It is so important to hear from an 83 year old bachelor, who heads an organization best known for the promotion of unhealthy sexual relationships, pedophilia and the general repression of rational intelligent thought, to comment about sexual relationships!

Obviously condoms DO prevent the spreading of AIDS, we all know that. But, you know what, there's an even more effective way: the abolishment of the Church.

This is why I left the Catholic Church. It has got to get its head out of the sand. Will condoms alone stop the spread of AIDS? No. Will they help, perhaps slow its progress? Yes.

Catholics believe that the pope is infallible. This dead head statement is proof positive that this tenant of the Catholic religion is bogus. If Pope Pius XII demonstrated that Popes can stand by silently and let millions be exterminated. This Pope whoever has shown that a Pope can be an active agent in the death of millions.

Darkwood,

That is an outright lie!

How Pius XII Protected Jews

The Pope secretly worked to save as many Jewish lives as possible from the Nazis, whose extermination campaign began its most intense phase only after the War had started. While the U.S., Great Britain, and other countries often refused to allow Jewish refugees to immigrate during the war, the Vatican was issuing tens of thousands of false documents to allow Jews to pass secretly as Christians so they could escape the Nazis.The financial aid Pius XII helped provide the Jews was in the millions of dollars.

Prior to the Nazi invasion, the Pope had been working hard to get Jews out of Italy by emigration. Later he turned his attention to finding them hiding places. The Pope sent out the order that religious buildings were to give refuge to Jews, even at the price of great personal sacrifice on the part of their occupants; he released monasteries and convents from the cloister rule forbidding entry into these religious houses to all but a few specified outsiders, so that they could be used as hiding places. Thousands of Jews—the figures run from 4,000 to 7,000—were hidden, fed, clothed, and bedded in the 180 known places of refuge in Vatican City, churches and basilicas, Church administrative buildings, and parish houses. Unknown numbers of Jews were sheltered in Castel Gandolfo, the site of the Pope’s summer residence, private homes, hospitals, and nursing institutions; and the Pope took personal responsibility for the care of the children of Jews deported from Italy."^[14]

Rabbi Lapide records that "in Rome we saw a list of 155 convents and monasteries which sheltered Jews from Rome. Notice in particular that the Pope was not merely allowing Jews to be hidden in different church buildings around Rome. He was hiding them in the Vatican itself and in his own summer home. In June,1944, Pius XII sent a telegram to Admiral Miklos Horthy, the ruler of Hungary, and was able to halt the planned deportation of 800,000 Jews from that country.

The Pope’s efforts did not go unrecognized by Jewish authorities, even during the War. The Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem, Isaac Herzog, sent the Pope a personal message of thanks on February 28, 1944, in which he said: "The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion which form the very foundations of true civilization, are doing for us unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of divine Providence in this world."^[

Other Jewish leaders chimed in also. Rabbi Safran of Bucharest, Romania, sent a note of thanks to the papal nuncio on April 7, 1944: "It is not easy for us to find the right words to express the warmth and consolation we experienced because of the concern of the supreme pontiff, who offered a large sum to relieve the sufferings of deported Jews. . . . The Jews of Romania will never forget these facts of historic importance."^[18]

Lapide estimated the total number of Jews that had been spared as a result of Pius XII’s throwing the Church’s weight into the struggle to save them is at least 700,000, but in all probability it is much closer to 860,000."^] This is a total larger than all other Jewish relief organizations in Europe, combined, were able to save. Lapide calculated that Pius XII and the Church he headed constituted the most successful Jewish aid organization in all of Europe during the war, dwarfing the Red Cross and all other aid societies.

Albert Einstein: "Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."^[23]

Dear Mr.Pope,

Condoms prevents diseases and pregnancy!?

I am all for abstinence, but in todays world that just is'nt happening. So, teach,educate and give out condoms .

Sex is a natural part of human existence. No matter what the Church preaches, people will still be having sex - it's a biological drive. I don't disagree that the Church wants to try to teach abstinence. However, the Church needs to accept that people won't always follow this doctrine and teach them about the safe alternatives to protect themselves! What is so wrong with educating them on the simple, proven method of using a condom?! This is why I could never join an organization that is so completely stuck in the past, unaccepting of natural biological needs of a human being and preaches against using technological advances to help our species.

Education destroys ignorance. People will make better choices for themselves, and their health and their community, with a little bit of education. My husband is from South Africa. He's told me that is was not uncommon for little girls, and even babies, to be raped because it was thought that having sex with a virgin would cure HIV/AIDS. This is the education level of a lot of African countries. These people need education and information, not religion!

The Catholic Church is like any organization that obtains a certain level of power and influence. They have become more about protecting their position then promoting the original message of the founder (Jesus). The Vatican is not a building that Jesus would ever enter let alone inhabit.

John08. We're talking sex here. People are going to have it, no question there. To expect people not to have sex is ridiculous. It's the over- riding instinct in all of nature besides eating. Wow, God even invented it!
Especially in uneducated countries, where the disease is rampant, a condom is surely going to help prevent the spread of the HIV virus if you're having sex with an infected person. Right? Common sense, yes?

You'll NEVER stop people from having sex and a condom WILL help protect you.

John,

So do you expect everybody in Africa to just stop having sex? Drop the abstinence and get real. People have sex. Get over it.

Im just saying people need to be responsible for their own actions. If theyre worried about getting aids, not having sex is 100% effective. And if you are going to have sex, know who your having sex with. Thats part of the problem with our culture here in America. People go out and think its ok to have sex with anyone they see and then wonder why they get an STD. I understand people arent going to stop having sex, but have some self pride, self control, and be able to take responsiblity.

Hugh,

Bring some facts to the table. You wont will you? You know that whatever you post about I will know more and make you look silly.

Make it a challenge for me skip the easy ones like Nazis, Crusades, Inquisition or Galileo. Those would be just to easy to prove you wrong about.

John wrote:

Are you people serious? So if you use a condom, is there a chance you still get aids, yes. If you dont have sex with the person can you get aids, no. Is that really to hard to comprehend?

No, it isn't hard to comprehend-- the problem is that the Pope (and by extension the Catholic Church) has framed it as an "either/ or" situation, when a pragmatic and practical approach would not dismiss any reasonable method to alleviate the situation, as others above have noted.

More worrying to me, at least, is that the Pope's statement removes any legitimacy from programs that have already proven successful in limiting the scope of this crisis on the African continent.

Condoms are not the answer-- because there isn't only one answer to the question of how to fight the HIV/ AIDS epidemic. This is a case where, his brief of supporting and promoting the values of the Church aside, a pragmatic approach to the relief of the poor and the suffering (which is the primary "talking point" of the Bible, after all) would seem necessary.

#1.7

your catholic church ALIGNED ITSELF with the nazis!!! i guess the catholic church didnt teach you anything about the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933. it outlines things like church levies(taxes) and property. but the most alarming part of the treaty was the fact that all german clergy ranked bishop or higher must take an oath to the nazi party. who signed on this treaty? no other than your hero pope pius.

http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=3131

why does anyone listen to this guy about anything? this is just great, tell a bunch of people with little or no education not to use condoms, just great.

It's sad that the USSR failed. Benedict would be silenced.

I think most Russians would prefer the present political arrangement.

Perry J-read something other than Catholic literature!

Thus the saying,

Live in the world not of the world.

If you can get this concept, you will not have to worry about AIDS. LOL But we aren't very smart you see. We must follow the crowd and have a good old time. We might miss out. We don't want to miss out.

It isn't just the Pope who says abstinence it the only way to not get AIDS, he is one of the only ones who really speaks out about it and takes the heat!! As you can all plainly see what is happening here.

No one wants to stop having sex. Use a condom, Who cares if it has a hole or breaks. It still works. NOT. So lets tell the young ones to play 50/50 with thier lives. Give them all condoms and tell them to take a chance in damaging them selves for the rest of their lives.

John is right, of course (#1.8, 1.15). Abstinence is the only way to completely protect against STDs.

Toosano (#1.13) is also correct in pointing out that a war against sex is one no one can win.

The point that should be taken is that condoms can stop the spread of disease and unwanted pregnancies but do no harm to society or its morals. Condom distribution does not create new sexual activities, as opponents seem to believe.* Toosano and a lot of others have pointed out that the intercourse is inevitable. To stand in the way of condoms is to oppose basic health care. That's both anti-social and un-Christian.

*The argument is, for the most part, that the distribution of condoms would be akin to endorsing intercourse, presumably to unwed couples, minors, and homosexuals. That it would seemingly legitimize sex by suggesting the government and churches say it's ok.

This over-estimates the power of governments and churches to influence biological behavior. This is the third time I've echoed the point that all of the intercourse in question is a foregone conclusion; people are going to have sex. If the government and the churches say they shouldn't, it might lead to a few people abstaining and a few more guilty consciences, but will fall far short of eliminating the primal behavior.

enma3,

I read secular history. Are you another religious bigot that rather believe in myths or do you want facts? I can presetn secular historians for all that I post. Can you post any facts? Can you post any sources?

Its not a question of IF you'll get AIDS or pregnant using condoms while having sex, its just a matter of WHEN. They come off, they leak, they break. Sounds like great protection to me. Kind of like playing Russian Roulette.

While I think what the pope said is ridiculous, I must add this:

Every time there is something in the news about a leader in the Catholic Church, there is a barrage of responses from people that are more interested in venting their personal beefs from experiences they have had with the Church, which probably have nothing to do with the topic. Would it kill you to make an objective response for once? The only thing coming out of your posts is that you fell out with the Church and instead of embracing that as your personal decision, you need to bash the ENTIRE Church to anyone available. That only suggests that you are trying to justify your decision instead of projecting an air of confidence about it. I've got beef with my former denomination, too, but I don't attack the entire Protestant sect because that would be ridiculous.

Seriously...is it that difficult to leave the baggage at home today and just address this particular topic, which is what the pope said and AIDS?

So good to hear that the pope has his vast experience with sex and sexually transmitted diseases to draw upon.

