What's really sad is when those in charge of law and order can kill unarmed people with impunity and face little or no consequences. Get this straight, a cops life is worth no more or less than a civilians life.

This stop was a routine Oakland look in a homeys car for Rope and dope. The man was a 2 timer and no going back boy and he made a choice. Die and he did.

The Drug laws are root of 98% of all Evil and we need to change them now!

>>>>The Drug laws are root of 98% of all Evil and we need to change them now! <<<<<

That's the most sensible thing I've seen written in this thread.

The two hardest jobs on this planet are police and soldier. You have a fraction of a second to decide if you shoot or don't. The problem is people do not listen you do not argue with the police if one tell you to stop slowly put your hands in the air. do not turn and do not move. There are to many crazy people with guns on this planet. When i get pulled over my hands go to the roof of the car and stay there. in the dark almost anything shinny can be mistaken for a gun. When you are on the ground or the police have control then you can voice your op ion but arguing when they are securing the situation is stupid. oakland is full of ganbanger and banger wantabees.

Shooter was Lovell Mixon, 27, of Oakland who was on parole for assault with a deadly weapon. Police said. He had no-bail warrant for his arrest for violating parole. He has prior convictions in Alameda County for grand theft and possession of marijuana.

Paul, how do you know it was a routine stop?

Need to keep these criminals locked up longer and off the street. Enforce the gun laws and crack down on illegal gun sales. Legalizing drugs is no answer that's a just an excuse. The drugs are root of 98% not the drug laws, get a life that's not chemically altered and wake up.

Its freaking disgusting that people taunted the officers in this situation.

My heart goes out to the families of those officers.

The people of the United States are not willing to do that which is necessary to stop violent crime in this country. Why are there violent offenders running free on our streets? This criminal had a no bail warrant out for his arrest and knew it. If he gets arrested he is going back to prison. He decided that he wasn't and this is national news now. If you are outraged by the fact that child molesters, rapist, violent criminals are continually released back into society. Then have you write your Senator, Governor, State Representative and demanded a more lethal system for dealing with these criminals. Our problem is we lack the conviction to do that which is necessary to end this problem. We do a greater evil, then even these criminals do. We knowingly release these predators back into society and wait for them to get caught after they commit more violent crimes and in most cases a few years go by and they are released to start the cycle again.

Since the American people lack the fortitude to kill these criminals that should never have been released back in to society we are just as guilty when they go out and commit murder, rape, child molestation and other violent crimes. We need a system that when there is proof positive of a person committing a violent crime and they are convicted they get 1 automatic appeal to a 7 man panel of judges who must unanimously agree that the evidence is strong enough to support the death penalty, which should then be carried out within 7 days of conviction.

Wow. Not the old West, guys. No cops should be outshot by a traffic offender.

Lovely-your elated. Maybe you can go to these officers funerals and tell their families how elated you are.

We have both a growing population and a society behavior that seems to never change. The human race is producing more chaff than ever before.

Bryan, you are an imbecile.  You are elated at the deaths of those enforcing the law?!  Without them you couldn't walk across the street to get a loaf of bread without worrying about criminals.  Who's going to enforce the law, you?  You obviously don't have the common sense God gave a dog.  The man was on parole, had been convicted of previous crimes, and was in the process of breaking the law (parolee + firearm = jail time ). 

You remind me of the old saying, "It's better for one to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."  You've certainly removed all doubt as to whether you're a fool, Bryan.  Go back to your drug-induced haze.

Bryan. Ok when someone breaks into your house or shoots at you or tries to rape your mother or, etc etc. DONT CALL THE COPS!! Handle it yourself. Obviosly you dont need the help of the police.

I wholeheartedly agree!  But I believe the better saying would be, Children should be seen and not heard, or, walk a mile in their shoes before you open mouth and insert foot :o)  My prayers to the officers families of these needless and tragic deaths. And God keep all the officers and soldiers safe in the world today. I happen to like the freedom they all lay down their lives for each day.

davefromphilly - IN reference to your comment "What's really sad is when those in charge of law and order can kill unarmed people with impunity and face little or no consequences.", my question is this: Did you read the article? The cop who shot the unarmed civilian pleaded guilty to murder, has a hearing on Monday and will be sentenced for the crime. He stood up, acted like a man, and will take his punishment. These bangers are the one who kill with impunity, get away with it because of jury nullification, playing the race card, or some slick lawyer. The Cops never get that chance.

Bryan - I sincerely hope that some day you or a member of your family needs the Police, so that the Police can ignore tha call, causing you great hardship, but hopefully not loss of life. It is attitudes like yours that hurt this country more than terrorism.

Criminals with "extensive" records should never be paroled anyway. When is the United States going to come up with a system of punishment that truly punishes criminals? These people are not afraid to commit crimes therefor it happens over and over and over and the innocent die because of it. I'm sick of hearing about situations like these. Violent criminals need to be disposed of. They cannot be rehabilitated and should never be allowed to be put back out on the streets. Body bags are cheap. Dammit, America, DO SOMETHING.

I do blame media outlets for the crime and behavior of people today. It glamorizes crime but God forbid we infringe on our constitutional rights to display this type of behavior. We all need to start boycotting cable television and the garbage "reality" programs they show. And the lyrics to the music kids are listening to? No talent. No class. Garbage. It's no wonder other countries are disgusted with us. It makes me SICK!

Too many @!$%#ing bleeding heart liberals who keep voting for bleeding heart politicians who keep assigning bleeding heart judges. Politicians don't want hang em high judges because thier afraid theyr'e gonna get caught one day

Police in this country have lost the faith of the people. Even law-abiding citizens are choosing to avoid police. Why? Because police are not trustworthy. If they are not criminals themselves, they are making deals with the criminals supposedly in the hopes of catching bigger criminals or making a name for themselves. And they are known to literally smash the door down to the wrong place in military SWAT style only to cuff a single mom in front of her little girl -- and then discover they got the wrong address! None of us who are law-abiding citizens feel safe when the police are the threat to our safety and security.

This guy knew he was going down and chose to control how he went down himself, to get back at the system that's broken down, to commit suicide by police. Militaristic police often harm civilians when they treat 'suspects' like criminals. Suspects should be treated as innocent until proven guilty, not assumed guilty and treated like criminals until they can prove themselves not guilty. One person in this thread implied citizens should know what to do to avoid being hurt by police. I contend that police are supposed to be trained to know what to do to avoid hurting innocent citizens.

Police today have an 'us against them' mindset. They coverup when officers do wrong because it's always police investigating police. Police should be held accountable for what they do, for bad judgment calls, for hurting or killing 'suspects' who should be considered innocent until proven guilty, for engaging in or offering protection for drug activity for personal gain, for shooting dogs out of spite or for killing people that know too much about illegal police activity. As long as citizens see police participating in these activities, but given special treatment as above the law, there will be no trust.

So, solving this trust problem is not easy. Police must learn how to hold themselves accountable in a public way, drop the secrecy and build trust with the public citizenry. Wouldn't hurt for police to actually speak to neighborhood citizens, to personally know who is who, who belongs, who doesn't and who the troublemakers are in a personal way in each neighborhood. When that happened in the past, trust was build, citizens told officers before someone got killed. Law abiding citizens must struggle against their feelings of doubt and give officers a chance again, trying to work with officers that are reaching out to them trying to communicate with law abiding citizens.

Until trust is re-established, militaristic police are going to encounter greater animosity from the citizenry. Repeatedly lately, police keep proving deadly militaristic tactics cannot make us safe. This is not a police state. Police need to lose the militaristic tactics and instead, work with the public to help us make ourselves more safe. Police cannot ensure our safety without us, no matter how much force they use.

The only good thing to come from this senseless tragedy is that the State of California won't have to spend millions on Mixon's trial, incarceration and endless appeals. His ticket is permanently cancelled.

My deepest feelings of condolence goes out to the Family of these Officers.

and you Police bashers.... well what can you say to someone that is nothing other then the after birth of their mothers, born brainless and heartless.

You ever had an assault rifle fired at you? It is no picnic and if you are lucky that the person behind the trigger is a terrible shot, you make your return shots count and take the person down before he sends you home in a box. The cops were out gunned and the criminal didn't want to go back to prison so he chose the "gang-sta" style way out. Too bad the cops killed him outright, he deserved a slow painful death. As far as the local community goes taunted the cops at the sight of this first shooting, it shouldn't be surprise to anyone. They most likely will come up with some lame ass excuse to say that Mixon was some "inncoent bystander being singled out by the police and he had every right to defend himself...blah blan". He'll be the local hero for anyone looking to be a punk, wanna-be gang banger, low life, chump. Rather assist the criminals then actually show some respect for those Officers who were killed. What a joke. Maybe next time they get a 911 call from that area the cops should just keep on driving, obviously they could care less about the cops so why should the cops worry about them, I am sure there are tons of other people that need their support.

Sadly, this is the result of a government that is more interested in the rights of violent criminals and terrorists than the well-being of law abiding citizens. Under Obama, this situation will only worsen, and we need to support the police, especially in these problematic urban areas. These cities will have to pay entirely for their own crime and to police their own streets. The rest of us don't have the resources to assist them anymore. The same excuses and whining no longer apply.

Just another loser popped out by another welfare mom. This subculture is subhuman, and the beeding heart liberals just can't accept that; so society gets stuck with constantly excused horrible behavior. The political will to take definitive action against these miscreants is sadly lacking. Bad police do exist, but I believe them to be a small minority of any police force. These "bad apples" certainly deserve to be punished. But the wacko antipolice comments in some of these posts represent a truly skewed view of reality.

First, our sympathy should be extended to all that have lost from this incident.

Second, someone explain how the police protect? They could not even "protect" their own. They enforce laws, have latitude in presumption (which probably causes most of the police/public distrust), and use excessive force to "protect" themselves. Just remember "911" is too late, it means the crime has already happened.

Third, even though the perp was wrong and broke the law (by the way for you gun-haters, it is against the law for a criminal to possess a gun, another law would not have stopped this), would another approach to prevent the altercation been more beneficial? Seems to me this was one bully against a bunch of bullies by the time the bullets flew.

My sincere sadness for theses officers, their families and friends.

Does anyone in POWER understand these mutants like Mixon need to be removed from society? The article states that "Mixon had an "extensive criminal history" and was wanted on a no-bail warrant." did we, the peaceful law abiding miss something?

Enough of the bleeding hearts for this garbage. Lock them up and leave them in a hole. I am sure more gun control will be called for effecting only the law abiding since any mutant willing to murder could care less about registration, waiting periods, mental exams, background checks, training, testing and paperwork.

Bryan is a sick person and harbors dangerous thoughts. Calling him an idiot is a complement. Sure some police lose it, but live their lives of dealing with the mutants of the world. How do you expect them to behave sometimes? I have had encounters with bad cops at traffic stops, the last one by a bad cop who was fired and sent to prison. Unfortunately you find idiots in all occupations, sadly some carry a badge.

The "Root of All Evil" is child abuse and neglect which spews out dysfunctional families who breed in ghettos and fester out onto other areas. Leading to drugs, abuse, more violence, more prisons, more "band aids" on open sores that are going gangrene.

When society starts with prevention of child abuse and starts investing in stopping this cycle of dysfunction we can stifle the disease. Until then, reform prisons into labor for room and board and certain freedoms all dependent on good behavior, instead of state of the art high tech gym equipment for thugs. That as separate violent and gang members from the each other and the prison population with options to reform or in cases of murder...death penalty.

