Jesus this is a bad idea. Drunk people can in no way, properly control a firearm, exercise thier proper cognative functions, or even respond properly to events around them. I support gun ownership and rights but this is just a bad idea. It should be illegal to be intoxicated and have a firearm on one's person. I can accede that it would be fine for a person to be in a bar, sober, and armed, but not those who have been drinking.

Must be that Tennessee Whiskey they keep in their desks. Why would guns be allowed into a bar but write into the bill that you can't drink ? I guess what we get is like you said a" drunk with a loaded gun in pocket. Crazy actually beyond crazy. Where I am from you cannot carry a weapon in anyplace that service liquor period.

Guns in bars and guns in schools, both announced the same day. Two disasters in one day. Haven't we learned anything yet from the increased violence in this country?

Why would anyone be in a bar with a loaded gun and NOT be drinking....a restaurant maybe, but a bar? Or did they distinguish drinks only from drink/food establishments?

Time to get the hell out of the US with all of this nonsense going on.

What is the American obsession with guns? I'm American but moved to the Mid East 7 years ago and nobody has guns here (Arabian Gulf)... and our murder rate is a tiny fraction of the US one. I don't understand the American obsession with alcohol either but mixed with guns is just taking everything back to 1850. Crazy.

anti-trust -- Which country do you want to go and live in? I will buy you a one-way ticket if you promise never to come back.

THI -- It is not an obsession; it is a right.

It is a cultural identifier when it comes to the gun. The ancient nations of the world established themselves with the sword and martial prowess. America had no such distinction as we were formed in the age of the gun. All cultures from all periods in time have always identified themselves by their warriors and soldiers. When you think of Europe, you think of the Knight, Japan the samurai, Rome the legionnaire. America just happens to identify itself culturally to the rifle infantryman. It is the form of our martial bearing and that we consider to be manly, heroic, and romantic, even if that's not really the case.

How about ban cars from the parking lot of bars, seems people have killed more with them and its still legal to take a car to a bar and leave to intoxicated to drive.

If by legal you mean, getting arrested for DUI, sure.

Kim,

It's a right and an obsession. Just because we have a right to bear arms, doesn't mean we should do something stupid like encourage people to take their gun with them while they're drinking.

Another example of how common sense is not all that common any more.

Sure Kim, it's a right. The right to be an idiot.

You want to carry a gun? Good for you. It IS a right.

You want to carry one while getting intoxicated? Let me know where you'll be, so I can avoid your altered consciousness and judgement.

Foolish foolish foolish. CARS and alcohol don't mix, what idiot thnks GUNS and alcohol SHOULD?!

Well, Fred, I won't be intoxicated. Period.

OUShark, I have guns and I am not obsessed. Neither are my friends who bear arms.

Guns are a right. You better hope that this right is never taken from you.

Kim - good for you. Care to vouch for the rest of the state who'll be packing? I'm sorry, if you're armed, you have ZERO business becoming intoxicated. ZERO.

Actually, Kim, I'm an avid hunter and outdoorsman and I've been advocating outlawing handguns for years. I've seen enough of our children killed in schools, at home, walking down the street, by handguns. They have absolutely no purpose other than killing other people. You will get my full support if someone tries to outlaw rifles and shotguns. But I quite buying the NRA garbage a long time ago. And that is one right you can have if it saves any of our young lives.

If I wanted to kill someone and did not have a gun, I am quite sure I could do it.

Examples: hammer or 2 x 4 to the back of the head, stabbing, choking, poisoning, etc. Banning guns will not stop people from killing. If one wants someone dead, be it young or old, they will be killed.

Exeder

If by legal you mean, getting arrested for DUI, sure.

Arrested for DUI after the accident that kills? Too many times it happens that way.

Kim iam sure you could find away to kill if your gun was not handy,but while you were thinks which way to kill a stranger for probly questionable reasons they would have left the bar thus saving you from working up a sweat.