Sort of like how we have to save rich people and corporations "from themselves at taxpayer expense without admitting that they lack the self-control to manage it on their own."?

KyEngineer, good response. I agree.

you could say that about anyone! ladyblue!! So people do not have to do something to learn from it. They can learn from others mistakes.

the pope and church, like our last president are living in la la land and have no idea what it is like to be a regular person as apposed to the exalted positions that they have lived in.
I still remember bush 1 being amazed at seeing his first bar code scanner.
People like these should keep their mouths shut and allow the world to wonder about their intelligence rather that speaking and showing just how dumb they are

The Catholic Cult never had a clue, which is why more and more churches are closing as more and more Americans have had enough of their bigotry.LOL

dewintre wrote:

I think what offends the left, is that they inherently realize that Africans lacks the wherewithal to keep their ****s in their pants... without admitting that they lack the self-control to manage it on their own.

I'm more offended by instances of this type of pathological stereotype, which frames the issue in a moralistic "holier-than-thou" tone without taking into account elements such as a lack of services, resources, communication, or education, and belittles people who are not "just like us".

I would agree with the Pope that the real solution to AIDS is a moral solution. However, it is difficult to control behavior such as adultery and pre-marital sex, etc. In lieu of behavior control, condoms do prevent the spread of AIDS.

Catholics believe that the pope is infallible. This dead head statement is proof positive that this tenant of the Catholic religion is bogus. If Pope Pius XII demonstrated that Popes can stand by silently and let millions be exterminated. This Pope whoever has shown that a Pope can be an active agent in the death of millions.

The church is once again tacitly condoning genocide. The church is placing dogma ahead of the survival of Africans! Pro-life church, indeed.

Condom use slows the spread of HIV. That fact is not up for debate no matter how much the church wants to spin it. AIDS is killing millions in the undeveloped and developing world. If the church decides to act as accomplices in those deaths, Africans, as well as the rest of the world, should find a new place of worship.

If we were really serious about eliminating AIDS, we would treat this just like we have other deadly infectious diseases like the plague, leprosy, Ebola, etc. in the past. We would isolate and care for the infected until such time as a cure was found or they died off taking the disease with them. Either way, the rest of the population is protected. Until people are ready to take that step, do me a favor and give it a rest.

I would agree with the Pope that the real solution to AIDS is a moral solution. However, it is difficult to control behavior such as adultery and pre-marital sex, etc. In lieu of behavior control, condoms do prevent the spread of AIDS.

What moral solution? There are entire countries in Africa that have >20,000,000 people and less than 300 doctors! Clinics in some countries are a 3 days walk away! How do you decide who to marry when nobody in your village is getting tested?

AIDS is not a moral dilemma! Jesus Christ, most of the people of Mozambique don't have running water or safe electricity. How do you expect 21,000,000 to understand how HIV is contracted, and secondly get to the village that actually has a clinic? How freaking obnoxiously naive are you?

AIDS has no moral solution so long as that "solution" is not doing the one thing that keeps the species alive. AIDS is a world health crisis that deserves our best efforts. Sometimes those efforts fly in the face of catholic dogma. Too f-ing bad.

Say what you will. The pope weighing in on sexual matters is ridiculous. I would never take advice from somone who has no personal knowledge to draw upon , whatever the subject.

And I certainly would never take advice from anyone in any organization that could not even prevent their own priests from harming children.

hahahaha,

you got that right, ladyblue - like going to the butcher for new furniture.

I'm more offended by instances of this type of pathological stereotype, which frames the issue in a moralistic "holier-than-thou" tone without taking into account elements such as a lack of services, resources, communication, or education, and belittles people who are not "just like us".

As they say, the truth doesn't come dressed for dinner. What offends you WmRAllen is the least of my worries.

And for the record, self-control worked wonders in the USA. Africans have the condoms if they choose to use them. I'm hedging a bet they'll continue consulting witch doctors and having sex with virgins to cure the disease.

dewinter:

You don't know what you're talking about.

Palin voter?

The last time I heard anything about the Church in Africa was when the priest down there comitted genocide. I think it went something like this: Some crazy women in Africa claimed she was talking to God or whomever and that God had entered her body and was using it as a voice. The Priest in Africa told the Vatican who then sent their people to investigate.

She convinced the vatican people that it was "real" and so when she had another "episode" and said God said to kill ALL of a certain people in Africa, the priest in Africa along with the LRA slaughter everyone including women and children.

The priest in Africa in charge of the genocide was protected by the church and moved. Funny, I bet many have never even heard of this horrible act, because the church hides things like that.

Now, I would respect the Church if they would first come out and say they stole most of their beliefs and guidelines from the Egyptians. I stopped believing in fairy tales when I caught my parents placing presents under the Xmass tree

schwannomin: palin voter? are u serious? let it go already, time for new material.

Well, it works for his Priests. he needs to clean his own house up. What the hell does he know about condoms anyway???????????????????????????????????????????????

#1.26 dewintre200:

I'm not 100% sure I understood the tone of your comment. It sounds like you're saying liberals would ideally sponsor state paternalism that protects its citizens from themselves at the exclusion of a church who should be seen as the de facto personal advisor. Or something like that.

I think the issue of personal responsibility is central. And I think you're correct to look at divisions between the West and sub-saharan Africa. But I'm not sure the cultural divisions are as much at fault as the political ones.

The West has controlled the spread of HIV/AIDS through education. The state has a role to educate, but does not directly dispense sexual imperatives. Unprotected sex isn't stopped dead, but it is diminished by changing enough attitudes and informing the culture toward greater personal responsibility.

Those who practice safe sex act as buffers against those who don't, effectively obstructing the spread of disease. In this capacity, those who elect to forego personal responsibility are still protected to an extent by those who do take responsibility for their actions.

The idea that sub-saharan Africans are morally deficient and cannot control their base instincts is just plain chauvinistic. Lack of education is at the heart of the problem. African culture is just as potentially receptive to the positive influence of education as the West was. The agent, whether it is the state or the church, who undertakes the mission of education is irrelevent, as long as education is introduced.

Going back to personal responsibility on the individual level: It's utopian to believe that young people will consistently make responsible decisions. You want to do everything you can to keep them alive until they reach a maturity level at which good decisions will more naturally occur to them.

In an effort to make automobiles safer, seat belts became standard, then air-bags. No one told people to stop driving. Seat belts didn't stop crashes, but they reduced the number of deaths.

Obviously, there are examples where seat belts and air bags failed or failed to prevent harm. But these limitations and malfunctions don't invalidate the argument for seat belts and air bags. No harm came to society by implementing car safety devices. When you weigh something that can potentially do some good while conversely doing no harm, you must decide in favor of it.

To those quick to point out that condoms tear: Yes they do. But only occasionally. The occasional tear does not guarantee a person is going to be infected or impregnated that time. The odds of getting pregnant or being infected with a disease during any ONE sexual experience are pretty low.

Risk of disease and pregnancy is compounded by repeated sexual activity. The systematic use of condoms reduces the overall risks, even in the event one occasionally fails. This is no argument to invalidate condoms as a viable protection against STD's and pregnancy, any more than the occasional failure of an air bag is an argument against safe cars.

What's wrong with this man? Isn't he 'pro' life? Spreading AIDS by not allowing condom use, is death for the people who are followers of the Church. The Pope and his followers are no more than a cult mind set. His approach is disgusting and certainly NOT Godly.

How fortunate that "the myth of my [Pope Benedict's] solitude makes me laugh." It's an effective tool of hardly laughable denial.

Palin voter?

Actually, no, I voted 3rd party. I don't agree with neoconservatives. Your assumptions schwannomin are incorrect, as probably a great many axioms you live by.

To Steech, thank you for a balanced opinion. You may find you are wasting your good efforts on Newsvine however. :)

My position is simply that Africa is a continent that has never once in recorded history had its **** together, and its both arrogant and presumptious to think we're going to "save" them. The Pope is wrong and the liberals are wrong too. Interventionism is a fantastic money hole. Africa WILL suck down every dollar we have to give, grow their problem, and NEED more. HIV is no differently from poverty, warlordism, famine and every other ill in Africa. Until they are willing to fight and die to protect the liberty of their neighbors in such sufficient proportion that stable governance can take hold, they will not be educated, they will remain just as they have been since the dawn of man - tribalism plus AK-47s. I am totally pessimistic about their prospects. Unless you are the British of last century, roll in there and literally beat the "way" into these people, they are going to reject everything you try to tell them as some kind of white man's trick to keep them from having sex. Its quite the conundrum. Money will not fix this problem.

Abstinence is such a joke. Human nature will never change, the sooner this can be accepted the sooner we can try resolutions that are actually effective.

perry j, great job of spouting the churches revisionist history of what the history channel called "hitlers pope". Most of what you spouted is somewhat true.....right up until the SS where at the gates of Vatican City threatening to come in. That's when Pius 7 decided that the vatican treasury and vatican artifacts where worth more that the lives of the Jews. Silence ensued in order to keep Himler's gestapo from looting the vatican treasury.

Don't cry, there are PLENTY of Popes in hell to keep Pius VII company. He's among friends.

The catholic church, the richest and most corrupt organization in the world!

Now, I would respect the Church if they would first come out and say they stole most of their beliefs and guidelines from the Egyptians. I stopped believing in fairy tales when I caught my parents placing presents under the Xmass tree

Christianity is actually a hybridization of Mithraism and Judaism. This mostly thanks to the Roman emperor Constantine, and a few others. Mithras was also a Son of God, born of a virgin, died, ressurected, ascended to Heaven. Fought evil in Hell, promises a day of Judgement and End Time. Its adherents practiced baptism and Communion, and celebrated his birth on Dec 25th. The similarities between it and the emerging Christian cult were enough that various Roman emperors were able to combine the two, outlaw pagan religions. Even the worship of Christ on Sun-day ( as opposed to the jewish Saturday ) came from Mithraism and its worship of the Sun God.

