get the desired results and not giving up anything other than some pride for photograph's. I am pretty sure the CZAR OF NORTH KOREA was probably not informed.
I am willing to bet this was Al Gore (saving his employees who he endangered) and Bill/Hillary Clinton making the right choices to save them and using just a photo-op to do it.
If the current Administration had given up anything they would be adorning themselves with all the accolades.
Remember, even during the Somali pirate fiasco they stayed well out of the limelight and once successful they claimed their piece of the pie. If that had gone a different way, some soldiers/Sailors would be in jail.
This one is all Clinton/Gore and Kudos to Bill & Hillary and screw you Gore for getting them into the situation for your new Media Company.
Rachel, and you are as ignorant as most people in the West. In 1992 N. Korea agreed to mutual inspections of N and S Korea to prove there were no nuclear weapons in either N or S. Korea. As soon as we cancelled all large scale US/S. Korean Military Training for the year as a pre-condition demanded by N. Korea they immediately reneged on the aggreement. Then under Clinton they signed a guarantee that they would not develop nuclear weapons and then IMMEDIATELY began developing nuclear weapons. They promised Bush they would stop building nuclear weapons and then detonated two nuclear weapon tests. For the past two years we have been convincing S. Korea to take a harder line on N. Korea and finally a pro-US S. Korean President was elected and we (US, Japan and S. Korea) were presenting a unified front to attempt to pressure N. Korea to STOP building nuclear weapons. NOW, just because two dumbass 'self-proclaimed' journalists decided to sneak into N. Korea to film starving children and hope to produce it on American TV and then got caught our diplomacy program toward N. Korea is in shambles because Clinton has gone over there and kissed Kim Jong Il's ass. We have humiliated and undermined S. Korea and Japan with this crap. So Thank you very much you two stupid Asian American bit--s and your families for screwing the pooch and then begging for US Assistance to get those women out of jail.
Funny, I was raised and college educated in the East..wanna try again????
Did not get a lot from that supposedly "college education" did you?
Really, KMartian, you know me??
I do not and did not like GW Bush, I believe as a US citizen, that is my right...and I do believe that my education in PoliSci aided me in that, thank you, very much!
BTW-I notice on other NV stories you attack the "Republicans and other that do not believe as you, are you an equal opportunity troller?? Just curious....
Very well put! Clinton and Gore what a show! Your right another dumb ass and pony show..................
RACHEL1-933I am 952 I attack those whom are anti-American, I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I am AMERICAN. I put my country first, not last. For without my country I would be just like those whom struggle to find a home. For you see I am an AMERICAN. I do not put my ethnicity before my country. The color of my skin does not matter, I bleed red, white and blue. I am an AMERICAN first. I live in AMERICA, I will defend it, and give my life for her! I understand what she gives to ME!
Most do not understand what they get, they are consumed by what they are given. There is a difference. At least I understand the difference. How about you?
Dwater, if you had your head somewhere except where the sun dont shine you would have read the release negotiations were already completed and all that was left to do was to pick up the girls. As smart as you are about international relations I see a bright future ahead for you starting with the election to the office of mayor for your trailer court. Make sure erverybody has their tie downs snugged up. The stormy season is a long way from over.
nipdoc, you want to turn them into our ally? How do you do that? Give them millions of our money, Done that. They will have to borrow more money just to reprint the books they brainwash the kids in school. How America is an evil imperialist nation. They hate us. Just like Iran. Crazy leaders don't change. You cant trust them. Our intentions will be good, while they have said one thing and then done another. I know a way to make them our ally, just send Obama over there and he can apologize for America again. He is good at that.
Bush would have started yet another war. If your child ate candy and you wanted to teach them a lesson would you put them in a closet for a year? Just thinking how easy it is to judge others actions when we are on the side lines safe and sound.
Good Lord -- "KMartin" is another one of those weird right wing crackpots who claim to be "patriots." At least they provide comic relief..........
Ol Glen, God they let you vote too?? Release negotiations were completed...only needed to go pick them up?? So guess who they insisted come over, kiss their kimchee garlic N. Korean asses on world media TV and pick the girls up?! Yep....Ol Bill, who had nothing else on his dayplanner for this week. As I said, Ol Glen Buckwheat, we screwed our allies and made fools of ourselves AGAIN over a couple of idiot Americans going where they KNEW they were going to get in trouble and then having the audacity to plead for official US intervention. I guess I can put on a white sheet and wander into S. Central LA, set fire to a cross and then scream for US government help when I start to get my ass shot. And oh yes, Ol Glen Moonbeam, I have a single wide trailer all set aside for you, your goldfish named Gumdrop and your dog named Nutjob.
