In my area, guns are not allowed in public parks or public hiking/biking areas. I think we need gun-free zones in areas like this where there are children, families and individuals who go to enjoy nature. I too am perplexed why anyone would be hunting on a hiking trail? The article is rather vague, but it's a terribly sad situation.

Hunters, at least the ones I know, are familiar with the terrain in which they are in and should be aware of trails, roads and paths. I wonder how much experience or "woodcraft" this young man had - perhaps he should have been with a more experienced mentor?

I am a hunting super freak!!! From that perspective, it is a tragedy first and foremost. That said, the boy was to young to be hunting alone. Someone that young should still have an adult with them. As far as hunting in a park, people really don't let people hunt on private land. It is hard to get permission so sometimes when states allow it that's all you have. So you really cant say he shouldn't have been hunting there. Hunters have as much rights to our public parks as hikers. No hunting zones??? How about no hiking zones??? See what I mean?

The real question is why do they allow people on hiking trails during hunting season. I don't go into the woods where I live during hunting season unless I have on a bright orange vest. A little common sense goes along way. Convicting this boy of anything other then lack of experience is just as sad as the women losing her life.

Brian and Bravo – He was hunting with his older brother. The article doesn't say how much older.

Greg – People who walk around in the woods with guns are the ones who need to use common sense. It could be the victim didn't have any idea it was hunting season. It's not like football. Even if a person has nothing to do with football it's all over the media. Hunting? Who knows if, when, or where it's hunting season unless you're a hunter.

The boy has to live with this the rest of his life so getting off easy ... maybe in the eyes of some. Accidentally taking a life doesn't make one into a monster who enjoyed it. If this boy is truly remorseful- refusal to show mercy or long imprisonment him isn't going to make a better person out of him. All that will do is give a sense of vindication to the victim's family....

I accompanied my father on his hunts when I was 12 (did not carry a gun). I was 16 when I got my first hunting license. In my state- you had to go through a hunter's education course. They never depended on an individual to read the manual after they got the license (you couldn't be sure who could read and who couldn't) Also my family taught me if you can't see the animal... don't shoot - for 2 reasons. It might be a human and if it's an animal you can't guarantee a "kill shot"- you NEVER want to maim the animal (esp a bear) and you never want to accidently kill a human. I wonder if this was ever instilled in this kid by the parents/ hunting instructor.

Looking further into that area... it does seem the hunting and hiking is done in the same area- neither are restricted. This seems dangerous within itself because I know hikers that like to go off the main trail. Also the WA state laws allow a hunter as young as 12 years old to hunt UNACCOMPANIED by an adult. Now that is stupid...

So in this case I can't not say the total blame should rest on this kid... the state laws did not set up the boundaries or precautions. The law should have protected the hikers of the trail and not allow such young kids to go out by themselves. If they want the mountain lion and bears thinned out so there are less attacks on the hikers.. then close the trail... period during that time (that is what was in season at the time of the shooting). Instead they suggest the hikers wear bright clothes and make noise as they are hiking (such as wearing a bell).

A woman's life is gone. Her entire family and circle of friends must suffer forever because of the careless mistake of a teenager. Anyone who knows the makeup of a teenager's brain knows they are THE LAST people on the face of the earth who should be given control of a deadly weapon. The idiots who create gun laws should become a little educated before they make these decisions.

FOUR HOURS OF GUN SAFETY?? Why not just laugh in the face of the woman's family? We should be lining up people who are going to be the next victims. Accident or not, this young adult should never be allowed to own a gun again.

Greg writes, "Convicting this boy of anything other then lack of experience is just as sad as the women losing her life." A really stupid comment - in 30 days the kids out on the street - in 30 days the woman's still dead. Get it?

In response to "A Mature Adult"...Based on your comments....you're not as mature an adult as you would like to think. Yes, four hours is more than enough to cover the aspects of gun safety. Now.....continuous practice is a good thing as well.

Yes, the woman's family and friends will miss her forever. This young boy will NEVER forget what happened either. As an earlier poster stated.....this DID NOT turn him into a hatefuly thrill seeking killing machine. He too will live with this EVERY DAY of his life.

You are correct in saying that the folks who create gun laws should become more educated. If they were to do that, the gun laws would be less strict as those who are making the laws know NOTHING of what they're creating laws for. They're just ignorant gun hating liberals.

I would rather place a gun in the hands of an gun-educated 14 year old than in the hands of a hateful, criminally minded gang banger, regardless of age any day! But then, those are people who have no regard for human life or rules of society to begin with.

BRAVO CO. . . .They hunt for food as well....not just for sport. Meat obtained in the wild like this don't have all the man made chemicals added to them like the stuff you buy under that celophane wrap at the grocery store. And, hunting is regulated. If it weren't there would be an over population of wild game. That's why there are licenses, restricted seasons, and prosecution for poaching.

Before one can operate a Motor Vehicle, he has to be 16 years old, go through hours of driver's education, & pass a skills test. But, we hand over a high powered weapon, made specifically to kill, to a 14 year and say, "go shoot something, have fun".

Adults can be overcome with adrenalin with a trophy kill in range. Imagine the flush that 14 year old boy felt the 2 or 3 seconds before that woman died.

I don't think putting him in Prison long term would do any good for society, or for the family of the victim.

The only justice that could come out of this situation would be changing gun laws to minimize tragedies like this from happening again.

I know there are "some" 14 year olds with enough time in the woods with their responsible fathers to be a perfectly safe hunter. At the same time, there are 14 year olds who could drive a car, without incident. We accept the fact that a 14 year old can't drive because the law has been in affect for most of our lives.

I think it's time to consider if a gun could be as a dangerous as a car.

We hunt logging trails, fire-lanes, abandoned railroad lines and snow mobile trailes all the time during hunting season. At some point, the game you are hunting, deer or bear, will cross these areas and they offer excellent shooting lanes. IT IS THE HUNTERS RESPONSIBILITY TO HAVE A 100% CONFIRMATION OF HIS TARGET BEFORE HE PULLS THE TRIGGER.

Hunting 101---clearly identify your target before you fire. If there is any doubt whatsoever, DO NOT FIRE! Nothing can replace this woman's life or the pain this kid caused her family. This judge is being really liberal with the sentencing. I'd want a harder sentence than that. I would assume his record would be expunged at 21? Can he legally own a firearm again? Can he hunt again? Should a 14 year old pay for this mistake for his life? Interesting variables. Sorry just doesn't seem to cut it.

The NFL's Dante Stallworth got thirty days for killing someone with his car while driving drunk. What this kid did was an accident, can Stallworth say that ? Maybe but there is a national campaign against drunk driving and unless you live under a rock anyone from the age of ten knows that driving drunk is a bad thing yet Stallworth did it anyway.

Stan W - you make sense to me.

2cents

Agreed. But, Stallworth is a "celebrity". If we learned anything from OJ, or MJ, they don't have to play by "our" rules.

StanW

I would assume his record would be expunged at 21?

I belive it has to be.

Can he legally own a firearm again?

Once his record is expunged, of course he can.

Can he hunt again?

Refer to above.

Should a 14 year old pay for this mistake for his life?

If he is human he will relive that minute of his life, every day, every night as he tries to sleep, until he joins her.

I think some of you people are out of your minds. This was a KID who was hunting and made a mistake. If it was an area known for hunting, then the woman had no place being there during hunting season. If it was an area designated for hiking and rec. use, then they should go after the older brother if he was 18 or the parents who let the kids go into the woods with a gun in the first place. You really think some 14 yr kid should have to go to juvey (even for a year) for making a mistake while hunting? There are alot of circumstances that had to exist for this incident to happen, maybe you should be more critical of the system and not some kid.

I did look at the local papers that have more details.

He did take a hunters course at the age of 9.

According to witness was wearing a bulky black coat and a black billed hat.

The brother was 16 years old.

Anyone who gets a hunting permit should first be required to get a certification in hunters safety period.   No matter what their age.   After all there is a lot of not-so-bright adults out there as well.   Just look at the DWI or DUI records across the nation.

cmk --- the fact that the killer will never forget what happened and will live with it every day is vastly overrated. So what? You could say the same thing about any killing. The innocent human being who lost her life will not live with it every day. She is dead. Her life was very carelessly taken. By the way, the "overseeing "brother was all of 16 years old. Justice is not served with the hand slap meted out. This is the type decision that tempts families to take justice into their own hands and rightly breeds disrespect for the judicial system.

SD

In todays society isn't it always the victims fault?
Let's say they both shared the responsibility - she pays with her life - he pays with 30 days.

MKC

thanks for researching the additional information. it did clear up some issues.
did the article address whether this "hiking area" was off limits to "hunting"?

thanks

Wow. You know what? The kid was 14, for gods' sakes. People make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes cost lives. Sh*t happens, life goes on. I probably wouldn't have such a cavalier attitude about it if I'd known the woman, but obviously he didn't mean to shoot her and feels terrible about it. So just leave him alone.

Also, stricter gun laws and gun-free areas are not the way to go. It's just a small step to outlawing all guns altogether, and from there, how many of our other constitutional rights are going to be taken away?

If you don't think, gary, that living with something every day is punishment enough, I guess you've never done anything in your whole life that you'd like to forget but can't. Good for you.

The 2nd ammendment doesn't grant guns for everyone unless you are in a "well regulated militia"

DC v. Heller Scuba, yes it does:

We start therefore with a strong presumption that the Second Amendment right is exercised individually and belongs to all Americans.

Just because this teenager acted irresponsibly by not knowing for sure what he was shooting at does not mean that guns are the problem.

who hunts on a hiking trail?

A fourteen year old with an irresponsible guardian.

Why the hell does one want to hunt for a bear? I doubt that anyone is eating bear meat. So then it must be the thrill of killing something. Sad. This is so far from survival. Deer are another story. They breed prolifically (like humans), and so culling has been determined to be an acceptable method of population control. Too bad society has yet to come to grips with what OBVIOUSLY is the main cause of global warming, entitlements that are bankrupting us, using up of natural resources, and general pollution of the planet--the ever increasing human population. THIS is the 800 pound gorilla in the room that all but a few are unwilling to acknowledge or even talk about.