If anyone has the intellectual stamina to actually learn something, read this:

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

Their are other myths; however, as the Devil is wise and subtle. The difference is perhaps that one we have secular support for Christ and his actions. The support for miracles was not uncommon. It is uncommon for people against a religious to acknowledge and support the ocurrence of miracles.

One should also note that his Apostles were matryed because of their eye witness accounts. They were not matryed because of a story. They were matryed based upon what they saw.

One shouldn't base their belief on the Da Vinci Code. Can we be serious?

A glance at Mithraism demonstrates how different from Christianity the pagan mystery religions were. Mithras was originally a Persian god depicted as a bucolic deity who watched over cattle. Mithraism was not introduced to the West and the Mediterranean world until the first century at the earliest, where it eventually attracted Roman soldiers. Contemporaneous with Christianity, this second form of Mithraism was for men only.

By the time Mithraism became popular in the Roman Empire it had changed from a public religion for the many to a mystery religion meant for the elite. It took on a Greco-Roman quality and absorbed elements of astrology and Platonic philosophy. Although scholars distinguish between the earlier Persian Mithraism and the later Roman Mithraism, most popular works straining to connect Mithras to Jesus do not. This failure to distinguish between the two forms of Mithraism has often resulted in the assumption that Roman Mithraic beliefs also existed in the earlier, pre-Christian form. But the Mithraic beliefs and practices that Christianity is accused of "stealing" did not come into vogue until the end of the first century, far too late to shape the Gospels and their depiction of Jesus. David Ulansey, author of The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries, writes:

The earliest physical remains of the cult date from around the end of the first century A.D., and Mithraism reached its height of popularity in the third century. In addition to soldiers, the cult’s membership included significant numbers of bureaucrats and merchants. Women were excluded. Mithraism declined with the rise to power of Christianity until the beginning of the fifth century, when Christianity became strong enough to exterminate by force rival religions such as Mithraism. ("The Cosmic Mysteries of Mithras," at www.well.com/user/davidu/mithras.html)

The Roman Mithras is "born" from a rock; he is called "the rock-born god." He was commonly depicted as naked, wearing a cap and holding a torch and a dagger. In the Persian legends, he was born of a virgin mother, Anahita (once worshiped as a fertility goddess), who swam in Lake Hamun in the Persian province of Sistan, where Zoroaster/Zarathustra had left sperm four hundred years earlier. The central feat of Mithras’s life on earth was the capture and killing of a stolen bull at the command of the god Apollo, symbolizing the annual renewal of life in spring.

Mithraism did not originally have a concept of a god who died and was then resurrected. Despite the claims made in The Da Vinci Code, there is no ancient account of Mithras dying, being buried "in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days." That assertion is taken (either directly or from a second-generation source) from The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors, where Graves wrote, without documentation, that several pagan deities (including "Mithras the Mediator" of Persia) rose from the dead after three days’ burial. But E. O. James, professor of history and philosophy of religion at the University of London, noted that "in contrast to the other Graeco-Oriental Mystery divinities, the Persian saviour-god did not himself pass through death to life."

Is it any wonder the man has to ride around in a bullet-proof box?

There should be a law banning him from sticking his nose out of the Vatican and into people's business.

How does the Catholic church profit from selling ignorance? I just don't get it!

Get a CLUE!!

Perhaps there are distinctions to be made PerryJ, but you haven't accounted for the other things Christians have borrowed, like Sun-day, communion, Dec 25th. I'd have less difficulty accepting the authenticity of Christianity if I thought there existed a God in the first place, but since I only have A) what men say, and B) what men have written to go on, its pretty damn hard to square up what appear to be fairy tales against other competing religions. Obviously Christianity, Islam and Hinduism cannot all be correct. I'm hedging a bet that none of them are. My belief is that if there is a God, he can be found, and if he can't be found, then its not prerogative or responsibility to know, because after all, what is he doing, hiding? If I stand before God on Judgement Day, condemned, I'll have to conclude that God wasn't moral after all, since all I had to go on was crap, contradiction, and absence of evidence. Faith is an intellectual device designed by medieval clergy to postpone logical analysis and keep the peasantry from asking too many smart-ass questions.

The fact is, if you are expecting a condom to keep you from getting AIDS or getting pregnant, is like expecting a rain coat to keep you 100% completely dry all over, it won't. Nor will a condom keep you 100% safe, whether you have sex 1 time or 100's of times/year, its just a matter of time before you get the virus. Yet the prevailing message is, condoms = safe sex. BULL $#!*.

Whats my solution? I don't have one, but on the other hand I don't give people a false sense of security by spreading the safe sex myth either.

Their are other myths; however, as the Devil is wise and subtle.

This yet another intellectual device, designed to bed down a debate. History and facts? Lies of the Devil. The Church has had 1675 years to hone this run-around to perfection.

I normally avoid engaging the Catholic Church what with having a couple of Catholic girl friends over the years, but since this stupidity costs lives, here goes. It's fine to say that abstinence should be taught, but the reality is couples are going to have sex outside of marriage and there are gay men. Both are sins but if a simple precaution can result in lives being saved why wouldn't we want that to happen? If you (as in the Pope) don't approve fine, but why speak out when what you're saying will cost lives?Brian, would the term "safer sex" make you happy? A little protection is better than no protection.

Stop fcking random people!  Yes, educate them.  Tell them to get married to someone of the opposite sex who is not infected, stay married, and only have sex with that person.  This is very simple education and outside of abstinence, it is the only way throughout history that has been proven to work.  If we just tell them that then we have educated them.  If they decide on their own to accept that education and act on it, they will see results.  EVERYONE has freedom of choice.  Don't treat Africans like they are naturally stupid and can't make choices for themselves.  Whether you think it's a moral issue, or a religious issue, or whatever, it's just plain common sense.

How many rapists, pedeophilies, or incest perps know what the term 'abstinence' means...????

This guy is so out of it --I am reminded of the 9 year old pregnant girl in South America---the perp got off -her step father- and she and her mother are being cast out of the church....!

Dewintre200

One philosophically one has to believe in a God. If you do not believe in God and only rely on pure darwinism than you are no more than a very advanced chemical glob of tissue. Your reactions would be based upon stimulus and response. There would be no true creativy. Creation would truly only be a very complex response to a stimuli.

Truly if one looks at physics one can only conclude that their is a God. Without God our physical laws break down. Without a God giving us a soul we are just a chemically engineered robot.

perry J, secular historians?......doesn't that mean history books written by the church? of course the church would never embellish to make themselves look better. No, not a chance of that. That's like the fox guarding the hen house. You religious zealots scare the hell out of me with your revisionist history. The Inquisition, the crusades, Galileo, what? are you going to tell me none of that happened. What's next? You going to tell me that King David was a nice guy that didn't kill ALL the men (including male children) of any town he conquered or that he had an affair with a married woman (Solomans mother)then had her husband killed?

As a recovering Catholic, I find myself, again, shaking my head in disbelief. I agree with the general feeling that someone who is obviously out of touch with the world should not make such ..well, stupid comments. The reality of the situation is that people (adults and kids) have unprotected sex constantly, no matter what color, educational background or economic status of the participants. Education and resources to prevent the spread of AIDS is about the best possible way to at least curtail the spread of it. No solution is going to yield an absolute end to AIDS but burying your head in the sand and pretending that the world's population is going to "Just say No" to unprotected sex is a death sentence.

Bonepony (#1.65), "Secular" means not pertaining to the church. You meant to write "non-secular."

#1.51, Dewintre:

Thanks for reading the whole thing!

I think I understand you better now and see that you had in mind a much greater malaise than just HIV/AIDS when you made your comments about Africa's future hope.

I'm not sure I'm any more optimistic than you are on the matter. If I was to try to speculate on what it would take to turn things around in Africa, I'm sure it'd rapidly degenerate into a discourse on multi-national corporations, the global market, and the effects of empire. Too much for this light fare about condoms, I guess.

Still, I'm appreciative that you read my point about condoms at least not being BAD. From some of your other comments, I can at least tell you aren't on the side of the religious proponents of the Pope's position. It's very nice to talk on Newsvine and not JUST argue with people.

Dewintre-- what Steech wrote when he said:

The idea that sub-saharan Africans are morally deficient and cannot control their base instincts is just plain chauvinistic. Lack of education is at the heart of the problem. African culture is just as potentially receptive to the positive influence of education as the West was.

was exactly the point that I was making in reference to your comment at #1.26.

He's living in ancient Rome!!! Does he think his pointy hat would work better at stopping HIV transmission??

Your disrespect is a sign of your apparent ignorance. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and respect. I am not Catholic but I am a Christian and I do agree that condoms are not the answer, the Pope is right in this matter, we need to teach our children to wait until they are married to have sex. The Bible is clear on this matter and I trust Jesus judgement more than anyone else. If we do not stand for something we will fall for anything! Just look at the young people today, children are running the homes instead of the parents, children are more disrespectful & rude than they ever have been and it stems from parents not instilling morale values in them. I do not believe in child abuse but I also know there is a lot of parent abuse out there and it is time the government stopped dictating how to raise our children and let parents do what they should do - parent their children.

I am glad the Pope took a stand even though it is not popular - doing the right thing usually is not popular!

Hey Pope - you no play-a the game, you no make-a the rules!

An interesting side line that few people caught was that the Pope caved in to "ultraconservatives" (NAZIs?) that want to become to revisionists erasing the existence of the Holocaust. Shows one how much can be accomplished once you are no longer constrained by the facts.

One philosophically one has to believe in a God.

Why? Is that why most philosophy professors are atheist, or minimally uncommitted? This was my minor in college so I'm interested in your opinion.

If you do not believe in God and only rely on pure darwinism than you are no more than a very advanced chemical glob of tissue.

I do not dispute that the sum of my parts is larger than the whole. But that is more or less correct. I don't weight my position with sentiments regarding what it would be nice to believe. Have you ever seen a soul? Neither have I.