Nancy for O, candy vs nukes give me a break. They are not our kids, they are our enemies, It is their choice to be our enemy. Bush didn't start another war with NKorea for the eight years he was in office, so you really cant say that and be believed.
KMartin-
May I ask how my not liking one person could/would make me un-American?
And, why would you bring color of any type into our conversation??
My blood is blue until I bleed, how about you??
Dwater: I take it from your posts that you think we should've just let them stay in N. Korea and face whatever consequences Kim Jong had waiting for them? But yet that's embarrassing too because that shows we don't have the resolve to do anything about it. Or, perhaps, your preferred method would've been a strike force of bombers and cruise missiles and a show of American military muscle and hope that in the after math that followed anyone would still be alive to rescue? I would not at all be surprised that N. Korea didn't make the first move on this and indicated they'd be willing to release the reporters if the US would provide a way for it to happen. The main thing is that the girls are home but it appears your more concerned with how tough we look than in saving lives. I think your priorities are backwards.
Rachel, you cannot reason with those who are unreasonable.
I think that KMartin doth protest too, too much. Most vets I know don't feel the need to prove what they have already proven, that being that they love their country. They also know that civilians love their country too.
I am a liberal and guess what, I'm a vet as well. What a shock that must be to the rightys. However I don't feel the need to shout it to the rooftops.
Those on the right who scream that they are more patriotic than anyone on the left possibly could be must be unaware of that many on the left are vets.
I don't think I've ever mentioned it before, but I am sick and tired of this "were more patriotic than you BS." They are not, they are just louder.
I wonder if Limbaugh would call me a phony.
Dwater, I'd restore 4 if not for this:
Both a personal attack and grenade-trolling people in 'the West', whatever you mean by that.
Come on now.
Bill and the journalist broke out the beer and cigars after the plane took off!! Bill was heard to say "unlike Monica these girls inhale"!!!
Damn, another comedian. Wow thanks for showing us your level of intellect!
Your mother must be proud!
Drew, Bill did what no repub attempted, so keep your stupid cigar comments off the posts.
Believe me, draft dodger Bill knew the outcome before he left home! It was staged by odumbo to show how ineffective the hilderbeast is. He used Bill's ego to upstage his wife. Odumbo doesn't want billary around in 2012 to threaten him! Osham-wow hasn't stopped campaigning yet. That is all he knows and it shows!
Salem ,It's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. But you liberals only believe Freedom of Speech is only what you say ,Think,and Write. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMAZING
Of course no neocon went over there. They only talk big when they have an army of other people's children ready to die for them.
Put THEMSELVES in harm's way? lol I needed a laugh.
The way this thread was going I thought it needed to lighten up!! All the haters who only see things from their side. If you liked the comment, you're welcome, if you didn't, f**k you if you can't take a joke!!! And yes my mother was proud, right up until I was five when she died!!! So keep your mother jokes to yourself, you must have low self esteem and a host of other disorders to go that route!!
Westernskies,
First let me correct your statement about "an army of other people's children" should read "an army of VOLUNTEERS".
Next, most Republicans (I believe you chose the word "neocon") know not all conflicts are handled with war. Unfortunately, two wars were started with Bush. One all but finished under him (Iraq) and the other apparantly only got started. By the way, what is the body count in Afganistan since Obama got into office? You wouldn't know because the media isn't sharing that bit of information. God forbid something tarnish Obama's record.
Yeah Drew, and "family values" guys Vitter and Ensign and the rest of them said the same thing. Another fine, marginalizing, idiotic comment from the fringes.
WhatAre You....
July was the deadliest month for American soldiers in Afghanistan since day one. The articles in the news reporting this were quite small, to say the least.
Good to get these women out of NK. The negative commenters here are showing some degree of ignorance. It's sad to see. But, alas, it is the way of the right.
You are so right about the right. Only Republicans/conservatives with their disconnect from reality and their paranoid us-against-the-world mentality would think this is a bad thing. Once again the right shows that they have nothing positive to contribute to any discussion.