The venom shot at the cops here is unbelievable. And why is this? What you call "profiling" is actually just good police work. If a black man, 20-25, wearing a black jacket and jeans, just held up a store with a gun, should the police pull over only white men? This is as stupid as the TSA having old grandmothers pulling off their shoes at the check in because some Arab Males flew planes into the Twin Towers and Pentagon. As a White Male, Ihave been pulled over due to a profile I fit. I was driving out ofthe SE part of DC at about 3 AM. As this is a high crime area, especially drugs, the cops figured a middle class white guy like me was going for a fix. I was pulled over by 2 black officers, told to keep my hands where I could see them, was cuffed, sat on the side of the road, and my car searched. When it was done, I did not go to a lawyer or TV complaining about "Profiling", not that they would listen anyway. As an adult, I realize I fit the profile. When a black female had her apartment vandalized with racist graffiti, the cops were pulling over any white guy in a beat up pick up. Come to find out, she did it herself for the charity that poured in to her. Were the cops wrong to pull over every middle- to low-income white male in a truck? And I was pulled over during the DC Sniper fiasco because I was driving white vehicles. Yes, profiling is actually what is done to catch people, and race can be a big part of the profile.

For those of you outraged by Bryan's comments, just keep in mind that he is going to get what's coming to him. I have no doubt that Bryan is a thug, just like the one referenced in this story - which means he is either going to be dead or in jail shortly.

The killer's family said he was not a monster, but that is exactly what he was. As soon as he is buried I'll be sure to take a drive up to Oakland a piss on his grave, because that is exactly what he deserves.

The truly sad part is that the police have so degraded their reputation that a crowd would heckle the police while they were recovering the body of a cop.

I would suggest that the police change their ways and work really hard on improving their relationship with the public.

The biggest problem in black communities is black on black violence. For all you bashing the police, perhaps we should pull them out of the black communities for a while and see what happens. Maybe then you'll understand the value they provide

Does anyone know if the 4 police officers were bad cops? There seems to be this under current of giving approval for Mixon's actions because, "Police Officers have over-extended their control and infringed on law abiding citizens.."

Where does this idea come from? Let's look at this on a lower level and "dumb it down". Two police officers halt a vehicle, the driver a criminal who was breaking the law already and knew that he was most likely going back to jail once they ran his name in the database, decided instead of obeying the law (which in his previous years had no concept of that) pulled a weapon out and shot 2 Officers at close range. Now, did these cops deserved to get blown away because in other areas in the country there are bad cops? So in this assessment, since it is bad cops then Mixon is justified in his actions because these cops are only part of the problem? Then Mixon shoots 2 more cops who entered the apartment that he was in. Mixon knew that he was a marked man for killing two cops so he shot it out with the officers. So there are bad cops, any many agencies do attempt to get rid of the bad weight. But that doesn't justify Mixon's actions. The local community was seen taunting and cheering as the cops removed the slain officers bodies. Does that mean the cops are now justified in going into the community and fire bombing every house? Since the community gives no damn about the cops then would the cops be justified? No. But here we are attempting to make some point that since bad cops work in law enforcement there is no reason to get mad at Mixon's action and reaction to the situation? Get real.

God be with them and their familes. Our prayers are with you. Thank goodness SWAT killed this piece of human waste, and dont have to spend millions on a trial.

An "extensive criminal history" and his cousin says "he's not a monster".

He's responsible for the deaths of 4 police officers, that qualifies him as a "monster" in my humble opinion, and his cousin as an idiot ... who should be put away for that.

If you put away people for being stupid- we wouldn't have a Congress!

Never mind the cops could have been good or bad, black or white or whatever. These men were doing their jobs and since this evil, evil man got the drop on them, they weren't acting like bullies. They deserve nothing but respect and honor.

Now, that being said, the philosophy of community policing, e.g., no tolerance, stop and frisk, knock-less warrants, etc. brought in by Bratton, continued by Bernie Kereck before his evil side surfaced, and continued by the current NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly involves systemic, procedural, continuous civil rights violations upon the underclass' young males. For all the high profile Amadu Diallahs we hear about, there are hundreds we don't hear about. I am very upset when I hear an American say he'll tolerate being treated like an animal by cops when he is innocent. What the heck did this nation's youth give up their blood and lives for, if not to make the state's minions treat them with respect and dignity? If the cops can't do their jobs without this personal abuse, abuse they'd never consider taking from family or strangers, then fire them and get different people to do this job.

I just have to ask... How seriously ignorant is his cousin. She actually states, "He is not a monster." Is she really a special sort of stupid? He kills 4 cops in a single day, and he is not a monster!?!?! News flash...he is a monster!!

Amen to keeping some of these people off of the keypads. Some people supporting the officers have made off-hand comments that they should all quit and leave Oakland to destroy itself. As the proud sister of a dedicated Oakland PD officer I can tell you that will never happen. They are dedicated soldiers there to protect whoever they can. In many instances it is the public who do not do their part to support these brave heroes who go out there every single day to try and help. My brother has come home broken hearted time and again at the evil he sees, but he keeps going out there. He's rescued kidnapped victims and talked people off of ledges. Unless you yourself are willing to go out there and risk your well-being to do the same, then shut-up and send some flowers. Thank a cop today.

"The truly sad part is that the police have so degraded their reputation that a crowd would heckle the police while they were recovering the body of a cop.

I would suggest that the police change their ways and work really hard on improving their relationship with the public. "

No, the truely sad part is moron's like you get to vote and are allowed to exist while good men like those police officers are dead.

Have a nice day, artard.

People need to remember that there is a context for this. An unarmed black man, with no record was shot dead while lying face down by a BART cop not long ago. Feelings are running high about that.

This context does not excuse this killing, but it does explain attitudes.

And the person who wrote about routine stops of homeys is correct. Cops call them "Easter Eggs" because when you open them up, they have prizes inside. For the cops, each arrest and charge is a point for them. Cops know that if they target poor homeys they won't get flak for it, and they will see convictions.

Fact is, it isn't at all uncommon for white people in cars to have illegal drugs in their car, studies have shown this over and over. But they have more money, they can fight charges, their lawyers can file before charges are filed for this and that, and the DA gets the message.

That is why things are hot between cops and black people in Oakland. It's not an excuse, but it's the way it is.

Mac

Of course they didn't deserve to get blown away. But that's why cops hate bad cops, and hate stupid ones like that BART cop who shot the guy.

Every time bad or stupid cops kill innocent people, you can bet your life that some other cops will die for it. It's terrible, but that's how it is.

dipsh!tfromfillmya$$,,,

How stupid a comment!! This punk killed 4 law abiding, security providing, community servin men. These were not new beat walkers, but instead, men, average age of 40, with families!! This piece of @!$%# KILLED them!! I say him dieing is a cop out!! Death by cop syndrome!! Id rather he lived and spent the rest of his miserable life without the freedom you are abusing!!

People like you is whats killing America!!

I bet you must have 2 strikes against you and are living paranoid!! If youre worried about being profiled!! Ditch th bling and dope mobile and live a normal liffe!! Dont draw attention to yourself and make yourself a target to be on the defensive and do something stupid!!

It aint the bad apple that ruins the bushel,, its the orchard the apple the apple chooses to hang in!!

Hey, just was listening to some,2-pac, Better Dadz, and I came across this story. Hey ya all, I just wrote a peace about the A.G. Jerry Brown, and how he tried to make sure everybody in Cal, went broke, when he was Gov........

The illuminate, cal-uminate, did not figure the Internet, digital cameras, or smart people, as 2-pac said, they do not give a "F..k", about us.........only some cop killings make news's?..........I am sure their will be a presidential funeral, costing a couple of ben-"g"-mans............... I love Oakland, ie...Lake Merit. Livermore is not far away,or Berkley..........it is time for justice...............

Bob:

If you were in Southeast at 3 in the morning for no damn reason, I'm pretty sure the 2 black officers that "profiled" you had a real good reason to. Hell, YOU even gave the proper explanation and you understand WHY. The conversation probably went a little something like this before they pulled you over:
"Why would a pecker-wood be hanging out at 3 in the morning over here?" ....

"I don't know man, but it can't be nothing any good"......

"Hmmmm, he must be trying to score some dope!"

That, my friend, is called REALITY!

Problem is, black men and boys were being pulled over by the police in America before there were cars. Blacks getting put in the back of squad cars only to be found a few days later, stinking and swinging from a tree. I don't hate the police, but I trust them as far as I can see.And you want to talk about crazies out there making up things....what about that crazy ass broad in North Carolina that killed her own kids? What about that crazy broad that branded herself during the campaign? Don't go there with the lame examples, because for everyone 1 you may have, I'm pretty sure there are 100 that can go the other way.

JoJo - I guess the excuse is lame if it defies yours, huh? These are reality. I did give the cops a truthful explanation as to why I was leaving at 3 AM (I was visiting a friend and had to be at work at 5) and they still searched the car. Was I upset? Not really, because the cops were doing their jobs. Did it delay me? Sure, but again, as an adult, I understood. The problem is not the profiling, it's the reason for it. If Black on Black and Black on White crime was not so prevalent in the cities, I'm sure the profiling would go down.

John T - Since you can use as context the man killed by the BART cop to explain the attitude, is it okay for a White person who has had a family member harmed by violence by a Black person to commit an act of retribution? What if the White person was killed by a Black cop? Would it be okay then?

Bottom line is that profiling, for better or worse, exists and is a viable tool of law enforcement to catch criminals. You should be more upset that the profile includes race due to the crime statistics rather than some belief that all, or most all, cops are racists homophobes that want to injure your people. Want racial profiling to stop? Control crime in your community. There was no excuse for the cop to shoot that man on the ground, none at all, and he will pay for it. However, a stupid act that costs one live can not be used to explain one monstrous act that has claimed 3, and will probably claim one more.

I hate people.

I guess I missed something in the article that said that these officers who died were "bad cops." Nothing in this article gives any reason they should be vilified as I read in some of these posts. This is a tragic incident and five people are dead because of it. Whatever led to the life of crime this Mixon engaged in, it is still a life of crime. Many people endure bad childhoods, poverty, injustice and more without becoming violent criminals and so one's past, while it may explain his choice to engage in crime, does not excuse it. Mixon made his choices and has paid the price for those choices. Unfortunately, he took four others with him. And while it is true that in choosing to become officers of the law they also took the chance that they may die in the line of duty, nothing in the article describes anything they did that could have warrented the taking of their lives. I am by no means an apologist for bad cops, but there has been no evidence presented that indicates this was the case with any of these officers. Whether or not Mixon was a "monster" is a matter for individual interpretation. I personally think it gives monsters a bad name. This entire episode was tragic, but blaming the officers, society, the government, or bad karma does not change the fact that five people are dead because of the decisions made by a single person, Mixon. Just sayin'

What a tragedy we can't go back in time to the day Mixon was born and simply take this illigitimate piece of filth and hold him by the ankles upside down in a bucket of water and drown him in front of his mother rather than turn him loose on society. He is an example of someone that has NEVER contributed a positive thing to the world. I hope the police are given permission to shot and kill his worthless mother also for raising such a walking pile of crap.

It's sad what happened and all but people act as this is something new as if this is the only guy to kill with a gun. Some people here are also pointing fingers and all. Blaming the mother and one member Steve-983498 made this comment. Why do you feel the mother should hold the blame?? She did not tell him to go out and start shooting people.

There are sane people who turn crazy and start murdering people. There have been people in which have had the good life oneday snap and start killing people though they seem to have a excuse when they kill. Spite any race there is good and there is evil. Good that can become evil and evil good. For those who say kill prisoners because they may made a mistake in there life which they can not change. Who are we to make the decison on who dies as if we are GOD himself?? GOD will hold judgement!