Your reactions would be based upon stimulus and response. There would be no true creativy. Creation would truly only be a very complex response to a stimuli.

That sounds reasonable. I don't believe in uncaused events, and that includes whatever weighted mental process we all go through to arrive at an idea. The apparent randomosity of the universe around us is merely a result of our inability to comprehend or know all the variables. So yes, I think creativity and everything else is subject to the natural principle of cause and effect.

Truly if one looks at physics one can only conclude that their is a God. Without God our physical laws break down. Without a God giving us a soul we are just a chemically engineered robot.

I will say this.

If you can accept cause and effect to be inviolable, meaning that every event is the product of some pre-existing condition that manifests the event in question, then you may very well conclude that the universe is infinitely old simply on the basis of our observation that things are indeed in motion. An infinitely old universe may well give rise to some thing that resembles God. Thats not my beef. My issue is with men who presume to know something for fact that you cannot learn yourself through observation - that God exists and that He demands x. All this, and especially the Catholic Church, to my mind are a self-perpetuating power structure that has only a superficial relationship to the supernatural.

what good are catholic followers of the pope if many of them are infected with a deadly virus that can be transmitted to their children?

I've never understood why people can so ignorantly listen to such hyppocrisy, whether it's coming from the Pope or our Federal gov't.

#1.72, Concerned citizen writes: "I am not Catholic but I am a Christian and I do agree that condoms are not the answer, the Pope is right in this matter, we need to teach our children to wait until they are married to have sex. The Bible is clear on this matter and I trust Jesus judgement more than anyone else. If we do not stand for something we will fall for anything!"

A lot of people have made the comment (myself included) that the abstinence-only view is utopian. The realm of Jesus and the Pope is one of pure ideals. One may believe those ideals may be realized one day, but surely must concede in the meantime that they have not yet been realized.

I think we're so polarized in this country because of our civic training in the sanctity of separation of church and state. I hear a lot of rhetoric out there, like concerned citizen's, that the separation should be dissolved. Their personal philosophy/belief/faith/whatever is so strong they cannot understand how their dreams can possibly fail to materialize.

History alone is an ample demonstration to the perils of theocracy. But all history and philosophy aside, this example of papal recalcitrance is argument enough to support separation of spiritual and secular life. The Catholic church can't reconcile the discrepancies between it's ideal vision and the realities of human behavior.

I don't think the Pope should hand out condoms if he feels so strongly. He shouldn't even say it's okay if he doesn't think it is okay. But, clearly, the Pope stands in the way of basic healthcare on this issue. If his beliefs prevent him from a permissive stance, he should at least get out of the way and stop interfering with the good and just work of governments and aid agencies.

The rest of you, with reasons very dear to you, should also concede that your prayers haven't changed the world yet. They might; keep praying. But in your attempts to do good, please don't do harm.

This article makes me sick! I'm appalled that The Pope speaks for anyone of Catholic faith including myself. He is disillusioned by the facts- people are gonna do whatever they want and he has NO control over it! I bet his list of sins would completely out shadow any of ours. He's being unrealistic and basically telling people to NOT use condoms and sentencing them to death.

I am not a Catholic, the novel idea of not behaving in a manner that is dangerous to both yourself and others is crazy indeed. As crazy as his ideas are I am betting that controlling oneself and knowing with whom one is having intimate relationships with would possibly lead to a rather drastic reduction in both unwanted pregnancy and the spread of disease. Condoms have been available for some time now as has the education programs here, as far as I know we still have a significant number of single mothers and STD's. The idea that human beings cannot control themselves is a bit condescending unless one is speaking from experience.

This is absolutely the stupidest thing the Pope has ever said. Oh sexual abstinence! Tell that to the rapists who rape thousands of women and children a year.

Darkwood,

That is an outright lie!

How Pius XII Protected Jews

However, your source of this information is biased. Catholic.com...c'mon, really?

But I'll play along...first, this quote:

Thousands of Jews—the figures run from 4,000 to 7,000—were hidden, fed, clothed, and bedded in the 180 known places of refuge in Vatican City, churches and basilicas

That figure, rounded off to 6,000, multiplied by 1,000, represents the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. A drop in the bucket for the Catholic church.

Next is this:

In June,1944, Pius XII sent a telegram to Admiral Miklos Horthy, the ruler of Hungary, and was able to halt the planned deportation of 800,000 Jews from that country.

However, by June 27, 1944, over 476,000 had been deported! http://www.aish.com/holocaust/headlines/he71n44.htm

Further undermining the figures of Catholic.com is this quote from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum:

Of approximately 825,000 Jews living in Hungary in 1941, about 63,000 died or were killed prior to the German occupation of March 1944. Under German occupation, just over 500,000 died from maltreatment or were murdered. Some 255,000 Jews, less than one-third of those who had resided within enlarged Hungary in March 1944, survived the Holocaust. About 190,000 of these were residents of Hungary in its 1920 borders.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005458

So how did the Pope managed to "save" 800,000 Jews in Hungary if there were 825,000 to start with and over 500,000 were killed under German occupation?

This is the Catholic church, tooting it's own horn and grossly exaggerating it's influence on the Holocaust. Sixty-five years ago they overstated their saving of lives...fast forward to today, and their archaic policies are costing the lives of millions in Africa and elsewhere. Until the Catholic church gets out of the Dark Ages and realizes that times have changed they will continue to do more harm than good...

The old man is getting senile! This is preposterous!

It doesn't promote against STD's by having unprotected sex and spewing out dozens of babies as the old Catholic doctrine might teach. Thankfully, most modern day priests are not as narrow minded as the Pope. Many Catholic families nowadays don't have a truck load of kids like the Kennedy's. It isn't wise to have more children than you can take care of, but tell that to the Duggar family who are Baptist. Mindless breeding makes me ill.

I'll yield to your authority Tyler. I apologize if my true opinion hit a nerve.

Religious and Government leaders should STOP practicing medicine. That is what DOCTORS/SCIENTIST are for.

Darkwood- in response to you comment "Catholics believe that the pope is infallible", I am a Catholic and I DO NOT need you to speak for me- PERIOD! I believe- and I speak for me only- that the Pope is a DISGRACE to any teachings of the Bible. I hope that sort of clears things up for you with at least this catholic. As far as I'm concerned he belongs right along side with others in the clergy who believe that its okay to abuse children, with fundamentalists who believe its okay to force young children to marry grown men or young cousins, etc. I beleive that the Pope needs to get with the program and be part of the solution, because there are many people in this world who are easily lead and manipulated into thinking this man is infallable. He is causing a rift between a persons faith/beliefs and human nature in general. He should not impose upon the average person the same vows of celibacy that he has taken. He needs to stress the right/responsible thing to do, which at the very least is use a condom and being responsible then somehow incorporate the importance of getting tested. The problem with condoning condom usage is he would also have to condone other forms of birth control. The last person in the universe who should be giving advice in regards to sex is the Pope. Why would any intelligent person is going to live their life they way they choose going to follow him, or any religion word for word? Follow 10 Commandments, do whats right-simple as that. Right?

Not one person willing to admit just how INEFFECTIVE condoms are? If you expect condoms to stop the spread of AIDS, you probably think congress is a good steward of our tax money too, not wasting a dime on anything dumb.

Brian, read the second part of #1.48.

What's more ineffective, asking people to be celibate or condoms? People aren't just gonna stop doing it are they? Do you have a better suggestion? Finding a CURE for AIDS would be wonderful, but everyone knows there is more money in finding a cure than having the cure, which is probably why it will take even longer for there to be a vaccine available. Condoms are a start and the only thing I can think of that is realistic. With the exception of people who were raped or born and infected with AIDS, it seems that millions of people were irresponsible by being so promiscuous in the first place. To suggest condom usage to a person like this, who seems to have no conscious and no concern with the possible consequences of their actions, is like asking them to not do it in the first place. People need to responsible and educated from the get go. This seems to only exist in a non-existant perfect world though.

If the Catholic Church supported the ruin of AIDS forever, they would support condoms!! Along with all of the education of sex, condoms do help stop AIDS!! The reason why AIDS is growing right here in our own country is that the church (not only Catholic) promotes only abstinance!!
Because they will not promote what will really help fight AIDS, they show the world their ignorance of modern times!!
God Help US!!!

It's unfortunate that people link the statement "condoms are not the answer" to have all the unprotected sex you want. The Pope preaches abstinence. He's right, condoms are not the answer, education is. People need to be educated on the subject so they can change their ways. Otherwise, condoms or not, the problem will continue.

Can this guy be any more out of touch with reality? People are going to have sex -- gay, straight, whatever. It's just going to happen.

I wonder how many million people the Catholic Church has indirectly killed by their Dark Ages moral code and their outright lies?

It's easy to say that you should not have sex with random people and you should marry and only have sex with someone who is not infected. However... some places (like a lot of areas in 3rd world countries or regions) don't really have a place that you can easily go to be tested. Yes, condoms are not 100% effective in preventing pregnancy or disease. However, they are darn close to it. Since people are going to have sex, and I'm sure most of us admit that the reality is that they will have sex, isn't it better that they have a level or protection, no matter how effective it may be? Nobody is saying, "here, just wear this and you'll be safe." They say that this will help make you MORE safe.

It's like sending a soldier off to battle without armor. Yes, the armor does not make the soldier 100% safe, but it makes him/her safer. It increases the risk of survival. Should the armor be the only thing that is used? Of course not! But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be used. And telling them that the armor isn't 100% effective, so it shouldn't be used is just plain irresponsible!

Spot on cjn-718250! They'll continue to manipulate and keep people ignorant in order to control them. They preach "if you listen to us, and give us money you'll get into heaven" BS. The Pope needs to get with the program. Dare I ask- How many women/hookers or, God frbid, children has the Pope had his way with? I dare and I ask. I'm sure I'm not the first to wonder.

