The good news is, these radical clerics have tipped their governmental hands and shown the world that Iran is the last country that should have anything nuclear.

It shouldn't matter to the world that Iran is the 5th largest oil producer. Stop buying their oil and the government falls. Period. The citizenry will take care of the government.

When khatami called for murdering all 'rioters', he was talking about the mothers, daughters, sisters and wives of Iran. He will concentrate on the women to try and shut them up forever. Khatami and every other member of the Iranian govrnment are responsible for Neda's death. She was literally an innocent bystander who was shot by a coward.

No amount of 'hounddogging' these guys can do is going to change the facts or what the world saw them do to their own people, their own Muslim brothers and sisters. Those in the government are nothing more than common street murderers.

People aren't rioting against God, Khatami. They are rioting against tyranny. God's not too impressed with tyranny, either. Go back and review your Qur'an and Hadiths.

Down with the Leadership of Iran, Power to the Good People of Iran... It is the Leadership of Iran, that will be the cause of World War 3, just watch and see... They are mad at the free World, because it is causing them to loose their Dictatorship ... Their own people are finally starting to see their own leadership is just a Dictator...

Hey republicans sold america, wakey wakey. America is always to blame, listen to your Supreme Leader (Barak Hussein Obama) when he makes his world apology tours. His "dialogue" with Iran has done no good. The only time he said anything good, unfortunately too little, too late, no one listened. I am not a fan of McCain, but I bet he never would have wasted our time kissing Iranian ass, thinking they would love him and be nice to us or their own citizens. WE ARE THE GREAT SATAN to them, we are no better than Jews in their book, and they want ALL Jews dead, so what does that tell you? Death ot America is their favorite slogan, and they mean it. I'll tell you what. 'll cheerfully support it if Obama wants to fly over there and walk into the mosque where Khameni hangs out and apologize for our sins and surrender himself for "harsh and cruel" punishment with no mercy. That will surely make them love us, right? Never happen, and it shouldn't, but it would make as much sense as apologizing for being free and supporting freedom EVERYWHERE!!! GROW A BACKBONE, OBAMA. MAke me proud to support my president, instead of embarrassed over his actions. Prove that you can be the uniter you claimed to be.

So much for Islam "CLAIMING" they are a non-violent religion. Muhammad must be turning over in his grave at the idea of the Leading Iranian Islamic Cleric calling for the death of fellow religious members.  The Iranian Ayatollahs should be executed for offending Muhammad, their religious icon and the basis of their faith.    

Republicans Sold America

Give us all just one example where appeasement has worked...These people have a 6th century mentality..They need to be dragged and kicking into the current century..

Obama is weak and it show each and everyday..

I am not a Democrat but i think Obam's hands off and not getting tougher is right. For 30 yrs we havent had diplomatic relations with Iran (Both Republican and Democratic Presidents). Neither party has been able to break the stalemate. Personally I dont care if we ever have diplomatic relations with Iran. The current president demanded an apology from Obama...I say they owe us an apology for invading our territory 30 yrs ago (Did everyone forget about our embassy?). Once we get that apology then maybe...maybe we can talk....but not before that apology!!!

It saddens me to see bloggers like Neale. The Republicans were once a proud party that would not call names and spread conjecture but ride the wave on their character. They were not a flawless party but there were good men and women who were leaders. Now I see the name calling and extremists and wonder what happened to the civil party that once was?

Part of the problem is that the GOP sold itself out to the media.

Traditionally, Republicans have been good at winning elections (the marketing/capitalist side of their ideology), but horrible at governing (endless moral and "family values" bankruptcy).

Their obsession to win elections, at all costs, especially pandering to their 13th century base, has resulted in an inevitable deterioration of the party.

pddoc - simple logic would conclude that one or several posts in this thread by republicans does not represent the whole party. Try basing your assumptions on a greater focus group. However, by your logic the same can be said about any party that has posted here or in any newsvine post as there are name-callers on all sides. Just asking for a little objectivity please. Have a great weekend!

It was my understanding that he is skating on thin ice with the coucil that appoints the Supreme Leader and could be removed if they decide to do so.

Not a very holy attitude to call for executing people for not sharing the same views. Maybe they should demand separation of church and state

Hey Republicans Sold...

Hasn't the UN been trying that for years?

you want to know what the biggest joke is? is when i read where party members from one party bashesthe party or vise versus (referring to democrats and republicans).

neither party has or their people have any room to point a finger....its so laughable that its sick.

its almost childish....."they did this"..."ops" "we did that too", and "they did that"...."ops" "we did that too".

take any topic or subject....if the democrats did it this time, im sure in the past or the future the republicans will do it next and again...vise versus.

when will you people stop thinking about a PARTY and start thinking about America???

sorry off topic....i had already posted on another blog that this would be coming. they (Iranian govt) will execute as many as needed to put down the protests.

"Iranian cleric says 'rioters' should be executed.

Protesters are waging war against God, Ahmad Khatami says."

-------------------------------

That says it all right there and nothing else needs be said, no negotiations no nothing the rest of the world needs to unite NOW and condemn these fanatic's and let them know they will be alienated from the rest of the world.

If Russia supports Iran, ALL trade and ties are to be cut with them.

This is fanaticism at it's worse, a war against GOD? for protesting an election, how out of touch with reality can one get?