There have been many deaths through the years with gun violence. Some would say well if they had a gun they would of prevented things. These cops had guns also. Sure they stopped him but not after he took some people with him. Though people still feel there is no need to band guns. it was just a few weeks ago a multiple shooting shooting happened. Not by a black person but white. So this violence is happening from all types of people. Throughout the years too many people have died from gun violence. What we need a some new form of weapon system?

The world is full of retards. This punk should have been shot dead the first time he used a gun to rob someone. I hate crooked cops, but I equally despise criminals. This was not a case of crooked cops, this was a case of a violent punk who needed to be put where he belongs, either in the ground or in jail. If you stick up for violent criminals like this then you are simply stupid and are welcoming an attack on a loved one by this very type of person who would shoot them for a dollar or whatever else they want. Violent criminals have no place in our society, so I say shoot them dead. Decriminalize herb so that police can focus on true criminals like this punk.

this man mixon was absolute scum and i feel horribly for the poor innocent cops and their families. thing is he has already screwed up twice, he should have been locked up for life, he was obviously never going to amount to anything. armed robbery is a horrible crime and should automatically equal either a death sentence or life imprisonment, why would we ever want him loose on the streets again, yet another screw up by an inept justice system

Yes, the drug laws must be changed now for a number of reasons. However, this does not ameliorate the unemployed, uneducated, no moral value, "slugs" of all ethnic groups that inhabit our streets. If it isnt drugs, it will be something else. They are parasites, and we continue to be the victims. How do we clean up the streets? A bail out for the inner cities and nasty burbs?

God bless those in blue!!!!!!!!!

It will be up to the community to clean up their own streets and they are too afraid. So the problem continues and the innocent die-there will be many more Mixons up and coming because the parents do not raise their kids. I live close to Milwaukee, and for a small city we have overwhelmingly high crime, all mainly steming from our ghetto communities. To those who made comments that all policemen are cocky and dirty-that is just a ridiculous statement. I am sure there are a majority that are-that take the badge too far, but there are good and bad people in every area of life.

This is a sad story. Its sad because 5 family's will be grieving. Its sad because there are so many people in our society who feel no hope, and only turn to violence. Its sad because we choose to support violence in some vague hope that it will end violence ..... doesn't seem to be working.

the problem is that 98% of crime is not related to drugs, but to money. Courts, laws and police were not created to protect you from violence, but to protect property and those who have it. The use of violence in enforcing the law is a major issue in the spread of violence to begin with.

In this case, this young man, with no hope of a normal life, chose to die instead of going back inside. Sure you can blame the judges, parole boards, etc .... maybe you are right. Ask yourself this: Why are we releasing this guy into a society where he can't work in a regular job, is constantly going to be harassed by the police, and is very likely to end up in jail again?

We expect these kids, who grew up in abject poverty anyway, to be rehabilitated in Prison - for what? no one is going to hire them .... A waste of 5 lives, and a system that keeps killing both cops and criminals.

Unfortunately you are correct.

That's okay, when an unarmed civilian was killed 'the blue wall' closed up and the cops didn't give a damn, now the shoe is on the other foot.

A cops life isn't worth more than a civilian's life.

The 7th Law, All Animals are created equal. Some more equal then others

Geoge Orwell, Animale Farm

Spoken like a true racist , jads. (And BTW, I'm white.)

I for one am very thankful for law enforcement in this country.

Dave, you need to live in a country with no police. Why don't you just pack up now and head for Somalia.

Your attitude toward the "blue wall" is pathetic. Those women and men put their lives on the line every time they go to work, to protect idiots such as yourself from individuals such as the person killed today.

We do not need you here.

Boom, what you say about the police is true. But the fact is the Police FORCE has evolved beyond its original design. And in a negative, controling way.

When I drive home from work at night, Do I fear being attacked from a band of hoodlums? No. But what I do fear is being pulled over, for having a brake light out, by a police officer with a chip on his/her shoulder. For whom I must cower and grovel to until he/she is down with me. because if I don't I face their wrath. I have learned that most Cops are those who want to be in authority. Not those who truly wish to serve.

mac,

you need meds brotha.

If you have a tail light out fix it.. The cop does his job... Broken tail light could lead to a fatal accident at night.. Don't blame the cop just because you were to lazy or cheap to fix your damn light... Maybe you need to go back to drivers ED? Seriously, if you get pulled over for something you did or are doing wrong it is your fault... Only a panzy will complain when they get pulled over for being an idiot...

As for cops killing unarmed ppl... Many commit suicide by police by pretending to have a weapon... I'm willing to bet this child that was killed by the police was probably some punk kid or gang member who's parents should never have been allowed to reproduce.. And if not... I doubt the officer was looking to purposely murder some kid...

A lot of civs are too ignorant.. They don't have guns waving in their faces everyday by criminals like the police do... I would like to see any of these out raged citizens actually even direct traffic vs be in a situation where you have a split second to shoot or not shoot a threatening individual...

factbasedselling, You want to give me some of yours?

Ian...Three (3) policeman are dead and one (1) is in grave condition.

Let me get this straight. There are actually people on here that are mourning the death of the perp more than the deaths of the cops? Are you really saying you would rather have the perp in your neighborhood rather than the cops? I'm just trying to understand how bad your lives are. I've known bad cops and they are a small minority. Most of the bad cops I've known were a result of the extreme inhumanity to fellow Americans from the bad guys. They were jaded, and hated bad guys that get away with it. I've also known two cops that died in the line of duty. Both were family men, with small children, and loving wives that were left to fend for themselves. Oh by the way they were both African American.

Dan, That you say you have known "Bad Cop's" along with the fact you say it in plural should be alarming enough for you.

The Original Mac

While I don't fear being pulled over by the cops I don't particularly like it. I've been pulled over by the cops a number of times, but I took it like a man. I didn't cower or grovel for the cop. I just sat still with my hands on top of the steering wheel in plain view while the cop walked up to and looked around the inside of my car. When the cop asked for my license and registration I told him where they were located before I reached to retrieve them. When I did reach to retrieve them I did so in a slow deliberate manner. I followed the cops instructions and remained collected. If the cop wrote me a ticket I didn't argue or debate the merits of the citation. That's what court is for. I let the cop do his job and before long I was on my way again.

While some cops are more personable than others, I've haven't dealt with one I would characterize as wrathful. The cops don't make the laws. If there are laws you don't like contact your state representatives about having them changed. The cops are granted the authority by the state or county to enforce the laws. While cops perform many duties, a cop who doesn't enforce the law isn't much of a cop.

Actually, I'm not done.

So you do all that you said. Then your fine.

What of the ones that are not as savvy as you or me? What of the teenagers? what of our children with little experience but still a delusion that what they read in American Govt, that day in school, and are young and INNOCENT enough to still think it's real, open their mouths? One wrong step and there @!$%#ed. that's what. And what of the parents who have to go down to the Gestapo and retrieve their children? You know? the ones that realize there rights. But don't dare quote them. And why don't they exercise them or quote them? Because unlike you, they know these rights are deteriorated. almost non existent. these "old folk lore rights" are now only laughed at by most cops. Today if you try to defend your right with the police FORCE you are seen as a trouble maker. One who must be made an example of.

As a parent, of a 17 yr old, on a Saturday night, I lie awake in bed. And I pray. " Please Jesus look after after my boy. Keep him from harm. keep him from temptation. And please Lord, keep him from the police.

The Original Mac- And if something happened to your 27 year old the POLICE would be the ones who came. How about if you called for help and the Police don't come help you. People like you preach one thing but if something happens you forget all you preach and call. Please do not say you would never call the police about anything. Not all police are bad. Actually there are way more good cops than bad in my opinion. My sister happens to be a State Trooper and she is a very good cop. She loves her job and respects everyone she has contact with. I have done many ride alongs with her. It is amazing to hear some of the things people say to her. I will pray for your 17 year old that they are a little more intelligent than their parent is about police. That way if they ever need help they will ask for it. Keep talking the way you do. You never know one day a police officer might just be the only person that could help you 17 year old, it could even be a life or death situation.

you should have gotten a lawyer and went to court instead of just paying up thats your fualt.

That's not the point he was making. He was being harassed

The Original Mac

I don't want to see any harm come to your 17 year old son either. If you are concerned that your son does not know how to conduct himself if he is stopped by the police then educate him. Have him read my initial comment if it will help. Tell your son not to appear resentful or to act in such a way as to make the cop feel he has a chip on his shoulder or a score to settle. Such behavior will only make the situation more stressful and difficult for all involved.

You should be lying awake on a Saturday night if you don't know where your son is or who he's with. If this is the case your concern for your son's safety and fear that he may come to harm at the hands of the police is greatly misplaced. Praying for your son's safety is fine, but you have to do your part. If you are allowing a 17 year old to stay out to all hours of the night you're not doing your part.

@davefromphilly:

You keep on saying, "a cop's life is no more worth than a civilian's life". So a few months ago an unarmed civilian was killed by a transit cop. Now 3 police officers are dead and maybe one more making it a potential 4 cops to 1 civilian. I think the cops have paid their dues in your assessment. The civlian won't be able to prevent a criminal from acting in your community, the local cop might stop and prevent it. But what we see here is a lot of police bashing and feeling sympathy for a degenerate dirt bag that was a criminal and shot 4 law enforcement officers and killed at least 3 of them. I am sure someone will have Mixon's picture on a t-shirt with the slogan "police brutality" maybe they can start placing photos of those criminals on the wall of heros like in the West Bank for those suicide bombers, they fall along the same lines anyway.

When our daughter was growing up she had curfew. She was not allowed to stay out all hours of the night. She knew what time she had to be in. If she was going to be late she would call. We also taught her to respect the law and the police and not be afraid to ask them for help if she needed it. She never once had any trouble with the law or the police and as parents neither did we.

Blake_AFVET

I am confused. First you say the Denver cops pulled you over for no reason other than you are black. Then you go on to reveal you were cited 51 times for "defective vehicle" violations. So were you truely stopped because of your race or is your perception of the reason for the stop wrong? In my experience it is not uncommon for a cop to stop a person driving a vehicle with faulty equipment. If this is the case with you being stopped by the police then you can't cry racial profiling.

Why is it a bad practice for a cop to run a license and wanted check on a person he has stopped? Isn't that part of his job? If a cop runs a wanted check on a guy he has stopped for a traffic violation and learns the guy is wanted for an assault with a deadly weapon, the cop then arrest the guy. Isn't that a good thing? Doesn't that help to protect the rest of society? While the answers to these questions should be obvious, you don't seem to get it.

I am not so naive as to believe racial profiling does not exist or never happens. While I abhor racial profiling I also recognize there are cases where racial profiling is alleged but in reality race played no part in the stop of the individual.

I hope that better education, selection, and training of police will serve to further reduce the incidents of racial profiling. I also pray that no more police officers will be killed so that you will not be inconvenienced and forced to drive a couple of blocks out of your way due to a police funeral.

The blue wall that led to the arrest warrant and subsequent court proceedings? Get a clue...This was a tragedy as much as the unfortunate shooting by a mamber of the Bay Area Rapid Transit Police...NOT THE OAKLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME AGENCY....what is the same is that all off these families and the whole community should mourn for each and every lost life. God Bless those who protect and serve. We have lost some of the best the human race has to offer....our protectors

No it's not ok Dave, and that BART cop is going to trial for manslaughter maybe murder? However what that BART cop did doesn't justify killing other cops. What's going to happen is that police that refuse to go into EAST or West Oakland. Let the people protect themselves. If you're white Dave I doubt you live in East Oakland. Why don't you go over to Mac Arthur or Foothill Blvds and walk from about 66th Avenue to the San Leandro border and see how you feel after that walk. Or better yet see if you can go with an Oakland Officer on his shift in East Oakland. You are so naive of what goes on in Oakland especially for a white officer. It's easy to sit at your computer and write absolute stupid analogy's like you do and a whole other story to feel the gansta mentality of East & West Oakland.

