I agree with you. I couldn't believe some of the things they said weren't cheating. I think if you share any part of yourself that is intimate with someone else other than the person you are already in a relationship with it's basically cheating.

Your partner should be your closest friend, the one you confide in and the one you are physical with. When you share those things with someone else IMO it is a breech of the relationship.

If you do something you think you can't tell your partner about then obviously you know it crossed the line and it was wrong.

Totally. They look the other way, because they want to cheat, too, but they want to call it something else.

Fantasizing is something you do on your own and in your mind. So no it is not cheating. Flirting with someone else is encouraging an attraction to someone other than your partner. So yes, I'd say it is cheating.

The things you say to someone while flirting are things you should only be saying to the person you love. If you feel the need to "act out a fanstasy" online with someone else then it is no longer just having a fantasy.

In my opinion.

And hell yes I have fantasized but I am not going to go out and look for it with other people. Those are mine and mine only. :)

But Tempest19, what's the difference in thinking about messing around with others other than your mate, and chatting about it with them? I believe you're under the impression that I'm actually trying to hook up for real with these people I may be chatting with. It's just roleplaying....besides, if I ever wanted to meet these people for real, I had better prepare myself to be disappointed, since I'm quite sure most of these "girls" I chat with on the internet are actually 50-something y/o geezers with hairy pot bellies and two greasy hairs on their bald scalps!

Another point to consider....I'm sure there are more than a few of us out there who actually turn to internet flirting to enhance their sex lives with their mates! I know my wife will most likely reap the benefits of my online exploits....but, like most women, she would rather I make love to "her" in my mind as well as in the bed, rather than be thinking about some figmant of my imagination. The hard truth is that it gets really difficult sometimes to get interested in making love to your wife, and wouldn't it be in the best interest for all concerned if your wife just doesn't overanalyze the situation?? Thoughts like "is he actually making love to his dream girl instead of me?" can really put a damper on the whole mood. Just go with it, and don't assume anything more than what is actually happening at the moment. Enjoy it!!

Heck, if you ever got a good look at me, you'd probably think my wife was fantasizing about making love to George Clooney rather than with me...lol! And to tell you the truth, it wouldn't bother me in the least if she was!

baggage? bitter?

Nice name. hehe

Shouldn't you find yourself before you get into a serious relationship then? Because lying to someone and breaking promises is not part of finding yourself. If anything it is detrimental not only to your partner but to you.

Once you lie you find it easier to keep lying if not out of necessity but out of the false sense of comfort thinking if you got away with it once you can again and eventually it makes one become callous to the feelings of others. Because it only matters if you get caught right?

Yes......all those perfect people in a perfect world should find perfect relationships. Reality is that we don't really find that and have to work it out. There is more to life than cute noses and big boobs......other side is that we can't all be president of every coporation and country. Yall are the reason wars get started and should learn to take responsibility for yourselves while we work it out.....unless you want to help and take some responsibility.

How realistic is that expectation? Most men I know would be happy with one woman. How many women do you know that can say the same? Since I am not a woman I can't answer but I bet you can. Answer it silently because you all have already demonstrated that you don't need us.

P.S. If I could change anything about my emotional post it would be to say......share your feelings. Communication is the MOST important thing in a relationship. When the honeymoon is over and the kids are pooping and throwing up all over the house......communication and dating are the most important things. The worst feeling I ever felt in my ex marriage was to feel obsolete. Hope that helps.

The worst feeling I ever felt in my ex marriage was to feel obsolete. Hope that helps.

I am a woman and I was in a relationship for 11 years and ended up feeling not just obsolete but invisible.

I think simply some people are geared for a monogamous relationship sooner than others and I think that some never are. I just don't consider it natural to lie to your significant other or to even lie at all. (In a sense it seems it is part of human nature but I am not referring to it in that sense)

I can agree with you though, that communication in a relationship and total honesty are the two things that keep people together and if not together at least both have a realistic idea of where they stand without the illusions or delusions and added hurt and confusion.

You can't have real communication without honesty.

Agreed. You write very well and I apreciate your opinion. How do you truely know someone unless you forgive the occasional mistake? We all make them. More important....how do you move on with your life after you have been wronged by a serial cheater or someone that takes advantage of your trust? That kind of person just isn't cool whether male or female.