MKC, I doubt that people that go find living things and kill them(for sport) have much remorse to begin with. -Bravo Company

That is just as offensive as hell. You may not agree with those who hunt for big game for trophies or sport as you call it, and that's fine. But to suggest that those who enjoy engaging in that sort of hunting are the types of people that would not experience extreme remorse in the face of a tragedy such as this is beyond the pale of decency. It is a false accusation.

Saying such a thing reveals your own personal prejudices and ignorance.

strong presumption that the Second Amendment right is exercised individually and belongs to all Americans.

Presumption of a strong presumption. Rather easy to try to make your point by posting very brief excerpts.

Stand up, speak out

Rather easy to try to make your point by posting very brief excerpts.

You are more than welcome to read the whole thing if you like:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZO.html

Pasting the whole thing seemed tacky...

Who hikes during hunting season?

If I was hiking in the woods where hunting was allowed;

I would be wearing a BRIGHT ORANGE vest.

SO SOMEONE DIDNT MISTAKE ME FOR AN ANIMAL IN THE BRUSH.

I was in the boy scouts for a few years, the first time I shot a gun was in the boy scouts. We were shooting where there were Hiking Trails and other Hunters. ALL THE HIKERS HUNTERS AND BOY SCOUTS WERE WEARING BRIGHT ORANGE VESTS SO WE WOULDNT BE MISTAKEN FOR GAME.

Im the one whos puting part blame on the hiker.

Yes, hunting and hiking areas are in the same area. The trail is NOT closed off during the hunting season. There is no "buffer zone" from the hiking trail. Safety is dependant on the hikers to wear bright color clothing and they depend on the hunter to use binoculars to verify (in which the older brother claimed kept condensing up.) They leave it up to common sense to avoid accidents. There was an uncle waiting for the boys at the edge of the hunting area... he did not supervise the 2 boys. I also want to add since I didn't clarify.. the woman, not the boys, that was wearing a bulky black coat and a black billed hat. The boys shot her from a slope so visibility wasn't good and there was a slight fog.

Sadly it seems that if the boys were more sure of their target she would still be alive today and if the woman wore something bright (there's a reason hunting vests come in bright orange) they may have identified her correctly.

Oh and hunting is also a tradition in most hunting families. I know plenty of families that go deer hunting in the area and if they don't need the meat- they find either a family member or a co-worker that is in need and gives it to them, usually for the fee of processing the meat. Sport or not if the meat goes to those that can use it and needs it... I see nothing wrong with that... just don't waste the meat.

/agree

I do agree the hunters should have verified the target .

However its not like the kid who took the shot was trying to bag a hiker that day.

I believe the sentence was spot on.

You should always know your target, period, this boy did not.

I knew someone who was killed by a friend who didn't follow protocol, while hunting.

I'm astounded by the judge's decision and order that this boy take hunting lessons in the future. He killed a person. He should never be allowed to hunt again.

The adult with his party should be fined heavily. What a pathetic role model.

If you bag a moose out of season or out of of boundaries, whether your an adult of young hunter, you pay more heavily than this boy did for bagging a human, why is that? You can face a higher charge in some states for shooting paint balls within certain forest boundaries. I understand the boy feels bad...I think this should qualify for his learning the most harsh lesson of his life...that perhaps he should just give up hunting in his lifetime.

If a true hunter follows protocol there is no need for any person on a hiking trail to wear bright orange...again, the hunter should know their target.

Perhaps this judge lives in the city and doesn't hike!

cutter-

People do eat bear meat.

bdune,

"MKC

thanks for researching the additional information. it did clear up some issues.
did the article address whether this "hiking area" was off limits to "hunting"?"

Washington State Parks that allow hunting post hunting season signs at every entrance. The woman who ;lost her life lived near the park and knew it was hunting season. According to what I remember when the accisent happened she was not on a marked hiking trail. She was on a hiking trail but not a used one. Hikers are warned that there are hunters in the parks during hunting season and are asked by posting to wear bright clothing.

Both parties are at fault. The boy should have waited until he could get a clear shot of the "bear" and the woman knew better than to wear black during bear season and to walk a not well used trail.

And to st8,

"Before one can operate a Motor Vehicle, he has to be 16 years old, go through hours of driver's education, & pass a skills test. But, we hand over a high powered weapon, made specifically to kill, to a 14 year and say, "go shoot something, have fun"."

Actually most states allow a 16 year old to take a written and a driving test and then they turn them loose with a 3,000lb weapon. WA does require new drivers to take drivers ed, and some insurance companies require it for cheaper insurance.

This was a horrible accident. Both people involved are victims.

Cutter,

Bear is good meat and makes great jerkey. It is a little greasy if not prepared right.

Scuba,

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The Second Amendment allows for both a State Militia and an individual right to keep and bear arms. If you will take the time to read what the founding fathers wrote you would see their opinions on citizens owning firearms. The United States was not supposed to have a standing army. That is why when the Revolution was over the Continental Army was disbanded.

seems like drug violations carry more of a sentence than gun violations

Who the hell hiking during hunting season gosh. Here in WI, we can hunt in the hiking trail during hunting season. DNR will post big sign for hikers to wear blaze orange clothes or they will get tickets.

MKC, I doubt that people that go find living things and kill them(for sport) have much remorse to begin with.

Maybe you should do some research about sport hunting before you start making accusations.

This was a tragic accident. The kid was most likely inexperienced, they should have had a couple of experienced adults or two with them, maybe they should have also brought some binoculars with them as well.

If you would like to contact the court where Judge Susan Cook presides:

superiorcourt@co.skagit.wa.us

Jegosett

thanks for the additional info - that does address some of the questions I had.

It also shows that the story is a bit more complicated and leaves more room for this being just what is being said - a tragic accident.

thanks

I have seen some very large, hairy woman in my life; but none of them even remotely resembled a Bear??...happens every year.....Morons With Guns end up shooting other people; and then use the Lame excuse they were hunting and thought the person was a Deer or Bear....they usually get a slap on the wrist and their victims are either maimed for life or dead

Mormons get away with just about everything, Warren Jeffs was one of the few they actually threw in jail.

Brian (#1.5) - you make me glad I don't live in your city.  My city is a "no hunting zone".  Using your analogy, if they didn't allow people in a city, it wouldn't be a city.

I had a close call once deer hunting when a lady and her husband decided it would be a good idea to tromp around the woods during hunting season wearing black and brown jackets.Before I was able to determine that they were people they sounded exactly like a pair of deer trying to flank me and with there dark deer colored clothes they blended in until they were about 40yards away and come out in front of my stand.I then proceeded to let them know how lucky they were that I was an experienced hunter and didn't shoot at blurs in the bush and how close they were to not being a part of this world anymore and not in such friendly terms.People have and I mean have to know when you're local hunting seasons are going on and make sure if you are going to be brave(if that's what you want to call it)enough to go hiking during hunting season for God's sake wear blazed orange!In my state it's the law!

Cutter, I've had black bear before. Also alligator, rabbit, possum, raccoon, squirrel, grouse, groundhog, wild duck, deer, elk, moose, and so on. Bear is not bad at all.. plenty of meat as well for a poor family, something to consider in today's economy. A lot healthier than cows fed hormones, unneeded antibiotics, and other harmful stuff (see mad cow disease).

Also what happens to a teen driver that runs a red light and causes a fatal accidents? A person texting that causes a fatal accident? Some sentence are severe... 6 years or so and some are given the minium... depends on prior record, age, and (right or wrong) level of remorse the judge believes you show. Usually teens have a lighter sentence.

What might be a good community service might be to help those soilders coming home that have been wounded. To show the after affects of guns and how they change lives more than just seeing grieving families. ... shrugs.

I have to carry a gun when I go hiking now in order to protect myself from hunters. Maybe if I mistook a hunter for a bear I can get away with killing an innocent person who is someone's kid, someone's sibling, or someone's parent.

A 14 year old with a gun knows the difference between right and wrong or else they wouldn't have the gun. The 14 year old parents should be fined and sentenced to jail. You have to be 16 in some states to drive, should we be more forgiving if they speed and kill someone?

If the 14 year old had killed one of my family member, he better hope he never sees the light of day because I will ruin his life until he dies, unless he could come up with a good reason why he is still alive and my loved one is dead.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 14 year old turns out to be a serial killer.

Teenagers make many mistakes but how many actually took an innocent person life? Probably not many. This is not shoplifting or taking your mom's car for a joyride, or cheating on an exam, this is someone's life.

If you don't know what the hell your aiming out don't shoot. If you can't tell the difference between a bear and a human you are stupid and blind. If I am going to shoot something I better be sure I know what the hell I am shooting at or else I don't shoot.

Maybe if an actual bear was sighted in the same area as the hiker, then I might called this an accident.

All hikers need to carry a weapon for protection against hunters and not bears.

Tyler Kales was 14 and his brother 16. They were more than 100 yards away from the trail. Tyler was charged with 1st degree murder and could have been kept in jail until he was 21. Skagit County Prosecutor Rich Weyrich said the teen failed to follow guidelines in the state's hunting safety manual, including being sure of a target and what lies beyond it. They thought this woman was a bear from more than 100 yards away using only the scope of the rifle rather than binoculars - which IS against all rules - visibility was limited by heavy fog. Two idiots with guns!! To the hunters who think hikers should be 'more courteous', you're fools. A 30 day sentence for this crime is no punishment.

Pathetic. 30 days!?

My heart goes out to the family of the slain woman.

Demon your post shows just how little you know about teens, guns and the law. It makes you look like you hate kids.

A 14 year old with a gun knows the difference between right and wrong or else they wouldn't have the gun. The 14 year old parents should be fined and sentenced to jail. You have to be 16 in some states to drive, should we be more forgiving if they speed and kill someone?

If you were a judge we'd be seeing 6 yr olds getting the electric chair or needle if they picked up a gun or knife.

If the 14 year old had killed one of my family member, he better hope he never sees the light of day because I will ruin his life until he dies, unless he could come up with a good reason why he is still alive and my loved one is dead.

