Very Sad. Anyone father or mother reading this whoever you are, whatever background, whatever issue surrounding money or no money - this is a cowardly class act by Mr. Lupoe taking his kids life from this world. Please think about how beautiful your kids are - stand strong with support from God or whoever/whatever higher power you believe in and to be simple and to the point a coward is far from what you are as a parent.

This message is to GOZO and others who respond in this way: America does not need more stereotypical and hateful comments like these. All it does it divides this country more and as it is, it is divided enough.

12.00 an hour is not going to cut it anymore to be competitive. For the masses to be employed now that the borders are all but open to much of the world in the usa you need to compete with 2 to $3.00 wages which are alive and well in countries less than a 3 hour flight from the usa.

GOZO - what the hell does President Obama have to do with the death of this family. This economic mess was created well before he took office. GOZO, you are an _____________— - I'll leave it blank so people can fill in their own word(s).

I don't know what state you live in, but the only commodity that's come down in price is GAS; everything else remains the same! When the gas prices when up, our grocery, property taxes, utility bills went up to, and you can BELIEVE these items have not come back down; infact, our Electric and Gas Companys are going up on our rates, as if we got a pay increase!

IT SEEMS ANYONE WHOM HAVE CONTROL OVER OUR WALLETS, ARE JUST TAKING WHAT WE DON'T HAVE, AND THERE ISN'T A THING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT!

I feel for that family, he did what he did because they did not want to be a burden on anyone else, and our Society should not have placed them in this position.

Food for thought, when you have a family of FIVE, both parents are working, you don't have TIME to interact with the community; you're too busy getting ready for the next day; and week-ends, all you're doing is playing CATCH-UP and getting ready for the next work week!

Family of 7, can you imagine just the LAUNDRY?

That Administrator, who said those horrible words to him, I hope the hell he or she looses her job; I would love to be a fly on the wall to see how they RESPOND to a NO INCOME situation, and all types of expenses, PENDING ........

In my dad's day, during the depression, they had a saying, "Three squares and respect." It was slang for becoming a bank robber. As long as you weren't caught, you had money for a roof for yourself and kids, and respect in the neighborhood. If you were, you had respect in prison and the neighborhood, meals and a roof, and your kids got fed.

We're going to see those days come back. This depression is going to last.

I'm sure when he heard the news, it made him think very hard about whether to continue to pursue his mission. You don't want to keep asking for wages when you consider how lucky you are to still be employed. We all are one step away from being homeless. Life today could be very different tomorrow.

I like how the people in the community are blaming the economy for the death of this family. They are angry because the economic situation pushed him to kill his family and himself.

No, he had free will. He did not have to murder his innocent children or his wife, or himself. Times are bleak and it seems that there is no end in sight, but murder is not the answer. Maybe he was battling depression, or another mental illness. But the economy itself is not responsible. How you react to the economy is up to you.

Sure, so next thing will be that Bush is directly responsible for the death of this family.

If you can't afford daycare, then why are you having children? He had children he could not afford, a house he could not afford, and a job that was not recession proof. Sounds like a fool to me. Maybe if he had had a few thousand dollars in the bank before he bought his house and had a bunch of kids, maybe loosing his job would not have been such a hardship. Any way you look at it, he was the cause of the problem, not a victim of it.

Regardless of how you feel about the man, I feel very sad that his children had to die. I cannot find any excuse for killing your own children. Maybe he was a bit overextended but this has been a problem with many Americans. I do feel people need to make wiser choices but I cannot understand what this man chose to do.

