Kim, do they know what prompted the shootings yet?

my prayers to the innocent.

You can be sure it wasn't the Amish.

Kim~ So sorry for the loss of your small community. My prayers are with you.

Kim,

Please keep us informed on what's going on. Our prayers are with you and your communuties.

Why do we think that guns are the way to defend ourselves. First, if you are angry, why would you think reasonably, you would think that if someone doesn't agree with you, let me pull out my gun and shoot him/her. With guns, the mind shuts down, you only think about harming the other person, you don't think about negotiation, nothing, just killing. Without guns, one must think about other means to stop the confrontation. I hate guns, if someone doesn't know anything but killing, forget about talking/negotations, let's just kill and ask questions later. It's barbaric, to use guns as a means of protection, it's only because you do not have a mind to do anything but kill.

In a perfect world, you are correct sunnylady.

Before guns it was swords, before swords it was clubs, before clubs it was rocks. All took a hand and a mind to use. I carry a gun to protect my self and my family. I pray I never have to use it, I still carry it because this isn't a perfect world.

The problem is that we liberalize society. We hold no one accountable for raising hoodlums, thieves and rapists. We let the TV baby sit the offspring. They feast on Springer, Judge Judy and Temptation Island. Gangs are glorified in rap music. Violent movies rake in the dough. I blame the liberalization of America.

Yes sunny, i will use my keen intellect to stop a butcher wielding madman...ever see x-men?

Sunny,

If someone breaks into my home, my first thought is to protect my wife and children. I do not have to retreat. I will shoot the person dead. Once you bust down my door, the negotiations are over. If I am out with my family, I will warn someone that I am armed while I am removing my 1911 from its holster. If they continue forward with their plans then they are dead. My family will go home unharmed.

What other defense would you put upon us? Maybe the police? The police are only there after the fact. After the woman is raped, after the car is stolen, after the family is found dead in their home. Plus they are darned heavy and don't fit in your pocket. There are not enough police officers to protect everyone, and they are not legally obligated to protect you. Warren vs D.C. proved that.

We as humans are our first line of defense. Every other line of defense is swcondary and after the fact. The police are only there to take a statement and to draw a line around your body.

Sunny,I hate to dissapoint you but even when angry I've never grabbed a gun let alone shoot someone.

Kim,

My condolances to your family on the loss of your friends and to your community. I live in NE Alabama and the whole state is pretty much in shock. We have had occurances such as this up my way as well. I remember when the first mass murder happened in my town a year after I graduated high school. Mine is a small town so the majority of us knew the gunman. There are disturbed people all acroos this world and this nation. Things like this don't just happen in the south but it is devastating to what ever community it happens in when things like this take place. My hear and prayers are with the people in your community and with the family and the loved ones of the victims. God be with you all at theis tragic time.

Rayne

lets look at some facts how many people do cigerettes kill every year ? 400,000 how come nobody is up for banning cigerettes?

if you want to save people take up the cigerette issue , atleast you have a legitimate complaint

100,000 deaths a year due to guns ... are you really that stupid or do you think that we are? you want to make people take a mental evauation before owning guns i would be ok with that .. i never giving my guns up because of a few stupid people a year choose to make headlines

Kim:

My prayers are with both communities. Did I read he killed his parents and grandparents? I must reread this article, but I wonder why he started with his family? He killed strangers, but no one at his workplace, yet he chose the workplace to end his own life.....how unusual. He is out of his misery for sure now, but what triggered him is a big mystery, however someone knows the answer to this question whether they reveal it or not.

uugghhh...geez!!..guns don keel peepl; peepl keels peepl.....now grabs mee nother beer an sum blony cake out that icebox Marylou

my prayers go out to all

I hate to break it to you Andy but this country was founded on violence........its nothing new from what the prilgrims did to the indians, to slavery to what is happing today..........can't blame everything on rap music or tv. Violence in america is nothing new.

The economy is driving people nuts. Look where he ended up . The old factory that closed down and where he had worked. Kim sorry about all innocent people including this derange man. I dislike when the anti people try to use this as an example, a gun does nothing till put in the hands of the wrong person, Like someone said above, break into my home put my family in danger and I am going to put you down like I would a mad dog

Armed people are free. No state can control those who have the machinery and the will to resist, no mob can take their liberty and property. And no 220-pound thug can threaten the well-being or dignity of a 110-pound woman who has two pounds of iron to even things out … People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence, they're begging for rule by brute force, when the biggest, strongest animals among men were always automatically right. Guns ended that, and a social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make it work. – L. Neil Smith (from The Probability Broach)

Terrorist!!! If were going to get them we probably should get them all!!

American terrorist have killed more Americans than any other Nation of terrorist on Earth! Oh...and P.s.,..... It's not just Gang members!!

Grew up not too far east of there, near Eufaula. Sorry for your loss. It's awful when somebody like that just snaps and starts murdering folks.

Kim

Yes you have our prayers and our deepest heart felt sympathy for all involved in the heinous act.

Remember: Guns don't kill people - people kill people.

Sadly, LOL...

maybe instead of banning guns we could ban media coverage of such events. Giving the shooters name and making them "famous" is part of the motivation of these nuts. We should not be glorifying the tragedy for other crazies to try to top.

Such a terrible thing, so sorry for the family, and the town.

God bless you sweetie! God will take care of you nomatter what!!!

I wouldn't be surprised to know that of all the killings of late (in the US and Abroad) were inadvertently linked to all the negative talk about our country, with it's sliding economy, and poor leadership. Not that the news of our National condition is an excuse, but people are cracking up all around us. People like the killer in this story. It was said of him that if asked 24 hours earlier could this guy do this sort of thing, friends and family would have said "no"," no way was the gunmen capable of this sort of madness." Apparently he was. He told his last employer "he had to go, he had to get- otta-here," what did he mean by that? Something had been eating at him for a long time, going crazy takes a while, it doesn't just happen over night. Those who knew him best, who are still alive could possibly answer these questions.

My prayers are with the families for sure, and if there are any radio/news channel reporters reading this, perhaps you should tone it down on your opinion of our collective economic condition.

Rick, actually it's - Guns don't kill people, People with guns kill people.

Kim,

Know your community is being held close in thought and prayer. Enterprise shares in the pain and loss that Kinston, Samson & Geneva are trying to overcome; we are grieving with you.

No party,

So the Chinese girl at Virginia Tech who was beheaded with a kitchen knife a couple of months ago isn't really dead? I'm sure her family will be greatful for that news.

Sassie I read your comment... what a comment to make out of stupidity. These poor people should be prayed for not called names.  

Kim I am heartbroken for your community. I just heard that deputy describing how he doesnt have a tear left on the radio and it tears me up. I have a 2 month old baby and I cant imagine someone taking something so precious from me. The fact that the coward killed himself was probably for the best as I am sure if I was a police officer on that force I would of killed the man myself.

Kim, I grew up in Dothan near Samson and it's hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea of any of the wonderful people of SE Ala doing a thing like this. Fortunately people like him are rare. But they can turn up anywhere I guess. Best wishes for everyone in the area.

...done him wrong...

He needed to see the forest for the trees.

I fail to see the significance of mentioning this tragic and most heinous deed in terms of it being a 'record' that has been broken; as if there's some sick twisted goal to surpass the next time around. Other than for the sensationalism of the act itself, there is no logical reason for news reports to continually comment with statements such as: "Worst mass shooting in Alabama history" or "Six members of a farm family in Rutledge were killed by a gunman in 2002. . . veteran law enforcement authorities said they did not recall any worse massacre in Alabama dating back decades."