I hope you don't have children. You're talking about harassing, bullying and abusing a 14 yr old kid to death. And you will be charged and possibly sent to jail if you go after this kid.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 14 year old turns out to be a serial killer.

You really posted that? Boy are you way off.

Teenagers make many mistakes but how many actually took an innocent person life? Probably not many. This is not shoplifting or taking your mom's car for a joyride, or cheating on an exam, this is someone's life.

Obviously you never did anything stupid when you were a kid. And if you say you didn't do anything stupid or anything that involved someone getting hurt you are lying.

The kid feels bad enough, and the probation will give him time to think about what he did. In addition, he'll probably have to see a psychologist to deal with what's happened.

I know of several hunting accidents that resulted in loss of life. Years ago at RDU airport, a hunter shot at and killed a deer. The round went through the deer, traveled I can't remember how far, and struck and killed another hunter. Now, that's a pure accident. In VA, a hunter apparently fired at his buddy w/double 00 buckshot---another I shot at I don't know what. A couple pellets hit him in his hunting jacket and didn't penetrate. One hit him in the temple and killed him. This guy literally left him there---dying or dead----and it took months to unravel what had happened. They threw the book at him. I need to see the whole deer in my scope when I fire---not a piece of him---I want the whole critter. Accidents do happen, but would you hunt w/someone who fires at a sound or movement? Not me.

Demon,

Teenagers make many mistakes but how many actually took an innocent person life? Probably not many. This is not shoplifting or taking your mom's car for a joyride, or cheating on an exam, this is someone's life

"Teen Drivers are responsible for twelve percent of all road-related deaths, yet ... according to the Insurance Institute for Health and Safety as well as the CDC"

seems quite a few 16-19 year olds have taken innocent lives.

"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration notes twenty-three percent of teenage drivers in fatal car wrecks possessed a blood-alcohol level above the legal limit of .08. "

Yeah that is quite a mistake to make, they knew drinking was illegal and also that drinking and driving was even more illegal. Yet... mistakes happen. Do you think the kid with a hunting gun is any less remorseful than a speeding teen? Car and gun are BOTH weapons when not used properly or respected. Some of these teens don't get anytime in jail for killing someone in a car. It's called an accident even though they should have been looking. Some get years in jail for not looking. Laws cover sentencing, some states are more lenient for "accidents" seeing a difference between intentional and negligent, some states don't. Most sentencing laws do allow a range of time to be served according to differing factors... including remorse.

Hunters are not evil sinister humans intent on causing bloodbaths because they have a gun. Have you ever starved? Have you ever wondered how you are going to feed your kids when the money for food isn't there? Esp since food and heating prices have nearly doubled in the last few years. Some of grandparents survived the depression thanks to hunting, and then they past down the lessons, to ensure that if ever we get into such a bad economy... at least your children and their children will know where to turn to. Hunters operate on a creed... do NOT let the animal suffer, if you can ensure you can kill it.. don't shoot it. Sometimes a hunter misjudges- just like a person speeds.. both can end up harming an innocent life.

Also.. the kid may never pick up another gun in his life, may end up with depression. Not everyone is without a conscience- remorse is still alive today.. just not as sensational as a cold blood killer is

"A 14 year old with a gun knows the difference between right and wrong or else they wouldn't have the gun."

Bull@!$%#.

"A 14 year old with a gun knows the difference between right and wrong or else they wouldn't have the gun."

Bull@!$%#

Agreed.

Demon,

Just as the previous posters, I truely think your remarks are ignorant.

First off, why would you carry a gun to stop a hunter from shooting at you. Its not like his first shot is going to miss and there will be a grand shoot off between you and your 9 millimeter and him and his .308 from 200 yards. By the way, you'd most likely lose that one unless you are James Bond. The only defense is hiker education and hunter education laws. The boy made a hunting mistake, and should be punished, as he is. However, imprisonment for longer than that is unnecessary.

The 14 year old parents were not there, they were with the uncle who left them unsupervised. If anyone should be punished it should be him.

The quote about him ending up a serial killer. Do I really need to respond to that?

For people that wonder why he was hunting in a hiking area. Every state has different rules for hunting areas, but most states allow hunting in parks with hiking trails. Almost every of these states clearly posts when and when it is not hunting season, and advises them to wear bright clothing. Not to mention, I see hikers all the time taking game trails that they think are hiking trails. Smart hunters use game trails to find game, so please, if you are a hiker, be weary of the trail you are on.

As far as trying him as an adult. I would agree, if he was tried for premeditated murder. However, it was an accident, pure and simple.

Honestly, those attacking the boy and asking for years and years in jail need to think past your preconceived notions of the evil of sport hunters. Think about the circumstances and the actual crime. 14 year olds make mistakes, and he will be paying for this everytime he opens or closes his eyes for the rest of his life anyways. He is remorseful. I feel horrible for the poor lady and her family, but the boy(boy, not man) is getting the amount of punishment he deserves. Real criminals are on the streets, and this boy needs to not be grouped with real criminals.

People saying the kid should go to jail for years also need to put themselves in the kid's parents' place, as well as the woman's family's place, analyze the situation and then think again.

Maybe this kid doesn't deserve to be forgiven immediately, but he does deserve forgiveness at some point. The family has every right to be angry with this kid but being angry with someone forever is unhealthy. You're hurting yourself more than the person you're angry at if you hold grudges for long periods of time.

I question the parent's decision to allow a 14 year old to go hunting with a firearm without adult supervision. I question the decision to hunt on a popular hiking trail.

An average 14 year old would not have enough awareness and training to carry and physically handle a weapon safely on a hunt without adult supervision. Hunting is complex process. Just because a child can point and shoot a weapon on a range does not make them ready for hunting.

An average 14 year old would not have enough awareness to identify and stalk his prey prior to taking a kill shot. Hunting is a process that most 14 year olds are NOT READY for. Most simply point and shoot.

He has apologized and has shown remorse but that will not bring back the woman to her family. I think the parents should be held responsible for this one. Why in the world would a 14 year old want to kill a bear for? I hope this child relinquishes guns forever.

Mormons get away with just about everything, Warren Jeffs was one of the few they actually threw in jail

Auteur....do you actually read and understand anothers Post before you respond??..Mormons and Morons are one and the same to you maybe??..if so; thanks for revealing your ignorance AND intolerance

I was going to say I misread the post but since you decided to stoop to my level and call names, I'm just going to say that Mormons are morons.

Don't you just love hunters, they go out to feed their family, try to make a man out of their sons.......whoops...oh sorry.

Tom

The issue here is a fourteen year old kid with a deady weapon, not where he was at the time. Isn't that's where the problem begins?

Blame gun laws for this.This was a child with a gun..........

The kid and the gun are just 2 factors in this terrible accident. The victim's lack of bright color and leaving designated hiking trails were also factors.

Lessons that should be learn

#1 Always be sure of your target.

#2 If your binoculars and other instruments can't be used properly... don't hunt.

#3 Avoid hiking trails that are in public hunting grounds during hunting season

#4 if you just need to hike in the area legal to hunt during hunting season,

• don't use game trails, stay on marked trails.
• Wear bright clothing, even if it's just a bright orange vest and hat. You might look like a dork but hunters can see you a long way off.
• Never assume that the hunter will see you nor dismiss the fact that a wounded animal will come straight to the closest thing to lash out on.. if you are there... it just might be you

#5 Never assume your teen will hunt safely all the time.

MKC,

good summary

Brian-422798(1.5)

Bravo Company(1.6)

I totally agree with your post. I was referred to this article by another titled: "Child Crucified By Fatal Accident by Newsvine Commentors." Below is basically a summary of my two posts:

This child will be scarred for life and will have mental issues and possibly in the long run, commit suicide. I agree with Jason.S: the punishment upon his own mind is the worst punishment this child will live with for the rest of his life...the death of a human by his hands!! This will occur again until changes are made concerning separating the general public from hunters in some manner. Gun ownership, and parents giving their kids these weapons is continuously on the rise and hunting season will continue as well. Whether we like it or not, that's the way its gonna be! He should have had adult supervision and should have been properly trained. This is a tragic accident!! My heart goes out to the family who lost their mother,sister,grand-mother;etc. My heart goes out to the 14 year old as well.

This is a tragic accident but, doesn't anyone here see the hypocrisy in identifying any fault in the hikers?

No, I'm not saying we should demonize the hunters.

Thing is, the hikers are not responsible for having to find out if it's hunting season, what trails to stick to or, what colors to wear. It's a novel idea to do all this but, it is not required. The hikers were making use of public lands just as the hunters were.

It's like telling the victim of an auto accident that they should have been driving in a neon orange car on only certain roads and expect to be in a fatal accident.

This is what it is, an accident. The teen will likely have a lot of problems to work through.

Actually to embrace ignorance in a hunting area is risky. The hiking trails WERE marked with the fact that it is indeed hunting season, to hike at your own risk and to wear bright colors and stay on marked trails. The hiker choose to not only ignore the warning she wore mostly black outer clothing and hiked the unmarked trails during hunting season... so there is a question as to WHY she did that. She felt she's not responsible for any risk..

Even if all hunters obeyed the cardinal rule of verify your target... the fact that the hikers can come across a wounded bear or mountain lion... just because they weren't the ones to shoot it in the first place, doesn't mean that the animal isn't going to attack out a wounded rage. Hikers place themselves at terrible risk hiking during hunting season - let alone when they hike on on unmarked trail.

As a pedestrian in a city, it's risky to simply run across the street without making sure you are in the crosswalk/ corner and that you have the right of way. You can't tell a driver that he's 100% at fault when he's driving down the street and hit a jaywalker because he was looking at something in the rear view mirror. Both share the blame of the accident. Even though the driver needs to keep his eyes forward for the most part... the pedestrian better make sure the street is clear before crossing where he isn't suppose to cross. So even though I do think the hunter was clearly wrong.. she is responsible for the risk she placed herself in- she didn't go into the area not knowing it.

It's invalid to make the comparison that hiking is akin to walking on a street. Streets are the domains of vehicles, nature is the domain of all.

Again, it's hypocrisy to place any blame on the hiker. Those hunting season signs are not always cleaned up after the season is over and, they don't always list dates.