"The legislation that takes effect July 14 retains an existing ban on consuming alcohol while carrying a handgun, and restaurant owners can still opt to ban weapons from their establishments."

Imagine preventing gunowners from forming a 'well-regulated militia' within a bar or restaurant?

"Sorry, son, you're packing heat. I cannot serve liquor to you." BLAM, BLAM, BLAM...

"Sorry, sir, in order for me to sit you in my restaurant, you'll have to leave your gun and holster in your car." BLAM, BLAM, BLAM...

Only in America...

This is my post on page 2, just in case you think I agree with the law.

Being a Tennessean, I am truly concerned about this law. But, those who want to bring firearms in bars will do so regardless of the law. It is done everyday, in every state.

I have several fire arms at my house for recreation and protection. I would never even think of carrying one into a bar, school, church, etc.

For those of you who think Tennesseans are backward, you really don't know Tennesseans. Maybe our elected officials are, but not the general population.

brian-898070

Or shot you..then left the bar.

Kim: I am from TN, too, and I am APPALLED by the new law. I think it is stupid beyond belief and believe, as many people I know do, that alcohol and guns DON'T mix. I hate the NRA and wish with a passion that lobbyists were illegal. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Now I won't be able to go into Chili's, Red Lobster, Appleby's, etc... with my family without fear of some dumbazz at the bar, who has had one too many, who's got a gun. If the bartender see's the gun, he has the right to ask the person to leave. GOD FORBID they don't and get mad. What a freaking mess. I don't believe the framers of the Constitution had this BS in mind when they drafted it. They just wanted for Americans to be able to defend themselves against the British as they were unable to keep their own guns. Not this BS where they could have drunks with guns in restaurants with kids.

THI, that's because in the Middle East, they cut off your hand if you steal, cut off your head if you kill. Since criminals have more rights here than the average citizen, that's why we have more crime. Therefore, responsible citizens do have the right to protect themselves.

This reminds me of a song.

Thank you Jack Daniels Old Number Seven
Tennessee Whiskey got me drinking in heaven
I know I can't stay here to long
Cause I can't go a week with out doin' wrong

Another step backward. At first, I figured it was just TN, land of the ridge runners, stomp jompers, etc., you know the old saws - think Granny from Beverly Hillbillies. But 37 other states allow this also? Go figure.

addiem-

It just shows you the reach and influence of the NRA.

Let's take a close look at who is committing all the handgun violence and then make it illegal for them to possess a firearm. Is it the law abiding citizen that obtains a concealed carry permit that is committing all the drive by shootings, the armed pharmacy robberies, the killing of police officers in the street?

Look at the level of gun violence in the cities that have banned firearms, obviously disarming the law abiding citizen is not the answer.

Kim,

I don't own a gun myself. I've just never felt comfortable with one in my hand. However that doesn't mean I think anyone else should be stopped from having them.

Like you, I would never dream of taking a weapon of any sort to a bar. But evidently, there are those that do. And now they are able to. You had said that we don't have an obsession with guns, and yet we are wanting to take them everywhere with us, regardless of whether or not it's appropriate or safe. I think that we certainly have the obsession (as well as the right), given the huge issue we have with using guns as we should be, for hunting, for sport (in some cases) and in the protection of ourselves. Right now I feel safe going to a bar here because I know that if a fight does break out, it's probably just going to involve fists. I would not be able to have that same assurance in Tennessee any more.

Of course the second amendment right to keep and bear arms is hated and feared by the Liberals……After all, the Founding Fathers desire was to prevent tyranny! They should be scared!

Why are you worried. French guns don't kill people...ask the Germans.

3-5 days ago, a gunmen robs a st. louis bar, shooting and killing the bartender( 25 yr old). if some one in that bar would have been carrying a gun, other than the punk as$ robber, the robber may have not escaped( yet to be found).

They probably wouldn't have died if a student was allowed to legally carry a gun for self-defense either.