I'm am so very sorry

Very good Point thunderproof. Originally I followed that up with a bunch of hyperbole praise as a joke but it just doesn't seem appropriate to joke under these circumstances.

Jegosset - very well stated. If someone busts into my home or starts shooting at me, obviously with the evident intent of bodily harm, the only way they'll be leaving is in a body bag. That's what self-defense is all about. Not everyone is going to just fly off the handle because someone looked at them funny; forgive my exaggeration, but its ridiculousness is fitting in comparison to such a bizarre statement.

Kim, my thoughts and prayers go out to your community and the victims' families. I can't even imagine what everyone is going through.

Sunnylady Really are you kidding me? Would you feel better if an angry person came after you with a knife or a club? Would that make them a more reasonable person. Is your argument that people with guns who get angry can't control their actions?

cmcaltn72.. Your keyboard is misspelling words again huh? cause it cant be YOUR fault. Never blame the shooter always the gun right?

Roland-320510 - look at the Phillipines or Mexico, or other places were guns are even more prevalent than they are here.

Ah, if you haven't figured it out. The Law Enforcement are being out gunned by the Illegal guns (best that money can buy) of the Mexican Drug Lords and in the case of the Phillipines the branch of the Al Quada. Note the innocent people in both countries get gunned down like cattle at a slaughter house and cannot fight back (legal gun ownership is banned in both countries) by both the police (corrupt) and the Drug Lords and Al Quada (Terrorists).

confused????-03743-lets look at some facts how many people do cigerettes kill every year ? 400,000 how come nobody is up for banning cigerettes?

Same reason that they don't ban alcoholic beverages. It is called profitable revenue (State and Federal Taxes). Hey, did everyone forget why the War of Independence (from England) aka Revolutionary War was fought (Taxation of products by the non users of the products, like Stamp Act, Tea Tax, etc.). By the way the first move by the British Occupation Forces (of the American Colonies) was to pass Laws against the ownership of firearms by Colonists, except "Squirrel" Guns. It can be noted also there was NO organized "Milita", the village Church bell was rung and whoever showed up was the "Rabble".

Very long time ago, I was raised at Fort Rucker, Alabama. Went to School at Daleville, later School at Ozark. Many years later (U.S. Military) ended up at Huntsville, Alabama and Redstone Arsenal, Alabama. It is really hard for me to understand why this would happen, possibly the injustices of the current Court System (the lawsuit that was filed according to the article).

First, if you are angry, why would you think reasonably, you would think that if someone doesn't agree with you, let me pull out my gun and shoot him/her.

Actually, the vast majority of us don't think like that. At least not in the world the rest of us are living in. Ever get out and interact with people much? You'd learn that it's only the smallest minority that resort to violence as their first choice for conflict resolution.

With guns, the mind shuts down, you only think about harming the other person, you don't think about negotiation, nothing, just killing. Without guns, one must think about other means to stop the confrontation.

Maybe your mind shuts down, but those of us who have carried and still carry them, either in the military or on our jobs--or even as civilians--still think of "negotiation." In fact, even cops try to talk a suspect down before they shoot him unless there's no alternative. Having a gun and being cognizant of the responsibilities that go with it make you think even more of the ramifications of its use or misuse.

I hate guns,

Then your entire argument is worthless. You fixate on the object and totally overlook the person misusing it. However, I am assuming you still like knives, screwdrivers, baseball bats, or stuff like that. Will you feel better being victimized by someone with a monkey wrench or sledgehammer? Or does that require you to think outside your safe little bubble?

if someone doesn't know anything but killing, forget about talking/negotations, let's just kill and ask questions later.

And that has nothing at all to do with guns, which supports my argument and undermines yours: It's the person! It's the person who knows nothing but killing, not the gun that sits motionless until someone uses it. But you have fixated on a childish terror of the scary gun and can't get over it.

It's barbaric, to use guns as a means of protection, it's only because you do not have a mind to do anything but kill.

It is not barbaric to use anything in self defense. So if a cop has a gun and the only way for him to save your life is to shoot someone, I expect you'll tell him not to shoot, right? No, you won't. But let's say we do things your way. It's barbaric to shoot someone who wants to kill me. Shall I pull out my escrima sticks and bludgeon him to death, or draw a knife and stab him so he bleeds to death? Maybe I should train vicious dogs to maul him. After all, that's not barbaric, is it?

Defending your own life by whatever means necessary is not barbaric, nor does it mean you have a mind only to kill. It means you have a mind to live, and you are exercising that same right to self-defense that humans have had since they learned to use tools.

But you've apparently decided to live the life of a victim, so enjoy it while it lasts. Try not to deprive the rest of us of our rights to defense, even if you don't like them.

What people fail to understand is that homeowners who have NO guns benefit indirectly from homeowners who DO, since the criminal isn't going to know which house is which.

Try not to deprive the rest of us of our rights to defense, even if you don't like them.

I agree with you PistOff08. These events are tragic, but a little bit of safety isn't worth my liberty.

As Ben Franklin once wrote...

"those that would trade a little liberty for a little safety deserve neither and will lose both"

When I was 18 I was driving with a friend and we came upon a big group of cars blocking the road. There was an obvious fight going on as my car came to a stop I was approached by a guy that looked like a gangbanger _this was the early 90's in phoenix where the gang threat was very real. The Gangster told me to turn around and drive away and I foolishly proclaimed my right to be anywhere I wanted. He called me a punk and said he was going to get his GATT and shoot my dumb ass. Rather than throw my car in reverse and drive away I reached into my Glove box and produced my .357 Pointing it right at his chest. I told him he better be quick getting that gatt.

His reaction completely took me by surprise he said something like Alright mother))))). and he started walking towards his car. Now I was in a really bad spot. What could I do I wasnt going to shoot him in the back and I sure as hell wasn't going to wait until he produced a weapon so I threw my car in reverse and got the heck out of there.

The lesson I learned was never flash a weapon ever! it just escalates the situation. Instead Only pull your weapon if you are absolutely sure you are going to use it and never threaten the other guy unless you are 100% certain you are justified in using it.

You would never get a situation where only the police and military have guns. Illegal guns will always find their ways into the hands of bad people.

I don't want to hunt anyone. I want to protect myself and my family, and possibly others that are standing around me if I am in a public area.

I'm not a gun-toting whacko. I'm a person that realizes that if guns are completely outlawed, only the lawful citizens will be unarmed making them easy targets for the unlawful ones. Like in this horrible situation.

billyboy,

The second Amendment does not give an individual right to hunt. It gives an individual the right to keep and bear arms. There is no amendment that gives you the right to shoot and mount deer. Self defense is a right given by the creator that supersedes the government. And let's not forget that it was the son who told his followers to sell their cloak and buy a sword and there are none of those in heaven either.

First and foremost, I empathize with the family of those injured or killed by this person.

billyboy, if that was the case then only the police, the military, and the criminals would have guns. As you well know, the criminals would be the first in line to turn over guns.

Tell you what since you are so concerned with innocents being killed. I request that you lead by example and immediately report to a proper mechanic and have your vehicle speed restricted to 55 mph. Far more people in this country are killed or injured due to to improper speed than guns. Because if this truly about saving the innocent then we should all have speed regulators and breathalyzers placed in all of our vehicles. Please let us know when you have your appointment scheduled for vehicle modifications as I am sure many news agencies would want to be there.

Before you reply..... we have ambulances, firetrucks, and cop cars so there is no need for you to speed and the there are laws about drinking and driving so you would only be allowing constant enforcement of the law.