My son is 18, and as soon as he began driving alone (CA), I instructed him on behavior if pulled over. He is to use yes sir, no sir, the entire time, and keep his mouth shut unless spoken to. I advised him that the older guys are usually pretty nice, the young guys be wary of - and if roughed up keep his mouth shut, because after the fact we are both going to the station and I'll raise hell. He has been pulled over once, same reason as me, the side windows of the car are 25% tinted, which the tint guy didn't think we'd be pulled over for, but the young black officer told me that's what they all say. Both times we were let go, no ticket.

Why go through this? Because I know the police are facing life and death with every traffic stop and call, and are very wary - as they should be - each time until they assess the situation in a split second. It's the OK Corral out there, obviously, and most cops are trying to "serve and protect", but not get their brains blown out in the course of their day. Just look at all the fun and games people are having with drug murders and kidnappings down there in Mexico if you are unable to use your imaginations to project how bad it could be here without a police force.

and as soon as he began driving alone (CA), I instructed him on behavior if pulled over. He is to use yes sir, no sir, the entire time, and keep his mouth shut unless spoken to. I advised him that the older guys are usually pretty nice, the young guys be wary of - and if roughed up keep his mouth shut, because after the fact we are both going to the station and I'll raise hell.

If you are concerned that your son does not know how to conduct himself if he is stopped by the police then educate him

What of the ones that are not as savvy as you or me? What of the teenagers? what of our children with little experience but still a delusion that what they read in American Govt, that day in school, and are young and INNOCENT enough to still think it's real, open their mouths? One wrong step and there @!$%#ed. that's what. And what of the parents who have to go down to the Gestapo and retrieve their children? You know? the ones that realize there rights. But don't dare quote them. And why don't they exercise them or quote them? Because unlike you, they know these rights are deteriorated. almost non existent. these "old folk lore rights" are now only laughed at by most cops. Today if you try to defend your right with the police FORCE you are seen as a trouble maker. One who must be made an example of.

So are "cops" a higher authority? or are they civil servants to administer law enforcement for laws civilians decide are just? Unfortunately they are neither, they are to control society based on the visions of government and given authority to over ride any and all presumed "rights" granted by our founding fathers. Otherwise, it would be up to them to be educated on how to handle a law enforcement incident knowing that the "alleged" perp (yes even a "faulty" equipment operator is perp!) is the actual authority and demands the respect of the civil servant, instead of the other way around.

It is sad in my eyes that we have to teach our children to "grovel" and be passive or act like a victim seeking forgiveness and begging for forgiveness to some SS henchmen.

As far as calling the cops the next time you are a victim of crime, remember the crime was already committed. The cops are too late.

Original Mac- it's true, I am alarmed. But not enough to support criminals in a gun battle with cops. There's bad doctors, teachers, lawyers, politicians, firemen, and McDonalds workers. I am alarmed about all of them too. But not enough to pervert my beliefs in the battle of good against evil.

First and foremost, I just want to say that what Lovelle Mixon did was WRONG! No matter how you slice, it was wrong, not matter what the cops did or didn't do. There's a good heated debate going on, minus some of the racial stuff, on this subject and how we all have different points of view on things.I wonder if the racial stuff would be on full display had the officer's been black or if the perp had been white? It's evident that 99% of Americans look at any situation through the lens of race. Most white people will NEVER understand what a black man feels when he sees a cop in this country. It's a totally different experience, I can assure you. It's easy to criticize when you're on the outside looking in!

I've been in the car with some white friends who've been pulled over for speeding and the conversation is a hell of a lot different than when I'm driving. Same goes for women. I've driven down the road countless times and have seen the cops searching the cars of Blacks and Latinos, but I have yet to see a trunk open and all the doors open search of someone white. Now, I'm, not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying I haven't seen it being done.

RobWI

I see no problem with teaching a child how to conduct himself if he is stopped by the police. There is no need for him to grovel or act like a victim seeking forgiveness. All he has to do is show the cop the same level of respect you would expect him to show to any stranger he may meet on the street. You may not be aware of it but cops are taught to show respect to the citizens they contact and to conduct themselves in a professional manner. As for those laws you don't like and don't feel ought to apply to you, take them up with your elected representatives who pass the laws.

I don't know what it is but in my experience I have found that those individuals who are the most vocal about demanding respect from others are the same individuals who are the least respectful toward others. It's a two way street pal.

Maybe we should only have black cops patrol East & West Oakland. Then how do you think a black felon will feel when approached by one of them? "Hey brother what's goin on!" Not!

Yes sir, no sir-aren't those just good manners? When did we forget our manners? If the officers do something inappropriate, follow the proper procedures. Contact Internal Affairs to file a complaint. Get an attorney. It's not going to make a difference on the side of the road.

Good manners work. When I deal with people, of all races and financial backgrounds, I refer to them as Mr., Ms or Mrs.. I even do this with the teenagers. If they start with attitude I make a conscious choice of either turning back that attitude on them or just smiling as I write them those tickets that would have been just warnings. I usually choose the latter. Writing more tickets is easier than arguing. Plus everything is being recorded so I will gladly let them make an a$$ out of themselves on camera. I really don't like to argue, it is just not worth it.

And to all those people that say "cops are bad", please total all the news stories of cops gone bad and see the percentage of the total police force in this country. I bet it is a VERY small percentage. You make these 'all inculsuive' statements that have NO basis on fact. Now, take all the news stories of officers saving lives and see what percentage of the total force that would be. I bet it is a HELL of a lot higher. And yes, I am in that category. Almost got pulled off a bridge over a highway by a suicidal man. We are both alive today and he has gotten back on his meds. He is only 21 and his family is grateful. I didn't even think twice and I have a wife and three kids. Of all the hundreds of officers I know personally almost all would do the same.

Thanks to all those who support what we do.

Some would not? Won't you turn them in so they make room on the force for men and women who unquestioningly will. Cause that's the job.

Please stop the practice of calling non-cops civilians. When I hear the cop cannot take a sick day, can't quit his job, can't go home at the end of his shift, spends months in privation thousands of miles from his loved ones and gets less money than the high five figures or low six figures these cops are knocking down today, then these civil servants can call people have endured the above 'civilains'.

TexasCop

Good Cop.

All Joe,

If you are concerned that your son does not know how to conduct himself if he is stopped by the police then educate him.

You just admitted so much of whats wrong with the police FORCE.

You should be lying awake on a Saturday night if you don't know where your son is

I know exactly where my son is. I just don't know where the bad cops are.

or who he's with.

Interesting how you put it in nice and neat order. like I should know who my 17, (not 7), year old son is with at every moment. Should I have him call me each time someone enters the room he occupying at the time?

If this is the case your concern for your son's safety and fear that he may come to harm at the hands of the police is greatly misplaced.

Lets see? how can I respond to this with out giving the same underlying condesending message, you are relaying to me, that you think has escaped me?

Bull@!$%#. You have know idea what I do for a living. Nor am I going to tell you. But I will say this. I have met hundreds, YES, hundreds, of people that have both metally and physically abused by the police. And since you zero facts of the circumstances surronding these cases, dont waste my time with your naieve speculation.

Praying for your son's safety is fine,

Thanks for your consent Joe. Like I need to hear from you about anything concerning my prayers.

but you have to do your part.

There's that condescending attitude of your which I was referring to. Takes a real block head to imply to a parent, for which he knows nothing about, that they may not be doing their part

If you are allowing a 17 year old to stay out to all hours of the night you're not doing your part.

Ah, Tell me Joe, what is my child's curfew time? Oh that's right, you don't know because you never asked. It was just easier for you to flick a little mud and think no one would notice. Also, are you saying that bad cops will only be around after 10:00 at night?

Do you even have children All Joe??

Texas Cop

Thank you for all you do. If all the good that police officers did were posted there wouldn't be room for any other news. You are a hero and please know you are appreciated.

Have fun in jail jci38!

That attitude will seal your fate!!!

tom343,

I did not say all the officers I know personally have the same values and integrity that I do, but that does not mean they do not do their job effectively. I have spent the past 8 years in this line of work and have been able to avoid becoming cynical and jaded. That is hard to do when you see people at their worst. I have seen things that would blow your mind, because it is not like they show on television. This is reality and it is tough. I lead by example and train my rookies to live "above reproach". If I see a fellow officer violating the oath we all swore to abide by, yes, I would do what I can to see that they are out of this line of work. There were 20 or more officers on scene that day I grabbed that jumper and I was the only one that grabbed him. I was the one trying to talk him down. That does not mean those other 20 would not do the same if they were in my position, but I can not make assumptions about what someone would do with a split second life or death decision. I can hope, but I can not assume.

Remember, we are all human. We all make mistakes, even police officers. We should be held accountable for our actions and decisions, but remember our decisions are a little more important than deciding what is for lunch?

Texas Cop- Well said. Thank You for having the Courage to put the uniform on everyday.

The Original Mac

You wrote a comment that you feel threatened when pulled over by a cop. I wrote and told you what I do when stopped by a cop. Thought it might be helpful. You replied that I only do these things because I fear the wrath of the cop. No Mac, fearing the cop is your gig not mine. I do it to let the cop see what I am doing and thereby reduce any apprehension he may feel as he makes contact with me. After all, chances are he doesn't know me or my intentions.

You made a comment that you were concerned about teenagers, to include your 17 year old son, who are not as knowledgeable as adults about being stopped by the cops and not knowing how to conduct themselves. It is the responsibility of a parent to do his part as best he can to educate his children in all aspects of life. I replied with some suggestions on educating your son about this. Thought it might be helpful. In your mind my suggestions were an indictment of the police. So be it. You also made a statement that lead me to believe you did not know where your son is or who he's with in the early hours on a Saturday morning. You have informed me this is not the case. I am glad to hear this. Like I said I don't want to see any harm come to your son.

I never expressed any interest in what you do for a living so I am not disappointed that you have decided not to tell me. I know hundreds of people too. Can't say that any of them ever told me they had been abused by the police. To be honest, I can't say I've asked them. To be clear, I am not saying abuse by police never happens.

You have a strange way of interpreting things. I don't know where you got the notion I was giving you consent to pray. I don't represent the government and I am not a clergyman. Prayer is a good thing.

In answer to your question as to when the bad cops will be around. The bad cops are out there 24 hours a day, but then so are the good cops, and the good cops far outnumber the bad. Remember Mac, just like you don't know where the bad cops are, you don't know where the bad people are. Yet you don't view every person you meet as bad.

Hope I didn't get any mud on you. That's not what I am trying to do.

Take it easy Mac.

Its not fair to compare the two events here. These police officers were doing their jobs, and likely this kid was a sociopathic time bomb with a gun. We can argue about how he ended up that way, and why the parole system didn't seek to help him deal with his problems ... but thats not the point - these officers ran into the wrong guy, and likely some civilians are still alive because of it.

The BART cop is another story. he may have made a mistake and accidently shot the kid, but his actions afterwards would likely have been enough to buy him a murder conviction if he wasn't a cop .... that being said, you really don't want to go to prison in Ca. as a cop who murdered a kid in Oakland .....

Texas Cop -

I agree that you have a tough job. There is one thing that you do not mention that makes it even tougher - in our adversarial justice system, the role of the police is not impartial - and that is by design. Your job is to "build a case" against an offender. This places officers in a very difficult situation. Its a really tough line to walk to be "above reproach" and still get the conviction in lots of cases. In most lines of work, a little fudging here and there doesn't really have any consequences, but for a cop it can be life and death.

