This is a rediculous assumption.  This would have been news worthy if any pastor had been tasered by police for apparently no reason other than the ego of a cocky police officer who cared nothing about the life of another person.

Jeania, may not be to far off the mark, I don't remember seeing anything in the main stream media about the white pastor that was dragged and beaten by the police, 60 miles from the Mexican boarder in Texas because he would not allow his vehicle to be searched for illegals without probable cause. and nothing was found.

Unfortunately, the likelihood that this kind of incident would occur maybe much less if the pastor were white. Wonder what is the stat on this.

Yes, jbrownski, that's what I was thinking of. I had read about a month ago about that incident, and it was plastered all over the Alternative News, but you never heard a word about it in the Mainstream Media. Why is that?

When Reverse Racism is pointed out, the Libs "attack the messenger" and call him/her "Racist."

Lee,

You're wrong on that one. I saw the story on CNN and I know Keith Olberman talked about it on his show.

You all are assuming that the pastor came out to "help".  I am a Christian, so I am for sure not prejudiced in any way against the pastor, but I have worked in emergency services for many years and have seen family members and pastors interfere in police business.  I have seen them step way beyond inquiry to the point that they needed to be arrested for interference.  It is not clear either way what happened here, but to assume at this time that the officer was way out of line or the pastor was way out of line is irresponsible.

Everyone jumps to conclusions, and starts making racial statements. To me the main point is that he interfered in police business for no good reason. If he simply went over and said this person is part of my church, may I be of assistance, then backed off.

This article has no real information to determine if the police were justified or not. Of course the family and congregation are on the side of the pastor, just as we would expect that the sherriff would be on the side of the officer.

Generally speaking, when a person is tasered by an officer, the officer states at least two times that if the individual does not decist they will be tased. And remember, tasing is meant to be a less than leathal alternative to a choke hold or the beating of a person with a baton.

I dare say that a person being arrested is not the business of the church. If the pastor wants to know what is going on he can ask questions after the police have concluded their business. Also remember that the police are under no legal obligation to explain anything to the pastor.

This was a local story. What is left out is the the church is a haven for illegal Hondurans, the pastor is an "activist" for illegals, and the guy stopped was an illegal.

The police are on high alert around Houston, just last week a cop was killed by an illegal, the second in a year.

Actually, if people behaved themselves they wouldn't have to be tased. Contrary to the belief of many who are accustomed to lawlessness, it is not tolerated by our society. There are those who try to get away with what ever they want to, and when they are checked in front of their peers, by the police, of course this reaction is expected. It's just "the man" coming down on a poor minority, OR it's someone who broke the law and rebuffed the police because he doesn't know any better. Guess what....he does now.

I forgot to mention---the cop killed in Houston last week was Hispanic, and the earlier cop was black.

Illegals are equal-opportunity cop killers.

I think thatthis is more of a story because he was a priest, your own racist views show.

I don't think we should go around tasering people just because their status in this country is undocumented. Nor do I think it's fair that more people of color are tasered than anglos.

However, I don't for a second believe that just because someone has a "religious" profession they should be exempt from following the instructions of the police.

It seems to me there is significant question as to whether the police acted in good faith as well as whether this man refused to back down when asked by the police to remove himself from the situation.

You are a complete a racist. The "regular" people???? Don't you mean white people?

I think this story attracted attention because the victim is a pastor. Latino's get tased all of the time. It's not everyday that a pastor gets tased.

You are an ignorant person and your comments are inspired by intolerance and hatred

How is he/she racist for saying regular people? People like you always say people are racist because they say anything other than african american, or caucasian, latino or whatever.. You're the idiot here, not them.. Anytime someone says something that pertains to race idiots like you cry racism! Frankly the rest of us are sick and tired of hearing it.. If you're a latino and are an illegal from mehico you can take your ass on back there because we dont want you here!

Now whine about hatred............

I agree with onealpha this would have been news worthy anywhere in mainstream America where secularism is a blatant attack on anyone anywhere who are Christian and automaton-899551 is correct Jeania your comment truly does imply a specific segment of the populace. I am not an advocate for the illegal immigrant and believe all should be deported and allowed to use the legal process for entry however to assert or imply the outcry for justice was based on ethnicity is wrong. There is but one race, the human race, with many ethnicities and unfortunately based on choice the human race has been divided into two segments: believers and non-believers, Godly or Satanic and apart from that unless there are some significant internal organ differences than obviously we are all one and the same. It is bad enough that there are those in federal, state and local government from the existing administration, Supreme Court and beyond that seek to abolish civil rights but why are there among the average citizenry adding fuel to fan the flames of indifference. jeania you are wrong and when you hate to say something, don't say it.

Should have minded his own business. The person in the traffic stop didn't need his "assistance".

It always amazes me how people nowadays like to blame the police for everything.

People always want to ask after the fact if it is justified. Here is my take on the situation (which I will admit is simplistic). If an officer is forced to wrestle with you, you should be tased. If it takes more than one officer to wrestle with you, you should be tased several times. If you are obstructing an officer from performing his duties and will not decist, you should be tased. If you do not follow the instructions of the officer as he or she is giving them, you should be tased.

when being arrested, you are not going to change the officers mind. Its not like if you talk to him he will be like, your right, im going to let you go. You are going to be arrested. Now the question is do you go the easy way or the hard way, because either way you are going.

if you get involved with police business when it is none of your business and refuse to let the officers do their job, you just may get tased.

being tased is better than being beat with a night stick or being put into a choke hold. the effects do not even last as long as being pepper sprayed.

I have tryed not to say anything about Jeania's post because I thought by now people would read it for what it was.... Her using the word "regular" person was nothing more then comparing an illegal Mexican person to an "regular" AMERICAN! Her post is not Racial unless you want it to be, just the way you want to interprute what you read.

It has been stated that 40 of the congrigation came out after the paster went back into the church. Why? was this supposed to be a show of force to the officer?

He should have never interfered with the Police doing their job, that's one, two, the police need to get control back, they have a lack of respect problem, brought on mostly by bad cops, but who tasers a pastor??? They both lacked respect for each other.

This is just another example of police aggression, arrogance and abuse of authority.

As long as the politicians excuse police abuse this will continue to happen but when the cop is held responsible for his actions we will see a winnowing of the bad and unstable cops from the force.

The net result of this winnowing will be a better more effective police force instead of a lot of news stories about such afore actions by bad cops.

There are a few issues here.  Golly who invited the police officer onto the church property.  Private property without an invitation is trespassing.  I won't touch the tasering crap.  Ever heard of separation of church and state.  Police have no authorization to be on church property unless they are invited.  Ever heard of sanctuary whereby local, state, or federal officials have no right or authority to enter the premises without an invitation.  I am new to TX but gee TX cannot violate federal law whether they want to or not.  Federal law suit and charges are coming.  That JERK who tasered the 82 year old got away with something so all the jerks are coming out of the wood work with their badges drawn.

Police have the right to pursue anyone, anywhere at anytime! They Don't need permission from the Church! Go back and re-read the laws of pursuit!

We really need to start treating tasering as assault and battery, and if the tasing kills somebody, it should be treated exactly like a policeman shot somebody. Policeman who would not club or punch somebody seem to think that tasing is not as serious, but it is. A policeman who discharges his taser should be suspended until an investigation is completed just as if he beat somebody, because it is exactly the same thing.