These cleric's are representive of a peaceful loving religion that has snipers murdering innocent women in the streets?

Killing people to stop them from protesting is about the same as Obama spending our way to prosperity. It just wont work.

history repeats itself...psycho maniac Leaders/ Clerics speaking for GOD..can't anyone understand, God gave man CHOICES..take away those Choices from people, you are NOT A MAN GOD..pure and simple, these Maniacs must be disposed of..HOW DARE !!, do they profess to represent GOD !!.. a dictatorship is obviously apparent here.. Beware !!,,the Great Serpents are showing off their colors/ markings, then their Beastly ways..the good people of Iran must unite/ fight and overthrow this sadistic situation..

This cleric sounds like Rush wearing a turbin.He probably watches Hannity and O'Reilly for how to conduct himself in the modern era.All he needs now is to talk about family values and get himself a mistress

Ayatollah Ahmed Khatami's brain magnified 10,000,000,000 times with an electron microscope......> .

Mousavi, has backed down from the street protests, most likely do to the Iran Leadership threating to kill him and his family, this is the way the Leadership of Iran does business, in order to stay in controll and have power over all it's people... According to written History, the Muslim Leadership has done it this way for 1000's of years... According to written history, Muslims have killed and murdered more people in the history on man... also in written history, 80 percent of the Countries that are Muslim today, were forced to become Muslim or face Death... As the Iranian Leadership has shown, the Muslim leadership still practices this... To stay in Power over the People... There are no Free People in the Muslim World... None... People know right from wrong, but it looks like leaders and Governments do not...

sorry, correction; take away those Choices from the people, you are NOT A MAN OF GOD.... typo error,to bad microsoft does not make a cpu..one can speak into, for word transcription...Boo, well said..I agree with ya........

Muhammad must be turning over in his grave at the idea of the Leading Iranian Islamic Cleric calling for the death of fellow religious members.

Muhammad (much like the spread of Christianity) was one of the most violent oppressors of people. The rise of Islam came by his conquering and brutal slaughtering of other tribes and then other nations.

But Christianity isn't any different, its rise in Rome was accompanied by crucifying people to convert, the Holy Crusades, and the Inquisition.

Bottom line...Religion in the name of Government is terrible, and committs terrible atrocities.

I'm a Republican and a Conservative and NOT an Obama supporter, HOWEVER, in the case of Iran, I agree with "Jeff" (Msg. 1.8) that our restraint is, for the moment, the best policy. Any activist intervention (or threat of active intervention) by the USA in this matter will simply serve to unite the Iranian people against us, thereby sparing them the consequences of their self-inflicted domestic discord. Why do you think, early in the process, when Obama was practically silent on the Iranian election protests, the Mullahs and Ahmadinejad were stridently claiming that the protests were the consequence of American intrigues and action? Why do you think that the Iranian government suddenly decided to hold "naval exercises" (in the hope of provoking a confrontation, in the Gulf, with American naval forces)? They know quite well that the one and only way to divert attention from their misdeeds is to focus attention on us. Therefore, the best thing we can do is to deprive the Iranian leadership of any legitimate claim that we are meddling. Certainly, as things progress and heat up (and this call to "execute the rioters" was politically boneheaded - make people desperate by threatening them and they'll do desperate things), we both can and should up the amperage of our criticism, but stepping into the middle of this dispute and making ourselves an issue in it would play to exactly the needs of the ruling party in Iran.

Now, do I think we owe North Korea a more forceful response than Obama's offered? Absolutely. However, there is NO fight for hearts and minds in N. Korea as there is in Iran. That is and remains purely a contest of strength and strength needs to be shown. However, Iran presents a political and diplomatic option in which a strong arm approach is both unneedful and counterproductive.

The world is not a "one size fits all"/"one answer for everything" kind of place. I, for one, agree absolutely with Obama's actions toward Iran, at least up to this point.

I see that Obama met with German PM Merkel today. Was he too timid to raise the issue of Germany being among Iran's biggest trading partners? Was he afraid that she would bust him upside the head with a Mercedes hood ornament? Without western trading partners, could the oppressive, brutal Iranian regime survive? Dropping Iran as a trading partner would mean very little to the German economy while it would seriously wound the murdering, monster clerics. Another missed opportunity?

Talk about harsh, no nonsense, the poor Iranians have no say what so ever, they are like sheep in that country, if they voice their opinons they can be put to death.

I guess the idea of executing the clerics might be the best idea, hopefully these Iranians had the right to bare arms, but then again that is the right of a Democratic country like the USA, no wonder we are against losing that right, we could also be the sheep...

I think the leaders of Iran are worthy of execution.

Obama is weak and it show each and everyday..

Duh, I tink Obamma is the cauze of all the world problems and everyting else, duh. Y dont wee just fourget all the newz and tell obamma to go bak where he comes from! I think hez an arrab any way and a muslin hippie commie pinko freko allso, Duh!

psycho maniac Leaders/ Clerics speaking for GOD

Hey the US has this too! See? Tons of common ground with Iran!

Nicey

But Christianity isn't any different, its rise in Rome was accompanied by crucifying people to convert, the Holy Crusades, and the Inquisition.

Since when did Christians crucify people to make them converts? Where did you get this info?