I'm sure you feel bad for the hunter, I do too. I lived in a small town for 12 years and hunting was the favorite pastime. The difference being, nobody in that small town would ever think to lay blame on the hiker.

This is an unfortunate incident that was made even more unfortunate by people blasting the kid in another seed. What makes it even more unfortunate is that you are all laying blame on the hiker, a person who may have never hunted in their life and probably does not know what to expect.

You need to see your hypocrisyt and change it. Otherwise, you're no better than the jackasses who said terrible things about the kid.

Dustin,

She lived at the edge of the park. The entrances were clearly marked. She had lived there for years. If you live near a park that allows hunting, you know when hunting season is. People park all over the place to hike into the woods. They bring their catch out to their vehicles. The woman was not blind to the season. She just chose to ignore the warnings and the law.

I lived in Washington for several years. I know how they post their hunting areas. She has some blame in this horrible accident. The boy is to blame on the most part, but she does have some blame of her own. It is no different than the way people talked about Michael Jackson 6 months ago and turned him into a world hero after he died. No one wants to say bad things about the dead. It is taboo. But the boy should not carry 100% of the blame, and he is not. That is why his sentence is so light.

What part of the law did she "choose" to ignore? There is no law saying that she can't separate from the trails.

I'm not one of the people who thinks talking negatively of the dead is taboo, I still think Michael Jackson was a wierdo.

Anyways, I've come to find out that you're all full of crap. She wasn't off the hiking trail, she was bent over on the trail as she was shot. See the following story:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008092032_hikershot05m.html

And as far as you saying that she lived at the edge of the park, Jegossett...she actually lived in Oso, 45 miles from Sauk Mountain.

If you're going to argue a point then argue it well, don't lie and stretch the truth. You people are despicable for lying about a woman who died tragically and senselessly.

Dustin..

It is not hypocisy (see the definition) to compare city streets danger to that of wilderness when it comes to placing ourselves into danger... that's the point I was making in a context that most people can understand... Not everyone can understand what it's like to hunt and would be incapable of placing themselves as a hunter due to personal perspectives... Like I said I was trying to point out the cost of ignoring our environment and surroundings and maintaining an expectation that it's everyone else's responsibility to ensure you (as in individual) doen't get hurt. Ignorance to one's own surrounding may not stop accidents but it sure in the heck reduces them.

Let me make this clear.... I don't blame her for her death (the kid is to blame for that) but she is personally responsible for taking the steps to ensure her own safety..... It was her choice to ignore the posted warnings. She may still be alive if she took the time to think about her own safety. She was not ignorant. When I said that witnesses had stated she was off marked trails doesn't mean she wasn't on a legitimate trail... it's common to have off trails that are not 'marked' but also game trails look like off trails as well. (well until you realize you real trail doesn't make you jump over fallen. The main reason for ensuring one's safety during hunting season really isn't just to warn hunters you are in the area but have you ever ran across an injured bear that didn't die on the first bullet ? (my uncle was treed by one for 4 hours) How about a scared mountain lion? They lash out on ANYONE that is in their area ... not the person who shot or is shooting at them. That reason alone one should not go off marked areas... personally I think it's a darn good enough reason to close the hiking trails during hunting season.... Common sense there.(but then again how many would feel their rights are being trampled if the county did that?) tehre are other artciles as to what witnesses said on the stand ... witnesses, including her son said she knew it was hunting season. Another witness said that she was wearing all black and another said she was not on the common trail that was not marked...

Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy typically comes from a desire to mask actual motives or feelings, or from a person's inability to conform to standards they espouse.

Dustin,

I was mistaken. I thought she lived near the edge of the park. My mistake.

I did not say or imply that she was breaking the law by being ooff of the trail. I did mean that she was breaking the law by refusing to abide by the posted signs put in place by the Game Warden and Park Rangers that stated that it was hunting season and people in the park should wear bright orange vests. (If a legal "request" or order from a LEO is refused it is a "crime", even a posted notice) Ultimately the boy is at fault, but the woman played a part in her death. She neglected/refused to protect herself by following the posted signs.

MKC, I know what hypocrisy means and, you apparently do not. All of you in here are attacking the victim and showing unending adulation for the hunter. You are all whining about what people said in another forum regarding the hunter yet you're all in here demonizing the victim and making up facts out of thin air. That is hypocrisy.

Could either you or Jegossett provide any proof of these witness events? The police irrefutably place the victim on the hiking trail, as evidenced in the link that I provided.

Neither of you have any standing here, you're simply lashing out because you're wrong and have a motive in blaming the hiker for this accident.

Also Jeggossett, in this nation we do not allow a single person to create laws. It is not a crime in any state to ignore a posted notice, from anyone. It is a crime to violate the law. Laws must exist for a crime to occur. It is simply a violation to ignore these warnings which can only lead to expulsion from the park.

Wearing orange is a suggestion, and an unlikely one to be posted on a hiking trail. If you have proof that such signs were posted, I will gladly review it. However, I REALLY doubt that such signs were posted on the trails.

Finally, neither of you have any right to tell another person how to protect themselves. Unfortunate things happen all of the time to people who may have prevented it by doing something different. Would you say to a woman who is mugged that she should have learned karate?

Actually I do know the meaning of hypocrisy- You are adding to the meaning in order to make it sound horrible. Dustin, It's YOUR opinion that it's wrong to say.. she should have been more careful since the county doesn't have hiker's safety in mind. I'm not attacking the hiker.. you might think I am- but I know.. I have every right to question why this woman choose to ignore all warnings.

really?.. If a woman was mugged.. my questions would be first.. where was she mugged, what time at night, and is the area known to be filled with muggers? NY Central Park several years ago had spots that were well known for their muggings. Many people avoided these area for safety reason... some did not and risked being mugged but most who got mugged figured that they would not be part of the statistics. (I guess they are special in some ways?) If she was in an area not well known to have muggers then I'd say poor gal.. hope they catch the jerk. NYC today, thanks to a mayor making safety a priority is safer.

Here's something I guess you don't get Dustin about me.... I'm a woman. I was taught in school, churches, and family that I am responsible for ensuring my own safety. Ever take a rape prevention class Dustin? That is the number one thing they tell us.. OUR responsibility for our safety.. not everyone else's. I have to make sure that I don't walk into an area without first looking, I don't assume that there are no dangers out there. We are instructed to ask for an escort to our car if it's dark. At the same time we are taught never to assume that witnesses would have the guts to help you if you are attacked..... I lived in a town where college girls were being raped, when they took ensuring their safety into their own hands.. the number went way down before they caught the guy... also I have been attacked by someone intent on raping me.. I was able to fight them off but I still can sit back today and say... I shouldn't have been where I was by myself. So you can go ahead and feel self-righteous and tsk tsk me all you want Dustin but I'll still question why she assumed nothing would happen if she didn't follow safely guidelines... at the same time as feeling compassion for all those involved.

Personally I also hold the country responsible for not shutting down the hiking trails. They assumed that if everyone followed the safety guidelines, no one would get hurt. So.. Good day

You're a complete and TOTAL moron.

The link I posted had actual statements from the police regarding the manner, this woman NEVER ignored any safety notices.

my questions would be first.. where was she mugged, what time at night, and is the area known to be filled with muggers?

This statement implies that you research issues before you state your opinion, which we have come to find is totally incorrect.

You could have saved yourself from looking even dumber by reading at least one of my last two posts and realizing that the woman in question made no mistakes regarding posted warnings.

Your ignorance is appalling.

And by the way, it is not acceptable to shut down hiking trails for hunting season. If it becomes enough of a problem, then the logical step to take would be to restrict hunting areas. Enjoying the use of state and national parks is for everyone, not just hunters. For that matter, it is questionable as to why we even support the practice of hunting on state property.

By the way MKC, try taking a reading comprehension class.

It is not hypocisy (see the definition) to compare city streets danger to that of wilderness when it comes to placing ourselves into danger

In this quote you imply that I consider your comparison to be hypocrisy. The following is the actual statement that I had made:

It's invalid to make the comparison that hiking is akin to walking on a street. Streets are the domains of vehicles, nature is the domain of all.

Don't try to act smart, you just irritate the people who actually are.

Here in PA, hunting is allowed at the state parks that I hike at---both archery and gun. It's archery only at the more heavily used areas and gun further out. The state parks are used by everyone---hunt, fish, hike, canoe. They are zoned, but hiking trails do run thorough hunting areas. Both parties need to keep their eyes open.

I've got to go a little further. When I hunted, I hunted on and in federal land. The Great Dismal Swamp, VA/NC border, Presquile Island, VA, Assateague Island, VA/MD border, and Ft. Bragg, NC. In some places, you get a map that shows you the hunting areas. Hikers can, but most don't get those things. One, a compass is invaluable. GPS usually can't get through the forest canopy. It doesn't work too well. Hikers just seem to get all over the place. Usually, we see them long before they see us and most of the time they don't. Point is---how do you mistake a woman for a bear? She'd have probably walked right past me and never knew it.

I hunted alone at age 14, although I was almost certainly better trained than this young man and hunted in much more open terrain. That said, we wore ORANGE in the woods during hunting season whether we were hunting or not.

In fact, at the beginning of hunting season, we avoided the woods until the city folks had shot their bag limit of horses, cows, goats, and each other. The bag limit on people seemed to be about one per year in our county.

Sad as the incident is, the penalty is about right. The issue of hunters and hikers using the same areas is a state concern. Training and appropriate supervision are the key.

It may well be, this young man, has lost his right to hunt forever; a second degree manslaughter charge and conviction, even if under juvenile justice, may prevent him for ever owning a firearm, under federal law. I wonder if the judge looked into that , when she sent him for hunting safety classes, hunting alone at 14, makes no sense.

saxon-

That is not the case. His record will be expunged at the age of 18 or 21 depending on state law. If a state level conviction is expunged, it cannot be used as the basis to deny the person any of his constitutional rights that a felony conviction normally would.

Von: I believe you are correct; however wasn't there a statue a couple of years ago, aimed at the gang killings, which preempted expungement in NCIC computer database ,where a firearm was result of a felony? I can't seem to find it.