You know what, when the illegal aliens start paying for all the free child care,free medical care and the free housing they are gettting,then they can say something!!! Kaiser Permnente (sp) need to to be sued by the relatives!! To the idiot's comment 2.1,he was the cause of the problem!!?? No, a greedy govt who would rather support worthless,freeloading foreinors who are basically stealing from american citizens are the cause

I kinda understand a bit of the problem. To qualify because you cant seem to make and end meet, such as day care, there are people who need it, want to work, but for some reson fall just a few bucks over that line of help. Did lying about his pay, warrant being fired...I think that was more of a issue with the daycare, or the finacial advisor. It obviously wasn't the job supplying the care. But for him to kill his entire family, as well himself is rediculous. To blame this on the economy, and say the economy is killing people isn't much better. Times are ruff, we all know it. We all see it around us every day read or watch it on the news and so on. This person was in the pity jar before he was fired, and more than anything it was the job that was the trigger. Could have been anything, a very sick child, car took a dump, any thing. Ya the person who suggested he "blow his brains out" should be fired, however, this is all a matter "if" he said it, and "if" he did, what led up to him saying it. Just because the person who killed his family "said" it happend, doesn't mean it did. Out side of the ramblings he said or sent out whatever, sounds like the last marble hit the floor and rolled off somewhere. Who knows with that if the guy truly actually said it, or not.

You will all have your turn......when you do....what will you do?

GOZO - turn at what?????

Boy I wish everyone could live in the perfect choreographed world of Tony Haynes.

To people like Mr Hayes above

Try thinking before you post something as hateful and stupid like the comment above. How do you know they didn't have savings or purchased a house they couldn't afford? There is no mention of where he worked before getting a job at Kaiser. So how do you know he wasn't working a job before then that qualified for all of what you said he was being so irresponsible about? Stop and think because 50,000.00 in the bank isn't all that much if you lose a good job and have to settle. You can burn through that in less than 2 years even with a lesser paying job to help offset expenses.

I don't expect you to grow a heart but don't assume you know the full story either. It comes of as mindless as that Schlesinger idiot that said this isn't all that common. Sorry but stories like this with the economy in the trash are becoming a lot more common.

Mr. Hayes...

You are an idiot and I think your comments are better reserved for your bigot friends. As for Mr. Lupoe, "Tony" as we like to call him, was a great family man. All he spoke of was his family and his wife.

Yes, I personally know this family and I was shocked to hear about this, as did many of us that knew him.

Tony and his wife both worked for Kaiser. She was a radiologist and he did both radiology and was an ultrasound technician. Yes, that's right, both in supposedly "recession proof" industry, the medical field. Each of them made a good salary there. They did not mean to live beyond their means.... they had "TWO" sets of twins! Its like planning a family of three and ending up with five.... You don't plan to have twins, it just happens.

Shame on Kaiser Permnante for letting the both of these two wonderful people go! Can you imagine working at the same place as your significant other and raising a family, and to be told by your employer that you are both out of a job? At least ease the burden by letting one go and giving them a fore warning that they still have to cut back on more employees in the next month, or even week. You can't just fire two heads of a household at once!

I'm not justifying anything here because I know what he did was unimaginable and unforgivable, but I cannot sit here and read stupid insensitive people make off the cuffs comments about someone I knew to be a very good man.

What the article does not mention is that these people not only committed fraud by filing false statements, but they also forged signatures of health officials to verify that fraud. They should not have been surprised that they were fired. It is a tragedy, not doubt, and as usual, the children suffer the most. But this was a very cowardly act by someone who could not face the music for his crimes, spent more than he had, and worst of all, violated his promise to his wife and family that he would love, honor and protect them. Had they lived, they would have been fortunate not to be prosecuted by the law and according to an interview I saw, the hospital was not going to press charges. Yes, you can blame the economy, but it is so typical of this generation to blame everyone else for their problems instead of trying to solve them from within. They were in debt up to their eyeballs. Many people are. But does that mean that they could commit a crime and be justified?

Where is your proof of fraud? Unless the company ran the daycare center how did they know they reported a lower income? Is it possible it was just the excuse given for layoffs?

It sounds like more than children paid the price.

Optymist, I suspected there would be more to the story. Someone who is so bent that he will murder his children, is not simply someone who is having a rough time making ends meet and can't face it. Thank you for giving some extra insight.

Wow!!!

That was harsh!

Harsh, yes. But I agree. He took the easy way out. He is a coward. Might have felt for him had he just killed himself. He took his whole family. Shallow, coward of a man.

Good for you. Call it as you see it. Big whiney babies can't handle the truth, and the truth is that he was a coward and a looser.