Before I procede let me state upfront that I am an Atheist. However I was raised a Roman Catholic but lost any faith before I entered high school. I know something of Roman Catholicism. True that it had its excesses but why not emphasize the positive as well. It built hospitals, universities, medical, dental and law schools, orphanages and created charities to help the poor both here and abroad. Give such organizations their due.

BHO should champion the Right's and Freedoms of The US Constitution. He should stand with the other World Leaders and voice their collective disapproval of how the Iranian leadership is controlling THEIR Internal Unrest. IMO - He should have done this with the support of Congress.............instead of after being cohersed....

Beyond this use the UN as a avanue to protest... Fortunatly the days of actively over-throwing the leadership of another country are OVER............. Unless this leadership is actively supporting world terrorism or supporting the over-throw of another countries leadership........

For those who want to go in and kick-A**, remove leaders, etc. What would Bush or BHO done if the losing Party had staged protest and tried to throw them out of office??????????? Staged marches and actively violated the laws?????????? IMO - What is happened in Iran would have happened in the USA............. Except MAYBE the call for DEATH to selected demonstrators and the leaders.... Though I'm not sure of this...........I would hope not.....

DaVinci

Since when did Christians crucify people to make them converts? Where did you get this info?

Um did you read the quote you posted before answering?

I'm not sure how old you are, have no idea what you did learn in school as education it sounds like is being watered down too much, but the history of the world is completely awash in wars of religious nature. That is all the purpose to the wars back in the days were, religious, convert or die. Muslims did it, Christians did it. We have a Holy Roman Empire and a Byzantine Empire to help with it. Christianity and Islam were the two biggest sparring factions. Judaism was in it as well, however the Jews were more fighting the Muslims given the time of slavery for the Jews in Egypt. But the whole point of all of that mess of all of the wars was about religion.

The H-O-L-Y C-R-U-S-A-D-E-S

The Spanish Inquisition

The Salem Witch Trials, Reformation (Martin Luther time), 30 Year's War

Late Antiquity

Middle Ages

The list is endless

We didn't even have the Age of Englightenment until the Mid17th-18th Centuries (Give or take the time frame is not quite clear), so imagine ALL those times before. That is all anything ever was especially during the medieval times.

In reference to post #1.9 and pddoc. :

The Republican party doesn't have a lock on the attitudes you just mentioned. The Democrats a guilty as well of the things you claim sadden you about the Republican party. In truth it makes me sad to see the what BOTH parties have become. Extremism and name calling are not a one party thing. They both do it. I've never in my lifetime seen either party "ride the wave on their character".

This is what a delusional god do to people, make them kill and oppress innocent people !

Ah ! religion, what an evil thing !

Kshark

Um did you read the quote you posted before answering?

I was answering the following statement by Nicey:

But Christianity isn't any different, its rise in Rome was accompanied by crucifying people to convert, the Holy Crusades, and the Inquisition.

I asked for evidence that Christians crucified people to make them convert. I have yet to receive any evidence on the matter.

Judaism was in it as well, however the Jews were more fighting the Muslims given the time of slavery for the Jews in Egypt.

Sorry but you need to rephrase. I do not have much of an education compared to you but I think you're trying to say that Jews were battling the Muslims when they were slaves in ancient Egypt. If so then you should know that during the time period of which you speak there were no Muslims. Islam was born in the the 7th century AD.

the history of the world is completely awash in wars of religious nature.

A good historian searches below the surface to find the truth. Many of the conflicts you listed were not truly of a religious nature. Let me explain. There are the 'covert' reasons for strife and 'overt' reasons for it. Covert reasons are hidden from the masses. Overt reasons constitute the propaganda that the masses are fed. Covert reasons are often based on political power. For example, the Salem Witch Trials which you list are a good example. If someone was accused of being a witch, the burden of proof was on the accused. Often if the accused offered an admission of guilt it would suffice to get them off the hook. However you will remember there was talk that the wife of the governor of the Massachusetts colony might also be a witch. At that point the trials were halted! Hence the politics involved reared its head about the surface of the water! Religion was the pretense for the trials while the true nature of the trials was to "keep people in their place" by fear!

Ok DaVinci let's start again--

Now beginning with Christians and conversion. Well first if they were sacrificed they would be dead so how could they be converted. Semantics I know. However, if the threat of sacrifice you mean to conversion, different story.

Now I listed MANY instances starting from the well heck ancient times to the present day. You are actually disagreeing and talking of covert and overt actions? I don't know your education, I don't know what you learned in world histor, major religions so I have no idea what you were taught.

Good historians sarch below the surface for the truth? I really have no idea what more truth you need regarding the wars. The wars have all been about religion. The Spreading of it the demand that everyone follow becuase it was the most powerful and is still the most powerful human tool. Even look at the terrorist groups now. Convert or die. You have the never ending story of battle in Ireland. You did have the salem witch trials, the middle ages Elizabeth the Great she was of one religion the others below her rank were another, she was persecuted for it.

It is a never ending story that religion is the basis for everything. Now with some countries or areas, societies today it does deal with power and corruption. Not so much the spread of religion but more the you have what I want or I just want to cause harm.

But history was absolutely rife with religion being the foundation for wars, and not even just wars. Paganism is older than Catholicism but Pagans oh bad they don't worship GOD, they are in trouble and the Catholics took care of that.