I have an even crazier idea! What if someone had been armed and shot the assailant before he could have started hurting others. We will see more and more of this with the coming hardships of these times.

Far more people are killed by cars than guns. True enough. But you know what. Even more people are killed by other causes. So what?

We have enough other things presenting risks of death and physical injury that we really don't need guns to add to the toll, especially when guns are so easily used to snuff out the lives of innocents.

And those who think that arming everyone will make this a polite society, look at the Phillipines or Mexico, or other places were guns are even more prevalent than they are here. That is really what we need now - more depressed and unstable people running around with guns and more others out there to take them down.

LMAO,what a comedian

Roland-gun laws are different in the US. Also, hundreds of people die from bee stings each year...throw that on your list, because its OBVIOUSLY presenting a risk of death.

Roland, get your fact straight. It is illegal in the Phillipines for a private individual to own a gun without authority of the local law enforcement. Mexico also has strict gun control laws, just the criminals and police have them.

Then again you have countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, and Finland where more homes (percentage of population) have guns than anywhere else in the world, yet they all have the lowest crime and virtually no violent crime. Explain that. Heck, Switzerland requires everyone 18 to 45 to shoot X number of rounds a year...EVERYBODY! When was the last time they were invaded?

Roland,

Also look at Kennesaw GA. When Chicago banned guns in 1981, Kennesaw made it a law that everyone legally able had to have a gun in their home with ammunition for that gun. Since the law was passed in 1982 there has been only 3 murders there and only one of those was with a gun. It was a career criminal from Atlanta robbing a store that committed that murder.

States that have passed CCW permits have shown a reduction in violent crime year after year, while places like Chicago and D.C. who have outlawed guns (until recently) have noticed severely more violent crime. Why? Because the criminals are the only ones with guns. The law abiding citizen has been turned into the victim by their local government.

funny the UK tried that and they ended up with one of the highest violent crime rates in the world.

gun owner or victim .. you pick which everone you want and let me pick the one i want

and well all be happy

don't use this tragic event for your own political means.

ROLAND

Puerto Rico has one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation if not the most and last year 700+ people where murdered...Ahaaaa but wait..95 percent were drug relate gangbanger feuds with illegal guns. A carry a law abiding citizen can have to wait up to a 6month or more just to own a gun and have in the house, plus MUST be a member of a shooting club and to carry one lord you got lawyer fees court costs. But who have the most weapons in Puerto Rico ? the gangbangers, those pushing drugs and the innocent law abiding citizen ? Hung out to dry so Roland what you say is out in right field Guns don't kill people , most of the time ( great majority) illegal guns and people ( most illegally gotten ) , kill people

This type of situation is a very sad one and my heart goes out to all . But unless you have been through a home invasion like I have you will never understand why Guns are needed ( for those that CHOOSE ) to own one. It was family or them I took them down, no choose, just protection.

Go back to canada as your opinions are less than intelligent.

Who lives in canada that has commented here?????

Bottom line people.....I'd rather be tried by six than carried by six. Somebody going postal is a small possibility in a small part of society. What if the person standing next to the first victim had a CWP. There might only be one person dead, and that person might still be alive. You can either be shot by a madman (or woman), be controlled by that great bastion of history known as guvment, or you can choose to not participate in either one of thos scenarios. Period.

The criminals will still have their guns.

You are just a boy

By the way if you don't like gun ownership, or just plan don't like guns, then don't buy one.

Or Better yet get a petition going and amend OUR Constitution that gives me and all rest out there that choose to have and exercises their legal right to have and bare arms. So just keep running at the mouth till that change happens, Which it never will.

And until such day that people that don't like guns get the Constitution changed. I shall like others continue to carry and own a gun.

Please try to understand if we the people don't have the right to bare arms the bad guys out there will have a huge advantage! PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT!!!! I don't own a gun but the bad guys out there don't know that but if you and others try to change the law then they'll know and WATCH OUT, OPEN SEASON!!!! Kim, my prayers go out to your community, RIP.

When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. Besides it appears his mother died from fire. When somebody goes off the deep end it is very difficult to stop them. Look what Timothy McVeigh did with fertilizer in OKC bombing.

Guns are not the problem! The person behind them are. They are the one pulling the trigger! I have a permit. I will not use it unless my, my wife or somebody elses life is in danger! But nobody has a right to take my guns. ( 2nd. Amen). I like the idea of a criminal not knowing if somebody has a gun or not. That is a very good deterrent!

Jegossett, the Creator gives you the right to kill? What happened to thou shall not kill? I never saw any fine print on that one saying it was ok in the case of self defense, or to stop a robber, etc... What Bible have you been reading? The NRA Bible?

NO Party! This one is in yours. Try it on for size!!!!!

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I prefer an eye for and eye and keep my gun loaded and ready

"I prefer an eye for and eye and keep my gun loaded and ready "

Forgive them Father, they know not what they do

If we outlawed guns America would be like one of those Mexican Border towns. The Drug dealers would push the limits of violence to new limits.

If you don't like guns dont buy one. But I like the option of defending myself.

A person does have the right to self defense.

Jesus said inLuke 22:36: "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Also as said above:

Exodus 21:23-25 (King James Version)

²³And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

²⁴Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

²⁵Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

There's a famous line in the classic film, THE GRAPES OF WRATH. The Goad Family is being kicked off their farm by the banking (higher-ups) Recall that this movie takes place during the Depression and the drought in the Midwest, which was coincidental to the Depression. Grandpa Goad is waiting for the banker to arrive with the eviction notice. He is armed with his shogun. When the banker arrives, he explains to Grandpa that it is not his fault, it is the corporation's.

Grandpa, frustrated, says, "well who do you shoot?"

Right. Who do you shoot?

1) I don't believe in "Sin"
2) The KJV of the Bible is the worst translation in history, look it up. Plus relying on the Old Testament goes against being Christian. When Constantine I had the first Bible codified, many Christian scholars at the time argued against the Old Testament's inclusion as it was obvious that the God Jesus spoke of was a loving God, and not the one of the Old Testament. Besides, Luke never met Jesus, he was Paul's scribe/physician, and most likely lover. Take a class on Bible history already.

1. No ONE needs a semi-automatic weapon to defend themselves or hunt.

2. There needs to be better mental health services. There are some truly disturbed people out there.

RobWI -

Roland, get your fact straight. It is illegal in the Phillipines for a private individual to own a gun without authority of the local law enforcement. Mexico also has strict gun control laws, just the criminals and police have them.

Absolutely Correct.

Then again you have countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, and Finland where more homes (percentage of population) have guns than anywhere else in the world, yet they all have the lowest crime and virtually no violent crime. Explain that. Heck, Switzerland requires everyone 18 to 45 to shoot X number of rounds a year...EVERYBODY! When was the last time they were invaded?

Most of those countries have mandatory Conscription (Military Service) also. Almost everyone in Switzerland is in their Military Reserve. I almost fell on the ground laughing when I saw a (working) anti aircraft gun (peeked under the cover) in front of the place that we stayed at (south of Geneva) and a couple of rifles that looked like a Belgium FAL Rifles in the coat closet (room).

I prefer the old testament. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I warn you if you knock my tooth out, I'll rip your head off.

I can't see the seller being one to blame (if they are following the law). A gun dealer is not a doctor and can not diagnose someone with a mental problem (unless said person walks in nude, covered in peanut butter and is talking to an invisible person). They are required to fill out a purchase form, send it to the state either by computer or telephone. They get either an approval or a denial from the state. If the customer is denied then that, as Paul Harvey would say is the rest of the story. If they are approved, then they are legally allowed to purchase the gun of their choice.