Tough as it may be RayAnn is right. If these poor folk had practiced birth control they may not have found theirselves in the financial mess they were in. We might as well get ready because times are hard and will get much harder no matter what our Great Obama Hope does.

How callous! Remind me to think the same when your turn comes.

Once more the Republicans cry of "we are not our brother's keepers" rings true to the hate filled attitude which got us into this pickle.

And if a duck had a square butt it would poop bricks.

Typical rich bitch.

I kind of agree. What happened was a tragedy. However, the greater tragedy is when there are people using an excuse for this man to take his family with him. There is never an excuse to kill somebody else, never. Yes, there's hard economic times and that can cause traumatic stress.

Let's keep in mind that there are many, many financial support groups out there that this man could have checked into. There are many other alternatives. There are ways of consolidating bills, and even organizations out there willing to help deal with creditors. His overdue mortage payment could have been taken care of. All he had to do and others like him is to do their research. There is nobody else to blame.

Kaiser is NOT the entity to blame. I believe his immediate bosses are to blame, however. If what they told him is authenticated, then they are cruel. However, we do not know if they actually said this. It was only his words, so let's not just run with what he said and claim that it's what really happened.

So, in a sense, yes, his immediate bosses are partly to blame if what they said really happened. Will we find out what really happened? Probably not, but I do know we must do this one thing: pray for his friend and other family members for they are the ones who are suffering the most.

Rayann, I totally agree. That is harsh, however he did take the easy way out. There are always options and suicide or 'familicide' ISN'T one of them. It has nothing to do with being rich or poor, but making the most of what you do have and being thankful for it. Some people have abused what they have, tried to get more, or have just been careless. And everyone, and I mean EVERYONE has been careless at some point in their life and we reap the consequences of our actions. But we should deal with them, not commit awful acts of violence that do nothing but hurt others.

I'm an old great-gran who normally feels more sympathy than is warranted.  But in this case, my sympathy is all for the children. I was a single mom of three, without child support, for 9 years.  I understand over-extended.  I understand up-against-it.  But it seems like these days, many young people don't know how to face trouble and work through it.  They don't understand that success and happiness is often finest when it takes work and misery to find it.  Times being tough, he (they) lied to get cheaper child care, didn't pay taxes, bought things they couldn't afford.  Losing their jobs could have meant building a really MORE satisfactory life, if they'd accepted that having a little less (and being a little more honest) wasn't the worst thing imaginable in the world.  Sadly, this man evidently thought nothing was more important in life, than taking the easiest roads ... lies, deceit, murder, suicide.  It's all just a way of not troubling to work when things get tough.

Granny, I can respect your posting a lot more than some of these others on here. Indeed, ultimate responsibility for this senseless act rests with that Father; but for those who cannot find compassion- as you did - in their hearts for these children, they cannot even lay claim to being human. You have my respect.

In every major city, there are food pantries, soup lines, and local charities available for a variety of needs. This man chose to ignore these options. This newspaper writer chose to paint a 'pity me' scene that does not tell the whole story. Our country is losing it's common sense and pride of personal achievement.

You are correct.

Boy I spoke too soon. Wish we all could live in the perfect choreographed world portrayed in this section. No compassion, no heart and cruel...shame on all of you.

Pfft....

To RayAnn,

Boy you are the perfect one? You never lie, always doing the right thing, Respect the system, do by the rules.... Oh Yeah, you are perfect.

You just need to smell your own S----

Thanks for your Empathy, in other words, he really did the government a great favor by taking he and his family lives, so they would not be a further burden on the system, by having the state government taking care of his fatherless family!

Wall Street ripped off jobs, pensions, investors, and the American Tax Payer's by the TRILLIONS, and here you are making stink out of a few hundred, against someone who really need the extra $. With FIVE children he should have gotten a better break!

I agree.............................my sympathy goes to the children.

RayAnn........................Unlike the bleeding heart liberals in here who would pay for people to continue to defraud us, I agree with you. They sit here trying to fault large corps. when the blame lies ENTIRELY on this man...................no one else. You're right too. Being a male does not make you a man.