I don't see what difference it makes that he was hispanic. Why didn't he just stay out of the whole traffic stop thing and mind his own business? What was he thinking going back into the church and coming out with 40 people?? "Let me go get some 40 more people to come with me and see if we can make this cop feel threatened." He was interfering where he did not belong. Go pray for the guy getting the ticket and back off. Righteous indignation. I just love it. Whatever happend to "render under Caesar. . . ? Seems like he was meddling where he didn't belong and suffered the consequences. I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! Just sayin'

im not shocked at all that someone started playing the race card... by the way my last name is rodriguez so now you have to come up with a different excuse as to why you were called out on playing the race card.

the traffic stop began without the pastor being involved and it should have ended with the pastor not being involved. im sure the people of that church would be upset if someone interupted the pastors message on a sunday morning. if the pastor had questions he should have waited till after the traffic stop was conducted.

7matt...

It is assault and battery .. just try it on someone and you can expect to be charged with a felony.

What it doesn't seem to be considered is "excessive (deadly) force" when used by the police. It does seem that the police would rather use the tazer than other less harmful physical restraint at times. And I am sympathetic to police being injured (or anyone else for that matter). But 50k volts should not be the response of first resort, as it often appears to be.

30 witnesses will be difficult to overcome...

"Don't Tas me, hombre!!...

The Cops tased a 72 year old woman not to long ago, this doesn't surprise me. I just hope these officers don't tase their pets(dogs)(cats) or children for that matter if becoming unruly Im waiting to hear some of those stories.

Whatever you do, Don't provoke an officer to use the taser. The Bart incident in Cali where the handcuffed individual lying on the ground on his stomach was shot in the back when he jokingly questioned the officer "are you gonna tase me" on News years Day ! What happened to that Fine upstanding member of society ?

If this is like every other traffic stop I've heard of, the driver chose where to pull over, not the cop. The guy who got tased was not following police instructions, plain and simple - nothing to do with race, religion, or anything other than, as many others have noted, interfering with police business. A cop won't tase someone unless he's really pushed to it. I think having a mob brought out in an attempt to thwart legal authority, coupled with physical resistance, is more than enough justification to use non-lethal force. Unless I hear more, I am 100% on the cop's side.

All officers have to keep in mind that they are all under surveillance these days with technologies the way they are. Cell phones with cameras, videos and such. And it's about time that the average citizen had something that counters an officer who would lie just to get a conviction. When was the last time a courtroom took a charged parties word over that of an officer? Beyond a reasonable doubt my a$$.

I have an idea how to keep all precincts in top working order. Anytime one officer makes a mistake in the way they perform their duties, none of the officers in that precinct gets a raise. That alone would build up their own checks and balances. Matter of fact, that should be instituted in all aspects of public service. Judges, prosecutors, politicians, even your lowly clerks.

Secularism is an attack on Christians?  Lol, okay.  I'll play.  Christianity is an attack on intelligence.

Some people say that it is none of their business, however, they are the public. It is public business. So it is their business.

Again we have A TRAFFIC STOP that the police push into something larger. Why does it matter if a crowd of churchgoers is around the officer? If the police do not like the public witnessing their actions, then we have a much larger problem.

It all boils down to the police thinking that they ARE THE LAW, instead of public servants enforcing the law.

To interfere with a police officer, you have to prevent them from doing their job. Talking to them, or advocating for another person does not prevent them from doing their job. They can ignore you just like any 6 year old little leauge player being heckled at the plate.

The police try to have a tough guy image, but they can't handle someone talking to them?

Here's the real question. Is an officer's desire to be in control more important than public safety?

Everyone has heard of "law and order". But legally, isn't their duty limited to the "law". "Order" always seems to be the goals of some of the most repressive societies.

In many communities, the police have lost the respect of the people. You are not going to get it back by tasering a priest.

When the officers felt that they could not handle the situation, they should have called for backup. Crowds are peacefully controlled all the time. Even in heated protests, such as at abortion clinics.

There was no indication of hot pursuit. They had their suspect. All they had to do was wait out the arguments of the priest. Patience is in short supply in our society, I understand that.

I still don't understand the pepper spray. Were the police being attacked? I've heard no word of that. Pepper spray is a defensive WEAPON. If you sprayed a cop with it, they would likely shoot you. So clearly the police believe it to be dangerous.

So here we are, yet again, in a situation that was made worse by the police. Were the citizens blameless? Probably not. But the citizens did not pepper spray the cops. They did not taser them. From what I can tell, all the actual damage was done by the police.

Cooler heads need to prevail in these situations, unfortunately, this is just more proof that the cooler heads are not those of the police.

I don't care what color he is if you push on a cop, yell and get in the way, incite more people to the incident, and the flee the scene you are going to get your butt in trouble.

Cops are out of control, but so are people - many pastors think they have the "free pass" card especially when they are dealing with their congregation, after their service - they have spoke the "word of God". eep

Great Post Ryan in Texas. Nothing more poignent than the truth!

I have to disagree with some of you. You do not approach a police officer when he is doing his job. If he had been out there giving a beat down instead of a traffic ticket I could see intervening.

Whether you like the cops or not, not all of them are bad. They have a dangerous job and people approaching them this way is totally inappropriate.

If this pastor had just let this cop do his job it wouldn't have escalated and at the very worst the other person would have a citation.

You are completely wrong. This is in the news not because it was a latino, but rather that is was a pastor. Im not even religious, but the cop should have had a little more respect for a man of the church.

This is a ridiculous story, and I hope the cop has his title stripped.

Your kidding right? Men of the church kill, rap, molest, cheat on their wife, steal and just about any other form of wrong doing and they should be held above the law? I am sure that your the one completely wrong!

Agreed, papaloco. A member of the church should be treated no differently than any other member of society. They are not "above the law."

Only "spike 322306" had put this situation into perspective. I don't know where "Ryan from Texas" is from, but it's not the Houston area.

I think it was June 25-26, 2009 that a "sting" operation went down with a senior police officer, Henry Canales, being caught "doing things the right way". He made the mistake of giving the benefit of the doubt to the suspect, who shot him down in cold blood. The shooter was a one "Roberto Pedroz-Carrillo" who also has a brother on the run, but his family stepped up to insist that he would never confront "the laws".

Carillo had plenty of people scream what a good man he was, as they bore their "gangsta" wear. The police legally searched his home to find out that he was a major distributor of stolen property, as in - he was a "big box store" of stolen property. From the pictures, he had at least 20 refrigerators, 20 generators, stoves, disposals, etc. stored on his property with tags still on them. There wasn't a "good thing" about this man, other than he was friendly and kind on the surface.

On the other hand, we lost Henry Canales. He gave his life to his family, his passion of racing cars legally, and his time to teach others how to drive his passion home. He was also a police officer. This guy spent time with kids teaching them to build cars and taught them very practical lessons that were constructive.

In the climate of Houston, which Webster is a part of, knowing that we have lost a terrific police officer to three illegal aliens, I don't find this incident one bit surprising. The pastor was known to harbor aliens from Honduras. The pastor was known to be hostile. Only now that he has been rendered docile is there a chorus of innocence. I don't think he was innocent at all. I think he begged for this attention.

And no-one has looked at the person that the police officer was attempting to pull over. It could very well have been another Roberto Pedroza-Carrillo.

automaton-899551 Wow, it's obviously apparent that you do not know Jesus. He would never condone your profanity, and unprovoked verbal attack. Remember, He said that "because iniquity will abound, the love of most will grow cold, but he who endures to the end shall be saved." I was wondering if I had the kind of love that endures to the end. Thank you for encouraging me with such a shining example of love grown cold. May God grant you repentance.

For the rest of you, please do not judge all Christians by automaton, and those like him/her. Some get it, some don't and some are simply struggling. Yet I hope that even those furthest away from Christianity are able to spot the imposter.

