Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comIn Africa, some Roman Catholic priests have children, and nuns counsel patients to use condoms against the scourge of AIDS. The faithful even consult traditional medicine men.
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Wow I am the first to express?!
Well, I think it is easier for people to change than for the word of God to change. His word will not pass.
If I were not celibate myself, I think all this teaching would not make any sense to me. But it just happens that I am celibate, and being celibate gives me freedom.
I had to pray a lot and do a lot of charity in order to become celibate but men it is worthy. Such a peace!
All celibates know how that with the help of God it is not even a big deal! God makes miracles, and can work miracles in Africa if we believe and collaborate with the efforts!
Chau!
my I remind you that the aposaple Paul stated that it is better to marry than to burn?
Thanks. I know that I am not burning yet. As soon as I start burning I will marry.
I wonder if the Pope plans to meet with Abuna Paulos [Patriarch of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church]. I wonder further if the Vatican [Pope] will offer to return to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church the many Ethiopian treasures stored in the Vatican's basement vault.
In the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the Patriarch [Pope] Archbishops, Bishops and Bahatawis [Holy Men] are celebite. A Kess [priest] can marry and have children. This church is older than the Roman Catholic Church and as a matter of fact, Ethiopia is the very first naton mentioned in the Holy Bible.
I find it amazing how far behind the times the church is. People are going to have sex, it is a fact. Giving out condoms and teaching people the need for them will help decrease the spread of the disease. The church does not think in a logical manner. Just as he said that violence can only be stopped by religion, his saying that giving out condoms will increase the need to have sex is false. Just because condoms are available on store shelves and for free at many clinics does not mean that the knowledge of condoms makes you want to have sex all the time or with anyone. I know there are condoms and I'm not out getting naked with everyone that walks by, just as if I believe in God I am not prone to the thought of anger or rage that could cause harm to another person. The church is nuts!
It is not condoms what make you what to have sex again, it is more likely having sex that make one have sex again, this great instict, people are capable of controlling wit help because people realistically are not animals. I can see how unusual is this teaching for a society what has given complete freedom to pornography. But it is a fact. Remember that the Church is mostly interested in people saving their souls from sin. The disease is only a consequence of grave sin in great number. Even US in not free from this. Sometimes you have to be bold and cut the disease from the root. Sin is at the root of this problem.
If the Church had so much money in their vaults there will not be a need to go out an do charity in the whole world.
Who is this pope guy and why should anyone in the world care what a guy in a dress wearing red Gucci slippers thinks other people should do? By the way, the guy invites reaction like mine when he sticks his nose into other people's condoms!
Many former Catholics say to the church, "When you pay my bills, you can tell me what to do." Another angle might be considered: If the church wants unwanted pregnancies to go full term (which can ruin the life of a young woman), then the church should welcome the opportunity to take those children, support them financially and place them in good homes. Since they are apparently unwilling to do so, they have no right to dictate to any woman that she should not have an abortion or that a man may not use condoms, even though the last thing in this world he would be willing to do is to support a child he made. Perhaps the church should try dictating to all Catholic single men what they must do! Placing all of this guilt and pressure on young women, particularly those ill-equipped to handle motherhood, is not only wrong but none of their business.
Dear Betz, your accusation follow perfectly under the Catholics lay people more than the Church itself. Because the Church mission is not really to be charity for the world. It is the people of our Church who should be organizing charity etc. The clergy have more a specific mission of preach the gospel. Teach. you see. It is up to us to do the charity. The Church is not like the US Goverment, the church is to teach people about morals of God.
Birth Control with condoms, especially in Africa. where aids is rampid is a necessity not only for conception sake but for the life an innocent child born with aids. For the Pope to speak out against the use of condoms is akin to him sentencing a fetus, mother and/or father to death. I am Catholic but I condemn his 'law' as out and out disregard for life. Is he blind? Could it be he's so removed from reality that he's speaking incongruently? Then maybe he should just stay in the monastery and remain silent. I also wonder how many Priests there are who have died with aids? How many priests have spread aids to young boys and girls because of lack of conception? When will the Catholic counsel accept that the priests and nuns are people and not saints? People go to the bathroom, go to lunch, sleep, and have sexual needs and wants. You got to let all those homones out some how. I'm sure the pope is not exempt from those needs either.