DG - W

I post Catholic.com because it was handy. Would you like me to quote Rabbi's, Golda Meier, Albert Einstien or perhaps even the New York Times. So when the Pope was named a "Righteous Gentile" the highest award for a non-Jew that was a lie. When Albert Einstein stated the Catholic Church was the only group to stand up to Hitler that was a lie. Try and re-write history. I have read both sources and the sources that denigrate Pope Pius have been proven wrong. They change the dates on photographs and even have created forgeries.

Twoods,

Perhaps you need to refresh yourself concerning what Papal Infallibility is and what it isn't. Papal Infalliblity does not mean the man is impecable. It means that he will not ex-cathedra teach an error. If you are going state you are Catholic you should know what you are talking about. This is how so many people on this site are ignorant of what Catholcism means.

You certainly showed me! Is Ex-Cathedra teach an error proper Enfglish, cause apparently I just don't seem to get it. Funny you picked me to preach to and yet you still have taught me nothing. You keep right along buying the Pope's BS and continue to be happy being free of AIDS. I raised Catholic, the last time I attended church because I "chose" to, never. I don't need a righteous hypocrit giving me advice. I'm sure you take pride in attempting to be an insufferable know-it-all, but, sorry but I'm not impressed.

I did fail to mention in time that i didnt pay much attention in church- feel vindicated yet PerryJ? All your preaching and yet you have taught me and everyone else here nothing.

"The Pope smokes Dope, God gave him the grass.

The Pope smokes Dope, he likes to smoke in mass."

David Peel and The lower East Side

Religion=The bane of mankind.

I can prove his point.....I am abstinent and I do not have AIDS.

the catholic church is living in the 18th century. "right wing christians' who favor this idea are living in the 17th century. people have sex, they always have, they always will. you are not going to get them to stop. this is why we have how many BILLIONs of people on this planet?

if you choose to not have sex like GoZo, who i respect, but would never live like, that's great. but the other 2-3 billion+ people on earth ARE going to have sex, enjoy it, do it has much as possible and if they are unlucky get AIDS.

so to tell people to NOT use condoms, is just really really silly.

May I clarify something here - celibacy (not extramarital abstinence) is the only way to prevent the SEXUAL transmission of HIV. There are plenty of other ways that HIV can be transmitted. Even in a "traditional" marriage, one partner can be infected as a result of the indiscretion of their mate.

Let's get real: this is a disease. It is not a religeous issue, and it isn't God punishing immoral people. If God was punishing sinners, we would all be lined up at the free clinic, with Pope Benedict at the front of the line. Why don't we attack this disease like we do all the others? Let's use all of the tools we have available. Let's take advantage of all we have learned. Let's stop attacking each other and start attacking the real problem - this insideous disease.

If people didn't have sex until they were married, all venereal disease would disappear. And thats a fact. Its just that most people are unwilling to modify their sexual habits, and on this basis abstinance seems extraordinarily unrealistic. Venereal disease is a statistical problem, and restrictive sexual mores introduce barriers to transmission. Loose sexual mores on the other hand, ensure there is a constant pool of carriers, keeping these germs alive and spreading. What we need to be looking at, if we're serious and pragmatic, are ways to isolate the disease and ensure it doesn't get transmitted. But believe me, making a public database of carriers will go over like a turd in the punch bowl.

Let's get real: this is a disease. It is not a religeous issue, and it isn't God punishing immoral people.

You are right and wrong, I think. It is a disease, it is not a religious issue, but it has everything to do with risk behaviors that, according to at least Christianity and Judaism, are sinful. God is not punishing us, it just kinda works out that way. ;)

For the record I don't believe sex is sinful. Its just one of life's great ironies that the religious nuts would be "gifted" with a disease that tracks with their worldview.

Facts above hysteria people, DC yes DC has a HIGHER rate per capita of HIV positive people than West AFRICA and condoms are abundant and free in public bathrooms, clinics etc in DC so there is something to what he says condoms are NOT the end all and be all in the fight against AIDS.

Facts? You're distorting them!

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2009/3/16/16284/4951

Reading this, the HIV/AIDS infection rate in D.C. is 3%. The same statistic in Sub-Saharan Africa is 6.15%. Southern Africa? In excess of 15%!

Face it. The Pope is wrong. Condoms will do a better job against AIDS than his old, tired method...which is to do nothing except abstain. If people try to cure AIDS that way they will also cure birth as well. The Catholic church and it's ridiculous stand against birth control might have been OK during the Spanish Inquisition but it's woefully out of date in a world with over 6.5 billion people...

A call to action for all Catholics. Pope Benedict, during his flight to AIDS-torn Africa, commented that condoms do not prevent AIDS and that they do more harm than good in preventing the spread of AIDS. This genius actually said this on his way to AFRICA - where AIDS is wiping out entire villages of people! This is contrary to everything medicine and science, and the WHO (World Health Organization) teaches about AIDS and HIV prevention. In protest of Dope Benedict's stupidity, I'm calling on all Catholics to deposit condoms in the collection basket at Easter Mass this year. Pass this on to all your Catholic friends. Let's start a movement! CONDOMS IN THE COLLECTION BASKET THIS EASTER SUNDAY!

If people try to cure AIDS that way they will also cure birth as well.

Accidental births anyways. As antiquated and out of touch as the Pope seems, he's only incorrect insomuch as the people are unwilling to follow his advice. He knows that, and you know it too. Maybe thats why they think Pope is secretly an evil-doer - because everyone knows people aren't going to keep their zippers up until marriage, or within marriage.

Benedict once again proves the stupitity that seems to run rampant in the Catholic church. Maybe before he starts telling the world what will and wont work in the fight against AIDS he should try to address the issues in his own church such as the constant stream of molested young boys coming out of their church and the fact that one of their newest members doesn't even beleive that the holocost even happened. And what about the fact that 3/4 of the poorest kids born in America and Mexico are born to Catholic parents because they do not practice using condoms instead opting for NO birth control at all and all the while spreading AIDS and overpopulating our planet. Maybe MR. Benedict should open his eyes and see what is really happening in the world right now!

David Peel and The lower East Side

Ah yes...an off the wall band from way back when! Classics like Here Comes A Cop and Up Against The Wall...brings back memories...

I post Catholic.com because it was handy. Would you like me to quote Rabbi's, Golda Meier, Albert Einstien or perhaps even the New York Times

It might help if you did. As for my "rewriting history", it's easy to claim I'm doing something you don't like, but you provide zero evidence to the contrary. Meanwhile, you're saying the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum has reason to distort the facts, while not proving your point at all. Your bleating about how heroic the Pope was in WWII is just that, bleating, until you provide evidence to the contrary. Maybe the "facts" you're reading are wrong...ever think of that?

The Catholic Church's idea of the "Perfect Woman" is a Mother who is also a Virgin. Kind of hard to live up to that.

Talk about beliefs not being rooted in reality... next he'll be telling us, that some imaginary red-guy with a tail and scary looking horns, wants to poke each and every one of us in the butt with a pichfork for the rest of eternity.... oh, wait. D'oh.

I always chuckle at the losers that want to attack someone for stating the truth. Don't do the crime if you cant do the time. Condoms break, make sex lame and pointless, and use chemicals and plastics to achieve their goal.

Not really sure why I should have to buy your condoms, pay for your abortions out of my tax dollars and smile about it. Then you get aids and expect me to pay for the treatment and research to cure it.

I am willing to buy or help build a big gas chamber like Hitler used. Heck you get Aids your as good as dead so why delay it? Euthenaidsya is the way to stop this disease. Get'r done I say. And I'll even be willing to triple my tax bracket to implement the plan. I might even be willing to pay 50% because 22 million is alot of cleanup.

Besides the are just Africans not like its a big loss.

"4thepeople: I always chuckle at the losers that want to attack someone for stating the truth. Don't do the crime if you cant do the time. Condoms break, make sex lame and pointless, and use chemicals and plastics to achieve their goal. Not really sure why I should have to buy your condoms, pay for your abortions out of my tax dollars and smile about it. Then you get aids and expect me to pay for the treatment and research to cure it. am willing to buy or help build a big gas chamber like Hitler used. Heck you get Aids your as good as dead so why delay it? Euthenaidsya is the way to stop this disease. Get'r done I say. And I'll even be willing to triple my tax bracket to implement the plan. I might even be willing to pay 50% because 22 million is alot of cleanup.Besides the are just Africans not like its a big loss."

Ignorance at its worse..unbelievable....well not really

are you an idiot? read the article again. Hes not saying to have sex if you are infected with HIV. Do you know what abstinence means? condoms make people have sex, and guess what genius, they break. instead of just hiding a problem with a thin layer of rubber you should try to think of deleting the problem at the core and that is stopping infected people from having sex. And you sound like you have trouble keeping your legs closed.

Anniek

Pay no attention to Bernie - too uptight about correct punctuation. I'm guessing English is not your primary language? I think your message was right on and funny. Regarding the Pope, it's just dogma and more dogma.

Thanks Jim and your right I'm Cherokee and that is my primary language not English and guess what the cath. tought school on the rez. they did not care if we learned a thing.

Hey Bernie, You should remove that stick from your rectal orifice and stop acting like a 5/6 grader by trying to show your superior knowledge. Learn some manners, Does belittling people make you feel better about yourself? YOUR the class act here.

I agree with you Anniek. The Pope isn't a doctor and clearly lives in a world of make believe. Bernie you're a jerk, nice of you to comment on the topic at hand because what you had to say was really worth reading. I hope the sarcasm is easily interpreted.

More for Bernie: you used the ampersand (&) far too often for someone who wants to criticize another's spelling and punctuation. It only takes two more characters to spell the word "and". An ampersand is a symbol which is not intended for repetitive use.

Your right to criticize another's punctuation is hereby revoked.

How about making the Church pay for all the AIDS medicine in Africa, since they tell people to not use the least expensive, more sure-fire prevention against AIDS?

Old man in a Dress? ZaZa? (Lets see how many get that?)

Sex is bad unless you are producing a little tither.

adguy

Better yet, what does an 80+ year old virgin know about sex and rubbers?