Dave--why would you care about 2 aggressive Al Gore plants to try and win some points for his "global warming" money grabbing campaign? Those 2 women risked their lives with no thought for their kids and families, knowingly, to make a name for themselves. Millions of Americans lives are now in jeopardy as rouge countries know they can "negotiate" with Obama. You have been had.
You are absoutley right! They had absolutely no business there and now we forget how we were threatened on July 4th. I am sure Obama wanted the girls back along with a set of plans on how to successfully become a full fledged dictator. He is damn sure trying hard to become one with this insane health care plan. What the hell is he doing at the RV plant again. This bozo knows nothing about leading; he only knows about spending and traveling. We have never had a president who is "on the road again" as much as this idiot is. You certainly don't see the night oil burning in the WH since he took office; because he doesn't know how the hell to stay home and personally I am getting damn sick of hearing and seeing his mug on tv all the time. One thing about the liberals they don't care how much like idiots they look like as long as they get air time. As far as NK; they did not do this for a photo op; it will be interesting to find out what was given to NK for their release. Did Obama only work on this since these girls worked for Gore? Probably, I sure haven't heard anything from him on the 3 that Iran have. Anyone that goes near these countries and are captured should not be heros; but labeled as idiots.
Janey - they were looking for a bigger story than global warming. In their search for the big scoop, they knew how close to or over the border they were. Would an ordinary person who did not work for Gore or have the media power of NBC/CNN ( courtesy of sister Lisa) have been able to get Clinton show up to get them out? Will Bill be willing to go to Iran for a visit in exchange for the non celebrety wanna be's being held now? Have you heard anything recently about those 3 in comparison to the coverage that Ling and her friend got when they were held. Watch for their book and film on their experience. They did get a scoop after all.
many journalists have crossed borders illegally and been in countries where Americans are disliked, ever since international journalism began. nothing has changed.
those women were doing a story on the trafficking of N. Korean women in China.
I wouldn't doubt if the Chinese posing as Koreans, captured and handed them over to N. Korea leaders.
Welcome home ladies!
Saved from NK, but will probably be sexually assaulted by Bill before the plane lands.
The same right wing that makes claim to superior morality always has more problems with immorality in their circles and always seem to have their minds in the gutter.
hey wackjobs...I guess we should have sent Bush over there, maybe they would have kept all three of them
Will you WackJobs out there PLEASE quit telling the TRUTH about BILL THE RAPIST CLINTON, The LIBERALS Don't like it. They only Like what THEY have to say about Bush. It's called Freedom of THEIR Speech.
wackjobs, would be those of you that voted this idiot into the WH...excuse me that would have been with the help of the Unions, Acorn & GE via the MSM. Our country is in more debt than it has ever been due to this wackjob. No program has worked that he engineered, including his cash for junkers. He doesn't have a clue what the hell he is doing. All Americans must cut back on expenditures; but not Obama....he will travel the U.S. and the world, will spend the taxpayer money like a drunken sailor, and is now in Indiana giving more billions to engineer his electric vehicles that will travel l00 miles. WTF, people are having a hard time putting food on their tables and this bozo is worried about the manufacturing of electric automobiles. What a frickin idiot he is! By the way I am an Independent; not a Repub....this idiot's numbers are going down and they will continue to do so...people are waking up to the fact that he is clueless!!!!
Patriot, you sure sound like a Repub to me - angry, delusional and full of hate.
Good Job Billy Boy, I bet that was a fun party onthe way back, Ihope it is posted on you tube soon
Hussein found another use for the stimulus funds. I hope we did not pay more that 3B otherwise the "green grants" will suffer.
Wonder what it will cost us in Iran?? Maybe will be funding their nuke program.
Hopefully Jimmy Carter gets his day in the sun. Whoops, that would cost Israel their country.
You are so stupid, it hurts.
Is it just me but is the site of Slick Willie standing at the door of his private plane waiting on 2 young Asian ladies to walk inside not the funniest thing we have seen in while? Letterman and Conan should have a field day with this one.
nipdoc....you have got to be kidding me? You really think that Slick Willie did this all by himself? Obama wrote the check....all the slickmesiter did was deliver it. Great statesmanship my butt. I hope you are being sarcastic......it was a very sad day in American history to bow down to a rogue nation intent on destroying us. Slick Willie with 2 young asian girls....just call him Quagmire.