Gun control DOES NOT WORK it has been proven time and time again. Crime ALWAYS rises when stricter gun laws are enforced. Look at Great Briton, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia just to name a few. The right to own a gun or any other method of defense is a god given right that cannot be repealed by any act of Government. The last time our government tried to remove guns from the populace in Concord we slaped them silly and sent them packing and gained our independence as a bonus.

Barrett man: crime in Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia were next to non-existent (unless you want to count the state sponsered killings as the crimes). Last I checked, Great Britain, Canada and Austrailia don't have homicide by gun problems like the U.S. does. As for Mexico, the sad fact is that most of the violence is drug related, and the weapons they are getting are largely coming from the U.S. side of the border.

And your historical reference to Concord - (a) it wasn't the U.S. government at all, (b) the British were the ones that were slapped silly, and (c) the British weren't trying to impose gun control. Were you out in the woods smoking weed during history class?

No Barret. Those countries have less gun crimes/killngs than us.

But I'm not for a gun ban.

The problem is the amount of guns not the right to own one.

90% of weapons used in drug cartel war in Mexico are coming from the U.S.!!!

Back to the right to own -then we can agree on a right to privacy as well.

Roland - Yes I was referring to state sponsored crime. Your wrong about Canada, Australia, and Great Briton so you better look at the stats. And at Concord the Government was the British, and they were there to disarm the people so I guess you must have been out in the woods smoking weed. And Dawn - I did not say they had less crime I was referring to the increase in gun violence since they imposed bans

Barrett Man-

It's Great Britain and not briton. If anything at least get that out of the argument.

You cannot be realating dicator states with gun control. Crime was not higher in those countries commited by regular citizens. Most of the crime was commited by the government itself. So how can you say that gun control doesn't work (didn't work) in those times? If there was less control over guns people wouldn't have reduced the killings by the SS. They were brainwashed and listened to what they were told to do. I still do not see how you are trying to relate these countries. And on Canada , Australia and Great Britain (Not Briton) here are the facts:

Canada:8,100 victims of violent gun crime, ranging from assault to robbery and homicide, accounting for 2.4% of all victims of violence. Handguns made up nearly two-thirds of all firearms used.

Personally I think you are an idiot but that's just opinion.

Barrett Man-

It's Great Britain and not briton. If anything at least get that out of the argument.

You cannot be realating dicator states with gun control. Crime was not higher in those countries commited by regular citizens. Most of the crime was commited by the government itself. So how can you say that gun control doesn't work (didn't work) in those times? If there was less control over guns people wouldn't have reduced the killings by the SS. They were brainwashed and listened to what they were told to do. I still do not see how you are trying to relate these countries. And on Canada , Australia  and Great Britain (Not Briton) here are the facts:

Canada:8,100 victims of violent gun crime, ranging from assault to robbery and homicide, accounting for 2.4% of all victims of violence. Handguns made up nearly two-thirds of all firearms used.

Personally I think you are an idiot but that's just opinion.

Snupa - First I was not referring to numbers, I was referring to the INCREASE in gun violence in those countries since imposing the laws, and 8,100 is pretty high considering the total population of Canada. And I really am not too concerned how you spell Britain, Brytin, Britane., Get it? And your opinion is worth squat!

Dawn and Roland,

The guns used in Mexico are not mainly coming from the U.S. I'm sorry but that is not true. They are using fully automatic weapons there. Fully automatic weapons here are very strongly regulated and they are VERY expensive. I have a small fortune invested in the four that I own. The Mexican drug cartels are using RPG's, Claymore mines and other weapons that are not coming from here. They are getting those weapons from south of their border and from their own military. People in the Mexican military are deserting to go to the cartels so they can make more money. You can believe Eric Holder all you want but he is just as misinformed on this as he claims to have been regarding the FALN Terrorists and Marc Rich.

How bout banning cell phones, how many people have been killed while driving while talking or texting on a cell phone.

Let's ban swimming pools so people don't drown. Let's ban alcohol so people don't drink and drive. Let's ban disease since it kills more people in this country than anything else. Let's ban food so people don't die from choking.

Better yet, let's just live in one huge damn bubble so nothing can harm us.

Me thinks Roland should spend less time reading "stories", and start reading a little more history. In his world, history WILL repeat itself..

As one person wrote, "With guns, the mind shuts down". Shooters always seem to have a psychotropic drug history and the mental health professionals don't really know how these drugs work other than that they permanently alter brain chemistry over time. They also appear to induce a homicidal/suicide state of mind that was not present before the person was forced onto these drugs. So very likely it is the psychotropic drugs that shut down a person's mind not guns. We have had fatal shootings at a church, at a prison, in Alabama and in Germany outside Stuttgart. I would probably make money on a bet that psych drugs are involved in some way prior or present in all these shootings.

I extend my deepest sympathies to those affected by this senseless act. As for European countries having less violent crime... this mornings headline is ..GERMANY..16 DEAD IN SCHOOL SHOOTING ... a teenage boy went crazy in a school and killed 15 people before the police shot him. Gun control laws are very strict in Germany and this isn't the first mass shooting at a school there. It's always the innocent defenseless people these losers go after. Why is it that you never hear of somebody walking into a gun show and opening fire ?

What a terrible tragedy. My deepest sympathies.

enzelow76, what made this so shocking and world-wide news is the fact it is so rare in Europe. Shootings in the US are, sadly, somewhat commonplace. The fact that this kid in Germany had to go out of his way to get a gun is the most chilling aspect of the story for Germans. Here in the US all he would have needed to do was open Dad's desk draw.

Yes people who wish harm on others will always find a way to get a gun, but that doesn't mean we should make it easier for them. While I personally hate hunting, as there is no need for it for food, I can understand someone with a rifle or a shotgun. Handguns, though, are good for only one use - killing people. Never heard of any hunter shooting a deer with .45 or a 9mm. Have you?

As for protecting my family, I know 5 different styles of martial arts, and have skills with various staff weapons. Anyone breaking into my home with or with out a gun, will end up knocked out and with a few broken bones, but alive. Killing is never an answer. To kill another, even in self defense lowers oneself to their level, and I will not do that. Besides, anything he/she/they were to steal can be replaced, but a life can't be.

Yes, those saying "But what if he killed your wife, or other family member?", will my killing him bring my loved one back? No. I'd have to live with the guilt of killing someone while also grieving for my own loss. That's something I am unwilling to endure.

No Party, I can't agree with you. You didn't learn your skills overnight, I'm sure it took you a while. How does one defend themselves until they get to your skill level? And not everybody has your dedication, either.

Also, I feel if someone breaks into my house, or attempts to harm me or my family, they have FORFEITED all right to human consideration. And why should I have to replace something if someone attempts to steal it? It's mine, I worked for it, and nobody else has a right to take it without my consent.

No, killing the perpetrator will not bring your loved one back. But maybe you could prevent the loss of your loved one in the first place.

"God created all men equal. Sam Colt made sure they stayed that way."

How much more difficult would it have been to round up the Jews for Hitler if they were an armed citizenry? I don't Know if the citizenry that was masacared by Stalin was armed but I am certain it would be far more difficult for tyranny to take hold if Citizens hold guns.

We need to be vigilant at this time. First the current government will come for our Businesses and then once they have control of the money they will try and take control of our weapons.

Never Give up your weapon to the state!

There have been 14 mass shootings in Europe since 1996. They are NOT rare. In almost every country that had a mass shooting, there is/was a gun ban.