As for the news story, I am thankful that the police will be there when I need them, and they deserve my respect for that. The pastor probably should not have approached the police officer, since his attention needs to be on the vehicle stopped, and the surroundings, and not divided with someone interfering. However, having said that, personally, what we've experienced, is police can be more like jack-booted thugs. My wife, severly disabled, swerved on the freeway trying to plug in her cell phone to charge it. The car behind her (ahaaa!) called 911 and reported a drunk driver. The police officer that stopped her asked her to walk a straight line, but with peripheral neuropathy, you can't do that. So, he handcuffed her (think of this being done to your mom) and put her in the back of his police car. She had bruises all up and down her sides, on her arms, and on her back. Looked like he beat her with his nightstick. End result, she plead guilty to a reduced charge of negligent driving, and we're paying off the $1,500 fine, after we paid off the $1,250 to the attorney. Leaves a sour taste in the mouth, yeah?

Hey, Levi777 ----- Was your wife too disabled to pull off to the side of the road to plug the cellphone into the charger? Even talking on a cellphone is dangerous. Fortunately, states are rapidly coming to that conclusion and making such activity illegal. But in your case, it sounds as though you are making excuses for the dangerous behavior of your wife on the roads where I drive. I am thankful that a motorist called the authorities about her driving. By the way --- MOST, IF NOT ALL, police would follow a reported "erratic" driver to see for themselves before thy pull someone over. No sympathy here, pardner. Next time --- pull off to the side of the road before you '"charge" your phone. P.S. ----- What did the judge say when you offered that explanation?

I guess even a "DisabledVeteran" can be an ass. Typical conservative with no compassion; disabled woman makes a mistake that costs her $2750, and this poor excuse for a veteran wants to heap on his own condemnation. May he be fined by the police for for some trangression related to his disability.

Tasering = beating. Beating somebody up is not a proper response if the police didn't want to tal to him.

The headline should have been "Policeman Assults Pastor, Pastor Hospitalized".

disabled woman makes a mistake that costs her $2750,

I have to say, I'm sorry she's disabled, however a couple things about this:

First, cell phone mishaps in cars have been known to cost people their lives so I would say she should be thankful.

Secondly, If a person fails a field sobriety test, their always made to blow in a tube on the scene for a prelim BAC. And if she was disabled and not drunk, why did she have to plead down anything when an intoxilizer would have shown her with no BAC? Without a certified showing a BAC in violation of the limit, you have no DUI case, not even Impaired Driving.

Why were the police making an arrest on PRIVATE PROPERTY? I don't think the police can arrest anyone in a private parking lot in CA.

Taking it further, why did the police taser a pastor on PRIVATE PROPERTY?

If the pastor was a CA resident and his church was in CA, we would not even be having this discussion and I sure as heck hope the pastor gets compensated for this ludicrous behavior.

This was a local story. What is left out is the the church is a haven for illegal Hondurans, the pastor is an "activist" for illegals, and the guy stopped was an illegal.

Spike - I am curious. Are police allowed to arrest people for a traffic infraction on private property in TX?

I say his comment is right on the nose. The police officer may have overreacted to a crowd of angry illegals storming out of the church. I say park an ICE van in front of the place and the church will be empty.

Posters are so quick to condemn the cop for being on "private proptery." He was making a traffic stop! And most roads are public property since they are paid for with TAX DOLLARS - something that illegals don't pay, might I add. So the road is not church or private property, and the cop had every right to make a traffic stop as long as there was some cause - and let's face it, every one of us could get pulled over for something.

Also, obviously no one here is a cop. It doesn't matter if it's a "routine" traffic stop, a cop never knows what's going to happen. He can't afford to be distracted by a interfering pastor. And he certainly won't like being surrounded by 40 people, even if they are church goers. Why? Because it can lead to a dangerous situation, and cops generally like to diffuse dangerous situations, and disperse crowds, so they can do their job.

Bottom line - Don't interfere with cops doing their job. Yea there are some whacky cops, but all the more reason to leave them alone, don't you think?

one more notch in law enforcement's belt

Hey Tyler! the entire section of posts for #2 are gone. Did you squash all when you collapsed papaloco?

Posters are so quick to condemn the cop for being on "private proptery."

Alk

A parking lot is NOT a public road.

The headline of this post states:

a traffic stop in the church parking lot.

WHY WAS THE COP MAKING A TRAFFIC STOP IN A CHURCH PARKING LOT WHICH IS PRIVATE PROPERTY?

I am 100% behind the idea of deporting illegal aliens.

However, if a cop does not follow due process of law, any arrest will be thrown out of court, so, is it worth it to make a bogus arrest if it will be thrown out?

Civil rights are never convenient. The guy who is saying or doing things that nobody disagrees with doesn't need protection. The time when civil rights matter is in the sort of conflict this case represents. A taser is basically a portable torture device, as is pepper spray. We cannot condone law enforcement that tortures people.

Last week there was a similar episode outside San Diego where a Democratic fundraiser was attacked with physical violence, pepper spray, and intimidation of witnesses. A gathering of about 30 people, mostly women and mostly on the high side of 50 was attacked by 8 squad cars, a helicopter, and a K9 unit. The incident was initiated by a politically-motivated "noise complaint"; but the real "crime" was a gathering of Democrats in an area where right-wing thugs control the police force.

To empower police to do anything they deem necessary is to give up all your civil rights, not just against unreasonable search and seizure, but also free speech, freedom of religion, and free and fair elections. Civil rights are a set, sacrifice one and they are all diminished.

Karen-

It doesn't matter that the driver pulled into the church parking lot. Although the parking lot is considered private property, the infraction occurred on the roadway which is public property. If the officer initiated a traffic stop and you pull off the roadway into your own driveway, the officer would still be within the law to approach you and conduct the traffic stop. This is the law in all 50 states including California. Otherwise, you would have drivers pulling into Wal Mart's parking lot to avoid a citation. The law deals with where the infraction occurs, not where the driver being stopped actually stops for the officer.

For example:

A driver is "clocked" by radar for speeding. The officer turns around, turns on his emergency lights, and pulls in behind the offender. Upon seeing the officer's emergency lights, the driver pulls off the road, into the parking lot of a McDonalds. The officer is allowed by law to conduct the traffic stop in the parking lot, even though it is private property. EVEN IN CALIFORNIA

My wife and I are going onto the front lawn of our Private Property to have some sex. When the cops show up they can kiss my lily white @$$ cause I'm on Private Property!

Von

Thank you for the clarification. And no thank you for the insinuations you made.

It was a church parking lot. Churches ARE sanctuaries in certain situations in NY.

When I made the statement about CA, I apologize. I was thinking that a cop does not just drive into a church parking lot and arrest someone.

The way the headline of this vine reads - one could assume that the officer just drove into a parking lot and arrested them for a traffic stop in a parking lot.

Where I live, we have stop signs in parking lots and I was thinking about a cop busting someone for not stopping at one and how ludicrous that idea was because it's a parking lot.

It was a church parking lot. Churches ARE sanctuaries in certain situations in NY

Inside the church maybe but not necessarily the parking lot.

We are all passing a lot of judgment here with very little to no facts on the situation. As usual, MSNBC does not really give us any useful information. We do not know what really happened. We don't know why the driver was pulled over in the first place. We do not know what was said when this pastor first went out or what was said or done to make him go back inside and return with 40 worshipers. We do not know what was said or done before the officers used the taser. Actually we don't know anything but the little teaser bit of information we are given in this article.

The main question should be,,why did the pastor go out at all..it was none of his business....if he had stayed in his church he would have been fine..will anyone really know just what went on or will just the members of that church..who will protect their own be the only ones heard ? Am sorry this pastor was hurt...but in reality..he hadno business interfering.

Disabled Veteran observer, uh....no. My wife wasn't/isn't too disabled to drive. Even so, the police officer (which was the point anyway) could have treated her more gently. As for you, sorry about your disabilities. Too bad they made you sour. Have a nice day.