The solution to a threat is not always "just run away". Hard for the French to understand that.

go to tennessee.gov and scroll through the requirements to carry a handgun, then complain about people who LEGALLY carry guns.

When states began allowing concealed carry in the 1980's the Brady campaign,Handgun Control etc. claimed it would be a disaster,the streets would run red with blood,the country would revert back to the wild wild west..............20 years later and more than 30 states allowing concealed carry no shootouts in the streets yet ,sure ,there are killings,but not by CCW permit holders.In fact more than a few,several thousand actually have stopped violent criminals from hurting innocent people.

People that get concealed carry permits are probably some of the most conscientious responsible people in the country.

I agree,guns and alcohol don't mix,actually alcohol doesn't mix with anything.But the law states you can't carry if you are drinking,what should be done is add a severe penalty for carrying while intoxicated, make it a felony, will the streets run red with blood? The brady bunch also said the same thing after the repeal of the assault weapons ban in 2004, the only place there are any big gun battles with military type weapons is Mexico,but thats a whole different situation.

enzelow76, it's unfair to the other side to use facts. Unfair, I say!

I wonder what excuse they'll come up with if there's a raised rate in drunk shootings.

Kim:

Which country do you want to go and live in? I will buy you a one-way ticket if you promise never to come back.

Will you buy me a one-way ticket? Any European country is fine. I have no problem promising to never come back. Despite being born and raised here, I don't recognize America any more. I don't like the country it has become and actually fear the country it is becoming.

Can I get one of those too??? (Goes and packs bags)

Recreational use of firearms is an enjoyable past time for some of us. Many of us never intend to use firearms in self-defense or open warfare. Anyone who has ever thrown darts, shot bows and arrows, or even played basket ball, pool, or any other sport that requires skill in accuracy, can understand and appreciate shooting firearms. When done properly, recreational shooting teaches patience, safety, and responsibility.

Beyond that, there is a measure of security in carrying a firearm. It is also a good idea to be trained in firearm usage, if only to know and understand proper firearm safety to prevent or reduce accidental deaths. It is also useful if someone finds themselves in circumstances that requires them to hunt an animal for food. Granted in this day and age the odds of that are small, but being prepared has never hurt anyone.

I totally agree LU. This thng with being able to carry guns around with you.... seems like one of those... Little Dick, Big Gun.... so I am a REAL Man despite my shortcomings???

You can't have an open bottle of booze in a car while you're driving, but you can take a gun into a bar as long as you cross your heart and hope to choke, that you won't drink...

Typical NRA bull@!$%# if you ask me.

They won't let you where a hat in a bar, but they're going to allow guns?

Some people might wish to compensate for what they believe they are lacking in, but not all gun owners are that way. Those who feel the need to compensate usually are not the most amiable of people. It was likely they never were able to accept the ability to ignore the judgements of others and took that criticism to heart.

The measure of a man is in his actions, not the caliber of his revolver.

Exeder, I agree, but... try to tel that to a drunk gunslinger, that's hung like a gnat!!!

On the surface, this may sound bad, but a shady characted is going to carry one anyway, anywhere, any how. This probably makes it legal now for a responsible person to carry one. Like I said, the crook already is carrying his.

That's what you NRA haters need to learn.

try to rob a bar in Israel sometime.

This probably makes it legal now for a responsible person to carry one.

Skiddy,

Anyone who is taking a gun into a bar is not someone I would say was "responsible."

citizens that carry guns(legally) are not morons, unlike some of you. concealed weapon permits are not just bought at wally world in the sporting goods section.