If I remember correctly, there was a list of specific crimes to which the statute applied. I believe that there was also a list of circumstances that must also be present.

I have to carry a gun when I go hiking now in order to protect myself from hunters. Maybe if I mistook a hunter for a bear I can get away with killing an innocent person who is someone's kid, someone's sibling, or someone's parent.

A 14 year old with a gun knows the difference between right and wrong or else they wouldn't have the gun. The 14 year old parents should be fined and sentenced to jail. You have to be 16 in some states to drive, should we be more forgiving if they speed and kill someone?

If the 14 year old had killed one of my family member, he better hope he never sees the light of day because I will ruin his life until he dies, unless he could come up with a good reason why he is still alive and my loved one is dead.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 14 year old turns out to be a serial killer.

Teenagers make many mistakes but how many actually took an innocent person life? Probably not many. This is not shoplifting or taking your mom's car for a joyride, or cheating on an exam, this is someone's life.

If you don't know what the hell your aiming out don't shoot. If you can't tell the difference between a bear and a human you are stupid and blind. If I am going to shoot something I better be sure I know what the hell I am shooting at or else I don't shoot.

Maybe if an actual bear was sighted in the same area as the hiker, then I might called this an accident.

All hikers need to carry a weapon for protection against hunters and not bears.

I have been a hunter for many years. I never pull the trigger unless I am sure of my target. I have passed up many shots because I could not see clearly what I was shooting at. Non-hunters also do stupid things out in the woods. My buddy and I encountered several people out in the woods one time who were dressed top to bottom in camoflage during hunting season. They were not hunters and they blended in perfectly with the brush and trees. An accident waiting to happen. Anyone going out in the woods during hunting season, hunting or not, should wear the bright hunter orange clothing so they can be easily seen.

What are the training laws in your respective states?

I know that in Utah you must complete training and pass certification at a firing range before you can even take a gun in a state park.

Is that for a handgun? Rifle?

That sounds more like handgun carry permit laws. But does that include rifles too? I don't know of any states that make you take your 30.06 to a range before you can hunt.

Gianni while we are at it lets ban cars since the drivers of most severe accidents are under 21 and lets take a hint from the british media and ban knives. The boy  will have to live with this his entire life its a terrible tragedy for both families.

Well said, Ed, I totally agree with you!

The problem I have with this incident is don't you take aim which means you sight your target so how in the world could he possibly mistake a human being for a bear, sounds really fishy, I'm pretty sure this poor lady was not dressed in a bear skin, this ain't right. They very well could have let lose a cold blooded killer back into society.

Sam, actually I do believe no one under 21 should have a driver's license.

The problem isn't the guns or the cars. The problem is that children shouldn't have access to dangerous equipment. Because parents won't teach them a) how to handle the equipment and b) how to handle themselves.

I was driving by myself at age 15. My father loved me enough to start teaching me to drive when I was young enough I had to sit on his lap, and by the time I was 12, I was learning how to handle a car in a spin from ice or gravel and other dangerous situations. Today, after 30 years of travel, I've never had an accident, and it's not because the other guy wasn't trying.

Same thing with guns. I learned all the safety issues with a bb gun, long before I was allowed to use a firearm.

My dad was strict in certain ways, which annoyed me at the time, but as an adult, I deeply appreciate the fact that he was careful, and most of all, responsible. He had a high-powered job at Bell Labs and never came home without a briefcase full of work, but somehow he found the time to be a father.

Children can't learn if they aren't taught. It's a shame that the parents of this child were not punished for failure to do their job.

Ed the article said he was with his older brother although how old is anyone's guess.

A friend of my wife's 11 year old son accidentally shot & killed his best friend in her parent's bedroom while they were having a backyard cookout. Seems he left a loaded .22 rifle in his closet. This happened 15 years ago.

No one was held responsible for her death, it was an "accident". Yet, no member of either family, espeacially the father who didn't properly secure his squirell hunting gun when he came in from a morning hunt that day, will ever get over it.

fieldtheory

You were driving alone @ 15, and you say your father was responsible. I'm sure your father was a great person, but...

You can't responsibly circumvent law.

Although, your father may have been careful, and caring, allowing you behind the wheel without a license could have been as bad as this 14 year old's father letting him shoot the hiker.

Remove yourself, and your father from your statements; read them as if I posted them, and I think you'll see where I'm coming from.

Ed

There is currently no minimum age to purchase a hunting license in Washington State.

str8talk,

It was a different world back then. But even today, in some states 14 year old farm children are allowed to drive.

I didn't say I was out on the freeway. :)

I have to say though, to compare a well-trained driver operating a car one year before licenses are given to kids who are drunk and texting while driving and are unable to parallel park at the best of times -- to compare that to a child who is allowed to handle a firearm without adequate training -- that seems a tad extreme to me.

Hammers and Knives aren't made specifically to kill either - but people do use them for that. It's not about the instrument, it's about the PERPETRATOR.

Hammers are made to drive nails and build things, knives are made for cutting and carving - they make things of beauty and dice onions as well, but can also be used toward some pretty horrific ends.

Guns are made to kill, yes.. for food,,, for protection and self-defense... they are also used in roberies and other horrific acts. They certainly keep you just barely free enough to be able to post what you just said. All of these things require some Perspective and Accountability. Might doesn't necessarily make right, but it can certainly Enforce Right.

The issue here is not about guns and knives and cars... it's about accountability. This is what happens when our culture is more and more permeated with the notion that no one is ever going to be held accountable for anything.

Yes, it's a terrible tragedy, but clearly not pre-meditated and certainly not done with any malice or forethought.

And NOW - for you, Gianni - Whenever I hear someone talking about Americans surrendering any more Freedoms than we already have .. It makes my blood drop 5 degrees in temperature, and it also makes the purveyor of that though process my sworn enemy.

How utterly and rediculously "brilliant": If you can't think your way through a situation, or problem solve to the extent that Americans can continue to enjoy God-given freedoms responsibly - so just take them all away.

Given the annual statistics on hunting accidents, (which are shockingly low) vs. other fatalities in this country, and following your brand of logic through to its logical conclusion, we all might's well just take it ALL away and have the citizens sitting in front of their computers, or tv sets all day long - and outlaw water skiing, or skipping on the playground or every other thing that might Possibly cause an accident. There are better ways, you know... (and they are Not surrendering freedoms)

No wonder your comment was 'collapsed by the community'.

Seriously? Americans are so unbelievably ignorant! You give a 14 year olds guns to hunt and you are then surprised when people get killed?

And you think it's any different if you just hand a gun to a 14 yr old in Europe or Asia or Canada with no training? Any kid who is given a gun with no gun or gun safety training, or if the kid has a mental illness or disorder of some kind that people ignore, is gearing for a disaster.

Have you never heard of the child soldiers in Africa and the Middle East who are deliberately killing people with guns and other weapons? And those kids are being trained to kill. The kids in more "civilized countries" aren't trained to deliberately kill people, they are trained to shoot and or kill in self defense and or kill animals when they are hunting for sport or for food.

Comparing hunting accidents to car accidents is ridiculous at best.

I have to carry a gun when I go hiking now in order to protect myself from hunters. Maybe if I mistook a hunter for a bear I can get away with killing an innocent person who is someone's kid, someone's sibling, or someone's parent.

A 14 year old with a gun knows the difference between right and wrong or else they wouldn't have the gun. The 14 year old parents should be fined and sentenced to jail. You have to be 16 in some states to drive, should we be more forgiving if they speed and kill someone?

If the 14 year old had killed one of my family member, he better hope he never sees the light of day because I will ruin his life until he dies, unless he could come up with a good reason why he is still alive and my loved one is dead.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 14 year old turns out to be a serial killer.

Teenagers make many mistakes but how many actually took an innocent person life? Probably not many. This is not shoplifting or taking your mom's car for a joyride, or cheating on an exam, this is someone's life.

If you don't know what the hell your aiming out don't shoot. If you can't tell the difference between a bear and a human you are stupid and blind. If I am going to shoot something I better be sure I know what the hell I am shooting at or else I don't shoot.

Maybe if an actual bear was sighted in the same area as the hiker, then I might called this an accident.

All hikers need to carry a weapon for protection against hunters and not bears.

Quit spamming Demon.

A 14 year old with a gun knows the difference between right and wrong or else they wouldn't have the gun.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 14 year old turns out to be a serial killer.

Your ignorance is pathetic.

Legal scholars disagree about what right is protected by the 2nd amendment. Some have concluded that this amendment affirms a broad individual right to gun ownership. Others interpret it as protecting only a narrow right to possess firearms as members of a militia. Supreme Court decisions have not resolved the debate. I, personally can understand a person's right to protect themselves and family if an intruder tries to harm them or break into their homes; etc. I hear people say, "guns don't kill....people kill!" I am afraid of guns. It is something that goes back to my child-hood of one of my class-mates (4th grader) killing another boy (3rd grader) because he climbed in the mother's pear tree and took a pear! The description of details about the boy's fatal wound haunted me. I am now 60 years old. I still dis-like guns. The right to bear arms conversations become too heated. People just become extremely emotional about it. I have come to realize that kids have been going hunting with or without supervision utilizing bows/arrows, knives, & guns since the beginning of time. At one time this was a means of providing families with food, certain clothing, and, of course the possibility of wild animal attacks upon them. I think it would be difficult in this tumultuous climate we continue to live in not to own a gun. I wish people did not need guns but.......???!! As for the 14 year old boy in this article, again, I state it was a tragic accident that will kill his mental stability & possibly drive him to commit suicide. This will occur again until changes are made concerning separating the general public from hunters(and vive-versa) in some manner. Gun ownership, and parents giving their kids these weapons is continuously on the rise and hunting season will continue as well. Whether we like it or not, that's the way its gonna be!

It worked for Laura Bush.

Don't forget it also worked for Ted Kennedy.

It works at any age for Bill and Hillary

Toughguy, There is a big differance between murder and an accident. The boy will have to live with this the rest of his life. The woman's sister is a vindictive Biaaatch! If this happened to my sister it would have angered me too, for about ten minutes. Then being the person that I really am, my thoughts would have turned to the boy and how he must feel.