Texas Cop

The large problem is that cops don't give up other cops! They lie for them! They alibi for them! My best friend is a retired 27 year cop, and his house is full of active cops because it is a good place to hide. And I hear them laughingly describe how they beat up folks; how they perjure themselves with the attitude, "If he didn't do this, we'll put him away for the 100 times we didn't get him!"

I hear that those holes shot in road signs almost invariably are put there by bored cops. That cops always let connected offenders go.

Robert Daley's famous account of his time as a NYC Assistant Police Commissioner for Public Relations, required reading for many criminologist degrees, sums it up when he says, "Cops always lie!"

and since when did anyone ever believe fox news? fox is the national enquirer of the media.

spoken like a true liberal, eh flag waver? BTW Liz, MSN has said four cops have died.

The flag he waves is the flag of ignorance.

The flag he waves is red with a sickle and a hammer

Ummm people really? Fox and MSNBC and CNN and everything else is owned by Rupert Murdoch. He's the guy who owns 75% of ALL the media on the planet.

You media is controlled propaganda serving the ultra-rich and brainwashing the people. Turn off the TV.

Ummmm, Rupert Murdoch does own Fox news, he has nothing to do with CNN or MSNBC.

Check you facts... look at the companies who own them, then look at who owns those companies.

ted turner sold CNN some time ago

No KCBS radio news is the N E of spoken news. Fox News is just the unfair & unbalanced network, kind of like reading American Opinion magazine!

 "Fox News is the unfair and unbalanced network" Anything that upsets a liberal is a good thing, eh Rocko?

Don't use facts or logic on a liberal. They will try to create legislation banning it

Flagwaver are you stupid? The only time I have ever heard that FOX news is like the National Enquire is from stupid flaming liberals. CNN, MSNBC,CNBC, ABC,NBC, CBS etc. are all liberal media outlets which means they never bother to cover the real truth, just the truth as they see it. Barry Obama wouldn't have won had it not been for his people at the liberal news media.

"Liberal media" - defined by whom? People who think that we should nuke 50% of Asia? That birth control, women's rights and the end of segregation were the greatest follies of the 1960s? People who think McCain and Palin had it all figured out?

Liberal actaully means

• broad: showing or characterized by broad-mindedness; "a broad political stance"; "generous and broad sympathies"; "a liberal newspaper"; "tolerant ...
• having political or social views favoring reform and progress
• tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
• a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties
• big: given or giving freely; "was a big tipper"; "the bounteous goodness of God"; "bountiful compliments"; "a freehanded host"; "a handsome allowance"; "Saturday's child is loving and giving"; "a liberal backer of the arts"; "a munificent gift"; "her fond and openhanded grandfather"
• a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets
• free: not literal; "a loose interpretation of what she had been told"; "a free translation of the poem"

I'm not sure why you would want to be the opposite of that?

Frankly, since virtually all of the media outlets in the USA are owned by very wealthy multinational corporations I don't see anything "radical" about any of them. I would suggest that the main goal off all of them is the maintenance of the status quo which would define them as "conservative".

Thanks! lmao

So, there are five dead?

Yup evidently five dead.

If you want to think of it as a baseball score, the suspect won the game 4 to 1.

And at Ruby Ridge and Waco the home teams lost . . .

guywithoutabrain, Ruby Ridge and Waco were pathetic screwups by the Feds. Local police are much less politicized. THEY were not aggressors and were just doing their VERY dangerous job. Not a joking matter!

How about Twin Towers 5000 Terrorists 8 that was pretty one sided as well, or Oklahoma City 300 Delusional Extremeist 4!

guywithabrain 2, cutter 0

Sorry dude, you lose. . .

Local police, just like members of the armed forces DO have dangerous jobs, and they should be aware of that going in.

Therefore, when they get shot there should be no be no big surprise.

That's why people like me of superior intellect do not make such job selections.

Instead, we choose to lead mindless people like you.

Opps. Need to adjust the score.

guywithabrain: 3, cutter: 0 . . .

So guywithabrain, are you saying that military men and women and any other person that puts their life on the line everyday they suit up, i.e. Police Officer's, Firemen, Secret Service Agents, Border Patrol Agents, TSA Agents.....Ok, I might be stretching it with the TSA Agents....are of inferior intellect?

That's what he stated. And from what I've seen, most people that are that sure of their "intellectual superiority" tend to be delusional.

Whose brain is guywiththebrain pretending to have?

Yeah, lots of crooks are walking around with $5000 guns that weigh 25 pounds. In case you haven' t seen them a Barrett is a HUGE weapon (in the second Robocop movie when Robocop goes into the theatre where the drug controlled robot has gone crazy he's carrying a Barrett.) they are VERY poor choices for a quick shootout at a traffic stop. The recoil will shatter your shoulder if you're not braced properly.

Sarcasm.

The perps are using hot loads. he had a 9 mm and a 357 magnum. The magnum was loaded with hollow points.

Lovell Mixon, 27, of Oakland who was on parole for assault with a deadly weapon. Police said. He had no-bail warrant for his arrest for violating parole. He has prior convictions in Alameda County for grand theft and possession of marijuana.

Since when is a 357 an assault weapon? Was the 9 a tech?

Also dose anyone ever notice that any "Assault type attacks" on Police officers seem to happen in California?

And it seems that it is reported only when there is a Democrat in office?

A Single round for 50 cal Barret cost $6-$8.......not the choice of thug's

Rastline, I thought Arnie is a Republican?

You must sell guns!

THe Problem is the DRUGS the symptom is the violence. Get that please in your head!

The DRUG POLICIES of the USA are bankrupt and have KILLED MILLIONS of people around the world.

STOP the War on Drugs, This felon could not legally own any gun and YET it happened.

It's because violence in our society is only approved of when it travels downward from the government. We do not accept violence traveling upward toward the government because we are propagandized to believe that it is wrong.

No smelly, my comments are showing the violent and deadly double standard that exists. A bunch of cops can open fire on an unarmed guy and face no penalty whatsoever as long as they can convince people that they thought the guy was armed. (They can even lie about that, and judges and juries will take a cops word over almost anyone elses) But a civilian who shoots a cop, even if it IS an accident, is unlikely to even be taken into custody alive, let alone get off with the same slap on the wrist cops get when they gun down unarmed people.

Dave,

I've never in all of my years heard someone condone any event when a cop shoots an unarmed civilian. There's no doubt that accidents have occurred, as well as simply rogue cops intending to commit a crime. However, to hear someone taking joy in the fact that a criminal wins this round is beyond disgusting. If it helps, it is "equally" as disgusting when ANY person, cop or otherwise, would shoot an unarmed civilian.

Stick to the facts of THIS incident... a murderer of four cops was taken down by a SWAT team. No noise of police brutality or inappropriate response. Save your venom for the next time a "bad" cop deserves it. These deceased cops and their families, unless further evidence comes forth, deserve my respect and condolences. They do a thankless job that can sometimes end with gunfire. On the better days, they only have to deal with folks like DaveFromPhilly.

Really? Then you should pay closer attention. The cops that beat the crap out of Rodney King didn't even face disciplinary action until there was a three day riot. The cops that shot Diallo in NYC (42 times!!!) didn't go to jail. There's dozens of instances of cops shooting unarmed innocent civilians and facing nothing more severe than a brief suspension.

How well do you think YOU'D come off if YOU accidentaly shot a cop? Do you think you'd get a light fine and be back at work in a few weeks?

>>>>Stick to the facts of THIS incident<<<<

I am, the article mentions civilians taunting cops and cops consoling each other. The cops weren't consoling each other when one of there's shot an unarmed guy earlier so they have no right to expect sympathy from the civilians.

Dave, human nature will always give us the rare bad cop, but you are making a mountain out of a very small hill. I do not have percentages to speak from, but am willing to bet that the unarmed civilian shot by police scenario is minute, compared with the necessary shooting of an armed criminal.

The problem is that the amount of "rare bad cops" is increasing thanks to lower hiring standards.

Rare bad cop?

When I was in 8th grade 12 big fat Philly cops beat the crap out of a handcuffed John Africa. Was only ONE of them a bad cop?

When I was 21 I watched as a the police department burned down an entire block of houses and fired on people fleeing the flames with their children. 13 people, including 5 children under the age of ten died in that blaze. Was there just one 'rare bad cop' involved there? That was a quarter century ago now, things haven't really improved.

dave,

Police have every right to use deadly force if the situation warrants it, whether the civi has a gun or not. you should put on a uniform and walk through one these dangerous hoods unarmed and see what happens to you. or for that matter take a weapon, you'll die anyway. you should be on your stinkin knees praying for these police officers who put their lives on the line very day for unappreciative people like you.

How does the situation 'warrant the use of deadly force' when the person is unarmed and innocent?

Dave yes it does... You do not need a weapon to be deadly or dangerous to the life of other or the police officer... Many police officers have died when they had gotten into a struggle for their lives where the "unarmed" criminal took their gun durring the struggle.. Police have every right to shoot someone posing any kind of threat.. And if you are posing a threat to make a police officer shoot you then you are either incredible dumb, a violent and dangerous perosn, or a criminal...

Dave you are incredibly ignorant... Or you probably are a criminal yourself... I'm willing to bet you have been arrested before..

being arrested doesn't make you a criminal...

it's that whole innocent until proven guilty thing our judicial system is based on.

Danger, umm I don't think I had stated that being arrested makes you a criminal... I was merely proving an example of assumption and ignorance on the same level he him self practices... It was done with intent to provoke a response and see what he would have to say...

But hey, you managed to post a irrevalant response to my post :P

Dave, explain how an unarmed individual shoots and kills 4 cops...if you can then...you work magic....besides, your irrational babble and lack of focus show you are a complete idiot, sorry...go back to prison with your buddies and enjoy your cold bologne sandwich...

He is talking about the kid that the transit police shot earlier. And the police isued a arest warant for him and is being charged with murder 1. There are just as many dumb white people shot by police as blacks.

that is true Heinz 57 steak sauce :P If you so much as lurch at a cop in a threatening manner, they should be allowed to shoot your dumb ass... If they don't you should thank god they had incredible restraint that 99 percent of society isn't capable of..

99% of society is incapable of restraint? What? Really?

You're right Dave, there were some bad cops in Philly so those Oakland cops deserved to die.

What an idiot.

Dave, you need to seek help or be institutionalised or something. I have a feeling you've been institutionalised before haven't you?

Attacking personal character is not refuting an argument...

just fyi

Why don't you ask that street vendor those crooked new york cops shot to death for reaching for his identification and he was un-armed!!!! Why not ask the security guard who was sodomized while in police custody!!!! We all remember mark fuhrman the lying Racist LA cop, who bragged about manufacturing evidence to convict minorities!! As Bones Thugs and Harmony put it F#ck The police.

Dave. That cop that shot that kid is on trial for murder. So he's not really getting away with anything. BTW I have noticed that people who dont like cops are usually breaking the law, have broke it, or are going to.

Actually, there are many reasons people don't like cops. I feel awful about these officer's dying and my heart goes out to their families. I don't agree with people taunting them - I think that is sick.

But I fear police and not because I have ever been a criminal.

I fear them even when I've needed them because at the age of 12 after being raped a female officer who took my report called me liar and a slut. I was strip searched in front of three male officers. My crime? Nothing. I had been repeatedly raped. A slut? I don't f*ing think so. I was a little girl who still played with dolls for Christ sake. The guy even turned himself in. Did I ever receive an apology for being yelled and sworn at? No. Even after he was found guilty in a court of law.