No one is expempt from those needs, insticts. And in the Church we know how we all are sinner trying to become saints. The Pope is always defending life.
If you do not think it is possible is because you do not know too many people who are celibate and live happily. There is in these days more sex all around us, like traps popping out of every media ad. It is hard for people to reflect in their need to become saints. Do not loose your faith. For it is only God who can give enough spiritual strengh to a person that this person can avoid temptations and live free without disease.
If the Church does not proclaim higher stadandrs for saints, anyone could think is a saint already. The Church standards are God's standards. God is always above us.
I'll also something as a woman. We have been chastised since Aristotle and Plato were in view. I don't see that a mans sexual urges are all the fault of women. Priests are male and have a penus you know the gangling thing? They go to the bathroom and have sex with it. That is pretty unclean if you ask me. So don't blame women for being 'unclean' because they happen to have periods. That is really the reason behind the 'unclean' description that priests have of a woman's vagina. Maybe they are jealous of The Blessed Virgin because as a woman she could give birth where as no priest could. I'm going beyond the subject I know. The real point is that poverty stricken people tend to have a huge populous primarily because of a lack of respect for a woman's right to conceive or not. Not only that but these women are treated and taught that it is their duty to be used and abused for a man's pleasure. Children are conceived because the family needs them as workers. When the mother dies with aids it is usually up to the oldest child to care for the rest who are nearly all infected. To tell a subservient woman to say no to a priest would be unheard of. To take away their only protection from a forced conception is inhumane.
The Church is 1 proclaiming respect for woman. We have many woman at the highers level of Church possition: Doctor of the Church. Not even a pope can be that unless He is that Holy.
Priests and nuns refrains from their needs to follow God. That is real giving your life away. Taking about the many good ones ok?
I wonder with so many issues flying back and forth whether some have a chance to reflect on what leads closer to G'd, consider abstinence / condoms when practiced and placed on a scale which leads closer to the Lord. The Popes teachings are Spirit and Life, but you don't see it
Thank you, mfs-979013. Your was the only comment I saw not rooted in hate and ignorance. My only response to this hub-bub is to begin (again) praying heartfully for God to turn all these hearts back to Himself and His teachings. It seems that so many people have truly lost sight of the basics, and why Church teaching says what it says -- it came to us directly from God, and who are we to question that?
What stupidity! Church teachings are nothing but dogma, which is just a way to control people. The pope is an idiot. Well he is very rich and powerful, so maby not an idiot, just a heartless jerk.
Come to think of it, didnt this same church recently excommunicate a 9 year old girl for aborting a baby after being raped by her stepfather? After a doctor determined carrying the baby to full term would likley kill her? How can a religion that professes to be so full of enlightment, still be so cruel and keep getting so many donations?
We do not profess to be full of enlightment. We just profess to have the one Truth faith. We may as well be call "Church of the most awful sinners", but the enlightment comes when, for some misteroious reason, some sinners turn slowly to saints.
Carlos, I kind of see what you're saying... but you failed to truly respond to 11.
In that situation, what is the greater sin? Molesting and raping and impregnating your own stepdaughter or aborting a child that would likely kill the young girl and perhaps even her baby?
Regardless, the bible does not state that using birth control is a sin, and people WILL sin..it is unfortunate that in every country..spouses will cheat on their partners but please please use a condom...why punish your spouse for your sin by then giving him/her an STD?
I would like to add that I think the reason why it is so hard to stomach what the pope is saying..is because he does so from pomp and circumstance.. he is dressed richly in robes and jewels...the vatican has vast treasures and wealth that many people could not even dream of... and yet the pope is telling us what to do...
Jesus was a lowly carpenter, even his birth was humble..Jesus said that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
Newsox, I see. It is hard to understand, our church is often viewed as too rich because they are pompous, but it is also view as too poor when you see how our saints lived while being obidient with their Pope, look at Mother Teresa. The truth is that our Church allows a great range of possibilities unlike other churches were all are poor or all are rich. God is for all.