The option to forgive is always within the person who has been wronged. Some can and some can't. I think forgiving someone for a mistake is always the right thing to do unless that person continues to make the same mistake. In that case, the person is just taking advantage of your kindness and has no real contrition for what they are doing.

As for trying to move on after a serial cheater I think the objective would be to look inside yourself as to why you continued to stay with that person if they went on to do it more than once. That doesn't mean taking the blame but it does mean avoiding making yourself a victim of that kind of treatment again.

You sound like a smart lady. What are the chances you would follow me around and consult on daily choices?

*laughs* I appreciate the compliment but I'm afraid these things are always just much easier when you're not emotionally involved.

You'd have to wonder why I waited 11 years to get tired of feeling invisible. :)

Your story sounds interesting. Who would want to be invisible?

No one in their right mind :)

Now I am going to be thinking all night. No chance at going to sleep early. Here I was traveling around the globe vicariously saving the world......now Im totaly distracted. Thanks :)

LOL you're welcome I think.

I am not sure which is more interesting, a good discussion or world travel mixed with a cape and tights. LOL Maybe both equally.

Given the option of either wearing tights or having a discusion.......Im going to go with good discusion. If I had sooper powers (which I don't but my son often does) I still wouldn't choose to wear tights. I would be t-shirt and shorts man, just like always lol.

People that say lying is natural - are just plain liars. Your first post way up there would make lying a necessity. That's just B.S.

It's a cop out for betrayal and having no character. That's even outside of sexual relationships.

Sounds like you want to cheat and have your main squeeze hanging around on the side just in case - for those slow times, don't cha know. No character for sure.

Joman,

Think what you want about me. A few years back I cheated on my wife and lied about it because I knew in my heart it was wrong. I justified by telling myself I was protecting my family from the truth. I was angry and felt ignored and I crossed that line. We were not a happy couple and our marriage fell apart.....as did my life after we divorced. I chalk it up as life experience and learn from my mistakes. I feel different about it today than I did yesterday and tomorrow will be different too. We get along well now and continue to raise our child.

What’s next in the love department? Who knows? I’m still busy picking up the pieces and getting right with myself. Why would I expect anyone else to be any different?

The self discovery is great. The lying only caused more trouble, more pain, more damage. There were better ways to handle the bad relationship and it still could have led to self discovery, a divorce and a better life for both of you and the children. You could have even ended up screwing a new babe.

So....what makes you an expert on the subject? Been there done that or did someone spite you? Are you one of the fortunate few that was born with all the right answers at all the right times? Never surprised yourself or done anything your ashamed of? Must be nice. Pride before the fall JoMan.

Typical comments back from someone not facing up to their own hurt and hurts. Time does heal, but don't forget the lessons. Truly I don't have pride concerning my state as of now, I just found some of your statements made me a bit nauseous.

I do however admit when I'm wrong and don't justify my actions by going Que Sera, Sera, and then encompass my wrong actions in a whole "life enlightenment" statement. I try to learn from my mistakes and try not to make the same ones over again.

And yes, all of us do want to try a new flavor of ice-cream, but some of us love and enjoy and choose to respect the partner we made our vows to, and don't treat them like the flavor of the month. Ice-cream and humans are not the same. I was serious when I made my vows so was my spouse. We've been married 28 years. And after that long we both get to forgive quite a few mistakes, but there are mistakes and there are blatant jerk attacks. Which I've also heard can be worked through if "both" partners are willing.

I made a promise to myself if I was headed else where, I would turn them loose first. I don't just do that for my spouse, but because I respect myself, too.

Bottom line is some people learn the hard way some never learn at all. Most were taught these values as children but knowing what they are and being able to apply them are two different things.

Some people just need to be smacked down hard to get it.

You can show a child a flame and tell them.. Hot.. ouch. One child might take your word for it and never try touching it and another will have to test it for himself to find out.

I am not sure if this is just different brain wiring for some or what. But I do think that this is a reality for a lot of people even after childhood.

I don't know what to make of people that never learn and continue to make the same mistake. Lack of character?

Does flirting on facebook count as cheating? Yes.

Thanks for the article and good discusion.