If you want to bring up good historians well we could argue the bible. We have no proof at alll Christ existed, and to have it thought immaculate conception is pretty out there. The bible were stories told from one generation to the next. Pretty hard to believe the Bible, at least for me. If others do, wel lthat is cool. I won't complain.

"Keep people in their place" by fear? Well let us talk a second about that withcraft is against religion, as they would believe. It is devil worship, religious undertones. Christians fear withcraft, but they also plague those that would practice it. Religion as I said is the MOST powerful human to. More powerful than the atom bomb. It is controlling, it is corrupting, it does bring a sense of pleasure for people, but it instills fear. The witch trials basically saying if you are a devil worshipper as that is only how they viewed witchcraft you must die. Christians in Venice believed the plague was caused by courtsans and witches and they were persecuting them, killing them for it. Witchcraft was feared, still is, it is also misunderstood.

Now in regards to the Exodus of Egypt. Ancient egypt was more of a polytheistic practice, BUT Israelites were considered just tribal people, they did not deserve a state so said the Pharoah, and basically what Muslims think today. Egypt is now predominately Muslim. Back during ancient time the Qur'an actually talks of the Exodus, just gives a bit of a different version than the Bible.

Most all on here are missing this with our government...because of oil....our congress and all presidents in the past have bowed down to all the Arab nations...they, congress, both parties, have allowed the Arab nations to do whatever including funding terrorist...and done nothing about it...our leaders have just kept right on with policies that have driven this country to the place it is now...its time for change...but our congress will not allow much in that direction no matter what Obama does or wants to do...oil and lobbyist control this country...if you don't think so ..look at who benefits from most of what your elected pass in the way of taxes or any other bills...everything gets watered down to about nothing that might do any good for the citizen of this country.

The Iran election controversy is generating interesting blowback. The Shiite Ayatollahs speaking in God's name are themselves heretics. Shiites are considered infidels by Sunni Muslims. After the liberation of Iraq, Shiites, the majority of population, have increased their power to the point of near control of Iraq. The only thing holding together the mosaic of Iraq is US troops. Sunni leaders and states are terrified of a Shiite expansion in the region. Already, Iranian-sponsored Hizbullah have formed deep contacts with HAMAS, the Sunni Palestinian terrorist group. With all the embarassment soon to be generated by the repressive, unlawful, and un-Islamic actions of the Iranian Ayatollahs, Shiism will suffer a blow to prestige that may thwart their regional ambitions. It may be that Iranian muslims will convert to Sunni traditions, to escape the awful tyranny that their religion has unleashed. We are witnessing the suicide of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

people like you that think everything can be solved with a few nukes here and a few nukes there, are just as nuts, that are totally incapable of rational thinking. You are in the same league as these radical clerics that want to kill the protesters. you think everyone in these countries think like these radicals, you think there are no children there that have no fault in this, Sure drop a nuke here or there, sure narrow mind solution to everything. So I do hope if some other bird brain , should act on this ludacrest idea decides to do it, they put you well within the target area.

And just in case bird brain, I am a conservative, a moderate but conservative, you? God you are beyond even the radical conservatives, you don't have the mental capacity.

did I once hear, "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Not so crazy is it, tree hugging lunatics!

Jim

I dont think we have to worry about Iran getting nuclear weapon capability. I think the Israel's said a while back they will not allow it to happen. Once the Iranians are close to getting a nuclear weapon the Israels will make sure it doesnt get off the ground. And if its one thing history has shown over the years is Israel doesnt just talk tough when it comes to their safety

I dont think we have to worry about Iran getting nuclear weapon capability. I think the Israel's said a while back they will not allow it to happen.

Really! How do they have any say in the matter?

richard, it was well known at the time that the great leaders and their minions were eliminating crazy radicals that were dangerous to their vision for the future and the change they were prepared to enact for the good of the common citizen. Nothing really changes except the names and dates and the number of people who don't recognize the historical precedent for government excess. Government equals oppression, bigger more powerful government allows for more abuse.

Your figures are low. Hitler killed more than 20 millions and Stalin well over 60 millions, during the war before and after

If Stalin had only had more money he could have done better. He was grossly underfunded. And don't forget they had government run health care, housing and manufacturing the government produced cars were swell, I am sure it really wasn't so bad.

If Hitler took the Gold and Stalin took the silver.....who won the Bronze?

Pol Pot

Opps sorry scratch that forgot about Chairman Mao Tse Tung rounding up the trifecta with a whopping 50-70 millions killed.

Hmmm that possibly puts Chairman Mao in the gold spot.

Iran's top legislative body, the Guardian Council, said it had found no major violations in the election, which it called the "healthiest" vote since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

That's like Hitler saying he was better than Stalin because he only killed 6 million people not 10.

Or like saying Bush "won" in 2000.

It's good to see some people are waking up. Carlos Toadvine is on the right track. All governments are systems of control, in the guise of executing the General Will. Many people have accepted this lie as a religious truth. But in fact, "they" in control are not "us," never have been, never will be. "They" are in Power because they love Power, and they will do anything to gain it, and even worse to keep it. Our only defense if Free Thought. Even that is too much to ask of most Americans. They would rather have ideas spoon-fed through appropriate Party channels, than have to question, or God forbid, THINK!