That is indeed one way to look at it. I want to throw another scenario on you and see how this fits. Not everyone can take being economically challenged. Having financial problems weighs heavy on the mind creating stress and leaving you feeling like a loser. You continue trying to be strong and you continue fighting hoping sooner or later things will get better. As later gets here, things are getting worse and worse, and you are no longer thinking rationally because you are too desperate. He could have simply killed himself, and Agencies would have helped his family. I bet he thought he was doing them all a favor, but it all goes to show how hard it is to think clearly when you are under the gun. This is sad beyond words.

Ditto! She's heartless and suffers from a sickness of the Soul.

She is probably a pius christian who believe in jesus, always votes Republican.

Where's your proof of this? The last thing we all need right now is paranoia and stereotyping.

You bleeding heart liberals always manage to find some excuse for a criminal. He f***ing murdered his kids! No excuse. He did it to himself, trying to cheat his employer and taxpayers. You scummy dems are no better.

Strange, and you have no compassion for THOSE children. I'll bet you'll be up bright and early to attend church too, huh?

Now for my next few mindless drones without hearts

1. Where did he work before working for Kaiser or did Kaiser like other companies make him accept a pay cut to keep his job?

2. Where did it say he is a Dem I mean after all Steele just became RNC Chairmen?

3. If someone gets so depressed they would consider something like this what makes you an expert on what they where going through? Have you been in there shoes or do you just like to be judgemental (key word mental since it's obvious they needed help)?

They were both fired for perpetrating a crime. Is that okay? If I am in debt and have lost my job, is what he did okay? If I am in debt can I bilk the taxpayers for money so that I can live better?

Sympathy belongs with the innocent children.....................nowhere else.

As a generally both gentle and generous great gran, who is neither pious nor bleeding heart, I just want to say ... I've lied more than I like to remember, but have never lied on something I've signed and have certainly never forged anything. I've lost jobs, raised three children alone, had cancer at 23, had a baby die shortly after birth, and could fill several more paragraphs with things I hope most people don't have to deal with in their lifetimes. Nor do I think I've accomplished anything special. I see no validity in the pointed comments toward RayAnne and others. To hold this man responsible for his own crimes is not piety. It is not heartless. It is neither Conservative nor bleeding-heart. It is simply justice. If the man hadn't taken his own life, he'd have hopefully spent the rest of his life in jail, and almost everyone here would have been justifiably angry at him. But because he killed himself over something that he got himself into, during a time that so many are worried about their own economic crises due to NO crime of their own, means that people are crying out as if outside influences are to blame. No. And what if they were? The man had not found strength within himself to live within his means, to use birth control, to pay taxes. Every time we fail to rise above something, it makes us doubtful we can rise above the next hurdle. He was on a downhill course, and it had nothing to do with the economic crisis.

We need to be careful not to make sudden decisions and scream accusations at this time. It is much like the frantic fear that 9/11 created in so many. It was that fear which made so many Americans vulnerable to the notion that we should invade Iraq. Let's not build too much anger toward Christian/non-Christian, rich/poor, Republican/ Democrat. We are AMERICANS. We have learned to work together to try to build the strongest, most generous and hard working country in the world. Let's not get side-tracked by calling each other Repugs and bleeding hearts, let alone mindless drones with no heart. That kind of reaction only focusses attention on our differences. It will not serve to help us work together to find better solutions.

The word Kaiser reeks of heartless acts towards their employees rather it be Permanentee or Aluminum. I couldn't believe what the administrator told the man.

Remember a few years back when a Kaiser Aluminum locked out their employees and tried to dump the aging workforce? Does Hurwitz ring a bell?

That's what he wrote.............................would you believe that? I doubt it.

Yes and we clubbed our dinner too.

We have all sorts of tools given to us through the use of the gifts we were endowed with.

We show how little we have earned the right to live when we degrade, demean and destroy any life.