Pastor my butt. The guy sounds like just another thug thinking he has some rights to interfere with cops doing their job. He sticks his nose in where it doesn't belong. He pushes a cop then goes and he gets his posse from the church to overrun the cops. They call that tending his flock. Not a very smart thing for a man of the cloth to throw his "flock" into the fray. Of course they got hosed down with pepper. And have you ever seen a latina "help" to her husband while hes wrestling to get away from the law? "Help". Thats funny. And the 30 "witnesses" who rushed to their pastors aid? Yeah, they're credible. I have to wonder why they stopped the original church member, and what ws the outcome of that? Is there any video of this thing anywhere?

And I'm always amused now when the folks bring up tasering like its the most dangerous thing that could happen. I wonder whether these folks defended Sarah Palins fight against the Alaskan Trooper who tasered that child for the fun of it. Apparently tasers must be different in Alaska, because that was not a problem. Now it is. Maybe they did defend Palin, I don't know.

Hey Dylan923, yes, my wife and I had the discussion about plugging in her cell phone while driving. She won't be doing THAT again. She blew 0 on the breathalyzer, but failed the field sobriety test because she couldn't do the straight line. So he took her to the hospital for a blood test. The blood test showed trace amounts of class 4 narcotics which she takes by prescription. She had not taken the evening doses yet, and so while she was driving, there was very minimal amount in her system. Also, there is no legal limit for drugs in the system, like there is for alchohol. However, it was $5,000 to fight the charge, and we didn't have it. The deal we got is the only deal the prosecuting attorney would accept. This was not justice. This was abuse of power. What an eye opener. You can have justice if you can pay for it. And sometimes you can even escape justice if you pay for it (OJ Simpson). It's all about money and what it is you need, and forget the truth.

Why was there a traffic stop in the church parking lot?? I don't think that you or I know all of the facts, so why jump to conclusions like questioning his "immigration status"?

Doesn't anyone think that the use of a taser is "excessive force"? Doesn't anyone question the outright brutallity of the police in America anymore? Or have we become so complacent that we accept the police state that the US has become?

1. RESPECT the police at all times.

2. DON'T touch.....EVER!

3. Don't get in the middle of a problem that is non of your bizzwax!

4. Learn how to read without twisting what people say into some sorta racist BS!

Now go away and learn!

Or ... let me proffer a scenario ...

... Perhaps he saw a congregant with the police and was concerned if they were ok and went to check.

... police officer, in typical "fright or flight fashion when I see a mexican or black", got loud, crazy and abusive with him, yelling and screaming ...

... Pastor tries to retreat from this crazy-ass fool

... crazy-ass fool cop leaves the original "criminal alien" and persues new "criminal alien" into the sanctuary, and in cop-movie fashion, tries to kick the door down (probably could have simply opened it) {waka waka waka}

... cop sees forty-odd criminal mexican aliens in a crack house fronting as a church

... Police saw his ass may be in a sling, escalated the situation and even tased the pastor.

... wife, turned into the She-Hulk and menaced the officer (later changing her story to concern for her husband)

Let me hypothesize further ...

It is POSSIBLE (we shall see) that, because they are mexicans, a couple of cops who would NEVER fabricate a cover story, will be believed over over forty witnesses.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Michael Buie,

That scenario you offered up sounds about right to me! I've seen it happen on a couple of occasions from the East Coast to the West Coast, Down the Dixie Highway, back home!

This is a direct result of the militarization of police departments across America due to the "War On  Drugs" Tasers were supposed to replace  firearm use for situations where the suspect posed a great harm to himself and or the officer i.e. suspect threatening suicide, suspect has baseball bat so on. Now they are pulled out anytime the officer feels like it.     

Speculation because if the incident took place on public property there may be some validity to allegations that the pastor interfered in a police matter however as indicated the matter took place in the Church parking lot that is private property under the jurisdiction of the church and pastor. All other aspects seem to be speculative and clearly prejudicial warranting legal action. In terms of biblical principle forgive and forget sometimes issues or incidents have to be confronted first and dealt with and once resolved correctly forgotten. It is ludicrous to imply that it is okay for you to attack, causes physical harm and you are forgiven this would cause anarchy throughout the land. For the record, not even Jesus Christ operated in that fashion, there are many instances where he took immediate and spontaneous action and though he called on the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do does not imply that there will not be consequences for the actions, there is once to die and then the judgment for every act and the lack thereof committed in this life that will determine the final location of each and every one of us, heaven or hell.

automaton said "

Doesn't anyone think that the use of a taser is "excessive force"? Doesn't anyone question the outright brutallity of the police in America anymore? Or have we become so complacent that we accept the police state that the US has become?

a taser is NOT excessive force. A blunt blow to the head with a baton is excessive force. Using the baton to choke an individual is excessive force. Pulling your pistol and shooting someone is excessive force.

prey tell what should the officer have done. Ordered donuts and begun a philosophical discussion with the priest to determine if the individual being arrested truly deserves to be arrested.

John L Harris Sr, let me educate you on a few things;

1. I am an American and I am 100% against any form of illegal and undocumented people from entering the States no matter the color of their skin.

2. You have taken words and made what you wanted out of them, see post 1.21 and as for your remarks" papaloco you are as bad as Jeaniaand are either among the illegal or a supporter thereof" just proves to me that you can't comprehend what you read.

3. Police have every right to call the shots on "private property" if the person they are pursuing end up there, besides the fact that a church parking lot is about as public as it gets and there is no such thing as "jurisdiction of the church and pastor" unless the law changed and the church and pastor are above the law!

If it is true that he pushed the officer, ran into the church, and returned with 40 back-up congregants, I would say that was threatening to the officer.

Amen! If I was that cop and saw a group of 40 people coming towards me I'd feel threatened too. The pastor should have known better than to interfere he should have stood back and calmly observed. He had no right to go back into the church and incite his congregation to go outside to confront the officer which he knew would inflame the situation further. As far as I'm concerned he got what he deserved!

papaloco - spoken like a true COP

a taser is NOT excessive force

B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T!!!!!

Have you ever been tazered by the police?

Indeed. People die all the time from tazer shocks, especially those with weak hearts. Do the police research medical records before firing away? Hell no. There is article after article in the news of elderly people shocked with tazers.

When police first started using tazers, they painted us pictures of massive, 250 lbs crack dealers hopped up on PCP with no safe way to detain. No we find they are regularly fired on the elderly and mentally incompetent.

And they should not have to. This pastor had no place mediating police business even if it was church property. And I believe it also to be true that his interference got him his just rewards. No BS about race, illegal aliens, or nothing outside of stupidity. He played with fire and got burned. Maybe if a few more idiots die after inviting a nice tazing more of them will stop interfering with police. For gods sakes that is a tough job and it shouldnt be made any more difficult by third party idiots who cant get over themselves.

Don Trillest: If people die all the time because of being tasered when they have weak hearts it is not the problem of the police. Perhaps people with bad hearts should not give police a reason to tase them.

heck, some of the people in here would be tased for the way they are acting.

automation

Maybe if you clean up your act you would be taken more seriously!

Maybe the cop observed the person that he stopped in the church parking lot breaking a traffic law just before the person pulled into the parking lot. that is why he maybe got stopped there.

Tasers are supposed to be non-lethal, and yet they do kill people. That alone would make me think it should be used as a last resort (well, not last, they have guns).

I think we forget that the congregation is the public, and the police are public SERVANTS.

Do they act like servants? Do they give the respect that a servant should give to their employers?

Who do they protect and serve? Themselves? Many people express the opinion that if the police officer feels "threatened", they can do anything they want. What about the public? Who do you think the congregation will believe did the most to protect and serve them? From what I'm reading, it looks like the priest.

Police kill citizens at a ten to one ratio of police deaths. You are ten times more likely to be killed by a cop. That alone should tell you that it is just as reasonable for a citizen to feel threatened by the police. And beatings and taserings go thousands to one. How many stories have you heard of a police officer being put in the hospital because a citizen tasered them?