Revolution begins in the mind. If you can believe you are free, you have the potential achieve freedom. Once you are truly free, help to free others.

Carlos Toadvine,

You are absolutely right..The left in this country is sitting on the fence post right now here in our country...They want one party rule..I don't think it's healthy for any government to have absolute rule.. I have been shouted down be for for advocating this ,but i sometimes wish we had a coalition type government...This way each and every bill would be scrutinized.. This bs where the President (no matter what party is in power) forces their view of how things should be,rather than the way the people want it done is bad... Look how divided this country is,it's not race either,it's uncontrolled spending...

The left in this country is sitting on the fence post right now here in our country...They want one party rule..I don't think it's healthy for any government to have absolute rule..

In case you missed it Carlos, this is democracy. You know, that thing Republics say they love...until it works against them.

You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.----- Abbie Hoffman

That sounds like a Thought Crime. Be careful, Big Brother is watching you!

I have an absolute right to freedom of coscience. Even without the Constitution, I have this right. It is a Natural Right, a right belonging to all sentient beings. I thin, therefore I am. My thought is my conscious mind, or conscience. It is my right as owner of this tool to use it as I see fit. My thoughts are nobody's business.

I agree!

I hate to keep sounding like a broken record but this is a prime example of why we should be drilling our OWN OIL! We now know that we have the largest oil deposits in the world. It would be a boom to our pitiful economy and would allow us to deal with the Evil Empires of Iran and N. Korea (which we will have to anyway at some point in time) in a much stronger position. This event shows what kind of people we are dealing with. They don't care about their people and if they slaughter a few thousand, so what! I just read where they cut off the hands and feet of some petty thiefs for stealing cell phones in Somilia. This is the muslim thinking and mindset that we must deal with. The day of decision is coming rapidly with Israel and Iran. Israel will not allow a crazy regeime like Iran to have the BOMB! Neither would I.

camel jockey clerics

Gee, I really, really, REALLY hate to burst your bubble, but "camel jockey" is a racial epithet that does not apply to Indo-European Iranians.

Americanvet, you are right. Something must be done. Already, America has fought and won a war in Iraq, and new troops are pouring into Afghanistan. The Pakistanis are fighting in the mountains. The end is close. I can't wait to see bin Ladins head on a pike. Al Zawihiri too, and mullah Omar. For sure, and there's more. Clean battlefield killings, no trial, no lawyers, no prison. Blood for blood.

Something is happening in Iran. The Ayatollahs are messing up big time. They just keep doing what they are doing, the Iranians will start to attack police and soldiers. Getting the first gun is the hardest. Once there is a real Revolution in Iran, US can help as much as the We the People desire. As far as attcking Iran, it would be a cinch. Battleships and cruisers are in the Persian Gulf. Aircraft carriers are nearby in the Arabian Sea. US is ready for war. What we don't want is to provide an external enemy, to divert the Iranian People from the real target, their oppressors. It would be an insult to their pride to intervene now. They still have to claim ther revolution, then they can invite US as a friend. But They will not let US troops occupy one inch of Iran.

What? No Venezuela?? Comrade Chavez will feel left out !!

And Russia and China LOVES ALL THE PEOPLE IN THESE "WORLDS"!!!! Stop and THINK, people!

With Russia and China actually PROMOTING the totalitarian regimes of "all countries listed heretofore", there is some mighty big fire power behind these DICKS!

With the possible exception of North Korea, this saga promises to unfold in a most troublesome and even more precedent setting manner than ever thought.

I am so very GLAD that President Obama has the foresight and wisdom to hold his tongue and refrain from "meddling" when some many others would have literally JUMPED at the chance to literally THROW the U.S. into this mess and under the bus.

Whatever AhmadINTHEHEAD, Mr. AyatollyoMAMA and the ruling elite of Iran are TRYING to say and claim relative to accusations of America's "meddling", the entire world has now had the opportunity to see Iran's leaders for what they really are. . .RELIGIOUS, WAR MONGERING, RACIST, OPPRESSIVE, SUB-MENTAL, BACK-ASS-WARD, LIARS!

Again, SOMETIMES, walking quietly and carrying a big stick works BETTER than being a BLOW HARD WITH NO AIR! I just wish Mr. McCain and other "haters" would have kept their traps shut!

No matter. What will be, will be. The Middle East has always been divisive and contentious, and that WILL not change until something of Biblical proportions transpires.

I don't like to prophesy doom and gloom events. I will simply say, our world is shrinking and dividing even as we stand here.

I would like to ask a question. Does anyone on this board think that if it all comes down to world-war event, the U.S. will ultimately resort to internment camps for citizens of Russian, Chinese, Korean, Iraqi, Iranian, et al decent? Does the fact that we are so very integrated and multi-national makes that notion plausible on any level? We've done it before to the Japanese Americans, right? I'm just curious and would like to hear from someone or anyone who might have experienced that event or someone who has an INTELLIGENT response to offer. For the record, all IDIOTS are excused from taking the test. You were already graded on a curve and you fell off!

Thanks in advance for you time and input.

Bouncer:

So true, so true! Besides fear what would they do?? They certainly can't execute a the million people who have protested. Hopefully they will be finished soon so the country can move on!!!