Of course hand guns are made to kill people its a tool. Be sure to use the right tool for the job! If you want a good home defense weapon buy a colt 1911a.

No Party I DO hunt with handguns, makes it a lot more challenging ,but I have been shooting since I was in kindergarten,my father taught my brothers and sisters and I how to respectfully use firearms .that they are a useful but dangerous tool ,he also taught me how to use an ax and a chain saw, again ,useful but dangerous if mishandled. I don't know any martial arts, I am far enough past my prime to be deluded into thinking I could take on one or more thugs in a fight so I will keep my gun handy and if I need to use it I have full confidence in my ability and willingness to use it for the defense of my family,my property and my self

90% of weapons used in drug cartel war in Mexico are coming from the U.S.!!!

No, that is what the MSM is feeding you and is at best left wing propaganda conjoured up by this administration. The fact is that the Government of Mexico is not providing the US with any serial numbers to the weapons they are siezing. Most likely you will find that they types of weapons siezed are not easily attainable here in the US. The news shows you a table full of fully auto weapons, hand grenades, and grenade launchers, non of which can be purchased legally here in the US execpt by a select few class 3 license holders, and then make the claim they are all coming from the US. Eric Holder himself stated as much and it's complete bullsiht! He is the most anti-gun wacko in the administration and he knows exactly what he is doing.

The Mexico issue is nothing more than a deliberate attempt to give the impression that the weapons are originating here in the US in order to drag us into thier incompotance and/or justify the O administations attempts at futher gun control measures. This statement is typical of the lies being spread by this administration when it comes to guns. If they're coming from the US, it is thru the guns the Miltary gets from us, half of thier army is corrupt. The only two things the US is guilty of with Mexico are not sealing the border and using the drugs that come across thereby creating the demand.

“Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.” - L. Neil Smith

“Gun control? It’s the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. I’m a bad guy; I’m always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull the trigger with a lock on, and I’ll pull the trigger. We’ll see who wins.” - Sammy “The Bull” Gravano, whose testimony convicted John Gotti

“Gun control has not worked in D.C. The only people who have guns are criminals. We have the strictest gun laws in the nation and one of the highest murder rates. It’s quicker to pull your Smith and Wesson than to dial 911 if you’re being robbed.” - Lieutenant Lowell Duckett, President Black Police Caucus, Special Assistant to Washington, D.C. Police Chief

“I am convinced that we can do to guns what we’ve done to drugs: create a multi-billion dollar underground market over which we have absolutely no control.” - George L. Roman

“They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?” - Paul Harvey, 1994

“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” - Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

“Gun registration is a gateway drug.” - Mark Gilmore

“Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority. Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew’s possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation. Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions will be punished with imprisonment and a fine.” - Nazi Law (Regulations Against Jews’ Possession of Weapons), 1938

“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.” - Mahatma Gandhi, in Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446

“He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” - Luke 22:36 (King James Version)

“Suppose the Second amendment said “A well-educated electorate being necessary for self-governance in a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed.” Is there anyone who would suggest that means only registered voters have a right to read?” - Robert Levy, Georgetown University Professor

“[We] should not blame a gun itself for any crime or any acts of violence, any more than we can blame a pen for misspelling a word.” - Senator Wallace F. Bennett (R-UT), Congressional Record, 5/16/68

“It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine (1737-1809), American Revolutionary, US Founding Father and Author

“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

Roland-320510

Barrett man: crime in Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia were next to non-existent (unless you want to count the state sponsered killings as the crimes). Last I checked, Great Britain, Canada and Austrailia don't have homicide by gun problems like the U.S. does. As for Mexico, the sad fact is that most of the violence is drug related, and the weapons they are getting are largely coming from the U.S. side of the border.

Sure as long as you were not Jewish, not Politically Incorrect, not Homosexual, not a Gypsy, Belonged to the Nazi Party, or were a Stalinist. You would like to think that US Weapons are the best, wrong. Alot of weapons are much better, Russian design, manufactured in China (ChiCom, Chinese Communist) at modern automated factories built at Machau, China and Shanghai, China (using US Bailout Money). Like the ones captured at Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Darfur, South America, Somolia, etc..

And your historical reference to Concord - (a) it wasn't the U.S. government at all, (b) the British were the ones that were slapped silly, and (c) the British weren't trying to impose gun control. Were you out in the woods smoking weed during history class?

Guess you were out smoking that weed. The British did impose Gun Control, especially in Boston. And the British were the Government in the US ("The Colonies") until after the Revolutionary Wars.

Before some one says it I stated Revolutionary Wars, due to the fact that because information took so long, the War of 1812 makes it Wars, plural.

Barney,

If the seller refused to sell a gun to someone because he thought they shouldn't have one then the ACLU would jump in and sue the seller and put them out of business for discrimination against phsyco people.

Marala Scott, a timely post. The stresses of this "modern, progressive life" are about to cause many people to explode. So much pressure on our children. So much pressure on our families. Kids are raised by video games and TV while Mom and StepDad are out trying to make enough money to pay for all those box store purchases.

It will only get worse.

yep...

pass the lord and praise the ammunition!

biki and to all,

Some of us choose a less modern or "progressive" life so we can raise our families instead of the proverbial "village". This is an individual family choice of course. It does entail sacrifice by all those involved, but I take pride in raising my sons. My wife and I reap the joy of seeing their smiling faces when they learn something new, taught to them by us. They are social, sharing, polite and disciplined.

Time, money and possessions are fleeting, but a happy family lasts for generations!

I urge everyone to take an hour a day to plant and tend a garden, no matter the size, with their children. You will find every ones stress will dissolve and excitement will prevail!

Diobolik, we put our tomato plants in the ground this afternoon. In this small, sleepy town we typically do not share that "progressive" ratrace chase. We came in this afternoon to find the horrible news of this shooting just coming to us. I would agree, people need to take a big step back and get a grip on reality.

I agree Marala:

With so much talk of gun control, I forgot what the blog was about. Do you really think this had something to do with the economy? The fact that he started with his parents leads me to think this was more personal than financial. I could be wrong, but he started with his parents.................

True, the guy probably lost his job, had to move back home, didn't like it, etc... then flipped out. Maybe he was on meth or crack and flipped out? Things like this happen in Detroit about once a month or more,( last year anyway). Now, in Detroit, people are so poor I think they ran out of money to buy bullets. I'm sure more of this will happen with unemployment so high and desperation at peak levels.

We all live at different "levels" of society. Each level has it's challenges and rewards. We live with a small amount of luck, and grace, and wake up every day and make choices. This "gentleman" was a victim of his society, and environment, and chose to react in the manner he did. There were many other choices he could have made, whether it's family, church, or hospital, and he took the wrong road. We all have this "ability", and have to choose on a daily basis the road we travel. We should all take this "challenging" time in history, and prepare our "choices" we may have to make, in the event we find ourselves in the same boat. We all have the ability to recognize when a family member or friend "changes", due to some extraordinary circumstance. Trouble is, we have a difficult time, recognizing when the change is us.

He quit his job and was well liked by his employer according to the article. I dont think it had to do with work.

ultracon2009

1. The Company stated : "he was a reliable team member who was well liked"

2. In 2003 he was "forced to resign" from Reliable Meats ( a previous company he worked for)

*I think that is where you saw "forced to resign"

3. He also had all of his previous work location listed for revenge (excl police dept)

seems there were some issues but not related to economy....either way, very tough story.