Holly, the article doesn't seem to make a distinction between employees and patrons. I find myself on the side of the NRA like 99% of the time, and wish they would come to my town soon, but in this case I do have my concerns. I tend to go to bars that one would not consider rowdy, usually casual, family run places, but I have seen my share of fights. Usually, these are caused by the combined inability of someone to hold their liquor, with their apparent inability to hear. Trust me, nobody's getting robbed. No life is threatened. But there are cases I'm certain that if one of these guys had a gun, and remembered he had it, the person who wound up getting shot would be either the person trying to break up the fight, or some ten year old kid, sitting over in the restaurant side. If it was just for the owners / bartenders, I wouldn't object.

Holly... what are you suggesting... that a bar owner should shoot someone that's acting up in his bar? What ever happened to just calling a cop?

I can see the bar owner pulling out heat if he's being robbed, but for a drunk.... not sure that's the only recoruse. Sorry.

No the article doesn't Robin, but reading through it, I'd have to say that it does not make a distinction. Hopefully most of the restaurant owners, if not bar owners too, will exercise the option of forbidding weapons within the establishment.

My question though relates to how a bartender or waiter/waitress is going to know whether they are serving a gun-toting person alcohol? Or does TN and the other 37 states require that the guns be visible?

NO. If they see the gun, they have a right to ask you to LEAVE. That's where the trouble comes in. It's supposed to be CONCEALED.

for those of you who have never carried a concealed weapon, guns must be very well concealed. shirts, jackets, pants, etc. should not bulge or protrude. nor should any part of a holster show,straps, buckles, etc. .

I'm sorry but that was funny.

Steve, i am not sorry: that was funny. But; if you read the law: if you consume alcohol, and are carrying, you are in violation of the law, subject to fine, imprisonment, and revocation of permit.

In Wv., open carry is legal. Carry into a bar, if you are working, is legal. If you are a patron, no. What I find curious ; it's illegal to carry into a public building ( ie. courthouse, govt. offices), but legal to carry into a bank. Hmmm. Been tempted?

Burton, consider me a kindred spirit. I'm an Alabamian very much imprisoned by the same libertarian political culture.

I don't know whether the decision is entirely stupid though. I mean, the issue of firearms should be a constitutional, not a statutory one. There should be broad categories that are universally legal or illegal.

Having a million little, statutory laws... saying a handgun can go into a fast food restaurant, but not a steakhouse... a person carrying a firearm has access to a full drink menu or not... any combination of micromanagement just makes the law incomprehensible.

The problem is that the states have gone about it all wrong. A difinitive decision needs to be made, preferably at the national level, concerning the second amendment. The logic has long been to let the states sort it out themselves. This is what we get: Stupid, trifling laws that only polarize the electorate without giving one side anything or taking anything away from the other. Everybody feels embattled and sold out.

I'm willing to lose my side of the issue in a fair fight, provided its a fair and meaningful fight. I wish we'd go ahead and do something. If we need to talk about the second amendment, let's do it. I'm not satisfied with this simpering dance we do instead.

The only problem with what you are saying is: Where I live Guns are the norm I and everyone else here don't want to live by any gun law made up in DC. We have guys walk in the bar a few times a year always during hunting seasons with their gun and we always have a gun or two in the truck. So I think each and every stae should make their own laws. Oh and one other thing we have 0 gun crimes.

Mike, when I was in high school, it was not uncommon for students to go turkey hunting before school in the spring. Guys would have shotguns on their gun racks in the school parking lot, and we didn't have any shootings.

However, this does not mean I think it's a great idea. Saying "I don't want a gun law made up in D.C." makes a sort of sense, especially for people who live the farthest from East coast "elites."

My feelings are hard to sum up simply. I think our culture of local controls has made us weaker. Maybe it's because I live in a poor state with a retrograde political philosophy. I'll give you an example that we probably won't disagree with...

.................................................................................................................................................

I see Southern students underperforming (in all areas, but especially math and science) due to the peculiarity in which our state grades academic performance. The states are each allowed to set their own parameters and curricula. Our best students are laughable by the standards of more affluent states. The answer is not that rich kids are smarter than poor kids. We must have set the bar artificially low.