I would not call it murder if it was an accident. This was a case of lack of experience and mistaken identity.

Great Dennis...therefore, by your brilliant deductive reasoning the 14 old intentionally shot the woman.

You mistaken it by seeing maybe a black or brown shirt or the color of hair peeping out of the bushes while they were moving. If he was using a really good scope her hair may have been all he seen. It's very easy for the inexperience to mistaken a human as an animal in deep brush. esp with the adrenaline of the hunt coursing through your veins- It's known as "Buck fever". The trick of the matter is to take a breath wait til you see most of the body. If he did he would have known it was human.

Also a witness said that the woman was wearing a heavy black coat which would give her a much heavier appearance than a regular human silouette. Hence why you wait to see the target.. not take it through fog/ heavy brush.

Dwater - I don't think he's saying it was intentional, it was negligence and stupidity. 30 days is an awfully light sentence for the loss of a life.

DBowyer - Where does your sister live? I'd like to "accidentally" shoot her since it would only bother you for 10 minutes. Maybe we could hang out and BBQ afterwards. I'll be hungry after blowing her brains out. Since you are so concerned for the perp and not the victim I figure you'd be cool with whipping me up some burgers.

MKC,

Don't forget he was shooing from over 100 yards away.

Only in America would someone dressed like a bear go into the woods during hunting season and not expect to get shot!

Hey, a human walks on 2 legs and a bear walks on 4---kinda hard to mistake that whatever you're wearing. 100 yards is really not that far a shot. I'm an average shooter and I'll put 3 rounds in a quarter at that distance. Good shooters can almost put 3 rounds in the same hole at 100 yards. An experienced hunter would have probably passed on that shot. Fact is this kid hit what he was aiming at. I've said it and wrote it before. Once that bullet leaves the barrel, there is no "opps". It's done. This kid clearly didn't identify his target. Taking this shot was a fatal error. Yeah, he's sorry. Sorry will pass---death is permanent.

Stan,

If a bear is looking at/for something, they will stand on two legs. If they are getting berries from a tree or trying to scare off another bear, they will stand on two legs.

Oh and unless you have ever taken a life, you can't say that sorry will pass. You have no idea; so don't pretend that you do. It lives with you for the rest of your life.

I needn't pretend about anything. I am a veteran, 62, and started hunting at 16. I've seen and done plenty. How about you friend? How much have you shot and killed? Have you walked the walk or just talk the talk? Don't even remotely defend the kid. What he did was absolutely stupid.

Rock on Tom Lehrer!

4 hours of training is riduculous

Agree. And if one of the previous posters was correct the kid was only 9 years old when he was subjected to this intensive safety training.

Frank Bus If I was the judge?

You still would have no say in the matter. Let me give you a little lesson on how the criminal justice system works. The person who brings up the charges is the prosecutor, Now the prosecutor has sole prosecutorial discretion, in other words the prosecutor determines what the charges that he can prove in a court of law are and how much time or lack there of a person must serve. That said this was probably a plea arrangement which means that the kid pleas guilty to a lesser charge for a sentencing agreement. Now as the prosecutor you also have to consider the alternatives

JURY TRIAL A lot of money and there is NO guarantee that he would get a conviction and in Whatcom county my guess is that there is probably no way he would not get one hunter on the jury, and with the evidence he felt there was no way to get a conviction.

The Judge is only there to make sure no laws are violated.

Angry American, You must have never seen any bears, black or brown, in the wild or near your home or on your property.

There is no mistaking a bear for a human, period.

Hunters know their targets, fools don't.

I guess after Cheney shot his friend it has become acceptable.

E Escobar,

From 100 yards, in shrubs, in the fog, with a brown/black jacket on, a human can easily resemble a bear through a scope. I'm not arguing what the kid did was wrong and punishable, I am arguing that it is possible he scoped her and thought she was a bear. Yes, he should have used binoculars to verify his target. However, implying that he knew it was a human and shooting anyways is implying that he purposefully murdered her, which, under these circumstances seems absurd.

Bringing up Cheney's incident is your shallow attempt at support and votes by bringing up pass GOP follies. You really stuck it to Angry American, man, you are good. Lets go be liberal together.

Like I said, the child got punished as he should. He went through the American judicial system and is serving out his punishment.

PS, I've seen plenty of hikers while hunting that don't wear the correct colors or stay on marked trails. Its possible for hunters and hikers to coexist in the same area, as long as both parties respect each other and the rules that keep us all safe. Hikers, stay on trails and wear bright colors. Hunters, know what you are shooting at, and whats behind what you're shooting at.

I never for one moment implied this child knew he was shooting at a human, your right, that would be absurd. Ever since I was community collapsed without reason and later reinstated I don't really give votes or exposure much thought. My major concern is that people can say or write what they are legally allowed to and not collapsed by entities from outside this news service.

Even you have to admit that if he had accidentally killed a human with his vehicle he would have received a much more harsh sentence...right? I do wish this child wouldn't ever be allowed to hunt again. Be honest would you want him to join your next hunting party?

There is no mistaking a bear for a human, period.

To me, that implies that he knew what he was shooting at, which, like I said before, would make it murder. I'd be the first to say that he should be tried as an adult.

Since we keep making comparisons to driving, lets just take the metaphor a little further. A new driver, 16 years old is driving at night down a road, going 10 miles an hour over the speed limit. It is a dark road and some lady is wearing all black crossing the road. He hits her and kills her. A majority of the fault is placed on the 16 year old for speeding, some of the fault is placed on the walker for wearing all black at night while crossing a road. You really think they would put the new 16 year old driver behind bars for more than thirty days for this offense? As sad as that situation and this situation are, I truely doubt it. Involuntary manslaughter for a minor doesn't run a huge time in jail. Granted, the above is just a metaphor, and there are definately flaws to the comparison, but why not, everyone else was using the driving comparison.

As far as you getting collapsed, I'm really not sure why that happened, I like that fact that people can normally say whatever they want to say on Newsvine.

I think it was more of a pat on the back

not all hunters are dumb@!$%# you dumb@!$%#. but yes he should have idententifed his target and the woman should have been wearing orange

Yes it's true, ALL hunters are scum bags. Cowards too!

Unless you are a vegan or being sarcastic you are an Idiot.

Rick,

In WA you can hunt at 12 unsupervised. Is that wise? No. Does it happen a lot? No. But it IS the law.

The kid DID have a hunter safety course. I think he should have taken it again, since the first time was when he was 9.

You really shouldn't wish the death of a sitting judge. That does violate the TOS and is against the law.

It is also now legal in AZ for anyone with a concealed weapon permit to carry in any place that serves alcohol - bars and restaurants. Having been a bartender and waitress in the past, I have seen what happens when some idiot has a couple of drinks - no, they don't have to be what is legally drunk - and thinks he has been insulted in some way - the fists fly! Now the bullets may fly.

There are many restaurants that have bars in a separate but not fully enclosed area, and some of these restaurants are favorites of mine. Will I go to these restaurants in the future? No - too many who cannot hold their booze and it is not worth taking a chance - especially in AZ where you see almost nightly on the news that someone has been shot.

Having lived in UT for 18 years before moving to AZ, I knew that during hunting season you had better darned well wear bright orange if you lived in a rural area - and even paint bright orange markings on your cattle, sheep, dogs, and any other animals that ran around your place. Even then, some of those animals were shot by some hunter that did not take the time to make sure of his target.

My kids, both boys and girls, were taught to field strip and clean a .22 rifle (they complained but complied), worked through target practice shooting at a bar of soap so they could see the small hole going in and the larger hole coming out, learned the rules of hunting by memory and were closely supervised when they were finally allowed to hunt. Then they - not I - cleaned and cooked and ate what they killed. No trophy hunts.

Utahreb, it's not yet legal; Gov. Brewer hasn't signed off on it yet. The bill says CCW permit holders can carry as long as they're not drinking. I'm not sure if bars are included. I've seen the bill, and I haven't seen a distinction between bars & restaurants, so you may be right on that one.

I'm an AZ resident, NRA member, and CCW permit-holder and I'm totally against this bill. If you have a glass of something in front of you, who knows whether it has alcohol in it? If you order a beer, is the bartender/waiter supposed to frisk you to see if you're carrying? Plus - suppose you're carrying and drinking only soda or water. What's to stop the drunk at the next table from challenging you - "Oh, you think you're bad because you have a gun?"

There's so many things wrong with this bill. When I go to a restaurant that serves alcohol (I don't drink), I lock my gun in the car.

It's very simple - alcohol and firearms don't mix.

utahreb

unfortuantely when this same law was enacted in Tenn last month - Tenn became the 24th state with this law. AZ will/would become the 25th.

In Tennessee a new law will go into place July 14 allowing CCW permit holders to carry in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol. There is no provision about not drinking if you're carrying, so I guess you can get just as drunk as you like and still carry your weapon. It does allow an opt-out for those establishments who do not want firearms there. I agree with StoneCold, it's about the dumbest piece of legislation I've ever heard. Alcohol and guns are never a good idea. I will not go to any establishment that will allow this. There are just way too many things that can go wrong.

Drinking and carrying concealed weapons, Hmmmmmmm, COPS DO IT ALL THE TIME!!!!

It is great to hear from responsible gun owners.

I grew up hunting in Pennsylvania. My dad taught me strict hunting values that I still adhere to, including but not limited to never pulling the trigger until I positively identify my target and positively have a one-shot kill. After hunting public hunting lands in Alabama, I was almost afraid to go back in the woods. I watched a hunter unload his high powered semi-auto rifle at a group of deer running up a wooded slope. I know all he had was fleeting glimpses of his intended target. That kind of carelessness makes me cringe and get out of the woods as fast as I can.

How can we get laws that will prevent the careless use of firearms, whether it be hunting or self-protection? Alchohol and firearms mixed should be a first, most obvious ban and severely prosecuted. Everyone takes extreme stances on the gun control; either full ban or full permission. I think full responsibility should be the real goal. If an innocent person is killed or injured by a firearm then throw the book at the shooter and in this case the parents that allowed him into the woods. They were just as irresponsible as the boy.