And you know what else...people need to be careful of the way they treat other people...because you never know you might be the person to push that person over the edge. So we should all be aware of the way we treat each other friends, families, co-workers...you know we all have our burdens to bear and maybe if we would start showing a little more kindness and compassion towards each other....just maybe we won't have these people snapping. I'm jjust saying it is something to think about, stop being so mean to each other...what's missing is the sincere love and compassion for our fellow beings...

Send lawyers, guns, and money

Not funny TF. Go back to school and learn the meaning of the word TACT.

Ridiculous remark TF.

TF may lack tact, and as ugly as the comment was, one cannot dismiss the probability of its accuracy.

never know he could have been one of the victims of the last round of lay offs as well. but most likely this has been brewing for awhile, and from the majority of his victims having been his family he might have had some kind of mental thing going on as well.

my thoughts and prayer are with the survivors of this mess

actually, it was funny

ummm, wait....sad

uhhhhh.......damn true

now that is funny lets ban 401k's

I wish they'd tell us who got the money that disappeared on the 401 statements. I know someone gets what I lost. They aren't going to allow money to just vanish. They just want you to think it does. Someone got 45K this year out of mine.

Jeeze, another conspiricy theory.... Maybe it was Bush!

Actually its a very real possability that his 401k could of touched him off. As for where the money went it disappeared. The stocks are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. So when you put 45,000 in you bought stock at the going rate. You still have the same percentage of the companies you bought unless you owned AIG, Lehman, Bear Stearns,Washington Mutual or Freddie and Fannie mae.

To judy-373988, money lost in your 401k went to the person who sold their stock to you. Think of it like this: The money lost when house goes down in value goes to the person we bought the house from.

Tired Flordian

If it was about his 401k he would have done it sooner - like last year when the market dropped 41% under Bush....

Brad O'Neill - As for where the money went it disappeared.

Actually, it went to pay for the "insurance" (gambling) on the stocks, also known as Swaps or Derrivatives. So yep, someone else got your money, it did not just disappear. This happened to many people to the tune of 60 - 100 Trillion USD, the real cause of the "Global Economic Crisis". See International Swaps and Derrivatives Association Incorporated (VP Biden's Delaware Constituent), isda.org. ISDA made possible (legal) by Congress passing the Law to remove the Laws to prevent another 1907 Depression and 1929-1939 Great Depression.

Nicely said!

did you hear in the back ground the mayor was trying to talk but MSNBC WAS CUTING HIM OFF

What accent?

Correct. Accent refers to wherein stress is placed within a word with more than one syllable. What most refer to as, "accent," is actually a dialect. For example, I speak with a slight Southern dialect.

English class is now dismissed. Continue.

Right on point, Meg. This was a very angry, troubled person and I wonder whether someone must have seen an idication of that? Usually, when we think back, we know we saw signs of loneliness, isolation, abuse, etc. Are we our brother's keeper? We have to be aware, and concerned, about our brother, no matter who he may be. Could someone have prevented this? Maybe, maybe not, we don't know but, we all see troubled people and we usually look past them. Maybe someone could have asked the right questions and drawn out the reason for his anger. We'll never know, and we'll never know what makes a person do such horrible things. Troubled people prey on others and, sometimes, actually take this action and others. Consider the little girls who were killed in Florida - the Amish who were killed in Pennsylvania - the Colorado school shootings - these people have no sense of reason, they have only one goal and that is to kill. Banning guns will not solve this problem. My heart goes out to that community and I pray for them and for everyone.

I also agree. This is not a case of self defense. I think everyone is capable of snapping. That being said, if guns were to be banned, these people would find another weapon. They could just as easily grab a knife. What are we gonna do, ban all sharp objects? Ban those, these people would still find a weapon.

Furthermore, who's to say when this man got his gun, he wasn't mentally stable? We need to look at the real issue, which is why are more and more people being driven to go on violent rampages? This should not be turned into a debate on whether or not people should be allowed to have guns.

This guy might not of been "the wrong people" when he purchased the gun. There are things that push some people over the edge. Do you think all people go buy guns to use on other people. More likely than not this kid was raised wiuth guns, knew right from wrong and did not ever dream of a scenerio where he would kill 10 people. Only he knows.

Yep. He started this rampage by burning his mother to death, not shooting her.

People who want to kill others will always find a way, regardless of whether they have a gun or not. Point in fact-the BTK Killer didn't use a gun. The Boston Strangler didn't use a gun. Ted Bundy didn't use a gun. O.J. didn't use a gun. Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun. The 911 terrorists didn't use a gun.

Hmm...is this a re-occurring theme?

Hey, If it's written, I'll misread it, try to get your facts straight. The BTK Killer absolutely used a gun. He forced his way into homes with a 357 magnum and in some cases shot someone dead before doing things to another person.

Restricting guns just puts them in the hands of the bad guys- and then they know YOU are defenseless.

Too true.

Cops won't arive until afterwards, which is too late regardless of how fast they drive or how close they are.

Many times this is true. No amount of money in the world is worth being shot and killed. The worst when I was with Law Enforcement were the Domestics, when you don't know if you would get a chiefs knife between the shoulder blades from the wife while talking to the husband (standing between them to prevent them from fighting).

This will likely be used by the Eric Holder Constitution busters to go after our 2nd Amendment, and the uneducated will follow like mindless sheep.

Well, look at what the sheep let Congress pass into Law. H.R. 1955 and S.1959.

Most likely these perps are CIA mind control victims, as in many other famous shootings.

This can be only rated as "Conspiracy Theorist" by others.

What might help is better mental health community programs, and a better economy.

True, we need to send Congress in for a mental health evaluation, so that they get a grip on reality (most do not even know how much a gallon of milk costs). LOL.

I also grew up with Alford White the family that got killed.People this is not funny and it is not a joke.

Bama-

It is so difficult down here right now! So many conflicting stories. The housefire where the woman was shot was a friend of my family. And we are being told all these crazy stories! Just waiting patiently til it all gets pieced together.

a artical I read said it was the shooter mother.Please write me back.

Bama-

our hearts, prayers and condolences from northern california. we had and incident like this about 9 years ago, tore our community up something terrible. we're praying for y'all and hope that when the shock wears off the healing will soon begin

Kim, my heart goes out to you. I'm so sorry that such a tragedy has happened.

It is so difficult down here right now! So many conflicting stories.

Unfortunately, tragedy breeds rumors, a lot of which are untrue. I hope that the truth is hashed out and the rumors are buried.

My condolences again. Hang tough.

Bama and Kim....lots of thoughts and prayers coming your way.

They also do it with airplanes. 9/11 never forget!

dont forget breast implants, or peanuts.

Maybe we should ban people.... Oh yea, Hitler and Stalin tried that after they took away their guns.

I actually like the ban people idea.

you forgot Postal employee

add corrupt government

Madoff investor?

hahahahahaha.. oh man my sides hurt.. sorry your being serious??? ;)

Explain the rock bottom low crime rates in Israel and Switzerland, where guns exist in almost every household (including automatic weapons)?

Links, Facsurgn, links!

Little Dreamer:

You make some good points, but you don't mention training and safety, which would be the most important thing with an armed society. I don't suggest just handing a gun to any able-bodied person without extensive training on how to handle high tension situations and the gun itself.

I think this would dramatically reduce the amount of "chickens with their heads cut off" scenarios you were referring to.

little dreamer,

Sawed off shot guns are not legal. Ak-47s sold in the uUS are the sporter version that do not fire automatically i.e. one bullet for each time the trigger is pulled versus pull the trigger and all the bullets fire.