At the age of 19 a man beat me, knocked me out, and tried to shoot me, when I came to I escaped and was helped by witnesses. He was well known in his neighborhood. An alcoholic that went batty from time to time but generally accepted in his small town (I mean who doesn't have their quacks?). When I showed up to the police station bleeding, brused, burned, and terrified two cops insulted me, one grabbed my arm where I had been injured to lead me along to get pictures and I got to listen how they went on about the guy who tried to kill me affectionally - how he was a great guy, used to coach foot ball, blah, blah, blah. They also argued over which one of them would have to take the time to take my pictures, cause they just werent' in the mood to deal with that kind of sh*t that day. A friend later took me to the hospital where the emergency doctor commented that the police should have called an ambulance because of the shape I was in. I had injuries consisted with a serious car accident (burns, lacerations, bruises, whiplash, and a concussion).

So yeah, I am scared about ever needing a cop again or being pulled over. I know there are some great cops out there but I've also seen some pretty crappy examples.

Where I live - cops driving up on the sidewalk because they are too distracted on their little monitors to pay attention to driving. Like the cop that drove me home after my boss rolled her van with us in it three times, he was driving crazy because he was playing around on his monitor...just after we got in an accident! This is not the kind of example I want any police officer ever setting for my children.

They are there to serve and protect - that is what these other officers in this article were doing and my heart breaks for their families as they put their life on the line doing their job the right way...to the rest of the crap that gets away with wearing a uniform...I don't know how you managed to get your jobs but you broke my faith in a system I had always believed in growing up and to some extent my faith in humanity that you could ever be allowed to serve in such a position all without my EVER being a criminal.

Thanks tons.

Dave is referring to the Fruitvale BART incident of a few weeks ago. Dave is just mad at the world!

Police have every right to use deadly force if the situation warrants it, whether the civi has a gun or not. you should put on a uniform and walk through one these dangerous hoods unarmed and see what happens to you. or for that matter take a weapon, you'll die anyway. you should be on your stinkin knees praying for these police officers who put their lives on the line very day for unappreciative people like you

Who made them "GOD"?

Who made them "GOD"?

Let's see, The Declaration of Independence, The U.S. Constitution, The California State Constitution, City of Oakland Bylaws. The people they are trying to protect.........

Rob you are a moron just like the rest here that think shooting an unarmed individual isn't at times the very thing that saves a cops life.. Before you ignorant children that have no concept of the real world and live in this fairy tail of bliss, I suggest you consider the consequences when you the cop has a gun for protection and has to make a choice to either fight this individual with the possibility to losing your firearm or shooting this individual...

So here is what i want you ignorant idiots to do.. Go walk down the most dangerous hood and see how far you get... See if you think shooting an unarmed Gang member would save your life.... Half of you are too uneducated to understand..

As for bad cops.. Sh_it happens and you seriously expect to have a 100 percent good cop police force? There are fewer bad cops getting off than there are criminals getting off for crimes they commit..

I agree.. most people that hate cops have been: pulled over, arrested, had to many parking tickets..Or they are: a criminal, ex-con, a child/teen, someone who can't handle athority figures, or someone who has been burned by a bad cop...

Seriously, Grow up... Grow some skin and learn to obey the laws, fix your tail lights, and educate your self on how dangerous it is to be a cop...

You kids pick out incidents of bad cop crimes as if they are 90 percent of the activity cops take part in.. Cops go through hundreds of calls each day.. If it was so bad you would have cops killing innocent children every hour or even every week... I only hear these stories like once every 4 years if Im lucky..

Anyone else find it ironic one of the people defending the rights of police to use excessive force any time they feel like it has the screen name SniprKlr . That kind of illustrates the mentality that most of the anti-police posts are referring to. "I am a police officer - I have a gun - Do what I say or I will kill you." Thats NOT justice - Its NOT keeping the peace - Its NOT protect and serve. Matter of fact this sounds a lot like the guys the military are shooting in the war on terror.

Hilter was democratically elected. The SS/Gustapo were a government sanctioned organization with government granted police powers. Jews were illegal residence breaking the 'law'.

Anyone who thinks all elected officials have the peoples interests at heart - Anyone who thinks all laws are good and legitimate - Anyone anyone who disagrees with those laws deserves a jackboot upside the head - You should look at the path the last set of people who agreed with you went down.

Would some one please tell me that this is NOT related to those Oakland riots, people are not stupid my guess is yes this is directly related to the Oakland riot. Unfortunately from the sounds of the protest, and from the oppressed community by none other then the poe poe it is going to take more then talk correction, hot air the situations involved here is just this incident were the cops were also killed, people in Oakland are going to speak and actions are going to change with the cops, why? because it is with the cops that situations usually come to reality to bad for the cops, and to bad for the young African American man who lost his life for exchange to take action NOW. I'll cry about it later, lets get to work, those justice of peace officers they know so lets see some action.

I'm riding up the road. My wife is asleep, my little son and daughter, too. My big son, 5 years old, is in his car seat behind me, backseat driving as usual, watching the road, watching the instrument panel. Suddenly the red lights are flashing behind me. I pull over. A cop demands my papers (sound familiar) and goes to his car. Presently, he returns and hands me a ticket for speeding; gets in his car and drives away. Hardly a word goes between us, and my son just sits there, sucking his thumb.

As my wife and I discuss this, he interjects, "Daddy, you weren't speeding!"

I mailed in the fine, and ever since, my kid, 31 now, has never trusted a cop.

Who made them "GOD"?

Let's see, The Declaration of Independence, The U.S. Constitution, The California State Constitution, City of Oakland Bylaws. The people they are trying to protect........

How does the Delcaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution relate to making a cop God?

Does not the Declaration of Independence declare one away from totalitarism and forced subjection? And the Constitution actually says what gooberment can not take away from the individual, that they are rights, not priviledges bestowed by gooberment. In neither document does it give the authority of life and death to any ONE individual, but what it does say is that all people are "innocent until proven guilty", in a court of law and judged by their peers.

As far as cops putting their lives on the line for me, please don't offer, 'cause you knew the risks when you signed up.

Shooting an unarmed individual is NEVER acceptable. There are other ways to subdue the suspect. But to day cops go from zero to deadly force. With nothing in between.

If I called the police right now and told them I was barricading my self In my own home? I'd have half the police FORCE in my front yard telling me to come out. And if I didn't, they would turn off the electricity and the water. Then I'd be tear gassed, then they would throw percussion grenades. Then they would storm the house. If I survived they would drag me out through the dirt with a K9 hanging on to my arm. Then? 4 or 5 of cops would beat the @!$%# out of me as they cuffed me. Citing I wasn't being cooperative and I wasn't following their orders. Like I was in the same police academy as they were. and I should instinctively understand what they want. Now once I was cuffed and lying in the gutter I would get to listen to them trash talk me and tell me how I was going to jail.

And why did I deserve all this. Because I made a defiant phone call.

As for the police having a dangerous job. So what? It's what they signed up for. Actually it's what most people that sign up to the FORCE want.

Maybe if the FORCE was a little selective they wouldn't have so many bad apples.

Another point. Does the FORCE really think the Amereican People have not realized that it's trying to become more militaristic?

It was the intention of the American people to created the police department. With limited authority. This concept has now developed into an occupying force.

My biggest concern in regards to this shooting is it will be an excuse for the police FORCE to claim even more control over the American People.

Freedom? Whats that???

"Anyone else find it ironic one of the people defending the rights of police to use excessive force any time they feel like it has the screen name SniprKlr . That kind of illustrates the mentality that most of the anti-police posts are referring to. "I am a police officer - I have a gun - Do what I say or I will kill you." That's NOT justice - Its NOT keeping the peace - Its NOT protect and serve. Matter of fact this sounds a lot like the guys the military are shooting in the war on terror."

First off what a childish thing to say.. Seriously, this expresses your immaturity.. Screen names are just screen names... Whether they are meant to sound kewl, or are meant to display a personal meaning or Identity.. Screen names do no indicate someones mentality...

I could easily say that LOLatTheWorld would suggest a human psychological dysfunction to handle the real world.. Someone who ignorantly lives in their own little world and doesn't know anything about the real world.. Sadly you display more of a connection to your screen name than I apparently do... The context of my posts was not to defend or condone bad cop behavior or crimes.. My context was purely based on stating the facts of why cops have to be allowed to use deadly force on any persons posing a serious threat to the cops life or to the lives of others around him or her.. You can just as easily kill a man with your bare hands as you can with a weapon.. If you are dumb enough to aggressively lunge at a cop he has every right to shoot you in self defense if the provocation is deemed serious enough to warrant it..

You need to watch the video on youtube where a traffic cop was in for the fight of his life when the person he pulled over took his gun and shot him... Suggest you also look up statistics on how many cops die a year from having their firearm taken from them by "unarmed" individuals... Your ignorance is quite apparent... I'm sorry that you hate cops... Perhaps you hate laws too.. Maybe you just can't handle the real world... Life isn't fair and Justice isn't always served on either end of the law.. Get over it and grow a pair.. Learn responsibility for your own actions and respect those of others.. Stop labeling every cop as some sort of child killer because in reality that is false...

You don't even go through 1 5th the stress level on your worse day than cops do on a good day.. You people don't know a damn thing about being a cop or what it's like to be spat on just because you enforce the laws.. It's like watching a bunch of spoiled Vietnam protesters spit on our soldiers... It's pathetic.. Most of all it's complete Ignorance..

I am in no way condoning Dave's thinking, but if you seen the Parking Authority in Philly on A&E's Parking Wars show, you may have an understanding of what Philadelphians go through.

Really? This is off topic but OPD's recruiting website lists officer starting pay at $70k plus "rich benefits package." opdjobs.com

Wow! I didn't know bullies should get 80,000 dollars per year.

Your job does not have a life exspetancy of less then 5 years.

99% of police officers never have to even draw their weapon during their entire career. "Less than 5 years life expectancy"? What exactly do you mean?

Police rarely ever use their weapons.

Police rarely ever use their weapons.

Yea. usually intimidation is enough.

look at the police death rate for oakland it is one of the highest in the country. Dc is worce. the health and saftey office lists it at 9 percent. so in 5 years half the cops will be dead.

Oakland. Sounds like a good place to put up a 10 foot high fence around the whole place, get all the innocent people out and let the parole breakers with assault weapons have at it.

hell when I posted this last night the cops werent dead. I do like Jolly Rogers idea..lol

Interesting comment by Heinz 57. Anyone notice the similar demographics of Oakland and Wash., D.C.?

You forgot overtime, and there is plenty of it in Oakland! Most pull in over $100 grand a year. The wives of the four dead officers won't be seeing anymore of that however!

But in washington DC a lot of the criminals live in a big white house or in a huge hall. And wear suits

illegal alien? drug culture?

Turn off the TV man, you're buying into the propaganda.

Well to be fair it's more than likely that he was some kind of criminal...a gangster on parole or someone holding a lot of drugs or illegal weapons. Or someone who was on crack or meth or one of those other drugs that people flip out on.

I'm not saying this guy was an innocent by any means, I'm just saying it's no GREATER A TRAGEDY WHEN A COP GETS SHOT THEN WHEN A CIVILIAN GETS SHOT, and if the Oakland police are looking for sympathy from the people they're supposed to protect then they should hold their OWN to as high a standard of behavior as they hold civilians.

That's likely, but it's possible the guy was provoked too. Why do people always side with the police? I've seen cops lie to get a conviction. I've seen cops conspire to cover up excessive force.