That is true. But I feel it also comes down living within your means. Get what you can afford plain and simple. Too many want to indulge in luxuries they cannot afford and that is when you get into trouble. I have many luxuries but I am also not overextending myself to afford them. My heart goes out to the family members whose life he took.

You got that right Paul. Until people figure out that they can survive without all of these extras it will not matter how many stimulus checks we receive. All they will do is prolong the inevitible.

You're right. This makes me ask this question: What are we going to do with our stimilous payment checks? Some people are going to spend it that will further bring downfalls in their lives. There have been those who suggested that we get those checks to further enhance our financial situation and/or help out other people which sounds like a good idea.

Pesonally, I thank God for these payouts and I want to use them to help others. I pledge some of my money to go to the two kids I sponsor. With the rest, I'll find ways of using it to help bring more study income.

There will be no way for him to escape those haunting last words. He was obviously having some strong issues of his own at the time he said this, he had no ideal the guy was going to take him literally. I'm not defending this guy, but the more lay offs means the l"ucky to have a job" works harder. An additional work load makes bears out of all of us. Not trying to defend this guy at all, I'm merely pointing out the domino effect of a bad economy. And guess what folks? It get's worse........YEAH are we all excited?

I think it's really unfair to blast unions. So they help their employees earn $20.00 an hour. That comes out to a little over $41,000 a year - assuming you work 40 hours a week and are paid for 52 weeks.

Since when is earning $41,000 a year so awful to expect? How many people in this country would want to only earn $41,000? In most parts of this country, that's not even enough to support a family without a second income - it's not impossible - but it would be tight.

Are you suggesting that American's should settle for what illegal aliens are willing to work for? It's because illegal aliens are willing to work for $8.00 an hour that they've managed to take over millions of jobs that might otherwise go to Americans, who are willing to work, but have to think about what it takes to sustain a household. Remember, illegal aliens typically live in large family groups. We have such a family living in my neighborhood. I'm guessing there's at least 8 - 10 people living in that 3 bedroom home. I'm also guessing it takes all the adults, working for slave labor wages, to maintain the payment on that home and support themselves.

Now, if we're talking about unions demanding $40.00 - $50.00 an hour, then maybe you'd have a solid argument. I see nothing wrong with a person expecting to earn $20.00 an hour for any job that's legal. Would you rather they resort to selling drugs?

There may be some outrageous demands by unions, especially the automotive industry unions, but that does not mean all unions are crooks. Remember, it was unions that brought many folks the right to expect fair working conditions and living wages many years ago. Think back to Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". Should we expect Americans to work under those sorts of conditions, because if it had not been for unions, who knows what conditions factory workers would be working under today? Probably the same conditions that third world workers work under for American corporations.

And by the way, we need factory workers. In fact, it's because of corporate greed not wanting to pay working wages - which unions demanded - that they took their factories offshore where they could pay slave wages to third world country citizens and have them work 12 - 16 hour days in horrible conditions so that the big, fat CEO's could line their pockets with the money that otherwise would have gone to their American workers. We need manufacturing to come back to this country. It didn't help America to have factories taken away - it's hurt us immeasurably. Not everyone can go to college in this country, nor should everyone be expected to do so. For a healthy economic society to flourish, we need skilled workers in addition to "eggheads".

By the way, I'm one of those "eggheads" and I've never worked for a union.

hey, J.Hicks......if you have a family of what you think might be 'illigals' living a few doors down from you, why don't you call ICE/INS?

J Hicks, I have never worked for a union either, but I have been around plenty of people who have. And the earnings per hour aren't the worst part of the unions, by any means. My dad (way back in the 50's thru the 80's) worked for Kaiser Aluminum. Union. He had to find places to sleep each night, because once he'd done two hours of work, he needed to stop or all the other shifts would be ticked off because they'd have to work as hard as him.

I applied for a job that my previous employer talked me out of taking, because he'd worked there and knew of its union. It was easy to talk me out of it. He just mentioned that if I finished my job, I had to just sit at my desk and not help anyone else. If I helped others to do their work, it would cut into their own possibility of having overtime. How is this good for a business? How is this good for the GNP?