The scenario you present is completly un realistic. Even in the old western frontier what you describe would not happen. To counter your question what purpose does registration serve? Why does the government need to know if I own a gun? VIf I am a law abidding citizen why does the government need to monitor my ownership of weapons.

Each fire arm comes with a users manual that always address safety first. I have not ever found a shooting range that does not offer safety courses for new shooters.

Making things mandantory will not reduce crime. criminals are criminals and will do what they are going to do REGARDLESS of what laws are in place.

Little Dreamer

If you don't plan on doing anything illegal with your gun, why not register it?

I don't want the government to have a list of which guns I own when the leftist scum decide to confiscate all guns in this country.

As often as this government loses private data on citizens from their databases (Social Security numbers stolen because of their usual ineptitude), I also fear a list of my guns would end up in the hands of criminals, who seem to have the same basic idea that many liberals have - they have the right to take anything of value I own.

Yes, it would be nice to live in la-la land, where I could offer a rapist a flower to keep him from harming me after he breaks into my home, and where no child ever experiences anything traumatic...but that won't happen in this administration, nor in my lifetime.

It's not that owning a gun is the bad part, people just don't treat them with the respect the deserve. You hear in the news that people shoot their friends because they horse around with guns. If people would remember these two simple rules, gun injuries and deaths would decline sharply:

1. Always treat a gun as if it were loaded.

2. Never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot, maim, or kill.

That's all it takes. Some common sense.

NPA could not have said it better. I, as a gun owner, have taught these truisms to every person I have ever instructed in the use of fire arms, including my 3 children and wife. If a fully loaded gun is placed on a table, cocked with the safety off, it is will not harm and individual until an "intelligent" being picks it up. My guns are kept locked up, unloaded and safe. I just wish people would quit using tragedies like this one for political gains

BTW - nice to hear from you again, NPA

Bob, well said! Wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where you didn't need to have a gun! It's amazing how people think you shouldn't have to right to bare arms, crazy! Like I said before, I don't own a gun but the bad guys don't know that but if for some crazy reason the government passes a law where citizens can't bare arms WATCH OUT PEOPLE!!! I'll own a gun soon because I'll have the right to! Peace........

dreamer - same scenario, crowded place, one nutter fires his gun killing someone - your scenario has all the gun carriers now opening fire and killing innocents by mistake. by scenario has everyone unarmed apart from the nutter, now everyone in that crowd dies by gunshot.

if a good citizen was armed in the crowd they could take down the shooter with one shot. now i do believe people should have completed gun safety classes before being able to purchase a gun and i know someone with criminal history cant buy a gun but also they should check for anyone with mental history.

Marc - I don't "need" to own a gun, I enjoy shooting. I am not a hunter anymore, but still enjoy punching holes in paper and breaking ashtrays in flight. It's cheaper than golf and, to me, more satisfying. And I do firmly believe in gun control. The tighter the grouping the better. Seriously, if a person is nuts, if they are unstable, they should not own a gun. If they have a history of violence, they should not own a gun. But, if my 21 year old son wishes to buy a hand gun, it's his right and I will defend that right. As for the fear of the Government taking this right, look at the massive increase of gun sales from Nov to Jan to see what will happen in they try. But no, they're going after tax increases on the ammo instead.

Really Isreal as an example of PEACE??? REALLY? Holy heck step away from the KoolAid!

I won't regiister my gun because I don't have to. I don't need to. I don't want to. Some of you don't get it. Most of the people against guns and for gun registration are the types that I don't want t have guns. They don't know anything about them, therefore they should not own a gun.

Little Dreamer thats nice, did you see the hotdog robbery article ("Hot Dogs Used in Gun Heist"), how do you think the crooks knew that the house had guns in it to steal. Maybe access to the National Gun Registry, Law Enforcement Database.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29615877/?GT1=43001

Think about that.

Extreme as it sounds Jon, you make a good point.

Great point Jon. I know a guy that was in the process of being SHOT and robbed by 3 repeat offender / thugs (out of prison...but that's a WHOLE other conversation). The ONLY reason my friend is alive today is that he was armed, trained in gun use and safety, and was able to use HIS gun to defend himself. I'm sorry to say that non of the repeat offender / thugs were killed in the incident...that's the really sad part of the story.

ultracon2009 - The two times I have needed to make the presence of my weapon known I called the police from the spot and filled out an incident report a very good CYA move.

You were lucky. We were told not to go near the shopping malls prior to Christmas, crooks know that it is easy pickings during that time. Like an idiot I went to one of the malls and as I was closing the door on my Chevy, I felt a knife pushed to my back. The crook said, "gimme your wallet". I had a two shot hammerless .357 magnum (one barrel shot shell, one barrel hollow point) disguised as a wallet (used a cut up leather wallet) in my back pocket. Took one step forward (away from knife) and drew the pistol. The robber's eyes got real wide when he saw the pistol and ran. When my fellow Law Enforcement Officers (I was a Deputy Sheriff) showed up, I got screamed at for not shooting the ^$#^# perpetrator by the Officers after filling out the Police Report. Because, they now had to go looking for the &^%$&^% perpetrator and the perpetrator might go rob someone else. The knife dropped at the scene was a fishing knife that would have gone thru my back and come out the front, even if I were wearing my bulletproof (Second Chance) vest.

What!

What

I believe he was trying to point out your statement is incomprehensible!

blink, blink, wtf??

dee - here it is:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

No how does that jive with your post.

My bullets will never be gone, as long as I can reload my own brass.

How do you think people killed people before guns (and bullets) were invented ?

That's right Jay.

We need to return to Constitutional Government. We currently are under a heavy communist style control in many areas. Anyone who doubts that just needs to read the 10 steps to a perfect communist dictatorship as laied out in the Communist Manifesto.

Do you people know that 30 states have introduced or passed bills to claim 10th amendment soveriegnty and not be ruled over by a tyrannical federal government?

Didn't think so. The media is not going to be telling the people about that. The media will give you cooking recipies and stories about how to change a flat tire though.

Great comment Jay. The problem with our country is that people don't know what the Constitution says nor do they care. They are uneducated idiots that were not taught the Constitution in school, because public school doesn't teach it anymore. They have no idea what the heritage of our gun rights mean and they spout off these ridiculous "statistics" and they are too lazy to dig a little and find the real statistics. They have no idea that Communism is on our doorstep and the only thing that will keep us from that is the true patriots that are brave and willing to defend this once great country.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the innocent victims of this terrible crime. Had there been an armed patriot nearby, this man would not have succeeded to harm so many people.

There is a difference between uneducated people and idiots. They are not one and the same. There's a cure for uneducated people. Being and idiot is terminal.

I remember 7th grade American history class, 10th grade American History class and 12 grade American Government class. We were taught and tested on the Declartion of Independance and the US Constitution. It was discussed at length and your grade suffered if you did not learn it. I graduate High School in 1984. A mere 25 years ago. My daughter graduated in 2002 and she tells me those subjects were barely covered in her classes and she doesn't remember being tested on anything but the Preamble to Constitution. Heck, I learned the Preamble from School House Rock in the 1st grade. I wonder whose fault it is that our public schools aren't teaching these things and why our children are apparently being "dumbed down"?

Jay-768234 got to be careful, especially after Congress passed H.R. 1955 and S.1959, they might think your quote is justification to declare you a "Homegrown Domestic Terrorist". I am not kidding.

Rayne-799781 think about it. No one Pledges of Allegiance to the US anymore, so you think that they would learn (teach) about the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, Amendments. How about this, highest paid Teachers Internationally, lowest results Internationally. See movie, Idiocracy. LOL.