You should read the bios of the officers. One was born in Oakland and coached the youth center basketball team. Helps troubled youths. On top of working 12 hour days he found time to help out in his comunity and some piece of sh** two time looser shot him. He had a no bail arest warant. He had shot a kid previously during a robery that is why he was on parole. The new law should be 3 strikes and you are a organ donor. Get back to hard labor in prisons. Chain gangs People forget if you have a fellony the constitution takes away ALL YOUR RIGHT

Local cops always cover up for each other. In Vegas we have had several instances where a cop was cleared of wrong doing only to be indicted and often convicted by federal prosecutors. Cops do their jobs because they like the power it gives them over people,not because they care about the people of the community

precisely.

Though to be fair there are some good cops out their... but they are in the minority.

You are absolutely right Joe F Las Vegas. Seems everyone knows this except the handful of imbeciles on this site. Cops are bad news!!!!

Regardless of what culture he came from, presuming he was no where near handling weapondry that the cops came through the door with, and the fact that we can also presume he was not wearing a vest, he had to be one damn good shot to kill 3 cops BEFORE the cops opened up on him with FULLY automatic MP5's in a blind HAIL of bullets to take him out.

This guy KNEW he was a dead man walking after the traffic cop died, and my guess is that he was on a mission to take as many cops as he could with him. I would not be surprised that if in a couplre of days we find out he had some sort of marksmanship training.

To kill 3 cops that fast, had to be head shots.

Nuff said........

His name was Lovelle. That doesn't sound like an illegal immigrant name to me.

The first two cops had it coming. Look, the guy was an ex-felon that was on parole and had a parole violation. It's the states fault for letting felons have guns in their cars. He was only protecting his second amendment rights! This is Oakland for God's sake. The officers should have come out with their guns a blazen. Big mistake on their part,. I say fire all the police in Oakland. Let the citizen's protect themselves. They have the right mentality to do it.

I would never, ever be a cop in Oakland, it's a lose, lose proposition. The citizens hate you, and the bad guys are out to kill you. There is no amount of money they could pay me to care about those people and it starts at the mayors office!

Say that the next time someone who is "only protecting his second ammendment rights" shoots you in the head because you ran into the back of his car, or better yet wanted your car. Hey he was only protecting his rights right?

Angry, It takes alot for me to think what someone has wrote is really stupid

They're not volunteers, they're professionals. They get paid.

I dont' think you find volunteer cops anywhere.

Actually, daveformphilly, individuals on your side of the country may not, but where I come from, folks do volunteer, folks with real onions.

BS. These cops were OPD...they get paid. Please point to a police department that arms volunteers and gives them the authority to make arrests and dispense justice. You can't because that doesn't exist in this country.

And you know what you call 'volunteer cops'? You call them 'vigilantes'.

Dave....where I come from, and yes it is out West, they are called Sheriff's Reserves and City Police Reserves. They volunteer all of their time. They buy their own weapons, ammunition, and uniforms. They have the right to make arrests when they are on duty. But then, the beginning pay for a deputy is $ and the City police is less than that.

Washington state, east side, Sheriff's dept.

We can handle it. I think it's hilarious how many folks from the right coast think life ends at the Mississippi River. That's all right though, you just stay there.

Dave, once again you show your stupidity and ignorance. A piece of caca like you needs to do more homework prior to commenting....Auxillary police in NY are volunteers...go back to prison, please...spare everyone of your stupidity, thanks...

There are reserve police just like volunteer fireman. they only get a free lunch nothing else they buy all there equipment and weapons them self. If you think police are so corupt put your money were your mouth is and go to the academy and be a honest cop.

Why don't you heed your own advice Heinz 57 ???

Actually, my dad was a volunteer cop in Illinios back in the early 80's, so it DOES exist.

He didn't really do much of anything when he was called in, just driving around and if he saw anybody driving suspiscously he could pull them over. I think they only used him when they had a major situation that involved alot of the cops on duty and he was just a backup.

Either way, you are wrong on that point.

I am a reserve officer. I work on the weekends.

Which explains your obvious bias when posting here. I met just a few decent cops, the rest were a-holes power freaks and retarded racist. Maybe if you were the one on the receiving end of Racial Profiling your opinion wouldn't be so naive. I was pulled over in North Carolina by a bigoted cop for allegedly speeding, this bastard arrested my for a stale pack of cigarette papers that was found under the seat of a used car I had just purchased two days prior. I was stationed at Fort Fisher AFS Kure Beach, NC and just bought the vehicle. But being African American I had no rights and went to jail for the night. The next morning the NCOIC of the Security Police on Base signed me out and said he could have done that when I was first arrested. FYI I was on base when this cop stopped me and the ticket was dropped when I went to court since the cop didn't clock me and only profiled me. Now you explain to me how do you get arrested for alleged speeding and have drug smuggling thrown in because you are young and African American. I was in the Air Force fresh out of technical training at my first assignment and this was my welcome to NC. Well that and waiting over four hours for a cab at Wilmington NC airport, since in 1978 they did not pick up African Americans travelers regardless if your were a civilian or military personnel!!

By volunteers I mean they had a choice to be take the job, they weren't conscripted. It had nothing to do with their paid status; OPD officers start at $70k per year. Sorry for the misunderstanding and from taking away from the meaning of my original post.

ah, and blake seems to be biased to due to un-resolved past issues, deal with it, it happens, it sucks.

Blake - I have to say, 1978 and NC - it's not really too surprising, the profiling. Today, I would be quite inclined to hire an attorney to get satisfaction, if I were in your shoes. My sister just moved to NC - now 30 years later, it's still full of yahoos - she was surprised to see a kindergartner with a "rat tail", that sort of thing. A lot has changed in 30 years tho', and will continue to, I'm sure.

Sean,

You are a stupid, ignorant, uncaring, and self-centered piece of crap! "deal with it, it happens, it sucks". Typical words for a person who has never been mistreated at the hands of someone corrupt. Your whole attitude is, "well it never happened to me, so I don't care". BS! The reason there are so many corrupt people in our justice system, is because the majority of the public thinks that these "sacrifices" (I use the term sacrifice because I'm refering to the intimidation and bullying of normal everyday law-abiding citizens, in order to establish a "greater cause", meaning keeping the general public in check using absolute fear) are perfectly acceptable and when they happen, they just tell the victim to move on and forget it happened. Case closed, no compensation or apology at all. You just do one thing that is inconvenient to the system and see what happens. I will GUARANTEE they won't just forgive and forget.

yup, definetlly never dealt with it since I was the only tan person in my whole HS when 9/11 happened. yup sure did never deal with any such thing. Get used to the idea your not the only one who had to deal with crap.

now continue on with your pre-conceived notions of being victimized by all the evil money grubbing, scare tactic using, unethical , bigot cops out there who are just like the ones who victimized you 30 years ago.

and did I say forget about it? no, I didn't. I said deal with it. Like all the rest of us.

Now whos biased in their opinions?

I am mixed race Blake AFVET My grandmother is african american. 99 percent of the cops are good guys. I work rainer valley the getto here in washington. I cut a lot of people slack for things i could site them or put them in jail for. Becouse kids make mistakes and so do cops. When it comes time to shoot you have half a second to decide. You have to decide if that is a real gun or toy, Is it something else. The black comunity was up in arms when the police started using tasers. Cant have it both ways. makes it were you can stop someone without killing them

Your utopia is called anarchy, and I don't think you really want to go there. You make very broad assumptions about "today's police force" having "a chip on it's shoulder". I have several friends in law enforcement, all of which are humble men.

Did you have a bad experience? Or did the fear of some idiot shooting you scare you off?

Nope, i'm just a wuss, hence the fact i was in the military too.

Oh and by the way, why do you think anarchy is bad?... because the TV says so? I bet you think anarchy is all about rape and murder and stuff, right? Try reading some political philosophy on the subject, somebody like Kropotkin, circa 1890. You're government tells you anarchy is bad because if the say it's good they'll lose money and power.

Parden my uneducated pass at the meaning of anarchy. In my humble opinion, anarchy is every man doing what is right in his own eyes, and if that includes taking my car, so be it.

Again, I'm thankful for every person in "blue", protecting us from scum such as this shooter.

...but who protects us from the "boy's in blue"?

In case you haven't noticed, this country is turning into a police state. Cops are armed with bigger weapons. Your civil and constitutional rights are being evicerated. Police agencies are lowering their hiring standards and hiring more officers.

...and on and on....

Boom...it doesn't matter what your humble opinion is, words have meanings. Like the man said read some political discourse before bandying words about that you CLEARLY don't understand.

danger

move to the hood and live life to the fullest

Hey davefromphilly, I skipped reading Kropotkin, and went to dictionary.com instead. I have included their definition for you, someone who CLEARLY skipped basic English. I believe my example can be supported by the definitions below, at least a product of the anarchic state. I would have included the meaning of 'anarchic' as well, but this should be simple enough for you to CLEARLY understand...so while number three supports your definition, the remainder support mine.

an⋅ar⋅chy

–noun

1.
a state of society without government or law.

2.
political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy.

3.
a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

4.
confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

factbasedselling: I actually grew up in Detroit... in a poor neighborhood... so I've seen the whole "hood" thing. It's not that bad, and I'm saying that with two muggings under my belt.

Boom: look up physics in the dictionary, then memmorize the definition... then you'll be a physicist! That is the logic you're using.

You are saying that my definition of anarchy is not supported by the dictionary? I was accused of not understanding the meaning of anarchy, "bandying about" words above my 'caste'. There now, I'm also an expert on all things Indian. Does one look within oneself, perhaps after years of higher education at a liberal arts college, to have the right to understand the meaning of 'anarchy'? I guess you are right, as long as we stick to the third definition only, and I immerse myself in the intelectual pursuit of the "theory" of anarchy. Perhaps then, I would be deemed worthy to give a simple definition of that vaunted word, anarchy.

You're missing the point that the dictionary leaves out.

Anarchy: ancient greek anarchia, (an) without, archia (govern/rule).

That is the real definition because it is the origin of the word. It is a school of greek philosophy, mainly Cicero and the cynics. Just because the government and Webster want to add their opinion into the dictionary doesn't make it true.

Danger, it's too late at night for this discussion, but thanks for the correction. As we both know, definitions change with the centuries. In a perfect world, anarchy would be wonderful. However, mankind is not capable of living in peace, or "without rule", because of the very nature within. If it is possible, it hasn't happened yet...

Sorry for the extreme deviation from the original topic. No offense to the seriousness of the article in question.

Good Night.

I will agree our species is not ready yet... but it's still a concept/philosophy i agree with and think is possible someday.

good night to you!

And danger you should be in prison.

For what?

For voicing an opposing opinion I guess?? But then this Idiot Supreme probably has the hots for a moron like moose patty palin, which further explains their lunacy. As we all know those who are of low education and possess the basic in mental processes will become the lemmings "ameriKKKan sheeple" who will demonize all who are of the free thinking nature. The mind truly is a terrible thing to waste.

a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

I want this kind of society...er, I mean anachry. Then you can just move to the group that you like the most

U mugged people you admitted to it

Just because someone has a gun and a badge doesn't make them any better than anybody else. Unfortunately today's police force has a chip on it's shoulder, a superiority complex, a severe lack of knowledge of the constitution, and can act with near impunity...

... and those are the reason I am no longer a sworn police officer.

Here are some inside information 40 % of police were bullied as a child the other 60 % take the job becouse they want to help people. police become an ass becouse of the job. I let a kid go for having a Joint 16 year old african american kid. Only minor offences on his rap sheet. 2 Days later he was a shooter in a drive bye. I still wonder if i had busted him for the joint would he be better off now? One thing i do know a 15 year old would be alive and the 6 year old school girl that got hit by a stray bullet would be able to walk.