Actually mass murder is not out of the playbook for oppressive government types. Thinking that they cant execute a million or so protesters is rather naive. During the purges in the old soviet union people stood in line to take a shot in the back of their head, the executioners worked long days shooting people one after the other, the Germans in the 40's found shooting people was stressful so they went to gassing the hated minorities. Strangely enough the shooters in Stalin's regimekilled more people, it just goes to show a highly motivated administrator can get the job done with limited technology. Don't underestimate a motivated tyrant who thinks they know better than the people they oppress.

They are going to execute the leaders of the demonstrations. Who wants to make a bet? I bet that the first one they execute is going to "confess" that he was convinced by the US or Great Britain to organize these demonstrations and he was paid for it.

ANY TAKERS??????

I know that I'm going to get flak for saying this but I consider Islam the most dangerous religion in the world today.

Charles the Hammer crushed the Islamic advance on Europe. His name came from his ruthless destruction of the Muslim invasion which resulted in a Muslim retreat and subsequent halt in any further invasion of Europe.

Unfortunately, Islam has crept into the fabric of European society through politics and in the name of religious freedom. Yes, there are many Muslims who embrace peace; however, there is a large radical core which exists and co-exist is not in their vocabulary.

Islam succeeded in Iran yet it's ironic that Iranians historically hate Arabs; Iranians are Persians. Islam came from the Arab world and Iran is an example on how Islam can encroach in a country and basically take over, discouraging and eventually eliminating any other spiritual practices in that country.

That's the goal of radical Muslims; and the majority of peaceful Muslims would fall under their yoke if they gained power. I would consider their strategy as a principle of mass-convert as many as possible, select those who embrace the radical side and eventually take over.

This, to me, presents a major threat to the entire world. Already radical Muslims have made attempts to incorporate Muslim law within existing western laws i.e England. I find this frightening and any such attempt must be crushed.

We could learn from Charles the Hammer's tactics-no quarter, no compromise.

No flack from me. I agree.

Not to mention it took Vlad the Impaler to stop the muslim advance from the east.

Don't underestimate a motivated tyrant who thinks they know better than the people they oppress.

Like Cheney?

I agree.....seems I've read alot of posts from people who are angry because Pres. Obama has taken a very guarded approach to the revolution. It's not like he's moving troops......even though alot of people want him to.

This whole thing rings of desperation by the clerics.

I have seen photos of protesters, ( post Neda murder) and it seems that the Iranian women have turned out in droves. When the government starts killing this many women, I think we will be amazed at the sh!t storm that develops. The whole world is watching.

Perhaps this is what the "powers that be" desire.....a country without women.

*To our Iranians sisters.....we have seen your strength, and we admire your bravery. Neda will never be forgotten because you have put her name into history. You are the ones who will change your destiny. God bless all of you. Allah smiles on you.

Pam you are reading posters and not all agree with them. The bleeding heart liberals...I mean conservatives...should really worry about home more than Iran.

I agree with the comment that Pres. Obama has done nothing for the Iranian clerics to "blame" this situation on. I also hold that he is doing the right thing. The Iranian people are in the midst of a civic war, and it is not our place to interfere......yet.

For so long the United States of American has held the dubious title of being one of the world's police. It has left us with mounting contempt from some governments, and has encouraged dependancy from others. The Iranian people who are fighting for their rights, will suffer great loss, as we did during our own civil war. But if we intervene at this point, will we hurt their process more than help? I think so

It is possible for me to agree with a statement made from another poster, without agreeing with his arguement. And yes, I read other posters......I want to understand the viewpoints of others, even if I don't agree with the entire content.

What exactly WAS your point?

The US should not be the world police. That is what we did in Iraq and have been paying for since. Meanwhile we have people still on the unemployment line and can not even give an adequate response to a hurricane. Time to let Iran handle Iran and so forth. Sticking our nose in has already had them pointing fingers. I can not help laugh at Republicans who two weeks ago were saying "waste those sandy whatever" now acting as tree hunging humanitarians.

The protesters in Iran who are fighting for democracy and freedoms are also muslims. Islam is not the problem. It's the people who hide behind religion in order to opress and control others who are the problem.

And ban christianity too. Then we would be getting somewhere!?

islame is a cult-----thats just a stupid thing to say

Organized religion is a powerful tool used by many cultures. Sad thing is that most of those who wield this sword are not interested in peace and harmony, but power and money. Religion has been the impetus for more death and war, than any other "cause" in the history of man on this planet.

It is our individual freedom to worship whom, and how we choose...but this freedom is lost when we start coercing others to worship as we do. The is no spirituality when there is hate.......Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Scientology..etc, etc.......extremists in all religions have been guilty of sins against humanity.

Your right. They are just a bunch of murderous thugs and old fashioned gangsters.