Let's not forget that the police escalated this from a discussion about a ticket to what we have here. Clearly, if the police want to "be in charge", then they will have the greater burden in the matter. But I suspect that many find it easier to excuse their actions than to hold them to a higher standard.

You sound like an anarchist. Public servants yes..sworn to uphold the law ...bigger yes...I do know know what happens in Texas Ryan but where I come from....it is a crime to interfere with police..An when one commits a crime he deserves to be treated like a criminal.

Ryan in Texas: You are clearly not from the Houston area.

Tempers are running very, very high right now. We just lost a great police officer to something lower than I describe (SLD).

The SLD's family insisted that he was a great guy and did everything right. For starters, he was in the country illegally for 16+ years. He dealt in stolen goods and was pretty much the godfather of stolen goods. His brother is still on the run for murder and his accomplices are also illegal aliens.

What do we do now? You have all the answers, so where do we go?

1. Not enough information to make a determination in either way.

2. I think in this case automaton-899551 is Partially right, to label him/her a racist would require a full lifestyle of racism, it would have been better to say the statement was racist. these things can bring out the worst in people, even good people.

automaton-899551

You are a complete a racist. The "regular" people???? Don't you mean white people?

3. I think in this case, Momus2009 is saying a racist thing, apparently white people walk in lock step (or would you prefer goose step)

NOTE; I do not label him/her a racist. That would require a full lifestyle of racism. The point being that the label of "racist"is thrown around too easily. these things can bring out the worst in people, even good people.

Momus2009

I just love how white people always talk about someone pulling the "race card" when they do it without even thinking about it. automaton is right! You are a complete racist!

What is this bs about race..can anyone honestly verify that this jackass pastor was tazed because he is a latino. This is an issue interference with police business. Thats it. If you have proof that this is about race please substantiate. If not, stop the spin.

PS. Mr. Fire them all....you cannot claim that anyone is a racist because they used the term "regular people".thats ignorant... regular people could mean everyday people like you and me who know to mind their own business and are not criminals. and whether or not you simple mind can absorb it. the "race card" does get played on a daily basis by many pathetic intellectually bankrupt people who cant get past the past.

Lee - you make a good point.

What get's me is Houston is a sanctuary city. The police didn't even check to see if someone was illegal when they committed major crimes and were in their jail.

But because 2 cops were killed by illegal aliens, NOW it's a priority to look for them. And we both know if it was 2 regular citizens who were killed, they would not be looking for illegals.

I just wish the police would treat a death of a citizen exactly like a death of their own. Sadly, it seems that they do not.

This is why I say that the police need to be held to a higher standard. They need to remember that we are all equal under the law, and we all need to respect each other. They can't play favorites and then wonder why the community doesn't reach out to them.

I know they deal with scum, but not every person that they ticket or even arrest is scum. I would doubt that we would think this preacher was scum if we knew him.

Look, we still can't even ASK the legal status of people when they go to the hospital or when they bring their kids in to schools.

We do need to penalize the employers of illegals. Why was the idea of making it a felony to knowingly hire an illegal shot down in Congress?

My idea has always been to just make the employers pay for all government services that the illegals receive. Public school runs $6000 - $10,000 per yer per student in public schools. Maybe they have a couple of kids. With all Gov't services that may be $20,000 a year for that one illegal worker. I would doubt they would hire them if they had to pay what they cost. Suddenly, US citizens would look like a bargain.

Mr Robulator; I Didn't call automaton-899551 a racist, I said "I think in this case automaton-899551 is Partially right, to label him/her a racist would require a full lifestyle of racism, it would have been better to say the statement was racist. these things can bring out the worst in people, even good people."

I take criticism well but also insist that it be on point. Speaking of being on point, the main point I was trying to make is that the term "Racist" is thrown around too easily and frequently.

Ryan. The police are not here to SERVE you. They serve the city and the state. You are not above the law. If you interfere you should be tased.

otherwise, what is to stop everyone from interfering with the police always? is the officer not allowed to do anything until you hit him. of if you are small perhaps you are allowed to hit him because you swing like a girl (not you specifically). No. if you are interfering what you have done is basically put on a sign that says please tase me.

3. Police have every right to call the shots on "private property" if the person they are pursuing end up there, besides the fact that a church parking lot is about as public as it gets and there is no such thing as "jurisdiction of the church and pastor" unless the law changed and the church and pastor are above the law!

I am not certain about this. I call many incidents of Law and Order where the defendant ended up in a church and the police had to stop pursuit.

Before you tell me that Law and Order is a TV show, I will tell you that all the writers of the show are ATTORNEYS and the head writer is a FORMER MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY.

I am totally against illegal aliens being in our country.

I had to say that before telling the jurists on this board that we have this concept in this country called DUE PROCESS OF LAW.

Many of you are justifying the police actions because the priest was harboring an illegal alien who committed illegal acts. Excuse me, but that is for a judge and jury to decide in a court of law.

The police ARE NOT judges. They have rules to follow in terms of enforcing the law.

I am not so certain the police was acting legally in this instance which is why I keep asking the question as to whether police can arrest people for traffic stop on private property. That would be a start.

The next question, under what circumstances are police officers authorized to user pepper spray and tasers on people....

and so on.

Mr. Fire them all....thanks for the clarification and you are correct

Ryan - I think you are far too kind (in hindsight).

Carrillo had been deported twice and had been in the country illegally for over 16 years. I don't think I would discuss his options with him. I don't think I would wait for a trial. I think one bullet to the head behind the courthouse would suffice. He clearly never listened to reason before. If you had seen his daughter declaring his innocence on the news, flashing her tattoos and gangsta rap, insisting that her father would never have done anything if he had known it was the "laws", you would be left with the same impression I was.

Carrillo didn't even know he was caught in a sting. He simply shot Officer Canales in order to keep his money and the illegal property he had purchased (with the same money). Only after Canales was dead on the ground did the other officers pull their weapons out to kill this evil offspring from the netherlands of our southern border.

Carrillo may not exemplify the average illegal, perhaps he's on the "good guy" end and the rest are far more outrageous than he was. For 16 years he stole from hard-working "Americanos" with no remorse. For 16 breeding years, he was fed by the American system with healthcare, school for his children, and food supplements. Then he chose to gun down a policeman in order to keep the money he had paid for illegal goods, as well as taking the cop's truck and the goods. What a fine specimen to stand up for!

Carrillo's brother is on the run for a murder in the Carolinas. They don't think he made it to the border. The two other illegal aliens complicit in Officer Canales' death are being held without bail.

I guess you want the cops to offer these people a chance to explain themselves before they gun down the cops..(?)..? Please explain why these people deserve to be handled with finer kidd gloves than they are already being handled with.

I am not a proponent of "shoot first, ask questions later", but this particular illegal alien seems to be. How do you combat such "rational" behavior and remain politically correct and alive? Please explain.

Also, please explain what a "regular citizen" is in politically correct terms, of course. I think it's fairly safe to say that a "regular citizen" is one that cannot claim any minority status. Ergo, Officer Canales was not a "regular citizen" not only because he was a cop, but also because he was hispanic. So, did he deserve special consideration from the criminal element because of his status? Carrillo didn't gave him special consideration. He immediately pulled a gun and murdered him. I feel fairly certain that's what Carrillo would have done for any of us. (What a good guy! Just like his daughter said.)

I get your point. I understand that minorities have been targeted by police before, but that is certainly not what happened in this case. In this particular situation, the pastor was known to harbor Hondruan immigrants and to be openly hostile to authority. Considering the upheaval in Honduras and the influx of immigrants, the good pastor had his hands full and whoever the cop was attempting to pull over was probably not in the United States to sightsee. A large percentage of criminals are picked up on traffic violations. I don't think this cop was picking on anyone and when a crowd of 40 approached the cop, the pastor was lucky that only a taser was used.