Your smoking crack if you think he's a eighty year old virgin

Darkwood, that is classic!! Little tither...classic!

Roy

The Catholics aren't the only ones who have a fear of sex and women. After all it is the bible that teaches Eve got us into the sin and guilt game because she liked apples. Poor, dumb Adam went along with it so men have to be protected from their wiles.

For claiming to be celibate these guys sure seem to think they know alot about sex. If I wasn't a retired Catholic, I still wouldn't pay any attention to them.

What is it with these male-dominated Abrahamic religions and their belief that sex is sinful and dirty? In Wicca, sex is sacred. On Beltain, it's a sacrament.

Dear Indigo Halo, the idea that sex is sinful is NOT found in Judaism. Sex (between husband and wife) is sacred, is a gift of God, and is to be enjoyed and celebrated. In fact, if you have sexual relations with your spouse on the Sabbath, it is a mitzvah (the fulfillment of a commandment).

Apparently the anti-sexuality aspects of Christianity derived partly from the Docetists, who believed that Jesus was divine and not human at all--God in an illusory human form--and also from the wish on the part of early Christian leaders to demonstrate that Christians were different from "pagans" and also from Greeks and Romans (worshippers of a pantheon of gods), Egyptians, etc. Some were also inspired by Paul, who thought that celibacy and virginity were higher states than married life (and Paul also vigorously combatted any kind of sexual license as being sinful, even between consenting adults). And then the "Fathers"--the early writers, such as Augustine, Irenaeus, Jerome, etc., were anti-sex and also opposed allowingwomen a role in Church leadership. Much has been written by many scholars about all this, but I did want to point out that all of the "Abrahamic" faiths are not identical in this respect.

It's made of green cheese.

Not sure but I bet it looks like a little boy's butt.

Yeah, and the Nazi-Pope probably thinks the world is flat too.

I'm Catholic but I don't necessarily agree with most of what is practiced. That's how. I've chosen to honor the good lord through my own terms and way of thinking but that does not mean that I will turn my back on religion either. There are many things in this world that we don't agree on and this happens to be one of them. There are, however, many ways to represent your opinions. Don't generalize. Not all Catholics are the same. Stop the bandwagon and the blasphemous comments. Seriously, its getting old. It's just another way for people to spew out hatred. If you don't agree with something, that's fine but don't go saying things like 'the church is made of pedofiles.' I'm damn sure the Catholic church isn't the only church with such a problem.

If you don't agree with most of what is practiced, what makes you a Catholic other than the historical accident that you were born one (and baptised one without your consent)?

The biggest problem here is that only those within the Catholic church have any say in the Catholic church. They don't care what I have to say about their behavior.

But American and European Catholics provide a huge amount of money to these people. If you are a Catholic, you have an OBLIGATION to tell them when they are being self-serving and greedy. Take your money away until they listen to you. Just because they have the funny hats, does not mean that you should follow them into evil. Speak up!

they follow them For the same reason that "christians" follow the likes of billy graham etc. , and these people below...because they believe in something that fills their hollow lives with purpose, that they know how we all should live and worship or not worship. they know and they are righteous in their beliefs. and if you don't believe in their version of heaven on earth...they will kill you.

Shelley Hitz, OH
Rebecca Klein, FL
David River, TN

CJ Hitz, OH
Jason Lowery, KS

Erm... i dunno... because those who suffer AIDS and die will go to heaven? That's the only reason i can think off really... It's pure idiocy, i know... Glad i'm an atheist...

Rudy: I'm with you. I'm pretty happy to be a Wiccan and not a Catholic. We don't have original sin (despite my best efforts to sin in completely original ways, har har!)

Most large organized religions promote this. Conversion through breeding. Some off shoots of different religions don't go with this idea, but the vast majority of religions either promote it.

Hey I'm all for Abstinence if one is Rresponsible, Mature and able live your life 100% in rotational thought. The trouble is we can't. Add on the way people think in respects to sex... is reason even possible? Look at Friday's news, woman in South Africa being "Correctivly Raped" for being Lesbian. There are also reports of the belief that Men Infected with AIDS having sex with a Virgin will cure them. There's a 6month old little girl that will never know what it's like not to have to deal with a Colostomy bag. This is friggin Ridiculous. They need to drag this idiot around the entire world and show him how bad it is out there.. For an individual who's supposed to bring enlightenment, he's not very enlightend. This pope needs to see the world and not live in his marble palace.

Hey Mark. The pope preaches abstinence yet Catholics are prolific breeders!

Toosano: where the hell did you get that statistic from? You haven't a clue what you are talking about.

They are breeders because abstinence is a lie that can't be followed and birth control is a sin in there eyes.How is that a statistic?

Mark..lack originality much? Couldn't wait for the prolific anti-Catholic sentiments to be added on this board. If any other faith...Judaism, Islam, Mormonism...was bashed like this, the hate police would be raining down on MSNBC. Whether one agrees or disagrees with a statement made by a religious leader, it is the people of that particular religion who are the Church and I hope (and believe) the Catholic church is moving in that direction. That being said, In our metropolitan area I work closely with Catholic Charities/food pantries. This organization is the most generous, hard working and hands on group toward the homeless and HIV infected people, without any preaching. I may disagree with some beliefs but I can't be hypocritical toward the men and woman..religious and lay people...who are on the front lines.

smp65: I think people have a problem with the Pope and the Catholic Church constantly trying to insert their dogma into other people's lives (with often very detrimental effects). Most people posting here are not venting their anger towards individual Catholics.

Bernie,

Catholics do not believe in birth control and usually have very large families beacuse of this. So, Toosano obviously knows what he is talking about and you are the clueless one.

Catholics do not believe in birth control and usually have very large families beacuse of this.

I guess if liberals had any comparable survivability trait, they might outbreed and replace the religious people. It would seem that evolution doesn't mean for humans to become so smart and conscientious that they give up on procreation. I'm going to guess that at the end of the day, the last white people in North America are going to be Mormons and Amish.

The Catholic church has always promoted having very large families. This is the reason behind condemnation of birth control. The easiest way to get new converts is to breed them. It's actually pretty simple logic. The crime is that they follow this logic no matter what the ill effects of it are on health and things like world conditions (which would be better off with a smaller human population not a bigger one).

The Catholic church has always promoted having very large families. This is the reason behind condemnation of birth control. The easiest way to get new converts is to breed them. It's actually pretty simple logic. The crime is that they follow this logic no matter what the ill effects of it are on health and things like world conditions (which would be better off with a smaller human population not a bigger one).

On the other hand, what latent use would a belief system be that drove your people to extinction? Its not like other stupid people aren't going to breed and inherit the world we talk so highly of. ;) Population control to "save the planet" is a moot discussion unless you're going to force it on everyone. As it stands, only the "responsible" people are doing themselves in. This will change the outcome for the planet.

Then we will kill ourselves through over population, at the current rate it is inevitable. I'd rather not contribute to it. I actually do wish we could sterilize people, but that would never go over in this country or most of them. Stupid will be what does us in, and then the stupid will turn to the smart begging for help. Kind of funny that is usually how it is, and equally sad.

Thanks Tic Tac, lol.

"Amen " to that...

My priest was actually more concerned about a unborn baby then the raped (by her father) 7 years old that was carrying it. He preached. I left.

Ditto David! 13 years of Catholic school, and then I grew up. After all that's come to light in recent years, what kind of a fool is this pope that he thinks anyone will listen to his ramblings. Talk about a "deficit of ethics," the Catholic Church wrote the book on it. More important for raped children to carry and deliver babies, than to think of the rest of their lives. More important to protect people like Cardinal Law, former Bishop of Boston, who protected all the pedophile priests in his diocese. He was given a big job in Rome. Rewarded for his bad deeds?!!!! Happy was the day I left the Church. Only wish I had never been exposed to the lies and evil.

If you're not aware of it, 80% of AID's transmission on the African Sub-Continent is between hetersexuals.

Bama... read up.. HIV is transmitted by the EXCHANGE of the VIRUS into the BLOOD. ANY ACT that results in a TEAR can cause an infection. For the most part sex in for many African males is a power thing. So Tearing is a normal occurance.

Now CLASS pencils down, the lession is over

Hey, look guys, we have here a perfect specimen of retardness. Not only does he think that the majority of us prefer the wrong hole, he also believes that picking the right one prevents the spreading of aids. Somebody give this man a brain please.

Grow up, Bama. AIDS is not a gay disease. People are just as likely to get it through straight sex. So, why aren't you telling people to change their lifestyles by abstaining, or being monogamous? Nope, you just have attack gays

Indeed Rudy, AND a condom, becuase whether he believes it or not, he's gonna need one. They reduce unwanted pregnancies and disease. Case closed.

OMG - Bama - please say you're a 3rd grader and that's why you don't know how AIDS is spread yet...

Yes Ron and aids is a death thing not a power thing.I Know how aids is transmitted.Class I do not think it is your pencils you have to keep down.

aids is a death thing not a power thing.I Know how aids is transmitted.Class I do not think it is not your pencils you have to down

What??? a 'death thing'?

Rudy... you need to read the article for understanding not for a opportunity to get up on a soap box and show you didn't.

"The article is about the Pope saying that Condoms are not the answer in AIDS fight........ and that the Vatican encourages sexual abstinence to fight the spread of the disease....."

With that said, The AIDS epidemic on the African Continent is spread by NORMAL Sexual intercourse, not by how you eloquently put it... preferring wrong hole...

Read 15.2 please.. I added an earlier comment that can give you some insight

I did read the article Ron. I replied in accordance to Bama's off-topic first post. "Picking the wrong hole" was an (admittedly bad) attempt to put his wording more eloquently.

See we all can live together......

I was wrong in understanding where you were coming from... sorry

...And BAMA.. for the male population in many of the African countries, Sex is a POWER thing. Women are something to be controled and held power over. Woman are still relegated to second/third class positions in society.... When Sex is an act of Power, Thats when the Tearing happens, and the transmission of the desease occurs.