My husband worked for 25 years for a union. The greatest thing about it, was how totally impossible it was to get rid of completely worthless workers, if you didn't have the guts to get rid of them in the trial period. Oh, and that you never had to do your best because there was no reward (neither gratitude nor higher pay).

If you've never worked for a union, you've never seen the real problems. Oregon's school unions were at one time working toward getting higher pay for teachers who did well. I'm not sure if that worked out, but it was a step up. It isn't something I've heard of in ANY other union.

That's precisely why I retired back to my home in the hills of Missouri last year from the Army James. We had an ice storm this week; neighbors banded together, called one another, asked if they needed anything. Us 'younger' ones took homemade stew and bread to the older ones, along with their mail, made sure they had heat and electricity. That's why I came back here, to take my place among my people. Most Americans would be bored out of their wits here - no constant noise and chatter, diversion, nothing always hyped up. Our idea of having a good time is getting together, having a glass of wine and watching a movie by a roaring fire in the fireplace. And we love it.

We also learned a long time ago not to live beyond our means and to stick something back for a rainy day, stay out of debt. These values are long since dead in America. Once the materialism that a lot of folks associate their very identities with is gone, what do they have to fall back on? At that point, life to them is not worth living.

I'm saying a special prayer and lighting a candle tonight for this family.

I stayed in Cabool for a short time and it was great. I stay with a family who had a house in the woods and enjoyed waking up to the birds instead of cars. Yes this man took the easy way out but did he have to take his family. It is so sad. This package that is going through the congress will help us like the congress and other want us to believe as it is written. I have read more than 2000 pages of what is in this package and there is no help for the people. Yea there is a tax cut but not enough to make a difference. We would see about $10.00 a paycheck and that is nothing. I see allot of things that could wait and allot of loop holes. Why in the he!! do they need to remodel an agency's office space, pork and that is just one of many. The unions need to rethink their purpose, this is not your Grandpa country any more. In their time unions had a big place but in today's world they don't. As always just my opinion.

I too live in Missouri and had a houseful till recently. I enjoyed having them all around and didn't mind the mess or the lack of sleep. I would help again in a heartbeat.

Tomorrow we will load the tow chain and hopefully extract a 4 wheel drive that doesn't do hooty on ice.

We will also hopefully hear the good news that a friend of ours and his wife and child got out of their house before it burned. The roads are too iced for any emergency vehicle so no one knows the outcome yet.

People are the important thing, not things being more important than people.

Because of this, I vote for the bail out of America....we HAVE to make sure that no more people die than is natural. Not who meets the criteria of the right wing nuts.

Unless we have walked a mile in this mans shoes, who are we to say he was a coward, he took the easy way out, he lied to get what he wanted, they should have used birth control, etc... Are we all so perfect that we can sit back and make judgement on someone we do not even know and crucify him again. I'd hate to have most of you as a juror on any case because you have already determined the person is guilty before the trial begins.

You people in this section are very good folks.

Bless you for you kindness.

Very well said. We are too independent trying to live like we don't need anything but ourselves. If we would have maintained that community raises their own mentality, this families leader would not have felt so desperate. We don't even know our neighbors now a days, and we don't want to know them, we simply only want to worry about ourselves. Like our new Sec of State once said "It takes a village to raise a child" we need to get to grass roots. This tragedy is a gentle reminder of what happens when we try to be too independent.

We always joke about the Hispanics, but those are the very same people we need to take notes from. Sooner or later we all will be living like them if some concrete plan isn't divised.

I'm an RN and I hope she isn't either. I'd hate to think that someone with that attitude would be responsible for taking care of one of my aging and infirm parents.

Where did RayAnne say she was perfect? You leftists always twist things around to suit your purposes. You suffer from an insane superiority complex.

Hey aqua, and I still don't hear any compassion for the victims. I'll bet you're one of those Fascist Christian Revisionists.

I'm not justifying what the father did, but please remember that none of us knows the whole story behind what happened. Can any of us say that if we were driven to our own point of total desperation, they might not do the same thing? I know I read somewhere that the father said he didn't want his children to be orphans - that broke my heart. I know it's become something of a cliche, but until you've walked a mile in another person's shoes, show some compassion and cut back on the judgments.