Actually, in the real world (not television), the only place that a police officer cannot pursue a suspect is into a foreign embassy or consulate. There is no exception for a church. Pursuit is an exigent circumstance.

Most police department policies authorize the use of pepper spray or a taser in any situation where physical force is required to gain the compliance of the suspect. The actual injury figures in taser incidents are significantly lower than an officer having to physical subdue a suspect.

Ty,

Anything that happens on church grounds IS the pastor's business!

He should have calle Jessie the Jacka$$ or Al Sharpie, they would have gladly been tasered.

Some Preacher...

...he should be turing the other cheek and calming this down with the community...Report the officer to his superior....

...Typical American....lets get a lawyer and sue!

TY-1194024 there is something to be learned from this incident if taken in the proper context. If the incident took place on public property there may be some validity to allegations that the pastor interfered in a police matter however as indicated the matter took place in the Church parking lot that is private property under the jurisdiction of the church and pastor. All other aspects seem to be speculative and clearly prejudicial warranting legal action. In terms of biblical principle forgive and forget sometimes issues or incidents have to be confronted first and dealt with and once resolved correctly forgotten. It is ludicrous to imply that it is okay for you to attack, causes physical harm and you are forgiven this would cause anarchy throughout the land. For the record, not even Jesus Christ operated in that fashion, there are many instances where he took immediate and spontaneous action and though he called on the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do does not imply that there will not be consequences for the actions, there is once to die and then the judgment for every act and the lack thereof committed in this life that will determine the final location of each and every one of us, heaven or hell.

momus, while the priest may have the right to question what is happening on the church grounds, that does not give him any right to get involved. Under no circumstance does anyone have the right to lay a hand on an officer charged with upholding the law.

If police aren't allowed onto private (church) property, then they can't go anywhere. As long as people stay on private property, they can shoot each other, kill each other, deal drugs, whatever. You can only be arrested if you're doing something illegal on city property? I don't think so. You can drive however you want but as long as you hurry up and get on private property before the police can catch you, they have to leave you alone?

Hey Cal Mil......The church parking lot is private property. Under no circumstance does a cop have the right to pull anyone over IN the parking lot! Period!

The church parking lot is private property. Under no circumstance does a cop have the right to pull anyone over IN the parking lot! Period!

BINGO!

if the officers are pulling a person over for a traffic violation and that person goes onto private property, then the police are allowed to follow. otherwise I would shoot people from my front yard and tell the police they cant come on my property.

i understand that you may be anti cop (at least until you need one) we cant be silly about it.

It's very odd that you can't touch a public SERVANT without it being a major offense. As if they are royalty!

Whatever you do, don't shake their hands. They may have to taser you.

In fact, you should probably coat their path with flower petals. Get down on your knees and never look them in the eyes.

All praise the public SERVANT.

It's to protect them and yourself by not touching them, wake up! Try to understand that every person they come in contact with everyday is to ticket them or put them in jail or they are braking up fights or tending to an accident, none of those have happy people involved, it's tense all the time some days worse then others and I highly doubt you would last a day in the shoes of an officer!

And how did we get to a situation where a police officer fears a CHURCH CONGREGATION?

Maybe if we didn't have the largest percentage of any population in the world locked up, they might be able to be a part of the community again.

Undoubtably, I wouldn't last as a cop. I'd see another cop breaking the law, arrest them, and well, that would be my day. Ever notice how they don't treat each other's transgressions near as seriously as the public they suppossedly serve?

How many times were police called to Drew Peterson's house about domestic violence without them taking any action? 17?

So we've got to wonder if an incident like the one in the church makes the public, heck, even the police themselves more safe.

I'm guessing we were neither protected or served.

A police officer can conduct a traffic stop on private property. If the driver being stopped chooses to stop his vehicle in a parking lot instead of on the side of the road, an officer has every right (by law) in every state in the country to conduct that traffic stop.

If the pastor wanted to know what was going on all he had to do was stand quietly back until the officer finished the stop, then approached the officer and asked him. There was no need to step into the middle of the stop.

You are correct there are omitted factors warranting clarification before an honest determination can be made. Unfortunately, though there are those believing and seeking to abide by the Word of God the majority from the President of these United States of America, Barack H. Obama who believe to the contrary and yet maintain control under the power of the prince of the air of this world, Satan, who is glorified both in thought, word, and deed including but not limited to the appearance of humankind and their attire to the manipulation of mass media. The best grievance of all is the fact that there a countless so-called Christians believing in the Word of the God as re-written and manipulated from various pulpits appeasing secularism by acting in consort with non-believers. Christians would do wise to mediate on Romans 8 as well as, seriously studying the word of God from Genesis to Revelation because contrary to popular believe neither the Law nor the prophets has been done away with but simply because of grammatical changes the enemy has blinded many to the realities of life, liberty and godly pursuit of happiness. So, yes, pay attention to Matthew 24 but do not stop there serious biblical study in a godly fashion is required because the wisdom of this world cannot comprehend the wisdom of biblical principle and precept and as much as there are those who would try it is lost (wisdom, knowledge and understanding) with the help of God. We may very well have voted the death and destruction, the total demise of America bringing in this administration but only the LORD knows the outcome, the intent and purpose of this ungodly administration.

Police seem to love tasers, because they can use them freely as a quick means of punishment and to gain control of a situation without even breaking a sweat or getting dust on their uniforms. Prior to tasers they had only their batons as non-lethal weapons, and that required physical effort and close proximity to the arrest subject. Situations that would have been handled by issuing a stern voice warning, then drawing their baton and smacking it against their hand, now escalate immediately to use of the taser.

How about the officer that tased a 72 year old woman a couple of weeks ago. She must have been kicking his azz

john-847382: Did you see the video? She was kicking his ass! This was no "little old lady" in any traditional sense. She was furious that he had the gall to pull over a woman her age and to talk back to her, being the young whipper-snapper that he was.

I think he tased her out of sheer embarrassment and utter frustration. He had completely lost all control of the situation.

What police brutality? He was just doing his job and out come 40 people. What your asking is for the police to coward down to 40 people and that's just not going to happen! Next time you need help from the police remember what your saying on the vine, for me I want the police to be able to handle anything they are called to without a cowardly bone in them.....SERVE AND PROTECT!!

serve and protect? in my opinion, it's pretty cowardly when police open up water cannons and billy clubs on a group of people peacefully demonstrating against their goverment. don't pretend like it doesn't happen. I've been there. We the people have a right to demonstrate and petition our government anywhere and anytime. well, i guess that's only written in the Constitution. It's just a piece of paper, really.

I have never said "all police are good" but vast majority are and have helped in time of need with the up-most professionalism and I respect them. When police disperse a group of people that are "peacefully demonstrating" is is an order handed down from the mayor of the city to the chief of police to the riot teams, so get mad at the mayor not the ones that are trying to do as ordered. I know for a fact they don't do anything until they feel it's becoming a mass that is too large to control if some dumb ass decides to not make it peaceful anymore, bottom line is they do their best to protect the people that are trying to be peaceful and those on the sidelines.

automation, I woudl side with the police UNLESS there is evidence presented that would call on me to do otherwise. There is not enough here. Removing the biases comments and focusing on what both parties agree on happened, what do we know?

1. There was a traffic stop involving a parishioner.

2. The pastor interceded (at what level, with what demeanor we do not know)

3. Things escalated and a confrontation between the pastor and the officer ensued.

4. The pastor went into the church and summoned approx 40 parishioners (including children) outside into the confrontation area.