Pam, you are not thinking rationally, though it is rational thought you seem to want to promote. Buddhism and Christianity are NONviolent. Judaism and Islam are violent. This is not to say people who say they believe can't be nasty and violent. They can. But nothing in Buddha's words or Jesus' words allows for the use of violence. To the contrary. You are commanded to love your enemy. Buddha says that hate is not conquered by hate but by love. Jesus says love your enemy, those who despise you. Mohammed (who slept with a 9 year old girl when he was in his 50s and who was violent himself) allows for violence, promotes it. So does Judaism and so does Hinduism. Islam is dangerous because unlike Hinduism and Judaism, it promotes conversion, by force if necessary. So, it is intellectual sloppiness to say all religions are the same. In fact, Buddha and Christ are much more nonviolent than that apostle of nonviolence in philosophy, Socrates, who said "violence negates reason." So let's keep rational. Read. Read that Koran and see for yourself. Christ forgives the adulteress; Islam prescribes whipping and beating. Christ converts by love, Islam by force if nothing else works, or by murdering nonbelievers.

SKYVAM.....my friend.....the Christian conversion, historically has been anything but Christian. If nothing else, look up the Spanish Inquisition in Europe, Salem trials

Dude, the invasion of the Spanish in South America resulted in the eradication of an entire culture!

Just start there.....the Internet is a wealth of information. Use it.

Miss Pam. "Historically" for Chistian conversion is a little bit of a stretch don't you think? Maybe just a couple of years of error out of 2000? Compare that with the murderous history of the wonderful muslim religion. I'll take old Christianity any day compared to that stuck in time islam mess. As for Salem, come on , most of that was just an isolated, short lived mistake caused by a few creepy, bored, oddball girls that fabricated a bad scene and got a few innocent ladies killed. It turned out that a few of those ladies were witches anyway. Don't even try to compare real Christianity to real Islam. No contest. That's why the muslims are always so ticked off all the time, they wish that they could convert to Chistianity but they will get their heads chopped off.

Pam,

You have repeated the oft-used mantra: "Religion has been the impetus for more death and war, than any other "cause" in the history of man on this planet." What are the facts behind this? National Geographic ran a great feature a few years ago detailing the largest genocides in history. The largest magnitudes by an enormous margin were committed in the name of atheism (events under Stalin in Russia, Mao in China, and Pol Pot in Cambodia being some at the top of the list).

Many atrocities have been committed in the "name" of Christ.  When a Christian commits murder or other abuse in the name of his "religion" his actions are inconsistent with his professed beliefs. When an atheist acts a tyrant or murderer, his actions are entirely consistent with his beliefs (i.e, that we are simply the product of millions of years of change occurrences and survival-of-the-fittest evolution). In fact you could argue (as Hitler and Stalin did) that they are helping promote a more fit population. Note that Hitler used and stirred up Christian anti-Semitism as a tool for his own power, but was personally a devout pagan. Note also that anti-Semitism is entirely inconsistent with a true Christian belief as the "gentiles" were grafted in to God's family through Israel, but the work of the a Jew (Christ).

On the flip-side of history, the largest benevolent force in history is indisputably Christianity. That is entirely consistent with Christian belief that each person is created in the image of God with inherent value. Meanwhile secular humanists struggle to account for the propensity for benevolence as they come up with wacky theories that try to balance our "selfish gene" with the social benefits of sacrificial service.

No Jesus

No Muhammed

Peace.

John Lennon said it best... and no religion too.... what would there be left to fight over except resources that can be fairly traded?

PB&J,

In theory that sounds good - used to even believe it myself. A bit of a problem is that it completely ignores recent history that demonstrates the opposite. Soviet Russia (under Stalin) and China (under Mao) were both intended to demonstrate how great society could be free from "religion." What could go wrong? Tens of millions killed. In China as well numerous other countries Christians are being tortured and killed in the name of atheism.

The reality is that evil exists and has been propagated both in the name of, and in opposition to religion. Pretending that reality is false does not make it go away. Similarly, when you or I die, what we believe is going to be irrelevant - the only thing that will matter is what is true.

Pam. I don't use the "Internet" for information. I do use it for research with proven data bases and I read books. I don't make silly comments such as the one you have made, that ChristIANS have misbehaved. Of course. Duh. But in the New Testament, you WILL NOT FIND any justification for violence. And you will not find it in Buddhist teachings. But the Koran has it. So, Pam, try reading and take a course in elementary logic. When Muslims beat women for adultery, or kill them, Mohammed prescribes it in the Koran; Christ forgives. When Muslims tax nonMuslims more than Muslims, Mohammed allowed for this systemic violence; Never Christ, never Buddha. So compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Not the words to the followers, who are flawed. I was comparing word to word and action as consonant with the words. But silly me, just being logical at an elementary level.

No, just a world without islam. None of the other worl religions have exploding people and behead and dismember their own. You right about their islam god. Their god is the opposite of a good god.

No, just a world without islam. None of the other worl religions have exploding people and behead and dismember their own. You right about their islam god. Their god is the opposite of a good god.

Ever hear of Ireland?

BTW, it's the same God.

Doncha love ignorance?

Rick D, what do you say to the people of the area formerly known as Burma, now Myanmar????

Sorry Ask & Don't. The Irish never exploded or beheaded anyone. Burma Myanmar are small and insignificant in the big picture. Don't cherry pick stuff. Christianity slam dunks islam anytime.

Doncha love it when you hear the truth when your hardheaded?

Are you KIDDING me? The Irish never exploded anyone? That's laughable AND ignornant. They are STILL bombing people because Christians can't abide Christians there! So, this protestant walks in to a bar with a catholic... Come on. The Irish Mafia in New York? Duh.