There's something systemically wrong. And it isn't wrong in my state alone. Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, practically the whole Deep South face the same perennial dilemma. We can fix it, but seem to lack the political will to do so.

If something happened and we each decided it was worthwhile to raise our standards, we could each enact individual solutions and improve by varying degrees. However, I think it would be easier if we all agreed on shared guidelines and worked toward the same goal. The easiest target would be a national standard - not the average of the individual states, but equal to the best ones.

I think this is an example where local control has failed. I'm sure people in exemplary school districts count it as an example where local control has triumphed. The point is local control often produces disparity.

..................................................................................................................................................

Granted, gun laws aren't the same thing. But the arguments for a standardized policy are the same. Our friends in Tennessee just inherited the most f***ed up law because people were afraid to make a solid decision. You yourself pointed out that the guns in bars does not constitute a crisis. I agree. So... Tennessee made this huge fuss over what? Nothing.

It isn't that Tennesseans are politically inept. The problem is that the more you miniaturize a sweeping issue, the more Balkanized its treatment becomes. If, instead of a bunch of stupid, trifling laws, we had just one meaningful one - that said either (A) guns are okay or (B) guns are not okay, we might be getting somewhere.

I prefer decisive laws. You might interpret that to mean that I prefer strong government. However, if you read my original comment, you'll see that I conceded that I'm okay with losing my fight. I prefer actually fighting it out in a meaningful way than all this stupidity over whether a handgun is okay at an O'Charley's.

I'm not writing to contradict you. I just wanted to expand my position. Please feel free to comment if you're not tired of the subject.

I understand somewhat what you are saying. But I think our country is out of touch with how diverse the people of this coutry are. I think city people think we all are city people when 80% of this country by area is not. I don't think many of the people that live in rural areas want city people making laws to basically intrude on our way of living. And New York doesn't go all the way to LA 80% of our great land is still forest, mountains and plains.

Dude, I feel you. Again, I live in Alabama. Doesn't get more rural than this.

Thanks for taking the time. Talk to you later.

Steech:

I'm willing to lose my side of the issue in a fair fight, provided its a fair and meaningful fight.

Wow. A mature, rational American.

Too bad more people aren't willing to apply your good sense to a variety of issues.

The really amazing part is that it is legal in 37 states!

Whats really amazing is in those other 36 or so states, nobody is really shooting up bars while drunk.

Geez, EAK, are you suggested actual crime statistics mean something?

The audacity!!!!

Nobody read the article...the part about the legistation retaining a ban on consuming alcohol while carrying.

i think everyone missed that That's Mo. you know, being in the second(?) paragraph and all.

We didn't miss it. It's just naive to think that someone is going to walk into a bar, with a gun, and NOT DRINK. Just like it's against the law to drink and drive. How's that law working for you?

It's working for me. I have Scotch in the pantry and a car in the garage and don't drive drunk.

Now, you answer. Have the other 36 states experienced a huge gun problem compared to the 13 "non-gun" states?

exactly. if the urge to drink and drive gets me, i grab a beer and cut grass. you morons need to go to tennesse.gov and look at the requirements. not all "hillbillies" can tote guns.

And since it's working for you, then the drunken driving problem is just a figment of our imagination?

I can't find the data on the other states, so I'll have to get back to you on that one.....

When you do find the data, you're going to find that it doesn't support you. Good luck.

i think drunk drivers that are involved in accidents that kill people should "mysteriously" die on their way to the hospital so taxpayers don't have to pay for worthless trials.

i love how people automatically assume everyone is as irresponsible as they are and will intentionally break laws. do you know what it takes to get a gun permit in TN?

I'm willing to accept the facts. It's just difficult to rap my senses around this. I thought we had left the wild west behind. Who knows? This could be the answer we are looking for.

I also don't buy the "hillbilly" generalization about Tennesse. I have friends there (Memphis) and visit there often and they are just "Americans". In a really beautiful state. My wife and I got married 24 years ago on a riverboat on the Mississippi so we have soft spot in our hearts for the place.