CBWY777 - where alcohol & firearms are involved, I'd worry about the otherwise rational & law-abiding citizen whose judgment may be impaired, and may use a weapon that he wouldn't have used if he were sober. That MAY have been what happened in the incident you described - I don't know, I wasn't there.

I used to drink pretty heavily (21 years sober) and there were plenty of times I got pissed off at something when I was drunk, and woke up the next morning thinking, "Why in the world did I get angry over that?"

Alcohol impairs your judgment (I should know, I was drunk when I met my first wife) and should not be combined with firearms or motor vehicles.

"In Tennessee a new law will go into place July 14 allowing CCW permit holders to carry in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol. There is no provision about not drinking if you're carrying, so I guess you can get just as drunk as you like and still carry your weapon."

Bullsh*t

In Tennessee it is illegal to carry a firearm while drinking. Period. The Guns in Restaurants Law specifically states that the HCP holder is prohibited from drinking.

Before you drink the whole gallon of Brady Kool-Aid, make sure that you know the law you are speaking about.

HB0503
by Todd
Firearms and Ammunition - As introduced, authorizes person with a handgun permit who is not consuming alcohol to carry handgun in building where beer or alcoholic beverages are being served subject to posting of property provisions, and adds violation of possessing a firearm where alcohol is served as a reason for revocation of a person's handgun permit.

"Buy the way--you have a friend named Bill??"

Only for about a month - did the rest on my own.

Jegossett - my objections to guns in bars still stand. CBWY77, while your points are well taken, the fact remains that many people in bars have impaired judgment. People like you, who go in to play darts and not drink, are definitely in the minority.

Stone Cold,

I have no problem with your objection or anyone elses. My issue is when someone like Jazz states a blatent lie and tries to pass it off as truth.

I don't see the need to carry a gun in a bar and I both have a HCP and live in Tennessee. People (most) go to a bar to drink. If you don't drink, there is no real reason to go to a bar, unless you play darts, shoot pool or like to pick up drunk women. There is no reason to carry a gun in a bar in my opinion; but some may feel it is their right and it is.

I do agree with being able to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. I have no issue with carrying in Logan's or Applebee's. I don't feel all that comfortable with leaving my gun in the car while I go in and eat. There is a chance it can get stolen.

The main reason the TN legislature passed this law was to give some of the power back to the business owners. They can allow guns if they want them. If they don't than all they have to do is post the legal sign forbidding guns inside their business. Believe it or not some places actually like HCP holders in their place of business because it IS a deterrant.

Actually, I think you & me are pretty much on the same page on this one.

Just a wee bit off-topic but I agree with what you say completely. I bet there'd be a lot more people hunting and eating their kill if they were aware of the results of the whole corporate farm/ big-beef/ big-ag lobby. Pretty freakin' scary.

esbee, do you have any facts or statistics to show how many crimes were averted by armed citizens ?

Age has everything to do with gun safety! Children today grow up in a society where violence prevails on television, and is even worse when you look in the realm of video gaming. Teenagers are not wired to understand the long-term implications of their actions. Take a look at any junior high/high school as an example. It's great that your son has a "handle" on firearms, but that certainly doesn't make me feel any better about your child roaming around the woods with a weapon.

Furthermore, basically, what I am hearing from you is that everyone should wear hunter orange at all times in the woods. You can make mine a hunter orange bullet proof vest.

Ok maybe we should realize age has some factor. But education and experience are the main factors.We as a society need to get more parents involved in educating and mentoring our youth. Stop letting the system and twisted teaching get in the way of good ol' reality. I am also involved with a shooting sports group who runs about 150 kids through the range every weekend.With an enrollment of about 400 kids. There are kids from all walks of life and all economic backgrounds. All ranging from 9 to 19. All of them have completed the hunter ED course. And none of them have been involved in a gun accident. In fact all the kids who have completed the program from its inception. Have never been invoved in a gun crime of any kind. Education! education! education!

B-1210276, though I respect your statements, I must admit I disagree with them. Chad's son's gun handling education SHOULD make you feel better about children and teenagers who will at some point touch, see, or potentially use a firearm. The reason children accidentally harm and kill others using firearms is due to the media glorification of weapons and their lack of how to use a weapon. If all children were educated on firearms and how to properly use them, there would be less injuries and deaths. Many parents have no need or knowledge of firearms; therefore, their children do not have even the slightest idea of how to use them or the true consequences of pulling the trigger. Some parents do own firearms for protection but again, their children to do know how to use them. This is all fine and dandy; however, guns are in the movies and videogames children watch. Children have a natural curiosity because guns are "cool." They do not understand the capacity of what it means to fire a weapon. If they had education they would understand.

Personally, I truly believe adults are at fault for dumbing down children. Someone posted previously that people should educate children in light of them becoming adults one day. I agree. Yes, guns are powerful, "scary" and "adult objects," but children should know what they are, what they do, and how to use them. I am not saying this gives them the right to run around and play with firearms all day but there is a chance they may come in contact with a gun at a friend's house or god forbid even at school. By knowing what they do, how they work, and how they can injure or kill someone will give them the knowledge to make an educated, right decision.

Additionally, hikers should know when hunting season is and how to protect themselves. Period. They need to wear orange and familiarize themselves with hunting areas.

Truthfully, this is an awful story that we should not even have to read or make comments on. There are multiple factors at play that contributed to this tragedy and I am appalled at some of the statements in this posting area. This boy made a judgement call that took the life of an innocent woman. Life is variable and accidents happen in this crazy world. We can all sit here and play the "if," game but we cannot change the past. I think we all need to take a step back from the situation and say a pray for the woman's family and for the boy. The woman is in a better place and from what I gather, the woman would not want society to crucify this boy for his actions. He will experience enough pain for the rest of his life whether most of you believe it or not.

Chad

you made some very solid points and gave me somethings to ponder.

however, I don't see where it was necessary to bring liberals vs consevatives into the issue. not every discussion needs to be politicized

My son is 15 and can handle most firearms better than all you liberals regardless of age.

liberal=unable to handle weapons safely. Chad, that's utterly ridiculous.

How can they handle something they do not beleive in, not so ridiculous.

Just because one does not believe in killing does not mean one cannot kill. I learned how to handle a gun in junior high school and was on the rifle team for many years. It does not mean I believe in guns, wish to go hunting, or support gun rights.

However, it does not mean I can't or won't use a rifle to hunt or kill if the situation warrants it. I just don't see the need to. I also don't feel the need to stop others from doing it. But if hunters do want to hunt, they should know what they are actually going to kill... don't you think?

Gun "accidents" are two words that should never be paired next to each other... gun "stupidity", well that is another story.

Chad

you paint with a pretty broad brush.

I didn't realize hunting was for republicans only
I didn't realize gun clubs were for republicans only
I didn't realize that NRA membership was for republicans only

Guess these are just some examples of that Republican "Big Tent" philosophy...only you on the right would know or enjoy the use of guns for hunting, sport......

mb1234:

Nicely done and delivered in a mannerly tone. I tip my Brim.

When was the last time you let your teenage son go bear hunting with another teenager?

b dune( 19.4) wrote:

however, I don't see where it was necessary to bring liberals vs consevatives into the issue. not every discussion needs to be politicized

Agreed!! Comment above was just unnecessary.

It was a accident dod you understand that folks even yourself make what could be a tragic accident or mistake that could claim someone's life. Don't put yourself on the pedestal like your the top citizen in the nation.

The kid doesn't deserve to be locked up in prison with folks who know exactly what there doing when they kill someone. As tragic as this whole deal was it was a accidental shooting. If ever wreck you got into driving killed someone and it was ruled a accident do you think you'd be satisfied if they put you into the prison for 5 years damn well knowing it was a accident and death wasn't meant but it happened.

Grow up. As tragic as it is it happens and all we can do is educate people on paying attention and knwoing there surroundings.

Jason

I am certain you would show this same level of compassion if it was your Mother, wife, sister, loved one...

Richie (#20) wrote:

I really hate to say this but what if the Kid was black, do you honestly think he would get 30 days in juvenile detention, hell they would have tried him as an adult and through the book at him

I have already stated above (#1.71 and 3.18) my opinions concerning the 14 year old and the tragic situation itself; but I must be honest and say, I kept wondering if it were an African American, would the judge had handed down same decision? It is all too common that a prosecutor would have wanted to give the grieving caucasian family their form of justice simultaneously sendind a message to the black community. One always pray this type of thing does not occur as much as it used to; but it does occur.! A black child usually is charged as an adult and sent to prison damn near for life. I personally do not care what race the child would have been; I still stand by my posts above. Thank you Richie for sharing your comment.

So now you are going to make a racial issue out of this?

There is a difference between a kid in the mountains hunting bear and a kid in da hood hunting smack.

There are four basic rules of firearm safety. If these rules are followed (as they weren't in this case), there will be no "accidents".

JasonS.

Yes I WILL call the kid STUPID because he WAS at that point in time!!!

And yes I did do some stupid things in my youth... but guess what?!? I NEVER KILLED ANYBODY or Any Thing for that matter!!!

And to repeat for you what I posted in a reply above:

It doesn't matter where he was hunting or where she was hiking. It doesn't matter who else has gotten off on what. It doesn't matter if she was wearing orange or not. It was Not The Victim's Fault.

The fact is this kid killed someone and his only punishment is 30 days in jail and community service. That is not enough punishment for the crime. And yes, it's still a crime even if it was an accident.

A parent accidentally running over their own child while the kid was playing in the driveway... that parent will suffer the rest of their life. Someone raising a rifle, aiming very accurately, and pulling a trigger... I'm not convinced that person would suffer in the same way.

Read what some of the self-proclaimed hunters are posting here. That's the kind of person that would say things like "why wasn't she wearing hunter's orange" or "why was she on that trail", trying to transfer the blame to the victim, instead of asking himself "why didn't I know what I was really shooting at?"

I'm not saying all hunters are this way at all. I'm not that way and I hunt also. But I'm saying that judge doesn't really know what the kid is thinking.

A person's possible self torture is no justification for a light sentence.

The kid shot at something without knowing what it was. That sounds pretty stupid to me.