Nokoolaide-whether we agree on politics or not, you're right! Some good possible comedy material there!
nipdoc - Just a addition to your mention of JFK and the Cuban Missile Crisis.
JFK enacted an Einsenhower plan to overthrow Castro in 1961 (Bay of Pigs).
JFK "resolved" the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 (Russian missiles shipping to Cuba).
Any chance that these are connected? Maybe that the crisis that JFK "resolved" was a crisis that he caused? Just something to think about.
Also, your posts are hilarious.
Can't wait for Jib-Jab to publish its version of the flight home!
So now its our policy to deal with terrorists. How many more ways will the liberals sell out this country? oh yea socilized medicine.
amen!
Ronald Reagan contra scandal anyone?
The various connections the Bush family had with Osama Bin Laden?
I dont know how many ways the liberals will end up selling us out, but if they ever need inspiration, they can just take a peek at the ways the conservatives have already done it.
Bill will introduce these women to the mile high club and the cigar of the month club!
Bill should have traded Michelle or Nancy or both for both the reporters!!
I think this would have a very good deal for both countries!!
I have a feeling Hillary was on Bill's short list...but Kim does have a brain. Who would want her?
I'm aware that this is a bit off topic, but....
Why does MSNBC prevent any open discussion on certain hand-selected news articles that they report?????
An example that I'm referring to is their home page article entitled...
"OBAMA TO UNVEIL 2.4 BILLION "GREEN" GRANTS"
Their intent is obvious and only proves that they will not permit any negative publicity or disapproving comments directed toward Obama. MSNBC continually tries to shield Obama from receiving ANY negative press... or unsatisfactory comments from the American public.
It's their way of "reporting", but censoring at the same time.... all to influence public opinion.
Truth & Honesty...I agree. There are no comments on this so called Elkhart project allowed because they know it would get plastered horribly. $2 Billion....where is the printing press for this money? This guy is absolutely insane. This buffoon is obsessed with one town and one industry.
Did you miss the little icon that has the tiny Newsvine logo? Clicking on it lets you seed/ share and discuss the article on Newsvine?
It is not some big liberal conspiracy....... that is unless by not having the "discuss" word at the bottom of the page that makes it too hard for people who have their tin foil wrapped too tight around their noggins. Then yes, it might just be that MSNBC is in league with dark forces on the left.
Feel free to tell me where to go ;-)
btco...
What would be the reason for MSNBC to "conveniently" hide the normal "discuss" option in a much harder-to-find, more discreet location....
Especially when it comes to discussing "hot topic" articles that could potentially place Barak Obama in a negative light and show that America DOES NOT approve of what he is doing...
The bottom line... it's MSNBC'S attempt at "selective" censorship.
Good point conspiracy indeed.
Can you say making a mountain out of a molehill????
Truth & Honesty: You have got to be kidding. There are plenty examples of articles on MNSBC where by far the majority of the comments in the news vine forums are negative comments and rants against Obama. The President can do nothing right for the right. There is nothing he has done or ever will do that will find favor with the right I can almost guarantee it. As btco already noted, seed the article in your newsvine account and start bashing.
Because Truth, MSNBC is owned by GE who stands to gain billions if the cap and trade and health care goes thru. It is Obama's pay back for getting him elected. Acorn also stands to gain with both of these bills passing, the most corrupt organization which is funded very well by the Dems. He is the most corrupt man to ever hold the office of President. I am getting my popcorn ready; because sooner or later this will all come out. My prayer every night is those idiots that voted for Obama sit out the next presidential election because they do not have enough sense to research people running for office. They got it terribly wrong when they voted for an idiot that seals his records from the American public, has absolutely no experience in running anything and can't say two words without screwing up without his teleprompter. Please, no vote for these idiots the next time. I am a registered independent, not a republican so don't even go there!
Patriot - Spoken like a true conspiracy loving wing nut. You may be independent, but your thoughts expressed here are nothing but extreme right wing garbage.
Gee - I believe he's talking about George W. Bush. Patriot, are you a stand up comedian? You should be. That's funny.
For crying out loud...have you READ the posts on this vine? If MSNBC didn't want anybody to make any negative comments about President Obama, they'd have to shut down every discussion there is, because wingnuts can turn a story that has absolutely nothing to do with politics into an Obama hatefest.