Most likely the approx. 370k other people in Oakland would like some protection from the jerks running the streets - Cali prisons are over-flowing, since they are used for drug offenders and the mentally ill - no money left for treatment centers. And forget prevention programs and extra programs for education in schools.

Carl, what do you want to do with them, Calif. has no $$ to house them! Conservatives keep whining about tax cuts, so where does the money come from?

They will be spilling into the streets!

It is going to get worse with the thousands more that are to be released.

>>>>>Oakland sucks big time<<<<<

That's because Al Davis went senile years ago.

Ohhh...you meant the city. Yeah, that's no Xanadu but it's not as bad as the football team.

Poor Jamarcus Russell, all that talent going to waste.

robbie,

it must be pretty bad to be worse than N.O. that is the cess pool of America.

What is really disturbing the number of people who support the police and are also giving votes to jads,tells you something about the pro-police mentality

old timer,

they are not cowards like you

Gee thanks factbasedselling. Coward huh? Now I know why I ducked that sniper at Saipan

Old timer, your are absolutely right...but that rambo mentality is part of most police officers in this country. it must be part of the training of todays police offices and the fact that they are not accountable. How often have you seen police offices driving and violating traffic laws one after another? Lane change without indicating, cutting in on other cars. driving faster than the speed limit (yes, most of you may be surpriced: police officers are not allowed to drive faster than the speed limit, exception, emergency and than they have to indicate that exeption so they don´t put other people in harms ways.) However, coming back from some European countries (where police officers apparently get another training and have a different attitude towards their fellow citizen) it is very noticable how this macho behavior is displayed on our streets and influences the image of the police officers generally. Ever notice how people are affraid to overtake a police car, even when the speed limit would allow? when stopped, people say out of fear: yes sir, no sir. Sick! But what happends if you don´t...? 40 years of driving here and abroad have shown me the difference. I was threatend with arrest or hand cuffing when protesting unwaranted citations and I mean unwaranted. Such hapenings I have never experience in Europe. People here fear the police, a terrible situation for a country which promotes democracy and freedom. I am sure that the tragic death of those 4 officers could have been avoided at least by two of them. We dont know much about the 26 year old "criminal" but that he is now being villified and that he was not born as criminal. People seem to be so ready to cry "crucify" without checking on the details. Also the "criminals" are part of the society that we are responsible for. But many cry here for harder punishment and other draconic measures, ignoring that we have laws and that more punishment does not mean a thing. Rehabilitation is a foreign word to our jutice system. But if most of you still want to live in the "Wild West" instead of taking this incident to think about how things can be done better than do and don´t complain here. Pay for it! The US is already imprison more of its citizen than any civilized country and has no more money to pay for all the prisoners...and no more prison space....great going!

78th Ave ya right! 18th Avenue maybe, 29th Avenue maybe, 78th Avenue? Browns and Yellows would only be passing through!

Acualy its the people that are diffrent. In italy do you know what happens if the police tell you to stop and you dont? They empty a mp5 into your car. they will kill everyone in the car. Japan if you do not stop you are going to get a a$$ whopping when the capture you. Japan does not have live sentances. If you go to jail for more then 20 years they kill you plane and simple. Most other countries are very harsh on criminals unlike the us we just put them in jail. Middle east stealing gets your hand cut off, Singapore minor offences get you caned. And oh yes drugs is a death sentance in most of the world. if you like no government then go to cambodia or somalia see what happens when there is no government or police. The wifes of the officers will get there pensions and there life insurance.

And they're not getting better anytime soon.

They need John Madden back as head coach.

And so do the Philadelphia Eagles....

MichaelWho? Matt Ryan is awesome, the Falcons are back!

Weather you care about cops or not. Showing disregard for the loss of human life by talking about football only shows sub-human traits.

Old timer, wasn't this scenario exactly what the job description for a SWAT member is? The SWAT members I know are gung ho, and this would have been bread and butter to them. Makes me wonder about their state of mind, but that's who is attracted to those types of jobs.

If the SWAT commander at Columbine had done the right thing, I believe there would have been far less senseless deaths. I know they thought there were propane bombs in the school, but while they played it safe, kids died.

I know on Good authority that the police chief in Colombine deeply regretted the decisions made that day until the day he died. I also know that They had no reason to suspect that a massacre was taking place they thought they had a hostage situation this was pre 911 and it was the first major School Shooting in the USA. I watched the event unfold live on television from begining to end and I was shocked when the death toll was revealed. From an observer standpoint it looked like a hostage stand off not a massacre right up until they made entry.

Me? No. I've got no reason to shoot at anyone. I'm guessing this guy had a ton of drugs in the car or a bunch of illegal weapons....or he was on meth or something else that makes people flip out.

I'm just saying a cops life is worth no more or less than a civilians life, and if they want sympathy from the civilians then they shouldn't 'protect' their own when one of them screws up and kills an innocent unarmed civilian. They should pursue murderers with their full ability and zeal no matter whether the victim wore the uniform or was just a civilian.

But we all know they don't. When a cop gets killed they pull out all the stops, doing unpaid overtime, leaving no stone unturned, etc etc etc.....not so when a civilian is killed.

StrongArm, your'e right, I'm wrong, and that's what makes our country the best in the world. I do not have to like you, but neither do I have the right to silence you.

Thanks for the reminder.

Damn Boom, somebody big enough to admit a mistake actually does post on Newsvine.

Yeah, seriously, what's the world coming to?

A civilian is not a member of the armed forces and since the cop killer was armed he was not a civilian by definition. I am glad he was killed by the cops. If captured live, he would have gotten the death penalty, then all the weenies of the "it's ok to kill a fetus but not a man that killed four cops in cold blood" would be out in force!

dsvefromphilly... You sound like a bitter wanna-be that either never got accepted at the police academy, flunked out, or was let go from somewhere. Very bitter fella. Well, I'll mourn over the loss of a cop's life over yours (a civilian) every single day of the week, and every single hour of that day. So, yes, losing a police officer is extremely more important than losing someone like you.

Yes....agreed.....and how can his comments be collapsed by this on-line community? They serve only to inflame

Amen.

What makes you think he is human?

Sub-human pond scum is what that POS is

Wow, you're really enlightened. Perhaps if the cops showed some concern over one of their own killing an unarmed innocent civilian the civilians would show sympathy when a cop gets shot.

No doubt you're the type of person who can get $hit on and then turn around and thank the people who did it to you, but most people aren't.

Hey Davefromphilly...

The New Year's Day shooting of the unarmed man at the BART station in Oakland was by an Oakland Bay Area Rapid Transit Officer...not a member of the Oakland PD...they aren't the same organization.

Still an officer of the law eyes wide shut, so what's your point?

davefromphilly I don't understand what point your trying to make!! Are you saying there's a cover up of the New years day shooting and that the officer involved was not punished??? He's been arrested and is in the courts system as I type!!! what more do you want??? are you saying that the rest of the cops don't care that someone was murdered??? if they didn't care he'd still be on duty and not in jail!!!!

Every time the cops gun down an innocent civillian there is the "blue wall" mentality where you get the usual dispicable actions:

Accusing the victim of crimes he didn't commit

Making up stories about weapons he was supposed to have had

Claming that the police were merely acting in self defense

Claiming that threats or actions had made the killing necessary

A prime example is the police murders of the immigrant that was unarmed and they ripped apart in a hail of gunfire. They made one baseless claim after another about the guy when it was strictly incompetence on the part of the police.The NY weddding groom shooting was another example,not one cop expressed remorse after the shooting,the only thing they kept saying was that they were glad that none of the cops were hurt and all the cops went home safe.Guliani even went to the press slandering the groom just to cover up their actions.When civillians see this day after day of course they taunt the police when one of them gets shot.It is the only emotional venting they get because the police sure won't investigate themselves,they repeatedly fight civillian oversight boards tooth and nail

You know why the police fight civilian oversight tooth and nail? It's because that oversight is rarely objective and those that become auditors are generally "community activists" with an axe to grind and are anti-police going into the game. On top of that those auditors have no concept whatsoever of what it means to go to work every morning knowing that you might never come home to your wife and kids. I would welcome civilian oversight if it was balanced with those that wore the shield as well as true civilans. Yeah, there are bad cops out there just like there are bad teachers, and bankers, and doctors. It amazes me how so many people want to paint all us cops as bad because of the actions of a few then turn around and whine when someone else drops a sterotype.

I hear you dingles. If it doesn't change I'm outta here. It's been pretty bad lately.

Cut their salarys by HALF across the board and use the money for the training. ALL I ever hear about is we need MORE cops........NO WE DO NOT!!! What we NEED are BETTER trained cops!!

Once they can do the job as professionals and not get themselves KILLED then and after 25 years in service are they ENTITLED to be earning 70 grand.......NOT at 21 yrs old and straight out of the academy.

Nuff said......

hella funny !!!!

Action is faster than reaction. The best shot in the world is toast when the scumbag already has his weapon drawn and has made his plan to use it. I don't know this for a fact but odds are the officers didn't know who they were stopping. If they knew that they were pulling over a dangerous felon, they would have waited for a cruiser and made the stop as safe as they could rather than making the stop from their motorcycles. It sounds like this jackass blindsided them.

first of all the transit officer did not have his weapon up against the victims head he was holding it at waist level pointed down when he accidentally discharged it and that's obvious from the video.A tragic accident that took the life of one individual and ruined the life of another.The payout will go out and all will be forgotten.Now as far as Oakland and Philly there both shvtholes I say we pull the police out and let them kill each other then we go in and remove the bodies and start a new neighborhood.Being a minority myself growing up in a high crime neighborhood then retiring from a police dept of a major city I have been on both sides of the equation I laugh at people like this jerk from jersey who talks about cops killing innocent people in the hood.My question to you dvkhead is have you seen the homicide numbers in Oakland or Philly lately ? Guess what the victims are all minorities and the perps are all minorities. I guess its alright if grandma  its raped then murdered by a fellow brother but if the cops kill some mope it ain't right .Its this kind of ignorant thinking that keeps down.Black on Black Hispanic on Hispanic crime should be your main gripe but unfortunately your to much of an Arsewipe to figure it out.     

Some of the comments on this post just make me ill....I work for a police department as a dispatcher and when an officer pushes his emergency button and the only thing you can hear over the radio is gun fire and the officer trying to get air into his lungs so he can live past this.....then you would change your views on officers. Too many people want to blame all officers for the actions of one or two officers.

Let me say this Police Officers put on a uniform with a bullet proof vest and are only armed with a gun, tazer and a night stick to go out on the streets and make it a safe place for you and everyone else in that city, and this is all the respect you have for them the brave MEN AND WOMEN who keep the streets safe for you at a risk to their safety. Because that is the oath they took "TO PROTECT AND SERVER"

Well I have a challenge for you people who think the cops are such bad people.

Get a job in law enforcement and go on the streets of any city and protect the people who hate you because they had an encounter with an officer that didn't go like they wanted it to go or because they were committing a crime and got caught. You can't blame everyone in a group because one person made you mad wether it be cops or religious groups or ethnic groups.

My God people wake up and smell the roses....If it we didn't have law enforcement then we would be hold up in our homes fighting off people wanting to kill us just because they can.

SALSAJOE I agree with you.

All I ask is that more people think about what they say after all it could have been someone you loved or was related to who got shot and killed because they wore a badge.

RIP to these officers and pray for their families

Amen. You could dispatch for me anyday.

Hey everybody, click on jads name and go to his newsvine page.... then click ignore this person and his comments will no longer show up.

problem solved!

Cool danger, no more mental midget to the tenth power squared. Thanks