5. The pastor was tasered.

There is a lot of gray area in there. There are questionable actions by the pastor. It may have very well gone down like he says, but without video evidence we will not know. I have seen with my own eyes incidents where and entire crowd will deliberately lie or twist the facts, even in such a case, to help out someone they care for, especially in a community that distrusts police officers (maybe with good cause, maybe not).I say that not because I am claining they are all doing so but to explain why I do not necessarily take the word of the mob.

With the case of the grandmother, we had a video which showed her non-compliance. In this case, without a complete video (not a 3 second clip from a cell phone), we will never know what happened.

This is why IMO every police vehicle should be equipped with a camera and microphone. Every cop should wear a mic which records their interactions with the public. It protects them and others.

I would rather be tasered than shot.

Tasers are used much too frequently, and in situations where use of a gun or even a baton would not even be considered. They are used not only to gain control but also as a means of administering punishment, as in the case of the student protester tasered repeatedly at the political rally before the election.

Why do you keep saying being tasered is excessive force? A 9 mm or .45 cal ACP round is excessive because you die! Given the choice, I'd rather be tasered any day!

In my opinion, most of the times I have seen a Taser used (or pepper spray) is was appropriate and brought on by the perpetrator. Not all times, but most. No form of subduingsubdueing a person is completely safe. Even grabbing a person and tackling them runs the risk of injury (to both police and perp).

So that jerk that busted in on a rally, and started yelling. He started pushing and kicking at people trying to grab him. What should the police have done? Try to grab him and take a kick to the face? That can be deadly. Or maybe just let him continue, and deny the rally organizers the right to organize? Maybe the guy hurts someone else. Bottom line is that once a person is physically confrontational, he becomes a candidate for some non-lethal method of being subdued. Non-lethal does not mean never lethal, just that it's intent is not "always lethal". I am for free speech but that guy bust in with the intent on causing trouble. Free speech is not a guarantee right in all venues (work, private places, moderated public forums...)

When a person confronts the police with physical threat, the police should respond to subdue them.

As for this case, the stated facts are so disparate that I cannot reasonable be sure who was right or wrong.

Unless I get convincing information, I side with the police.

I did see a report once on the excessive use of the taser by police. In this report it stated that it was on the rise and some were using it for even minor situations that irritated them.

I couldn't find what the regulations are for taser use in Webster Texas but these are the regulations the city of Las Vegas use.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/319245/Las-Vegas-Police-TASER-Regulations

EX-navdoc

A taser can be just as deadly to any given person as a bullet. Everyone is different.

some people can just shake it off, some it has no effect on them, and some people will die from it wheather or not they have a heart condition.

as with any eclectric shock, if the conditions are right, it will kill you just as dead as a bullet.

I'm sorry John, but I respectfully disagree with you. How is a police officer supposed to know if someone has a weak heart or not? Is the offficer supposed to stop in the middle of a situation and ask a suspect,"I'm about to taser you. Do you have a weak heart?" In that space of time, a police officer could wind up dead! Please show me reliable statistics that say a taser will kill you just as dead as abullet.

For someone with a bad back or brittle bones, tasering could cripple them. A policeman who uses a taser without very good reason should no longer be a policeman. Tasering someone who is already subdued is torture and merits jail time for the cop.

Same thing applies Mathew. Why should it be incumbent upon the officer to establish a suspects health condition during a possible arrest? I agree that sufficient reason must apply for a taser gun to be used, but in the majority of cases, were talking split second decisions that could prove fatal to the arresting officer if he delays or makes the wrong decision.

7matthew,

I too, am concerned for someone with physical problems. But, if a person is confrontational with police, what should they do?

You said "...is already subdued...", does that mean they wrestled him to the ground? That could be equally dangerous for a person with bad back or brittle bones (like me!).

Tasering someone who is under control is pointless and dangerous without value. Tasering for that sake would be a cause for police brutality review.

However, even a person who is down can fight and cause injury. I have seen perps who were tackled later to be tasered due to post tackle fighting (kind of a fight ender). I understand that use, again a person that fights has brought it on themselves. Clearly, not all cops use the Taser honorably, but like everything else, the bad minority should not rule the majority of good cops.

I'm with you, Kat. I would like to see videos on at all times with the police. I have seen reports that officers write and they manipulate them--the forms they use to describe an incident (there are alot of places where they only have to make a check mark without an explanation--such as, person has a droopy eye, when in reality they have a physical impairment- I have seen reports about women who took to long to find their ID in their purses that were used to make a case for intoxication--pleeez, women's purse arrangements should not be a source for determining much of anything unless they're carrying a gun!) can be used to make people APPEAR guilty. This needs to be stopped.

Many states do require that all traffic stops be recorded by a video camera mounted in the police vehicle. I guess Texas is a state that does not require that.

Ed-

Actually there aren't states that require that traffic stops be videotaped. It is usually a requirement imposed by the agency.

My mistake Von. Thanks for correcting me.

No problem. Based on your posts elsewhere, I knew it was an honest mistake.

The only reason that the states do not mandate that all local law enforcement agencies use videotaping is due to the cost. If the state required it, the state would have to help subsidize the purchase of the equipment, which isn't cheap.

Actually Kat and Von,

On the lighter side, what we need is a "Taser Camera"! As I was thinking of the Dash-CAM, I thought that maybe we could install a camera on the Taser. It could record a snapshot right before and after the Tasering. Can you imagine the series of Before/After Taser snapshots?

That's what I was trying to say in the first Comment on this page, but of course the Liberals jumped all over me.

It seems that the ones that jumped all over you are ones that seem to have alot of dealings with the police and have chips on their shoulders. Funny how most of us don't have much dealings with the police one way or another other than seeing them alongside the road pulling someone else over. Looks like a lifestyle choice to me.

Actually, the 72 year old woman was taserd not pepper sprayed.

When did it become law that you had to sign a ticket?

Ever since they started to write them, It's a promise to appear in court on your court date, has no meaning to what you plead in court ....guilty or not guilty It's just a promise.

It is not a law that you must sign a citation. In several states, the refusal to sign a citation can result in a custodial arrest because the citation is considered a summons to appear in court. It depends on the state.

yes, but once the officer tells him to step back the pastor should have stepped back and kept from saying anything eles. let the courts take care of the ticket.

A traffic stop whether on his grounds or not and whether to one of his parishioners or not is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS

todd,

ANYTHING that happens on church grounds is the business of the pastor. I don't care whether it's legal/illegal activity, Official or Un-Official business.

Momus said "Don't you all know that anything that happens on church property damn well is the pastor's business and anything that happens to one of his parishioners is too. He ...

not when it includes interfering with an officer in the performance of his or her duties. A priest has absolutely no more authority than a person sitting at home. You and the priest can believe its his business, but you had better find a better way of conducting your business otherwise the taser will be the outcome 10 times out of 10.

Momus - Why is it his business, just because he is a pastor? I'm not saying police always do everything right and that people don't have a right to protest. However, messing with a police officer who is doing his job is probably not a good idea. The pastor can help his parishioner after the police are done with him, not in the middle.

Let me see, this is my town, I think I'd better go stick my nose in every time I see a policeman doing anything. Yeah, that'll go over real well.

I'm not worried about the Police tasing me. There won't be any "Don't tase me bro" coming from my lips. I tell you what though, if one thinks they are just gonna run up on me and shock me if I ask them a question, they'd better be ready for the reckoning! 10 times outta 10!

I ask all of you fools that don't think it was any of the pastor's business, since you all can't wrap your skulls around the concept of Private Property.

Say you're having a party at your house and the Police pulls someone over in your driveway, you don't think you have the right to go out there and see what's going on and if he gets short with you, you don't think you have the right to bring witnesses out to see what's going on?