The boy broke two cardinal rules of hunting; know what your aiming at and know what's behind what your aiming at. If he could not distingush a hiker from a bear he also didn't know what was behind her and had no business firing. This was not an accident it was a deliberate decision to violate basic hunter safety and deserves more than 30 days in juvenille detention, 120 hours of community service and 4 hours of gun safety education. His record should not be sealed he should have to deal with being a felon for the rest of his life.

Here in Indiana, they do shut down parks for special hunts. Though they are not open for hunting the entire season, they are restricted to archery. I have been on many such hunts and have experienced Hikers/walkers using the facilities even though the park was closed. They park on the perimeter and walk on in knowing that the parks are restricted. They are a danger to themselves. The hunts are well publicized yet ingnorance is still 9/10 of the law.

What a relief knowing it may only be an arrow in my back, not a bullet.

I was eligible for Marksmanship at 6, couldn't take the test for several more years.

I learned never to point and shoot, unless I knew my target. period.

I received my first rifle at age 7, for Christmas.

The Uncle, older brother and boy shouldn't be allowed to hunt ever again. I wouldn't classify any of them as hunters and they should loose their hunting rights.

The basic tenent of hunting was violated.

Know your target, period.

To: StoneCold (#21.1)

To: Bravo company (#15)

I would like your opinion to below:

Dick Cheney shooting his friend in the woods comes to mind and "friendly fire" in boot camps & wars. Cheney was ridiculed....should he have been punished? Before I go further, I dis-liked Cheney before the shooting. He said it was an accident. He went on to continue being the country's VP. Was this not poor judgement? Should he have been flogged, crucified & fired as the VP of USA? Yes! I am aware he did not kill his best friend! What about soldiers getting killed by "friendly fire?" Have all the killers been ostracized and had a court martial & sent to prison or booted out of the service? Or does the military commanders try to explain to families that "turds happens" or it was an accident! Why not give some amount of imprisonment to person or person's that gave the 14 year old the rifle? I personally felt it was inexcusable for a so-called experienced hunter as Cheney was, to have shot someone in the face & neck that eventually caused that person to have a heart attack while hospitalized. Or do accidents happen? I loathe the thought that many of our military men/women are killed by this loose term, "friendly fire". What is so friendly about a soldier getting killed by his own? Or, am I being too harsh and/or naive? In these scenarios, should someone have paid dearly for these "accidents? BTW, Cheney just happened to be a Republican and the VP...it could have been Al Gore(Democrat) or any other Republican/Democrat governor, senator or congressperson! Politics is not the issue here.

The main reason we have friendly fire accidents in the military is lack of proper training. The liberals have seen to that. When a recruit is not afraid of his Drill Instructor knocking the sh!t out of him, he won't listen as though his life depended on it.

It would not have been Al Gore. He hates guns. He does not own any and wants to see them melted down.

When a recruit is not afraid of his Drill Instructor knocking the sh!t out of him, he won't listen as though his life depended on it.

I was not aware of Gore's hatred of guns. I was just simply trying to get across I was not knocking Cheney because he is a Republican. It could have been anyone no matter what party concerning his incident . Thanks for straightening me out. I hate guns as well. Also, your other comment concerning the "friendly fire" really bothered me even more because I never thought about the full affect a drill instructor can possibly take a recruit through. Seems as though the instructor may be tearing down that person's self esteem on occasions. Appreciate ya comment.

proteus: The Cheney incident was just as reprehensible and stupid as the hunting incident. Only difference is that no one died, which makes it slightly less devastating. The penalties for injuring someone are (and should be) less than killing someone. But we all know that politicians and football players are held to different standards than the rest of us peons. Far as "friendly fire" goes, that's a whole different situation, because your adversary is shooting back at you. Look at the Amadou Diallo incident in NY. The cops only THOUGHT Diallo had a gun and they went nuts. I've never been under fire, but I've done my share of reading about it. The adrenaline takes over.

My basic point is this: When you're carrying a firearm, you must constantly be aware that you have the power to take away someone's life with nothing more than a slight movement of your finger. Anybody who pulls the trigger without being 100% sure of their target should face the consequences and not use the cry of the American loser: "It was an accident."

StoneCold,

Appreciate ya input!!

excuse me sir but i have none several dozen hunters and none of them are freaks. my ex- husband, friends and my two children. my current husband also hunts. he puts food on the table for our family and he is the nicest man you'll ever meet. along with my kids. they are responsible hunters and it was a tragic accident. if you have actually met any real hunters instead of passing judgement on something you clearly know nothing about you would understand

I am both a gun owner and a smoker and do neither of these things you claim we all do. Sorry lynn43 but your rigid generalization gets you thrown into the pot with the rest of the bigots, racists, haters, and nitwits that cause most of the problems in America.

Dan, Thank you, you beat me to the response. I stand next to you as a smoker and hunter. By the way Lynn, my training keeps me from making this kind of mistake and I hunt mainly in a national forest and have to deal with hikers, 4 wheelers, and dirt bikes constantly running around me while hunting. I only have a few months per year to hunt and they have no closed season. I can park a vehicle on a trail to show where I am hunting and they just ignore it and drive right down illegal trails they are not supposed to be on. Maybe non-hunters need to learn a little courtesy.

Lumping gun owners and uneducated hunters in the same pot is not fair. I am neither, but I see where the generalization is headed. Hunting is pointless and no longer a necessity and certainly not a sport. It is a testosterone filled way to feel like the alpha male in a society that is finally accepting equality. Sorry all you white male hunters, this is your last frontier. Hope it makes you feel good. With that said, the mature non-hunting gun owners should not be placed in this category.

Don't get me started on smokers. I'm headed to take care of my mother who's dying of stage 4 lung cancer. She was nice enough to smoke around me my whole life and now I get to reap the benefits as well. As a nonsmoker, thanks. I hope you enjoyed the right to kill yourself AND OTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE AROUND YOU.

And I will consider you more an opinionated adult as opposed to a mature adult as you claim to be. My hunting is both sport and food. And as far as smoking many of us feel that the findings are well manipulated to fit an agenda which is taxes and votes.

"Hunting is pointless and no longer a necessity and certainly not a sport"

Your statement is immaterial, because hunting is legal in this country. I don't hunt, because I choose not to, but until hunting is made illegal, hunters have rights too. And why do you assume hunters are white males? Sounds a little racist to me.

Remember, opinions are like @!$%#s. Everybody has one, and most of them stink.

One can't legally drive, smoke, drink alcohol, join the military, or vote at 14, so which morons decided that it was OK for a 14 year old to be walking around in the woods with a rifle at that age? The kid should either have been banned from owning a gun for life for killing someone "accidentally", or should be made to join the marines when he comes of age (not optional), and sent to a war zone. Maybe then he would see killing for what it really is.

Most of us realize that he didn't go out hunting with the intention of killing someone, but there has to be consequences for such an action, and a 30 day slap on the wrist just doesn't cut it. He isn't going to learn a thing from that sentence.

The judge who doled out this sentence should be removed from his position, and given a psychiatric evaluation.

I, too, am a gun owner and smoker and am also a 72 year old female Independent (registered as an Independent for over 40 years). You neglected to indict the drunk drivers, the addicts, the gangs, the drug cartels in the U.S., the politicians and others who do things that can lead to problems. Enlarge your indictment to also include physicians and medical personnel who dole out prescriptions like candy and also the people who are taking those prescriptions.

It must be so nice to be "holier" than anyone else with absolutely no bad (according to you, in your infinite wisdom) habits.

It is people like you Lynn that make this world a miserable place. Your broad generalizations divide people. You should think twice before opening your mouth.

Oh and A Mature Adult - btw my fiance hunts once a year around Thanksgiving and this provides us food (venison) for an entire year. My apologies for not running to Walmart to buy that growth hormone injected cow meat sitting in a pretty little celophane package. If you knew what is behind the scenes at meat plants - you would go hunt for your food too. Before you generalize hunters as being "white, ego-centric, power hungry, males," maybe you should go out and talk to a group of hunters. Some are warped - I am sure but not all are. Closed mindedness is at the center of what is wrong with our world.

Stone Cold (#24.5) wrote:

but until hunting is made illegal, hunters have rights too. And why do you assume hunters are white males? Sounds a little racist to me.

Agreed 200%. When I think of golf; at one time it was a Caucasian male sport; now all ethnic groups & women are represented. I am not a hunter; but I know times have changed and hunters represent all ethnic groups (men/women) as well. You're correct, that coment is a racist remark.

Yes, you should thank the NRA. This is a very tragic accident, but put it in perspective. There are 100,000's of hunting and shooting hours logged each year and there are very few tragic accidents. Thanks in part to organizations like the NRA that mandate gun education and also responsible hunters and gun enthusiasts that promote safe handling to their younger peers. Would you prefer that this young man and his brother sit at home and drink, do drugs, hang out in a gang, try and get themselves some "babies mamas" before they get too old? They were enjoying one of America's oldest past times and unfortunately an accident happened.

How do you know they aren't hunting and doing those things? What makes you think if they weren't hunters they would do those things? Maybe they could play baseball instead. I've never hunted and I'm certainly not in a gang or a drug user.

I agree with you, but I was trying to say is that hunting is typically a wholesome past time unlike the other things I mentioned. JUst like in Little League, accidents happen even though everyone knows the rules. You will always have accidents.

The kid should have verified his Target is drilled into your head during hunter safety class. However the woman should have been wearing Orange. Its rally a said situation for all involved

I'm sure his life is allready ruined why would you torture him like that.

KYLOMG, That's exactly the point. Your finger should not touch the trigger until you have verified that you have a legal target and a smile on your face knowing you have a perfect shot. I have let a lot of deer go following that rule but I'll keep doing it that way. And that's how I trained my kids.

why let him hunt again he should have been band for his life.

"I'm sure his life is allready ruined why would you torture him like that."

You might be right about his life being ruined, but his victim's life is OVER. Sounds like she got the @!$%#ty end of the stick on that one.

no death jam. ban, ban, ban,,,, sorry my middle finger must have flinched.

it's almost on the same level as killing someone while DUI ?