I hope they have a banjo player that knows the tune from Deliverance!!!

Now THAT would be a Hootenanny!!!

(Got Vaseline???)

like the world needs more of you city slickers that don't have a clue what goes on outside of the box you live in called "suburbia".

You want to know why we don't know what goes on outside of our "boxes"? Because nothing goes on outside of them. Oh yeah, except idiotic crap like this.

"all the way home to retrieve his gun"

That is hilarious!!

Maybe we're looking at this wrong, perhaps this State and others with similar laws could keep population in check this way?

Thank goodness I don't go to bars any more....?

Thats how we made Al Gore

Name calling doesn't help. All of us aren't morons. This azz wasn't in my district that introduced the bill. Probably one of the idiots who overrode the bill was and won't receive my vote. I lived up North in the military. Believe me, we haven't cornered the market on stupidity down here. It's just warmer. BTW, our governor is from Buffalo, so we must have some common sense.

I am a native Tennessean and I object to the sterotyping that we are stupid. I have a BS degree and graduated with high honors. My two sisters also graduated college with high/highest honors. My father was from Ohio but he never had the desire to return to the north side of the Mason-Dixon line.

Why would he want to move north, then he would have to live with all the jerks on this vine.

Plaxico committed an illegal act by possessing a gun.

He committed a dumb act by carrying the gun in an elastic waistband.

Borned on a mountaintop in tennessee

Greenest state in the land of the free

Raised in the woods so he knew every tree

Killed him a Bar' when he was only three

Davy, Davy Crockett

King of the wild frontier.

Yeeeeeeee Haaaaaaw! Drinks are on me boys!

Lol

Just wait. I think Rush's radio show is still on and the wingnuts are waiting to find out what they should think about this.....

I'm still waiting for someone to blame Obama for this....

See post #52 on page 3

Agreed. I like to shoot and I'm all for responsible gun ownership, but I don't see the upside to drunk, armed people. If some of the security people were carrying, that's another story, but bars are often very crowed and that's NOT a good place to be shooting.

No. You are dead wrong. A collective Brain Fart would require a Collective Brain.

everyone missed it. the part where one is not supposed to consume beverages while carrying a firearm is still there. tennessee.gov tells you what kind of individual can legally carry a gun.

No one missed anything. You missed the logic behind not drinking when you're in a bar. It's not going to happen.

just because you're irresponsibly does'nt mean everyone is.

do you know what it takes to legally carry a gun in TN?

Montego I doubt you are a life member of the NRA, there is no such thing as common sense firearm laws , that is a term coined by the anti gun crowd .

Enzelow that is where you are wrong, there are plenty of common sense firearm laws, this one is an exception which i will agree, but the public, needs to have their firearms to be able to defend against potential tyranny of our government which started in the bush administration which is going to get much worse under obama.

OU Shark, I differ. There are many responsible people who go to bars for the company, to watch a sporting event, and never drink. They are also called designated drivers.

There are responsible people who, if they are going to have a drink or two, will leave the guns home. Those who would carry and get drunk, will carry if it's legal or not - same mentality as a criminal, which makes them a criminal.

Where I live, there is a bar that you must give them your car keys before you get served. When you get ready to leave, you must tell them the password they gave you to get your keys. If you don't remember, they give you a cup of coffee, or a soda, and you wait. If you still can't remember, they call a cab, on their dime, and send you home. Makes sure all their customers get to come back. Designated drivers get free non alcoholic drinks. Even near- beer. I guess now we will also have designated shooters. Oh, come on - that was funny. Pun intended.

Naw, more likely a squabble over a can of Pork N' Beans.

As a Tennessean and a former bar owner, I can answer,Yes! Especially in this now broke state. Our glorious legislators this session have introduced over 140 bills relating to guns; 84 relating to education. Think we have our priorities straight?