Yeah, clearly there's no place to discuss the President of the United States on the best U.S. news site.
Oh, wait. newsvine.com/obama.
Truth and Honesty, this is one of the silliest things I've ever read. You've been here seven months and have had two comments collapsed.
One here.
And one here.
Unsurprisingly, they're derails about Obama on stories about NYC drivers and a house fire.
You've made plenty of 'MSNBC and Obama are in league with each other' comments in your time here, and they're still up.
Honestly. Think before you type.
Time to give it up, then. Move on to reading Foreign Affairs, The Economist, Wilson Quarterly, or whatever. Ten inches of computer screen 'news' is not information. It is not even conspiracy. It's only a way to present ads.
Ad Hominom statements are usually cheap shots that add little to debate don't you think? We are capable of analysis rather than trading meaningless republican code words masquerading as ad hominom "comments". Fairness is a value not championed by the right anyway.
now they can go hiking in Iran
I heard Iraq deserts are far better to hike than Iran.
I heard that when they saw Bubba come to get them , they said, "we'll take our chances with these Korean guys". Obama once again gives validity to a 2-bit dictator, but then again, he is one too.
It make us look bad having to send a former president to negotiate a release of two Americans. Like going there with our tail between our legs. But I am sure it will be on Oprah, MSNBC, CNN, Larry King for months to come. I am not sure how Obama will handle it. On the one hand it is a diversion away from his failures (1 trillion in debt economy in the first six months and the health rationing take over). But Obama likes to be the one in the spotlight. Don't get me wrong, I am sure glad these girls whom I have prayed for a safe return home are home. Just curious how this gets played. I do see that they were well fed. A lot more I am sure than the starving kids photo on this home page.
Nah. It just depends on who the "former president" is. Had it been either of the Bushes, all these complainers would be singing a much different tune. I'm certain this is a tough pill to swallow for conservatives. Anything either of the Clintons do that turns out well is condemned by our own home grown critics that are taking on tendencies that approach neo-Nazism as their desperation increases. I wonder if they have abandoned or just chosen to forget their own proclamation of just a few years back ~ ~ "if you don't like what is happening in America, get out!!" Now when the political tables are turned, criticism and denunciation are deemed patriotic gestures.
Jim....It was my opinion that it made us look bad having to go and get them, in turn giving that piece of crap Kim credibility. I am very pleased my prayers were answered that they are safe. But like always you people on the left are confused. Could you tell me why Obama has 42 Czars?, many of who are socialist/communists. Why Obama and the Clinton's are in line with socialism? Because they are socialists. America is not a communist country. What exactly don't you understand?
Jim--thank God Former President Bush did not negotiate with rouge nations or terrorists. I hope we are not starting to see a new "axis of evil" take over with Obama in charge.
Bush never negotiated because he lacked the brains, b**ls and drive to do so! It was much easier for him to run the presidency like yet one more entitlement in his life, declaring "Axis of Evil", "bring 'em on", and then sitting on his a** in Crawford for most of his tenure, like he chose to do when he was briefed about Al Q's intention to strike in the US one month before it happened.
Ex-Lib: Ever heard of McCarthyism? That's you.
td3k, did youe ver hear of answering the question. Why the 42 Czars and counting? They dont answer to anyong but Obama. That is not how America works.
Ex-Lib: Ever hear of a Presidential cabinet? For the President to have advisors on key policy issues or programs that the government is under taking is nothing sinister or frightening. It's how he maintains control of information and make sure that things are being managed efficiently. You cannot manage effectively and have anything succeed if you do not have some means of monitoring the progress. That is all the czars are doing as far as I can tell. Labeling people as socialists and communists is pointless. By the way, socialism is NOT communism.
Thanks td3k. So good to hear someone sane post responses to these right-wing neo somethings. Sad to say , you and I are wasting our breath (keystrokes in this case) :>) because they are not mentally competent to comprehend. Thank goodness we have the ballot box which the Republicans were not able to control this time ( I'm thinking Florida in the 2000 election. This time the voice of reason spoke in our country on November 2008 the Repug agenda was thoroughly defeated.
Socialism and Communism are economic systems, not forms of goverment. I believe a nation is socialist when the govt controls more than 50% of the businesses. In a communist nation, the govt controls all business.
So when the US government controls Amtrack, GM, etc, etc , and is going for healthcare, I believe the socialist accusations have merit.