You hit the nail on the head penquin,divide and conquer. That is exactly what is happening in the usa now. This econimic crash is all planned. This collateral tragedy is going to be a reality for some time to come. These times will bring out the best and worse of people. People may really need to start looking at other options on an international scale for residency and a new life. The new world order is coming about.

dang it, aqua surf, I agree with your assessment but am pretty much a liberal. Sorry. It just makes me laugh when people assume that anyone who disagrees with them is a "bleeding heart liberal". I agree with you. What does that do to us? A Republican in agreement with a Democrat. Is that painful? I disagree with those you are disagreeing with. Are you sure you're Republican?

And you're absolutely sick and repulsive. Totally without compassion. Those were seven human lives you fool.

I'll bet realiti.com is a white middle aged man, living in the south and wears a white hood at social events!

No doubt. He and Rayann ought to get together.

Once again, this is a very stereotypical comment. Can't find a better way to divide America than this comment.

Seems we have our own little communist cell here. Whine, boo hoo, you feel so superior. You're not so get over your sanctimonious selves.

aqua, go crawl back in your hole, please, and spare us the clap trap pablum ad naseum.

Wow - scary criminal. I wonder how many other criminals there are running around in this country trying to get affordable childcare?

Umm .. J. Hicks, imo he's a criminal because he murdered his children; he's also a felon because he forged documents, although Kaiser had chosen not to prosecute. He obviously didn't appreciate his good luck there. And he was quite obviously and definitely someone you should think of as "scarey", considering his reaction to being depressed was to kill seven people. I've met a few criminals in my lifetime, but luckily don't believe I've met any whose reaction to life kicking them too often is to murder those they love.

You think that's something, look at the one right above you.

Dang, Brad ... now that I've answered, I'M the "one right above". Oh well, I probably suit your purpose, even if I wasn't who you were originally meaning.

I agree. This was in no way a sacrifice, it was sick. Any humane person could never kill their own children like that.

ArmyWife, you you even work? Or do you sit on your arse all the time and pontificate?

You're a nasty a$$ piece of work, Melton. Typical democrat.

Actually, I'm a registered Republican. Always have been. Twenty year Army veteran as well. But I'm not a hypocrite and don't like those who are. I stay away from churches; too much church talk there. If you cannot find compassion in your heart for these dead children, aqua, you cannot in any way call yourself a human being. Unfortunately, our society is filled with people just like that. Case closed.

Brad, I'm a fellow Republican and I agree that the real victims are the children. The biggest reason was that they were killed as an easy exit from problems.

The biggest thing that's bothering me right now are stereotypical comments. Right now we need to drop the hate from all sides. It's dividing this country further than it already is.

Hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first.

That was not the "Ultimate Sacrifice". That phrase is for our troops who do that every day. This man was a coward.

Well said, Penguin and Optomyst! I'm a Democrat. I agree with everything you stated. At 63, my hubby and I both still work full time, and I also babysit for my granddaughters' infants while they work full time. The notion that anyone who doesn't have much sympathy for this man has to be an unemployed hypocrite is ridiculous. I've gone through more trials in my life by far than he went through, and never for a nano-second considered murdering ANYone, let alone a child, although there was a time or two that suicide sounded like a worthy option. A hypocrite is someone who professes to believe something that they don't actually live by, Brad. You have NO way of knowing which of us have gone through more than we hope anyone else has ever had to, so the unemployed hypocrite epithet is more than ridiculous. And again, I find it sadly interesting that I agree with aqua, who keeps using the word "Dems" as if that's a catchall for anyone he doesn't agree with here, even though the ones he's disagreeing with are Republicans. Name calling. So not effective. So not the point.

Well said, ckozi!

What?

I agree WHAT?

He is talking about the oil refineries. They produce tax revenue for the city.

My family is from that town it is very blue collar. I do not recall any professionals living there. I agree the city of Los Angeles treats that area like the red-headed step child of Los Angeles.