But he does point to the essence of Islam: that these "clerics" of a religion founded by a 50 somthing year old man who had sex with a 9 year old "wife,"

Hell yah, Warren Jeffs has nothing on them!

Paduki,

Well that is all well and good except for one small thing..The protesters have no guns..The government has..How would you expect they win?

There are people in this country who are working very hard to disarm the American citizens...No way to protect your self you become a slave... History has proved this over and over...

Ghandi did it. The Iranians can do it too. I say they all stock up, then stay home. The Dictator has no country without the people he wants to punish. There is no dictator if the people don't allow for it. The people need to take back their country and they CAN do it peacefully. Their fate is in their hands.

It certainly keeps the folks in power from coming up with the following idea...

Kill all the people who disgree with you: THEN have the election.

You begin your post by saying the clerics should be executed and then say that only satan would direct people to kill others.......................am i the only one seeing this as a contradiction?

no,you're not the only one

Blue/nameless. It's not a contadiction. You know what globug means. He makes a valid point. It would be a good thing for all of the peaceful muslims if the "holy " clerics would just vanish.

Send the Clerics to France. They're trying to kick out the Scientologists now, then they can clean up their Islamic Extremist mess next.

I agree- in this day and age having a Supreme Leader is a little - medieval. Were he benevolent it would be one thing, but he and his ilk are not. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

SNAPPA,

You want Obama to call them out? What's he going to do yell at them? Words only hurt your feeling, bullets and bombs are what settles disagreements..

Did you happen to read the article in the financial section this a.m. on Bill Clinton? Granted Bush finished the job, but your beloved Bill Clinton is the one who started it. The democrats got the ball rolling on our financial mess.

I don't think Obama has got the moxie to deal with Iran. He wants to handle everything by being nice. These clerics do not play nice. That is how naive Obama is. His words during the election could really come back to bite him.

Joyce I believe Pres Obama has the moxie to do whatever needs to be done. He has shown that he takes action only after careful consideration of all of the possible repercussions. If you think he is naive, you are seriously underestimating him.

Overture would be premature at this time but now we should strike? Say what Snappa?

Let's just send in the CIA to whack the Supreme Leader like we did successfully with Castro. (Not)

Let's just send in the CIA to arm and train the people like we did in afghanistan. (The Taliban are still thanking us...)

We are fighting a war in Iraq. Afghanistan. We have forces all over Central and South America. Korea. The Pacific. Africa is a hotbed of activity and getting worse by the day.; We are spread about as thin as we can get without breaking- and let history show that when an empire spreads it's military too thin without proper refreshment of supply lines the empire falls.... What do you suggest we sacrifice for the people of Iran who won't take matters in to their own hands? I say Obama is right. Give words of support for their people, tell it like it is to their faulty government, and let them take matters in to their own hands. We will be blamed no matter what- if we do nothing for failure to save them, if we intervene, for messing with their sovereignty. I support the struggle and effort of the Iranian people to change their theocratic state but I am not willing to sacrifice my own country over it.

Kill all the rioters?!? That's 12 kinds of crazy!! That alone would have had me questioning my vote for ahmadinnerjacket.

Makes me glad to be a Canadian!!

Kill all the rioters?!? That's 12 kinds of crazy!! That alone would have had me questioning my vote for ahmadinnerjacket

Makes me glad we can talk about it.

Well said !

Good job, rice pudding...........(yum....I LOVE rice pudding!)

Please STOP misinterpreting the The First Amendment! It has nothing to to do with what is now coined as separation of church and state. Our founding fathers did not call for a separation of church and state in fact embraced the church whole heartidly and God was a cornerstone in all they did.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Hey keldon,

You forgot to mention that the reason the Founding Fathers separated church and state was not only so Gov't couldn't establish a state religion but also so that the church would not be allowed to direct state affairs or establish state policy. It was first established by Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists and was derived from both the section on Establishment of Religion and Exercise of Religion.

Jesus said "Give Caesar's things to Caesar, and God's things to God."
Perhaps the original reference to a separatation of church and state from the ultimate Christian authority on the matter.

Excellent! What is absolutely clear, in terms of Biblical prophesy, is that the "enmity between My seed and Your seed" issue will not be solvable or resolvable by any human being, rather ONLY by God in the manner He most thoroughly outlined.

God promises that His seed will prevail in the final showdown between "God" and "Satan".

As to the human, society, religious and international players in that showdown, throw an arrow at the Middle East on the map. . .anywhere you choose, and you've identified at least ONE of them.

The prophesy is so complex, yet the events leading up to and including this Final War, are laid out step by step in scripture. We simply cannot and will not know the date and time, nor do we know exactly who or what represents all of the earthy participants.

People have tried time and time again to pinpoint or prophesy the date of this event based on world conditions ALSO outlined in scripture. While it is hard NOT to think we are very close to the "End", it certainly feels and reads like we're there. But then again, that's what people said at the time of the Great Depression, World Wars I and II, and on numerous occasions hence.

I suppose all we can do is to keep our eyes towards Heaven, and trust that in His own due time, God's prophesy will come to pass. After all, it is God that know the day and time, not even the Son knows this.

Exciting and alternately disturbing times we're living in. What is to come is NOT going to be pretty. Prayer is my default position along with continued faith in Father God and my Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

I pray that God's will be done!