Bama, you are truly clueless. And I bet a good Catholic.

Yes Toosano does Bama sound Catholic?Sounds Baptist to me.

The Pope, The Catholic Church, and Africa a match made in ____! Given the "power thing", at least the church and these macho men agree that women must be kept in second class positions (on thier knees?).

If the church ever wonders why Catholisism is not spreading (or holding its own) in the developed world look no further!

Ron, what makes you think the power thing is limited to Africa? Ever seen the news of all those Baptist and Catholic clergy and sex?

I live in Alabama. Believe me, there aren't many Catholics here. Bama-836911 is just a mouthpiece for the majority opinion down here. May his nonsense be an education for you guys. Trust me, there's no changing the mindset that's as anti-intellectual as it is theocratic. So don't even bother trying to reason with him. Don't try to shout him down either; he can shout louder and longer than you can.

I love my state, but feel its besieged by opponents of fact, ethics, and civility.

True ... off the direct topic at hand. In Africa, Power is held and promoted with the use of Violence, usually with an object that is long and shoots bullets. Violence and force are part of the Power issue... Since there's not way to promote Safe GUN FIRE, other than abstinence..... condoms can aid in another area....

Thank you steech. Love different views. Roll Tide

Well said, Steech.

Toosano I am from LA That is lower Alabama.

^^Right over his Head>>>>>>ZOOOMMMMMM. God help the helpless, because the Pope is misguiding them. Bama, may God always be with you.

I, too, am from the Great State of Alabama. Bless their hearts, there are some ignorant hillbillies down there. Education has never been the strong suit of the Alabama public school system. It does, however, produce mighty fine football players.

It just befuddles me how the Christians will tell you that "Jesus can solve all the problems of the world if you just pray and ask him for it." If these problems aren't solved, then it's "it just wasn't the Lord's will." Bullsh!t. "Just have faith and pray Brother."

Jesus ain't solving the AIDS crisis in Africa. As much as I hate to have this opinion, ain't nobody and no amount of money is going to help Africa out of this situation.

The Pope preaching abstinence as the cure for AIDS in Africa is like asking a teenager to listen to their parents. Some will, most won't.

We are all going to die. How one lives is more important than when or how one dies.

And keeping them healthy while they are alive is part of quality of life.

"And if a duck had a square butt it would poop bricks... "

Brad, i just spit my coffee all over my monitor. Too funny :D

Quality of life also includes how one lives his life.

And how do you define "quality of life", Perry? Would loyalty to your partner rather than "shopping around" reduce quality of life? Would wearing a condom rather than having increased risk of catching a deadly disease, reduce quality of life?

The duck would describe "quality of life" as being allowed to poop square bricks in peace. Unless, of course, either the duck was declared as having committed the mortal sin of having pooped against the natural order of pooping, that being a square-shaped or rectangular poop rather than round or that, in fact, the duck, being part of a fallen creation was therewise possessed. Having no means by which to confess his sin, the duck is therefore condemned." Aquackas, Theo. Ducvk., II.2.a.d.

Tom,

Humorous; yet, ignorant. I find it interesting how people that degrade others seldom use facts to support their beliefs. I guess life has always been about the ignorant condeming what they do not understand. It is better to be in the rabble then be enlightened and educated. Philosophy, science and history prove my points. Yet you revert to poop and a duck. Fitting

Gee, thanks, Perry. Good to see someone has a sense of humor...

Good thing I never mentioned ducking poop...

Now that would have been fowl.

Your key phrase there was "help prevent". It's not 100%, not near enough.

Your point Edwin? And since it isn't 100% effective then what do we do; dispense with the use of condoms?

It's not 100%, not near enough.

Edwin-452090, regarding the above quote from your comment #17.1:

I agree with you 100%! I am a big supporter of abstinence.

jameseg What do you do ? Surf the web Porn sites and deal yourself a hand?

Seriously- you expect people to only have sex if they want children?!

Brad Melton, regarding your comment #17.2:

I advocate abstinence since condoms are not 100% effective.

Please read or reread Edwin-452090's comment #18 below.

Advocate all you want to james and keep your head buried in the sand.

Brad Melton

Would you have sex with someone you knoew was infected, if you had a condom?

Edwin, my sexual life is none of your business and it's not the issue here. Keeping people healthy and disease free is.

jameseg What do you do ?

Regarding the above quote from Does all this scare you? Buy a Rottweiler's comment #17.4:

Thanks for the question. The most effective method is abstinence. And, I find the most effective method of achieving abstinence is to refocus one's thoughts onto something else when one feels tempted to feel sexual lust. A key is to keep one's mind and body active on other things. As a Christian, I also sometimes find it helpful to think of a scripture verse such as I Corinthians 10:13.

Abstinence is not the most effective because it's not the most realistic.

Brad Melton

I'll take that as a "no".

Preaching just abstanence, or just handing out condoms, don't work. Teaching both would. It's fairly clear to me that nature has desided that there are to many humans and is trying to kill us off. About 2 times a year there is something new. Point is there are 6.6 billion of us, if a group of people are to dumb to keep it in thier pants or use a condom. Why should we care? People we don't know die every day. The Pope cares, and is trying to help the best way he knows how. People like you care, and are trying to help the best way you know how. Both sides say the other is wrong. Sad fact is, another side, the people of Africa sure don't seem to care at all.

Jameseg: How you choose to respond leads me to believe that you very well maybe a Pastor of sorts I found interesting your choice of biblical versus,

1 Corinthians 10:13 (Contemporary English Version)

¹³You are tempted in the same way that everyone else is tempted. But God can be trusted not to let you be tempted too much, and he will show you how to escape from your temptations.

Well you keep up that abstinence, but try and throw a word or two out there about condoms, for those non-believers it would help , but surely wouldn't hurt

James,

So when you feel that "evil urge" to have sex you think of a bible verse to calm you down? Wow, that is actually kind of creepy and sad. You know you could be on to something James, pass out bibles instead of condoms! Seriously though, if you have sex with a partner with an unknow sexual past protect yourself.

Edwin wrote:

Sad fact is, another side, the people of Africa sure don't seem to care at all.

Many African governments and organizations do care, and have done good work countering the epidemic.

The problem is more a lack of services, resources, communication, or education, than any moral failing ("don't seem to care") on the part of the African people.

@ 17.14 TicTac-804370 and @17.13 Does all this scare you? Buy a Rottweiler,

I do support the use of condoms for those who lack the discipline to practice abstinence and seek no children. But, I consider abstinence the far better alternative.

I am an ecumenical, pro-life Christian. Although I am not a pastor, I consider every Christian to be a minister in some form. And, I have friends who belong to a variety of faiths, inlcuding atheists and agnostics. In fact, for many years I was an agnostic.

During my first year of college (the 1976-77 academic year) at an orientation in my dorm, a speaker told us that men who trusted solely on condoms for protection from pregnancy were called "parents." While new FDA standards have likely made latex condoms more effective when used properly and consistently, I think that advice is still not too far from the truth. And, the HIV virus is much smaller than sperm.

jameseg:

I respect your right to believe in what you chose to believe in. what you can not have is the expectation that I must agree with you. I have never professed to be the smartest frog in the swamp, but I surely don't understand this comment, because it out right makes no sense to me .

"I do support the use of condoms for those who lack the discipline to practice abstinence and seek no children. But, I consider abstinence the far better alternative."

I do believe i would have a hard time selling that arguement to my wife, being that sex is a very health and natural part of the marrage. And not always entered upon with the intent of having children , but the sharing of a mutual feeling of love or just plain satisfaction. All very natural in marrage.

@17.17 Does all this scare you? Buy a Rottweiler:

Especially in the context of marriage, sex has other benefits than producing children.

But, I think you will agree with me that during an entire week of 168 hours a husband and wife demonstrate their love for one another in numerous ways, and sex is only a small part of that love. Hugs, kisses, touches in various ways, and kind actions done to help one another are a larger part of the relationship.

It is very sad when people who are unmarried risk their lives through a few minutes of sex with strangers or casual friends. Condoms help, but only seek to treat the symptom, not the underlying problem of promiscuity.

Ok, with this statement I will not argue

WmRAllen

Realy? If those countries truly cared they would not mostly be 3rd world hell holes, where babies get mutilated b/c of how thier parents voted, or women get raped b/c they are black not brown, or get raped by men and told they should be raped by women b/c they are gay. Where most presidents were the leader of the latest coup.

I guess I'll repeat what I said above.There is sex outside of marriage and there are homosexual men. Both sins in the eyes of God but we're all sinners. If a simple precaution can save lives and you don't approve, fine. But why say something that if followed will result in lives lost?

Good grief James. If I used that method I would have the whole bible memorized!

Edwin-- And of course, every single country on the continent, from Tunisia to South Africa and from Senegal to Somalia, share the same problems-- after all, it is Africa, the Dark Continent, a benighted, god-forsaken place of savagery... right? The colonial powers never should have left...

Stereotyping the entire continent and all it's peoples because of what you see in the news is unfair to countries like Uganda, where the population demonstrates high levels of AIDS awareness and (according to some data) three out of five Ugandans can recite at least two methods of prevention. In fact, Uganda's AIDS Control Program is among the few success stories world-wide in terms of prevention.

Considering the news from Washington DC this week, perhaps we should take a clue?

Just to tie everything back around to the original article, the successful programs teach the ABCs of prevention: Abstinence, Be faithful, and Condom use. Together, these strategies form a proven and successful approach-- removing one of the three does not seem like an intelligent option.

A word of advice...marry your high school sweetheart-preferably the day after graduation.

Assuming you can control yourself that long, anyway. I know I said fifteen in a previous post, but some can hold out longer. If you can't, get married.

He isn't correct. He's stupid. I've been a nurse for 20 years. We call it SAFER SEX, because no method of disease transmission is 100% effective. Condom use is more effective than no method of all. And therefore it is one of the answers to reducing the transmission of disease. Period!