Jim...
I really don't have a problem if a crackball, murderous tyrant like Kim Jong Il despises a former president like Mr. Bush and would never have turned these girls over to him. Perhaps it's because these muddleheaded terrorists and wannabe dictators simply feared folks like Bush, Ronald Reagan, etc.
I do remember a certain Libyan dictator calming down quite a bit after President Reagan zipped a rocket onto his daughter's head...and that nutball didn't cause too many problems since. Years later, would Libya have welcomed Reagan in to finalize the release of a couple of Americans...probably not.
I wonder if a place like Rwanda would welcome Mr. Clinton in to secure the release of a couple of Americans like those two young "reporters" in North Korea. Or...would somebody remind them that while a half million Rwandans were beating hacked to pieces with machetes, the former president was busy huddling up with a young staffer in the little bathroom inside the Oval office ???
Tony, you just proved the point "us libs" are making. you think the only way to solve a problem is to just blow $hit up. well talking seemed to work on this one...and when Jessie Jackson went to syria and got those guys out without a shot being fired, hmmmm that worked too. and the pirate situation......instead of just shooting and finding out who survived later.....Obama timed it waited till the time was right. and the guy we went to get lived. you see the pattern, if you're gonna do something in the interest of America make sure that no Americans get killed
chucky...
It doesn't take a military expert to understand that those marksmen had every intention to shoot all 3 pirates. The time to do that was when the Captain of the freighter jumped into the water....and he was fired upon by the pirates $ just plain lucky they missed...he gave up and swam back to them. When he was in the water "the time was right". Obama should have left that confrontation to the experts. The captain was lucky he did not get shot when he dove into the sea. This cannot really be difficult to comprehend, can it ????
No...it is not true that "the only way to solve a problem is to just blow $hit up" ( your words ). But make no mistake...these pirates WERE going to all be shot it the head by Navy marksmen...period. And I'm sure any of those marksmen and their commander would tell you that the Captain of the freighter was absolutely put into harm's way because of Mr. Obama's interference. You say that " if you're gonna do something...make sure that no Americans get killed ". EXACTLY RIGHT.
The only simple reason that American Captain of the freighter did not get killed was because the pirates were lousy shots. Period.
I want to see the cancelled check as to how much we paid them....AND, I want to know how much it cost for Clinton to go there and if the American taxpayer paid for it.
So much for America's stance on not negotiating with terrorists. Is there anything this administration won't do to further defile America? Those women knew the risk...they took it and got caught. They should have paid the price and we should not have gone to rescue them. Period. End of story. Now...the hikers in Iran are next? How much will Obama pay for them? It will never end.
Do you kick little dogs too?
While I am glad to see that the two ladies are now freed, I have to agree with your post. If you know you have no business being in an anti-american country then why go? These two ladies should have their passport revoked. Having said that, kudos to Bill Clinton and the administration effort.
Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things that we paid, say, $50k in expenses for Clinton to fly over and back? Or are we missing the forest for the trees?
Defile the US? Negotiating with terrorists? Get a grip on reality. My guess is that we provided an opening to begin talking again (yeah, I know it's produced nothing in the past, but it's better than not talking) and we also gained some intelligence that only a personal visit with that nutcake (not Clinton) could provide.
All in all, nothing negative from his trip and it's certainly a positive to get them released.
btco--those 2 women are not innocent little dogs--they are tough, aggressive journalists who knew exactly what they were doing and the risks to their families and all Americans--you have been had.
Steve, you are a real sweet guy.
Steve if I'm am not correct those two ladys are Americans and so are their families...and they pay taxes, so i dont think you paid for it.
Steve I have to strongly disagree with your post.What President Clinton did was a good thing.I bet he pulls the honeys out of the club,too!Seriously when 2 of our citizens are held by a totalitarian regime headed by an unstable (and possibly gravely ill) dictator the end result is what counts.Thank God these women have been reunited with their families!
Good Job Bill !!!
I think this is great news. I am sure their families are very happy. Some malcontents have to politicize everything. (friend request sent)
trm- COOL !!!! And the malcontents can go away....far far away......
That dog can still hunt. Bill is the man!
I am a right-winger and I got goosebumps and had tears of joy in my eyes when I found out the journalists were going home to their families. It gave me the same sweet feeling I had when Jessie Jackson freed those white fighter pilots--hope for mankind. God bless you Bill Clinton.