I remember back when Liberal democrats where good decent hard working americans that just disagreed on a few social programs with the conservatives. What happened to their Party? I Watched that Movie Gran Turismo the other day and I cant help but thinking that Guy played by Eastwood was what democrats used to be. Now Republicans are like the old Democrats and Democrats have become elitists and liberal crusaders.

I think they lose the ability to read after being elected. We give hundreds of thousands of dollars for each of them so they can hire aides to do their reading for them.

They would probably lie about it.

Wait.... What??

This is the old argument that people always have...

Our founding fathers have established the 2nd amandement so we can protect ourselves against tyrants ... and the argument just keeps going.

Let's see what it actually states:

'A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.' So where do you draw the line exactly. I agree with people owning guns. But you got to draw the line somewhere. Why Should I be allowed to buy an AK-47 at a gun shop? If somebody walks into my house I can protect my self fine with a handgun can't I? If I can buy an AK why can't I buy a rocket launcher? Or maybe a nuke? I know this is extreme but imagine I have some type of rocket that I bought. It is for protecting my self so technically I should be able to buy it right? No. You got to draw the line and I think all of these posts here missed this point. News media should not focuse on banning guns but not allowing ordinary citizens to buy weapons for mass murder.

snupa "Arms" means guns not artillery, which is what a rocket is. As to owning an AK 47 it is no different than owning a semi automatic hunting rifle, with the exception it can take magazines that hold more rounds.

Fully automatic weapons for civillian use have not been available to civilians for well over 30 years. I am surprised how uninformed people are about these matters given the controversy that follows them.

snupa, obviously you don't understand the desire to disarm the United States and how the government will attempt to go about it. They will start with a gun that most liberals scream is a terrible weapon and normal citizens have no use for it. Then when they accomplish that, there will be a reason that the handgun must be bad for some reason, then there must be something wrong with a hunting rifle........ Do you get it yet? They have to start somewhere and when they accomplish a little, they don't stop pushing. Study, read and educate yourself on this issue. It is critical for the future of our country that people know what they are talking about, because we are in a dangerous situation.

Griphen,

Your statemrnt on fully automatic weapons should have read as,"Brand new fully automatic weapons for civillian use have not been available to civilians for well over 30 years. I am surprised how uninformed people are about these matters given the controversy that follows them."

Depending on what state you live in you can call any ClassIII dealer and buy a fully automatic weapon. As long as:

1) If Class III weapons are legal in your city, state

2) You can pass the BATF background check. It is very extensive and takes about 6 weeks.

3) You pay the $200.00 tax to the BATF for the "stamp" for your registration

4) You can afford the weapon. They are very expensive. A M16 will run around $12,000.00, A M14 around $13,000.00, An AK-47 around $9,000.00 and a three select Mini-14 is around $8,000.00. Now if you want something a little cheaper an Uzi will run you about $5,000.00.

I am surprised at YOUR lack of knowledge of gun prices...8-12K!! Even the US Gov doesnt pay ridiculous prices like these (you can google this info). An AK 47 or similar knockoff typically costs 30-60 bucks to make..which is why they have flooded the world market and eliminated the market for the (far superior) AK 91 (google that too my friend). If a Colt or other M-16 knock off can be sold for as little as $800 (last time I checked) for a semi auto, why in gods name would it cost so much for a fully auto version?? It's a fairly simple retool you know. I was in St Maarten not too many yrs ago, was with my former Ranger buddy in a gun shop in Marigot..the owner thought we had an ex-im license and offered us a FULLY auto MP 5 SD (thats the assault model with the combo flash supressor) for 2500 USD!! Yes, thats new, with warranty.

Hope your not a purchasing officer anywhere...

I'm a retired Army Major, BTW.

Would you be against a law that limits the number of guns a person can own? (Only need 1 gun to defend yourself). How about a law that gun owner has to pass a safety test or attend an anger management class?

Yes I would be against a number of guns a person can own. Some of the quietest, calmest people I know carry legally. In Texas there is a law about youngster going through a hunters safety class before getting a hunting license.

for DUBLOC sorry man but JEGOSETT is right about the prices ,semi-auto ak's are going for $700.00 to $1200.00 anything in the AR platform is going $1000.00 plus and full auto is out of reach for most people even if you can pass the background checkIf you want to check prices go to www.gunsamerica.com I've been a gunsmith and FFL holder for 25 years

Full Autos are few and far between. They are expensive and around the prices I listed. To convert a semi automatic to full auto is illegal. I would not want to give up 10 years of my life and the ability to own a gun ever again to illegally convert a weapon.

The reason the military gets theirs cheaper is because they go with the lowest bidder for their contracts. And they buy in bulk. For the life of me I can't figure out what the Navy and Marine corps purchaser was smoking when he granted the contract for the M16-A1 over the M14.

We do have something in common though. When I purchased my M16 I was told it must have been issued to an Army officer. It was never fired and only dropped once.

Jegossett - For the life of me I can't figure out what the Navy and Marine corps purchaser was smoking when he granted the contract for the M16-A1 over the M14.

Wasn't the US Navy, US Marine Corps, nor US Army. Was the US Air Force.

And please do not say, "modelled after the Stoner Weapons System". Not even close, except for the bolt locking lugs.

AMEN !

infowars dot com

I absolutely support the right of our citizenry to bear arms, including hand guns. But some of the faaaaar right wing poop being laid here is getting ridiculous.

"The bottom line is that American liberal culture, which has not only ruined itself but other country's cultures as well, is TO BLAME for a large portion of violent crimes committed." Really Joseph? I guess with such a tiny brain you've always got to view the world with absolute binary simplicity. OK, let's think of an unamerican, non-liberal example you probably get a woodie thinking about - Nazi Germany. That's about as unliberal of a culture as it gets. They were certainly a great model of nonviolence weren't they? But I guess you are right about one thing - that was another country's culture ruined by "that american liberal culture".

“Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.” - L. Neil Smith

“Gun control? It’s the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. I’m a bad guy; I’m always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull the trigger with a lock on, and I’ll pull the trigger. We’ll see who wins.” - Sammy “The Bull” Gravano, whose testimony convicted John Gotti

“Gun control has not worked in D.C. The only people who have guns are criminals. We have the strictest gun laws in the nation and one of the highest murder rates. It’s quicker to pull your Smith and Wesson than to dial 911 if you’re being robbed.” - Lieutenant Lowell Duckett, President Black Police Caucus, Special Assistant to Washington, D.C. Police Chief

“I am convinced that we can do to guns what we’ve done to drugs: create a multi-billion dollar underground market over which we have absolutely no control.” - George L. Roman

“They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?” - Paul Harvey, 1994

“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” - Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

“Gun registration is a gateway drug.” - Mark Gilmore

“Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority. Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew’s possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation. Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions will be punished with imprisonment and a fine.” - Nazi Law (Regulations Against Jews’ Possession of Weapons), 1938

“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.” - Mahatma Gandhi, in Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446

“He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” - Luke 22:36 (King James Version)

“Suppose the Second amendment said “A well-educated electorate being necessary for self-governance in a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed.” Is there anyone who would suggest that means only registered voters have a right to read?” - Robert Levy, Georgetown University Professor

“[We] should not blame a gun itself for any crime or any acts of violence, any more than we can blame a pen for misspelling a word.” - Senator Wallace F. Bennett (R-UT), Congressional Record, 5/16/68

“It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine (1737-1809), American Revolutionary, US Founding Father and Author

“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

Bill, at least in the good old west, most folks were armed and could shoot back at some whacko or thug.