Thank You Brad..

Edwin, you don't always know someone has AIDS, particularly in some of these underdeveloped countries where medical care is lacking.

There are a lot of sayings for your replies;

You get what you deserve.
The stupid will be punished.
2 in the hand beats one in the bush.

etc, etc..

edwin, did you just say a person who is looking for a new mate, that finds one, and gets aids from that person when they didn't know they had it themselves, deserves to have aids? really?

Sorry, but most people agree that one in the bush is better than one in the hand, hence people are not going to stop having sex. Abstinence prevents desease and pregnancy as well as anorexia prevents one from getting fat. I'm not saying it doesn't work...

One problem that people seem to be forgetting when adressing this issue is that for many women and children, abstinence is not an option because sex is not a choice. Too many people have contracted AIDS from being raped. So the answer may not totally lie with male condoms, but in ways to help women prevent rape. The pope would be better served if he focused his message in this direction and didn't comment too much on the condom thing.

If you are THAT stupid then yes. It's called social Darwinism.

Jillicent

Sorry, but most people agree that one in the bush is better than one in the hand, hence people are not going to stop having sex.

Now that's funny!

It's not that Abstinence Doesn't work, it actually does work as a 100% sure fire way of preventing pregnancy and disease... it's just that it's not a realistic plasable option. ( I know.. Synonyms )

WE JUST CAN'T CONTROL ourselves.

Lack of opportunity is not the same as control, Ron.

Opportunity?

That was a personal slur. If you don't get it, well, you don't GET it.

Just ask Bristol Palin how well abstinence works!

I get it, Kristin. Very funny.

Actually real science has proven otherwise. I have actually read the studies. Condoms reduce the chance, key word "reduce", not prevent.

And please refrain from name calling, it just shows poorly on you.

Considering how deadly aids is - I'll take reducing the rate.

Abstinence indeed is one of an array of methods that can stop unwanted pregnancies and disease transmission; along with condom use.

Kuskus-- I was wondering about that claim myself.

Anyone out there know where he's coming from? Or is it merely an instance of the misguided belief that "teaching about sex will make people to have sex" that has proven such a detriment to developing a reasonable social attitude towards human sexuality in this country as well?

But it is....the church and moralist go after abortion first...AND if they succeed, condoms, the pill, IUD's...all forms of birth control are next....

because in the church's mind, sex is ONLY for procreation. You may do nothing to prevent the creation of a baby. Its an outdated, and I believe dangerous, attitude

When the Church gets its own moral house in order, then it can speak to the rest of us about issues of morality. Until then, it is simply pissin' in the wind.

but how many black catholics do you know

I don't know them personally, but there are many in Africa.

bdubo...

I don't feel that the Church is Outdated, just out of touch... The Vatican has done many wonderful things over history. This position might not be one of them......

and there are many Black Catholics... The hole reason the Pope is traveling to the African Continent is that there is growing population of Catholics there.

now this vine is about the Foot in mouth statement he made about the AIDS problem there in Africa...

Outdated , out of touch? Just semantics for saying the same thing, like not in tune with the world, inability to separate scientific facts from morality, Ostrich head in the ground syndrome.

I'm not Catholic. I think the Pope means well but I think he's still stuck in the days where religion was the government and anything else was heresy and or punishable by death. He isn't going about this the right way... not that there is a right way to go about the "situation" in Africa at the moment.

Irrelevant to the ignorant. Look at my post with facts. Do you people ever get tired of trying to pick on people that know more than you? Does it make you feel like you have a clue?

Your post doesn't include facts. It includes your own agenda.

Perry: I for one will not say that the Pope is Irrelevant... and I'm a life long Protestant... your information of what the Pope Did durring WWII was relevant and benificial...Think of the issue of Cloisters being the DOGMA of the day... What people are stating now... like the opening of the Cloisters, the Pope could stand on the Correct side of this issue and realize that the right attitude is to prevent the deaths not contribute to them by not doing anything.

Perry, I take your comment personally, ignorant I am not. Irrelevant the Pope is. Who am I picking on that knows more than me? You? The Pope? I seriously question that. All depends on where you're standing as to exactly how stupid you are dude. From a medical science standpoint the Pope is pretty dumb. Religion and beliefs rate over lives? What is it with the church, the only lives they care about saving are the ones that aren't born yet.

I have no interest in your nor anyone else's religion, for this man, simply another human being, to come out and say that condoms will not help the situation borders on criminal negligence. Condoms will not fully solve the situation, neither will abstinence; perhaps both could further progress against the disease if folks did either.

To the degree that this disease has grown in Africa, sex is not the only method by which it is spread. Abstinence will help, if people practice it, condoms will help, if people use them. What about the folks who get it in other ways? Sex isn't the only way that fluids are shared.

My statement is my opinion, the man is irrelevant. The church is irrelevant. Religion has spread more death on this planet than AIDS, pick one, any one. You can save your history lessons for someone who may be interested. Crusades, witch trials, suicide bombers, clinic bombers - all religious folks; none for me thank you.

I have no respect for religion, however I do respect your right to worship as you see fit. To me freedom of religion is just that, freedom OF religion, I am entitiled to live my life free of it. You are entitled to believe, worship and pray. You have your opinion, I have mine. My opinion is if the Pope kept his mouth shut instead of saying crap like this perhaps more lives could be saved.

Peace brother.

TampaSteve,

Are you serious? The Pope is the leader of the largest religion in the world. He is the leader of the only growing Christian religion in the world. He is the leader of by far the largest charitable organization in the world. The Pope is hardly irrelevant. Yet, you wish to be taken serious?

He is just another human being. He would say so himself. Again it appears you do not understand Papal Infallibility and yet you judge him?

You state that you have your opinion and I have mine and that you are entitled to live as you wish. I agree. Yet the most relevant man on this planet is not supposed to speak. The leader of the largest religion of the world is irrelevant and should not speak. So you can speak and he can not. It appears that your belief of freedom of religion does not extend very far.

You have no respect for religion; however, the greatest minds of all human history believed in God. Do you state the Pope is irrelevant because of his beliefs. Do you believe your mind is greater than Socrates, Plato, St Thomas etc.? Who is irrelevant?

TampaSteve is once again correct. Lets be real here for a minute...condoms would help the matter but not as much as one would like to think. Disagreeing with this only wastes time and lives. Any bit of help to at least try and negate the matter somewhat is better than doing nothing. Perry...the Matrix has YOU!

Perry, what you fail to understand here is that he is the most relevant man in the world to you and the Catholic religion. If that matters to you, then by all means he is relevant, to you and the followers of your religion.

You are absolutely correct when you say I don't understand Papal infallibility, I don't; I simply cannot understand how "just a man" is infallible. He is no more special than you or I, he simply holds a high position in a church - what that church is has no meaning or consequence to me. I am not a believer such as you are. I am in no way insulting you, at least not yet.

I am saying that the Pope is wrong. Hell the church is wrong for that matter. Largest church, smallest church, mediumest church, I don't care. People are dying, comdoms will help alleviate some of the suffering, and he says no. Pius bastard. Abbstinence would be grand as well, I'm not condemning that part at all, BUT condoms would be a large part of a solution as well.

Respect is earned, no matter who you are. From the lowliest laborer to the President, no one deserves respect for their position. You earn respect for your good works, you lose respect for bad works - this is bad work. I did not say the Pope could not speak, I said that if he kept his mouth shut more lives might be saved. He's free to speak and I'm free to call him irrelevant which is how this whole thing started.

The last thing I paid attention to that this man said was "Catholicism was the only true way to heaven", if you're not a Catholic you ain't going. Yep, sure, he's right. Catholics are it. Baptists, Protestants, Methodists, they're all wasting their time going to church on Sunday and praying to god and accepting Jesus as their savior. Was he right then or simply infallible? How about arrogant?

Dude your religion is yours, as I said before. Have at it, I'm happy for you. But when somebody says something as boneheaded as what the Pope did regarding AIDS, I have to call him out on it. As did many others here. You can post your history all you want, you can go on and on about how wonderful, warm and giving the Catholic religion is; ain't gonna make a bit of difference to me.

George Carlin once said something to the effect of, "religion is like a crutch, if it helps you through life that's fine, use it. Just don't use it to hit me with." That's what I see from folks like you, you need to push and push and push until somebody finally has to push back.

Perry, have yourself a fine day. You ain't budging, I ain't budging, we'd better stop now. I enjoy civil debate it's good for people, but there comes a time to call it a day. Try and contain your veiled insults, let's keep it civil.

George Carlin ended his career by concluding that "It's all Bull S_it and it's bad for ya"!

Tampasteve,

Again you do not know what you are talking about. The Pope did not state that only Catholic's can enter into Heaven. You read this garbage on MSNBC and believe that it is true. It is not. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that people other than Catholic's can enter Heaven. What the Pope stated that only Catholic's were part of the true Church on Earth. In fact people other than Cthaolics can be part of the universal mystical Church.

Papal Infallibility does not mean the Pope is impeccable. It means that when he and the Bishops get together and they agree on a Church teaching it will not be in error. The Popes have done this very few times in history. People try to bring it up to confuse the masses.

What you do not understand is you are not refuting the Catholic Church. You are refuting what you imagine the Church to be. You are in a sense arguing with yourself.

Here is one version of Papal Infallibilty- belief of the Roman Catholic Church that God protects the Pope from error when he speaks about faith or morality. Ok, so i wanna know WHERE it says this in the Bible? I beleive that, like anyone else, the Pope is gonna speak out of his a$s...on more than one occassion. My friend Jordyn just pointed out that this is one of many reasons why so many people stop going to church, I fall into that category.

David Cross said this about Papal Infallibilty: Why don't they just take him to vegas?

Pope: "I'm putting all the church's money on 24 Black."

Casino: "Oh, I'm sorry. It's 27 Red."

Pope's assistant: "I don't think you heard the man. He said 24 Black, and he has Papal Infallibilty."