If you are infected and you just do not have sex with your spouse, you save her life. But in order to do that you must appreciate her life more that "having the pleasure of sex". And funny too, she must loved you so much not to leave you alone but take care of you.
In other words, we need great love, and we can only get that type of love from Jesus's love. The greater sin is always agaisnt the Holy Spirit. a body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. In any case both sins you talked about are really bad, but which one is the greater love...the mother that risk her life for the life or other as Jesus indicated, or a stepdaughter that forgives her raper?
Being excommunicated is not like being expell from the Church. There was a great sin commited, but it could be forgiven. When I sin I can not comulgate and I excomulgate myself. I think the Church is using the case to proclaim that they will always defend life above all.
I don't need love, we need GREAT love.
I don't think anyone views the RCC as poor. I am saying, it is hard for me to stomach the pope telling his people what they should do...when he is in richly dressed robes and holding a gold cross... I know God is for all, not just the rich..like I said.. Jesus was a lowly carpenter, he walked among the poor, the diseased, the thieves and harlots...
Yes, in an ideal world.. a world without any sin at all.. if you were infected (well, in a perfect world you WOULDN'T be infected) you wouldn't have sex with your spouse to save her life.. but wait.. well..you could have sex with your spouse if you used a condom right?
Regarding the 9 year old girl...how can the church expect a CHILD to make that decision..you are looking at this from an adults perspective...think of that child...the child and mother are both at risk of dying now..and i can't even fathom discussing the rape of a stepdaughter by her father and expecting a 9 year old to forgive...God have mercy on his soul.
With time, comes forgiveness as we understand more about love. When that child grows up she will have to make a decision.
Heaven is the ideal place, that's were we are trying to go anyways, we must practice that perfection once in a while on Earth. If you know you wife is infected...why do you still want to have sex with her??? Marriage does not force you to have sex specially when that happens.
Most people do not see the Church as poor because they do not want to see it poor. But in truth it is very poor, and for the poor, I tell you this with certainty because I come from a Country that is poor, third world. And your media barely cares about those, but the Church, oh , they are everywhere...caring.
Don't call yourself a catholic if you don't agree with anyghing the catholic organization stands for.
Note I said "organization". Constantines dream of a fiery cross.
The true church was established with the apostles, the roman government claimed it for their own and defiled it.
The whore of revalation.
It seems that the African nuns and priests have a better handle on their culture and parishoners than the pope. AIDS, poverty,poor health care and nutrition are just a few of the problems facing the people on the continent. Stating that condoms promote promiscuity is irresponsible. When in some regions girls as young as 6 years are being gang raped and tortured and then turned away by their families. The pope sits in his high position at the Vatican, but is not connected to the people. One visit does not make you an expert. The church has been preaching this "for abstinence" and "against birth control" for years. It is time for them to step into 2009 and address the real issues of the people. Religion was created to control the masses and explain things in the dark ages, but people are more educated and less superstitious so it is time to change with the times and use some common sense.
What is the real issue of people? That they can not control themselves, that they no more than animals? They cannot resist their own bodies? How low have we came? , how lower you want to go?
I am glad they had a better respect for humans and families back in the middle ages. DIGNITY.
fix the problem first and then deal with the soul...that is what the salvation army church does for instance...you give a homeless person a meal first and then sit them down to talk about God.
You know it will take a little more than a meal and a talk. But indeed, Catholic Charities does just that.
The pope's teachings on this topic is an outrage. How can any educated person not see the benefits of condom use in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS? I only hope that people use their common sense when considering his teachings. Remember "free intellect"?
I am sorry that the discussion of the Popes' opinion about the use of condoms has shadowed the real scope of his visit for most lay public. I am also scandalized by Spanish authority promissing to send condoms to Africa rahther than help Africna nations improve health conditions for their people. Money and condoms are not solution for HIV-AID in Africa.
If someone expected a different opinion from the Pope he/she makes a terrible miscalculations. Fidelity within marriage is what the Church has been teaching, taking this from scripture.