Would that not make you nervous mr. momus

a large crowd gathering whith hatred in thier eyes and mouthing off when they should just stay out of it?

momus. of course i have the right to question them, and of course i have the right to bring out witness'. that does not mean that the officer has to answer my questions. even if it was my wife who pulled into my driveway. Do I have the right to argue with the officer...no... if the officer tells me that I need to back away or i will be tased, I can either back away or be tased, but thinking that the officer did something wrong is just foolish.

they always tell you you will be tased before they do it. they usually tell you twice...

i guess the third time is the charm.

The correct thing for the pastor to do would have been to have waited until the officer finished the traffic stop. He could have then approached the officer, identified himself and asked what was going on.

Most police officers will be more than happy to engage in a conversation after the stop is concluded.

I can't fathom that the police officer didn't ask the preacher to step back. Even if it is on your property if a cop tells you to do so you are obliged to listen. You really are not entitled to know what is going on even if a police officer pulls someone over and it happens to be on your property. The best and only thing anyone needs to do is stay out of it unless they see the cop engaged in unlawful actions.

Something provoked this situation either the cop or the pastor.

Gay Vet, this is the same as the police beating on gay pride events attendees! here is a clue, you look the other way when its a gun owners because you dont like guns, you look the other way when its someone who dosent have your same religious beliefs because your not of that faith, you look the other way when its someone that is of a different race because your not of that race...but when its YOU, and no one is there to help because they have already been hauled off what are you going to do.

I could care less what your persuasion is, and I spent 18 years in the army...but when this is going on all around us it makes you wonder what is really going on...If you remember your oath - you swore to support and defend the CONSTITUTION against all enemies! well cops that abuse for any reason is a violation of the constitution!

Momus

Hey........Don't Ask, Don't Tell!

What the hell is that suppose to mean??? Just another cheap shot, which means nothing to me. STFU.

bwana1961

What beatings at what gay pride event are you talking about?

Do you know me personally?? How do you know when and what I look away from? You know nothing about me. So stop talking crap.

If this guy would have let the cop complete his traffic stop, there would have been no problem. Was the person who was pulled over reacted upon by the police officer? No. The meddling pastor, who had no business sticking his nose into police business, was reacted upon. Name one good reason why this pastor needed to get involved in this. How do you know the pastor did not assault the officer? What is an officer supposed to do when he is alone and confronted by a hostile mob. And all this over a traffic stop!!?? Get real people. He had NO business harassing this officer for doing his job.

I do defend and support the constitution. If this officer was assaulted by the pastor, just how did he violate the constitution. The way I see it, most religions are the enemy when it comes to the constitution.

Gay Vet?????? LMAO....STFU?

Gay Vet...Semper Fi, Dorothy...

Bwana 1961... when you plagerize someone else's work, you should give them credit. You stole the entire first paragraph of your post and even used it improperly. This is what they mean when they say a little knowledge is dangerous.

Also, if you could, please tell me where it is written in the constitution that a police officer cannot tase a priest or pastor who is interfearing with the performance of his (the officers) duty.

kcm...roflmao

Gay Vet: A police officer was murdered by an illegal alien within the past 2 weeks in this area (Houston). Considering all the circumstances around that murder and the fact that this "pastor" was known to harbor victims from Honduras and have a very antigonistic personality, I'm not surprised at all that this happened.

Emotions are very high after the slaughter of Officer Canales, and it was a slaughter. The murderers family came on TV to announced "Carrillo's" innocense and were inflamed at any indication that he had lived outside of "the laws" - other than his 16 year illegal alien status. Then the authorities got a warrant to inspect his "house". His house was basically a "big box" store of appliances that had been stolen.

There's not one good thing that came from this evil man, including his sperm. There is not one good thing that will come from his family. They truly believe that they deserve everything they steal and see no wrong in stealing it. Want to rehab them?

On the other hand, we cannot replace Officer Canales. He worked with the community and everyone else. I really don't like cops, but this guy was different. He was a "lover", not a "hater". He never took, but constantly contributed. And some insignificant piece of trash from Mexico took him down.

I'm sure that "insignificant piece of trash from Mexico" is now a hero to some gang in Mexico.

Lee - you make a good point.

What get's me is Houston is a sanctuary city. The police didn't even check to see if someone was illegal when they committed major crimes and were in their jail.

But because 2 cops were killed by illegal aliens, NOW it's a priority to look for them. And we both know if it was 2 regular citizens who were killed, they would not be looking for illegals.

I just wish the police would treat a death of a citizen exactly like a death of their own. Sadly, it seems that they do not.

This is why I say that the police need to be held to a higher standard. They need to remember that we are all equal under the law, and we all need to respect each other. They can't play favorites and then wonder why the community doesn't reach out to them.

I know they deal with scum, but not every person that they ticket or even arrest is scum. I would doubt that we would think this preacher was scum if we knew him.

Look, we still can't even ASK the legal status of people when they go to the hospital or when they bring their kids in to schools.

We do need to penalize the employers of illegals. Why was the idea of making it a felony to knowingly hire an illegal shot down in Congress?

My idea has always been to just make the employers pay for all government services that the illegals receive. Public school runs $6000 - $10,000 per yer per student in public schools. Maybe they have a couple of kids. With all Gov't services that may be $20,000 a year for that one illegal worker. I would doubt they would hire them if they had to pay what they cost. Suddenly, US citizens would look like a bargain.

KCM-801951

You should know. The Marines has the highest percentage of gays than any other branch of the military sweets. I was in the Army. We didn't blow each other just on a dare like you guys do.

Did you know, that back in the nineties the "Marine of the year" for four years in a row was gay?

Funny how bigots must always stray from the topic of discussion when an obvious gay person makes a comment. "Semper dumbass" KCM.

GV...Bogus statistics to make your point...Really reaching...Anchors away, Peaches...

That's my point --

We're only hearing about this because he's a Pastor. And we're only hearing about it because he's a Latino.

That's why nobody ever heard about the White Pastor who was tased about a month ago.

A welder would have the knowledge that electricity can ruin your day, a pastor puts to much faith in God.

LMAO...

so were supposed to be sheeple and go into the gas chamber without a fight?

How can you go so extreme? Gas chamber? Did you have your coffee yet?

You are supposed to respect the rule of law in the country. When an officer pulls you over for breaking a traffic law, he has every right to do so. In fact, as part of his job to enforce the laws he has the obligation to do so.

Police officers are given an extraordinary amount of authority in this country. Their job requires it. They are often the targets of violence and hatred (some justified, most not). If you are breaking the law (speeding, DWI, parking, etc), and get a ticket it is YOUR fault not the officers. If you do not like the laws, go after the lawmakers (congressman). The officers enforce the laws, they do not make them.

There are some officers who abuse their power. IMO, those that do, should be treated with extreme prejudice by our legal system. Like the spider man adage says, with great power comes great responsibility. When that power is abused, drop the hammer on them. We should not ever tolerate abuses of our rights. However, in this nation we have been given a courtroom to settle those disputes, we do not whip up a crowd to go after the officers. Even the guys that founded this nation went before the king of England and sent many letters to him before they fired any shots. They did not just grab the rifles and start shooting. I have known many cops. Some are great people, some are people, some are animals. FEW of those I have ever met abused their power.

There is not enough evidence placed in this article to convict either of these men. All things being equal though, I will take the cops side in most cases. They do not want trouble, they do not want confrontations like this.

Hold on, hold on. Did he get 40 other people to come back out with him? The article says that and then it says the police officer kicked down the door. If he was already outside with his congregation, there would have been no one kicking a door down...

Either way, if he was going to check things out, he should have waited until the police were done with their business first. Remember, police have to protect themselves. On the other hand, it seems like this was way over the top. There just aren't enough details to determine whether this course of action was needed.

So were supposed be like sheeple and go intot he gas chambers without a fight.