My grandmother has lived their all her life and sadly when I return to visit I can see that the place looks more and more neglected. The city puts very little money back into the community.

Liberal. Better than being a damn idiot.

Tony you need help real fast. How do you know he was a liberal. I really hope that your life doesn't hit a speed bump and you ned help.

I hope he hits a speed bump at 100mph and he has loose tie rods and bad tires!

And no seat belt on.

I know he was a liberal because he acted like one. If it walks and talks like a duck, its a duck. He over spent, blamed his problems on big business (his employer), and he took the easy way out. I would have my seat belt on because I am a responsible American, but even if I didn't, I have my own healthcare plan to cover any injuries and money in the bank until I can work again. I assure you that you would never have to spend your tax dollar to care for me.

Yeah, and if it walks and talk like an idiot, it must be one as well, cloaking itself a a responsible American.

Still being smug a$$wipes, aren't you boys. Yes boys, not men. That you'll never be.

Bend over, I got your man right here lil' boi

Aqua , Brad is right. Why don't you crawl back into your hole with all the other libs, take your meds and don't forget to go to church tomorrow and do your little chuch lady dance for all the other bible toteing liberal piss ants.

Aqua, Don't forget to thank Brad and myself for serving this country (I was US Air Force) and making sure you always had the freedom to post your statements!

Your welcome!

Barrett, Right on. I myself was Navy from 1981 to 2003 and if it taught me anything is to love this country (having been to many a $hithole country around the globe). As for aqua, he is probably one of the ultra liberal Surf rider foundation pricks who don't want you to have yours since he now has his. Their ilk has really helped f-ed up this state. We have freeways overcrowded and they wanted to build a new toll road and it was stopped by these selfish surfing idiots claiming it would screw up their favorite surf spot but in reality they didn't want the rest of the people to have easier access to"their beach". Selfish, self centered, all about me, pricks.

Curse you that writes under Tony Haynes! You will feel the wrath of God's hands for your insensitive comments and disposition, and once you do, you will cry mercy and think of this moment, for you will be cursed for your lack of remorse and forgiveness!

Well now I am not a lib. and my son is over seas right now..I totally agree you are acting like little boys, no one knows what everyone on this board is or claims unless they say it outright and to just assume someone is a lib based on statement or opinion is very childish..I don't care what the man was, I only care that his children suffered, oh and just so it's real clear here I am not on the other side either..I happen to be an independent thinker , ya know the ones who actually look at policies and not red or blue, poor or rich as you have pitted in party lines !

Brad-Liberal? Idiot? The two are NOT mutually exclusive!

Kat,

It would be a pretty sure thing he is a lib since he lives outside of the only repub bastion (Orange county) in the state of Ca. Heck even the republican nominee for president wouldn't even waste his time or money campaigning in this state because it is so far to the left it is about to fall over. Flat broke I might add.

Depends on the pressure and how much had already been piled on.

When I was a single mom going through chemo I heard alot how no more is piled on you than you can handle.

Trust me, if it weren't for the support of my friends and some family, I would have never made it.

Not everyone has support no matter what.

Mudfloper

I am so Glad you made it through..I understand exactly what you said!

And as I said the last time you snorted that line...

You're absolutely sick and repulsive. Totally without compassion. Those were seven human lives.

reality, why don't you help out Darwinism even more and blow YOUR brains out, that way the world might have more compasionate people in it!

Boo hoo hoo Barrett boy and Melton, take your slobbering somewhere else.

I'll bet you'll be the first one at church in the am, right aqua? You like all that death and destruction don't ya. War, famine... it's all part of your mythology. Can't wait until the big one starts can ya?

Brad, by looking at your posts further down from my last reply to you, it appears that you have some issues you really need to deal with. Maybe, you also need to drop your hate and as being in the military, you need to show respect like you're in the military.

So, as somebody who is tough yet respectful, were you actually in the military or are you using that as a crutch to show off?

I sent you a pvt regarding your question. You want a copy of my DD214, I'll be more than happy to fax you a copy. Otherwise, your point?

I agree totally. Let Brad support the moochers.