Love,
a right-winger with a heart :)
I didn't shed tears, but I was very pleased to see this happen. It was awesome and I thank Bill for going.
By the looks of things, you are a rare breed. Thank you for your compassion.
Maybe there's hope for all of us (Americans) after all...
I love Bill Clinton! I too was moved to tears when I watched the news this morning. Good job to all who made the release possible.
Sounds like you also have a brain, which is refreshing! Please help me understand the other Self-procliamed right wingers. Can these people really be that out of touch with reality. Can the glass ALWAYS be half empty? It must truly be miserable being stuck in those bodies! Then again, as the saying goes (MISERY LOVES COMPANY). You sound more like a true concervatve. Right wingers come off as irrational. You do not fit that bill. Believe me, there is nothing wrong with being conservative; right wing neocons, well we all are suffering from their legacy. God bless you!!!
I see this as a victory for everyone involved: the reporters, their families, the Clintons, the President, the US and even NK. Everyone seems to have won something positive from this incredible act of diplomacy. Nobody needs to die or have weapons fired before you can feel good about your country.
AmericaBev----you I totally respect and admire. Thank you for shedding politics for a moment to give credit where credit is due. I lean heavily to the left side but if all conservatives were more fair-minded like you, this would be a better country. I occasionally agree with some extreme right-wing columnists, rarely, but sometimes and when I do I admit it.
No...most of the time it's completely empty!
But yeah...it's nice to hear a self-professed "right winger" actually seeing something positive that was done by a Democrat. Now if they could just produce that Kenyan birth certificate...and not a forgery...
What next Bill, you going to ask Obama to pardon the THOUSANDS of women in OUR prisons who are convicted felons? Probably not, they are not members of the fifth estate working for your former VP....they are just mothers, daughters, friends and wifes of normal Americans.
What a crock....one has to wonder what the real payback is for him going there to free these two CONVICTED crimianls.
They are journalists.
So that means a free pass to go and do anything they want btco?
You called them criminals, they are journalists. Don't be such a wing nut.
They were convicted....makes them criminals regardless of what they do for a living.
willie, so you're North Korean ? Amazing. Fortunately, MOST Americans see this as good news, Bill Clinton doing a job any noble and decent man should do - the Right Thing. This is the REAL "Mission Accomplished". America looks good again. And a handful of noisy whiny wingnuts are not gonna take this moment away from it. And if my tax dollars went to any of this, it's money well spent.
No I am not North Korean.
Why is it good news that these two convicted journalists got freed? Why don't we close all our prisons and let all our convicted crimals free? To heck with laws, anyone with influence gets a free get out jail card anytime they want. What EXACTLY makes these two women special?
They are special because THEY ARE AMERICANS DOING THEIR JOB. willie, it's clear your IQ can be counted on your right hand. You wouldn't know what laws were regarding journalism if it bit your a$$. Here's a site for all you disagreeing nut jobs.
indenial@headupmyrectum.com Check it out. It caters to the small minded like YOU.
The Baron - Too funny !!!! Sad how little of the mind is used by some.
Sad how little of their minds these wingnuts use.
you people are extremely naive--those 2 knew exactly what they were doing when Gore sent them into NK. they put thousands of Americans at risk including their own families-we are now known as a kicking ground for rouge nations to use and abuse.
you people still seem to be stuck on that "you're either with us or against us" mentality...grow up and for God's sake turn off your radio and take a deep breath and make yourselves a sandwich!
Ah, the true confusion of the right wing! From one side of their mouths they call Kim Jong Il every name in the book, and from the other side they call Lee and Ling "CONVICTED crimianls (sic)" as if they had all the respect in the world for the North Korean system of justice. Speaking of "crocks"!
You can't have it both ways! You can't manipulate a situation to advance your own pathetic agenda by saying one thing, then doing a complete about face midstream! I mean, come on, get a grip! Step away from Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck! They've obviously done more damage to your collective thought processes than smoking serious drugs!
Sheesh...
Hey Mr. Clinton!!
How is that "threesome" going at 30,000 feet. My congradulation for you entrance into the "mile high club"
Just goes to prove there's no plumbing the depths of cheap in our society.
Hey Mr. Jeff, how's it feel way up there all by your lonesome flying high as a kite? Taken out the garbage yet??